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Speaker 3: Welcome back to All the smoke La Run Jack. We've
Speaker 3: been on a nice little role man from New York
Speaker 3: to our first interview with Cheaching Chung and now we
Speaker 3: get to sit down with someone I've been chasing for
Speaker 3: a minute, man, and just not chasing. But what's the word,
Speaker 3: Give me a better word, Rich.
Speaker 4: We've been trying to schedule.
Speaker 3: I've been going to didn't even let me finish, make
Speaker 3: me chase it with the wrong work, I say. We
Speaker 3: both on just super crazy busy schedules. And we actually
Speaker 3: got a chance to sit with each other the other
Speaker 3: night at the Laker Clipper game.
Speaker 4: Yeah, chopped it.
Speaker 1: Up a little bit.
Speaker 3: It was good to catch up. But man, welcome to
Speaker 3: the show, Rich Paula, thank you for your time. Let's
Speaker 3: get right to it, man Clutch. For those who don't know,
Speaker 3: and those who do know just explain what it is
Speaker 3: and what it means to you.
Speaker 4: Wow. I mean, you know, obviously I've been around with
Speaker 4: you guys when y'all was in the league. I had
Speaker 4: what I would think is an extensive understanding of the athlete,
Speaker 4: of the professional athlete and everything that is embodied. At
Speaker 4: the same time, you know, having an understanding of the
Speaker 4: person that the athlete just so happened to be and
Speaker 4: where they came from, whether you came from a probably
Speaker 4: strict environment all the way up to you know, a
Speaker 4: pretty upper class type of environment. So just having that
Speaker 4: range on top of having the understanding of the game
Speaker 4: of basketball and then understanding the business of basketball. I
Speaker 4: just felt like I had what most agents definitely don't have,
Speaker 4: you know, in terms of all of that in one
Speaker 4: and it would never be based on a business card
Speaker 4: for me, because I could really talk it and live
Speaker 4: it and breathe it. And so I decided to start Clutch,
Speaker 4: And what I wanted Clutch to represent was something that
Speaker 4: I felt like didn't exist in the marketplace at that time.
Speaker 4: When you guys were in the league, you had very
Speaker 4: little options and things was being manipulated without you even
Speaker 4: understanding what was the manipulation in front of you, right,
Speaker 4: I just wanted to make it. You came from a
Speaker 4: different path. Obviously, high school All American probably should have
Speaker 4: been in the league sooner rather than later. But you
Speaker 4: had to take a different route. You came from a
Speaker 4: different path going to UCLA, etc. And so but I
Speaker 4: understood both. And I'm in those rooms. I'm with you
Speaker 4: guys when you're gambling. I'm with you guys on the road.
Speaker 4: We at the club, we had dinners, and all of
Speaker 4: you embraced me without me having to be next to
Speaker 4: Lebron or whatnot. And so I already had the confidence
Speaker 4: to really take it to another level. And I knew
Speaker 4: exactly what the game was missing. And so when I
Speaker 4: got the opportunity to start clutch, all those things, all
Speaker 4: that that I had soaked up, those just been in
Speaker 4: those rooms and evaluating and listening and all those things
Speaker 4: I wanted to instill in the company and build a
Speaker 4: business that truly represented not just the athlete, but the
Speaker 4: person that happens to be a really great athlete. And
Speaker 4: so that's what we were able to build. It's it's
Speaker 4: been eleven and a half years so time definitely flies.
Speaker 4: I'm not gonna lie, man. I mean, we're up to
Speaker 4: what two fifteen now and county, right, and so we
Speaker 4: My focus has not so much shifted off of just
Speaker 4: being an agent. But that's that's not the that's not
Speaker 4: the only thing I am today, right. I have to
Speaker 4: run the company. I have to grow the company. I
Speaker 4: have to make sure the culture is there and you know,
Speaker 4: and empower people to do their job and things of
Speaker 4: that nature. And so I've evolved from just being an
Speaker 4: agent to really, you know, not just having a title
Speaker 4: for the sake of having it, actually doing the work.
Speaker 2: Several you feel like the upbringing and the upgreeing that
Speaker 2: we know about that forms you and to be able
Speaker 2: to do all these things and have your mindset to
Speaker 2: do all these things outside of Lebron pushing you your
Speaker 2: own your own focus, your own hustle.
Speaker 1: Did that come from your upbringing?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean because again, like I
Speaker 4: was already there, That's what I'm saying, you know, and
Speaker 4: so understood that I could talk to you with my
Speaker 4: eyes and on the same page.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 4: In addition to I was never I was never overly
Speaker 4: excited or overwhelmed about the environment. Right, I wasn't like, oh,
Speaker 4: I'm happy to be in the room. Yeah, I always
Speaker 4: felt I always felt that way, and not only did
Speaker 4: I belong there, I felt like I felt like I
Speaker 4: can add value to every one of y'all in here. Right.
Speaker 4: That's different and that's a different dynamic.
Speaker 1: And so.
Speaker 4: You know, the table didn't matter to me, right and so,
Speaker 4: but yeah, my upbringing, you know, my dad. I know
Speaker 4: we're gonna talk about the book a little bit, but
Speaker 4: my dad being who he was and getting up and
Speaker 4: going to work every day and exemplifying that for me,
Speaker 4: My uncle's my community that raised me, you know, just
Speaker 4: having responsibility and people holding me accountable. Right, that didn't
Speaker 4: necessarily have anything, Like you didn't have to have money
Speaker 4: to hold me accountable. Respect was already there. Wake up.
Speaker 4: And I think we're kind of losing that a little
Speaker 4: bit in today's in the league today, and definitely just
Speaker 4: in society and a whole as a whole. But to
Speaker 4: ask your question, yeah, I felt like that that definitely
Speaker 4: prepared me.
Speaker 3: For sure, not to throw around numbers, but I also
Speaker 3: think it needs to be celebrated. You know, the caliber
Speaker 3: and where you've taken. It's obviously not the first black.
Speaker 3: But the numbers don't lie on where you sit, you know,
Speaker 3: on this chart to this day. And I only asked
Speaker 3: because I want to make another point. The contract negotiations
Speaker 3: through your company. What's that number? Four billion, four billion
Speaker 3: dollars of contracts?
Speaker 1: Bro? Congratulations?
Speaker 3: So my question was, what kind of how have the
Speaker 3: hurdles changed from when you first came in, because keep
Speaker 3: it real, your kid off the streets, Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 3: you didn't take the typical route.
Speaker 1: You did it your.
Speaker 3: Way, and you want your winning your way. You haven't won.
Speaker 3: You continue to growing that spot, Bob. So what is
Speaker 3: it like dealing with some of these good old boy
Speaker 3: owners or just kind of being able to get your
Speaker 3: foot solidified in this space today?
Speaker 4: Honestly, it's a lot different. Like I'm you know, I'm
Speaker 4: welcomed in room. I'm really I'm embraced, I'm celebrated, you know,
Speaker 4: I talked to I'm in different investments with owners and
Speaker 4: things like that. In a totally different world today. When
Speaker 4: I first started, it was tough because number one, you know,
Speaker 4: no one looked at me as someone that was capable
Speaker 4: of doing the job without even knowing if I could
Speaker 4: or not. And you know, quite honestly, they expect you
Speaker 4: to only be a part of the crew or the posse.
Speaker 4: What Phil Jackson said, right, and so I never I
Speaker 4: never exuded that. My confidence never exuded that when you
Speaker 4: spoke to me about anything, right, it never it never
Speaker 4: told you that this was a part of the posse.
Speaker 4: Get what I'm saying, and I try to explain to
Speaker 4: the young guys next to the athlete today, is you know,
Speaker 4: there's no entitlement for you because you are being allowed
Speaker 4: in the room or being allowed a seat at the
Speaker 4: table or seat at the hookah bar, or whatever the
Speaker 4: case may be. You want to try to have an
Speaker 4: understanding of what your position is now and how you
Speaker 4: can add value. And you don't necessarily have to be
Speaker 4: the guy to do that, right. I think understanding how
Speaker 4: the quarterback a situation is extremely valuable. It's just as
Speaker 4: valuable as actually doing the work. Because any one of you,
Speaker 4: if I said to you, hey, you know I know
Speaker 4: this person, this person, this person, I'm gonna bring them
Speaker 4: to the table, You're gonna want to keep me around
Speaker 4: because I opened your eyes to something, right, And I
Speaker 4: think oftentimes we get in the positions that we're in
Speaker 4: and we don't like to give it. I want to
Speaker 4: give it. That's all I've been trying to do is
Speaker 4: give it. But there's a there's a reluctance. Even though
Speaker 4: I got this movie on DVD, I have it on VHS, right,
Speaker 4: I have the movie to understand exactly what it is
Speaker 4: to stand next to an athlete and create a position
Speaker 4: for yourself and then you know, continue to evolve. But
Speaker 4: there's a reluctance because people want to be the only
Speaker 4: one in the room.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: The one thing I'm proud about with our success and
Speaker 4: my success is individually, is the people before me is
Speaker 4: now getting they just do you know, the agents before me,
Speaker 4: they didn't make the money that they're able to make today.
Speaker 4: They didn't position themselves. They couldn't position themselves the way
Speaker 4: I was able to position myself. And really, you know,
Speaker 4: it'll be hard for them to create a brand within
Speaker 4: themselves like I've been able to. But as long as
Speaker 4: they exit properly and be able to, you know, not
Speaker 4: have to work as hard as they once did. You
Speaker 4: can't get to a certain age and think you're going
Speaker 4: to be in gems all day, like just you know,
Speaker 4: just like y'all can't play forever. Yeah, it's not realistic.
Speaker 4: But to see them get there, just do is something
Speaker 4: that I'm extremely proud of, and it's important because I
Speaker 4: couldn't be myself without them. And when I had that
Speaker 4: conversation on ESPN, I wasn't saying it to try to
Speaker 4: put anybody down. I was saying it because I was like,
Speaker 4: my mindset was totally different in terms of business. I
Speaker 4: was thinking in a very from a very different point
Speaker 4: of view, and I couldn't understand why they had spent
Speaker 4: all this time prior and wasn't already thinking that way.
Speaker 4: It should have been the other way around. It should be, oh,
Speaker 4: you're doing this, or I just heard this. Let me
Speaker 4: tell you what you shouldn't do, what you should do,
Speaker 4: why you should do it that way, the mistakes I made,
Speaker 4: what to look out for, And that's you know, that's
Speaker 4: just not the world we live in because we compete
Speaker 4: so much, or the thought is compete so much, but
Speaker 4: today it doesn't really. Having a number one pick doesn't
Speaker 4: do anything for me today. It don't like I'm not
Speaker 4: around here. There's no want for me to have every
Speaker 4: number one pick because every opportunity that's given to me.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna treat that person as if they are the
Speaker 4: number one So that don't mean nothing. I'm not going
Speaker 4: into the next living room saying, oh, I had the
Speaker 4: number one pick last year. You not don't care about
Speaker 4: that with your sons, Like who cares about that?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 4: But that's what we're conditioned to think as quote unquote agents.
Speaker 4: But I'm not an agent. I'm a business guy at
Speaker 4: the highest level that you know, a creator, you know, innovator, mogo,
Speaker 4: all the things you want to do, all the things
Speaker 4: that they say about me. I don't digest that and
Speaker 4: become complacent. I hear it. I don't invest in it.
Speaker 4: I just try to do the work and let the
Speaker 4: work speak speak saying nothing. You know. And so today,
Speaker 4: you know, you look at guys. We got two guys
Speaker 4: coming up that was twenty and twenty one Jayalen Johnson
Speaker 4: was twenty Tyrese Maxie was twenty one in their respective drafts.
Speaker 4: Those guys are gonna have no different opportunity than your
Speaker 4: number one pick. And the difference between those guys. I
Speaker 4: get up every day loving to go to work for
Speaker 4: those guys because they appreciate it. See the higher pick.
Speaker 4: Sometimes it allows you to not appreciate the work that's
Speaker 4: being done, and who wants That's not a job you
Speaker 4: want to do, right, And so I've totally I've been
Speaker 4: out of that for a long time. I've like, people
Speaker 4: don't see me around chasing number one picks. That's not my.
Speaker 3: Style, right, That's what you have the problem saying chasing
Speaker 3: he's thinking that kind of yeah.
Speaker 4: I mean that's that's not my style. And you know,
Speaker 4: people see people may take that the wrong way. No,
Speaker 4: because I'm looking for the number one person, the character
Speaker 4: within them. You guys know today we just talked about you,
Speaker 4: was talking about your growth. Think about your age and
Speaker 4: all the things you had to go through, and if
Speaker 4: you had somebody next to you giving you the game,
Speaker 4: you would be in a different place.
Speaker 1: I've been a five times, six time.
Speaker 4: This is what I'm this is what I'm saying, right,
Speaker 4: So that's my thing. And so my whole goal was
Speaker 4: to I understand, I can't represent every player. That's not realistic, right,
Speaker 4: and we only deal with real We can't we can't
Speaker 4: live in a fictitious world. But I wanted to change
Speaker 4: how the landscape was being you know, kind of position
Speaker 4: and how guys was being represented. And so if my
Speaker 4: hustle and my grind and my wherewithal and my work
Speaker 4: ethic and all those things made other people have to
Speaker 4: change the way they were doing things and it changed
Speaker 4: it overall.
Speaker 1: For the better.
Speaker 3: And congratulations, could you've done it and you continue to
Speaker 3: do it and continue to lead the way. I think
Speaker 3: it's beautiful. It kind of leads me to my next
Speaker 3: question from a standpoint of what does make you excited
Speaker 3: at this point of the game?
Speaker 1: Though?
Speaker 4: Oh, I mean, you know, I love that when you
Speaker 4: sat there and talked basketball. I actually just really talk
Speaker 4: basketball and really just think.
Speaker 3: That he told me the other day about it.
Speaker 4: Listen, that's true. But no, I think I think really
Speaker 4: seeing guys evolve, right, because I think we put so
Speaker 4: much emphasis on being lit and making the money and
Speaker 4: having you know, and and and not really educating ourselves, right,
Speaker 4: And so for me, I lead with that so much
Speaker 4: that my meetings are going to be very boring to
Speaker 4: most people because there's no candy there, right, But if
Speaker 4: you can really pay attention, you're going to be why
Speaker 4: they and you're one, you're already in your five and
Speaker 4: you know, oftentimes people say, well, how are you gonna
Speaker 4: pay my son attention?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 4: You got all these guys et cetera. Well, that's actually
Speaker 4: beneficial to you because there's no chance you're allowing a
Speaker 4: first time heart surgeon to do your heart surgery. So
Speaker 4: why would you allow a first time agent to represent
Speaker 4: or why would you Yeah, why would you even put
Speaker 4: value in just your son?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 4: That doesn't make that doesn't make sense. So today, you know,
Speaker 4: my focus is I do all the things I do
Speaker 4: to get through these doors and leave them open, you know,
Speaker 4: because again, you're not just athletes, you know, you're just
Speaker 4: You're not gonna play this game forever. And everyone wants
Speaker 4: to be a brand, and everyone wants to have you know,
Speaker 4: their face on products and things like that. But we
Speaker 4: know that's not realistic either. The only thing that's actually
Speaker 4: realistic is you have a build an opportunity in front
Speaker 4: of you to make guaranteed money for as many years
Speaker 4: as you possibly can, and educate yourself enough to have
Speaker 4: an understanding of and an importance of infrastructure where you
Speaker 4: can diversify your portfolio and allow that to compound and
Speaker 4: repeat those things.
Speaker 3: In other words, keep the ship.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because we do things you know that we do
Speaker 4: things accessively and we make it about us and people
Speaker 4: around you make it about you. But you got to
Speaker 4: understand how you've been evaluated. From an ownership perspective. It
Speaker 4: can only be about you, right. And the NBA is
Speaker 4: a machine, NFL is a machine, MLB these are organizations.
Speaker 4: These are individuals. You know, these are organizations. And so
Speaker 4: I think the sooner you can gain perspective on life
Speaker 4: on business, it allows you to to evolve a little
Speaker 4: bit sooner than most. And mature and maturation just just
Speaker 4: there's a business acumen of maturation. There's a personal perspective
Speaker 4: of maturation.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 4: We're all fathers here. Kids would make you grow up.
Speaker 4: It's not a cool thing to have kids early when
Speaker 4: you're still a kid, right, right, because it makes you
Speaker 4: make decisions that you probably wouldn't have made. But it's
Speaker 4: a hard thing. And we put ourselves through that thinking
Speaker 4: that what this was the thing to do. We're just
Speaker 4: now understanding how to do it. And if you have
Speaker 4: them later in life, you're a little bit more settled
Speaker 4: and you under and you can spare the time and
Speaker 4: it's a different dynamic. And so it's the same thing
Speaker 4: in business and in sports as well, Like your approach
Speaker 4: is so important, right understanding. I remember talking to Eric
Speaker 4: Bless some one time and I was getting on him
Speaker 4: about stretching. He was a rookie by his fourth year.
Speaker 4: He was like, bro, I wish I would have listened
Speaker 4: to you as as a rookie. Yeah, because cause you know,
Speaker 4: it's these little detailed things is so important.
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Speaker 3: I haven't got a chance to read this yet, but
Speaker 3: congratulations on Lucky Me. Thank you New York Times Bestseller.
Speaker 3: A few questions. Was it therapeutic and what was the
Speaker 3: process of finding the correct writer that's really going to
Speaker 3: tell your story the right way?
Speaker 4: You know, first of all, that book is about you,
Speaker 4: It's about Stack, it's about myself, it's about a lot
Speaker 4: of people in this room. It was definitely therapeutic because
Speaker 4: I didn't know I needed to write it until it
Speaker 4: was written. I didn't know I needed to exude that
Speaker 4: trauma that was built inside of me, like is in
Speaker 4: most of us. Most people have had to overcome something
Speaker 4: within right. And we're not looking for a pity party.
Speaker 4: But you don't know necessarily what you need to get
Speaker 4: out of you until you actually have the confidence enough
Speaker 4: to let it go right. Where you grieve in something,
Speaker 4: whether it's something on your mind that you just need
Speaker 4: to talk to somebody about. That relief is important, and
Speaker 4: that's what the book did for me, you know, growing
Speaker 4: up the way I did, losing my mom, losing my
Speaker 4: dad at nineteen, losing my mom when I was thirty six,
Speaker 4: but even more importantly, I didn't grow up with my mom,
Speaker 4: and so those nights, having to relive those nights at
Speaker 4: the age of four and five and six and seven,
Speaker 4: and you know, my mom missing birthdays and never being
Speaker 4: at a game and graduation and things like that, and
Speaker 4: me still having the the understanding of and the want
Speaker 4: to continue to love and also valuing you know what,
Speaker 4: what a mom actually brings to a family. After all that, yeah,
Speaker 4: after all that, and never never wanting to disrespect her,
Speaker 4: And first of all, I couldn't it could work. First
Speaker 4: of all, she wasn't going over there anyway. The second
Speaker 4: I wouldn't have done that anyway, right, And so just
Speaker 4: just digesting all of that and having to have that
Speaker 4: on my stomach while then going out and having to
Speaker 4: make the right choices, right, not having that I don't
Speaker 4: care type of mentality, because you know, you could take
Speaker 4: a multiple choice test and put abacadaba, is that what
Speaker 4: you want to do? That was his game plan regards
Speaker 4: my only choice, what I wanted to do what I
Speaker 4: want to do, but I also I chose to actually
Speaker 4: do the opposite in the fourth grade, getting yourself to
Speaker 4: school and different things like that. And you know, I
Speaker 4: had plenty of friends that had it just as bad
Speaker 4: or if not worse than I did. But what they
Speaker 4: didn't have is the mental toughness and the clarity to
Speaker 4: and the confidence to continue to push forward. And so
Speaker 4: I talk about a lot of those things in that book.
Speaker 4: And there's a rule in each chapter because I think,
Speaker 4: you know, you can make a mistake, that's just experience, right,
Speaker 4: You learn from it, you move on repeated mistakes. It's
Speaker 4: the only thing I consider a failure, right, because we're
Speaker 4: all human, right, none of us is perfect. And so
Speaker 4: talk about that a lot in the book. The aspect
Speaker 4: of the title being lucky Me is pretty sarcastic because
Speaker 4: I actually wasn't well. I was lucky enough to have
Speaker 4: a community to look after me the way they did.
Speaker 4: I was lucky enough to have a dad to really
Speaker 4: care and to hold me accountable for certain things, for
Speaker 4: all things, really without having an understanding of what was
Speaker 4: going on right then and there, but he was preparing
Speaker 4: me for life. He had an understanding of where we
Speaker 4: sat on that corner every day in that environment, and
Speaker 4: so he was preparing us, me and my siblings to
Speaker 4: make life decisions right, decisions that will help save your
Speaker 4: life in some shape, form or fashion. I didn't know
Speaker 4: that at the time, but when I started to look back,
Speaker 4: when he passed away and I was nineteen, it was
Speaker 4: like I was thirty already, right, and so on in
Speaker 4: my first home when I was that age and having
Speaker 4: just an understanding of you know not, I never really
Speaker 4: horse played. I didn't play video games. I didn't do
Speaker 4: any of that per se. So I never really had
Speaker 4: a childhood that most kids have, which caused me to
Speaker 4: kind of grow up fast. But my community raised me
Speaker 4: as well, and so I was thankful for that, and
Speaker 4: I was lucky to have that. But then the not
Speaker 4: so lucky part is it's all the other things that
Speaker 4: come with it, right, and just a child without a
Speaker 4: mom that just don't sit well with me, right. And
Speaker 4: I used to be sitting there and I couldn't you know,
Speaker 4: it's bad weather or and you don't know where your
Speaker 4: that's just the thing. You don't know where your mom
Speaker 4: is and things of that nature. That's a really tough
Speaker 4: thing on the brain of a child whose brain isn't
Speaker 4: even that developed yet, and so all that's in the book.
Speaker 4: It's a lot different than what you may think. And
Speaker 4: the response has been incredible from man, I mean everybody,
Speaker 4: from high level executives of all business sectors to you know,
Speaker 4: just I can't tell you how many how many times
Speaker 4: I'm in the airport or something like that and people
Speaker 4: come up to me, no matter what race or gender,
Speaker 4: age and just talk about the book, talk about the
Speaker 4: sixty minutes piece and things like that, and so it's
Speaker 4: been great. It's been great. I'm glad I wrote it,
Speaker 4: and I think when you guys get a chance to
Speaker 4: read it, you're definitely gonna call me.
Speaker 2: I was thinking that Lucky to me was a play on,
Speaker 2: like everybody think you hear only because of Lebron, like
Speaker 2: lucky me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm here because of Lebron. I'm lucky because I'm
Speaker 1: not lucky. I earned this shit.
Speaker 2: So I thought it was a player on, like y'all
Speaker 2: saying I'm lucky because I'm next to Lebron. But really,
Speaker 2: I've got a lot to do with this. I've been
Speaker 2: playing this for my life since a youngster. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: you're not wrong about that.
Speaker 4: There's just they're just they's a small aspect. You know,
Speaker 4: I'm a pretty sarcastic person.
Speaker 1: I want to be.
Speaker 4: There's a small duose that I think. It's more so
Speaker 4: just I think people would quate luck with money, people
Speaker 4: would quate luck with success and things like that, and
Speaker 4: so they're quick to say you lucky and versus really
Speaker 4: just you know, having a conversation or just giving you
Speaker 4: your flowers and saying, man, you know what, it's so hard,
Speaker 4: it's crazy to do that. And even in our industry now,
Speaker 4: it's hard for people to to just say those things.
Speaker 4: And I say to them all the time, like there's
Speaker 4: a reason why we remain a minority. There's just a
Speaker 4: reason when you think about your approach just in the
Speaker 4: game of basketball, and you think about your approach in life,
Speaker 4: and you think about you know, I hear everything. I
Speaker 4: see a lot. I hear a lot, and we haven't
Speaker 4: learned a lot, right. And when you look at NBA
Speaker 4: teams today, what in nineteen ninety eight, I think the
Speaker 4: Bulls was value that two hundred and fifty million. If
Speaker 4: you look at teams today, they're north for four or
Speaker 4: five billion, dollars. You know, when you look at how
Speaker 4: the business has grown, look at you know, all the
Speaker 4: things you guys had to do and fight people had
Speaker 4: to fight before y'all, just the rules changing and all
Speaker 4: those things. And now when you look at players today,
Speaker 4: they're getting nine figures, right, and you're looking at it
Speaker 4: and you're saying, man, it's no telling what your career
Speaker 4: earnings would have been had you had that opportunity. I
Speaker 4: just feel like there's an importance for the guys today
Speaker 4: to understand that that journey, respect that journey, and then
Speaker 4: kind of make it easier on those coming. You know,
Speaker 4: my trailblaze is not really about me. The rich Paul Rue,
Speaker 4: me stepping up about that wasn't really about me.
Speaker 1: What do I need to.
Speaker 4: Why do I need to have a conversation about that?
Speaker 4: I'm already in position, but I knew what it was
Speaker 4: about those coming behind. I mean, you know that we
Speaker 4: always thought you had to have a law degree to
Speaker 4: be to be an agent. To come to find out
Speaker 4: you really don't, right, And the teams show us all
Speaker 4: the time the importance of infrastructure. That's why they have
Speaker 4: a front office, right the GM. He has a cap guy.
Speaker 4: I can pick up the phone, but they placed it
Speaker 4: upon us as if we need to know everything right,
Speaker 4: and it's just a form of discouragement. So I just think,
Speaker 4: you know, my mindset today is obviously is different than
Speaker 4: what it was yesterday and definitely ten twelve years ago.
Speaker 4: But I'm for all of us despite it. Don't matter
Speaker 4: what jersey you have or I don't even care about
Speaker 4: that type of stuff, or even if I represent you
Speaker 4: or not. It's just about doing things the right way
Speaker 4: most of the time that you can right. And I
Speaker 4: think ultimately, the way I look at it is it
Speaker 4: helps when you start to reach back. Right, when you
Speaker 4: when you create good habits and you build this foundation
Speaker 4: and you educate yourself and things like that, you start
Speaker 4: to make better decisions in all aspects of your life. Well,
Speaker 4: that trickles down, right, and then that's how we become
Speaker 4: a community. And then now your daughter is dating my
Speaker 4: son and they've had these life experiences and then they
Speaker 4: you know, and that's how it's supposed to go. But
Speaker 4: we'll never get there if we continue to look at
Speaker 4: all these mirrors in our house and were only looking
Speaker 4: at the beautification. There's no accountability coming through that reflection.
Speaker 4: And I don't care if your mirror is broke's, look
Speaker 4: in it. If that's the one that's giving off the
Speaker 4: reflection of accountability, then look in the broken. I'm fine
Speaker 4: with that at least once a week. But we don't
Speaker 4: do that to our guys. We don't do that to
Speaker 4: our athletes. And you know, a lot of times, being
Speaker 4: an agent is the industry to me was.
Speaker 1: You know, like.
Speaker 4: High level ego strokers. You know, for many years and
Speaker 4: a lot of guys came away from a career with nothing.
Speaker 4: I got no money or very little money. I have
Speaker 4: no education, I have no positioning. Right, I can't go
Speaker 4: back and work for somebody because along the way I
Speaker 4: did certain things and now I have this perception on me, right,
Speaker 4: And all the while the business is growing. Toront Lou
Speaker 4: today has made way more money as a coach than
Speaker 4: he ever made as a player. It's not even close.
Speaker 4: You get what I'm saying. Had we been able to
Speaker 4: know that, there have been a lot more guys positioning
Speaker 4: themselves to be coaches, right, it just makes sense. And
Speaker 4: I think that you know, we're just not totally making
Speaker 4: sense of it all because we get so called up
Speaker 4: into the other ship and what somebody else is doing. Right,
Speaker 4: this idea of it's about me. And even if you
Speaker 4: look at this shoe business today like it's totally changed, right,
Speaker 4: you look at every industry. When we were coming up,
Speaker 4: there was signature shoe guys. You can identify them. You
Speaker 4: can't identify them today, one or two guys probably, but
Speaker 4: they'll still sell you the importance of a signature shoe.
Speaker 4: But that's to feed the ego. Because unless you can
Speaker 4: build a business from a signature point of view, then
Speaker 4: why would I put my effort in that when ninety
Speaker 4: percent of people walking around today's focused on what comfort?
Speaker 4: That's just a fact, so you know, and there's a
Speaker 4: whole nother element to it. Now there's entertainers that's aligned
Speaker 4: with shoe brands that would never happen, you know when
Speaker 4: we were coming up. It's just that it's just different,
Speaker 4: and so we have to think different too. If and
Speaker 4: the person that's advising you can't just be the guy
Speaker 4: that gave you a market in advance and waiting on
Speaker 4: the next contract. That don't make sense to me, but
Speaker 4: that's what we continue to value because whatever. But you know,
Speaker 4: and it's part of the game. I get it, it's
Speaker 4: part of business. But you can't have it both ways.
Speaker 4: You can't want to limit something and then want it all.
Speaker 4: Like those two things don't work. And most guys going
Speaker 4: to make most of the money playing the game of basketball.
Speaker 4: And why would you want to do anything If I
Speaker 4: told you you could make six hundred million dollars playing
Speaker 4: the game of basketball, why would you want to do
Speaker 4: anything else? Right, don't bring me a deal. I don't care.
Speaker 4: But man, listen, I'm locked in. I'm focused. But that's
Speaker 4: easier said and said and done.
Speaker 3: Speaking of shoe brands, a businessman got his own shoe.
Speaker 3: Oh me, I forgot new balance. Yeah, I mean again,
Speaker 3: you know, rappers like you said that the doors have
Speaker 3: opened athletes, but a businessman to have his own shoe.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think that says a lot. But what
Speaker 3: does it mean to you?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 4: It meant a whole hell of a lot. You know,
Speaker 4: growing up as a kid, you think about that, and
Speaker 4: we just talked about it. But you know, for me,
Speaker 4: that was more so understanding the landscape. Understanding that Okay,
Speaker 4: if signature basketball shoes aren't selling and that's not the
Speaker 4: way today, then and artist can have a shoe. Then
Speaker 4: why couldn't the CEO have a shoe. It's the way
Speaker 4: I thought, because there's a market for that. In addition
Speaker 4: to everyone strives to be a CEO of their own
Speaker 4: in some shape, form or fashion, and so I was
Speaker 4: mostly just focused there number one. But the shoe I
Speaker 4: actually made for my shoe was a basketball shoot, the
Speaker 4: five to fifty. It's actually a low cut basketball shoe.
Speaker 4: James Worthy wore the six fifty when he played and
Speaker 4: was with New Balance, right, And so the idea behind
Speaker 4: the first one was just this idea of dreaming big
Speaker 4: and not being able to be discouraged about anything. And
Speaker 4: then the second one was forever Yours, and I was
Speaker 4: talking to the game and whatever game you want to
Speaker 4: talk to, right, because the game is the game. And
Speaker 4: I built the creative around that forever Yours idea of it.
Speaker 4: And you know, I reached out to Brent Faes and
Speaker 4: he did the record for me, and my son was
Speaker 4: in both of the commercials. But that that creation was
Speaker 4: kind of inspired by myself and also a young lady
Speaker 4: in my office named Micah, and then also the team
Speaker 4: that we work with New Balance, So collectively we came
Speaker 4: up with that creative, and I had the idea of
Speaker 4: the letter being on the basketball and then kind of
Speaker 4: meeting up at the end and things like that, and
Speaker 4: so you know, I've always had that creative I mean,
Speaker 4: people don't really know I've I've been a part a
Speaker 4: lot of the commercials and things like that from just
Speaker 4: the idea perspective behind the scenes, which was fine by me.
Speaker 4: But yeah, no, that was that was something that was
Speaker 4: that was big. And you know, I don't really celebrate
Speaker 4: a lot of things externally, but the way I look
Speaker 4: at it is, you know, just continuing to challenge myself
Speaker 4: and knock down down barriers per se, but for other people. Right,
Speaker 4: So you look at my relationship with New Balance has
Speaker 4: cultivated into Tyrese, Maxi, Zach Levine, the John T. Murray
Speaker 4: started with Darius Baisley and the and the Men now internship,
Speaker 4: now Darius Garland is there. You get what I'm saying,
Speaker 4: Chase Young and Will Anderson from a Clutch Athletics perspective, uh,
Speaker 4: and then having and built a whole nother brand within
Speaker 4: the realm of that, and having Clutch Athletics where I
Speaker 4: can I'm signing people from n I L and signing
Speaker 4: professional athletes things like that, and so just not limiting
Speaker 4: myself because again, being an agent is something I love
Speaker 4: to do and I want to wear that hat as
Speaker 4: long as I can for my guys. I have no
Speaker 4: interest in owning the team and things like that. That's
Speaker 4: not what I'm looking to do. First of all, I
Speaker 4: don't have enough money to own the team and on cap,
Speaker 4: so that ain't That's not where I'm looking. But you know,
Speaker 4: again opening the door and leaving it open right and
Speaker 4: still having my relationships at brands like Nike and my
Speaker 4: name's on the building at Nike, and being able to
Speaker 4: manage that aspect of it and just do business at
Speaker 4: a high level. I can walk at you bubble gum.
Speaker 4: So things don't you know, that don't matter to me.
Speaker 4: But business is business, right, And so I try to
Speaker 4: teach my guys to, you know, just to understand that
Speaker 4: and not be so much into you that you missed
Speaker 4: the education. You know, it's very important to continue to
Speaker 4: get the sap from the tree, and any one of
Speaker 4: y'all know y'all have to put Richard to a side
Speaker 4: and be like yo, rich you bugging man, or like
Speaker 4: I'm like okay, ma, you're right, Jackie, right, and we
Speaker 4: move on. But that's just a mutual respect amongst men.
Speaker 4: It has nothing to do with stature or finance or
Speaker 4: anything like that. And I think that's it's important for
Speaker 4: us to get back there because that keeps you on
Speaker 4: the straight and narrow.
Speaker 1: A lot of times.
Speaker 2: I hope Bro interrupt man, but I hope Bro, you're
Speaker 2: taking time when you at home to break your arm
Speaker 2: and patch yourself on the back because you know, I
Speaker 2: know where you come from.
Speaker 1: Any things you're doing, it's special, Bro.
Speaker 2: It's specially for our culture to see that, because I
Speaker 2: know it's times where you probably with Braun and there's
Speaker 2: people that's probably saying, Hey, Broun, but I want.
Speaker 1: To be rich, Paul. You know what I'm saying. That's
Speaker 1: what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: So just that alone, Bro, I salute you on that,
Speaker 2: because now we got kids saying I want to be
Speaker 2: an agent. I want to be rich, Paul, I can
Speaker 2: be rich, part I can be this, and you making
Speaker 2: them see that that can happen.
Speaker 3: Well, you're more likely to cut you off to attain
Speaker 3: what he's done.
Speaker 4: Then you know exactly, you know what you brought that
Speaker 4: point up, right? I struggled with the with the Sports
Speaker 4: Illustrated cover because you know, there was always this conditioning, like,
Speaker 4: you know, when you're representing guys, you gotta be careful,
Speaker 4: you gotta tiptoe. And you know other agents used that
Speaker 4: against me. He got his own shoe, like what Donna
Speaker 4: think about you? And he doing this and all these
Speaker 4: different things. But my guys they don't think like that.
Speaker 4: That's how I know you care about Yeah, my clients
Speaker 4: they don't think like that. That's how I know they
Speaker 4: the right guys for me. I can't focus on something else.
Speaker 4: But to your point with the Sports Illustrated cover, I
Speaker 4: really struggle, right, And I was sitting there, and I
Speaker 4: was sitting there, and you know what made me really
Speaker 4: embrace it the way I did was being an example, right,
Speaker 4: exactly what you said, both of you.
Speaker 1: You can.
Speaker 4: It's so hard to be one of y'all make it
Speaker 4: to the NBA win championships. Man, that ship is damn
Speaker 4: near impossible, right, And I know y'all make it look easy.
Speaker 4: Guys make it look easy, but it's not easy. It's
Speaker 4: a very very small number of guys that actually get drafted,
Speaker 4: actually make it past year two, actually make it you know,
Speaker 4: get a second big contract, actually go to the playoffs,
Speaker 4: actually go to play in a championship game, actually win.
Speaker 4: It's a very small group of people, but I was
Speaker 4: saying to myself, you can't have it both ways. Rich
Speaker 4: I had to hold myself accountable. You can't have it
Speaker 4: both ways. You can't sit here and try to be
Speaker 4: behind the scenes and be discreet and at the same
Speaker 4: time want for others to be better educated and have
Speaker 4: the confidence and have perspective and things like that. When
Speaker 4: you're sitting here with an opportunity to be a great
Speaker 4: example for them and you're choosing not to that Really,
Speaker 4: that's what was the game changer for me, and it
Speaker 4: caused me. You know, I had Instagram for five years
Speaker 4: when posts that ain't my thing. I never wanted my
Speaker 4: picture snap. That's not my thing. But I had to
Speaker 4: embrace it.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: My daughter was like, Dad, we don't read review Most
Speaker 4: people don't read their view they see Yeah. So you
Speaker 4: know it helped me, and it allowed me to embrace
Speaker 4: the Sports Illustrated because that's a big thing, like, you know,
Speaker 4: being on the cover and I remember looking at the
Speaker 4: Sports Illustrated all the time. So when I got that call.
Speaker 4: I was like, you know, but you condition to just
Speaker 4: when you read this book, it's gonna help you understand.
Speaker 4: I never really focus on the winds because of that
Speaker 4: time where somebody told you I'm on my way and
Speaker 4: it never came, you know, or that time you know
Speaker 4: you embracing You're bracing yourself for the let down so
Speaker 4: much that you just continue to push forward. And that's
Speaker 4: the trauma. Even at the level I've got to today,
Speaker 4: that's still the trauma that sits within you. Now what
Speaker 4: it's done for me, which just gave me this unbelievable
Speaker 4: drive to not sit into my my success placing. So
Speaker 4: I've turned into a positive. But think about that, like
Speaker 4: you know, most people be jumping for Joe. I haven't
Speaker 4: popped a bottle of wine or champagne or anything like that,
Speaker 4: just because it's just that there's a chapter in the
Speaker 4: book and where I talk about bearing down, and you're
Speaker 4: gonna like this, Jack, because I'm talking about my point
Speaker 4: is four on the dice, and you know you got
Speaker 4: to bear down. A guy got the last fifty dollars
Speaker 4: left and you didn't you didn't want the money. But
Speaker 4: you know, it's just like in the basketball game. You
Speaker 4: can be up twenty and trick a layup off or
Speaker 4: something like that, and then the team going to run.
Speaker 4: It's the same thing. Then it's exactly you know what
Speaker 4: I'm saying, So that that thing is within me that
Speaker 4: I just think, like, I don't know if it's another
Speaker 4: person in our industry that's had those experiences to position it,
Speaker 4: to position things that way, and you know, I just
Speaker 4: try to. I know I can't people within the company
Speaker 4: is not going to be that, but I try to
Speaker 4: make sure that the foundation of the company and its culture,
Speaker 4: you know, continues to have that because it's hard when
Speaker 4: you scale, like we have ninety plus staff members now
Speaker 4: and over two hundred clients. You know, we started with
Speaker 4: four clients and two people, you know, and so that's
Speaker 4: extremely hard to maintain that. And we've been able to
Speaker 4: maintain it. But you know, everybody's not gonna have the
Speaker 4: same care, and you know, it's just you know, your
Speaker 4: mom always said, you want something done like huge yourself,
Speaker 4: but you have to you know, trust people and mold people.
Speaker 4: And we've been able to done to do that. Fair
Speaker 4: who was my partner who I started with. You know,
Speaker 4: we've been able to do that Georgia here, she was
Speaker 4: the ninth. She was a ninth employee. Think about and
Speaker 4: now we look now, we'd be on zooms and we'd
Speaker 4: be like, what the hell?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 4: So that is a proud thing. And being able to
Speaker 4: give young people opportunity is the is the real give
Speaker 4: back for me, that's the real you know, passing out
Speaker 4: turkeys and things like that is great, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 4: But being able to give people opportunity and then allowing
Speaker 4: them to grow within is the ultimate for a movie.
Speaker 3: Yes, Draymond Green. Yeah, a brother of yours first and foremost,
Speaker 3: but also a client. The same thing that makes him
Speaker 3: great hurt him at times through this time. He's been
Speaker 3: going through it the last year and a half, two years.
Speaker 3: No secret, what type if you don't have to tell us, well,
Speaker 3: but what kind of back and forth you guys just
Speaker 3: to have about the bigger picture because you always see
Speaker 3: the bigger picture.
Speaker 4: Man, Draymond, I talk. That's one person. We talk every day,
Speaker 4: and our our face times and calls is real. Some
Speaker 4: day some days were talking not even about basketball. And
Speaker 4: you know, I only know one way and that's black
Speaker 4: and white. It's no gray with me because my Dad
Speaker 4: didn't give Gray. So when we have that conversation, we
Speaker 4: have in the real conversations, and you know, I hold
Speaker 4: him accountable on things, but he also holds himself accountable.
Speaker 4: And you know, when you're in the heat a moment,
Speaker 4: sometimes things get away from me. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: But I know who he is as a person. I
Speaker 4: know where it's heart, lives and things like that. I
Speaker 4: know who he is as a teammate.
Speaker 1: Every team want that, every team need that.
Speaker 2: A lot of teams that's looking down on that they
Speaker 2: wish they had that because y'all wouldn't suck so much
Speaker 2: if y'all had somebody that cared like that.
Speaker 1: The people don't understand.
Speaker 2: I ain't mean to cut you off, bro, but I
Speaker 2: we can relate because that's passion, that's caring about the game. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we make mistakes. Yeah, I want somebody to have my
Speaker 2: back regardless what's going on. Because I've been that person
Speaker 2: on the biggest scale eve in the game, so I
Speaker 2: understand it.
Speaker 1: I hate when people take it the wrong way.
Speaker 2: I love his passion and just like Greg Popa say,
Speaker 2: you're not w in the championship without a guy like
Speaker 2: dramrk gain without a guy like Ron just not happening.
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, I think I think you're spot on with that.
Speaker 4: I also, you know, but we also talk about the
Speaker 4: professional side of things because it's a different game now.
Speaker 4: It is it is, and and you know, there's there's
Speaker 4: a there's a place to take it, and there's an
Speaker 4: understanding of not.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: And I think Draymond's earned the right to get all
Speaker 4: the way up to that line. Yeah, yeah, exactly, He's
Speaker 4: earned that right, and so I don't think nobody would
Speaker 4: fall him for that. But when you go over it,
Speaker 4: because you are who you are, it's going to be
Speaker 4: it's going to be a brighter light on it.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: If you was a you know, and no offense to it,
Speaker 4: like a two way guy or something and you did that,
Speaker 4: obviously you're not gonna have a second chance and nobody's
Speaker 4: gonna care about it. But when you are four time champion,
Speaker 4: a Defensive Player of the Year, perennial All Star, first ballot,
Speaker 4: Hall of Famer, heart and soul of your team, and
Speaker 4: you're not seventy three and nine, it's gonna be a
Speaker 4: different story. And so we have that conversation. It's good
Speaker 4: to see him come out of it, you know, and
Speaker 4: and from a a from a mental place that he's
Speaker 4: that he's in and uh, but you know, it's a
Speaker 4: continuous process. That's something you got to work on all
Speaker 4: the time. None of us are perfect, We're just not.
Speaker 4: But I think when you have the ability, not just
Speaker 4: the ability, when you have the want first and then
Speaker 4: put in the effort to make change, none of us
Speaker 4: can also be We'll all be like, we're gonna support that.
Speaker 2: Right, And that's a big problem in our culture too.
Speaker 2: Somebody change, They look at it us, well, why are
Speaker 2: you changing?
Speaker 1: Changing?
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know what I have to change for the better.
Speaker 4: That's the only way to grow. You know.
Speaker 3: We have the opportunity to have de John Tay Murray
Speaker 3: on the show, and I was already a fan of it.
Speaker 3: Game and getting the chance to know the head he
Speaker 3: had on his shoulders and the story man.
Speaker 4: Experiences. Bro Let me tell you something, man, when I
Speaker 4: met the Johntay, the first day I met the Johntay,
Speaker 4: he signed wasn't We didn't have a power point, There
Speaker 4: was no game, make or gang. It was just a
Speaker 4: straight conversation. Monoi Mono. He has two uncles with him.
Speaker 1: And.
Speaker 4: You know, it was just it was just a feeling,
Speaker 4: you know, we were able to see out of the eye.
Speaker 4: And I told him, point Blake, I'm like, look, I
Speaker 4: can't I can't promise you anything, but I can promise
Speaker 4: you one thing. I'm gonna be there with you with
Speaker 4: the ups. I'm gonna be there with you with the downs,
Speaker 4: and we're gonna get better.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: I had my colleague with me, and you know, we
Speaker 4: just talked about life and I felt his pain, he
Speaker 4: felt mine, and he felt that the trust would be there.
Speaker 4: And when you think about just his career projected in
Speaker 4: the second round when we first then he moved up
Speaker 4: and was ten on the board, was supposed to go
Speaker 4: ten to Milwaukee, background stuff or whatnot. I'm telling the teams,
Speaker 4: I'm like, well, he can't help where you take him
Speaker 4: from the hospital to the whatever house you take him to.
Speaker 4: That's not on him. He can't decide which address he
Speaker 4: get dropped off to, right, and so he shouldn't be
Speaker 4: penalized for that. I've been with this kid for sixty days.
Speaker 4: He went to one club, donhing twice, none of and
Speaker 4: I'm not you know, I like to go out and
Speaker 4: have a good time. Not him, not him, just not him.
Speaker 4: He's just a baller, right, And so I'm like, I
Speaker 4: don't see what y'all see. But whatever. So when he
Speaker 4: gets drafted twenty nine to the Spurs, you know what
Speaker 4: I told him. I said to John Tay he was
Speaker 4: a lottery pick.
Speaker 1: Bro.
Speaker 4: He was like, man, batter this.
Speaker 1: I said this.
Speaker 4: Let me tell you, I've been through this already. I
Speaker 4: just went through this with Corey Joseph, same pick. Y'all say,
Speaker 4: y'all wearing the same number. I've been through this. Now,
Speaker 4: are you gonna go up and down in the G League? Yes,
Speaker 4: it's gonna seem like, excuse me, it's the end of
Speaker 4: the world. Yes, but I can guarantee you it's gonna
Speaker 4: put years on your career for the better. Starting off
Speaker 4: here where you're starting off at. It's gonna put years
Speaker 4: on your career by the end of the Western Conference Finals.
Speaker 4: He started in the Western Conference Finals. You get what
Speaker 4: I'm saying. And then gets hurt, still gets his contract,
Speaker 4: gets traded, gets another contract. When you think about it,
Speaker 4: and we talk all the time about it, and again
Speaker 4: like I'm not one of those guys that have to.
Speaker 4: I don't have to tiptoe around none of my guys.
Speaker 4: I don't have to walk on eggs shells. I don't
Speaker 4: have to. You know, it's nothing for us to talk
Speaker 4: about twenty four hours a day that that's not realistic.
Speaker 4: So you see these guys on the headphones, it's like, bro,
Speaker 4: I'm doing a thousand different things a day, and I
Speaker 4: know that's so like. We don't have to fake, that's
Speaker 4: just acting. Look, you get what I'm saying. If there's something,
Speaker 4: call me, I'll call you. Whatever the case may be, dinner, whatever,
Speaker 4: whatever it is. We manage it in the proper fashion.
Speaker 4: But it's just a bond, it really is. And if
Speaker 4: I tell you something like my guy's like, girl, if
Speaker 4: you tell me something, I know you've done, You've done
Speaker 4: your diligence on it. Just that simple. So I educate
Speaker 4: them and I'm not telling them what to do. I'm
Speaker 4: just educating them on what our options are and here's
Speaker 4: what I advise you to do and why. But ultimately
Speaker 4: you have to make the decision right. And in the
Speaker 4: Jonte's case, just this year, you know, we had an
Speaker 4: extension eligible. We could have played it all the way
Speaker 4: out or take the extension, et cetera. He has a
Speaker 4: different perspective on life and his positioning.
Speaker 1: So we did it.
Speaker 3: We did it.
Speaker 4: Intension don't matter to me, right, and but I just
Speaker 4: like to have the options right and so that's that's
Speaker 4: what we have. But the John Tay's John Kay is
Speaker 4: great man and just all my guys, man, you know,
Speaker 4: we we We've been blessed as a company. I've been
Speaker 4: blessed as an agent to represent some great guys. And
Speaker 4: I'm ana be there with you up and be there
Speaker 4: with you down right, you know, Miles's case, same thing.
Speaker 4: You know, Guys like Tyreese and Darius Garland, same thing.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: Just some of the younger guys, older guys you expected,
Speaker 4: right A d K cps Lebron's and Tray Bonds, Fred Van,
Speaker 4: those guys are like you know, but the younger guys
Speaker 4: trying to mold them, you know. Happy for a guy
Speaker 4: like Trey Lows, you know, like Trey Lows. You know,
Speaker 4: it's just sometimes in the NBA, it's just about finding.
Speaker 4: You have to stay in there to find a fit.
Speaker 4: You don't always get drafted to the fit, but you
Speaker 4: have to do the things necessary to stay professional, stay
Speaker 4: in the toe, find a fit, right. You know, we've
Speaker 4: seen many guys going to life. That's why I don't
Speaker 4: get so caught up on the top five or top ten.
Speaker 4: That don't mean anything. No, no, no, not at all.
Speaker 3: Obviously we're coming to the back end ofbron Steph KD. Yeah,
Speaker 3: who were some people you see this next run of
Speaker 3: this youth they can potentially it's a lot of work,
Speaker 3: but to be there somewhat as faces.
Speaker 4: You know, talent wise, there's a lot of talented players, right,
Speaker 4: there's a lot of talent. This is the most talent
Speaker 4: I think we've had in our league in a lot
Speaker 4: of time.
Speaker 1: But but.
Speaker 4: There's an aspect of understanding what it is to be
Speaker 4: a great partner and when you are trying to position
Speaker 4: yourself to be one of the faces, because I don't
Speaker 4: think there'll be one face. I think those days are over.
Speaker 4: But to be one of the faces of the league,
Speaker 4: there's a partnership that comes with that that you you
Speaker 4: have to understand. There's a reputation you have to uphold,
Speaker 4: there's a professionalism you have to uphold. There's a giving
Speaker 4: of your time that you have to carve out to
Speaker 4: do certain things to continue to move the game forward. Right,
Speaker 4: And so I think your production, yeah, and your production
Speaker 4: every night, and nobody don't cares. So you had thirty okay, great,
Speaker 4: you have thirty five. Okay, great you had forty.
Speaker 1: Great.
Speaker 4: That's expected of you, right, We expect that of you.
Speaker 4: And I think that today a lot of guys come
Speaker 4: in our league and they're talented, but they don't know
Speaker 4: how to play the game.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 4: And then in addition to that, they also don't don't
Speaker 4: know how to play the game within the game. You've
Speaker 4: been the best player on the team means you be
Speaker 4: the first one at the gym, not mean you be
Speaker 4: the last one to walk in, be late to the plane,
Speaker 4: all those things are no go when you're the best
Speaker 4: guy on the team. No, no, no, it works the
Speaker 4: actually it works the other way. You have to actually
Speaker 4: do more because the coach actually should be able to
Speaker 4: sit in the film room and talk through you, and
Speaker 4: you be okay with that. That's part of your responsibility,
Speaker 4: has to face the team because what's the sister of
Speaker 4: him talking to the ninth man on the bench that
Speaker 4: ain't gonna do nothing for the team. But if I
Speaker 4: can talk through you as the number one guy, then
Speaker 4: it's gonna already reprimand the room, like I don't have
Speaker 4: to say nothing at that point, right, So I think
Speaker 4: that's important. But it's a ton of it's definitely, it's
Speaker 4: definitely a ton of talent. I think, n I l
Speaker 4: it's kind of hurting the growth of the athlete and
Speaker 4: several aspects. I think it's good for our women's game
Speaker 4: for sure, because we haven't gotten that part right to
Speaker 4: where they can make substantial money. I think in football
Speaker 4: it's just become the wild wild West. And don't get
Speaker 4: me wrong, these stadiums are one hundred and ten hundred,
Speaker 4: five thousand, ninety thousand every Saturday, right, these guys should
Speaker 4: get something. There's no question about it. So I'm not
Speaker 4: you know, but there is a there used to be
Speaker 4: an aspect of resilience. So it's removing the resilience and
Speaker 4: there's a trade off. There's options for the lack thereof
Speaker 4: having to overcome something. I don't think there's a quick
Speaker 4: fix to either one. We need to find some type
Speaker 4: of balance because you need both. I want these guys
Speaker 4: to have an option, because you know, it's unfair to
Speaker 4: go in the kids' living room and say something and
Speaker 4: not mean it right. And in basketball we see this
Speaker 4: happen a lot. Guys go and commit to a school
Speaker 4: and they've told all the right things, and then when
Speaker 4: they get there, they're top five player coming in and
Speaker 4: by the time it's done because not because of something
Speaker 4: that they're doing, because these are young. These are kids,
Speaker 4: by the way, they have a lot of growing to do.
Speaker 4: There's nurturing that has to be done. In the college games,
Speaker 4: there's a continuous effort to want to educate them on
Speaker 4: how to play the game. And you want to get that,
Speaker 4: so you have to find a balance of well, am
Speaker 4: I gonna care about my wins or I'm gonna care
Speaker 4: about the win within right, there's a balance, right, And
Speaker 4: if we happen to it, which one you're gonna commit to?
Speaker 4: Because if you're gonna commit to your wins, and that's
Speaker 4: that's gonna let me know your coaching style right away.
Speaker 4: And it may not be the best place for me.
Speaker 4: But if you tell me this prior, there's one thing.
Speaker 4: But if you tell me, hey, you come here, I'm
Speaker 4: gonna make sure this is I'm gonna make sure that
Speaker 4: And then when you got me there, that's switch is up.
Speaker 4: That's tough for me. And then you can't don't say
Speaker 4: to me, oh, well, I'm helping you get better, because
Speaker 4: there's several ways to help somebody get better. You're picking
Speaker 4: the worst way to help me get better without even
Speaker 4: knowing how I learned. That's equivalent to my son being
Speaker 4: in school and you know the teacher teaching everybody the
Speaker 4: same way. Well we all learned differently, everybody, So that's
Speaker 4: not I don't really go for that. And so I
Speaker 4: think all that matters to the other thing is these
Speaker 4: kids are playing way too much basketball, way too much basketball.
Speaker 4: You don't need it. We don't need fifteen tournaments like
Speaker 4: you don't need it. I can tell a guy who
Speaker 4: has pro potential in two minutes like, we don't need that.
Speaker 4: But there's playing so many games, and it's just it's
Speaker 4: just it's it's why a lot of injuries are happening
Speaker 4: a lot earlier too, you know, because you don't need
Speaker 4: If I'm a top player, I'm not playing every tournament
Speaker 4: that you that you got on my schedule for what
Speaker 4: it's not going to help. Some of these guys are
Speaker 4: are been playing for the last three years They've been
Speaker 4: the same person for the last three years. It's not changing.
Speaker 4: Work on your development. Work on your development, not that
Speaker 4: too many games.
Speaker 1: I don't care what.
Speaker 3: I'm I mean, Yeah, I'm in the That's why I
Speaker 3: coach my kids. They're not playing on two or three
Speaker 3: different teams. We're not taking all these like it's it's
Speaker 3: a to me, it's a step process to get there.
Speaker 3: And even if you're lucky enough to be, you know,
Speaker 3: help having a father this in it, there's still no guarantee,
Speaker 3: but I definitely know the process it's going to take.
Speaker 3: Not playing all these games is not the step. It's
Speaker 3: gonna be beneficial. If you could represent one player in
Speaker 3: NBA history, who would that be?
Speaker 4: And why I said this already.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to hear this because I feel like
Speaker 3: he's program. Like I said, Rich to be honest with you, Bro,
Speaker 3: the reason why I really wanted this interview is to
Speaker 3: really learn, obviously before knowing about the book, learn more
Speaker 3: about you because I've always just been admired from Afar
Speaker 3: like that limit.
Speaker 4: I appreciate that. For me, it's Alan Iverson because what
Speaker 4: people don't understand is and Alan Iverson to me was
Speaker 4: culture before people even understood what culture.
Speaker 3: Was by far right ever since the word.
Speaker 4: And if you managed that particular person, basketball player business
Speaker 4: the right way, this landscape today looks a lot different.
Speaker 4: See if I'm only focused on who's gonna pass the
Speaker 4: most money and I don't have an understanding of what
Speaker 4: type of business I can build and why and with
Speaker 4: what brand and this brand and the right product, et cetera,
Speaker 4: and be able to build that over time, then I'm
Speaker 4: doing him a disservice because there was I don't care
Speaker 4: put them all up. Alan Irison is not even close
Speaker 4: because he had America no matter rural, urban, integrated. That
Speaker 4: don't exist. I mean it didn't exist then right in
Speaker 4: the way that it was people wearing corn rolls. I'm
Speaker 4: talking about every aspect of the way. Obviously everybody wanted
Speaker 4: to be like Mike, and Mike had the shoes.
Speaker 3: And he had the whole nine, but he was more
Speaker 3: relatable though.
Speaker 4: AI had everything. He had the cool, he had, the
Speaker 4: corn rolls, he had the game, he had, the nostalgia,
Speaker 4: he had, the boy. He had he had everything you
Speaker 4: could possibly imagine, from the mint to the floor with
Speaker 4: the Bentley, with the platinum. So that's the hip hop culture.
Speaker 4: Then he had the basketball culture. The kid that only
Speaker 4: wanted to play basketball, he had that culture. Then he
Speaker 4: somehow he had what would be perceived to be the
Speaker 4: pop s type of type of culture.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 4: And so to me, that is like the dynamic of
Speaker 4: that in America. I'm saying, the dynamic of that you
Speaker 4: just can't I don't know if you can actually put
Speaker 4: a price on it. And this is coming from me.
Speaker 4: I was with Bron since he was sixteen seventeen years
Speaker 4: of age. I know the things we've done right, I
Speaker 4: know the things we've done wrong. And I don't know
Speaker 4: if there's an athlete to build the business he's personally
Speaker 4: built right right, just as a basketball player, the rooms
Speaker 4: he can get in the business he's built all that,
Speaker 4: that person don't exist right now. There have been people
Speaker 4: to do well within their personal endeavors in terms of
Speaker 4: investment and things like that. We have a lot of
Speaker 4: smart guys around our league, and the access is different
Speaker 4: now than it was back then when we first came
Speaker 4: the league. But prior to us, it would be for me,
Speaker 4: it would be Alan Iverson because he just had so
Speaker 4: much range. You know, the girls, I we forgot about
Speaker 4: the girls.
Speaker 1: All aspect.
Speaker 3: I played with a lot of stars, Cobe, Steph kd Ai.
Speaker 3: I've never seen the love in every city on and
Speaker 3: off the court, like to this day. Bro.
Speaker 4: I was in Cleveland going to the games. I had
Speaker 4: a you know, back then you can go into uh
Speaker 4: Macy's and you can buy the quarter season, half a season.
Speaker 1: Whatever it was.
Speaker 4: So you know, I would I would go in and
Speaker 4: I would buy season tickets. You could buy him through
Speaker 4: like a Macy's or Dealers, whatever it was. You could
Speaker 4: buy him through that. You could buy season tickets there.
Speaker 4: And I had to have the Sixers game on a
Speaker 4: on the on my little gold package or whatever it
Speaker 4: was back then. And the Cavs wasn't that great, so
Speaker 4: most of the season is empty. But when AI came
Speaker 4: and play different, it was unbelievable. So you know, just
Speaker 4: having that and you know, I, you know, for me,
Speaker 4: I don't really you know, we're going back and forth
Speaker 4: about all this, the conversation to goat this and that whatever.
Speaker 4: But it would be AI for me just because of
Speaker 4: the business. I know, I would have been able to
Speaker 4: build and me knowing the person of AI, he would
Speaker 4: have listened and oh man, it would have been knowing
Speaker 4: what I know and was able to learn. Oh my god. Yeah,
Speaker 4: just different, just a different, like you can't you can't
Speaker 4: have that today because the wild factor is gone. Social
Speaker 4: media has removed the wild factor. But so you know,
Speaker 4: the the opportunity is a lot different. Right to be
Speaker 4: able to compound something is a lot different.
Speaker 3: How many more years you think Brown got shu?
Speaker 4: You know what it changes?
Speaker 1: Man?
Speaker 4: I don't know. I don't know. I mean, honestly, I don't.
Speaker 3: I mean I think you being someone that's close and
Speaker 3: knowing him the way you do, the way you see
Speaker 3: his body moved to say the things he has to
Speaker 3: go through mentally, I was an older player, like what
Speaker 3: is I think?
Speaker 4: Body wise?
Speaker 1: Five? Yeah, thank you I said four, but five.
Speaker 4: Yeah its mind yeah, mind wise yeah, no, the understanding
Speaker 4: how to play the game mind wise forever like whatever, yeah,
Speaker 4: mind wise as it pertains to frustration or yeah, and
Speaker 4: or just like man, I have had enough missing time
Speaker 4: with his family, his wife and just being you know,
Speaker 4: because they've been they've been unbelievable. They've been, you know,
Speaker 4: unbelievable once. Yeah, support system. At some point they got
Speaker 4: to be about them, You got to be about them.
Speaker 4: And I think from that perspective, maybe two to three,
Speaker 4: you know, from that perspective, and I think, you know, ultimately,
Speaker 4: like I said, we go through all these things about
Speaker 4: who the gold is and I don't want to get
Speaker 4: into that because I just you know, I've stated in
Speaker 4: my opinion, and we all got our opinions. I think
Speaker 4: every air gonna have their opinion. Who played against who
Speaker 4: gonna have an opinion and all of that. But I
Speaker 4: think that just appreciating the guys, appreciating Lebron, appreciating Kevin Durant,
Speaker 4: appreciating Steph Curry, like appreciating these guys because for me,
Speaker 4: seeing a guy like Steph at ford Field in the
Speaker 4: NCAA tournament to being there, you know, I had Johnny
Speaker 4: Flint in that draft when they came out before and yeah,
Speaker 4: and seeing you know, everything that he's been able to do.
Speaker 4: Just understanding how Kevin just he just loves to get
Speaker 4: He is just a pure basketball player and we see
Speaker 4: what that gets you. I don't even know when he's
Speaker 4: gonna stop playing, maybe fifty five years.
Speaker 3: He just always he just loved to hoop.
Speaker 4: But just the appreciation, because I think when you in
Speaker 4: the eye of the tornado you know, you tend to
Speaker 4: not not really understand what's going on around you so
Speaker 4: so much. And so I've seen what I've been a
Speaker 4: part of. What I mean, where you came in the
Speaker 4: league two thousand and you was too, so your rookie year. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I was a year in between. So I've been a
Speaker 4: part of. I was at MJ's last game, right.
Speaker 1: And just.
Speaker 4: Yeah champions, Yeah, yeah, that was two thousand and three,
Speaker 4: being at All Star was in Atlanta that year and
Speaker 4: I think they they last game was against the Sixers day.
Speaker 4: But just being a part of seeing, you know, all
Speaker 4: those different generations of ball players, you know, like I
Speaker 4: have a Kobe gave me the last jersey he wore
Speaker 4: in Cleveland. He signed it to me and he wasn't
Speaker 4: given nobody. But I had a relationship with with with
Speaker 4: Cod from that perspective, and and just you know, just
Speaker 4: like you said, Ai and t Mac and and just
Speaker 4: being a tim and you know y'all team y'all had
Speaker 4: in San Antonio. Just being a historian of the game,
Speaker 4: even guys before that, the Rod Stricklands, the Abdul Roight Oofs,
Speaker 4: and the Fern Flemings and the you know, and just
Speaker 4: you know, Ricky Reggie and and just all the guys
Speaker 4: that Ricky Pierce and all these different guys that I
Speaker 4: remember just watching those Cavaliers teams that we had when
Speaker 4: they was good. And I played against Damien Wilkins when
Speaker 4: Gerald played for the for the Cavs. Grig and I
Speaker 4: was at the Soling Cage Classic. You might have played
Speaker 4: in Soling Cage Classic. Did you play in Solar Cage
Speaker 4: ca So I watched about I watched. I was at
Speaker 4: the game when Garnett was on the Michigan All Stars.
Speaker 4: It was Garnett, it was I think it was at
Speaker 4: that point it was Dane Fife, not Duke. It was
Speaker 4: dang Fife, Brandon Hughes. They had a squad and they
Speaker 4: played against I want to say they played against I
Speaker 4: don't know if it was earl in them, but they
Speaker 4: played against Stringer Michigan All Stars. I think more Taylor
Speaker 4: was on that team. Taylor Track might have been on it.
Speaker 4: I gave that tape to Lebron to watch because he
Speaker 4: was always talking about teams. But I was at that
Speaker 4: game and that game was back then. I think seniors
Speaker 4: could actually play au back then. And Garnett hadn't chosen
Speaker 4: to come out yet. And I remember going to the
Speaker 4: bathroom and I was I mean, Tarkanian was the every
Speaker 4: d one coach was there and I was sitting under
Speaker 4: the basket and I had these up tempos around my
Speaker 4: neck and he was in the layup line and kg
Speaker 4: he landed, he and he looked. He was like, damn, bro,
Speaker 4: what was them? And I was just told him, like
Speaker 4: what because we had just played in the small all
Speaker 4: their gyms. So we just walked over and it was
Speaker 4: standing room only, so we had to sit up under
Speaker 4: the basket, but just going all the way and then
Speaker 4: and I think the draft was in May or June,
Speaker 4: whatever it was, and for him to be like, damn,
Speaker 4: we just got drafted five. It was just you know,
Speaker 4: just being a history of the game, like you know,
Speaker 4: for me, basketball is me. It's just my life. So
Speaker 4: that's what makes me really really love it. And I
Speaker 4: watched even like like right now, I talk to my
Speaker 4: guys about closing out improperly and you know things today. Yeah,
Speaker 4: you sat and talking, yeah.
Speaker 3: And real strategy set at that game.
Speaker 1: It was really back and forth. I loved it.
Speaker 3: Obviously, we don't have.
Speaker 1: A ton of time with you.
Speaker 3: So I'm gonna keep pushing it forward. I'm gonna give
Speaker 3: you a list of people who are instrument in your life,
Speaker 3: and you just give me a few words on them.
Speaker 4: Y'all did y'all research?
Speaker 3: First of all, Kevin Warren, the Chicago Bears president.
Speaker 4: Love Kevin Warren Man. You know, Kevin Warren and I
Speaker 4: have grown to have an unbelievable relationship mentor and towarded me.
Speaker 3: You know, Jimmy I.
Speaker 4: Extreme supporter of me, always been someone who you know,
Speaker 4: just continue to support and push me and want want
Speaker 4: to see.
Speaker 1: Me do well.
Speaker 4: It's weird, right because they group us all together, but
Speaker 4: then you have your individual We all have our individual relationships.
Speaker 4: A lot of them overlap with the same people and
Speaker 4: things of that nature. But you have your own relationship
Speaker 4: with certain people. But Jimmy just has always been extremely supportive.
Speaker 4: I'm not as close to but I did get to
Speaker 4: spend some time with him and learned a lot in
Speaker 4: a short time. We spent four days in two thousand
Speaker 4: and six with Warren Omaha early yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: He gave me a monopoly board that was a Berkshire
Speaker 4: had the Way addition that had all the companies that
Speaker 4: he owned on it. So that was pretty fly. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: jay Z brother. You know again, jan I is somebody
Speaker 4: who constantly speak you know, just the other day he
Speaker 4: told me like, you know, just you know how much
Speaker 4: he cared about me and love me. You know, we
Speaker 4: talk like that. And so when people think they see
Speaker 4: rock Nation Sports and Clutch Sports, like we're not. We compete,
Speaker 4: but we're not in competition, you know, for everybody out here, bro,
Speaker 4: we're not in competition. And so even with this book,
Speaker 4: like I was down the road about to do that
Speaker 4: book with a totally different you know, publishing company, and
Speaker 4: and I just happened to see a tweet about rock
Speaker 4: Lit and I called Jay. I'm like, I texted him.
Speaker 4: I was like, yo, call me.
Speaker 1: So he called me.
Speaker 4: I was like, are you doing this book publishing thing?
Speaker 4: He's like yeah. I was like, well I got this.
Speaker 4: I got my book coming out.
Speaker 3: He was like really.
Speaker 1: I was like yeah.
Speaker 4: I'm like, look, I'm on the one yard line with
Speaker 4: this deal. And I said, obviously I'll get an opportunity,
Speaker 4: but you got to be able to match my deal.
Speaker 4: He was like, give me one minute, let me. He
Speaker 4: hung up, call me right back. He was like done,
Speaker 4: you know, But that's how we treat each other first man,
Speaker 4: you know, like you know, in our industry, it's always
Speaker 4: just bullsh it's different and most people, most people are
Speaker 4: working for free. But that's not how you treat each other,
Speaker 4: you know what I'm saying. And so that was just
Speaker 4: another example of like it's you know, it's business. I
Speaker 4: want to do right by you and relationship. Yeah, you
Speaker 4: didn't have to, by the way, you didn't have to
Speaker 4: call me, even though he's jay Z. I didn't have
Speaker 4: to call him. You know, I could have done it
Speaker 4: somewhere else, but I had I didn't want to. I
Speaker 4: wouldn't see that and then still continue forward. You get
Speaker 4: what I'm saying, Like, we just don't treat each other
Speaker 4: like that. And so brother, Oprah, Oprah again, someone I've
Speaker 4: you know, been been able to develop a relationship, you know,
Speaker 4: throughout the years. And obviously what she's been able to
Speaker 4: do just has been incredible, right from watching I used
Speaker 4: to watch Women on Bruce's Place with my with my grandmother,
Speaker 4: right and you know, color purple and things like that,
Speaker 4: and so you know, just touch points people, you know.
Speaker 4: But she's been great for me and just in terms
Speaker 4: of just dialogue. We communicate here and there. I check
Speaker 4: up on it here and there, and and you know,
Speaker 4: she check up on me here and there.
Speaker 3: Father, CEO, businessman, agent, partner, How email us life, fatherhood
Speaker 3: and business. That's a good question figuring that out.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but no, but prior to that, but prior to that,
Speaker 4: I want to say, I want to say, you know,
Speaker 4: but Randy Mavin Lebron brothers to me also, right, And
Speaker 4: I think I think, you know, are the biggest thing
Speaker 4: that we did was support each other, and that's rare.
Speaker 4: I think oftentimes people try to understand how do we
Speaker 4: all get here? And Mad built the mull time one
Speaker 4: hundred min dollar of business. I did the same thing.
Speaker 4: And you know, Randy doesn't always get the you know,
Speaker 4: the shine, but it's very hard for us to be
Speaker 4: us without him, So we do everything. Yeah, And so
Speaker 4: I think that we didn't have this infighting and we
Speaker 4: didn't have this you know ego per se. Now you know,
Speaker 4: you have your debates and you have your your competitiveness. Yeah,
Speaker 4: but if there was ever a situation, we can sit
Speaker 4: down and have a conversation about it. Because the ain't
Speaker 4: no road smooth. But you know, those guys continue to
Speaker 4: be a huge support to me. And again we hold
Speaker 4: each other accountabley and we also support each other. You know,
Speaker 4: we've done our you know, I don't do everything they do.
Speaker 4: They don't do everything I do, but we support each other.
Speaker 4: And so I think for those out there that everything
Speaker 4: we've done is what people want to duplicate today.
Speaker 1: That's right, y'alla only wants to get it right, to
Speaker 1: be honest, bro.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And there's a reason why we got it right now.
Speaker 4: First of all, you know, it's gonna be very hard
Speaker 4: to win the Kentucky Derby on a pony r just question,
Speaker 4: and you have to realize that, and they have to
Speaker 4: realize that. Second of all, the respect for each other
Speaker 4: to stay there, Yeah, it just has to be there.
Speaker 4: And for the people that's not the athlete, you have
Speaker 4: to be realistic and what value you actually bring to
Speaker 4: the table and define and start in that role because
Speaker 4: ain't nobody getting rich tomorrow. It ain't gonna happen and
Speaker 4: probably ain't gonna happen just in general. And it's not
Speaker 4: the athletes and I said this before, it's not the athletes.
Speaker 4: They're not obligated for you to be successful that's not
Speaker 4: how it works, right, because they're only single young men.
Speaker 1: For so long.
Speaker 4: Once they have a family, everything else is out the window.
Speaker 4: So spend that time trying to position yourself to where
Speaker 4: you always have a value to them, and then you
Speaker 4: also have value away from them. Right, I built something.
Speaker 4: Lebron retired tomorrow. Great, Now you can leave my pre
Speaker 4: draft camp and be bad. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: Because most people think, oh, Lebron retired tomorrow is over
Speaker 4: for you, blah blah blah. You hear what the what
Speaker 4: the nay sayers say, But no, I look at it
Speaker 4: the total opposite way, right, because you know there's a
Speaker 4: reluctance because of right, he's just that big. But I
Speaker 4: think it's important to stress that because I've seen you
Speaker 4: guys talk about it before, and I want to see
Speaker 4: guys do things. But don't you find it funny that
Speaker 4: we've all been successful and we actually made it right,
Speaker 4: We actually was around somebody that played a sport and
Speaker 4: built businesses and did things. And you know, my phone
Speaker 4: don't ring for help, My phone don't even ring for
Speaker 4: questions because of the I could do it myself. See
Speaker 4: what I'm saying, And and or they fall victim too,
Speaker 4: because this has happened. It just happened not too long ago.
Speaker 4: They fall victim to. Oh well, you don't have to
Speaker 4: be aligned with them to be like them or be
Speaker 4: successful like them. You could do that with us. We
Speaker 4: can make you this. And so in your mind, that's
Speaker 4: your table at live. That's this table that live and
Speaker 4: y'all showing how many bottles y'all got, that's what the type,
Speaker 4: that's how they plan, y'all. We don't do that. I
Speaker 4: don't even buy bottles. I buy art. You know, you
Speaker 4: know what I'm saying. But that's the that's the thing.
Speaker 3: And so.
Speaker 4: I think it's important to change that narrative, like no
Speaker 4: lean in you know, whether you come with me as
Speaker 4: from a representation or not, who cares about that, right?
Speaker 4: But if I know where the land mines are and
Speaker 4: I can tell you where they are not to step on. Yeah,
Speaker 4: you'd rather just blow your leg off for the sake
Speaker 4: of doing it. So, but then and then also my siblings,
Speaker 4: who are my family that's really supportive of me, like
Speaker 4: I and my kids, I couldn't be So to answer
Speaker 4: your balance question, I've matured, man, you know, I've I've
Speaker 4: matured over time. You know, I was a kid that
Speaker 4: had kids. I was a kid just trying to find
Speaker 4: my way in terms of my experiences that but but
Speaker 4: but then on the flip side, my life experiences, I
Speaker 4: was an adult, and so I had to balance those
Speaker 4: two things because I came from a totally different world
Speaker 4: and certain things I didn't understand because I only knew
Speaker 4: one way and that's the stand on it, you know,
Speaker 4: And so I had to figure out how to balance
Speaker 4: that and and and then also mature. I had to
Speaker 4: mature as a leader in my space, as an executive.
Speaker 4: And so today I you know, my kids definitely come first,
Speaker 4: and I've I've really enjoyed being a father, and you know,
Speaker 4: that's that's been great. But then you know the obviously,
Speaker 4: but the work don't stop. You know, I was up
Speaker 4: at three thirty this morning creating. You know, the work
Speaker 4: don't stop for me. And then you know, just continue
Speaker 4: to evolve. You know, like I said, I don't put
Speaker 4: a limit on myself. Things come about. You know, this
Speaker 4: last year was an unbelievable year. I know every year
Speaker 4: is not the same, but ultimately I just try to
Speaker 4: get better, just try to get better. You know, and
Speaker 4: they don't have anything to do with finance. I just
Speaker 4: try to better habits, you know, better work ethic, continue
Speaker 4: to strengthen my drive and perspective on things. And I
Speaker 4: hold myself accountable so people don't have to hold me accountable.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna hold myself accountable.
Speaker 3: Very key, quick hitters. Last few questions. First thing to
Speaker 3: come to mind. Your favorite song and your fiances put
Speaker 3: you on the spot.
Speaker 4: Hold On is my favorite song. Hold On is my
Speaker 4: favorite song off of off of her album this year, thirty. Yeah,
Speaker 4: hold On. It was a couple of years ago, but the.
Speaker 1: Album soundtrack to Your Life. Pick three songs.
Speaker 4: Lucky Me is definitely one. Jesus love Lionel diamonds up
Speaker 4: against that would.
Speaker 1: No? I love that. Be able to pull off the baby,
Speaker 1: you know? I love that one I.
Speaker 4: Got, I got some other ones off that I was
Speaker 4: thinking I was all over. I was, I was.
Speaker 1: That was perfect.
Speaker 3: Stuck on the Island. Three shows or movies in rotation.
Speaker 4: Godfather one and two, THAT'ST one. I gotta have Martin
Speaker 4: Martin and the Wire.
Speaker 3: Martin in the Wire, Yeah, first series, the TV.
Speaker 4: Show in the movie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the first thing you do in the morning. Last
Speaker 1: thing you do at night.
Speaker 4: First thing I do in the morning is well after praying.
Speaker 1: Yes, it is the first thing you do. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so praying will be the first thing. Yeah, last thing
Speaker 1: or that pray? Okay, find the same way, yeah, peaceful.
Speaker 2: If you could see one guests on all the smoke,
Speaker 2: who would it be? You said a couple of names,
Speaker 2: but you know we need so if you can see
Speaker 2: one guess on all the smoke, who would it be?
Speaker 3: But got to help us get that guest.
Speaker 1: You got to help us get.
Speaker 4: Well when we start. I think y'all have a good
Speaker 4: show with l J just because the basketball just you
Speaker 4: compete against y'all, bro, we all.
Speaker 1: Have got bro. Just say it. He's one of the
Speaker 1: best to ever played.
Speaker 2: We would be honest to have Yeah, we played against
Speaker 2: him and all that ship, Bro, but we are fans
Speaker 2: of this nigga.
Speaker 1: Dog.
Speaker 4: Just say that.
Speaker 2: I'm saying what you said. You said some other ship.
Speaker 2: Just we are saying, Bro, we would love to have
Speaker 2: you on our damn show. Please, dog, straight up, That's
Speaker 2: just what it is.
Speaker 1: I was saying that we ain't being humble about asking.
Speaker 4: Y'all played against each other, so I know it'd be
Speaker 4: a good show. Yeah, y'all had some some Yeah, I'm
Speaker 4: like that.
Speaker 1: Is what we say on the show.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think LJ would be a good one, but
Speaker 4: I'm not gonna use him as my one. I don't know, y'all. Man,
Speaker 4: y'all interview so many people. Even that's a tough one.
Speaker 1: You said a few names.
Speaker 4: I was like, it depends on what the conversation was about.
Speaker 4: But like for me, like I talked to Lil Wayne
Speaker 4: a lot now, like going back and forth, and I'll
Speaker 4: be sending them old records of like he got this
Speaker 4: song called after World on the Block is hot, just
Speaker 4: just going back to my childhood when we was young
Speaker 4: out there. Just listen to that. I'll be sending them
Speaker 4: old stuff all the time. But just about you know,
Speaker 4: the longevity, right, Just a lot of guys don't understand
Speaker 4: the importance of how to stay relevant and how to
Speaker 4: stay a star and involve and and continue to you know,
Speaker 4: reinvent yourself.
Speaker 1: Right. And so.
Speaker 4: I don't have one name in particular, but somebody somebody
Speaker 4: in that position, right, because I think.
Speaker 3: We just had Snoop yesterday.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean probably one probably the most recognizable rap
Speaker 4: artist you know ever you know, and just someone who
Speaker 4: again talk about reinveying yourself and just doing.
Speaker 1: It all him and Hole do it every three years.
Speaker 4: I think those I think those things are are important.
Speaker 4: I mean just those shows. I like to watch those
Speaker 4: shows where I can where I can learn learn something.
Speaker 3: Yeah, rich Man, we appreciate your We know you're very
Speaker 3: busy man, but just also let you know, bro, like flowers,
Speaker 3: we give you your flower.
Speaker 4: I appreciate see what you people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, people got to see people got to see it
Speaker 3: to believe it, and you made a lot of little
Speaker 3: boys and girls see that like, hey, that is a
Speaker 3: possibility now man, we thank you for that. Like Jackson,
Speaker 3: it's not just for it's more about everyone.
Speaker 4: And that's but yeah, I feel the love though, I
Speaker 4: feel and I try to give everybody at at least
Speaker 4: five seconds, ten seconds, you know, a minute of my
Speaker 4: time if I can, because you just never know what
Speaker 4: it does to that person's life, you know, So that's
Speaker 4: to me that that's that's that's important.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no doubt Well, thank you man. That's a wrap.
Speaker 1: Rich Paul.
Speaker 3: All the smoke you can catch us on all the
Speaker 3: Smoke productions and our new deal with Draft Kids and
Speaker 3: that oh, congratulations yeah,