WEBVTT - Week In Tech: Would You Rather Live in a World with No Privacy or No Crime? 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:18.040 Guys from Kaleidoscope and iHeart Podcasts. This is tech stuff. 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:21.160 I'm mos Voloscian and I'm Cara Price. Today We've got 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:24.680 two big stories to break down for you. First, could 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:28.000 China unseat the US in more than just AI and 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:33.199 catch up in pharmaceuticals too? Then inmates phone calls with 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:36.600 loved ones are being used to train AI that then 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:38.080 monitors their behavior. 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:40.360 Then we'll tell you about a few other stories that 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:43.080 caught our eye this week, like how the UK police 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:46.919 want to cross reference CCTV footage with government databases, and 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:51.920 how the youngest female self made billionaire made all her money. Finally, 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:55.160 we discussed giant blueberries and why the company is selling 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:57.600 them is valued at a billion dollars. 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:01.400 Then on chat to me, there was concern, you know, 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:04.559 when two nuclear armed states are on the brink that way, 0:01:04.640 --> 0:01:08.080 that this could escalate and explode not just regionally but internationally. 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:12.240 All of that on the weekend Tech. It's Friday, December twelfth. 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:18.480 Hello Cara, Hi Ahs, do you follow art Basil. 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:22.720 I've never been Miami, I know, but I'm fascinated from Afar. 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:23.959 It's like the most hype. 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:27.760 It is the hype beast event of any time in 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:28.880 human history. 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:31.320 Last time it broke the internet was with the like 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:34.399 twenty million dollar banana. That was last year or two 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:34.839 years ago. 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:38.560 Probably was for you offensive. It was very offensive. So 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:40.399 let me ask you a question. Have you seen the 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:41.679 robot dogs I have? 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:43.640 Okay, robot dog? 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:45.240 Would you like to describe them a little bit? What 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:45.600 you saw? 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:48.320 Okay? So you remember the Boston Dynamics dogs. Yes, they 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:52.400 were these sort of uncannily dog like robots that kind 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:55.760 of pranced a little bit like like not like the accidents, 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:58.720 like what are those greyhounds like little greyhounds great guns? 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:05.280 So imagine robot baby prayhounds with very raalistic masks that 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:06.680 depict teche billionaires. 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:09.200 You described it perfectly. 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:10.359 Well together in a kind of pen. 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:14.960 That's exactly right. So it's an odd group of people 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:18.480 dogs in this pen. It was Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:22.640 Elon Musk, Pablo Picasso, Andy Warhol, and also a dog 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:25.919 of the artist people who created the dogs. The masks 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:27.799 that you were talking about are made by a special 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:30.480 effects artist, nam Landon Meyer, and they are these hyper 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:34.519 realistic faces. Is exactly face exactly like human faces. 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:36.880 So I saw the images, but I didn't really know 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:38.399 what is this all actually about. 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:42.520 So basically people wanted to make the point that it 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:44.760 used to be that we saw the world interpreted through 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:47.960 the eyes of artists, but now Mark Zuckerberg and Elon 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:51.359 in particular control a huge amount of how we see 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:55.160 the world. So he wanted to show that basically they 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:57.200 are the cultural conduits of our time. 0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:00.240 And what do they do apart from run around the pen? 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:03.120 So this is what I love. So they run around 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:05.200 the pen, but when you watch them, you can kind 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:07.880 of see them, what's the word that I'm looking for, 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:13.200 shitting out pictures that are in the style of the 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:16.520 artists that they are depicting or the tech bro So, 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:19.840 for example, the Andy Warhol robot dog will produce an 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:23.000 image that looks like a silk screen, and Picasso's is cubism, 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:26.720 Elons is black and white, and Zucks, to quote people 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:28.639 looks like the metaverse. 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:31.000 Wow, So are they are the dogs? Are they taking 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:33.480 photos of stuff they're seeing in the audience and then 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:35.320 turning them into works. 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:37.760 Of arts works of art? That's correct, but the actual 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:41.000 dogs themselves are selling for one hundred thousand dollars each. 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:44.400 Imagine just having someone in your house and they're being 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:46.680 a little Elon musk dog running. 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:48.800 Around taking photos of your guests and then pooping them 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:52.640 out crazy. I gather though, that the Bezos dog is 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:56.440 not for sale and doesn't poop. That's because he's King 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:57.000 of the Teche Brothers. 0:03:57.000 --> 0:03:58.960 That's because he's king of the tech Bros. I just 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:01.320 thought it was an interesting story to start with because 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:03.960 I think that People is making an interesting point. 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:07.240 It's a tech Burrows world. We just shouldn't it. 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:09.080 This is me high fiving them. 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:09.440 Yeah. 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:11.840 And also, I mean, look, so people really shot to 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:14.400 fame during the height of the NFT craz That's right. 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:17.040 He sold one a single NFT for I think sixty 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:19.839 nine millions dollars. 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:22.479 Which speaking of something that Bess could shot out that 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:23.240 amount of money. 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:25.520 And I believe some of the images that the dogs 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:29.279 poop out our NFTs that you can also buy. And People, 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:31.640 as you mentioned earlier, is also one of the dogs. 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:34.240 So I think he's poking fun at himself and his 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:38.320 ovre a little bit absolutely right here too. And I 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:41.960 mean you could say this is absolutely grotesque and. 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:43.400 People are paying money for it. 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:46.359 On the other hand, the guy is a master capturing 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:49.840 people's attention, getting the hype cycle, and forcing people to talk. 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:51.640 When was the last time you saw an article in 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:55.760 page six questioning how the tech oligarchs made us see 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:56.719 the world through their filter. 0:04:57.320 --> 0:04:58.600 He did it, He did it, He did it. 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:00.800 Good on you people. Yeah, I'd like to move on 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:05.440 now from big tech to big farm and specifically take 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:08.920 investments in and around pharmaceuticals. A while back, I read 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:11.719 this piece in the Ft which asked the question why 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:14.359 is AI struggling to discover new drugs? 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:17.400 Because why is AI struggling to find new drugs? 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:20.440 Well, that's a good rually tell me. I didn't really 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:23.280 realize this until I read the ftpiece. Obviously, I'm fully 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:25.839 aware of all the investment in AI drug discovery now, 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:28.320 but it turned out there was kind of a first 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:32.080 wave in the like twenty thirteen to twenty seventeen period 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:36.120 where hundreds of millions of dollars was invested, And the 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:38.880 kind of period when you would normally expect a drug 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:41.040 to come to market is about ten years. 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:44.120 So if my math is right, we should be seeing 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:46.440 like a whole bunch of new drugs come onto the 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:47.200 market now. 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:49.640 That's right, But we're not and according to the Ft, 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:53.200 there's a few reasons for that. One is money. Essentially, 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:56.520 these companies couldn't bring their product to market quick enough 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:59.840 to keep raising money to keep their companies alive, and 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:02.719 investors lost patients. I mean, to be fair to these companies, 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:05.640 drug discovery and the trials to actually bring drugs to 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:09.400 market are incredibly expensive, which is part of the reason 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:12.880 why these big farmer companies have such a lock on healthcare, 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:15.840 because they're the only people who can afford these cycles. 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:18.320 Right, right, right, So it was more of a funding issue. Ultimately, 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:18.960 I think it. 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:21.320 Was a funding issue and also a technology issue. I mean, 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:25.120 don't forget Back in the day, the AI tools were 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:27.840 nowhere near where they are today, So you basically have 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:31.560 to choose one problem and develop a specific AI to 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:34.240 tackle it, whereas now you have these broad AIS that 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:38.600 can tackle multiple problems simultaneously. So basically, according to the Ft, 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:41.599 the decade long clock kind of got reset in the 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:45.719 aftermath of the chetchipt moment two twenty twenty three, twenty 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:49.120 twenty four. So what happens next, Well, we'll have to 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:52.560 wait and see whether this great promise of AI to 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:55.279 deliver new drugs takes place in the next five to 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:58.560 seven years. One veteran chemist interviewed in the piece said 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:02.640 the drug discovery is quote probably the hardest thing mankind 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:06.559 tries to do. Another person said, who's actually a founder 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:09.359 of one of these new generation drug companies? Quote? I 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:11.760 used to say we were the industry with the highest 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:15.640 failure rate of anything but Space Explorer space. And then 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:18.680 she goes on to say space explorations started to work. 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:21.840 Wow to see, Yeah, that's very interesting. 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:24.880 I read another piece in the Ft, also discovery. I 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:27.280 love the Ft and I guess I love drugtor Sorry. 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:30.480 The question this piece asked is will the next blockbuster 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:31.640 drug come from China? 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:34.040 Well, that's really interesting. So there's almost like a parallel 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:37.000 arms race in pharma and AI with China. 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:39.760 And the INTERSETXT and you can kind of see American 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:43.600 farmer companies begin to make very substantial investments in China. 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:47.000 For example, Novo Nordics, the company who developed a zepig, 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:50.480 paid a Chinese company up to two billion dollars to 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:54.360 license a next gen weight loss drug. So yeah, it's 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:57.480 kind of it's that's kind of parallel thing where China 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:00.440 was the factory for US innovation for so long and 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:03.560 now are starting to really develop and refine and make 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:07.480 better products, or at least equally good products, faster and cheaper. 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:08.640 So how are they doing this? 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:11.760 Well, I mean, it's kind of that thing where the 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:15.040 government says this is a priority, and also we'll just 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:17.200 cut through all of the red tape required, will make 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:20.760 trials easier, will make recruiting for trials easier, will approve 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:23.280 the construction of new facilities in days rather than months 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:26.160 or years. They basically said, this is a government priority 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:28.640 to become a leader in pharmaceuticals, and therefore we will 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:32.960 remove absolutely every obstacle, whether it's financial, whether it's regulatory, 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:35.679 to bringing drugs to market fast. And looks like it's 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:36.280 signing to work. 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:38.000 So what does this mean for the US? 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:40.439 Exactly? Well, these Chinese drug makers are now developing drugs 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:43.959 two or three times faster than most other countries. They're 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:47.400 still a long long way off. Like the twenty largest 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:50.720 farmer companies in the world don't include a single Chinese one. 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:53.680 The top ten are very much dominated by the US. 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:58.439 But you know, it's another area where strategic competition is 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:01.960 starting to make itself known. And crucially, one in four 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:06.200 generic drugs consumed in the US, like tylan Nol has 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:09.160 ingredients that come from China to manufactured in China. So 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:12.520 you can see this real point of leverage brewing both 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:16.120 with access generic drugs, but also China can overtake the 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:19.439 US as the drug innovator record. It's kind of another 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:23.439 area where the US ability to create the most valuable 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:25.600 IP in the world is under threat. 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:27.760 So as I want to bring you a story that 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:31.920 really pissed me off, which is not something that I 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:32.600 share all the. 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:34.960 Time year that's time I heard you say something that yeah, sure, 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:35.360 well you. 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:38.400 Know, my therapist says, I'm not quick to express anger. 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:40.160 But this is this was actually a story I read 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:43.959 and I felt like viscerally angry about it. So it's 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:47.240 from the MIT Technology Review and it's about how private 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:51.000 prisons are now training AI on prisoner phone calls. 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:52.040 What does that mean? 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:54.720 You know, when you make a phone call from prison, 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:57.560 there are two companies that essentially allow you to do that. 0:09:57.440 --> 0:10:00.240 And they charge you like a lot regions. 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:01.439 So it's a huge amount of money. 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:03.439 That's right for the privilege or someone even say, the 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:05.600 human right of being on to talk to your family. 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:09.400 That's exactly right, do you know how big this business is? 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:13.320 I know there's a despicable number of people in cost 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:14.160 raids in the US. 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:17.280 The inmate calling system is a one point two billion 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:18.360 dollar business. 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:19.480 Just the calling system, that's correct. 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:23.480 The story focuses on a company called securest Technologies. They're 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:26.480 one of two companies that specialize in the prison phone system. 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:29.800 The thing that really caught my attention in this article 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:32.960 is that Securist has been investing in voice recognition products 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:36.880 since twenty nineteen and AI products since twenty twenty three, 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:42.280 which means they've been training their own lms on these 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:43.320 phone calls. 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:45.920 So they own the basically the whole batch of recordings 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:48.400 and can use it for whatever experiments they want to run. 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:51.160 I mean, the experiment that they apparently are running is 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:54.480 building large language models that are going to help law 0:10:54.559 --> 0:11:00.920 enforcement track and basically predict ifs are going to happen 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:02.800 on the basis of what people are talking about in 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:07.640 their prison phone calls. It's surveillance on a level like 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:11.800 you know, you think about panoptic power, and this is 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:17.320 like the panopticon having another reason to be a panopticon. Yeah, 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:20.760 so we know that llms are being piloted in certain markets, 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:24.280 but we don't know which markets. And actually, the securest 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:28.199 president Kevin Elder told the MIT Technology Review that securists 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:32.079 monitoring efforts have helped disrupt human trafficking and gang activities 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:35.480 organized from within prisons, among other crimes, and said its 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:39.240 tools are also used to identify prison staff who are 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:41.040 bringing in Contraband what. 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:44.960 Do prison advocates, I mean, there was a potcast. They 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:45.360 hate it. 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:48.599 They hate it. A woman named Bianca Tileck from the 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:51.600 organization Worth Rises, I think set it really the best, 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:54.600 which is she said, there's literally no other way you 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:57.280 can communicate with your family. Not only are you not 0:11:57.480 --> 0:11:59.920 compensating them for the use of their data, but you're 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:02.520 actually charging them to collect their data. 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:06.439 Yeah, I mean it does kind of stick in your 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:08.640 crawl a bit, doesn't it. 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:11.160 It sticks in my cry, you could say, yeah, I 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:13.640 mean what infuriates me is that if inmates want to 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:16.720 communicate with the outside world, they have to play within 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:18.400 this system. Like they don't have a choice of how 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:21.760 they're making phone calls, and so while they're informed that 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:25.080 their messages are being recorded, they aren't informed about how 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:26.720 this data is used at all. 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:31.679 Now, do you think the reason this story strikes us 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:36.640 both is because we are such sort of empathetic people, 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:41.559 or is it because in some sense it's a grotesquely 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:46.160 magnified pastiche of the experience of being a citizen in 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:47.240 the twenty first century. 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:51.360 I do think that yes, this is a magnified version 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:55.640 of a surveillance capitalist state that we all live in, 0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:58.760 that we experience on a daily basis giving away data 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:00.160 for free. 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:03.800 I guess the difference is that we technically theoretically can 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:06.400 use duc dot go instead of Google and not right. 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:09.280 We have tools that help us dog GPN. 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:11.839 We have a choice which most of us don't exercise. 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:14.720 Choice within our non choice exactly. 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:17.240 Whether this is like, you know, well, your choice is 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:18.640 not to communicate. I guess yeah. 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:24.120 And it's just I understand I suppose I understand the 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:28.719 need to stop human trafficking, for example, or I have 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:33.119 the understanding that it's important to stop you know, drug trafficking, 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:35.480 or you know, a legal contraband coming into a prison. 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:42.360 This just seems like the easiest, most crass way to 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:44.360 possibly surveil people. 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:46.800 I also think, you know, it's such an easy thing 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:49.920 to productize and say, like put these super predators in 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:53.200 prison listening on these on their calls, and then this 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:57.320 infallible technology AI tool will tell you who's the baddest 0:13:57.320 --> 0:13:59.160 of the bad And it's just like really, It's. 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:00.840 Also like, is this where we need to be applying 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:04.120 AI tools? Like that's I just feel like money? 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:05.040 What about rehabilitation? 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:09.880 Rehabilitation programs? Precisely so, while I don't think twice about 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:12.400 accepting cookies or giving away my data, I do at 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:15.760 least have the choice to care without completely cutting myself 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:16.840 off from the outside world. 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:18.720 Yeah, if I think you make a good point, which 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:23.160 is like you can support the goals of law enforcement, 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:25.320 like we don't want human trafficing all these things you've mentioned, 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:28.960 and still have questions about this pick particular technique. I 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:30.960 mean to me, the kind of framing question which we're 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:32.440 going to come back to after the break in the 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:36.920 story I'm going to tell you is philosophically, would you 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:40.360 rather live in a world with no privacy or in 0:14:40.360 --> 0:14:41.280 a world with no crime? 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:42.480 That's a good question. 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:45.400 We're going to come back to it, and we're also 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:49.120 going to talk about the world's youngest female self made 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:52.760 billionaire and why people are getting addicted to giant fruit 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:02.680 and we're back. Do you know the phrase one nation 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:03.600 on the CCTV. 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:05.560 I know the phrase one nation under God. 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:09.320 That's one nation on the CTV was another contemporary artist 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:11.480 who was the People of the. 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:14.760 Pre NFT era Banks Banks c Yes. 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:19.360 This phrase was graffited by banks outside London Post office 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:23.560 in two thousand and eight. According to conservative newspaper in Britain, 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:27.240 the Telegraph, the UK could be on a path now 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:32.520 to becoming one nation under AI enabled CCTV thanks to 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:34.720 a new proposal from the Labor government. 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:35.720 Say more about this. 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:38.520 So, according to Telegraph, which is not a fan of 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:40.720 the Labor government, less sweet and just put our cards 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:44.160 on the table. Yeah, Labor is proposing that police be 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:48.800 allowed to compare photos of crime suspects from CCTV doorbells 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:54.080 and dash cams against facial images on government databases, including 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:57.400 the passports of forty five million Britons. 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:01.800 What yeah, So why are they proposing this? 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:04.120 Well, it comes back to the story we were talking 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:07.320 about before the break, right, Like they're proposing this because 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:12.640 they say that having CCTV cameras everywhere in Britain which 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:16.320 are hooked into the mainframe of the passport photo database 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:20.280 will allow it to be possible to stop crime in 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:23.520 real time, to take sexual predators off the streets before 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:27.280 they offend again, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. But some are saying, 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:30.440 I think, frankly, including me, hold on a second, when 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:33.600 I wanted to get my passport, I didn't consent to 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:38.280 having my face be available for a live panoptic prison system. 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:40.800 Well, very similarly to what we were saying is that 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:43.680 when prisoners consent to make phone calls that are being recorded, 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:46.240 I can't imagine that they are thinking these recordings will 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:47.720 be used to train lllms. 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:50.600 And there's all these problems of bias in these facial 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:53.480 recognition systems, which we start talking about. What we've talked 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:55.560 about it to a blue in the face, but haven't 0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:58.080 really been addressed or properly addressed, which is, if you're 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:01.360 a person of color, you're much well ke's be misidentified. 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:04.720 But again there's this like technological logic where because it's 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:08.560 tech enabled, people believe it's true. And it brings me 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:12.280 back to that question about like, yes, in theory, like 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:15.399 I would like people who are dangerous criminals to be 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:18.840 very quickly taken off the streets for the event. But 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:22.399 do I want the police to have unfettered access to 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:26.320 the whole passport database? I mean, in a just society 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:31.680 where you have confidence in the government, a democratic government 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:37.680 whose values you share, maybe this is okay. Maybe, But 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:40.120 what happens when this falls into the wrong hands. 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:41.680 Right exactly exactly? 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:44.000 You know, there's just there's so many ways to turn 0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:47.000 this into a system for extreme evil. 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:50.479 I think, and we saw it happen with Wigers, with 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:53.119 the weaker minority in China, Like it can happen very easily. 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:55.480 It's not like it hasn't happened easily. There was an 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:59.880 entire system that the Chinese government had called ijop, which 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:04.840 is essentially to collect data from tons of sources that 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:07.800 are being used by average Chinese citizens. So it's it's 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:09.520 not crazy to imagine. 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:11.560 No, I mean, I think it's you know, the irony 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:13.920 of this whole story is ten years ago we were saying, 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:16.720 oh my god, China has built this surveillance stage and 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:19.600 official recognition of our life. I'm not awful. It's just 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:22.840 an ironic moment where our political systems are under so 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:26.399 much strain that we have this aspiration to things that 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:28.720 filled us with horror alto recently. 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:32.920 Yeah, so let's have a question for you. How many 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:34.480 female billionaires can you name? 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:41.119 Is Nancy pelosia billionaire? You know there's a fund you 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:44.120 can use to track Nancy Pelosi's trades and make them yourself. 0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:46.040 Really, Oh, I have never seen that on the train. 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:49.119 Okay, but but Nancy Pelosi did not. 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:53.560 Nancy is definitely not one I trolling. So this week 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:55.399 I was trying, like I was trying to think, like, 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:58.240 who's a female billionaire? Who's a female billionaire? And I 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:01.560 was thinking about it because the world has a new 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:04.479 billionaire and she just happens to be the youngest female 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:06.160 self made billionaire to date. 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:06.720 Wow. 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:09.960 And for the sake of our show, she works in technology. 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:11.159 Wow. I'd love to have her own who is? 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:12.680 She told me we should we should have her on. 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:15.119 Actually she's really interesting. So last week, you know, we 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:18.280 talked about polymarket, which is the online prediction market that 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:22.680 continues to kind of discuss me. But the woman who 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:25.919 is now a billionaire co founded poly Market's competitor, which, 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:27.960 as you know, is caw she that's. 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:30.119 Correct, which sounds like a breakfast here like used to 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:30.840 eat called kashi. 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:33.480 But I remember Cashi made me so ill. You would 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:37.760 eat Cashi. I love that cereal. So Calshi is similar 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:39.960 to poll Market in that people can make bets on 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:43.080 everything from you know, sports, to elections to the weather. 0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:47.879 But unlike poly Market, which was crypto based, Cawshi is 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:50.760 based in the US dollar and received approval from the 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:55.480 CFTC the Commodity's Futures Trading Commission in twenty twenty. Poly 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:58.840 Market received the approval in September twenty twenty five, but 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:01.560 only after being fine I had one point four million 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:04.200 dollars for operating in unregistered markets. 0:20:04.520 --> 0:20:11.000 You sounded like doctor Eva in Austin powers four million dollars. Interesting. 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:13.800 So cow She recently caught my eye because they announced 0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:16.600 a partnership with CNN. That's right where Cina is basically 0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:20.600 gonna broadcast caw she live predictions on things which are 0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:24.600