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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.

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Speaker 2: Our colleague Noel is on an adventure, but will be

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Speaker 2: returning shortly.

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Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer Dylan, the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you

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Speaker 3: are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff

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Speaker 3: they don't want you to know now, Uh, Matt Dylan,

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Speaker 3: Have you guys ever visited the Black Hills or what

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Speaker 3: we call Mount Rushmore today?

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Speaker 4: Nay, I have not, Have you, I have not.

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Speaker 3: It's something that honestly, I've been conflicted about visiting over

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Speaker 3: the decades because you know, there's this ongoing controversy which

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Speaker 3: we'll get into about Mount Rushmore. And when we're talking

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Speaker 3: about Mount Rushmore, really it's a National Park site, but

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Speaker 3: we're usually going to be referring to the gigantic sculpture

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Speaker 3: out there in the Black Hills region of South Dakota.

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Speaker 3: It's one of the most iconic landmarks in all of

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Speaker 3: the United States. You know, recognized internationally right up there

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Speaker 3: with the Statue of Liberty, And every so often since

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Speaker 3: this thing was constructed, a president from one party or

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Speaker 3: another will tacitly start to feel out the vibe and

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Speaker 3: see if they can get their face added onto it.

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Speaker 4: Oh sick. I mean there's room.

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Speaker 2: There's that little nook in between two of the faces

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Speaker 2: where you could clearly put somebody in there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you could, but should you? You know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: It's always recently been funny because there were moves for

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Speaker 3: President Barack Obama to have his face put on there,

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Speaker 3: and they were also people were floating the idea of

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Speaker 3: putting President Donald Trump's face on there, and in both

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Speaker 3: of those cases, well, in the most recent case, the

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Speaker 3: president said, you know a lot of people are saying this, yeah,

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Speaker 3: trying to make it look like it wasn't their idea.

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Speaker 4: Let's go whacky with it.

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Speaker 2: Let's like, let's put prints up there, and then future

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Speaker 2: historians will be like, who was that guy? Yeah, because,

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Speaker 2: as we'll find out later in this episode, there's some

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Speaker 2: documentation about who these guys are for future generations, future extraterrestrials.

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Speaker 4: But maybe we just threw prints or somebody like that

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Speaker 4: up there.

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Speaker 3: You know what, why limit it to human beings? I

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Speaker 3: would like I would like something further inexplicable, like just

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Speaker 3: a huge crew or a wacky meme. Let's let's start

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Speaker 3: making memes in stone, which I guess is how how

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Speaker 3: memes really began.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, that would really make sense for the way things

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Speaker 2: have been going if we just put some kind of

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Speaker 2: stonk meme up there, you know, or whatever, just some

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Speaker 2: kind of and it would make a lot of sense

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Speaker 2: for how things have been going. Just to put some

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Speaker 2: kind of ridiculous internet meme up there. Yeah, we kind

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Speaker 2: of started like that, but end it over here.

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Speaker 3: Classic human right, because we have to remember that one

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Speaker 3: of the oldest instances of writing that's been discovered. Basically,

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Speaker 3: I think this is right. It basically translates to Wagner

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Speaker 3: was here. It's graffiti, So I could I could see that.

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Speaker 3: I could definitely see putting a little more humor in

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Speaker 3: these monuments. Mount Rushmore is mentioned constantly in film and fiction.

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Speaker 3: Are you guys fans of the National Treasure franchise the

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Speaker 3: Nicholas CAGEV Vehicle?

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Speaker 4: I am aware of it.

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Speaker 3: I enjoy it.

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Speaker 5: I've never seen it. I feel like it's a movie night.

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Speaker 3: It might be a movie night. It's definitely one you'll

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Speaker 3: want some popcorn for.

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Speaker 2: Can we do some Dan Brown and National Treasure stuff

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Speaker 2: like in one night?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I think so. I think it's apropos. Get all

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Speaker 3: that Indiana Jones adjacent stuff knocked out. And we also

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Speaker 3: know something for our purposes tonight, Mount Rushmore. Get this, folks,

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Speaker 3: it has a secret. So in tonight's episode we're getting

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Speaker 3: into some weird, ridiculous history of the site. Here are

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Speaker 3: the facts, all right, we'll say it this way. Pardon

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Speaker 3: our pronunciation. Long long before the arrival of the Europeans,

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Speaker 3: the Plains tribes in what we call the Black Hills

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Speaker 3: or Paha Sappa, they revered the area that is now

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Speaker 3: called Mount Rushmore. They called it Tonka si La soakpe Paha,

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Speaker 3: which translates to the six Grandfathers. It's a pretty cool name.

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Speaker 4: Nice.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it refers to I guess some deities in the

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Speaker 2: culture there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, embodiments of the six directions. And I hadn't

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Speaker 3: thought of this idea of six directions. But the way

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Speaker 3: they process it is northeast, southwest and then above and below.

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Speaker 3: Oh yes, yeah, it's a sacred site, and so over millennia,

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Speaker 3: visiting there was often considered a spiritual journey, kind of

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Speaker 3: like taking a pilgrimage. You know, it's not a place

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Speaker 3: where you leave your trash. We also know in eighteen

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Speaker 3: sixty eight, the US government signed a treaty with the Sioux,

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Speaker 3: the Lakota Sioux, in particular, promising the following. They said,

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Speaker 3: all right, you and your community will have exclusive rights

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Speaker 3: across the Black Hills. You'll have the right to use

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Speaker 3: the land you run it. It's up to you. We're

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Speaker 3: going to stay out of your business, including the sacred

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Speaker 3: six Grandfather's site. This is called the eighteen sixty eight

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Speaker 3: Treaty of Fort Laramie. And spoiler, it didn't work out

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Speaker 3: super great Matt when General George Custer, you know that

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Speaker 3: one Custer's last stand guy, when he reached the top

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Speaker 3: of Black Elk Peak in eighteen seventy four during the

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Speaker 3: Black Hills Expedition. The American expansion here triggered a massive

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Speaker 3: resource rush, which also triggered the Great Sioux War of

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Speaker 3: eighteen seventy six. And that this is kind of like

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Speaker 3: a dark version of that children's book. If you give

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Speaker 3: him alse a cookie. Do you remember that one? Oh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: So you give these expansions for sys some gold. It

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Speaker 3: leads to a war, and then that leads just a

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Speaker 3: year later to the US breaking their treaty, their treaty

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Speaker 3: with the native population that is not even a decade old.

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Speaker 3: They just said, nah, forget it. They took control of

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Speaker 3: the land, and then they opened it up to this deluge,

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Speaker 3: this massive influx of settlers and prospectors, who, to the

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Speaker 3: Native community obviously are invaders.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a little bit, a little bit. Just watching a

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Speaker 2: video William shatnher as our head. I think it was

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Speaker 2: on the History Channel, and it was talking about American monuments,

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Speaker 2: and it really kind of sugarcoated some of the Founding

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Speaker 2: Fathers and Founding Forces relationships with like the Iroquois tribe

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Speaker 2: and Lakota Tribe and some of these tribes out here,

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Speaker 2: where you're just like, uh, these obviously aren't the Founding

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Speaker 2: Fathers in eighteen seventy six were well over one hundred

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Speaker 2: years away from that time. But it's still just hearing

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Speaker 2: it talked about how much how much integration there was

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Speaker 2: during the some of the processes to create the United States,

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Speaker 2: like the Iroquois tribe was in the room while they

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Speaker 2: were making doing some of these things, and it painted

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Speaker 2: it as well. It was important for you know, the

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Speaker 2: colonies to have good relationships with the Iroquois and other

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Speaker 2: tribes because fifty percent of their trading was done with

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Speaker 2: these tribes. And yeah, I don't know, just think about

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Speaker 2: it in that way, at least early on and then

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Speaker 2: knowing the rest of history and what was done, and

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Speaker 2: now jumping you know, one hundred years later just to

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Speaker 2: see that, Oh, it just took some golds and resources

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Speaker 2: to start an entire war after everything was pretty great.

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Speaker 3: Right well, after making so many promises right on the look.

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Speaker 3: At the time this treaty came about too before was

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Speaker 3: before it was broken back in eighteen sixty eight. The

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Speaker 3: indigenous people in the area already knew that the United

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Speaker 3: States had a terrible track record with treaties, and so

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Speaker 3: they were continually choosing the path of peace, which is

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Speaker 3: an ethical and noble thing to do, and they continually

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Speaker 3: ran into volkes acting like snakes, just untrustworthy. So one

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Speaker 3: of these people who is very interested in the gold

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Speaker 3: rush in the Black Hills at this time, he's a

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Speaker 3: New York mining man. He's a guy named James Wilson.

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Speaker 3: He has mining interest and he's pretty well to do.

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Speaker 3: And I personally love hearing these kind of things where

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Speaker 3: somebody's doing so well or they're a big time investor,

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Speaker 3: and when you ask them what they do, they don't

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Speaker 3: say investment. They just say, oh, I'm in water, you

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Speaker 3: know what do you mean?

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Speaker 4: Like mostly ten?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he's a ten man, yes, quite literally. Yeah. He

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Speaker 3: founds the Harney Peak ten Mining Company and through this

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Speaker 3: he purchases rights to areas of the Black Hills, which,

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Speaker 3: of course, again the play tribes don't vibe with this

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Speaker 3: because the people who are selling it don't own it.

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Speaker 3: So our buddy James is all the way out on

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Speaker 3: the East coast, so he's pretty much buying this sight unseen.

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Speaker 3: And as a result, he teams up with a fellow

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Speaker 3: New Yorker, a wealthy lawyer and investor named Charles Rushmore.

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Speaker 4: Oh okay, I get it now, Yes, right, I guess

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Speaker 4: that makes sense.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And so he goes, Charlie, look, we have spent

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Speaker 3: in a bunch of money on this. We gotta get

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Speaker 3: some boots on the ground, and he goes, very well,

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Speaker 3: I'll travel out west light out for the territories. So

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Speaker 3: Charles has the means and the motivation to visit this

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Speaker 3: land that the Harney peaked In Mining Company has quote

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Speaker 3: unquote purchased, and over the course of two years he

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Speaker 3: travels there multiple times. Some sources say three trips, other

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Speaker 3: sources say four. But it's a long way, you know,

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Speaker 3: this is before the interstate.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is not a leisurely trip, not a quick trip,

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Speaker 2: not a trip you probably want to take unless you're

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Speaker 2: you know, you've got some good motivation.

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Speaker 4: And in this case, I guess it's as you said, tin.

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Speaker 2: There's lots of good tin out there, I suppose. But again,

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Speaker 2: you know, when you when you see images of this area,

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Speaker 2: and like us, you've not been there yet, it looks

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Speaker 2: incredibly majestic, the surrounding area, the Black Hills themselves, it's incredible.

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Speaker 2: So it must have been cool, I guess to make

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Speaker 2: that hard trip, though. Is he really just staking it

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Speaker 2: out to see what what have we purchased?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and to get a sense of what well, to

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Speaker 3: confirm that they're the resources they want are there, right,

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Speaker 3: because otherwise it's just been a series of correspondencies. Here's

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Speaker 3: the origin story for the name for the transformation from

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Speaker 3: six Grandfathers to Rushmore. Apparently, like anybody else, Charlie is

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Speaker 3: impressed when he sees the natural six Grandfather's site, and

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Speaker 3: he asked his guide, a non native named Bill Challice, hey,

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Speaker 3: what's this mountain? And Bill doesn't know, so he, apparently

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Speaker 3: in a flash of daring to you an inspiration, said

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Speaker 3: something like, well, it doesn't have a name, mister Rushmore,

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Speaker 3: so why don't we just name it after you? And

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Speaker 3: Rushmore said tight, yea, something to that effect.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is really cool to go online to be

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Speaker 2: able to see a few old photographs of this mountain

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Speaker 2: before it was carved. Yes, you can see that, and

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Speaker 2: it is neat because when you look up at it,

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Speaker 2: it does the thing clouds do often where your mind

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Speaker 2: starts to just create shapes, the same thing a rorshach

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Speaker 2: test ink blot would do, or depending on your lens

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Speaker 2: and your your background and experience, you're gonna maybe put

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Speaker 2: some of those lines and shapes together to form something.

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Speaker 4: So you can imagine someone.

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Speaker 2: Putting together Oh, I can imagine faces up there, like

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Speaker 2: huge faces, but it is weird to then look at

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Speaker 2: how large the faces are compared to these giant mountains.

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Speaker 2: You know, the faces are kind of small actually when

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Speaker 2: you look at them from afar.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like stone Mountain, which will also show up here.

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Speaker 3: And that phenomenon we're describing the fancy word for his paradolia.

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Speaker 3: That's the where you're seeing patterns in clouds. That's one

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Speaker 3: of my favorite things. And when you know, you see

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Speaker 3: things that look like faces, maybe on Mars, who knows.

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Speaker 2: But again you might see something completely different than the

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Speaker 2: person standing next.

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Speaker 4: To you, which is yes, I think my favorite part.

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Speaker 3: Right, someone says, hey, uh, look at that cloud. Doesn't

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Speaker 3: that look like a duck? And then the person next

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Speaker 3: to him says, it's clearly a nineteen eighty seven Subaru. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But you can, by describing what you're seeing, get another

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Speaker 2: person to see what you're seeing, which is again just

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Speaker 2: using that old noggin and some persuasion techniques and just communicating.

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Speaker 2: It's weird how we can do that for each other

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Speaker 2: and to each other, hmm yeah, and with each other.

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Speaker 3: And so similar to that phenomenon, the name starts spreading

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Speaker 3: the name Mount Rushmore. The non native locals are the

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Speaker 3: only ones using it, and they're partially using it because

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Speaker 3: people you know like patterns, people like having names for things,

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Speaker 3: and partially because they didn't give a tinker's dam for

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Speaker 3: the values of the indigenous cultures in the area. It's

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Speaker 3: not until nineteen thirty that Uncle Sam makes this name

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Speaker 3: Mount Rushmore a fish, and a lot more happened in

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Speaker 3: between them. Most notably as referred to, Mount Rushmore became

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Speaker 3: home to four gigantic sixty foot sculptures of US presidents.

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Speaker 3: It ignited a new era of conflict between Native peoples

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Speaker 3: and the US government that continues today, which is weird

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Speaker 3: because Mount Rushmore is a huge tourist attraction, even now

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Speaker 3: when tourism in the US is plummeted from domestic and

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Speaker 3: international sources.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is one of those places that it's fabled

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Speaker 2: because you read about it as soon as you've got

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Speaker 2: a textbook in front of you that talks about the

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Speaker 2: history of the United States, as soon as you're a child.

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Speaker 2: Mount Rushmore is a thing, and I think you create

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Speaker 2: a picture of it in your mind from maybe the

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Speaker 2: pictures in that textbook of what this thing is, and

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Speaker 2: going out to see it, I want to say, becomes

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Speaker 2: some kind of I don't know, a journey. You're maybe

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Speaker 2: supposed to you feel like you're supposed to take at

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Speaker 2: some point, kind of like going to the National Mall,

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Speaker 2: seeing you know, the Washington Monument and Congress and all

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Speaker 2: that stuff. For the first time, it feels like it's

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Speaker 2: a pilgrimage you're supposed to do as an.

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Speaker 3: American, Right, Yeah, it's and that's an echo of the

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Speaker 3: pilgrimage or spiritual journeys indigenous communities felt for thousands of

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Speaker 3: years before the United States, so we can understand why. Sorry,

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Speaker 3: I've got a big picture of Mount Rushmore on one

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Speaker 3: of these monitors, and I just now I feel like

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Speaker 3: these three of these four guys are staring at me.

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Speaker 3: There is one guy's just looking off to a different direction.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what he's looking at.

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Speaker 4: It's an interesting choice.

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Speaker 3: We'll see. It's partially due to the geography.

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Speaker 2: But that's Lincoln right on the like if you're looking

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Speaker 2: at it on the far right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's Lincoln on the far right. On the far left,

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Speaker 3: we've got George Washington from earlier. Second to left, we've

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Speaker 3: got Thomas Jefferson, and then in the middle, just looking

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Speaker 3: in a weirdly intimate way towards is Teddy Roosevelt.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and somebody, some unknown is meant to be here

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Speaker 2: right there.

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Speaker 4: Right there between them.

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Speaker 3: So while this is a huge tourist attraction, and for

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Speaker 3: many patriotic Americans it's seen as a rite of passage

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Speaker 3: to visit it, it's also a center of controversy and conspiracy.

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Speaker 3: Apparently Mount Rushmore is home to some secrets. So what

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Speaker 3: say we pause for a word from our sponsors and

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Speaker 3: then climb up the mountain.

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Speaker 4: Let's glide.

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Speaker 3: Here's where it gets crazy, all right. I can't remember

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Speaker 3: if we've talked about this guy too often on the podcast.

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Speaker 3: I know we've mentioned him on some show or another.

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Speaker 3: But Gutsan Borglum, Gutsan Borglum.

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Speaker 2: Hmmm, lots of things going on in that name. Yes,

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Speaker 2: in particular, I'm here borg, very strong borg.

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Speaker 4: Gutsan. Though, where's this gentleman from.

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Speaker 3: He is from Idaho, the son of a Danish immigrant.

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Speaker 3: His full name is John Gutsan de la Mote Borglum.

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Speaker 3: And what I love about the name Gutsan is maybe

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Speaker 3: because of the z it feels like you have to

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Speaker 3: yell it. It feels like you the only way to

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Speaker 3: say is Gutsan, like Gaston and Gutsan, Gutsan you or

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Speaker 3: this is going to crack up our girlfriends, by the way,

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Speaker 3: because they're just randomly hearing one side of this conversation

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Speaker 3: is where yelling gutsan anyway, yeah, Gutsan. Borglum is super

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Speaker 3: into a couple of things. One of those is making

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Speaker 3: enormous sculptures and the other is the ku klux.

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Speaker 4: Klan oh oh okay.

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Speaker 3: Through the twist at the end. He's a networker, he's

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Speaker 3: an artist, he's a traveler. He studies in Europe. He's

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Speaker 3: got he's got a really big personality. He makes a

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Speaker 3: lot of connections and he hops around from you know,

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Speaker 3: like a year in Spain, a couple of years in Paris,

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Speaker 3: stop by America, go somewhere else. I'm living in England.

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Speaker 3: His personal relationships take a toll from the constant travel,

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Speaker 3: but he does make plenty of very powerful friends and enemies.

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Speaker 3: He exhibits his art that he's creating all along the way,

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Speaker 3: and his two most well known works are Mount Rushmore

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Speaker 3: and Stone Mountain. Now Stone Mountain. I know, Matt, you

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Speaker 3: and I have been, Dylan, have you been to Stone Mountain.

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Speaker 5: I've been to the park, but I've never been to

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Speaker 5: see the sculptures in Confederate actually laser light show, I forgot, yes,

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Speaker 5: I was going on fire and during the fireworks finale.

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Speaker 3: I remember. It's weird because a lot of us see

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Speaker 3: the Stone Mountain laser show in this area when you know,

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Speaker 3: it's a thing that parents take their children to, right,

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Speaker 3: so the kids often don't know the entire story. You

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Speaker 3: just see what, for the time is a really cool

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Speaker 3: light show with bangers like Devil went down to Georgia,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean. And they're passing out the

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Speaker 3: little light bracelets. They got all these glow and the

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Speaker 3: dark toys. And during that show you get a big

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Speaker 3: vague dose of patriotism, but you don't get much of

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Speaker 3: an education.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you don't really understand the significance of the

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Speaker 2: guys that are depicting on horses up there again, a

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Speaker 2: huge sculpture of these Confederate generals, let's name them, Jefferson, Davis,

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Speaker 2: Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson and the horses.

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Speaker 4: Yep.

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Speaker 2: And I mean it looks very majestic when you see

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Speaker 2: it if you just are seeing it as oh, a

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Speaker 2: carving of humans on horses.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it is cool.

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Speaker 4: And then you go, oh, oh wait, what what is this?

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Speaker 4: Why are we what?

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Speaker 3: And that's why there have been a lot of moves

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Speaker 3: over the decades or proposals to to alter or remove

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Speaker 3: those carvings. You know, one of I think one of

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Speaker 3: our mutual favorites was a petition to replace those Confederate

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Speaker 3: leaders with outcast I didn't think what actually happened, but

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Speaker 3: people did sign the petition.

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Speaker 4: That would be nuts.

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Speaker 3: That would be nuts. It'd be very expensive too, right,

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Speaker 3: because the scale is baffling for both of these things.

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Speaker 3: When you look at Stone Mountain from far away, you

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Speaker 3: can appreciate that there definitely is a size at play.

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Speaker 3: But I guess the best microcosmic example is have you

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Speaker 3: ever actually held a traffic light? They've seen them on

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Speaker 3: the ground.

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Speaker 2: I have held a very old traffic light that was

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Speaker 2: of different dimensions and not as heavy or large.

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Speaker 3: Okay, but you know what I'm saying, Like with the

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Speaker 3: modern traffic lights, when you see them and they're removed

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Speaker 3: from wherever they're hanging, once you get closer to them,

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Speaker 3: you can see how large they actually are. And that's

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Speaker 3: what happens. As you get closer to these sculptures, it

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Speaker 3: takes a lot of work to make these This is

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Speaker 3: not clay after all, And so Borglum is constantly on

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Speaker 3: this rush for funding for support for various organizations to

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Speaker 3: help them out.

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Speaker 2: Oh and that's another thing to keep in mind here. Sometimes,

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Speaker 2: and I have done this. You imagine a soul artist

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Speaker 2: making a sculpture, right, if you imagine Michelangelo or somebody

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Speaker 2: who's just sculpting away at a piece of grantite, a

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Speaker 2: piece of stone, that is not possible for the size

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Speaker 2: of these things. So when we're talking about searching for funding,

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Speaker 2: you're talking about teams of people that are working in

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Speaker 2: shifts that are you know, procuring dynamite and specialized tools,

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Speaker 2: and just it takes a crapload of money to make

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Speaker 2: something like this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, like how Hoover didn't build the dam.

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Speaker 4: Yes, precisely.

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Speaker 3: I love that point because Borglum. Yeah, let us not

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Speaker 3: deify the guy or lionize him too much. Borglum has

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Speaker 3: the vision. He's making these models, but he is not

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Speaker 3: up there by himself with a pickaxe. Yeah, but you can.

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Speaker 3: I don't.

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Speaker 2: I don't mean, maybe I'm just a dullard in that way,

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Speaker 2: but I just you know, especially as a kid. You imagine, Oh,

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Speaker 2: that's somebody's sculpture, like somebody did did that rather than

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Speaker 2: somebody play.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe we should say someone had the vision for it.

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Speaker 3: That's but I think that's a really great point, Matt.

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Speaker 3: Because this guy has these strange connections across the world,

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Speaker 3: and because he has this penchant for enormous problematic sculptures,

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Speaker 3: it's not surprising that Borglam has become the subject of

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Speaker 3: conspiracy theories. The most well known one directly inspired that

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Speaker 3: National Treasure movie. I think we can spoil it. We

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Speaker 3: just it's two thousand and seven, right, Yeah, we'll do

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Speaker 3: a spoiler warning. Okay, here be spoilers three to one.

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Speaker 4: Sorry, Dylan and Matt.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I mean it's still it's it's a popcorn flick, right,

402
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Speaker 3: it's beat for beat, similar to Indiana Jones right, or

403
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Speaker 3: meets Dan Brown. So there's a treasure hunter named Ben Gates,

404
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Speaker 3: and Nicholas Cage is so famous that whenever somebody describes

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Speaker 3: the movie, they say, oh, Nick Cage is hunting treasure,

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Speaker 3: but his name in the show is Ben Gates. He

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Speaker 3: learns that Calvin Coolidge. I don't want to spoil it

408
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:15,199
Speaker 3: too too much, but Calvin Coolidge commissioned Gutsan Borglum to

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Speaker 3: create the gigantic Mount Rushmore sculpture as a way of

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Speaker 3: hiding evidence of a legendary Native American pre Columbian city

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Speaker 3: of Gold.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 3: What I love about the mcguffin of this, without getting

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Speaker 3: too into it, is the idea of creating an entire

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Speaker 3: creating Mount Rushmore to hide a treasure.

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Speaker 4: It's brilliant, man, it's brilliant.

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Speaker 3: Not the fastest solution, I.

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Speaker 5: Mean, it's a documentary. What's false about any of that.

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Speaker 3: We have to go, guys, we have to go to

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Speaker 3: the Black Hills.

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Speaker 2: I want to. I mean, look, just let's put it

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Speaker 2: out there. From a strategy perspective, if there's a giant

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Speaker 2: monument on the side of a mountain that becomes a

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Speaker 2: tourist attraction and a piece of American fable, American history, sure,

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Speaker 2: then nobody's gonna be checking around Lincoln's head, you know

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Speaker 2: what I'm saying. And nobody's gonna be looking over there.

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Speaker 4: They're just looking at Lincoln's face.

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Speaker 3: I guess. So we're probably not the best sample size

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Speaker 3: because I would be like right in it knows, I

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Speaker 3: would be trying to figure out you know how big

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Speaker 3: this sculpture is, and like, could I set up a

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Speaker 3: little tent here?

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Speaker 4: Well, that's why they have all the security. There's a

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Speaker 4: ton of security there, yes.

435
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, partially because of that controversy and partially because of

436
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 3: very eccentric things like me, who would immediately try to

437
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 3: camp out. You know who else would try to camp

438
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 3: on it? Alex Williams, Oh, yeah, for sure, a million percent.

439
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 3: So the security is there for a reason.

440
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, Dan and his son from What's Inside might try

441
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 2: and do that. Watched your video, guys, good work.

442
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 3: So the answer is, yes, there is a little bit

443
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 3: of truth to the legend, but there's not a secret

444
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 3: complex network of tunnels crisscrossing the interior of the Six Grandfathers.

445
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 3: But there is a chamber in the mountain that was,

446
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 3: once upon a time kind of a secret to the public.

447
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 3: It is right behind the head of Abraham Lincoln.

448
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 2: Super cool, Yes, should we state that? The National Park

449
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,679
Speaker 2: Service says it's a not so secret place, right, And

450
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 2: yet I was unaware of it until we began researching

451
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:41,160
Speaker 2: this episode, So I don't know, it seems pretty secret.

452
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 3: It was secret for a while, not necessarily due to malevolence,

453
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,400
Speaker 3: but more due to the well, yeah, let's do it.

454
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 3: So here's the truth of it. Like so many other

455
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,640
Speaker 3: works of a grand scope. Think of the Washington Monument.

456
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 3: That's a great example. Borglum's original plans for Rushmore were

457
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 3: way way more grandiose than what actually ended up being built.

458
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 3: And this guy was very much a consummate salesman. He

459
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,919
Speaker 3: was always pitching stuff, and for example, he wanted you

460
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 3: can see pictures of this on Reddit and Snopes or wherever.

461
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 3: In his original vision, the presidents were even bigger. They

462
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 3: were depicted from the waist up, not just the heads.

463
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 3: And then he said, guys, this isn't just a sculpture,

464
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 3: you know, when he's asking for more money. This is

465
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 3: going to be a National Archives here in the mountains,

466
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 3: a second National Archives. There's going to be this opulent

467
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 3: stairway behind the presidents. It ushers visitors up to a

468
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 3: hall of records. And they said hall of records, and

469
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 3: he said, no, say it so I can hear the

470
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 3: Capitol letters. It was a really big deal to him.

471
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 3: This was like, out of all the stuff that he

472
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 3: was passionate about for this project, this vaunted Hall of

473
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 3: Records was to him one of the most important parts

474
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 3: of the whole shebang. It was, it was why he

475
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 3: woke up to do it?

476
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 2: Well, it's it makes so much sense when we're talking

477
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 2: about a grandiose vision. Will We'll give you the quote,

478
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 2: a really cool quote at the end of the show here.

479
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 2: But this concept that these stones, when we go about

480
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 2: carving them right in depictions, whether it's from the waist

481
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 2: up or the neck up or whatever, they're going to

482
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 2: be around for a long long time. And without putting

483
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 2: some kind of explanation. People in forty thousand years, fifty

484
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 2: thousand years, even if it's not people someone else coming

485
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 2: isn't going to know what the heck this is, who

486
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 2: these people are, why this was done. It'll be like

487
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 2: the Sphinx, where we're all going, I guess it's this, right,

488
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 2: Why not put something in his mind at least, Why

489
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 2: not put something that at least gives some context if

490
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 2: that group can figure out how to read.

491
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 3: English, right, Yeah, that's a great way to put it.

492
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 3: We know he's inspired two things. First, we know he

493
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 3: was massively inspired by the Pyramids and the stories of

494
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 3: the Colossus of Rhodes. Secondly, it would have been epically

495
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 3: hilarious if instead of waist up. He was like, it's

496
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 3: the president's, but waist down, and you have to guess

497
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 3: which president based on their crotches.

498
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 4: It's just their shoes.

499
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 3: I gotta stop staring at this picture of these guys.

500
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 3: It's freaking me out anyway. So this idea, it's a

501
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 3: man made cave. It's going to be eight thousand square

502
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 3: feet or little more than seven hundred and forty square meters.

503
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 3: And he talks about this so frequently, you guys, and

504
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 3: every time he talks about it, the plan seems to

505
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 3: grow more elaborate. I'd love to throw to our Alma matter,

506
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 3: our pals at how stuff works, who have a great

507
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 3: primary source description of his final articulation of what he

508
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 3: wants the Hall of Records to be.

509
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 2: The Hall of Records, as he called it, would have

510
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 2: a twenty foot entrance with glass doors and a bronze

511
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 2: eagle stretching fifteen feet from talons to crest above it,

512
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 2: along with the motto America marches on to provide access

513
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 2: to the hall. Borgland plan to carve an eight hundred

514
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 2: foot granite stairway up the backside of Mount Rushmore.

515
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 3: I love. I was into it until they said, backside up,

516
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 3: the backside up, the backside as well, you know what

517
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 3: I mean.

518
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 2: Can we pause here just for a moment. Just you

519
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 2: mentioned Washington Monument and how there are other plans for it.

520
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 2: I think maybe a lot of people don't know the

521
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 2: full story of that. If I'm recalling our previous videos

522
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 2: and discussions of that. The huge singular obelisk that is

523
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 2: now the Washington Monument that we've come to love and

524
00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 2: know it originally had this really cool other part to it, right.

525
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, the first Washington well, there were two Washington monuments, right,

526
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 3: and the first was it looks kind of like a

527
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 3: stone milk bottle. It's not super duper impressive, but it's

528
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 3: still you know, it's still phallic, which I guess is

529
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 3: the point.

530
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 2: But yeah, but the one they got approved, right, had a.

531
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 3: Rotunda, yeah, rotunda, and it had this elaborate it was

532
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 3: gonna have this elaborate sculpture atop it with Washington and

533
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 3: the boys riding hard for freedom. It was gonna have

534
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 3: all kinds of cool stuff on the inside, and then

535
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 3: some engravings and artifacts and whatnot, and then it ended

536
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 3: up being a monument, you know, just the obelisk.

537
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was gonna be.

538
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 2: Wasn't it going to be like a hall of the

539
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 2: Founding Father's kind of thing where it's much smaller sculptures

540
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 2: than Mount Rushmore's, but just like actual sculptures of the

541
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 2: Founding Fathers around that thing. But like, what do we

542
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 2: when we do the episode? We compared it to a pantheon.

543
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 3: I think, yes, yeah, it's because it was very much

544
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 3: descended from classical Greek architecture, so they wanted to echo

545
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 3: the kind of things you would see at an old

546
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 3: Grecian temple.

547
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 4: But of course, of war came along while all the.

548
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 2: Money was going into this monument, and they said, maybe

549
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 2: we'll put a pause on that.

550
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, before we make a thing. I don't mean sounding

551
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 3: a jerk about this, but they rightly said, before we

552
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 3: make a thing kissing our countries, but let's save the

553
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 3: actual country.

554
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 4: Cool.

555
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 3: Cool, cool, you know what I mean. It's like, why

556
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 3: would you make T shirts for the band until before

557
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 3: you make a song?

558
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 4: Anyway, that's probably a good idea.

559
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 3: We love making T shirt So anyway, Borglain wanted this hall,

560
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 3: as you can tell from the description, folks, Borla wanted

561
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 3: this hall to really blow people away. And I love

562
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 3: your point about making a legacy, something set in stone

563
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:09,399
Speaker 3: so that thousands of years after its construction people can

564
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 3: have that osomandious moment, right.

565
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, didn't he want to have the documents, like

566
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:20,760
Speaker 2: the Founding Documents, Constitution, things like that, actually etched into

567
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 2: the stone there, or at least to be a repository

568
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 2: to keep them there.

569
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 4: Yes, the original versions.

570
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 3: He wanted original versions. He would accept early replicas of

571
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 3: things like it's tough to get a hold of the Constitution,

572
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 3: so he'd need an early replica of that. He wanted

573
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:42,720
Speaker 3: smaller bust of various famous Americans. And this was happening.

574
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 3: His ideation about this was happening when they were still

575
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 3: trying to figure out what faces they would put on

576
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,319
Speaker 3: the monument. There were a lot of things floated, not

577
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 3: all of them were presidents. Saka Juweya was a pitch,

578
00:34:55,960 --> 00:35:01,839
Speaker 3: as was Lewis and Clark, and they and I guess

579
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 3: maybe Coolidge at some point. Anyway, they landed on these

580
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 3: four presidents, and they took all the people that they

581
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 3: considered important but not you know, mountain face important. They

582
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 3: would make little bust of them and put them in

583
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 3: the Hall of Records along with a bunch of exhibits

584
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:23,319
Speaker 3: that were showcasing the industrial, artistic, and scientific breakthroughs of

585
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 3: people from the US and US history because Borglum wanted to,

586
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 3: at least from his statements that we have, he wanted

587
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 3: to create art and legacies that were thoroughly American and

588
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 3: he was not interested in the opinions of the Native people. Ah,

589
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,959
Speaker 3: because America meant a very certain thing to him.

590
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder Frederick Douglass was on that short list

591
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 2: of people to put in there.

592
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 3: I from what we know about Borglum, Yeah, if he

593
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 3: was on the list, Yeah, I don't think Borgolam put

594
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 3: them there.

595
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 4: Just one of the most important figures. Whatever.

596
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:06,439
Speaker 3: It's fine, sure, sure, Okay, So he's super in love

597
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:10,360
Speaker 3: with this idea. We all know how collaboration and envisioning

598
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 3: stuff works, and especially if you're working on a big

599
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 3: project with a group, a lot of people fall in

600
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 3: love with like their one thing, their pet thing, and

601
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 3: for him, the pet thing is the Hall of Records.

602
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 3: Construction on Rushmore begins on October fourth, nineteen twenty seven,

603
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 3: and it takes fourteen years to complete. It concludes on

604
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 3: October thirty first, nineteen forty one. There are a lot

605
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,919
Speaker 3: of obstacles, a lot of setbacks funding, of course, geology,

606
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 3: the sheer scope of the thing, and as as you

607
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 3: foreshadowed so beautifully, Matt, war, World War two kind of

608
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 3: complicates things. Yeah, yeah, and fourteen years isn't that bad

609
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 3: for the size of these sculptures?

610
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, fourteen years. Come on, when you really think about

611
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,879
Speaker 2: the amount, like the way it was done. You can

612
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 2: go to a couple of different videos that you can

613
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,839
Speaker 2: actually see, like inside where cameras are allowed to go

614
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 2: inside the Hall of Records or what what.

615
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 4: Is the Hall of what would.

616
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 2: Have been the Hall of Records, right, And you can

617
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 2: look at the boreholes. There are just so many of

618
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 2: them where you know, you'd honeycomb these giant pieces of

619
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 2: granite as deep as these drills could go and then

620
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 2: stuff them full of dynamite and blast them out. And

621
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 2: just how long that took and how dangerous that was

622
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 2: to do? Oh yeah, you can imagine that, you know,

623
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 2: fourteen years not too.

624
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 3: Shabby, not too shabby. No, And you can look at

625
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:50,320
Speaker 3: other similar projects to get a sense of how great

626
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 3: fourteen years actually is for something of this size. Let's

627
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 3: go to nineteen thirty eight, though, all right, the construction

628
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,319
Speaker 3: has been going on for more than a decade. People

629
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 3: are getting a little antsy, but Gutsal is not giving

630
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:09,320
Speaker 3: up on the dream of this this interior thing going

631
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 3: quote up the backside of I'm sorry of the monument. So,

632
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 3: like you're saying, Matt, they blast out a seventy foot

633
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:24,359
Speaker 3: tunnel and things are looking pretty good, right the boreholes

634
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 3: you can see similar similar techniques used when roads are

635
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 3: being carved through mountains in Appalachia. You know, you can

636
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,239
Speaker 3: drive through an area and you can look at the

637
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 3: rock face and you'll literally see those holes you're describing

638
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 3: where they had to blow out chunks of the of

639
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 3: the rock.

640
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:44,400
Speaker 2: You can also see it in a lot of mines,

641
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 2: especially if you're up in North Georgia and places along

642
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 2: Appalachian mountains, Like when you go down in there, you

643
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 2: see where there were huge mining operations. Hey, like the

644
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,720
Speaker 2: like maybe the tin mining those going out there where

645
00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 2: it's so such a dangerous concept of using fire for

646
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 2: light or you know, at some point electricity that's run

647
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 2: all the way through a mine to then.

648
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 4: Put all this really.

649
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 2: Volatile chemical stuff dynamite into those holes and then just

650
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 2: try and explode it without blowing yourself and everyone else up,

651
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 2: or you know, caving everyone.

652
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 3: In asphyxiating, hoping above all that you've got the timing

653
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,439
Speaker 3: right and the support beams are having a good day

654
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 3: because you're.

655
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 4: Literally spooling out the fuse.

656
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 3: Yourself exactly and you're counting back. Oh man, but this

657
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 3: is you know, it's why you say that. One thing

658
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:46,439
Speaker 3: that I think we've all visited in the past is, oh,

659
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 3: what is it in Chattanoogads, Not Rock City. It's the

660
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 3: underground waterfall.

661
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 4: Ruby Ruby, Ruby Falls.

662
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 3: Baby, Yeah, Ruby Falls is getting a little stuck up

663
00:39:57,640 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 3: for me. Guys. Last time we went up there with

664
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 3: a we learned you have to have reservations for your tickets.

665
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 4: Now, Oh, it's so crowded.

666
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 3: I thought it was one of those things where you

667
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 3: could just go up and say, take me to the cave.

668
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 3: But the I'm mentioning that because going underground, even in

669
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 3: a tourist attraction that's very safe, gives you a sense

670
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 3: of the claustrophobia and the dangerous conditions in which these

671
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 3: these mines are made. It also be really cool to

672
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 3: hear from you, fellow conspiracy realist, about abandoned mines in

673
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,479
Speaker 3: your neck of the woods. I'm thinking especially out west

674
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 3: in the United States, the odds are pretty high that

675
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,879
Speaker 3: several minds have been lost to history. It'd be cool

676
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 3: to find them.

677
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you find a shaft. Accidentally, that's the worst a.

678
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 3: Mind shaft, because those go down. I guess all minds

679
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 3: go down.

680
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 2: But yeah, I can't get the picture out of my mind.

681
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:56,240
Speaker 4: Or maybe maybe it's just the phrase.

682
00:40:56,400 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 2: It's echoing this concept of Gutsan's never ending pursuit to

683
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 2: penetrate the backside of the monument.

684
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 3: I love it. Yeah, I hope that's the phrase. He

685
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 3: keeps using. Were the stairs and he goes, I'm glad

686
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 3: you asked all right up the backside, Like, oh, do

687
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 3: you not want to have maybe a nicer entrance in

688
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:26,280
Speaker 3: the front. He's like, no backside or nothing. So it's crazy.

689
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 3: We're allowed to vote. Guys.

690
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 2: Hey, don't sleep on the Consolidated gold Mine in Delanaga.

691
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:34,919
Speaker 4: That's another great place.

692
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,239
Speaker 3: I love. I like that one too. That's a lot

693
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 3: of fun for adults and kids alike. Did you have

694
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 3: you been there recently? Do the panting thing? Do they

695
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 3: still do that? Yeah?

696
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 4: They still do panning thing.

697
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 2: The most interesting thing to me is that it's a

698
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 2: mine that's still filled with gold. There are there's a

699
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 2: ton of gold in that mine, but nobody's allowed to

700
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:56,879
Speaker 2: do any work there or pull any of the gold out,

701
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 2: which is interesting.

702
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 3: I remember reading that. Can you remind me why aren't they?

703
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 3: Is it because it's a historical site or is it

704
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:04,880
Speaker 3: too expensive?

705
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 2: I can't remember exactly, but there's a great spiel the kids.

706
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 2: I got to take the kids up there, and they

707
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,320
Speaker 2: just had a lot of fun learning about the history

708
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 2: of it and actually seeing like veins of gold.

709
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's neat.

710
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know, shout out to every kid who

711
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 3: is that's another sort of Georgia Right of Passage or

712
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:28,359
Speaker 3: Atlanta area right of passage. Shout out to every kid

713
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 3: who's been there, because I know we all thought at

714
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:36,399
Speaker 3: some point it'll be your lucky day. Right, I'm gonna

715
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 3: be the kid who pulls out a huge nugget of gold.

716
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:41,760
Speaker 4: Yep.

717
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 3: Oh man, Now I want to go back anyway, all right,

718
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,839
Speaker 3: So thieves a look at golden for our pal Borglum.

719
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 3: They blast out that tunnel. But in July of the

720
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 3: very next year, in nineteen thirty nine, Congress says, come on,

721
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 3: my god, this is taking forever. This is so non

722
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 3: falcon of you, non falcon Can you just focus on

723
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 3: the actual sculpture? And Borglum reluctantly says, we'll put a

724
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 3: pin in it, and that's what we'll do, with a

725
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 3: brief pause for a word from our sponsors. All right, So, yes,

726
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:30,280
Speaker 3: we verified there is a chamber. Secret is up for debate.

727
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 3: It's not really secret now, and it's not some super

728
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:41,320
Speaker 3: duper ancient civilization thing. It's not a crazy opulent hideaway

729
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 3: or doomsday bunker for the well to do. It's really

730
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 3: a remnant of a big dream gone awry, was languishing

731
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 3: in obscurity. It was a whole yeah, technically right, but

732
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 3: it was an empty one or no records, no public acknowledgment. Borglum,

733
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 3: as history shows never saw Rushmore completed because he passed

734
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 3: away in nineteen forty one.

735
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was cool because his family got to

736
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,320
Speaker 2: take up the mantle a little bit and his son

737
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:15,839
Speaker 2: was named Lincoln little hey, Lincoln, come on, that's pretty odd.

738
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 4: Wait ooh, it's interesting. They want to have the Hall

739
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 4: of Records right by Lincoln's head.

740
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:23,319
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, names his son Lincoln, all right, what's going

741
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 2: on with his interest in Lincoln.

742
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 4: Okay, we need to know more, but it is really

743
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 4: cool that it.

744
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 2: Went to his family because you can see old archival

745
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 2: images and some that's not that old actually, where it's

746
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 2: the family saying, hey, we need to get this thing done.

747
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 4: We need to finish this.

748
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 2: This was his vision. We can do it. We just

749
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:47,840
Speaker 2: need the funding exactly.

750
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, And unfortunately, tragedy at this point comes in waves,

751
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 3: and later that same year, nineteen forty one, the funding

752
00:44:56,280 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 3: for Rushmore to your point runs dry. Congress is worried

753
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 3: about a Second World War, so they refused to throw

754
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 3: more money at the construction, the problems of the construction,

755
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 3: and over the next several decades, like you were saying,

756
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 3: Borglum's Estate campaigns to get this sculpture finished. And at

757
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 3: the same time, concurrently, the site is attracting more and

758
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:26,320
Speaker 3: more tourists and it's growing in popularity despite the ongoing

759
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 3: controversy surrounding Native American rights. So if it hadn't become

760
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:37,840
Speaker 3: a very popular tourist attraction, then the funding probably wouldn't

761
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 3: have arrived, at least not the amount that they needed.

762
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 3: So Borglum's Estate was eventually able to say not just say, hey,

763
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 3: this was important to our patriarch. They were able to

764
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:53,320
Speaker 3: say this is important to America.

765
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, now we can get it done. Now we can

766
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 2: get it done. So the National Park Service, which is

767
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 2: so cool. I mean, we shout them out every time

768
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 2: we talk about anything that has to do with this,

769
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:08,719
Speaker 2: and you know, they've had a lot of their fund

770
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 2: and cut and a lot of problems going on right now.

771
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 2: But the human beings, and I think more importantly, the

772
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 2: whatever it is inside somebody that says I'm gonna work

773
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 2: for the National Park Service and I'm gonna do this

774
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 2: thing and provide basically history lessons and nature experiences to

775
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 2: other human beings. That's pretty cool. That's a I don't know,

776
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:35,320
Speaker 2: that's a neat pursuit.

777
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 3: Yeah. I love all the specific jobs and roles in

778
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:43,279
Speaker 3: the Park Service. Sometimes I'll go into a rabbit hole

779
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 3: of just watching the videos of the fire watchers. It

780
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:48,839
Speaker 3: seems like such an awesome life.

781
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 4: Well all of it is.

782
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:52,799
Speaker 2: And you go to any of these sites and you

783
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:54,879
Speaker 2: just talk to the people that are there every day

784
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 2: that are just running it, and nature preserves people running

785
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 2: all kinds of stuff like that. Just awesome humans good. Seriously,

786
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:04,839
Speaker 2: if you do that work, good on you.

787
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 3: Yes, thank you very much, and we want to hang out. Also. Yes,

788
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 3: we are unrepentant fanboys of the Park Service. And it's

789
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 3: something I think a lot of us here in the

790
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 3: United States take for granted. They're these vast swaths of

791
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 3: just absolute natural beauty. And yeah, it can be inconvenient

792
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 3: to get out to some of those places, but we

793
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 3: promise it's worth it, especially while they're still around. As

794
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 3: depressing as that is to say.

795
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:39,439
Speaker 2: Well, especially if you're even remotely going to somewhere that's

796
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 2: near one, just make a day of it.

797
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:47,399
Speaker 3: I love it. And here's what the MPs does. At

798
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 3: this point in the story, the Borglum family. It's getting

799
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 3: tougher for us to keep saying Borglam. They get their

800
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 3: wish in nineteen ninety eight, but they don't get it

801
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 3: necessary the way that their patriarch wanted. The Park Service says,

802
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 3: all right, we're gonna do our best to do something.

803
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,400
Speaker 3: We don't have the funding, No are the other resources

804
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 3: to build this gigantic hall. You might have to forget

805
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 3: about the bronze egle for now, but we're gonna get

806
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 3: these sixteen enamel porcelain tablets, and these tablets have information

807
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:28,239
Speaker 3: on the president, the various US presidents, information on the Constitution,

808
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 3: the Bill of Rights, all the hits, and then it'll

809
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 3: have an explanation of how Mount Rushmore was constructed. And

810
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 3: we're gonna put it in a big box made out

811
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 3: of teak, and the family goes okay, and you go, no, no, no,

812
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 3: we're not done. We're gonna take that box and we're

813
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:48,279
Speaker 3: gonna put it in another box, and that one's gonna

814
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 3: be titanium, and they're like, okay, and then they say

815
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:56,319
Speaker 3: and then we're gonna take that that box with the

816
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 3: box inside of it, and we're going to drill a

817
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 3: hole in the floor of what would have been the

818
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 3: Hall of Records, and then we're gonna put a granite

819
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 3: capstone on top of that. And the family's like, so

820
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 3: the stuff will be there, but people can't read it

821
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:13,880
Speaker 3: or see it.

822
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:17,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's not about that, man, It's not about

823
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 2: people going there and reading the stuff. You can go

824
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:23,359
Speaker 2: down to the visitor center down more Black Mount Center.

825
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 2: You can learn about all that. This what we're doing

826
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 2: here is for fifty thousand years from now, is for

827
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty thousand years from now, because and

828
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaker 2: it's so brilliant, that teak box.

829
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:36,879
Speaker 4: You can see videos of it. It's gorgeous.

830
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 2: It is a gorgeous wooden piece of art, and then

831
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 2: these huge you know, it's it's tough to even imagine.

832
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:45,399
Speaker 2: I couldn't see it on my head until I watch

833
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 2: video of them actually placing it into the ground.

834
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 4: Yeah.

835
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 2: The box is really I'm trying to imagine something to

836
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:55,800
Speaker 2: compare it to, like if you're imagine a packing box

837
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 2: or something that you may have received, and I can't

838
00:49:58,160 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 2: think of something that'll be universal enough to just.

839
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:03,320
Speaker 3: Like in ikea flat pack box maybe.

840
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:07,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, So if you imagine putting one

841
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:10,160
Speaker 2: end of that deep down into the earth, and then

842
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 2: imagine putting these large tablets, sliding them into that very slowly,

843
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:16,360
Speaker 2: long ways.

844
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 4: It was really cool to watch.

845
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 2: Them actually do it and to see how it's situated

846
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 2: under that capstone. I just didn't in my head. I

847
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 2: didn't see it that way when I saw a capstone,

848
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:29,359
Speaker 2: not until I saw them putting it in.

849
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, Because when we hear the word box, we're

850
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 3: all kind of you're naturally going to think of something square, right,

851
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:40,319
Speaker 3: and this is not the case. So if we're back

852
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:45,400
Speaker 3: of our hypothetical pitch meeting with the Borglum family, they're saying,

853
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 3: they're still saying, nobody know what this is. You put

854
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:51,440
Speaker 3: it in there, but you can't read it, And they go, ah,

855
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 3: but wait, we will put one of your old man's

856
00:50:56,280 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 3: quotes right on that granite capstone. Objectively decades later, now

857
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:03,720
Speaker 3: we can say it is a very cool quotation.

858
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's it's inspiring, and it makes the whole

859
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 2: thing makes sense. It makes the vision makes sense that

860
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:15,719
Speaker 2: Borglum had originally ben why don't you hit us with it.

861
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:19,680
Speaker 3: Let us place there, carved high as close to heaven

862
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 3: as we can, the words of our leaders, their faces,

863
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:27,359
Speaker 3: to show posterity what manner of men they were. Then

864
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 3: breathe a prayer that these records will endure until the

865
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 3: wind and rain alone shall.

866
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:36,920
Speaker 4: Wear them away. It's poetic, bro, it's poetic.

867
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:40,959
Speaker 3: He's very problematic person. Yeah again, like a huge fan

868
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:45,320
Speaker 3: of the ku Klux Klan. So I've just like we

869
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:49,760
Speaker 3: got to mitigate the poetry here. It's objectively a cool quote.

870
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 3: Bad people say cool things all the time.

871
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that I just wanted to remark on the

872
00:51:54,960 --> 00:52:00,080
Speaker 2: complexity of each each of us as an individual. And

873
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 2: it's fascinating that you can have something like that, just

874
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 2: a thought like that, build something like that, or envision

875
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 2: something like that, and then also hold beliefs that are

876
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 2: just so contrary to the bigger picture things that he's

877
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 2: making monuments for.

878
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:21,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, and also being closely affiliated with the Klan while

879
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 3: clearly of loving Abraham Lincoln. That's another contradiction. And you know, look,

880
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 3: members of the Borglombs state and family are live today

881
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:34,760
Speaker 3: and maybe listening to this show, and we're being honest

882
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:38,799
Speaker 3: about the history of a complex character. But we're not

883
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 3: in any way, I think, denigrating the ambition there. You know,

884
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 3: we just have to acknowledge that imperfect people can make

885
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:52,399
Speaker 3: amazing things, and that Mount Rushmore, love it or hate it,

886
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 3: is still incredibly controversial in the Native community. I mean,

887
00:52:56,600 --> 00:53:00,399
Speaker 3: there is a chamber hidden in Rushmore. It's not really

888
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:03,719
Speaker 3: a secret now. It's definitely not what Good saw and envisioned,

889
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:07,279
Speaker 3: and there have been all these plans and propositions for

890
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:12,400
Speaker 3: adding to it or erasing it, as some Native groups

891
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,360
Speaker 3: would prefer. Tell you what. I don't know, if we

892
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 3: have time, there is one funny uh one funny Borglam story.

893
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 3: We collected it here at the bottom. I can't. I

894
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:26,600
Speaker 3: think we talked about a little bit on ridiculous history,

895
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 3: but we said he's a big salesman, right. He sabotaged

896
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:35,439
Speaker 3: Calvin Coolidge on his vacation to kind of trick him

897
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 3: into going to a dedication ceremony for Mount Rushmore. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

898
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 3: He said. He was thinking, you know, if I can

899
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:50,440
Speaker 3: get a presidential visit, I'll get so much publicity. We

900
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 3: know the President's going to go to the Black Hills

901
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:57,799
Speaker 3: this summer, and Borglam said he was going to hold

902
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:01,680
Speaker 3: a dedication ceremony at that same time. Never mind that

903
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:04,800
Speaker 3: he had already had a dedication ceremony back in nineteen

904
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:10,000
Speaker 3: twenty five. That doesn't matter. So he scheduled the event before.

905
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:12,920
Speaker 3: He asked Coolidge if he could make it, because it

906
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:16,200
Speaker 3: didn't occur to him that the president would be doing

907
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 3: other stuff. And he had this idea where he was

908
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:25,319
Speaker 3: going to hire a pilot to fly him over the

909
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:31,040
Speaker 3: lodge where Coolidge was staying and then throw a big

910
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 3: a bunch of flowers or a big wreath and say

911
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 3: greed aids for about Rushmore it's about Coolidge. It did work,

912
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 3: by the way, eventually he I guess he badgered Coolidge

913
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 3: into going to the dedication ceremony. But the road to

914
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 3: Rushmore was really muddy and rough. On the day of

915
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:55,920
Speaker 3: the ceremony, the cars got stuck, so Coolidge had to

916
00:54:56,000 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 3: ride up there on horseback in his president business suit,

917
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:05,440
Speaker 3: and everybody went crazy because they thought it was on purpose.

918
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:10,759
Speaker 3: So sometimes Borglum's highly ambitious schemes would work out.

919
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:17,160
Speaker 2: So he attacked the president with flowers he had.

920
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:23,799
Speaker 3: He didn't see it as attacking, Okay, he thought it

921
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:28,359
Speaker 3: would be you know, dashing, maybe a bit dally esque,

922
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 3: very American, right, using aviation. He wanted to make an impression,

923
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 3: and he did on Coolidge as well as on the

924
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:38,320
Speaker 3: six Grandfathers.

925
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:42,399
Speaker 2: I am glad that some of the protections that are

926
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:44,719
Speaker 2: in place now weren't in place then, because he would

927
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:46,400
Speaker 2: have been shot out of the sky.

928
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:50,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I know we're looking a little into the security.

929
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:54,480
Speaker 3: Is it tighter every year or are we talking like

930
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 3: drone coverage or what are we talking?

931
00:55:57,239 --> 00:55:58,239
Speaker 4: Well, I don't, I just know.

932
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:02,920
Speaker 2: Look at this point, if you had you know, a

933
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 2: small plane coming at any president, you know from I

934
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:09,640
Speaker 2: don't know nineteen eighty.

935
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:13,279
Speaker 4: Four on Oh yeah, there would have been issues. There

936
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 4: would have been issues with that plane.

937
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:19,719
Speaker 3: One hundred and if you survived that encounter and you

938
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 3: were app which probably wouldn't. If you survived that encounter,

939
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:26,839
Speaker 3: then they would not be amused if you said, well,

940
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:29,319
Speaker 3: I'm just I'm a little scamp. You know, I'm just

941
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:29,879
Speaker 3: trying to get.

942
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:31,719
Speaker 4: Him to come to my dedication ceremony.

943
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 3: I want to see if he can go to the party,

944
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 3: you guys can come too. I don't think that works

945
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:41,279
Speaker 3: in court, your honor. I plead that the party was

946
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 3: dope and that you can come to That's a weird

947
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 3: nolo contendre. So we're gonna leave it here for now.

948
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:54,040
Speaker 3: I think we've got so much more weird stuff about Borglum,

949
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 3: who I think is a character that fascinates all three

950
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:59,319
Speaker 3: of us and hopefully you as well. We want to

951
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:02,480
Speaker 3: know your opinions, folks. If you visited the side, if

952
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 3: you lived in the area, how do you feel when

953
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 3: you see it? What would you like done with the

954
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:09,719
Speaker 3: six grandfathers? You can tell us your thoughts. We can't

955
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:12,399
Speaker 3: wait to hear from you. You can find us online

956
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:16,439
Speaker 3: YouTube all the social media, should thou sip You can

957
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:17,760
Speaker 3: also give us a phone call.

958
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:21,920
Speaker 4: Yes you can, but before I tell you the phone number.

959
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:25,560
Speaker 2: I'm looking at a picture of Gutsan Borglum right now, Ben,

960
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 2: and you know what I'm seeing. Only two similarities, But

961
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 2: there are two similarities between you and him. He's got

962
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 2: an epic hat like you have right now, and an

963
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:36,520
Speaker 2: even more epic mustache.

964
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:41,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's a wild one.

965
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:43,960
Speaker 4: That's all I'm saying. All right.

966
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 2: Our number is one eight three three std WYTK. When

967
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 2: you call in, give yourself a cool nickname and let

968
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:51,520
Speaker 2: us know if we can use your name and message

969
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:54,200
Speaker 2: on the air. If you got more to say, they

970
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:56,200
Speaker 2: can fit in the three minute voicemail. If you've got links,

971
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 2: you got anything at all you want to write out,

972
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 2: why not instead send us a good old fashioned email.

973
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:04,800
Speaker 3: We are the entities that read each piece of correspondence

974
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 3: we receive. Be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the void

975
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 3: writes back conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

976
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:32,320
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

977
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:36,959
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

978
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:40,280
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,