Speaker 1: Welcome to Reparations, The Big Payback, a production of Color
Speaker 1: Farm Media, I Heart Radio and The Black Effect Podcast Network. Reparations.
Speaker 1: What is it? It is the making of amends for
Speaker 1: a wrong that one has done by paying money to
Speaker 1: or otherwise helping those who have been wronged. It comes
Speaker 1: from two words repair and action. So thus it is
Speaker 1: the action of repairing the damage that one has caused.
Speaker 1: It is a now and we need it now. You
Speaker 1: tell him, Rizza, you got debt? White America? Protect your neck?
Speaker 1: Who turned America? Alexander and I'm Whitney down. Mhm. There
Speaker 1: it is. It all comes down to one thing, debt.
Speaker 1: If we rang up all the debt white Americans ow
Speaker 1: the black amer Perkins, it would be fifty times longer
Speaker 1: than the CVS received picture that Whitney. That's mighty long.
Speaker 1: Did you know that you're hundreds of years ahead of
Speaker 1: me because you were born a white man in America?
Speaker 1: But you owe me a debt that is simple? Thank
Speaker 1: you can't fix well, you know, Erica, I always thank you.
Speaker 1: But what is this debt that we're talking about? Is
Speaker 1: it something that I owe you personally or is this
Speaker 1: something that all white people of black people you know,
Speaker 1: you're the big star. I'm just a documentary filmmaker. I
Speaker 1: never enslaved anybody by relatives, as far as I know, didn't.
Speaker 1: What is this thing that I actually Oh, how has
Speaker 1: this debt been accrued? And how do you think I
Speaker 1: should be repaying it one dollar at a time? You
Speaker 1: know we've done this before. It's so funny how white
Speaker 1: amnesia sits in, like how do I pay for the debts?
Speaker 1: How do I pay for stuff that I've done wrong
Speaker 1: or you know, in the past. But you know, listen,
Speaker 1: this is what the whole podcast is about. It's about
Speaker 1: the fact that if you can't see it and you
Speaker 1: don't think you owe it, and there's no invoice, then
Speaker 1: how is it your debt? And there's the rub, So yeah,
Speaker 1: you gotta get to it. The other part of this
Speaker 1: is that you got interests, okay, because this debt keeps
Speaker 1: growing whether you think it's there or not. It's like
Speaker 1: a mountain. So yeah, something's got to happen. This is
Speaker 1: the big question that I think all white people ask themselves.
Speaker 1: Whether you're someone who believes that black people are owed
Speaker 1: something or whether you believe that black people aren't owed something,
Speaker 1: you're always like asking yourself, how do I fit into this?
Speaker 1: Do I owe something personally? Is that the government? And
Speaker 1: what does it actually mean to owe something? What is
Speaker 1: the thing that I've gotten by being white that I
Speaker 1: need to repay? Well, I don't think it's what you've gotten,
Speaker 1: only it's what you can't see. And it is invisible
Speaker 1: because it's built inside the structures and institutions and the
Speaker 1: banking and the real estate and the military and everything
Speaker 1: that makes America America. But listen, I got the receipts
Speaker 1: and it dates back to how you and I both
Speaker 1: got started in life. And this will show the effects
Speaker 1: of the at pretty clearly. In fact, to demonstrate the
Speaker 1: invisible advantages of your so called magnificent whiteness and the
Speaker 1: unseen disparity of my glorious blackness, some genius created a
Speaker 1: contest called the Privilege Game. We're gonna play it outdoors
Speaker 1: because we need plenty of role Actually, I know the
Speaker 1: perfect place to play this. Okay, good, so, Erica. You
Speaker 1: know we're gonna do this privileged walk, right. I thought'd
Speaker 1: be interesting to do it at General Grant's tune. Wow,
Speaker 1: obviously he was, you know, you know, the winning general
Speaker 1: in the Civil War. But it was interesting. As president,
Speaker 1: he really went against Johnson, who replaced Lincoln, and he
Speaker 1: was really instrumental on ensuring rights for black people after
Speaker 1: Civil War. I love the story of Grant. You love
Speaker 1: the story of Grant. I do, At least what I
Speaker 1: know about him is that he was a little, small
Speaker 1: dude who was necessarily the most obvious choice. But for Lincoln,
Speaker 1: who kept sending generals in and these types of commanders,
Speaker 1: they wouldn't fight. It's like they were hesitating fighting against
Speaker 1: the South. And he says, God, damn it, I need
Speaker 1: somebody who will fight. And Grants came in, all small
Speaker 1: and kind of spiny, and he said, I'll fight, sir,
Speaker 1: and he fought. Yeah. I love you, Grant, But let's
Speaker 1: get to this game. So the purpose is to demonstrate
Speaker 1: the different ways privilege shows up in our lives. So
Speaker 1: I've asked our friend, the brilliant Joy read of the
Speaker 1: read out to set us up and get us going.
Speaker 1: She's going to read a statement or a question, and
Speaker 1: we're going to step forward or step back if it
Speaker 1: applies to us. All right, all right, you want to
Speaker 1: take twenty steps up just being white and a man?
Speaker 1: Go go for it. We worked this out like a game.
Speaker 1: It'll be fun at least for a little while. May
Speaker 1: be fun for you. I have a feeling I might
Speaker 1: lose this one by winning you you might lose this winning.
Speaker 1: Is that a joke? Say? My winning is going to
Speaker 1: be could potentially be a lost child? Please please delusions. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's get going, all right, Eric and Whitney, let's play
Speaker 1: the privilege game. You're ready, yes, ready as I'm ever
Speaker 1: going to be. Good luck to both of you. Actually,
Speaker 1: I take that back, Whitney, you don't need luck, You've
Speaker 1: got white privilege. Good luck to you. Erica. I know
Speaker 1: your story. It's amazing, so many wonderful accomplishments. But even
Speaker 1: with all of that, I already know how this game
Speaker 1: will end, and it ate with you in the lead,
Speaker 1: my Nubian sister. Okay, well, Conda forever, let's do this
Speaker 1: first question, If your ancestors were forced to come to
Speaker 1: the USA, not by choice, take one step back by
Speaker 1: let me just step back. If your primary ethnic identity
Speaker 1: is American, take one step forward. If you were ever
Speaker 1: called names because of your race, class, ethnicity, gender, or
Speaker 1: sexual orientation, take one step back there, Erica, she's getting
Speaker 1: a little bit back behind me. Whitney, you keep moving forward.
Speaker 1: I've been moved forward once. Sucks for me. If there
Speaker 1: were people who worked for your family as servants, gardeners, nanny's,
Speaker 1: et cetera, take one step forward. Here I go again.
Speaker 1: If you were ever ashaved or embarrassed of your clothes,
Speaker 1: house car, et cetera, take one step back. We can
Speaker 1: further part pretty quickly. Whitney, you might want to get
Speaker 1: out the middle of the center of the sidewalk. There
Speaker 1: you go. All right, Whitney, so far you're in the
Speaker 1: lead by a pretty wide margin. So Erica, now it
Speaker 1: was probably a good time for us to set up
Speaker 1: some prayers that you'll catch up to him in the
Speaker 1: next round of the game. But first, speaking of reparations,
Speaker 1: I know YouTube visited New York's famous Riverside Church, whose
Speaker 1: history is connected to reparations. Let's take a listen. Wow,
Speaker 1: what a church. Yeah, this is a beauty. You know what,
Speaker 1: I love stained glass. It looks like um candy. It's delicious.
Speaker 1: It's really really really astounding. Because they can build this,
Speaker 1: we can get reparations. It's true, this was no small undertaking.
Speaker 1: So you know this is the church where James Foreman
Speaker 1: in nine and it was eight fourth. He got up.
Speaker 1: There was a Sunday service, right, and he got up.
Speaker 1: You know, Reverend Ernest T. Campbell was presiding, big crowd,
Speaker 1: mostly white, white, yeah, mostly white, and he got up
Speaker 1: and he presented the Black Manifesto. That's right, you know, Whitney.
Speaker 1: James Foreman was a well known civil rights activist at
Speaker 1: the time. But when he stormed the pulpit and disrupted
Speaker 1: that service, he was heckled. I mean, they probably thought
Speaker 1: he was there to rob him membership of Minside Church
Speaker 1: Black Manifesto. We the black people assembled in Detroit, Michigan
Speaker 1: for the National Black Economic Development Conference, are fully aware
Speaker 1: that we have been forced to come together because racist
Speaker 1: white America has exploited our resources, our minds, our bodies,
Speaker 1: our labor for centuries. We have been forced to live
Speaker 1: as colonized people inside the United States, victimized by the
Speaker 1: most vicious racist system in the world. We have helped
Speaker 1: to build the most industrial country in the world. The
Speaker 1: Riverside Church is to use its influence and historic reputation
Speaker 1: to pressure all white, racist Christian churches and Jewish synagogues
Speaker 1: to meet the demand of the National Black Economic Development
Speaker 1: Conference for five hundred million dollars in reparations due to
Speaker 1: the role of the Christian and Jewish religions and exploiting
Speaker 1: Black people in this country. We have stated in our
Speaker 1: Black Manifesto that our demand for five hundred million dollars
Speaker 1: cannot be minimized. It can only be increase. While we
Speaker 1: did not place a time limit on when we wanted
Speaker 1: to five hundred million dollars in reparations to be paid,
Speaker 1: let no Christian or Jew think that we are going
Speaker 1: to string out this matter or that payment of this
Speaker 1: reparation can be evaded. We are therefore demanding of the
Speaker 1: white Christian churches in Jewish synagogues, which are part and
Speaker 1: parcel of the system of capitalism, that they begin to
Speaker 1: pay reparations to black people in this country. They're demanding
Speaker 1: five hundred million dollars. This total comes to fifteen dollars
Speaker 1: per nigger. Why didn't you read that part? That's not
Speaker 1: the that Wait a minute, I gotta keep reading this
Speaker 1: nigger thing. This total comes to fifteen dollars per nigger.
Speaker 1: This is a low estimate. We maintain there are probably
Speaker 1: more than thirty million black people in this country. Fifteen
Speaker 1: dollars a nigger is not a large sum of money.
Speaker 1: And we know that the churches and synagogues have a
Speaker 1: tremendous wealth in his membership White America and still exploits
Speaker 1: Black people. Time is running out. We have been slaves
Speaker 1: too long. The church has profited from our labor. The
Speaker 1: church is racist. We are men and women, proud Black
Speaker 1: men and women. Our demands shall be met, reparations or
Speaker 1: no church victory or death. Thank you. Now, there's a
Speaker 1: reason why he's using the word nigger. This was him
Speaker 1: manifesting this to me, channeling his anger. He was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: you don't want to know what that is. That's fifteen
Speaker 1: dollars nigger. Now that in a way it sounds like
Speaker 1: it's cheap. That's some heavy stuff. Oh those Oh I
Speaker 1: wish I could have seen those white people's faces. Oh
Speaker 1: they're ambrosis salad. That morning it got willed. Why I
Speaker 1: never I never using nigger House of God. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: they baptized us and put us on slave ships. To me,
Speaker 1: nigger was invented in the House of God by godless people.
Speaker 1: So maybe if we flip it and we stormed the capital,
Speaker 1: we can get fifteen dollars a nigger, and that's what
Speaker 1: he was asking for. He said, give us some money
Speaker 1: so we can do for ourselves. And he didn't get it,
Speaker 1: and we're still asking for But I don't believe that
Speaker 1: America can last, or be strong or go forward if
Speaker 1: it does not correct this huge crack in its foundation.
Speaker 1: I think of the courage to talk, to come into
Speaker 1: this place and stand up in sort of the seat
Speaker 1: of religious power. This was I don't think it took
Speaker 1: as much courage as you think. People were furious. I
Speaker 1: think that he was furious, so to me, I think
Speaker 1: he channeled his anger into something that he thought was
Speaker 1: at least productive and said, I'm gonna put a number
Speaker 1: to this. We're gonna get some money for us. They
Speaker 1: owe us, And he was trying to compel them out
Speaker 1: of a sense of morality, to beat them with the
Speaker 1: stick of justice. He was right. He started national conversation
Speaker 1: on on reparations around religion that had never been started before,
Speaker 1: and there was a huge, huge, This was front page
Speaker 1: news and it really I mean, he did something. It
Speaker 1: was like a thunderclap, letting people know that this discussion
Speaker 1: about the church and exploitation of Black Americans was joined money.
Speaker 1: That's the number one reason America it doesn't have a
Speaker 1: reparations program for the living ancestors of enslaved African Americans
Speaker 1: because it'll cost her money. Moo lah. That's where the
Speaker 1: rubber meets the road. America is in debt to Black people,
Speaker 1: monetarily and spiritually. You take it from early activists like
Speaker 1: Queen Mother Moore and your favorite Whitney Cally House, who
Speaker 1: are pioneers in the reparations movement. You know, I love Kelly,
Speaker 1: but really loved James Foreman. I mean, I think that
Speaker 1: what he did and what I think is like so
Speaker 1: fascinating about the manifesto is that it wasn't just so
Speaker 1: specific and like clear, but also the way that Revere
Speaker 1: Kimbell responded to it. I think that what he said
Speaker 1: something and I'm paraphrasing him here I can't really remember,
Speaker 1: it is something about he said you might not like
Speaker 1: what he said, you might not like the way he
Speaker 1: said it, but the questions he's posed are properly before
Speaker 1: the house. And so it really comes down to money.
Speaker 1: As you say, it's like what is owed, but also
Speaker 1: who's going to pay it? That's true but we can't
Speaker 1: oversimplify this because there are other necessary factors involved, like
Speaker 1: an apology for slavery, psychological damage, healing, reconciliation, untangling, lots
Speaker 1: of heinous legislation that's cooked into the books. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: a big money payment is still be peanuts. I mean,
Speaker 1: in theory, it should be equal to the amount of
Speaker 1: money enslaved Africans have earned in labor unpaid funding. We
Speaker 1: blacks invested in you, White America. The debt has come
Speaker 1: due with me and the bill is staggering. How much
Speaker 1: you got in your pockets player, You know, Erica may
Speaker 1: not not very much. And I think that's kind of
Speaker 1: how a lot of what Americans feel like they don't
Speaker 1: have necessarily have a lot of money, and what they
Speaker 1: do they worked really hard for, and they don't see
Speaker 1: the advantages that, you know, they might not have money
Speaker 1: in their pocket, but they have something else. They have
Speaker 1: opportunities and advantages that really can't be calculated. And I
Speaker 1: think that's kind of the question we're exploring here. You know,
Speaker 1: what is the number that can make up not only
Speaker 1: for what was taken with black Americans, but all so
Speaker 1: for what was not given right. So James Foreman, this disruptor.
Speaker 1: He visited Reverend Campbell the night before his Sunday stunt
Speaker 1: to ask him for permission to address the service. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's trying to do it the right way. But Campbell declined.
Speaker 1: So Foreman did his thing, and you and you heard
Speaker 1: the congregation booing. Why I was there to see it,
Speaker 1: but you know he was undaunted. Campbell came back strong though.
Speaker 1: After a regroup that same Sunday, he spoke about Foreman's manifesto.
Speaker 1: He spoke about the evils of the white man and
Speaker 1: the black man's mistreatment from the white men. But he
Speaker 1: also says that whites have inherited this system. Now, this
Speaker 1: is where it starts to get a little dodgy, and
Speaker 1: he posits that there's a statue of limitations. You gotta
Speaker 1: get that lone limitation on the pain and suffering of
Speaker 1: black people, But there is a limit on the time
Speaker 1: that white people have to rectify, recognize, and repair the
Speaker 1: destruction of black citizens, their most valuable asset creators. You know,
Speaker 1: he acknowledges the validity of the question. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: he's ready for the answer that a full accounting is
Speaker 1: going to provide. I mean, That's really the question, right, Erica,
Speaker 1: what is the number? How do you quantify what is owed? Well,
Speaker 1: if we're talking about the debt that we got to
Speaker 1: talk to uber economist Dr William Derty and he's got numbers.
Speaker 1: I mean Whitney, you know, he wasn't always for reparations.
Speaker 1: He was a skeptic. I see reparations as something that
Speaker 1: is supposed to be rejuvenative of a community that has
Speaker 1: been long, long decimated by American racism. But I don't
Speaker 1: necessarily see that as being a process that would inflict
Speaker 1: any type of unique harm on the non black population
Speaker 1: of the United Say, that's a huge relief for me
Speaker 1: to hear. I guess. I don't see reparations as a
Speaker 1: matter of individual or personal guilt. I see it as
Speaker 1: a matter of national responsibility and obligation. And I can't
Speaker 1: say what the consequences would be for the country as
Speaker 1: a whole if it never happens. It hasn't happened in
Speaker 1: a hundred fifty six years. But I certainly can have
Speaker 1: the expectation that black lives will continue to be stunted
Speaker 1: and denied full opportunity if a step like this is
Speaker 1: not taken. Take US through a little bit like what
Speaker 1: you believe the debt is and how you're calculating it.
Speaker 1: The Black American population that is descended from persons enslaved
Speaker 1: in the US is about thirteen percent of the nation's population,
Speaker 1: but possesses about two and a half percent of the
Speaker 1: nation's wealth. This corresponds to a situation in which the
Speaker 1: average black household has a net worth that is now
Speaker 1: almost eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars less than the
Speaker 1: average white household. We view that racial wealth differential as
Speaker 1: capturing the cumulative intergenerational effects of racism in American society.
Speaker 1: We set as the target for a reparations plan elimination
Speaker 1: of that gap and bringing the black share of wealth
Speaker 1: into consistency with the black share of the nation's population.
Speaker 1: And that would require at least ten to twelve trillion
Speaker 1: dollars and resources to be transferred to Black Americans. And
Speaker 1: how are you calculating that number? So we estimate, based
Speaker 1: upon the Federal Reserve Survey of Consumer Finances, that the
Speaker 1: total required per household would be about eight hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars. There are approximately fifteen million households that
Speaker 1: can syst of persons who are descendants of the folks
Speaker 1: who were enslaved in the United States, and so simply
Speaker 1: by multiplying the fifteen million by approximately eight fifty thousand,
Speaker 1: you come up with that number. Hi, it's Joy read again,
Speaker 1: and we're back with the next round of the privileged game.
Speaker 1: They're so pretty far apart, but let's get into the
Speaker 1: next round of questions to see if Erica can catch
Speaker 1: up to Whitney. Eric and Whitney, can both of you
Speaker 1: still hear me? I can hear you better than I
Speaker 1: can hear Erica. I knew you guys would be far apartful. Wow,
Speaker 1: you can't even talk to each other now. Yeah, whatever,
Speaker 1: here's the next question. If one or both of your
Speaker 1: parents were white collar professionals, doctors, lawyers, etcetera. Take one
Speaker 1: step forward. Here I go, Whitney reving. If you were
Speaker 1: raised in an area where there was prostitution, drug activity, etcetera,
Speaker 1: take one step back. I'm good. We're both standing in place.
Speaker 1: If you ever tried to change your appearance, mannerisms, or
Speaker 1: behavior to avoid being judged or ridiculed, take one step back.
Speaker 1: But we probably all did, right. No, No, you're still
Speaker 1: standing damn if you study the culture of your ancestors
Speaker 1: in elementary school, take one step forward. That's definitely me.
Speaker 1: It looks like a dot here. If you went to
Speaker 1: school speaking a language other than English, take one step back.
Speaker 1: Look at them. Every step he just keeps moving and moving.
Speaker 1: Oh man, wow, we think you're a mile away. This
Speaker 1: is an absolute blood letting Erica, girl, I can see
Speaker 1: how this is gonna end. But I'm looking at the
Speaker 1: time and I gotta go. I need to get ready
Speaker 1: for my TV show, The read Out. Catch you two later.
Speaker 1: We'll see you. Joy, thanks, Joy to the world. White
Speaker 1: privilege not just white privilege. This is about privilege. It's
Speaker 1: not just d n A. It's also the luck. You know.
Speaker 1: I feel lucky, even though I'm way back here. Shoot,
Speaker 1: don't tell me I'm not lucky. Okay, So, Erica, I
Speaker 1: can see you. Can you hear me? Erica? Are we
Speaker 1: far away from each other? Yeah? You're We started off
Speaker 1: in the middle of the block. You're almost at the end.
Speaker 1: I'm still in the middle, but further from the middle.
Speaker 1: I hope you appreciate this privilege. He appreciates it, you
Speaker 1: know what, though, I'm sorry to realize, man, I did
Speaker 1: pretty good not knowing that I didn't have all these advantages.
Speaker 1: If you've ever been cast on a major network sitcom
Speaker 1: and been the star of stage and screen, take five
Speaker 1: hundred steps forward. Wait, Eric is coming, she's coming fast.
Speaker 1: She's blowing by me and she uh, she's out of
Speaker 1: sight something what five sixty Wow, that's what network TV
Speaker 1: does for you. I blew right past you, Whitney, So long, Whitey.
Speaker 1: What did we learn here that being white and mail
Speaker 1: is a good thing and being a star of stage
Speaker 1: screen is a great thing. Yeah, but it didn't make
Speaker 1: up for all that other stuff. Okay, I'm coming up now.
Speaker 1: We're talking about you being an actor and famous, but
Speaker 1: that's everything else on this question is just everyday things,
Speaker 1: and that's what separates it. Not everybody gets to be
Speaker 1: cast and TV shows and movies. So it was like
Speaker 1: winning the lottery that changed my life. And that's absurd
Speaker 1: that you have to win the lottery in order to
Speaker 1: get some sort of balancing factor. And it's what you
Speaker 1: know I said to you earlier at one point, is
Speaker 1: that I don't want to give up what I have.
Speaker 1: I want everybody to have what I have. But what
Speaker 1: I don't believe that you can have everything you have
Speaker 1: without black people having to give up everything. So you
Speaker 1: must give up something. So that's what we're sort of exploring.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of times people say, oh, it's
Speaker 1: it's not a zero sum game. I do agree that
Speaker 1: it is a zero sum game, that that there is
Speaker 1: gonna you have to give up to get something. So
Speaker 1: but that was that was interesting, That was fun. That
Speaker 1: was fun for you because you kept moving forward. What
Speaker 1: are you talking about, Oh, that was fun. Oh you
Speaker 1: know what it's like when you go to amusement park
Speaker 1: and you're wondering because you've been standing in line all
Speaker 1: day and there's a family and they just move forward
Speaker 1: and you go, man, they must got the hookup. That's
Speaker 1: what it's like for black people looking at white people,
Speaker 1: that you're always thinking they've got the hook up. It's
Speaker 1: it's not even a joke with us. We know we
Speaker 1: look at white people and they automatically they got the
Speaker 1: hook up privileges, the hook up privileges, the hook up
Speaker 1: see you later unless these grant thanks a lot. Yeah. So, Whitney,
Speaker 1: the privileged game did like we knew it would. But
Speaker 1: a powerful way to change the results of the game
Speaker 1: is through reparations. Now. I know it's no magic bullet,
Speaker 1: I got it, but it beats the slow death if
Speaker 1: a thousand cuts African Americans are experiencing. Now, we need
Speaker 1: to talk to some folks who can help us do
Speaker 1: the math and calculate what's old so we can get
Speaker 1: going on this. I mean, please, I don't want to
Speaker 1: keep playing that game again and just keep losing. My
Speaker 1: name is Bob Johnson. I'm the founder of Black Entertainment
Speaker 1: Television and the r l J Companies. Bobby j Okay
Speaker 1: right now. He has been on record for demanding the U.
Speaker 1: S Government paid fourteen trillion dollars to the descendants of slaves,
Speaker 1: and he makes a hell of a case it. He
Speaker 1: also believes that Black Americans are giving away their wealth
Speaker 1: because they're left out of the many incentives of home ownership,
Speaker 1: the biggest transfer. Well, if you think about this home ownership.
Speaker 1: When you own a home, two things happen. One, the
Speaker 1: government gives you a tax deduction for the interests you
Speaker 1: pay on the homeowner mortgage, So one, the government is
Speaker 1: subsidizing your home. The second thing is home ownership has
Speaker 1: been the backbone of well creation in this society, and
Speaker 1: so the home appreciates, and when you sell it, you
Speaker 1: have more money than when you're invested in it. So
Speaker 1: white Americans on about seventy the ratio of homeownership and
Speaker 1: white Americans about se Black Americans about So white Americans
Speaker 1: own more homes then Black Americans and therefore get the
Speaker 1: benefit of the tax deduction and the appreciation. Now Black
Speaker 1: Americans are subsidizing that because if they don't have the
Speaker 1: down payment for the home, they have to rent. When
Speaker 1: you rent, as anybody who knows who rents an apartment
Speaker 1: or rent any kind of property, no you don't get
Speaker 1: a tax deduction for rent an apartment in the urban
Speaker 1: markets or any place. So you are in effect playing
Speaker 1: the same tax. So if you make forty dollars, your
Speaker 1: taxes on your forty dollars of income, but you don't
Speaker 1: get that tax deduction which reduces your tax. The white
Speaker 1: American who has access to capital can get that tax deduction.
Speaker 1: That's a wealth transfer. So many black families who rent
Speaker 1: are subsidizing white ownership because they are not getting the
Speaker 1: tax deduction. They're paying full tax, while the Latin American
Speaker 1: can deduct the tax on their home ownership. Because that's
Speaker 1: the federal government rule. And so that's a wealth transfer.
Speaker 1: Labor is a wealth transfer. Access to paying taxes greater
Speaker 1: than the other person is a wealth transfer. And so
Speaker 1: where does that money come from? To transfer that money back,
Speaker 1: you're saying just to take it out of the budget.
Speaker 1: Should there be a reparation's tax? What is the way
Speaker 1: you create that revenue? Same way the government always creates wevenue.
Speaker 1: You get the revenue from the the individual taxpayers in
Speaker 1: this country. Keep in mind, there's no such thing as
Speaker 1: government money. Now, government can print money and create more money,
Speaker 1: but fundamentally, the way the government pays for itself for
Speaker 1: military expenses, health care expenses, social services is by taxing people.
Speaker 1: So it's utterly the money belongs to the people. So
Speaker 1: reparations is a way of saying to the people of
Speaker 1: this country three million plus people, forty million black. It's saying, look,
Speaker 1: we need to repair our nation by giving everybody an
Speaker 1: equal opportunity and paying damages for people who were treated
Speaker 1: horribly for more than two hundred plus years. Economist Dr
Speaker 1: Julian malvo I love her me the case for reparations
Speaker 1: in two thousand nineteen, which he testified at the HR
Speaker 1: forty hearing, which calls for the establishment of a commission
Speaker 1: to study reparations for Black Americans. People are very uncomfortable
Speaker 1: talking about what they owe us. It's very uncomfortable to
Speaker 1: talk about the fact that the foundations of our nation's
Speaker 1: economy rests on the backs of black people. We would
Speaker 1: not have a wall street, a bond market absent black labor,
Speaker 1: absent extracting the value of the work of enslaved black people.
Speaker 1: But when you begin to talk about it from an
Speaker 1: economic perspective, people get really very uncomfortable because then you
Speaker 1: also have to talk about the nature of capitalism. You
Speaker 1: have to talk about something called predatory capitalism. Predatory capitalism
Speaker 1: gives you the ability to think of five people, basically
Speaker 1: dehumanize people. Dr King called a thing of five. You know,
Speaker 1: when we talk about reparations, We've got a piece of legislation,
Speaker 1: a powerful piece of legislations HR forty, which would essentially
Speaker 1: set up a commission to look at what form reparation
Speaker 1: might take. I believe that there's a combination remedy that
Speaker 1: includes the repair of our communities. We had a hundred
Speaker 1: plus black owned banks in the early twentieth century. Now
Speaker 1: we have twenty three, Well, what did we lose? And
Speaker 1: we lost lots because essentially was a time period where
Speaker 1: black people were making advances even though we didn't get
Speaker 1: the forty acres in the mule, and then whitefolds bucked
Speaker 1: up and said, wait a minute, these people moving too far,
Speaker 1: too fast. We need to stop this stuff. And that's
Speaker 1: where you got the lynchings, the gym crow laws. Give
Speaker 1: us a tab. What's the bill. We can calculate the
Speaker 1: value of enslaved work from sixteen nineteen, eighteen sixty five,
Speaker 1: but we can also calculate the value of extorted work
Speaker 1: from eighteen sixty five to nineteen sixty five. We can
Speaker 1: also talk about the value what has happened with economic
Speaker 1: discrimination and the value of that from nineteen sixty five
Speaker 1: until a present. We could look at the Emergency Land Fund,
Speaker 1: which is an organization that looked at the loss of
Speaker 1: black land and how we had land and they took
Speaker 1: it away from us. We could talk about the black
Speaker 1: people who were banished with the sundown towns. One day
Speaker 1: you wake up, they say, y'all got to get out
Speaker 1: of town right now. So there's so many pieces that
Speaker 1: you can calculate, and this this is the reckoning that
Speaker 1: our country has to have. You have a wealth gap
Speaker 1: where you have one black dollar for it right now
Speaker 1: for every thirteen white dollars today. In nineteen ten, it
Speaker 1: was one black dollar for every sixteen. So think about that.
Speaker 1: And of course, of more than a hundred years we've
Speaker 1: had that little progress. Now the number does go up
Speaker 1: and down, but one sixteen, one thirteen, and it really
Speaker 1: does speak to why reparations are important, and who gets
Speaker 1: these reparations and how are they divvied up. I feel
Speaker 1: more strongly about community repair than the individual repair, but
Speaker 1: many feel there should be some check cuts, some kind
Speaker 1: of way. Okay, I'm not going to strongly object to that.
Speaker 1: If we leave that it's not just enslavement, but also
Speaker 1: the post enslavement period, the g I Bill, the Homestead Act,
Speaker 1: all that exclusion. If you believe that, then whether you
Speaker 1: got here in sixteen nineteen or in or even in
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine, you've experienced some form of damage because
Speaker 1: of this oppressive system. How do we slice the pie.
Speaker 1: Let's get a pie first, and then let's talk about
Speaker 1: it right on Julianne. And if there's gonna be pie,
Speaker 1: I'll take a huge piece of Pecan oh in Whitney
Speaker 1: on Capitol Hill. Wait, I use my upper crust voice.
Speaker 1: We had movement on HR forty when football legend Herschel
Speaker 1: Walker lent his um expertise in soaring rhetoric to the
Speaker 1: reparations testimony going on in Congress. Let's listen in we
Speaker 1: use black power to create white guilt. My approach is biblical.
Speaker 1: How can I ask my heaven as farm to forgive
Speaker 1: me if I can't forgive my brother. I never want
Speaker 1: to put anyone religion down, but my religion teach togetherness, reparation,
Speaker 1: teach separation. Men have died trying to get into America.
Speaker 1: No one is dying trying to get out reparation. Wherever
Speaker 1: the money comes from, Who is black? What percentage of
Speaker 1: black must you be to receive reparation? If reparation is
Speaker 1: a fee or a correction for a terrible sin of
Speaker 1: slave owners, government and others. But we punished the non
Speaker 1: guilty party. Is it not creating division or separation with
Speaker 1: different races? Reparation I feel it continues to let us
Speaker 1: know we're still African American rather than just America. No,
Speaker 1: not exactly a touchdown, but in all fairness, just because
Speaker 1: Herschel's on the field doesn't mean he's on your team.
Speaker 1: So I don't think one should throw him the reparations
Speaker 1: football and not expect a fumble. Child. Please good luck giljecone.
Speaker 1: Next time on Reparations the Big Payback, we meet the
Speaker 1: trailblazers of the reparations movement. Calli House was a black
Speaker 1: woman who had been a slave, and the federal government
Speaker 1: got concerned. They decided because letters were coming from white
Speaker 1: people saying, the Negroes are meeting in churches and they
Speaker 1: come out saying and talking about someday we're gonna get something.
Speaker 1: So you need to do something about that woman who's
Speaker 1: going around there stirn them up. And so they decided
Speaker 1: to go after her. And they said that she was
Speaker 1: using the mails to defraud because she was telling black
Speaker 1: people that she was going to negroes that she was
Speaker 1: gonna try to get the federal government give them some money.
Speaker 1: And she should know the federal government is never gonna
Speaker 1: give negroes any money. That's the way they put it.
Speaker 1: So it was fraud to be organizing people. And so
Speaker 1: you can trace the present day reparations movement all the
Speaker 1: way back to Calis House and her ex lay Pension Movement.
Speaker 1: This podcast is produced by Eric Alexander, Ben ar Noon
Speaker 1: and Whitney DApp. The executive producers are Charlemagne the God
Speaker 1: and Dolly S. Bishop. The Supervising producer is Nicole Childers
Speaker 1: and the lead producers Devin Maverick Robbins, The producer writer
Speaker 1: Serice Castle, and the associate producers Kevin Famm. With additional
Speaker 1: research support provided by Nile Blast. Original music by d
Speaker 1: J D t P Reparations. The Big Payback is a
Speaker 1: production of color Farm Media, I Heart Radio and The
Speaker 1: Black Effect Podcast Network in association with best Case Studios.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the I
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Speaker 1: your favorite shows.