1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to Reparations, The Big Payback, a production of Color 2 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: Farm Media, I Heart Radio and The Black Effect Podcast Network. Reparations. 3 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 1: What is it? It is the making of amends for 4 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: a wrong that one has done by paying money to 5 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: or otherwise helping those who have been wronged. It comes 6 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:23,319 Speaker 1: from two words repair and action. So thus it is 7 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: the action of repairing the damage that one has caused. 8 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: It is a now and we need it now. You 9 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: tell him, Rizza, you got debt? White America? Protect your neck? 10 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: Who turned America? Alexander and I'm Whitney down. Mhm. There 11 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: it is. It all comes down to one thing, debt. 12 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: If we rang up all the debt white Americans ow 13 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: the black amer Perkins, it would be fifty times longer 14 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:08,479 Speaker 1: than the CVS received picture that Whitney. That's mighty long. 15 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: Did you know that you're hundreds of years ahead of 16 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,320 Speaker 1: me because you were born a white man in America? 17 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: But you owe me a debt that is simple? Thank 18 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: you can't fix well, you know, Erica, I always thank you. 19 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: But what is this debt that we're talking about? Is 20 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: it something that I owe you personally or is this 21 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 1: something that all white people of black people you know, 22 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: you're the big star. I'm just a documentary filmmaker. I 23 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: never enslaved anybody by relatives, as far as I know, didn't. 24 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: What is this thing that I actually Oh, how has 25 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: this debt been accrued? And how do you think I 26 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: should be repaying it one dollar at a time? You 27 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: know we've done this before. It's so funny how white 28 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: amnesia sits in, like how do I pay for the debts? 29 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: How do I pay for stuff that I've done wrong 30 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: or you know, in the past. But you know, listen, 31 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: this is what the whole podcast is about. It's about 32 00:01:57,840 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: the fact that if you can't see it and you 33 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: don't think you owe it, and there's no invoice, then 34 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: how is it your debt? And there's the rub, So yeah, 35 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 1: you gotta get to it. The other part of this 36 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: is that you got interests, okay, because this debt keeps 37 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: growing whether you think it's there or not. It's like 38 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 1: a mountain. So yeah, something's got to happen. This is 39 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 1: the big question that I think all white people ask themselves. 40 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 1: Whether you're someone who believes that black people are owed 41 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: something or whether you believe that black people aren't owed something, 42 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: you're always like asking yourself, how do I fit into this? 43 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: Do I owe something personally? Is that the government? And 44 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: what does it actually mean to owe something? What is 45 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: the thing that I've gotten by being white that I 46 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: need to repay? Well, I don't think it's what you've gotten, 47 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: only it's what you can't see. And it is invisible 48 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: because it's built inside the structures and institutions and the 49 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: banking and the real estate and the military and everything 50 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 1: that makes America America. But listen, I got the receipts 51 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: and it dates back to how you and I both 52 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 1: got started in life. And this will show the effects 53 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: of the at pretty clearly. In fact, to demonstrate the 54 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 1: invisible advantages of your so called magnificent whiteness and the 55 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 1: unseen disparity of my glorious blackness, some genius created a 56 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: contest called the Privilege Game. We're gonna play it outdoors 57 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: because we need plenty of role Actually, I know the 58 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: perfect place to play this. Okay, good, so, Erica. You 59 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: know we're gonna do this privileged walk, right. I thought'd 60 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:34,399 Speaker 1: be interesting to do it at General Grant's tune. Wow, 61 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: obviously he was, you know, you know, the winning general 62 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: in the Civil War. But it was interesting. As president, 63 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: he really went against Johnson, who replaced Lincoln, and he 64 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: was really instrumental on ensuring rights for black people after 65 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: Civil War. I love the story of Grant. You love 66 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: the story of Grant. I do, At least what I 67 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: know about him is that he was a little, small 68 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: dude who was necessarily the most obvious choice. But for Lincoln, 69 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: who kept sending generals in and these types of commanders, 70 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: they wouldn't fight. It's like they were hesitating fighting against 71 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: the South. And he says, God, damn it, I need 72 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 1: somebody who will fight. And Grants came in, all small 73 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: and kind of spiny, and he said, I'll fight, sir, 74 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: and he fought. Yeah. I love you, Grant, But let's 75 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: get to this game. So the purpose is to demonstrate 76 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: the different ways privilege shows up in our lives. So 77 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 1: I've asked our friend, the brilliant Joy read of the 78 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: read out to set us up and get us going. 79 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: She's going to read a statement or a question, and 80 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: we're going to step forward or step back if it 81 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: applies to us. All right, all right, you want to 82 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,280 Speaker 1: take twenty steps up just being white and a man? 83 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 1: Go go for it. We worked this out like a game. 84 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: It'll be fun at least for a little while. May 85 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 1: be fun for you. I have a feeling I might 86 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: lose this one by winning you you might lose this winning. 87 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:03,600 Speaker 1: Is that a joke? Say? My winning is going to 88 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 1: be could potentially be a lost child? Please please delusions. Okay, 89 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: let's get going, all right, Eric and Whitney, let's play 90 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: the privilege game. You're ready, yes, ready as I'm ever 91 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: going to be. Good luck to both of you. Actually, 92 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:24,599 Speaker 1: I take that back, Whitney, you don't need luck, You've 93 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: got white privilege. Good luck to you. Erica. I know 94 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 1: your story. It's amazing, so many wonderful accomplishments. But even 95 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 1: with all of that, I already know how this game 96 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 1: will end, and it ate with you in the lead, 97 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 1: my Nubian sister. Okay, well, Conda forever, let's do this 98 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: first question, If your ancestors were forced to come to 99 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: the USA, not by choice, take one step back by 100 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: let me just step back. If your primary ethnic identity 101 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: is American, take one step forward. If you were ever 102 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: called names because of your race, class, ethnicity, gender, or 103 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: sexual orientation, take one step back there, Erica, she's getting 104 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: a little bit back behind me. Whitney, you keep moving forward. 105 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: I've been moved forward once. Sucks for me. If there 106 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: were people who worked for your family as servants, gardeners, nanny's, 107 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: et cetera, take one step forward. Here I go again. 108 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: If you were ever ashaved or embarrassed of your clothes, 109 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: house car, et cetera, take one step back. We can 110 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: further part pretty quickly. Whitney, you might want to get 111 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 1: out the middle of the center of the sidewalk. There 112 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 1: you go. All right, Whitney, so far you're in the 113 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: lead by a pretty wide margin. So Erica, now it 114 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: was probably a good time for us to set up 115 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: some prayers that you'll catch up to him in the 116 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: next round of the game. But first, speaking of reparations, 117 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: I know YouTube visited New York's famous Riverside Church, whose 118 00:06:50,080 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 1: history is connected to reparations. Let's take a listen. Wow, 119 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: what a church. Yeah, this is a beauty. You know what, 120 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: I love stained glass. It looks like um candy. It's delicious. 121 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: It's really really really astounding. Because they can build this, 122 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: we can get reparations. It's true, this was no small undertaking. 123 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: So you know this is the church where James Foreman 124 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: in nine and it was eight fourth. He got up. 125 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 1: There was a Sunday service, right, and he got up. 126 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: You know, Reverend Ernest T. Campbell was presiding, big crowd, 127 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: mostly white, white, yeah, mostly white, and he got up 128 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: and he presented the Black Manifesto. That's right, you know, Whitney. 129 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: James Foreman was a well known civil rights activist at 130 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: the time. But when he stormed the pulpit and disrupted 131 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: that service, he was heckled. I mean, they probably thought 132 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: he was there to rob him membership of Minside Church 133 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: Black Manifesto. We the black people assembled in Detroit, Michigan 134 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: for the National Black Economic Development Conference, are fully aware 135 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,679 Speaker 1: that we have been forced to come together because racist 136 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 1: white America has exploited our resources, our minds, our bodies, 137 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 1: our labor for centuries. We have been forced to live 138 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: as colonized people inside the United States, victimized by the 139 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 1: most vicious racist system in the world. We have helped 140 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: to build the most industrial country in the world. The 141 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: Riverside Church is to use its influence and historic reputation 142 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:04,319 Speaker 1: to pressure all white, racist Christian churches and Jewish synagogues 143 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: to meet the demand of the National Black Economic Development 144 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: Conference for five hundred million dollars in reparations due to 145 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: the role of the Christian and Jewish religions and exploiting 146 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 1: Black people in this country. We have stated in our 147 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 1: Black Manifesto that our demand for five hundred million dollars 148 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: cannot be minimized. It can only be increase. While we 149 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 1: did not place a time limit on when we wanted 150 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: to five hundred million dollars in reparations to be paid, 151 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: let no Christian or Jew think that we are going 152 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: to string out this matter or that payment of this 153 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: reparation can be evaded. We are therefore demanding of the 154 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,599 Speaker 1: white Christian churches in Jewish synagogues, which are part and 155 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: parcel of the system of capitalism, that they begin to 156 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: pay reparations to black people in this country. They're demanding 157 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: five hundred million dollars. This total comes to fifteen dollars 158 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: per nigger. Why didn't you read that part? That's not 159 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 1: the that Wait a minute, I gotta keep reading this 160 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: nigger thing. This total comes to fifteen dollars per nigger. 161 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 1: This is a low estimate. We maintain there are probably 162 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 1: more than thirty million black people in this country. Fifteen 163 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 1: dollars a nigger is not a large sum of money. 164 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: And we know that the churches and synagogues have a 165 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: tremendous wealth in his membership White America and still exploits 166 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 1: Black people. Time is running out. We have been slaves 167 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: too long. The church has profited from our labor. The 168 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: church is racist. We are men and women, proud Black 169 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: men and women. Our demands shall be met, reparations or 170 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: no church victory or death. Thank you. Now, there's a 171 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: reason why he's using the word nigger. This was him 172 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:56,559 Speaker 1: manifesting this to me, channeling his anger. He was like, Okay, 173 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 1: you don't want to know what that is. That's fifteen 174 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 1: dollars nigger. Now that in a way it sounds like 175 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: it's cheap. That's some heavy stuff. Oh those Oh I 176 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: wish I could have seen those white people's faces. Oh 177 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:16,439 Speaker 1: they're ambrosis salad. That morning it got willed. Why I 178 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: never I never using nigger House of God. Yeah, but 179 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: they baptized us and put us on slave ships. To me, 180 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 1: nigger was invented in the House of God by godless people. 181 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: So maybe if we flip it and we stormed the capital, 182 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 1: we can get fifteen dollars a nigger, and that's what 183 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: he was asking for. He said, give us some money 184 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: so we can do for ourselves. And he didn't get it, 185 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: and we're still asking for But I don't believe that 186 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 1: America can last, or be strong or go forward if 187 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: it does not correct this huge crack in its foundation. 188 00:11:57,679 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: I think of the courage to talk, to come into 189 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:02,680 Speaker 1: this place and stand up in sort of the seat 190 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 1: of religious power. This was I don't think it took 191 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: as much courage as you think. People were furious. I 192 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: think that he was furious, so to me, I think 193 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: he channeled his anger into something that he thought was 194 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:19,319 Speaker 1: at least productive and said, I'm gonna put a number 195 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 1: to this. We're gonna get some money for us. They 196 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: owe us, And he was trying to compel them out 197 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: of a sense of morality, to beat them with the 198 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 1: stick of justice. He was right. He started national conversation 199 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: on on reparations around religion that had never been started before, 200 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: and there was a huge, huge, This was front page 201 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: news and it really I mean, he did something. It 202 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: was like a thunderclap, letting people know that this discussion 203 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 1: about the church and exploitation of Black Americans was joined money. 204 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,679 Speaker 1: That's the number one reason America it doesn't have a 205 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: reparations program for the living ancestors of enslaved African Americans 206 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: because it'll cost her money. Moo lah. That's where the 207 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: rubber meets the road. America is in debt to Black people, 208 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: monetarily and spiritually. You take it from early activists like 209 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: Queen Mother Moore and your favorite Whitney Cally House, who 210 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: are pioneers in the reparations movement. You know, I love Kelly, 211 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:25,719 Speaker 1: but really loved James Foreman. I mean, I think that 212 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: what he did and what I think is like so 213 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: fascinating about the manifesto is that it wasn't just so 214 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: specific and like clear, but also the way that Revere 215 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 1: Kimbell responded to it. I think that what he said 216 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: something and I'm paraphrasing him here I can't really remember, 217 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: it is something about he said you might not like 218 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:44,079 Speaker 1: what he said, you might not like the way he 219 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 1: said it, but the questions he's posed are properly before 220 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,199 Speaker 1: the house. And so it really comes down to money. 221 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: As you say, it's like what is owed, but also 222 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: who's going to pay it? That's true but we can't 223 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: oversimplify this because there are other necessary factors involved, like 224 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: an apology for slavery, psychological damage, healing, reconciliation, untangling, lots 225 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 1: of heinous legislation that's cooked into the books. Yeah, but 226 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 1: a big money payment is still be peanuts. I mean, 227 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: in theory, it should be equal to the amount of 228 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: money enslaved Africans have earned in labor unpaid funding. We 229 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: blacks invested in you, White America. The debt has come 230 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: due with me and the bill is staggering. How much 231 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: you got in your pockets player, You know, Erica may 232 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: not not very much. And I think that's kind of 233 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: how a lot of what Americans feel like they don't 234 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: have necessarily have a lot of money, and what they 235 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: do they worked really hard for, and they don't see 236 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: the advantages that, you know, they might not have money 237 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: in their pocket, but they have something else. They have 238 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: opportunities and advantages that really can't be calculated. And I 239 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: think that's kind of the question we're exploring here. You know, 240 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: what is the number that can make up not only 241 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 1: for what was taken with black Americans, but all so 242 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: for what was not given right. So James Foreman, this disruptor. 243 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: He visited Reverend Campbell the night before his Sunday stunt 244 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 1: to ask him for permission to address the service. I mean, 245 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: he's trying to do it the right way. But Campbell declined. 246 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: So Foreman did his thing, and you and you heard 247 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: the congregation booing. Why I was there to see it, 248 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: but you know he was undaunted. Campbell came back strong though. 249 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: After a regroup that same Sunday, he spoke about Foreman's manifesto. 250 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: He spoke about the evils of the white man and 251 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: the black man's mistreatment from the white men. But he 252 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: also says that whites have inherited this system. Now, this 253 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: is where it starts to get a little dodgy, and 254 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: he posits that there's a statue of limitations. You gotta 255 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: get that lone limitation on the pain and suffering of 256 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: black people, But there is a limit on the time 257 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: that white people have to rectify, recognize, and repair the 258 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: destruction of black citizens, their most valuable asset creators. You know, 259 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: he acknowledges the validity of the question. I'm not sure 260 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: he's ready for the answer that a full accounting is 261 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: going to provide. I mean, That's really the question, right, Erica, 262 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: what is the number? How do you quantify what is owed? Well, 263 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: if we're talking about the debt that we got to 264 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 1: talk to uber economist Dr William Derty and he's got numbers. 265 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: I mean Whitney, you know, he wasn't always for reparations. 266 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: He was a skeptic. I see reparations as something that 267 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: is supposed to be rejuvenative of a community that has 268 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: been long, long decimated by American racism. But I don't 269 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 1: necessarily see that as being a process that would inflict 270 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: any type of unique harm on the non black population 271 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: of the United Say, that's a huge relief for me 272 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: to hear. I guess. I don't see reparations as a 273 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: matter of individual or personal guilt. I see it as 274 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: a matter of national responsibility and obligation. And I can't 275 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: say what the consequences would be for the country as 276 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 1: a whole if it never happens. It hasn't happened in 277 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,919 Speaker 1: a hundred fifty six years. But I certainly can have 278 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: the expectation that black lives will continue to be stunted 279 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: and denied full opportunity if a step like this is 280 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 1: not taken. Take US through a little bit like what 281 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 1: you believe the debt is and how you're calculating it. 282 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:47,639 Speaker 1: The Black American population that is descended from persons enslaved 283 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: in the US is about thirteen percent of the nation's population, 284 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 1: but possesses about two and a half percent of the 285 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:59,399 Speaker 1: nation's wealth. This corresponds to a situation in which the 286 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 1: average black household has a net worth that is now 287 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 1: almost eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars less than the 288 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: average white household. We view that racial wealth differential as 289 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:18,679 Speaker 1: capturing the cumulative intergenerational effects of racism in American society. 290 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: We set as the target for a reparations plan elimination 291 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: of that gap and bringing the black share of wealth 292 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: into consistency with the black share of the nation's population. 293 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 1: And that would require at least ten to twelve trillion 294 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 1: dollars and resources to be transferred to Black Americans. And 295 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 1: how are you calculating that number? So we estimate, based 296 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: upon the Federal Reserve Survey of Consumer Finances, that the 297 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: total required per household would be about eight hundred and 298 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars. There are approximately fifteen million households that 299 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 1: can syst of persons who are descendants of the folks 300 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,680 Speaker 1: who were enslaved in the United States, and so simply 301 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 1: by multiplying the fifteen million by approximately eight fifty thousand, 302 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 1: you come up with that number. Hi, it's Joy read again, 303 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,200 Speaker 1: and we're back with the next round of the privileged game. 304 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 1: They're so pretty far apart, but let's get into the 305 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 1: next round of questions to see if Erica can catch 306 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: up to Whitney. Eric and Whitney, can both of you 307 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: still hear me? I can hear you better than I 308 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: can hear Erica. I knew you guys would be far apartful. Wow, 309 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: you can't even talk to each other now. Yeah, whatever, 310 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 1: here's the next question. If one or both of your 311 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: parents were white collar professionals, doctors, lawyers, etcetera. Take one 312 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 1: step forward. Here I go, Whitney reving. If you were 313 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: raised in an area where there was prostitution, drug activity, etcetera, 314 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: take one step back. I'm good. We're both standing in place. 315 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 1: If you ever tried to change your appearance, mannerisms, or 316 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 1: behavior to avoid being judged or ridiculed, take one step back. 317 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,440 Speaker 1: But we probably all did, right. No, No, you're still 318 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 1: standing damn if you study the culture of your ancestors 319 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 1: in elementary school, take one step forward. That's definitely me. 320 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 1: It looks like a dot here. If you went to 321 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,880 Speaker 1: school speaking a language other than English, take one step back. 322 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: Look at them. Every step he just keeps moving and moving. 323 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: Oh man, wow, we think you're a mile away. This 324 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,120 Speaker 1: is an absolute blood letting Erica, girl, I can see 325 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,119 Speaker 1: how this is gonna end. But I'm looking at the 326 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,360 Speaker 1: time and I gotta go. I need to get ready 327 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 1: for my TV show, The read Out. Catch you two later. 328 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 1: We'll see you. Joy, thanks, Joy to the world. White 329 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: privilege not just white privilege. This is about privilege. It's 330 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 1: not just d n A. It's also the luck. You know. 331 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: I feel lucky, even though I'm way back here. Shoot, 332 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: don't tell me I'm not lucky. Okay, So, Erica, I 333 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 1: can see you. Can you hear me? Erica? Are we 334 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,959 Speaker 1: far away from each other? Yeah? You're We started off 335 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: in the middle of the block. You're almost at the end. 336 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 1: I'm still in the middle, but further from the middle. 337 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: I hope you appreciate this privilege. He appreciates it, you 338 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: know what, though, I'm sorry to realize, man, I did 339 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: pretty good not knowing that I didn't have all these advantages. 340 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:34,439 Speaker 1: If you've ever been cast on a major network sitcom 341 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,200 Speaker 1: and been the star of stage and screen, take five 342 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: hundred steps forward. Wait, Eric is coming, she's coming fast. 343 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 1: She's blowing by me and she uh, she's out of 344 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:58,120 Speaker 1: sight something what five sixty Wow, that's what network TV 345 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:04,200 Speaker 1: does for you. I blew right past you, Whitney, So long, Whitey. 346 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: What did we learn here that being white and mail 347 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: is a good thing and being a star of stage 348 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: screen is a great thing. Yeah, but it didn't make 349 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 1: up for all that other stuff. Okay, I'm coming up now. 350 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,159 Speaker 1: We're talking about you being an actor and famous, but 351 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 1: that's everything else on this question is just everyday things, 352 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 1: and that's what separates it. Not everybody gets to be 353 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 1: cast and TV shows and movies. So it was like 354 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: winning the lottery that changed my life. And that's absurd 355 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 1: that you have to win the lottery in order to 356 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:44,680 Speaker 1: get some sort of balancing factor. And it's what you 357 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: know I said to you earlier at one point, is 358 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 1: that I don't want to give up what I have. 359 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 1: I want everybody to have what I have. But what 360 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 1: I don't believe that you can have everything you have 361 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 1: without black people having to give up everything. So you 362 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: must give up something. So that's what we're sort of exploring. 363 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: I think a lot of times people say, oh, it's 364 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: it's not a zero sum game. I do agree that 365 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 1: it is a zero sum game, that that there is 366 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: gonna you have to give up to get something. So 367 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 1: but that was that was interesting, That was fun. That 368 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: was fun for you because you kept moving forward. What 369 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 1: are you talking about, Oh, that was fun. Oh you 370 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: know what it's like when you go to amusement park 371 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 1: and you're wondering because you've been standing in line all 372 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 1: day and there's a family and they just move forward 373 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: and you go, man, they must got the hookup. That's 374 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: what it's like for black people looking at white people, 375 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,640 Speaker 1: that you're always thinking they've got the hook up. It's 376 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 1: it's not even a joke with us. We know we 377 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 1: look at white people and they automatically they got the 378 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: hook up privileges, the hook up privileges, the hook up 379 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: see you later unless these grant thanks a lot. Yeah. So, Whitney, 380 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: the privileged game did like we knew it would. But 381 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 1: a powerful way to change the results of the game 382 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,439 Speaker 1: is through reparations. Now. I know it's no magic bullet, 383 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,439 Speaker 1: I got it, but it beats the slow death if 384 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: a thousand cuts African Americans are experiencing. Now, we need 385 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: to talk to some folks who can help us do 386 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,160 Speaker 1: the math and calculate what's old so we can get 387 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,920 Speaker 1: going on this. I mean, please, I don't want to 388 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 1: keep playing that game again and just keep losing. My 389 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 1: name is Bob Johnson. I'm the founder of Black Entertainment 390 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 1: Television and the r l J Companies. Bobby j Okay 391 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: right now. He has been on record for demanding the U. 392 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,360 Speaker 1: S Government paid fourteen trillion dollars to the descendants of slaves, 393 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,639 Speaker 1: and he makes a hell of a case it. He 394 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: also believes that Black Americans are giving away their wealth 395 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,879 Speaker 1: because they're left out of the many incentives of home ownership, 396 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: the biggest transfer. Well, if you think about this home ownership. 397 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: When you own a home, two things happen. One, the 398 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: government gives you a tax deduction for the interests you 399 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 1: pay on the homeowner mortgage, So one, the government is 400 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:13,200 Speaker 1: subsidizing your home. The second thing is home ownership has 401 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 1: been the backbone of well creation in this society, and 402 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 1: so the home appreciates, and when you sell it, you 403 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: have more money than when you're invested in it. So 404 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,879 Speaker 1: white Americans on about seventy the ratio of homeownership and 405 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 1: white Americans about se Black Americans about So white Americans 406 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 1: own more homes then Black Americans and therefore get the 407 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: benefit of the tax deduction and the appreciation. Now Black 408 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,920 Speaker 1: Americans are subsidizing that because if they don't have the 409 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 1: down payment for the home, they have to rent. When 410 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,640 Speaker 1: you rent, as anybody who knows who rents an apartment 411 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 1: or rent any kind of property, no you don't get 412 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: a tax deduction for rent an apartment in the urban 413 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: markets or any place. So you are in effect playing 414 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: the same tax. So if you make forty dollars, your 415 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 1: taxes on your forty dollars of income, but you don't 416 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: get that tax deduction which reduces your tax. The white 417 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: American who has access to capital can get that tax deduction. 418 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: That's a wealth transfer. So many black families who rent 419 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: are subsidizing white ownership because they are not getting the 420 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: tax deduction. They're paying full tax, while the Latin American 421 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 1: can deduct the tax on their home ownership. Because that's 422 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: the federal government rule. And so that's a wealth transfer. 423 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:48,359 Speaker 1: Labor is a wealth transfer. Access to paying taxes greater 424 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: than the other person is a wealth transfer. And so 425 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: where does that money come from? To transfer that money back, 426 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 1: you're saying just to take it out of the budget. 427 00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,880 Speaker 1: Should there be a reparation's tax? What is the way 428 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: you create that revenue? Same way the government always creates wevenue. 429 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 1: You get the revenue from the the individual taxpayers in 430 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,439 Speaker 1: this country. Keep in mind, there's no such thing as 431 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,440 Speaker 1: government money. Now, government can print money and create more money, 432 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: but fundamentally, the way the government pays for itself for 433 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:25,879 Speaker 1: military expenses, health care expenses, social services is by taxing people. 434 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,680 Speaker 1: So it's utterly the money belongs to the people. So 435 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 1: reparations is a way of saying to the people of 436 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 1: this country three million plus people, forty million black. It's saying, look, 437 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 1: we need to repair our nation by giving everybody an 438 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 1: equal opportunity and paying damages for people who were treated 439 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: horribly for more than two hundred plus years. Economist Dr 440 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,119 Speaker 1: Julian malvo I love her me the case for reparations 441 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 1: in two thousand nineteen, which he testified at the HR 442 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 1: forty hearing, which calls for the establishment of a commission 443 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: to study reparations for Black Americans. People are very uncomfortable 444 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,920 Speaker 1: talking about what they owe us. It's very uncomfortable to 445 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,959 Speaker 1: talk about the fact that the foundations of our nation's 446 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 1: economy rests on the backs of black people. We would 447 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 1: not have a wall street, a bond market absent black labor, 448 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,920 Speaker 1: absent extracting the value of the work of enslaved black people. 449 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:31,719 Speaker 1: But when you begin to talk about it from an 450 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: economic perspective, people get really very uncomfortable because then you 451 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 1: also have to talk about the nature of capitalism. You 452 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: have to talk about something called predatory capitalism. Predatory capitalism 453 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: gives you the ability to think of five people, basically 454 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: dehumanize people. Dr King called a thing of five. You know, 455 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: when we talk about reparations, We've got a piece of legislation, 456 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 1: a powerful piece of legislations HR forty, which would essentially 457 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: set up a commission to look at what form reparation 458 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: might take. I believe that there's a combination remedy that 459 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,719 Speaker 1: includes the repair of our communities. We had a hundred 460 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: plus black owned banks in the early twentieth century. Now 461 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 1: we have twenty three, Well, what did we lose? And 462 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: we lost lots because essentially was a time period where 463 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 1: black people were making advances even though we didn't get 464 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 1: the forty acres in the mule, and then whitefolds bucked 465 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: up and said, wait a minute, these people moving too far, 466 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 1: too fast. We need to stop this stuff. And that's 467 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 1: where you got the lynchings, the gym crow laws. Give 468 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 1: us a tab. What's the bill. We can calculate the 469 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: value of enslaved work from sixteen nineteen, eighteen sixty five, 470 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: but we can also calculate the value of extorted work 471 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,719 Speaker 1: from eighteen sixty five to nineteen sixty five. We can 472 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: also talk about the value what has happened with economic 473 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: discrimination and the value of that from nineteen sixty five 474 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: until a present. We could look at the Emergency Land Fund, 475 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: which is an organization that looked at the loss of 476 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: black land and how we had land and they took 477 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: it away from us. We could talk about the black 478 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 1: people who were banished with the sundown towns. One day 479 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 1: you wake up, they say, y'all got to get out 480 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 1: of town right now. So there's so many pieces that 481 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 1: you can calculate, and this this is the reckoning that 482 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 1: our country has to have. You have a wealth gap 483 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: where you have one black dollar for it right now 484 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: for every thirteen white dollars today. In nineteen ten, it 485 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 1: was one black dollar for every sixteen. So think about that. 486 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: And of course, of more than a hundred years we've 487 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 1: had that little progress. Now the number does go up 488 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 1: and down, but one sixteen, one thirteen, and it really 489 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: does speak to why reparations are important, and who gets 490 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 1: these reparations and how are they divvied up. I feel 491 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 1: more strongly about community repair than the individual repair, but 492 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 1: many feel there should be some check cuts, some kind 493 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 1: of way. Okay, I'm not going to strongly object to that. 494 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: If we leave that it's not just enslavement, but also 495 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 1: the post enslavement period, the g I Bill, the Homestead Act, 496 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 1: all that exclusion. If you believe that, then whether you 497 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 1: got here in sixteen nineteen or in or even in 498 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine, you've experienced some form of damage because 499 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 1: of this oppressive system. How do we slice the pie. 500 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: Let's get a pie first, and then let's talk about 501 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 1: it right on Julianne. And if there's gonna be pie, 502 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: I'll take a huge piece of Pecan oh in Whitney 503 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 1: on Capitol Hill. Wait, I use my upper crust voice. 504 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: We had movement on HR forty when football legend Herschel 505 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: Walker lent his um expertise in soaring rhetoric to the 506 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 1: reparations testimony going on in Congress. Let's listen in we 507 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: use black power to create white guilt. My approach is biblical. 508 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 1: How can I ask my heaven as farm to forgive 509 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 1: me if I can't forgive my brother. I never want 510 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 1: to put anyone religion down, but my religion teach togetherness, reparation, 511 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 1: teach separation. Men have died trying to get into America. 512 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: No one is dying trying to get out reparation. Wherever 513 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 1: the money comes from, Who is black? What percentage of 514 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 1: black must you be to receive reparation? If reparation is 515 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 1: a fee or a correction for a terrible sin of 516 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 1: slave owners, government and others. But we punished the non 517 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 1: guilty party. Is it not creating division or separation with 518 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 1: different races? Reparation I feel it continues to let us 519 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 1: know we're still African American rather than just America. No, 520 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 1: not exactly a touchdown, but in all fairness, just because 521 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 1: Herschel's on the field doesn't mean he's on your team. 522 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 1: So I don't think one should throw him the reparations 523 00:32:55,240 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 1: football and not expect a fumble. Child. Please good luck giljecone. 524 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 1: Next time on Reparations the Big Payback, we meet the 525 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 1: trailblazers of the reparations movement. Calli House was a black 526 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: woman who had been a slave, and the federal government 527 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 1: got concerned. They decided because letters were coming from white 528 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,719 Speaker 1: people saying, the Negroes are meeting in churches and they 529 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: come out saying and talking about someday we're gonna get something. 530 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 1: So you need to do something about that woman who's 531 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,480 Speaker 1: going around there stirn them up. And so they decided 532 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 1: to go after her. And they said that she was 533 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 1: using the mails to defraud because she was telling black 534 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:43,760 Speaker 1: people that she was going to negroes that she was 535 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 1: gonna try to get the federal government give them some money. 536 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 1: And she should know the federal government is never gonna 537 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 1: give negroes any money. That's the way they put it. 538 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: So it was fraud to be organizing people. And so 539 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 1: you can trace the present day reparations movement all the 540 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:03,400 Speaker 1: way back to Calis House and her ex lay Pension Movement. 541 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 1: This podcast is produced by Eric Alexander, Ben ar Noon 542 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,799 Speaker 1: and Whitney DApp. The executive producers are Charlemagne the God 543 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,960 Speaker 1: and Dolly S. Bishop. The Supervising producer is Nicole Childers 544 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 1: and the lead producers Devin Maverick Robbins, The producer writer 545 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 1: Serice Castle, and the associate producers Kevin Famm. With additional 546 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:30,239 Speaker 1: research support provided by Nile Blast. Original music by d 547 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:39,400 Speaker 1: J D t P Reparations. The Big Payback is a 548 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: production of color Farm Media, I Heart Radio and The 549 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 1: Black Effect Podcast Network in association with best Case Studios. 550 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,800 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the I 551 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,360 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to 552 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:54,280 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.