1 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 2 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: My guest today is the one and only Ricky Lee Jones. 3 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 1: Ricky Lee, good to have you on the program. I'm 4 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: glad to be here at last. Okay, what the audience 5 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: doesn't realize is we did an exhaustive podcast back in 6 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: the fall, and we had an audio problem. We covered 7 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: so much territory. I don't know if we could ever 8 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: cover that again, but we're gonna give it another shot. So, 9 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: Ricky Lee, you've been out on the road. What has 10 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: that experience been like in the COVID era. Well, I've 11 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: done a few dates, but let's see. We did some 12 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: in September, and then I guess did Florida. So playing 13 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: Florida isn't like the rest of the country. And the 14 00:00:56,200 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: first night was people were masked and it was a show. 15 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: The second night's odd, very few people had masks on. 16 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: I guess the governor's anti mandate mandate came into effect um. 17 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: But for me to be honest one time on stage, 18 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: I don't even remember there's COVID. I don't remember anything. 19 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 1: I'm just up there playing as I always did. So 20 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: it's it's there are less states harder to do. But 21 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: for me it's the same. Okay, any fear of getting 22 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: COVID yourself, well a little bit, um, but not enough 23 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 1: to keep me from going out there and sharing the 24 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 1: air with people. And at this point in time, what 25 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: is the motivation? To what degree is the motivation go 26 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: on the road? Money? To what degree is the experience? 27 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: To what degree is hey, I just gotta have to 28 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: do something else in my life than there are other 29 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: people who say you can't get that hit anywhere else 30 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: in life being on stage. So what's motivating you at 31 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: this point to go on the road? Money? Money, money, money, 32 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: I don't have. Uh, you know, I think if I 33 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: were rich, would I would I want to go on tour. 34 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 1: I bet you I would. But I can't have that 35 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,079 Speaker 1: perspective because I have to go on to have to 36 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: That's how I make my check. So that gets tiring 37 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: to um. But like anybody else who has to go 38 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: to work, UM, you know, I don't always see um 39 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: that I'd like to do it. I love performing for people, 40 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 1: but it's exhausting, it's exhausting emotionally. Um. Sometimes I'm done, 41 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: you know, and I'd like to wait for the next 42 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: group of songs to come or my life to turn 43 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 1: the dial and then come on stage again. But I 44 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: can't keep keep working. So um, that being said, there 45 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 1: is I don't like that praiser, but there is something 46 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: happening this year. There is something happening wonderful for me. 47 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: People are recognizing me. I don't feel like I've changed, 48 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 1: particularly getting older, and I could add that you know 49 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:21,399 Speaker 1: a woman in pop or rock music getting older, being 50 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 1: one of the survivors making it to old age. And 51 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:31,639 Speaker 1: my job has is bringing to me um a confidence 52 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: because I just don't care anymore. And I don't think 53 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: it's an arrogance. I think it's just finally, if you 54 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: like it, come, I love, I love, I want to 55 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: give love. If you don't, that's all right to go 56 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: where you like it. And I'm not trying to win, 57 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: which was a lifelong pursuit. Believe me that one guy 58 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: will never like what I do, so that's been shed 59 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 1: from me. And when I'm on stage, I'm everybody, I 60 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: imagine UM knows exactly what they're doing. So the thing 61 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: that everything is not at stake when I'm up there, 62 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter if my socks match. All that matters 63 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: is that I'm singing the best I can sing. Um 64 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: that's come to me now, And I think that's translating 65 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: in that way that only comes to older people, where 66 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:35,679 Speaker 1: people go, wow, that she's really good. She's really good. 67 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 1: Now to what degree does that free you creatively? You 68 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: know things you say, well, maybe the audience, whether it 69 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: be on recordings or alive. Me have a hard time 70 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 1: getting to this for this time saying I'm going to 71 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: test the limits. I'm not living forever. Who gives a 72 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: ship that's a great question. I did some testing of 73 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: limits back when I did Ghost Ahead and and and 74 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:02,279 Speaker 1: challenged people's personal reception of me, both both in the 75 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: recording and on tour. That's not what I don't need 76 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: to do that anymore, but I recognize that there is 77 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: some conforming going on. You know, it's such a complicated thing, 78 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: the way we interact with each other. So you know, 79 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: you go, I love it when you brush your hair 80 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: down and wear that red shirt. I like my red shirt. 81 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: But now that I know you want me to brush 82 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: my hair down with the red shirt, I don't know 83 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 1: if I like it anymore. So all those ways we 84 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 1: um doubt what we do naturally, So when I'm on stage, 85 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: I naturally sing jazz, or I naturally like to play 86 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: a happy song, or I naturally very depressed and playset song. 87 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: But when I know you're expecting that, then I start 88 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 1: to feel like I'm, you know, at work and calling 89 00:05:56,480 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: it lines. So then I go, I have so many ideas. 90 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: I'd like to do a night of improvisation and um, 91 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,919 Speaker 1: and I will do that. But but the question is, 92 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: am I just doing it because I want you to 93 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,479 Speaker 1: like me no matter what I do. I want you 94 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: to prove that you like me. I like that superhero 95 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: on the Boys, want you like me, not just my 96 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: music And all those trips I went to I went 97 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: through in the thirties and forties, and I just I 98 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 1: don't really have them now. When I'm ready, maybe I'll 99 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 1: take off my clothes and wear fishnet body suit and 100 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:44,599 Speaker 1: and improvise the entire night if I feel like that's 101 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: gonna take us where we want to go. Because it's 102 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: about the audience as much as me. It just is. 103 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: It's not about you watching me derived pleasure. It's about 104 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: us and how we experience the songs together. When I'm 105 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: singing and I think that you know, there have been 106 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: times in my life where I thought, this is all 107 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: about me, it's not about you. I don't care if 108 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: you like it. Um, I'm not supposed to care if 109 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: you like it, So so fuck you, guys. It's not 110 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: already to say that, and um, yeah, but I know 111 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: that that's not the truth. It never was the truth. 112 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: The truth is if you travel all the way from 113 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: your home and you buy a ticket and all the 114 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: things you have to do to get there, and all 115 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: the things I have to do to get there, we've 116 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: come to be together. And that's what this moment is. 117 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: It's me singing and and that spirit going through it. 118 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: And so, um, I feel like that's your job. I 119 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: do very well and I have confidence now in in 120 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: what I do. And uh, I don't know why, but 121 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: I spent a lifetime without much confidence. Okay, so the 122 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: people at the show, do you? I mean? I have 123 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: this very distinct memory of going to see Brian Adams 124 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: and happened to be during the daytime where it's harder 125 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: to get the audience, and he literally took the set list, 126 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: looked at the band, ripped it in half, and then 127 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: worked his way into the minds of the audience and 128 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: bought everybody together. If people show up at your show, 129 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: do you feel an obligation at this late date, at 130 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: this age to get that person who's sort of you know, 131 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: looking at their phone or drifting. Do you sit up 132 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: and saying saying, I'm gonna convince that person. First of all, 133 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: nobody looks at their phone when I'm on stage. Everybody 134 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: is with me, and if they're not, they're probably somewhere 135 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 1: where I can't see them. Um. You know, I never 136 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: have a set list. It's always about what we feel today. 137 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: Sometimes this song follows this song really well, so you 138 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: might trying to do a couple back to back, but 139 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: I'm always listening and feeling how do I feel tonight? 140 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:12,439 Speaker 1: And where do they want to go? Are they kind 141 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: of sadder? All right, then we'll go that way. So um, 142 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:19,439 Speaker 1: So that's not a big deal to me. It requires 143 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: very special people in the band. They not only have 144 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: to be great players, but they have to not be 145 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: intimidated easily, because that thing of not knowing what you're 146 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: gonna play next can be can make people angry. I've 147 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 1: had musics to get angry about that. So you gotta 148 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: love play and you gotta be a great player, so 149 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 1: that whatever I call you, you're gonna be able to 150 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,559 Speaker 1: do it, and then we have a good time because otherwise, 151 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: in a short time they're playing wrote. They hate me 152 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: because they're playing wrote, but not as much as they 153 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 1: hate me, if I call it a different sense of challenge. 154 00:09:57,760 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: But the main thing I don't I don't know if 155 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: you've seen me and how many times you've seen me, 156 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: but my performances are usually very powerful, um very powerful. 157 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: I like to say that, like church or anything. But 158 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: people get caught up. There's a lot of crying, there's 159 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 1: a lot of laughing. We are feeling and experiencing things 160 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 1: that that's inexplicable. It's more than the voice, that's more 161 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: than the story. All the lifetime people have invested in 162 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:34,439 Speaker 1: the in the music is taking place there. So it's 163 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 1: a powerful thing. It is not you know, it's not playing, 164 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 1: it's not playing the list. But I get why you 165 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:46,680 Speaker 1: would do something extraordinary in the middle of the day 166 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: to wake people up, you know, to the fact that 167 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:52,680 Speaker 1: they're in a show whatever time. I get why you did. 168 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: And you know, I haven't crowd served yet, so I 169 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: might have jumped out in the audience. Carry me, carry 170 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: me and uh, and that could have gone wrong. But 171 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 1: testing them that way, I understand why you go. You know, 172 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,599 Speaker 1: if I play this show to a dead audience, to 173 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 1: people who are distracted and uninterested, it's gonna harm me. 174 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: It's gonna make me cynical, it's gonna make it harder 175 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: for me to do the next show. So I'm I'm gonna. 176 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: So the two things you do is you hold your 177 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 1: breath and and do it, or you go, let's shake 178 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: them up. And sometimes that works. Sometimes you get pressy 179 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: people out there who you know, think you should behave 180 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: just this way. But um, but it's all okay. However 181 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,079 Speaker 1: they whatever they write, however they act, it's it's all 182 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 1: right as long as I reached that one person. I 183 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: know there's one person out there who came for something powerful, 184 00:11:55,040 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: some healing, some direction, and and I know it's not 185 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: like I experienced it when they do, but I have 186 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: faith that they're there, and that's why I can get 187 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: some pleasure out of having to go to Florida. I'm 188 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: playing at the Taco Standard. The song writer postables. Okay, 189 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 1: so you know you have a very analytical perspective. You 190 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: understand what you're doing when you hit it out of 191 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: the park, to use a baseball metaphor, are you frustrated 192 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: that you're not reaching more people? You had that moment 193 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 1: the end of the seventies early eighties where everybody in 194 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: America was paying attention to you. Do you get frustrated 195 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: that now you're doing great stuff and not as many 196 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: people are aware of it. Yeah, sometimes, Bob, I do. 197 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:51,319 Speaker 1: Sometimes I feel sorry for myself and uh and and 198 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: I feel a little angry or irked like so, but 199 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 1: why you know, well, you do only feel upset if 200 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 1: there was somebody else getting the attention who was not 201 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: really who. You know. It comes down to ego, but 202 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: it also comes under money. So if my ego said 203 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: I am so much better than that guy, why can't 204 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 1: I at least get the same stage he has to 205 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: get a chance to be heard? Um And a lot 206 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 1: of that thinking just just you know, I just went 207 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: I think things have a time, and I think that, Um, 208 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 1: you know, if there's a time where I'll be served 209 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 1: well by being in front of a larger audience and 210 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 1: I could do my job taking care of them, then 211 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: I'll be in front of a bigger audience. I think 212 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: I accept the fact that I am. I like to 213 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 1: just say unique, unusual, um, but I accept the fact 214 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:06,559 Speaker 1: that I'm not and have never been particularly homogenized. I 215 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: don't want to say normal, but you know what I mean. 216 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 1: So that's harder to for people, all the people involved, 217 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 1: and to put that person in front of a large audience. 218 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: But um so the answers. Yes, it's been frustrating sometimes, 219 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 1: but I feel I really feel like if that's where 220 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: I want to go, I'll aim there and make the 221 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: things around me take me there. Okay, to what degree 222 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: are you a student of the game. Let's start with Okay, 223 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: you're not really caring about reaching everybody. But are you saying, well, 224 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: I was in this town a year ago, and my 225 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: numbers are up or down and I and that affects 226 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: what I'm playing. Oh yeah, I don't know anything about 227 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: that stuff. The unfortunate thing is I don't think my 228 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: manager did either. So now I think I have a 229 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: crew around me. It's it is very sophisticated and so 230 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: whatever those numbers are, hopefully, um we'll be building it. 231 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: You know. Let me tell you that when I'd sell 232 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: out a place right and I didn't want to play 233 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: the really big places I kept it. I said, we're 234 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: not gonna ever go bigger than five thousands. We're gonna 235 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: try to keep this intimate thing right. And I had 236 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: I had, um, you know, constructed the thing as I 237 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: wanted it to be. And I had these rules, which 238 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: was to never go out and look at the audience 239 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: while they're pibly it. But one day at a winery, 240 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: I went out and watched them coming in, and I 241 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: said to myself, Wow, I can't relate to any of 242 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: those people, right, And how can I say, you know, 243 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: you don't know what their dressed, who they are. But 244 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: I just went, oh, my audience, it's not my peer group. 245 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: And realize that when you have a large audience, probably 246 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: seventy percent of them are coming for a very different 247 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: reason than that wonderful core group who comes to you know, 248 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: like like vampires, we get really high off each other 249 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: the blood and intoxicated. The rest of those people come 250 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: to watch, and they're good numbers and they fill the seats, 251 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: but they don't give you what you come for. And 252 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: and I suspect, you know, I'm I I think quite 253 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: horribly that something in my mind when I don't want 254 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: them to come anymore, I only want the true religion, 255 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: the people who need to be there, the people who 256 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: you know are so invested in the music, not the 257 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: people who came because their cousin likes joking the love 258 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: or related to the promoter. All those people and um 259 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 1: and and that's okay. You know, I understand why I 260 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: why I did that, But I think it's so ego based. 261 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:16,120 Speaker 1: I think I think now everybody's invited, and the more people, 262 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 1: the more bean Besia will grow, the more people who come, 263 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 1: the more love and good will, the more I live forever, 264 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: Like every artist wants to live forever. Everybody wants to 265 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 1: live forever. If you see me play, I'll be in 266 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 1: your memory and and you pass that. You know these 267 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:46,400 Speaker 1: are very very personal things. They'll talk about it very much. 268 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: That's the way I'll be with you always, because you'll 269 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 1: tell the story to your kid or your Granted, I 270 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: saw her at the Da da Da Da Da da da. 271 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: And you know, if you last a hundred years after 272 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 1: you die, then you've done a good job for the 273 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: legend of Rickingly Jones, whatever that legend is going to 274 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 1: end up being. But also in a very practical basis, 275 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: I won't be seventy years old and have to work 276 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: in order to pay my mortgage, and that would be 277 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: really great. Okay, let's go back to the money. Uh 278 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,639 Speaker 1: Is it that just you know, living now, a revenue 279 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 1: from recordings and publishing is not as high or did 280 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: you blow the money and you regret it. I regret 281 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,159 Speaker 1: blowing it, but I had to add sick people in 282 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 1: my family and had to pay for them. That's how 283 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 1: I spent them. Um. I was also devastated in that 284 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:57,439 Speaker 1: horrible crash of two thousand and eight. Um, So I 285 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 1: didn't I did bad things, and I took for granted 286 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: that I'd always have a little bit of money and 287 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,159 Speaker 1: I lost it. And when I lost it and the 288 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 1: i r S put a lean on everything I had, 289 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 1: I could not get back on my feet. And I 290 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:16,880 Speaker 1: was a rock star. I didn't know anything about anything 291 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 1: about anything that I did with money, taxes, how to 292 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:24,640 Speaker 1: pay bills. It was a rough and hard lesson to 293 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: lose everything and find you know, all those nice people 294 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,199 Speaker 1: at the bank don't give a shit about you. You know, 295 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:34,120 Speaker 1: they're not going to give me a loan or help 296 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: you do that just because you used to make millions 297 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: of dollars buddy, can you spare it? Do? So? All 298 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: those lessons that so many others were learning at the time, 299 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: I also learned. Um. I of course I regret blowing it, 300 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: but I think it's not hoky. I think I've learned 301 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:59,160 Speaker 1: amazing lessons. You know, I was. I was taken right 302 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,120 Speaker 1: to the top and immediately like a dream come true, 303 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 1: like an angel took me there and didn't have time 304 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: to learn very many lessons on my way. I've learned 305 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 1: a lot of lessons now. And um, I didn't have 306 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 1: any respect for money. I thought it was ghost to 307 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: care about money, and I threw money around but everybody 308 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 1: dinner for about five years every where I went. Um, 309 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,119 Speaker 1: I have a healthy respect for it now because I 310 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,880 Speaker 1: know that you know, if you don't have anybody, you'll 311 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: meet a lot of kind people along the way, But 312 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:39,199 Speaker 1: it's much it's much better to have the money to 313 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 1: pay your own way. UM. So I think if I aim, 314 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,199 Speaker 1: I'll hit the mark. I just have to decide what 315 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: I'm aiming at and not be um guilty about having 316 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 1: success succeeding. And you know, I also try to not 317 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:07,199 Speaker 1: be clear because I like a little bit of fuzzy thinking, 318 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: so that other things can take shape than just what 319 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 1: you you were going to plan. But at this age, 320 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: I think it's not the worst thing to start to 321 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:21,199 Speaker 1: have clear plans about how it will be, whether it 322 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 1: will be, how long it will be. So that's that's 323 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: what I'm living by the railroad tract. So that's what 324 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: it's like. Now, Okay, let's stay with the money just 325 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: one more time. Uh, do you still get royalties assuming 326 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,400 Speaker 1: there are people listening to your music from recordings from 327 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 1: from publishing or did you sell those rights? I sold 328 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 1: some of the rights. Um, but I do still get 329 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,199 Speaker 1: royalties more than you. You'd be surprised you I do 330 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: okay on those roads. If I didn't have those rotaries, 331 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 1: I'd be shipped out of Look, and that happened because 332 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 1: as I was just going getting signed at Warner Brothers 333 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:02,879 Speaker 1: are in the six month. I wrote about it a 334 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:08,199 Speaker 1: little in the book. But um, somebody said with it Ivan, 335 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 1: I don't know, said you have to have your own publishing, 336 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:17,679 Speaker 1: don't sell your publishing. That's how you'll make all your money. 337 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,120 Speaker 1: And at that time, it's just it's a concept. Right, 338 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: where would that all that money come? Well, that was 339 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:30,119 Speaker 1: exactly the truth. The publishing. Um, you know, I sold 340 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,679 Speaker 1: it for not very much money. UM to pay up 341 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,919 Speaker 1: that I r S did. Um, but I kept some 342 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: of it. And and so I'm doing I'm okay, okay, 343 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: tell me about that guilt over success. Well, there's so 344 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: many ways that it manifests. But my family, it's not 345 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 1: that they were ne'er do wells, but they could. None 346 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:59,159 Speaker 1: of them seem to ever get a break. No, And 347 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: so when I first, you know, walked into the golden 348 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: fields of the success that I had wanted to have, 349 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 1: I felt really bad that none of them had anything. 350 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: Nor my friends who were also talented musicians, but nobody 351 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 1: seemed to be interested in in their songs. I tried 352 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 1: very hard to bring sal Bernardi and his songs get 353 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: Warner Brothers design, and they didn't want anything to do 354 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,400 Speaker 1: with them. When I see really successful people and their 355 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 1: friends all getting signed, like how they do that? Because 356 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:42,120 Speaker 1: I get um, But it manifests really terribly. UM. It 357 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 1: weighs besides self the obvious self destructive things, the subtle 358 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 1: ways should trip yourself up. Now, maybe I'm just an asshole, 359 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 1: but I rather think that, you know, sometimes i'd meet 360 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 1: somebody who might have been an important person to be 361 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: and I would be thirty minutes late to the meeting, 362 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: or I meet somebody else and talk to them, like, 363 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: you know, I remember meeting Um Peter Case and Victoria Williams. 364 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: They were wanted to talk to me about producing a song, 365 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,119 Speaker 1: a sal Bernardi song, to speak of it, think of it. 366 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,200 Speaker 1: And I went into the meeting and I said, well, 367 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 1: first of all, if we do this song, we have 368 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: to do it this way. And then and I just 369 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: went just like and they were just set to me listen. 370 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 1: Victoria and I are very close friends, and I said 371 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: to her a couple of years ago, I just I 372 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: want to apologize for that meeting forty years ago. I'm 373 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 1: so sorry that I I was so nervous and I 374 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: just didn't know how to work with other people. I 375 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:02,120 Speaker 1: thought I had a vision and I I wasn't cut 376 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,680 Speaker 1: out to be a producer at that time. And she 377 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 1: she just hugged me, you know. So. But anyway, there 378 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: are a lot of ways you can alienate people and 379 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,119 Speaker 1: make sure that you don't go any further and even 380 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 1: destroy yourself. There was always that feeling of they're gonna 381 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: find out I'm here. I've read other people excuse me. 382 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 1: I've seen other people say that about their careers, but 383 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: that is a very real thing. You really feel like 384 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:33,159 Speaker 1: at any moment, some writers going to say she can't really. 385 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,880 Speaker 1: Of course they did, but she can't really sing and 386 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: she's da and everybody's gonna go, oh, we believe you, 387 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: and we're not even gonna go see your listen. So 388 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,640 Speaker 1: I think that that probably went up until the small 389 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:54,879 Speaker 1: gap where older age started and I went, that's fine, 390 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 1: you guys do it everyone. As long as somebody books 391 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 1: me somewhere and I can play, I'll show you what 392 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 1: I am. And and you know, if you like, if 393 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: you don't like it, I tell you the truth though 394 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,640 Speaker 1: that you know I said, I think I said when 395 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,120 Speaker 1: I sat down, I didn't care about that one guy anywhere, 396 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:16,199 Speaker 1: but he's always with me. I think that that one critic. 397 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:20,400 Speaker 1: I think he comes from the talking Heads camp. He's 398 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: one of those shipsters in he comes from New York City, 399 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: and everything he knows is, you know, there's certainly no 400 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:36,880 Speaker 1: room for emotion or flawed female. It's male, and it's 401 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 1: in this place, and it rocks, and it's and if 402 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:44,920 Speaker 1: it's not that, it's second rate, and and and I'm 403 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,400 Speaker 1: always trying to talk to him and say, there, did 404 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: I change your mind? See? And he's always the critic 405 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 1: that I that I never win, and I like to 406 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: think that I'm setting him down, but I don't know 407 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: if I'll ever really set them down. Let's go back 408 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: to Peter and Victoria. You apologize for behavior. How did 409 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 1: you learn to get along with people? And it's one 410 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: thing to get along with people. The other half you 411 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,439 Speaker 1: said was I thought I was right. Do you still 412 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: think you're right? Or are you open to more opinions. 413 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 1: I think my creative ideas are fantastic and they're unique. Um, 414 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: but what I started doing in the early nineties or 415 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: something was just setting my ideas aside totally and getting 416 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 1: other people to do their ideas and being a guest 417 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 1: with them. I think that's the worst thing I can do. 418 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,879 Speaker 1: I think I have a clear vision, and when it 419 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 1: comes to me, that's what I should do. I mean 420 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,919 Speaker 1: to not spend one more day apologizing to people because 421 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 1: I have a clear vision and know what to do. 422 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 1: If you want to work with me, there'll be places 423 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 1: where I'll ask you to participate. But if I see 424 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: the whole thing and know what it should be, that's 425 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,680 Speaker 1: gonna be. That's your job. You're in the orchestra. Sometimes 426 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:22,640 Speaker 1: you're in a rock band where you get to play 427 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 1: the solo o the times you're not. This is my 428 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 1: stage and this is how I do my work. And 429 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: that took a long time because when people say mean 430 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 1: things about in the Meka, I mean, say she's a 431 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: bit nobody wants to work with you, they don't like you. 432 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: It hurts the little kid in me. You know, I'm 433 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: trying to make friends, try really hard doing all this music. 434 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: It's been all this money is come and you know, 435 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,479 Speaker 1: so it's not like going into a little room. I'm 436 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: not the univox, you know, trying reaching out to make friends. 437 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 1: And when my best efforts are met with you know. 438 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: And and one reason is because it's just fun to 439 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 1: say anything about famous people. And I get that, you know, 440 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: you don't never have to look them in the eye. 441 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 1: And and but back in the eighties, when I was 442 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: very big and could do anything I wanted, one of 443 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: the things I really wanted was to make friends. And 444 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: I sacrificed my work in order to try try to 445 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: get people like me. I think I did some interesting work, 446 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: but it wasn't my work? Um, So an answer to 447 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 1: that question, if I recognize somebody's a great anything and 448 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: the ranger, he's a player, he's got something I need, 449 00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 1: then I'll open the door for us to talk to 450 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: one another. But what I don't do anymore is set 451 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: down what I have. Um. That might have been a 452 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 1: girl lesson. I don't know, but I feel fine. You know. 453 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 1: I know it's taken a lifetime. I'm sixty seven years old. Um, 454 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: but we get to see kids who are twenty. They're creating, uh, 455 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: such a more eat you know, it's not even like 456 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 1: it's not an afterthought. It is an equal world. Um. 457 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 1: But in my generation, it's just simply wasn't. And I 458 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 1: you can hear the way I talked. I'm emphatic and excited, 459 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 1: but that's just so full of love. And there are 460 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 1: some men, not so much women, but some people who 461 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: are just like WHOA, they don't like me and are 462 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: there not comfortable with me and and so working only 463 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: with men and all that sexual tension that's always going 464 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: on that you have to manage if you're a female 465 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: boss while getting them to play and define you as 466 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: a fellow musician. That's how I wanted to be a 467 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 1: fellow musician and not a girl, and a lot that's 468 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: a lot of psychic energy. You know how much of 469 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: this is just having lived and have experiences these insights 470 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: or to what degree might have been through therapy. Did 471 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: you go to therapy and what has that helped or 472 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 1: not help? Well? Therapies for private issues probably you know, 473 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: things that happen to do with my family, and maybe 474 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 1: early on, you know, other issues, But I can't see 475 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 1: it actually extending into the wider world though it at 476 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 1: churning must have. So did you see that? I got 477 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: that point. But did you see the therapist? You still 478 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 1: see a therapist? Oh yeah, I've seen a therapist for 479 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 1: twenty years phone because we're in different towns. But he's 480 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: it's good, it's a good guy. Okay, let's go back 481 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 1: something he said earlier. You said, well, you know, if 482 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: you expect me in the red shirt, I'm not gonna 483 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 1: wear that. I complete that the same way. And it's 484 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 1: and I think it's the sixties, okay, And everybody sold 485 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: out in the eighties and I didn't sell out. You know, 486 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 1: I'm even still wearing the clothes from the sixties. But 487 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 1: to what degree. Were you always that person not necessarily 488 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: needing to put other people down from being behind you, 489 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 1: but not really a member of the group, outsider thinking 490 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: for yourself. Well, uh, you know, all my life, I've 491 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 1: been an outsider on the playground. That's that's just simply 492 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 1: the way that it was. It wasn't my choosing, but 493 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 1: that's that's who I am here on stage. People like that, 494 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 1: They like that energy. That's a place where a weirdo 495 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 1: can find a home because if you're creative and you 496 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 1: have that unique energy, then people can watch you from 497 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 1: a distance and enjoy it. If you're sitting next to 498 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: him on the bus, it might make um a little uncomfortable. Um, 499 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: I think you're asking me a bigger question though that 500 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: I'm not actually getting my hands around. Would you ask 501 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 1: it again? Well, I mean, I think you've hit the 502 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: point of always being an outsider and the tension of 503 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,960 Speaker 1: wanting to be yourself but by the same token, wanting 504 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 1: to be included. I think we've sort of nailed that. 505 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: Let's let's go back to others. Something else you said 506 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 1: earlier about being a woman in the business. Yes, you 507 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: want to be taken uh seriously as an equal with 508 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 1: other people you're playing with. But expand that, what's it 509 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 1: like being a woman dealing with a wreck? Good company? 510 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 1: Being on the road? I mean this is we live 511 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:04,959 Speaker 1: in a different ror now with mobile phones. Everybody's got 512 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,359 Speaker 1: a camera everywhere. But you were on the road. Did 513 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 1: you live like the men? Did you go out drinking? 514 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,840 Speaker 1: Did you drug? Did you have sex with different people? 515 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,840 Speaker 1: Did you stay home and you know, in your hotel 516 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: room and say no, I want none of that. So UM, 517 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 1: the answer to that question changes with each new tour 518 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 1: and reinvention of our growth. You know, Um, when I 519 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:37,760 Speaker 1: first started out, I was the boss and I wanted 520 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,280 Speaker 1: to but I didn't know that yet, And I always 521 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 1: wondered why the boys didn't call me to go out 522 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: with them when they went to dinner. And they'd all 523 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 1: go to have dinner, but I'd be home in the hotel. 524 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,280 Speaker 1: I feel sorry for myself to look and the big 525 00:34:55,320 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: star and I'm at the loneliest person of all. Um. 526 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:07,320 Speaker 1: Then the next subsequent tours, I understood, no matter how 527 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 1: friendly we are when we're on tour, I'm the boss, 528 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 1: I'm the employer, and very few of them will cross 529 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 1: the line to um to be friendly. They're just more 530 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 1: comfortable with each other. This this goes on still somewhat, 531 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 1: but not as much. Let's pitch gears a second. We spoke, 532 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 1: as I say, about three or four months back, and 533 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 1: you were very warm and excited about the fact that 534 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,360 Speaker 1: you had this new romance with a guy in New Orleans. 535 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:54,799 Speaker 1: Is that still happening? It is my romance. Um, I'm 536 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 1: just gonna chew this. It's all right to talk about 537 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,000 Speaker 1: it a little bit. You know, he's very private, he 538 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:05,880 Speaker 1: doesn't want to discussed. I think it's important to protect 539 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 1: family and friends. This same thing of people you don't 540 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,959 Speaker 1: know knowing what you're doing and caring about it. It's 541 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 1: overwhelming to people at first. So and then also they 542 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,319 Speaker 1: asked this question later, which you know you might have 543 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 1: broken up, your heart's devastated and there, and there's not 544 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: something you want to talk about. But people feel they 545 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 1: have a right to talk to you about it because 546 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:38,839 Speaker 1: it's part of fame. So I will say yes, at 547 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:44,480 Speaker 1: this late age, I've met someone. I hope that we 548 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:49,840 Speaker 1: continue to be to evolve into whatever it is you 549 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:54,040 Speaker 1: can evolve into it this age. But I think it's 550 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,919 Speaker 1: pretty important to keep it, keep it private. For him, 551 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,839 Speaker 1: but also for me. So what's the key to being 552 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 1: involved with Rickie Lee Jones? Do you mean on a 553 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 1: personal level? Yeah, both romantically and as a friend. Boy, 554 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:13,040 Speaker 1: I think that it seems so much reflected in his eyes, 555 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:18,919 Speaker 1: like he's comes from a very different social place than me. 556 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:25,040 Speaker 1: We share music, love of music's I got a business guy, 557 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:31,840 Speaker 1: a bunch of sports on the weekends. Sometimes, who are you? Um? 558 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,279 Speaker 1: I think it's what it takes to be a friend 559 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 1: with me, is what it takes to be with anybody 560 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:41,920 Speaker 1: who's patience and kindness and as long as you resort 561 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:48,080 Speaker 1: to kindness when you're confused instead of aggression. Sometimes I 562 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,359 Speaker 1: want to challenge. That's the moment I don't challenge and 563 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 1: I totally surrender. I have a totally different technique now 564 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 1: than I had when I was a kid, which is 565 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,520 Speaker 1: to do the opposite of what I think, what my 566 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:04,800 Speaker 1: feelings say, do, to not be so patient to wait. 567 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 1: In my case, I'm a so insecure emotionally, and I'm 568 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 1: always watching for the hamered to Paul or whatever it is, 569 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,520 Speaker 1: and and then react to things that might not be 570 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,000 Speaker 1: going on. It might be going on, but they'll pass. 571 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,360 Speaker 1: So I've actually read read in a song called Patients 572 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:32,279 Speaker 1: and Kindness. That's a really beautiful song, and it's it's 573 00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 1: about getting outside of your own skin, even though people 574 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:40,360 Speaker 1: might be hurting your feelings, and finding out what's happening 575 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:45,040 Speaker 1: to them instead. And if we look after the love 576 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:51,680 Speaker 1: the beloved before us, always, we'll win. As long as 577 00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 1: they're also looking out for the beloved first always, we'll 578 00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:01,480 Speaker 1: both win. Once we start to look after our own interests. 579 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:04,359 Speaker 1: I'm scared. I think I'm not gonna call you. I'm 580 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,000 Speaker 1: going to play a game, and then then we're fucked. 581 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:12,440 Speaker 1: But if we think, how is the other feeling does 582 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,279 Speaker 1: he needs space, says he needs me to call him 583 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:27,120 Speaker 1: and set my And I'm also strengthened by this willpower control. 584 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 1: I think at my age, this is a you know, 585 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:35,440 Speaker 1: we're not gonna have children, so you know, we're creating 586 00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:40,200 Speaker 1: roads and trenches and trees and forests and things for 587 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:44,120 Speaker 1: us to do as we communicate with one another. And 588 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:48,080 Speaker 1: the main thing, as I always tended, I've always made 589 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 1: people my world. Um, I'm pretty sure this person just 590 00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,759 Speaker 1: won't be able to tolerate that. And my total attention. 591 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:05,799 Speaker 1: It's a lot of serious attention. So I'm you might say, 592 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:10,640 Speaker 1: I'm learning to date. I'm learning to put somebody in 593 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:14,480 Speaker 1: a place in my world instead of making them my world. 594 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,360 Speaker 1: So that's a lot more than I expected to say. 595 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:20,480 Speaker 1: But I think it's good to say that out loud, 596 00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 1: because I'm sure I'm not the only girl who's made 597 00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:32,000 Speaker 1: men a man her world, right, Jennis Choplin, And to learn, No, 598 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:38,320 Speaker 1: I'm I'm worth and whole, and I don't need to 599 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:42,640 Speaker 1: shrink myself and make you the world. So you'll be 600 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:46,160 Speaker 1: You'll know how much important you are. You know how 601 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,000 Speaker 1: important you are. I think so much of my motivation 602 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,000 Speaker 1: with men has been because I felt sorry for them 603 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 1: since I was a little kid. And when you know what, 604 00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 1: I'm gonna just, I'll cut my arm off so you 605 00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,120 Speaker 1: can pick it up and shot back on you what 606 00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:07,360 Speaker 1: I mean. I just And finally, I you know. And 607 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,239 Speaker 1: it's not easy. I don't have very many skills or 608 00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:16,800 Speaker 1: habits with this idea, but I am good, I am whole. 609 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:26,279 Speaker 1: I don't need anybody. I'd like to have friends, and 610 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:30,720 Speaker 1: I'd like people to be true and loving and other 611 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:36,840 Speaker 1: than that, it's it's okay if I can't. If I 612 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:42,279 Speaker 1: they're just this this thing my mother did once and 613 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,160 Speaker 1: I don't know why it had a profound effect on me, 614 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:50,040 Speaker 1: but when I was really little, she said something like, 615 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:55,719 Speaker 1: you you mustn't hurt his feelings, and so I would 616 00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:59,520 Speaker 1: really go over backwards to try to make sure that 617 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:04,000 Speaker 1: nobody was getting hurt by me, even if that meant, 618 00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,480 Speaker 1: you know, I had to walk with somebody when I'm 619 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:11,160 Speaker 1: really little that I didn't really like, or are they 620 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:14,799 Speaker 1: smelled bad or whatever it was that I didn't like, 621 00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:18,799 Speaker 1: I would sacrifice how I felt so they would be happy. 622 00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:25,239 Speaker 1: That is what I did all my life, and I 623 00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:28,399 Speaker 1: think I'm not doing that now, and I think it's 624 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:34,680 Speaker 1: largely because the person I care about first is totally intact, 625 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:40,240 Speaker 1: finally on his own, and so I didn't pick somebody 626 00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:46,600 Speaker 1: who needed me to save them, and that's the keys. 627 00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:51,760 Speaker 1: For some reason, I was attracted to somebody who was whole, 628 00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:58,840 Speaker 1: and uh, we're both at this later years in life 629 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:03,160 Speaker 1: that because I mean, I see, I'm not that it's 630 00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,600 Speaker 1: trouble free, but I think for the most part, these 631 00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:10,400 Speaker 1: these issues are clear that you know, this is our age. 632 00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,080 Speaker 1: That's what we'd like to do. I'd like to travel more. 633 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:17,839 Speaker 1: I'd like to be a little more carefree. Um, and 634 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,360 Speaker 1: that's the life I've lived because you know, I travel 635 00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:22,239 Speaker 1: and I see the world. I'd love to do that 636 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:26,160 Speaker 1: with somebody, but that might not be this guy. But 637 00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:30,959 Speaker 1: whatever it is, we're able to be together. I think 638 00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,600 Speaker 1: we can have a happy time for as long as 639 00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:39,640 Speaker 1: it's decreed. I know that sounds really noncommittal, but that's 640 00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:42,439 Speaker 1: what I gotta do. Uh. In the past, you talk 641 00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:46,880 Speaker 1: about wanting this kindness, etcetera. In your past relationships. Have 642 00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:50,560 Speaker 1: you been volatile? Have you always been kind? Have you 643 00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:56,840 Speaker 1: been aggressive at times? Yeah? Volatile? Are you kidding you 644 00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:03,759 Speaker 1: read the book? Um? Yes, my parents My family were 645 00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:10,120 Speaker 1: very emotional, demonstrative people. And my mother had a terrible flaw, 646 00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:14,400 Speaker 1: which is she she could not apologize, and if she 647 00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:18,200 Speaker 1: got mad, she stayed mad. She didn't seem to have 648 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:21,799 Speaker 1: a door to come out of being mad gracefully. So 649 00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:25,960 Speaker 1: she does. She percolate for days and it and kind 650 00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:29,840 Speaker 1: of dwindle off. As a child, you had to watch 651 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:34,160 Speaker 1: her cues if if you're back on the integat and 652 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:40,400 Speaker 1: and so really, I didn't know how to fight with people. 653 00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,640 Speaker 1: You know, if there was a disagreement, it was over, 654 00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:47,759 Speaker 1: I'm out. I didn't know how to, well, we have 655 00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,399 Speaker 1: a disagreement and then we'll work it out. And as 656 00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:54,440 Speaker 1: I did, her later life goes on. So when I 657 00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:59,240 Speaker 1: was a kid, at any minute, life would disintegrate. Love 658 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,319 Speaker 1: there's always been challenged with with you know, with all 659 00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:08,320 Speaker 1: the weapons out in every disagreement, and that I just 660 00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:13,680 Speaker 1: simply didn't know another way. And if I there's a 661 00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:18,279 Speaker 1: famous story of me, unfortunately in Arizona, Tippy. I was 662 00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:22,719 Speaker 1: playing my my hometown for the first time, um in 663 00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:26,479 Speaker 1: my career. And you know, if you read the book, 664 00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:29,160 Speaker 1: you'll see how many terrible things had happened in Phoenix. 665 00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:33,640 Speaker 1: One was my brother's accident, so it was trauma. It's 666 00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:38,360 Speaker 1: all there. And I'm also bored and Auntsie before the 667 00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:43,640 Speaker 1: sound check, and they've made a very dangerous backstage area. 668 00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:48,480 Speaker 1: Everything's just propped up. They have folding tables with mirrors 669 00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:55,879 Speaker 1: leaning against either curtains or temporary thing, temporary things. Yeah, 670 00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:59,560 Speaker 1: mosts at a door and I said blah blah blah 671 00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:01,680 Speaker 1: blah blah, and I walked out. I didn't even slam 672 00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:07,200 Speaker 1: the door. The door and all the mirrors fell off 673 00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:12,160 Speaker 1: the table and broke. Now there are a couple of 674 00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:17,000 Speaker 1: things about that, which was my my stage manager j D. 675 00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:21,279 Speaker 1: Dolan was standing there, Ricky, what's the matter? But it 676 00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:24,239 Speaker 1: had been a total accident. But now I felt like 677 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:29,680 Speaker 1: I had to um stand for what it what it happened, 678 00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:36,560 Speaker 1: fucking walked away. And that's funny. That thing became very 679 00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:42,840 Speaker 1: a famous thing, which she did in Phoenix and the thing. Um, 680 00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:46,320 Speaker 1: if I had a little bit of ability, I would oh. 681 00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:49,439 Speaker 1: I could never say I'm sorry, or I could never 682 00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:54,120 Speaker 1: have explained. I could never look like I had accidents 683 00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:58,120 Speaker 1: happened to be um. I just didn't know how to 684 00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:04,040 Speaker 1: be gracious. And and that graciousness comes from a power 685 00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:08,320 Speaker 1: that you have inside where nothing is at stake. You 686 00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:12,600 Speaker 1: can you know, you can be kind and courteous to anybody. 687 00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:15,800 Speaker 1: There are people who will be kind to that curtious, 688 00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:18,000 Speaker 1: that guy, but not to that guy. It doesn't they 689 00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:22,280 Speaker 1: lose something if they say I'm so sorry, I apologize. 690 00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:27,880 Speaker 1: And it took me a long time to you know, 691 00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:32,879 Speaker 1: I didn't tell j D. I didn't I didn't do that. Um. 692 00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:36,720 Speaker 1: But it didn't help because all the crew people heard 693 00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,759 Speaker 1: it had to clean it up. And so the legend began. 694 00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:43,000 Speaker 1: Tell me more about your insecurity and do you ever 695 00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:45,600 Speaker 1: feel secure? Is like, if you're in your home and 696 00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:47,799 Speaker 1: no one else is there, then you yourself. But as 697 00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,200 Speaker 1: soon as you integrate with the world, you become insecure. 698 00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:53,920 Speaker 1: I think for me, the answer to that question is 699 00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:57,520 Speaker 1: not possible because you'd have to be secure to know 700 00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:01,319 Speaker 1: if you're insecure, you know, you're just you're the way 701 00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:05,000 Speaker 1: that you are at all times. I think we all 702 00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:14,439 Speaker 1: feel more comfortable when we're by ourselves. But secure, yeah, 703 00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:20,640 Speaker 1: I think I'm I think I'm very secure now. Actually, um, 704 00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:25,520 Speaker 1: I recognize that I have the ability, like anybody, to 705 00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:27,719 Speaker 1: make the world a better place for me being in it. 706 00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,840 Speaker 1: So whatever vehicle it is, whether we're talking together or 707 00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:36,680 Speaker 1: I'm meeting the insurance guy, or I feel okay about 708 00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:42,239 Speaker 1: my part in it. Sometimes though, now that I think 709 00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,719 Speaker 1: of it, there are times where you know, my mother 710 00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:49,960 Speaker 1: had agmoraphobia. Friends came over, she would run and hide 711 00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:53,400 Speaker 1: in her in her room until they was really rude. 712 00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:57,960 Speaker 1: But there are times where I feel a little overwhelmed 713 00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:05,399 Speaker 1: by in person and in person meetings. This step is fun, 714 00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:09,480 Speaker 1: but if we were all here together, it would be 715 00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:13,560 Speaker 1: really hard about friends. You know the nature of the businesses, 716 00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:16,960 Speaker 1: you know a million people, But to what to we 717 00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:19,120 Speaker 1: are you in contact or see people? And we're in 718 00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:21,360 Speaker 1: the covid era, so it's a little crazy on a 719 00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:23,719 Speaker 1: regular basis. Is you're like somebody you talked to our 720 00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:27,239 Speaker 1: email with every day, or and you have a lot 721 00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:31,320 Speaker 1: of people looking for you and you instigated or people 722 00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:34,200 Speaker 1: looking for you, or really you're kind of isolated unless 723 00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:37,840 Speaker 1: you reach out or go out. Boy. That used to 724 00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:40,400 Speaker 1: be the case when I lived in Los Angeles, so 725 00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:44,680 Speaker 1: totally isolated. Less I ship felt at at least of us. 726 00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:48,720 Speaker 1: I initiated some kind of contact, and it seemed there 727 00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:55,160 Speaker 1: that all contact was was status based like people. I 728 00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:58,120 Speaker 1: think it's true. People would call you back in the 729 00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:02,719 Speaker 1: order of how important you are in a larger framework, 730 00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:07,160 Speaker 1: and it was very hard to find friends. Now, I definitely. 731 00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:09,120 Speaker 1: I was just talking to my friend in New Mexico. 732 00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:17,560 Speaker 1: I have girlfriends now and boyfriends now and they called me. 733 00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:21,000 Speaker 1: I don't know why they didn't before, but they called 734 00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:25,040 Speaker 1: me now and I call them. I think I have friends. Yeah, 735 00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:30,080 Speaker 1: for sure, definitely have friends here. We play scrabble and 736 00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:34,200 Speaker 1: we go have coffees together. We play scrabble, a terrible 737 00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:38,000 Speaker 1: game we do. Okay, wait, wait, wait, that all sounds good. 738 00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:39,799 Speaker 1: Why is it a terrible Why is it a terrible game? 739 00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:44,359 Speaker 1: You know, here's why. Because some people know a lot 740 00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:48,600 Speaker 1: more words than other people, and some people use the 741 00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:52,960 Speaker 1: book a lot more. Some people look at the book 742 00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,640 Speaker 1: even when they're putting down the words. That's why they're looking. 743 00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:00,239 Speaker 1: It's a fun game, but it but it's it's a 744 00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:03,239 Speaker 1: little bit long, a little tedious. Well, you know, as 745 00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:07,279 Speaker 1: we speak, there's this hot app core wordle Are you 746 00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:12,920 Speaker 1: familiar with that? Do you use it? Okay? Uh? As 747 00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:16,840 Speaker 1: you can play that one by yourself? But without to 748 00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:21,279 Speaker 1: what degree? Are you tech savvy the computer in the phone, etcetera? 749 00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:24,640 Speaker 1: I'm okay, I I have a little tolerance for it. 750 00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:27,920 Speaker 1: I could do some stuff. Okay, let's go back to 751 00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:31,200 Speaker 1: the music. How do you choose what songs to cover? 752 00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:35,920 Speaker 1: I think it's mostly impulsive, although I'm working on a 753 00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:39,960 Speaker 1: list right now with Rust Titleman, my old producer from 754 00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,600 Speaker 1: the first two records, that we're creating a list of 755 00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,799 Speaker 1: jazz songs that we're gonna start recording probably in a 756 00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:52,400 Speaker 1: couple of weeks um and where so whatever happens to 757 00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:54,920 Speaker 1: enter his mind of my mind in those two weeks 758 00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:57,120 Speaker 1: are the songs that will end up on the list, 759 00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:02,440 Speaker 1: and I picked them. I you know, I have a 760 00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:05,960 Speaker 1: feeling about some passage in it. I can see or 761 00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:13,120 Speaker 1: feel myself in the passage singing it. Um, And that's 762 00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:18,640 Speaker 1: usually it. But sometimes it's a little random, like I 763 00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:25,719 Speaker 1: did this song Bad Company. I always liked Bad Company 764 00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:29,319 Speaker 1: singing it love Bad Company, and that was the best 765 00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:31,680 Speaker 1: song I feel like make. I mean, I can't get 766 00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:33,600 Speaker 1: enough with it, but I always loved on the first 767 00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:36,840 Speaker 1: song on the second side, Bad Company. Yeah, that guy's 768 00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:41,760 Speaker 1: a great singer. And so I recorded Bad Company again 769 00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:46,120 Speaker 1: on a song with some jazzy kind of things um 770 00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:49,040 Speaker 1: that I hadn't really thought of doing before, and did 771 00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:52,840 Speaker 1: them because I thought of him at that month. And 772 00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:58,240 Speaker 1: and my credit and the records are good. But if 773 00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:02,280 Speaker 1: I could have, if I would have more control over 774 00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:06,680 Speaker 1: how I do things, I would think I was a 775 00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:10,400 Speaker 1: better musician. And that's why I'd like to have a 776 00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:14,840 Speaker 1: really good producer. I'd like to have somebody who's thinking 777 00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:18,480 Speaker 1: about the repertoire and thinking about the players and the 778 00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:21,440 Speaker 1: best time to do it and the best place. Whereas 779 00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:25,719 Speaker 1: I might be impulsive, that's not my forte. I'm a 780 00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:29,160 Speaker 1: I'm a creative thinker and a and a singer, but 781 00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:34,160 Speaker 1: organizing repertoire on people, no, I'm not so good at it. 782 00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:37,879 Speaker 1: So um, I'm excited to see how it comes out 783 00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:43,160 Speaker 1: with Russ and what songs. I think he'll create an atmosphere. 784 00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:46,040 Speaker 1: You know, I always veer I do the I do 785 00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:50,080 Speaker 1: the you know, the metal rock song with the trad 786 00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:54,520 Speaker 1: jazz song, and I enjoy that, but I would really 787 00:53:54,600 --> 00:54:00,720 Speaker 1: like to do an atmosphere and stay there, just one time, 788 00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:05,840 Speaker 1: to stay there. Okay. Uh. You know when back in 789 00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:08,000 Speaker 1: the old days when you work with Russ, he was 790 00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:11,200 Speaker 1: paid by Warner Brothers who had a record contract. Have 791 00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:15,040 Speaker 1: you maintained contact with Russell? Did reconnect with Russ? And 792 00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:19,399 Speaker 1: Russ is totally independent now who will pay for the recordings? Yeah? 793 00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:22,680 Speaker 1: We did not have contact. And in fact, I wondered 794 00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:25,800 Speaker 1: if he was mad at me, because sometimes I see 795 00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:32,000 Speaker 1: stuff on on the internet that he looked like. There's 796 00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:35,920 Speaker 1: this one thing where this woman was interviewing him. It 797 00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:39,239 Speaker 1: almost looked like a bridge club or something. She said, oh, 798 00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:44,680 Speaker 1: the Ricky Lee Jones and so wonderful and that in 799 00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:47,799 Speaker 1: pirates talk about that, and he just deflected it went 800 00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:51,360 Speaker 1: somewhere else, and I was like, oh, why would he 801 00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:55,320 Speaker 1: be mad at me? What is he still mad about pirates? 802 00:54:55,480 --> 00:55:00,600 Speaker 1: What happened? And I reached out to him. I think 803 00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:04,920 Speaker 1: I said, I tell you in this interview and whatever. 804 00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:08,480 Speaker 1: It was, the moment that we heard each other's voices, 805 00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:14,000 Speaker 1: it just went up and smoked. We were happy to 806 00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:16,560 Speaker 1: hear each other. I went to New York. We had 807 00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:18,480 Speaker 1: a lunch, went to New York, we had a dinner. 808 00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:24,280 Speaker 1: Little by little, we've come in close again. He's he's 809 00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:28,799 Speaker 1: you know, he's been there from the inception of rock 810 00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:31,560 Speaker 1: and roll. He was in a band called the The 811 00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:35,920 Speaker 1: Specters three or the Specters for it Phil Specter group. 812 00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:39,600 Speaker 1: He was sixteen in that and his big sister was 813 00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:43,560 Speaker 1: dating Phil Specter. He I'll ask him who wrote the 814 00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:51,280 Speaker 1: lyric to whatever Arlean bucks, Remember that clarinet song, um 815 00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:57,160 Speaker 1: da da da da da da da da da da 816 00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:04,920 Speaker 1: dah the uh uh, it's not a He knows the 817 00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:07,120 Speaker 1: name of the guy who didn't what his real name was. 818 00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:11,520 Speaker 1: Wearing bored. He's like, Wow, So I have an idea. 819 00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:15,359 Speaker 1: I'd like to do some recordings with Russ and make 820 00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:18,600 Speaker 1: them into a podcast. Besides the recordings she'll do it. 821 00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:25,520 Speaker 1: So we have vigorously redod our friendship. Okay, you're very 822 00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:28,919 Speaker 1: much a rock chick. How do you know all these 823 00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:33,200 Speaker 1: jazz songs? Well, before I was a rock chick, I 824 00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:35,799 Speaker 1: grew up in a house where my father listened to 825 00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:39,800 Speaker 1: jazz all the time. So the first before the eye 826 00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:43,000 Speaker 1: was alive, before the Beatles. Can you release that? So 827 00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:49,799 Speaker 1: the first music I heard Andy Williams, Harry Bellafante, that 828 00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:53,759 Speaker 1: was the pop stuff stuff happening. And then his collection 829 00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:59,240 Speaker 1: of Nina Simone, Billie Holiday, the Dorseys and Bitty Goodness 830 00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:03,080 Speaker 1: that to I and Duke Gallington it again. That's that's 831 00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:06,720 Speaker 1: where I grew up hearing before the Beatles came out, 832 00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:14,200 Speaker 1: So I had, you know, this unique synthesis of jazz 833 00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:18,080 Speaker 1: timing and straight ahead pop. Be the difference that pop 834 00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:22,320 Speaker 1: is you're right off the down beach blad rather see 835 00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:26,360 Speaker 1: you that little girl kind of count another man? And 836 00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:30,040 Speaker 1: in jazz, how would you do that too? Well, I'd 837 00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:35,760 Speaker 1: read you day, little girl. That'd be kind of blues. 838 00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:41,080 Speaker 1: But you know what I mean, I feel that think 839 00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:44,040 Speaker 1: in a different way. So the main thing is I 840 00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:49,160 Speaker 1: love music. So if it's a great song, even I'm 841 00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:51,480 Speaker 1: so load, so I can cry. You know, that's a 842 00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:54,760 Speaker 1: devastating songs. So if it's a great song, if it 843 00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:58,360 Speaker 1: moves me, that's the direction I grew in. Well, if 844 00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:01,400 Speaker 1: you read the book, you were infatuated with Beatles. Uh, 845 00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:03,640 Speaker 1: most of us love all the things they did. But 846 00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:05,640 Speaker 1: what are your one or two favorite Beatles song? What 847 00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:09,120 Speaker 1: is your favorite Beetle era? My favorite era is the 848 00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:15,720 Speaker 1: very beginning. Um, there's something spooky, spooky about the beginning. 849 00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:21,080 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just reverb, but there's something. Um, 850 00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:25,400 Speaker 1: you can feel this. You know, this is a bad 851 00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:29,640 Speaker 1: that reverberated into the world. Yes and not it was 852 00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:34,920 Speaker 1: big being crossby, but this music shook the world. And 853 00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:40,800 Speaker 1: so you can feel this synthesis. I know I've used 854 00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:45,520 Speaker 1: that word twice, but you can feel in um, the 855 00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:53,240 Speaker 1: very beginning of this power forming in those weird, simple 856 00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:57,280 Speaker 1: early songs. Later it's creative. I love it, don't get 857 00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:59,840 Speaker 1: me wrong. But the thing that goes to my heart, 858 00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:03,840 Speaker 1: I think it's always singing, and the singing on there 859 00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:15,280 Speaker 1: is a place well I can go, just goes into 860 00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:19,600 Speaker 1: my childhood heart. So how did you see the Beatles? 861 00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:23,440 Speaker 1: Have you seen Paul McCartney. Did you see George Harrison? No, 862 00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:27,240 Speaker 1: I haven't seen the Beatles. I was at a party 863 00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:29,680 Speaker 1: once with Ringo, but I didn't have the nerve to 864 00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:35,760 Speaker 1: go say hello, and I haven't. You know. I think 865 00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:37,880 Speaker 1: I'd be all right if I met one. You know, 866 00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:42,280 Speaker 1: sometimes you go, you'll melt, don't go near the fire, 867 00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:46,480 Speaker 1: but I'd like to. That would be a powerful thing 868 00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:50,800 Speaker 1: if I actually got to spend spend a minute with 869 00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:54,640 Speaker 1: the with the I need to know where what happened. No, 870 00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:58,680 Speaker 1: I haven't met him. Okay. Also in the book, You're 871 00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:01,480 Speaker 1: you're going to a lot of shows. You've seen a 872 01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:04,520 Speaker 1: lot of acts. What were the two best shows you 873 01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:07,440 Speaker 1: were ever? Rock? Too? Well, you know I've had a 874 01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:15,680 Speaker 1: lot of rock festivals. But um, the first time I 875 01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:22,280 Speaker 1: saw Simon and Garfuncle, it was a powerful thing. Um 876 01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:27,080 Speaker 1: there's no backdrop, you know, just a light on them. 877 01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:30,160 Speaker 1: And he had so much command over what he was doing. 878 01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:35,000 Speaker 1: And a time when you know, people are floppy hats 879 01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:39,400 Speaker 1: and playing long solos to Paul Simon at command of 880 01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:45,320 Speaker 1: his instrument and a little bit of message. A lot 881 01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:54,360 Speaker 1: of college, um patronizing things, but but deep in there 882 01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:59,360 Speaker 1: was such beautiful music and such command of the guitar 883 01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:05,680 Speaker 1: and and I was moved by that. I think, um 884 01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:11,520 Speaker 1: and I don't think. And then I saw Tom Waits 885 01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:18,200 Speaker 1: at the Pantageous and I've never seen a show like it. 886 01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:21,560 Speaker 1: He had a it was kind of theater. He had 887 01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:27,240 Speaker 1: a stripper open and he's saying standing on the corner 888 01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:33,360 Speaker 1: watching all the girls go by, and she was so 889 01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:37,600 Speaker 1: beautiful and I was like, WHOA, what's that? And he 890 01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:41,600 Speaker 1: kind of acted out the song so that that, you know, 891 01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:46,160 Speaker 1: that was really inspiring. I think it was just when 892 01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:48,760 Speaker 1: I met him, because he I couldn't have bought the ticket, 893 01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:52,360 Speaker 1: he gave, gave me a ticket, gave all the friends 894 01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:59,040 Speaker 1: from the Troubadour tickets, so I I think, you know, 895 01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:02,920 Speaker 1: probably were done. I'll go, WHOA you forgot that? You know? 896 01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:08,760 Speaker 1: Ella Fitzgerald or Sara of honor Frank. That's it, Frank 897 01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:14,240 Speaker 1: Sinatra at the Universal Amphitheater just before they closed it, 898 01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:20,680 Speaker 1: h Sarah vaughted open for him. And that's kind of 899 01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:24,160 Speaker 1: where I imprinted this thing where when I watched him, 900 01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:28,320 Speaker 1: there was nothing that he didn't know. He was in 901 01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:35,240 Speaker 1: command of everything, and everybody there was safe in Frank's arms. 902 01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:38,680 Speaker 1: He knew where he was going and you could just 903 01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:45,280 Speaker 1: sit back and go. And I went, that's that's the 904 01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:49,240 Speaker 1: place to grow up to be. That's what people seek. 905 01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:51,960 Speaker 1: They want you to know exactly where you're going and 906 01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:56,440 Speaker 1: take up there and um. So that was not only 907 01:02:57,040 --> 01:02:59,280 Speaker 1: you know, he was struggling a little bit, but it 908 01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:02,560 Speaker 1: didn't matter. He he and the and the orchestra and 909 01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:05,640 Speaker 1: the band were one. And that was another thing I 910 01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:11,000 Speaker 1: still covered, which is to have an ensemble that can 911 01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:13,800 Speaker 1: you know, go with you where you go, where you 912 01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:16,920 Speaker 1: don't have to follow their down be they follow yours. 913 01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:21,200 Speaker 1: That was when that was still happening in that kind 914 01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:23,880 Speaker 1: of music, and that you know, if you can have 915 01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:27,520 Speaker 1: that with a little bit of sexy rocket roll sometimes, 916 01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:30,680 Speaker 1: then you've got a unique and wonderful thing or not. 917 01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:40,840 Speaker 1: You mentioned Ross, you mentioned Tom Waits in your book. 918 01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:43,400 Speaker 1: You say you think people are only supposed to be 919 01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:46,080 Speaker 1: in your life at a certain time. Then they grow 920 01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:48,800 Speaker 1: one way, you go another way. So to what degree 921 01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:52,000 Speaker 1: all of these people from the past do you have 922 01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:55,960 Speaker 1: any contact with them? Do you reconnect with them if 923 01:03:55,960 --> 01:04:00,520 Speaker 1: they're ill? What's the viewpoint on that. I don't think 924 01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:03,880 Speaker 1: I'll ever talk to Calm again. His wife is pretty 925 01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:09,360 Speaker 1: adamant that that never happened. Rust TITLEMN. You know, like 926 01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:14,360 Speaker 1: I said, I'm talking to him Lyle love It found 927 01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:16,680 Speaker 1: his way back into my life a week or two 928 01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:20,960 Speaker 1: ago and said, I just want to reach out to 929 01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:25,400 Speaker 1: you and have contact with you again, just like that. 930 01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:29,240 Speaker 1: That's all. And who doesn't. So we began to I 931 01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:32,720 Speaker 1: wrote a little letter and uh, so you never know 932 01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:37,240 Speaker 1: who's going to come back around if you stay long enough. Okay, 933 01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:39,960 Speaker 1: And you talked about loving to travel. What were some 934 01:04:40,120 --> 01:04:43,280 Speaker 1: of your best experiences traveling and where have you not 935 01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:45,680 Speaker 1: been that you want to go. I have not been 936 01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:50,760 Speaker 1: to Africa, and uh, i'd like to see those animals 937 01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:55,000 Speaker 1: before they're gone. I really want to see the Northern 938 01:04:55,120 --> 01:05:00,360 Speaker 1: lights and uh actually took a gig in Alaska though 939 01:05:01,640 --> 01:05:03,600 Speaker 1: no offense to them, but there were the hopes of 940 01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:07,720 Speaker 1: seen the Northern lights, but it was cloudy, so I'd 941 01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:14,880 Speaker 1: like to see that event. Um. I haven't been to 942 01:05:15,080 --> 01:05:24,800 Speaker 1: India or Russia or Kazotstan, and I haven't particularly you know, 943 01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:28,360 Speaker 1: those aren't on my list of where I really I 944 01:05:28,360 --> 01:05:31,800 Speaker 1: want to go before I die, But it would be 945 01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:40,840 Speaker 1: exciting to go everywhere. I think that you know, no 946 01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:46,680 Speaker 1: place rises above that. You know, they're all defined by 947 01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:49,840 Speaker 1: the audience that was there, and the audience is all 948 01:05:49,880 --> 01:05:55,920 Speaker 1: the same audience, They're all the same person. I was 949 01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:58,840 Speaker 1: glad I got to go all the way down to Argentina, 950 01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:04,160 Speaker 1: and I'd like to see Para del Fuego and Antarctica 951 01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:13,520 Speaker 1: right the Antarctica now. Um, but I guess I've I've 952 01:06:13,560 --> 01:06:19,800 Speaker 1: been so many places in my I'm I guess I've 953 01:06:19,840 --> 01:06:23,480 Speaker 1: been to many places, and and I just I'd like 954 01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:28,840 Speaker 1: to see that extraordinary event in the sky and be 955 01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:33,040 Speaker 1: in the home land of Africa. Although I'm Neanderthals, so 956 01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:36,040 Speaker 1: my my I'd probably come from the Deander Valley, but 957 01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:40,320 Speaker 1: I think of the of Africa as the home and 958 01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:42,360 Speaker 1: I'd like to go there and see if when I 959 01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:45,040 Speaker 1: look up at the stars there, if if I go, 960 01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:49,880 Speaker 1: I remember these stars or what happens? And what do 961 01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:56,000 Speaker 1: you think of the state of the world today? Oh? My, well, 962 01:06:56,520 --> 01:07:00,840 Speaker 1: the first thing that comes to mind is the young 963 01:07:01,120 --> 01:07:07,080 Speaker 1: country of America, such a big hope, not even realizing 964 01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:11,440 Speaker 1: how great it is because it's always fighting with itself. 965 01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:13,919 Speaker 1: I lived in France for a while, so I got 966 01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:16,760 Speaker 1: to look back over my shoulder and went, wow, what 967 01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:22,120 Speaker 1: an incredible country America is. You know, we we keep 968 01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:25,600 Speaker 1: hearing information about how other countries don't like us, but 969 01:07:26,360 --> 01:07:29,480 Speaker 1: when you're over there, you realize how much they love us. 970 01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:33,520 Speaker 1: They're like they're like the sister, sometimes the jealous sister, 971 01:07:33,680 --> 01:07:37,160 Speaker 1: but they love us and wish they could be as 972 01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:44,640 Speaker 1: wild as we are. So when democracy begins to fail, 973 01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:50,760 Speaker 1: as we've seen so quickly, you know, in ten or 974 01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:54,600 Speaker 1: twenty years, I feel kind of sad about that. I 975 01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:58,920 Speaker 1: feel sad that, you know, our brothers and our brethren 976 01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:03,560 Speaker 1: here are so selfish that they just think about what 977 01:08:03,680 --> 01:08:08,160 Speaker 1: they want instead of protecting the larger thing of making 978 01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:10,919 Speaker 1: sure whether or not you went that guy or that guy. 979 01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:13,800 Speaker 1: You got to make sure the machine keeps darring, gott 980 01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:19,120 Speaker 1: keep having democracy. Um, I feel frightened for the whole 981 01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:24,760 Speaker 1: world if this, if this thing continues to degenerate and 982 01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:28,800 Speaker 1: go down. But on the other hand, it's a wonderful 983 01:08:29,160 --> 01:08:35,280 Speaker 1: and large world. It's there have been many epox epochs 984 01:08:36,280 --> 01:08:39,200 Speaker 1: of the whole systems of life that came and went, 985 01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:44,240 Speaker 1: came and went. But I have a little, um, a 986 01:08:44,320 --> 01:08:51,920 Speaker 1: little uh petrified snail here about a hundred million years old. 987 01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:55,360 Speaker 1: I got on the Permian Trail and in New Mexico, 988 01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:59,439 Speaker 1: I always like to look at the stars and that 989 01:09:00,439 --> 01:09:06,000 Speaker 1: the petrified living things to remind myself that we're part 990 01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:11,439 Speaker 1: of a larger movement of life and light. Maybe even 991 01:09:11,479 --> 01:09:14,759 Speaker 1: a story, but I'm not sure if it's a story, 992 01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:18,280 Speaker 1: it's something we can't conceive them. So don't take things 993 01:09:18,280 --> 01:09:22,800 Speaker 1: so seriously. That's that's what I tell myself. Look, there's 994 01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:28,240 Speaker 1: a star, don't take it, it's dead. Don't take anything seriously. Um. 995 01:09:28,280 --> 01:09:30,320 Speaker 1: So I think the state of the you know, we 996 01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:34,760 Speaker 1: tend to take ourselves and our times seriously. We're so 997 01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:38,520 Speaker 1: afraid of death and of our power that every generation 998 01:09:38,600 --> 01:09:42,400 Speaker 1: thinks it's the one that's gonna kill everybody and everything. 999 01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:46,799 Speaker 1: But it's not the worst thing to try to if 1000 01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:50,920 Speaker 1: it helps remind people to be their better selves. I 1001 01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:55,040 Speaker 1: think that America is a light to the whole world. 1002 01:09:55,520 --> 01:09:58,880 Speaker 1: And if we don't recognize it before it's too late, 1003 01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:03,320 Speaker 1: and we don't don't mean we can be bullies. But 1004 01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:06,400 Speaker 1: if we don't recognize it before it's too late, then 1005 01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:13,280 Speaker 1: it'll be cool. And if we recognize it, then who knows, 1006 01:10:13,640 --> 01:10:17,719 Speaker 1: you know, who knows what a great what a great 1007 01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:23,679 Speaker 1: thing might happen. I'm just trying this thing here. This 1008 01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:26,599 Speaker 1: is a nice, a nice thing to tell you. I 1009 01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:31,360 Speaker 1: think it's called sub stack. And these guys invented this 1010 01:10:31,640 --> 01:10:35,720 Speaker 1: thing where they take ten percent of so I hope 1011 01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:38,680 Speaker 1: that's okay to tell They take a small percentage of it, 1012 01:10:39,080 --> 01:10:44,800 Speaker 1: and they invite people to create anything they want, and 1013 01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:47,639 Speaker 1: they help them do it. They'll give you an editor, 1014 01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:50,880 Speaker 1: they'll give you this, they'll give you a back. You 1015 01:10:50,920 --> 01:10:53,800 Speaker 1: can reach out to your fans and have them come 1016 01:10:54,040 --> 01:10:56,800 Speaker 1: and you can talk to them, seeming to them, right 1017 01:10:56,880 --> 01:11:03,280 Speaker 1: to them constantly. It's it's a little altruistic, little capitalistic, 1018 01:11:04,200 --> 01:11:10,200 Speaker 1: but but the main focus is to avoid commerciality and 1019 01:11:10,360 --> 01:11:15,120 Speaker 1: the pressure to do things based on money and to 1020 01:11:15,240 --> 01:11:17,960 Speaker 1: do things directly to your audience. If little things like 1021 01:11:18,040 --> 01:11:22,800 Speaker 1: that can pop up, who knows what can happen, you know. 1022 01:11:22,960 --> 01:11:25,120 Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, I was very excited about the 1023 01:11:25,200 --> 01:11:29,320 Speaker 1: idea that that a younger generation is trying to, you know, 1024 01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:33,320 Speaker 1: generate money, but also do things for the greater good. 1025 01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:37,719 Speaker 1: I think it's a I think it's a beautiful world, 1026 01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:40,800 Speaker 1: and I have a lot of hope for it. I 1027 01:11:40,840 --> 01:11:42,720 Speaker 1: really do. I have a lot of hope for it. 1028 01:11:42,920 --> 01:11:46,679 Speaker 1: Don't you know. But I'm a pessimist. I am not 1029 01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:50,200 Speaker 1: I am an optimist. I could go on. We could 1030 01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:52,640 Speaker 1: have a four hour discussion about this, but I know 1031 01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:55,920 Speaker 1: you're limited in time. Uh if you could, if I 1032 01:11:55,920 --> 01:11:59,479 Speaker 1: can weave a magic wand or snap your fingers, what 1033 01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:02,400 Speaker 1: would you want to change about you or your life? 1034 01:12:02,880 --> 01:12:04,840 Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many things you write about the 1035 01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:07,839 Speaker 1: book where you know you've been attacked for your looks 1036 01:12:07,920 --> 01:12:12,080 Speaker 1: or you made certain choices. Are you fatalistic like that's 1037 01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:15,280 Speaker 1: just the way it is? Or if we could change 1038 01:12:15,320 --> 01:12:17,720 Speaker 1: a couple of things, what would you change? But the 1039 01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:21,120 Speaker 1: first answers that I'd have you bring my mother back 1040 01:12:21,160 --> 01:12:25,479 Speaker 1: because I missed my mom. And you know, I was thinking, 1041 01:12:25,760 --> 01:12:29,360 Speaker 1: we have two kinds of friends. We have the friends 1042 01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:34,080 Speaker 1: that that make us laugh, and then we have the 1043 01:12:34,200 --> 01:12:37,960 Speaker 1: friends who laugh at our jokes, who know how to laugh. 1044 01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:43,600 Speaker 1: And there and that rare friend who laughs when we 1045 01:12:43,680 --> 01:12:48,040 Speaker 1: want them to laugh. Understand it so deeply. I only 1046 01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:51,679 Speaker 1: have a friend or two who laughs right on you now, 1047 01:12:52,200 --> 01:12:56,160 Speaker 1: and mother, I just senter into hysterical fits of laughter. 1048 01:12:56,800 --> 01:13:01,360 Speaker 1: And that made me feel so powerful. I could do anything. 1049 01:13:01,479 --> 01:13:03,920 Speaker 1: When I hunt up with my mother, I could write 1050 01:13:03,960 --> 01:13:08,639 Speaker 1: any song or do anything because my mother left at 1051 01:13:08,680 --> 01:13:16,080 Speaker 1: my jokes. Um, so that's the first thing I feel like, Um, 1052 01:13:16,120 --> 01:13:20,639 Speaker 1: I miss having that one son and mood in my life. 1053 01:13:21,439 --> 01:13:27,160 Speaker 1: On a more practical basis, I guess, um, I don't 1054 01:13:27,200 --> 01:13:32,120 Speaker 1: spend any time doing that, you know, A wishless. I 1055 01:13:32,200 --> 01:13:36,519 Speaker 1: hope that I reach a larger audience. But if I 1056 01:13:36,560 --> 01:13:40,519 Speaker 1: do reach a larger audience, I don't want to, you know, 1057 01:13:40,640 --> 01:13:43,320 Speaker 1: do that thing. I should have doubt myself and whether 1058 01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:47,160 Speaker 1: or not I belonged or so. Um, I feel like 1059 01:13:47,160 --> 01:13:50,400 Speaker 1: whatever comes to us to come. I'd like to not 1060 01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:55,000 Speaker 1: be poor. I'd really like to not be poor. But 1061 01:13:55,120 --> 01:13:59,240 Speaker 1: I have a feeling like, uh, in my case, maybe 1062 01:13:59,680 --> 01:14:02,840 Speaker 1: every things on the right truck. And do you need 1063 01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:08,639 Speaker 1: to be remembered or yes if you do, and tell 1064 01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:15,200 Speaker 1: us more about that. Yeah, that's a funny question because 1065 01:14:15,280 --> 01:14:18,160 Speaker 1: I could end up that petrified not even if I'm 1066 01:14:18,200 --> 01:14:22,080 Speaker 1: just a petrified rock. I guess I want to still 1067 01:14:22,160 --> 01:14:27,920 Speaker 1: be here. I like it here, so I wanted to 1068 01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:30,800 Speaker 1: get buried. They have these pods they'll put you in 1069 01:14:30,920 --> 01:14:33,599 Speaker 1: and plant a tree on top of you. I know, 1070 01:14:34,840 --> 01:14:38,960 Speaker 1: plants don't eat they eat carbon or nitrogen or something 1071 01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:41,120 Speaker 1: but I'm trying to be part of it, you know. 1072 01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:45,639 Speaker 1: I just want to be part of the living world, 1073 01:14:46,240 --> 01:14:49,479 Speaker 1: whether it's in a very physical way or in and 1074 01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:53,840 Speaker 1: what people say, or a melody that they hum maybe 1075 01:14:53,880 --> 01:15:01,240 Speaker 1: in three hundred years ago. Whatever it is, is something 1076 01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:04,760 Speaker 1: I did. Even if they don't know I did it, 1077 01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:08,000 Speaker 1: it's still here, like green sleeves. You know who wrote that, 1078 01:15:08,880 --> 01:15:13,840 Speaker 1: or you know? Or my name? That's that's okay too, 1079 01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:16,880 Speaker 1: though of course by then it won't have anything. But 1080 01:15:17,000 --> 01:15:21,960 Speaker 1: I think I'm not Somebody quoted somebody on a movie 1081 01:15:22,040 --> 01:15:27,240 Speaker 1: yesterday I was watching. They said the last person you 1082 01:15:27,320 --> 01:15:31,479 Speaker 1: don't die until the last person who's going to say 1083 01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:36,760 Speaker 1: your name says your name. That's interesting. You know. There's 1084 01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:41,720 Speaker 1: a lot of things in biblical writings or spiritual writings 1085 01:15:41,720 --> 01:15:46,840 Speaker 1: that talk about how we want to be remembered, we 1086 01:15:46,880 --> 01:15:49,400 Speaker 1: want our name to go on. It just seems to 1087 01:15:49,439 --> 01:15:53,439 Speaker 1: be an intrinsic that some people, you know, just burn 1088 01:15:53,520 --> 01:15:55,679 Speaker 1: me up and brought me in the river when I'm dead. 1089 01:15:55,760 --> 01:16:00,559 Speaker 1: But but for me, I'd like some melody I wrote 1090 01:16:00,600 --> 01:16:05,679 Speaker 1: to be some long time from now. Rickly, I really 1091 01:16:05,760 --> 01:16:08,080 Speaker 1: love you. I mean, it's I don't know if we'd 1092 01:16:08,080 --> 01:16:10,640 Speaker 1: ever get along in real life. But so much of 1093 01:16:10,680 --> 01:16:14,799 Speaker 1: what you say resonates with my identity. I mean, feeling 1094 01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:18,680 Speaker 1: like an outsider, wanting to be an insider, the insecurities, 1095 01:16:18,960 --> 01:16:21,240 Speaker 1: all that other stuff that I and I look at 1096 01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:23,479 Speaker 1: the rest of the people and they're going to a job. 1097 01:16:23,560 --> 01:16:26,200 Speaker 1: Maybe it's like Jackson Brown's pretender or something. I just 1098 01:16:26,200 --> 01:16:30,040 Speaker 1: don't know how they do it. I don't either. You know, 1099 01:16:30,080 --> 01:16:33,479 Speaker 1: it's probably really hard for them and and not to 1100 01:16:33,880 --> 01:16:36,760 Speaker 1: you know, look over at them. But but on the 1101 01:16:36,800 --> 01:16:42,000 Speaker 1: other hand, not everybody's cut out to do artistic things. 1102 01:16:42,160 --> 01:16:44,880 Speaker 1: They look at this job and go, I hate to 1103 01:16:44,880 --> 01:16:47,360 Speaker 1: have to travel all the time. I look at their 1104 01:16:47,439 --> 01:16:50,200 Speaker 1: job and go, I hated if I didn't get to travel. 1105 01:16:50,840 --> 01:16:54,000 Speaker 1: So I like to think that we serve each other 1106 01:16:54,080 --> 01:16:57,960 Speaker 1: a little bit, you know, you make this, somebody listens 1107 01:16:58,000 --> 01:17:00,519 Speaker 1: to it and their days a little bit, and then 1108 01:17:00,640 --> 01:17:04,799 Speaker 1: they go out do something better. I think. I think 1109 01:17:04,840 --> 01:17:09,120 Speaker 1: it's good what you're doing, and you've found someplace where 1110 01:17:09,320 --> 01:17:13,120 Speaker 1: the way you feel makes something good in the world, 1111 01:17:13,200 --> 01:17:15,519 Speaker 1: don't you think? Oh yeah, But I mean we could 1112 01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:18,200 Speaker 1: go really so many of these things. I mean, you 1113 01:17:18,280 --> 01:17:21,960 Speaker 1: have a child. I know that you're It's not something 1114 01:17:22,000 --> 01:17:25,720 Speaker 1: you'd rather discuss, but I don't have. I've invested everything 1115 01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:29,559 Speaker 1: in what I have and in my so called career, 1116 01:17:30,479 --> 01:17:35,120 Speaker 1: and then people our age are starting to retire and 1117 01:17:35,160 --> 01:17:37,519 Speaker 1: are on the down slope. I mean, you said earlier, 1118 01:17:37,920 --> 01:17:41,280 Speaker 1: you're older, you're wiser, you're mellow where, you're happier, You've 1119 01:17:41,320 --> 01:17:44,080 Speaker 1: seen all these things. But then you have all these 1120 01:17:44,120 --> 01:17:48,240 Speaker 1: people checking out and they're only living through their memories, 1121 01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:50,479 Speaker 1: and you say, well, you know, I got a lot 1122 01:17:50,479 --> 01:17:52,840 Speaker 1: of want to do here, and it's like, you know, 1123 01:17:52,920 --> 01:17:55,519 Speaker 1: I want to make my market. It's like also, now, 1124 01:17:55,560 --> 01:17:58,720 Speaker 1: because of the Internet, you can play. But you know, 1125 01:17:58,720 --> 01:18:00,519 Speaker 1: it used to be very hard to get a record deal. 1126 01:18:00,560 --> 01:18:02,280 Speaker 1: And if you've got a record deal, even if you 1127 01:18:02,280 --> 01:18:04,040 Speaker 1: didn't have a hit, the label would make a certain 1128 01:18:04,080 --> 01:18:07,240 Speaker 1: number of people aware of his publicity, etcetera. Today you 1129 01:18:07,280 --> 01:18:10,200 Speaker 1: can make Anybody can make something and post it online. 1130 01:18:10,280 --> 01:18:12,880 Speaker 1: That doesn't mean anybody's gonna hear it or read it. 1131 01:18:13,040 --> 01:18:16,839 Speaker 1: I know, like the whole game. The whole game changed 1132 01:18:16,920 --> 01:18:20,320 Speaker 1: while we were playing. It's kind of shocking. I mean, 1133 01:18:20,800 --> 01:18:23,639 Speaker 1: you got a hit that was ubiquitous. You talk about 1134 01:18:23,640 --> 01:18:28,080 Speaker 1: Saturday Night Live, Saturday Night Live, the ratings are you know, 1135 01:18:28,240 --> 01:18:30,840 Speaker 1: they're fraction in Saturday That life means nothing. I don't 1136 01:18:30,840 --> 01:18:33,760 Speaker 1: want to make it about Saturday Night Live, but it's 1137 01:18:33,840 --> 01:18:37,360 Speaker 1: like it was. It was the heartbeat of a generation 1138 01:18:37,840 --> 01:18:41,800 Speaker 1: and there isn't even anything like that anymore. Yeah. Yeah, 1139 01:18:41,920 --> 01:18:43,960 Speaker 1: I don't know if there is, because it would be 1140 01:18:44,000 --> 01:18:47,920 Speaker 1: speaking to a younger generation than us. But to come 1141 01:18:47,960 --> 01:18:51,280 Speaker 1: from a time where there was only a TV and radio, 1142 01:18:51,960 --> 01:18:57,960 Speaker 1: and on TV only one one show that had impact 1143 01:18:58,240 --> 01:19:04,240 Speaker 1: imagined that. Yeah, so the things that happened were much 1144 01:19:04,280 --> 01:19:08,519 Speaker 1: more miraculous, much more powerful for them having found their 1145 01:19:08,560 --> 01:19:10,880 Speaker 1: way to the one place that you had to go 1146 01:19:10,960 --> 01:19:14,599 Speaker 1: in order to be seen or heard. It's funny because 1147 01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:20,479 Speaker 1: with so many choices now there is no more greater 1148 01:19:20,720 --> 01:19:26,160 Speaker 1: music for their being more doors, that music is behind 1149 01:19:26,720 --> 01:19:34,040 Speaker 1: because the amount of people who are powerful, meaningful is 1150 01:19:34,080 --> 01:19:36,760 Speaker 1: always the same and the fact that you know, the 1151 01:19:37,160 --> 01:19:40,200 Speaker 1: percentage is this much, and the fact that there are 1152 01:19:40,240 --> 01:19:44,400 Speaker 1: more doors just means it's crowded with more people who 1153 01:19:44,400 --> 01:19:48,639 Speaker 1: are not really very good, while the great people are 1154 01:19:48,720 --> 01:19:52,320 Speaker 1: still probably trying to find their way to the door 1155 01:19:52,640 --> 01:19:55,639 Speaker 1: that that all that all come and that's the world 1156 01:19:55,680 --> 01:19:58,400 Speaker 1: they're going to live in. There creating that world, it's 1157 01:19:58,439 --> 01:20:00,880 Speaker 1: not the world we do. It's hard for us to 1158 01:20:00,920 --> 01:20:05,639 Speaker 1: imagine what that will be like. Um if if so 1159 01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:10,120 Speaker 1: many people who aren't great get equal time to the 1160 01:20:10,240 --> 01:20:14,160 Speaker 1: people who are truly gifted, but that's for them to 1161 01:20:14,200 --> 01:20:16,479 Speaker 1: work out, Okay, but I just to stay. I have 1162 01:20:16,600 --> 01:20:19,240 Speaker 1: to respond to them. I think it's a different ethos. 1163 01:20:20,160 --> 01:20:22,920 Speaker 1: In the sixties, we all came from a middle class. 1164 01:20:23,040 --> 01:20:27,080 Speaker 1: The income inequality was nowhere like it was today, and 1165 01:20:27,160 --> 01:20:31,000 Speaker 1: you could leave things on the table. The crass commercialization 1166 01:20:31,120 --> 01:20:33,439 Speaker 1: didn't exist. The most important thing was to make your 1167 01:20:33,479 --> 01:20:36,840 Speaker 1: statement and be unfettered. I mean, a rock star was 1168 01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:40,000 Speaker 1: as rich and powerful as anybody in America for getting 1169 01:20:40,040 --> 01:20:44,040 Speaker 1: Europe with royalty, and you could make a statement and 1170 01:20:44,080 --> 01:20:47,240 Speaker 1: everybody could hear it, whereas today it's about the pannumbra. 1171 01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:50,240 Speaker 1: Oh man, if I have some success, I can sell this, 1172 01:20:50,479 --> 01:20:54,519 Speaker 1: I can do this. And there's a lot of creativity. 1173 01:20:54,680 --> 01:20:57,040 Speaker 1: You know there was in the internet. It's not music, 1174 01:20:57,400 --> 01:21:01,080 Speaker 1: and right now there's amazing creativity and tell vision. But 1175 01:21:01,600 --> 01:21:03,960 Speaker 1: for those of us who lived through it, people have 1176 01:21:04,360 --> 01:21:07,920 Speaker 1: no idea what it was like. When the Beatles hit, 1177 01:21:08,479 --> 01:21:11,479 Speaker 1: it was like a light went off. There was music before, 1178 01:21:12,000 --> 01:21:16,759 Speaker 1: but this made it the most important thing in the world. Yes, 1179 01:21:16,880 --> 01:21:21,680 Speaker 1: it did, and we were there. Yeah, I'm with you. 1180 01:21:21,880 --> 01:21:27,439 Speaker 1: The crass commercialism that you're talking about, the the small 1181 01:21:27,600 --> 01:21:32,360 Speaker 1: group of people who made it hit are whatever to 1182 01:21:32,560 --> 01:21:38,800 Speaker 1: be crass. That will pass. It's just a pop culture 1183 01:21:39,160 --> 01:21:43,559 Speaker 1: as it's becoming. It's just an ever changing, folding thing. 1184 01:21:44,200 --> 01:21:47,080 Speaker 1: Used to be in England you'd watch a thing come 1185 01:21:47,120 --> 01:21:50,439 Speaker 1: and go in six months, while in America lasted for 1186 01:21:50,520 --> 01:21:53,760 Speaker 1: a few years. We've caught up to them now and 1187 01:21:53,760 --> 01:21:57,000 Speaker 1: and you know it's going. It is a place where 1188 01:21:57,000 --> 01:22:01,720 Speaker 1: people go to make money, not make art and um, 1189 01:22:01,840 --> 01:22:05,720 Speaker 1: but I think that that will pass. Two, I really do. 1190 01:22:05,920 --> 01:22:09,640 Speaker 1: I think it's it's going to be ever changing, wonderful 1191 01:22:10,720 --> 01:22:13,519 Speaker 1: thing and and there will be a time soon where 1192 01:22:13,680 --> 01:22:18,880 Speaker 1: music and musicians are not the top of the of 1193 01:22:19,000 --> 01:22:23,639 Speaker 1: the social strata that they are now. You know what 1194 01:22:23,680 --> 01:22:26,600 Speaker 1: will Who knows what it will be? My computer programmers, 1195 01:22:26,640 --> 01:22:29,280 Speaker 1: I don't know. But this time in which we live, 1196 01:22:29,400 --> 01:22:34,400 Speaker 1: when musicians get to be beloved, I don't think it'll 1197 01:22:34,439 --> 01:22:36,720 Speaker 1: always be like that? Is that just who I know? 1198 01:22:36,880 --> 01:22:41,879 Speaker 1: Is that optimistic or pessimistic? I just think things change. 1199 01:22:42,000 --> 01:22:45,200 Speaker 1: I'm thinking five d years ago, who knows, who were 1200 01:22:45,200 --> 01:22:48,479 Speaker 1: any who any of the singers were, so it's probably 1201 01:22:48,520 --> 01:22:51,640 Speaker 1: going to change again. Just realistic. I think there will 1202 01:22:51,680 --> 01:22:54,200 Speaker 1: always be music, whether to drive the culture or not. 1203 01:22:54,320 --> 01:22:57,519 Speaker 1: That's yet to be seen. Anyway, the irony here is 1204 01:22:58,200 --> 01:23:01,280 Speaker 1: other than your boyfriend. I don't think we covered a 1205 01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:06,840 Speaker 1: single thing that we talked about in our first conversation. Yeah, 1206 01:23:06,960 --> 01:23:09,320 Speaker 1: the personal is a lot about the book. I think thanks, 1207 01:23:09,360 --> 01:23:11,800 Speaker 1: that were right, So I hope we can do this 1208 01:23:11,880 --> 01:23:15,040 Speaker 1: again in the future, just because you know, it's so 1209 01:23:15,160 --> 01:23:17,120 Speaker 1: great talking to you, so thanks so much for taking 1210 01:23:17,120 --> 01:23:19,719 Speaker 1: the time, Ricky. But I just want to say thank 1211 01:23:19,800 --> 01:23:25,280 Speaker 1: you because you know, people, so many people responded because 1212 01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:28,160 Speaker 1: of what you said about the book, and it was 1213 01:23:28,200 --> 01:23:31,400 Speaker 1: so helpful to me, and I really want to thank 1214 01:23:31,439 --> 01:23:34,840 Speaker 1: you for that. Well, you know, I tell my psychiatrists 1215 01:23:34,920 --> 01:23:36,760 Speaker 1: we talked about marketing. They said, if I want to 1216 01:23:36,800 --> 01:23:38,920 Speaker 1: move ahead, the best thing I can do is just 1217 01:23:38,960 --> 01:23:41,519 Speaker 1: sit here and write something. And so in your a 1218 01:23:41,520 --> 01:23:45,760 Speaker 1: particular case, you wrote the book and you've got a 1219 01:23:45,800 --> 01:23:50,000 Speaker 1: certain amount of publicity. It's all rock biographies autobiographiest but 1220 01:23:50,160 --> 01:23:53,920 Speaker 1: if you read the book, it's something that will stick 1221 01:23:53,960 --> 01:23:57,479 Speaker 1: with you forever. I mean, your experience of hitchhiking is 1222 01:23:57,520 --> 01:24:01,680 Speaker 1: a teenager going to meet that person in Canada and 1223 01:24:01,720 --> 01:24:04,200 Speaker 1: what was going on? What they said, I mean, these 1224 01:24:04,240 --> 01:24:07,200 Speaker 1: are ex and the way it was written, I can't 1225 01:24:07,400 --> 01:24:12,040 Speaker 1: I can't talk about another book that's even similar, you know, 1226 01:24:12,280 --> 01:24:16,080 Speaker 1: and it's it's and that's why it's so memorable. And 1227 01:24:16,200 --> 01:24:19,880 Speaker 1: I tried. I was so impacted, you know. I hope 1228 01:24:20,120 --> 01:24:22,840 Speaker 1: to catch some of that what was in the book 1229 01:24:22,840 --> 01:24:26,120 Speaker 1: of what I wrote. But thanks for saying that, and I, 1230 01:24:26,160 --> 01:24:28,680 Speaker 1: as I said, I was glad to do it. In 1231 01:24:28,760 --> 01:24:31,280 Speaker 1: any event, we've come to the end of the feeling 1232 01:24:31,320 --> 01:24:35,080 Speaker 1: we've known. I have to say goodbye, Ricky Lee, thanks 1233 01:24:35,080 --> 01:24:38,880 Speaker 1: so much for doing us. Until next time. This is 1234 01:24:38,960 --> 01:25:00,439 Speaker 1: Bob Leftstax eight