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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for

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Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan, and this is episode number four

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Speaker 1: ten in. Today in the show, I'm joined by Clay

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Speaker 1: Newcomb to discuss the murky future of hunting in America

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Speaker 1: and actionable ways to ensure that this lifestyle and pursuit

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Speaker 1: is around for many generations to come. All right, welcome

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Speaker 1: to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by

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Speaker 1: on X. Today in the show, I am joined by mediator, contributor,

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Speaker 1: bow Hunter, mule Rider, Coon, dog runner, and general outdoors

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Speaker 1: and extraordinaire Clay Newcomb, and we're here for a damn

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Speaker 1: good chat. We're talking today about the future are of

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Speaker 1: hunting and some very real risks to that future. You see,

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Speaker 1: there are people out there and organizations and forces that

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Speaker 1: would see, you know, they'd see our way of life

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Speaker 1: and our hunting pursuits relegated to the past, something that

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Speaker 1: used to happen but doesn't anymore. And there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of reasons for this. There's a lot of motivations. But

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Speaker 1: whether we like it or not, whether we want to

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Speaker 1: think about it or not, it's a reality. And the

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Speaker 1: thing is, if if we as a hunting community don't

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Speaker 1: stay abreast of this and we don't do something about

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Speaker 1: it when called upon, it's it's honestly not out of

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Speaker 1: the question that the hunting privilege we enjoy today might

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Speaker 1: not be around for our kids or our grandkids and

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Speaker 1: so on. So Clay and I today are going to

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Speaker 1: dive into some of these issues and some of these

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Speaker 1: topics related to because the ways that we can help

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Speaker 1: ensure the future of hunting they're not always clear cut.

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Speaker 1: It's not like there's just one clear, one size fits

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Speaker 1: all answers, not like, hey, if all hunters do X

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Speaker 1: and we all do the exact same way, it's all

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Speaker 1: gonna be just fine. It's it's a little bit more

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Speaker 1: complicated than that. And that's why this, this whole topic

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Speaker 1: is has been interesting. Really, it's been interesting for me personally,

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Speaker 1: have wrestled with a lot of questions on it, and

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Speaker 1: it's nice that in this case I was finally able

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Speaker 1: to lay some of those questions out there and bounce

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Speaker 1: them around with someone else who's been thinking about this too.

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Speaker 1: Things like you know, how can we band together and

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Speaker 1: support our fellow hunters, even if we do it in

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Speaker 1: different ways. You know, this whole we're all in the

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Speaker 1: same boat thing, But also how can we ensure that

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Speaker 1: no one's punching holes in that boat and sinking the

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Speaker 1: whole thing. We talk about ways to handle questions and

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Speaker 1: controversies around things, maybe like predator hunting that maybe aren't

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Speaker 1: things that we personally participated, but can still impact the

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Speaker 1: future of deer hunting. They like, And that's just one example. Uh,

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Speaker 1: what about stuff related to you know, the whole public

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Speaker 1: relations of hunting, the whole pr battle. Why is that important?

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Speaker 1: And the role that each one of us can play

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Speaker 1: on that front. So that's the plan. I won't belabor

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Speaker 1: it too much here on the front end, but this,

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Speaker 1: this honestly was one of the more engaging and interesting

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Speaker 1: conversations I've had in a while. I really enjoyed it,

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Speaker 1: and I think you will too. So with that, thanks

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Speaker 1: for listening, and let's get to the show all right

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Speaker 1: with me? Now on the line is Clay Newcomb. Clay,

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Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. Hey, Mark, great to be

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Speaker 1: here on the Wire to Hunt podcast for sure. Hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm glad to have you. It's uh, well, what I

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Speaker 1: guess since the last time you were on the show,

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Speaker 1: things have changed quite substantially for you because since then,

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Speaker 1: which I think was last spring sometime, uh, you've officially

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Speaker 1: joined the media team, so publicly welcome to the crew,

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Speaker 1: my friend. Yeah, thanks Mark. Yeah, you're right. Last time

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Speaker 1: I was on the podcast, I was. I was not

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Speaker 1: a Meat Eater team member. Now I am, and since

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Speaker 1: that time, you and I have gotten to know each

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Speaker 1: other better, and uh, yeah I was. I was hired

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Speaker 1: with me that you're back in October early October, so

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Speaker 1: you know, coming on I guess six months or so,

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Speaker 1: and it's been incredible so far. Yeah. So for people

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Speaker 1: that maybe don't know what what are you doing? What

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Speaker 1: do you do for us? Now? So? So, I'm a

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Speaker 1: content creator for meat Eater, which would be similar Mark,

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Speaker 1: really to what you do. I guess I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: your exact title, but uh, I don't know what my

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Speaker 1: title is either. Man, You're just Mark Kenyon. Um. So

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Speaker 1: what I do currently is I, uh, you'll see content

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Speaker 1: produced from me on a monthly basis, multiple times per month,

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Speaker 1: where I'm making videos of writing articles for meat Eater

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Speaker 1: number one, number two that This is no secret, but

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Speaker 1: we've kind of held it back because we've we've we

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Speaker 1: haven't launched it yet, but but I'm gonna be doing

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Speaker 1: a a podcast four Meat Eater that will become a

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Speaker 1: podcast in Meat Eater suite of podcast which you know,

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Speaker 1: Wired to Hunt is one of those podcasts that's in

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Speaker 1: the Meat Eater family. So at some point this spring

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Speaker 1: soon I will will be launching a totally new podcast,

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Speaker 1: which I'm very excited about. And we can talk about

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Speaker 1: that more later, Mark, But so I'm gonna be making

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Speaker 1: a podcast, making content and just contributing to the whole

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Speaker 1: Meat Eater mission. You know. Uh, I was able to

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Speaker 1: hunt with Steve and the guys last spring in Montana,

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Speaker 1: so you know there's some I'll be on some Meteor

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Speaker 1: episodes and uh and uh just just like all the

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Speaker 1: team members at different times were on the Meteor podcast,

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Speaker 1: but just in general doing whatever Metator needs and making

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Speaker 1: some great content, trying to educate people, trying to have fun.

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Speaker 1: Yeah we're doing uh so far, so good man. I've

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Speaker 1: I've enjoyed everything you've put out there, and it's it's

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Speaker 1: it's great to have you in the fold. And and

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Speaker 1: obviously a lot of exciting stuff coming down the line.

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Speaker 1: So um, I'm just glad to have you, Glad to

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Speaker 1: have you here, buddy, and uh and what what I

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Speaker 1: want to talk about today, I think is a big

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Speaker 1: part of the reason why you're such a great fit

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Speaker 1: for our team here, mediator, because you've done a better

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Speaker 1: job than than most I think in and kind of

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Speaker 1: I don't want to say preaching, because there's some maybe

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Speaker 1: there's a negative connotation if in a certain way there.

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Speaker 1: But but you've been you've been speaking the good word

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Speaker 1: on an important issue that I think sometimes we hear

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Speaker 1: in the white tail honey community can overlook It's it's

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Speaker 1: easy for even myself personally. I'm so deep into the

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Speaker 1: white tail thing. I eat, sleep, and breathe this thing.

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Speaker 1: Almost every day I'm thinking about it. It's easy to

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Speaker 1: get tunnel vision and to just think dear, dear, dear,

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Speaker 1: um and not to pay attention to things that go

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Speaker 1: outside of that. So I have to constantly remind myself,

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Speaker 1: kind of knock myself on the side of the head

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Speaker 1: and say, hey, make sure you're paying attention to this

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Speaker 1: thing that's going on on the West coast or this

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Speaker 1: thing that's happening with this critter or that fish or

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Speaker 1: this type of land, because because I do think all

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Speaker 1: of these things do come back and impact us as hunters,

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Speaker 1: regardless of what species you hunt. And so that's that's

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Speaker 1: what I want to get into here with you. And

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Speaker 1: you've you've popular I don't I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: coined this yourself, but I think you did this idea

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Speaker 1: of guarding the gate. Can you can you tell me

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Speaker 1: what that means? We we covered this a little bit

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Speaker 1: a year ago when you refer to the show, but

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Speaker 1: I want to really expand on it. What's this whole

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Speaker 1: guarding the gate thing? So I think I think we'll

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Speaker 1: take a step back from that phrase and we'll get

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Speaker 1: to it. And and I kind of want to set

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Speaker 1: the context for the question that we would all have.

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Speaker 1: That I would have is that why would a why

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Speaker 1: would a white tail hunter care about the broader issues

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Speaker 1: of North American hunting? And I think we've all got

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Speaker 1: to view because well, first of all, there are many

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Speaker 1: parts of the North American hunting model that are insignificant jeopardy.

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Speaker 1: And Mark, I grew up with white tail hunting being

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Speaker 1: my number one thing. I mean, like I was a

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Speaker 1: white only a white tail hunter for a long time,

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Speaker 1: and um and you just have this security and since

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Speaker 1: I mean there's just no there just does not seem

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Speaker 1: to be a a real and present threat to white

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Speaker 1: tail hunting for many, many many reasons. Um So, as

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Speaker 1: a white tail hunter, I entered into the bear world

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Speaker 1: at when I you know, about two thousand nine or

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Speaker 1: so and started getting on the Nash scene with the

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Speaker 1: bear world, and I was pretty shocked by what I

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Speaker 1: saw in that bear hunters were or bear hunting was

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Speaker 1: significantly undertacked by anti hunting groups, I mean like very

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Speaker 1: much so targeted on purpose by anti hunting groups. And

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Speaker 1: number two, I was surprised at the general sentiment in

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Speaker 1: different places of the hunting community even or in the

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Speaker 1: non hunting community about their ideology around bear hunting. So

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Speaker 1: these were these were these two worlds collided, and I

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Speaker 1: didn't see a connection in these two worlds until I

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Speaker 1: got deeper into it on the national scene, and I

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Speaker 1: realized that if we if you value any piece of

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Speaker 1: North American hunting, then every piece of North American hunting

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Speaker 1: needs to be important to you. And first of all,

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Speaker 1: like it's so significant that we understand that and it

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Speaker 1: sounds like I'm preaching to the choir, but I'm not,

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Speaker 1: because I'm talking to myself too. We live an incredible

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Speaker 1: life as hunters and modern times, Mark, I mean, even

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Speaker 1: you've been able to go out in your backyard in

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Speaker 1: Michigan and hunt deer and have opportunity, and I mean

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Speaker 1: no very few places in the world is is there

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Speaker 1: anything even comparable? And so we live here. This is

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Speaker 1: all we've known. I've grown up, this is my life.

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Speaker 1: But man, the world is a small place. And with

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Speaker 1: the changes that have happened with technology and social media

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Speaker 1: and uh, I mean, for lack of a better term,

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Speaker 1: and not to touch a political hot button, but globalization.

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Speaker 1: I mean, like the world is now this like really

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Speaker 1: small place, and so things that used to be not

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Speaker 1: seen by the world are now seen by the world.

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Speaker 1: Things that at one time would have only been um

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Speaker 1: influenced by like a small community of people, is now

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Speaker 1: being influenced by the ideologies and worldviews of people who

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Speaker 1: have nothing to do with what we do. And that

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Speaker 1: is a place we've never been before ever, And it's

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Speaker 1: put all kinds of stuff, not just hunting, but hunting

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Speaker 1: is one of these things that has come into the spotlight,

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Speaker 1: and people don't understand the context. They don't understand the science,

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Speaker 1: they don't understand the heritage, they don't understand the world

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Speaker 1: view of the people that do it, they don't understand

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Speaker 1: the motivations of the people that are doing these things.

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Speaker 1: And anti hunting groups have very strategically and very much

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Speaker 1: on purpose, they have marketed this to a broad group

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Speaker 1: of people. It's a very very easy sell for anti

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Speaker 1: hunting groups to say hunting is bad. I mean like,

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Speaker 1: it's a one step cell for someone who has no worldview,

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Speaker 1: uh that that that involves wildlife as a renewable resource

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Speaker 1: and habitat management and and why you know, managing these

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Speaker 1: populations so that they'll thrive. Like so it's like a

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Speaker 1: one step cell for that. And then it's like a

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Speaker 1: five step ten steps cell to bring people to a

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Speaker 1: place of zero understanding to an understanding where they go, wow,

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Speaker 1: actually these guys are doing something good. Well yeah, anti

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Speaker 1: hunting groups have picked up on that, and we've actually

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Speaker 1: become the cash cow in many ways of these nonprofit

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Speaker 1: anti hunting groups because they they're able to to sell this.

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Speaker 1: So this topic is so broad Mark, I'm having a

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Speaker 1: hard time narrowing it down. But but the idea of

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Speaker 1: guard the gate is that the whole idea is that

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Speaker 1: there are fringe and I'm gonna use that word, and

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Speaker 1: I'm change that word one day, but I'm currently not

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Speaker 1: offended by that word. Uh, there are fringe activities inside

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Speaker 1: of hunting, and by fringe, I mean less um less

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Speaker 1: people actually do it. More people do other things their

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Speaker 1: fringe activities inside of hunting that are intricate, intricate parts

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Speaker 1: of the North American model, like bear hunting, trapping, predator hunting,

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Speaker 1: using dogs, using bait, like all these things. They might

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Speaker 1: seem to someone that doesn't use those things. It's just, man,

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Speaker 1: we could just give that away like it's not gonna

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Speaker 1: hurt me if that stuff leaves, well, it actually does.

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Speaker 1: If you want this thing to continue beyond your and

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Speaker 1: I hate to even say this because it's so far

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Speaker 1: humans have such a hard time thinking long term, but

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Speaker 1: we we've absolutely got to We've absolutely got to think

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Speaker 1: long term. Um. But if you want this lifestyle that

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Speaker 1: we lead to continue on to future generations, then we

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Speaker 1: have to care about the whole system. And we have

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Speaker 1: all kinds of examples of this mark inside of of history. Um,

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Speaker 1: because it might seem like conspiracy theory. You might be like, oh,

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Speaker 1: Clay is just one of those dudes that you sound

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Speaker 1: like one of those kok yeah yeah, And man, what's

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Speaker 1: so like? From my personal experience, if you would have

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Speaker 1: come to me in Arkansas and and said clay hunting

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Speaker 1: is under threat, your children won't be able to hunt

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Speaker 1: the same way you have, I would have laughed at you, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, probably ten years ago, Mark, I would have

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Speaker 1: just been like, everybody's got some conspiracy theory about how

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Speaker 1: they're coming after them and going to take away their stuff.

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Speaker 1: That ain't gonna happen. Well, I am the level headed

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Speaker 1: voice of reason that is coming to say, man, we

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Speaker 1: gotta be on our toes. We got to be thinking

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Speaker 1: more than just next year. We got to be thinking

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Speaker 1: long term. And uh and and we can look back

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Speaker 1: in conservation history and say that the guys that did

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Speaker 1: that are the guys that we make statues of and

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Speaker 1: name conservation organizations after because we realize the insight they had,

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Speaker 1: you know, and and I mean, and I'm not I'm

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Speaker 1: not trying to say that that is me, that Mark

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Speaker 1: that came off wrong. But you know, just like we've

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Speaker 1: got to think that way. Yeah, I know what you mean,

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Speaker 1: So so help me help illustrate this, because I get

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Speaker 1: I mean and get this concept to this idea that

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Speaker 1: these these these outside of the center activities or the

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Speaker 1: fringe activities that are they're less popular and that makes

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Speaker 1: them an easier target. I understand that those are more

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Speaker 1: easily attacked by those who who own support hunting. But

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Speaker 1: help me understand, help folks listening understand how those edges

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Speaker 1: being chipped away at could eventually lead to impacting what

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Speaker 1: a white tail hunter is doing, because, like you said,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of white tail hunters that do not

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Speaker 1: feel like what we're doing here is under clear and

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Speaker 1: present threat. Right. I mean, there's ten million million deer

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Speaker 1: hunters or something like that, and generally something a very

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Speaker 1: high percentage of folks out there across the country are

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Speaker 1: still supportive of deer hunting for food or hunting for food,

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Speaker 1: that kind of thing. So you might be able to

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Speaker 1: sit back and say, yeah, it's not really going to

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Speaker 1: impact me. Um paint me this scenario where that might

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Speaker 1: not be true. Right. So the declared position and the

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Speaker 1: the clear and the clear strategy of anti hunting groups

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Speaker 1: is incrementalism. And that's the phrase that that people could

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Speaker 1: remember and key in on, which means that when when

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Speaker 1: they're trying to take the whole of something, you just

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Speaker 1: can't reach in and take the whole. They can't just

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Speaker 1: come in and say we're passing a bill in the

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Speaker 1: United in the Congress where all hunting is over, Like,

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Speaker 1: that's not gonna work. They know that, so that they

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Speaker 1: chip off the edges. It's called incrementalism. And the thing

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Speaker 1: is is that, I mean, the Humane Society of America

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Speaker 1: made a statement the CEO back in the nineties that

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Speaker 1: they have a their goal is to end all hunting

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Speaker 1: what they call sport hunting. Like so that's that's their

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Speaker 1: end goal. And and again when you look at the

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Speaker 1: look at the way these organizations work, they're massively well funded.

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Speaker 1: And these nonprofits, like these guys, if if they successfully

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Speaker 1: ended bear hunting, they still have massive financial interests and

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Speaker 1: in making money and in in so they're gonna just

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Speaker 1: go after the next thing and make the next thing

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Speaker 1: the target. Like it's like a like a like an

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Speaker 1: animal that just has to continue to be fed. Um,

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Speaker 1: So I'm not saying it's all money. I'm saying money

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Speaker 1: is a big part of it. I am also saying

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Speaker 1: that there are people that truly are passionate about ending

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Speaker 1: sport hunting, and they're not. They're not They're not gonna

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Speaker 1: come to a place where they're just like, Okay, that's enough.

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Speaker 1: It looks like, now, you know, the hunting world in

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Speaker 1: North America is we're satisfied with where it's at. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna let these boys keep deer hunting and shooting squirrels. Uh,

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Speaker 1: that's just not the way they think. Um. And we

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Speaker 1: see this in many places in the world. For instance, Mark,

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Speaker 1: I've got a in my office right here, I have

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Speaker 1: a painting and old painting of an English uh in

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Speaker 1: English fox hunt. And on this painting there's a bunch

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Speaker 1: of dogs, a bunch of walker dogs, and there's a

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Speaker 1: bunch of men on horseback and they're in this beautiful

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Speaker 1: village and there's there's families around bringing food to the hunters.

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Speaker 1: And Uh. I have that painting mounted on the ceiling

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Speaker 1: of my office. Okay, And so when people walk in,

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Speaker 1: they go, huh, why is it on the ceiling and

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Speaker 1: not on the wall, And it's it's symbolic. Uh, that

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Speaker 1: scene is no longer on the earth anymore. Like in

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Speaker 1: in most places in all of Europe it is illegal

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Speaker 1: fox with hounds. It's a few places it still is.

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Speaker 1: But essentially this one thing that was so significant to

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Speaker 1: European culture, you know, a hundred fifty years ago, which

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Speaker 1: when you see that, I mean like even people that

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Speaker 1: aren't hunters, when they see that, they go, oh man,

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Speaker 1: that's one of those fox hunts. I mean that that

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Speaker 1: that permeated the world. And uh, today they can't do it.

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Speaker 1: And uh it's a to me. It's a reminder that

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Speaker 1: I don't want people to be making paintings about the

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Speaker 1: glory days of North American hunting and it not no

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Speaker 1: longer be here, you know, Mark, does that answer your question?

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Speaker 1: In some ways? There? Could I be more specific? No,

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Speaker 1: it does. It does answer my question, and and it

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Speaker 1: also brings to mind you mentioned incrementalism. I think another

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Speaker 1: kind of cousin, uh to incrementalism is something known as

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Speaker 1: shifting baseline syndrome, which is this idea that each one

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Speaker 1: of us um has kind of an internal baseline when

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Speaker 1: we when we think about a concept or a or

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Speaker 1: quality of life or whatever. And usually for many of us,

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Speaker 1: we we established some kind of baseline in our early adulthood. Um,

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Speaker 1: and this can apply to a lot different realms. But

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Speaker 1: let's just think about in the case of hunting. We

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Speaker 1: come into the world and we established kind of what's okay,

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Speaker 1: and so we see what's around us, and we see like,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, people hunt for deer, people hunt for bears,

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Speaker 1: people hunt for all these different ers, and they they

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Speaker 1: have this lifestyle and there's all these things. But if

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Speaker 1: we fast forward twenty years from now and then all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, you start seeing this this incremental impact

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Speaker 1: of well, now you can't bait for bears, or now

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Speaker 1: you can't use hounds for bears. All these things happen

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Speaker 1: in ah this state or that state, or this thing

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Speaker 1: gets outlawed in this state, and you start seeing all

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Speaker 1: these tiny shifts being made, these tiny chips away at

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Speaker 1: the larger statue. All of a sudden, for much of

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Speaker 1: the world or much of the country, that baseline starts shifting.

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Speaker 1: And once that baseline shifts, the next thing becomes that

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Speaker 1: much less of a change. So if you were to

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Speaker 1: compare what was okay quote unquote twenty years ago to

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Speaker 1: what might be deemed as okay quote unquote, you know,

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Speaker 1: in two thousand forty, all of a sudden, that baseline

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Speaker 1: could be shifted significantly, so much so that then when

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Speaker 1: they think, well, should you really be able to bow

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Speaker 1: hunt for deer anymore? I don't know. You can't use

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Speaker 1: bait to hunt bears, you can't use dogs hunt bearris,

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Speaker 1: you can't use this, you can't hunt predators at all.

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Speaker 1: You can't do this and this and this, yeah, and

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Speaker 1: why can't you do that? Well, it's because we've all

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Speaker 1: this is this, this uh you know, hypothetical person in

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Speaker 1: the future who's saying this, Well, we decided that this

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Speaker 1: thing is not ethical, and this thing is not ethical,

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Speaker 1: and this thing is not ethical. So yeah, I don't

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Speaker 1: think that using a bow is ethical anymore because it's etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: And if this baseline keeps moving, it leads to those

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Speaker 1: things becoming an easy next step to be to be

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Speaker 1: crossed off the list. Um. And so that's something I

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Speaker 1: think that is tied into this whole conversation too, because

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Speaker 1: it's it's kind of like a damn, We've got this

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Speaker 1: damned up reservoir, and every time a little hole is

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Speaker 1: poked in that damn some water shooting out of it,

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Speaker 1: and we might be a hold most of that reservoir back,

378
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Speaker 1: but every additional hole poked in it, it becomes easier

379
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Speaker 1: and easier and easier to lose the water until one

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Speaker 1: day that damn is gonna burst open and the whole

381
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Speaker 1: damn thing is gonna go flushing down the river system.

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Speaker 1: We gotta keep the holes plugged, We gotta keep the

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Speaker 1: damn in place. If the thing that the damn is

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Speaker 1: holding up is your lifestyle, your passion, this thing that

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Speaker 1: we that both of us and probably everybody listening, this

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Speaker 1: thing we all believe is is an important thing, not

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Speaker 1: just for us personally, but also in the big picture,

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Speaker 1: an important an important part of North American culture and

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Speaker 1: management and conservation of wildlife resources. All those things are

390
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Speaker 1: dependent on having an active and engaged hunting population. Um,

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Speaker 1: if that damn breaks, all that changes. Yeah, that's a

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00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 1: great point. Mark the shifting baseline really is. And here's

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Speaker 1: you know, if we started back in the deep history

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Speaker 1: of modern North American hunting, we would be talking about

395
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Speaker 1: like the market hunting era that turned into in the

396
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Speaker 1: early twentieth century, the the these first and fresh ideas

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Speaker 1: of wildlife management, conservation, wildlife management and regulated harvest and

398
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Speaker 1: all these things. There were times when parts of our

399
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Speaker 1: hunting culture needed to be shaved off. If you're with me,

400
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Speaker 1: like they're they're you know, like the market hunting world,

401
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 1: Like that wasn't cool. We didn't know it at the time,

402
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 1: but like it wasn't sustainable, it wouldn't last. And then

403
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Speaker 1: then we came into this whole idea, you know, with

404
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 1: Roosevelt and Aldo Leopold and in all these great conservation

405
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 1: organizations coming of age, and then we have this like incredible,

406
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Speaker 1: I mean, the most one of the most well the

407
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Speaker 1: most unique story in modern human history of while of

408
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 1: bringing back wildlife is the story of the North American

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Speaker 1: wildlife recovery. You know, that's taken place in the last

410
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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty years in this country. So there were

411
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Speaker 1: things that needed to be shaved off by society, like, yeah,

412
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Speaker 1: we probably shouldn't be like, uh, market hunting for ducks,

413
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Speaker 1: you know, killing a thousand ducks on the water at

414
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Speaker 1: the same time. Yeah, we shouldn't be you know, doing

415
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Speaker 1: buffalo jumps. Uh, you know that's a bad example. But

416
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Speaker 1: you know, Margaret hunt for buffaloes. Everybody knows that. Here's

417
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: the point we have fine tuned the North American mile

418
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Speaker 1: of wildlife conservation to the point that we have nothing

419
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Speaker 1: left to give. And I'm not saying that it's perfect mark,

420
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Speaker 1: but what i am saying is we've got nothing left

421
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Speaker 1: to give the anti hunting community. And we have We've

422
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:40,239
Speaker 1: proven that by our track record of the success of

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Speaker 1: the twenty nine big game species in North America and

424
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Speaker 1: the and we know that most of these animals are

425
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Speaker 1: indicator species in these habitats. So you know, if you've

426
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: got Arkansas black bears in Arkansas, that means that a

427
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 1: whole lot of non game species are doing good too,

428
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,679
Speaker 1: because if that bear is there, that means that this whole,

429
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: this whole order of habitat is in order, all the

430
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,919
Speaker 1: way down to the micro crustaceans, you know. And so

431
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 1: like point being, our our track record speaks for us

432
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 1: that this has worked. So we've we've found this like

433
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: beautiful place in history where we can say what we're

434
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,880
Speaker 1: doing is working. What we're doing will last another five

435
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 1: hundred years, you know, if this place is still here

436
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: that long. So we've found this like great spot to

437
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 1: just say what we're doing is working, Let's keep doing

438
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: this and that's where and and and what I like

439
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: to say is we've got nothing left to give the

440
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: anti hunting community. Um, because we've shaped, we've the chaff

441
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 1: has gone away, we've shaved off, we've honed, we've changed,

442
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: and so anything that's lost at this point is it's

443
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 1: going to be negative for hunting. And uh, you know,

444
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 1: and we go back to all the way and this

445
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 1: goes back to educating people. You know, like somebody might say, well,

446
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,160
Speaker 1: I don't like baiting bears. Well, anywhere that you bait

447
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 1: bears in North America. It's a management decision for wildlife

448
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 1: game agencies to be able to harvest the number of

449
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: bears that need to harvest. Well, I don't like hunting

450
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 1: with hounds. Well, anywhere that you can hunt with hounds.

451
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: It's been a it is it is designed as a

452
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 1: wildlife management tool by the agencies that love wildlife want

453
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 1: to see them thrive. They've chosen to use hound hunting.

454
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,400
Speaker 1: There's a method to selectively harvest animals out of the population.

455
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 1: Well I don't like, um, you know, being able. You know,

456
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 1: you just go down the list and it's like we've

457
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:44,120
Speaker 1: got an answer for everything. There's not there's not just

458
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:50,199
Speaker 1: some fluff um that needs to be shaved off. And

459
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 1: I think that's the point, and that's the declaration that

460
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: we've kind of make, got to make as a community.

461
00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 1: And so that's where like I want to give my

462
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,439
Speaker 1: support two things that I may never even be that

463
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 1: interested in. I've never killed a bear over hounds. Mark.

464
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: That might surprise some people because I'm so outspokenly for hounds.

465
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,120
Speaker 1: And uh, I've never killed a barrel of hounds. I'm

466
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 1: sure I will someday, but like, I don't even and

467
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: it's this is a long story, but I'm just trying

468
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 1: to describe a point that I try to live is

469
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,400
Speaker 1: that I don't own bear dogs. We can't hunt bear

470
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 1: here in Arkansas with dogs. I do own coon hounds

471
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: that come from bare lines. But man, I just feel

472
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: like it would be a massive loss for us to

473
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: lose bear hunting with hounds. Um it go ahead, Mark, Yes, So,

474
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: so I want to bring up a tough question around

475
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: this issue, not hunting with dogs in particular. But but

476
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 1: this is the thing I strug with thinking about. There's

477
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 1: there's two there's two different angles on this that I've

478
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 1: heard taken. And I'm not saying I endorse this. I'm

479
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 1: I'm acting a little bit as a devil's advocate here

480
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: to try to help you and I and anyone listening

481
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: to better to better formulate how we can think about

482
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 1: this and speak about this. There's one idea which is

483
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: kind of the stone wall strategy, which is essentially what

484
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: I think you're advocating for here, which is, there's no

485
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: more to give. If we give any more, we're poking

486
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:33,719
Speaker 1: more more holes in the damn, the dam will come

487
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 1: down if we give anymore. UM. There's another angle that

488
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: some people would promote, which would be to protect the

489
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 1: greater whole, sacrifice, sacrificial lambs are necessary. Let me let

490
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 1: me expand on that a little bit. Let's let's let's

491
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 1: say that there's there's a case that some people might make,

492
00:29:55,240 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 1: which is that hunting for food is a sustainable, supported,

493
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: approved thing today and likely in the future. Polling has

494
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 1: shown that etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. UM, And whether we like

495
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,719
Speaker 1: it or not, a tremendous amount of what we do

496
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,719
Speaker 1: as hunters is a privilege that is only granted to

497
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 1: us as long as the general public supports of it.

498
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: Because we've seen that very quickly, I public support swings

499
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: the other way, legislation can get it rammed through and

500
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 1: can change that fast. So one might say, the most

501
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: important thing we can do to preserve the larger whole

502
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: of hunting is to make sure that we don't lose

503
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: the PR battle. If we lose the PR battle, we

504
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: can lose hunting in a day. Stick with me here.

505
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: So with this line of thinking, and again I want

506
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 1: to make it clear, this is not what I'm personally advocating.

507
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: I'm simply trying to help. What could be said is

508
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: that if we want to protect the future of hunting

509
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: in general and hunting for food in general, we cannot

510
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: stand up for something that is far outside of that

511
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: because it is antithetical to the larger things. So an

512
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: example I saw on social media recently was that someone

513
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: posted this is a hunter posted about uh, some film

514
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 1: that was coming out recently that was examining predator hunting

515
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: competitions and how you know, hundreds and hundreds or thousands

516
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: of thousands of coyotes and predators and different things like

517
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 1: that were being killed for sport competition, thrown into dumpsters, etcetera, etcetera,

518
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: And there was a lot of negative optics around this,

519
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: and there was a lot of people saying, man, that

520
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: does not look good for hunting. That is a bad look.

521
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: And if the general public sees something like this, they're

522
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: really quickly going to say, Man, if that's what hunting

523
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: is about, I can't support that. And if that's the case,

524
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: it leads to bigger and big your chunks of the

525
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: hunting world being crossed off the list for that reason.

526
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 1: So this this kind of goes back to something that

527
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: our mutual friends Steve has talked about, which is, Hey,

528
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: we're all on the same boat. Let's be supportive of

529
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: each other. But hey, if you're blowing holes in the boat,

530
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: then we've got an issue. If you're gonna sink the boat,

531
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: then we've got an issue. So how do we reconcile

532
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 1: those things? Clay, Like, what do you think about that?

533
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: Because because I well a lot of like questions around

534
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: this too. Yeah, yeah, well and I do too. And

535
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 1: I love that you brought this up, because this is

536
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:36,959
Speaker 1: a real thing that we've got to deal with and

537
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: think about. And first of all, if if if we

538
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,239
Speaker 1: could just make a deal, like if we could just

539
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 1: sit down with the top level leaders that would govern

540
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: all of the anti hunting movement for the next fifty years.

541
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: And we can say, tell you what, We'll give you

542
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: some of this fringe stuff, you just leave us alone

543
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 1: on the other stuff. I just don't think you could

544
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 1: do it. Uh. Number one, that's never gonna happen. Remember

545
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 1: what kind of the scenario described about these these big

546
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: groups being massively influenced by money, Like if they get

547
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 1: rid of one thing, they're going after another. So that's

548
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 1: just like an untrue premise that if we chopped this off,

549
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 1: then the rest of it would be safe. So there's

550
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 1: and somebody might disagree with me, Like there might be

551
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: somebody that would say, well, but that's not true. And

552
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 1: I would just say, show me where that's not been true.

553
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 1: Show me where there is an anti hunting group that says,

554
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: tell you what, boys, we like you guys, we want

555
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 1: to play fair. You give us that and it will

556
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: just leave you alone. That just doesn't happen. So I

557
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: agree with that, and and starm to jump in here.

558
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: I just want to insert one more thought because I

559
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 1: want to challenge these ideas. And I'm not challenging the person,

560
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: but I want challenges ideas just because like I need

561
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: to solidify my thinking, and I think we all needed

562
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 1: to make sure we've got a good way to think

563
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 1: and talk about this stuff. So that's why I want

564
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: to present these kind of conflicting these conflicts a little

565
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 1: bit so we can all kind of understand it and

566
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: think about it. Um. So, so let me throw another

567
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 1: Devil's advocate thing in there, which is maybe like, we

568
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: could never as you're saying, we could never satisfy the

569
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 1: anti hunting groups, will never be able to satisfy that

570
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 1: extreme fringe of this movement who is anti hunting. And

571
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 1: I think most research shows that the actual anti hunting

572
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 1: groups are really just, you know, a relatively small portion

573
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 1: of the greater population, like people who are actively anti

574
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 1: hunting five percent of the population or something like that.

575
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 1: So the you might say that the bigger piece of

576
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 1: the puzzle is not the anti hunting fringe, but it

577
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 1: is the se in the middle or whatever that number is,

578
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: this big chunk in the middle who are kind of

579
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 1: like indifferent. It usually doesn't enter their sphere of influence.

580
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 1: They never think about it. Uh. They're generally like if

581
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 1: someone said, hey, are you okay with someone doing this?

582
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 1: Depending on the situation, they'll say, oh, yeah, okay, or

583
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 1: maybe they'll hear it like no, not so much. So

584
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 1: it's more so like we we've kind of represent the

585
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 1: fringe too. We represent five percent of the population that

586
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 1: does hunt, and then there's this five percent of the

587
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 1: populations like super anti hunting. And so one might say

588
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 1: that rather than caring so much about that fringe five,

589
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 1: really we should be thinking about how do we win

590
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: over the middle seventy or the middle you know, ninety

591
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 1: or whatever it is um And so in that case,

592
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: you might say, we can never satisfy these other folks.

593
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: Let's just try to satisfy that middle. Now, as I'm

594
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: saying this, I could also see the argument to what

595
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 1: I just said could be that because of the influence

596
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: of the fringe anti hunters, they will keep fifting the

597
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 1: baseline for the center. And if the baseline for that

598
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 1: keep shifting because of the actions of the radical few,

599
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 1: that then could lead to you know, issues. Uh. I

600
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: don't know, Clay, Maybe I'm going too far down this

601
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 1: rabbit hole, but it's I understand what you're saying, and

602
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 1: you're very much so right, and that it's the people

603
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 1: that don't care that will be the ones that decide.

604
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 1: So really in many ways, it's a marketing battle. It's

605
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: a marketing battle. Like they're telling their story, we're telling

606
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 1: our story, and it's that interpret the story and make

607
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 1: the decision. And your numbers are are the numbers that

608
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 1: I have in my head to mark. I mean, like

609
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 1: I don't I don't want to pay I don't want

610
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: to give too much credit to the anti hunting groups,

611
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 1: but I don't want to minimize them either, because you know,

612
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:51,240
Speaker 1: some people are like, it's not real, not anti hunting groups.

613
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: You know, they're not really doing much, but they are

614
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:58,320
Speaker 1: in that they're influencing massive segments of people who didn't care.

615
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 1: And you don't even have to radicalize people to win.

616
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: Do you understand what I'm saying. I mean, like, so

617
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 1: like there's these people that are like dedicating their lives

618
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: to the anti hung Yeah, you're right, that's like five percent,

619
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: like small, small numbers, but them just tipping over somebody

620
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,359
Speaker 1: who doesn't care in the direction of them is a

621
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 1: massive win for them and a loss for us, you know,

622
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 1: And I think easier, I think way easier. So I

623
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: would say, like, if we're gonna if we're gonna say,

624
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 1: there's their five percent versus our five percent, and then

625
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 1: there's that in the middle whatever. Um, it's absolutely easier

626
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 1: for the scales to be tipped in their favor because

627
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 1: I think the story they're telling does resonate with more

628
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: people that are divorced from hunting in the outside world. Um. Yeah,

629
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 1: and this is not news. It's a one it's a

630
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,839
Speaker 1: one step sell. Yeah, yeah, you made that point. It's

631
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: a one step sell for them, it's a ten steps

632
00:37:58,160 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 1: sell for us because we've got to bring them on

633
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 1: board with Well, actually, we aren't indiscriminately killing animals. Actually

634
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 1: we use these animals in many different ways. Actually they're

635
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 1: carefully managed. Actually we really care and support these things.

636
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: Actually we pay for conservation. Actually we we we give

637
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: back and bring family members and children into this thing,

638
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 1: and we steward the landscape, and we steward that. That's

639
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 1: a long complicated story to tell. They can simply be

640
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 1: They could simply put a picture on Facebook and say,

641
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 1: look at this murderer and what they did to ABC

642
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 1: D f G, or look at this comment that was

643
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 1: written here. These guys are bloodthirsty, nasty killers that are

644
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 1: killing Simba or they're killing Beluga the bear or whatever

645
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: it is, and very quickly you can switch people to

646
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 1: the other camp at least for that day or that week,

647
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 1: or that petition um or that ballot measure um so.

648
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 1: And it's tough. It's very tough. It's very tough. And

649
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,800
Speaker 1: and I want to say something that I heard Shane

650
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 1: Mahoney say, and I want to give him credit for this,

651
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 1: because he changed the way that I perceived this. You

652
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 1: might have heard me talking and in in like the

653
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:10,319
Speaker 1: trend of the age and in anything as division is

654
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 1: like them and us, you know, the bad guys the

655
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 1: good guys, this worldview versus that worldview. And unfortunately in

656
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 1: this scenario in there's some places where that's just unavoidable.

657
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 1: Like we there are two worldviews that are colliding here,

658
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 1: and that is just the nuts and bolts of the situation.

659
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 1: But what what I've heard Shane Mahoney say is that like,

660
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: we're not we're not adversarial against the people that don't understand,

661
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:48,879
Speaker 1: because those are the people that we're trying to give

662
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 1: a good picture of what we do and an understand

663
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,720
Speaker 1: of what we do. And I said it many times,

664
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 1: it's like I want to have empathy towards people that

665
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: just don't understand their lifestyle. Like, I mean, there's plenty

666
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 1: of people that live in urban places or not even

667
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 1: an urban place. There's people that live in my town

668
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: here in Arkansas that don't understand modern hunting. And like,

669
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 1: I'm not I can't be like mad at that person

670
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 1: for that, you know, um, and and uh and and

671
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 1: so like, I don't want people to interpret what I'm

672
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 1: saying as like a point of a point of division

673
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 1: us in them. Like, really, the way we need to

674
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: look at it is, Hey, we have a lifestyle that

675
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:37,799
Speaker 1: we believe is is noble, is valuable, is worth sustaining. Uh,

676
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 1: it's misunderstood, and it's in and we've made mistakes in

677
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 1: the past. But it's our job to represent our lifestyle

678
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 1: in modern times in the most noble, honorable way that

679
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 1: we can with the intent of showing the world a

680
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 1: true picture of who we are. And um, that does

681
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 1: involve some direct confrontation at times. And we'll talk about

682
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 1: like later some specific things that that we can do

683
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 1: that are going to help that part of it. Um.

684
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: But you know, that's just the thought I had, Mark,

685
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:18,839
Speaker 1: because I I don't I don't really I don't like confrontation. Man,

686
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 1: I mean, like I didn't like just wake up one

687
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 1: day and decided to start saying this stuff. I don't

688
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: know what I mean. I don't believe you because I

689
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 1: saw you. You posted a video on Instagram the other

690
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,919
Speaker 1: day where you were directly challenging Steve Ronnella on how

691
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 1: shitty his crow call sounded. So you, my friend, are

692
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 1: glutton for conflict. If you're willing to debate on crow calls.

693
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: If that is true, then I maybe it's true, Mark,

694
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 1: maybe it's true. But I would rather just get along

695
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 1: with everybody. I would rather step or now that just

696
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 1: listen to me and blow the crow call the right way,

697
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:54,839
Speaker 1: and then all this would have been over. You know

698
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, But it doesn't matter to get him

699
00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 1: to gobble. I digress, digress, But no, I know what

700
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 1: you mean, and I'm I'm right there with you in

701
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:11,799
Speaker 1: the same boat. But it's it's this, it's it's a

702
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:18,399
Speaker 1: weird situation that I find us in because you're right,

703
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:22,720
Speaker 1: like we we we want to bridge gaps. We want

704
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 1: to build a coalition of support, we want to support

705
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 1: others within this community of hunting. At the same time,

706
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 1: we have to win the pr battle and that's where

707
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 1: I feel like the real challenges lie at least one

708
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 1: of what that's ee, the two sets of challenges. One

709
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 1: set of challenges is simply guarding the gate. The other

710
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 1: challenges winning the pr fight, and we gotta fair out

711
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 1: of way to do both at the same time. And

712
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 1: that is the rub well, and that brings up a

713
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,240
Speaker 1: great point. I'm glad you brought up this this wildlife

714
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:57,280
Speaker 1: killing contest thing, because boy, that's a hard one. Uh.

715
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 1: I don't like wildlife killing contests. I'm mean honestly, like

716
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:07,799
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I I there's and and I

717
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:12,359
Speaker 1: don't want to I don't know all the details, but

718
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 1: I can tell you that's not a great representation of

719
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:22,320
Speaker 1: the whole model of North American hunting. At the same time,

720
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 1: what those guys are doing, I mean they're they're not

721
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 1: there's not much harm. There's a lot of good being

722
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 1: done inside of sending out predators. And I know the

723
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 1: science that it doesn't always help you know, the game,

724
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:39,240
Speaker 1: animals and all the different things. Um So in some ways,

725
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, while life killing contest is different than

726
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 1: what we're talking about, But at the same time, if

727
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:48,959
Speaker 1: you give them that, they're gonna just come after something else.

728
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: So I'm torn on that Mark, and I'm openly it's

729
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 1: because when I saw that stuff coming from a hunter,

730
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,120
Speaker 1: I thought, man, this is not good. I mean like

731
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 1: like I don't I I can't get behind that film.

732
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 1: And I'm I'm kind of making myself vulnerable here, but like,

733
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 1: you're not gonna see me promoting that film at the

734
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 1: same time, I see what they're saying. I mean, uh,

735
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 1: and that is one little caveat that is very it's

736
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 1: its own little animal, you know, contest. Uh and uh,

737
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 1: it's very different than predator hunting. Like the problem with

738
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:32,280
Speaker 1: supporting that is that then you kind of fall into

739
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: this camp of this idea that you support. You know,

740
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:38,840
Speaker 1: you don't support predator hunting, which is tough. Here. Here's

741
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 1: something about um these things, Mark, is that well, you

742
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 1: you talked about people, there's wide support, wide public support

743
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:53,880
Speaker 1: for hunting as a as a as a food source.

744
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:56,280
Speaker 1: You know, if we're hunting because we're gonna eat the food,

745
00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 1: then it's totally okay. That's where a lot of these things.

746
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 1: There's very few animals that we kill that we can't

747
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:05,399
Speaker 1: eat in the meat isn't great. And if we're talking

748
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,879
Speaker 1: about the two big predators that most people are talking about,

749
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:12,320
Speaker 1: mountain lions and bears. I mean, this is just totally

750
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 1: a pr thing. I mean, like mountain lion and bear

751
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 1: meat is incredible. And that's what I've said as publisher

752
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 1: of Bear Hunting magazine, and I said it publicly recently.

753
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 1: A big part of the future of bear hunting will

754
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:30,360
Speaker 1: be determined by how well that we number one utilize

755
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,320
Speaker 1: our bear meat as hunters and number two tell people

756
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: about that. Like, I mean, the bear meat is incredible meat. Um.

757
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 1: And like the idea that killing a deer it's more

758
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: noble than killing a bear because you don't use the

759
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:49,319
Speaker 1: meat is just not It's just not true. Um. There

760
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:52,959
Speaker 1: was a there was a gap in our history when

761
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: just public perception of bear meat went down, you know,

762
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 1: just like all kinds of things kind of ebb and flow.

763
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:04,399
Speaker 1: And now we're bringing it back and we're saying, hey,

764
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 1: bear meat is actually an incredible food source, incredible meat. Um.

765
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:10,879
Speaker 1: We're killing bears to eat them, too, uise their fat,

766
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 1: to utilize their their hides. We actually use more of

767
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 1: a bear than any other game animal in North America.

768
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:20,359
Speaker 1: And I would I really believe that's true. I mean,

769
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 1: I would say of bears that are killed, their hides

770
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 1: are tanned. And I could ask you Mark, and and

771
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to set you up. I'm a white

772
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:30,800
Speaker 1: tail hunter too. I mean, how many tan deer hides

773
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 1: do you have in your house? I mean, you know,

774
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 1: probably not very many. Yeah, And and that's not you

775
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:43,240
Speaker 1: see my point? We could use a lot of a bear. Um.

776
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 1: And that food thing is important, it's important, and I

777
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 1: think the well we we've got to have people that

778
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 1: have a robust understanding of the North American model that

779
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 1: predator hunting is important for its own reasons. And some

780
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 1: of those reasons aren't food. Like if we're talking about coyotes,

781
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:08,280
Speaker 1: if we're talking about raccoons, um, if we're talking about

782
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: and in all these things you could eat, but we're

783
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 1: more hunting these animals for management purposes. Um. But food

784
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 1: is a big part of it. It's a big part

785
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 1: of it, and we've got to do a better job.

786
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 1: And that's what meat Eater has done so good at,

787
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 1: been so good at is telling the story of the

788
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 1: food aspect of of hunting. So this story side of

789
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 1: things is critical, I mean, it is It is a

790
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:39,359
Speaker 1: big part of the PR battle, who's who's sharing their

791
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 1: story more clearly and effectively, because that's what life is.

792
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 1: It's it's a bunch of people all over the place.

793
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:46,799
Speaker 1: We're all telling our own stories about what we do

794
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:48,399
Speaker 1: or what we want, or what we think the world

795
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 1: should be like. And usually the way the world goes

796
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 1: is in the direction of whichever story is more compelling,

797
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 1: more clear, uh is truer about what it actually represents

798
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 1: than the other than the other side. And so if

799
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 1: we want my my hypothesis here is that if we

800
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:09,359
Speaker 1: want to be able to guard the gate, so keep

801
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 1: up this, keep the damn up while also winning the

802
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:16,760
Speaker 1: PR fight. I think we we need to fine tune

803
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 1: on our storytelling around this. And I don't mean fictional stories.

804
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 1: I mean like talking about and showcasing and representing ourselves

805
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 1: and what we're doing. Um in particular, maybe as you

806
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 1: describe like there is a gap I think for some

807
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 1: folks to understand what's the story for predator hunting. If

808
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 1: you're not going to eat a wolf or a coyote,

809
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 1: You're not gonna eat a coon your your shot out

810
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 1: of the tree, or a beaver that you trapped or

811
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 1: something like that. You're someone who has had to think

812
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,800
Speaker 1: about this and talk about this. Can you tell can you?

813
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:50,839
Speaker 1: Can you share with us the story you would share

814
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 1: with someone about that. And I'm asking this because there

815
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:55,720
Speaker 1: might be a new hunter listening right now, someone who's

816
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 1: gotten into deer hunting, and they say, Hey, I'm willing

817
00:48:57,760 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 1: to give this thing a shot. I'm willing to feed

818
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:00,840
Speaker 1: my family with a deer. That sounds like something to

819
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 1: get behind. But they see someone talking about shooting a wolf,

820
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:07,800
Speaker 1: where they see somebody talking about trapping a beaver or

821
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 1: something like ah, that just feels like if you're not gonnating,

822
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 1: I don't get it. Um, can you can you tell

823
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:18,399
Speaker 1: that story for folks? Well, the first piece in this right,

824
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 1: this phrase right here mark ought to be on the

825
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:23,759
Speaker 1: lips of every North American hunter, all eleven point five

826
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 1: million of us, is that one of the pillars in

827
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 1: the North American Wildlife Conservation is non frivolous use of wildlife. Okay,

828
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 1: so everything we do fits into everything we do that's legal,

829
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 1: fits into this idea that we do not kill wildlife

830
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:47,240
Speaker 1: just for fun. So okay, if we took that pillar,

831
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 1: we would say nine seven of that pillar is fulfilled

832
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 1: by us eating the meat of the animal that we harvest,

833
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,799
Speaker 1: whether it's an elk, whether it's a deer, whether it's

834
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 1: a bear, whether it's a turkey, whether it's a squirrel,

835
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 1: whether it's a rabbit, pheasant. Like non frivolous use means

836
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna harvest this animal, and we're gonna

837
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:17,359
Speaker 1: eat it. But there are other reasons to kill an

838
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:23,719
Speaker 1: animal that have very productive outcomes for everything involved that

839
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 1: do not prioritize the eating of the meat of that animal.

840
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:33,880
Speaker 1: And these would be fur baring animals in particular. Um,

841
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 1: you know, we're just not and I'm trying to you know, Well,

842
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: here's the thing about meat too. There's no meat of

843
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 1: any animal in North America that you can't eat. I mean,

844
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 1: there might be a poisonous frog or something. I mean like,

845
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 1: but like, you can eat a coon, you can need

846
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 1: a coyote, you can eat a wolf, you can eat this,

847
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:55,799
Speaker 1: you could eat that. Like, it's not you're not gonna

848
00:50:55,800 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 1: be poisoned by it. But the the reason for the

849
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 1: killing that animal, that may not be the number one

850
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 1: reason you do it. Like, for instance, let's talk about raccoons,

851
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:09,279
Speaker 1: which i'm i'm I love to coon hunt, love it. Um.

852
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 1: Coons are considered messo predators, mid sized predators. At one

853
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:15,799
Speaker 1: time on the landscape here in Arkansas and all over

854
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:19,480
Speaker 1: the country. Um, there were there were gray wolves here,

855
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:22,760
Speaker 1: there were mountain lions here, you know, pre European settlement

856
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:27,360
Speaker 1: and through some of European settlement, and those animals were removed,

857
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:30,799
Speaker 1: not not necessarily even by hunters, but by society and

858
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 1: by civilization, encroachment of civilization, taken away of habitat, and

859
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 1: by people just saying we don't want them here. So

860
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 1: that's not can't be all on hunters. That's a lot

861
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 1: of habitat related issues and whatnot. But regardless, they're no

862
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 1: longer here for the most part. Well, the mid sized predators,

863
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:51,799
Speaker 1: the meso predators have significantly increased. And this isn't anecdotal,

864
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:55,239
Speaker 1: this is like research based. There are I think three

865
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 1: hundred million raccoons in this country, which is far more

866
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:02,719
Speaker 1: than there were or your pre European settlement, and so

867
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 1: raccoons need to be managed. And if the only reason,

868
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:12,760
Speaker 1: I mean, we we are doing nothing but good things

869
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:16,839
Speaker 1: for the environment by taking raccoons out of that population.

870
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 1: For many reasons I could go into, which is another

871
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 1: rabbit hole. And number one, those animals are gonna die

872
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:28,320
Speaker 1: from distemper when they get overpopulated, which constantly happens research

873
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 1: based coon populations get overinflated. Uh, Distemper runs through the herd,

874
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 1: knocks some way down, coons get hit on the road. Coons,

875
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 1: you know this. These animals are gonna die. They don't

876
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:44,919
Speaker 1: live forever. So a hunter going out harvesting a coon,

877
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 1: taking his hide, eating some of the meat occasionally, to me,

878
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:52,840
Speaker 1: it's like massive wind non in it. And it fits

879
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:55,880
Speaker 1: into that three percent you know I said of the

880
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:59,759
Speaker 1: non frivolous use is fulfilled by eating the meat. There's

881
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 1: just three non frivolous use of that coon means you're

882
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 1: taking its hide, and it means that you're doing it

883
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:10,839
Speaker 1: with management goals in mind. Um So, Mark, is that

884
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:13,839
Speaker 1: does that satisfy you? Or I could go I could

885
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:16,800
Speaker 1: probably continue. No, it's it's a great it's a great example.

886
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 1: And I think you said something there that I think

887
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 1: is is really important, which is which actually just slipped

888
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 1: my mind, which is I literally just had a very

889
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:32,880
Speaker 1: strange brain deletion of what I wanted to say. But

890
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:36,280
Speaker 1: but oh, maybe you were mesmerized about the coon stories

891
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 1: down there with clay go coon hunting. What I think

892
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 1: I'm trying to say is that is that an important

893
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:48,719
Speaker 1: thing to note is that it's it's non frivolous. And then, oh,

894
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 1: I know, I know what I'm trying to stay here.

895
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 1: It's a simple fact, but it's it's it changes the

896
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 1: whole paradigm when you simply state these things are going

897
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 1: to die. Everything dies. There's no life that extends in perpetuity.

898
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 1: There's no raccoon that's gonna live forever except for that

899
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 1: bloodthirsty hunter. No, these animals, they they live and die

900
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:16,759
Speaker 1: just like we do, and they are going to have

901
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:21,320
Speaker 1: deaths that are much shorter. Some we much longer lived lives,

902
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:24,720
Speaker 1: some we much shorter. That's than the nature of nature

903
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 1: and the fact that we can go in there on

904
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 1: occasion with non frivolous intentions and and and take some

905
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 1: of that in a managed fashion. I think that that

906
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 1: is there's just some simple beauty in the fact that

907
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 1: in many cases it's food related. If not, it is

908
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:49,719
Speaker 1: still being done for some kind of use. And oh,

909
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:52,799
Speaker 1: by the way, it's gonna happen regardless of whether we're

910
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:55,760
Speaker 1: involved in or not. If the hunter doesn't do it,

911
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:59,400
Speaker 1: it's still going to happen. Why not be participatory and

912
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 1: also use something of this too. I think in that

913
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:06,759
Speaker 1: way there's there's a simple defense there, you know. And

914
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:11,240
Speaker 1: that's a great point. And and you know, some people

915
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:14,840
Speaker 1: could get hung up on well, you know, what about

916
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:18,399
Speaker 1: the what about the coon that you shot? Like, did

917
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:21,920
Speaker 1: it go through trauma? Did it? Man? All animals are

918
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:26,120
Speaker 1: gonna die in being killed at the hands of a

919
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:32,800
Speaker 1: hunter nine percent of the time is gonna be much quicker, faster, ethical,

920
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 1: more humane than the way that nature is going to

921
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,680
Speaker 1: take that animal out. I mean, it's just true. And

922
00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:40,920
Speaker 1: it's kind of like one of those blunt facts that

923
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:43,920
Speaker 1: like a big fish, cold dead fish slapping somebody in

924
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:45,600
Speaker 1: the face. You don't you don't like to pull it

925
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 1: out very often because it's kind of crap. It's almost

926
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 1: crashed to say it. Like, but man, you see a bear,

927
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 1: that bear will is guaranteed to die a pretty non ceremonial,

928
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 1: brutal death. And that's in that cold, wet fish of

929
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:13,120
Speaker 1: a fact is increasingly hidden under the covers by society,

930
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:17,040
Speaker 1: especially for folks that that live far away from this stuff.

931
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:18,800
Speaker 1: The folks that live in a city that aren't engaged

932
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 1: in the natural world as many of us are and

933
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:23,640
Speaker 1: see it. I think that's one of the best things

934
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:26,800
Speaker 1: about hunting is it opens your eyes to the reality

935
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:29,359
Speaker 1: of life and death, and I think it it makes

936
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:32,960
Speaker 1: us understand and appreciate and respect so many things more

937
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:36,680
Speaker 1: because of that. UM. I don't blame people who don't

938
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:40,680
Speaker 1: have that insight. I don't I don't look at them

939
00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:42,799
Speaker 1: in disgust because they don't understand. I'm not even gonna

940
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:44,799
Speaker 1: be mad at them for not understanding it, because maybe

941
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:47,720
Speaker 1: they just haven't had the opportunity to see these things

942
00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 1: think about these things other than something they saw on

943
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:52,919
Speaker 1: TV or whatever. So it's it's really easy for someone

944
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:56,279
Speaker 1: who's never been exposed to the stuff to think that

945
00:56:56,640 --> 00:56:59,880
Speaker 1: every animal out there is Simba and Mufasa and Raffiki

946
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:01,920
Speaker 1: and all these critters that my son's watching on the

947
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:05,040
Speaker 1: Lion King, and it is heartbreaking when Mufasa dies and

948
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:07,880
Speaker 1: I get that, and my son cries, and I probably

949
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 1: cried when I was eight years old, and I can

950
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:14,960
Speaker 1: see why. When we've personified an anthropomorphized animals so much

951
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:19,520
Speaker 1: in media that it would feel like an individual is

952
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:26,440
Speaker 1: being tragically removed from Earth. But this stuff is the

953
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:32,920
Speaker 1: reality of the natural world, and that story is something

954
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:37,959
Speaker 1: that we got to be really good at telling. Yeah, yeah, well,

955
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 1: you know, I mean the whole the story of mankind

956
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 1: acquiring wild protein for sustenance for their families is his

957
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 1: old It's it's the oldest story. I mean, it really is.

958
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 1: And in man has found ways to memorialize the hunt forever.

959
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:01,800
Speaker 1: I mean, going all the way back to the first

960
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 1: art that was created by humans was typically was created

961
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:09,160
Speaker 1: around hunting. And you know, and this is kind of

962
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 1: getting romantic, and I'm okay with that mark because I'm

963
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:15,560
Speaker 1: a romantic. But like, man, I go out here with

964
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:17,920
Speaker 1: my plot hounds and we tree a coon out in

965
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:24,919
Speaker 1: the mountains and kill it. Take it. Man. Ah, I'll

966
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:28,840
Speaker 1: rub my hands on the on that hide and and

967
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 1: and thank god. I mean, and I'm not showboating here.

968
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:35,480
Speaker 1: I'm serious. If I'm when I'm by myself, I just

969
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:38,280
Speaker 1: even do that. I'm just like, man, this is an

970
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 1: incredible thing. And I think about the nobility. And again,

971
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 1: this is romantic, but I'm okay with it. You know,

972
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:48,960
Speaker 1: I believe that's a more noble death than that animal

973
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:52,400
Speaker 1: dying of distemper in a hole in a tree. Um,

974
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:57,360
Speaker 1: I I just do. And you know what about point

975
00:58:57,360 --> 00:59:00,400
Speaker 1: oh o? One per cent of the coon population is

976
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:04,000
Speaker 1: going to be harvested by a coon hunter. I mean,

977
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 1: like most of them are gonna die in another way.

978
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 1: And uh so for somebody to come and say that

979
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:13,240
Speaker 1: that's not okay for me to do that, it's just

980
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:17,560
Speaker 1: there's just no there's just really no baseline other than

981
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 1: like a false, hyper emotional, anthropomorphic argument that just doesn't

982
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:29,400
Speaker 1: fall in line with the last gazillion years of human history.

983
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:31,360
Speaker 1: I mean, because you know, this argument, we can take

984
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:34,600
Speaker 1: it way back. But but the further we go back

985
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:36,960
Speaker 1: that we're complicated, it gets, but even the more clear

986
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 1: it gets, you know. And I think what we've the

987
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 1: message that we've got to show people is that we're

988
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:45,160
Speaker 1: the good guys that love wildlife. Man. I mean, if

989
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 1: you would, and I see it in you, I see

990
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 1: it in massively throughout the hunting community, is that we

991
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:54,920
Speaker 1: love these animals. And I'm careful to the way I

992
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 1: use the word love there, you know, but like truly

993
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:02,640
Speaker 1: we value deeply, you deeply respect these animals. And it

994
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:07,040
Speaker 1: is our goal to utilize the while the commodities of

995
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 1: these animals in the most honorable way possible. And uh

996
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:15,560
Speaker 1: oh man, we could just go round and round. But really,

997
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:19,040
Speaker 1: good guy, you know, I agree, But I will I

998
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:21,920
Speaker 1: will throw another thing out there, which might sound a

999
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:29,320
Speaker 1: little radical. I love it, can't wait, Mark, But in

1000
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:32,320
Speaker 1: some ways, and this is this is not there might

1001
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:37,320
Speaker 1: there's I'm sure there are exceptions to this. But I

1002
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 1: can empathize with I imagine a number of the people

1003
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:45,800
Speaker 1: on the other side of this issue, because I think they,

1004
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:50,840
Speaker 1: in their own way, they love animals, they care about wildlife,

1005
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:53,960
Speaker 1: they care about wild places, and I empathize with them

1006
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:57,320
Speaker 1: on that. I do too. I care about animals. I

1007
01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:00,120
Speaker 1: love animals and wildlife and wild places. They're come going

1008
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:03,080
Speaker 1: at it from a just totally different perspective and from

1009
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:06,920
Speaker 1: a different set of experiences, so they understand it in

1010
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 1: a different way. And so I say that in that

1011
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:14,320
Speaker 1: it's kind of on me in each one of us

1012
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:16,840
Speaker 1: two Maybe that's not what I want to try to

1013
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:22,120
Speaker 1: say here. I think it's not productive to look at

1014
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:25,760
Speaker 1: these other people who might challenge us on hunting as

1015
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:30,320
Speaker 1: the bad guys, as advert as adversaries. Now of course,

1016
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:32,640
Speaker 1: like in some cases that they are. But at the

1017
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:36,200
Speaker 1: same time, sometimes these are people that really like wildlife,

1018
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:38,600
Speaker 1: they really like animals, and they want to make sure

1019
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:40,720
Speaker 1: wildlife's out there, and they want to make sure that

1020
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:44,920
Speaker 1: there's thriving populations, all the same things I want. So

1021
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:49,840
Speaker 1: it might be part of me wants to say, these

1022
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:53,320
Speaker 1: guys are assholes and they're driving me nuts, and I'm

1023
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:56,160
Speaker 1: sick and tired of these crazy emotional appeals they're making

1024
01:01:56,160 --> 01:01:57,960
Speaker 1: and the stuff they put out there that's you know,

1025
01:01:58,040 --> 01:02:01,120
Speaker 1: they're they're misrepresenting us, or they're twisting what we're doing,

1026
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:03,120
Speaker 1: or yeada, YadA, YadA. It would be really easy to

1027
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:05,960
Speaker 1: get angry and look at these people as they're the

1028
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:10,040
Speaker 1: bad guys. They're the bad guys. But is that productive

1029
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:13,720
Speaker 1: or would the more productive thing be to say, you

1030
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:18,680
Speaker 1: know what, the majority of you folks out there actually

1031
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:21,480
Speaker 1: see a lot of the same things the same way

1032
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 1: as I do. I want more, I want healthy populations

1033
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 1: of animals, I want healthy ecosystems. I want a B

1034
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:30,200
Speaker 1: C D. Maybe rather than calling you an asshole, maybe

1035
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:32,200
Speaker 1: I could just call you to the table and say, hey,

1036
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:35,760
Speaker 1: let's talk about this. Maybe maybe you're not a jackass.

1037
01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:38,520
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm not a jackass. Maybe we both have more

1038
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:43,280
Speaker 1: in common than we realize. Let's talk. I think that if, if,

1039
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:48,000
Speaker 1: if we can do that more often, maybe they can

1040
01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:51,120
Speaker 1: do that more often. Now, again, there's exceptions to all

1041
01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:55,000
Speaker 1: of this. I'm not saying there's not some real turds

1042
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:57,160
Speaker 1: out there floating in the punch bowl? Is my friend

1043
01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:01,880
Speaker 1: Steven until it would say, but but maybe maybe if

1044
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:03,480
Speaker 1: we look at it that way a little bit more

1045
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:08,000
Speaker 1: often will have more positive direction too. I don't know.

1046
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:09,840
Speaker 1: These are all the things that pop in my head

1047
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:11,200
Speaker 1: when I think about this stuff, But I think that's

1048
01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:13,640
Speaker 1: one piece of the puzzle too well. And I think

1049
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:15,920
Speaker 1: that's what I was trying to communicate when I was

1050
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:19,720
Speaker 1: talking about Shane Mahoney's comment about these most of these

1051
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:24,400
Speaker 1: people aren't our enemies. Um. You know, there's there's some

1052
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 1: radicalized people that would directly be you know, would directly be,

1053
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:32,120
Speaker 1: but there's a lot that aren't. There's a lot that

1054
01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:35,280
Speaker 1: I have the same ideas as us. And what you

1055
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:37,800
Speaker 1: just said is a can of worms, Mark because the

1056
01:03:38,680 --> 01:03:47,439
Speaker 1: climate of is deep polarization and a deepenability to give

1057
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:51,040
Speaker 1: any compromise because we're fearful that any compromise will lead

1058
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:56,160
Speaker 1: to a snowball effect of something really negative happening. And

1059
01:03:56,480 --> 01:03:58,600
Speaker 1: like you, you might hear me talking about guard at

1060
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:00,760
Speaker 1: the Gate and you say, well, Clay, you're you're saying

1061
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:07,840
Speaker 1: no compromise, And in many ways I am. But I'm

1062
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:10,320
Speaker 1: also saying that you know that we need to do

1063
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:14,640
Speaker 1: what you just said, which is which is build alliances

1064
01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:17,520
Speaker 1: with like minded people that want to have our goals

1065
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:19,960
Speaker 1: and try to tell our story to them, not to

1066
01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:22,640
Speaker 1: convince them to become us, but just to convince them

1067
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:26,080
Speaker 1: that we're on the same side as them. Um. And

1068
01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:28,680
Speaker 1: that's that's what some of these conservation groups are doing.

1069
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:31,840
Speaker 1: And there's there's just like in a battle, and and

1070
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:34,600
Speaker 1: not to use a violent example, but you know, there's

1071
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:41,520
Speaker 1: different strategies for for winning, you know. And sometimes we

1072
01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:43,160
Speaker 1: have to be real direct and put our foot in

1073
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:46,600
Speaker 1: the sand. Other times there is a place to. There

1074
01:04:46,680 --> 01:04:50,240
Speaker 1: is a place to. And I guess I'm not saying compromise.

1075
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:52,040
Speaker 1: I'm just saying tell our story and say, hey, we're

1076
01:04:52,040 --> 01:04:55,040
Speaker 1: after the same things. We're really after the same things.

1077
01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:58,520
Speaker 1: I think that that there's those two pieces of puzzle.

1078
01:04:58,600 --> 01:05:02,800
Speaker 1: There's this this story this pr and that's where maybe

1079
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:05,880
Speaker 1: not compromises the right word, but it's it's it's just

1080
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:08,480
Speaker 1: being open to talking about stuff. It's just sitting down

1081
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:11,080
Speaker 1: at the same table. We might we might still disagree,

1082
01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:14,520
Speaker 1: but let's not be disagreeable. How about that. Let's at

1083
01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:16,520
Speaker 1: least sit down the table and talk about this stuff

1084
01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:19,000
Speaker 1: and make sure you clearly understand what I'm talking about.

1085
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:22,080
Speaker 1: And hey, I'll listen to you. I might disagree with

1086
01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:23,880
Speaker 1: you on it, I might still say nope, this is

1087
01:05:23,880 --> 01:05:26,840
Speaker 1: the line the sand, but I'll hear you out. And

1088
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:30,400
Speaker 1: then hopefully, if you know, if we take the initiative

1089
01:05:30,400 --> 01:05:32,280
Speaker 1: there and are willing to put a hand across the

1090
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:35,080
Speaker 1: aisland and say hey, let's talk, let's listen, you know,

1091
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:38,640
Speaker 1: you're more apt to get similar treatment coming back. So

1092
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:40,840
Speaker 1: so I see that as part of the pie. And

1093
01:05:40,880 --> 01:05:43,640
Speaker 1: then the second pieces though exactly what you're talking about,

1094
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:47,000
Speaker 1: which is stand strong at the gate though, and and

1095
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:49,720
Speaker 1: I want to We've spent a lot of time about this,

1096
01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:53,440
Speaker 1: like weird soupy muddy mixture of how we talk about this,

1097
01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:56,240
Speaker 1: how we think about this, how do we defend what

1098
01:05:56,280 --> 01:05:58,160
Speaker 1: we do in certain ways? How do we tell that story?

1099
01:05:58,200 --> 01:06:00,800
Speaker 1: And like you said, sometimes that gets from antics. Sometimes

1100
01:06:00,800 --> 01:06:04,840
Speaker 1: this gets like deep. Um, maybe no one's listening anymore, Clay,

1101
01:06:04,880 --> 01:06:06,120
Speaker 1: I don't know. It might just be just you and

1102
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:09,800
Speaker 1: me money. But if there's anyone else still listening, I

1103
01:06:09,800 --> 01:06:13,360
Speaker 1: do want to get in some brass tacks, some actual

1104
01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:16,680
Speaker 1: actionable things we can do to guard the gate to

1105
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:19,280
Speaker 1: make sure that there isn't the shifting baseline, to make

1106
01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:23,320
Speaker 1: sure that they can't keep chipping away at things. Um

1107
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:25,600
Speaker 1: and and so I want to ask you to two things.

1108
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:29,240
Speaker 1: Number one, i'd love if you think this is relevant

1109
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:32,360
Speaker 1: to your action items. I'd love to explore the example

1110
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:35,720
Speaker 1: of what just happened in California. And Then number two,

1111
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:38,720
Speaker 1: I'd love to hear your key takeaways for how we

1112
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:41,040
Speaker 1: can guard the gate better. What kind of action we

1113
01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:44,840
Speaker 1: can take to make sure this thing isn't eroded slowly

1114
01:06:45,200 --> 01:06:49,440
Speaker 1: at Bye Bay by day by day. Um, yeah, I think, uh,

1115
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:51,040
Speaker 1: I think maybe a good way to do it, Mark

1116
01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:53,960
Speaker 1: is I've got five action points here that maybe we

1117
01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:56,920
Speaker 1: could just run through pretty quick, and then we could

1118
01:06:57,040 --> 01:06:59,919
Speaker 1: end on the California thing because it was a good

1119
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:05,640
Speaker 1: example of one part of the act the engagement points.

1120
01:07:05,680 --> 01:07:10,360
Speaker 1: Does that sound good to you? Okay. So a core

1121
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:13,360
Speaker 1: idea inside of Guard the Gate is is unity inside

1122
01:07:13,360 --> 01:07:17,880
Speaker 1: the hunting community. So one of the action points is

1123
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:22,080
Speaker 1: that as hunters, I think it's very important that we

1124
01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:26,720
Speaker 1: don't talk negatively about other types of legal hunting. It's

1125
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:30,040
Speaker 1: just that simple. If it's true that we've got nothing

1126
01:07:30,120 --> 01:07:33,720
Speaker 1: left to give, then the bow hunter in Wisconsin or

1127
01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:40,720
Speaker 1: Arkansas doesn't need to he he. I mean you can disagree,

1128
01:07:40,800 --> 01:07:46,160
Speaker 1: but like publicly talking about negatively about other forms of

1129
01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:50,280
Speaker 1: legal hunting, I just think degradates the whole system. Like,

1130
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:55,720
Speaker 1: just have empathy towards other people and realize that yeah, trapping, uh,

1131
01:07:55,960 --> 01:07:59,520
Speaker 1: bare hunt with hounds, squirrel hunting with dogs, uh, pheasant

1132
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:04,560
Speaker 1: hunting like that other thing is somebody's passion that it

1133
01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:07,080
Speaker 1: has a whole lot of things that are similar to you,

1134
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:10,800
Speaker 1: slightly different, but a whole lot that is similar. And

1135
01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:15,080
Speaker 1: so just take one for the team. Just take one

1136
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:18,600
Speaker 1: for the team. And like, I'm not gonna talk negatively

1137
01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:21,720
Speaker 1: about crossbow whitetail hunters. You know, I don't want to

1138
01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:25,879
Speaker 1: shoot to deal with the crossbow. Um. I mean whatever,

1139
01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:29,600
Speaker 1: I am going to promote that, I'm gonna love it

1140
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:32,960
Speaker 1: when somebody does it. I'm not secretly gonna tell my

1141
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:36,840
Speaker 1: kids that it's less of a thing to kill a

1142
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:39,599
Speaker 1: deer with a crossbow than it's like, because that happens

1143
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:44,040
Speaker 1: all the time. Can I I'm gonna go ahead. I

1144
01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:47,960
Speaker 1: am just being uh the challenger today. I'm sorry, but

1145
01:08:48,040 --> 01:08:50,519
Speaker 1: I but I I feel like you're someone who I

1146
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:53,519
Speaker 1: can have this conversation with and you can we can

1147
01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:56,400
Speaker 1: like hash out the things that I have to hash

1148
01:08:56,400 --> 01:08:58,160
Speaker 1: out with myself when I'm going on my runs in

1149
01:08:58,160 --> 01:08:59,640
Speaker 1: the morning. It's so much more fun to actually have

1150
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:04,120
Speaker 1: a real us and talked about this. Is there any

1151
01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:09,080
Speaker 1: line over which you would change your opinion on that? So,

1152
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:12,200
Speaker 1: is there anything that you would could be Is there

1153
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:14,360
Speaker 1: any way you could be convinced otherwise or is there

1154
01:09:14,400 --> 01:09:16,920
Speaker 1: some lyne in the sand that if someone crossed, is

1155
01:09:16,960 --> 01:09:19,519
Speaker 1: it simply is it legal versus illegal? Or is there

1156
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:23,080
Speaker 1: anything else that would change your stance on that? I

1157
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:25,960
Speaker 1: think I think from a high level statement, I would

1158
01:09:26,040 --> 01:09:28,559
Speaker 1: say that the chaff has been blown away from the

1159
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:31,880
Speaker 1: North American hunting. We found a model that works, and

1160
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:35,559
Speaker 1: so in anything that is illegal, I would stand behind.

1161
01:09:36,760 --> 01:09:41,160
Speaker 1: Like that's my general statement. Um, does that mean that

1162
01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:43,720
Speaker 1: we're not going to continue to fine tune things a

1163
01:09:43,760 --> 01:09:47,840
Speaker 1: little bit probably, but those things are gonna be the outliers.

1164
01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:51,240
Speaker 1: I would say, Mark, Um, and I grew up. Man,

1165
01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:54,400
Speaker 1: I'm I'm talking. You're talking to somebody that was deeply

1166
01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:57,360
Speaker 1: indoctrinated as a white tail bow hunter. I mean, my

1167
01:09:57,439 --> 01:10:00,360
Speaker 1: dad didn't even own a deer rifle. Uh my dad,

1168
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:04,559
Speaker 1: God love him, and so do I. He talked very

1169
01:10:04,600 --> 01:10:08,800
Speaker 1: negatively about crossbows, and he would today if he were here. Uh,

1170
01:10:08,840 --> 01:10:12,120
Speaker 1: you know, Like so I just see that as like, man,

1171
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:14,439
Speaker 1: we can't do that anymore. It's like, it's okay if

1172
01:10:14,439 --> 01:10:16,960
Speaker 1: we got used the crossbow and I I and we

1173
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:19,440
Speaker 1: could get into all the arguments of you know, management

1174
01:10:19,439 --> 01:10:22,760
Speaker 1: and liberalizing seasons and stuff. And I think we're just

1175
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:24,880
Speaker 1: in a new place where we gotta think about it different.

1176
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:28,040
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying crossbows are archery equipment, you know,

1177
01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:31,000
Speaker 1: like maybe we need different seasons. Like that's that's the

1178
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:32,880
Speaker 1: can of worms. I'm not trying to get into. But

1179
01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:35,599
Speaker 1: is that clear Mark what I just said? Yeah, Yeah,

1180
01:10:35,640 --> 01:10:38,479
Speaker 1: it is. Um. I mean it goes back to one

1181
01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:40,200
Speaker 1: of the things we talked about earlier, which is the

1182
01:10:40,720 --> 01:10:42,880
Speaker 1: all in the same boat versus punching holes in the boat.

1183
01:10:42,920 --> 01:10:45,240
Speaker 1: So I think there's an argument that some people might make,

1184
01:10:45,320 --> 01:10:47,280
Speaker 1: not with crossbows, but there might be something else where

1185
01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:50,479
Speaker 1: they could say, well, this thing is technically legal, but

1186
01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:54,080
Speaker 1: it's uh. Some might argue this thing is punching holes

1187
01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:56,840
Speaker 1: in the boat. So we've already kind of explored that

1188
01:10:56,840 --> 01:10:59,000
Speaker 1: we don't need to dive back into it. But but

1189
01:10:59,040 --> 01:11:01,080
Speaker 1: I agree with what you're saying is that we really

1190
01:11:01,080 --> 01:11:04,599
Speaker 1: need to in general, be together on this stuff, band

1191
01:11:04,680 --> 01:11:07,160
Speaker 1: together on this stuff, and and make sure that we

1192
01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:10,040
Speaker 1: where I think we can challenge each other. How about this,

1193
01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:14,920
Speaker 1: Let's all be unified and stick up for each other

1194
01:11:15,240 --> 01:11:19,360
Speaker 1: and and not talk negatively about each other. But I

1195
01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:22,320
Speaker 1: would argue there's room for us to challenge each other

1196
01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:27,000
Speaker 1: on how we tell our stories. So in that there's

1197
01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:30,360
Speaker 1: certain things like hey, maybe it's maybe you don't call

1198
01:11:30,439 --> 01:11:33,920
Speaker 1: someone up publicly about this thing, but hey, buddy, uh,

1199
01:11:34,800 --> 01:11:36,519
Speaker 1: did you think about how this might look to so

1200
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:39,200
Speaker 1: and so or what this might impact to so and

1201
01:11:39,240 --> 01:11:43,040
Speaker 1: so so. So maybe there's room for those conversations. So still,

1202
01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:46,120
Speaker 1: we've got to police ourselves, Mark, and I've I've said

1203
01:11:46,160 --> 01:11:48,519
Speaker 1: that before in the bear hunting community. I've preached it

1204
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:51,160
Speaker 1: to the Bear Hunting magazine people, is that the only

1205
01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:55,040
Speaker 1: way to really bring about social change is to is

1206
01:11:55,080 --> 01:11:58,559
Speaker 1: to talk to people like and particularly about social media

1207
01:11:58,640 --> 01:12:03,600
Speaker 1: stuff around uh bear hunting and stuff like, Yeah, you

1208
01:12:03,680 --> 01:12:06,040
Speaker 1: got to build a culture that like, it's not okay

1209
01:12:06,080 --> 01:12:10,120
Speaker 1: to do that, and that culture it's built by people

1210
01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:13,040
Speaker 1: confronting people. But I think if it's done in the

1211
01:12:13,160 --> 01:12:16,439
Speaker 1: right way, if the culture is right, then we all

1212
01:12:16,479 --> 01:12:18,519
Speaker 1: realize we're kind of on the same team, you know.

1213
01:12:18,600 --> 01:12:21,240
Speaker 1: And and so the general point number one is unity.

1214
01:12:21,479 --> 01:12:24,200
Speaker 1: And and absolutely it means that you're gonna have to

1215
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:28,000
Speaker 1: kind of take one for the team. And that is

1216
01:12:28,040 --> 01:12:29,960
Speaker 1: a hard thing for humans to do. But I'm just

1217
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:33,439
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, if we want this incredible lifestyle that

1218
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:36,880
Speaker 1: we all live to persist, we're gonna have to take

1219
01:12:36,920 --> 01:12:42,200
Speaker 1: one for the team. It means that if I don't

1220
01:12:42,200 --> 01:12:44,960
Speaker 1: like Antler point restrictions, I can't call the guys that

1221
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:48,519
Speaker 1: do want a p R s assholes, or I can't

1222
01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:54,360
Speaker 1: technicalities of that kind of law mark. And that's a

1223
01:12:54,360 --> 01:12:57,160
Speaker 1: good example. I mean, I'm talking about the more general,

1224
01:12:57,640 --> 01:13:00,640
Speaker 1: high level like is it okay to unt deer? Is

1225
01:13:00,680 --> 01:13:03,360
Speaker 1: it okay to use bait. Is it okay to you know,

1226
01:13:03,479 --> 01:13:06,360
Speaker 1: like getting into like management stuff like yeah, I mean

1227
01:13:06,400 --> 01:13:09,080
Speaker 1: we could challenge each other, but but I'm totally kidding.

1228
01:13:09,120 --> 01:13:12,439
Speaker 1: I'm a bar with you and that and that. Yes,

1229
01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:15,559
Speaker 1: like there's all these like there's so many different little

1230
01:13:15,600 --> 01:13:17,240
Speaker 1: things that people like to yell at each other about

1231
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:20,080
Speaker 1: and complain on Facebook about and bash people about and

1232
01:13:20,200 --> 01:13:24,120
Speaker 1: all of it. You know, let's let's let's remember on

1233
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:25,560
Speaker 1: the same team here. You might like to wear a

1234
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:27,559
Speaker 1: different color shirt than I do on certain days, you

1235
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:29,479
Speaker 1: might like do just a little bit differently, but come on,

1236
01:13:30,439 --> 01:13:32,439
Speaker 1: and the way I like what you said, We do

1237
01:13:32,560 --> 01:13:35,320
Speaker 1: have the right to to talk to people about the

1238
01:13:35,360 --> 01:13:38,400
Speaker 1: way they tell their story because everybody knows somebody that

1239
01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:42,080
Speaker 1: just does not portray the way we hunt in a

1240
01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:45,320
Speaker 1: good way. And and we do have to find ways

1241
01:13:45,360 --> 01:13:48,720
Speaker 1: to minimize that. But the main thing is that we

1242
01:13:48,720 --> 01:13:52,920
Speaker 1: we we replicate the good things, so you know, and

1243
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:55,720
Speaker 1: some of these other points deal with these things, mark um.

1244
01:13:56,720 --> 01:14:01,360
Speaker 1: The the second point that I had here was engaged

1245
01:14:01,439 --> 01:14:06,599
Speaker 1: political activism at times when it's appropriate, and uh and

1246
01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:10,760
Speaker 1: and boy it's a tough one, but there will be

1247
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:13,599
Speaker 1: times when you'll be called upond to sign a petition

1248
01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:15,400
Speaker 1: or do something that kind of got to go out

1249
01:14:15,400 --> 01:14:18,519
Speaker 1: of your way to to make your voice heard inside

1250
01:14:18,520 --> 01:14:23,519
Speaker 1: of this democratic society we live in that you may

1251
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:26,120
Speaker 1: you just decide, you know what I'm gonna I'm gonna

1252
01:14:26,120 --> 01:14:28,640
Speaker 1: take a stance on this, even if it doesn't affect me.

1253
01:14:28,680 --> 01:14:30,960
Speaker 1: And that's where we'll get into the California thing later,

1254
01:14:31,479 --> 01:14:34,599
Speaker 1: is that it was a bunch of people not from

1255
01:14:34,640 --> 01:14:40,200
Speaker 1: California that helped influence a potential bill in California. UM, So,

1256
01:14:41,040 --> 01:14:44,559
Speaker 1: at the right time and in the right way, engage

1257
01:14:44,600 --> 01:14:47,240
Speaker 1: political activism. But I don't even think that's the main thing.

1258
01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:50,599
Speaker 1: Mark um number three. And I'm gonna get to what

1259
01:14:50,640 --> 01:14:53,240
Speaker 1: I believe is the main thing. But so number three

1260
01:14:53,720 --> 01:14:57,240
Speaker 1: would be put your money where your mouth is and

1261
01:14:57,400 --> 01:15:05,160
Speaker 1: become lifelong members of organizations that are dedicated to truly

1262
01:15:06,160 --> 01:15:10,320
Speaker 1: engaging in these struggles in very productive ways. And there's

1263
01:15:10,360 --> 01:15:13,840
Speaker 1: a ton of them, and and and I have no

1264
01:15:13,920 --> 01:15:18,200
Speaker 1: affiliation with this group, but I I've vowed to say

1265
01:15:18,240 --> 01:15:20,240
Speaker 1: I think every hunter in North America ought to be

1266
01:15:20,280 --> 01:15:24,920
Speaker 1: a life member of the Sportsman's Alliance. Uh. They are

1267
01:15:25,000 --> 01:15:31,640
Speaker 1: an incredible group, UM and they are actively involved in

1268
01:15:32,400 --> 01:15:34,720
Speaker 1: fighting legislation. So like Clay nucom, we could get on

1269
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:36,960
Speaker 1: social media and say, hey, that's bad, I don't like that.

1270
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:40,839
Speaker 1: How much good that does? I don't know. These guys

1271
01:15:41,040 --> 01:15:46,360
Speaker 1: are dedicated. They know how political systems work, they know

1272
01:15:46,400 --> 01:15:48,720
Speaker 1: where to push the buttons, they know when to do

1273
01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:51,280
Speaker 1: things when not to do things. I mean, these guys

1274
01:15:51,320 --> 01:15:57,040
Speaker 1: are pros, and they work behind the scenes, and they're

1275
01:15:57,040 --> 01:15:59,320
Speaker 1: an incredible group. And there's a ton of them. I mean,

1276
01:15:59,400 --> 01:16:02,200
Speaker 1: you know, join a National Wild Turkey Federation, Rocky Mountaine

1277
01:16:02,200 --> 01:16:05,599
Speaker 1: Elk Foundation, National Deer Alliance, I mean, like all these groups.

1278
01:16:05,640 --> 01:16:09,880
Speaker 1: Like So, my point is every single one of us

1279
01:16:10,200 --> 01:16:15,439
Speaker 1: ought to be enrolled and active paining members of at

1280
01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:18,759
Speaker 1: least two or three sportsmen's groups and not just joining

1281
01:16:18,760 --> 01:16:21,000
Speaker 1: for a year and forgetting about it, but just saying like, hey,

1282
01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:24,639
Speaker 1: I'm gonna dedicate. I'm just gonna this is just something

1283
01:16:24,680 --> 01:16:27,360
Speaker 1: I do. I just stay a member of this organization,

1284
01:16:27,439 --> 01:16:30,479
Speaker 1: support them financially. We gotta put our money where our

1285
01:16:30,479 --> 01:16:36,040
Speaker 1: mouth is. You ever thought about starting a bear hunting organization? Um,

1286
01:16:36,080 --> 01:16:38,640
Speaker 1: It's been brought up many many times, Mark, and I

1287
01:16:38,720 --> 01:16:42,280
Speaker 1: just don't I don't know that I'm the man for it. Uh,

1288
01:16:42,560 --> 01:16:48,360
Speaker 1: it would. Uh. I mean, yes, I have, but it's

1289
01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:50,360
Speaker 1: a it's a tough one and I and I'm not.

1290
01:16:51,960 --> 01:16:54,840
Speaker 1: I wonder why there isn't one yet there's not enough

1291
01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:57,400
Speaker 1: hunter Well, there there is, there is, there's Uh. The

1292
01:16:57,680 --> 01:17:00,479
Speaker 1: Western Bear Foundation is a great organization and they would

1293
01:17:00,479 --> 01:17:02,719
Speaker 1: be one that would be on my list of great

1294
01:17:02,840 --> 01:17:05,880
Speaker 1: organizations to be members of. UM. They're a little bit

1295
01:17:05,960 --> 01:17:09,840
Speaker 1: more Western focused, so it's not a national bear organizations. Man.

1296
01:17:09,960 --> 01:17:14,439
Speaker 1: There's some great state bear organizations. Michigan Bear Hunters. Man,

1297
01:17:14,479 --> 01:17:16,280
Speaker 1: if you're not even if you're not in Michigan, you

1298
01:17:16,280 --> 01:17:18,760
Speaker 1: should be a member of those guys. I like that group,

1299
01:17:18,840 --> 01:17:22,720
Speaker 1: Michigan Bear Hunters, Wisconsin Bear Hunters. UM. A lot to

1300
01:17:22,760 --> 01:17:25,240
Speaker 1: be learned from the way they run their organizations and

1301
01:17:25,320 --> 01:17:30,720
Speaker 1: what they do. Really smart guys, really unified organized UM.

1302
01:17:31,760 --> 01:17:35,960
Speaker 1: And that's a whole another podcast. But but joined sportsman's groups.

1303
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:38,040
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the simple thing. So Number one market

1304
01:17:38,080 --> 01:17:41,240
Speaker 1: is unity. Unity inside the hunting community. Don't talk bad

1305
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:43,519
Speaker 1: about somebody just because you don't like the way they

1306
01:17:43,600 --> 01:17:45,320
Speaker 1: do something. Just take one for the team. Be a

1307
01:17:45,360 --> 01:17:48,519
Speaker 1: big boy, pull your pants up and just like be like, hey,

1308
01:17:48,920 --> 01:17:52,280
Speaker 1: this guy, I probably have a ton in common with

1309
01:17:52,360 --> 01:17:56,639
Speaker 1: this guy except for this one little disagreement. Unity Number two.

1310
01:17:56,720 --> 01:18:03,840
Speaker 1: Engage political activism when called upon. Number three. Join sportsman's

1311
01:18:03,840 --> 01:18:09,040
Speaker 1: groups that represent what you want, and man, shameless plug

1312
01:18:09,160 --> 01:18:11,040
Speaker 1: for Sportsman's Alliance. Everybody ought to be a member of

1313
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:15,040
Speaker 1: sports Sportsman's Alliance. And then, man, here here's the biggest one. Mark,

1314
01:18:15,560 --> 01:18:18,040
Speaker 1: here's the biggest one. And it's it's one that people

1315
01:18:18,160 --> 01:18:21,400
Speaker 1: might go, what, But man, we got to have a

1316
01:18:21,640 --> 01:18:27,400
Speaker 1: massive dose of self introspection. Like if I am proclaiming

1317
01:18:28,479 --> 01:18:33,320
Speaker 1: that we need to, you know, clean up the hunting

1318
01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:39,679
Speaker 1: community and and clarify our narrative and you know, improve

1319
01:18:39,760 --> 01:18:46,160
Speaker 1: our public perception, those are external things that reflect something internal.

1320
01:18:47,280 --> 01:18:50,360
Speaker 1: And I have to make sure that Clay Nukem is

1321
01:18:50,600 --> 01:18:54,400
Speaker 1: living the values behind closed doors that I'm proclaiming, because

1322
01:18:54,439 --> 01:18:57,240
Speaker 1: there's one thing that human nature will never refute, and

1323
01:18:57,280 --> 01:19:02,000
Speaker 1: that is authenticity. Man, everybody and their brother can tell

1324
01:19:02,120 --> 01:19:05,000
Speaker 1: when somebody is a fake, when somebody is a liar,

1325
01:19:05,240 --> 01:19:09,000
Speaker 1: when somebody is not representing what they say they are.

1326
01:19:09,920 --> 01:19:13,679
Speaker 1: And we have to clean the inside of the cup

1327
01:19:13,840 --> 01:19:18,479
Speaker 1: first to make the outside clean. So I I challenge everybody,

1328
01:19:18,520 --> 01:19:22,639
Speaker 1: and I challenge myself that if Clay Newcomb talks about

1329
01:19:22,640 --> 01:19:25,519
Speaker 1: the utilization of bear meat and how we've got to

1330
01:19:25,600 --> 01:19:27,439
Speaker 1: do better at telling the world that we use our

1331
01:19:27,520 --> 01:19:29,720
Speaker 1: bear meat. Man, I got to use my bear meat.

1332
01:19:30,439 --> 01:19:33,720
Speaker 1: I've got to. I've got to really value it. I've

1333
01:19:33,800 --> 01:19:37,360
Speaker 1: got to, you know. And I've not done everything perfect

1334
01:19:37,560 --> 01:19:40,200
Speaker 1: at all. Like if I talk about adherence to game

1335
01:19:40,280 --> 01:19:43,400
Speaker 1: laws and how game laws are the salvation of North

1336
01:19:43,439 --> 01:19:46,760
Speaker 1: American wildlife, and by god, I better obey the game

1337
01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:49,759
Speaker 1: lass and I better make sure that anybody that's around

1338
01:19:49,840 --> 01:19:53,080
Speaker 1: me is obeying the game laws. Um, you know, clean

1339
01:19:53,240 --> 01:19:55,680
Speaker 1: the inside of the cup. If we want hunters to

1340
01:19:55,840 --> 01:19:59,799
Speaker 1: be if we're saying that this lifestyle is worth preserving

1341
01:20:00,680 --> 01:20:04,639
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, then we better be walking the walk.

1342
01:20:05,160 --> 01:20:07,599
Speaker 1: And man, I don't say that from like a preachy place.

1343
01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:10,519
Speaker 1: I say that truly from a place of I want

1344
01:20:10,560 --> 01:20:12,679
Speaker 1: to look at my life and find the places where

1345
01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:18,240
Speaker 1: my proclamation does not line up with my my actual activity,

1346
01:20:18,320 --> 01:20:22,160
Speaker 1: and there are places. And clean the inside of the cup,

1347
01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:25,160
Speaker 1: because if hunters, if we're saying we're the good guys,

1348
01:20:25,240 --> 01:20:28,599
Speaker 1: we've really got to be the good guys. Amen. Amen

1349
01:20:28,680 --> 01:20:33,000
Speaker 1: to that. Yeah, So that's that's important. And then the

1350
01:20:33,240 --> 01:20:35,719
Speaker 1: fifth thing I have down here, Mark, is to become

1351
01:20:35,800 --> 01:20:38,280
Speaker 1: a herald. A herald would be you know, like a

1352
01:20:38,520 --> 01:20:44,880
Speaker 1: like a mouthpiece. And uh yeah, and and and I

1353
01:20:45,000 --> 01:20:48,280
Speaker 1: think a lot of these ideas of what we've talked about,

1354
01:20:48,360 --> 01:20:50,760
Speaker 1: like like like the science behind the North American wild

1355
01:20:50,800 --> 01:20:54,720
Speaker 1: of wild life conservation, uh, talking about using the commodities

1356
01:20:54,760 --> 01:20:57,640
Speaker 1: of wildlife. Talking about the way that we you know,

1357
01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:02,599
Speaker 1: healthy organic meat that's way more environmentally sustainable than going

1358
01:21:02,680 --> 01:21:05,439
Speaker 1: to the grocery store and buying a beefsteak. Like some

1359
01:21:05,560 --> 01:21:08,640
Speaker 1: of these things just we just need to practice. Like

1360
01:21:08,800 --> 01:21:11,360
Speaker 1: some people hear us talk, they hear you talk about

1361
01:21:11,400 --> 01:21:13,160
Speaker 1: white tail hunting, and they go, man, how does the

1362
01:21:13,360 --> 01:21:19,160
Speaker 1: guy's brilliant? He can that? I bet they are. I

1363
01:21:19,240 --> 01:21:22,439
Speaker 1: know they are. It's because you you talk about it

1364
01:21:22,520 --> 01:21:27,000
Speaker 1: every day. Mark. I mean like it didn't just come naturally.

1365
01:21:27,360 --> 01:21:29,600
Speaker 1: I mean there was some natural but you see what

1366
01:21:29,640 --> 01:21:33,120
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like I know, my the narratives that I

1367
01:21:33,320 --> 01:21:38,920
Speaker 1: now very clearly can express ten years ago I couldn't.

1368
01:21:39,080 --> 01:21:42,479
Speaker 1: And it's come by practice, It's come by thinking about it.

1369
01:21:43,040 --> 01:21:46,920
Speaker 1: And and and and this is true in every sector

1370
01:21:47,240 --> 01:21:50,360
Speaker 1: of our lives, is that there was a time for

1371
01:21:50,760 --> 01:21:52,679
Speaker 1: like white tail hunting. There was a time when nobody

1372
01:21:52,840 --> 01:21:55,120
Speaker 1: knew anything about white to hunting in the early eighties,

1373
01:21:55,760 --> 01:22:00,280
Speaker 1: Like actual scientific knowledge of how to hunt why til

1374
01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:03,960
Speaker 1: deer was like relatively small. Today, my son who's fifteen

1375
01:22:04,000 --> 01:22:07,000
Speaker 1: years old and one probably knows more about white tail

1376
01:22:07,040 --> 01:22:10,720
Speaker 1: biology than like a pretty good bow hunter did in

1377
01:22:10,760 --> 01:22:13,400
Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies. I'm not saying how to kill one,

1378
01:22:13,479 --> 01:22:15,040
Speaker 1: but just like if you were to take a test

1379
01:22:15,560 --> 01:22:17,519
Speaker 1: and say, when is the peak of the white tail rut?

1380
01:22:17,600 --> 01:22:20,400
Speaker 1: What does white tail gestation? What do antlers need to grow?

1381
01:22:20,520 --> 01:22:24,240
Speaker 1: What you know? Yauda, YadA ya. The narrative got stronger

1382
01:22:24,320 --> 01:22:26,920
Speaker 1: as people were educated. That's what we need, Like, we

1383
01:22:27,040 --> 01:22:29,840
Speaker 1: just need people that understand bear hunting. They understand why

1384
01:22:29,880 --> 01:22:32,240
Speaker 1: we baited bears, They understand why we run hounds, they

1385
01:22:32,360 --> 01:22:36,240
Speaker 1: understand why we need predator management, they understand meso predators.

1386
01:22:36,280 --> 01:22:41,240
Speaker 1: They understand, Um, you know just that of course we

1387
01:22:41,280 --> 01:22:44,479
Speaker 1: eat bear. We actually ulize that more than almost any

1388
01:22:44,520 --> 01:22:47,720
Speaker 1: other big game animal we take. So the narrative has

1389
01:22:47,760 --> 01:22:50,760
Speaker 1: got to get stronger. And the more people here people talk,

1390
01:22:51,280 --> 01:22:54,280
Speaker 1: the more it's gonna be readily on people's tongues. Man,

1391
01:22:54,600 --> 01:22:57,280
Speaker 1: all the time, I mean and you and I being

1392
01:22:57,320 --> 01:22:59,439
Speaker 1: an outdoor media we probably get it more. But like

1393
01:23:00,960 --> 01:23:05,960
Speaker 1: you know, very often, very often people inside of our

1394
01:23:06,040 --> 01:23:08,840
Speaker 1: circle of friends who are not hunters. And there's lots

1395
01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:11,519
Speaker 1: of them that, you know, parents of kids that my

1396
01:23:11,680 --> 01:23:15,400
Speaker 1: kids go to school with. You know, I just have

1397
01:23:15,560 --> 01:23:20,280
Speaker 1: these little I talked to them, you know, Um, and

1398
01:23:20,360 --> 01:23:23,920
Speaker 1: I'm pretty intentional about the way that I portray what

1399
01:23:24,040 --> 01:23:27,360
Speaker 1: we do because I want them to understand and uh

1400
01:23:27,800 --> 01:23:31,880
Speaker 1: so to become a herald. Um, we we've got to

1401
01:23:32,600 --> 01:23:34,640
Speaker 1: We've got to tell our story, you know. And and

1402
01:23:34,760 --> 01:23:37,320
Speaker 1: that goes that's not just outdoor media people. That's the

1403
01:23:37,400 --> 01:23:40,560
Speaker 1: guy that will never be on outdoor media, but just

1404
01:23:41,120 --> 01:23:44,960
Speaker 1: his circle of friends, his influence. He is portraying a

1405
01:23:45,160 --> 01:23:47,760
Speaker 1: positive light. You know, there was a time Mark and boy,

1406
01:23:47,800 --> 01:23:51,439
Speaker 1: I'm getting romantic deep romanticism here, but there was a time.

1407
01:23:52,000 --> 01:23:54,400
Speaker 1: There was a time when hunters were known, there were

1408
01:23:54,479 --> 01:23:57,360
Speaker 1: men of renown in their communities. I mean, like I

1409
01:23:57,479 --> 01:24:00,519
Speaker 1: talked with the lead historian of the Ozarks named Brooks

1410
01:24:00,560 --> 01:24:04,760
Speaker 1: Blevin's I love the guy, and um, you know, bear

1411
01:24:04,880 --> 01:24:07,640
Speaker 1: hunters were the rock stars of the eight hundreds. They

1412
01:24:07,800 --> 01:24:10,519
Speaker 1: truly were like they were the sports stars. They were

1413
01:24:10,720 --> 01:24:14,680
Speaker 1: like the they were the celebrities because you know, there

1414
01:24:14,720 --> 01:24:17,760
Speaker 1: were no there were no sports teams, there was no

1415
01:24:18,040 --> 01:24:22,400
Speaker 1: social media. These guys were known as leaders in their

1416
01:24:22,479 --> 01:24:27,639
Speaker 1: communities because of their hunting prowess. And there's no real

1417
01:24:27,760 --> 01:24:30,840
Speaker 1: direct correlation here, but I'm just saying sometimes I think

1418
01:24:30,880 --> 01:24:32,800
Speaker 1: when people think of hunters, they just think of these

1419
01:24:33,120 --> 01:24:36,640
Speaker 1: you know, they think of a really negative thing. I

1420
01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:39,120
Speaker 1: think we could change that, and I think that's what

1421
01:24:39,920 --> 01:24:42,639
Speaker 1: what we're on track to do with just I mean,

1422
01:24:42,880 --> 01:24:45,720
Speaker 1: there's not a whole lot of sectors of society that

1423
01:24:45,840 --> 01:24:48,720
Speaker 1: are really well educated. Like what if you could just

1424
01:24:48,800 --> 01:24:51,400
Speaker 1: pick a guy out of the crowd that had a

1425
01:24:51,479 --> 01:24:55,120
Speaker 1: hunting license and he was just full of information, just

1426
01:24:55,360 --> 01:24:59,479
Speaker 1: full of just like man North American modle of wildlife

1427
01:24:59,520 --> 01:25:01,240
Speaker 1: conservator and doubt a douta dout it, you know, just

1428
01:25:01,560 --> 01:25:05,280
Speaker 1: like like like like we just permeated because we're so

1429
01:25:05,439 --> 01:25:08,439
Speaker 1: passionate about this, because this this lifestyle that we lead

1430
01:25:08,640 --> 01:25:11,680
Speaker 1: is so essential to the human existence, which it is,

1431
01:25:12,000 --> 01:25:15,840
Speaker 1: like I believe that hunting is. I mean, it's just

1432
01:25:15,960 --> 01:25:18,360
Speaker 1: it's just so it's such a primitive thing. It's not

1433
01:25:18,520 --> 01:25:22,040
Speaker 1: like playing tennis. I'm sorry, it's not. Uh, it's it's

1434
01:25:22,080 --> 01:25:25,559
Speaker 1: such a primitive human thing that is affected so much

1435
01:25:25,640 --> 01:25:32,639
Speaker 1: of our deep human history. Man, I want to fight

1436
01:25:32,720 --> 01:25:36,160
Speaker 1: for this thing. When I say fight, I mean I

1437
01:25:36,320 --> 01:25:38,800
Speaker 1: want to be educated. I want to see this last

1438
01:25:39,000 --> 01:25:42,320
Speaker 1: I want to see this persist. I want people to

1439
01:25:42,479 --> 01:25:46,760
Speaker 1: be spokesman and representatives of hunting in an honorable way.

1440
01:25:47,120 --> 01:25:50,960
Speaker 1: That's like, deeply, deeply valuable to me. And I think

1441
01:25:51,040 --> 01:25:53,560
Speaker 1: we can do it. I think we can do it.

1442
01:25:53,720 --> 01:25:55,320
Speaker 1: Like there's a lot of people that would have a

1443
01:25:55,400 --> 01:26:02,400
Speaker 1: pretty grim look at hunting man, not I think we're

1444
01:26:02,520 --> 01:26:05,800
Speaker 1: I think we're on the an upward trajectory and we

1445
01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:08,479
Speaker 1: gotta be we gotta be smarter, we gotta be wiser,

1446
01:26:08,560 --> 01:26:11,880
Speaker 1: we gotta be more unified, and we can do it.

1447
01:26:12,520 --> 01:26:14,720
Speaker 1: I think we can do it. Mark, I'm right there

1448
01:26:14,800 --> 01:26:17,320
Speaker 1: with you, and I think if we can follow this, uh,

1449
01:26:18,120 --> 01:26:21,040
Speaker 1: this roadmap you you spelled out for us, I think

1450
01:26:21,080 --> 01:26:24,280
Speaker 1: that's the way to do it. I Uh, I'm glad

1451
01:26:24,320 --> 01:26:27,680
Speaker 1: we're able to have this conversation. This is it's one

1452
01:26:27,720 --> 01:26:32,760
Speaker 1: of those things that at the surface seems simple, but

1453
01:26:32,880 --> 01:26:36,400
Speaker 1: if you dig down, it becomes much more complicated. As

1454
01:26:36,479 --> 01:26:40,040
Speaker 1: I think we've seen throughout this conversation, as we dove

1455
01:26:40,080 --> 01:26:43,080
Speaker 1: into these different things and conflicting opinions and different ways

1456
01:26:43,120 --> 01:26:45,320
Speaker 1: to look at stuff, and and all that's to say

1457
01:26:45,400 --> 01:26:49,640
Speaker 1: that we have to be educated, and we have to

1458
01:26:49,800 --> 01:26:53,519
Speaker 1: practice both thinking and talking about these things and walking

1459
01:26:53,600 --> 01:26:56,920
Speaker 1: the walk. And Uh, if if we do that, and

1460
01:26:57,000 --> 01:27:01,040
Speaker 1: if we can spread that this game play in, I think,

1461
01:27:01,439 --> 01:27:04,880
Speaker 1: like you just said, the future is bright. So Uh,

1462
01:27:05,680 --> 01:27:08,519
Speaker 1: I wanted to to spend a lot of time exploring

1463
01:27:08,560 --> 01:27:11,519
Speaker 1: the California example. We're running not time, so we can't.

1464
01:27:11,760 --> 01:27:14,360
Speaker 1: But I'm not I'm not upset about that because we've

1465
01:27:14,439 --> 01:27:16,960
Speaker 1: we've we've covered plenty of really good stuff. Can you

1466
01:27:17,080 --> 01:27:22,560
Speaker 1: give me, like the the two minute rundown of California

1467
01:27:22,840 --> 01:27:25,000
Speaker 1: because I think I think it ends us in a

1468
01:27:25,120 --> 01:27:30,040
Speaker 1: place of of positivity. It shows us an example of

1469
01:27:30,080 --> 01:27:34,160
Speaker 1: how we can do these things and have a positive outcomes. Um,

1470
01:27:34,600 --> 01:27:37,560
Speaker 1: give me this victory story to wrap us up. So

1471
01:27:37,680 --> 01:27:40,800
Speaker 1: there was a senator in California that proposed an all

1472
01:27:40,920 --> 01:27:44,400
Speaker 1: out ban on California bear hunting, which is a fairly

1473
01:27:44,520 --> 01:27:48,040
Speaker 1: unprecedented thing. Uh. Most of the time these groups go

1474
01:27:48,160 --> 01:27:51,680
Speaker 1: after go after different parts of hunting, you know, like

1475
01:27:51,880 --> 01:27:57,720
Speaker 1: like for example, in Colorado, they outlawed hunting over bait

1476
01:27:58,000 --> 01:28:00,240
Speaker 1: and hunting with hounds, but you can still hunt. Ar's

1477
01:28:00,280 --> 01:28:03,000
Speaker 1: there this California, and California has done the same thing.

1478
01:28:03,000 --> 01:28:04,680
Speaker 1: At one time you could hunt hat with hounds. At

1479
01:28:04,720 --> 01:28:07,720
Speaker 1: one time you could bait. Now you can't. They that

1480
01:28:07,920 --> 01:28:11,320
Speaker 1: this was an all out band. It was portrayed as

1481
01:28:11,680 --> 01:28:15,080
Speaker 1: that's in trophy hunting in California. I can't believe in

1482
01:28:15,880 --> 01:28:19,040
Speaker 1: one that this still, this barbaric practice still exists. That

1483
01:28:19,160 --> 01:28:22,560
Speaker 1: was the way it was portrayed. The bill was proposed,

1484
01:28:22,640 --> 01:28:27,720
Speaker 1: it was called SP two five two, and because it

1485
01:28:27,800 --> 01:28:30,479
Speaker 1: was it was just proposed, so it wasn't actually in action,

1486
01:28:30,720 --> 01:28:33,400
Speaker 1: and and you know it wasn't like in front of

1487
01:28:33,520 --> 01:28:38,840
Speaker 1: the the legislators, but it was proclaimed that it would be. Well,

1488
01:28:39,720 --> 01:28:43,719
Speaker 1: the senator put up this put up this little picture

1489
01:28:43,880 --> 01:28:50,360
Speaker 1: on Instagram, and this guy I saw where he had

1490
01:28:50,520 --> 01:28:52,760
Speaker 1: like most of his posts marked that he would make

1491
01:28:52,800 --> 01:28:55,879
Speaker 1: on his Instagram might get between fifty and a hundred comments,

1492
01:28:55,960 --> 01:28:58,760
Speaker 1: like if you just looked back at his stuff. I

1493
01:28:58,920 --> 01:29:02,639
Speaker 1: think after about a twenty four hour period, he had

1494
01:29:02,760 --> 01:29:10,519
Speaker 1: twelve hundred comments on that one post, and about of

1495
01:29:10,640 --> 01:29:15,120
Speaker 1: them were hunters coming in and saying this bill is

1496
01:29:15,200 --> 01:29:18,360
Speaker 1: not based upon science. This is not a good bill

1497
01:29:18,520 --> 01:29:20,560
Speaker 1: for the state. This is not a good bill for

1498
01:29:20,680 --> 01:29:26,400
Speaker 1: bear hunting. And man, it was awesome. Like a few

1499
01:29:26,840 --> 01:29:31,640
Speaker 1: outdoor people that had influence came in and were the

1500
01:29:31,720 --> 01:29:34,800
Speaker 1: first to start making comments and then the world just

1501
01:29:35,000 --> 01:29:39,280
Speaker 1: flocked to that really did. And uh, within two days

1502
01:29:39,360 --> 01:29:43,320
Speaker 1: the guy withdrew the bill and I I speculate on

1503
01:29:43,400 --> 01:29:48,439
Speaker 1: what happened in that he had no idea that people

1504
01:29:48,560 --> 01:29:51,640
Speaker 1: outside of his jurisdiction, which in his jurisdiction, which was

1505
01:29:51,880 --> 01:29:55,800
Speaker 1: I think in the San Francisco area. Um, he felt

1506
01:29:55,840 --> 01:29:58,000
Speaker 1: like this was just gonna be a lob pitch, you know,

1507
01:29:58,320 --> 01:30:01,639
Speaker 1: to his base and they would be, oh yeah, Well

1508
01:30:02,520 --> 01:30:06,920
Speaker 1: he was met with stiff opposition and they dropped the

1509
01:30:06,960 --> 01:30:11,679
Speaker 1: bill and it you know, it was a small victory

1510
01:30:11,760 --> 01:30:14,639
Speaker 1: if we're being honest in some ways. In other ways,

1511
01:30:14,680 --> 01:30:17,960
Speaker 1: it was a big victory because we saw what would

1512
01:30:18,000 --> 01:30:21,080
Speaker 1: happen if the if the whole, if the whole of

1513
01:30:21,200 --> 01:30:24,519
Speaker 1: the hunting community united, which was great. There were guys

1514
01:30:24,600 --> 01:30:27,840
Speaker 1: on there saying, I'm not a bear hunter, but this

1515
01:30:28,040 --> 01:30:32,719
Speaker 1: is bad for bears. You know, people that never hunted

1516
01:30:32,800 --> 01:30:35,680
Speaker 1: California never will. So it was a great example of

1517
01:30:35,840 --> 01:30:42,080
Speaker 1: unification and uh, man, there's so many other things. That's

1518
01:30:42,160 --> 01:30:46,600
Speaker 1: the hard part. Since that time, mark my inboxes of

1519
01:30:46,880 --> 01:30:52,120
Speaker 1: of of other bad stuff happening across the country. And uh,

1520
01:30:52,560 --> 01:30:55,280
Speaker 1: but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about

1521
01:30:55,320 --> 01:30:58,720
Speaker 1: this one. And he dropped the bill drop. I think

1522
01:30:58,800 --> 01:31:01,040
Speaker 1: you missed one thing in your would map or in

1523
01:31:01,120 --> 01:31:04,679
Speaker 1: your action plan, and I think that is and maybe

1524
01:31:04,800 --> 01:31:06,720
Speaker 1: maybe you had this stuck inside of one of your

1525
01:31:06,760 --> 01:31:09,599
Speaker 1: five rules, but it was it could probably be talented

1526
01:31:09,640 --> 01:31:13,200
Speaker 1: into the being engaged. But it's staying informed. It's it's

1527
01:31:13,479 --> 01:31:17,519
Speaker 1: it's it's really easy for these things too, to just

1528
01:31:17,760 --> 01:31:20,920
Speaker 1: happen without most people knowing about it, unless you know

1529
01:31:21,040 --> 01:31:23,400
Speaker 1: someone who had a great, big following, you know, share

1530
01:31:23,479 --> 01:31:25,040
Speaker 1: that oh this is out there, and then all of

1531
01:31:25,080 --> 01:31:26,720
Speaker 1: a sudden it got attention and we're able to do

1532
01:31:26,880 --> 01:31:28,360
Speaker 1: something about it. But it is a little bit on

1533
01:31:28,479 --> 01:31:31,759
Speaker 1: each one of us individually too, as best as possible

1534
01:31:32,439 --> 01:31:35,759
Speaker 1: stay up on things going on. And maybe that's achieved

1535
01:31:35,800 --> 01:31:39,400
Speaker 1: by joining these different conservation organizations. Maybe that's achieved by

1536
01:31:40,720 --> 01:31:43,160
Speaker 1: just you know, reading through what's happening in your state

1537
01:31:43,200 --> 01:31:45,360
Speaker 1: every once in a while, or checking in with someone

1538
01:31:45,400 --> 01:31:46,960
Speaker 1: who does this for a living or whatever. It is.

1539
01:31:47,000 --> 01:31:48,960
Speaker 1: I don't know what the solution is there, but but

1540
01:31:49,120 --> 01:31:50,400
Speaker 1: it is a little bit on each of us to

1541
01:31:50,560 --> 01:31:52,720
Speaker 1: to try to stay educated on this too so you

1542
01:31:52,800 --> 01:31:56,560
Speaker 1: can become engaged when needed. Um. But yeah, man, this

1543
01:31:56,680 --> 01:31:59,160
Speaker 1: is this was a great example of the hunting community

1544
01:31:59,200 --> 01:32:02,559
Speaker 1: as a whole railing around something that maybe wouldn't impact

1545
01:32:02,880 --> 01:32:06,200
Speaker 1: a lot of those people directly immediately, but but we

1546
01:32:07,240 --> 01:32:09,760
Speaker 1: rallied around it and and we're able to squash it

1547
01:32:09,880 --> 01:32:12,200
Speaker 1: before balloons into something that all of a sudden had

1548
01:32:12,200 --> 01:32:14,960
Speaker 1: a momentum of its own in the other direction. So

1549
01:32:15,680 --> 01:32:17,240
Speaker 1: I think it's a I think it's a great example

1550
01:32:17,280 --> 01:32:18,920
Speaker 1: of what we can do when we when we do

1551
01:32:19,080 --> 01:32:22,280
Speaker 1: those things you talked about, and um, I just want

1552
01:32:22,360 --> 01:32:24,600
Speaker 1: to make sure we make a trend of that and

1553
01:32:24,760 --> 01:32:29,080
Speaker 1: not the opposite. So this has been great, Clay. I've

1554
01:32:29,640 --> 01:32:33,160
Speaker 1: I've really enjoyed this. Um. It makes me. It makes

1555
01:32:33,240 --> 01:32:35,120
Speaker 1: me just want to have you on the podcast every

1556
01:32:35,160 --> 01:32:37,519
Speaker 1: week to talk through the tough questions I have in

1557
01:32:37,640 --> 01:32:40,559
Speaker 1: my own mind and you can be my my sounding

1558
01:32:40,680 --> 01:32:44,120
Speaker 1: board as as I examined all the other questions. Um.

1559
01:32:45,040 --> 01:32:48,240
Speaker 1: But for people that want to stay up to date

1560
01:32:48,320 --> 01:32:50,080
Speaker 1: on the new stuff you've got coming down the line

1561
01:32:50,120 --> 01:32:53,600
Speaker 1: the podcast, all your other content, where should people be

1562
01:32:54,000 --> 01:32:57,559
Speaker 1: looking for that? Yeah, so you know, all my content

1563
01:32:57,720 --> 01:32:59,280
Speaker 1: right now is going to be on the metator dot

1564
01:32:59,320 --> 01:33:05,080
Speaker 1: com and stay tuned for very soon. I mean, I'm

1565
01:33:05,120 --> 01:33:07,559
Speaker 1: just gonna I've been saying very soon for a long time, Mark,

1566
01:33:07,680 --> 01:33:12,080
Speaker 1: but sometime, let's just say in the next two months.

1567
01:33:12,439 --> 01:33:15,520
Speaker 1: I think that's fair. You're gonna see a new podcast

1568
01:33:16,040 --> 01:33:19,160
Speaker 1: coming out from me either that I'm going to be uh,

1569
01:33:19,280 --> 01:33:23,280
Speaker 1: the host of. And it's gonna be really innovative podcast. Mark. Um,

1570
01:33:23,680 --> 01:33:26,240
Speaker 1: it's gonna be a ton of fun. It's gonna be different.

1571
01:33:26,880 --> 01:33:29,439
Speaker 1: I really think a broad base of people is gonna

1572
01:33:29,520 --> 01:33:32,240
Speaker 1: enjoy it. It's not about bear hunting, it's not about

1573
01:33:33,560 --> 01:33:36,240
Speaker 1: guarding the gate necessarily. I mean, there'll be components of

1574
01:33:36,320 --> 01:33:38,400
Speaker 1: it that will be but I think it's the kind

1575
01:33:38,439 --> 01:33:43,400
Speaker 1: of podcast that you'd want to kick on just even

1576
01:33:43,479 --> 01:33:49,240
Speaker 1: with your non hunting friends. Um. But it's it's and

1577
01:33:49,320 --> 01:33:51,080
Speaker 1: I just can't give too much away about it, but

1578
01:33:51,080 --> 01:33:54,040
Speaker 1: it's gonna be a documentary style podcast, kind of an

1579
01:33:54,080 --> 01:34:00,200
Speaker 1: efficient listen um and uh gonna really dive deep into

1580
01:34:00,320 --> 01:34:04,240
Speaker 1: some cool topics with cool people. And I'm very, very

1581
01:34:04,280 --> 01:34:10,719
Speaker 1: excited about it. Um. And then so my my other business,

1582
01:34:11,479 --> 01:34:14,080
Speaker 1: uh is Bear Hunting Magazine. So we we publish a

1583
01:34:14,680 --> 01:34:20,559
Speaker 1: print magazine, bi monthly magazine. Um. That is a good

1584
01:34:20,600 --> 01:34:23,160
Speaker 1: place to stay up with with with the bear hunting

1585
01:34:23,240 --> 01:34:26,120
Speaker 1: world tips and tactics. I mean, you know, we've been

1586
01:34:26,160 --> 01:34:28,360
Speaker 1: a print for twenty years and it's the only print

1587
01:34:28,400 --> 01:34:31,479
Speaker 1: bear hunting magazine in the world. And uh so that's

1588
01:34:31,800 --> 01:34:34,479
Speaker 1: that is another thing that I do aside from meat Eater.

1589
01:34:34,840 --> 01:34:38,280
Speaker 1: That's working with meat Eater. Um. But yeah, that's where

1590
01:34:38,320 --> 01:34:42,320
Speaker 1: they can find me. Mark, all right, perfect, Well h Clay,

1591
01:34:42,680 --> 01:34:44,639
Speaker 1: I just want to thank you for taking the time

1592
01:34:44,880 --> 01:34:50,200
Speaker 1: to uh indulge my questions and wanderings and ramblings, and

1593
01:34:50,479 --> 01:34:53,200
Speaker 1: uh this is a lot of fun my pleasure. Mark,

1594
01:34:53,280 --> 01:34:56,479
Speaker 1: thank you all right, that is a rap. Thank you

1595
01:34:56,560 --> 01:34:59,040
Speaker 1: for tuning in, Thanks for hearing us out, Thanks for

1596
01:34:59,240 --> 01:35:04,400
Speaker 1: thinking about and considering some of these issues and questions. Uh,

1597
01:35:04,640 --> 01:35:09,160
Speaker 1: let's all try to remember plays five steps towards a

1598
01:35:09,320 --> 01:35:12,320
Speaker 1: better future for hunting. I think he's on some great

1599
01:35:12,400 --> 01:35:14,400
Speaker 1: things here, and there's certainly more that we can all

1600
01:35:14,479 --> 01:35:18,280
Speaker 1: think about. Me too, as I try to figure out

1601
01:35:18,360 --> 01:35:22,360
Speaker 1: how I personally can you know, make a meaningful impact

1602
01:35:22,640 --> 01:35:25,880
Speaker 1: on this issue, and I think as a group together

1603
01:35:26,439 --> 01:35:28,600
Speaker 1: we can all do it. So that said, thank you

1604
01:35:28,680 --> 01:35:31,880
Speaker 1: for listening, Thanks for your attention. If you're out there

1605
01:35:31,960 --> 01:35:35,040
Speaker 1: scouting or shed hunting or working on habitat, I hope

1606
01:35:35,080 --> 01:35:38,439
Speaker 1: you're having a blast. Enjoy the great outdoors, enjoy your

1607
01:35:38,520 --> 01:35:41,040
Speaker 1: deer hunting pursuit. This is a day and good thing

1608
01:35:41,080 --> 01:35:46,080
Speaker 1: we've got. So with that said, thanks and stay wired

1609
01:35:46,760 --> 01:35:47,240
Speaker 1: to hunt.