1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: Quality times, but Joseph's gotten more many years ago. When 2 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: I was in high school played football. I was never 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,920 Speaker 1: a great football player, but I was like second tier. 4 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: I guess I had an opportunity to attend service academy. 5 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: Two of them, Naval Academy and West Point VMI. They 6 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 1: had reached out to me in Central. I was a linebacker. 7 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 1: I was never like, you know, top tier, but I 8 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: didn't mind getting hit. And that's what happens when you 9 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: play football. It's like going through a car accident every 10 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 1: single day that you go to practice. Practice for me 11 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: was always worse than games. But you know, my football 12 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: career came to an end as a result of a 13 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 1: car accident that I was in and guy ran a 14 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: red light. And I had this beautiful nineteen sixty eight 15 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: Mustang that had been restored three speed transmission. 16 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:13,839 Speaker 2: Love that car. 17 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:18,680 Speaker 1: And I was actually on a way to a key 18 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: club meeting in high school and a guy blew the light. 19 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:25,680 Speaker 1: He was driving to ford pickup truck, and he had 20 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: five people in the front seat on a bench seat 21 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 1: in this thing and hits me in the front right 22 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 1: quarter panel of my car. I had the right away 23 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 1: at four lane Street. I was going green, he blew 24 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 1: the light hit me, and I wound up being in 25 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: hospital for about a month, lost the sensation on the 26 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: left side of my body, hurt my C five, C four, 27 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: and eventually through traction, those were things they relieved that problem, 28 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: but I've never completely recovered from that. My neck still cracks, 29 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: it still hurts. It hurts too because I always think 30 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: of about what if you know, well, what I went 31 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: through that day is something that I'm sure that many 32 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: of you guys have gone through throughout your lives, and 33 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: that is being involved in a motor vehicle accident. You 34 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: can bear witness to them, and that's terrifying enough. But 35 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: you know, when you're suddenly rear ended or somebody just 36 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: comes out of nowhere and hammers you, it's one of 37 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: the most terrifying experiences of your life because you're like 38 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: you're at the mercy of a machine at that point 39 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: in time, and all of that energy is transferred into 40 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 1: your body. Well, today we're going to talk about that 41 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: energy transfer, and we're going to talk about it in 42 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:51,839 Speaker 1: various modalities, but the theme today on bodybacks is going 43 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 1: to be blunt force trauma, and I think it's going 44 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: to make for an interesting conversation, and I'm hoping that 45 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: you'll learned something along the way. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan 46 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 1: and this is Bodybacks brother Dave. I was on the 47 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: same defense in high school as Jesse Tuggle was. Jesse 48 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: Tuggle is the career leading tackler in NFL history. They 49 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 1: called him the Hammer. Played his entire career as a 50 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: walk on by the way, as a free agent, a 51 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 1: walk on in college, and as a free agent. He 52 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 1: was non drafted and wound um being And I've never 53 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: been hit so hard in my life, and by Jesse Tuggle. 54 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: Sweet guy, but he's the only person I ever saw 55 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,119 Speaker 1: talk about blunt forces trauma. He's the only guy ever 56 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: saw in football that. And he played defensive end in 57 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: high school that actually caved another person's face mask in 58 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: with a single blow from his forearm. 59 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 2: Wow, a right. 60 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: Right all face mask that had the center bar that 61 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: ran right and it actually bent. And a couple of 62 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: guys I'd never seen that before. That's the kind of 63 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: power he had, you know, And he never He's one 64 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: of these guys kind of like herschel Walker that never 65 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: like dedicated himself to the weight room he's just naturally strong, wow, 66 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: and a force of natures like he's kind of like 67 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: getting hit by Ford f one fifty. 68 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 3: I was looking over the list of blunt forest deaths 69 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 3: because as we were talking about doing this show, Yeah, 70 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 3: I realized how ignorant and I mean unknowing of what 71 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 3: that is. And looking at some of the pictures of 72 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 3: the different aspects of blunt force trauma. You know, I've 73 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 3: learned so many things from you doing this show, and 74 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 3: I thought one of the most common modes of blunt 75 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:47,919 Speaker 3: forest death if you have to, is there like a 76 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 3: graph anywhere where you can look at these and go, yeah, here's. 77 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 1: The Yeah, you could probably dig it up. I'm going 78 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 1: to go ahead and give it away right now. The 79 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: number one source of fatal lunt force trauma in America, 80 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: and I would probably say in the world, are motor 81 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: vehicle accidents. You know, people always talk about people always 82 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: talk about gun violence and all these things, and yeah, 83 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: it's real, it's out there, but it nothing comes close 84 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: to motor vehicle accidents, particularly in America. 85 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:17,919 Speaker 2: Have you been any more accidents than the one you 86 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 2: talked about Let's see. 87 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been rearing into it a couple of times, 88 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: but never anything other than that that was so traumatic. 89 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 1: And listen, I have had I've had, you know, I've 90 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: had As a practitioner, I've had I've had multiple car 91 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: accidents that I've worked, not just car on car, but 92 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: pedestrian on car or car on pedestrian, which is horrible. Yeah, 93 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 1: I actually and even as a professor, I actually had 94 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: a kid that was hit in a crosswalk on the 95 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: way to my lecture, I mean right in front of 96 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: the campus. And this was when I was over in 97 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: Georgia teaching and one of their colleagues, one of their students, 98 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: fellow students, came up in the class and said, hey, 99 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,159 Speaker 1: Professor Morgan, you know so and so has been hit. 100 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: They're on the way to the hospital, you know. And 101 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: sure enough, I looked out in my classroom winning I 102 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,359 Speaker 1: could see the flashing lights. I felt a little guilty 103 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: because I was back then. I was very stringent about 104 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 1: showing up on time and for the day. I'm not 105 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: that brutal, but they were probably sprinting and not paying 106 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 1: attention to. 107 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 3: The JSM is gonna get me, man, No, No, I'm 108 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 3: not that cruel of a teacher. 109 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: But yeah, and and most of the time. Most of 110 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:49,720 Speaker 1: the time, if you have car versus pedestrian, it goes 111 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 1: out saying car is gonna win every single time. And 112 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: you can sustain blunt force trauma in motor vehicle accidents 113 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 1: in any number of ways. And let me let me 114 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: just kind of tell you how this breaks down, because 115 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 1: it's kind of interesting, particularly from just a physics standpoint. 116 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: Let's say an individual is traveling down the road and 117 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: they're riding in their motor vehicle. Well as let's say 118 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: they are struck head on by another approaching vehicle. Well, 119 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: the vehicle or they hit a fixed object, that vehicle 120 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: that they're traveling in is going to come to a 121 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: dead stop theoretically, Okay, well, not everything in the vehicle 122 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: comes to a dead stop, all right, because just because 123 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: you're anchored with a safety belt, or just because an 124 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: air bag deploys, you still have this energy that is 125 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: going to be transferred from that impact. And as the 126 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: car comes to a dead stop, your body for that moment, 127 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: Tom is still traveling. Let's just pick a number. Let's 128 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: say still traveling at forty five miles per hour. The 129 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: head on collision may have taken place at forty five 130 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: miles per hour and your body is still traveling through 131 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: space at that point, and you know, the seat belt 132 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: catches you. You know, I've had people that have been 133 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: killed by their seat belts, Dave. And one of the 134 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: main things that happens, Just to give you a sense 135 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: for this, if people will take there, you can use 136 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: your left or your right hand and find your sternum 137 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: and move it about. Go kind of high up on 138 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: your sternum and just below your about two inches below 139 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:37,679 Speaker 1: your collar bone, your left collar bone, and go down 140 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: about two inches stop right there, just to the side 141 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: of your sternum. That's where your aortis is. And your 142 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: aorta is like the major gigantic vessel that comes off 143 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: of your off of your heart, and that's where you know, 144 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 1: like oxygen, aitty blood is pumped through that. It runs 145 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: all the way down your spine, it bifurcates, comes into 146 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: your fenmeral arteries, it goes up and transfers out to 147 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 1: your arm through your brachial arteries. It's a major source. 148 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 1: So what happens is, Dave, that arch, it's the aortic 149 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: arch is so fragile. So when your body stops, guess 150 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: what your internal organs are still moving. People don't think 151 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,319 Speaker 1: about that. Your internal organs are still moving like your 152 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: body doesn't. The shell of your body might cease motion, 153 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 1: but for a millisecond, the organs within your body are 154 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: actually still traveling. I've had cases over the course of 155 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: my career where the heart will slam up against the 156 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: backside of the sternum, and when that happens, the order 157 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,599 Speaker 1: will tear and there's a very fragile area where it 158 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,079 Speaker 1: kind of it's kind of the root of the order, 159 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: where it comes off of the heart and it literally 160 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: and look at it. Just do a Google search on 161 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: aortic arch and you'll see it. It's curved. There's a 162 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: real fragile area right there where it kind of roots 163 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: off of the heart and begin it's downward descent and 164 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: you get these little rips in it. And let me 165 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: tell you something, even if you've got a team of 166 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: cardiothoracic surgeons that are standing right there, there's a high 167 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 1: probability they're not going to save you, all right, And 168 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:18,599 Speaker 1: so you're going to bleed out. And that's as a 169 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: result of blunt force trauma. You have cardiac contusions where 170 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: you'll have you know, the heart slam up against the 171 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: chest wall. I've seen that you get what's called a 172 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:35,559 Speaker 1: cardiac tampa nod where the pair of cardial sack will tear. 173 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: It's that this, for lack of a better termam it 174 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: is a sack that your heart is encasing that autopes. 175 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 1: We have to cut this thing open, and it's filled 176 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: with cardiac fluid in there. It kind of bathes the 177 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:52,079 Speaker 1: heart and when you that is compromised, the sack fills 178 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: up with blood and it compromises the heart's ability to beat. 179 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: So you've got all of this stuff. Another fragile organ 180 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: in your body. That's that is I was going to 181 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: say impacted, which is kind of accurate. It's the liver 182 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: and the spleen as well, because they will slam forward 183 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 1: liver when you get a rip in the liver. Physicians 184 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: particularly I don't I can't speak to any other physicians, 185 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: but forensic pathologists they refer to those as liver fractures. 186 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: And you think about fracture relative to the bone, but 187 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: when you look at the surface of the liver, it'll 188 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: have this kind of irregular, jagged kind of tear in it, 189 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 1: and they'll call that a hepatic fracture many times and 190 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: it rips open, and buddy, if your liver splits like that, 191 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: your gut's going to fill up with blood. Spleen is 192 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: very fragile. You'll have that. My favorite aunt in the 193 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: world died as a result of a car accident. She 194 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: got t bone. The thing that killed her. She got 195 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 1: hit on the driver side of her door in her 196 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: Chrysler Imperial. It's like a nineteen seventy four Chrysler Imperial. 197 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: You could put eight bodies in the trunk of the thing. 198 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 1: And my aunt Roxy, that was her name. She died 199 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 1: as a result of three of her ribs on the 200 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:12,479 Speaker 1: left side being fractured and driven into her lung. Lung deflates, 201 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 1: chest fills that with blood. They put a chest tube in. 202 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: She lasted from maybe two or three days, but you 203 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,559 Speaker 1: know she was older. You can't recover from that sort 204 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: of thing. So you get all of these types of 205 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: injuries that arise from the number one source of blunt 206 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: force trauma that we experience in America, and that's motor 207 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,959 Speaker 1: vehicle accidents. That's why they try to make them. They 208 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: try to make motor vehicles safer than they used to 209 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:42,559 Speaker 1: be many times, and people really take exception when you 210 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: start to talk about this sort of thing many times. 211 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: And I know, seat belts saved lives. You know how 212 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: many times have we heard that over the years, And 213 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: that's all find good, and yeah they do. But in 214 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 1: my world, we see seat belt injuries. You know, you'll 215 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 1: have these big diagonal marks that'll run from the apex 216 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 1: of the right shoulder all the way down to like 217 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: your left iliac crest, which is you know where your 218 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,679 Speaker 1: pelvis is on the left side of your hip there, 219 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: and you'll have this big, nasty, abraided area that runs 220 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: through there and it's you know, that's where that locking 221 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: mechanism kicks in with the seat belt and your body 222 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: stops and you kind of fold like in this weird way. 223 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: If you could see it in slow motion, it's kind 224 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,199 Speaker 1: of ghastly to watch. And if you go back when 225 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: I first started my career, you had shoulder belts, but 226 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: majority of people still had lap belts in their cars. Well, 227 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: that energy transfer with lap belts. If people you remember, 228 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 1: people never wore lap belts, people didn't wear safety belts, 229 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 1: and people that did wear lap belts when they would 230 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 1: hit a fixed object This is so gruesome. It's one 231 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: of the most gruesome injuries you can sustain. They would 232 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: have we had there's like a cluster of these things 233 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:04,559 Speaker 1: pelvic fractures. So when the pelvis fractures, which is horrific 234 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: in and of itself. I've got a great story about 235 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: when I worked as an er tech setting a fracture 236 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: of pelvis on a twelve year old boy that had 237 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: slid into home plate catcher fell. He impacted the catcher 238 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: and fractured this kid's pelvis. The pelvis would fracture. And 239 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: if you you know I've talked about the federal arteries 240 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: that run they run through the floor of the pelvis. 241 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: There's these holes in bone are referred to as framing, 242 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: and so there's these little framing that these vessels run through, 243 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 1: and if any of those are fractured in any way, 244 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: they create these sharp edges and you can you know, 245 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: those vessels are severed, and again they're hard to get to, 246 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: to dig into, to try to you know, try to 247 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: tie them off. People bleed out, you know from that 248 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: and having touched on you know what happens to the 249 00:14:55,800 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: brain because again you're in you in motion, and your 250 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: your brain is encased in this rock hard rock hard 251 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: bony uh uh I don't know, vault. It's called the 252 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: cranial vault. Not a lot of cushion. Your brain is surrounded. 253 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: It's actually contained in a sack as well with within 254 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: within your brain. It's called the dura and it's bathed 255 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: in uh in cerebral spinal fluid, and it's it's supposed 256 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: to act as a kind of a shock absorber. Uh 257 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 1: And if you ever see the inside of a skull, 258 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: it's got these really nasty kind of you know, uh, 259 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: undulations in it and that sort of thing. So when 260 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 1: the brain, if you didn't have that cushion in there, 261 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: we'd have a lot more people did. But if you 262 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: get hit from the side, you have an initial energy transfer, 263 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: and these are called coup and contracoup injuries where the 264 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 1: brain will if you're hit from the left side, well 265 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: the brain. Let me get this straight. So your head 266 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: in reaction to being struck on the left side will 267 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: go to the left, but your brain is traveling to 268 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: the right, Okay, And as you come back, the brain 269 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 1: is traveling from the right to the left, so it'll 270 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: slam up against both of those walls and you get 271 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: these big indwelling subdural subarachnoid hemorrhages that are in there, 272 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: and you begin to bleed out in your brain and 273 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: those little vessels in there can get clipped. There's so 274 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: many things that can happen to you in a car 275 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: accident that it's quite quite striking on one level. Remember 276 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: when we did the episode, and I recommend to anybody 277 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 1: that hasn't. We did an episode on Sharpfort's injuries very recently, 278 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: and I talked about people being impaled. In Sharpfort's injuries. 279 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: You have objects that come through cars that sort of thing, 280 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,640 Speaker 1: and again those are puncture wounds. But you know, you've 281 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,920 Speaker 1: also got items that are in cars, okay, and they're 282 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: not buckled down. So let's say you're traveling down the 283 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:16,919 Speaker 1: road and in your back window, your kid at vacation 284 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:22,640 Speaker 1: Bible School painted you a stone to use as a doorstop, 285 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: you know, and it's in the back window. Well, there's 286 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: certain ways you can be hit in that car, and 287 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: that stone that's free floating or is not anchored down 288 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: in the car suddenly becomes a projectile in that environment. 289 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: That's why if you see like have you ever seen 290 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: delivery trucks, dave that like vans that have that screen 291 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:49,400 Speaker 1: that's between the front two seats in the van. It's 292 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,119 Speaker 1: a metal screen. Well, there's a reason they have the 293 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:56,199 Speaker 1: metal screen. It's it's not to like I mean, I 294 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 1: guess they have them in prison vans. There's a reason 295 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: that companies have been encouraged by insurance companies to put 296 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,400 Speaker 1: these things in because anything's being carried in the back 297 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,160 Speaker 1: suddenly becomes a projectile and it is flying through the air, 298 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: so you can be impacted that way to day. Well, 299 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: they you know, some of the most brutal cases I've 300 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: ever worked were resulting from blunt force trauma within a household. 301 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:42,160 Speaker 1: You know, we talk a lot about knives, but knives 302 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: are in a sense are weapons of convenience because you 303 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: walk in the kitchen and maybe if your dishes are 304 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: clean and you put them away, you might run across 305 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,239 Speaker 1: a knife. But with blunt force trauma, those are what 306 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,719 Speaker 1: we refer to many times in homes as weapons of convenience. 307 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: And you know, it reminds me of the game Clue, 308 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: And I got to give you an insight. I think 309 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 1: I've said this before. I've never won a game of Clue. 310 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,360 Speaker 1: And I'm a forensics guy. I don't do well much. 311 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:13,439 Speaker 2: Get in the library with a lead pipe. 312 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:15,679 Speaker 1: With a lead pipe, there's a candle holder. You know, 313 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 1: there's all these other things that are out there. You 314 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 1: know that that can be utilized. And what's fascinating to 315 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: me scientifically is that when you begin to examine a 316 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 1: body that has been subjected to blunt force trauma, all 317 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:35,880 Speaker 1: of these instruments, particularly weapons of convenience, you can actually 318 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 1: see a pattern that develops that is unique to that item. 319 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: For instance, if you have a pipe, okay that has 320 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,919 Speaker 1: a threaded end on it, and someone is struck with 321 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:57,199 Speaker 1: that pipe, you can see the impression of the of 322 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 1: the threads from the pipe, particularly how much force. And 323 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,719 Speaker 1: you know what those threads are, how they're being displayed, Well, 324 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: they're being displayed actually dave through an abrasion because abrasions 325 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 1: come up. Man, we can all identify with abrasion. So 326 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: I would submit to you that everybody has sustained a 327 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 1: blunt force trauma at some point in time in your life, 328 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: even when you were a little kid. If you fall 329 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,919 Speaker 1: down on the ground and go boom, if you have 330 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: had a skin knee, a skinned elbow, skin, shoulder knows 331 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 1: whatever it is that is evidence of blunt force trauma. 332 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: And what happens is those abraided areas that you see, 333 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: the skin is literally being kind of plowed through at 334 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 1: a very superficial level, and that top layer of skin 335 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,199 Speaker 1: down to the dirt. You know, you peel back that epidermis, 336 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 1: you've got the dermis. It's going to hemorrhage, and it's 337 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,400 Speaker 1: going to hemorrhag slightly. It's why it has that red discoloration. 338 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:52,159 Speaker 1: It begins to dry out after sometimes you'll get a 339 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,439 Speaker 1: scab on it, that sort of thing. Well, that's kind 340 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: of the superficial level. If you're at the top end. 341 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 1: It depended upon how much force is behind that strike 342 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,400 Speaker 1: that will travel down through the dermas and into what's 343 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 1: called the sub q fat, that kind of cushioned area 344 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,360 Speaker 1: that protects the outside of our body and overlies the musculature. 345 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:18,159 Speaker 1: And so with that depth, you're going deeper and deeper 346 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 1: and deeper. Depended upon how much forces applied, and also Dave, 347 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:29,159 Speaker 1: how much how many times they've been struck. And I 348 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: got to tell you the story about the worst. 349 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 3: It never occurred to me. You know that you would 350 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,399 Speaker 3: have to figure out. Yeah, how many times in a 351 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:40,880 Speaker 3: how many times somebody got hit? 352 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:41,719 Speaker 2: Oh? 353 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, you do, and you try to figure out. And 354 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: again I'm full disclosure here, I have to say that 355 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 1: you can never you can never ever determine order most 356 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 1: of the time, except in the case I'm about to tell 357 00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,160 Speaker 1: you about, and it's probably one of the most gut 358 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: wrenching things I've worked. I had a case in Atlanta 359 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: of a lady that lived in public housing and she 360 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 1: lived there. I'm doing air quotes right now with her boyfriend. 361 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 1: I love it when they're referred to as a fiance 362 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 1: There've been a fiance for like the last decade. Well, 363 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: he's like a raging, angry alcoholic and his fiancee is 364 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 1: suffering from all kinds of debilitating physical problems. They had 365 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:34,199 Speaker 1: a studio apartment in public housing. I'd never seen one 366 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:39,199 Speaker 1: of these before, and she slept on the pullout sofa 367 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 1: in the front room of the house, and she was 368 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:46,120 Speaker 1: always covered in blankets and she couldn't move. She had diabetes, 369 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 1: she had had a partial amputation of one of her feet, 370 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: heart disease. I mean, the list just goes on and on. 371 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 1: So you know, he's what's referred to as a mean drunk. Well, 372 00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 1: I got called out in Atlanta. This radio signal for 373 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,399 Speaker 1: death is forty eight, so they call it a signal 374 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: forty eight, and it came out initially as a forty 375 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 1: eight natural is the way that the radio call. But 376 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:13,399 Speaker 1: she's found dead, so I'm mandated to have to go 377 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,120 Speaker 1: out to the scene just examine her. And I roll 378 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: out there and I met by a young uniformed officer 379 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: and this male that's hanging outside and he is hammered, hammered, 380 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: and there are these cans of beer that each individually. 381 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 1: They're big Mont liquor cans that are still wrapped in 382 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:39,160 Speaker 1: paper bags, empty, but they're laying all over the place 383 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 1: and sitting up on the stairs. And when he greeted me, 384 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: he's like, hey, Cap, how you doing? And so for me, 385 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: and I had police officers that were telling me that 386 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:52,199 Speaker 1: if someone calls you cap, and I'm wearing a bage 387 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: they call you Cap, there's a high probability they've done 388 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: time because it's like a formal address, you know, hey captain, 389 00:23:58,320 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: like captain of the Guard and that sort of thing. 390 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,959 Speaker 1: I said, Hey, how are you? And I didn't want 391 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,400 Speaker 1: to talk to him at that point, I just wanted 392 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,399 Speaker 1: to go in and see this Lely's body. Well, the 393 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: young officer followed me in and said, yeah, he came home. 394 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: He's been out all night. He came home and found 395 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:17,879 Speaker 1: her dead in the bed. And it was hot, I 396 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: mean it was so hot in this apartment. And she's 397 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 1: covered in like three layers of blankets. Well, I'm looking 398 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: at her. I pulled the blankets back, Dave, and she's 399 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: got this dirty nightgown on. And you can when you 400 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 1: pull the blanket back, the smell just kind of rushes 401 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: out and hits you. And it's not dcom it's a 402 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: smell of feces. It's a smell of urine. It's kind 403 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 1: of stale urine smell. And as it turned out, it 404 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:53,919 Speaker 1: was also a smell of bed sores. And so I 405 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,679 Speaker 1: began to examine her. And day when I pulled back, 406 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: pulled back these blankets and pulled up her just a dirty, 407 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,640 Speaker 1: filthy nightgown that she had on. That she had all 408 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:10,359 Speaker 1: of these contusions, which remember it goes abrasion in contusion. 409 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:14,439 Speaker 1: So contusion is deep tissue. It's a bruise. It's a 410 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: fancy term for a bruise. So you have to get 411 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,880 Speaker 1: past the abrasion. One hundred and sixty seven of them, 412 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty seven of them. The reason I 413 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: know that is they were in this odd shape. They 414 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 1: were shaped. See how can I describe it? They were 415 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 1: about each one of them was about an inch in width. 416 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: They had a it almost looked like a saw tooth 417 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 1: end at the terminal end of each one of them. 418 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 1: And I say saw tooth, kind of jagged, and each 419 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: one of them varied in length from about twelve inches 420 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,200 Speaker 1: up to about sixteen inches. She's covered with them, Dave. 421 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 1: And when I saw that, I looked at that officer. 422 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: I said, put his ass in handcuffs, put him in 423 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: the back of the unit out there, called detectives, get 424 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 1: CID in route. I've got a call back to my office. 425 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: Call back to my office because I'd never seen anything 426 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: like this. And when I'm describing this, I get the 427 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: pathologist that happened to be a friend of mine that 428 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,120 Speaker 1: was on duty. I said, look, man, I said, I've 429 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,640 Speaker 1: never seen this. I would really prefer that you'd come here. 430 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 1: He's like, come pick me up. And we were not 431 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: that far away from the office. I ran, you know, 432 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 1: blasted over the office, grabbed him when we came back, 433 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,199 Speaker 1: and I'll never forget this friend mine. He's from North 434 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: Dakota and he he's got this real thick North Dakota accident. 435 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: He's like, oh my like that, and he said, I've 436 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: got it. We've got to get heard her good lighting 437 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,880 Speaker 1: so I can better examine her and took her back 438 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: and I was with him in the morgue and I 439 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: suited it up for this and we start taking photos 440 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: of these injuries all over her body, Dave, and you 441 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 1: couldn't They were mostly intire on the front of her 442 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: body because she was bedridden and laid in one spot, 443 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: and she had these big ulternated bedsores. It was one 444 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 1: hundred and sixty seven of them. And the physician looked 445 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:26,159 Speaker 1: at me and said, there is something in that house 446 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: that matches this pattern. You got to go find it. 447 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: So myself the homicide detectives went back out there and 448 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: in their laundry room day there's a shelf over and 449 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: people can identify, you know, the shelf that you have 450 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: over your where you keep your detergent and your fabric 451 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 1: softener and all that. And I started moving things around 452 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 1: and in the back behind like where the detergent was, 453 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:58,479 Speaker 1: there was a busted or fractured dryer belt. Now, if 454 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,160 Speaker 1: you've never seen a dryer belt, there actually more robust 455 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 1: than car belts than car fan belts. They're big in diameter. 456 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: And sure enough, Dave, the thing matched the pattern on 457 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: the end of this thing that every time he came home, blistered, drunk, 458 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,240 Speaker 1: he would grab this thing. And this poor woman who's 459 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: so debilitated, is completely dependent upon her fiance, he would 460 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 1: beat her every single time. This and again this is 461 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,399 Speaker 1: a first for me. When we were in the morgue, 462 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: you've heard have you ever heard the old term beaten 463 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 1: to a pulp? When the physician, because we were trying 464 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: to age what they call age the wounds or age 465 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: the bruises contusions, you create these external incisions just to 466 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: go down specifically into that area. She had been beaten 467 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: so faroosle Dave that her subkey fat in many spots 468 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 1: had liquefied, and when the incision was made, it, along 469 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 1: with blood, came porn out. Look, there are any number 470 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 1: of ways that blunt force trauma can be sustained. I'm 471 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 1: thinking right now many times about our elder population I'm 472 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: sure that many of us can identify. We've had elderly 473 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: the old ones that have fallen and you know, broken 474 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: a hip, that sort of thing. Our bones are not 475 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 1: as robust as they were when we were younger. That's 476 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 1: a form of blunt force trauma. And you'll find people 477 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: that are not in necessary haven't necessarily had a heart attack, 478 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 1: but they they're they're lightheaded, they don't have the same 479 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: gait that they once did their steady and they can 480 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: fall and crack their heads. You'll see that many times 481 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: the manifestos seen and sometimes you see that and you're thinking, oh, 482 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: my lord, you know they've been beaten and that's not 483 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 1: the case. But for us in the field, Dave, we 484 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: look for any manner of injury that we can tie 485 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: back to a specific object that may have created it. 486 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 2: Wow, got can I ask you something? 487 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 1: Yeah? 488 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 2: Sure. 489 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 3: When the Karen Reid trial took up a lot of 490 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 3: prime time crime coverage and there were two of them, Yeah, 491 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 3: and I think sometimes the victim, John O'Keefe kind of 492 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 3: got lost in the shuffle between whatever kind of investigation happened, 493 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 3: and but who Karen Reid was or is? And I 494 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 3: did look at pictures and things that were made available. 495 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 3: You're familiar with the case enough that he suffered blain 496 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 3: force trauma. 497 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 1: Correct, Yes he did, Yeah, he did, and it and 498 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 1: the blot force trauma that I was particularly focused on 499 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,240 Speaker 1: in that case was going to be the head trauma, 500 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 1: because that, along with hypothermia, is probably what brought about 501 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: his death. 502 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 3: Okay, that's what I was wondering, because I knew that 503 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 3: he was out there in a blizzard, you know, and 504 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 3: that had to have some type of an impact. But 505 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 3: there had to be something that made him where he 506 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 3: couldn't get up and get himself warm. 507 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 2: So that's where the head trauma comes Yeah. 508 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's where the head trauma comes in. And what 509 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: was fascinating about that, you know, I remember distinctly looking 510 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: at the sketch that the forendsic pathologist had created with 511 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 1: the interior of his skull. And we do these we 512 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 1: do these sketches or we have we have their templates 513 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 1: that you use in them. Morg. Everybody's seeing these things. 514 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: They're kind of you'll see a man or a woman, 515 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 1: and you'll have an anterior view, posterior view, you'll have 516 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: a lateral view. Then they do specific close ups of 517 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 1: the body like they'll be one completely devoted to the head, 518 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 1: one devoted to the hand, and it can be left 519 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: or right hand if you want to get very specific. 520 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 1: And they do one where the top of the head, 521 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: the calvarium top of the skull is missing and you're 522 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 1: looking down into the cranium vault well with a Kief's 523 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: the thing that I noticed about his it was so 524 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: very no pun intended striking, was the fact that he 525 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: had two separate groups of fractures. He's got this kind 526 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 1: of anterior thing that's going on with the right eye 527 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 1: where that fracture goes through the floor of the skull. Okay, 528 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 1: and it ceases before it gets to the frame and magnum, 529 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: which is where your spinal cord dumps dumps down, you know, 530 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 1: where your brain stem turns into your spinal cord. It 531 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 1: ended before that, but and it's kind of a spider web. 532 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: It looks like spider web when you see it. He's 533 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: got one of those on the backside too. These are 534 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 1: two separate events, so you've got an initial impact boom, 535 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: you know, being hit. You know, they've described this trauma 536 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 1: on the right aspect of his face, and then you've 537 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:18,840 Speaker 1: got concurrently, you've got this strike and there's this laceration 538 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 1: on the backside of his head. Well, when he impacts 539 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: whatever surface he impacted, if you're particularly hit by car, 540 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 1: you can that energy transfer is pretty tremendous, you know. 541 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 1: And I know a lot of people are saying, well, 542 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: he was beaten up by other people and dumped out there. Well, 543 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 1: if you say that he was beaten by other people, 544 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 1: my question would be would be what was he beaten with? 545 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 1: Because hands are not going to generate those kind of 546 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 1: fractures inside that maybe I guess if he could if 547 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 1: he got stomped on. But if somebody gets stomped on, 548 00:33:58,080 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 1: you pattern abrasion. 549 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:02,479 Speaker 3: Us the other I would I would think if it 550 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 3: was in a beating, you would see other injuries around 551 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,879 Speaker 3: the body because if any fight I've ever seen people 552 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 3: get hit all over the place, you don't get you know, 553 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 3: you get several And. 554 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 1: One of the more interesting kind of hypotheses that was 555 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:21,399 Speaker 1: pushed out there was a head strike, a poster head 556 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 1: strike on the leading edge of a step, and it's 557 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:30,400 Speaker 1: because you've got this kind of linear, linear lacerational backside. 558 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: And by the way, I'm going to go into this. 559 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: Lacerations are different than cuts. We kind of talked about 560 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 1: this in sharpforce's injury. I hope everybody will go back 561 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: and listen to that. This is this is a lacerational 562 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 1: in back of his head. That's blunt force trauma. That 563 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: it's you know, maybe a little bit larger than an inch, 564 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 1: and it runs east and west. It's in the horizontal plane. 565 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: And so that energy from that created this other, this 566 00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 1: other fracture on the floor of the skull. So when 567 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,319 Speaker 1: you look at that, you you know, you begin to 568 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:08,120 Speaker 1: you know, kind of try to assess and O'Keefe is 569 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 1: merely an example of this. In a morgue, we try 570 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 1: to assess what, first off, what instrument could have caused this, 571 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,280 Speaker 1: and also what instrument could have caused this it would 572 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:24,719 Speaker 1: have sufficient force to do this, okay, because you're not 573 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,440 Speaker 1: just going to like fall down, go boom, and you 574 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,799 Speaker 1: get this kind of complex fracture pattern in the on 575 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 1: the floor of the skull. That's not the way that happens. 576 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,479 Speaker 1: It's not the way this works. It's not the way 577 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 1: how any of this works. All right, It just doesn't 578 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: you go and push that out here. 579 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 3: So weird because you know, Joe, there's things that you 580 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 3: know that people like me I have no clue. Okay, 581 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 3: I see things a certain way. But then when I'm 582 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,399 Speaker 3: talking to you and you start explaining how these things look, 583 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:55,400 Speaker 3: I'm thinking, how does anybody ever get away with anything? 584 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,760 Speaker 3: I mean that because you look at something so different 585 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:00,719 Speaker 3: than the way those people do. 586 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:06,520 Speaker 1: And that's a good question. I don't know the the 587 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 1: way people get away with things, and I know I 588 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:10,240 Speaker 1: have missed things personally. 589 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 3: Uh. 590 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,440 Speaker 1: And that's the way you become a better investigator is 591 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:20,360 Speaker 1: not through success but through failure. You It all depends 592 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:24,960 Speaker 1: on how much it's generally some kind of human error 593 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:29,080 Speaker 1: where you miss something. And going back to the Keith seeing, uh, 594 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,919 Speaker 1: so much was lost in that that period of time, 595 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:33,760 Speaker 1: the way it was handled, you know, the way people 596 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: responded to it. And look, there'll be people that will 597 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 1: be lecturing about the case for years and years to come. 598 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's done and now except. 599 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,680 Speaker 3: You know, yeah, Karen Reid cannot be tried again. She 600 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 3: was judging not guilty. Yeah, precisely. 601 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 1: You know. Now it's going to be a liability phase 602 00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 1: where you're gonna got in the civil court and that 603 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 1: might be a bit of a different uh lower there. Yeah, 604 00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: it's preponderance of the evidence. You know. I guess if 605 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,799 Speaker 1: Nancy was here, she'd say, are you a lawyer, just Scott, No, 606 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:11,279 Speaker 1: I'm not, but you upset depositions, There enough depositions to know. 607 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean he you can look at that. 608 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 1: You can look at that and try to understand, you know, 609 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:21,520 Speaker 1: how how this would have happened. You try to explain it. 610 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:23,720 Speaker 1: And all you can do is give that information back 611 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 1: to the police that are trying to understand circumstances. And 612 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,680 Speaker 1: that's what circumstantial evidence. You present them with the physical 613 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:36,600 Speaker 1: findings you know that you have there, provided that the 614 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 1: information that was gleaned at the scene is sufficient to 615 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:43,640 Speaker 1: the task, because sometimes in our world you don't necessarily 616 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 1: have all the data that's coming in. 617 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:47,920 Speaker 3: Well, and you and I've noticed that in covering stories 618 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,960 Speaker 3: where there will I'll give you like Harmony Montgomery comes 619 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,759 Speaker 3: to mind. Oh, where we had a lot of information 620 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 3: on that story as it was, because it came in 621 00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:59,239 Speaker 3: late and we were figuring out and I remember you 622 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 3: and I were talking about it and more information came 623 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,840 Speaker 3: out and it was like, wait a minute, that explains 624 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:11,319 Speaker 3: so much something small, and it basically for you could 625 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,400 Speaker 3: break the case wide open because you knew based on 626 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 3: all of the information you had, on the physical evidence 627 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:19,840 Speaker 3: of what we had for that point that even without 628 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,640 Speaker 3: a body, based on what you were told, you were 629 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 3: able to figure out what happened. 630 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:34,840 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and with that he and father, with that person, 631 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:41,399 Speaker 1: you know, even he infamously said, I think I really 632 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:46,520 Speaker 1: hit her hard this time. And that precious baby, you know, 633 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:50,440 Speaker 1: died in the backseat of a convertible seabreing in the 634 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:55,920 Speaker 1: dead of winter in our northeast. Great job of providing 635 00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:00,440 Speaker 1: such a wonderful life for that little angel. And you know, 636 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,680 Speaker 1: still to this day, but you know, hearing we know 637 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,320 Speaker 1: that he had struck her on various occasions, and I 638 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:12,319 Speaker 1: felt like and poor, poor poor angel. You know she's 639 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,720 Speaker 1: blond anyway, Dave, I remember that, you know, she's blond 640 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 1: and she has to wear glasses. I know what a struggle. 641 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 3: I mean, what I could think of it as anybody 642 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:26,560 Speaker 3: that saw that case. Yeah, I just remember thinking, why 643 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 3: come on, I would have taken her, you. 644 00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:31,719 Speaker 1: Know, no questions asked, Just bring her, bring her to 645 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 1: my doorstep. You know what I'm saying. We'll find somebody 646 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:38,320 Speaker 1: and you know this had been a progression, and that's 647 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,439 Speaker 1: that goes into also assessment of blunt force trauma. Because Dave, 648 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:45,920 Speaker 1: in our world, in the world of death investigation and 649 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:51,920 Speaker 1: also with child abuse cases, Dave, what what kind of 650 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:59,359 Speaker 1: happens is we we actually grade grade bruises. And it's 651 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:04,359 Speaker 1: when when you're working as a child and child abuse investigator, 652 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:06,759 Speaker 1: which God bless those people that do that job. I 653 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,719 Speaker 1: don't know how in the world that could do it, 654 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,239 Speaker 1: but I think that everybody that's hearing me right now 655 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,200 Speaker 1: can understand this. Let me kind of run down the 656 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,799 Speaker 1: timeframe so that everybody understands about blunt force trauma. And 657 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,160 Speaker 1: one of things we look at not only in the morgue, 658 00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:25,200 Speaker 1: but when you have a social worker or a physician 659 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 1: that's working for law enforcement that's assessing child abuse cases, 660 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:34,280 Speaker 1: one of the things they do is they will age 661 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,000 Speaker 1: bruises and just give me a little latitude here and 662 00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,399 Speaker 1: let me break it down. So when you initially get 663 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,560 Speaker 1: a contusion on an impact injury, you're going to be 664 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:45,880 Speaker 1: looking at the surface of the skin will be kind 665 00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:49,080 Speaker 1: of red. It's like that irritation. Remember how I talked 666 00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:54,479 Speaker 1: about with an abrasion anything that makes contact with the skin, 667 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,480 Speaker 1: even a fist, a closed fist, it'll have that kind 668 00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:00,839 Speaker 1: of red discolouration and you'll see that in the immediate 669 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,359 Speaker 1: Then it'll take about one to four hours and you'll 670 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:09,400 Speaker 1: begin to see blue and purple, okay in the color. 671 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:11,399 Speaker 1: Just think about this on your own body. You know, 672 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:18,600 Speaker 1: generally about four days down range, that purplish area will 673 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:23,480 Speaker 1: begin to turn that creepy green color, okay, and that's 674 00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:27,160 Speaker 1: gonna last about four to seven days. Then you're gonna 675 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,799 Speaker 1: get the really disgusting color, which is yellow. If and 676 00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,520 Speaker 1: that's just part of the healing process, and that's the 677 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:38,799 Speaker 1: blood that's contained in that contused area that is resolving. 678 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 1: All right. It's kind of dissipating because it's often interstitial tissue. 679 00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,520 Speaker 1: You've got broken vessels. The vessels are healing, and that 680 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,480 Speaker 1: blood just kind of it disappears over period time. Will 681 00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,520 Speaker 1: the yellow will stay around seven to ten days, and 682 00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,480 Speaker 1: then after about fourteen to twenty one days, you're back 683 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,319 Speaker 1: to normal. We say, Morgan, what difference does that make. 684 00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:59,600 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what difference it makes. If you've got 685 00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:04,160 Speaker 1: an old going case of abuse, all right, if you 686 00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:08,440 Speaker 1: if you're interviewing a child, and I'm talking now to 687 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:12,640 Speaker 1: people that deal with the living. They will have that 688 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:16,439 Speaker 1: child assessed by maybe a nurse practitioner or maybe even 689 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:20,080 Speaker 1: a physician, and if they notice that you have bruises 690 00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:22,920 Speaker 1: on a body that are in these different states of healing, 691 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:25,279 Speaker 1: they're going to know that this is Dave, not a 692 00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,000 Speaker 1: one off event. Okay, I can't tell you how many 693 00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:31,640 Speaker 1: these cases I've worked over the years where you'll have 694 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:35,239 Speaker 1: an individual that is their body is little bodies are 695 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:42,440 Speaker 1: just littered with contusions, and you'll have the suspect that 696 00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,640 Speaker 1: will say, well, oh yeah, well they fell down the stairs. 697 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:49,120 Speaker 1: You know, my next question is how many times and 698 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,560 Speaker 1: what days did they fall down the stairs? Because you 699 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:55,200 Speaker 1: because of those color changes, you know that these are 700 00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:58,160 Speaker 1: not one off events. You'll have these layer things. It's 701 00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:00,200 Speaker 1: kind of like the woman that I was mentioning that 702 00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:05,759 Speaker 1: was beaten to death with the dryer belt over and 703 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,759 Speaker 1: over and over again, and these things are layered on 704 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,279 Speaker 1: top of one another. So it's very important for us 705 00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:17,120 Speaker 1: to be able to assess, you know, assess these injuries, 706 00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:22,480 Speaker 1: to contextualize it relative to relative to know what's going 707 00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:24,880 Speaker 1: on and again with her, one of the things that 708 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:28,360 Speaker 1: we're looking at is what's referred to as pattern impact trauma. 709 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,400 Speaker 1: What could have generated We were talking about baseball bats 710 00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:33,200 Speaker 1: just a minute ago, and let me tell you how 711 00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,640 Speaker 1: this kind of breaks down. You'll find this fascinating if 712 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:39,320 Speaker 1: you ever seen a slow motion the slow motion, super 713 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,799 Speaker 1: slow most shots of a baseball being struck by a bat, 714 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,360 Speaker 1: where it's going through the strike zone and the ball 715 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:50,279 Speaker 1: you can see just for a millisecond, the ball bends, 716 00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,839 Speaker 1: It literally bends and wraps, particularly with an aluminum bat 717 00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,600 Speaker 1: or metal bat, it'll rap. Just for saying, you'll see 718 00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,359 Speaker 1: an indentation. Do you know. Our skin works the same way, 719 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:03,120 Speaker 1: So if you get struck, if somebody gets struck in 720 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:06,000 Speaker 1: the arm with like a baseball bat or any solid object, 721 00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:12,360 Speaker 1: for an instant, the skin will wrap around the circumference 722 00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:15,640 Speaker 1: let's say it's a cylindrical object, around the circumference of it, 723 00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:20,160 Speaker 1: and then pop back into place after being struck. So 724 00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:24,960 Speaker 1: that's why many times these contusions actually appear a bit 725 00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,520 Speaker 1: larger than the actual instrument that generated it. So if 726 00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:30,640 Speaker 1: somebody struck with a barrel of a right in a 727 00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:32,400 Speaker 1: sweet spot as you guys call it, right in sweet 728 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,640 Speaker 1: spot of the bat, that contusion is going to have 729 00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,600 Speaker 1: the appearance of a much larger object. But what's happening 730 00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:42,000 Speaker 1: as that central point of impact is hang on, I'm 731 00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,120 Speaker 1: showing Dave. I got to demonstrate to him that I 732 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:46,439 Speaker 1: know how to roll my wrist. So as you roll 733 00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:50,760 Speaker 1: your wrists through the swing, the tissue will wrap around 734 00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,799 Speaker 1: the barrel of the bat. So even something that's not 735 00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:58,839 Speaker 1: directly struck will slap that outer portion of the bat 736 00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,160 Speaker 1: and you'll get this real broad ranging contusion. And that's 737 00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:06,000 Speaker 1: one of the things you kind of assess now if 738 00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:10,400 Speaker 1: you're using something like a hammer, because we have people 739 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:15,520 Speaker 1: that have hammer attacks where they're struck it it's not 740 00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:19,600 Speaker 1: necessarily the same shape. What's fascinating like hammer attacks and 741 00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:23,480 Speaker 1: blunt force trauma is that if someone is struck in 742 00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:28,200 Speaker 1: the skull, you'll have a coin shape, if you're thinking 743 00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:32,400 Speaker 1: about standard finishing hammer, a coin shape, a braided area 744 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,840 Speaker 1: in the skin, and then when you reflect the scalp, 745 00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:40,759 Speaker 1: you'll have these perfect plugged areas of fracture, and it's 746 00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:44,799 Speaker 1: a circular fracture, which you don't see a lot in 747 00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:49,320 Speaker 1: the skull and these things. Many times, what happens is 748 00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:52,000 Speaker 1: is that as the skull. The external table of skull 749 00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:55,239 Speaker 1: is fractured away from those anchor points around it structurally 750 00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:59,080 Speaker 1: that it's not the hammer being driven into the brain, 751 00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:03,600 Speaker 1: it's actually that plug of bone that's being driven into 752 00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:05,960 Speaker 1: the brain. So you've got this layered event and you 753 00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:09,359 Speaker 1: get multiple of these, the skin is not necessarily going 754 00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:14,440 Speaker 1: to appear the same either. We've got all over the body, 755 00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:17,960 Speaker 1: and surgeons know this. We have what are referred to 756 00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:26,919 Speaker 1: as lines of Langer. And if people are out there 757 00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:28,520 Speaker 1: that have been in the military, one of the first 758 00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:30,239 Speaker 1: things they teach you to do in the military is 759 00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,360 Speaker 1: to study contour maps and it gives you height, elevation, 760 00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:38,200 Speaker 1: that sort of thing. So the tighter those lines with elevation, 761 00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:41,840 Speaker 1: they follow the pattern of the ground. Well, we have 762 00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:44,880 Speaker 1: those patterns all over our body and they're very predictable. 763 00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:49,160 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, when people are when med 764 00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:52,520 Speaker 1: school students are studying human anatomy, they learn the lines 765 00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:56,719 Speaker 1: of Langer. So if you make an incision like classic 766 00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:59,960 Speaker 1: concision everybody's familiar with is what's referred to as the 767 00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:04,160 Speaker 1: McBurnie incision, and that's for an appendectomy. For years people 768 00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:08,680 Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't always done laparoscopically where they're gonna 769 00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:10,920 Speaker 1: go through your belly button. They make this diagonal scar. 770 00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:13,920 Speaker 1: It's on the right lower quadront of your abdomen, and 771 00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:19,840 Speaker 1: it runs it runs diagonally opposing to where the actual 772 00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:23,319 Speaker 1: appendix is. The reason they make that incision that way 773 00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:27,440 Speaker 1: is because it follows the line of langer, essentially, like 774 00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,319 Speaker 1: if you're talking about furniture, it follows the grain. So 775 00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,280 Speaker 1: if you cut across the lines of Langer, it opens 776 00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:37,799 Speaker 1: up into this really ghastly injury. Okay, Well, when you 777 00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:43,000 Speaker 1: have someone struck by an instrument, okay, like a bat 778 00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:46,960 Speaker 1: or a hammer or whatever it is, a car, they 779 00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:52,920 Speaker 1: get these big nasty lacerations that are abnormal in appearance, 780 00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,880 Speaker 1: that the sides don't appear to marry up, you really 781 00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,760 Speaker 1: have to, like like in the morgue, we'll use tape. 782 00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:02,319 Speaker 1: Many times, we'll use really strong medical tape to try 783 00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:04,480 Speaker 1: to pull the side together, just so that we can 784 00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:09,160 Speaker 1: appreciate how the two things connect, because when you take 785 00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:11,200 Speaker 1: the tape off, it's just going to spring back out 786 00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:13,719 Speaker 1: to this real irregular I don't know the best way 787 00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:16,440 Speaker 1: I can say it is like a Frankenstein, you know, 788 00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:20,480 Speaker 1: cut because it's so odd when you see it and 789 00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:23,759 Speaker 1: you know that you're dealing because that's a true laceration, 790 00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:29,560 Speaker 1: you'll have these little bits of skin that attach to 791 00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:33,960 Speaker 1: either side. That's called tissue bridging, so it's not completely 792 00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,280 Speaker 1: cut through. So you're going to see that with blunt 793 00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:41,200 Speaker 1: force trauma in particular. So it's I would say, dave 794 00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:46,560 Speaker 1: that compared to gunshot wounds and anything I ever had 795 00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:51,320 Speaker 1: to assess in the medical legal context, blunt force trauma 796 00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:57,239 Speaker 1: by far is the most difficult thing to assess, make 797 00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:01,080 Speaker 1: a record of, to try to connect with some specific 798 00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:06,000 Speaker 1: object that's out there. It takes time, Unlike I mean, 799 00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:08,959 Speaker 1: everything that we assess takes time. There's a learning curve 800 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:12,080 Speaker 1: with it. But I still to this day, to this day, 801 00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:15,480 Speaker 1: at this age and stage in my life, there are 802 00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:19,440 Speaker 1: still things daily that I can learn about blunt force 803 00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:26,320 Speaker 1: trauma and the scars that are left behind. I'm Joseph 804 00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:29,720 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan and this is body bags