1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: Just a heads up. This episode mentions miscarriage. You're listening 2 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:09,800 Speaker 1: to Disinformed, a mini series from There Are No Girls 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:16,920 Speaker 1: on the Internet. I'm Bridget Todd, So like many women, 4 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:19,479 Speaker 1: I've experienced a miscarriage and it was one of the hardest, 5 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:22,960 Speaker 1: most painful experiences of my entire life. That's why I'm 6 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: so deeply disturbed by the latest COVID vaccine misinformation floating 7 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: around corners of the mommy Internet. So called wellness gurus 8 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: and momstergram influencers are using their social media platforms to 9 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: spread fears getting a COVID vaccine, or even just being 10 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 1: around someone who has gotten a vaccine, can cause a miscarriage. 11 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: So to be clear, I am not a doctor, so 12 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: this episode is really me parroting information from actual doctors. 13 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 1: The American Society for Reproductive Medicine has endorsed vaccination during 14 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: pregnancy based on evidence it's been evaluating for over a year. Everyone, 15 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: including pregnant women and those seeking to become pregnant, should 16 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: get a COVID nineteen vaccine. The vaccines are safe and effective, 17 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: the society set in a statement, and the preliminary results 18 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: of one of the largest reports on COVID nineteen. Vaccination 19 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: during pregnancy bolsters evidence that it's safe to get vaccinated, 20 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 1: although the authors of the report say more comprehensive research 21 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 1: is needed. So that's the facts. But here's where things 22 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: get murky. Dr Jen Gunter and O. B. G. Y An, 23 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: and one of my favorite slayers of medical misinformation, said 24 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:25,960 Speaker 1: that a lot of people were contacting or reporting heavier 25 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 1: periods than usual after having gotten the COVID vaccine. She 26 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 1: wrote an entire blog post about it, which you should 27 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: definitely read. You can find it in the show description. 28 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: She writes. This was first formally covered in The Lily, 29 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: and the article points a out that the impact on 30 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 1: vaccines administruation isn't typically tracked in studies. Bleeding that is 31 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: heavy enough to require a trip to the emergency room 32 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: would be picked up by most vaccine studies, but not 33 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: an early period or breakthrough bleeding, or a heavy period 34 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: or a more painful one. This lack of information is maddening, 35 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: not because I think there's something harmful happening to the 36 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: uterus post vaccination, but because this is something that we 37 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: should understand and people like to be warned of side 38 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: effects in advance. For example, I warned my patients that 39 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: steroid injections can cause a regular period, so that if 40 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: it happens, my patients are not surprised. Now. In this post, 41 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: doctor Gunter lays that all the possible reasons why a 42 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: vaccine might unpact somebody's period, including the possibility that there 43 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: is no link at all. Basically, Dr Gunter says that 44 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 1: until there is more research abound how COVID might unpack 45 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:28,679 Speaker 1: somebody's period, we won't actually know for sure. So why 46 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 1: haven't doctor has been collecting this kind of data. Well, 47 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: it's kind of because the impact of vaccines administruation has 48 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: not been deemed worth studying by our medical field that 49 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: is so often dominated by men studying male bodies. But 50 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: in the absence of actual information, a slew of self 51 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: proclaimed health, wellness and spirituality experts on Instagram have stepped 52 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:53,919 Speaker 1: in to fill that gap with bad misinformation. Even worse, 53 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: many of them are spreading the idea that just coming 54 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 1: into contact with someone who has been vaccinated, even if 55 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 1: you have not gotten the vaccine yourself, can cause menstrual 56 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:06,239 Speaker 1: issues or miscarriage. I actually don't want to name names 57 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: here because honestly, I don't want these accounts getting more 58 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 1: attention and traction. But whatever you're conjuring up in your 59 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: head about the kind of women who run these accounts, 60 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: it is probably accurate. And I say this is someone 61 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: who is interested in a fair amount of woo woo 62 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,679 Speaker 1: spirituality stuff, which you can definitely ask me about because 63 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: I love talking about. These accounts used the guise of 64 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:26,519 Speaker 1: wellness and spirituality to mass the fact that they're actually 65 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 1: spreading potentially dangerous health misinformation. Many of them are just 66 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: repackaging good old fashioned conspiracy theories like that you shouldn't 67 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: trust public health officials, or that vaccines are really about 68 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: programming Americans and dressing them up in hippie dippy yoga chik. 69 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: One self proclaimed health and medical freedom enthusiast shared with 70 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: her more than sixty four thousand followers that many women 71 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: are quote catching menstrual regularities or miscarriages from being around 72 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: the recently vaccinated, and to their credit, Instagram added a 73 00:03:57,640 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: fact check to a viral video with almost half a 74 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: million views from a so called wellness expert warning that 75 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: women are miscarrying just from being around people who have 76 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: been vaccinated. So when we actually unpack this, it shows 77 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: us so much about how bad medical information travels online. 78 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: So disinformation is when someone intentionally spreads untrue information purposely 79 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 1: to mislead people. They know what they're saying isn't true, 80 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: but they want to cause confusion and chaos. But misinformation 81 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: is when someone spread something that isn't true and they 82 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: don't even realize what they're spreading isn't true. It's unintentional, 83 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 1: and it may even be well intentioned. Now, I suspect 84 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: that some of the women spreading bad information are doing 85 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: so because they're worried. They don't know if there's actually 86 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: truth to the idea that being around someone who's been 87 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,039 Speaker 1: vaccinated can cause a miscarriage, and they're probably thinking that 88 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: it's better safe than sorry to share what they've heard 89 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: with their followers. But people deserve accurate information about their health, 90 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 1: and self styled Instagram healers can cause a dangerous situation 91 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: if they're amplifying untrue health data. It's also hard because, 92 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: like I said ear here, the medical field tends to 93 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: understudy women and our bodies and our issues. Case in point, 94 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:07,160 Speaker 1: it's important for doctors to know of a fever is 95 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: a symptom of vaccination, but they've deemed it less important 96 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: to study that same vaccines impact on menstruation. If you're 97 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: used to medical issues that impact you being ignored, as 98 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: so many of us women are, it makes complete sense 99 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 1: that people would use whatever platform they have to start 100 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 1: the conversation. I get it, I really do. But on 101 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: the fliff side, the land of wellness Instagram influencers is 102 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 1: not always that well intentioned. Some people who call themselves 103 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 1: experts may very well be pushing COVID vaccine disinformation to 104 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 1: intentionally cash in. If you listen to the episode of 105 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: Disinformed with Foma Isoma, the former public policy lead at 106 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: Pinterest who worked to curb health misinformation on the platform, 107 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 1: She says that the majority of the time when someone 108 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:52,359 Speaker 1: is pushing bunk medical information on Pinterest, it was because 109 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: they were selling something supplements or essential oils, something that 110 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 1: they were pushing as a natural cure to an actual 111 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: medical problem. Here's a clip A point that I made 112 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: often because I get invited by the w h O, 113 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,799 Speaker 1: CDC and others to talk about this health misinformation work, 114 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 1: um that they had not thought about it as much 115 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: is the financial incentives that are tied to a lot 116 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: of misinformation, whether it's Alex Jones selling his nonsense T 117 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: shirts and supplements and whatever else. These people are scam artists. 118 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: That's their number Their number one job is scamming folks. 119 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 1: They use the values that people have, they use the 120 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: fears that people have to then sell their products. But 121 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, these are spammers and scammers, 122 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: and so you need to also be looking at what 123 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: it is that they're trying to push on your platform. 124 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: For almost every single health misinformation site, they were selling supplements. 125 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 1: So if you would address dangerous supplements on the platform 126 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: as spam, why would you not consider this at the 127 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: same level of harm to the platform and ultimately harm 128 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: to legitimate advertisers. I think that we're so used to 129 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: thinking about scammers as people, you know, selling fake Gucci 130 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: on the street, and like, no, it can people can 131 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: can scam online and they're misleading you in order to 132 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: to get you to buy whatever bullshit product they're hocking. 133 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: I would actually argue that the person is selling the 134 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: Gucci handbag that's fake, that's not harmful. You get a 135 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: cheaper bag if it's made well, it looks pretty good, 136 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: like you get a deal. They get a deal. Gucci 137 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: doesn't get a deal, but what do they need one for? Um? 138 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: But that's not harmful in the same way that telling parents, 139 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: and especially at the point at which most parents make 140 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: decisions about vaccines in the last trimester before they have 141 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: the kid, that they instead of getting a vaccine for 142 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: their child, which will save their child's life, they should 143 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: instead go buy your vitamin case supplement. That is so 144 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: harmful and dangerous in a way that we need to 145 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: take it more seriously. It's not a difference of opinion, 146 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: it's actually costing people's lives. And I have to say 147 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: at least one of the spiritual mom influencers I've mentioned 148 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: in this episode is currently selling spirituality workshops on how 149 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: to tap into your motherly intuition and heal your womb 150 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: for the low low cost of anywhere from a hundred 151 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: to three hundred and thirty or three dollars. And this 152 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,679 Speaker 1: is what really pisces me off. Women are already shamed 153 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: for speaking up about our miscarriages, our periods, our pain, 154 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 1: and our bodies, and the medical field often ignores us 155 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: when we do. And people are capitalizing on this culture 156 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: of stigma and shame to make themselves richer at the 157 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: expense of women who are just trying to sort out 158 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: who they can turn to for trustworthy health information. If 159 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 1: you enjoyed this podcast, please help us grow by subscribing. 160 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:06,199 Speaker 1: Got a story about an interesting thing in tech, or 161 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:08,079 Speaker 1: just want to say hi. We'd love to hear from 162 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: you at Hello at tango dot com. Disinformed is brought 163 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: to you by There Are No Girls on the Internet. 164 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,319 Speaker 1: It's a production of iHeart Radio and unbost Creative. Jonathan 165 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,559 Speaker 1: Strickland is our executive producer. Tory Harrison is our supervising 166 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:23,559 Speaker 1: producer and engineer. Michael Lamtto is our contributing producer. I'm 167 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: your host Bridget Tod. For more great podcasts, check out 168 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 1: the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get 169 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:29,559 Speaker 1: your podcasts.