1 00:00:00,210 --> 00:00:27,580 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,620 --> 00:00:30,860 Speaker 1: the show, fellow ridiculous historians. Thank you, as always, so 3 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,480 Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Let's hear it for the man, 4 00:00:33,540 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 1: the myth, the legend, our super producer, Mr. Max Williams. 5 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:39,770 Speaker 2: The X is silent. The second X, that is. 6 00:00:39,890 --> 00:00:43,450 Speaker 3: Do you guys know this about the other Max Williams? 7 00:00:44,010 --> 00:00:45,710 Speaker 2: I don't know about the other Max Williams at all. 8 00:00:45,750 --> 00:00:47,790 Speaker 1: You're Max Prime, as far as I'm concerned. 9 00:00:47,830 --> 00:00:48,050 Speaker 3: For sure. 10 00:00:48,070 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 4: So there is a Max Williams who played in the NFL. Okay. 11 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:56,380 Speaker 3: He has two X's instead of one X. 12 00:00:56,820 --> 00:00:57,900 Speaker 4: We have the same birthday. 13 00:00:58,100 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: What team does he play for? 14 00:00:59,220 --> 00:01:00,959 Speaker 4: He's out of the league now, I believe. 15 00:01:00,980 --> 00:01:02,180 Speaker 1: I think you mentioned this guy. 16 00:01:03,180 --> 00:01:05,230 Speaker 5: Well, Max, you may well know that when I refer 17 00:01:05,270 --> 00:01:09,470 Speaker 5: to you often in our work-related missives, I often refer 18 00:01:09,510 --> 00:01:11,930 Speaker 5: to you as Maximus with double X's. 19 00:01:12,170 --> 00:01:15,550 Speaker 2: So to me, the second X is... is silent. 20 00:01:16,330 --> 00:01:20,820 Speaker 1: That's more Max for your buck. Linguistically speaking, that's Mr. 21 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: Noel Brown, the one and only. They called me Ben 22 00:01:24,420 --> 00:01:29,900 Speaker 1: Bullen for several reasons. Guys, we are all language nerds 23 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:33,220 Speaker 1: here on Ridiculous History, so much so, in fact, that 24 00:01:33,340 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: peek behind the curtain, bit of a breaking of the 25 00:01:35,580 --> 00:01:41,300 Speaker 1: fourth wall, your pals Noel, Ben, and Lauren Vogelbaum have 26 00:01:41,330 --> 00:01:45,100 Speaker 1: spent years scheming on making an etymology show. 27 00:01:45,700 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 2: That's the study of insects, right? That's very close. 28 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:51,500 Speaker 1: It's entomology. 29 00:01:51,540 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 2: Damn it! You knew that. 30 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:53,940 Speaker 1: I did. 31 00:01:54,060 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 2: I'm being coy. Ben, I got a question for you. 32 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:57,420 Speaker 4: Yeah. 33 00:01:57,500 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 2: With the way I pronounce my name, Noel, isn't the 34 00:02:01,900 --> 00:02:03,180 Speaker 2: E technically silent? 35 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:05,510 Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of. It's an elided E. 36 00:02:05,940 --> 00:02:07,060 Speaker 2: If they call me Noel. 37 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:10,940 Speaker 5: which people often do, and I don't really bother correcting them, 38 00:02:10,970 --> 00:02:14,530 Speaker 5: then that would be a, what's the opposite of a 39 00:02:14,610 --> 00:02:15,150 Speaker 5: silent E? 40 00:02:15,290 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 2: A heard E, a perceived E? 41 00:02:17,530 --> 00:02:20,510 Speaker 1: It's crazy, man. It's one of those. What are those 42 00:02:20,590 --> 00:02:23,750 Speaker 1: old jokes? So a mnemonic I do to remember people's 43 00:02:23,810 --> 00:02:26,670 Speaker 1: names is when I shake their hand while I'm holding 44 00:02:26,710 --> 00:02:29,290 Speaker 1: their hand, I ask them to spell the name for me. 45 00:02:29,490 --> 00:02:30,510 Speaker 1: You've seen me do this. 46 00:02:30,650 --> 00:02:34,230 Speaker 5: I've seen you look deeply into their eyes, and yeah. 47 00:02:34,590 --> 00:02:36,450 Speaker 5: Is it Sarah with or without an H? 48 00:02:36,690 --> 00:02:37,350 Speaker 2: It's an intense exchange. 49 00:02:37,370 --> 00:02:39,750 Speaker 4: It's even weirder when he asks people to spell Ben 50 00:02:39,790 --> 00:02:40,089 Speaker 4: to him. 51 00:02:40,169 --> 00:02:41,530 Speaker 2: Yes, spell it back to me. 52 00:02:41,780 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: That's the joke, you guys, because they asked me to 53 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,260 Speaker 1: spell my name, and that's fine. That's quid pro quo. 54 00:02:47,730 --> 00:02:52,780 Speaker 1: And sometimes I'll say certain letters are silent. And that's 55 00:02:52,850 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: what inspired our research associate Ames for today's episode, Noel. 56 00:03:05,020 --> 00:03:08,799 Speaker 1: We often joke in this language, and sometimes we say 57 00:03:08,860 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: it seriously, we often say that English is very difficult 58 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: to learn because we have all sorts of tricky things 59 00:03:16,930 --> 00:03:21,130 Speaker 1: like we have a sentence that is one word with 60 00:03:21,190 --> 00:03:26,830 Speaker 1: different meanings. Buffalo, buffalo, buffalo, buffalo, buffalo, buffalo, buffalo. That's 61 00:03:26,870 --> 00:03:29,510 Speaker 1: a real sentence. This language is ridiculous. 62 00:03:29,730 --> 00:03:32,630 Speaker 2: It is, Ben, and I will say this. I've seen recently, 63 00:03:32,660 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 2: I want to say Japanese. 64 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:36,900 Speaker 5: It happens in a lot of languages where there will 65 00:03:36,940 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 5: be a word that sounds the same but is spelled 66 00:03:41,540 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 5: slightly differently, and you can basically say a whole sentence 67 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:45,100 Speaker 5: with the same word. 68 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:50,100 Speaker 2: Like multiple times. And that becomes the joke of the TikTok. Yeah. 69 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: And it gets funny too and tricky in tonal languages. 70 00:03:54,100 --> 00:03:58,500 Speaker 1: Like in Mandarin, I remember, there's a poem called something 71 00:03:58,540 --> 00:04:02,490 Speaker 1: like the stone lion. And it's the same sound, just 72 00:04:02,530 --> 00:04:05,350 Speaker 1: with different intonations. And it's kind of a long poem. 73 00:04:06,210 --> 00:04:10,810 Speaker 1: But also, you know, we have run into this repeatedly, Noel, 74 00:04:10,850 --> 00:04:15,540 Speaker 1: throughout our young lives. Questions like, Why are, to your point, 75 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:20,140 Speaker 1: read and read spelled the same? There's no way to 76 00:04:20,190 --> 00:04:25,370 Speaker 1: tell other than context clues. Why are our grammar rules 77 00:04:26,170 --> 00:04:28,470 Speaker 1: as messy as a drunk jazz band? 78 00:04:28,490 --> 00:04:30,050 Speaker 2: Ooh, I love a drunk jazz band. 79 00:04:30,089 --> 00:04:34,010 Speaker 5: Maybe they're also smoking some jazz cigarettes while they're at it. Ben, 80 00:04:34,050 --> 00:04:38,010 Speaker 5: it also reminds me of the quandary of learning German. 81 00:04:38,500 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 5: as a non-native speaker, where the gender of words changes 82 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 5: and oftentimes has nothing to do with the perceived gender 83 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:49,860 Speaker 5: of the word itself. It's something that you ultimately have 84 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:51,580 Speaker 5: to memorize along with the word. 85 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:52,820 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. 86 00:04:52,850 --> 00:04:57,070 Speaker 1: And that happens in Latin languages as well as Germanic languages. 87 00:04:57,810 --> 00:05:03,250 Speaker 1: Another plot twist, another little Shyamalan for all our English speakers. 88 00:05:03,310 --> 00:05:03,869 Speaker 2: Shyamalan Madigna. 89 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:08,339 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And folks like me and you, Noel, 90 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: who are still learning English, another plot twist is the 91 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:16,010 Speaker 1: idea of the infamous silent letter. I mean, why would you, 92 00:05:16,310 --> 00:05:20,390 Speaker 1: no offense to our French compadres, but why would you 93 00:05:21,310 --> 00:05:24,930 Speaker 1: have a bunch of letters in a word if they 94 00:05:24,990 --> 00:05:26,010 Speaker 1: are not pronounced? 95 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 5: It's a good question and one that I hope that 96 00:05:28,100 --> 00:05:31,550 Speaker 5: we get to the bottom of in this episode. I 97 00:05:31,589 --> 00:05:33,530 Speaker 5: got to say, Ben, when I first read the topic, 98 00:05:33,570 --> 00:05:35,910 Speaker 5: when AIM submitted this brief, I thought there was some 99 00:05:35,970 --> 00:05:42,580 Speaker 5: phenomenon of like wordless correspondence, silent letters, like using invisible 100 00:05:42,660 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 5: ink or something. 101 00:05:43,180 --> 00:05:45,849 Speaker 2: I don't know. Secret code? That's not the case. 102 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:48,900 Speaker 5: So the silent letter is one of the many mysterious 103 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,740 Speaker 5: parts of language, not just the English language. 104 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 2: We are going to mainly stick to the English language. 105 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:57,779 Speaker 5: Today that seems specifically designed to, you know, confuse people, 106 00:05:57,860 --> 00:06:03,130 Speaker 5: perplex people, and potentially make us lose our childhood spelling bees. 107 00:06:03,170 --> 00:06:06,049 Speaker 2: Ben, were you a childhood spelling bee competitor? 108 00:06:06,810 --> 00:06:07,170 Speaker 1: I was. 109 00:06:07,490 --> 00:06:08,409 Speaker 2: Yeah. How'd you do? 110 00:06:09,430 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 1: I did all right. I did all right, but then I— 111 00:06:14,580 --> 00:06:18,820 Speaker 1: At the risk of sounding too cool for school, the 112 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:19,460 Speaker 1: issue was. 113 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 2: Ben, you're in the spelling bee. You had no risk 114 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,300 Speaker 2: of being too cool for school. Thank you. Thank you, guys. 115 00:06:24,620 --> 00:06:28,619 Speaker 1: The issue was, you know, it's all about rote memorization. 116 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:30,020 Speaker 1: A lot of it is, for sure. And then clever 117 00:06:30,230 --> 00:06:32,980 Speaker 1: figuring out of context clues. But you're not. 118 00:06:34,550 --> 00:06:36,930 Speaker 1: It's not the same as learning literature. 119 00:06:36,950 --> 00:06:38,270 Speaker 2: I'm going to need you to use that word in 120 00:06:38,310 --> 00:06:40,650 Speaker 2: a sentence because that's clearly going to help. Well, you 121 00:06:40,670 --> 00:06:41,510 Speaker 2: know what? I'm joking. 122 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 5: But based on what we're talking about today, that could 123 00:06:44,900 --> 00:06:48,460 Speaker 5: absolutely inform because context can make a huge difference in 124 00:06:48,500 --> 00:06:50,980 Speaker 5: deciding whether or not a word has a silent letter 125 00:06:51,180 --> 00:06:51,380 Speaker 5: or not. 126 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,539 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the etymology, too, if you know something has 127 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:58,270 Speaker 1: Germanic roots or if you know it comes from Latin— 128 00:06:59,210 --> 00:07:01,930 Speaker 1: then that'll help you kind of suss out how the 129 00:07:02,010 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: pieces of the word fit together. And Noel, we had 130 00:07:05,180 --> 00:07:06,539 Speaker 1: Max pop on real quick. 131 00:07:06,580 --> 00:07:08,460 Speaker 2: He did pop and then he popped right on out. 132 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: There's something burning in your head about a spelling bee. 133 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:11,780 Speaker 2: Pop on back, man. 134 00:07:12,390 --> 00:07:13,870 Speaker 3: Oh, no, this is going to give you my take 135 00:07:13,940 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 3: on that. I think I competed in like one spelling 136 00:07:16,060 --> 00:07:19,140 Speaker 3: bee and I knew how to spell the word. But 137 00:07:19,180 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 3: my stage fright that I had in elementary school was 138 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 3: so much that I accidentally misspelled the word. 139 00:07:24,060 --> 00:07:27,030 Speaker 4: It was a very easy. And then I decided to 140 00:07:27,090 --> 00:07:27,570 Speaker 4: do theater. 141 00:07:27,750 --> 00:07:30,790 Speaker 2: There you go. Which has nothing to do with stage fright. Somehow. 142 00:07:31,470 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 2: I'm confused about this juxtaposition. I think I made it 143 00:07:36,010 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 2: to like. 144 00:07:37,060 --> 00:07:40,180 Speaker 5: The version of the spelling bee where I got to 145 00:07:40,220 --> 00:07:43,340 Speaker 5: compete on stage in my local elementary school, but I 146 00:07:43,380 --> 00:07:46,780 Speaker 5: did not advance any further. But I did advance to 147 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,900 Speaker 5: the semifinals of a Blockbuster Video-hosted NBA Jam tournament. 148 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:56,239 Speaker 1: Hey, he's on fire. And English is on fire as well. 149 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:00,239 Speaker 1: Just to rip the Band-Aid off here, folks. A lot 150 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:04,540 Speaker 1: of different cultures will tell you that their language is 151 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,940 Speaker 1: the most difficult to learn. It's a little bit self-centered 152 00:08:08,180 --> 00:08:10,780 Speaker 1: when you hear that, but it turns out that a 153 00:08:10,940 --> 00:08:14,300 Speaker 1: lot of languages outside of things like Esperanto and Toki 154 00:08:14,340 --> 00:08:20,020 Speaker 1: Pona are actually pretty difficult to acquire fluency in. And 155 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:22,260 Speaker 1: a lot of languages, to your point, Noel, they do 156 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: include silent letters. This is one of my favorite facts 157 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:31,500 Speaker 1: that Ames found. roughly 60% of English words include some 158 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 1: silent letter. 159 00:08:32,380 --> 00:08:35,210 Speaker 2: Dang, that's a lot. That's most of them. I had 160 00:08:35,260 --> 00:08:35,729 Speaker 2: no idea. 161 00:08:36,550 --> 00:08:42,290 Speaker 5: Cambridge, the dictionary wing of Cambridge, describes or defines a 162 00:08:42,309 --> 00:08:45,829 Speaker 5: silent letter as a letter in a word that is 163 00:08:45,890 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 5: written but not pronounced, such as B in doubt. 164 00:08:50,420 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 1: Or a lot of the letters in enough. 165 00:08:53,190 --> 00:08:54,630 Speaker 2: Mm-hmm, true. 166 00:08:54,750 --> 00:08:57,510 Speaker 5: The what of it all does seem a little simple 167 00:08:57,590 --> 00:09:01,069 Speaker 5: when you just look at that relatively straightforward definition, but 168 00:09:01,110 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 5: it is the sometimes why, which is a literacy joke, 169 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 5: that makes things a little more complex and, dare we say, 170 00:09:09,780 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 5: convoluted and, dare we further say, ridiculous. So why don't 171 00:09:13,780 --> 00:09:17,210 Speaker 5: we travel back to the Middle Ages and something called 172 00:09:17,590 --> 00:09:19,950 Speaker 5: the Great Vowel Shift, right? 173 00:09:20,670 --> 00:09:24,070 Speaker 1: Yes, and on the way, we're also going to have 174 00:09:24,090 --> 00:09:27,390 Speaker 1: to talk about how English is kind of a pirate language. 175 00:09:27,570 --> 00:09:29,070 Speaker 2: Boy, is it ever. A lot of borrowing. 176 00:09:29,410 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, it acquires a lot of stuff from other parts 177 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:37,140 Speaker 1: of the world and other tongues. So Britannica says, in 178 00:09:37,260 --> 00:09:42,220 Speaker 1: historical linguistics, great vowel shift is a series of significant 179 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:47,260 Speaker 1: and parallel changes in the articulation of long vowels in 180 00:09:47,450 --> 00:09:51,860 Speaker 1: English words. in particular, so vowels whose articulations are stressed 181 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:58,350 Speaker 1: and relatively longer than those of most other vowels. This 182 00:09:58,610 --> 00:10:02,660 Speaker 1: shift occurs from the 15th to the 18th century. It's 183 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: the big demarcation line between what we call middle English 184 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:08,300 Speaker 1: and early modern English. 185 00:10:08,460 --> 00:10:14,530 Speaker 2: Right, middle English being like, whoop-de-whoop-de-whoop-de-pooh, you know what I mean? 186 00:10:14,550 --> 00:10:19,230 Speaker 5: Right, and modern English being a little more blunt and aggressive. 187 00:10:19,370 --> 00:10:24,910 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's like, imagine reading the Canterbury Tales uh, 188 00:10:25,450 --> 00:10:26,929 Speaker 1: through Brooklyn dialect. 189 00:10:27,510 --> 00:10:30,270 Speaker 2: Which I would watch. It's a fun thing to do. Yeah. 190 00:10:30,309 --> 00:10:33,429 Speaker 2: Now the, the spelling, it really does kind of put, 191 00:10:33,570 --> 00:10:35,710 Speaker 2: do your head in a little bit. Some of the spellings. 192 00:10:36,110 --> 00:10:38,569 Speaker 1: It brings us, it brings us to, I think our 193 00:10:38,690 --> 00:10:40,810 Speaker 1: mutual favorite word for this episode. 194 00:10:40,929 --> 00:10:44,929 Speaker 2: It's so silly. Of course it's, it's a diphthong. Yeah. Yeah. 195 00:10:45,030 --> 00:10:48,730 Speaker 2: And not even, let's take it a step further. Yeah. Diphthongization. 196 00:10:49,670 --> 00:10:50,010 Speaker 1: Right. 197 00:10:50,330 --> 00:10:50,690 Speaker 2: Right. 198 00:10:51,250 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: Uh, This is the process that occurred during the great 199 00:10:55,179 --> 00:11:00,939 Speaker 1: vowel shift. I love how English has so many specific words. 200 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: German's a little better at it, but English has so 201 00:11:04,460 --> 00:11:10,660 Speaker 1: many words that you will just never use. Diphthongization, as 202 00:11:10,700 --> 00:11:15,070 Speaker 1: you were saying, Noel, is a gliding monosyllabic speech sound 203 00:11:15,510 --> 00:11:18,689 Speaker 1: like the vowel combination at the end of toy or the, 204 00:11:18,890 --> 00:11:22,810 Speaker 1: I would say, the O-E inside your name. It starts 205 00:11:23,070 --> 00:11:27,790 Speaker 1: at or near the articulatory position for one vowel. And 206 00:11:27,870 --> 00:11:30,890 Speaker 1: soon as you know it, it moves toward the position 207 00:11:31,110 --> 00:11:32,130 Speaker 1: of the other vowel. 208 00:11:32,270 --> 00:11:36,390 Speaker 2: It's that dip thong for thong, thong, thong. Not to 209 00:11:36,410 --> 00:11:40,790 Speaker 2: be confused with Cisco's famed work on the thong song. 210 00:11:41,750 --> 00:11:43,459 Speaker 1: His episode of Cribs was so weird. 211 00:11:43,929 --> 00:11:45,970 Speaker 5: He's an interesting cat. Did he have his head spray 212 00:11:45,990 --> 00:11:47,530 Speaker 5: painted silver in that episode? 213 00:11:47,770 --> 00:11:50,570 Speaker 1: I think he was, I think he had a, don't 214 00:11:50,610 --> 00:11:51,910 Speaker 1: quote me on this, but I think he had a 215 00:11:52,010 --> 00:11:56,980 Speaker 1: yellowish or blonde wife at that time. Uh, Yeah, he 216 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: just had he had a very strange moment on Cribs 217 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: when he was talking about his bidet. 218 00:12:02,820 --> 00:12:03,579 Speaker 2: Oh, well, you know what? 219 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:05,020 Speaker 5: He was ahead of the curve when it comes to 220 00:12:05,059 --> 00:12:07,210 Speaker 5: bidets because, well, I don't know. We're still a little 221 00:12:07,250 --> 00:12:08,910 Speaker 5: behind the curve when it comes to bidets. But I 222 00:12:08,950 --> 00:12:12,110 Speaker 5: think you and I are both both fans from way back, 223 00:12:12,170 --> 00:12:14,290 Speaker 5: but not as far back as Cisco. And I'm sure 224 00:12:14,350 --> 00:12:16,550 Speaker 5: he had some very specific reasons that he enjoyed. 225 00:12:17,350 --> 00:12:20,150 Speaker 2: He goes into detail. I bet he does. 226 00:12:20,170 --> 00:12:26,170 Speaker 1: He uses a lot of diphthongs and a lot of 227 00:12:26,370 --> 00:12:35,510 Speaker 1: close vowels. Noel, what is a close vowel? 228 00:12:38,370 --> 00:12:42,230 Speaker 5: Well, we were talking about referring to a language as 229 00:12:42,330 --> 00:12:45,790 Speaker 5: a tongue, of course. And that is because you got 230 00:12:45,820 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 5: to use that thing to make sounds with your mouth. 231 00:12:49,380 --> 00:12:51,719 Speaker 2: And it became a little bit, I don't know if 232 00:12:51,740 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 2: this is like, it almost makes me, not evolutionarily, but 233 00:12:55,570 --> 00:12:57,660 Speaker 2: like what caused this? It's very interesting. 234 00:12:57,740 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 5: The defining characteristic with closed vowel is this idea of 235 00:13:00,980 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 5: the tongue being positioned as close as possible to the 236 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:07,210 Speaker 5: roof of the mouth, as close rather as it can 237 00:13:07,250 --> 00:13:12,170 Speaker 5: be without creating a constriction. Constriction would produce a sound 238 00:13:12,190 --> 00:13:16,490 Speaker 5: that would be classified as a consonant or a hard 239 00:13:16,950 --> 00:13:23,510 Speaker 5: K type sound. An example of diphthongization in action is 240 00:13:23,570 --> 00:13:27,250 Speaker 5: the word meet, which was originally pronounced Meat. 241 00:13:27,809 --> 00:13:28,130 Speaker 2: Meat. 242 00:13:28,650 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: Free thee thou meat. 243 00:13:30,130 --> 00:13:31,940 Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. Then evolves. 244 00:13:32,300 --> 00:13:34,700 Speaker 5: So I guess it's not really a physical evolution, but 245 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 5: it's just more of an evolution of the way sounds 246 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:43,340 Speaker 5: are created to the current pronunciation meat. Our tongues gradually 247 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,410 Speaker 5: over time began to move higher in the mouth, which 248 00:13:46,570 --> 00:13:49,510 Speaker 5: changed the way that certain vowels were pronounced. 249 00:13:50,130 --> 00:13:50,510 Speaker 2: Yeah. 250 00:13:50,590 --> 00:13:53,490 Speaker 1: And folks, you can play along at home. So creep 251 00:13:53,590 --> 00:13:57,270 Speaker 1: everybody out. who is not hearing this because you're listening 252 00:13:57,429 --> 00:14:02,130 Speaker 1: on headphones, play along as we say this. Some vowels 253 00:14:02,330 --> 00:14:06,370 Speaker 1: are pronounced with your tongue high, like the vowel in C. 254 00:14:07,030 --> 00:14:08,070 Speaker 1: Do you feel where your tongue is? 255 00:14:08,330 --> 00:14:10,050 Speaker 2: Say it, C. There it is. 256 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:15,079 Speaker 5: Yeah, it is kind of involuntarily, like right there on 257 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 5: the tip of the roof of the mouth. 258 00:14:16,700 --> 00:14:20,220 Speaker 1: We don't think about it, right? And others, other vowels 259 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:24,810 Speaker 1: are pronounced lower, like the vowel in O. Father. So C, 260 00:14:25,170 --> 00:14:28,530 Speaker 1: our tongue is high. Father, our tongue is lower. And that's, 261 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:33,020 Speaker 1: I'm influencing it a little bit with my tone. Max, 262 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: what you got? 263 00:14:33,460 --> 00:14:36,340 Speaker 4: Oh, I'm just over here doing it, but on my 264 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:37,060 Speaker 4: mic silent. 265 00:14:37,140 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 2: Practicing. 266 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: So, all right. 267 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 2: Father. 268 00:14:41,420 --> 00:14:42,250 Speaker 1: See, you feel it? 269 00:14:42,900 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's weird. 270 00:14:44,020 --> 00:14:46,980 Speaker 1: Yeah, during the, and we've just gotten into your heads, folks, 271 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:51,550 Speaker 1: during the great vowel shift. Those long vowels gradually moved 272 00:14:51,870 --> 00:14:55,550 Speaker 1: upward in this positional scale. When a vowel reached the 273 00:14:55,590 --> 00:14:58,450 Speaker 1: top and could not move any higher, that's when it 274 00:14:58,490 --> 00:15:03,210 Speaker 1: changed into a diphthong. That's the sound that glides between 275 00:15:03,390 --> 00:15:05,850 Speaker 1: two vowels, like piano or knoll. 276 00:15:06,340 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 5: And this comes from a nice blog entry, The Great 277 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:13,300 Speaker 5: Vowel Shift When English Vowels Quietly Moved by Matthew Weinberg. 278 00:15:13,860 --> 00:15:19,610 Speaker 2: Some good writing on this blog. ProfessorMatthew, M-A-T-T-W dot com. Yeah, yeah. 279 00:15:19,790 --> 00:15:22,370 Speaker 1: And that's a great shout out because it leads us 280 00:15:22,470 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: to another mystery. Even the experts like Professor Weinberg are 281 00:15:27,740 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: not sure why the great vowel shift happened. There's a 282 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,820 Speaker 1: ton of debate on the exact timeline, which is why 283 00:15:34,980 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: our window from the 15th to the 18th century is 284 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:43,060 Speaker 1: so wide. But the fact remains that English pronunciation did change. 285 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: And in that change, we also see the arrival of 286 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: many silent letters. 287 00:15:50,540 --> 00:15:51,540 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. 288 00:15:52,580 --> 00:15:56,490 Speaker 5: Think of the word bite, for example, pre great vowel shift. 289 00:15:56,620 --> 00:16:01,310 Speaker 5: It was pronounced again, like a beat, a beat. We 290 00:16:01,350 --> 00:16:03,650 Speaker 5: always do that little voice when we do. 291 00:16:04,970 --> 00:16:07,570 Speaker 1: I don't know why we act like everybody. 292 00:16:08,550 --> 00:16:10,420 Speaker 2: Yeah. 293 00:16:10,460 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 1: That part of history, we act like every one of 294 00:16:12,460 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: them had, had a wheezy reedy voice. 295 00:16:15,420 --> 00:16:19,060 Speaker 5: And likely suffered from hemophilia and very pale, very pale 296 00:16:19,260 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 5: people back. 297 00:16:19,860 --> 00:16:23,140 Speaker 2: In those days. They were pale punch. At least in 298 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:24,780 Speaker 2: our recreation of it. But yeah, beat. 299 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,700 Speaker 5: So that effectively touched every single letter in the word 300 00:16:30,220 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 5: as opposed to that sort of gliding that we're talking about. 301 00:16:34,140 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 5: Post great vowel shift, we pronounce the word like bite. 302 00:16:37,580 --> 00:16:38,980 Speaker 5: So we sort of combine some sounds. 303 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:40,900 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. 304 00:16:41,180 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: And the E persists. despite the fact that you don't 305 00:16:44,860 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: really need it. 306 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,780 Speaker 5: Sometimes these E's or these silent letters are just kind 307 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 5: of historical hangers-on. 308 00:16:50,420 --> 00:16:56,610 Speaker 1: They're artifacts that legacy hires, right? Because the spoken language, 309 00:16:56,670 --> 00:17:01,630 Speaker 1: all languages are living technology. The spoken language was evolving 310 00:17:01,730 --> 00:17:04,490 Speaker 1: due to all sorts of factors, but the written word 311 00:17:04,690 --> 00:17:06,850 Speaker 1: was much slower on the uptake. 312 00:17:06,950 --> 00:17:09,550 Speaker 5: And we do often talk about how legislation often lags 313 00:17:09,609 --> 00:17:12,510 Speaker 5: behind technology. Not that this is a direct one-to-one, but 314 00:17:12,910 --> 00:17:15,650 Speaker 5: we do need to remember that language is. 315 00:17:15,590 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 2: A form of technology and it often has to kind 316 00:17:17,630 --> 00:17:18,949 Speaker 2: of catch up with the times. 317 00:17:19,540 --> 00:17:23,300 Speaker 1: That's a great point, Noel. And it's also, so we 318 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,220 Speaker 1: have the great vowel shift. That definitely gave you some 319 00:17:26,260 --> 00:17:28,780 Speaker 1: of the silent words that ruined your spelling bee, but 320 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: that's not the only culprit involved. We have to go 321 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,530 Speaker 1: back to the point we teased earlier So many words 322 00:17:36,830 --> 00:17:40,910 Speaker 1: in modern English have been borrowed from other languages, from 323 00:17:41,170 --> 00:17:44,490 Speaker 1: people who were in the area in the times before 324 00:17:44,770 --> 00:17:50,330 Speaker 1: or contemporaneously. French, Latin, Greek kept the original spelling. They 325 00:17:50,350 --> 00:17:53,850 Speaker 1: have no corresponding letter in English for the way they 326 00:17:53,890 --> 00:17:58,810 Speaker 1: were pronounced in their native tongue. Like the Greek letter Rho, R-H-O. 327 00:17:59,090 --> 00:18:04,070 Speaker 1: It's R or R-H in Latin. It gets merged as 328 00:18:04,130 --> 00:18:07,150 Speaker 1: a simple R in English, and it leads to crazy 329 00:18:07,210 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: spellings like arrhythmic. 330 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,340 Speaker 5: For sure, which is one I always have to check 331 00:18:11,380 --> 00:18:14,379 Speaker 5: myself on. Rhythm and arrhythmic, I always mess it up. 332 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,479 Speaker 5: There's a letter in there that I always leave out. Psi, 333 00:18:17,619 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 5: for example, from Greek, has been kind of truncated into 334 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 5: just the letter P. And S, such as in the 335 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,980 Speaker 5: word psychology. So one sound now becomes two. 336 00:18:30,710 --> 00:18:33,340 Speaker 1: Yeah, and throw a Y in there, because why not? 337 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 2: Why not? 338 00:18:34,619 --> 00:18:38,140 Speaker 1: And then, of course, you've got classic hits like Tsunami, 339 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: which starts with a T because it's a Japanese word, 340 00:18:42,140 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 1: and in Japanese language, you have a different set of sounds, right, 341 00:18:48,260 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 1: and a different set of vowels. Psychology, of course, comes 342 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:58,710 Speaker 1: from Greek. The consonant combinations in Tsunami and in Psychology 343 00:18:58,730 --> 00:19:03,629 Speaker 1: are They're not used to start basic words in English. 344 00:19:04,290 --> 00:19:07,730 Speaker 1: And as a result, the first letters become silent so 345 00:19:07,790 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: that tsunami and psychology can blend in with the rest 346 00:19:13,380 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: of the nomenclature crowd. 347 00:19:15,700 --> 00:19:17,959 Speaker 5: Shout out to the real reason some English words have 348 00:19:18,020 --> 00:19:20,159 Speaker 5: silent letters by Claire Nowak. 349 00:19:21,380 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 2: Maybe it's Novak. I'm just going to say it's a W. 350 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,090 Speaker 2: Maybe the K is silent. I don't think it is. 351 00:19:27,850 --> 00:19:31,640 Speaker 2: From Reader's Digest, a trusted friend in a complicated world, 352 00:19:31,820 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 2: which is a great. 353 00:19:35,900 --> 00:19:40,660 Speaker 1: Tagline. There was also this moment in history where English 354 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:45,190 Speaker 1: had a huge chip on its shoulders because English was 355 00:19:45,270 --> 00:19:49,340 Speaker 1: thought to be, for very long time, a vulgar common tongue. 356 00:19:49,420 --> 00:19:52,820 Speaker 1: It was not the fancy, the fancy language of the 357 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 1: learned reading and speaking Latin and Greek. So people who 358 00:19:57,590 --> 00:19:59,750 Speaker 1: wanted to be on the up and up in society 359 00:19:59,910 --> 00:20:03,449 Speaker 1: would study Latin and Greek in school. They'd study the classics, 360 00:20:04,150 --> 00:20:07,690 Speaker 1: but the issue was not everybody was able to afford 361 00:20:07,710 --> 00:20:10,220 Speaker 1: to go to a fancy school and And as literacy 362 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:15,120 Speaker 1: became more popular, people wanted to read books in the 363 00:20:15,180 --> 00:20:18,540 Speaker 1: language they spoke and understood. So they wanted more stuff 364 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:19,159 Speaker 1: in English. 365 00:20:19,180 --> 00:20:21,160 Speaker 2: The common tongue, right? The common tongue. 366 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,149 Speaker 5: Yeah, because it makes sense because, I mean, Latin and 367 00:20:23,190 --> 00:20:28,290 Speaker 5: Greek could maybe be considered more pure languages, you know, 368 00:20:28,650 --> 00:20:30,790 Speaker 5: whereas to your point, Ben, English is sort of like 369 00:20:30,830 --> 00:20:32,790 Speaker 5: a hodgepodge melting pot. 370 00:20:33,530 --> 00:20:36,689 Speaker 2: So there is a certain amount of, I don't know, 371 00:20:37,570 --> 00:20:42,030 Speaker 2: Not quite xenophobia wrapped up in this distinction, but something 372 00:20:42,109 --> 00:20:43,109 Speaker 2: along those lines. 373 00:20:43,750 --> 00:20:46,530 Speaker 1: Yeah, and shout out to Erika Okrent over at the 374 00:20:46,590 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: History News Network who points out that authors who are 375 00:20:52,300 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 1: trying to make a living and always trying to get 376 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:59,020 Speaker 1: their stuff read, they said, okay, I will write in 377 00:20:59,100 --> 00:21:02,100 Speaker 1: English because I can sell more stuff that way, but 378 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:06,300 Speaker 1: I am going to write a disclaimer, essentially, at the 379 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: top of my book to explain why I am writing 380 00:21:09,660 --> 00:21:14,429 Speaker 1: in English, and I will apologize, as one translation put it, 381 00:21:14,700 --> 00:21:18,310 Speaker 1: for our gross tongue is a rude and barren tongue. 382 00:21:18,630 --> 00:21:20,870 Speaker 5: You know what a term I really enjoy for languages 383 00:21:20,930 --> 00:21:23,610 Speaker 5: like ours? I think it's often used specifically to refer 384 00:21:23,630 --> 00:21:25,590 Speaker 5: to English, but a bastard tongue. 385 00:21:25,910 --> 00:21:26,869 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah. 386 00:21:26,890 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 5: Which refers to, it's an informal kind of colloquialism to 387 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:35,910 Speaker 5: describe a language that contains mixed, you know, borrowed or 388 00:21:36,030 --> 00:21:40,950 Speaker 5: heavily influenced words and syntax from other languages rather than 389 00:21:41,100 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 5: evolving in isolation. But as we know, Ben, not much 390 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 5: evolves in isolation, you know, over time. 391 00:21:47,220 --> 00:21:49,699 Speaker 1: Not even the folks at North Sentinel Island. And if 392 00:21:49,740 --> 00:21:53,460 Speaker 1: you're listening, thanks for tuning in. Explain to us how 393 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:58,420 Speaker 1: you got a podcast. So also writers being a somewhat 394 00:21:58,740 --> 00:22:01,290 Speaker 1: high-nosed insecure bunch. 395 00:22:01,790 --> 00:22:04,150 Speaker 2: Their noses and their brows are both high tie. 396 00:22:04,190 --> 00:22:07,810 Speaker 1: Yeah, high brow, high nose. I love it. They wanted 397 00:22:07,910 --> 00:22:12,820 Speaker 1: to make their work look legitimate, look, in other words, fancy. 398 00:22:12,859 --> 00:22:15,980 Speaker 1: So they would borrow words from Latin. They would do 399 00:22:16,060 --> 00:22:19,640 Speaker 1: that thing that James Joyce does later where they would 400 00:22:19,700 --> 00:22:27,399 Speaker 1: smash Latin words together, higgledy-piggledy. These would become what we 401 00:22:27,420 --> 00:22:31,340 Speaker 1: call inkhorn terms. This is one of the roots of 402 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,530 Speaker 1: the weirdly specific words we were mentioning earlier. They are 403 00:22:35,550 --> 00:22:38,429 Speaker 1: derived from Latin or Greek. They're kind of freestyled or 404 00:22:38,510 --> 00:22:44,290 Speaker 1: jazzed upon, and they are used much more. Jazzed upon? 405 00:22:44,910 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. 406 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,540 Speaker 1: They're used much more in writing than in speech. That's 407 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:54,400 Speaker 1: from encyclopedia.com, and sometimes these authors would even add extra 408 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 1: letters to words they stole from French. to make it 409 00:22:58,850 --> 00:23:04,969 Speaker 1: seem more impressive, basically. That's why we mentioned doubt, the 410 00:23:04,990 --> 00:23:07,409 Speaker 1: word doubt, or the word debt. Why is there a 411 00:23:07,410 --> 00:23:07,770 Speaker 1: B there? 412 00:23:08,090 --> 00:23:09,150 Speaker 2: Why? Why? 413 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: Why? The authors who popularized those words in specific or 414 00:23:14,859 --> 00:23:19,179 Speaker 1: those spellings put the B in there because they wanted 415 00:23:19,270 --> 00:23:23,930 Speaker 1: people to know they knew the Latin etymology. They knew 416 00:23:23,970 --> 00:23:28,410 Speaker 1: that debt comes from debitum and doubt comes from dubitare. 417 00:23:29,150 --> 00:23:30,550 Speaker 1: And so they were like, I'm going to put a 418 00:23:30,650 --> 00:23:33,389 Speaker 1: B in there. So everybody knows that even if I'm 419 00:23:33,430 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: writing in English, your boy's aware of Latin. It's just, 420 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: it's a weird cell phone, I think. But it also 421 00:23:44,820 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 1: didn't seem to be important to these authors and these 422 00:23:49,740 --> 00:23:54,090 Speaker 1: early writers to whether or not the Latin origins were true. 423 00:23:54,490 --> 00:24:01,250 Speaker 1: For example, there's this historical evidence of people attempting to 424 00:24:01,310 --> 00:24:06,570 Speaker 1: force this crossover without much backing to support their ideas 425 00:24:06,670 --> 00:24:11,340 Speaker 1: or their new spin on words. Like the word island, I-S-L-A-N-D, 426 00:24:11,780 --> 00:24:15,940 Speaker 1: it comes from an old English word, igland. Just replace 427 00:24:15,980 --> 00:24:18,879 Speaker 1: the S with a G, but it gained an S 428 00:24:19,500 --> 00:24:23,670 Speaker 1: because there was this incorrect notion that if you added 429 00:24:23,730 --> 00:24:27,690 Speaker 1: the S, it would hearken back to the Latin word insula, 430 00:24:28,270 --> 00:24:32,379 Speaker 1: and then everybody reading would be like, holy smokes, this 431 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,439 Speaker 1: guy writes in English, but he definitely knows Latin. He 432 00:24:35,460 --> 00:24:39,109 Speaker 1: probably didn't, because there's no relationship between those words. 433 00:24:46,109 --> 00:24:46,650 Speaker 2: That's right. 434 00:24:47,030 --> 00:24:49,910 Speaker 5: And some of these silent letters actually stuck around, like 435 00:24:49,950 --> 00:24:54,030 Speaker 5: the P in receipt, for example, while others eventually were, 436 00:24:54,050 --> 00:24:58,129 Speaker 5: you know, dropped, as is the case with the word deceit. 437 00:24:59,160 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: Hmm. 438 00:24:59,980 --> 00:25:00,260 Speaker 5: Yeah. 439 00:25:00,700 --> 00:25:05,159 Speaker 2: Deceit. Receipts? Deceit. Yeah. D-E-C-E-I-T. I imagine it used to 440 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:06,360 Speaker 2: have a E-I-P-T. 441 00:25:06,980 --> 00:25:07,580 Speaker 4: Yeah. 442 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,590 Speaker 2: Which is funny because then there's the deception, of course. 443 00:25:10,869 --> 00:25:11,189 Speaker 1: Yep. 444 00:25:11,450 --> 00:25:13,770 Speaker 2: Exactly. It does add a P in. 445 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,300 Speaker 1: What a messy bowl of spaghetti. Really beautiful language of ours. 446 00:25:17,380 --> 00:25:21,660 Speaker 1: So this comes into this comes into sharp relief with 447 00:25:21,700 --> 00:25:25,510 Speaker 1: the invention of the printing press, because before we had 448 00:25:25,910 --> 00:25:31,890 Speaker 1: mass printed media, people just kind of freestyled on how 449 00:25:32,030 --> 00:25:35,109 Speaker 1: word was spelled. And most people were not writing stuff down. 450 00:25:35,150 --> 00:25:37,910 Speaker 1: They were talking to each other. They were hearing each other. 451 00:25:37,930 --> 00:25:43,260 Speaker 1: So The emphasis was on oral communication. Get your point 452 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:44,780 Speaker 1: across that. The oral tradition. 453 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 4: Yeah. 454 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,500 Speaker 1: So there's no single correct spelling. That's why if you 455 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: are a student in high school or in your English 456 00:25:57,060 --> 00:26:01,530 Speaker 1: courses in undergrad and you're looking at very old instances 457 00:26:01,609 --> 00:26:04,710 Speaker 1: of English canon, you're going to see a lot of 458 00:26:04,810 --> 00:26:08,719 Speaker 1: crazy spelling, like physic. I think we both love physic 459 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 1: from early medical text where they were just throwing Ks 460 00:26:13,300 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 1: left and right. You can see a word in multiple 461 00:26:16,380 --> 00:26:21,660 Speaker 1: forms because writing was done by hand, usually in monasteries, 462 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,550 Speaker 1: and they were doing their best to reflect on the 463 00:26:25,590 --> 00:26:30,170 Speaker 1: page the way people spoke around them. So if somebody 464 00:26:30,210 --> 00:26:34,530 Speaker 1: had an accent in Northumbria and the monk there was 465 00:26:34,609 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 1: writing down what they said, It would be possibly very 466 00:26:38,660 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: different from the monastery over in Wessex, who would be 467 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: spelling it the way they heard it. 468 00:26:43,820 --> 00:26:46,780 Speaker 2: Well, it's fascinating, man, because sometimes it goes in the 469 00:26:46,820 --> 00:26:48,300 Speaker 2: opposite direction. 470 00:26:48,380 --> 00:26:52,300 Speaker 5: Whereas, you know, with physic, for example, we have turned 471 00:26:52,340 --> 00:26:55,419 Speaker 5: it into physics, adding an S. Whereas over here in 472 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 5: the U.S., we say math, but in the U.K., they 473 00:26:57,770 --> 00:26:58,440 Speaker 5: say maths. 474 00:26:58,460 --> 00:27:01,100 Speaker 2: Yeah. They mean the same thing. 475 00:27:01,180 --> 00:27:04,160 Speaker 5: They're both, you know, a study of, you know, numbers, 476 00:27:04,300 --> 00:27:08,400 Speaker 5: whereas physic referred to– oftentimes it would refer to medicine 477 00:27:08,460 --> 00:27:09,850 Speaker 5: as well, if I'm not mistaken. 478 00:27:09,910 --> 00:27:09,990 Speaker 2: Yes. 479 00:27:10,010 --> 00:27:13,129 Speaker 5: Like in the olden times. But it kind of evolved 480 00:27:13,290 --> 00:27:17,010 Speaker 5: to refer to a more high study of mathematics and 481 00:27:17,030 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 5: its place in the universe and, you know, various other 482 00:27:20,420 --> 00:27:23,439 Speaker 5: elements that, you know, the movement of the planets and 483 00:27:23,540 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 5: things like that. It evolved, of course, but sometimes you'll 484 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:31,340 Speaker 5: have these historical remnants kind of stick around or get transposed. 485 00:27:31,859 --> 00:27:34,820 Speaker 5: There's a really great piece that Ames linked us to 486 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 5: on wordstrivia.com, Why English Spelling Got Frozen in Time, The 487 00:27:39,619 --> 00:27:42,300 Speaker 5: History Behind Silent Letters. And they put it really well, 488 00:27:42,460 --> 00:27:45,500 Speaker 5: I think, saying that silent letters are not random mistakes. 489 00:27:45,580 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 5: They are historical leftovers. They show where English has been, 490 00:27:49,060 --> 00:27:52,869 Speaker 5: who influenced it, and how spelling became frozen while speech 491 00:27:53,109 --> 00:27:53,690 Speaker 5: kept moving. 492 00:27:54,340 --> 00:27:58,399 Speaker 1: There we go, summing it up really well. And here 493 00:27:58,540 --> 00:28:02,540 Speaker 1: at this point in history, we enter a slow motion 494 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:07,660 Speaker 1: crowdsourcing phenomenon because you've got people spelling words three, four 495 00:28:07,780 --> 00:28:11,770 Speaker 1: different ways, cats and dogs sleeping together, pandemonium on the page. 496 00:28:12,180 --> 00:28:17,130 Speaker 1: So we have to decide how to codify and uniformize 497 00:28:17,190 --> 00:28:20,150 Speaker 1: some of this stuff. Some spellings just end up being 498 00:28:20,190 --> 00:28:23,070 Speaker 1: more popular than others. They make more sense to the 499 00:28:23,130 --> 00:28:26,629 Speaker 1: most people. and they become the default as a result. 500 00:28:27,330 --> 00:28:29,649 Speaker 1: And then also a lot of writers back in the 501 00:28:29,710 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: day are their own biggest audience. So they're writing for 502 00:28:33,780 --> 00:28:37,540 Speaker 1: other writers, and they all love a fancy pants word. 503 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: So those are the spellings that often end up in 504 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:46,350 Speaker 1: print and therefore become the law of the lands. But Noel, 505 00:28:46,410 --> 00:28:49,870 Speaker 1: I think at this point, you and Max and I 506 00:28:50,110 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: are Just going to accept silent letters. I remember reading 507 00:28:55,420 --> 00:29:00,770 Speaker 1: some madcap experiments over the centuries from people who wanted 508 00:29:00,870 --> 00:29:05,410 Speaker 1: to improve the language by cutting out the letters. Remember 509 00:29:05,450 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: when Ben Franklin got his britches up and said he 510 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,890 Speaker 1: was going to fix the alphabet? by removing certain letters. 511 00:29:12,970 --> 00:29:16,050 Speaker 5: That didn't really take. Some of his stuff did, but 512 00:29:16,070 --> 00:29:18,830 Speaker 5: not all ideas are bangers. I want to get back 513 00:29:18,870 --> 00:29:20,820 Speaker 5: to physics for a second because it's a really good 514 00:29:20,860 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 5: example of how some silent letters can really differentiate between 515 00:29:24,980 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 5: two similar sounding words and what they actually refer to. 516 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 5: They can also help identify which syllables should be emphasized 517 00:29:31,860 --> 00:29:37,230 Speaker 5: in a particular word, not to mention their different definitions. Physics, 518 00:29:37,390 --> 00:29:41,260 Speaker 5: of course, P-H-Y-S-I-C-S versus physiques. 519 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:43,460 Speaker 2: Physics being the study. 520 00:29:43,220 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 5: Of, you know, what I was mentioning earlier, mathematics and 521 00:29:46,100 --> 00:29:49,030 Speaker 5: the heavens and all of that stuff, celestial bodies. 522 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,310 Speaker 2: I know I'm way simplifying the concept of physics. It's 523 00:29:52,370 --> 00:29:57,330 Speaker 2: close enough. It's perfect. Physiques, of course, refers to you know, 524 00:29:57,610 --> 00:30:03,030 Speaker 2: your physical body and it's kind of makeup or level 525 00:30:03,050 --> 00:30:05,060 Speaker 2: of physical fitness, sort of like if you have a 526 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 2: good physique or, you know, a shabby physique. 527 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. When we usually use physics physique, excuse me, in 528 00:30:12,780 --> 00:30:17,570 Speaker 1: modern English, it has a positive connotation. You don't see 529 00:30:17,650 --> 00:30:19,450 Speaker 1: too many people saying, and he. 530 00:30:19,390 --> 00:30:22,470 Speaker 2: Had a horrid physique, but that'd be cool. 531 00:30:22,490 --> 00:30:24,230 Speaker 1: I'm going to write that down. We should use that later. 532 00:30:24,850 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: We also know that silent letters help us as speakers 533 00:30:29,300 --> 00:30:33,780 Speaker 1: and readers to navigate the vast labyrinthine chasm of homophones, 534 00:30:34,140 --> 00:30:37,580 Speaker 1: words that sound alike but have wildly different meanings. So 535 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:42,450 Speaker 1: right versus right. That's confusing if you hear it on 536 00:30:42,470 --> 00:30:46,130 Speaker 1: a purely audio or oral format, but if you read 537 00:30:46,190 --> 00:30:49,610 Speaker 1: it and you see that one of those pronunciations has 538 00:30:50,170 --> 00:30:56,180 Speaker 1: W-R-I-T-E and the other has R-I-G-H-T, then that helps you immensely. 539 00:30:56,380 --> 00:31:00,540 Speaker 2: Ben, remind me what a homonym is versus a homophone. 540 00:31:01,100 --> 00:31:06,150 Speaker 1: So a homophone is like right or right, two very 541 00:31:06,210 --> 00:31:09,150 Speaker 1: different words that can be spelled differently but sound the same. 542 00:31:09,550 --> 00:31:12,710 Speaker 1: A homonym is a word that has the same spelling 543 00:31:13,890 --> 00:31:17,479 Speaker 1: or the same pronunciation or both as another word but 544 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: as a completely different meaning. So read and read means 545 00:31:21,310 --> 00:31:22,050 Speaker 1: Could be homonyms. 546 00:31:22,470 --> 00:31:25,870 Speaker 2: Oh, exactly. Close and close. Thank you for. 547 00:31:25,230 --> 00:31:29,260 Speaker 5: Reminding me of my elementary school education. 548 00:31:29,300 --> 00:31:30,860 Speaker 2: It's all coming back to me now. But I would 549 00:31:30,900 --> 00:31:34,459 Speaker 2: argue that homonyms are extra confusing for people who do 550 00:31:34,500 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 2: not speak the language natively. At least homophones, like if 551 00:31:38,260 --> 00:31:41,430 Speaker 2: you're reading it, it's pretty clear that these are different words. Yeah. 552 00:31:41,590 --> 00:31:44,430 Speaker 1: I'll always remember one of my old professors who lives 553 00:31:44,490 --> 00:31:48,810 Speaker 1: in Japan now, he's a native Japanese speaker. He had 554 00:31:48,850 --> 00:31:51,590 Speaker 1: this hilarious moment where we were kind of in our cups, 555 00:31:51,630 --> 00:31:54,030 Speaker 1: to be honest, and he was breaking down how he 556 00:31:54,070 --> 00:31:57,890 Speaker 1: thought English was, beat me here, Max, bullshit. And his 557 00:31:57,970 --> 00:32:01,210 Speaker 1: first piece of evidence was that he thought bullshit was 558 00:32:01,250 --> 00:32:03,550 Speaker 1: a weird word. Thank you, Max. And then he said, 559 00:32:03,850 --> 00:32:08,470 Speaker 1: you know, think about the word close. I'm close to 560 00:32:08,530 --> 00:32:12,930 Speaker 1: the store to close the deal before the store closes. 561 00:32:13,910 --> 00:32:15,890 Speaker 1: And he was like, how do you people walk around 562 00:32:15,950 --> 00:32:16,590 Speaker 1: talking that way? 563 00:32:16,670 --> 00:32:17,710 Speaker 2: Oh, that's a great example. 564 00:32:17,730 --> 00:32:20,650 Speaker 5: But like I said, Ben, that happens in other languages, too. 565 00:32:20,890 --> 00:32:23,590 Speaker 5: So I think he might have been barking up the 566 00:32:23,630 --> 00:32:24,850 Speaker 5: wrong acorn a little bit there. 567 00:32:25,230 --> 00:32:26,250 Speaker 1: Barking up the wrong acorn. 568 00:32:26,370 --> 00:32:28,930 Speaker 5: Yeah, I didn't make that up. That's a Matt Berry-ism, 569 00:32:29,930 --> 00:32:33,420 Speaker 5: who is, I would argue, a master of the English language. 570 00:32:33,860 --> 00:32:39,100 Speaker 5: But silent letters also have the ability to evoke etymological connections. 571 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:44,580 Speaker 5: Like vineyard connects back to the vine. Sorry, vineyard is 572 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:49,020 Speaker 5: how it would be pronounced, but it's spelled V-I-N-E-Y-A-R-D. You 573 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 5: would think you would maybe pronounce it vineyard, but it's vineyard. 574 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:58,110 Speaker 5: As opposed to spelling it V-I-N-Y-A-R-D because it connects it 575 00:32:58,150 --> 00:32:59,230 Speaker 5: back to the vine. 576 00:32:59,750 --> 00:33:04,270 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a nice little reminder. And, folks, we are 577 00:33:04,820 --> 00:33:09,390 Speaker 1: such fans of odd things. of odd nooks and crannies 578 00:33:09,450 --> 00:33:12,330 Speaker 1: of linguistics, and we wish we could keep continuing. So 579 00:33:12,350 --> 00:33:14,430 Speaker 1: we may have more episodes like this in the future, 580 00:33:14,970 --> 00:33:18,470 Speaker 1: but we want to end on obviously a positive note. 581 00:33:18,570 --> 00:33:22,709 Speaker 1: We are not picking on English. It's just the one 582 00:33:22,810 --> 00:33:27,730 Speaker 1: we happen to be currently learning. Tons of other languages, 583 00:33:27,830 --> 00:33:31,430 Speaker 1: like you said, don't have silent letters, you know, Hebrew 584 00:33:31,450 --> 00:33:36,370 Speaker 1: has a very interesting relationship with vowels. Spanish, Italian, Arabic, French, 585 00:33:36,450 --> 00:33:40,969 Speaker 1: they all have silent letters, as do Indic languages. Finnish 586 00:33:41,350 --> 00:33:44,630 Speaker 1: is kind of an outlier because it's mainly phonetic, and 587 00:33:44,650 --> 00:33:48,390 Speaker 1: you pronounce each letter according to, quote, its value. 588 00:33:48,710 --> 00:33:49,910 Speaker 2: Those practical Finns. 589 00:33:50,750 --> 00:33:54,570 Speaker 1: Dude, I remember I was talking with a Finnish friend, 590 00:33:54,890 --> 00:33:58,350 Speaker 1: and I was trying to impress her by learning some 591 00:33:58,430 --> 00:34:01,580 Speaker 1: Finnish phrases. And she looked at me dead in the 592 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:06,260 Speaker 1: face and just said, don't bother. Stop, man. Don't bother. 593 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:11,340 Speaker 2: Learn. Just speak English. Speak English, bro. Yeah. Leave it 594 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,010 Speaker 2: at that. This is a good one. Yeah. Huge thanks 595 00:34:14,050 --> 00:34:15,029 Speaker 2: to Ames for this one. 596 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,570 Speaker 5: And we're so stoked to have a handful of amazing 597 00:34:18,590 --> 00:34:20,430 Speaker 5: new research associates helping us out. 598 00:34:20,690 --> 00:34:23,330 Speaker 2: On Ridiculous History. So, yeah, I do think we might 599 00:34:23,450 --> 00:34:27,930 Speaker 2: ask for some more of these linguistically based episodes. 600 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,690 Speaker 1: Absolutely. And big, big thanks as well to our super producer, Mr. 601 00:34:32,750 --> 00:34:37,450 Speaker 1: Max Williams. Big thanks to Jonathan Strickland, a.k.a. The Quister. 602 00:34:37,510 --> 00:34:40,029 Speaker 1: I know I drag him pretty often. And Jonathan, I 603 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,240 Speaker 1: know you only tune in to hear your name mentioned 604 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:46,460 Speaker 1: in the credits, but credit where it is due. Jonathan 605 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:50,340 Speaker 1: is no slouch in the language nerddom himself. He's a 606 00:34:50,390 --> 00:34:51,180 Speaker 1: pretty good orator. 607 00:34:51,370 --> 00:34:53,910 Speaker 2: No, if anything, that's like one of his evil superpowers. 608 00:34:55,100 --> 00:34:55,940 Speaker 4: Yes, yes. 609 00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,500 Speaker 1: Big thanks to A.J. Bahamas Jacobs, a.k.a. The Puzzler, The 610 00:34:59,580 --> 00:35:02,180 Speaker 1: Rude Dudes at Ridiculous Crime, and who else, who else? 611 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 5: Oh, well, of course, Christopher Asiotis and Yves Jeffcoats here 612 00:35:04,660 --> 00:35:08,890 Speaker 5: in spirit, Alex Williams, who composed this theme, and super 613 00:35:08,910 --> 00:35:11,850 Speaker 5: producer Max the Silent X Williams. 614 00:35:12,650 --> 00:35:14,950 Speaker 1: And big thanks to you, Noel. 615 00:35:15,150 --> 00:35:16,810 Speaker 2: And to you as well, sir. 616 00:35:17,230 --> 00:35:18,050 Speaker 1: I'm getting Noel. 617 00:35:18,070 --> 00:35:19,940 Speaker 2: I know, it's cool. That would aggravate me if I 618 00:35:19,940 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 2: were you. No, it's fine. I'll answer to whatever you 619 00:35:22,500 --> 00:35:31,469 Speaker 2: call me. We'll see you next time, folks. For more 620 00:35:31,489 --> 00:35:34,900 Speaker 2: podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 621 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,020 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.