1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: Col Zone Media. In nineteen seventy six, James Mason was 2 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: just twenty four years old. He was fresh office sentence 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: in Ohio jail for spraying mace ad, a black fourteen 4 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: year old girl in a dairy Queen parking lot. It 5 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:23,919 Speaker 1: would be a few more years before he started working 6 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: on his most lasting legacy, the Newsletters that would become Siege, 7 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: a beloved text for neo Nazi terrorists, but he was writing. 8 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:36,480 Speaker 1: He was the editor of the newsletter for the newly 9 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:41,200 Speaker 1: formed National Socialist Movement, and the August nineteen seventy six 10 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: issue contained a write up about a hated enemy from Charlottesville, Virginia. 11 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: Word reaches us that the sneak murderer of Rockwell, John 12 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: pat Solos, is in trouble again, this time with the 13 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: law for disorderly conduct. In the nude pat Solos aka Patler, 14 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: and two other men were a did in charge with 15 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: trespassing and possession of marijuana while conducting an orgy with 16 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: one woman who is still being sought. Rockwell is dead 17 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 1: and his murderer carouses reason enough to destroy any system 18 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: that would permit it. Keep turning up this way, buddy boy, 19 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: so that we may keep track of you. Whether or 20 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,040 Speaker 1: not James Mason kept track of John Patler in the 21 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: years that followed, I couldn't tell you. But here's the 22 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: rest of his story. I'm Molly Coner, and this is 23 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: where the little guys. When we left off last time, 24 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: it was nineteen seventy six, and I was apologizing for 25 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: writing without a plan. I could probably be more organized, 26 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: but I think that would mean cutting out the side quests, 27 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: and to be honest, I'd rather die than live a 28 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: life without my rabbit holes. So as my apology to you, 29 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: you're getting this a little bit early, this being the 30 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: second half of the third part of a series that 31 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: I thought was going to be a single episode. Is 32 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 1: there more? I actually don't know. I'll find out about 33 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: ninety six hours before you do. At the very least, 34 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: I know we aren't quite moving on next week. I 35 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:41,239 Speaker 1: still need to tell you about the legal battle over 36 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: George Lincoln Rockwell's corpse that ended in an all day 37 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: standoff with the army. But back to the orgy. In 38 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 1: the summer of nineteen seventy six, John Patler was out 39 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: of prison. He'd been released on parole after serving barely 40 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 1: five years of his twenty years sentence for the murder 41 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: of America Nazi Party commander George Lincoln Rockwell. He was 42 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: close to finishing a degree at Radford College, having taken 43 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: a year of classes through the Study Release program while 44 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: he was still in prison, but in June of nineteen 45 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 1: seventy six, he wasn't enrolled in summer classes. He says 46 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: he was in Charlottesville that summer looking for a job. Now, 47 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: for my non Virginians, Radford is about one hundred and 48 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: fifty miles away from Charlottesville. It's hard to say what 49 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: brought him here or what sort of job he was 50 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: looking for. His brother was living about an hour north 51 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: of Charlottesville, and it's hard to say with certainty what 52 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: someone's address was fifty years ago. But it seems like 53 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: both of his ex wives, each of them raising two 54 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: of his sons, were living in the central Virginia area 55 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: at the time as well, although in opposite directions, and 56 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: none of them were actually in the Charlotteville area directly, 57 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: and it doesn't appear he was in contact with them. 58 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: So I guess what I'm saying is, I don't know 59 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: why he was looking for a job here, but that's 60 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: what he told the cops. On a Wednesday evening in 61 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 1: June of nineteen seventy six, a man got home from work. 62 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: He opened his front door, and he walked inside, and 63 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 1: he found four naked strangers engaging in some unspecified group 64 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 1: sex act in his living room. He ordered the naked 65 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: people to leave, obviously, and to their credit, they did. 66 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: As they were leaving. He wrote down the license plate 67 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: number of the car they piled into, and he called 68 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: the police. No reporting that I could find ever identified 69 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 1: the woman, but all three men were quickly arrested. A 70 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: Charlottesville police officer spotted the car half an hour later 71 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: and arrested John Patler and the other two men. I 72 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: have nothing but questions about this. How did these men meet? 73 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: What was the conversation leading up to this? How do 74 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: you end up having an orgy in someone else's house. 75 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,159 Speaker 1: The other two men's names are in the newspaper, but 76 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: I don't want to get too deep into who they were. 77 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 1: One of them would later get arrested after an armed 78 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: stand off with police when he barricaded himself inside of 79 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:35,359 Speaker 1: his psychiatrist's home, which he'd broken into after being released 80 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: from a psychiatric hospital, and the other man had a 81 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 1: fair number of drug charges that pre date nineteen seventy six, 82 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: but in the two decades after this, he committed such 83 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: a staggering number of horrific sexual crimes that I don't 84 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: really want to talk about it. But back to this 85 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: evening in June of nineteen seventy six, presumably they were 86 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: all clothed by the time the officer pulled them over. 87 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,039 Speaker 1: All three of them were wanted in connection with the 88 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,919 Speaker 1: reported trespassing, and the officer reported finding a pipe with 89 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: marijuana residue, as well as a small quantity of marijuana 90 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 1: on Patler's person, So he was charged with possession of 91 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 1: marijuana as well. So now he has three problems. He's 92 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: been charged with two crimes, he's very embarrassed, and he's 93 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: recently been parolled after serving just five years of a 94 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 1: twenty year sentence for murder. Well, I guess he has 95 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: four problems. It's probably going to be pretty hard to 96 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: find a job in Charlottesville now. Patler told reporters with 97 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: the local newspaper shortly after this arrest that the entire 98 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: incident had been blown out of proportion. He said he 99 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: didn't know anything about any kind of orgy, and he 100 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 1: claimed that he and the other men had been invited 101 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: guests of the home's other occupant. The man who came 102 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 1: home to find the orgy in his living room did 103 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: have a roommate, and that man was the brother of 104 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 1: one of these naked people, so it's not impossible that 105 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: they were his guests. But he wasn't home, and police 106 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: say the group entered the house through a window. I mean, 107 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:28,559 Speaker 1: that's not something I would do at my brother's house, 108 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: but people are different. The story received a lot more 109 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: press than the average trespassing charge, and Patler was probably 110 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: right when he told the local newspaper that all this 111 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: attention was quote due to the identities of the people involved. 112 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: It was picked up as a wire story and ended 113 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: up published in newspapers all over the country, which is 114 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: probably how word ended up getting back to his old associates. 115 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: All three men were acquitted on the trustpassing charge. The 116 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: judge found that there was insufficient proof they'd been in 117 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: the home because they only had the home occupant's word 118 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: on the matter. Typically, a trustpassing charge involves a police 119 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: officer seeing you do it, but Patler was unable to 120 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: attend his own trial for truspassing because he was already 121 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: back in jail somewhere else. Getting arrested is a parole violation. 122 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: The prosecutor in Charlottesville ultimately dropped the marijuana possession charge 123 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:37,199 Speaker 1: entirely likely because there was no point prosecuting the case 124 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: if the defendant was already incarcerated somewhere else for something 125 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 1: more serious. Getting arrested at all, even if you're ultimately 126 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: acquitted or the charges are dropped, is what's called a 127 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: technical violation, which can lead to problems for someone on 128 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: probation or parole. If he had been in perfect compliance 129 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: with his conditions, otherwise, the technical violation may have been resolvable, 130 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: it might not have caused problems for him, But according 131 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:10,199 Speaker 1: to newspaper reports, his probation conditions required him to remain 132 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 1: in the Radford area, so it looked like he was 133 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,439 Speaker 1: trying to move to and get a job in Charlottesville, 134 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 1: which was a violation, and that sent him back to 135 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: prison in the fall of nineteen seventy six. In January 136 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 1: of nineteen seventy eight, from jail, he filed a petition 137 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: with the court to legally change his name back to Patsalos. 138 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: Like those articles from the early seventies. The first time 139 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: he was in jail, he says he's changed his ways, 140 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: and he understands now that his hateful ways were really 141 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: just misdirected hatred of himself. In early nineteen seventy eight, 142 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: those articles say that he wouldn't be released for another 143 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: six years, and I can't find any newspaper stories that 144 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 1: definitively put him in or out of prison in the 145 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:03,079 Speaker 1: next few years. But a footnote in Frederick Simonelli's biography 146 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: of Rockwell says that he was paroled again for good 147 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: in October of nineteen seventy eight, and then he sort 148 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: of disappears. I read in a few sources that he 149 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: moved back to New York City immediately after being released, 150 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: but it does look like he stayed in the Richmond, 151 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: Virginia area for a few years. In nineteen eighty eight, 152 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,079 Speaker 1: he legally changed his name back to John Patsalos in 153 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 1: the Richmond Circuit Court. I found a marriage license for 154 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: him in Manhattan in nineteen ninety, but the woman moved 155 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: across the country just a few years later, and she 156 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: ultimately filed for divorce from the West Coast. So his 157 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: third marriage didn't last long and doesn't seem to have 158 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: produced any children. In twenty seventeen, a reporter from the 159 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: Washington Post went looking for him. He refused to be interviewed, 160 00:10:58,000 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 1: but at the time he was living on the Lower 161 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: East Side. At the age of seventy nine, Butler was 162 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 1: still earning a living as a freelance cartoonist. But the 163 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: article doesn't say who's buying his art. I mean, freelance 164 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: cartooning is probably a pretty tough way to pay the 165 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: rent in Manhattan, so I imagine he's selling those drawings to 166 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:21,559 Speaker 1: anyone who would buy them. But I was only able 167 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: to pin down the details for one High Times magazine. 168 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: I found a couple of issues from that era and 169 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: flipped through them, but I never found his name in 170 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: the magazine itself. He's not credited as the artist anywhere 171 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: that I can find, so it's not unlikely that his 172 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 1: art appears elsewhere also without attribution. But I know he 173 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: was working for High Times, that magazine about marijuana, because 174 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen it was sold to a private equity firm. 175 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: As a part of that sale, documents were filed with 176 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: the Securities and Exchange Commission they're all very boring, and 177 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: they're not the kinds of documents I usually look at. 178 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 1: But in one endless pdf of assets and liabilities and 179 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: financed gibberish, there's a list of the magazine's current freelance contracts. 180 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 1: John Patsalos is listed as a monthly contributor to the magazine, 181 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 1: earning five hundred dollars a month as an illustrator. In 182 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: his Misspent Nazi Youth, he illustrated the quarterly magazine of 183 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: the American Nazi Party. There's one issue that has a 184 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 1: multi page comic called white Man, a superhero with a 185 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: swastika on his chest who does battle with what I 186 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: can only assume is a non copyright infringing version of 187 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: Superman because he's referred to only as the Jew from 188 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:56,119 Speaker 1: outer Space. In the nineteen sixties, in a converted henhouse 189 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: with a giant swastika on the roof, he labored over 190 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: a rinting press, watching us thousands of copies of his 191 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:08,680 Speaker 1: racist caricatures landed in a pile. And now in his 192 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:12,559 Speaker 1: old age, he's drawing little cartoons of people smoking weed. 193 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 1: That's the last place John Patler appears in any record 194 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: I can find. Every August. His name appears in a 195 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: few newspapers running stories about the anniversary of Rockwell's death, 196 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: but it's always the same story, just a reminder of 197 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:35,320 Speaker 1: that moment in history, just to remember when about that 198 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: day in nineteen sixty seven. There's no obituary that I 199 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: can find, and data broker sites show that he still 200 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: lives in that apartment on the Lower East Side, but 201 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: that doesn't mean much. If he is still alive, he'll 202 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: turn eighty eight in January. If he isn't, then his 203 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 1: passing didn't make the news and wasn't mourned by anyone, 204 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: at least not pup alive or dead. The last years 205 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: of his life were spent in obscurity. He's just a strange, 206 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: sad footnote in the story of the man he says 207 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: he didn't kill. A listener posted a question a few 208 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: weeks ago on the show's subreddit about Patler's younger brother. Ordinarily, 209 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: I would probably leave him out of a story like this. 210 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: There's no indication I could find that they were particularly close, 211 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 1: and nothing I found hinted that he was involved in 212 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: similar political activities, at least not the Nazi stuff. There 213 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 1: is a new story about him getting arrested for cross 214 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: burning in nineteen eighty five, but it looks like the 215 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 1: case was dropped because the victim was also white. Puzzling. 216 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: But in any case, I think for this story it 217 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: is actually relevant to talk a little bit about George Patsalos. 218 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: Back in the first episode, I talked a little about 219 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: their childhoods. They were born a year and a half apart, 220 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 1: so George wasn't quite four years old when their father 221 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: murdered their mother in nineteen fifty eight, the year John 222 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: Patler enlisted the Marines to avoid going to jail for 223 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: a probation violation, George was arrested for setting a school 224 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: on fire in the Bronx in nineteen sixty seven. When 225 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 1: John Patler wrote his own autobiography in his final issue 226 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: of Stormtrooper magazine, he dismissed the idea that his troubled 227 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: home life had played any role in the man he became, 228 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: considering his brother was nothing like him, He wrote, quote, 229 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: the environmentalists and the jew oriented psychiatrists will no doubt 230 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: attribute my political activity and extremist beliefs to my unfortunate 231 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: childhood experiences. But my brother, who experienced the exact environment 232 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: I did, and who underwent the same hardships, lives an 233 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: opposite life than mine. He is today a happily married man, 234 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: a peaceful, non political citizen, and the owner of a 235 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: small business he built up himself, And maybe in nineteen 236 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: sixty seven, John Patler believed that that was true. It 237 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: was around this time that his brother George moved down 238 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: to Virginia from New York. I couldn't tell you what 239 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: prompted the move for exactly when it was. Articles about 240 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: George that were written much later say that he moved 241 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: to Virginia in the early seventies, but birth records for 242 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: his children show one born in New York in nineteen 243 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: sixty three, followed by one born in Virginia in nineteen 244 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: sixty seven. So he was living in Virginia at least 245 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: as early as nineteen sixty seven, and the happy marriage 246 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: Tatler wrote about seems to have been anything. But he 247 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: married his first wife in nineteen sixty three, at eight 248 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: months before their first daughter was born. When his wife 249 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 1: filed for divorce, she cited both cruelty and wilful abandonment. 250 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 1: By the time the divorce was finalized in nineteen seventy four. George, 251 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: who was in his mid thirties and a father of four, 252 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: was already living with a girl he met a year earlier, 253 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: when he was married and she was in high school. 254 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 1: Her name was Ava DeHart. By nineteen eighty two, she 255 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: wasn't a teenager anymore. They'd been together for almost a decade. 256 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: She worked at the motorcycle shop he ran in Fredericksburg, Virginia, 257 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 1: and they lived together in a trailer in a small 258 00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: town about halfway between Fredericksburg and Charlottesville. In the summer 259 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: of nineteen eighty two, Ava confided in her sister that 260 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: she was afraid of George, that he'd been hurting her, 261 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:10,920 Speaker 1: and she was afraid that if she tried to leave, 262 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: he would find her and kill her, or worse, that 263 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 1: he'd kill her family. She told her sister that he'd 264 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 1: killed before, but she wouldn't say anymore, and then she disappeared. 265 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 1: George Patsalos had already moved on to another woman before 266 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 1: Ava disappeared in nineteen eighty two, and in nineteen eighty 267 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 1: five he married Barbara Campfield, the woman he'd started seeing 268 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 1: a year before. Ava de Heart vanished. That marriage was 269 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:51,639 Speaker 1: over before it even really began. They married in March, 270 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 1: had a baby in May, and they were separated by July, 271 00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:00,919 Speaker 1: though they didn't officially divorce until nineteen eighty seven. On 272 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,919 Speaker 1: the divorce decree, the legal grounds for the divorce is 273 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: listed simply as cruelty. You can't really know what goes 274 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: on behind closed doors. But shortly before Barbara filed for 275 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: the divorce, her brother shot George in the neck during 276 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 1: an argument that took place at her mother's house. For 277 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: fourteen years, Ava Dehart's sister, Debbie, investigated the disappearance on 278 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 1: her own. She hired a private investigator, but she kept 279 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: pursuing the best lead on her own. Barbara Campfield hadn't 280 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:42,959 Speaker 1: to know something. She was George Patsalos's girlfriend when Ava disappeared, 281 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: and it's a small town people talk, so she took 282 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 1: advantage of that, and she talked too. Debbie would stop 283 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: by the grocery store where Barbara was working, just a chat. 284 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:01,919 Speaker 1: Every now and then. She'd ask Barbara her sister. She 285 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:05,479 Speaker 1: asked her about George. She asked what happened in nineteen 286 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:11,639 Speaker 1: eighty two, and slowly Barbara opened up to her. Barbara 287 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: hired a lawyer shortly after She led on to Debbie 288 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: that she'd helped George clean up a lot of blood 289 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,159 Speaker 1: one night in July of nineteen eighty two, and her 290 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:26,360 Speaker 1: lawyer negotiated a deal for immunity, and then she took 291 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: the police to the well. Barbara said for all those 292 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,160 Speaker 1: years she'd been too afraid to talk. She was afraid 293 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 1: that George would do the same thing to her. But 294 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety six, she finally confessed to helping George 295 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 1: Potsollos throw a body down a well. She claimed that 296 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:51,199 Speaker 1: she never knew whose body it was. A forensic examination 297 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:53,719 Speaker 1: confirmed that the skeletal remains at the bottom of an 298 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: abandoned well were those of Ava DeHart. A forensic anthropologist 299 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: had testified that of the thirty five fractures detected on examination, 300 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 1: twenty seven of them happened while she was still alive. 301 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: George Potzalos beat her to death. George Pozzalos was convicted 302 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: of the first degree murder of Ava de Hart in 303 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven. He was sentenced to life in prison, 304 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: where he died in two thousand and six. So in 305 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 1: nineteen forty three, Cristos Pazzalos shot his wife Athena in 306 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: the throat, leaving John and George without a mother. John 307 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 1: Patler was right almost when he wrote in nineteen seventy 308 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 1: six that it isn't fair to attribute his political leanings 309 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: entirely to his violent childhood. It is possible to grow 310 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: up in a violent home and not become a Nazi. 311 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,120 Speaker 1: It is possible to be the son of a domestic 312 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: abuser and not grow up to beat women to death. 313 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,199 Speaker 1: But it is still true to say that that's what 314 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 1: happened here, that the sons of a murdered mother grew 315 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 1: into men who murdered too. One killed a man he 316 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 1: loved like a father, and the other killed a woman 317 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 1: who'd once carried his child. I don't know what that means, 318 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:27,160 Speaker 1: if it means anything, All I know is that's what happened. 319 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 1: In twenty thirteen, John Patler's youngest son, Nicholas Patler, contributed 320 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 1: the afterward to William Schmaltz's biography of George Lincoln Rockwell. 321 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 1: Nicholas was not quite a year old when his father 322 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 1: shot Rockwell, and he wrote that he had no contact 323 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: with his father from the time he was six until 324 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 1: he was thirty four. He's the only one of Patler's 325 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: four children who seems to have made any public statement 326 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,679 Speaker 1: about their father, So he's the only one I'll talk about. 327 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: He has a master's degree in history. His first book 328 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: was a history of the massive protest movement that emerged 329 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:10,120 Speaker 1: in opposition to the forced segregation of the federal workforce 330 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: during the presidency of Woodrow Wilson. For several years he 331 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 1: was an adjunct professor teaching African American history. His second 332 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 1: book actually just came out a few weeks ago, a 333 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: biography of Pinkney Bent and Stewart Pinchback. Pinchback was the 334 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: son of an enslaved woman and was briefly the governor 335 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: of Louisiana in eighteen seventy two. Nicholas Butler has clearly 336 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: worked hard to put something into the world that his 337 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 1: father was trying to take away from it. Look at 338 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: his life, his work, interviews he's given over the years. 339 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: He is the opposite of the man his father was 340 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: in the nineteen sixties. In that afterward, he writes compassionately 341 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 1: about the father he got to know as an adult. 342 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:02,119 Speaker 1: He describes his father's traumatic childhood, and he understands how 343 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: a damaged young man came to be drawn in by 344 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: the fatherly attention he got from Rockwell. He's trying to understand, 345 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 1: and he's careful to emphasize that his goal is not 346 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: to excuse. When he wrote this in twenty thirteen, he'd 347 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: spent a little over a decade getting to know his father, 348 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: and at the time he had also recently enrolled in 349 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:30,200 Speaker 1: a master's program at Bethany Theological Seminary. And I think 350 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: that does help me understand the tenor of the essay 351 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:38,479 Speaker 1: in a way. He's writing earnestly about finding peace and 352 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: being opened to the possibility of transformation. He wrote that 353 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: his father really was a changed man. His father had 354 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,159 Speaker 1: told him once that he regretted his time in the 355 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: Nazi movement, and even expressed that he now realized he'd 356 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: been marching with the wrong side during the Civil Rights movement. 357 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: Nicholas Butler ends that afterward on a hopeful note, writing quote, 358 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: I want to encourage the reader not to give up 359 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 1: on those trapped in cycles and situations of violence and distortion, 360 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: whether in her own back yard or across the globe. 361 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: The one thing that I have seen personally and witnessed 362 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: over and over in many contexts that can transform hatred 363 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 1: and the hater is love, courageous, visionary, and uncompromising love. 364 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: In twenty thirteen, when he wrote that his father was 365 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:44,640 Speaker 1: proof of this message, that he'd been transformed. Four years later, 366 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen, after the Unite the Right rally in Charlesville, Virginia, 367 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 1: every news outlet in the country was running front page 368 00:25:53,920 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: stories with pictures of Nazis. Hundreds and hundreds of neo Nazis, 369 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: men flying Swastika flags, men with Swastika tattoos, men in 370 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 1: Nazi uniforms, men with torches, men with weapons, Videos of 371 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,719 Speaker 1: men chanting you will not replace us blood and soil, 372 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 1: videos of men shouting Rockwell's most famous slogan, white power. 373 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: A changed man, a man who regretted inciting violent racist 374 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 1: mobs all those years ago, What would he say when 375 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: he saw it happening again. Two days after that rally, 376 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 1: after a young neo Nazi murdered a peaceful demonstrator in 377 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: the streets, John Patler posted on Facebook that there's nothing 378 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:05,400 Speaker 1: wrong with white pride. He wrote, it was a peaceful parade, 379 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: a couple of hundred white men, neatly attired, expressing their 380 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: right to free speech and objection to the removal of 381 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:16,440 Speaker 1: the statue of General Lee. A reporter from The Washington 382 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 1: Post made several attempts to contact him, even visiting his 383 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 1: apartment in Manhattan, but he refused to be interviewed. His son, 384 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: the same son who wrote so proudly, so lovingly in 385 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 1: twenty thirteen about his father's transformation, told The Washington Post 386 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen that his father had started to change 387 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: again around twenty fifteen. Quote, I don't know what the 388 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:47,399 Speaker 1: climate is doing to him now. It seems like little 389 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: by little he's becoming poisoned again. You can't know what's 390 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: in a man's heart. You can judge his actions, you 391 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,360 Speaker 1: can interpret his words, but there isn't any one who 392 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: can tell you for sure whether John Patler's heart changed 393 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:10,399 Speaker 1: twice or not at all? Was he a changed man 394 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: from nineteen seventy until twenty fifteen and then he changed back? 395 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 1: Did the love and understanding of a once estranged sun 396 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,439 Speaker 1: help him come to terms with the hurt in his 397 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: own soul and the ways that pushed him to inflict 398 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:29,160 Speaker 1: pain on the world, only then to hear the siren 399 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: song of a new fure during the twenty sixteen election. 400 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: Was that hate, just lying dormant, waiting for the right 401 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 1: moment to march again. There are a few times in 402 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: the last few weeks as I've been writing this story 403 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: that something reminded me of what I think is one 404 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: of the greatest episodes of television ever produced. The fourth 405 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 1: episode of the fourth season of The Twilight Zone aired 406 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: in January of nineteen sixty three. It starred a young 407 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 1: Dennis Hopper as Peter Fulmer, the leader of a small 408 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: group of neo Nazis. I don't know that Rod Serling 409 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: ever stated outright that he was thinking of George Lincoln 410 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: Rockwell when he wrote the character of Peter Fulmer, a small, 411 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 1: angry man desperate to command the respect of his followers, 412 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: but struggling to pay the rent on his Nazi headquarters. 413 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 1: When it is so precisely Rockwell that I can't believe 414 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: there's any other explanation. As Peter Fulmer is struggling to 415 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: put on his little Nazi rallies and grow the ranks 416 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: of his Nazi party, a mysterious figure appears to him 417 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: and offers him money and advice. And when the man 418 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 1: finally steps out of the shadows, it's Adolf Hitler. Himself. 419 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: The episode aired four years before Rockwell died in real life, 420 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,959 Speaker 1: but at the end of the episode, his on screen 421 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: stand in is leading out in an alley. As Rod 422 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 1: Serling narrates the closing monologue, you see Hitler's ghost walk 423 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 1: off into the night in search of a new apprentice, 424 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 1: and we're left with a warning. He's alive. He's alive 425 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: because we keep him alive. 426 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 2: He's alive so long as these evils exist. Remember that 427 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 2: when he comes to Ururtan. Remember it when you hear 428 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 2: his voice speaking on through others. Remember it when you 429 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 2: hear a name called a minority, attack, any blind, unreasoning 430 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 2: assault out a people, or any human being. He's alive 431 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 2: because through these things we keep them alive. 432 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: George Lincoln Rockwell is dead. Almost all of the men 433 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 1: who marched behind him sixty years ago are dead. But 434 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 1: only the men died. The thing that drove them, the 435 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: thing that's still drives men like them today. It's alive, 436 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: and too many people are keeping it alive. Weird Little 437 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: Guys is a production of Pool Zone Media and iHeartRadio. 438 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 1: It's researched, written and recorded by me Molly Conger. Our 439 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 1: executive producers are Sophy Lettterman, and Robert Evans. The show 440 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 1: is edited by the wildly talented Ry Gagan that the 441 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: music was composed by Brad Dickard. You can email me 442 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 1: at Wardly Guy's podcast at gmail dot com. I will 443 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 1: definitely read it, but I probably won't answer it. As 444 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 1: nothing personal. You can exchange conspiracy theories about the show 445 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: with other listeners on the Weird Little Guys subred it. 446 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: Just don't post anything that's going to make you one 447 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 1: of my Weird Little Guys