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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: In the last days, a major update in the case

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Speaker 2: of a wealthy socialite Rebecca Grossman who mows down two

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Speaker 2: little boys wild drunk. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us. That's right, the parents

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Speaker 2: of two little boys mowed down by a wealthy socialite

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Speaker 2: Rebecca Grossman make a major move in court. If you'll recall,

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Speaker 2: Rebecca Grossman, married with all sorts of high society connections,

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Speaker 2: is having a booze fell lunched with her boyfriend before

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Speaker 2: she mows down two little boys reportedly drag racing in

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Speaker 2: the street. In the last days, the parents filed a

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Speaker 2: multi million dollar lawsuit against Grossman.

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Speaker 1: What happened?

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Speaker 2: Two little boys dead, ages eight and eleven, while this

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Speaker 2: plastic surgeon's socialite.

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Speaker 1: Wife is drag racing.

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Speaker 2: On the open road after a boozy lunch with her lover.

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Speaker 2: Uh uh no, let me just take these words in

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Speaker 2: fitted together.

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Speaker 1: In one sentence.

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Speaker 2: A plastic surgeon, socialite wife mows down two little boys.

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Speaker 1: So many questions, Let's start it off. Listen.

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Speaker 3: Just after seven pm on a September evening, Jacob and

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Speaker 3: Mark Iskander, their siblings and parents, go for an evening

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Speaker 3: stroll to a nearby lake. The boys enjoy ruller bleeding

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Speaker 3: and skateboarding. The six member family is heading home, crossing

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Speaker 3: in a crosswalk at a three way intersection when mother

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Speaker 3: Nancy heard a speeding car barreling their way. The mom

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Speaker 3: says her husband and daughter were further away from the street.

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Speaker 3: She tries to signal to the two su heading their

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Speaker 3: way to slow down. She tried to pull the children back,

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Speaker 3: only managing to grab one of them, a five year old,

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Speaker 3: and dive out of the way. Jacob and Mark, who

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Speaker 3: are farther out in the crosswalk, are hit. Mark Iskinder

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Speaker 3: dies at the scene. Jacob dies later at the hospital.

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Speaker 3: According to police, Mark was thrown two hundred and fifty

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Speaker 3: four feet.

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Speaker 1: Two hundred and fifty four feet.

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Speaker 2: I've got an all star panel joining me, but first

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Speaker 2: I want to go to private investigator. Former Federal Task

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Speaker 2: Force officer for the USDJ Department of Justice with the

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Speaker 2: DEA in the Miami Field Division. No lack of business

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Speaker 2: in Miami. Jade, former homicide investigator. You can find him

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Speaker 2: at Crispininvestigations dot com. Robert Crispin, have you ever first

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Speaker 2: of all two hundred and fifty four feet. A child

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Speaker 2: is thrown through the air two hundred and fifty four feet. Wait, okay,

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Speaker 2: now I'm a lawyer, I'm not a sports broadcaster. But

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Speaker 2: I was a cheerleader only because I didn't make the

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Speaker 2: basketball team. One girl got cut me, so I became

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Speaker 2: a cheerleader. Isn't a football field one hundred yards?

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Speaker 1: Okay? That's three hundred feet okay.

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Speaker 2: As you can tell by my stilted questions, they did

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Speaker 2: not teach me that in law school. So this child

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Speaker 2: is thrown nearly the length of a football field.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, not know.

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Speaker 5: Not uncommon for the pedestrian to be thrown a quite

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Speaker 5: of a distance. This particular case, if you look at

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Speaker 5: the crash impact on the Mercedes, it's pretty much a

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Speaker 5: dead center shit.

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Speaker 2: Robert Crispin, I appreciate all of your knowledge, but that

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Speaker 2: was a yes no. This little child was thrown nearly

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Speaker 2: the length of a football field.

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Speaker 5: He was, and that's a long way.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: Another quick question, This is a yes no too, Robert Crispin.

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Speaker 2: Before you, you know, lay all your knowledge on me.

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Speaker 2: Robert Crispin, have you ever been out for a walk

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Speaker 2: or a jog, maybe with your family and somebody speaks

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Speaker 2: by and you try to say slow down or you

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Speaker 2: gesticulate towards them. Has that ever happened to you?

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Speaker 5: Of course, I think it's happened to everybody.

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Speaker 1: Okay, did they stop? Did they slow down? Not at all?

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Speaker 4: They're oblivion, not at all.

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Speaker 1: In fact, they speed off.

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Speaker 2: I tried to take the picture of a speeding car

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Speaker 2: the other day. That's sped by Lucy and me as

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Speaker 2: we were walking. As soon as I held my phone up,

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Speaker 2: it scratched off crispin. So the mom. Can you imagine,

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Speaker 2: There's all the children. Let's see, there's Mark eleven, Jacob eight,

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Speaker 2: the parents are there, Kaem and Nancy, the brother Zachary

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Speaker 2: who's just five, the husband. They're all out for an

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Speaker 2: e stroll at a lake I don't think too far

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Speaker 2: from their home. And this socialite married to a plastic surgeon,

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Speaker 2: just stinking of money, comes flying by and you can

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Speaker 2: hear the car first speeding, because I can hear it

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Speaker 2: when I'm with the.

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Speaker 1: Twins, I'm like, get off the roads, get over.

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Speaker 2: I hear a car coming, and sure enough, here it comes,

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Speaker 2: barreling down. The mom heard it first and immediately starts

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Speaker 2: trying to get everybody, and she couldn't get the two

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Speaker 2: little boys fast enough. You think I've got those facts right,

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Speaker 2: Robert Crispin.

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Speaker 5: Listen, your facts are right. And I've you know, with

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Speaker 5: my own son, when I'm out walking with him, he

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Speaker 5: gets so far away and someone comes speeding by. I

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Speaker 5: cannot imagine of how close she was to just potentially

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Speaker 5: grabbing them and pulling them back, and not being there

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Speaker 5: and watching that impact had to be horrific, horrific.

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Speaker 2: And you know, the other little brother, Zachary's five, He

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Speaker 2: remembers this crystal clear.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let me get back to the facts. Listen.

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Speaker 6: Nancy Eskander tells police that two SUVs were speeding toward

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Speaker 6: her family and were quote zigzagging with each other as

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Speaker 6: if they were playing or racing. She says the drivers

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Speaker 6: didn't stop at the intersection, not even when the eleven

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Speaker 6: year old was on the hood of the car. She

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Speaker 6: describes how eight year old Jacob was lying near the curb,

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Speaker 6: mark was in the road with a visibly broken arm

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Speaker 6: and quote blood coming out of his mouth. She says

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Speaker 6: her five year old watched paramedics perform CPR on his brother.

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Speaker 6: When asked if she could see which driver or suv

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Speaker 6: struck her son. Iscander said no, she was diving out

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Speaker 6: of the way, pulling her five year old along.

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Speaker 2: As I mentioned, with me an all star panel to

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Speaker 2: make sense of what we know right now.

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Speaker 1: But now I'm going to go to.

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Speaker 2: Aimon Murphy joining us, investigative reporter writer for the Acorn Newspapers.

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Speaker 1: Amen, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: Explain to me what facts I've left out so far

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Speaker 2: to the point where CPR is being given by the EMTs.

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Speaker 4: Well, Nancy, you basically you've got it right. It was

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Speaker 4: evening a September twenty ninth, twenty twenty. The family of

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Speaker 4: the Eskander family were out for a walk. You know,

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Speaker 4: this is during COVID, so they're getting out getting some air.

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Speaker 4: Nancy as Gander is crossing the road. It's called Tranfo

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Speaker 4: Canyon Road in Westlake Village. It runs right along the lake.

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Speaker 4: She's crossing towards the lake with her three boys. She's

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Speaker 4: got the youngest boy right at her hip and they're

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Speaker 4: in front. The two older boys are behind her. That's

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Speaker 4: Mark and Jacob. Her husband and their baby daughter are

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Speaker 4: continue walking up the road. They don't cross, so there's

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Speaker 4: some distance away Nancy as gander hears the roars of

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Speaker 4: two engines, she says, and she turns, and she sees

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Speaker 4: these SUVs coming. She's able to jump out of the

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Speaker 4: way of the first one, that's a black SUV with

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Speaker 4: her youngest son, but then behind her the second car,

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Speaker 4: which is a white Mercedes Suv, hits the other two boys,

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Speaker 4: and that's the one driven by Rebecca Grossman.

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Speaker 7: Authorities say, okay, whoa, whoa, whoa Wait wait, wait, wait

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Speaker 7: a minute, Aimon Murphy first of all, Rebecca Grossman, Okay, well,

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Speaker 7: she's beautiful number one, but sheet is married to a

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Speaker 7: plastic surgeon.

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Speaker 2: So I don't know how much of that is God given,

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Speaker 2: not judging, don't care. But you know, you normally think

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Speaker 2: of a lady of her standing, her age.

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Speaker 1: She's a grown woman.

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Speaker 2: I don't really picture her zig zagging at what eighty

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Speaker 2: plus miles an hour and residential area zig zagging like

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Speaker 2: I'm fast and furious. You've seen that, right, I've seen

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Speaker 2: all of them with my son. Okay, actually I liked them,

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Speaker 2: so I can't really blame him. Amen, have you ever

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Speaker 2: seen that? The zig zagging? And I'm trying to imagine

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Speaker 2: I'm looking at her picture right now, this lady, well,

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Speaker 2: she's no lady, she's killer.

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Speaker 1: According to me.

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Speaker 2: Zig actually zig zagging in a residential area at eighty

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Speaker 2: plus miles an hour.

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Speaker 4: Right, I'll see it's a problem in the LA area.

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Speaker 4: I mean in this quiet, sleepy part of town. I

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Speaker 4: mean the first time I drove by this road, I

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Speaker 4: saw numerous pedestrians, numerous cyclists. The thought of going eighty

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Speaker 4: one miles an hour, which is the figure we've been given,

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Speaker 4: that is that's unthinkable on that road, I mean completely unthinkable.

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Speaker 4: But the judge in the preliminary hearing said that Grossman

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Speaker 4: was playing a high speed game of chicken with the

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Speaker 4: other driver in the incident, Scott Ericsson, and police said

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Speaker 4: that they were racing from a restaurant to a house.

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Speaker 4: The judge in the trial has taken a more skeptical

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Speaker 4: stance towards that term, and street racing is not part

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Speaker 4: of the charges in this case. But the prosecutor who

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Speaker 4: has said it's not a grease style of dropping of

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Speaker 4: the handkerchief scenario, he doesn't want to have to stop

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Speaker 4: a witness from using that word in the colloquial sense

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Speaker 4: to describe what they saw as the mother in this

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Speaker 4: case has done the mother of the victims. But there

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Speaker 4: is a history of speeding tickets and this driving record.

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Speaker 4: It was accompanied by a warning from the highway patrolman

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Speaker 4: who said, you know you could kill somebody driving like

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Speaker 4: this on the freeway.

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Speaker 1: How do we know?

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Speaker 2: He said that on one of her last spaiting tickets.

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Speaker 2: Is it on bodycam?

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Speaker 4: I'm not sure if it's on bodycam or if it

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Speaker 4: was a note was made of it some other.

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Speaker 2: Way crime stores with Nancy Gray. And now to the

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Speaker 2: California Big Dollhouse. Was that I'm talking about jail incarcerated

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Speaker 2: California socialite Rebecca Grossman slammed with a civil lawsuit as

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Speaker 2: grief stricken parents of two little boys that she mowed

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Speaker 2: down in a drunken hit and run. Seek a hit

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Speaker 2: her where it hurts in the wallet? What happened to

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Speaker 2: that day?

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Speaker 1: Eighty one and a forty five?

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Speaker 2: And when you say this sleepy little area of LA

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Speaker 2: for most people we think of LA although I live

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Speaker 2: there for a while, I do know that there are

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Speaker 2: sleepy little areas. Most people think of, you know, the

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Speaker 2: Walk of Fame. They think of downtown LA. What we

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Speaker 2: see in movies and TV what part of LA is

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Speaker 2: a sleepy little burrow.

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Speaker 4: Well, this is not the city of Los Angeles. This

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Speaker 4: is the absolute western edge of Los Angeles County. It's

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Speaker 4: a city called Westlake Village, which is less than eight

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Speaker 4: thousand people, and most of the city was annexed by

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Speaker 4: Ventura County. It became part of Thousand Oaks. So it's

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Speaker 4: a tiny, little affluent suburb just on the edge of

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Speaker 4: the county. And you know, really the point of it is,

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Speaker 4: it's not Los Angeles the city. You know, it's a

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Speaker 4: different kind of a.

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Speaker 2: Please you know, Amon Murphy, I'm trying to parse everything

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Speaker 2: you're saying because you're giving me so much correct information.

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Speaker 2: You said that LA has a problem with drag racing

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Speaker 2: or speed racing. I think that he said that, yeah,

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Speaker 2: by gang members. I don't think of some plastic surgeon

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Speaker 2: as old lady out there's dragging with her lover after

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Speaker 2: they booze it up at lunch. That must have been

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Speaker 2: some long lunch because now it's the evening and she's

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Speaker 2: drag racing with her excuse me, alleged lover. Alleged. I

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Speaker 2: haven't seen them in bed together. I don't know for

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Speaker 2: sure that they're lovers. But that said, this grown lady

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Speaker 2: drunk as a skunk drag race and mows all that,

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Speaker 2: you know what, money cannot buy class that is for sure.

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Speaker 4: What do you buy an AMG car for? I mean,

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Speaker 4: one thing the prosecution wanted to bring in is the

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Speaker 4: fact that she took a one day you know, performance

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Speaker 4: driving course on a closed track in twenty eighteen. And

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Speaker 4: the judge said, no.

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Speaker 2: You wait, wait, you're awesome number one a MG.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, AMG. It's it's it's a high performance kind of

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Speaker 4: a Mercedes, you know, these cars with the really loud engines,

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Speaker 4: and so that if you buy one of these cars,

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Speaker 4: you can participate in a course on a closed racetrack

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Speaker 4: where they kind of give you the you have an

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Speaker 4: instructor and you have a chance to you know, drive

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Speaker 4: fast and of course you're not on the streets, so

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Speaker 4: it's not dangerous in that way. And you're told that

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Speaker 4: the course, you know, this is you know, very controlled conditions.

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Speaker 4: You can't drive like this and the real world. So

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Speaker 4: she attended one of these in twenty eighteen, and the

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Speaker 4: prosecution had wanted to introduce this and bring this warning

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Speaker 4: into show because reed racing in the legal sense is

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Speaker 4: not part of the charges, but the prosecution means it

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Speaker 4: in the more colloquial sense of two cars driving very

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Speaker 4: quickly mirroring each other, something we see a lot on

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Speaker 4: the freeway, and something that a witness in the case

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Speaker 4: might say about this incident, as the mother of the

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Speaker 4: victims has done.

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Speaker 2: Joining us former prosecutor and Lawrence County, PA author of

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Speaker 2: the executioners toll wait for it. The Executioner's told the crimes, arrest, trials, appeals,

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Speaker 2: last meals, and final words of executed persons forty six

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Speaker 2: people across the US.

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Speaker 1: I love that title.

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Speaker 2: You can find them at Mattmanngino dot com. Matthew Mangino.

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Speaker 2: We both tried a lot of homicide cases. To show

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Speaker 2: intent to a jury, you can show them intent either

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Speaker 2: implied or express. Express means I say, Jackie, I'm going

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Speaker 2: to shoot you dead right now, and I shoot her dead.

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Speaker 2: That's not gonna happen because I need you desperately. And

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Speaker 2: there is implied intent, such as you choose to get

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Speaker 2: stink and drunk, walk to your car, insert in the key,

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Speaker 2: start the ignition, put it reverse, put it in drive,

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Speaker 2: hit the gas, or let me give an easier one

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Speaker 2: with implied intent. I go and I practice shoot at

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Speaker 2: a range for twenty hours. Then I go by, let's

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Speaker 2: just go with a glock. Then I stop my husband,

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Speaker 2: who I find out has been cheating, not true, and

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Speaker 2: then I get him in the crosshairs and I spy

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Speaker 2: on him till he comes out of the office and

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Speaker 2: I train across the parculant. Boom, hegone, all right, So

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Speaker 2: that is implied intent. It was a very long drawn

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Speaker 2: out plan, even though I didn't expressly say it.

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Speaker 1: I think here, I would argue to the jury.

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Speaker 2: I'd show them this picture of her car totally bashed

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Speaker 2: in in the front and go through what all she

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Speaker 2: did before she landed right here, all the warnings, all

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Speaker 2: the speeding tickets, all the booze that afternoon, and say

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Speaker 2: that's implied intent, right.

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Speaker 8: You know, second degree murder in California is you have

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Speaker 8: to show malice of forethought. You don't have. You don't

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Speaker 8: show deliberation or premeditation, just that malice. And in drinking

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Speaker 8: where you have a blood alcohol content three hours later

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Speaker 8: that zero point zero eight, which is clearly indicative that

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Speaker 8: it would have been higher at the time you were driving,

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Speaker 8: and that you're driving eighty miles an hour and a

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Speaker 8: forty five mile an hour zone where there are pedestrians

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Speaker 8: frequently in that area is enough to show malice. I mean,

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Speaker 8: plus her history of driving and an excess of speed

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Speaker 8: at times all amounts to her malice. She's grossly negligent.

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Speaker 8: She's reckless in getting behind the wheel and driving at

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Speaker 8: that speed in an area in which there frequently are

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Speaker 8: people and young people exercising involved in recreation. And because

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Speaker 8: of that there's ample evidence to convict her of second

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Speaker 8: degree murder.

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Speaker 2: Well, now we're getting a whole spin on it, and

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Speaker 2: luckily for tuitously, today we have with us premier accident

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Speaker 2: reconstruction as senior engineer co owner of Vera Tech Consulting

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Speaker 2: Engineering at Vera Tech eg for Engineering dot com, Joseph Trimblay, Joseph,

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Speaker 2: We've got a few things to run by you. But first,

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Speaker 2: Stacy Stewart, the CEO of Mothers Against Drunk Driving MAD,

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Speaker 2: which has now taken off across this country and is

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Speaker 2: a veritable force against drunk driving. Stacy Stewart, Aman Murphy,

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Speaker 2: isn't it true that she would not willingly give a

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Speaker 2: blood draw and that she wouldn't quote really blow into

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Speaker 2: the breathalyzer.

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Speaker 4: I've heard that about them, that she wasn't really blowing

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Speaker 4: and that's why they wanted to get the blood. And

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Speaker 4: while you had those readings that were point oh seventy six,

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Speaker 4: and then later on the blood draw reading is higher.

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Speaker 4: She did not give consent to have the blood drawn.

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Speaker 4: She said she wanted to ask her her husband when

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Speaker 4: they said will you consent to this? So instead there

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Speaker 4: was a forced blood draw. She was taken to the

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Speaker 4: hospital by the police and there her blood was taken

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Speaker 4: and that's where they got the point eight result.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Stacy Stewart joining US CEO of Mothers Against Drunk

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Speaker 2: Driving Mad. See, if she's point eight hours later, once

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Speaker 2: she gets to the hospital and they perform the blood draw,

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Speaker 2: there's no telling what she was because alcohol dissipates in

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Speaker 2: the body.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly right.

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Speaker 9: And if she was at point oh eight three hours

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Speaker 9: after the crash occurred, and she was significantly higher than that,

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Speaker 9: presumably at the time of the crash, I'm sure I

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Speaker 9: know that that's what the prosecutors will will argue. And

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Speaker 9: one of the things I think, one of the things

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Speaker 9: that I think a lot of people Nancy don't understand

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Speaker 9: is that even at levels less than point oh eight

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Speaker 9: drivers aren't paired. You know, there's a there was a

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Speaker 9: bill introduced in California, and there's one that's been introducing

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Speaker 9: other states trying to move the legal limit to point

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Speaker 9: oh five blood alcohol concentration level, because all the studies

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Speaker 9: that we have seen have shown that the risk of

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Speaker 9: crash is significantly higher at point oh five, seven times

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Speaker 9: high as compared to for drivers that are anywhere from

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Speaker 9: point oh five to point oh eight, as compared to

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Speaker 9: drivers with no alcohol in their system. So we know

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Speaker 9: that at any level of drinking and get and driving,

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Speaker 9: a driver can be impaired and can dangerously put themselves

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Speaker 9: at risk or others, as is the case here obviously

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Speaker 9: from the facts that we know.

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Speaker 4: There's one other thing to say here, Nancy, which is

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Speaker 4: that the tochochology reports also showed a small amount of value.

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Speaker 4: So the prosecution is going to say that there's an

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Speaker 4: interaction between the value and the alcohol which increases the

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Speaker 4: impairment effect, even if you have a level of reading

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Speaker 4: that is not all that high in terms of the

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Speaker 4: legal limit, Nancy.

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Speaker 9: One thing I would just say about that is ahead

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Speaker 9: one of the things I would just say about that

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Speaker 9: point is that we are seeing a concerning trend of

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Speaker 9: what we call poly use, so the use of alcohol

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Speaker 9: and other substances like prescription drugs, value like cannabis. So

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Speaker 9: in state that has also legalized marijuana where it's more

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Speaker 9: widely available, moving the blood alcohol concentration level to point

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Speaker 9: oh five, it's even more critical because multiple substances can

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Speaker 9: lead to even more impairment by drivers, and we're seeing

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Speaker 9: a disturbing trend about that where we've seen an increase

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Speaker 9: in impair driving fatalities. It's thirty five percent even over

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Speaker 9: the past few years. So we're seeing an increasing trend,

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Speaker 9: and of course this multiple use of substances is obviously

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Speaker 9: an issue that we have to address.

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Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan is joining US professor for insis Jacksonville

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Speaker 2: State University, author A Blood Beneath My Fate on Amazon,

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Speaker 2: and star of a hit series Body Bags with Joe

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Speaker 2: Scott Morgan. Joe Scott why and how does all that

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Speaker 2: alcohol dissipate in just three hours?

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Speaker 10: Well, it's metabolic change or processing rather, so your body

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Speaker 10: is actually metabolizing this alcohol that has been ingested previously

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Speaker 10: and that's why I You know, once someone has become

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Speaker 10: inebriated over a period of time, once they stop drinking,

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Speaker 10: it stands to reason that the body is still processing

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Speaker 10: all of this alcohol that's contained in the body of

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Speaker 10: the ethanol, and as it's being burned off in the body,

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Speaker 10: you begin to kind of return back to a level

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Speaker 10: of normalcy. But it takes a while for it to

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Speaker 10: all get out of your body. And so what's key

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Speaker 10: here is when you are in law enforcement and you're

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Speaker 10: attempting to conduct a test on an individual to measure it,

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Speaker 10: you're fighting. You're fighting against time here because you can't

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Speaker 10: fight metabolism in the body. So it's a race. So

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Speaker 10: the longer you wait, the less the level will be.

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Speaker 10: But you know, you kind of project this back. If

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Speaker 10: you're talking about three hour delay, you can kind of

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Speaker 10: hypothesize that the level would have been much higher and

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Speaker 10: with a much greater level of impairment as well. And

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Speaker 10: you couple that with valume and it's a deadly mix.

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Speaker 2: The grieving parents of two little boys mowed down dead

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Speaker 2: by a wealthy socialite, Rebecca Grossman, Oh, oh, it was

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Speaker 2: a horrific, horrific hit and run waited nearly four years

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Speaker 2: to see her finally convicted by a jury and sent

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Speaker 2: to jail for fifteen years to life. Don't worry, she'll

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Speaker 2: get out early. But now they're hitting her and her

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Speaker 2: family where it hurts them the most. In the bank account.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 2: The parents have filed an unlawful death civil lawsuit against

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Speaker 2: a Grossman. They've even asked an LA judge to let

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Speaker 2: them probe the finances of Grossman, who is estimated to

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Speaker 2: be worth at least twenty million dollars. This after they

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Speaker 2: have been forced to endure losing their two beloved little boys,

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Speaker 2: Mark eleven and Jacob eight. Take a listen to Captain

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Speaker 2: Salvador Materira.

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Speaker 1: Two cars were racing.

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Speaker 11: We believe speed is a factor.

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Speaker 12: Alcohol is a factor. The family were in a marked crosswalk,

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Speaker 12: clearly marked. As she realized there were two cars speeding

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Speaker 12: her way, she was able to reach out and grab

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Speaker 12: one of her children off of a razor scooter, pulled

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Speaker 12: the child back with the stroller, with another child at

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Speaker 12: a stroller as the car entered the intersection and hit

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Speaker 12: the other two boys.

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Speaker 2: What more do we know about what happened when these

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Speaker 2: two little boys were mowed down?

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Speaker 1: Dead listen to our friends at crime Online.

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Speaker 3: Deputies reportedly catch up with the white Mercedes with significant

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Speaker 3: front end damage a third of a mile from the scene.

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Speaker 3: Behind the wheel is Rebecca Grossman. A deputy describes finding

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Speaker 3: the vehicle stopped at the curb and Grossman saying she

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Speaker 3: didn't know why her airbag had been triggered. As Grossman

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Speaker 3: speaks to a nine to one to one operator, she's

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Speaker 3: asked if she hit someone. Grossman can be heard so

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Speaker 3: saying I don't know what I hit.

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Speaker 11: One of the boys struck in the crosswalk is pronounced

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Speaker 11: dead on the scene, according to KCl, and another boy

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Speaker 11: dies in the hospital. Police were able to arrest fifty

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Speaker 11: seven year old Rebecca Grossman, a well known figure in

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Speaker 11: the community who appeared on KCl in the past as

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Speaker 11: the founder and chair of the Grossman Burne Foundation. She's

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Speaker 11: also been recognized for her humanitarian work around the world.

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Speaker 11: Captain Salvador Besa says it is senseless and could have

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Speaker 11: been avoided by ordering an uber or calling a friend.

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Speaker 11: Rebecca Grossman did not stay on the scene. She was

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Speaker 11: arrested a quarter of a mile away.

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Speaker 2: So Amon Murphy from the Acorn Newspapers she flees the

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Speaker 2: scene and it starts saying, I don't know what I hit.

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Speaker 2: She's in the wide, high powered Mercedes with all of

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Speaker 2: the damage to the front right in the middle of

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Speaker 2: the grill.

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Speaker 4: That's right. She kept driving. The engine was cut off

438
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 4: remotely because the airbag had deployed, So the car eventually

439
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 4: stopped and she was founde by deputy.

440
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 2: That's probably the only reason she stopped, as supposed the

441
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 2: car forced her to stop when the airbag deployed. With

442
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 2: me is Joseph Tremblay, a premier Accident reconstruction, a senior

443
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 2: engineer co owner VERITEC Consulting Engineering. Joseph, I wanted you

444
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 2: to hear these facts so you could give me your analysis.

445
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 1: What do you think.

446
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 13: Well, let's talk about that car a little bit more

447
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 13: and the damage to the front end. It's pretty obvious

448
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,639
Speaker 13: that there's significant damage to both the front clip and

449
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 13: the hood, which is very consistent with contact made between

450
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 13: the car and a pedestrian in this case.

451
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:41,919
Speaker 2: Oh wait, I see what you're talking about. When you

452
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 2: say the front grill or I say grill.

453
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:45,679
Speaker 1: And you say hood.

454
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 2: You know if you look at that picture Joseph Tremblay

455
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 2: and of course, I'm a civilian in this matter. It

456
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 2: looks like there is a spot where a boy's body

457
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 2: could lay, almost like a hammock has been formed in

458
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 2: her hood.

459
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 13: Yeah, that's correct, and I think that's probably what happened

460
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 13: in this case, is that one of the little boys

461
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 13: actually ended up on the hood, as tragic as that sounds,

462
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 13: and was carried by the car for a significant distance

463
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 13: after impact. And another thing that's interesting to note. On

464
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 13: that picture that you're referring to, where you see the

465
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 13: front end damage, you also see underneath the car there's

466
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 13: a puddle of fluid, almost as if perhaps the car

467
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 13: sustains some sort of mechanical damage from this contact. And

468
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 13: not only was the car disabled because of the airbag deployment,

469
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:46,919
Speaker 13: it may not have been driveable at all because of

470
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 13: the coolant leak. That's probably what happened here.

471
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 2: Well, I'm trying to furiously take notes as you write.

472
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 2: It's amazing to me that her defense is that it

473
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,880
Speaker 2: was her boyfriend that did it, the one driving the

474
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 2: other car. When they pull this vehicle over, she had

475
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 2: been forced to stop, either from the fluid leakage or

476
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 2: because the airbag deployed. She did you hear this part

477
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 2: to you, Robert Crispin. She wouldn't quote really blow into

478
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,679
Speaker 2: the breathalyzer, don't you know.

479
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: It's because she knew she.

480
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,439
Speaker 2: Was drunk, and she thought by just going and not

481
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,439
Speaker 2: really blowing into it fully, she might beat the breath lizer.

482
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 5: So listen, The breathalyzer machines are very accurate, and they're

483
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 5: very sensitive, and they're built for people that are going

484
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 5: to do that. So clearly it obtained a reasonable sample

485
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 5: to come up with an indication and a reading being

486
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 5: the point zero seven to six. So yes, I've had

487
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 5: a bunch of people and I've arrested over one hundred

488
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 5: people for DUI in my career. Yes, people always try

489
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 5: to do that. They always try to very lightly blow,

490
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 5: but these machines are built for that. They sense that

491
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 5: the machines aren't stupid.

492
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 6: So if I could just add.

493
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 4: One thing about the.

494
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 5: Point when she went up to the point eight, and

495
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 5: I think your doctor will also be able to confirm

496
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 5: with this. You can drink alcohol and have three drinks

497
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 5: right now and getting your car two seconds, which is

498
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 5: a very stupid thing to do. But you can drive

499
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 5: a half a block away and get home and you're

500
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 5: probably still under the legal limit because, as the doctor says,

501
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 5: the alcohol hasn't processed your body. Clearly, she was going

502
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 5: up in her BAC level or her blood alcohol level,

503
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 5: which I surmise is why the prosecution did not charge

504
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 5: her with DUY because at the time she took that

505
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 5: first test. Now maybe it was a PVT test, maybe

506
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 5: it was a roadside test, I don't know, but whatever

507
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 5: machine she blew into, and then they took the other

508
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 5: blood tests at the hospital I believe in the three

509
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 5: hours and the doctor can confirm us her blood alphol

510
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 5: level was going up. And I have a feeling that

511
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 5: the prosecution said, err on the side of caution because

512
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 5: they're going to say she wasn't DUI at the time

513
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 5: of the crash. At the time of the crash, that's

514
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 5: a big deal at the time of the crash.

515
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, that explains why they didn't charge her driving under

516
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 2: the influence, because I think all that count it could

517
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 2: taint or poison the rest of the counts.

518
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 1: They absolutely know they can prove to be UI. Yeah,

519
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 1: to be.

520
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 2: DUI across the country, you got to be in most jurisdics,

521
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 2: just point zero eight. And at first she blew point

522
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 2: zero seven six, which rounds up to point eight.

523
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 1: But that's not good enough.

524
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 2: When she gets to the hospital, she does the blood

525
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 2: test shows point zero eight. I personally trust a blood

526
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 2: test more than the breathalyzer, and the breathalyzer may have

527
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 2: hit low because she was going not really blowing into it.

528
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 2: But we're going to hear more about that during the trial.

529
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 2: You know another thing, and I'm very curious about this.

530
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 2: I'll throw this to Joseph Tremblay. Our acent reconstruction is

531
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 2: joining us. A former La County Sheriff's deputy who specializes

532
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 2: in traffic crashes, testified at a preliminary hearing his name

533
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 2: Robert Appadaka, that he had never seen a person thrown

534
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty four feet by impact. It's the

535
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 2: farthest he has ever known a human to be thrown

536
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 2: in a crash.

537
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 13: What about it, Tremblay, I think that is a significant distance,

538
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 13: and I am also very surprised at that distances. That's incredible,

539
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 13: and I think there's probably two factors that really contributed

540
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 13: to that number, and the first was that, as we

541
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 13: touched on earlier, I think one of these pedestrians, one

542
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 13: of these little boys was actually up on the hood

543
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 13: for a distance while the car was driving. And you know,

544
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 13: this car's going pretty fast seventy eighty miles per hour

545
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 13: according to evidence, and it doesn't take a whole lot

546
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 13: of time to cover that kind of distance. So there

547
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 13: was probably a portion of that two hundred and fifty

548
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 13: four feet in which the little boy was on the

549
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 13: hood and then was vaulted off of the hood at

550
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 13: some point and then you know, unfortunately came to rest

551
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 13: where he did. But both of those factors kind of

552
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 13: contribute to that distance. And I want to swing back

553
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 13: and talk about this car a little bit more. One

554
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 13: thing that's kind of unique to Mercedes is Mercedes has

555
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 13: done a lot of safety improvements to their vehicles because

556
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 13: they know that pedestrian accidents are very very dangerous and

557
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 13: they're usually fatal and it's very serious when these occur.

558
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 13: So one of the safety features on all Mercedes cars

559
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 13: ever since twenty nineteen is called pre Safe and that's

560
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 13: a system that's designed to detect pedestrians. Now, the only

561
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 13: way that that system will work is if the car

562
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 13: is traveling forty five miles per hour or less, so

563
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 13: it goes to stay that we could consider if this

564
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 13: driver Grossman, if she was traveling the speed limit, this

565
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 13: accident may have never happened.

566
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 2: Wow, I didn't know about pre safe on Mercedes.

567
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace.

568
00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 2: In the last days to grieving parents state in court.

569
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 2: In light of the defendant, Rebecca Grossman's five felony convictions

570
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:08,280
Speaker 2: and all the evidence to date, there's a substantial probability

571
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 2: that the parents will prevail on their claim.

572
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 1: This coming up on the fourth anniversary.

573
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 2: Of the little boy's tragic, untimely deaths back September twenty nine,

574
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 2: twenty twenty, these candors completely devastated. I know money will

575
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 2: not bring the little boys back, but this is a

576
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 2: move that would hit the wealthy socialite driving drunk.

577
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 1: Where it hurts in her piggybank.

578
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 2: What is a grown woman doing drag racing drunk as

579
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 2: a skunk and high as a kite off of valium

580
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 2: in booze? Karen Start joining me, renowned psychologists joining us

581
00:34:56,200 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 2: out of the Manhattan jurisdiction at Karenstart dot com with

582
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,320
Speaker 2: a sea Karen, what's a grown woman doing drag racing

583
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 2: with her alleged lover?

584
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 1: And this guy is no schlump?

585
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 2: La Dodgers, play with the La Dodgers and with the

586
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 2: New York Yankees, and he's having this alcohol soaked lunch

587
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 2: with this married multi millionaire and then they decide to

588
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:22,280
Speaker 2: go drag racing.

589
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 1: Really, well, you're.

590
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 14: Not talking about the kind of grown woman that we

591
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 14: would imagine that they've been spending the whole afternoon having

592
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 14: a great time drinking. Allegedly he's an ex lover and

593
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 14: where I don't know, supposedly for Tris. I don't know

594
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 14: what they were doing. But she's not just a edate

595
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 14: controlled person. She's now has value in her system. She's drinking,

596
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,280
Speaker 14: she's having this great time with an ex lover, and she's.

597
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: Just letting loose.

598
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 14: What's really telling to me, I don't know about this

599
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 14: isn't my expertise, But the fact that she said I

600
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,399
Speaker 14: don't know what I hit to me is saying that

601
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 14: she knows she hit something, she just doesn't know what

602
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 14: it is that she hit.

603
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 2: I mean, get real, Karen Stark, come on, please get

604
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 2: out of that Ivory tower. She drives what was it

605
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 2: a quarter of a mile? A half a mile? Emon

606
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:24,800
Speaker 2: Murphy right with the little boy on her hood.

607
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: Exactly how far did she drive amon with the boy

608
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: on the hood.

609
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 4: Well, I'm not the detail about the boy on the

610
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 4: hood has has been contested a bit.

611
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 1: What does the state say.

612
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 4: I mean, initially, I'm not. I don't want to say

613
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 4: the say that the figures in the past, because they've

614
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 4: been they've been challenged. I mean the car, the car

615
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,320
Speaker 4: continued driving before she stopped, either a quarter mile or

616
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 4: a half mile, so she was, you know, she was continuing.

617
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: Well, where was the little boy's body found?

618
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 4: There was? One of them was found in the crosswalk basically,

619
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 4: and another was found around two two hundred some feet away.

620
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 2: Okay, Trembly, that's to you. The little boy was found

621
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 2: two hundred feet away, at least two hundred feet away.

622
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 2: So she drove two thirds of a football field with

623
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 2: the boy on her hood. What she can see that?

624
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 13: Oh, I think she's oblivious. And it really surprises me

625
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 13: that not only did she not see these two little

626
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 13: boys before impact. I mean, this is a wide open intersection,

627
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 13: and it's a very well lit, well marked crosswalk. It's

628
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 13: got there's flashing lights overhead. You can see it for

629
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 13: about one thousand.

630
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 11: Feet before you get to it.

631
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 13: So it's let's let's make sure that that's a point

632
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 13: that we talk about here, is that there's no visual

633
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 13: obstructions to what you know she can see, but not

634
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 13: only that after impact, she's completely oblivious. There's there's a

635
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,280
Speaker 13: little boy on her hood and she continues to drive.

636
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 13: That's how serious this is. That's just plain egregious.

637
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: You know, Matthew Mangino.

638
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 2: Sometimes the defense shoots themselves in the foot, and I

639
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 2: think that happened here because the defense came up with

640
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:21,240
Speaker 2: a new theory as defense, claiming the alleged lover, he's

641
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 2: the one that was driving her Mercedes as they were

642
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 2: drag racing and chasing each other through this residential neighborhood.

643
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 2: And now the prosecutor, Jamie Castro, will argue that she,

644
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 2: Rebecca Grossman, and the professional.

645
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 1: Athlete Scott Ericsson had been in a sex affair.

646
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 2: They said they were not going to bring it up

647
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:53,720
Speaker 2: until she's now blaming him, claiming it has now become

648
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 2: relevant because the defense intends to argue that the black

649
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 2: car is at issue in this particular scenario and that

650
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:06,240
Speaker 2: they had swapped. So by coming out with this defense,

651
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,760
Speaker 2: now their sex affair is going to come into evidence.

652
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 8: Yeah, it will, and as you said, it wasn't the

653
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:18,800
Speaker 8: state's intention to bring up the affair until they tried

654
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:25,240
Speaker 8: to put forward this defense that he was driving her vehicle.

655
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 8: So that whole issue with regard to their relationship is

656
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 8: now something that can be brought before the jury. And obviously,

657
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 8: you know, a jury's going to make a decision here

658
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,800
Speaker 8: and they're going to consider the fact, but they also

659
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 8: are going to consider the credibility, the believability of witnesses.

660
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,800
Speaker 2: The mother of the two little boys who were mowed

661
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:56,720
Speaker 2: down dead actually runs out of the courtroom sobbing. Aimon

662
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 2: Murphy joining us investigative reporter writer for the Acorn Newspapers,

663
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 2: go ahead.

664
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 4: Well, Nancy, we heard from the mother of the victims, Nancy,

665
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 4: a Scander, who described having to jump out of the

666
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 4: way of an oncoming black suv with her youngest son.

667
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 4: Now a white suv coming just up behind it ran

668
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 4: through the intersection where her other two boys were. She

669
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,240
Speaker 4: didn't see it hit them, but she heard a crash

670
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 4: as it went by, and then they'd been struck. At

671
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 4: one point, after she had testified, they were photographs shown

672
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,240
Speaker 4: that another witness had taken of the aftermath of the scene,

673
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 4: including of a broken skateboard, her oldest son, Mark had

674
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,800
Speaker 4: been on a skateboard, and also a Mark's body, and Nancy,

675
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 4: a scander at that point, cried out her son's name,

676
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 4: Mark's name and had to leave the courtroom in distress.

677
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 4: We also heard from some other witnesses of the collisions.

678
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 4: None of them saw the white car hit both of

679
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 4: the boys, but two of them saw the white car

680
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 4: hit one of the boys, and none of them attributed

681
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 4: any impact to a black vehicle, which has been the

682
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 4: defense's claim that the black car, driven by Grossman's then boyfriend,

683
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 4: Scott Erickson, was responsible for hitting the boys. We also

684
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 4: saw the defense very aggressively cross examined two investigators, one

685
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 4: of whom did the initial crash report. They were going

686
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 4: after his measurements of the debris, which led to his

687
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 4: conclusion that speed was the cause of the accident, as

688
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 4: well as his conclusion that all the debris was consistent

689
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 4: with the white Mercedes. He was also the same officer

690
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 4: to initially come into contact with Rebecca Grossman and her

691
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:45,840
Speaker 4: disabled white Mercedes after the accident, and then the officer

692
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:50,359
Speaker 4: who conducted the field sobriety test under cross examination acknowledged

693
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,400
Speaker 4: that not all of the tests were conducted according to

694
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 4: the book, which cast some doubt onto his conclusions that

695
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 4: she was impaired he when he arrested her. Testimony has

696
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 4: gotten up to the point where Rebecca Grossman's blood was

697
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 4: drawn at the hospital after a warrant was obtained to

698
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,839
Speaker 4: do a blood draw. So next they're going to get

699
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 4: into the chemist's account of the test results, which is

700
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 4: important because that result is what was at the point

701
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 4: eight level. Three hours after the incident. The breathalyzer results

702
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 4: were point seven to six and point seven to five,

703
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 4: which are just below that threshold for impairment. You can

704
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 4: still be impaired technically below that limit, but it's going

705
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 4: to be important for the prosecution to get that test

706
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 4: established at that point eight level, and the defense is

707
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 4: going to go after the blood draw and the testing method.

708
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 2: You know Stacy Stewart's CEO and weet of Mothers against

709
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 2: Drunk Driving MAD. I don't get why, after all the

710
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 2: publicity that MAD has generated, people still drive drunk. You know.

711
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 9: It's it's it's a problem mentioned earlier, Nancy. We're seeing

712
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 9: the numbers going in the wrong direction, a thirty five

713
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 9: percent increase in the past several years is astounding, and

714
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 9: I think one of the things that's really important is

715
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 9: it's really time for us to revisit the laws and

716
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 9: the technology that we have in place. I just was

717
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 9: just listening to the technology and Mercedes, you know, even

718
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 9: that technology is not sufficient to stop to something like this.

719
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:23,880
Speaker 9: But I do want you to know and others to

720
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 9: know that. In twenty twenty one, November twenty twenty one,

721
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 9: the Halt Act was passed. It is new legislation that

722
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 9: now requires passive, advanced and pair driving prevention systems to

723
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 9: be integrated into all new cars starting in twenty twenty six.

724
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 9: This is passive technology that would detect in pair driving

725
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 9: and it's these kinds of cases that this technology, if

726
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 9: it were in place, would have prevented anyone getting behind

727
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 9: a wheel at the level of illegal impairment would not

728
00:43:56,200 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 9: be allowed to operate their car. And right now, Mad's

729
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 9: biggest priority is getting this technology implemented, getting the bio

730
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 9: legislation implemented. We're in the process of public commentary right now.

731
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 4: This is a huge win, but.

732
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 9: It's not a win for drivers and for public safety

733
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 9: if we every day that we don't have this technology

734
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:21,320
Speaker 9: included in cars. But we are close to it, and frankly,

735
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 9: this kind of prevention system would have been enormously helpful

736
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 9: to have saved the lives of these two precious little boys.

737
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 2: Well, you're right, you're right, Stacy Stewart. You know what

738
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 2: else would have been helpful? If Rebecca Grossman hadn't gotten

739
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 2: drunk as a skunk at launch and hot behind the

740
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:41,320
Speaker 2: wheels of our high power Mercedes. That would have helped

741
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 2: we wait as justice unfolds.

742
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 1: Goodbye, friend,