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Speaker 1: What girls in the forest, our imagination and our family bonds.

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Speaker 1: The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest

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Speaker 1: near you and discover the fourth dot Org brought to

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Speaker 1: you by the United States Fourth Service and the AD Council.

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Speaker 1: Executive producer Paris Hilton brings back the hit podcast How

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Speaker 1: Men Think. And that's good news for anyone that is

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Speaker 1: confused by men, which is basically everyone. It's real talk,

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Speaker 1: straight from the source. How Men Think podcast is exactly

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Speaker 1: what we need to figure them out. It's going to

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Speaker 1: be fun and formative and probably a bit scary at

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Speaker 1: times because we're literally going inside the minds of men.

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Speaker 1: Listen to How Men Think on the I Heart Radio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Outer Space

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Speaker 1: a vast unknown frontier. We don't yet know the dangers

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Speaker 1: that lurk beyond the stars, but unfortunately for Captain Sidney

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Speaker 1: Owens and Jenna Prescott, they're about to find out. Magmaal

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Speaker 1: from I Heart Radio and BAM for Productions. Listen to

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Speaker 1: Magmaal on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or

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Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcast Welcome to Behind the Police,

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Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. Hello everyone, I'm Robert Evans,

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Speaker 1: host of Behind the Bastards, which is normally a show

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Speaker 1: about the worst people in all of history, and I

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Speaker 1: guess it's still is. But but recent world events, UM

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Speaker 1: have compelled us to create a special mini series, Behind

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Speaker 1: the Police, where we are going to be giving a

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Speaker 1: detailed history of American policing, all the good, the bad,

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Speaker 1: and mostly mostly the bad and the ugly. It's it's

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Speaker 1: mostly bad, uh and and mostly ugly. UM and UH.

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Speaker 1: In order to help me give this story and tell

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Speaker 1: it to the world, my guest today and for the

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Speaker 1: next couple of weeks UH is Jason Petty, better known

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Speaker 1: as Propaganda Jason. You are a hip hop artist, UM

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Speaker 1: and a podcast host UM. And yeah, how are you doing? Man?

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Speaker 1: Hey man? You know West West and the world don't fire.

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Speaker 1: But NASCAR stopped flying Confederate flags. So that's a thing,

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. Yeah, it's in a weird

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Speaker 1: moment right now. I just like like snag a picture

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Speaker 1: of and just and like send it to yourself in

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Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen and go what stupid director wrote this storyline?

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Speaker 1: You know, it's it's wild, and like the wildest thing

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Speaker 1: about it is that I think we were all at

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Speaker 1: this point of getting like just completely exhausted by like

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Speaker 1: this constant parade of like bad news and like political

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Speaker 1: malfeasance and like horrible things being done by people in power,

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Speaker 1: and nobody was able to get on the same page

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Speaker 1: about really anything. Um. And then all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: you know, um, after the Minneapolis police murdered George Floyd

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Speaker 1: in that video came out for like the first time

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Speaker 1: in a long time, almost everyone, like most people got

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Speaker 1: broadly onto the same page. Like, I mean, we weren't

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Speaker 1: even on the same page about a virus. Like it's

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Speaker 1: like some some that I'll give no ships about what

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Speaker 1: political stance you are gonna kill you either way. We

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Speaker 1: couldn't even agree on net Yeah, but then I was

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Speaker 1: like we could agree that black lives matter for real.

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Speaker 1: That's what we finally agree it on. Yeah, it's good,

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Speaker 1: broadly good. Like I'm kind of I'm recording this from

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Speaker 1: outside of the what will surely probably not exist by

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Speaker 1: the time this airs, but was briefly the the the

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Speaker 1: Seattle the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone. I went to check

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Speaker 1: that out for a couple of days. Yes, it's been wild.

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Speaker 1: I wish you could talk to me a little more

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Speaker 1: about like there's got to be some sort of version

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Speaker 1: of behind the bastards that's that is the Northwest. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like it's definitely a tale of two cities up there. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've been getting tear gassed in Portland for days, and

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Speaker 1: they were in Seattle too, but then they succeeded in

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Speaker 1: getting their police to like pull out of a precinct um,

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Speaker 1: which is wild and now the cops are back, so

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Speaker 1: it didn't last. But like, yeah, and you've been on

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Speaker 1: the ground in Los Angeles tending some of the protests,

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Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, Yeah, how have you felt about that? Dude?

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Speaker 1: It's like obviously the sheer volume I mean because I

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Speaker 1: was here for the you know, for the l A riots,

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. So the sheer volume of people,

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Speaker 1: the amount of of um sustained energy has been like

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Speaker 1: maybe something's different, you know what I'm saying. Um, the

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Speaker 1: amount of diversity in the streets has been like yo,

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Speaker 1: maybe I guess after having to like take it to

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Speaker 1: the streets since the day after Trump was a did

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying? From the woman's marts all

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Speaker 1: the way to the school shootings, to the to the climate,

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Speaker 1: to the like there's no to the the damn um

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Speaker 1: uh Muslim band. It's just like at some point we

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Speaker 1: were just like, Okay, enough is a damn enough um.

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Speaker 1: But I like to be fully transparent. I think I

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Speaker 1: echo like the sounds of of of people who've been

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Speaker 1: in like justice work for a while, where like your

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Speaker 1: arms are still kind of folded on the side, like Okay,

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Speaker 1: are you gonna be here next week? Yeah? You know

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying. It's like you like this song, or

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Speaker 1: you're gonna stay for the concert, like this a long concert,

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Speaker 1: you feel me? Yeah? Yeah, it's a long And I

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Speaker 1: guess that's kind of why we're doing you know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: after like two weeks almost in the streets reporting on that,

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Speaker 1: I kind of felt like the thing to do was

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Speaker 1: to try to um because I guess it's I think

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Speaker 1: it's wrong to say that we're all on the same page.

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Speaker 1: We're all reading the same book, and the book is titled, uh,

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Speaker 1: the police are murdering a whole ton of black people,

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Speaker 1: um and also doing a bunch of other messed up stuff.

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Speaker 1: And it feels like for a lot of folks the

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Speaker 1: first time they opened that book was because they they

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Speaker 1: went out to a protest and they got tear guests

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Speaker 1: and some we were like confronted by the violence of

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Speaker 1: American policing. Um, So I think now is a good

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Speaker 1: time to go into a really deep history of American

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Speaker 1: policing and let people know like where all this came from,

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Speaker 1: because this didn't Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's so there's I

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Speaker 1: and I and I know what I love about your show.

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Speaker 1: It is I think why it reigned so true with me.

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Speaker 1: It was like it's this stuff that like we we

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Speaker 1: might be looking at the same dumpster fire, but I'm

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Speaker 1: looking at it with a hundred years of history to

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Speaker 1: know like I actually know what I'm looking at, you

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Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. And like y'all think I'm making

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Speaker 1: this ship up, Like I'm not, Like I swear to you,

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Speaker 1: I'm not making this up. Like just learn more and

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Speaker 1: you'll stare at this dumpter fire like I am. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so let's stare at the dumpster fire. Um and and

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Speaker 1: and really just yeah, I'll get into the story. Um.

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Speaker 1: As a side note, your camera is phenomenal, Like what's

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Speaker 1: up with this depth of feel on your That's great, man,

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Speaker 1: it's like blurry in the back, like look at this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, that's so people don't see all of my

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Speaker 1: all of my illegal artwork that's behind me. Yeah yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: very erotic. Yeah you see my bed here and by

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Speaker 1: magic I mean snoring and my daughter kicking me and

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Speaker 1: my wife in our roofs. Anyway, yeah yeah yeah, so,

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Speaker 1: um yeah, I guess let's get into it. So obviously,

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Speaker 1: the idea of law of their being laws that people

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Speaker 1: could break and be punished, that's existed for a while.

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Speaker 1: We all remember hearing about hammer Abi's code and stuff

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Speaker 1: like back in back in school. Um, but throughout history,

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Speaker 1: a surprising amount of society is probably most of them

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Speaker 1: have lacked anything that we would recognize as like a

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Speaker 1: police force and like an organized and kind of a

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Speaker 1: modern sense of the word. Like a lot of times

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Speaker 1: you'd have like the you know, you'd have a military

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Speaker 1: that would enforce some rules for like the king or whoever,

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Speaker 1: but you didn't have like beat cops rolling around, you know,

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Speaker 1: scanning neighborhoods. Now, the ancient Egyptians had something that might

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Speaker 1: be seen as kind of a predecessor to the police.

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Speaker 1: It was a small, dedicated force regarding the tombs of

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Speaker 1: the wealthy as well as their businesses. Um, which will

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Speaker 1: be something of a pattern throughout the episode. Convinced everything.

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Speaker 1: Let's just gonna that's the pattern anyway going, including policing

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Speaker 1: for the police. Well you can't, they can't. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's not all writing. Yes, um. So, some ancient Greek

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Speaker 1: city states, including Athens, had what you might call a

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Speaker 1: proto police force um as well. And in Athens this

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Speaker 1: force was kind of geared towards protecting markets and keeping

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Speaker 1: an eye on untrustworthy foreigners. So it's a little bit like,

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Speaker 1: you know, a mix between normal police and ice. Um. Now,

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Speaker 1: this was not considered to be an honorable job, as

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Speaker 1: historian P. K. Bailey noted in the ninety lecture quote,

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Speaker 1: even in the enlightened democracy of Athens in the fifth

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Speaker 1: century BC, no free citizen was prepared to serve in

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Speaker 1: that capacity, and such police force as there was, consisted

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Speaker 1: of foreigners with the status of slaves who were the

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Speaker 1: property of the states in Greece. Generally, very few of

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Speaker 1: the states seem to have made any provision at all

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Speaker 1: so far as is known for the ordinary policing of

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Speaker 1: their cities, though the state of Sparta certainly had a

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Speaker 1: very efficient system of secret police. This is really interesting

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Speaker 1: to me, especially because of what comes next. So Sparta

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Speaker 1: really seems to be like some of the first police

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Speaker 1: that are very similar. You can draw a direct line

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Speaker 1: from the Spartan secret police to the origins of American policing,

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Speaker 1: which we're gonna we're gonna get to it a little bit,

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Speaker 1: because the secret police of Sparta existed for one purpose

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Speaker 1: and one purpose only, and it was to clamp down

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Speaker 1: on any hint of rebellion from the vast majority of

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Speaker 1: the nation's populace see only about one in seven. And

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Speaker 1: Spartans were like the guys from three hundred, right that

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Speaker 1: everybody knows, like with the with the abs and the

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Speaker 1: and the spears. The vast majority of the population were helots.

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Speaker 1: They were slaves, basically they were they were slaves. They

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Speaker 1: were just straight up slaves. Like it was a slave

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Speaker 1: empire Sparta was. The vast majority of people in the

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Speaker 1: country were slaves, and the Spartan like leadership and the

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Speaker 1: Spartan like citizens spent all of their time terrified of

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Speaker 1: slave rebellions. That's why the Spartan army didn't actually leave

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Speaker 1: the country all that often because like they'd get up risen. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So they had all these slaves and they had to

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Speaker 1: like clamp down on them, and they established a secret

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Speaker 1: policing force called the Crypteia, which was made up of

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Speaker 1: young men who had just finished the basics of their

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Speaker 1: military terry training. So once a year, Sparta would elect

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Speaker 1: a council of five e force or leaders, and as

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Speaker 1: part of a ritual, these forms would begin their term

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Speaker 1: by declaring war on the Helot population. They did this

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Speaker 1: every year, like every year we declare war on our slaves.

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Speaker 1: So the Spartans had crips, is what you're telling me.

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Speaker 1: They did? They did, Yeah, god crypta yeah, the crypt

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Speaker 1: So they had crypt So that's sto. Was the boys

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Speaker 1: in Blue. I'm telling you, man, Like this stuff has

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Speaker 1: been going on for a long time, the Otter boys

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Speaker 1: in Blue. And it was trying to keep the slaves.

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Speaker 1: They was trying to keep the slaves from rebelling. Everybody

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Speaker 1: tucked that back in. Tuck that away for a second.

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Speaker 1: Keep that in your head, Keep that in your head.

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Speaker 1: So every year these elected leaders, you know, formally declare

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Speaker 1: war on the Helots and it's something of like a

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Speaker 1: ritual like to, and this ritual is based around like

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Speaker 1: keeping them from rebelling. So the Cryptana would be sent

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Speaker 1: out to wander barefoot, armed with knives into the countryside,

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Speaker 1: and they would seek out the strongest and the smartest

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Speaker 1: of the Helots their slaves, and they would murder them

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Speaker 1: in the night, collect the population of any potential leaders.

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Speaker 1: That like, every year we go out, we find the

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Speaker 1: smart ones, and we kill them so that they can't

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Speaker 1: rise up against us. How does he fishing? Y'all telling

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Speaker 1: me this is the pinnacle Western civilization, that's all we're

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Speaker 1: trying to be, Okay, got it? It does make it

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Speaker 1: kind of appropriate when you could a lot of American

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Speaker 1: police officers were like spartan helmet patches. Now it's like, okay,

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Speaker 1: a little on the nose. Yeah. Now, I should note

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Speaker 1: here that there's actually there is quite a lot of

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Speaker 1: historical debate about the Cryptia. Some scholars agree with defining

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Speaker 1: them as a secret police, as a force to keep

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Speaker 1: the Helots in line through regular murder. Victor Davis Hansen,

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Speaker 1: who's a pretty prominent like pop historian, compares them to

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Speaker 1: the Gestapo, but other historians will argue that the Cryptia

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Speaker 1: were less of like a policing force and more of

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Speaker 1: a guerrilla military unit and auxiliary to the regular Spartan

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Speaker 1: military that's sort of um also acted as kind of

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Speaker 1: an advanced training program designed to blood new warriors by

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Speaker 1: like giving them easy kills to help them get over

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Speaker 1: any hesitation they might have to do violence. And I

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Speaker 1: don't think these two views are necessarily in conflict. The

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Speaker 1: Kryptaia seemed to have been like a dedicated guerilla armyment

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Speaker 1: to suppress descent against the ruling class by doing violence

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Speaker 1: to the impoverished majority who produced all of Sparta's value.

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Speaker 1: In this they fulfilled a not very different from a

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Speaker 1: lot of police forces in Western history. He can't make

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Speaker 1: this stuff up, man, because you can't. We can't make

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Speaker 1: this up. It's I made myself today. I was like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna do a longer meditation, I'm gonna do some yoga.

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Speaker 1: I am going to prepare myself for the amount of

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Speaker 1: things you've ben to tail me right now. And none

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Speaker 1: of it worked, because I still picked a fight with

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Speaker 1: my wife today. It was like, I'm sorry, babe, it's

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Speaker 1: we're about to talk about the ancient police. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but and for the record, fuck the ancient police,

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Speaker 1: like you know, ancient w a like you feel. The

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Speaker 1: Roman Republic didn't have any kind of like formal national

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Speaker 1: police force for most of its history. In Rome, which

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Speaker 1: is like the biggest city in the ancient world, for

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Speaker 1: most of the time that it was like kind of

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Speaker 1: the center of the world, lacked anything that we would

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Speaker 1: describe as like police. As Rome grew to become the

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Speaker 1: largest city and you know It's era, crime became an

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Speaker 1: increasing problem. The wealthy were able to use vast networks

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Speaker 1: of clients. Romans had this weird system whereby like if

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Speaker 1: you were rich, you gave money to a bunch of

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Speaker 1: people who had less, and they all had to like

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Speaker 1: kind of have your back. Like everybody had a posse

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Speaker 1: in ancient that's the way to look at like every Yeah,

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Speaker 1: everybody had like a big squad um. And so the

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Speaker 1: wealthy were able to use these big squads to like,

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Speaker 1: you know, defend themselves from aggression and murder their political enemies,

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Speaker 1: protect them in the streets and stuff. Um. Meanwhile, organized

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Speaker 1: criminals and gangs did basically the same thing, and there

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Speaker 1: wasn't really a big difference between like the rich and

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Speaker 1: their squads and like criminal gangs. They were kind of

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Speaker 1: the same thing. Um. Now, victims of crimes had to

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Speaker 1: either get revenged themselves or whip up a mob of

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Speaker 1: their fellow citizens to help them in this task. There

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Speaker 1: was a lot of whipping up of mobs in ancient Rome. Um, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: why don't I I could just it just makes it

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Speaker 1: just it just tracks like that just tracks so well.

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Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, we've always been the same species. Wait,

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Speaker 1: the same we are the same. But one of the

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Speaker 1: best my history professor in college, one of the best

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Speaker 1: thing he said to me was like, if you want

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Speaker 1: to know what happened in history, thing about what you

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Speaker 1: would do, it's just us, then what would you do?

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Speaker 1: It's history is us them? Yeah, And in ancient room,

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Speaker 1: like the kind of graffiti networks they had really did

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Speaker 1: act a lot like social media does to the extent

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Speaker 1: that like kind of famous and powerful people would use

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Speaker 1: like graffiti to get like shiploads like to to kind

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Speaker 1: of do the same thing that like people who get

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Speaker 1: piste off online and have a following can do like

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Speaker 1: like but with a literal mob as opposed to I'm

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Speaker 1: literally cancel you ancient style yeah, I'm gonna cancel you

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Speaker 1: by having four hundred dudes stab you repeatedly. We talk

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Speaker 1: about the government, mean it was, it was just kind

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Speaker 1: of everyone. Yeah. Uh. Seneca, a Roman philosopher in this period,

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Speaker 1: described street life in Rome this way. Some things will

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Speaker 1: be thrown at you, some will hit you, um, which

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Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, Rome's first emperor, august Us, when like

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Speaker 1: the whole republic thing ended, he established what's generally recognized

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Speaker 1: as the city's first police force. And it would be

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Speaker 1: fairer to describe them as like a fire department that

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Speaker 1: also did some policing. Um. They were called the vigils um,

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Speaker 1: and they stood watch at night and mainly kind of

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Speaker 1: looked out for fires and attempted to stop the city

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Speaker 1: from burning down because that was like a huge problem

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Speaker 1: in Rome. And the vigils were armed though, and they

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Speaker 1: were drilled in a similar way to soldiers. You know,

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Speaker 1: they used artillery to shoot dampening materials onto fires. But

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Speaker 1: they also had the right to enforce laws and had

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Speaker 1: the right to enter private homes to capture thieves, returned

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Speaker 1: runaway slaves, and generally insure order. Um. So kind of

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Speaker 1: like a fire department mixed with the police force um

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Speaker 1: and this system didn't really spread widely throughout the Roman Empire,

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Speaker 1: but broadly similar systems were established in a number of

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Speaker 1: European cities intermittently over the centuries. The night watchman was

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Speaker 1: kind of the most common way that this would this

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Speaker 1: would wind up happening. And these were just, you know,

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Speaker 1: in most of Europe, members of the community who like

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Speaker 1: would rotate through the job of defending their town or

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Speaker 1: city from external threats like invaders and internal threats like fire.

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Speaker 1: Their primary job was to give alarm to kind of

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Speaker 1: get like everybody together so that they could deal with

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Speaker 1: whatever problem, you know, happened in the night. And most

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Speaker 1: of what we today would recognize as law enforcement was

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Speaker 1: handled by citizens watching over their own communities. The English

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Speaker 1: called this kin police, as it was generally seen as

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Speaker 1: the responsibility of individual families to watch out foreign police

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Speaker 1: their family members. Right, you know, there's not nothing centralized

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Speaker 1: really in a lot of this period, you know, the

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Speaker 1: Middle Ages and ship whatever you wanna call it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so it starting to yeah, yeah, yeah, like watch your people. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: hey man, get your boy, get your boy. Whose man's

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Speaker 1: is this? You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I love it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it makes sense, Yeah, it kind of does. Yeah. Uh So,

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Speaker 1: starting in the Middle Ages, like kind of the Late

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Speaker 1: Middle Ages, English communities began to develop something called the

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Speaker 1: frank pledge system. Now, this was a structure by which

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Speaker 1: small groups of men could enforce the law in communities,

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Speaker 1: and it was based around tin man groups called tithings,

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Speaker 1: which were themselves grouped into hundreds and then shires, which

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Speaker 1: were similar to modern counties. So if you wondering where

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Speaker 1: like the lord of the rings, why they called the

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Speaker 1: shire that was like an old English word for a county. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Now the person who was in charge, yeah, yeah, that's so,

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Speaker 1: the person who was in charge of all of the

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Speaker 1: different tithings, those tin man groups in a shire was

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Speaker 1: called the shire reeve. And that's where the word sheriff

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Speaker 1: comes from. Is like the head of this like shire

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Speaker 1: wild kind of community protection group, the shire reef, the

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Speaker 1: shaff And that's why the sheriff's run the county exactly exactly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so that's where that comes back to. So yeah, it

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Speaker 1: makes sense. Yeah, and so far we're like this isn't

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Speaker 1: something you can really like obviously, like the Spartan police

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Speaker 1: is terrible, but like this makes sense, Like, yeah, you

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Speaker 1: take care of your community, like everybody kind of run,

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Speaker 1: rotates through it, share, Yeah, hard to be angry at it.

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Speaker 1: Individuals within tithings were expected to apprehend criminals and bring

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Speaker 1: them to court, and shire Reeves oversaw their work. When

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Speaker 1: Europeans began, you know, genociding and conquering North America, they

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Speaker 1: brought variants of this system and other kind of similar

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Speaker 1: systems developed in other parts of Europe with them. Policing

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Speaker 1: in you know, the colonies which you know, we're broadly

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Speaker 1: referring to like mainly North America here, Like I'm not

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Speaker 1: really I don't have the time to like talk about

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Speaker 1: like what went on in South America, Central America. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about like kind of the particularly the English speaking

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Speaker 1: colonies that started on the East Coast. Um Policing in

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Speaker 1: those colonies fell into two broad categories, known to historians

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Speaker 1: as the Watch and the big stick. And I'm going

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Speaker 1: to quote next from a paper on the history of

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Speaker 1: US policing by Dr Gary Potter of Eastern Kentucky University. Quote.

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Speaker 1: The Watch system was composed of community volunteers whose primary

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Speaker 1: duty was to warn of impending danger. Boston created a

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Speaker 1: night Watch in sixteen thirty six New York and sixteen

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Speaker 1: fifty eight in Philadelphia, and sev undred. The night Watch

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Speaker 1: was not a particularly effective crime control device. Watchman often

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Speaker 1: slept or drank on duty. Well, the watch was theoretically voluntary,

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Speaker 1: many volunteers were simply attempting to evade military service, were conscripts,

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Speaker 1: forced into service by their talent, were performing watch duties

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Speaker 1: as a form of punishment. And I have to say again,

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Speaker 1: last night, I was kind of hanging out in the

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Speaker 1: Autonomous Zone and I volunteered to do a shift on

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Speaker 1: the night Watch, and I was definitely drinking. You know.

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Speaker 1: We we look in in the hood, you know again,

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Speaker 1: like the part we built it's called apology. And one

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Speaker 1: of the things is like I just feel like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: no matter how unique our experiences, like you said, we're

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Speaker 1: kind of we're still all the same species. Right. So

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Speaker 1: when we talk about like, um neighborhood pigeons, right, I mean,

385
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:59,440
Speaker 1: there's there's there's a there's a misogynistic version of that.

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Speaker 1: And then they the other part that we would call

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Speaker 1: the pigeon stool, which is like the guy who's supposed

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Speaker 1: to sit at the edge of the street to make

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Speaker 1: sure to see if the cops are coming. Right. So

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Speaker 1: that's your pigeon stool, right, and he's drunk all the time.

391
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Speaker 1: He's drunk, like he falling asleep, and it's just so.

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Speaker 1: And the hope is to do that because it's the

393
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:26,239
Speaker 1: easiest because it's odds are nobody coming, you know, So

394
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,240
Speaker 1: you could just sit over there and just kind of

395
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 1: like he's trying to holler at girls like, you know,

396
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:35,879
Speaker 1: it's just just on the one off chance that the

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Speaker 1: police actually come around. I mean, that's your life. But

398
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:45,240
Speaker 1: most of the time that's not gonna happen. Yeah, just

399
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:49,800
Speaker 1: sit there and drinking, smoking, Yeah, keep an eye on things,

400
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:51,880
Speaker 1: but not all that. Make sure everybody. Just make sure

401
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 1: mama not coming, you know. So these kind of watch

402
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,120
Speaker 1: systems that started, you know, hitting you know, the colonized

403
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,200
Speaker 1: Northeast were more similar to the pseudo police system that

404
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,199
Speaker 1: you saw in ancient Athens than anything else. Um, and

405
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 1: you know, kind of the the other side of this

406
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,080
Speaker 1: was the big stick system. And this was the first

407
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Speaker 1: real example of for profit policing. We're not gonna go

408
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Speaker 1: into tremendous detail about it in this episode. We're going

409
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Speaker 1: to talk about it a lot more in our next episode,

410
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Speaker 1: but I'm gonna give an overview here. So in a

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Speaker 1: you know, we're when we're talking about the colonies, we're

412
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Speaker 1: talking about a very unregulated market for law enforcement in

413
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Speaker 1: a lot of ways. You know, there's not an organized,

414
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 1: centralized police, but there are merchants who have a lot

415
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Speaker 1: of property, and those merchants want to make sure their

416
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Speaker 1: property doesn't get stolen um, either when it's in transit

417
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Speaker 1: or when it's in a shop. And so you know,

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Speaker 1: they have they have constables in these towns, and constables

419
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Speaker 1: are either appointed, um kind of in like a rotating basis,

420
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Speaker 1: so like you do your your brief period of time

421
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Speaker 1: as constable, or you're elected to be constable. It was

422
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 1: kind of they did it a couple of different ways. Um.

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Speaker 1: And as a general rule, because constables weren't really paid, um, like,

424
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Speaker 1: they had to develop services that they would sort of

425
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Speaker 1: sell to be ble in order to make the job worthwhile.

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Speaker 1: So sometimes they acted acted as land surveyors. They would

427
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,880
Speaker 1: verify the accuracy of scales, but they would also get

428
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 1: paid directly by the merchants they were protecting. And so

429
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 1: as a general rule, these constables were really just hired

430
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,119
Speaker 1: muscle for the business leaders in these communities. Um, and

431
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,919
Speaker 1: they would be paid by the people. Um. You know,

432
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,679
Speaker 1: they weren't being paid by the state to enforce justice.

433
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 1: They were being paid by people with money to enforce debts,

434
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,879
Speaker 1: to punish theft, and to even intimidate rival business owners

435
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:35,120
Speaker 1: right like that. Yeah they're good, they're hired. Yeah. Um

436
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:39,120
Speaker 1: and obviously uh as you caught by calling them hired goons.

437
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 1: This was not seen as an honorable job. People don't

438
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 1: really want to be a constable, right like, there was

439
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 1: no blue lives like back the yeah so. Historian Gary

440
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,640
Speaker 1: Potter notes that constables and night watch officers quote didn't

441
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 1: want to wear badges because these guys had bad reputations

442
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,400
Speaker 1: to begin with, and they didn't want to be identified

443
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 1: as people that other people didn't like. There was a

444
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 1: strong resistance with early law enforcement of being identified as

445
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 1: law enforcement because nobody liked you. Now, some towns in

446
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 1: colonial North America made service in the watch compulsory. Rich

447
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 1: people tended to pay poor people to take their shifts

448
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 1: for them, and Potter notes that these substitutes were usually

449
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: quote a criminal or a community thug. Yeah. Yeah again,

450
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:32,639
Speaker 1: it all tracks yeah, that's yeah. Yeah. In eighteen twenty nine,

451
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 1: back over in England, Sir Robert Peel, who was the

452
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 1: Home Secretary of England, introduced the Bill for Improving the

453
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 1: Police in and in and Near the Metropolis. Now. The

454
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 1: goal of this was to take the air set system

455
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,199
Speaker 1: of watchmen and the like and formalize them into a

456
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: real police force. And the London Metropolitan Police are generally

457
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 1: recognized to be the very first modern police department in history.

458
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 1: Um And Peel he's an interesting guy. He felt that

459
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 1: the job of police should be to prevent crime rather

460
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:00,440
Speaker 1: than to punish it, because that's kind of what you know,

461
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: all these constables something got stolen, you like you'd get

462
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:05,679
Speaker 1: paid to go like funk up the person who stole it, right,

463
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 1: But like they weren't really preventing crimes. So Peele was like,

464
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 1: what if we tried to stop crimes? Um, And he

465
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 1: felt the best way to achieve that goal was with

466
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: regular visible patrols of officers from a formal centralized apartment

467
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 1: with uniforms and ranks and a clear physical headquarters so

468
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: that people like new those aren't just dudes, like those

469
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: are the police and they're like a part of the

470
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,879
Speaker 1: state now. Peel felt that it was critical that only calm,

471
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,879
Speaker 1: even tempered citizens should be police officers. He felt again,

472
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 1: yeah what I thought thought, Yeah, yeah, that one didn't

473
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 1: really spread. Um. I don't know much about the London police,

474
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 1: but it didn't make it across the pond. It's just

475
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 1: there's there's a few things that they threw out the

476
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 1: baby with the bathwater in this situation. I get you

477
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 1: didn't want to have a you don't want to have

478
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,159
Speaker 1: a king anymore, you know, you know, like the t

479
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: I get it, but like maybe having a calm police

480
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 1: voice wasn't a bad idea. Took part of the magna carta.

481
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:00,679
Speaker 1: He was like, yo, it is that this kind of

482
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: seems like a good idea. Maybe YE should have taken

483
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 1: that one too. Yeah, And I did recently watch like again,

484
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 1: the London police have done a lot of messed up

485
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 1: stuff too, even with some of the recent protests. But

486
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 1: I did watch that when they threw the statue of

487
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 1: that slaveholder into the bay in Bristol, um into the channel. Um,

488
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 1: I watched an interview with like the local constable or whatever.

489
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: He was, like the local police chief type guy in Bristol,

490
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 1: because he was being asked by the news like why

491
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 1: he didn't stop it, and his answer was basically like, well,

492
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 1: you know, I'm a cop, so obviously I'm not okay

493
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,679
Speaker 1: with property destruction. But we had a choice to, like, like,

494
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:34,719
Speaker 1: our choice was to either let it happen or like

495
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,439
Speaker 1: basically funk up people to protect the statue. And I

496
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 1: felt like that would be bad for community trusting the police.

497
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: Pretty reasonable attitude, taking on your feet, man, like you

498
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 1: feel me, like yeah, and he's like, what do I

499
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 1: care about the statue? You know? So um yeah. Peel

500
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:54,719
Speaker 1: had some other ideas too. Again, he felt that like

501
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: police needed uniforms with badges that had visible display numbers.

502
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,200
Speaker 1: So he was the idea like police should have matge

503
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 1: numbers that you can identify. If you're encounter a police officer,

504
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 1: you can identify them. He also felt that police should

505
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: not carry firearms, and again that's like still kind of

506
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: broadly applied and a lot of you know, English policing. Now,

507
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,160
Speaker 1: some of Peel's ideas quickly spread. Obviously not the thing. Well,

508
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 1: we'll talk about that again. Apart two, American police didn't

509
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,679
Speaker 1: initially have guns um in eighteen thirty eight, though the

510
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: city of Boston became the first U s city to

511
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 1: establish a modern police force. Now, the creation of the

512
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: Boston Police, which we'll talk about a bit more in

513
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: our next episode, was driven by largely a capitalist necessity

514
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,959
Speaker 1: to protect the property of big business. Boston merchants had

515
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 1: been paying constables and the like to protect their goods

516
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 1: for years, and they pushed for the establishment of a

517
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,959
Speaker 1: formal police force in order to shift the burden of

518
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: paying for this onto the public, arguing that such a

519
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: force would be for the collective good. So now we

520
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 1: the merchants still get our stuff protected, but we don't

521
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: have to pay everywhere we you know, we pay a

522
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: little bit, but we pay a lot less because everybody

523
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: is paying for these guys to protect our stuff. Um. Yeah,

524
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: So so that's interesting. Um, now we're we'll return to

525
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,479
Speaker 1: these Northern police and again our second episode is going

526
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 1: to cover more that because you know, while the Boston

527
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 1: Police of the first modern department in history, the roots

528
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 1: of many US police departments go back much further than

529
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 1: ety eight And I think a lot of folks have heard,

530
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 1: you know, through social media or whatever. In the last

531
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: couple of weeks as we've gone through this, this uprising. UM.

532
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 1: The idea that American police started out with slave patrols. UM,

533
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 1: And that's what we're going to talk about now, And

534
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: that's partly accurate. It's not fair to say that all

535
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,159
Speaker 1: US police started as slave patrols because obviously, in the

536
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: North they didn't have you know, slave patrols, really they had, um.

537
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: You know, it was a different route in the North.

538
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: But in the American South, policing absolutely did grow out

539
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: of slave patrols. UM. And it you know, it came

540
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 1: out and you can draw a line between the two

541
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: because obviously, like the first police departments in the North

542
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 1: come out of a desire from you know, people with

543
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: money and property and shops to protect their property. And

544
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: then the American South policing also grew out of it

545
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: as ire for people with money to protect their property,

546
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: but that property was enslaved human being. Yes, yeah, yeah,

547
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 1: you know who doesn't establish slave patrols. Well, that's not man.

548
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, I think you never know, bro,

549
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: you never know, I never know, man. Yeah, you know

550
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: who historically might have tried to establish police departments to

551
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 1: protect this is I'm not doing great with this. Hey,

552
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: you know who? Uh that I got no neither. Man,

553
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, we're going to roll ads now. Just simply

554
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: go fun the police. It's an odd break, there it is,

555
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: there we go. This podcast is brought to you by

556
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,200
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557
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592
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593
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594
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599
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 1: We are back. Uh yeah, so we're we're we're getting

600
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 1: into we're talking slave patrols. Now, we're talking slave patrols. Yes,

601
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: So the first slave patrol was created in the Carolina

602
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 1: colonies in seventeen o four and twenty six, years before

603
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: Boston got its police force. And this is again we're

604
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 1: not we're not even North or South Carolina yet. They

605
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: hadn't gotten that far. But they knew they wanted Carolinas. Yeah,

606
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 1: we were clear on that, and they were clear that

607
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: they wanted slave patrols in those Carolinas. And yeah, sorry dude,

608
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: sorry man, Yeah sorry. I was first I was gonna

609
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: go o Carolina, but I was like, that's probably not

610
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 1: gonna land as well this week. Carolina, Sweet Carolina. Yeah,

611
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: I think you read the room right. Yeah, so slave

612
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 1: patrols had three jobs. To chase down, apprehend, and return

613
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: escaped slaves to their owners, and to discipline slave labors

614
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 1: via violence if they broke plantation rules, and to act

615
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: as an organized and constant form of state endorsed terror

616
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: in order to stop American slaves from revolting. Now, white

617
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: Southerners lived in pretty much constant fear of slave uprisings

618
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: the Haitian Revolution which started in sev and again it

619
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: is very complicated the Revolutions podcast. But I think Mike

620
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: Duncan is his name, is a great job of breaking

621
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: this down. But the end result of it is that

622
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 1: black enslaved people rosed up and murdered many of their masters.

623
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 1: And they also, to make this very complicated, a lot

624
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: of their masters were also colored peoples are very complimented. Twisted,

625
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 1: it's really twisted. Supremacy just really scrambles your brain, man, Yeah,

626
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: it sure does. Beside note about Haitians, did you know

627
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: that that's where the word zombie came from. I do. Yeah,

628
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: it's Haitians and came from a zombie. Yeah, and it is. Yeah,

629
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 1: there's kind of like, I'm sorry, Sophie, it's history. I'm

630
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 1: just hoping he doesn't sing. She knows I'm going to

631
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 1: start singing the Cranberry song. Zombie. That's what that was.

632
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: Sophie got triggered. Jall was like thiss sing to me again, please, Okay.

633
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: It is kind of neat. I don't know, neat maybe

634
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 1: the wrong word, but I do think like you can.

635
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe I'm I'm wrong about this, but

636
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 1: it seems like you might be able to draw kind

637
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 1: of a line and sort of the impetus behind or

638
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,399
Speaker 1: like why kind of these like where the zombie sort

639
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 1: of myth came from an Haitian culture and it's like

640
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 1: roots to like the enslavement of of of of black

641
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 1: bodies and like kind of what the like what was

642
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 1: kind of depicted and get out like yeah, yeah it is.

643
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: There's a lot of a lot of ties to that,

644
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 1: to where you're just like you're a shell of who

645
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: you are. So they were like they look like they're working,

646
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: but they look like there's nothing, no life behind their eyes,

647
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 1: and it's like, well fooled, uh, saying of course there's

648
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 1: not like this, is there any thing more hopeless than

649
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: where I am right now? You know? Yeah? And it

650
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,399
Speaker 1: was you know what what scared white people. So much

651
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 1: about the Haitian Revolution is that it kind of proved

652
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 1: that like, oh no, that light is still in there,

653
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: Like you can you can beat them down pretty bad,

654
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: but like it never goes away, and like if we're

655
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 1: not careful, that'll happen here and they'll kill us all. Yeah,

656
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 1: and and you know, unfortunately, the Haitian Revolution remains the

657
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: only successful slavery bolt in Western history, I think maybe

658
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: the only the most definitely the most successful slave rebellion

659
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 1: anywhere in history really because like based on like the

660
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 1: yeah as as far as like Chattow slavery and like

661
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: the Transtlantic slave trade, that's the only one that worked. Yeah, yeah, um,

662
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: which is a it's I mean, it's good that it worked.

663
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: It's a bummer it didn't work elsewhere. Um. But the

664
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 1: memory of this one successful uprising was was really lodged

665
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 1: deep in the psyche of white Southerners and it scared

666
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: the ship out of them. Um. And you can you

667
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,959
Speaker 1: can hear echoes of that in the Slave patrollers Oath

668
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,879
Speaker 1: from North Carolina in eighteen twenty eight. And I'm gonna

669
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 1: I'm gonna read that now. Well wait, let me take

670
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: a deep breath for you do it? Yeah, Okay, go

671
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 1: for it. Yeah, I patroller's name, do swear that I will,

672
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: as searcher for guns, swords, and other weapons among the

673
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 1: slaves in my district, faithfully and as privately as I can,

674
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 1: discharge the trust reposed in me as the law directs,

675
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: to the best of my power. So help me God.

676
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 1: So again, what they're looking for here, they're they're they're

677
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 1: trying to stop a rebellion. Um. So searching for weaponry

678
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: is kind of like one aspect of how they did this.

679
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:33,879
Speaker 1: But really the thing they did the most was beat

680
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 1: the ever living ship out of slaves. Yeah yeah. Um. Now,

681
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 1: in most of the South, working in these slave patrols

682
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 1: was an obligation for white men, similar to compulsory military service,

683
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 1: and in most of the slave states it was kind

684
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: of broadly mixed between rich people and poor people. So

685
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,280
Speaker 1: like a lot of slave patrollers didn't actually own slaves

686
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 1: because they were poor white dudes. Um, but it was

687
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: kind of seen as a broad duty for white people

688
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: to be in the slave patrols, for men to kind

689
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,359
Speaker 1: of wrote through. Um. Now, rich people could in some

690
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: places like basically pay a fine in order to not

691
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: volunteer in the slave patrol um and it was also

692
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 1: not uncommon for like wealthy white dudes uh and who

693
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: were ironically the folks who owned the most slaves, to

694
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,320
Speaker 1: pay to have poor white men take their place. South

695
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,919
Speaker 1: Carolina was unique in allowing white women to be called

696
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 1: up for service and slave patrol. So that's what, right, Yeah,

697
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. You know, you pick your

698
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: you pick your oppression, and you're just like this is

699
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 1: the one I'm gonna fight for. You know, it's like

700
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:33,879
Speaker 1: cheering when the CIA puts a woman in charge. It's

701
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 1: like we did it. Yeah, I always say that, Like

702
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 1: I always say, you know, obviously reading the room, Like

703
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: I don't have to tell y'all this, but like just

704
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 1: the difference between white people in whiteness, you know, it's

705
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: like it's a it's a it's a thing. Whiteness is

706
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 1: that it's a thing. It's itself just it's booked and

707
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:03,399
Speaker 1: you know, cooked, and a white supremacy. And from from

708
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 1: my vantage point, it's like just how detrimental that is

709
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 1: to the psychology of white people. Also, you know what

710
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: I'm saying, like, how yeah, like you just this rich

711
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 1: dude hires this poor dude. Right, so now the poor

712
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 1: dude feel like, oh I'm a little more important now,

713
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. But like fam you, he

714
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 1: don't dead man, don't respect you. That man don't love you.

715
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: I will make you think he don't like you. Want

716
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 1: you us, you want of us, fool. You know what

717
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: I'm saying. He's throwing your chump change to do a

718
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:41,839
Speaker 1: ship job that he think he better people. Yeah, I'm

719
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 1: gonna oppress you so you can turn around and oppress

720
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 1: somebody else because the reality is I'm better than you.

721
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 1: And it's just like like it's scrambles, It just it

722
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 1: just it's turned your brain to a pretzel. Just just

723
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 1: does I'm not a not a fan. I'm gonna be

724
00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 1: on record about that taking a boat stance. Yes, And

725
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 1: I'm a fan of you two I the band and

726
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 1: the two people I'm looking at. I am a fan

727
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:12,240
Speaker 1: of y'all, all right anyway, So um so, yeah, South Carolina,

728
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 1: let let ladies be in the slave patrols. And I'm

729
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 1: not sure if they ever actually really did serve in them,

730
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:18,879
Speaker 1: because they kind of they had the option to pick

731
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:20,720
Speaker 1: a mail from their family to go in as a substitute.

732
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 1: So I do think that happened more off and there

733
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 1: may have been someone in the road with us. I

734
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 1: I can't tell you, um, but yeah, in you know,

735
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,879
Speaker 1: in some states they were kind of more of like

736
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 1: an air sat sort of force that was kind of

737
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,320
Speaker 1: cobbled together. In some states they were a professional, paid

738
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 1: institution that was like really kind of formalized. UM. In

739
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: some states their membership was cold from local militias. So

740
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: you know, they were they were different. They weren't all

741
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 1: like there weren't a uniform thing, but kind of the

742
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 1: way they worked over the decades that slavery was, you know,

743
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,800
Speaker 1: a factor in the South. Um, the way they worked

744
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:57,959
Speaker 1: kind of did become formalized. Now. Historian Sally Hayden's book

745
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: Slave Patrols is probably the most comprehensi of history yet

746
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 1: written about these the organizations, whatever you wanna call them.

747
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 1: She argues that in most cases, slave patrols consisted of

748
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 1: members of all social classes. White people were more or

749
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 1: less unified in their obligation to suppress the black population

750
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,800
Speaker 1: and thus guarantee white supremacy. One piece of evidence Hayden

751
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,359
Speaker 1: or Hadden sorry um sites to support this is an

752
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 1: eighteen forty five letter from a former South Carolina governor

753
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 1: to a visiting English abolitionist. Quote, with us, every citizen

754
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: is concerned in the maintenance of order and in promoting

755
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 1: honesty and industry among those of the lowest class who

756
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 1: are our slaves, and our habitual vigilance, re understanding armies,

757
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 1: whether if soldiers or policemen entirely unnecessary, small guards in

758
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 1: our cities and occasional patrols in the country ensure us

759
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 1: a repose and security known nowhere else. Yeah, that's how

760
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: this that's how this governor felt, or at least that's

761
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 1: what he wanted. And again he's talking to an abolitionist

762
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 1: from England here. So this is kind of the propaganda

763
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,080
Speaker 1: spend of the slave patrols. People have to have an

764
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: army or police because our only danger is from these

765
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 1: black people, right, Like that's what he's saying. Yeah, that's wow. Yeah, interesting,

766
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 1: it's a brain pretzel man, Yeah, sure is. Yeah. So again,

767
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: in all states, slave patrols did the same basic work,

768
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 1: which included enforcing the curfew that slaves lived under. Checking,

769
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: which is talking about curfews, yeah, curfew, Yeah, checking traveling

770
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:31,240
Speaker 1: slaves for permission passes, breaking up unlawful assemblies of slaves,

771
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:36,319
Speaker 1: and of course searching for weapons. Just okay, I'm gonna

772
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 1: need you to I'm gonna need you to define your

773
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 1: terms here, you know overseers, Like, what do you mean

774
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:45,399
Speaker 1: by unlawful gathering? Yeah? This ain't my house, this ain't

775
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 1: my land, I'm not even my own it would I

776
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 1: would tell me what I mean? What do you get?

777
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 1: Where do you want us to stand? Where do you

778
00:41:55,719 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 1: want us to stand so that you don't feel scared? Yeah?

779
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 1: That really is what it like comes down to, like

780
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 1: where where do we what? What can we do to

781
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 1: not scare you? Do you want to just like turn

782
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 1: off after we're done farming? Like what do you like? Yeah? Yeah,

783
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: then then if that's the case, you should have just

784
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 1: hired animals. Yeah you know what I'm saying, Like, yeah,

785
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: that's how they felt, Yes exactly, Yeah, yeah, so yeah.

786
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: Historian Sally Hayden writes in her book Slave Patrols quote

787
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:27,399
Speaker 1: the history of police work in the South grows out

788
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 1: of this early fascination by white patrollers with what African

789
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 1: American slaves were doing. Most law enforcement was, by definition,

790
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: white patrolmen watching, catching, or beating black slaves. And I

791
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 1: do find that really interesting because that's a through line

792
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 1: right up to today, this destination stopped. Yeah yeah, And

793
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 1: I like what she describes that this fascination with what

794
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 1: African Americans were doing right, Like that's what the the

795
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 1: origin of policing in the South. Have you heard of

796
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,839
Speaker 1: the Have you heard of the phrase like it's it's in,

797
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 1: It's in like feminism also, but the phrase the male gaze? Yes, yeah, yeah,

798
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 1: so like in the same same thing, and like black

799
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 1: activism spaces where it's like the white gays just like

800
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 1: what are you looking at all the damn time? Like,

801
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 1: good lord, just make something up yourself, like like just

802
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 1: can you go do something like you know, I think

803
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 1: you said in one of your one of the episodes

804
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,319
Speaker 1: because I am an actual fan listeners, I listened to

805
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: the show like that you were just like if we

806
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:29,800
Speaker 1: could just give just like white kids some cosplay, that's

807
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 1: like you're allowed to just like shoot things into an

808
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:37,800
Speaker 1: open space, and you know what I'm saying, like that

809
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 1: maybe you wouldn't just be so worried about like what

810
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 1: I'm doing right now, you know. Yeah, Like that's that's

811
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 1: I do think Warida, which is you know, our plan

812
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 1: to wall off Florida, turning into a free fire zone

813
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 1: for just as long as the war yea, as long

814
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 1: as we like cover like Miami. Yeah, we keep Mimi.

815
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 1: We can keep Mi Miami. Yeah, yeah, we have to.

816
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 1: We have to protect Orlando real quick so that I

817
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,720
Speaker 1: can watch the NBA playoffs. All right, Well we're rapidly

818
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:14,799
Speaker 1: chiseling away. This is not fun, man, Orlando's too far inland. Yeah,

819
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 1: well we'll find a war state, we you know, figure

820
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 1: it out. Maybe the Panhandle. Can we go like the

821
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 1: Texas Panhandle? Y? Nobody likes that. Nobody likes it. Turn

822
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 1: Abilene into a free fire zone. Why is Evelene a

823
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 1: city anywhere? We don't need to be a city here. Yes, yeah,

824
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: i'd apologize to the Abilene listeners, but there's no one

825
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: listening from Abilene. Or you're in Dallas now, could you

826
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 1: realize Abilene shouldn't exist. Abelene the place where you will

827
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 1: absolutely get pulled over if you drive through, just because

828
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 1: there's nothing else for the constant, nothing else to do. Abilene.

829
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,280
Speaker 1: Where as soon as you're eighteen, we'll see you later. Yeah,

830
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 1: get out of just your leaving so the violence meeted

831
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 1: out by slave patrols was neither random nor disorganized. Slave

832
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 1: patrollers had the right to detain and deterrogate and search

833
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,719
Speaker 1: slave quarters, that were allowed to seize property at will um,

834
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:10,399
Speaker 1: which was you could see as kind of an early

835
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,440
Speaker 1: form of civil asset forfeiture. They also had the right

836
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 1: to punish black people on the spot for infractions of

837
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 1: slave laws. Now, physical punishment could be dealt out via firearms,

838
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 1: but was usually dealt out by what we're called either

839
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:27,839
Speaker 1: negro whips or negro dogs. And I probably don't need

840
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 1: to explain what negro dogs were, but they they're they're

841
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 1: large bloodhounds that patrollers used both to track down slaves

842
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 1: and to horribly name them. Um. And and that is

843
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 1: the term that that historians used for these is negro dogs,

844
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 1: because that's what they were called by. Yeah. Um. So

845
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:46,800
Speaker 1: we're talking mostly about slave patrols, and there's there's a

846
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 1: lot of other areas I could get into detail, and

847
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:50,720
Speaker 1: I just don't have the time too. But I should

848
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 1: note here that slave patrols were not entirely the first

849
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 1: thing kind of like slave patrols to exist in the

850
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: United States, even before slavery was really common in the

851
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 1: United States U S settlers in New England appointed Indian

852
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 1: constables whose job was the police native Americans, often by

853
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 1: violent terror. Um And it's worth noting that the St.

854
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 1: Louis Police, who we are we'll be talking about a

855
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:16,360
Speaker 1: bit at the interior, were formed both as a slave

856
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 1: patrol and as a patrol to defend white people against

857
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 1: Native Americans. So that is a big factor in a

858
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 1: lot of this too. You know, some of these areas,

859
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 1: the native populations kind of had gotten exterminated or pushed

860
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 1: out by the time things formalized. But in a number

861
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:33,760
Speaker 1: of particularly more quote unquote frontier places, slave patrols also

862
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 1: did a lot of violence against Native Americans, and that

863
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 1: is an important aspect of this. And even in the North,

864
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 1: where slave patrols weren't a thing, there were you know,

865
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 1: groups of vigilantes, well not quite vigilantes, because they were

866
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,279
Speaker 1: sort of part of the government who whose job was

867
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 1: to like, you know, do violence to Native people. Um.

868
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 1: So that is a factor in all this as well.

869
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 1: Um So, yeah, if we want to be perfectly accurate

870
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:57,879
Speaker 1: the cases less as it's made on Twitter that US

871
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 1: police started as slave patrols and more that US police

872
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:03,840
Speaker 1: started as a series of armed groups whose central purpose

873
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:07,240
Speaker 1: was to protect white people from non white people via violence.

874
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 1: That that would be Yeah, that that's that that Yeah,

875
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:15,840
Speaker 1: that gets your your critical race theory juices going the

876
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 1: intersectionality of of oppression from the police like it ain't Look, yeah,

877
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 1: they're coming for you too. That's always been That's always

878
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:28,479
Speaker 1: been my answer. Look, you're chilling, They're coming for you too. Ip.

879
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 1: You know. So the institution of slave patrols evolved and

880
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 1: formalized over time. And for a look at how that worked,

881
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:36,840
Speaker 1: I think it'll be used for us to zoom in

882
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 1: on the case of my home state, Missouri. Now, Missouri

883
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 1: entered the Union in eighteen twenty one as a slave state,

884
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 1: and racism was obviously baked into the new policy from

885
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 1: the very beginning. In eight the new state passed a

886
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:52,320
Speaker 1: law banning any quote free negro or mulatto from coming

887
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 1: into the state under any pretext whatsoever. Um which Oregon

888
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 1: had a pretty similar but partial rule after the Civil War.

889
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 1: So like, yeah, how racist Oregon started out as um

890
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 1: is also the year that Missouri established its very first

891
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 1: slave patrols. And I'm going to quote now from a

892
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 1: paper by more House College Professor Larry Sproule quote. By

893
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:15,399
Speaker 1: eighteen forty five, these patrols had permission to administer from

894
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 1: ten to thirty lashes to slaves found strolling about from

895
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,800
Speaker 1: one plantation to another without pass from his master, mistress

896
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 1: or overseer or strolling about. Yeah, you can't go for

897
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:29,839
Speaker 1: no walk? What's wrong with you? And you could just

898
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:31,800
Speaker 1: as what you just said. It's like, oh, no, I

899
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 1: don't have a like I'm free, I don't have a master. Yeah,

900
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 1: well you ain't got no letter from your master. No, s,

901
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 1: you're not listening to me. I don't have a master.

902
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 1: You're breaking the law. Well then you don't belong in

903
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 1: this state. Yea, yep, alright, I guess. Yeah. So Missouri

904
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 1: slave patrols worked at least twelve hours a month, but

905
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 1: also you know, some people worked a lot more, and

906
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 1: members received about twenty five cents per hour. Now I

907
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,240
Speaker 1: should note here that the patrols weren't just randomly accosting

908
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:05,399
Speaker 1: individual slaves. Enslaved humans in the United States resisted their

909
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 1: situation in a variety of ways, um and so there

910
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 1: were often like, you know, minor little uprisings that slave

911
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 1: patrols were like working to put down. So slaves would

912
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 1: often take crops and livestock from from their masters. They

913
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:20,360
Speaker 1: would burn fields and even plantation houses. They would poison

914
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 1: their masters, and they would attempt uprisings. Um and so.

915
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:26,320
Speaker 1: Like the Spartan cryptia, most of the work of slave

916
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 1: patrols was broadly what we would call counterinsurgency today. In

917
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:34,279
Speaker 1: many rural counties in Missouri, um enslaved black persons where

918
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 1: the majority of people and whites were well aware that

919
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:38,439
Speaker 1: they had, you know, kind of a tiger by the tail.

920
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 1: Sprul continues quote. Southern whites developed a collective conscience and

921
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 1: political consensus to tightly control blacks within their midst. Slave

922
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 1: policing demanded accountability for every captive's whereabouts. A missing slave

923
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 1: was caused for grave concern, often causing panic. Fear of

924
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 1: insurrection made unauthorized blacks on roads or in the public

925
00:49:56,640 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 1: square hazardous. Racial features made blacks visible, suspect and vulnerable

926
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 1: to slave patrollers looking to catch up inward out of

927
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 1: his place without a pass. Just as blackness was the

928
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 1: stigmatized identification of bondsman, it also singled them out as

929
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 1: suspects and criminals. An enslaved Africans phenotype marked them as

930
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:19,759
Speaker 1: a habitual dangerous class, requiring relentless supervision and policing to

931
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:24,320
Speaker 1: guarantee their submission. Yeah, that also sounds familiar. Yeah, that

932
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:28,360
Speaker 1: sounds familiar. And we'll be talking the term dangerous class

933
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 1: is used constantly by historians who study policing in the

934
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 1: United States. That we will be talking a lot about

935
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 1: the idea of dangerous classes. Yeah, it's an important concept.

936
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 1: You don't realize, like how that like that that just

937
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 1: poisonous stain like just that that that weird DNA strand

938
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 1: just like stayed with us to the point to where

939
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:55,399
Speaker 1: you know, you're I know you're gonna get to it later.

940
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 1: But like you know, black men, black boys being treated

941
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 1: like adults when your kids because you already think we're

942
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 1: more dangerous. In your first gun I was the first

943
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:07,240
Speaker 1: time cop pulled a gun on me. I was fourteen,

944
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 1: and I was like I didn't grown on facial hair,

945
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:12,680
Speaker 1: I still had a squeaky voice. It just was terrified.

946
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:14,319
Speaker 1: He was talking to me like I was so hard

947
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 1: and criminal, and I'm like, dog, I'm a freshman. I'm

948
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:20,279
Speaker 1: a freshman in high school. Like I'm scared that I'm

949
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 1: like my Mom's gonna be pissed because I'm home late.

950
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:25,240
Speaker 1: That's what I'm scared about. My mom gonna be piste

951
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:27,279
Speaker 1: that I was supposed to be home at three five.

952
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:29,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get home at four fifteen. She gonna be like,

953
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:31,480
Speaker 1: where the hell are you? You know what I'm saying,

954
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 1: So like I'm I'm tearing and he's talking to me

955
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 1: like I know, I don't even know the words he's saying.

956
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:44,400
Speaker 1: It's because you already see us already as dangerous. Yeah yeah, yeah,

957
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 1: and yeah this is this is like how that kind

958
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:49,760
Speaker 1: of steps and evolves and how that ball gets rolling

959
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:53,239
Speaker 1: to the boulder it is today. Um yeah, So for

960
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 1: kind of another another look at how people saw the

961
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 1: slave patrols in that time, UM, I want to go

962
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:00,840
Speaker 1: to a guy named Basil Hall. He was a nineteenth

963
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 1: century English traveler and author. He visited the American South

964
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 1: in eighteen twenty nine and he wound up in Richmond, Virginia.

965
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 1: His recollection of how slave patrols were explained to him

966
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 1: gives us another insight into how white people talked about

967
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 1: this institution to other white people, which I think is compelling.

968
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:18,799
Speaker 1: Quote in walking around, my eyes were struck with the

969
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 1: unusual site of a sentinel marching with his musket, my

970
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 1: companion said, and his companion as a local American Southerner,

971
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:27,719
Speaker 1: white Southerner, obviously, it is necessary to have a small

972
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 1: guard always under arms. It is the consequence of the

973
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 1: nature of our colored population. But it has done more

974
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:35,239
Speaker 1: as a preventative check than anything else. It keeps all

975
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:37,360
Speaker 1: thoughts of insurrection out of the heads of the slaves,

976
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 1: and so gives confidence to those persons amongst us who

977
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:43,240
Speaker 1: may be timorous. But in reality there is no cause

978
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:45,719
Speaker 1: for alarm. The Blacks have become more and more sensible

979
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:48,880
Speaker 1: every day of their want of power. After further inquiry,

980
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:51,359
Speaker 1: Hall noted, I learned that there was in all these

981
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 1: places in towns a vigorous and active police, whose rule

982
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 1: is that no negro, for example, is allowed to be

983
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:59,360
Speaker 1: out of doors after sunset without a pass from his master,

984
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 1: ex ding the nature of his errand if during his

985
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 1: absence from home he'd be found wandering from the proper

986
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 1: line of his message, he is speedily taken up and

987
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 1: corrected accordingly. So that's a lot of that's interesting, like

988
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:13,640
Speaker 1: the idea that, like the police are here not just

989
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:18,279
Speaker 1: to keep keep black people in line, but so that

990
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:21,359
Speaker 1: frightened white people don't get scared of black people. That's

991
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 1: an interesting part to me. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good

992
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:30,359
Speaker 1: that yeah, that layer yeah yeah, man, yeah, yeah, it's here.

993
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:35,720
Speaker 1: We're here for Karen's too. Yeah, exactly. You can always

994
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 1: call us, you can always call the cops here. Yeah,

995
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 1: that's exactly what's going on here. So slaves patrols were

996
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:46,400
Speaker 1: generally limited to pursuing escaped slaves within their own counties.

997
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 1: When a slave or a group of slaves was fortunate

998
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:50,800
Speaker 1: enough to be able to move further away from wherever

999
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 1: they were being held, bounty hunters, like slave bounty hunters,

1000
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:56,839
Speaker 1: generally took on the job of attempting to track these

1001
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 1: slaves down. And these men were allowed across state lines

1002
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 1: and they're work was supported by the Fugitive Slave Act,

1003
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 1: which was passed in eighteen fifty is part of a

1004
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 1: compromise to try and avoid a civil war. The law

1005
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 1: mandated that all escaped slaves, if captured, be returned to

1006
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:11,719
Speaker 1: their masters, even if those slaves had escaped to a

1007
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 1: free state. Abolitionists called this the Bloodhound Bill, after the

1008
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 1: dogs that bounty hunters and slave patrollers used to track

1009
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:22,799
Speaker 1: down slaves. Solomon Northrop, author of the memoire Twelve Years

1010
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:24,799
Speaker 1: a Slave, gave one account of what it was like

1011
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 1: to watch patrollers with dogs hunt down an enslaved black person.

1012
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:31,360
Speaker 1: In this case, it was not even an escaped slave,

1013
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:34,720
Speaker 1: but merely an individual who had broken his curfew. Quote.

1014
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:37,840
Speaker 1: One slave fled before one of these companies, thinking he

1015
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 1: could reach his cabin before they could overtake him. But

1016
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:42,799
Speaker 1: one of their dogs, a great ravenous hound, gripped him

1017
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:45,360
Speaker 1: by the leg and held him fast. The patrollers whipped

1018
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 1: him severely. Yeah, I I want to be careful. I

1019
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:51,880
Speaker 1: don't want to like draw because it's it does a

1020
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:55,759
Speaker 1: disservice to like the horrific suffering of black people in

1021
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:58,880
Speaker 1: this period of time and today to to draw like

1022
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:03,919
Speaker 1: too many direct comparisons to some of the stuff happening now.

1023
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 1: But it's not. I don't think we can go without

1024
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:08,759
Speaker 1: entirely mentioning it that, like probably a lot of people

1025
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:11,480
Speaker 1: listening right now had violence done to them by police

1026
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:14,759
Speaker 1: recently for breaking curfew. Like that is interesting to me,

1027
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:16,840
Speaker 1: Like the the the o session with curfew is a

1028
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 1: through line, right, But like if you're out when you're

1029
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:22,720
Speaker 1: not allowed to. We get to funk you up, like yeah,

1030
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:24,840
Speaker 1: and it's funny, Like I was talking with you know,

1031
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 1: some of my friends, uh, my wife, even my daughter.

1032
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:31,360
Speaker 1: My daughter is old enough now to like go to protests,

1033
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:33,719
Speaker 1: go to protests with us, and you know, and kind

1034
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:35,839
Speaker 1: of like kind of do our own thing and just

1035
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:42,320
Speaker 1: us at this point being like, okay, dude, are you serious.

1036
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 1: Like at California, we just kept getting the alerts, like

1037
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:48,360
Speaker 1: four o'clock, five o'clock, six o'clock, it just kept you

1038
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:50,760
Speaker 1: kept getting Amber alerted the thing, and it's like, dude, okay,

1039
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 1: bro get it together all right and just talk to

1040
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:57,640
Speaker 1: us later. But it's kind of like we we're kind

1041
00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:00,480
Speaker 1: of like, is this a joke? Man? Like, Okay, so

1042
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 1: it's a thousand dollar fine, Okay, throw me in the pattiwagon.

1043
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:06,800
Speaker 1: Thousand dollars fine, it's fine. You know what I'm saying. Um,

1044
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 1: maybe you're gonna rough me up a little bit, but

1045
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:10,920
Speaker 1: I'm black, I'm from Los Angeles. You've been roughing me

1046
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:12,839
Speaker 1: up my whole life, you know what I'm saying. So

1047
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:16,400
Speaker 1: for us, we were kind of like, it's kind of

1048
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 1: it's kind of laughable. And then you go back to like, no,

1049
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 1: it wasn't always laughable. Yeah, you know, like this was terror. Yeah,

1050
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 1: this was absolutely terror and I think they would have

1051
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:32,840
Speaker 1: It's interesting that it is talked about slave patrols is

1052
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:36,120
Speaker 1: like a counterinsurgency, but like the way they counter the

1053
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 1: insurgency was by being terrorists terrorists. Yeah, and that's the

1054
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 1: first police departments. Yeah. So Spruit's article, which we've been

1055
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 1: quoting from, includes a number of other firsthand accounts by

1056
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 1: enslaved persons of the use of these these dogs, you know,

1057
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:56,719
Speaker 1: these bloodhounds, negro dogs. Um. Most of these accounts were

1058
00:56:56,719 --> 00:56:58,799
Speaker 1: taken down during the Great Depression. Which is one of

1059
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:00,920
Speaker 1: the coolest things they did during the New Deal is

1060
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:02,880
Speaker 1: the FDR administration send a bunch of people out to

1061
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:05,879
Speaker 1: interview former slaves who are now at that point quite old.

1062
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:07,839
Speaker 1: But that's where we get a lot of ore, a

1063
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 1: lot of our like kind of formal stories of what

1064
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:12,280
Speaker 1: it was like to be an enslaved person this period.

1065
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:15,640
Speaker 1: So thank you the New Deal for that particular was

1066
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 1: a good call. Um. So one of these people who

1067
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:21,760
Speaker 1: has interviewed noted, quote, in every district they had about

1068
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 1: twelve men they call patrollers. They write up and down

1069
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 1: and round looking for inwards without passes. When slaves run away,

1070
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 1: they always put the bloodhounds on the tracks. They had

1071
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 1: the dogs trained to keep their teeth out of you

1072
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 1: till they hold them up to bring you down. Then

1073
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:36,520
Speaker 1: the dogs would go at your throat and they'd tear

1074
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:38,600
Speaker 1: you to pieces too. After a slave was caught, he

1075
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 1: was brung home and put in chains. M yeah, so

1076
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:45,480
Speaker 1: we also have recollections of slave patrol members of their

1077
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:48,000
Speaker 1: use of dogs. One of these guys, and who was

1078
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 1: a slave patroller in Louisiana in eighteen fifty seven, described

1079
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 1: his method of work thus, Lee quote, If I can

1080
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:57,880
Speaker 1: catch a cust runaway in word without killing him, very good. Though.

1081
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:00,080
Speaker 1: I generally let the hounds punish him a little, and

1082
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:02,400
Speaker 1: sometimes give him a load of squirrel shot, which is

1083
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:05,640
Speaker 1: like a light shotgunload. If mild measures like these do

1084
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:08,440
Speaker 1: not suffice, I use harsher punishment. The moment the hounds

1085
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:11,520
Speaker 1: come close, they utter a hideous and mournful howl Heaven,

1086
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:14,040
Speaker 1: pity the poor. And then he uses the inn word again.

1087
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 1: So yeah, not a not a good dude. I hope

1088
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 1: he didn't make it out of that Civil war. Um. Yeah, Yeah,

1089
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:27,320
Speaker 1: I hope that guy got Gettysburg. Yeah, I hope he

1090
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 1: met Sherman or Grant or someone. Yeah, I'm about to

1091
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 1: get Hissburg this transition. Yeah, let's get Easburg. These ads

1092
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:44,560
Speaker 1: like pickets. I don't know, just run as I call

1093
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 1: the Union Hall as his male life and death. I

1094
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:51,320
Speaker 1: think these people are planning to kill Dr King. On

1095
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:55,320
Speaker 1: April four, Dr Martin Luther King was shot and killed

1096
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:59,200
Speaker 1: in Memphis. A petty criminal named James Earl Ray was arrested.

1097
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 1: He played aulty to the crime and spent the rest

1098
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 1: of his life in prison. Case closed right, James hil

1099
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:11,640
Speaker 1: Ray was upon for the official story. The authorities would

1100
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 1: parade all we found a gun the James L. Ray

1101
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:19,080
Speaker 1: board in Birmingham that killed Dr King. Except it wasn't

1102
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:22,040
Speaker 1: the gun that killed Dr. King. One of the problems

1103
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 1: that came out when I got the Ray case was

1104
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:29,200
Speaker 1: that some of the evidence, as far as I was concerned,

1105
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:33,360
Speaker 1: did not match the circumstances. This is the MLK tapes.

1106
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 1: The first episodes are available now. Listen on the I

1107
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1108
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 1: What's up, guys, I'm a shop bloud and I am

1109
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:46,680
Speaker 1: Troy Millions and we are the host of the Arnier

1110
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:50,320
Speaker 1: Leisure podcast, when we break down business models and examine

1111
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 1: the latest transit finance. We hold court and have exclusive

1112
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 1: interviews with some of the biggest names of business, sport,

1113
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:58,360
Speaker 1: and entertainment, from DJ Khaled to Mark Cuban, Rick Ross

1114
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 1: and Shaquil O'Neil I mean I alum. The list's expansive.

1115
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:03,720
Speaker 1: Listen in as our guests reveal their business models, hardships

1116
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:05,960
Speaker 1: and triumphs, and their respective fields. The knowledge is in

1117
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:08,920
Speaker 1: death and the questions are always delivered from your standpoint.

1118
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:10,760
Speaker 1: We want to know what you want to know. We

1119
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 1: talked to the legends of business, sports and entertainment about

1120
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:16,440
Speaker 1: how they got their start and most importantly, how they

1121
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:18,920
Speaker 1: make their money. Earni a Leisia is a college business

1122
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1123
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Speaker 1: the real estate game. Unclear is how the stock market works.

1124
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 1: We got you interested in starting a truck and company

1125
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 1: or vendor machine business. Not really sure about how taxes

1126
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:31,560
Speaker 1: or credit work. We got it all covered. The Earnie

1127
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:34,760
Speaker 1: a Leisure podcast is available now. Listen to Earnie Leisure

1128
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:37,720
Speaker 1: on the Black Effect podcast Network. I Heart radio app,

1129
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:47,760
Speaker 1: Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Eve Rodsky,

1130
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 1: author of the New York Times bestseller Affair Play and

1131
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:53,880
Speaker 1: Find Your Unicorn Space, activists on the gender division of labor,

1132
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:57,600
Speaker 1: attorney and family mediator. And I'm Dr adding a root Car,

1133
01:00:57,880 --> 01:01:01,000
Speaker 1: a Harvard physician and medical correspondence with an expertise and

1134
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:04,760
Speaker 1: the science of stress, resilience, mental health and burnout. We're

1135
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:08,080
Speaker 1: so excited to share our podcast Time Out, a production

1136
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:11,920
Speaker 1: of I Heart Podcasts and Hell of Sunshine. We're uncovering

1137
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:14,560
Speaker 1: why society makes it so hard for women to treat

1138
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:17,160
Speaker 1: their time with the value it deserves. So take this

1139
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 1: time out with us. Listen to Time Out, a fair

1140
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:24,280
Speaker 1: play podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts,

1141
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:31,960
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. So we're back, uh,

1142
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:35,760
Speaker 1: and we're talking about the use of dogs to enforce

1143
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:40,400
Speaker 1: a regime based in terrorism UM otherwise known as the

1144
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:45,400
Speaker 1: American South. That's kind of what it was, guys. Yeah.

1145
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:50,360
Speaker 1: So the horrible wounds left by these these dogs fulfilled

1146
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:52,640
Speaker 1: the dual purpose they served as a reminder of white

1147
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:55,680
Speaker 1: supremacy UM and is an easy way to identify troublesome

1148
01:01:55,680 --> 01:01:58,120
Speaker 1: slaves because obviously there's a ton of slaves with horrible

1149
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:01,520
Speaker 1: dog scars and see other black people seeing those scars.

1150
01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:04,920
Speaker 1: Both would be like white people have the power because like,

1151
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:07,120
Speaker 1: look at what they're how badly all these people got

1152
01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:09,200
Speaker 1: sucked up. And also it was a way for the

1153
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:11,800
Speaker 1: white people to see like that guy, is that guy's trouble?

1154
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 1: Like that was your arrest record? Was the dogstars on

1155
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:20,360
Speaker 1: your face? Yeah? Um, he's the red sports car. Yeah,

1156
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 1: that's what the teachers. That's what the teachers tell you. You

1157
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 1: You know, you're kind of a red sports car kid. Yeah,

1158
01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:26,360
Speaker 1: I decide what the cops is gonna look for you

1159
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:29,400
Speaker 1: because I expect you to be fast, Like yeah, thanks,

1160
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:33,280
Speaker 1: miss Williams, thank you. It's pretty obscure, deep cut like

1161
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 1: but still anyway, no nobody tells white kids stuff like that.

1162
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:40,080
Speaker 1: At least I didn't hear anything, Like you didn't hear

1163
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:42,480
Speaker 1: the red car vet or the red sports car story.

1164
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:45,240
Speaker 1: I mean I got told as a as a young adult,

1165
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:47,400
Speaker 1: I got told not to buy a red car because

1166
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 1: the police, uh cite them for speeding more often. But

1167
01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:53,439
Speaker 1: like that that was my thing. Yeah, and then well

1168
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:57,880
Speaker 1: that's there. It is. Yeah, yeah, it is weird that

1169
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:01,480
Speaker 1: we tell people in general like don't stand out, or

1170
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:03,800
Speaker 1: the yeah, I don't know, I don't want to be leaders,

1171
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:09,240
Speaker 1: don't stand out. So um. By the onset of the

1172
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:12,240
Speaker 1: Civil War, bloodhounds had grown to become the single most

1173
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:15,040
Speaker 1: reliable tool of oppression in the arsenal of Southern whites.

1174
01:03:15,080 --> 01:03:18,760
Speaker 1: Like the dogs in particular were like the way in which,

1175
01:03:19,040 --> 01:03:21,800
Speaker 1: more than any other tool white people like. I think

1176
01:03:21,840 --> 01:03:24,720
Speaker 1: even the lash was used more as like a punishment,

1177
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:27,240
Speaker 1: but like in terms of a tool of actual oppression,

1178
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:31,040
Speaker 1: like the dogs were really like the fucking thing. Um.

1179
01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:33,800
Speaker 1: And when the Civil War started, the organized and militantmen

1180
01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:36,240
Speaker 1: of the slave patrols were all too happy to turn

1181
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:39,600
Speaker 1: their counterinsurgency skills to use in a real war. One

1182
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:43,080
Speaker 1: Union field officers scouting through rebel lands in eighteen sixty

1183
01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:46,120
Speaker 1: two reported hearing the constant barking of hounds, which would

1184
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:49,200
Speaker 1: have been turned towards a new use searching for Union infiltraders.

1185
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:53,920
Speaker 1: This officer described dogs as the detective officers of slavery's police.

1186
01:03:54,520 --> 01:03:57,920
Speaker 1: Confederate generals also deployed bloodhounds on the front line. Black

1187
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:01,080
Speaker 1: Union soldiers were considered fugitives, eaves in arms and it

1188
01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:04,040
Speaker 1: was seen as only logical that these Negro dogs could

1189
01:04:04,040 --> 01:04:06,120
Speaker 1: be used to break their will and send them fleeing

1190
01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:08,160
Speaker 1: from battle. You know that these Southern generals were like,

1191
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:10,400
Speaker 1: they're so scared of these dogs. If we use them

1192
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:12,560
Speaker 1: against these new black military units, it'll make them all

1193
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:16,040
Speaker 1: run away, right Like, clearly they these guys won't be

1194
01:04:16,080 --> 01:04:20,360
Speaker 1: able to handle, you know, standing up to dogs in combat. Yeah,

1195
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:23,920
Speaker 1: this was one of many misconceptions that the things we're

1196
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:27,720
Speaker 1: going to go in that war. On October eighteen sixty two,

1197
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:30,920
Speaker 1: the Battle of Pocataligo Bridge marked the first time Black

1198
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:33,560
Speaker 1: soldiers came face to face with the Negro dogs of

1199
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:36,680
Speaker 1: slave patrols in open combat. The black soldiers were the

1200
01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:39,480
Speaker 1: men of the first South Carolina Colored Regiments, and their

1201
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:43,080
Speaker 1: field reports stated that the men met these dogs with bayonets,

1202
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:47,040
Speaker 1: killed four or five of their old tormentors with great relish.

1203
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:49,720
Speaker 1: And I'm not normally a killing dogs person, but in

1204
01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:53,840
Speaker 1: this case it's a good story. Yeah, yeah, just you

1205
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:57,440
Speaker 1: when you and I feel like knowing a little bit

1206
01:04:57,480 --> 01:05:01,320
Speaker 1: of your backstory, you'd be so prize when a person

1207
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:06,680
Speaker 1: is like fighting for their life, the amount of bravery

1208
01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:10,520
Speaker 1: and adrenaline that you can muster up when you're like I,

1209
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:14,240
Speaker 1: I'm not dying today. Yeah, it's not happening to day,

1210
01:05:14,280 --> 01:05:16,520
Speaker 1: you know. So yeah, when you when you don't under

1211
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:19,160
Speaker 1: if you want to estimate that, and you just think

1212
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:20,960
Speaker 1: you you think this dog, you think this dog, Finn,

1213
01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:22,880
Speaker 1: stop these men like you think I'm worried about that

1214
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:26,400
Speaker 1: little dog right now. Naw, bro, we got going back.

1215
01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:31,720
Speaker 1: We're not going back. We got guns now. Yeah. Yeah.

1216
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:35,000
Speaker 1: So fighting between Confederate units with slavehounds and Black Union

1217
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:37,720
Speaker 1: units continued throughout the war. In eighteen sixty four, one

1218
01:05:37,720 --> 01:05:40,160
Speaker 1: Black soldier wrote a letter back to his wife depicting

1219
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:42,040
Speaker 1: one such batter and was he actually wrote her a poem,

1220
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:44,080
Speaker 1: and it's a pretty cool poem. So I'm gonna read that. Now.

1221
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:47,240
Speaker 1: We met the bloodhounds at the bridge. They ran with

1222
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:50,120
Speaker 1: all their might. It was a glorious sight. We ran

1223
01:05:50,120 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 1: our bayonets through their backs. We shot them with the gun.

1224
01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:55,000
Speaker 1: It was all over with the dogs, and twas most

1225
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:57,920
Speaker 1: glorious fun. In former days, those brutes were used to

1226
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:00,960
Speaker 1: hunt the flying slave. They tracked them through their dismal

1227
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:04,080
Speaker 1: swamps and little quarter gave. But when they tried the

1228
01:06:04,120 --> 01:06:06,480
Speaker 1: game of war, we knocked them on the head. We

1229
01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:09,320
Speaker 1: shot them quick and ran them through until every hound

1230
01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:20,240
Speaker 1: was dead. Oh yeahs bars, yeah, so obviously and um

1231
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:22,640
Speaker 1: spoilers here to the listeners who have not caught up

1232
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:25,520
Speaker 1: to us history past, Like eighteen sixty four, the Confederacy

1233
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:34,360
Speaker 1: didn't win, ant lost. I'll tell you one of the

1234
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:37,280
Speaker 1: I I got to watch from a distance someone in

1235
01:06:37,440 --> 01:06:41,560
Speaker 1: my neighborhood in Portland have a real like like growth moment.

1236
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:43,640
Speaker 1: So there's this, you know, the General Lee, the car

1237
01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:46,240
Speaker 1: from the Hazard that was like the Confederate flag on

1238
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:49,560
Speaker 1: the hood. I had a little hot wheels one yeah sure, yeah. Um.

1239
01:06:49,600 --> 01:06:51,640
Speaker 1: There's a guy who lives not far from me who

1240
01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:54,320
Speaker 1: has like a who has that car, like a perfect

1241
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:57,360
Speaker 1: replica of the Generally, and it had the Confederate flag

1242
01:06:57,400 --> 01:06:58,760
Speaker 1: on it. And for the first few months I lived there,

1243
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:00,360
Speaker 1: I would see him driving through this eats with his

1244
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:03,280
Speaker 1: big Confederate flag on his general lead. And about to

1245
01:07:03,640 --> 01:07:06,720
Speaker 1: three months ago I saw him driving his car but

1246
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:09,560
Speaker 1: he painted over the Confederate flag and it was just orange.

1247
01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:14,440
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, you had you had you, Yeah,

1248
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:17,439
Speaker 1: you had a little moment. Good for you. He grew

1249
01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 1: a bit. Yes see, that's what I mean by the Northwest,

1250
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:26,080
Speaker 1: specificallymportant as a tale of two cities, because I'm like,

1251
01:07:26,600 --> 01:07:32,240
Speaker 1: there's this just bastion of like left progressive like freedom

1252
01:07:32,360 --> 01:07:37,160
Speaker 1: fighting yahto and like you know, tiger Claw damn like

1253
01:07:37,680 --> 01:07:40,600
Speaker 1: hard hard ciders at the police, you know what I'm saying.

1254
01:07:41,040 --> 01:07:45,360
Speaker 1: And then and then there's the guy with the right

1255
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:48,560
Speaker 1: in my life, my life. It's a complicated place, yes,

1256
01:07:49,160 --> 01:07:51,520
Speaker 1: and then the right guy with the robberty league, with

1257
01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:54,000
Speaker 1: the with the general league. Like it's just it's two

1258
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:56,760
Speaker 1: cities in one place. Some of the greatest coffee in

1259
01:07:56,800 --> 01:08:01,120
Speaker 1: the world, quote solid beer quote me, some of the

1260
01:08:01,120 --> 01:08:06,160
Speaker 1: most amazing beer. And then there's like and then there's Salem.

1261
01:08:06,840 --> 01:08:13,320
Speaker 1: There's Salem. How it happened? Yeah yeah, so um yeah.

1262
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:15,840
Speaker 1: The Confederacy lost the war, and by eighteen sixty five,

1263
01:08:16,120 --> 01:08:19,200
Speaker 1: both the dream of Southern independence and slavery were dead.

1264
01:08:19,439 --> 01:08:22,840
Speaker 1: White supremacy, though did not die. White people in the

1265
01:08:22,840 --> 01:08:26,240
Speaker 1: former Confederate States wasted no time in turning the institutions

1266
01:08:26,240 --> 01:08:29,759
Speaker 1: of the slave patrols into formal police departments. In eighteen

1267
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:32,800
Speaker 1: sixty five, the editor of the Lynchburg Virginian noted, which

1268
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:36,240
Speaker 1: was the newspaper noted that quote stringent police regulations may

1269
01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:39,599
Speaker 1: be necessary to keep Friedman from over burdening the towns

1270
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:43,200
Speaker 1: and depleting the agricultural regions of labor. The civil authority

1271
01:08:43,240 --> 01:08:46,000
Speaker 1: should also be fully empowered to protect the community from

1272
01:08:46,040 --> 01:08:49,719
Speaker 1: this new imposition. The magistrates and municipal officers everywhere should

1273
01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:52,719
Speaker 1: be permitted to hold a rod into aram over these

1274
01:08:52,720 --> 01:08:56,400
Speaker 1: wandering idle creatures. Nothing short of the most efficient police

1275
01:08:56,439 --> 01:09:00,160
Speaker 1: system will prevent strolling, vagrancy, theft, and other destruction of

1276
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:04,920
Speaker 1: our industrial system. So that's pretty clear. That's pretty great.

1277
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:07,840
Speaker 1: It's the it's the like, it's the moment. Like, so

1278
01:09:07,880 --> 01:09:10,519
Speaker 1: the Chappelle Show years ago had a skit where he

1279
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:16,280
Speaker 1: depicted the day like the postman comes with the letter

1280
01:09:16,800 --> 01:09:19,800
Speaker 1: that the slaves are free, right, Like it's one of

1281
01:09:19,840 --> 01:09:22,320
Speaker 1: the greatest skits, and they're just and he's about to

1282
01:09:22,320 --> 01:09:24,240
Speaker 1: whoop this whip this guy. Whipped this guy, whip this guy.

1283
01:09:24,280 --> 01:09:27,360
Speaker 1: Then the postman walks up and he goes, well, apparently,

1284
01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:30,800
Speaker 1: apparently you guys are free, and it just starts like

1285
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:33,040
Speaker 1: looking around at all the other slaves around him, and

1286
01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:37,439
Speaker 1: they're like he's like, uh hey, sorry about that. A

1287
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:40,640
Speaker 1: second ago, man, you know, just like, so what do

1288
01:09:40,800 --> 01:09:44,360
Speaker 1: you do? Like what exactly? So They're like, we bet it,

1289
01:09:44,439 --> 01:09:46,320
Speaker 1: you know, we bet it. We better get in some

1290
01:09:46,400 --> 01:09:49,639
Speaker 1: protection because those last hundred years were kind of shipped

1291
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:52,679
Speaker 1: to them. You know, Oh, ship, what if they treat

1292
01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:59,519
Speaker 1: us even a little bit as bad as Yeah. In

1293
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:03,519
Speaker 1: her books Slave Patrols, Hayden notes quote policemen in southern

1294
01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:06,759
Speaker 1: towns continued to carry out those aspects of urban slave

1295
01:10:06,760 --> 01:10:10,720
Speaker 1: patrolling that seemed race neutral, but in reality were applied selectively.

1296
01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:14,040
Speaker 1: Police saw that nightly curfews and vagrancy laws kept blacks

1297
01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:16,759
Speaker 1: off city streets, just as patrollers had done in colonial

1298
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:19,960
Speaker 1: and anti bellum times. In the post war South, police

1299
01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:22,439
Speaker 1: were seen as the single most important method of maintaining

1300
01:10:22,439 --> 01:10:25,480
Speaker 1: a system of, in the words of one prominent Virginia clergyman,

1301
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:29,439
Speaker 1: liberty for the white man, slavery for the inward, so

1302
01:10:29,479 --> 01:10:32,280
Speaker 1: long as the white man is able to hold him

1303
01:10:32,400 --> 01:10:39,040
Speaker 1: m M exactly now. In the textbook Policing by North

1304
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:43,160
Speaker 1: Dakota States Caro Archbold, published by Sage Press, Uh it

1305
01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:45,200
Speaker 1: gets like that text book gives a rundown of how

1306
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:48,639
Speaker 1: slave patrollers transitioned into policing freed blacks. In the post

1307
01:10:48,640 --> 01:10:51,479
Speaker 1: war period, and I'm gonna quote from that next. During

1308
01:10:51,479 --> 01:10:54,680
Speaker 1: early reconstruction, several groups merged with what was formerly known

1309
01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:58,000
Speaker 1: as slave patrols to maintain order over African American citizens.

1310
01:10:58,240 --> 01:11:01,000
Speaker 1: Groups such as the federal military, the State Militia, and

1311
01:11:01,040 --> 01:11:03,880
Speaker 1: the ku Klux Klan took over the responsibilities of earlier

1312
01:11:03,920 --> 01:11:06,080
Speaker 1: slave patrols and were known to be even more violent

1313
01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:09,479
Speaker 1: than their predecessors. Over time, these groups began to resemble

1314
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:12,320
Speaker 1: and operate similar to some of the newly established police

1315
01:11:12,360 --> 01:11:15,519
Speaker 1: departments in the United States. In fact, David Barlow and

1316
01:11:15,520 --> 01:11:18,519
Speaker 1: Melissa Barlow note that by eighteen thirty seven, the Charleston

1317
01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:21,160
Speaker 1: Police Department had a hundred officers and the primary function

1318
01:11:21,160 --> 01:11:24,800
Speaker 1: of this organization was slave patrol. These officers regulated the

1319
01:11:24,840 --> 01:11:27,880
Speaker 1: movements of slaves and free blacks, checking documents and forcing

1320
01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:30,920
Speaker 1: slave codes, guarding against slave revolts, and catching runaway slaves.

1321
01:11:31,280 --> 01:11:34,280
Speaker 1: Scholars and historians assert that the transition from slave patrols

1322
01:11:34,280 --> 01:11:37,799
Speaker 1: to publicly funded police agencies was seamless in the southern

1323
01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:39,639
Speaker 1: region of the United States. So they just took these

1324
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:43,600
Speaker 1: slave patrols. The war's over, now, your cops. That's literally

1325
01:11:43,680 --> 01:11:48,120
Speaker 1: how it went. Yeah, Now that's not every obviously, not

1326
01:11:48,160 --> 01:11:49,720
Speaker 1: every police part from the South, because like a lot

1327
01:11:49,720 --> 01:11:51,519
Speaker 1: of cities and towns that are in the South now

1328
01:11:51,560 --> 01:11:54,519
Speaker 1: and have police didn't exist back then. But like, for example,

1329
01:11:54,840 --> 01:11:58,000
Speaker 1: the St. Louis Police started as a slave patrol. The

1330
01:11:58,000 --> 01:12:01,439
Speaker 1: the St. Louis Police Department that existed to day as

1331
01:12:01,479 --> 01:12:05,880
Speaker 1: a slave patrol. Yes, the current St. Louis Police have

1332
01:12:06,040 --> 01:12:11,040
Speaker 1: their origins as a slave patrol. Yeah. So a number

1333
01:12:11,080 --> 01:12:13,599
Speaker 1: of the St. Louis Police Department's first officers were former

1334
01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:16,080
Speaker 1: bounty hunters and slave patrollers, and they brought to their

1335
01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:20,320
Speaker 1: new job their old tactics, most specifically their old tactic

1336
01:12:20,400 --> 01:12:23,840
Speaker 1: of using dogs to torture and terrify black people. And

1337
01:12:24,479 --> 01:12:30,080
Speaker 1: here's where things get real, real, real angry making, because

1338
01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:33,679
Speaker 1: the use of Negro dogs continues to this moment right

1339
01:12:33,680 --> 01:12:37,760
Speaker 1: now in present day St. Louis. Oh my god, yeah,

1340
01:12:38,439 --> 01:12:45,000
Speaker 1: talk to huh, I said, talk to me, Nelly stomping

1341
01:12:45,080 --> 01:12:50,240
Speaker 1: into Air Force ones. In two thousand fourteen, the murder

1342
01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:53,479
Speaker 1: of Michael Brown by a Ferguson St. Louis police officer

1343
01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:56,280
Speaker 1: prompted an uprising by the city's black population. And people

1344
01:12:56,320 --> 01:12:58,360
Speaker 1: are broadly familiar with us and this was suppressed with

1345
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:01,640
Speaker 1: extreme violence. But the whole affair forced the Department of

1346
01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:04,280
Speaker 1: Justice to conduct and publish an expansive report on the

1347
01:13:04,280 --> 01:13:09,000
Speaker 1: Ferguson Police Department's behavior. This report concluded that, quote, the

1348
01:13:09,040 --> 01:13:12,520
Speaker 1: Ferguson Police Department engages in a pattern of deploying canines

1349
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:15,879
Speaker 1: to bite individuals when the articulated facts do not justify

1350
01:13:15,920 --> 01:13:18,960
Speaker 1: the significant use of force, leaving serious puncture wounds to

1351
01:13:19,000 --> 01:13:23,559
Speaker 1: non violent offenders, some of them children. Now, the report

1352
01:13:23,600 --> 01:13:25,920
Speaker 1: went on to note that Ferguson police were allowed to

1353
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:29,280
Speaker 1: sick dogs on suspects when any crime, not just a

1354
01:13:29,280 --> 01:13:33,280
Speaker 1: felony or violent crime, has been committed. This permissiveness, combined

1355
01:13:33,320 --> 01:13:36,120
Speaker 1: with the absence of meaningful supervisory review and an apparent

1356
01:13:36,160 --> 01:13:39,639
Speaker 1: tendency to overstate the threat based on race, has resulted

1357
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:43,160
Speaker 1: in avoidable dog bites to low level offenders. And the

1358
01:13:43,240 --> 01:13:45,240
Speaker 1: d J report kind of uses a little bit of

1359
01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:47,559
Speaker 1: weasel language on this fact. But one of the things

1360
01:13:47,560 --> 01:13:50,920
Speaker 1: that revealed is that one hundred percent of the people

1361
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:55,960
Speaker 1: maimed by Ferguson police dogs were black. See this, like,

1362
01:13:58,920 --> 01:14:01,240
Speaker 1: how what am I trying to say? Now? What gets

1363
01:14:01,360 --> 01:14:04,960
Speaker 1: me right? What gets under my skin? In discussions of

1364
01:14:05,000 --> 01:14:12,360
Speaker 1: this is that it sounds so preposterous that people say,

1365
01:14:12,680 --> 01:14:15,360
Speaker 1: we're alarmists, we're just making this stuff up. You know,

1366
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:17,840
Speaker 1: that was a long time ago. It's all in your head,

1367
01:14:18,040 --> 01:14:22,320
Speaker 1: and it's and you're like, so after a while, you

1368
01:14:22,439 --> 01:14:26,200
Speaker 1: actually start thinking, you know, maybe I am crazy, maybe

1369
01:14:26,240 --> 01:14:28,080
Speaker 1: it is in my head. And then you're just like

1370
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:30,759
Speaker 1: and then you look at your other your other black friends,

1371
01:14:30,760 --> 01:14:33,599
Speaker 1: and you like, am I tripping or did this happen?

1372
01:14:33,680 --> 01:14:35,840
Speaker 1: And they're like, no, it kind of happened to me too.

1373
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:38,080
Speaker 1: And then you're like, how about the other side of

1374
01:14:38,080 --> 01:14:39,880
Speaker 1: the country. Did it happen to y'all too? And you're

1375
01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:43,479
Speaker 1: just like yeah. So then when you and then when

1376
01:14:43,479 --> 01:14:46,400
Speaker 1: the report comes out, you're just like, guys, like, I'm

1377
01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:49,960
Speaker 1: telling you I'm not crazy. I'm telling you this is happening,

1378
01:14:50,120 --> 01:14:52,800
Speaker 1: you know, And I still got to convince you. And

1379
01:14:52,840 --> 01:14:54,960
Speaker 1: I'm like, what do you what do many receipts do

1380
01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:58,680
Speaker 1: you need? And it it didn't convince it. Fifteen this

1381
01:14:58,800 --> 01:15:01,920
Speaker 1: comes out and it's another like people seem more convinced

1382
01:15:01,960 --> 01:15:04,120
Speaker 1: now after everything that's happened, but like it took like

1383
01:15:04,200 --> 01:15:06,639
Speaker 1: five years after this report came out, and there was really,

1384
01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:08,760
Speaker 1: you know, there was an upper or the murder of

1385
01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:11,880
Speaker 1: Michael Brown obviously, um, but there was the fucking the

1386
01:15:11,880 --> 01:15:15,160
Speaker 1: fact that the fact that a police department formed out

1387
01:15:15,160 --> 01:15:17,639
Speaker 1: of a slave patrol that used dogs too maim black

1388
01:15:17,680 --> 01:15:21,160
Speaker 1: people in order to terrorize them was two hundred years

1389
01:15:21,240 --> 01:15:24,400
Speaker 1: later using dogs to nime only black people in order

1390
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:26,880
Speaker 1: to tear the fact that that was happening like that,

1391
01:15:27,040 --> 01:15:29,320
Speaker 1: it was like, yeah, and then it was out of

1392
01:15:29,320 --> 01:15:30,519
Speaker 1: the zeit geist. And then it was out of the

1393
01:15:30,600 --> 01:15:32,120
Speaker 1: ze guist that I was gonna say. Then it's gone

1394
01:15:32,120 --> 01:15:33,720
Speaker 1: out of the zi guys, and it's and that's the

1395
01:15:33,760 --> 01:15:35,640
Speaker 1: other thing that's so hard about like and im and

1396
01:15:35,680 --> 01:15:38,280
Speaker 1: I'm critiquing myself period. I'm taking all of us period.

1397
01:15:38,360 --> 01:15:43,840
Speaker 1: Is like when when the cameras leave, Like how hard

1398
01:15:43,880 --> 01:15:46,719
Speaker 1: it is to keep the energy up to say, look, listen,

1399
01:15:46,800 --> 01:15:48,479
Speaker 1: I know it's a high. It was a high, like

1400
01:15:49,080 --> 01:15:52,680
Speaker 1: you know, high profile case. But it's not done, you

1401
01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:54,719
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. And now that it's back, Okay,

1402
01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:56,920
Speaker 1: it's a year later, y'all forgot about my ground because

1403
01:15:56,920 --> 01:15:59,439
Speaker 1: you onto the next hashtag. But I'm like, no, seriously,

1404
01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:02,280
Speaker 1: we didn't make this up. Like here's the evidence, Like

1405
01:16:02,280 --> 01:16:05,040
Speaker 1: I'm telling you that's what happened, and it's like how

1406
01:16:05,280 --> 01:16:09,639
Speaker 1: it's you. You you find yourself like just exhausted as

1407
01:16:09,680 --> 01:16:12,839
Speaker 1: to go, Like I just no matter how many receipts

1408
01:16:12,880 --> 01:16:18,439
Speaker 1: I give you, like you know what I'm saying, Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1409
01:16:18,720 --> 01:16:21,360
Speaker 1: speaking of receipts, I do feel like I need to

1410
01:16:21,479 --> 01:16:24,000
Speaker 1: quote from the New Yorker here and there. They did

1411
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:25,960
Speaker 1: do a pretty good article kind of digging into the

1412
01:16:26,040 --> 01:16:27,920
Speaker 1: use of these these dogs. So I do want to

1413
01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:30,880
Speaker 1: like credit them for that. They didn't look away. They

1414
01:16:31,120 --> 01:16:33,360
Speaker 1: you know, they put out an article which isn't nothing

1415
01:16:33,680 --> 01:16:40,080
Speaker 1: um better than not? Yeah right, like yeah. In one account,

1416
01:16:40,080 --> 01:16:42,439
Speaker 1: a dog was sent after an unarmed sixteen year old

1417
01:16:42,479 --> 01:16:44,840
Speaker 1: who was also tazered. The electric shock of that weapon

1418
01:16:44,880 --> 01:16:47,120
Speaker 1: partially paralyzed as a person. If that were to happen

1419
01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:48,920
Speaker 1: while a dog was tearing at your arms and legs,

1420
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:52,080
Speaker 1: all you could do would be to watch an immobilized horror.

1421
01:16:52,439 --> 01:16:55,960
Speaker 1: Another case involved four police officers, including a canine handler,

1422
01:16:56,040 --> 01:16:58,759
Speaker 1: trapping an unarmed fourteen year old in an abandoned basement.

1423
01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:02,439
Speaker 1: The crime tres passing. The Department of Justice report recounts

1424
01:17:02,439 --> 01:17:04,760
Speaker 1: what the boy says happened. To him. When he saw

1425
01:17:04,800 --> 01:17:06,400
Speaker 1: the dog at the top of the steps, he turned

1426
01:17:06,439 --> 01:17:08,240
Speaker 1: to run, but the dog quickly bit him on the

1427
01:17:08,240 --> 01:17:10,200
Speaker 1: ankle and then the thigh, causing him to fall to

1428
01:17:10,280 --> 01:17:12,519
Speaker 1: the floor. The dog was about to bite his face

1429
01:17:12,600 --> 01:17:14,559
Speaker 1: or neck, but instead got his left arm, which the

1430
01:17:14,560 --> 01:17:18,080
Speaker 1: boy had raised to protect himself. FPD officers struck him

1431
01:17:18,080 --> 01:17:20,040
Speaker 1: while he was on the ground, one of them putting

1432
01:17:20,040 --> 01:17:22,120
Speaker 1: a boot on the side of his head. He recalled,

1433
01:17:22,160 --> 01:17:28,400
Speaker 1: the officers laughing about the incident afterward. Ah, the poison blue,

1434
01:17:28,920 --> 01:17:32,880
Speaker 1: the boys in blue and the boys in blue. Man, yeah,

1435
01:17:33,000 --> 01:17:38,960
Speaker 1: he just Man, it's like how many how many bad

1436
01:17:39,000 --> 01:17:41,519
Speaker 1: apples you need before you start like checking the orchard?

1437
01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:44,519
Speaker 1: Like yeah, what if the soil is bad? Like how

1438
01:17:44,760 --> 01:17:47,559
Speaker 1: nobody's like you keep talking about these yo treat keep

1439
01:17:47,560 --> 01:17:50,519
Speaker 1: producing bad fruit like and you keep blaming like some

1440
01:17:50,640 --> 01:17:53,360
Speaker 1: wrong with your treat. Man, all these apples are just

1441
01:17:53,400 --> 01:17:56,479
Speaker 1: filled with piss, Like what happened? Apples? Why are the

1442
01:17:56,520 --> 01:17:59,000
Speaker 1: all the apples would piss? That's just one then why

1443
01:17:59,360 --> 01:18:00,720
Speaker 1: Well if it's just why are you putting it in

1444
01:18:00,800 --> 01:18:03,599
Speaker 1: a bucket? Where do we keep grew in these apples?

1445
01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:07,000
Speaker 1: Why do you keeping there? I mean, we get rid

1446
01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:09,960
Speaker 1: of the orchard. It's a bad like it makes sense

1447
01:18:09,960 --> 01:18:17,000
Speaker 1: to me. Yeah, yep. So again, the use of Ferguson

1448
01:18:17,040 --> 01:18:19,160
Speaker 1: police dogs made very little of a splash when it

1449
01:18:19,200 --> 01:18:21,120
Speaker 1: was revealed, even though again a hundred percent of the

1450
01:18:21,160 --> 01:18:24,600
Speaker 1: individuals named by Ferguson police dogs were black, and of

1451
01:18:24,640 --> 01:18:27,320
Speaker 1: individuals that the Ferguson Police did violence too in general,

1452
01:18:27,320 --> 01:18:30,519
Speaker 1: were black. Names of canine officers and their supervisors were

1453
01:18:30,560 --> 01:18:33,200
Speaker 1: not revealed in the report. That Department of Justice report

1454
01:18:33,240 --> 01:18:35,240
Speaker 1: on the Ferguson p D made one hundred and thirty

1455
01:18:35,320 --> 01:18:38,160
Speaker 1: seven corrective recommendations on how the department could fix its

1456
01:18:38,200 --> 01:18:41,759
Speaker 1: violent behavior. Only one of those reforms dealt with canine violence,

1457
01:18:42,040 --> 01:18:46,160
Speaker 1: suggesting that the police department require on site supervisory approval

1458
01:18:46,360 --> 01:18:49,800
Speaker 1: before allowing a canine officer to maim people. It's like

1459
01:18:55,280 --> 01:18:58,320
Speaker 1: if a cool I bite this black guy, Okay, yeah,

1460
01:18:58,320 --> 01:19:00,600
Speaker 1: I want to have a dog tear the flesh of

1461
01:19:00,600 --> 01:19:03,200
Speaker 1: this fourteen year old? Is that cool? That's all right?

1462
01:19:04,640 --> 01:19:10,639
Speaker 1: Glad we put it put this so, as of today,

1463
01:19:10,720 --> 01:19:14,639
Speaker 1: Ferguson police still use dogs to control suspects. Most Ferguson

1464
01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:17,120
Speaker 1: officers are white. Virtually all the people they arrest and

1465
01:19:17,160 --> 01:19:20,400
Speaker 1: detain are black No Ferguson officer has yet been tried

1466
01:19:20,479 --> 01:19:24,519
Speaker 1: or fired for using police dogs to brutalize citizens. Professor

1467
01:19:24,600 --> 01:19:28,679
Speaker 1: Larry Sprule notes, quote the officer's procedural avoidance of criminal

1468
01:19:28,720 --> 01:19:31,439
Speaker 1: liability for death and torture of black citizens was not

1469
01:19:31,560 --> 01:19:37,840
Speaker 1: dissimilar to slave patroller's antebellum indemnity for similar violence. Yep.

1470
01:19:39,120 --> 01:19:41,799
Speaker 1: In his paper on Negro dogs and the Ferguson Police,

1471
01:19:41,840 --> 01:19:45,720
Speaker 1: Professor Sprul sites to other academics Williams and Murphy, who

1472
01:19:45,720 --> 01:19:48,599
Speaker 1: wrote a nineteen paper on the transition from slave patrols

1473
01:19:48,640 --> 01:19:52,080
Speaker 1: to police departments. Williams and Murphy noted, quote, the legal

1474
01:19:52,200 --> 01:19:55,479
Speaker 1: order sustained slavery, segregation, and discrimination from most of our

1475
01:19:55,560 --> 01:19:57,759
Speaker 1: nation's history, and the fact that the police were bound

1476
01:19:57,760 --> 01:20:00,519
Speaker 1: to uphold that order set a pattern for police behavior

1477
01:20:00,720 --> 01:20:04,200
Speaker 1: and attitudes towards minority communities that have persisted until the

1478
01:20:04,200 --> 01:20:07,400
Speaker 1: present day. That pattern includes the idea that minorities have

1479
01:20:07,479 --> 01:20:09,840
Speaker 1: fewer civil rights, that the task of police is to

1480
01:20:09,920 --> 01:20:12,200
Speaker 1: keep them under control, and that the police have little

1481
01:20:12,200 --> 01:20:17,560
Speaker 1: responsibility for protecting them from crime within their communities. Oh God,

1482
01:20:17,880 --> 01:20:24,000
Speaker 1: there we go. Oh my god. Yep. Maybe plain they

1483
01:20:24,000 --> 01:20:26,639
Speaker 1: can throw me one of those one of those white claws.

1484
01:20:29,680 --> 01:20:32,799
Speaker 1: There was I missed this rally, but there was apparently

1485
01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:34,479
Speaker 1: a rally where some of the anti for kids. Do

1486
01:20:34,560 --> 01:20:36,880
Speaker 1: you remember there was that that pepsi ad with Um

1487
01:20:39,200 --> 01:20:41,400
Speaker 1: Jenner where she hands a pepsi to a cop. Like

1488
01:20:41,520 --> 01:20:43,840
Speaker 1: right after that, add a bunch of those like kids

1489
01:20:44,280 --> 01:20:46,360
Speaker 1: showed up at this I think it was a Mayday

1490
01:20:46,400 --> 01:20:49,559
Speaker 1: protest with like like crates of pepsi and just started

1491
01:20:49,640 --> 01:20:58,680
Speaker 1: chucking them at the cops. I love it. Uh yeah,

1492
01:20:58,760 --> 01:21:01,400
Speaker 1: oh my god, dude. I mean you know what. I

1493
01:21:01,479 --> 01:21:03,280
Speaker 1: give it to the antifa kids. Man, they got sense

1494
01:21:03,320 --> 01:21:06,519
Speaker 1: as a humor die like y'all funny, you know what

1495
01:21:06,560 --> 01:21:11,200
Speaker 1: I'm saying. Yeah, it's it's I you know it. It's

1496
01:21:11,280 --> 01:21:13,880
Speaker 1: It's been interesting because like there's all this talk of

1497
01:21:13,960 --> 01:21:16,240
Speaker 1: like like Portland has like a big anti fascist sort

1498
01:21:16,280 --> 01:21:18,559
Speaker 1: of activist community, but like with all the talk that

1499
01:21:18,600 --> 01:21:21,320
Speaker 1: there is with from the president about Antifa at these protests,

1500
01:21:21,479 --> 01:21:23,960
Speaker 1: they've really taken a backseat, Like they have not been

1501
01:21:24,040 --> 01:21:26,960
Speaker 1: driving the fucking bus here. Yeah, I can tell you

1502
01:21:27,040 --> 01:21:30,080
Speaker 1: that much. Um. And it's kind of obvious because I'm

1503
01:21:30,120 --> 01:21:34,040
Speaker 1: like in in some ways I feel like a lot

1504
01:21:34,080 --> 01:21:36,600
Speaker 1: of the anti fascist dudes, like they gotta they have

1505
01:21:36,640 --> 01:21:39,920
Speaker 1: a style. There's like an aesthetic to what they do

1506
01:21:40,400 --> 01:21:42,680
Speaker 1: that like, and I know it's a weird way to

1507
01:21:42,680 --> 01:21:44,559
Speaker 1: say it, but I feel like I go, oh, yeah,

1508
01:21:44,560 --> 01:21:46,559
Speaker 1: that's that's kind of their flavor, you know. I'm like,

1509
01:21:46,640 --> 01:21:52,480
Speaker 1: this ain't that. Yeah, it's just something else, you know. Yeah.

1510
01:21:52,640 --> 01:21:54,640
Speaker 1: It's like when you see yeah, when you see like

1511
01:21:54,640 --> 01:21:58,960
Speaker 1: the graffiti that says like Black's rule, I'm like, black

1512
01:21:58,960 --> 01:22:04,240
Speaker 1: man did not write that, know, like that that's ridiculous. Okay.

1513
01:22:04,920 --> 01:22:07,320
Speaker 1: The flip side of that was like in Portland on

1514
01:22:07,600 --> 01:22:10,000
Speaker 1: two Fridays ago, I think we had um, you know,

1515
01:22:10,400 --> 01:22:12,360
Speaker 1: a crowd marched to the Justice Center and then people

1516
01:22:12,360 --> 01:22:14,679
Speaker 1: just started sucking it up, like breaking all the windows.

1517
01:22:14,720 --> 01:22:16,760
Speaker 1: They lit some fires like and it was one of

1518
01:22:16,800 --> 01:22:18,639
Speaker 1: it was very obvious, I think to everyone who knew

1519
01:22:18,640 --> 01:22:20,960
Speaker 1: the city, like because this was like the day after

1520
01:22:21,040 --> 01:22:23,800
Speaker 1: the Precinct in Minneapolis was burned, and I was like, yeah,

1521
01:22:24,040 --> 01:22:27,280
Speaker 1: that Justice Center up, it's going down. Yeah, And there

1522
01:22:27,320 --> 01:22:29,160
Speaker 1: was like it was blamed a lot on like like

1523
01:22:29,160 --> 01:22:31,280
Speaker 1: white anarchist kids, Like, yeah, there were definitely some of

1524
01:22:31,280 --> 01:22:32,960
Speaker 1: those folks doing it, but like it was a pretty

1525
01:22:32,960 --> 01:22:37,200
Speaker 1: diverse crowd that sucked up the justice It's not. Yeah,

1526
01:22:37,800 --> 01:22:41,000
Speaker 1: you know, life and history is not so compartmentalized that

1527
01:22:41,040 --> 01:22:43,080
Speaker 1: you could just be like this happened, that this happened,

1528
01:22:43,080 --> 01:22:46,200
Speaker 1: and that group of people boughten Sales did the thing. Yeah,

1529
01:22:46,400 --> 01:22:48,639
Speaker 1: a lot of folks wanted to get into that justice

1530
01:22:48,640 --> 01:22:55,840
Speaker 1: center and yeah, um so properly. That is episode one.

1531
01:22:56,040 --> 01:22:57,840
Speaker 1: And again this is you know, the slave Slave, but

1532
01:22:58,040 --> 01:23:00,759
Speaker 1: a lot of you know this, I'll much every episode

1533
01:23:00,760 --> 01:23:02,280
Speaker 1: is going to deal with racism because it's kind of

1534
01:23:02,280 --> 01:23:04,559
Speaker 1: central to policing. But next episode we're gonna be talking

1535
01:23:04,600 --> 01:23:07,680
Speaker 1: about sort of policing more in the North and and

1536
01:23:07,800 --> 01:23:11,720
Speaker 1: kind of policing against against people we consider white, but

1537
01:23:11,760 --> 01:23:14,320
Speaker 1: who at the time the people who controlled the police

1538
01:23:14,400 --> 01:23:17,960
Speaker 1: might not necessarily have considered white. You know. That's that's Oh,

1539
01:23:18,120 --> 01:23:20,800
Speaker 1: I can't wait for this one because like at some point, man,

1540
01:23:21,040 --> 01:23:24,280
Speaker 1: I just feel like, I know, my work's gonna call

1541
01:23:24,360 --> 01:23:28,920
Speaker 1: me to do a some sort of deep dive in

1542
01:23:28,960 --> 01:23:33,800
Speaker 1: the construction of like pan ethnic terms like black or

1543
01:23:33,880 --> 01:23:36,760
Speaker 1: white and what the hell that means, Like, you know,

1544
01:23:37,000 --> 01:23:40,840
Speaker 1: even even hearing like the who was the Milo boy?

1545
01:23:40,920 --> 01:23:44,479
Speaker 1: What was his name? Milois? Yeah? Whatever his name is

1546
01:23:44,880 --> 01:23:48,519
Speaker 1: him talking about like this our country was made for

1547
01:23:49,120 --> 01:23:53,639
Speaker 1: the advancement of white men, and I'm like, no, wasn't

1548
01:23:53,720 --> 01:23:55,720
Speaker 1: because there was no such thing as white man when

1549
01:23:55,800 --> 01:23:58,720
Speaker 1: y'all got here, and you you ain't even you don't

1550
01:23:58,720 --> 01:24:00,439
Speaker 1: even what the Irish here that's the are then part

1551
01:24:00,439 --> 01:24:02,680
Speaker 1: of the same island for crying out loud, so like

1552
01:24:02,760 --> 01:24:04,800
Speaker 1: you're looking at them, you don't think it's still people

1553
01:24:04,840 --> 01:24:07,280
Speaker 1: in this world that don't think Italians are white, Like

1554
01:24:07,479 --> 01:24:09,800
Speaker 1: I just what the hell are you talking about? You

1555
01:24:09,840 --> 01:24:12,000
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, Like, so you don't even know

1556
01:24:12,040 --> 01:24:15,920
Speaker 1: what white means, you know? So I love what you're

1557
01:24:15,920 --> 01:24:17,559
Speaker 1: gonna go to next because just like you have to

1558
01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:21,120
Speaker 1: remember again it's a construct like y'all made. Y'all made

1559
01:24:21,120 --> 01:24:23,719
Speaker 1: that up. So we'll talk about that in part two.

1560
01:24:24,240 --> 01:24:28,600
Speaker 1: Prop you wanna plug some plugbules before we roll out man. Yeah,

1561
01:24:28,720 --> 01:24:32,440
Speaker 1: so yeah, everything for me is prop hip Hop uh

1562
01:24:32,760 --> 01:24:35,559
Speaker 1: dot com. That's my app mentioned, just all of it.

1563
01:24:35,600 --> 01:24:38,479
Speaker 1: PROP hip Hop doing a fun thing on Friday's called

1564
01:24:38,520 --> 01:24:42,840
Speaker 1: poor Gami Friday's Right. Basically, just make a make a

1565
01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:46,759
Speaker 1: single cup of like pour over coffee with a buddy

1566
01:24:47,280 --> 01:24:50,639
Speaker 1: on Instagram and we feature like yeah, and we feature

1567
01:24:50,720 --> 01:24:55,400
Speaker 1: like a local roaster, uh from wherever like offer discounts

1568
01:24:55,400 --> 01:24:58,760
Speaker 1: and like. And since since this last you know, uprising,

1569
01:24:58,760 --> 01:25:02,639
Speaker 1: we've been featuring like coffee roasters you know, owned by

1570
01:25:02,640 --> 01:25:06,360
Speaker 1: by persons of color. Um did just support just support

1571
01:25:06,400 --> 01:25:08,400
Speaker 1: good coffee, you know what I'm saying. So that's kind

1572
01:25:08,400 --> 01:25:10,160
Speaker 1: of a fun thing. I'd i'd plug on this one.

1573
01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:11,800
Speaker 1: Since I get to come back three times, I get

1574
01:25:11,840 --> 01:25:16,479
Speaker 1: to pick what I'm gonna plug. Yeah, yeah, awesome. Yeah,

1575
01:25:16,520 --> 01:25:19,920
Speaker 1: well check that out. Check out prop and his his

1576
01:25:20,040 --> 01:25:24,559
Speaker 1: wonderful music on his YouTube channel. Um and uh what

1577
01:25:24,680 --> 01:25:28,479
Speaker 1: propaganda people should know if they look for something. Yeah.

1578
01:25:28,560 --> 01:25:30,479
Speaker 1: Also you know what, actually I would say, you know what,

1579
01:25:30,520 --> 01:25:33,200
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that up. So let me save

1580
01:25:33,920 --> 01:25:36,799
Speaker 1: all y'all the d m s you're gonna give me. Okay,

1581
01:25:38,640 --> 01:25:41,720
Speaker 1: at some point, I don't already answered the question you

1582
01:25:41,840 --> 01:25:44,960
Speaker 1: find at want a personal answer for in one of

1583
01:25:45,000 --> 01:25:49,200
Speaker 1: these videos or interviews, so like, so just you know,

1584
01:25:49,680 --> 01:25:54,439
Speaker 1: check the YouTube. Yeah, I'm saying, uh, just just it's

1585
01:25:54,560 --> 01:26:00,679
Speaker 1: it's probably there. We at some point we've talked about it.

1586
01:26:01,080 --> 01:26:02,920
Speaker 1: So I'm just just just go ahead and put that

1587
01:26:02,960 --> 01:26:07,760
Speaker 1: out alright, folks. Um, Well we will be back like

1588
01:26:07,840 --> 01:26:10,439
Speaker 1: fucking four more times at least to talk about more

1589
01:26:10,479 --> 01:26:14,840
Speaker 1: times American police UM and where they came from. So

1590
01:26:14,920 --> 01:26:17,840
Speaker 1: I hope everybody enjoys this series, UM, and I hope

1591
01:26:18,400 --> 01:26:21,760
Speaker 1: folks pass it along to um friends and family who

1592
01:26:22,000 --> 01:26:25,040
Speaker 1: might uh. I think that policing just needs a little

1593
01:26:25,040 --> 01:26:28,800
Speaker 1: bit alike. I just gotta like, just gotta like its face,

1594
01:26:28,840 --> 01:26:31,360
Speaker 1: and we'll be back. We'll be fine. Like I can't

1595
01:26:31,400 --> 01:26:33,880
Speaker 1: go back to it being good. It was always ship

1596
01:26:34,560 --> 01:26:37,439
Speaker 1: rethink this thing, you know, and like and and and

1597
01:26:37,720 --> 01:26:39,280
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm gonna come back to this a bunch

1598
01:26:39,320 --> 01:26:40,760
Speaker 1: of times in this episode, got it, And I'm gonna

1599
01:26:40,760 --> 01:26:41,880
Speaker 1: come back to this in a bunch of times. But

1600
01:26:41,960 --> 01:26:45,840
Speaker 1: like I hope people are hearing that, like almost not

1601
01:26:45,960 --> 01:26:51,160
Speaker 1: almost literally, all of our institutions we just made them up,

1602
01:26:51,960 --> 01:26:54,320
Speaker 1: like they're made up, you know what I'm saying, at

1603
01:26:54,400 --> 01:26:56,600
Speaker 1: some point in time we made they don't exist in

1604
01:26:56,720 --> 01:27:00,080
Speaker 1: nature like we made them up. So if you have

1605
01:27:00,200 --> 01:27:02,679
Speaker 1: a bad idea in any other part of your life,

1606
01:27:03,120 --> 01:27:06,479
Speaker 1: you stop doing the bad idea and you try to

1607
01:27:06,520 --> 01:27:09,920
Speaker 1: make a better one. Yeah, we can. We can have

1608
01:27:09,960 --> 01:27:13,000
Speaker 1: a society where like if someone commits murder, there's somebody

1609
01:27:13,040 --> 01:27:15,280
Speaker 1: whose job it is to like figure out who did

1610
01:27:15,320 --> 01:27:17,120
Speaker 1: that and like make sure they don't get to keep

1611
01:27:17,160 --> 01:27:20,240
Speaker 1: doing We we can have that, we don't have We

1612
01:27:20,280 --> 01:27:24,120
Speaker 1: can have that without having a dude who feels empowered

1613
01:27:24,120 --> 01:27:27,200
Speaker 1: to choke a man for nine minutes. You have to

1614
01:27:27,240 --> 01:27:29,800
Speaker 1: haveth You don't have to have both. You mean to

1615
01:27:29,840 --> 01:27:32,400
Speaker 1: tell me the thought has never crossed your mind that

1616
01:27:32,760 --> 01:27:35,840
Speaker 1: the person next takes care of is homeless guy for loitering,

1617
01:27:36,960 --> 01:27:39,880
Speaker 1: who's just by virtue of his existence is breaking it all.

1618
01:27:40,760 --> 01:27:45,240
Speaker 1: And the same guy and the same tool needs to

1619
01:27:45,240 --> 01:27:47,960
Speaker 1: deal with the acts of murderer. You mean to tell

1620
01:27:47,960 --> 01:27:54,000
Speaker 1: me that that takes the same people. Yeah, countries that

1621
01:27:54,120 --> 01:27:56,960
Speaker 1: have people who like make sure there aren't drunk drivers

1622
01:27:56,960 --> 01:27:59,040
Speaker 1: on the road, and the people who do that job

1623
01:27:59,439 --> 01:28:03,320
Speaker 1: don't have guns and don't get to like throw people

1624
01:28:03,360 --> 01:28:05,720
Speaker 1: in prison and ruin their lives and search them for

1625
01:28:05,800 --> 01:28:08,760
Speaker 1: drugs and plant drugs on them, Like you don't. You

1626
01:28:08,800 --> 01:28:10,559
Speaker 1: can have people whose job is like, yeah, we should

1627
01:28:10,560 --> 01:28:12,639
Speaker 1: make sure, you know, we should have some eyes on traffic,

1628
01:28:12,680 --> 01:28:15,120
Speaker 1: because like that's that's a big thing. Like somebody should

1629
01:28:15,160 --> 01:28:17,559
Speaker 1: be like, let's keep an eye on that ship without

1630
01:28:18,040 --> 01:28:21,760
Speaker 1: the other stuff legally go into a woman's house while

1631
01:28:21,800 --> 01:28:24,600
Speaker 1: she's sleeping and murder her. Maybe we don't need no

1632
01:28:24,680 --> 01:28:28,000
Speaker 1: knock raids at all for any reason. That's a bad idea,

1633
01:28:28,320 --> 01:28:32,719
Speaker 1: like why like who just keeps? Who just holds onto

1634
01:28:32,720 --> 01:28:35,479
Speaker 1: bad ideas? Just like it's a bad idea, Like let's

1635
01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:38,639
Speaker 1: just think of another one. Yeah, shame, we can't change. Well,

1636
01:28:39,680 --> 01:28:43,799
Speaker 1: yeah right, for more bad ideas, come back on on Thursday.

1637
01:28:43,840 --> 01:28:47,280
Speaker 1: Well we'll talk about um, talk more about cops. Yeah,

1638
01:28:47,760 --> 01:28:54,640
Speaker 1: all right, that's us for now. Good Bye Behind the

1639
01:28:54,640 --> 01:28:56,960
Speaker 1: Police is a production of I Heart Radio. For more

1640
01:28:57,000 --> 01:28:59,880
Speaker 1: podcast from my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app,

1641
01:29:00,080 --> 01:29:07,400
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Mama, what

1642
01:29:07,640 --> 01:29:18,000
Speaker 1: does the chicken say? Draft? Draff rally giraffe draft? You're

1643
01:29:18,000 --> 01:29:19,840
Speaker 1: not gonna get it all right, Just make sure you

1644
01:29:19,880 --> 01:29:21,880
Speaker 1: know the big stuff, like making sure your kids are

1645
01:29:21,920 --> 01:29:24,240
Speaker 1: buckled correctly in the right seat for their agent's eyes.

1646
01:29:24,439 --> 01:29:28,360
Speaker 1: Get it right. Visits n h S a dot gov

1647
01:29:28,680 --> 01:29:31,280
Speaker 1: slash the Right Seat brought to you by the National

1648
01:29:31,360 --> 01:29:34,920
Speaker 1: Highway Traffic Safety Administration in the ad Council. You always

1649
01:29:35,000 --> 01:29:38,680
Speaker 1: had the feeling that there's something strange about reality. According

1650
01:29:38,720 --> 01:29:41,200
Speaker 1: to the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast, there is.

1651
01:29:41,479 --> 01:29:44,880
Speaker 1: On the show Post Robert Lamb and Joe McCormick examine

1652
01:29:44,960 --> 01:29:50,560
Speaker 1: neurological quandaries, cosmic mysteries, evolutionary marvels, and much more. Prosthetics

1653
01:29:50,560 --> 01:29:53,919
Speaker 1: are true testaments to not only human craftsmanship and ingenuity,

1654
01:29:53,960 --> 01:29:56,559
Speaker 1: but also to the plasticity of the human brain. Listen

1655
01:29:56,600 --> 01:29:58,519
Speaker 1: to Stuff to Blow your Mind on the I Heart Radio,

1656
01:29:58,560 --> 01:30:00,560
Speaker 1: Apple wherever you get your podcast as brought to you

1657
01:30:00,640 --> 01:30:03,120
Speaker 1: by Doug dot Gol Protective Privacy online for free with

1658
01:30:03,200 --> 01:30:06,360
Speaker 1: Doug Doug go Hello, I'm Mini Driver and on my

1659
01:30:06,439 --> 01:30:10,080
Speaker 1: podcast Many Questions. I put together a little experiment. I

1660
01:30:10,120 --> 01:30:14,599
Speaker 1: asked trailblazers across different disciplines the same seven questions. Questions

1661
01:30:14,640 --> 01:30:17,160
Speaker 1: about the inflection points in their life, what they like

1662
01:30:17,280 --> 01:30:20,280
Speaker 1: least about themselves, and what relationship has to fined love

1663
01:30:20,320 --> 01:30:24,000
Speaker 1: for them. This season, I'm coming back with new trailblazers

1664
01:30:24,520 --> 01:30:27,960
Speaker 1: like Blondie vocalist Debbie Harry. I did have a revelation.

1665
01:30:28,320 --> 01:30:30,559
Speaker 1: It was at CBGBUS. As a matter of fact, I

1666
01:30:30,600 --> 01:30:33,400
Speaker 1: was waiting for the audience to give it to me,

1667
01:30:33,520 --> 01:30:35,479
Speaker 1: give it me. Then I realized that I had to

1668
01:30:36,160 --> 01:30:40,880
Speaker 1: make them. I had to command them. Artists and creative Juggernaut.

1669
01:30:41,000 --> 01:30:43,240
Speaker 1: Goldie and I walk up to the mountain on high

1670
01:30:43,280 --> 01:30:46,439
Speaker 1: cop just being in that environment and seeing life in

1671
01:30:46,479 --> 01:30:49,080
Speaker 1: death in front of you, right in front of you.

1672
01:30:49,600 --> 01:30:52,280
Speaker 1: And I got there and scream and cry and laugh,

1673
01:30:52,360 --> 01:30:57,080
Speaker 1: and I find that being the happiest. And many more

1674
01:30:57,400 --> 01:31:00,719
Speaker 1: join me as we continue this exploration on season two

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Speaker 1: of many questions on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. H