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Speaker 1: Hello, They're happy Monday, and welcome to another episode of

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Speaker 1: the Chuck Podcast. I got a few emails from some

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Speaker 1: of you who wondered how bad my mood was on

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Speaker 1: Saturday morning, because I have let you guys know that

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Speaker 1: my mood. The one thing University of Miami wins and

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Speaker 1: losses do more than any other of my sports teams,

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Speaker 1: more than the Packers, more than the Nats, is it

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Speaker 1: affects my mood. Here's what I can't admit. I'll have

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Speaker 1: a little bit more to say at the end of

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I have promised I will keep my sports

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Speaker 1: obsessions towards the end so that way the true diehards

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Speaker 1: to the Toodcast. We'll get there. We'll get that fix.

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Speaker 1: I have a lot to say about the game. I

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Speaker 1: hate the idea that I may have predicted this exact

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Speaker 1: outcome and how it went. I will get into it.

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Speaker 1: I will get into a little bit more. In college football,

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Speaker 1: we got another coach firing already, all fascinating to watch.

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Speaker 1: At some point, who's going to be left to hire

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Speaker 1: all these the amount of money when you have Penn

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Speaker 1: State in Florida and Arkansas, huge programs that are going

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Speaker 1: to throw all sorts of dollars at their coaching search.

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Speaker 1: Don't forget UCLA that has a lot of money. Who

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Speaker 1: else follows right down that road? Virginia Tech thinks it's

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Speaker 1: a major program. What about Clemson? It's clear that Dabo

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Speaker 1: was actually worried about his job. Anyway, I said, I

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Speaker 1: was going to wait until the end and I will look.

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Speaker 1: I think there was the big event of the weekend

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Speaker 1: obviously was an O Kings protest. A frankly, a pretty

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Speaker 1: I think it was a pretty impressive showing. I think

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Speaker 1: what the question with these protests is is what we

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Speaker 1: what do we learn from them? Do they translate into something? Look,

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Speaker 1: the timing of this protest is not random, Okay, The

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Speaker 1: timing of this protest comes basically in the middle of

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Speaker 1: early voting here in Virginia. You've got the New Jersey elections.

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Speaker 1: You have a bunch of off your elections, right, this

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Speaker 1: is these are these are as. My friend John Ellis

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Speaker 1: said it's a bunch of local elections that will have

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Speaker 1: national significance. And he's not wrong, and they will have

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Speaker 1: national significance. What happens in Virginia. How strong is the

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Speaker 1: anti Trump vote? Well, we now have an easy measurement

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Speaker 1: to find out how strong, how powerful are anti Trump

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Speaker 1: feelings in Virginia. Are they powerful enough for somebody who's

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Speaker 1: not qualified. I think I think has pretty much made it,

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Speaker 1: you know, from what has rhetorically said. It's certainly I

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Speaker 1: think there are questions whether he's qualified to be attorney

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Speaker 1: general and Jay Jones, but if he wins, it's really

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Speaker 1: a bigger statement on Trump, arguably really than anybody else.

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Speaker 1: Not Mer's, not Jones, not anything, you know, because if

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Speaker 1: this election is held sort of in isolations, Joan doesn't win,

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Speaker 1: Mirs wins this thing, and he still probably wins the

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Speaker 1: you know, I'd still probably rather be him. But we

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Speaker 1: know in these statewide elections, gubernatorial the gubernatorial vote has

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Speaker 1: a huge impact, and anything north of five points or

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Speaker 1: more will bring at least one of the down ballots

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Speaker 1: with her, Abigail Spamberger. The question is does it bring two.

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Speaker 1: I told you that Jason Miaris has already basically thrown

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Speaker 1: the Republican nominee for governor under the bus. Since they

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Speaker 1: have divergent strategies on Abigail Spamberger's rhetoric on j Jones,

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Speaker 1: Miaris has decided to embrace her rhetoric, even as Winston

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Speaker 1: mertle Series has been trying to knock it down. But

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Speaker 1: the point is is that when you're doing a political

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Speaker 1: protest like this, the true way to measure its impact

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Speaker 1: and whether it's having an impact beyond just being an

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Speaker 1: event for the day, is whether it translates into political activity. Well,

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Speaker 1: the next measurement of political activity is going to be

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Speaker 1: the off off year elections that take place in three weeks.

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Speaker 1: The timing of this in some ways the smarter campaigns

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Speaker 1: in New Jersey, in Virginia, in mayor's races in California

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Speaker 1: with the proposition you have Pennsylvania with the Supreme Court races.

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Speaker 1: So all of those cases there was likely organizing. We

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Speaker 1: know that there was organizing going on in those places

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Speaker 1: where there was a direct tide of the election. So

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Speaker 1: the point is there's a couple of ways to measure this,

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Speaker 1: and that to me is an important way to measure

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Speaker 1: I do. I've done, with the help of a bunch

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Speaker 1: of news articles searching, I've tried to compile here some

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Speaker 1: turnout estimates in various cities. So you can hear here

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Speaker 1: in d C sort of the central organizing effort for

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Speaker 1: the no Kings protest. The estimate is about over two

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand of DC area residents. Look, this is a

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Speaker 1: bigger turnout than they had in the first one. And again,

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Speaker 1: the real you know will know how success full this

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Speaker 1: was based on how strong the democratic performance is in Virginia.

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Speaker 1: It has been you know, this Jay Jones thing has

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Speaker 1: taken a you know, has had a huge impact on

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Speaker 1: turnout efforts on a lot of things in Virginia. Does

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Speaker 1: this turn the page on that and help Democrats? That's

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Speaker 1: a way to measure there. In San Francisco, one organizer

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Speaker 1: estimate claimed half a million. Look, it's a city of

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Speaker 1: what I would call a protest culture, very comfortable out

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Speaker 1: there protesting, So not surprising that this would be the

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Speaker 1: city with the largest turnout. This tell to me. And

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Speaker 1: I've seen the polling, you know, if you want to

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Speaker 1: see anecdotal versus polling, and you saw this protest had

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Speaker 1: a real focus on the proposition campaign, on the redistricting

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Speaker 1: response to Texas there, So I think this tells you something.

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Speaker 1: Half a million. Chicago had one hundred thousand grant parks

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Speaker 1: Butler Field. It was a march that not surprisingly went

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Speaker 1: past Trump Tower as they wanted to do. New York

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Speaker 1: City had an estimate of one hundred thousand. The largest

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Speaker 1: protests were somewhere in Times Square. That's where you saw

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Speaker 1: the most. Portland, Oregon, claimed about forty thousand protesters there.

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Speaker 1: They were in a downtown area, carnival like atmosphere. The

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Speaker 1: inflatable costumes that we've seen at the detention centers as

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Speaker 1: the protesters that the administration keeps accusing of being part

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Speaker 1: of this organized effort that they claim as Antifa, the

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Speaker 1: inflatable costumes have become a hallmark of Portland. San Diego

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Speaker 1: sixty thousand. Not insignificant in a military town. Okay, that's

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Speaker 1: a pretty big number for San Diego. Not a protest

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Speaker 1: culture there. Speaking of places where you don't normally see

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Speaker 1: protest cultures in the deep South, Atlanta only had about

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Speaker 1: ten thousand filled the Atlantic CI Civic Center parking lot,

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Speaker 1: if you will. But again, the South in general a

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Speaker 1: little less of a protest culture. The protest culture California,

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Speaker 1: the Northeast, a little bit. In the midwest. Madison, Wisconsin,

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Speaker 1: fifteen thousand a march near the state capital. Hartford, Connecticut

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Speaker 1: estimate of twelve thousand. San Jose Silicon Valley an estimate

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Speaker 1: of twelve thousand, about four thousand in Eugene, Oregon. In

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Speaker 1: Pittsburgh downtown Pittsburgh about two to three thousand. It seems

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Speaker 1: to be the best estimate I could come up with.

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Speaker 1: Their in Sacramento, you had about five thousand. State Capitol

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Speaker 1: of California, Roseberg, Oregon. It's a conservative part of Oregon,

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Speaker 1: so they were affected. You had a couple thousand show

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Speaker 1: up there in a more rural community that's of significance.

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Speaker 1: Rice Lake, Wisconsin. Another This is a town of nine

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Speaker 1: thousand people, so they claimed essentially that almost ten percent

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Speaker 1: of the town turned out to protest at nearly a

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Speaker 1: thousand folks there. Juddville, Wisconsin, also a thousand. This is

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Speaker 1: Door County community event. This is a little bit closer

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Speaker 1: to the green Berry area, if you will, in another

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Speaker 1: eleven hundred. So they had a lot of small protests

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Speaker 1: turn out in Wisconsin, which isn't surprising, right We've we've

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Speaker 1: what we've seen Wisconsin. There's there's quite a bit. Both

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Speaker 1: parties I think have super activists in they will so

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Speaker 1: look the big what I was curious about and nervous about.

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Speaker 1: I was curious about the Republican response and nervous about

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Speaker 1: the administration's response. Was there anything that was going to

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Speaker 1: happen in these demonstrations that was essentially going to be

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Speaker 1: bait if you will, or an attempt or would the

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Speaker 1: you know was the was Stephen Miller uh and that

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Speaker 1: wing of the of the Trump administration where they're essentially

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Speaker 1: looking for a confrontation. Would they find a confrontation Here's

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Speaker 1: there was no major confrontations like that. So in the

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Speaker 1: official level, it feels as if Lawnforce essentially treated this

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Speaker 1: protest the way we've treated protests for decades in this country, responsibly,

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Speaker 1: with respect, seems like protesters. I saw there was a

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Speaker 1: among the tweets. I saw the Austin Police Department, it's

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Speaker 1: official Twitter account put out a thank you to protesters

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Speaker 1: in't too law enforcement, saying everybody was well behaved and respectful, etc.

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Speaker 1: But then we have the social media memes, right, the absurdity,

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Speaker 1: and the one that has gotten the most is this

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Speaker 1: head scratcher, And it goes to this larger issue that

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Speaker 1: I've brought up a few times, which is why they

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Speaker 1: were Republican administration, why Donald Trump does not believe he's

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Speaker 1: president for all the people he really only believes he's

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Speaker 1: president for his base. It explains his rhetoric and explains

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Speaker 1: his decision making. It explains why he seems to not

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Speaker 1: care what swing voters think at all. And he retweeted

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Speaker 1: this that essentially had a AI personification of Trump flying

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Speaker 1: a plane and dropping poop on America, basically flying over

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Speaker 1: major cities and dropping poop. Seriously, really, I mean it

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Speaker 1: is you know, we're so used to sort of the

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Speaker 1: childlike behavior of him at times of this movement, there

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Speaker 1: is always I mean, one of the things that I've

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Speaker 1: said in the past about him is that there's an

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Speaker 1: arrested development quality, right that phrase mean phrase isn't just

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Speaker 1: a great title of a great television show, or at

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Speaker 1: least three and a half seasons of a great television show,

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Speaker 1: sorry Ron Howard, but it is an actual sort of

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Speaker 1: you know, at times, it's as if Donald Trump has

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Speaker 1: been thirteen his whole life, right, the mentality of a

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Speaker 1: thirteen year old What he thinks is humorous. And I

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Speaker 1: always say what he thinks is humorous because Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: doesn't laugh. Donald Trump doesn't naturally laugh. Go tell me

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Speaker 1: where you've found him naturally laugh. He does not sort

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Speaker 1: of have the normal social interactions. You know, there's always

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Speaker 1: a lot of people attempt to normalize him. He is

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Speaker 1: much more normal in person, but in the public setting

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Speaker 1: he doesn't quite He doesn't ever use humor. I remember

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Speaker 1: the one time he was asked to use humor was

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Speaker 1: at the Al Smith dinner in twenty sixteen, and he

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Speaker 1: was just so bad at it. He didn't know how

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Speaker 1: to do it. He doesn't know how to tell a joke,

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Speaker 1: and he doesn't know how to laugh very well. It's

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Speaker 1: just if you want to chalk it up. I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to sit here and try to diagnose him because

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Speaker 1: I'm not trained in psychology to try to do that diagnosis.

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Speaker 1: But I find it odd that he never ever laughs. Okay,

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Speaker 1: he will laugh along when an audience laughs with him,

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Speaker 1: but tell me when you have found him do a

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Speaker 1: belly laugh when he's just hanging with friends, you know.

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Speaker 1: And I'd actually thrown an aside. You know what phrase

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Speaker 1: you never hear connected to Donald Trump lifelong friend. There's

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Speaker 1: nobody that is connected to him that is ever described

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Speaker 1: as Donald Trump's lifelong friend, Donald Trump's former college roommate,

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump's uh friend from grade school. Think about that.

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Speaker 1: Every other president we've ever had has had a friend circle,

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Speaker 1: particularly once they got to the president that really did

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Speaker 1: go back to their college and high school years. Right,

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Speaker 1: Because ultimately, who do you trust people that knew you

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Speaker 1: before you were somebody? Right, I'm one of those one

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Speaker 1: hundred percent true. Right, You're more likely to sort of

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Speaker 1: weirdly feel comfortable with people even't interacted with about if

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Speaker 1: they knew you before you were, before you were somehow

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Speaker 1: a boldface name to somebody, not Donald Trump. It's the

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Speaker 1: it's one of the most Sometimes with Donald Trump, I

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Speaker 1: think we forget that there are non stories, stuff that

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Speaker 1: doesn't happen, which is worth reporting. Right, One thing that

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Speaker 1: doesn't happen anymore. He doesn't travel the country. He just doesn't.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't sell his agenda. He doesn't explain, you know.

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Speaker 1: He certainly takes plenty of questions. He seems active, but

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Speaker 1: he actually doesn't move very often. Yes, he goes overseas

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Speaker 1: and he wants his big summits. When's the last time

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Speaker 1: he just held a basic rally around the country to

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Speaker 1: sell the program. Doesn't do as much, certainly, not like

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Speaker 1: he did in the first run. It is a reminder

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Speaker 1: that why, I'm pretty confident even if he thought he

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Speaker 1: had the legal grounds to run for president, he wouldn't.

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Speaker 1: But I want to sum up with one other thing

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Speaker 1: about these protests. I said, there's two ways to measure them, right.

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Speaker 1: One measurement is going to be coming up on this

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Speaker 1: November election day. And you know, did you see you know,

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Speaker 1: did it truly? Did they find some new voters that

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Speaker 1: hadn't been paying attention? Did they do any voter registration?

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Speaker 1: So those are the things to measure. But here's something else.

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Speaker 1: You know, the rights very dismissive of this. Even some

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Speaker 1: in the center are dismissive. I've had some friends on

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Speaker 1: the left that are somewhat well, what are these protests game?

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Speaker 1: Here's what I would say. I think it's remarkable that

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Speaker 1: somebody wants to do this on a Saturday. There's we're

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of other things to do, particularly in

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Speaker 1: a fall Saturday. Right, I'm obsessed with college football. I'm

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Speaker 1: not alone in this. We're in the heart of some

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Speaker 1: incredible sports stories right now. Oh my god, show hey o'cani. Right,

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Speaker 1: there's so plenty to quote unquote to do. So the

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Speaker 1: fact that this got you know, millions across the country

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Speaker 1: to turn out these aren't you know you can they can.

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Speaker 1: Critics of this can say, well it was paid for.

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Speaker 1: That to me is even more impressive. There's an entire

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Speaker 1: group of people willing to fund, willing to put organization

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Speaker 1: around it, and they were able to get people to

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Speaker 1: show up, you know, to me saying oh they're paid,

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Speaker 1: this was paid or all of these things are always

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Speaker 1: organized by some entity that has money, right, nobody does it. Yes,

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Speaker 1: there are volunteers, but somebody's paying for some. And look,

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Speaker 1: I remember, I'm old enough to remember when the left

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Speaker 1: was very dismissive of the tea Party protests. Oh, it's grasstops.

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Speaker 1: I was told, you know, you know, don't overrate it.

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Speaker 1: You know, that would be the pushback, just like I'm

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Speaker 1: hearing from the right. Last time I checked, those twenty

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Speaker 1: ten mid terms were pretty rough on the Democrats. Those

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Speaker 1: tea party protests seemed to tap into something, and certainly

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Speaker 1: the tea parties I think is was a you certainly

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Speaker 1: you don't have Donald Trump without those tea party protests

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Speaker 1: twenty ten, twenty nine, ten, twenty eleven, So just it

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Speaker 1: certainly had I think so I would not at all

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Speaker 1: be dismissive of this, and I think you know again,

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Speaker 1: will I think these protests effectiveness will be judged down

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Speaker 1: the road right initially election Day twenty twenty five and

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Speaker 1: then election Day twenty twenty six. But I want to

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Speaker 1: pivot here to what really is the main story I

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Speaker 1: want to focus on this weekend, and that is the growing,

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Speaker 1: I think controversial controversy that's taking place in the Caribbean

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Speaker 1: right now. And what is where even the administration isn't

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Speaker 1: quite sure of how legal their bombings are. And I'll

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Speaker 1: explain why even though they claim they're legal, their actions

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Speaker 1: are actually admitting that they know there are legal questions

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Speaker 1: about what they are up to. But before I get there,

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Speaker 1: it is weird for me not to talk about the

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Speaker 1: government shutdown. Right, Here's what's amazing again. The most of

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Speaker 1: the Sunday shows were about the protests, or really about

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Speaker 1: this debate over is it legal? The what the administration

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Speaker 1: is doing targeting narco traffickers and just calling it a

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Speaker 1: marco terrorists. Does that make them enemy combatants? Does that

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Speaker 1: mean they're really that? This does fall under a previously

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Speaker 1: passed congressional authority of a use of force mission, whether

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Speaker 1: it's the one that I mean, it's it's astonishing that

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Speaker 1: this is sort of loosely. I understand the administration is

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Speaker 1: trying to claim the use of a few different authorizations

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Speaker 1: to justify this military action. But here's what hasn't happened.

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Speaker 1: Nobody really in Congress, I think, is very comfortable with this.

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Speaker 1: But there seems to be an odd amount of what

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Speaker 1: I would call not silence but muted concern about what

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Speaker 1: the administration is doing. And I think a tremendous is

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Speaker 1: just another reminder Congress is not working. Okay, Congress is

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Speaker 1: failing at its job of what it's what it's supposed

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Speaker 1: to do. Zero oversight takes place. You're supposed to do

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Speaker 1: oversight even when your party's in charge. This is the

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Speaker 1: exact thing that oversight was designed for. In fact, my

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Speaker 1: history lesson later in this episode is going to be

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Speaker 1: about the birth of congressional oversight. There was a scandal

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Speaker 1: in the twentieth century that where we didn't have oversight,

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Speaker 1: We didn't even have inspectors general until this scandal happened,

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Speaker 1: and then we got those things. So we are we

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Speaker 1: are seeing in a massive failure of the US Congress

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Speaker 1: here when it comes to this. But let me just

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Speaker 1: get to the shutdown here a second. Then I'll get

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Speaker 1: to this, get to the specifics of this fight, of

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Speaker 1: this battle over whether this is legal, what we're doing

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Speaker 1: in Venezuela. We're now at this full on stalemate. Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump is still not engaged in the shutdown negotiations. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't appear that Schumer and Jeffries, I mean again, they

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Speaker 1: do have the they do have the issue of health

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Speaker 1: care on their side. And we are about twelve days

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Speaker 1: away from premium notices, massive spikes in Obamacare premiums going

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Speaker 1: up on November first, massive spikes going up there. So

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Speaker 1: there will certainly be a cranky or public about the

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Speaker 1: issue of health care. But in the meantime, this not

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Speaker 1: keeping the government open. I just don't. I go back

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Speaker 1: to what I said, every single day this government is

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Speaker 1: shut is I think a day that Democrats lose whatever

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Speaker 1: they think they've gained out of this, and at some point,

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Speaker 1: a shuddered government simply harms people's everyday lives, whether it

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Speaker 1: is travel, which is the big one, food inspectors, whether

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Speaker 1: it's a national weather service. We're just this is ludicrous.

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Speaker 1: And then we're getting you know, we have an administration

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Speaker 1: that doesn't believe that their job is to govern for

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Speaker 1: all the people. It is the weirdest thing. I do

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Speaker 1: not understand why more people aren't upset about the fact

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Speaker 1: that this administration intentionally governs essentially makes decision based on

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Speaker 1: who supports them and who does it. And if they

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Speaker 1: think a piece of policy is a democratic policy, they

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Speaker 1: cut it. You know, they're just cutting it off. They

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Speaker 1: think a cabinet agency is a democratic cabinet agency. They've

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Speaker 1: decided the Education Department said democratic cabinet agency, so they

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Speaker 1: want to get rid of it. And as I've told you,

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Speaker 1: the Department of Homeland Securities they quote Republican agency. And

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Speaker 1: there's been hardly any furloughs at all, other than the

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Speaker 1: fact that they're getting they're going to get paid late.

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Speaker 1: They're not going to get paid on time, and we

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Speaker 1: don't know when these folks are going to get paid.

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Speaker 1: So this is I think this has turned into a

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Speaker 1: cluster of deep if you want, you know, it just is.

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Speaker 1: And at some point Democrats are going to have to

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Speaker 1: suck it up and open the government. They're going to

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Speaker 1: win this healthcare fight political, but they risk sort of losing.

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Speaker 1: I go back to this adult in the room issue,

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Speaker 1: the fact that they are the fact that they have

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Speaker 1: this power in their hands. And yes, technically Republicans could

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Speaker 1: open the government if they got rid of the filibuster.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure anybody. I'm sure all Democrats want to

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Speaker 1: see that happen at this point. The fact the only

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Speaker 1: reason they have leverage is because the filibuster is still there.

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Speaker 1: And I do think there might be some progressives that

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Speaker 1: would love to see the filibuster go away, but I

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Speaker 1: don't think everybody in the Democratic Party wants to see that,

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Speaker 1: So I think they're you know, and again I go

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Speaker 1: back to the Democratic Party's inability to know how to

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Speaker 1: declare victory, to know when to essentially to know. Look,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's like you're trying to maximize profits all

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Speaker 1: the way to the end. Sometimes you sell even if

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Speaker 1: you think the stock's going to keep going on, but

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Speaker 1: you sell because you have actually think this doctor would

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Speaker 1: nose dive, and you may not be there in time

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Speaker 1: to sell. There's a reason results matter more than promises,

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Speaker 1: just like there's a reason Morgan and Morgan is America's

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Speaker 1: largest injury law firm for the last thirty five years,

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Speaker 1: they've recovered twenty five billion dollars for more than half

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Speaker 1: a million clients. It includes cases where insurance companies offered

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Speaker 1: next to nothing, just hoping to get away with paying

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Speaker 1: as little as possible. Morgan and Morgan fought back ended

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Speaker 1: up winning millions. In fact, in Pennsylvania, one client was

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Speaker 1: awarded twenty six million dollars, which was a staggering forty

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Speaker 1: times the amount that the insurance company originally offered. That

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Speaker 1: original offer six hundred and fifty thousand dollars twenty six million,

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Speaker 1: six hundred and fifty thousand dollars. So with more than

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Speaker 1: one thousand lawyers across the country, they know how to

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Speaker 1: deliver for everyday people. If you're injured, you need a lawyer.

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Speaker 1: You need somebody to get your back. Check out for

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Speaker 1: the People dot com, Slash podcast or dial pound law

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Speaker 1: Pound five two nine law on your cell phone. And

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Speaker 1: remember all law firms are not the same, So check

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Speaker 1: out Morgan and Morgan. Their fee is free unless they win.

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Speaker 1: Let me move to I feel like I should do

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Speaker 1: a pretty large dive now on the issue of Venezuela

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Speaker 1: in Colombia, because the biggest thing we have learned. And

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Speaker 1: the biggest sort of tell now that this administration isn't

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Speaker 1: sure what it's doing is legal is the decision to

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Speaker 1: repatriate two survivors from one of these bombings to their

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Speaker 1: home countries. That is the single biggest development of the weekend.

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Speaker 1: For that. The resignation, the decision by the head of

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Speaker 1: Southern Command to resign is another big development. And look,

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Speaker 1: he has not said why he resigned, but I will

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Speaker 1: tell you what Jim Stavridi's who also former head of

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Speaker 1: Southern Command, also former NATO Suprema like commander, what he

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Speaker 1: told me on my news Sphere show last week if

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Speaker 1: you were in a similar situation and he weren't sure

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Speaker 1: whether an order was legal, and he truly had questions

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Speaker 1: about it and worried because remember, if you end up

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Speaker 1: executing an illegal order, you will be held accountable in

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Speaker 1: our law. So this is not you know, this is

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Speaker 1: it didn't work at Nuremberg, right, this is not Ay,

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Speaker 1: I just followed an illegal order. Well, if you're concerned

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Speaker 1: it's an illegal order, your job is to bring that

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Speaker 1: up and then if you're still being ordered to do it. Basically,

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Speaker 1: the honorable thing to do is to resign and that,

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Speaker 1: and so this is a case where we're putting two

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Speaker 1: two and two together and we think we're getting four here.

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Speaker 1: But to me, you had that resignation and then you

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Speaker 1: had this repatriation announcement. This is the tell this administration

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Speaker 1: knows it's on unsteady legal ground. So here's what we

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Speaker 1: do know. And I'm sure you haven't been paying. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: this story is not getting the type of attention that

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Speaker 1: I think it would get if this were happening in

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Speaker 1: the Middle East, this were happening in Asia, this were

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Speaker 1: happening in a Mediterranean Sea. But it's happening in the

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Speaker 1: Western Hemisphere. And for some reason, when shit happens in

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Speaker 1: the Western Hemisphere, we don't prioritize it either in news coverage.

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Speaker 1: We don't prioritize it politically, neither party does. We've not

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Speaker 1: had a president do it, and in fact, we now

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Speaker 1: have a president who I think is about to make

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Speaker 1: some of the same mistakes, grave historical mistakes that have

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Speaker 1: happened in the past on Latin America. So let me

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Speaker 1: get started. So here's the pattern. We keep sinking The

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Speaker 1: United States keep sinking boats in the Caribbean, and they

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Speaker 1: keep trying to call it something other than war. Right,

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Speaker 1: it's not a war, but it's not a law enforcement action.

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Speaker 1: They've now carried out seven military strikes and suspected drug

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Speaker 1: smuggling vessels off the coast of Venezuela. The latest strike

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Speaker 1: has left three people and there were two survivors captured

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Speaker 1: and they have been quietly. This is the two survivors

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Speaker 1: that were patriated to their home countries. One is Columbia

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Speaker 1: Colombian and one was Econdorian. So why did they do this? Well,

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Speaker 1: that last decision to send them home rather than bring

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Speaker 1: them into US custody. Right, Why aren't we boarding these

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Speaker 1: boats and seizing this stuff? Right? Why are we just

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Speaker 1: deciding to destroy it? Well, it's the most revealing clue

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Speaker 1: yet about what's really going on here. So here's what

429
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 1: officials said on the repatriation decision. Officials said that this

430
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 1: was a humanitarian gesture, but to legal experts, repatriation looks

431
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: like something else. Entirely. It is a way to avoid

432
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: tough questions about the legal status of these survivors. Are

433
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:45,640
Speaker 1: they criminals? Are they enemy combatants? Remember we went through

434
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 1: this during nine to eleven and getmo some of this

435
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 1: language is going to sound familiar to those of you

436
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: that remember all of those decisions about people. How are

437
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 1: they picked up these terrorists, these Alcaedo folks? Anyway, So criminals,

438
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: enemy combatants? Are they victims? Because the answer matters a ton.

439
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: It determines what laws end up applying. Do our laws apply,

440
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 1: do maritime laws apply? Do military courts have the upper

441
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: hand here? If they're treated as combatants, then the US

442
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: is admitting it's an armed conflict. If they're treated as criminals,

443
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:28,159
Speaker 1: then they have rights to do process, to counsel, to trial.

444
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 1: That pesky constitution suddenly is in the way. Right by

445
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: sending them back to their home countries, the administration doesn't

446
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,640
Speaker 1: have to choose. It avoids putting anyone in US custody

447
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 1: and therefore avoids the legal test case that could force

448
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,360
Speaker 1: a court to decide whether America is now at war

449
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: with Venezuela in the Caribbean. I'll tell you this, this

450
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: is at some point, this is going to end up

451
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 1: in our court. Anyway. You will have perhaps the families

452
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 1: of victims claim, hey, they were fishing, they weren't part

453
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: of this. Maybe they were simply a worker on one

454
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: of these boats. Maybe they were hired hands. They weren't

455
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: necessarily part of the of the of of whatever the

456
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: narco business that we claim we know what's happening was

457
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 1: a part of. And it's likely they will try to

458
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,400
Speaker 1: They're gonna look for some sort of uh, they'll probably

459
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 1: be looking for some sort of monetary justice, and it

460
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: could very well happen in our courts. So we're trying

461
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 1: to do this repatriation to avoid that. That's what survivors

462
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 1: what about with those that didn't survive, just saying this

463
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: is a legal quagmire that is coming, I promise you.

464
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: So the administration Pete Egseth has been pretty blunt. Here's

465
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 1: what he said on the Sunday shows this week. The

466
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 1: United States military will treat these organizations like the terrorists

467
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 1: they are. They will be hunted and killed just like

468
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: al Qaeda. So he is claiming these are terrorist organizations.

469
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 2: Now.

470
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: To truly be a terrorist organization, the basic definition means

471
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: you're using let's say you're narco terrorists. I means you're

472
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: using your drug money to essentially fund this sort of

473
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 1: political uprising. What political uprisings being funded here? This may

474
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: be simply a criminal enterprise, but I digress. Here's another thing.

475
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: Hag Seth admitted though on Sunday, we've sunk seven boats.

476
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: We've seized nineteen tons of coke. No fentanyl yet, but

477
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: that's next. Whoabody what this whole thing is supposed to

478
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 1: be about fentanyl. You haven't gotten any fentanyl yet. There's

479
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 1: a reason for that. Ventanyl ain't a part of Venezuela's

480
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 1: drug trade. Then I'm going to get to that, But

481
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 1: no fentanyl yet. It totally undercuts the entire public rationale

482
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: of what Trump and Ruby have been saying about why

483
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 1: this is legal and about why it should be done

484
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: the way they're doing it. The fentanyl crisis, which we

485
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 1: do have one, has nothing to do with Venezuela or Columbia.

486
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: It has everything to do with Mexico and China. But

487
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: that's not where we're focused here. So none of these strikes,

488
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,239
Speaker 1: they at least are admitting it. You got to give

489
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: haig Seth credit have actually stopped the flow of fedel

490
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: because they haven't found any fentyl. That's not where it is.

491
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 1: It's Chinese ingredients being manufactured in Mexico. We've known this

492
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: forever and ain't Venezuela. This is an obsession to get

493
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 1: rid of Maduro. Frankly, it's a worthy obsession. I empathize

494
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 1: with it. He's illegally in office. He lost an election,

495
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: a small d democratic election. The lack, frankly, that of

496
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:05,719
Speaker 1: international community of coming down harder on Venezuela over Maduro

497
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: essentially not abiding by the elections, has been extraordinarily disappointed.

498
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: Why this, If this is the you could argue, you

499
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 1: could make this the rationale. I don't know if a

500
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: lot of people would love it, because I do think

501
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: one of the reasons Trump has a has been able

502
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 1: to build MAGA and his base is by at least

503
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: rhetorically claiming that America First means we're not going to

504
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 1: get involved in other people's business, and in this case,

505
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:43,719
Speaker 1: Venezuela would be other people's business. But the Defense secretary

506
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: admitted they've yet to seize any fennol here, so you're

507
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: you're essentially bullshit. Rationale for this is going to come

508
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: home to rust. Marco Rubio defended the strikes. He called them,

509
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: quote lethal strikes on drug vessels operated by designated narco

510
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 1: terrorist organizations. Well, it's a designation that's not quite made up,

511
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 1: but kind of because we've never really had a narco

512
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: terrorist organization that we've that we've gone after. You could

513
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: loosely claim al Qaeda was narco terrorists because they certainly

514
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: they certainly had the poppy trade in Afghanistan, and certainly

515
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: they were using that money to fund their war within Afghanistan.

516
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: Now Rubio has been he's trying to be extraordinary careful

517
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: in what he says in public. He insists that hits

518
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 1: are targeted, that they're not invasions, and that the president

519
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 1: is not is simply waging war on narco terrorists, not

520
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: on the people of Venezuela. And now here's what's fascinating.

521
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 1: This latest boat that they that they bombed wasn't even

522
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: head of the United States. Rubio noted the latest sub

523
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: was likely bound for Trinidad and Tobago or some other

524
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 1: country in the Caribbean, not the US mainland. He had

525
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: another inconvenient fact, if the goal is to stop drugs

526
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: from reaching American streets, so here's where the story gets

527
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: even a bit murcurer. Congress has not authorized any of this.

528
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: What the administration is trying to do is use older

529
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: authorization use of military force. Other aumfs out there the

530
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 1: big one from two thousand and one, which never named

531
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: a single organization in it. This is what's been used

532
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 1: for all sorts of operations by multiple presidents, even as

533
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 1: multiple even as a both Obama and Trump and Biden,

534
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 1: all three of them at some point admitted that this

535
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 1: AAMF needs to change, but they didn't exactly urge Congress

536
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: to do it. They said, yeah, if Congress sends me

537
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: something I would I would sign it. Congress has not

538
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: been able because it is a It is a fake.

539
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: This is one of those fake issues in Washington where

540
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: everybody says that what the correct answer, but behind the

541
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 1: scenes they do everything they can to make sure that

542
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: answer doesn't come to fruition, right, and getting rid of

543
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 1: this authorization Use of Military Force Post nine to eleven

544
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: that has been used for all sorts of questionable military

545
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 1: activity every time there's been bipartisan efforts to get rid

546
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 1: of it, and just when those bipartisan efforts happened, there's

547
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: bipartisan efforts to kill it, and there's always enough force

548
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: to kill it behind the scenes. But it makes it

549
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 1: look like, oh they're trying, but I digress. So here's

550
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: what various members of Congress have said. None of them

551
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 1: believe this has been authorized. Mark Kelley, Democrat, said after

552
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 1: a classified briefing on these issues. He said they had

553
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: a very hard time explaining the legal rationale and the

554
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 1: constitutionality of doing it. He said the brief we got

555
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 1: referring to the US Senate had a tremendous number of

556
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 1: holes in it. Tim Kaine went further, Tim Kaine has

557
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: been on this trying to repeal the original AMF or

558
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,760
Speaker 1: redo it. He's been trying to do it for essentially

559
00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 1: most of his time in the A Senate. If my

560
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 1: colleagues think of war with Venezuela is a good idea,

561
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: they need to pass an AUMF about just that stop

562
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 1: the administration from dragging our country into an unauthorized and

563
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: escalating military conflict. And then there's course the loudest Republican

564
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 1: who's questioned these things. It's Ran Paul, much more of

565
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 1: a libertarian and frankly, very consistent on these issues in general.

566
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 1: He said, all of these people have been blown up

567
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,800
Speaker 1: without us knowing their name, without any evidence of a crime.

568
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: We are simply supposed to take the word of Pete

569
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 1: Hagsat Marco Rubie. All of these folks who are not

570
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 1: under oath. When they're saying these things, they're simply on camera.

571
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 1: Keep that in mind. So so far, there's been no

572
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 1: formal vote, no war powers authorization, no clear oversight, just

573
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 1: a White House declaring an armed conflict with cartels and

574
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:53,919
Speaker 1: expanding operations under that banner. By redefining traffickers as unlawful combatants,

575
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 1: the administration claims the right to use lethal force without

576
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 1: the normal checks that apply to law enforcement operations or

577
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: to wars formally declared by Congress. Essentially, by having this

578
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: murky nature trumpet, we're just green lighting just the killing

579
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: of folks without having to make a legal case that

580
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 1: we can do this. It's pretty unconstitutional, it's pretty undemocratic,

581
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 1: and it is a terrible precedent for us to say,

582
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: I mean, who are we to ever lecture any other

583
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 1: lecture China on the Wigers. Who are we to lecture

584
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 1: Putin on Ukraine and his sphere of influence for the

585
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: way we're behaving in the Western hemisphere Here? There are

586
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 1: legal ways to do this. The case against Maduro is strong,

587
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 1: make the goddamn case against Maduro and is illegal co

588
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,320
Speaker 1: opting of the government itself. He lost a free and

589
00:36:55,400 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 1: fair election. There are actually reasons to do this instead

590
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 1: of pretending it's something having to do with fentanyl when

591
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: it has nothing to do with fentyl. The administration's argument

592
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 1: is that these maritime operations right there claiming it's a

593
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 1: direct response to the overdose crisis in America and that

594
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: these cartels are killing Americans, so this is self defense.

595
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 1: But here's the disconnect. Fentanyl, the drug responsible for the

596
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:27,800
Speaker 1: nearly two hundred thousand US deaths last year, is not

597
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: coming for the Caribbean or Venezuela, according to the DEA.

598
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 1: You know, again, this administration struggles facts sometimes, but there's

599
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 1: actual facts that sit out there, and there's data that

600
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 1: tells you where this fricking fentanyl's coming from. More than

601
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 1: ninety percent of fentanyl enters through US Mexico lands ports

602
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 1: of entry. It gets through the regular port of entry

603
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: because it's been impossible to seize. We seize it, but

604
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,760
Speaker 1: other stuff gets through. This fentanyl is produced by Mexican

605
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 1: car tells not these Venezuelan cartels, and they're using precursor

606
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 1: chemicals that they import from China, all of which we

607
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:13,320
Speaker 1: do know already, all of which the administration does cherry

608
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 1: pick whenever they want to get tough on Mexico or

609
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 1: whenever they want to get tough on China. But what

610
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 1: they're doing here with Venezuela is manufacturing an argument. That

611
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,840
Speaker 1: is an argument if you wanted to make it with Mexico.

612
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: But we're not. We're not going down that road. That's

613
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:34,280
Speaker 1: a different story. They're just essentially trying, and they realize

614
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: they're hoping that you, the American taxpayer, and you the

615
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 1: American public, is just going to conflate Ah, the Venezuelans, Mexico.

616
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:47,839
Speaker 1: It's all the same. That's how stupid this administration thinks

617
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 1: you are. They think you're this stupid. They think you're

618
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 1: that you're going to be able to say all drug

619
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 1: smugglers are the same. They all look alike. That's how

620
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: stupid they think you are. Nobody says we don't have

621
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 1: a cocaine problem still in Colombia, a cocaine trafficking issue

622
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: in Venezuela, but it is not the one driving American

623
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 1: overdose deaths. If this is the rationale, and you better

624
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:21,879
Speaker 1: be declaring war against these Mexican cartels. Basically, the current

625
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 1: US campaign has focused on geography. Marco Rubio has been

626
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 1: obsessed with Venezuela. Understandably, he's a South Floridian.

627
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 2: Okay.

628
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: I always said that there's all sorts of biases that

629
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 1: people have. Some of it is just bias from where

630
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: you're from. I grew up down there. I get it.

631
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: I have Venezuelan friends. I see this. This guy's bad.

632
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 1: We've destroyed a great country, an incredible culture, and he

633
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 1: is it is. We got to do more to get

634
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 1: the world community, get this guy out of here. There's

635
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 1: a variety of ways to do it. This seems to

636
00:39:54,920 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: be a way that risks American lives. One two risks

637
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,359
Speaker 1: creating a martyr. I mean, we're gonna we haven't ruled

638
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 1: out striking targets in Venezuela. My guess is will say,

639
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 1: it's places where they're manufacturing the drug. This ain't gonna

640
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: be the jungles of Venezuela. Ain't gonna be an easy

641
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 1: place to fight a war. And you know, let's you

642
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 1: know it was this is how we get Mission creep.

643
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: Go look at the history in the very beginning of Vietnam. Okay,

644
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:40,839
Speaker 1: this is how Mission Creep happens. But let's go back

645
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 1: to what this repatriation really reveals here, because it really

646
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: is the Big Toe. The United States is now flying

647
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 1: B fifty twos over the Caribbean, deploying Special operation helicopters,

648
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 1: sinking boats, killing people. It calls narco terras. But when

649
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 1: two of those survivors are captured alive, they quietly are

650
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: sent back to their home countries, out of sight, out

651
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: of US, and out of court. What the decision tells

652
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 1: us is that the administration understands they're in a legal

653
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 1: gray area that they're operating in. And if these men

654
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 1: were brought back here, judges and journalists would start asking questions,

655
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 1: and they don't want to have to answer those questions.

656
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 1: They'd have to answer questions about evidence, about jurisdiction, and

657
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: what rules would actually apply. Congress hasn't authorized this war.

658
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 1: None of these strikes are legal, the targets aren't attacking

659
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 1: the United States, the drugs that carry aren't the ones

660
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:27,800
Speaker 1: killing Americans, and yet the White House keeps calling the

661
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 1: self defense, which brings us to the term you've heard

662
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,439
Speaker 1: the President and his cabinet repeat over and over again,

663
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,839
Speaker 1: narco terrorists. What the hell does the term mean? Where

664
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 1: did it come from? Okay, well, let me tell you

665
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 1: it's certainly here's the actual definition for Merriam Webster terrorism

666
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 1: financed by profits from illegal drug trafficking, right, meaning it's

667
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 1: the drugs are the drugs are sold to finance the terrorism.

668
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 1: Is that what's happening? All right? It's a generic term

669
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: narco terrorism, and it refers to the nexus between terrorism, insurgency,

670
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 1: and drug trafficking. So, as a working definition, a narco

671
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:13,880
Speaker 1: terrorist is a person or group that uses drug trafficking

672
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 1: or profits funded to funder carried out acts of violence, intimidation,

673
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 1: or political corrosion, blurring the lines between criminal and politically

674
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: motivated violence. Can you make an argument Maduro's doing that?

675
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:31,280
Speaker 1: Maybe you could, Right, Maduro is certainly repressing his people,

676
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 1: he's illegally in office, and he certainly has some sort

677
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 1: of influence and control over some of these gangs. Now,

678
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 1: it's not a brand new term. It was first used

679
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 1: actually in Peru Tero Rissimo. It was used by the

680
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 1: Peruvian president in nineteen eighty three to describe attacks by

681
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 1: traffickers on anti narcotics police. But it isn't clear the

682
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 1: first time the US this government ever really formally used

683
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:04,879
Speaker 1: it was this year. The executive order that Donald Trump

684
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 1: signed on his first day back in office uses the

685
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 1: vehicle of designating cartels and other organizations as force foreign

686
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 1: terrorist organization and specifically designated global terrorists. So essentially, it

687
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,799
Speaker 1: was trying to create They created a definition to fit

688
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:28,759
Speaker 1: the already previous authorized use of military force. That's what

689
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: this is all about. This does not mean Maduro is

690
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 1: a victim here. Okay, I don't want that. I'm not

691
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:42,359
Speaker 1: interested in that coming across. But the United States has

692
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 1: succeeded being the leader of the free world because we rationalized, justify,

693
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 1: and we make legal arguments for what we do. This

694
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 1: administration doesn't believe in anything having to do with this Constitution.

695
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 1: They view the Constitution as an impediment to be worked around,

696
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 1: and they're always in search of a loophole in the

697
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: Constitution rather than upholding the spirit and the values of it.

698
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 1: And this is a clear and present danger. You see

699
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 1: what I did there, This is a clear and present

700
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:17,319
Speaker 1: danger for the US's influence over Look, he's now mad

701
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:21,800
Speaker 1: at the Colombian president. Look this guy. They're sort of

702
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't the friendliest Colombian leader to get

703
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 1: elected that's true. He seems to be a bit more

704
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: lenient with the more socialist leaning Latin American leaders. But

705
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 1: you know what, he's unpopular in his own country because

706
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 1: what he promised has not come to fruition. He is

707
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 1: likely to not survive politically. This is a strong Columbia

708
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 1: is a strong democracy. The last thing we want to

709
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 1: do is create a martyr out of this current president.

710
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:58,359
Speaker 1: And I would just warn this administration if backing out

711
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 1: of legal deals that we've made with the small This

712
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 1: man is a democratic small the democratic elected president of Colombia.

713
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:12,320
Speaker 1: This is not like Maduro the risk of suddenly giving

714
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 1: him because Colombians don't want to look like that any

715
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:21,240
Speaker 1: of their leaders are simply puppets of this administration, puppets

716
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 1: of the United States. The Trump's actions while he's trying

717
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 1: to send a message to Petro to work with the

718
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 1: United States instead of working quiet. Look, he's got his

719
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 1: own migration issues coming from Venezuela. You know, you think

720
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 1: we've got issues of Venezuela's coming over the border because

721
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:39,840
Speaker 1: they're trying to flee the oppression of Madurea. So does Colombia.

722
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: But this, you know, our history in Latin America is

723
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 1: atrocious because we just go down there, always worried only

724
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: about our interests, never seeming to be concerned about the

725
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 1: people themselves, and we find a way to make more

726
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 1: enemies out of this place than we do allies. It

727
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:03,840
Speaker 1: is been you know, fricking China has more allies in

728
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 1: South America than the United States does. That is a

729
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: big problem. And doing legally questionable military action like this

730
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:18,399
Speaker 1: only makes it harder for the United States to sort

731
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: of win back Latin America into the US ecosystem rather

732
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 1: as they're drifting away into the China orbit. So I'm

733
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:29,840
Speaker 1: going to stop there. My guest is Eric Berger. He

734
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 1: is frankly one of the best space journalists that's out there.

735
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 1: Those of you that have known me a long time

736
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 1: know that this is sort of a one of my

737
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 1: many policy obsessions when I can do a deep dive

738
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: on space. We're in the middle of a debate, right,

739
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:49,360
Speaker 1: you know, do we go to Mars? What do we

740
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:51,800
Speaker 1: do with the Moon? We're in this race with China

741
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 1: now to put a base on the Moon. What's the

742
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 1: status of that? Is NASA up to it? The privatization

743
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:02,800
Speaker 1: of spaces that set a back or giving us a

744
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 1: hand forward. All of those questions I deal with with

745
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 1: Eric there, but he's also a meteorologist, so we also

746
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 1: talked a little bit about weather journalism in general, extreme

747
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 1: weather and science reporting generically. My point is it is

748
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 1: if you're kind of a space geek, kind of a

749
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 1: weather geek, you know, this is going to be the

750
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 1: most political conversation. If you're just coming, you know, I

751
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 1: don't always want to have these hard left right conversations.

752
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:34,879
Speaker 1: That's what my monologue was for today, If you will,

753
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 1: this conversation is about what's happening in space and the

754
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 1: geopolitical fight essentially for space supremacy. So we'll sneak in

755
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 1: a break when we come back, Eric Berger, and then

756
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:51,839
Speaker 1: on the other side, it's the toodcast time machine. It's

757
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 1: a doozy today. It is not Nixon related. That's my

758
00:47:55,719 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 1: only clue with that. I'll see. On the other side, well,

759
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: joining me now to talk a little bit about the

760
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 1: space race and maybe a little bit of politics behind

761
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 1: our space policy is Eric Berger of Ours Technica. He's

762
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:30,440
Speaker 1: been a space and weather and reporter for decades Houston

763
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 1: Chronicle back in the day. He's got a degree in astronomy,

764
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 1: and a master's in journalism, and he's a certified meteorologist,

765
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 1: but he writes quite a bit these days on the

766
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 1: privatization of space policy. You name it. Eric, Welcome to

767
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:50,280
Speaker 1: the podcast.

768
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:51,439
Speaker 2: Thanks very much, Chuck.

769
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:54,319
Speaker 1: Great to be here, hopefully I said enough of your

770
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 1: resume there. Do you feel like I covered it all?

771
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:56,839
Speaker 1: Anything I miss?

772
00:48:57,719 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 2: I like space and I like to write about it.

773
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 2: So that's about you need to know.

774
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:03,799
Speaker 1: Excellent. Well, I do too, I just don't know as

775
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 1: much and I always want to know more. But what

776
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 1: triggered me wanting to book you was a report you

777
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 1: did in about mid August where it was we're essentially

778
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 1: China's on track to beat us back to the moon.

779
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:26,280
Speaker 1: And it felt almost like the culmination of the pivot

780
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 1: that I think Elon Musk convinced Trump of, which is

781
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:32,839
Speaker 1: move away from the Moon and move towards Mars Am.

782
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 1: I over simplifying it, I mean somewhat.

783
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a pretty complicated story, but the bottom line

784
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 2: is that China has decided, for geopolitical reasons, especially like

785
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 2: the United States did in the nineteen sixties, that demonstrating

786
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 2: a lunar landing would be really important to bolstering their

787
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,759
Speaker 2: credibility as you know, a superpower at least on par

788
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 2: with the United States, if not exceeding it. And so

789
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:59,279
Speaker 2: there has been set up this so called space race

790
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:01,759
Speaker 2: between you states in China and the US has played

791
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 2: along our space leaders, our political leaders have kind of

792
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 2: played along into it, such as it now we're in

793
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 2: this competition to put humans on the moon, you know,

794
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 2: buyer before the end of this decade, and at this

795
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 2: point China seems to be have pulled ahead in terms

796
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 2: of the hardware and planning it has.

797
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 1: Look I was down at Kennedy's Space Center in Theory

798
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 1: to interview Bill Nelson. This is back when I was

799
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:28,840
Speaker 1: at Meet the Press before the Artemist launch, and of

800
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:32,840
Speaker 1: course we set up the interview and finish the interview,

801
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:38,320
Speaker 1: and the Artemist launch gets postponed. But it is it

802
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:40,759
Speaker 1: did seem to be more of a priority, is it

803
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:44,240
Speaker 1: Is it less of a priority now on the NASA

804
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:46,319
Speaker 1: side of things when it comes to Artemis and comes

805
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:47,279
Speaker 1: to getting back to the Moon.

806
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 2: No, it's still the same. I mean, they're still pursuing

807
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:52,919
Speaker 2: the Artomist program. We're gonna have the Artomist two launch

808
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 2: probably next February or March with with actual humans going

809
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 2: around the Moon. The problem is that there's a huge

810
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 2: leap from the Artemist one and two missions to Artemist three,

811
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 2: which is actually the Lunar landing. And and you know Nelson,

812
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 2: who I liked and obviously did you know, was qualified

813
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:16,719
Speaker 2: for the position as NASA administer, They didn't ever really

814
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:20,240
Speaker 2: tell the whole truth about the complexity of the Artomist program,

815
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 2: the challenges that NASA was having, and you don't really

816
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 2: hear that truth from the new appointee to lead NASA,

817
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 2: Sean Duffy. And and the reality is that that that

818
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 2: we just are not developing our program quickly enough to

819
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 2: match what China's doing.

820
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 1: They're always there's a there's a geographical location that they

821
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:45,440
Speaker 1: want to get to, and so do we want to

822
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 1: get to? And so do we know where the Chinese

823
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 1: want to go on the Moon? And are we be

824
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:53,880
Speaker 1: concerned that if they get there, essentially they're going to

825
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 1: claim it.

826
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:58,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, So so China and both China United States are

827
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:00,279
Speaker 2: interested in the soft pole of the Moon, and that's

828
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:04,440
Speaker 2: where it's believed that most of the water ice exists

829
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 2: in these permanently shadowed craters. It's not clear whether the

830
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:11,200
Speaker 2: first Chinese human landings is going to take place at

831
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 2: the soft Pole. I suspect since it's easier to land

832
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:16,880
Speaker 2: in the equatoil regions of the Moon, they won't go

833
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 2: to the poles. But eventually, yes, we would like to

834
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:21,960
Speaker 2: get to the poles. And you know, the reality is

835
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 2: that it's kind of a sweet spot where you can

836
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 2: get lots of daytime sunshine to drive solar energy, but

837
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 2: then also have relative close access to these permanently shadowed regions.

838
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 2: Basically go into the crater and it's kind of behind

839
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 2: these walls where you never really get sun, so it's

840
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:40,919
Speaker 2: super cold and it trapped moisture and ice over time.

841
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 2: And that's not a big area we're talking about, you know,

842
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 2: you know, dozens of kilometers across, so it's not so

843
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 2: like you could stake a claim to really the the

844
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 2: coveted areas of the Moon, and it's not like a

845
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 2: Texas sized area.

846
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:03,400
Speaker 1: What's the Are there minerals on the Moon that we

847
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 1: want or do we want to base the Moon or

848
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 1: is it both?

849
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:09,759
Speaker 2: It's really not entirely clear, right, So there are some

850
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,880
Speaker 2: companies that will say there's helium three which is valuable

851
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:18,880
Speaker 2: for cooling and for superconducting cooling, and potentially for energy.

852
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:21,239
Speaker 2: That's not at all clear to me. The business case

853
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:24,880
Speaker 2: closes for that. There's water ice at the Moon, and

854
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:27,359
Speaker 2: if you could harvest that and process it, you could

855
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 2: turn that into rocket fuel. It's got liquid hydrogen and oxygen,

856
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 2: which is useful, but again it's not clear economically whether

857
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 2: that's the base case. Other potential applications are space tourism,

858
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 2: like if you could actually build some kind of a

859
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:47,880
Speaker 2: hotel or resort on the Moon. I think that that

860
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:52,600
Speaker 2: would be pretty popular. There are military applications the Moon,

861
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:56,880
Speaker 2: and certainly Cyslinar space is a very convenient high ground

862
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 2: looking back at Earth. And so there's all these potential applications.

863
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:05,480
Speaker 2: It's not clear to me whether there's any killer one,

864
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 2: but you know, it is the next step for humans

865
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:09,399
Speaker 2: as a species going out there.

866
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:09,719
Speaker 1: And so.

867
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 2: If you want to say that you are the predominant

868
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 2: space faring species on planet Earth or nation, you need

869
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 2: to really have a presence, a strong presence of the

870
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 2: Moon over the next decade or two.

871
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 1: Is there a it is is basing. I mean, in

872
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 1: order to get to Mars more conveniently would it make

873
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:33,279
Speaker 1: more sense to launch from the Moon.

874
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 2: No, not really. The starship vehicle that SpaceX is building

875
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 2: Elon Musk is building is really the only credible Mars

876
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 2: vehicle on the horizon, and their plan is to refuel

877
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:47,319
Speaker 2: in lower th orbit and not go to the Moon

878
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 2: at all.

879
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:50,040
Speaker 1: So they think they can do it that way. It's

880
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:54,360
Speaker 1: not you know, look, I for all mankind was it

881
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:56,880
Speaker 1: was a junkie on that, and that one of my

882
00:54:57,640 --> 00:54:59,799
Speaker 1: you know what, when they get to Mars they use

883
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:04,960
Speaker 1: a essentially a solar I don't know if you what

884
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 1: I call it. I guess almost like a sale, right,

885
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:10,279
Speaker 1: a solar sale. And I was fascinated with it. And

886
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:13,240
Speaker 1: then they were always really good about what's the science

887
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:16,399
Speaker 1: behind this? Is this possible? And that that it came

888
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 1: across it, that it's more possible than maybe it appeared.

889
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 1: Is what are the different ways to feel to it?

890
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 1: Is solar power a realistic way to do it?

891
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 2: For propulsion, not really, but potentially nuclear electric propulsion is possible.

892
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 2: The problem solar electric propulsion is that it's very fuel efficient.

893
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 2: It SIPs fuel, but it takes a long time. So

894
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:44,760
Speaker 2: if you're sending cargo to Mars, that's a great solution.

895
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:47,239
Speaker 2: But if you're a human and you want to get

896
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:50,360
Speaker 2: there in you know, four to six months and not

897
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:53,040
Speaker 2: four to six years, and you've really got to go

898
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 2: chemical propulsion or nuclear electric propulsion or something like that.

899
00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:00,360
Speaker 2: And there's are certainly architectures where you can go to

900
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:03,400
Speaker 2: the Moon and sort of build basically as spacecraft in

901
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 2: lunar orbit for fuel it there and then go from

902
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:09,840
Speaker 2: the Moon to Mars. But you know, those are all

903
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 2: theoretical right now. And so, as I said, the only

904
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 2: company really building hardware that could go to Mars is

905
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 2: the Starship Vehicle and that has that has plenty of flaws,

906
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 2: but they're actually building things, which is refresht.

907
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:27,360
Speaker 1: So in sort of in our first ten minutes of

908
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 1: this conversation, is there is there a real reason to

909
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:34,320
Speaker 1: be on the Moon other than flexing.

910
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:38,440
Speaker 2: I think in the near term, flexing is the reason

911
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 2: to be there. Okay, that it goes back to like

912
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 2: it was in the sixties with the first base races.

913
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 2: It's all about geopolitics, right it was. We were trying

914
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:49,719
Speaker 2: to demonstrate the world that we were superior, and the

915
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:51,840
Speaker 2: lunar landing was a very dramatic way.

916
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:52,080
Speaker 1: To do that.

917
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:55,120
Speaker 2: So it's kind of back to that, and there are

918
00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:59,440
Speaker 2: potential reasons for lunar activity, but we're not really going

919
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:01,840
Speaker 2: to know until we go there, put boots on the

920
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:05,560
Speaker 2: ground and do stuff with robots and humans and really

921
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 2: figure things out.

922
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 1: Is there a space treaty that has any sort of

923
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 1: jurisdiction over how countries have and I guess did China

924
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:19,160
Speaker 1: sign on to it? I mean, what is there anything

925
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:24,160
Speaker 1: that governs the Moon at this point between countries.

926
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's the Outer Space Treaty signed in nineteen

927
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 2: sixty seven by all the major players, including the United

928
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:33,200
Speaker 2: States and China, which basically says no country can own

929
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 2: the Moon. It's kind of analogous to Antarctica here on Earth.

930
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 1: But we're questioning that right now, aren't we a little? Well?

931
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 2: I mean, who knows right this what this administration is

932
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 2: going to do. But there is nominally no one who's

933
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:53,560
Speaker 2: planning to like stake ownership of on the Moon. Now,

934
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 2: the United States did several years ago basically create legislation

935
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:00,160
Speaker 2: allowing it. So if you're a private company and you

936
00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 2: want to go harvest a resource on the Moon, you

937
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:06,800
Speaker 2: can do that, but you can't, like, say, we own

938
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:09,200
Speaker 2: these six hundred acres and you know, we're going to

939
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 2: build a resort. It's that all is a little bit fuzzy.

940
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 2: But but yeah, there is a treaty and it is

941
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 2: nominally respected by all of the players.

942
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:19,120
Speaker 1: So Waite, I want to go back to what you

943
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 1: just said that if a private space company finds a

944
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:26,720
Speaker 1: mineral that they want to harvest, how how do they

945
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 1: stake the claim on it?

946
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 2: They go there, they build their factory, and they start

947
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 2: harvesting the resources. They just can't say that this is

948
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 2: you know, this land is owned in perpetuity by you know,

949
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:40,280
Speaker 2: the solar harvesting company you know, or whatever.

950
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:43,200
Speaker 1: But who are they getting their license? Who are they

951
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:45,080
Speaker 1: getting their permission to do this in this case?

952
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:47,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and.

953
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 1: And this is acceptable within the terms of the treaty.

954
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:54,120
Speaker 2: I mean, if China was going to go to the

955
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:58,600
Speaker 2: Moon and harvest ice from the poles like we would

956
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 2: not or could not stop them, like the treaty allows that.

957
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:05,960
Speaker 2: It's a little bit fuzzy. I mean this is bear

958
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 2: in mind, this was written six decades ago.

959
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 1: Right right. Is there any movement to revisit it or

960
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:13,840
Speaker 1: does nobody want to touch it?

961
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 2: There is movement to revisit it. But there are more

962
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:20,920
Speaker 2: pressing matters in sort of global space diplomacy that kind

963
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:23,160
Speaker 2: of the top One of them is debris and lowerth orbit.

964
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:26,640
Speaker 2: You know space ax Elon Musk has eight thousand, seven

965
00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 2: thousand satellites and low werth orbit flying around. China's starting

966
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:33,480
Speaker 2: to launch a lot more satellites. Jeff Bezos is now launching,

967
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:35,920
Speaker 2: has launched more than one hundred satellites this year. And

968
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 2: so in want group, so like there's all these objects

969
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:40,000
Speaker 2: flying around to we want to make sure we're communicating.

970
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:42,200
Speaker 2: I think that's the top priority right now in terms

971
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 2: of space and that I.

972
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:48,520
Speaker 1: Mean, how how crowded is it up there? And is

973
00:59:48,560 --> 00:59:52,000
Speaker 1: there a point where it's getting too crowded.

974
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:55,320
Speaker 2: It really depends on who you ask, Chuck, because some

975
00:59:56,160 --> 00:59:58,680
Speaker 2: space environments will say it's already two crowded.

976
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:01,600
Speaker 1: And environmentalists that's an interesting phrase.

977
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 2: They exist, okay, and they do look at things like

978
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:09,920
Speaker 2: glorboral debris and worry about sort of runaway collisions called

979
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:15,640
Speaker 2: the Kessler syndrome. But what you see when you look

980
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:17,680
Speaker 2: at the data is that the number of collision of

981
01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:21,200
Speaker 2: avoidance maneuvers over time has gone up quite a bit

982
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:25,040
Speaker 2: and the real concern is that as the United States

983
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:27,080
Speaker 2: and China get more and more satellites up there, are

984
01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:30,120
Speaker 2: they talking to one another and Russia has assets up

985
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:33,440
Speaker 2: there too, Are the governments talking to one another and

986
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 2: making sure that that everyone has the best data about

987
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:40,680
Speaker 2: these objects to avoid collisions. Yeah, so space is very

988
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 2: big and it can accommodate a lot of satellites, but

989
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:45,600
Speaker 2: you need increasingly sophisticated traffic management up there.

990
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:48,760
Speaker 1: Well, there's traffic management, but there's also I mean, I

991
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 1: did a magazine story, sort of a TV magazine show

992
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:57,680
Speaker 1: that we had at meet the press on the next war,

993
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 1: and it was the next war starts in space. Was

994
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 1: the conclusion that that's the most likely first shots would

995
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:10,440
Speaker 1: be fired at satellites in space, not necessarily shots fired

996
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:16,920
Speaker 1: here on Earth. So it is it's one of the

997
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:20,560
Speaker 1: rationales for the Space force. It was my understanding. But

998
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:24,440
Speaker 1: what is the vulnerability up there? And how concerned should

999
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:25,000
Speaker 1: we be about it?

1000
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:27,640
Speaker 2: First of all, I think that premise is exactly right.

1001
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:31,720
Speaker 2: We have seen certainly the war in Ukraine has opened

1002
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 2: the eyes of all the major governments, including the United

1003
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:37,880
Speaker 2: States and China, about the value of space assets, and

1004
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 2: in fact, Chinese government saw the value of starlink, like

1005
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:46,080
Speaker 2: how well that worked and how useful it was, and

1006
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:49,240
Speaker 2: like they immediately sort of redoubled their plans to build

1007
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 2: a similar type of constellation. And we've seen it through

1008
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 2: commercial synthetic capture radar and other things. So that's exactly right.

1009
01:01:56,400 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 2: These space assets are increased, you know, very vulnerable, and

1010
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:03,400
Speaker 2: over the last twelve months, we've seen active maneuvering by

1011
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:07,360
Speaker 2: Russian and Chinese satellites to fly up to US vehicles

1012
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:10,560
Speaker 2: and like make close pass bys, like.

1013
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:12,400
Speaker 1: Just almost like the way you would like take a

1014
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:15,960
Speaker 1: fighter jet and say hiyah, yeah, like you know, we're here.

1015
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:19,120
Speaker 2: Two submarines passing like you know, in the deep. It's

1016
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 2: exact same kind of thing, although maneuvering in space in

1017
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:24,480
Speaker 2: terms of the energy required is much much more difficult

1018
01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:27,680
Speaker 2: to change orbits, but we've seen those kinds of maneuvers

1019
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:30,600
Speaker 2: and the United States has talked a lot more about

1020
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:33,920
Speaker 2: offensive capabilities in space. Up until a few years ago,

1021
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:37,280
Speaker 2: it was much more about protecting our assets through defensive

1022
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:40,440
Speaker 2: mechanisms and proliferation. So for them now it's more like

1023
01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:43,680
Speaker 2: they're talking about putting offensive capabilities in space. So we

1024
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:47,760
Speaker 2: are clearly moving to a much more contested environment in space.

1025
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:53,080
Speaker 1: It seemed like fifteen years ago we were we were

1026
01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:55,640
Speaker 1: it was more likely that we were going to behave

1027
01:02:55,800 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 1: jointly with other nations. You know, the relationship with the

1028
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:03,480
Speaker 1: Russians that was pretty mature. When it came to our

1029
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:08,520
Speaker 1: space partnership, we certainly had the EU partnership. Yet all

1030
01:03:08,560 --> 01:03:11,760
Speaker 1: these nations sort of all kind of working together on this.

1031
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:16,720
Speaker 1: Is this just sort of China breaking off and then

1032
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:20,600
Speaker 1: everybody becoming nationalistic again? I mean we were we not

1033
01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:21,960
Speaker 1: on that path for a while.

1034
01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:25,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, things were, things were kind of yeah, if that's

1035
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:27,200
Speaker 2: a very astute observation, I.

1036
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:29,320
Speaker 1: Think Star Trek e almost right like we were on

1037
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:31,760
Speaker 1: our way to being you know, the vision of what

1038
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 1: Star Trek show. I mean, all the nations work together,

1039
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:35,800
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know if we're on.

1040
01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:37,560
Speaker 2: Our way to Star Trek that would be sort of

1041
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:40,200
Speaker 2: a really a glass half full view of areas. But

1042
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:42,640
Speaker 2: but you are, you are a stute that certainly we

1043
01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:45,760
Speaker 2: were in a much more peaceful posture. A couple things

1044
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:48,240
Speaker 2: have changed. First of all, the US Russian relationship has

1045
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:50,600
Speaker 2: deteriorated a lot over the last ten or fifteen years

1046
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:54,800
Speaker 2: for obvious reasons. And then and then the rise of

1047
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:58,960
Speaker 2: China as a real space power has changed things dramatically.

1048
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:02,720
Speaker 2: They they are doing things on both the civil and

1049
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:06,440
Speaker 2: military side. They are very impressive and have lots of capabilities,

1050
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:08,120
Speaker 2: and that has really changed the game. So you've got

1051
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:10,560
Speaker 2: three main powers. But then you've also got you know,

1052
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:15,560
Speaker 2: India shooting down satellite so demonstrating anti satellite capability. Japan

1053
01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:20,160
Speaker 2: has an increasingly sophisticated space program. Turkey is starting to

1054
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:23,120
Speaker 2: get going. You got the European Space Agency, which is

1055
01:04:23,200 --> 01:04:24,720
Speaker 2: sort of the European If you want to look for

1056
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:27,280
Speaker 2: a Star Trek like player in space, it's the European

1057
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:32,880
Speaker 2: Space Agency. They're trying to do good things and have

1058
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 2: a holistic approach, but it's it's new players coming in

1059
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:40,680
Speaker 2: and demonstrating serious capabilities that have up the temperature.

1060
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:42,200
Speaker 1: Who can get up there on their own?

1061
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:45,120
Speaker 2: Though? Is it just the three countries or in terms

1062
01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:49,280
Speaker 2: of humans? Yeah, So Russia still has its Soye's system

1063
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:53,840
Speaker 2: which is now fifty five sixty years old, China has

1064
01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:56,320
Speaker 2: a capability that's two decades old, and the United States

1065
01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:58,840
Speaker 2: can get up there because of SpaceX and Dragon. But

1066
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:00,479
Speaker 2: that's you know, Musk.

1067
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:03,480
Speaker 1: Everybody else has to sort of lease, right, has to

1068
01:05:03,560 --> 01:05:08,680
Speaker 1: sort of buy a seat or contract with Maybe it's SpaceX,

1069
01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:11,160
Speaker 1: maybe it's with the with NATE, right like the European

1070
01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:14,000
Speaker 1: Space Agency has to go up with somebody else.

1071
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:16,480
Speaker 2: Right, Absolutely, And they're at least a decade away from

1072
01:05:16,520 --> 01:05:17,680
Speaker 2: having a human capability.

1073
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:21,000
Speaker 1: Who I was just gonna say, are there other countries

1074
01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:23,200
Speaker 1: trying to develop their own abilities to get up there?

1075
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:25,120
Speaker 1: I assume India is. India is.

1076
01:05:25,160 --> 01:05:28,080
Speaker 2: They've had a program called gargan Yon, and they've been

1077
01:05:28,160 --> 01:05:30,240
Speaker 2: making some progress. But initially I think they wanted to

1078
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:32,960
Speaker 2: get up there by twenty twenty two, and it became

1079
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:34,760
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. Now I think it's probably closer to

1080
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:37,200
Speaker 2: twenty twenty eight. So they've had some teething pains that

1081
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:38,600
Speaker 2: they've developed this capability.

1082
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:51,920
Speaker 1: And what is the uae up to.

1083
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:56,840
Speaker 2: The UAE is seeking UA and other countries in the

1084
01:05:56,840 --> 01:05:59,040
Speaker 2: Middle East, but certainly the uae IS is most prominent

1085
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:02,320
Speaker 2: among them. They're spending a lot of money to develop capabilities,

1086
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:05,320
Speaker 2: and right now they're in the phase where they're partnering

1087
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:10,680
Speaker 2: with NASA, they're partnering with US companies and research institution.

1088
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:12,760
Speaker 1: Should almost like having a private equity firm helping you

1089
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:15,840
Speaker 1: out financially. I mean, to be totally cynical, I think so.

1090
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:17,800
Speaker 2: But I think they do have a long term vision

1091
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:21,720
Speaker 2: of building some kind of spaceport capability in the UA itself,

1092
01:06:22,760 --> 01:06:25,640
Speaker 2: but it's really hard to spin that up from the ground,

1093
01:06:25,720 --> 01:06:27,560
Speaker 2: So they're in the partnership phase at this point.

1094
01:06:31,080 --> 01:06:35,439
Speaker 1: Can America get up into space without private contractors right now? Nope?

1095
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:39,360
Speaker 2: And and you know they NASA warded two contracts a

1096
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:42,080
Speaker 2: decade ago to Boeing and SpaceX, and Boeing still hasn't

1097
01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:46,480
Speaker 2: demonstrated a reliable capability, So like it's it's all space

1098
01:06:46,680 --> 01:06:48,000
Speaker 2: X for at least the next few years for the

1099
01:06:48,080 --> 01:06:50,440
Speaker 2: United States and probably beyond that.

1100
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:52,919
Speaker 1: I mean, this is what you know. Not to delve

1101
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:54,960
Speaker 1: too much into politics. I'm not asking you to be

1102
01:06:54,960 --> 01:06:58,000
Speaker 1: a political pundit. But Elon Musk has a lot of

1103
01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:01,720
Speaker 1: I mean, he he ended visually holds a lot of

1104
01:07:01,840 --> 01:07:06,640
Speaker 1: keys to the access to low orbit satellite systems and

1105
01:07:06,920 --> 01:07:08,680
Speaker 1: getting up there, doesn't He he's.

1106
01:07:08,560 --> 01:07:11,440
Speaker 2: The most important person in spaceflight globally, and it's not

1107
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:14,600
Speaker 2: even close. And it's not just like our getting our

1108
01:07:14,600 --> 01:07:17,120
Speaker 2: astnasts to and from the space station, like he has

1109
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:19,760
Speaker 2: the contract to safely bring the space station back down

1110
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:23,280
Speaker 2: to Earth. He as you say, you know, controls the

1111
01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:28,280
Speaker 2: Starlink network, which is increasingly valuable to our allies and

1112
01:07:28,360 --> 01:07:31,240
Speaker 2: to our national defense, in addition to all of its

1113
01:07:31,240 --> 01:07:37,000
Speaker 2: commercial applications. And then of course SpaceX launches now the

1114
01:07:37,080 --> 01:07:39,640
Speaker 2: most military satellites for the Department of Defense.

1115
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:44,680
Speaker 1: Has he shifted policy goals yet or not, because it

1116
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:46,840
Speaker 1: did seem as if that that was the assumption of

1117
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:49,600
Speaker 1: why he wanted to be so involved with the Trump administration.

1118
01:07:50,040 --> 01:07:51,880
Speaker 2: See, I don't think he would have got involved with

1119
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:56,000
Speaker 2: the Trump administration because of space politics. He had other

1120
01:07:56,080 --> 01:08:03,160
Speaker 2: priorities such as they were, and he but he's always

1121
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:05,480
Speaker 2: been interested in Mars and always been pushing every administration

1122
01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:07,360
Speaker 2: to focus on Mars. So I don't think that was different.

1123
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:09,600
Speaker 2: He found a willing audience for a few months in

1124
01:08:09,720 --> 01:08:11,880
Speaker 2: Donald Trump, but they've sort of backed off that. And

1125
01:08:11,960 --> 01:08:14,600
Speaker 2: it's really the politics actually of the Artemist program are

1126
01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:19,439
Speaker 2: interesting because SpaceX has the contract to land actually land

1127
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:21,559
Speaker 2: humans on the Moon, take them from lunar orbit down

1128
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:24,640
Speaker 2: to the surface and back up and starship. But at

1129
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:28,800
Speaker 2: the same time, like that lunar lander program is not

1130
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:31,599
Speaker 2: a priority at all from Musk, so like they are

1131
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:33,800
Speaker 2: not putting a tremendous amount of resources into it.

1132
01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:37,479
Speaker 1: Then they issue to contracted in Blue Origin get one too.

1133
01:08:38,320 --> 01:08:41,000
Speaker 2: They did, and this is where it gets even more interesting.

1134
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:43,960
Speaker 2: Blue Origin, of course owned by by Jeff Bezos, now

1135
01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:48,360
Speaker 2: their lander. They're behind SpaceX in terms of development, so

1136
01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:51,120
Speaker 2: like their initial their capability right now will not be

1137
01:08:51,200 --> 01:08:55,840
Speaker 2: ready in the twenty twenties. But I just reported last

1138
01:08:55,880 --> 01:08:59,040
Speaker 2: week that there is a plan inside Blue Origin to

1139
01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:01,519
Speaker 2: use their their existing lunar lander, which is going to

1140
01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:04,519
Speaker 2: watch for the first time early next year, and to

1141
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:07,679
Speaker 2: try to put humans on that, which could potentially allow

1142
01:09:07,800 --> 01:09:10,880
Speaker 2: NASA to get to the Moon this decade on a

1143
01:09:10,920 --> 01:09:13,560
Speaker 2: Blue Origin vehicle. And so so far, so we have

1144
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:15,760
Speaker 2: to see if the NASA administration takes that up.

1145
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:18,639
Speaker 1: Seriously, let me just sort of put a I want

1146
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:21,360
Speaker 1: to go back to the Boeing situation, because this is

1147
01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:23,880
Speaker 1: I mean it is I mean, this feels like a

1148
01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:27,439
Speaker 1: company that isn't getting anything right, whether it's deliveries of

1149
01:09:28,360 --> 01:09:32,960
Speaker 1: airplanes or these space contracts. Given the shakeup that happened there,

1150
01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:35,880
Speaker 1: I mean, do we expect Boeing to ever deliver on.

1151
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:40,960
Speaker 2: This, not in a meaningful way. I think you might

1152
01:09:41,040 --> 01:09:43,960
Speaker 2: get a few human missions on Boeing Starliner spacecraft of

1153
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:47,559
Speaker 2: the National Space Station, But after twenty thirty, the future,

1154
01:09:47,560 --> 01:09:49,400
Speaker 2: at least in the Western world, is going to be

1155
01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:53,400
Speaker 2: private space stations in lower thorbit. And I just don't

1156
01:09:53,439 --> 01:09:56,759
Speaker 2: expect Boeing to be able to compete on price with Dragon,

1157
01:09:58,200 --> 01:09:59,719
Speaker 2: you know, because NASA is not going to be paying

1158
01:09:59,800 --> 01:10:01,960
Speaker 2: for for a lot of those missions. It's going to

1159
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:04,360
Speaker 2: be you know, if you know Chuck Todd wants to

1160
01:10:04,400 --> 01:10:06,800
Speaker 2: take a two week visit to a private space station,

1161
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:08,519
Speaker 2: he's footing the bill, And so are you going to

1162
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:11,400
Speaker 2: pay an extra fifty million to fly in a Boweing

1163
01:10:11,479 --> 01:10:13,720
Speaker 2: vehicle which is not as safe as Dragon because it's

1164
01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:14,679
Speaker 2: not flying as often?

1165
01:10:15,240 --> 01:10:18,880
Speaker 1: Right, I know, I feel like I'm hodgepodging here, But

1166
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:21,559
Speaker 1: you've brought up space sort of tourism a couple times.

1167
01:10:22,960 --> 01:10:24,600
Speaker 2: Are is the first sort of.

1168
01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:27,680
Speaker 1: Hotel going to be floating or going to be on

1169
01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:28,040
Speaker 1: the Moon.

1170
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:34,200
Speaker 2: You know, that's a great question because we've finally been

1171
01:10:34,240 --> 01:10:37,040
Speaker 2: the last five years with with Virgin Galactic and Blue

1172
01:10:37,080 --> 01:10:40,760
Speaker 2: Origin seen real actual space tourism, so you as a

1173
01:10:40,840 --> 01:10:42,719
Speaker 2: private statist, you can go buy a ticket and actually

1174
01:10:42,760 --> 01:10:45,599
Speaker 2: have some expectation of going to space pretty quickly.

1175
01:10:45,640 --> 01:10:47,640
Speaker 1: It's a lot of bitcoin, but yeah, it's a lot

1176
01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:48,560
Speaker 1: of bitcoin.

1177
01:10:48,280 --> 01:10:50,519
Speaker 2: But it's you can actually do it now like you

1178
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:55,760
Speaker 2: couldn't really do it before. And but on the on

1179
01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:57,679
Speaker 2: the other hand, like there has so he's been pretty

1180
01:10:57,720 --> 01:10:59,600
Speaker 2: high demand for this star war world space tourism or

1181
01:10:59,640 --> 01:11:01,320
Speaker 2: basically go up and come down and like you know

1182
01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:02,840
Speaker 2: a few minutes.

1183
01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:05,440
Speaker 1: Kind of what Bezos has been doing with the celebrities.

1184
01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:07,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and those are I mean, what a what

1185
01:11:07,800 --> 01:11:09,120
Speaker 2: a fantastic ride that would be.

1186
01:11:10,360 --> 01:11:13,360
Speaker 1: He kind of find partially finances those launch finances, all

1187
01:11:13,400 --> 01:11:15,320
Speaker 1: of it. Yeah, I mean yeah, with other people buying

1188
01:11:15,600 --> 01:11:19,200
Speaker 1: a seat, right, yeah, okay, So but what we.

1189
01:11:19,240 --> 01:11:23,640
Speaker 2: Have not seen is great demand for orbital missions. So

1190
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:26,360
Speaker 2: like you can also book a dragon now, it's not

1191
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:29,479
Speaker 2: going to be a million dollar ticket. It's going to

1192
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:31,960
Speaker 2: be at least probably sixty million dollars to go to

1193
01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:35,400
Speaker 2: orbit for a few days, and you have to train

1194
01:11:35,479 --> 01:11:38,280
Speaker 2: a lot more and it's more dangerous and more rigorous.

1195
01:11:38,439 --> 01:11:40,760
Speaker 2: There hasn't been a lot of demand for that, and

1196
01:11:41,280 --> 01:11:43,400
Speaker 2: I think the story is really to be told on

1197
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:46,439
Speaker 2: whether these private space stations, when there's several companies in

1198
01:11:46,439 --> 01:11:51,519
Speaker 2: the United States working toward that, building successors to International

1199
01:11:51,560 --> 01:11:54,680
Speaker 2: Space Station, I don't I have not seen enough for

1200
01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:57,080
Speaker 2: an economic site to show there's a huge demand for

1201
01:11:57,160 --> 01:11:59,960
Speaker 2: that outside of like government astnauts, so like UA would

1202
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:02,160
Speaker 2: pay for some of its people to go there, or

1203
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:07,080
Speaker 2: Turkey or Brazil, But whether private citizens are paying money

1204
01:12:07,160 --> 01:12:08,960
Speaker 2: to go to these as hotels, I'm not so sure.

1205
01:12:09,880 --> 01:12:13,360
Speaker 2: I do think there is potential for a lunar space tourism, yeah,

1206
01:12:13,479 --> 01:12:15,160
Speaker 2: just I think that's more appealing, Like you can go

1207
01:12:15,320 --> 01:12:17,879
Speaker 2: you can be in a gravity well, you can go outside,

1208
01:12:18,439 --> 01:12:21,240
Speaker 2: and I think there's more of a market there. But

1209
01:12:21,320 --> 01:12:24,360
Speaker 2: that's also you know, much more difficult to bring into fruition.

1210
01:12:24,920 --> 01:12:31,080
Speaker 1: Is this twenty forty twenty eighty, So for I think, you.

1211
01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:34,320
Speaker 2: Know, we'll have pretty good lunar activity in twenty thirties

1212
01:12:34,360 --> 01:12:37,920
Speaker 2: by governments, So I could see private I could see

1213
01:12:37,960 --> 01:12:40,719
Speaker 2: some kind of private station or accommodations at the hotel

1214
01:12:40,800 --> 01:12:41,479
Speaker 2: by twenty forty.

1215
01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:44,920
Speaker 1: It's not out of the realm, so within within you know,

1216
01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:50,240
Speaker 1: within our lifetimes, we're likely to It's that it's within

1217
01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:53,040
Speaker 1: the realm of possibility. Yeah, absolutely, it's not as zero.

1218
01:12:53,120 --> 01:12:53,960
Speaker 1: Now what about Mars?

1219
01:12:55,640 --> 01:12:56,680
Speaker 2: Oh, Mars, So.

1220
01:12:58,720 --> 01:12:58,960
Speaker 1: Mars.

1221
01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:01,600
Speaker 2: I'm not sure. What I love for your listeners to

1222
01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:04,719
Speaker 2: appreciate is it's really, really, really hard to go to Mars,

1223
01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:06,840
Speaker 2: A lot lot harder than the Moon.

1224
01:13:07,720 --> 01:13:10,120
Speaker 1: So but I thought Arnold Schwarzenegger was already there.

1225
01:13:10,479 --> 01:13:14,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so, and as hard as it is to

1226
01:13:14,040 --> 01:13:16,479
Speaker 2: get to Mars safely, it's even harder to come back.

1227
01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:20,600
Speaker 2: So like SpaceX has the Starship vehicle, but but refueling

1228
01:13:20,640 --> 01:13:24,360
Speaker 2: that on Mars is extremely difficult. So I think the

1229
01:13:24,479 --> 01:13:26,000
Speaker 2: first missions we see to Mars are going to be

1230
01:13:26,040 --> 01:13:31,560
Speaker 2: one way mission. And you know, it's very difficult for

1231
01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:34,160
Speaker 2: me to see a human on Mars before twenty forty,

1232
01:13:35,880 --> 01:13:39,040
Speaker 2: but after twenty forty it's certainly possible. I mean, we are,

1233
01:13:39,720 --> 01:13:41,200
Speaker 2: for the first time in history, we're actually building a

1234
01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:44,160
Speaker 2: transportation system that can get people there. It's all been

1235
01:13:44,200 --> 01:13:45,760
Speaker 2: theoretical up until this point.

1236
01:13:48,360 --> 01:13:50,560
Speaker 1: What do we I mean, Look, I know why you

1237
01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:52,519
Speaker 1: do these things. You don't know what you're going to find,

1238
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:55,160
Speaker 1: but you know you're better off exploring than not, right,

1239
01:13:55,240 --> 01:13:57,920
Speaker 1: It's sort of the same explorer mentality that the Europeans

1240
01:13:57,960 --> 01:14:02,680
Speaker 1: had in the fourteen hundreds and the Fife. But what

1241
01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:06,160
Speaker 1: have we learned so far from our these robotic missions?

1242
01:14:06,960 --> 01:14:11,360
Speaker 1: And is there is there is there even more reason

1243
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:13,600
Speaker 1: to get there sooner? Like, is there is? Is this

1244
01:14:13,720 --> 01:14:18,320
Speaker 1: going to be a a There's going to be richer minerals,

1245
01:14:18,400 --> 01:14:20,120
Speaker 1: richer resources there than we realize.

1246
01:14:20,640 --> 01:14:23,680
Speaker 2: You're talking about Mars. Yes, no, there are, there are,

1247
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:26,560
Speaker 2: there are At this point, there are no known resources

1248
01:14:26,680 --> 01:14:28,840
Speaker 2: on Mars that you could send back to Earth that

1249
01:14:28,840 --> 01:14:30,880
Speaker 2: would have any kind of value, certainly have the value

1250
01:14:30,920 --> 01:14:34,200
Speaker 2: that would justify the extraordinary cost and energy of shipping

1251
01:14:34,240 --> 01:14:34,760
Speaker 2: them back here.

1252
01:14:36,120 --> 01:14:39,439
Speaker 1: So it feels like we may be spending a lot

1253
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:42,479
Speaker 1: of money to build an outpost in a desert like

1254
01:14:42,720 --> 01:14:45,320
Speaker 1: environment that really is not that appealing to live in

1255
01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:48,280
Speaker 1: unless there's no place else to live in the universe.

1256
01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:52,599
Speaker 2: So any location on Earth is far superior to Mars

1257
01:14:52,680 --> 01:14:55,280
Speaker 2: on its best day. Yeah, there's no question about that.

1258
01:14:56,720 --> 01:14:59,640
Speaker 2: And in reality, the United States government has not been

1259
01:14:59,680 --> 01:15:01,760
Speaker 2: spending a lot of money on Mars. In terms of

1260
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:03,639
Speaker 2: humans to Mars, we really haven't.

1261
01:15:04,200 --> 01:15:06,240
Speaker 1: You're making the case never to send a human to Mars.

1262
01:15:06,320 --> 01:15:08,760
Speaker 2: So there is Chuck there is only one reason really

1263
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:12,320
Speaker 2: for humans to go to Mars, and it's this, like it,

1264
01:15:12,600 --> 01:15:16,519
Speaker 2: do you want humanity to be a space varing species?

1265
01:15:16,840 --> 01:15:19,560
Speaker 2: Like do you want us to live elsewhere in the

1266
01:15:19,600 --> 01:15:24,920
Speaker 2: Solar System? And Mars is not great, but it is

1267
01:15:25,000 --> 01:15:27,120
Speaker 2: better than almost anywhere else in the Solar System other

1268
01:15:27,200 --> 01:15:29,080
Speaker 2: than planet Earth. And so if we're going to take

1269
01:15:29,120 --> 01:15:32,639
Speaker 2: our first step towards living on other planets, it's probably

1270
01:15:32,680 --> 01:15:36,200
Speaker 2: got to be on Mars. And then you know, then eventually,

1271
01:15:36,280 --> 01:15:38,560
Speaker 2: when we develop technology to go to other stars and

1272
01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:41,200
Speaker 2: find more habitable worlds, we'll have all of these lessons learned.

1273
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:45,439
Speaker 2: But if you want humanity to live beyond Earth, and

1274
01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:48,320
Speaker 2: some people think that's crazy, and I understand that, but

1275
01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:51,360
Speaker 2: I happen to believe in the Starchspeck vision you outlined

1276
01:15:51,400 --> 01:15:54,720
Speaker 2: earlier that I mean, I think humans should go off

1277
01:15:54,760 --> 01:15:56,840
Speaker 2: and live elsewhere in the universe. And that's really the

1278
01:15:56,880 --> 01:15:57,360
Speaker 2: first step.

1279
01:15:58,120 --> 01:15:59,840
Speaker 1: No, I'm all for we got to find you know,

1280
01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:02,240
Speaker 1: I think we you know, that's what it's all about,

1281
01:16:02,439 --> 01:16:05,599
Speaker 1: right is I think frankly, it's part of the whole

1282
01:16:05,640 --> 01:16:08,080
Speaker 1: search for meaning. Right, Why are we here? Is there

1283
01:16:08,120 --> 01:16:09,000
Speaker 1: something else?

1284
01:16:09,080 --> 01:16:09,160
Speaker 2: Right?

1285
01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:11,599
Speaker 1: There's a lot of reasons why you want to keep exploring,

1286
01:16:12,400 --> 01:16:14,719
Speaker 1: But it seems to me that that we'd be better

1287
01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:17,680
Speaker 1: off doing all of this for robotics. I mean, we've

1288
01:16:17,720 --> 01:16:21,600
Speaker 1: made such advancements on this that that we shouldn't be

1289
01:16:21,920 --> 01:16:24,640
Speaker 1: risking human It doesn't seem as if we need to

1290
01:16:24,720 --> 01:16:25,920
Speaker 1: risk human lives yet.

1291
01:16:26,840 --> 01:16:30,880
Speaker 2: If your goal is to do scientific exploration of the

1292
01:16:30,920 --> 01:16:36,280
Speaker 2: Solar System, robots are superior in almost every case, certainly

1293
01:16:36,439 --> 01:16:40,240
Speaker 2: for the cost of the mission. So yes, I would

1294
01:16:40,240 --> 01:16:43,040
Speaker 2: agree that if we just want to make discoveries about

1295
01:16:43,120 --> 01:16:45,400
Speaker 2: this fascinating solar system we live in, and it is

1296
01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:47,920
Speaker 2: truly fascinating, sent robots.

1297
01:16:49,760 --> 01:16:52,120
Speaker 1: If you could pick more places to go to see

1298
01:16:52,160 --> 01:16:55,479
Speaker 1: if there are better habitable places in our Solar system?

1299
01:16:56,120 --> 01:16:59,880
Speaker 1: Is it moons of Jupiter and Saturn that are worth searching?

1300
01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:04,960
Speaker 1: Where where? Where is it that that that the that

1301
01:17:05,200 --> 01:17:08,320
Speaker 1: those that have that have some hypotheses about the rest

1302
01:17:08,360 --> 01:17:11,400
Speaker 1: of the Solar System and what and what we've learned

1303
01:17:11,439 --> 01:17:15,559
Speaker 1: so far from from all the all the the long

1304
01:17:15,640 --> 01:17:17,519
Speaker 1: term satellites we've been sending up there, and the and

1305
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:20,760
Speaker 1: the incredible the web, the web telescope and all of that.

1306
01:17:21,479 --> 01:17:24,519
Speaker 1: Where else would it be Europa? Is that a that's

1307
01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:25,840
Speaker 1: the name of one of the moons.

1308
01:17:25,880 --> 01:17:29,599
Speaker 2: Europa's hell Man. Europa is bathed constantly in this deadly

1309
01:17:29,760 --> 01:17:32,720
Speaker 2: radiation from the planet Jupiter. Like Europa is the last

1310
01:17:32,760 --> 01:17:33,519
Speaker 2: place you would want to go.

1311
01:17:33,720 --> 01:17:36,120
Speaker 1: Why is there always this fantasy about Europa?

1312
01:17:36,560 --> 01:17:39,080
Speaker 2: Because there's this there's this huge ocean. There's more water

1313
01:17:39,240 --> 01:17:42,280
Speaker 2: on Europa than there is on the planet Earth. Beneath

1314
01:17:42,320 --> 01:17:45,560
Speaker 2: the ice shell, there's internal heating, and so if you

1315
01:17:45,960 --> 01:17:48,160
Speaker 2: look at the black smokers on Earth where where life

1316
01:17:48,240 --> 01:17:52,719
Speaker 2: is thought to have originated there, it's it's it's entirely

1317
01:17:52,800 --> 01:17:55,160
Speaker 2: conceivable there's life in that ocean on Europa.

1318
01:17:55,760 --> 01:17:58,080
Speaker 1: And that's why there's this fascination of getting there. It's like,

1319
01:17:58,160 --> 01:18:00,880
Speaker 1: let's just let's get some eyes on it, let's see, and.

1320
01:18:01,120 --> 01:18:04,400
Speaker 2: We absolutely should because it's a fascinating, fascinating place. Now,

1321
01:18:04,400 --> 01:18:05,880
Speaker 2: if you were asking me, and I think you were,

1322
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:07,880
Speaker 2: to sort of rank places in the source and.

1323
01:18:07,960 --> 01:18:09,880
Speaker 1: To live, where do you go next? And you know,

1324
01:18:09,960 --> 01:18:13,120
Speaker 1: after Mars obviously, because it's closest, well the moon is

1325
01:18:13,320 --> 01:18:16,280
Speaker 1: the moon is closest, sure, right, and so that's that's

1326
01:18:16,320 --> 01:18:18,040
Speaker 1: a good place to go as well, because you can

1327
01:18:18,080 --> 01:18:18,639
Speaker 1: get back.

1328
01:18:18,479 --> 01:18:21,280
Speaker 2: Within three days. That there's some kind of emergency and

1329
01:18:21,400 --> 01:18:23,840
Speaker 2: you could probably there are probably caves on the Moon,

1330
01:18:23,960 --> 01:18:26,040
Speaker 2: or you could dig tunnels on the Moon and live there,

1331
01:18:26,920 --> 01:18:31,320
Speaker 2: and there's plenty of solar energy. Mars is probably the

1332
01:18:31,400 --> 01:18:34,960
Speaker 2: best planetary body surface. It's got a very thin atmosphere,

1333
01:18:35,000 --> 01:18:38,599
Speaker 2: but it does have resources water, carbon dioxide, other sort

1334
01:18:38,640 --> 01:18:43,720
Speaker 2: of things that you kind of needs as humans. Other

1335
01:18:43,840 --> 01:18:48,519
Speaker 2: potentially interesting places are like the clouds of Venus, because

1336
01:18:48,520 --> 01:18:52,120
Speaker 2: there's a certain elevation at Venus where the atmosphere is

1337
01:18:52,240 --> 01:18:55,240
Speaker 2: not breathable, but it is one standard atmosphere, so you

1338
01:18:55,280 --> 01:18:56,040
Speaker 2: could walk around.

1339
01:18:56,720 --> 01:18:58,719
Speaker 1: What does that mean? I've heard this the clouds of Venus?

1340
01:18:58,760 --> 01:19:01,600
Speaker 1: I mean is this a is is it putting a

1341
01:19:01,680 --> 01:19:05,080
Speaker 1: space station in Venus' orbits or is it actual? Like

1342
01:19:05,400 --> 01:19:07,320
Speaker 1: explain that big zeppelins.

1343
01:19:07,360 --> 01:19:10,280
Speaker 2: Maybe yeah, you know you could, you could as a

1344
01:19:10,320 --> 01:19:12,920
Speaker 2: science fiction person, you could kind of go wild, but

1345
01:19:13,080 --> 01:19:15,280
Speaker 2: you know, there isn't There is an elevation in Venus'

1346
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:18,320
Speaker 2: atmosphere where it's the basically the pressure air pressure is

1347
01:19:18,320 --> 01:19:20,719
Speaker 2: similar to this here on Earth. Like on the surface

1348
01:19:21,439 --> 01:19:24,880
Speaker 2: is that absolutely hell right, super hot and you would

1349
01:19:24,880 --> 01:19:28,519
Speaker 2: be crushed instantly, But but at a certain altitude of

1350
01:19:28,600 --> 01:19:33,719
Speaker 2: Venus you could get earth like pressure and temperatures wouldn't

1351
01:19:33,720 --> 01:19:37,559
Speaker 2: be crazy either, So that's interesting. But like there's nothing hard,

1352
01:19:37,640 --> 01:19:41,040
Speaker 2: there's no firm surface right to build upon. You'd have

1353
01:19:41,160 --> 01:19:44,160
Speaker 2: to float. And then you could look at a moon,

1354
01:19:44,240 --> 01:19:47,639
Speaker 2: maybe like Ganymede around Jupiter, which might have some potential.

1355
01:19:47,720 --> 01:19:50,519
Speaker 2: But but you know, when Jeff Bezos says Earth is

1356
01:19:50,600 --> 01:19:54,320
Speaker 2: the best planet, he's right. I mean, Earth is far

1357
01:19:54,520 --> 01:19:57,519
Speaker 2: far more suited to humans in any other place in

1358
01:19:57,640 --> 01:20:00,320
Speaker 2: our known solar system. But you know, fortunately ten or

1359
01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:02,960
Speaker 2: fifteen years we started to find exoplanets around other stars,

1360
01:20:03,000 --> 01:20:06,479
Speaker 2: and we see that there's billions and billions of planets

1361
01:20:06,520 --> 01:20:08,640
Speaker 2: in our galaxy, and some of them are going to

1362
01:20:08,680 --> 01:20:10,720
Speaker 2: be very earth like, and some of them, I don't

1363
01:20:10,720 --> 01:20:12,599
Speaker 2: know if it's like a tiny, tiny fraction, but there

1364
01:20:12,640 --> 01:20:15,960
Speaker 2: will be some that could easily support you in life.

1365
01:20:16,400 --> 01:20:21,559
Speaker 1: Right. Look, you know, and one of these civilizations may

1366
01:20:21,560 --> 01:20:24,040
Speaker 1: be developing faster than us or vice versa, so we

1367
01:20:25,320 --> 01:20:28,000
Speaker 1: could find out on that. But let's go back to

1368
01:20:28,080 --> 01:20:31,400
Speaker 1: developing the moon. And that is because I remember Bezoos

1369
01:20:31,439 --> 01:20:34,000
Speaker 1: saying something once that I thought was made a lot

1370
01:20:34,040 --> 01:20:37,920
Speaker 1: of sense, that he thought our heaviest industrial manufacturing should

1371
01:20:37,920 --> 01:20:41,680
Speaker 1: be outsourced to the Moon that it was actually you know,

1372
01:20:42,040 --> 01:20:44,320
Speaker 1: could be the best if if you care about climate

1373
01:20:44,439 --> 01:20:48,400
Speaker 1: change in this on this planet and trying to mitigate

1374
01:20:50,400 --> 01:20:53,160
Speaker 1: the warming of the planet some that that would be

1375
01:20:53,800 --> 01:20:58,719
Speaker 1: a big idea that could have a big impact. Pipe tream.

1376
01:21:00,040 --> 01:21:04,200
Speaker 2: Not a pipe dream, but it's difficult, but we could

1377
01:21:04,280 --> 01:21:07,440
Speaker 2: get a lot of resources from space that we basically

1378
01:21:08,520 --> 01:21:11,040
Speaker 2: we could get energy from space, right, whether that's a

1379
01:21:11,240 --> 01:21:14,120
Speaker 2: huge form of solar panels on the Moon or space

1380
01:21:14,200 --> 01:21:16,800
Speaker 2: based solar power, which has its challenges, but you could

1381
01:21:17,360 --> 01:21:19,439
Speaker 2: certainly being lots of energy back to Earth.

1382
01:21:20,520 --> 01:21:20,680
Speaker 1: You know.

1383
01:21:20,720 --> 01:21:23,599
Speaker 2: The big thing now is data centers, right, which are

1384
01:21:23,800 --> 01:21:27,960
Speaker 2: consuming an enormous amount of power and water are environmentally

1385
01:21:28,760 --> 01:21:32,080
Speaker 2: very you know, very not good for the planet. You

1386
01:21:32,160 --> 01:21:35,240
Speaker 2: could put data centers in space where you get twenty

1387
01:21:35,280 --> 01:21:37,840
Speaker 2: four on solar power you don't need to use water

1388
01:21:37,960 --> 01:21:41,320
Speaker 2: resources and so that there are some challenges for cooling

1389
01:21:41,439 --> 01:21:43,439
Speaker 2: those in space, but I think they could be overcome

1390
01:21:43,520 --> 01:21:47,760
Speaker 2: with radiators. You know, you think about all of the

1391
01:21:47,800 --> 01:21:51,519
Speaker 2: strip mining we do the planet for valuable metals, not

1392
01:21:51,640 --> 01:21:53,880
Speaker 2: so much on the Moon, but an asteroid. There are

1393
01:21:54,000 --> 01:21:56,760
Speaker 2: metal rich asteroids, some of which are in near Earth

1394
01:21:56,880 --> 01:22:00,320
Speaker 2: orbits that that theoretically we could get mine and bring

1395
01:22:00,400 --> 01:22:02,479
Speaker 2: all the platinum back and other metals that we could

1396
01:22:02,520 --> 01:22:07,600
Speaker 2: ever want for our needs here and manufacturing like and

1397
01:22:08,040 --> 01:22:11,480
Speaker 2: it's just for a lot of applications. Manufacturing and microgravity

1398
01:22:11,720 --> 01:22:14,439
Speaker 2: is a lot different of course than manufacturing on Earth,

1399
01:22:14,479 --> 01:22:16,560
Speaker 2: but it's in some ways it's much better. Or you

1400
01:22:16,600 --> 01:22:19,439
Speaker 2: could put manufacturing on the moon. So, you know, best

1401
01:22:19,520 --> 01:22:22,600
Speaker 2: bezos Is vision is that you know, we create a

1402
01:22:22,760 --> 01:22:25,519
Speaker 2: garden here on Earth and offshore or all of our

1403
01:22:25,760 --> 01:22:29,439
Speaker 2: you know, and and in theory that's all possible, but

1404
01:22:29,520 --> 01:22:32,920
Speaker 2: it's it's it's extremely challenging to do it. But we're

1405
01:22:32,960 --> 01:22:35,360
Speaker 2: taking we're taking baby steps toward I mean the first

1406
01:22:35,400 --> 01:22:35,880
Speaker 2: step this.

1407
01:22:35,920 --> 01:22:39,679
Speaker 1: Is like one hundred year plan like this at best right, Yeah.

1408
01:22:39,600 --> 01:22:41,760
Speaker 2: But the first step was like lowering the cost of

1409
01:22:41,840 --> 01:22:44,080
Speaker 2: access to space. And we've seen that like SpaceX with

1410
01:22:44,200 --> 01:22:48,000
Speaker 2: its Falcon nine rocket is a miracle. It launches more

1411
01:22:48,120 --> 01:22:51,720
Speaker 2: in a year by a lot. Then you know, a

1412
01:22:51,800 --> 01:22:54,479
Speaker 2: few years ago, every country in the world, every company

1413
01:22:54,520 --> 01:22:55,800
Speaker 2: the world, we edit it all up and it was

1414
01:22:55,840 --> 01:22:58,280
Speaker 2: like half of what the Falcon nine does now every

1415
01:22:58,360 --> 01:23:01,160
Speaker 2: year on its And so like lowering the cost of

1416
01:23:01,200 --> 01:23:05,599
Speaker 2: access to space. Your reasonability is an essential first step,

1417
01:23:05,680 --> 01:23:06,479
Speaker 2: and we're taking.

1418
01:23:06,320 --> 01:23:19,000
Speaker 1: It so obviously I let my brain to go to

1419
01:23:19,040 --> 01:23:22,800
Speaker 1: politics too often. But you know, one of the difficulties

1420
01:23:23,240 --> 01:23:26,320
Speaker 1: I think, I think one of the reasons I feel

1421
01:23:26,400 --> 01:23:29,960
Speaker 1: like we sort of stopped space exploration for about twenty

1422
01:23:30,040 --> 01:23:33,000
Speaker 1: years because of politics, meaning we didn't stop it, but

1423
01:23:33,160 --> 01:23:35,840
Speaker 1: we weren't as aggressive, like the end of the Cold

1424
01:23:35,880 --> 01:23:38,639
Speaker 1: War came and we didn't feel the pressure and urgency

1425
01:23:38,720 --> 01:23:42,799
Speaker 1: to flex. So for whatever reason, you know, that seemed

1426
01:23:42,800 --> 01:23:45,360
Speaker 1: to be the main reason. And then of course politically,

1427
01:23:45,479 --> 01:23:47,760
Speaker 1: why are you spending money on there and not on healthcare? Right?

1428
01:23:47,800 --> 01:23:51,120
Speaker 1: And not on childcare? Is there a plausible way to

1429
01:23:51,360 --> 01:23:56,920
Speaker 1: sell spending on space by saying, look, we're going to

1430
01:23:56,960 --> 01:24:00,160
Speaker 1: be able to bring the cost of power down on

1431
01:24:00,439 --> 01:24:03,360
Speaker 1: this planet and it's going to be a game changer.

1432
01:24:03,400 --> 01:24:06,120
Speaker 1: I ask it. It is. It is among the plot

1433
01:24:06,240 --> 01:24:09,240
Speaker 1: points of for all mankind that you know, the discovery

1434
01:24:09,280 --> 01:24:14,639
Speaker 1: of this incredibve helium three transforms you know, energy consumption

1435
01:24:15,240 --> 01:24:18,800
Speaker 1: on Earth and just totally transforms the economies of both

1436
01:24:18,840 --> 01:24:21,960
Speaker 1: the Soviets and the United States in this science obviously,

1437
01:24:22,040 --> 01:24:26,479
Speaker 1: this alternative history mindset. But is is that what the

1438
01:24:26,560 --> 01:24:29,920
Speaker 1: assumption is about the Moon that this could be you know,

1439
01:24:30,040 --> 01:24:33,760
Speaker 1: the best asset besides offshoring stuff and space tourism, is

1440
01:24:33,800 --> 01:24:38,920
Speaker 1: it could provide a cheaper, cleaner power source to power

1441
01:24:39,000 --> 01:24:39,679
Speaker 1: Earth essentially.

1442
01:24:40,200 --> 01:24:43,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, like you're absolutely right. After the Apollo program,

1443
01:24:44,600 --> 01:24:49,560
Speaker 2: Nixon and then Carter and Ford basically said NASA was

1444
01:24:49,560 --> 01:24:51,160
Speaker 2: spending way too much money as five percent of the

1445
01:24:51,200 --> 01:24:52,280
Speaker 2: fiddle budget when you do.

1446
01:24:52,320 --> 01:24:55,000
Speaker 1: A massive inflation, right, it was a terrible economy at

1447
01:24:55,040 --> 01:24:55,720
Speaker 1: the time, right.

1448
01:24:56,080 --> 01:24:57,800
Speaker 2: And so like for all these reasons, they said, here's this,

1449
01:24:58,040 --> 01:25:00,240
Speaker 2: here's the budget, you have fit a nice space going

1450
01:25:00,280 --> 01:25:01,760
Speaker 2: to that. We got the Space Shuttle. It was like

1451
01:25:01,800 --> 01:25:05,640
Speaker 2: thirty years of that. The big change what's driving this

1452
01:25:05,760 --> 01:25:08,040
Speaker 2: and it makes some people uncomfortable, and I understand that

1453
01:25:08,360 --> 01:25:11,120
Speaker 2: is that a lot of the activity that's happening now

1454
01:25:11,240 --> 01:25:14,560
Speaker 2: is not being led by NASA or Dark Bow or departments.

1455
01:25:14,560 --> 01:25:16,320
Speaker 2: It's private companies that are going out there trying to

1456
01:25:16,320 --> 01:25:17,960
Speaker 2: figure out way to make a buck in space. They're

1457
01:25:18,040 --> 01:25:20,360
Speaker 2: trying to follow the space X and and you know,

1458
01:25:20,439 --> 01:25:24,280
Speaker 2: you've got the billionaire billionaire oligarchs Bezos Musk who are

1459
01:25:24,400 --> 01:25:26,240
Speaker 2: kind of driving the bus on that. But there's lots

1460
01:25:26,280 --> 01:25:31,920
Speaker 2: of other companies too, it's not just them, and so

1461
01:25:33,680 --> 01:25:37,320
Speaker 2: government programs would help. But what's really going to drive

1462
01:25:37,400 --> 01:25:39,479
Speaker 2: us forward in that future, I think is if private

1463
01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:44,240
Speaker 2: companies figure out a way to deliver that power, and

1464
01:25:44,560 --> 01:25:47,160
Speaker 2: government contracts certain would help speed that alone. But we've

1465
01:25:47,280 --> 01:25:50,280
Speaker 2: got to show it can be commercially viable to do

1466
01:25:50,400 --> 01:25:52,360
Speaker 2: these things, and we don't.

1467
01:25:52,200 --> 01:25:54,200
Speaker 1: Really have it, does I see what you're saying. But

1468
01:25:54,320 --> 01:25:57,360
Speaker 1: what you're saying right now, there's not a It's not

1469
01:25:57,520 --> 01:26:01,680
Speaker 1: as if that's the true for NASA, right. I mean,

1470
01:26:01,880 --> 01:26:05,120
Speaker 1: you could have Congress say your mission is to figure

1471
01:26:05,160 --> 01:26:09,280
Speaker 1: out what resource on the Moon is going to help mankind? Yes,

1472
01:26:09,360 --> 01:26:10,400
Speaker 1: what would we do differently?

1473
01:26:10,600 --> 01:26:15,519
Speaker 2: The Department Defense mission is to space dominance, right. NASA's

1474
01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:20,040
Speaker 2: mission is to explore, and there's no agency really that's

1475
01:26:20,080 --> 01:26:25,080
Speaker 2: doing commercial development of space. Things that would help would

1476
01:26:25,120 --> 01:26:28,760
Speaker 2: be like a directive from the US government that we

1477
01:26:28,920 --> 01:26:31,920
Speaker 2: want ten percent of our power to come from outer

1478
01:26:32,040 --> 01:26:34,960
Speaker 2: space by twenty fifty or something like that. That would

1479
01:26:35,040 --> 01:26:38,519
Speaker 2: really drive this kind of activity. But you're right, at

1480
01:26:38,560 --> 01:26:43,040
Speaker 2: this point, there is no overarching federal push to move

1481
01:26:43,200 --> 01:26:46,080
Speaker 2: all of these activities into space for the benefit of Earth.

1482
01:26:47,400 --> 01:26:55,080
Speaker 1: Let me use your meteorological expertise, but more on the

1483
01:26:55,120 --> 01:26:59,960
Speaker 1: commercial side. Who's got the best info on weather these days?

1484
01:27:00,160 --> 01:27:02,200
Speaker 1: Is it the private sector? Is it's still the government.

1485
01:27:02,960 --> 01:27:07,400
Speaker 2: It's the European Center for Medium Range Weather Forecasting ECMWF.

1486
01:27:07,800 --> 01:27:09,479
Speaker 1: How did they become the dominant player?

1487
01:27:10,200 --> 01:27:13,320
Speaker 2: Well, they invested in it. They invested both in putting

1488
01:27:13,400 --> 01:27:16,600
Speaker 2: supercomputing power toward it, but also in the ability to

1489
01:27:16,800 --> 01:27:19,160
Speaker 2: very quickly take real time data from around the planet

1490
01:27:19,200 --> 01:27:21,200
Speaker 2: and put it in their their global models. And now

1491
01:27:21,200 --> 01:27:23,519
Speaker 2: they're modeling is just far superior to what's being done

1492
01:27:23,520 --> 01:27:24,160
Speaker 2: in the United States.

1493
01:27:24,840 --> 01:27:28,000
Speaker 1: And why did we fall behind on this? Just lack

1494
01:27:28,040 --> 01:27:29,560
Speaker 1: of investment, lack of interest.

1495
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:34,800
Speaker 2: Lack of investment. You know, this was this happened. It

1496
01:27:34,960 --> 01:27:37,360
Speaker 2: wasn't a Republican or Democrat thing. It happened kind of

1497
01:27:37,400 --> 01:27:41,160
Speaker 2: over a decade or more. And obviously the recent cuts

1498
01:27:41,200 --> 01:27:45,120
Speaker 2: to NOAH, which which aren't so much affecting day to

1499
01:27:45,200 --> 01:27:47,839
Speaker 2: day forecasting as much as it is sort of draining

1500
01:27:48,000 --> 01:27:53,120
Speaker 2: the future of basically forecast improvement. So it's not it

1501
01:27:53,160 --> 01:27:54,320
Speaker 2: doesn't look like it's going to get better.

1502
01:27:54,880 --> 01:27:59,200
Speaker 1: In Tenson, does AI at all provide sort of a

1503
01:27:59,320 --> 01:28:02,040
Speaker 1: finger in the dyke aspect? To things like, Okay, we're

1504
01:28:02,120 --> 01:28:05,800
Speaker 1: not investing, but boy the boy, the acceleration of of

1505
01:28:06,000 --> 01:28:11,000
Speaker 1: AI tools in the weather forecasting space might does that

1506
01:28:11,080 --> 01:28:12,040
Speaker 1: close the gap at all?

1507
01:28:12,280 --> 01:28:16,479
Speaker 2: So that's a great question. And one of the really

1508
01:28:16,640 --> 01:28:20,240
Speaker 2: powerful applications of AI that I've seen has been in modeling.

1509
01:28:21,600 --> 01:28:23,960
Speaker 2: You know, to run a traditional physics space model, where

1510
01:28:23,960 --> 01:28:27,840
Speaker 2: basically you're trying to emulate all the activity of the

1511
01:28:27,880 --> 01:28:31,400
Speaker 2: physical processes around the world, and you need these vast

1512
01:28:31,439 --> 01:28:34,200
Speaker 2: supercomputers and take some hours to run through these complicated

1513
01:28:34,280 --> 01:28:37,800
Speaker 2: models to produce point by point forecasts. AI models don't

1514
01:28:37,880 --> 01:28:42,360
Speaker 2: use physics like that. They basically learn from past forecast

1515
01:28:42,439 --> 01:28:45,920
Speaker 2: conditions and to see what happened. And and those models,

1516
01:28:46,360 --> 01:28:48,519
Speaker 2: some of which can be run on a desktop computer,

1517
01:28:48,920 --> 01:28:50,240
Speaker 2: are shockingly.

1518
01:28:49,800 --> 01:28:53,120
Speaker 1: Good hurricane forecasting already.

1519
01:28:54,280 --> 01:28:57,320
Speaker 2: It that's to be determined, but early the early returns

1520
01:28:57,360 --> 01:28:59,439
Speaker 2: are that they are almost as good as or as

1521
01:28:59,520 --> 01:29:02,920
Speaker 2: good as the best physics space models in hurricane forecasting

1522
01:29:03,000 --> 01:29:06,400
Speaker 2: and other kinds of forecasting as well. It's really early innings, right,

1523
01:29:06,439 --> 01:29:09,160
Speaker 2: It's not like these are not mature products like the

1524
01:29:09,360 --> 01:29:11,840
Speaker 2: physics based models we've been working on for decades. These

1525
01:29:11,920 --> 01:29:15,720
Speaker 2: are months and years. So I do think AI has

1526
01:29:16,120 --> 01:29:21,040
Speaker 2: as a really opportunity to change the game. It remains

1527
01:29:21,080 --> 01:29:23,200
Speaker 2: to be seen to be me like by how much,

1528
01:29:23,400 --> 01:29:27,599
Speaker 2: but absolutely it's an important component of forecasting going forward.

1529
01:29:27,960 --> 01:29:31,519
Speaker 1: How good is the private sector in weather forecasting? Meaning

1530
01:29:31,640 --> 01:29:34,280
Speaker 1: are they throwing real money at it? As it's similar

1531
01:29:34,400 --> 01:29:38,080
Speaker 1: to what we've seen with SpaceX and Elon or is

1532
01:29:38,120 --> 01:29:41,160
Speaker 1: it not quite that mature of an industry if you will.

1533
01:29:43,120 --> 01:29:46,559
Speaker 2: The difference is that SpaceX could be its own space

1534
01:29:46,600 --> 01:29:49,599
Speaker 2: agency and in a lot of ways would be superior

1535
01:29:49,640 --> 01:29:53,080
Speaker 2: to NASA in the things it does. It does not

1536
01:29:53,240 --> 01:29:56,519
Speaker 2: need NASA anymore for a lot of lots of things.

1537
01:29:57,360 --> 01:30:01,120
Speaker 2: That's not true in the weather enterprise. Casters private companies

1538
01:30:01,160 --> 01:30:04,080
Speaker 2: still rely on the federal government to collect data, to

1539
01:30:04,200 --> 01:30:08,839
Speaker 2: store data, to run these large models, to run regional models.

1540
01:30:09,240 --> 01:30:14,400
Speaker 2: So there's this whole foundation that the governments in Europe,

1541
01:30:14,560 --> 01:30:19,320
Speaker 2: the United States, Japan, China have built and the private

1542
01:30:19,360 --> 01:30:21,479
Speaker 2: apparatus is kind of built upon that. If you were

1543
01:30:21,520 --> 01:30:25,240
Speaker 2: to remove that foundation, the private companies would stuffer significantly.

1544
01:30:25,560 --> 01:30:28,040
Speaker 1: So the private companies don't like these cuts to know.

1545
01:30:28,120 --> 01:30:32,360
Speaker 2: It, No, I don't think they do. Now you could

1546
01:30:32,400 --> 01:30:35,320
Speaker 2: see like someone from ACU Weather being made the no

1547
01:30:35,439 --> 01:30:38,320
Speaker 2: administrator who was like trying to hollow out some of

1548
01:30:38,360 --> 01:30:41,000
Speaker 2: the public facing products the National Weather Service does. They

1549
01:30:41,000 --> 01:30:44,720
Speaker 2: can come in and sell those, but the basic work

1550
01:30:44,760 --> 01:30:48,200
Speaker 2: that the federal government does, Yes, that's not good for anyone.

1551
01:30:48,720 --> 01:30:50,760
Speaker 1: If you could waive a magic wand and you know,

1552
01:30:51,200 --> 01:30:53,800
Speaker 1: eliminate politics out of this. What investments do you think

1553
01:30:53,880 --> 01:30:56,760
Speaker 1: we need to be making in weather data collection that

1554
01:30:56,840 --> 01:30:58,639
Speaker 1: we're not doing right now or that we're too slow

1555
01:30:58,680 --> 01:31:00,240
Speaker 1: in doing so.

1556
01:31:01,479 --> 01:31:04,960
Speaker 2: The things that we need to do are improving our

1557
01:31:05,040 --> 01:31:09,120
Speaker 2: ability to collect real time data around the planet, but

1558
01:31:09,280 --> 01:31:12,880
Speaker 2: especially in the oceans and atmosphere near the United States,

1559
01:31:13,680 --> 01:31:16,560
Speaker 2: and then we need to get much better systems to

1560
01:31:16,640 --> 01:31:19,920
Speaker 2: assimilate that data. But that I mean is just you

1561
01:31:20,040 --> 01:31:22,559
Speaker 2: take that data and get it into the computer models

1562
01:31:22,560 --> 01:31:24,840
Speaker 2: as quickly as possible, so you're starting with the best

1563
01:31:24,880 --> 01:31:27,559
Speaker 2: set of initial conditions you have. And one way where

1564
01:31:27,560 --> 01:31:29,680
Speaker 2: we're we could really improve that is if you think

1565
01:31:29,680 --> 01:31:33,240
Speaker 2: about all the airplanes that are taking off today from

1566
01:31:33,600 --> 01:31:34,640
Speaker 2: airports around.

1567
01:31:34,360 --> 01:31:35,960
Speaker 1: The world, it should be weather balloons.

1568
01:31:36,520 --> 01:31:37,880
Speaker 2: A lot of them. Are A lot of them are

1569
01:31:38,000 --> 01:31:39,800
Speaker 2: they have like a sensor on them that collect that

1570
01:31:39,960 --> 01:31:41,400
Speaker 2: data as it goes up. And now you get a

1571
01:31:41,479 --> 01:31:43,559
Speaker 2: very nice profile the atmosphere up to about thirty five

1572
01:31:43,600 --> 01:31:46,800
Speaker 2: thousand feet. The problem is a lot of that data

1573
01:31:46,880 --> 01:31:52,000
Speaker 2: is proprietary or it's not shared quickly enough. I would

1574
01:31:52,040 --> 01:31:54,519
Speaker 2: try to make that much more efficient and those kinds

1575
01:31:54,520 --> 01:31:57,479
Speaker 2: of things that we have the best possible information about

1576
01:31:57,479 --> 01:32:00,760
Speaker 2: our planet now, so that the five day forecast is I.

1577
01:32:00,840 --> 01:32:03,719
Speaker 1: Have to say, why why is that proprietary data?

1578
01:32:04,840 --> 01:32:07,160
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, if you're a company that has paid,

1579
01:32:07,800 --> 01:32:09,840
Speaker 2: you know, a million dollars to get your sensors or

1580
01:32:09,920 --> 01:32:13,320
Speaker 2: one hundred million dollars get your censors on United Airlines planes,

1581
01:32:13,840 --> 01:32:15,400
Speaker 2: then you probably want to sell that to the government

1582
01:32:15,479 --> 01:32:17,280
Speaker 2: at a high price, and the government may be willing

1583
01:32:17,320 --> 01:32:18,840
Speaker 2: to pay for some of it but not all of it.

1584
01:32:19,040 --> 01:32:20,720
Speaker 2: Or you know, it's just that kind of thing.

1585
01:32:21,960 --> 01:32:23,960
Speaker 1: The airplane can't get in the air without the government.

1586
01:32:24,000 --> 01:32:25,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't mean to sound like a you know,

1587
01:32:26,200 --> 01:32:28,320
Speaker 1: but it seems as if the government shouldn't have to

1588
01:32:29,200 --> 01:32:31,880
Speaker 1: have to pay for data collection that is sort of

1589
01:32:31,960 --> 01:32:38,720
Speaker 1: pickingbacking off of essentially government getting that airplane into the air.

1590
01:32:39,680 --> 01:32:41,840
Speaker 2: Well. I'm happy to talk space policy all day, but

1591
01:32:41,880 --> 01:32:44,000
Speaker 2: do you get pretty quickly into politics. I know, of

1592
01:32:44,080 --> 01:32:45,040
Speaker 2: those kinds of regulations.

1593
01:32:45,080 --> 01:32:47,200
Speaker 1: Oh, I hear you, but it's like that does seem

1594
01:32:47,800 --> 01:32:51,479
Speaker 1: it seems odd that the government would then have to

1595
01:32:51,560 --> 01:32:54,880
Speaker 1: pay for something that. Yeah, that it that, frankly is

1596
01:32:54,960 --> 01:32:58,880
Speaker 1: a This feels like a good that benefits everybody. Yeah,

1597
01:32:59,120 --> 01:33:01,720
Speaker 1: that it's not necessary, you know, I mean, I get

1598
01:33:01,760 --> 01:33:03,880
Speaker 1: the look, I get the private sector motivation and that

1599
01:33:03,960 --> 01:33:07,400
Speaker 1: specific thing, but everybody would benefit from that data.

1600
01:33:07,520 --> 01:33:10,760
Speaker 2: The airlines is certainly benefit from market forecasts.

1601
01:33:10,840 --> 01:33:14,479
Speaker 1: Right, which brings me to something that you know, did

1602
01:33:14,520 --> 01:33:19,240
Speaker 1: you think thirty years ago that being a meteorologist, Because

1603
01:33:19,280 --> 01:33:23,000
Speaker 1: it seems as if private companies all over the world

1604
01:33:23,080 --> 01:33:25,600
Speaker 1: want to hire their own meteorologists now different, you know,

1605
01:33:25,760 --> 01:33:27,920
Speaker 1: sports leagues now do it. And I say this with

1606
01:33:28,000 --> 01:33:32,360
Speaker 1: a little bit of personal ambition here. My daughter's a

1607
01:33:32,960 --> 01:33:37,599
Speaker 1: senior majoring in oceanography and minoring and meteorology and learning

1608
01:33:37,680 --> 01:33:42,160
Speaker 1: marine biology. And you know, there was a time twenty

1609
01:33:42,240 --> 01:33:46,040
Speaker 1: years ago, I don't there was really only the governments

1610
01:33:46,080 --> 01:33:49,439
Speaker 1: as a place to go. This does seem as if

1611
01:33:49,560 --> 01:33:53,000
Speaker 1: that the job market for people with this type of

1612
01:33:53,040 --> 01:33:54,439
Speaker 1: expertise has never been better.

1613
01:33:55,360 --> 01:34:00,479
Speaker 2: It is a great time to be a meteorologist, you know,

1614
01:34:00,760 --> 01:34:03,280
Speaker 2: with skills like I'll just give you a very basic

1615
01:34:03,360 --> 01:34:05,880
Speaker 2: example the kind of information the government does provide, but

1616
01:34:05,960 --> 01:34:07,880
Speaker 2: where the private company can step in. So let's say

1617
01:34:07,880 --> 01:34:11,040
Speaker 2: your Target corporation, and you've got shopping carts in the

1618
01:34:11,120 --> 01:34:14,160
Speaker 2: parking lot, and let's say if the wind speeds get

1619
01:34:14,200 --> 01:34:18,760
Speaker 2: above twenty three miles per hour, then those carts are

1620
01:34:18,800 --> 01:34:21,040
Speaker 2: blowing around and you can get lost, they could blow

1621
01:34:21,040 --> 01:34:23,759
Speaker 2: into cars, they become a hazard issues.

1622
01:34:23,880 --> 01:34:24,000
Speaker 1: Right.

1623
01:34:24,200 --> 01:34:27,000
Speaker 2: Uh, yeah, So you as target would love to know

1624
01:34:29,640 --> 01:34:32,080
Speaker 2: when it's at forecast the winds or forces to give

1625
01:34:32,080 --> 01:34:34,599
Speaker 2: about twenty three miles per hour at every store you operate,

1626
01:34:35,200 --> 01:34:37,040
Speaker 2: and then you can communicate that to bring in the

1627
01:34:37,120 --> 01:34:43,200
Speaker 2: cars or carts or do whatever. And so ten years ago,

1628
01:34:43,360 --> 01:34:45,160
Speaker 2: fifteen years ago, that's kind of where the private weather

1629
01:34:45,240 --> 01:34:47,439
Speaker 2: industry was like like sort of helping those kind of

1630
01:34:47,560 --> 01:34:50,880
Speaker 2: use cases. And it's just grown, especially as with climate change,

1631
01:34:50,960 --> 01:34:56,640
Speaker 2: weather becomes more uncertain and it's becomes more impactful. So

1632
01:34:56,800 --> 01:35:00,240
Speaker 2: it's it's just, you know, it's every business has their

1633
01:35:00,280 --> 01:35:03,479
Speaker 2: own specific you know, information they need about weather, and

1634
01:35:03,560 --> 01:35:06,760
Speaker 2: so it makes sense that this is happening, especially since

1635
01:35:06,800 --> 01:35:09,519
Speaker 2: the government provides it's a generalized product, you know, they

1636
01:35:09,640 --> 01:35:13,040
Speaker 2: provide the warnings for hurricanes and tornadoes and things like that.

1637
01:35:13,240 --> 01:35:16,160
Speaker 2: They don't provide specific forecast to target.

1638
01:35:16,479 --> 01:35:19,000
Speaker 1: Look the I think one of the more remarkable developments

1639
01:35:19,040 --> 01:35:22,280
Speaker 1: over the last fifteen years has been micro forecasting. You know,

1640
01:35:22,560 --> 01:35:24,880
Speaker 1: I sit here and I think, frankly, it's a it's

1641
01:35:25,240 --> 01:35:29,160
Speaker 1: it's something every local I'm trying desperately to come up,

1642
01:35:29,240 --> 01:35:31,400
Speaker 1: you know, work in this space of how do we

1643
01:35:32,160 --> 01:35:34,800
Speaker 1: expand more local news again, how do we revitalize it?

1644
01:35:35,439 --> 01:35:38,760
Speaker 1: And micro forecasting is something everybody wants. I mean, I

1645
01:35:38,880 --> 01:35:42,360
Speaker 1: live in the the Washington metro area. I don't want

1646
01:35:42,479 --> 01:35:45,640
Speaker 1: Washington DC weather. I want Arlington County weather, right, And

1647
01:35:45,800 --> 01:35:48,240
Speaker 1: I'm you know, for the most part, you can get

1648
01:35:48,320 --> 01:35:50,840
Speaker 1: that in Capital Weather Gang, which is one of the

1649
01:35:50,920 --> 01:35:54,080
Speaker 1: few local products that the Post does that is really

1650
01:35:54,520 --> 01:35:58,040
Speaker 1: really good and almost like reason alone when you live

1651
01:35:58,080 --> 01:36:02,439
Speaker 1: in this community to be a subscrip Bribert, this micro

1652
01:36:02,560 --> 01:36:05,280
Speaker 1: forecasting just wasn't possible. It seemed like fifteen years ago

1653
01:36:05,360 --> 01:36:08,000
Speaker 1: that this part of weather forecasting has really improved.

1654
01:36:08,760 --> 01:36:10,960
Speaker 2: So Capitol Weather Game folks are good friends of mine,

1655
01:36:11,120 --> 01:36:13,760
Speaker 2: and I operated a site in Houston called Spacity whether

1656
01:36:13,880 --> 01:36:17,720
Speaker 2: that's similar in scope to that, So I'm very well

1657
01:36:17,880 --> 01:36:21,240
Speaker 2: familiar with what you're talking about. I think the big change, Chuck,

1658
01:36:22,120 --> 01:36:24,920
Speaker 2: is the Internet. Like I worked at a newspaper before,

1659
01:36:25,360 --> 01:36:29,040
Speaker 2: and forecasting was your forecast was twelve to eighteen.

1660
01:36:28,840 --> 01:36:31,640
Speaker 1: Hours late by the time it automated to print. Right.

1661
01:36:31,800 --> 01:36:34,160
Speaker 2: So the Internet was a great equalizer because you could

1662
01:36:34,160 --> 01:36:35,880
Speaker 2: put as much information out there. You could share all

1663
01:36:35,960 --> 01:36:38,880
Speaker 2: kinds of graphics and things like that, and so it

1664
01:36:39,240 --> 01:36:41,960
Speaker 2: became a better medium than television for communicating that kind

1665
01:36:41,960 --> 01:36:44,720
Speaker 2: of information. So, yes, the forecasting tools have improved, but

1666
01:36:44,840 --> 01:36:47,320
Speaker 2: also the means of communication the medium.

1667
01:36:47,800 --> 01:36:50,280
Speaker 1: Well, let me add so the data itself was probably

1668
01:36:50,320 --> 01:36:52,400
Speaker 1: there fifteen years ago, we just didn't have a good

1669
01:36:52,439 --> 01:36:53,200
Speaker 1: way of sharing it.

1670
01:36:54,000 --> 01:36:58,000
Speaker 2: The data has certainly improved in terms of amount and

1671
01:36:58,160 --> 01:37:03,760
Speaker 2: accessibility online, but the ability to share it has also

1672
01:37:03,880 --> 01:37:05,240
Speaker 2: been a big piece of what's changed.

1673
01:37:06,680 --> 01:37:08,639
Speaker 1: Before I let you go tell me about arts Technica

1674
01:37:08,880 --> 01:37:12,559
Speaker 1: and tell me the mission and sort of I'm curious

1675
01:37:12,600 --> 01:37:16,040
Speaker 1: what you've thought of the transition from the Houston, you know,

1676
01:37:16,240 --> 01:37:17,840
Speaker 1: Houston Chronicle to this.

1677
01:37:18,680 --> 01:37:20,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, our Technic is a digital publication. It's been

1678
01:37:20,720 --> 01:37:23,800
Speaker 2: around for about twenty five years, bought by Conde Nasts

1679
01:37:24,000 --> 01:37:26,360
Speaker 2: about a decade ago or a little bit longer, and

1680
01:37:26,439 --> 01:37:30,599
Speaker 2: it's just it's just a news, technology, science, space news

1681
01:37:30,680 --> 01:37:35,360
Speaker 2: website where we try to, you know, provide rational information

1682
01:37:35,479 --> 01:37:37,000
Speaker 2: and increasingly irrational world.

1683
01:37:39,479 --> 01:37:42,200
Speaker 1: I hear there the transition. Do do you feel as

1684
01:37:42,240 --> 01:37:45,200
Speaker 1: if you're in the independent space or how do you

1685
01:37:45,320 --> 01:37:45,720
Speaker 1: describe it?

1686
01:37:46,360 --> 01:37:49,519
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what. I wrote a lot about NASA

1687
01:37:49,560 --> 01:37:52,479
Speaker 2: when I was at the Houston Chronicle covered Johnson Space Center.

1688
01:37:53,400 --> 01:37:56,320
Speaker 2: I did feel like I was more restrained writing for

1689
01:37:56,400 --> 01:37:58,920
Speaker 2: the traditional publication, Like there were times I wanted to

1690
01:37:59,000 --> 01:38:00,600
Speaker 2: take the gloves off a little bit and be a

1691
01:38:00,640 --> 01:38:04,160
Speaker 2: little more critical. And so moving online has been more

1692
01:38:04,240 --> 01:38:06,439
Speaker 2: freeing in that sense of being able to write more

1693
01:38:06,520 --> 01:38:07,840
Speaker 2: of what I want to write and what I think

1694
01:38:07,920 --> 01:38:08,920
Speaker 2: is most important to cover.

1695
01:38:09,479 --> 01:38:13,719
Speaker 1: What is your balance in writing for experts versus writing

1696
01:38:13,800 --> 01:38:16,599
Speaker 1: for lay people versus writing for the general public?

1697
01:38:16,720 --> 01:38:16,840
Speaker 2: Right?

1698
01:38:16,880 --> 01:38:19,720
Speaker 1: I think to me that's the real challenge. And maybe

1699
01:38:19,760 --> 01:38:22,439
Speaker 1: AI is going to be a great tool for this. Hey,

1700
01:38:23,080 --> 01:38:25,720
Speaker 1: you know, take this and help me translate it to

1701
01:38:26,479 --> 01:38:29,240
Speaker 1: an audience that doesn't have you know that maybe hasn't

1702
01:38:29,240 --> 01:38:31,519
Speaker 1: read up on this, etcetera, etcetera. But how do you

1703
01:38:31,640 --> 01:38:33,560
Speaker 1: think about it when you're writing? Who are you writing for?

1704
01:38:33,680 --> 01:38:34,120
Speaker 1: In your head.

1705
01:38:34,479 --> 01:38:36,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's a great question. So at the Chronicle

1706
01:38:36,600 --> 01:38:41,799
Speaker 2: it was very much a general lay audience. Ours Technica,

1707
01:38:41,960 --> 01:38:43,800
Speaker 2: as the name suggests, is a little bit more of

1708
01:38:43,880 --> 01:38:47,519
Speaker 2: a technical oriented site, so it's more for like a

1709
01:38:48,800 --> 01:38:50,920
Speaker 2: more informed audience. But still, I mean, you know, with

1710
01:38:51,240 --> 01:38:53,639
Speaker 2: space and other topics, you get pretty niche pretty quickly,

1711
01:38:53,720 --> 01:38:56,920
Speaker 2: and so I think I would say it's written for

1712
01:38:56,960 --> 01:38:58,679
Speaker 2: an intellectually curious audience.

1713
01:39:00,160 --> 01:39:02,280
Speaker 1: I'd like to think that that's where I qualify because

1714
01:39:02,280 --> 01:39:05,320
Speaker 1: I don't know any of the technolo the technology that well,

1715
01:39:05,360 --> 01:39:07,680
Speaker 1: but but I'm just enough to be dangerous enough to

1716
01:39:07,720 --> 01:39:12,120
Speaker 1: ask questions which is which is? I guess that's a start.

1717
01:39:12,840 --> 01:39:14,640
Speaker 2: You got to be curious about the natural world and

1718
01:39:14,680 --> 01:39:15,320
Speaker 2: want to learn more.

1719
01:39:15,760 --> 01:39:19,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is one more for you because it's something

1720
01:39:19,360 --> 01:39:22,320
Speaker 1: I've said to my daughter, since you're you're both you're

1721
01:39:22,560 --> 01:39:26,360
Speaker 1: you're into science on this planet and and in outer space.

1722
01:39:27,000 --> 01:39:30,280
Speaker 1: Do we know more about our solar system or our oceans?

1723
01:39:32,439 --> 01:39:35,200
Speaker 1: There's been this idea that we actually may not know

1724
01:39:35,280 --> 01:39:37,000
Speaker 1: as much about our oceans as we think we do.

1725
01:39:37,560 --> 01:39:39,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I I think that's that's that's a tough

1726
01:39:39,920 --> 01:39:41,840
Speaker 2: one for me to answer. There's certainly a lot of

1727
01:39:42,439 --> 01:39:45,360
Speaker 2: undiscovered country and our oceans as well as the Solar System.

1728
01:39:47,240 --> 01:39:50,639
Speaker 2: I do think we're more actively exploring the Solar System

1729
01:39:51,320 --> 01:39:54,000
Speaker 2: and have some pretty interesting missions that are in the works,

1730
01:39:54,040 --> 01:39:57,120
Speaker 2: are just flying to interesting places. So I think we've

1731
01:39:57,120 --> 01:40:00,400
Speaker 2: probably explored more of the Solar System than the but

1732
01:40:00,479 --> 01:40:03,160
Speaker 2: I also think there's probably more things to be discovered.

1733
01:40:04,280 --> 01:40:07,760
Speaker 2: As we talked about beneath the ice on Europa, we're

1734
01:40:07,840 --> 01:40:10,320
Speaker 2: sending a really cool mission to fly across the Saturn

1735
01:40:10,400 --> 01:40:13,040
Speaker 2: Moon Titan. There's lots of things to discover, whereas I

1736
01:40:13,120 --> 01:40:17,000
Speaker 2: don't think we're going to discover you know, super large

1737
01:40:17,040 --> 01:40:18,920
Speaker 2: new species as the part of the ocean, although I

1738
01:40:19,000 --> 01:40:19,599
Speaker 2: mean I don't.

1739
01:40:19,400 --> 01:40:22,160
Speaker 1: Know no, But is is there ocean exploration that would

1740
01:40:22,160 --> 01:40:26,800
Speaker 1: help with you know, sort of weather history, which then

1741
01:40:27,160 --> 01:40:28,920
Speaker 1: in turn would help with weather forecasting.

1742
01:40:29,320 --> 01:40:34,720
Speaker 2: So it's a great field called paleo tempestology, which looks.

1743
01:40:34,680 --> 01:40:40,160
Speaker 1: My daughter's favorite professor at Miami is a palaeontologist, weather climate.

1744
01:40:40,240 --> 01:40:42,519
Speaker 1: I forget what he called himself, but yes, in this field,

1745
01:40:42,760 --> 01:40:43,600
Speaker 1: it's fascinating.

1746
01:40:43,800 --> 01:40:46,280
Speaker 2: It is fascinating what you can learn by going out

1747
01:40:46,320 --> 01:40:50,640
Speaker 2: and studying the planet, and it just it's it's all beneficial.

1748
01:40:51,280 --> 01:40:54,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, uh, Eric, this is great. It was really great

1749
01:40:54,479 --> 01:40:55,960
Speaker 1: to get to know you as as you see, I'm

1750
01:40:56,000 --> 01:40:59,680
Speaker 1: sort of a junkie. He doesn't know very much about it,

1751
01:41:00,040 --> 01:41:04,240
Speaker 1: but it's desperate to want to know more. And am

1752
01:41:04,280 --> 01:41:08,840
Speaker 1: I Do you hate the for All Mankind references? And

1753
01:41:09,040 --> 01:41:10,920
Speaker 1: when people like me ask you those questions? Or do

1754
01:41:11,000 --> 01:41:15,040
Speaker 1: you find that that show is actually healthy for your beat?

1755
01:41:15,280 --> 01:41:18,719
Speaker 1: Because I say this in that I hate the West Wing. Okay,

1756
01:41:19,000 --> 01:41:21,479
Speaker 1: I can't stand when people say to me, how come

1757
01:41:21,520 --> 01:41:23,080
Speaker 1: this is it like the West Wing? God damn it,

1758
01:41:23,160 --> 01:41:24,880
Speaker 1: That's not the way it works. And yet here I

1759
01:41:25,040 --> 01:41:28,200
Speaker 1: am taking a fantasy TV show and trying to apply

1760
01:41:28,280 --> 01:41:30,799
Speaker 1: it to the real world. So I'm curious your reaction

1761
01:41:30,920 --> 01:41:31,080
Speaker 1: on that.

1762
01:41:31,240 --> 01:41:32,880
Speaker 2: So first of all, I say, what about VP? Does

1763
01:41:32,920 --> 01:41:34,320
Speaker 2: that more accurately portray well?

1764
01:41:34,400 --> 01:41:36,920
Speaker 1: VIEP is more accurate? Yes, that is the more correct

1765
01:41:37,000 --> 01:41:39,479
Speaker 1: version of how our share show really works.

1766
01:41:39,560 --> 01:41:42,680
Speaker 2: Yes, my favorite show about to White House Politics, So

1767
01:41:42,840 --> 01:41:46,439
Speaker 2: I would say I like it because I think For

1768
01:41:46,520 --> 01:41:51,080
Speaker 2: All Mankind does. One of the technical consultants is Garrett Reesman,

1769
01:41:51,200 --> 01:41:54,120
Speaker 2: a former Astronauts friend of mine. He does a great

1770
01:41:54,200 --> 01:41:55,800
Speaker 2: job sort of trying to keep it real and I

1771
01:41:55,880 --> 01:42:00,439
Speaker 2: think anything that increases public interest and exploration, I mean space.

1772
01:42:00,439 --> 01:42:02,080
Speaker 2: At the end of the day, everyone was kind of interested,

1773
01:42:02,160 --> 01:42:03,880
Speaker 2: but it's kind of like a mile wide and an

1774
01:42:03,920 --> 01:42:06,000
Speaker 2: inch deep, and so anything that sort of deepens that

1775
01:42:06,120 --> 01:42:07,600
Speaker 2: interest is is valuable to me.

1776
01:42:08,400 --> 01:42:10,360
Speaker 1: Well, look, it's I'm glad to hear that on the

1777
01:42:10,400 --> 01:42:12,760
Speaker 1: space side, because I was really impressed at how they

1778
01:42:12,800 --> 01:42:16,639
Speaker 1: handled the politics, the alternative history there they were. They

1779
01:42:16,760 --> 01:42:20,000
Speaker 1: made some they made turns of who would win, who

1780
01:42:20,040 --> 01:42:21,720
Speaker 1: would lose, and all this stuff, and they were very

1781
01:42:21,760 --> 01:42:26,080
Speaker 1: clever about it. That wasn't unrealistic based on different forks

1782
01:42:26,120 --> 01:42:27,519
Speaker 1: in the road. So I'm glad to know that that

1783
01:42:28,000 --> 01:42:29,800
Speaker 1: as a as on the on the space side and

1784
01:42:29,840 --> 01:42:33,840
Speaker 1: the technical side, that they they tried to stay I

1785
01:42:33,920 --> 01:42:36,840
Speaker 1: guess within within the possible they get.

1786
01:42:36,880 --> 01:42:39,120
Speaker 2: I think it was an attempt to make a realistic

1787
01:42:39,560 --> 01:42:40,280
Speaker 2: fictional show.

1788
01:42:40,600 --> 01:42:43,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and no, it did, and it made a lot

1789
01:42:43,920 --> 01:42:45,840
Speaker 1: of sense if if you know, if we had lost

1790
01:42:45,920 --> 01:42:49,639
Speaker 1: to the Soviets, I do believe we would have acted, well,

1791
01:42:49,800 --> 01:42:51,840
Speaker 1: we're not going to lose anything else, let's throw it

1792
01:42:52,080 --> 01:42:55,960
Speaker 1: in more resources. That is that is uh, the American way. Anyway,

1793
01:42:56,240 --> 01:42:58,439
Speaker 1: Eric Burger, this was terrific. Thanks for your time. Thank you,

1794
01:42:58,880 --> 01:43:12,920
Speaker 1: you got it well, I hope I scratched your geek

1795
01:43:13,000 --> 01:43:15,880
Speaker 1: itch there on that. I know, I scratched my Space

1796
01:43:15,960 --> 01:43:19,640
Speaker 1: geek itch. And ultimately, you know I got. One of

1797
01:43:19,680 --> 01:43:22,240
Speaker 1: the great pieces of advice I got about podcasting is

1798
01:43:23,600 --> 01:43:26,120
Speaker 1: if you're not interested in the guest, neither's your audience.

1799
01:43:26,280 --> 01:43:28,439
Speaker 1: If you're interested in the guest, it's likely that your

1800
01:43:28,439 --> 01:43:30,600
Speaker 1: audience will be interested in the guest. So I am

1801
01:43:30,840 --> 01:43:33,679
Speaker 1: marking that time. But it is time for the podcast

1802
01:43:33,760 --> 01:43:44,840
Speaker 1: time machine. Where are we going? Where could we be going? Well,

1803
01:43:45,680 --> 01:43:48,479
Speaker 1: where are we going? We are going and give you

1804
01:43:48,560 --> 01:43:50,160
Speaker 1: the date, the specific date.

1805
01:43:50,240 --> 01:43:50,400
Speaker 2: Here.

1806
01:43:51,560 --> 01:43:54,680
Speaker 1: We are going to October twenty fifth. As you know, right,

1807
01:43:54,800 --> 01:43:57,560
Speaker 1: I'm always looking at the week, the week we're in.

1808
01:43:58,040 --> 01:44:01,600
Speaker 1: So October twenty fifth, this week, where that is the

1809
01:44:01,760 --> 01:44:05,519
Speaker 1: date I am latching onto because in October twenty fifth,

1810
01:44:06,520 --> 01:44:10,960
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty nine, the United States government and a jury,

1811
01:44:11,880 --> 01:44:14,960
Speaker 1: and a jury made up of US citizens, convicted the

1812
01:44:15,120 --> 01:44:20,920
Speaker 1: first ever Cabinet secretary to prison. And it all had

1813
01:44:20,960 --> 01:44:23,640
Speaker 1: to do, and in fact, it all happened. He gets convicted,

1814
01:44:23,720 --> 01:44:26,080
Speaker 1: and a couple of days later, the stock market crash

1815
01:44:26,200 --> 01:44:31,960
Speaker 1: and the Roaring twenties come to a total and complete end.

1816
01:44:32,600 --> 01:44:35,320
Speaker 1: But that's where I want to bring you. So October

1817
01:44:35,360 --> 01:44:37,360
Speaker 1: twenty fifth, nineteen twenty nine, how did we get to

1818
01:44:37,439 --> 01:44:40,880
Speaker 1: that point where we prosecuted a cabinet secretary? He was

1819
01:44:40,960 --> 01:44:44,439
Speaker 1: prosecuted for his role in so called Teapot Dome. So

1820
01:44:46,000 --> 01:44:49,720
Speaker 1: this is I've been teasing about this. Let's talk about it.

1821
01:44:49,800 --> 01:44:52,479
Speaker 1: It was the Roaring twenties. It was a decade that

1822
01:44:52,640 --> 01:44:57,080
Speaker 1: treated oil like we treat data today, the fuel of

1823
01:44:57,160 --> 01:45:01,120
Speaker 1: the future, limitless and irresistible. Right, the car was just

1824
01:45:01,200 --> 01:45:04,719
Speaker 1: coming up. Everybody realized how important oil was. Well, data

1825
01:45:04,880 --> 01:45:07,560
Speaker 1: is that thing today. Just setting that aside there, just

1826
01:45:07,600 --> 01:45:10,679
Speaker 1: be thinking about that. But let's go back to the twenties.

1827
01:45:11,040 --> 01:45:12,800
Speaker 1: At the center of all of it sat a rock

1828
01:45:12,920 --> 01:45:16,200
Speaker 1: formation in the Wyoming Desert that was shaped like a teapot.

1829
01:45:16,479 --> 01:45:19,040
Speaker 1: This is how the scandal got its name. Beneath it,

1830
01:45:19,160 --> 01:45:22,880
Speaker 1: the US Navy had stored millions of barrels of crude

1831
01:45:23,160 --> 01:45:27,479
Speaker 1: oil for wartime emergencies. This site was called Teapot Dome.

1832
01:45:28,400 --> 01:45:31,000
Speaker 1: When Warren G. Hardy became president in nineteen twenty one,

1833
01:45:31,479 --> 01:45:35,160
Speaker 1: he promised to make Washington run like a business. We've

1834
01:45:35,200 --> 01:45:38,880
Speaker 1: heard that before, right, He was genial, handsome, little bit

1835
01:45:38,920 --> 01:45:41,960
Speaker 1: more of a salesman than manager, and his poker knights

1836
01:45:41,960 --> 01:45:45,200
Speaker 1: in the White House reflected that the press called his

1837
01:45:45,280 --> 01:45:48,000
Speaker 1: inner circle the Ohio Gang. These were members of his

1838
01:45:49,120 --> 01:45:52,479
Speaker 1: regular poker gang. They were his friends from Marion, Ohio,

1839
01:45:53,240 --> 01:45:56,760
Speaker 1: Harding's newspaper pals. They were campaign backers and other hanger ons,

1840
01:45:56,760 --> 01:46:00,800
Speaker 1: and followed into DC the Attorney General, Harrydaughtry. He used

1841
01:46:00,840 --> 01:46:03,720
Speaker 1: the Justice Department as a political machine, part of the

1842
01:46:03,800 --> 01:46:07,320
Speaker 1: Ohio Gang. Charles Forbes at the Veterans Bureau skimmed hospital

1843
01:46:07,360 --> 01:46:10,760
Speaker 1: construction contracts and fled to Europe when he got caught.

1844
01:46:12,000 --> 01:46:15,400
Speaker 1: Jess Smith was the fixer for Harry Daughtry at Justice.

1845
01:46:16,280 --> 01:46:19,920
Speaker 1: He killed himself as investigations began to close in. It

1846
01:46:20,000 --> 01:46:22,760
Speaker 1: was a government that looked like a poker table full

1847
01:46:22,800 --> 01:46:28,839
Speaker 1: of cigars and whiskeys, and IOUs into that circle stepped

1848
01:46:28,840 --> 01:46:33,240
Speaker 1: another man, Albert Bacon Fall. He was a hard drinking

1849
01:46:33,479 --> 01:46:38,799
Speaker 1: former senator from New Mexico. Harding admired his frontier swagger

1850
01:46:39,080 --> 01:46:41,880
Speaker 1: this New Mexico in the nineteen teens and twenties. Right

1851
01:46:42,479 --> 01:46:46,080
Speaker 1: Fall ran the Interior Department, and he saw those idle

1852
01:46:46,240 --> 01:46:51,160
Speaker 1: navy oil reserves as wasted assets. Harding, trusting his friend

1853
01:46:51,320 --> 01:46:56,040
Speaker 1: mister Fall, signed an executive order that quietly transferred control

1854
01:46:56,120 --> 01:46:58,759
Speaker 1: of those fields from the Navy to the Interior Department.

1855
01:47:00,200 --> 01:47:04,479
Speaker 1: Fall then leased them without competitive bidding to two oil barons,

1856
01:47:05,360 --> 01:47:10,400
Speaker 1: Harry F. Sinclair, founder of Sinclair Oil. He took Teapot

1857
01:47:10,479 --> 01:47:14,000
Speaker 1: Dome in Wyoming, and yes, that's the same Sinclair Era

1858
01:47:14,160 --> 01:47:17,120
Speaker 1: with the green Dinosaur logo still operating out of Tulsa today.

1859
01:47:18,680 --> 01:47:22,240
Speaker 1: Edward L. Dohiney was the head of the Pan American

1860
01:47:22,320 --> 01:47:27,320
Speaker 1: Petroleum and Transport Company. He received the California naval reserves

1861
01:47:27,439 --> 01:47:31,000
Speaker 1: at oil reserves at Elk's, Elk Hills and Buena Vista.

1862
01:47:31,800 --> 01:47:35,599
Speaker 1: Dony's firm would eventually be absorbed into Standard Oil of Indiana,

1863
01:47:36,040 --> 01:47:40,880
Speaker 1: later Amaco and then BP. Sort of a corporate fossil

1864
01:47:40,920 --> 01:47:45,400
Speaker 1: that still traces roots to this deal. So what did

1865
01:47:45,520 --> 01:47:48,200
Speaker 1: Fall get in return? Well, he got four hundred thousand dollars,

1866
01:47:48,720 --> 01:47:53,040
Speaker 1: which is seven million dollars in today's dollars in loans

1867
01:47:53,320 --> 01:47:58,640
Speaker 1: and gifts. One infamous delivery saw Downy's son carry a

1868
01:47:58,720 --> 01:48:02,839
Speaker 1: black bag full of cat straight into Falls Washington apartment.

1869
01:48:04,560 --> 01:48:06,960
Speaker 1: We haven't had fifty thousand dollars paper bags of cash

1870
01:48:07,000 --> 01:48:10,240
Speaker 1: in any story lately have we? But I digress. When

1871
01:48:10,280 --> 01:48:13,240
Speaker 1: the story leaked in nineteen twenty two, the US Senate

1872
01:48:13,280 --> 01:48:16,200
Speaker 1: decided to launch hearings led by Senator Thomas Walsh of Montana,

1873
01:48:16,240 --> 01:48:19,240
Speaker 1: a Democrat. Harding, weary and embarrassed, set off on a

1874
01:48:19,280 --> 01:48:23,000
Speaker 1: cross country voyage of understanding in order to reconnect with

1875
01:48:23,080 --> 01:48:26,479
Speaker 1: the public. Essentially, pay no attention to these scandal headlines

1876
01:48:26,520 --> 01:48:29,880
Speaker 1: that you're seeing. By the summer of nineteen twenty three,

1877
01:48:30,240 --> 01:48:33,000
Speaker 1: twenty three, rumors were swirling not just about Teapot Dome,

1878
01:48:33,439 --> 01:48:36,479
Speaker 1: but about Harding's personal life as well. He had carried

1879
01:48:36,520 --> 01:48:38,840
Speaker 1: on a long affair with a woman named Nan Britton,

1880
01:48:39,520 --> 01:48:42,559
Speaker 1: who claimed her daughter was Harding's child. It's a claim

1881
01:48:42,600 --> 01:48:45,240
Speaker 1: that would be confirmed by DNA tests in twenty fifteen.

1882
01:48:45,320 --> 01:48:49,040
Speaker 1: By the way, another mistress, Carrie Phillips, had written him

1883
01:48:49,160 --> 01:48:53,160
Speaker 1: hundreds of steamy letters the Republican Party would pay to suppress.

1884
01:48:55,120 --> 01:49:00,639
Speaker 1: So when Harding collapsed in San Francisco that August nineteen

1885
01:49:00,640 --> 01:49:03,760
Speaker 1: twenty three and died suddenly at the age of fifty seven.

1886
01:49:04,160 --> 01:49:07,439
Speaker 1: Remember he was a little bit overweight, the whispers spread

1887
01:49:07,479 --> 01:49:10,160
Speaker 1: faster than the telegrams had he been poisoned this this

1888
01:49:10,280 --> 01:49:12,599
Speaker 1: is something to do with teapot, don't had he died

1889
01:49:12,640 --> 01:49:15,439
Speaker 1: in bed with another woman. The truth, of course, was

1890
01:49:15,479 --> 01:49:17,600
Speaker 1: more mundane. He likely had a heart attack brought on

1891
01:49:17,680 --> 01:49:21,200
Speaker 1: by exhaustion and bad health. But the gossip boy did

1892
01:49:21,240 --> 01:49:26,000
Speaker 1: that stick because the corruption already felt contagious after his death,

1893
01:49:26,560 --> 01:49:31,200
Speaker 1: President Calvin Coolidge silent cow allowed investigators to keep digging

1894
01:49:31,200 --> 01:49:34,040
Speaker 1: because he really wasn't that involved in this. In nineteen

1895
01:49:34,080 --> 01:49:37,720
Speaker 1: twenty seven, the Supreme Court voided both leases, calling them

1896
01:49:37,760 --> 01:49:41,639
Speaker 1: products of corruption and fraud. And on October twenty fifth,

1897
01:49:42,439 --> 01:49:45,120
Speaker 1: which will be coming up pretty soon, so we're almost

1898
01:49:45,120 --> 01:49:47,640
Speaker 1: at the one hundredth anniversary. That the ninety sixth anniversary,

1899
01:49:48,200 --> 01:49:51,320
Speaker 1: Albert Fall was convicted of bribery. He'd be the first U. S.

1900
01:49:51,360 --> 01:49:54,280
Speaker 1: Cabinet member ever sent to prison. He served nine months,

1901
01:49:54,600 --> 01:49:58,320
Speaker 1: and he died penniless a decade later. He didn't I

1902
01:49:58,360 --> 01:49:59,880
Speaker 1: guess he didn't have a president that was willing to

1903
01:50:00,080 --> 01:50:04,040
Speaker 1: pardon him or commute his sentence. But I digress. That

1904
01:50:04,120 --> 01:50:06,639
Speaker 1: convention came the very same week the stock market crash,

1905
01:50:07,479 --> 01:50:10,960
Speaker 1: ending the Roaring twenties with some poetic symmetry, a nation

1906
01:50:11,560 --> 01:50:16,960
Speaker 1: drunk on speculation finally waking up with a hangover look.

1907
01:50:17,880 --> 01:50:20,439
Speaker 1: I bring this up not because it's an interesting nugget

1908
01:50:20,479 --> 01:50:23,640
Speaker 1: in history, but because, as we know, history as a

1909
01:50:23,720 --> 01:50:27,160
Speaker 1: way of not quite repeating itself. But boyd does it run.

1910
01:50:29,160 --> 01:50:31,639
Speaker 1: So here we are a century later. The names have changed,

1911
01:50:31,680 --> 01:50:34,879
Speaker 1: but the temptation hasn't. One hundred years ago, it was oilies.

1912
01:50:35,400 --> 01:50:40,080
Speaker 1: Now it's the public private partnerships, infrastructure megaprojects, defense startups,

1913
01:50:40,160 --> 01:50:44,360
Speaker 1: crypto mining zones, social media ventures, all dressed up as innovation,

1914
01:50:45,000 --> 01:50:48,040
Speaker 1: all blurring who's serving whom. President Trump has made these

1915
01:50:48,120 --> 01:50:52,519
Speaker 1: deals a centerpiece of his second term. Some may be legitimate, but,

1916
01:50:52,640 --> 01:50:58,840
Speaker 1: as with Harding, personal loyalty often outruns public accountability. The

1917
01:50:59,000 --> 01:51:02,840
Speaker 1: language is even really familiar. Right efficiency, cutting red tape,

1918
01:51:03,200 --> 01:51:06,760
Speaker 1: bringing business savvy to government. Harding used that language, So

1919
01:51:06,880 --> 01:51:11,520
Speaker 1: does Trump. Albert Fall use those phrases to justify bypassing

1920
01:51:11,840 --> 01:51:17,280
Speaker 1: the competitive bidding rules. Teapot Dome taught Congress why oversight

1921
01:51:17,439 --> 01:51:21,280
Speaker 1: is not bureaucracy, it's protection. It birthed, in fact, the

1922
01:51:21,439 --> 01:51:25,080
Speaker 1: modern system of inspectors general at different cabinet agencies. We

1923
01:51:25,120 --> 01:51:29,080
Speaker 1: didn't have them before this. Financial disclosures, senate investigations that

1924
01:51:29,160 --> 01:51:33,760
Speaker 1: still bear Washle's fingerprints, the Montana Senator. But the guardrails

1925
01:51:33,800 --> 01:51:36,000
Speaker 1: only work if we use them, and this Congress does

1926
01:51:36,280 --> 01:51:41,840
Speaker 1: no oversight. We've gone through this the politically, we only

1927
01:51:42,080 --> 01:51:45,080
Speaker 1: will do Congress will only do oversight if the president,

1928
01:51:45,120 --> 01:51:47,640
Speaker 1: and if Congress is controlled by a different party than

1929
01:51:47,680 --> 01:51:50,720
Speaker 1: the president in the White House. It actually probably we

1930
01:51:50,760 --> 01:51:52,800
Speaker 1: ought to change our oversight rules. I believe Japan does

1931
01:51:52,840 --> 01:51:55,120
Speaker 1: it this way, where the out party should always be

1932
01:51:55,160 --> 01:51:58,200
Speaker 1: in charge of oversight, just pure and simple. You know,

1933
01:51:58,280 --> 01:52:02,040
Speaker 1: whatever party the president is, the chairman of the oversight

1934
01:52:02,080 --> 01:52:05,160
Speaker 1: committee with subpoena power ought to be ought to be

1935
01:52:05,280 --> 01:52:10,280
Speaker 1: from the other party. But I digress. So making government

1936
01:52:10,400 --> 01:52:13,200
Speaker 1: run like a business sounds good until the business becomes

1937
01:52:13,200 --> 01:52:15,439
Speaker 1: self dealing. And that's what happened with Harding, and that

1938
01:52:15,560 --> 01:52:18,160
Speaker 1: is a concern of what's happening today. Harding's friends called

1939
01:52:18,240 --> 01:52:20,320
Speaker 1: him the most likable man alive, and that was the problem.

1940
01:52:20,400 --> 01:52:23,599
Speaker 1: He couldn't say no to anyone he liked. Sounds familiar,

1941
01:52:23,640 --> 01:52:26,400
Speaker 1: doesn't it Today is the federal government signs profit sharing

1942
01:52:26,439 --> 01:52:29,679
Speaker 1: deals with companies tied to the president's allies and family network.

1943
01:52:29,760 --> 01:52:33,240
Speaker 1: The same question Lingers that haunted teapot Dome. Where does

1944
01:52:33,280 --> 01:52:37,439
Speaker 1: public service and and private profit begin? If history has

1945
01:52:37,439 --> 01:52:39,960
Speaker 1: a lesson, it's this when secrecy and self interest merge.

1946
01:52:40,360 --> 01:52:45,519
Speaker 1: The scandal isn't an accident, It's inevitable. So before we

1947
01:52:45,600 --> 01:52:48,120
Speaker 1: all call every new venture a partnership, remember what happened

1948
01:52:48,120 --> 01:52:51,240
Speaker 1: in October twenty fifth, nineteen twenty nine, when Albert Fall

1949
01:52:51,320 --> 01:52:54,519
Speaker 1: traded the nation's trust for personal gain. And he fell

1950
01:52:54,600 --> 01:52:57,920
Speaker 1: hard enough to give his name to history on this one.

1951
01:52:58,880 --> 01:53:01,679
Speaker 1: So there's your history lesson for the day, Teapot Dome.

1952
01:53:02,040 --> 01:53:05,439
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, folks, forget Watergate. Are you looking for

1953
01:53:05,520 --> 01:53:08,320
Speaker 1: a parallel of an uncomfortable situation we're in right now

1954
01:53:08,680 --> 01:53:13,519
Speaker 1: with the government's relationship with the tech industry. Go back

1955
01:53:13,640 --> 01:53:16,320
Speaker 1: to the twenties, my friend, go back to the twenties.

1956
01:53:16,800 --> 01:53:18,360
Speaker 1: All right, with that, let's take a new Let's do

1957
01:53:18,520 --> 01:53:20,320
Speaker 1: a couple of questions, and I'll get in quickly to

1958
01:53:20,400 --> 01:53:27,880
Speaker 1: my college football takes. Ask Chuck. I'm going to do

1959
01:53:28,000 --> 01:53:29,800
Speaker 1: just a couple questions because I went a little bit long.

1960
01:53:30,360 --> 01:53:33,320
Speaker 1: Here's the first one, Rich from New York. Hi, Chuck,

1961
01:53:33,400 --> 01:53:35,680
Speaker 1: love the show. Appreciate all you do for all of us.

1962
01:53:35,800 --> 01:53:38,680
Speaker 1: Keeping a level head in politics. On Saturday, I participated

1963
01:53:39,000 --> 01:53:40,760
Speaker 1: in the No Kings march. It had great energy, but

1964
01:53:40,800 --> 01:53:42,679
Speaker 1: at a minimum made me feel like I'm not crazy

1965
01:53:42,880 --> 01:53:45,400
Speaker 1: for my outrage other than my own personal feelings. Does

1966
01:53:45,439 --> 01:53:47,320
Speaker 1: it have any impact on politics? It seems to me

1967
01:53:47,640 --> 01:53:50,360
Speaker 1: these protests were large and blue northern cities where the

1968
01:53:50,400 --> 01:53:53,680
Speaker 1: Trump administration has been hostile. Additionally, this will have zero

1969
01:53:53,760 --> 01:53:56,280
Speaker 1: to no effect on Mike Johnson or John Thune, and

1970
01:53:56,400 --> 01:53:58,320
Speaker 1: it also won't have any real effects on the midterms.

1971
01:53:58,400 --> 01:53:59,960
Speaker 1: Lay it to me straight, Did I waste my Saturday

1972
01:54:00,120 --> 01:54:04,120
Speaker 1: or is there something accomplished from the protest? Thanks? Well, look,

1973
01:54:04,360 --> 01:54:06,840
Speaker 1: I'm curious what you think of the what I said

1974
01:54:06,880 --> 01:54:10,840
Speaker 1: the two measurables were measurables were of this? I do think, like,

1975
01:54:11,000 --> 01:54:16,600
Speaker 1: you know, if Democrats overperform in Virginia in November, and

1976
01:54:17,240 --> 01:54:20,120
Speaker 1: to me, overperform, is you know, getting north of fifty

1977
01:54:20,200 --> 01:54:23,479
Speaker 1: five state house seats, winning all three of the state

1978
01:54:23,520 --> 01:54:27,080
Speaker 1: wide elections, even with an extraordinarily flawed, if not unqualified

1979
01:54:27,080 --> 01:54:29,760
Speaker 1: candidate for attorney general. Well that will tell you. These

1980
01:54:29,800 --> 01:54:35,640
Speaker 1: protests were certainly helped with political organizing. I think the

1981
01:54:36,600 --> 01:54:41,040
Speaker 1: fact that the president expressed his feelings so grotesquely and

1982
01:54:41,160 --> 01:54:45,840
Speaker 1: there's been this sort of demonization of Americans here. I

1983
01:54:45,960 --> 01:54:49,000
Speaker 1: think that actually is going to have some legs that

1984
01:54:51,040 --> 01:54:58,560
Speaker 1: likely won't go well politically for the Republicans. But again,

1985
01:54:59,600 --> 01:55:02,000
Speaker 1: you're not wrong for asking this question. It was the

1986
01:55:02,080 --> 01:55:05,880
Speaker 1: question I essentially led the podcast with today to which

1987
01:55:05,960 --> 01:55:08,200
Speaker 1: if you're listening all the way through, you already know this,

1988
01:55:10,640 --> 01:55:13,280
Speaker 1: But I will say this, be careful underestimating the impact

1989
01:55:13,360 --> 01:55:17,560
Speaker 1: of these protests. I think it's quite remarkable that where

1990
01:55:17,600 --> 01:55:19,880
Speaker 1: there was an incredibly nice day all over the country

1991
01:55:19,920 --> 01:55:23,920
Speaker 1: in many places, well actually, unless you were in Fayetteville, Arkansas,

1992
01:55:23,960 --> 01:55:25,320
Speaker 1: where they had a two hour rain delay for that

1993
01:55:25,360 --> 01:55:28,880
Speaker 1: football game, it was a pretty nice day. In a

1994
01:55:28,920 --> 01:55:32,720
Speaker 1: lot of these cities, there was plenty of reasons to

1995
01:55:32,960 --> 01:55:40,560
Speaker 1: do other things. I think this, You know, if it's

1996
01:55:40,640 --> 01:55:46,440
Speaker 1: a trigger in political organization and voter registration, then that's

1997
01:55:46,480 --> 01:55:48,480
Speaker 1: how you can call these effective. All right, let me

1998
01:55:48,520 --> 01:55:51,360
Speaker 1: dig the next questionnaire. David from Baltimore. Since most people

1999
01:55:51,400 --> 01:55:54,200
Speaker 1: assume that liberals control the mainstream media. While there may

2000
01:55:54,240 --> 01:55:55,880
Speaker 1: be a moderate liberal slant in much of the news,

2001
01:55:55,960 --> 01:55:57,960
Speaker 1: or at least in what's left of it, I feel

2002
01:55:57,960 --> 01:56:00,920
Speaker 1: that MAGA actually dominates the talking points. Trump in particular,

2003
01:56:01,000 --> 01:56:02,720
Speaker 1: has mastered the art of deflection when it comes to

2004
01:56:02,800 --> 01:56:06,520
Speaker 1: media coverage. Simple remarks, some like suggesting he might run again,

2005
01:56:06,600 --> 01:56:08,680
Speaker 1: end up distracting the public from issues such as the

2006
01:56:08,800 --> 01:56:11,800
Speaker 1: legality of ICE raids, military actions in Venezuela, or the

2007
01:56:11,800 --> 01:56:14,920
Speaker 1: blatant corruption involving Trump and his family, all three topics

2008
01:56:14,960 --> 01:56:17,840
Speaker 1: that I think we've already discussed in this episode and

2009
01:56:18,200 --> 01:56:21,840
Speaker 1: didn't do too much on Ice. How can democrats regain

2010
01:56:21,880 --> 01:56:24,000
Speaker 1: control of the narrative and keep public attention focused on

2011
01:56:24,080 --> 01:56:26,680
Speaker 1: the issues that matter most, especially those that could make

2012
01:56:26,720 --> 01:56:31,120
Speaker 1: a real difference in future elections. David for Baltimore. Look,

2013
01:56:31,200 --> 01:56:34,280
Speaker 1: I do think you know it's funny. I do think

2014
01:56:34,360 --> 01:56:38,440
Speaker 1: that all media consumption has a right lean. Right. If

2015
01:56:38,440 --> 01:56:41,560
Speaker 1: you look at the totality of social media, the totality

2016
01:56:41,680 --> 01:56:46,600
Speaker 1: of if you put it all together, the ideological lean

2017
01:56:47,120 --> 01:56:50,120
Speaker 1: and the sort of impact is on the right. Right.

2018
01:56:50,640 --> 01:56:52,360
Speaker 1: There's definitely more on the right than on the left.

2019
01:56:54,480 --> 01:56:58,680
Speaker 1: The right's a bit more comfortable, sort of sort of

2020
01:56:58,800 --> 01:57:03,000
Speaker 1: rallying around one large talking point. The left is more diffuse. Right,

2021
01:57:03,520 --> 01:57:06,560
Speaker 1: I think the fact is that Trump, the anti Trump

2022
01:57:06,680 --> 01:57:09,720
Speaker 1: coalition does not have a lot in common other than

2023
01:57:09,760 --> 01:57:14,120
Speaker 1: anti Trump, The pro Trump coalition has a ton in common.

2024
01:57:14,200 --> 01:57:17,280
Speaker 1: They feel grievance and victimhood and all of this in

2025
01:57:17,400 --> 01:57:20,040
Speaker 1: that sense, and that has fueled so right. Social media

2026
01:57:20,880 --> 01:57:24,560
Speaker 1: really has proved to be an accelerant for victimhood and grievances,

2027
01:57:25,400 --> 01:57:27,520
Speaker 1: and I think because of that it has allowed the

2028
01:57:28,760 --> 01:57:33,520
Speaker 1: right to essentially control the narrative right. And that's essentially

2029
01:57:33,560 --> 01:57:38,840
Speaker 1: what you're saying. Chris Hayes, an MSNBC host. He's written

2030
01:57:39,040 --> 01:57:42,040
Speaker 1: he's written a pretty good interesting i'p ed today in

2031
01:57:42,120 --> 01:57:44,040
Speaker 1: The Times that I would tell you to check it out.

2032
01:57:44,360 --> 01:57:46,120
Speaker 1: And he's wrote a book about this issue of the

2033
01:57:46,160 --> 01:57:52,800
Speaker 1: attention economy and his essentially his answer to this question

2034
01:57:52,960 --> 01:57:56,880
Speaker 1: is Democrats have to essentially do what they can to

2035
01:57:57,040 --> 01:58:00,280
Speaker 1: dominate the attention economy, even if it's on issue hues

2036
01:58:00,360 --> 01:58:03,280
Speaker 1: that have nothing to do with politics. That Donald Trump

2037
01:58:04,880 --> 01:58:07,120
Speaker 1: essentially and it goes back to sort of a philosophy

2038
01:58:07,640 --> 01:58:11,839
Speaker 1: he would sort of adopt somebody else's grievance on anything,

2039
01:58:11,880 --> 01:58:15,120
Speaker 1: almost like that's sort of where this Maha movement, how

2040
01:58:15,200 --> 01:58:17,280
Speaker 1: did it end up in the Mega movement. These are

2041
01:58:17,320 --> 01:58:19,520
Speaker 1: folks who are pretty liberal on a lot of issues,

2042
01:58:20,800 --> 01:58:25,840
Speaker 1: but they have sort of they have some antiquated views

2043
01:58:25,880 --> 01:58:31,240
Speaker 1: of science, and they found their grievance partner in Donald Trump, right.

2044
01:58:31,400 --> 01:58:37,360
Speaker 1: And so you know, I wonder if it's attitudinal right

2045
01:58:37,480 --> 01:58:42,160
Speaker 1: that if the left wants to But I just you know,

2046
01:58:42,880 --> 01:58:45,720
Speaker 1: I go back to something my mother said, why she's

2047
01:58:45,760 --> 01:58:48,920
Speaker 1: a Democrat because she doesn't want to agree with everything

2048
01:58:49,000 --> 01:58:53,800
Speaker 1: someone says. She views the Democratic Party is more diverse

2049
01:58:54,040 --> 01:58:58,760
Speaker 1: on disagreeing with each other, more open to being although

2050
01:58:58,800 --> 01:59:01,000
Speaker 1: I think that's less and less. I think there was

2051
01:59:01,040 --> 01:59:04,080
Speaker 1: a time the Democratic Party was the bigger tent, and

2052
01:59:04,360 --> 01:59:07,240
Speaker 1: now the Republican Party has become the bigger tent, or

2053
01:59:07,320 --> 01:59:10,480
Speaker 1: the perceived bigger tent. And when you look at where

2054
01:59:10,560 --> 01:59:13,040
Speaker 1: young men are, where this Maha movement is there certainly

2055
01:59:13,040 --> 01:59:16,640
Speaker 1: are in Latino voters. There's certainly some pieces there. There

2056
01:59:16,720 --> 01:59:19,200
Speaker 1: seems to be more rules, you know, And that's where

2057
01:59:20,680 --> 01:59:24,000
Speaker 1: if you're looking for add initudinal, the left seems to

2058
01:59:24,080 --> 01:59:27,040
Speaker 1: have a bunch of rules that keep people from supporting them.

2059
01:59:27,440 --> 01:59:29,600
Speaker 1: The right has no rules. But in a weird way,

2060
01:59:30,080 --> 01:59:32,520
Speaker 1: it makes it a bit more inviting, or it feels

2061
01:59:32,560 --> 01:59:34,680
Speaker 1: as if you can you're not going to get judged

2062
01:59:34,720 --> 01:59:36,600
Speaker 1: if you decide you're going to support them on one

2063
01:59:36,640 --> 01:59:43,520
Speaker 1: issue and none of the others. So that's basically where

2064
01:59:43,560 --> 01:59:45,440
Speaker 1: I come out. I do think the point you make

2065
01:59:45,480 --> 01:59:49,800
Speaker 1: those an important one, which is, let's not forget. Yes,

2066
01:59:49,880 --> 01:59:53,840
Speaker 1: the New York Times may lean left, but overall most

2067
01:59:54,920 --> 01:59:58,120
Speaker 1: the totality of media people consume it all leans right.

2068
01:59:58,800 --> 02:00:02,240
Speaker 1: People are getting a right leaning media narrative on a

2069
02:00:02,360 --> 02:00:07,320
Speaker 1: more consistent basis than anything being driven being driven by

2070
02:00:07,320 --> 02:00:10,480
Speaker 1: the left, and that's born out by actual data. Right,

2071
02:00:10,600 --> 02:00:13,320
Speaker 1: there's this perception. You say something enough people believe it.

2072
02:00:13,680 --> 02:00:15,960
Speaker 1: Media is liberal, media is liberal. Media's liberal. Media is liberal.

2073
02:00:16,480 --> 02:00:19,480
Speaker 1: The media is much bigger than what you know. If

2074
02:00:19,520 --> 02:00:21,960
Speaker 1: you want to say Dan Rather was liberal, or you

2075
02:00:22,000 --> 02:00:23,480
Speaker 1: want to say The New York Times was liberal, or

2076
02:00:23,480 --> 02:00:26,280
Speaker 1: you want to say CNN or MEMBSBC, but it is

2077
02:00:26,440 --> 02:00:33,040
Speaker 1: not the dominant to sort of. It may have the

2078
02:00:33,360 --> 02:00:37,320
Speaker 1: more famous names that run those news organizations, but it's

2079
02:00:37,400 --> 02:00:41,360
Speaker 1: not actually the dominant content that's out there. The content

2080
02:00:41,520 --> 02:00:46,720
Speaker 1: of the internet leans right. All right, let me dig

2081
02:00:46,800 --> 02:00:52,520
Speaker 1: into my weekend from hell, the loss, the University of

2082
02:00:52,520 --> 02:00:58,160
Speaker 1: Miami's loss. Now, look as I sort of as I previewed,

2083
02:00:58,360 --> 02:01:00,960
Speaker 1: I said, this was Louisville's most important game of the year.

2084
02:01:01,280 --> 02:01:04,640
Speaker 1: It always is. This is one of those every every

2085
02:01:04,880 --> 02:01:08,640
Speaker 1: major football program has rivalries that they don't care about

2086
02:01:08,640 --> 02:01:11,240
Speaker 1: as much as the other team cares about. Right in

2087
02:01:11,320 --> 02:01:14,200
Speaker 1: the Big Ten, there's a ton of them. Right, Michigan Minnesota,

2088
02:01:14,200 --> 02:01:16,960
Speaker 1: I think they do the Brown jug game. Boyd does

2089
02:01:17,000 --> 02:01:20,640
Speaker 1: Minnesota care about that? Eh, Michigan Right Michigan Michigan State.

2090
02:01:20,800 --> 02:01:23,800
Speaker 1: Boy does Michigan State care about that game? Michigan doesn't

2091
02:01:23,800 --> 02:01:26,960
Speaker 1: want to lose it. They hate when Little Brother wins,

2092
02:01:27,920 --> 02:01:34,240
Speaker 1: but they care more about Ohio State for Miami we

2093
02:01:34,440 --> 02:01:37,840
Speaker 1: care about I care about the Florida State game, and

2094
02:01:37,920 --> 02:01:39,960
Speaker 1: I think Florida State equally cares about the Miami That's

2095
02:01:39,960 --> 02:01:41,480
Speaker 1: one of those where the rivalries it's kind of like

2096
02:01:41,520 --> 02:01:44,360
Speaker 1: Michigan Ohoa State, but Florida doesn't care about the Miami

2097
02:01:44,440 --> 02:01:48,080
Speaker 1: game as much as Miami cares about beating Florida. I

2098
02:01:48,200 --> 02:01:50,120
Speaker 1: think there was a time Miami Notre Dame was pretty

2099
02:01:50,160 --> 02:01:53,240
Speaker 1: equal and maybe that comes back if they start playing

2100
02:01:53,240 --> 02:01:55,839
Speaker 1: each other at TAD more frequently because of this acc

2101
02:01:56,080 --> 02:01:59,840
Speaker 1: rotation and because they're going to drop USC Miami Notre Dame.

2102
02:02:00,240 --> 02:02:03,480
Speaker 1: I just you know, and you know it's a there

2103
02:02:03,560 --> 02:02:06,120
Speaker 1: is it has just a little bit of everything. But

2104
02:02:06,200 --> 02:02:08,160
Speaker 1: it is one of those not name fans care about it.

2105
02:02:08,840 --> 02:02:13,040
Speaker 1: They don't like losing to Miami because of those memories,

2106
02:02:13,320 --> 02:02:15,880
Speaker 1: at least at least there. But it's still it's it's

2107
02:02:15,920 --> 02:02:18,240
Speaker 1: a point in time rivalry. So I don't know, they

2108
02:02:18,320 --> 02:02:20,880
Speaker 1: need to play more for it to come back. Now

2109
02:02:20,960 --> 02:02:22,760
Speaker 1: Louisville and Miami are going to play more. It's really

2110
02:02:22,800 --> 02:02:24,720
Speaker 1: important to Louisville to win this game, so they put

2111
02:02:24,760 --> 02:02:28,680
Speaker 1: everything into it. You know, this isn't a game where

2112
02:02:28,880 --> 02:02:32,440
Speaker 1: we can you know, there's been this assumption and frankly,

2113
02:02:32,480 --> 02:02:35,360
Speaker 1: Miami's done this for years. Even in their national title years,

2114
02:02:35,360 --> 02:02:37,880
Speaker 1: there was always a game they almost blew out of nowhere.

2115
02:02:38,400 --> 02:02:41,320
Speaker 1: I remember ed Reid saving a game against Boston College.

2116
02:02:41,680 --> 02:02:45,360
Speaker 1: In Boston College, we were playing terribly and Boston College

2117
02:02:45,360 --> 02:02:46,880
Speaker 1: is about to go in for the winning touchdown and

2118
02:02:46,960 --> 02:02:50,480
Speaker 1: he just grabs a ball. He just he we get

2119
02:02:50,520 --> 02:02:52,320
Speaker 1: a turnover and then he grabs the ball and runs

2120
02:02:52,320 --> 02:02:54,160
Speaker 1: it in for a touchdown and just puts the game away.

2121
02:02:55,200 --> 02:02:57,480
Speaker 1: But it was like Edward wasn't going to let us lose,

2122
02:02:57,520 --> 02:02:59,240
Speaker 1: But we almost blew a game that we had no

2123
02:02:59,400 --> 02:03:01,440
Speaker 1: I think we're three your four touchdown favorites in that one.

2124
02:03:02,760 --> 02:03:06,160
Speaker 1: Every year there's a game like this, there's been this reputation.

2125
02:03:06,280 --> 02:03:08,520
Speaker 1: Is Mario Christobal going to like, you know, screw up

2126
02:03:09,080 --> 02:03:11,520
Speaker 1: you know, the clock management game or something like this,

2127
02:03:11,760 --> 02:03:15,000
Speaker 1: like that infamous Georgia Tech game two years ago. There

2128
02:03:15,080 --> 02:03:17,160
Speaker 1: was none of that there. This was Carson Beck trying

2129
02:03:17,160 --> 02:03:20,600
Speaker 1: to be a hero. I saw a lot of Georgia

2130
02:03:20,640 --> 02:03:23,680
Speaker 1: fans pop up in my feed to say, hey, we

2131
02:03:23,840 --> 02:03:26,720
Speaker 1: know this version of Carson Beck. Look he did, he

2132
02:03:26,800 --> 02:03:28,720
Speaker 1: tried to be a hero, and yet we still almost

2133
02:03:28,760 --> 02:03:33,160
Speaker 1: won the game. So I'm weirdly I expected this or

2134
02:03:33,280 --> 02:03:36,080
Speaker 1: Pitt to be the game that bitness. Pitt is our

2135
02:03:36,160 --> 02:03:38,440
Speaker 1: last game of the year, and that's that pit hopefully.

2136
02:03:38,520 --> 02:03:41,080
Speaker 1: Now this means we are super focused in every game,

2137
02:03:42,760 --> 02:03:45,120
Speaker 1: and we look they scored. When you look at what

2138
02:03:45,200 --> 02:03:47,840
Speaker 1: Louisville had to do, they used every they literally created

2139
02:03:47,840 --> 02:03:51,839
Speaker 1: an entirely new first Drive game plan. They got their touchdown.

2140
02:03:52,160 --> 02:03:54,040
Speaker 1: They never ran any of those plays again because you

2141
02:03:54,080 --> 02:03:56,960
Speaker 1: only can really run them once, and they essentially they

2142
02:03:57,000 --> 02:04:01,560
Speaker 1: scored quickly fourteen points and then and then Miami won

2143
02:04:01,600 --> 02:04:05,160
Speaker 1: the rest of the game twenty one to ten. But

2144
02:04:05,240 --> 02:04:08,560
Speaker 1: I wasn't enough. Fourtun neerves are going to do that,

2145
02:04:09,600 --> 02:04:15,080
Speaker 1: pure and simple. So I'm disappointed, sadly, a little not surprised.

2146
02:04:15,080 --> 02:04:19,200
Speaker 1: I hate these Friday Island games. They suck, all right,

2147
02:04:19,560 --> 02:04:22,880
Speaker 1: they simply suck. So what does that tell us about

2148
02:04:22,880 --> 02:04:26,960
Speaker 1: college foot? Look, I I think it's still possible that everybody,

2149
02:04:27,480 --> 02:04:33,600
Speaker 1: everybody in the playoff will have one loss. That's that's

2150
02:04:33,680 --> 02:04:38,640
Speaker 1: my bold, hot take prediction. Everybody in the playoff will

2151
02:04:38,720 --> 02:04:41,680
Speaker 1: have at least one loss. Now, of course, the question

2152
02:04:41,880 --> 02:04:46,360
Speaker 1: is who beats Ohio State. Well, won't be Penn State

2153
02:04:47,000 --> 02:04:50,640
Speaker 1: in two weeks, that, I promise you. But UCLA goes

2154
02:04:50,640 --> 02:04:53,840
Speaker 1: to Ohio State, are you betting against I bet I'm

2155
02:04:53,840 --> 02:04:56,120
Speaker 1: certainly not gonna bet on UCLA winning that game, but

2156
02:04:56,200 --> 02:04:58,040
Speaker 1: I bet you that's close. They play Michigan and then

2157
02:04:58,040 --> 02:05:00,120
Speaker 1: I'll have the Big Ten title game. I think they

2158
02:05:00,160 --> 02:05:02,840
Speaker 1: have three games on their schedule that they are that

2159
02:05:02,960 --> 02:05:05,360
Speaker 1: they need to be a little bit concerned about the

2160
02:05:05,480 --> 02:05:09,040
Speaker 1: UCLA game, the Michigan game, which will be at Michigan,

2161
02:05:09,920 --> 02:05:12,440
Speaker 1: and then of course the likely title game against Indiana.

2162
02:05:14,000 --> 02:05:17,880
Speaker 1: The potential for them to have one loss is certainly there.

2163
02:05:19,040 --> 02:05:22,920
Speaker 1: How about Indiana, where would they get their one loss. Well,

2164
02:05:23,120 --> 02:05:29,160
Speaker 1: Indiana has remaining. I think we're all curious ab how

2165
02:05:29,240 --> 02:05:32,120
Speaker 1: UCLA does against You know, the UCLA is a totally

2166
02:05:32,160 --> 02:05:37,240
Speaker 1: different team now, right, they should be fine at Maryland

2167
02:05:37,240 --> 02:05:39,320
Speaker 1: and at Penn State, But aren't you kind of curious

2168
02:05:39,360 --> 02:05:41,880
Speaker 1: to see how those road games go. Indiana is different

2169
02:05:41,920 --> 02:05:44,160
Speaker 1: on the road. They almost they should have lost Iowa.

2170
02:05:44,520 --> 02:05:46,840
Speaker 1: Maybe that's the game that will be the one that

2171
02:05:46,880 --> 02:05:48,560
Speaker 1: they should have lost, and there'll be none of others.

2172
02:05:49,520 --> 02:05:51,280
Speaker 1: And don't sleep on their last game of the season

2173
02:05:51,320 --> 02:05:55,200
Speaker 1: against Purdue. It's at Purdue, right, and these in state

2174
02:05:55,320 --> 02:05:58,120
Speaker 1: rivalries throw the records out. Then of course there's a

2175
02:05:58,160 --> 02:06:01,200
Speaker 1: big ten title gamex A and M. That's the other

2176
02:06:01,240 --> 02:06:03,160
Speaker 1: big undefeated that's left. I think, what do we have

2177
02:06:03,280 --> 02:06:04,080
Speaker 1: left in the undefeated?

2178
02:06:04,200 --> 02:06:04,400
Speaker 2: That's it?

2179
02:06:04,560 --> 02:06:07,800
Speaker 1: Really. I think that's the major undefeateds that could be

2180
02:06:07,880 --> 02:06:10,760
Speaker 1: in the playoff. A and M. I think I said

2181
02:06:10,960 --> 02:06:12,520
Speaker 1: told you they would get a scare in this one.

2182
02:06:12,720 --> 02:06:15,840
Speaker 1: They have LSU next week. Although this feels like we're

2183
02:06:15,880 --> 02:06:17,440
Speaker 1: going to find out everything we need to know about

2184
02:06:17,440 --> 02:06:19,920
Speaker 1: Brian Kelly, Billy Napier was the firing so far, I

2185
02:06:20,680 --> 02:06:22,640
Speaker 1: play is LSU gonna also have an open I mean,

2186
02:06:23,040 --> 02:06:25,760
Speaker 1: my god, the level of jobs out there. I mean,

2187
02:06:26,000 --> 02:06:28,400
Speaker 1: what the hell is Virginia Tech gonna do? Right? They're

2188
02:06:28,440 --> 02:06:33,640
Speaker 1: behind Penn State, They're behind Florida, now behind UCLA. Does

2189
02:06:33,760 --> 02:06:36,560
Speaker 1: LSU change? Arkansas already has big money that they're throwing

2190
02:06:36,600 --> 02:06:40,600
Speaker 1: at their potential coaching opening. So I think next week

2191
02:06:41,160 --> 02:06:45,520
Speaker 1: LSU loses, Kelly gets fired. That's because the game's at LSU.

2192
02:06:46,560 --> 02:06:48,120
Speaker 1: We're going to find out how much this team likes

2193
02:06:48,120 --> 02:06:51,720
Speaker 1: Brian Kelly. Will they rally for him. It's a huge game,

2194
02:06:52,240 --> 02:06:55,200
Speaker 1: and m plays at Missouri, and of course they have

2195
02:06:55,280 --> 02:06:57,240
Speaker 1: the big game against Texas at the end of the season,

2196
02:06:57,400 --> 02:07:01,280
Speaker 1: so there's certainly plenty of ways that they that they

2197
02:07:01,320 --> 02:07:04,400
Speaker 1: are likely to go down. So the likelihood that everybody

2198
02:07:05,000 --> 02:07:08,640
Speaker 1: has one loss, right, b YU still undefeated. I doubt

2199
02:07:08,720 --> 02:07:11,920
Speaker 1: they finish their season undefeated. It's just unlikely that's going

2200
02:07:11,960 --> 02:07:14,800
Speaker 1: to happen. Georgia Tech's undefeated, that's another one. They got

2201
02:07:14,840 --> 02:07:17,160
Speaker 1: Georgia left on their schedule, and they're going to face

2202
02:07:17,280 --> 02:07:19,280
Speaker 1: a Miami or a Louisville or somebody like that in

2203
02:07:19,360 --> 02:07:24,880
Speaker 1: the ACC title game. So just consider that. Maybe I'm

2204
02:07:24,920 --> 02:07:26,920
Speaker 1: just saying that I make myself feel better about Miami.

2205
02:07:27,200 --> 02:07:29,400
Speaker 1: There's a tiny bit of that in me. I'm not

2206
02:07:29,480 --> 02:07:32,960
Speaker 1: gonna lie. But it's also the way this college football

2207
02:07:32,960 --> 02:07:36,160
Speaker 1: season's going. I think if you could find a bet

2208
02:07:36,280 --> 02:07:39,120
Speaker 1: out there that say there'll be no undefeated team in

2209
02:07:39,160 --> 02:07:44,120
Speaker 1: the playoff. I have no idea whether Fandel, DraftKings, bet MGM,

2210
02:07:44,280 --> 02:07:47,360
Speaker 1: whoever wants to sponsor my little segment here. They're welcome

2211
02:07:47,400 --> 02:07:49,320
Speaker 1: to sponsor it, so we'll only pick one of you,

2212
02:07:50,560 --> 02:07:52,880
Speaker 1: But that would be a fun bet to lay that

2213
02:07:53,280 --> 02:07:58,480
Speaker 1: no undefeated team will be invited to the playoff. Mark

2214
02:07:58,520 --> 02:08:02,360
Speaker 1: it down. That's my prediction, all right. With that, I

2215
02:08:02,440 --> 02:08:05,560
Speaker 1: will see in forty eight hours. Thanks for investing some

2216
02:08:05,720 --> 02:08:08,880
Speaker 1: time in this show. Appreciate your support, Appreciate your listenership.

2217
02:08:09,440 --> 02:08:13,800
Speaker 1: Thank you for all those likes. Tell your friends more subscriptions.

2218
02:08:13,840 --> 02:08:15,920
Speaker 1: We appreciate it. See in forty eight hours.