WEBVTT - Is there a secret room inside Mount Rushmore? 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:04.680 From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:09.080 riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:12.119 learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:14.320 production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:25.600 --> 0:00:27.840 Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt. 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:30.200 Our colleague Noel is on an adventure, but will be 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:31.240 returning shortly. 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:34.400 They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:38.599 super producer Dylan, the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:42.280 are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff 0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:46.240 they don't want you to know now, Uh, Matt Dylan, 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:49.559 Have you guys ever visited the Black Hills or what 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:51.080 we call Mount Rushmore today? 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:55.920 Nay, I have not, Have you, I have not. 0:00:56.720 --> 0:01:02.720 It's something that honestly, I've been conflicted about visiting over 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:06.360 the decades because you know, there's this ongoing controversy which 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:10.640 we'll get into about Mount Rushmore. And when we're talking 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:15.000 about Mount Rushmore, really it's a National Park site, but 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:18.920 we're usually going to be referring to the gigantic sculpture 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:21.919 out there in the Black Hills region of South Dakota. 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:24.640 It's one of the most iconic landmarks in all of 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:28.680 the United States. You know, recognized internationally right up there 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:32.640 with the Statue of Liberty, And every so often since 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:37.320 this thing was constructed, a president from one party or 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:41.720 another will tacitly start to feel out the vibe and 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:43.959 see if they can get their face added onto it. 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:46.720 Oh sick. I mean there's room. 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:50.000 There's that little nook in between two of the faces 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:51.960 where you could clearly put somebody in there. 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:56.080 Yeah, you could, but should you? You know what I mean. 0:01:56.680 --> 0:02:02.800 It's always recently been funny because there were moves for 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:06.920 President Barack Obama to have his face put on there, 0:02:06.960 --> 0:02:10.280 and they were also people were floating the idea of 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:15.280 putting President Donald Trump's face on there, and in both 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:20.320 of those cases, well, in the most recent case, the 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:25.080 president said, you know a lot of people are saying this, yeah, 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:27.480 trying to make it look like it wasn't their idea. 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:29.040 Let's go whacky with it. 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:32.600 Let's like, let's put prints up there, and then future 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:36.280 historians will be like, who was that guy? Yeah, because, 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:39.640 as we'll find out later in this episode, there's some 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:46.480 documentation about who these guys are for future generations, future extraterrestrials. 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:48.480 But maybe we just threw prints or somebody like that 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:48.960 up there. 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:53.760 You know what, why limit it to human beings? I 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:57.600 would like I would like something further inexplicable, like just 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:04.799 a huge crew or a wacky meme. Let's let's start 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:09.480 making memes in stone, which I guess is how how 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:10.519 memes really began. 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:13.920 Anyway, that would really make sense for the way things 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:15.960 have been going if we just put some kind of 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:19.080 stonk meme up there, you know, or whatever, just some 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:21.200 kind of and it would make a lot of sense 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:22.880 for how things have been going. Just to put some 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:27.040 kind of ridiculous internet meme up there. Yeah, we kind 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:29.880 of started like that, but end it over here. 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:33.639 Classic human right, because we have to remember that one 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:38.400 of the oldest instances of writing that's been discovered. Basically, 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:42.200 I think this is right. It basically translates to Wagner 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:47.360 was here. It's graffiti, So I could I could see that. 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:50.440 I could definitely see putting a little more humor in 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:54.880 these monuments. Mount Rushmore is mentioned constantly in film and fiction. 0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:59.120 Are you guys fans of the National Treasure franchise the 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:00.320 Nicholas CAGEV Vehicle? 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:02.040 I am aware of it. 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:04.320 I enjoy it. 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:07.520 I've never seen it. I feel like it's a movie night. 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:10.040 It might be a movie night. It's definitely one you'll 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:11.040 want some popcorn for. 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:14.760 Can we do some Dan Brown and National Treasure stuff 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:16.120 like in one night? 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:19.560 Yeah? I think so. I think it's apropos. Get all 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:24.479 that Indiana Jones adjacent stuff knocked out. And we also 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:28.880 know something for our purposes tonight, Mount Rushmore. Get this, folks, 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:32.200 it has a secret. So in tonight's episode we're getting 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:41.599 into some weird, ridiculous history of the site. Here are 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:44.760 the facts, all right, we'll say it this way. Pardon 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:49.640 our pronunciation. Long long before the arrival of the Europeans, 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:52.920 the Plains tribes in what we call the Black Hills 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:57.479 or Paha Sappa, they revered the area that is now 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:03.119 called Mount Rushmore. They called it Tonka si La soakpe Paha, 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:07.039 which translates to the six Grandfathers. It's a pretty cool name. 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:08.360 Nice. 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:09.040 Uh. 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:14.040 Yeah, it refers to I guess some deities in the 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:14.680 culture there. 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:21.080 Yeah, yeah, embodiments of the six directions. And I hadn't 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:23.640 thought of this idea of six directions. But the way 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:29.080 they process it is northeast, southwest and then above and below. 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:34.600 Oh yes, yeah, it's a sacred site, and so over millennia, 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:38.760 visiting there was often considered a spiritual journey, kind of 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:41.919 like taking a pilgrimage. You know, it's not a place 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:45.400 where you leave your trash. We also know in eighteen 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:48.440 sixty eight, the US government signed a treaty with the Sioux, 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:52.880 the Lakota Sioux, in particular, promising the following. They said, 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:57.200 all right, you and your community will have exclusive rights 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:00.560 across the Black Hills. You'll have the right to use 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:03.440 the land you run it. It's up to you. We're 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:06.960 going to stay out of your business, including the sacred 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:11.000 six Grandfather's site. This is called the eighteen sixty eight 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:17.000 Treaty of Fort Laramie. And spoiler, it didn't work out 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:21.800 super great Matt when General George Custer, you know that 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:25.800 one Custer's last stand guy, when he reached the top 0:06:25.839 --> 0:06:30.040 of Black Elk Peak in eighteen seventy four during the 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:36.200 Black Hills Expedition. The American expansion here triggered a massive 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:40.000 resource rush, which also triggered the Great Sioux War of 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:43.680 eighteen seventy six. And that this is kind of like 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:46.080 a dark version of that children's book. If you give 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:49.440 him alse a cookie. Do you remember that one? Oh yeah, yeah, 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:54.159 So you give these expansions for sys some gold. It 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:57.320 leads to a war, and then that leads just a 0:06:57.400 --> 0:07:02.560 year later to the US breaking their treaty, their treaty 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:05.960 with the native population that is not even a decade old. 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:09.359 They just said, nah, forget it. They took control of 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:12.280 the land, and then they opened it up to this deluge, 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:16.360 this massive influx of settlers and prospectors, who, to the 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:18.960 Native community obviously are invaders. 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:23.200 Yeah, a little bit, a little bit. Just watching a 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:26.240 video William shatnher as our head. I think it was 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:29.800 on the History Channel, and it was talking about American monuments, 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:34.000 and it really kind of sugarcoated some of the Founding 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:39.560 Fathers and Founding Forces relationships with like the Iroquois tribe 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:41.880 and Lakota Tribe and some of these tribes out here, 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:46.280 where you're just like, uh, these obviously aren't the Founding 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:49.320 Fathers in eighteen seventy six were well over one hundred 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:52.240 years away from that time. But it's still just hearing 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:58.200 it talked about how much how much integration there was 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:01.720 during the some of the processes to create the United States, 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:04.080 like the Iroquois tribe was in the room while they 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:08.040 were making doing some of these things, and it painted 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:10.640 it as well. It was important for you know, the 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:13.720 colonies to have good relationships with the Iroquois and other 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:16.720 tribes because fifty percent of their trading was done with 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:21.200 these tribes. And yeah, I don't know, just think about 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:23.160 it in that way, at least early on and then 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:27.040 knowing the rest of history and what was done, and 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:29.360 now jumping you know, one hundred years later just to 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:32.400 see that, Oh, it just took some golds and resources 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:36.240 to start an entire war after everything was pretty great. 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:43.800 Right well, after making so many promises right on the look. 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:47.040 At the time this treaty came about too before was 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:50.160 before it was broken back in eighteen sixty eight. The 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:56.000 indigenous people in the area already knew that the United 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:59.600 States had a terrible track record with treaties, and so 0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:03.160 they were continually choosing the path of peace, which is 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:07.040 an ethical and noble thing to do, and they continually 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:11.560 ran into volkes acting like snakes, just untrustworthy. So one 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:16.319 of these people who is very interested in the gold 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:18.960 rush in the Black Hills at this time, he's a 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:23.080 New York mining man. He's a guy named James Wilson. 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:26.360 He has mining interest and he's pretty well to do. 0:09:26.840 --> 0:09:32.079 And I personally love hearing these kind of things where 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:35.760 somebody's doing so well or they're a big time investor, 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:37.840 and when you ask them what they do, they don't 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:40.800 say investment. They just say, oh, I'm in water, you 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:41.760 know what do you mean? 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:43.920 Like mostly ten? 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:48.439 Yeah, he's a ten man, yes, quite literally. Yeah. He 0:09:48.520 --> 0:09:52.440 founds the Harney Peak ten Mining Company and through this 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:56.960 he purchases rights to areas of the Black Hills, which, 0:09:57.000 --> 0:10:01.960 of course, again the play tribes don't vibe with this 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:04.520 because the people who are selling it don't own it. 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:07.440 So our buddy James is all the way out on 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:10.520 the East coast, so he's pretty much buying this sight unseen. 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:13.960 And as a result, he teams up with a fellow 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:19.320 New Yorker, a wealthy lawyer and investor named Charles Rushmore. 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:23.520 Oh okay, I get it now, Yes, right, I guess 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:24.440 that makes sense. 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:29.960 Yeah, And so he goes, Charlie, look, we have spent 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:31.840 in a bunch of money on this. We gotta get 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:34.280 some boots on the ground, and he goes, very well, 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:38.120 I'll travel out west light out for the territories. So 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:42.719 Charles has the means and the motivation to visit this 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:46.960 land that the Harney peaked In Mining Company has quote 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:50.880 unquote purchased, and over the course of two years he 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:55.200 travels there multiple times. Some sources say three trips, other 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:58.120 sources say four. But it's a long way, you know, 0:10:58.200 --> 0:10:59.520 this is before the interstate. 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:05.400 Yeah, this is not a leisurely trip, not a quick trip, 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:08.680 not a trip you probably want to take unless you're 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:10.920 you know, you've got some good motivation. 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:16.280 And in this case, I guess it's as you said, tin. 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:23.040 There's lots of good tin out there, I suppose. But again, 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:26.320 you know, when you when you see images of this area, 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:29.360 and like us, you've not been there yet, it looks 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:37.760 incredibly majestic, the surrounding area, the Black Hills themselves, it's incredible. 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:42.240 So it must have been cool, I guess to make 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:46.920 that hard trip, though. Is he really just staking it 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:48.840 out to see what what have we purchased? 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:54.720 Yeah, and to get a sense of what well, to 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:59.680 confirm that they're the resources they want are there, right, 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:04.640 because otherwise it's just been a series of correspondencies. Here's 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:08.600 the origin story for the name for the transformation from 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:13.600 six Grandfathers to Rushmore. Apparently, like anybody else, Charlie is 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:18.480 impressed when he sees the natural six Grandfather's site, and 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:22.960 he asked his guide, a non native named Bill Challice, hey, 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:27.079 what's this mountain? And Bill doesn't know, so he, apparently 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:30.800 in a flash of daring to you an inspiration, said 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:34.439 something like, well, it doesn't have a name, mister Rushmore, 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:38.040 so why don't we just name it after you? And 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:42.959 Rushmore said tight, yea, something to that effect. 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:46.520 Yeah, it is really cool to go online to be 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:50.280 able to see a few old photographs of this mountain 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:53.800 before it was carved. Yes, you can see that, and 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:56.319 it is neat because when you look up at it, 0:12:57.080 --> 0:12:59.960 it does the thing clouds do often where your mind 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:03.120 starts to just create shapes, the same thing a rorshach 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:07.400 test ink blot would do, or depending on your lens 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:11.480 and your your background and experience, you're gonna maybe put 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:14.720 some of those lines and shapes together to form something. 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:16.959 So you can imagine someone. 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:21.120 Putting together Oh, I can imagine faces up there, like 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:24.719 huge faces, but it is weird to then look at 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:27.839 how large the faces are compared to these giant mountains. 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:30.319 You know, the faces are kind of small actually when 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:31.319 you look at them from afar. 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:34.640 Yeah, like stone Mountain, which will also show up here. 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:39.199 And that phenomenon we're describing the fancy word for his paradolia. 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:43.440 That's the where you're seeing patterns in clouds. That's one 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:46.840 of my favorite things. And when you know, you see 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:50.280 things that look like faces, maybe on Mars, who knows. 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:54.559 But again you might see something completely different than the 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:55.680 person standing next. 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:57.400 To you, which is yes, I think my favorite part. 0:13:57.880 --> 0:14:02.640 Right, someone says, hey, uh, look at that cloud. Doesn't 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:05.240 that look like a duck? And then the person next 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:09.480 to him says, it's clearly a nineteen eighty seven Subaru. Yeah. 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:10.199 Yeah. 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:14.480 But you can, by describing what you're seeing, get another 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:16.880 person to see what you're seeing, which is again just 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:23.520 using that old noggin and some persuasion techniques and just communicating. 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:26.000 It's weird how we can do that for each other 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:29.160 and to each other, hmm yeah, and with each other. 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:36.240 And so similar to that phenomenon, the name starts spreading 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:40.240 the name Mount Rushmore. The non native locals are the 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:43.120 only ones using it, and they're partially using it because 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:46.200 people you know like patterns, people like having names for things, 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:49.440 and partially because they didn't give a tinker's dam for 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:53.520 the values of the indigenous cultures in the area. It's 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:58.360 not until nineteen thirty that Uncle Sam makes this name 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:02.040 Mount Rushmore a fish, and a lot more happened in 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:06.200 between them. Most notably as referred to, Mount Rushmore became 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:12.840 home to four gigantic sixty foot sculptures of US presidents. 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:17.000 It ignited a new era of conflict between Native peoples 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:21.080 and the US government that continues today, which is weird 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:24.960 because Mount Rushmore is a huge tourist attraction, even now 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:28.600 when tourism in the US is plummeted from domestic and 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:30.000 international sources. 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:33.480 Yeah, it is one of those places that it's fabled 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:35.800 because you read about it as soon as you've got 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:37.680 a textbook in front of you that talks about the 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:40.480 history of the United States, as soon as you're a child. 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:44.400 Mount Rushmore is a thing, and I think you create 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:46.280 a picture of it in your mind from maybe the 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:49.720 pictures in that textbook of what this thing is, and 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:53.360 going out to see it, I want to say, becomes 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:57.080 some kind of I don't know, a journey. You're maybe 0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:00.320 supposed to you feel like you're supposed to take at 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:02.240 some point, kind of like going to the National Mall, 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:05.400 seeing you know, the Washington Monument and Congress and all 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:07.840 that stuff. For the first time, it feels like it's 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:09.680 a pilgrimage you're supposed to do as an. 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:14.240 American, Right, Yeah, it's and that's an echo of the 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:18.840 pilgrimage or spiritual journeys indigenous communities felt for thousands of 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:25.120 years before the United States, so we can understand why. Sorry, 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:27.360 I've got a big picture of Mount Rushmore on one 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:29.720 of these monitors, and I just now I feel like 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:32.040 these three of these four guys are staring at me. 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:35.360 There is one guy's just looking off to a different direction. 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:36.680 I don't know what he's looking at. 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:39.200 It's an interesting choice. 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:42.320 We'll see. It's partially due to the geography. 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:45.080 But that's Lincoln right on the like if you're looking 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:45.960 at it on the far right. 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:49.000 Yeah, that's Lincoln on the far right. On the far left, 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:53.160 we've got George Washington from earlier. Second to left, we've 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:57.520 got Thomas Jefferson, and then in the middle, just looking 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:01.920 in a weirdly intimate way towards is Teddy Roosevelt. 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:07.800 Yes, and somebody, some unknown is meant to be here 0:17:07.880 --> 0:17:09.000 right there. 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:10.200 Right there between them. 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:15.280 So while this is a huge tourist attraction, and for 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:19.440 many patriotic Americans it's seen as a rite of passage 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:23.960 to visit it, it's also a center of controversy and conspiracy. 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:28.439 Apparently Mount Rushmore is home to some secrets. So what 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:31.080 say we pause for a word from our sponsors and 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:32.800 then climb up the mountain. 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:34.680 Let's glide. 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:44.600 Here's where it gets crazy, all right. I can't remember 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:48.360 if we've talked about this guy too often on the podcast. 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:50.320 I know we've mentioned him on some show or another. 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:55.640 But Gutsan Borglum, Gutsan Borglum. 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:58.680 Hmmm, lots of things going on in that name. Yes, 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:01.880 in particular, I'm here borg, very strong borg. 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:06.399 Gutsan. Though, where's this gentleman from. 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:09.720 He is from Idaho, the son of a Danish immigrant. 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:13.880 His full name is John Gutsan de la Mote Borglum. 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:18.480 And what I love about the name Gutsan is maybe 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:21.040 because of the z it feels like you have to 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:24.119 yell it. It feels like you the only way to 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:33.879 say is Gutsan, like Gaston and Gutsan, Gutsan you or 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:37.840 this is going to crack up our girlfriends, by the way, 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:41.199 because they're just randomly hearing one side of this conversation 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:46.480 is where yelling gutsan anyway, yeah, Gutsan. Borglum is super 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:49.840 into a couple of things. One of those is making 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:52.720 enormous sculptures and the other is the ku klux. 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:57.080 Klan oh oh okay. 0:18:57.240 --> 0:19:00.160 Through the twist at the end. He's a networker, he's 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:04.280 an artist, he's a traveler. He studies in Europe. He's 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:06.760 got he's got a really big personality. He makes a 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:10.960 lot of connections and he hops around from you know, 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:13.439 like a year in Spain, a couple of years in Paris, 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:16.680 stop by America, go somewhere else. I'm living in England. 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:21.679 His personal relationships take a toll from the constant travel, 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:26.080 but he does make plenty of very powerful friends and enemies. 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:30.359 He exhibits his art that he's creating all along the way, 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:34.200 and his two most well known works are Mount Rushmore 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:38.520 and Stone Mountain. Now Stone Mountain. I know, Matt, you 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:40.760 and I have been, Dylan, have you been to Stone Mountain. 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:44.159 I've been to the park, but I've never been to 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:57.640 see the sculptures in Confederate actually laser light show, I forgot, yes, 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:02.000 I was going on fire and during the fireworks finale. 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:08.280 I remember. It's weird because a lot of us see 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:12.199 the Stone Mountain laser show in this area when you know, 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:15.280 it's a thing that parents take their children to, right, 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:18.679 so the kids often don't know the entire story. You 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:21.440 just see what, for the time is a really cool 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:25.040 light show with bangers like Devil went down to Georgia, 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:27.040 you know what I mean. And they're passing out the 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:30.680 little light bracelets. They got all these glow and the 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:35.679 dark toys. And during that show you get a big 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:39.800 vague dose of patriotism, but you don't get much of 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:40.520 an education. 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:46.440 Yeah, well, you don't really understand the significance of the 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:49.359 guys that are depicting on horses up there again, a 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:55.000 huge sculpture of these Confederate generals, let's name them, Jefferson, Davis, 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:58.720 Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson and the horses. 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:00.359 Yep. 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:04.400 And I mean it looks very majestic when you see 0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:06.600 it if you just are seeing it as oh, a 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:08.720 carving of humans on horses. 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:11.399 Yeah, and it is cool. 0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:14.480 And then you go, oh, oh wait, what what is this? 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:15.600 Why are we what? 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:19.680 And that's why there have been a lot of moves 0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:25.920 over the decades or proposals to to alter or remove 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:29.040 those carvings. You know, one of I think one of 0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:34.040 our mutual favorites was a petition to replace those Confederate 0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:39.639 leaders with outcast I didn't think what actually happened, but 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:41.200 people did sign the petition. 0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:43.720 That would be nuts. 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:46.439 That would be nuts. It'd be very expensive too, right, 0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:50.680 because the scale is baffling for both of these things. 0:21:51.080 --> 0:21:54.680 When you look at Stone Mountain from far away, you 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:59.960 can appreciate that there definitely is a size at play. 0:21:59.800 --> 0:22:04.520 But I guess the best microcosmic example is have you 0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:07.600 ever actually held a traffic light? They've seen them on 0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:08.119 the ground. 0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:12.720 I have held a very old traffic light that was 0:22:12.760 --> 0:22:16.760 of different dimensions and not as heavy or large. 0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:19.000 Okay, but you know what I'm saying, Like with the 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:22.119 modern traffic lights, when you see them and they're removed 0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:26.080 from wherever they're hanging, once you get closer to them, 0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:28.880 you can see how large they actually are. And that's 0:22:28.920 --> 0:22:33.600 what happens. As you get closer to these sculptures, it 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:36.239 takes a lot of work to make these This is 0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:42.119 not clay after all, And so Borglum is constantly on 0:22:42.359 --> 0:22:48.679 this rush for funding for support for various organizations to 0:22:48.840 --> 0:22:49.600 help them out. 0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:53.600 Oh and that's another thing to keep in mind here. Sometimes, 0:22:53.640 --> 0:22:58.640 and I have done this. You imagine a soul artist 0:22:59.160 --> 0:23:02.399 making a sculpture, right, if you imagine Michelangelo or somebody 0:23:02.400 --> 0:23:05.240 who's just sculpting away at a piece of grantite, a 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:09.000 piece of stone, that is not possible for the size 0:23:09.320 --> 0:23:12.760 of these things. So when we're talking about searching for funding, 0:23:13.000 --> 0:23:16.679 you're talking about teams of people that are working in 0:23:16.720 --> 0:23:20.760 shifts that are you know, procuring dynamite and specialized tools, 0:23:20.840 --> 0:23:24.440 and just it takes a crapload of money to make 0:23:24.480 --> 0:23:25.040 something like this. 0:23:25.640 --> 0:23:28.880 Yeah, you know, like how Hoover didn't build the dam. 0:23:29.280 --> 0:23:31.000 Yes, precisely. 0:23:32.280 --> 0:23:35.720 I love that point because Borglum. Yeah, let us not 0:23:35.880 --> 0:23:39.680 deify the guy or lionize him too much. Borglum has 0:23:39.720 --> 0:23:42.359 the vision. He's making these models, but he is not 0:23:42.800 --> 0:23:47.560 up there by himself with a pickaxe. Yeah, but you can. 0:23:47.640 --> 0:23:47.920 I don't. 0:23:47.960 --> 0:23:51.000 I don't mean, maybe I'm just a dullard in that way, 0:23:51.040 --> 0:23:53.920 but I just you know, especially as a kid. You imagine, Oh, 0:23:54.040 --> 0:23:58.880 that's somebody's sculpture, like somebody did did that rather than 0:23:59.440 --> 0:23:59.960 somebody play. 0:24:00.960 --> 0:24:03.840 Yeah, maybe we should say someone had the vision for it. 0:24:04.560 --> 0:24:07.080 That's but I think that's a really great point, Matt. 0:24:07.160 --> 0:24:12.920 Because this guy has these strange connections across the world, 0:24:13.160 --> 0:24:17.840 and because he has this penchant for enormous problematic sculptures, 0:24:18.119 --> 0:24:21.240 it's not surprising that Borglam has become the subject of 0:24:21.280 --> 0:24:25.720 conspiracy theories. The most well known one directly inspired that 0:24:25.840 --> 0:24:29.679 National Treasure movie. I think we can spoil it. We 0:24:29.880 --> 0:24:34.359 just it's two thousand and seven, right, Yeah, we'll do 0:24:34.400 --> 0:24:38.640 a spoiler warning. Okay, here be spoilers three to one. 0:24:38.840 --> 0:24:41.240 Sorry, Dylan and Matt. 0:24:43.400 --> 0:24:46.359