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Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef and best

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Speaker 1: start changing it with the beck Del Cast. Hello, and

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Speaker 1: welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Caitlin Darante.

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Speaker 1: My name is Jamie Loftus, and we talk about the

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Speaker 1: portrayal of women in movies on our podcast. Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: do every week, every freaking week. How many weeks? Now?

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Speaker 1: So many? I'm like coming into this episode worried, how come?

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Speaker 1: Because we're in a genre that I hate, and so

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Speaker 1: I'm skewed. I see, we're in my least favorite genre.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm sorry, real negat Well, um, we're in I

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Speaker 1: would say, my favorite genre. So can we even be friends? No?

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Speaker 1: After this? No? No, But but we should be because

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Speaker 1: this is our I mean, I think, our our our

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Speaker 1: best director and have one very big Jim Cameron joint

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Speaker 1: that we love and appreciate very much. Um that being,

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Speaker 1: of course Ghosts of the Abyss. Honestly, James Cameron. The

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Speaker 1: thing with James Cameron, he should have just been an

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Speaker 1: oceanographer and saved us all sometime I disagree because he's

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Speaker 1: directed a lot of movies that I deeply love. What

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Speaker 1: movie is he not submerged in? Is he submerged? Terminator? Terminator? Two?

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Speaker 1: Does a terminator not swim? I do not believe he

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Speaker 1: would short. Oh wait, because he's a robot. Yeah, he's

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Speaker 1: one zeros. I like robots right now, Well that you

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Speaker 1: got one in the movie we're talking about today. I

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Speaker 1: know he is a man, though, and that means this

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Speaker 1: conversation did not pass the Bechtel test. Hey wow, that

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Speaker 1: was actually a very great transition. Thank you so much so.

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Speaker 1: On the Bechtel Cast we discuss, as I said, the

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Speaker 1: portrayal of women in movies. We use the Bectel test

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Speaker 1: as a jumping off point to initiate a larger versation

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Speaker 1: about the portrayal of women. The Becto test being for

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Speaker 1: us to female identifying characters have to have names, they

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Speaker 1: have to speak to each other, and their conversation cannot

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Speaker 1: be about a man. Right, Can we beta test it

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Speaker 1: really quick? I have I have a thought I'd like

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Speaker 1: to express, and I think it passes the Bechdel test.

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Speaker 1: But you know, it's sort of it gets a little

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Speaker 1: murky at Hey, Caitlin, Hey Jamie, I think the Deadpool

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Speaker 1: too is for losers. You know what, Jamie, And I

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Speaker 1: won't go I see what you're saying, and I think

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Speaker 1: this already does not pass the Bechdel tests because Deadpool

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Speaker 1: is But I'm not talking I'm talking about the movie.

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Speaker 1: I'm not talking about the guy. Well. I mean, you

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Speaker 1: can't talk about Deadpool the movie without recognizing that it's

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Speaker 1: about Deadpool, the character who is male identifying Deadpool two

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Speaker 1: is for losers. And I'm not going to go. Well, Um,

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Speaker 1: t J. Miller, isn't it? And he can fuck right off,

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Speaker 1: He can funk right off, but he won't. He will not.

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Speaker 1: He never will anyway. So um, that was not necessarily

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Speaker 1: the best example of a conversation passing the back door

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Speaker 1: test example of discourse, It sure was. I agree. Hey,

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Speaker 1: let's introduce our guests. He is the host of the

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Speaker 1: great podcast. Yo? Is this racist? Ander? T O? Hi? Hi,

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Speaker 1: thanks for being here, Thanks for having me. So you

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Speaker 1: brought us aliens. Wow, I feel like it got brought

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Speaker 1: to all of us. Let's not. It got hatched for us,

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Speaker 1: got hatched from an egg and then implanted into our

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Speaker 1: chest cavities for business for Yeah, for capitalism for business,

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Speaker 1: business bads as this movie. So that's cool. We have

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Speaker 1: done the movie Alien on this podcast already with guests

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Speaker 1: Eliza Skinner. I went back and re listened to that episode.

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Speaker 1: It is one of our grosser episodes, and that we

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Speaker 1: spend almost the entire time talking about either jizz or jizz,

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Speaker 1: blood or vaginal flaps. Can we can we unpack that

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Speaker 1: a little bit? Why do you think just just blood

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Speaker 1: and vaginal flaps are gross? I think that's actually like

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Speaker 1: a beautiful thing. Well, is a good point in part

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Speaker 1: of the human experience? My bad? Um? I just I

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Speaker 1: guess I suppose the language we were using was invoking

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Speaker 1: some imagery that might flaps be considered unpleasant flaps. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I would like to talk about I wasn't going to

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Speaker 1: talk about I didn't have any flaps in my notes.

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Speaker 1: But maybe that's because we've just grown over the next year. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's the other thing about that episode is that there

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Speaker 1: wasn't a whole lot of discourse that we had necessarily right.

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Speaker 1: But I think this episode is going to be different.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be so discourse heavy that are our

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Speaker 1: flaps will come on? Our flaps will start kidding. There's

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Speaker 1: a there's a lot more direct flap imagery in this

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Speaker 1: movie than in Alien, I believe. I think this was like, well,

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Speaker 1: I guess that's more of everything. There's more of every

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Speaker 1: every gross thing. That's the plural. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's all of them. Um. So, Andrew, what's

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Speaker 1: your history your relationship to Aliens? Just aliens in general,

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Speaker 1: not the movie? Oh good, well, I guess I had

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Speaker 1: my first encounter. Aliens is probably a movie that I

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Speaker 1: mostly saw in pieces in edited on TNT. Probably did

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Speaker 1: they edit out the flaps? They must have, you know,

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Speaker 1: But I think I think the thing, I think if

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Speaker 1: you edit out any of the like over alien vagina imagery,

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Speaker 1: you have to edit it like like it is actually

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Speaker 1: really hard to draw the line. It's like, oh this

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Speaker 1: is too much. Well then how come the last thing

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Speaker 1: wasn't too much? And then I don't think you could

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Speaker 1: have a movie, because the whole point is Dixon Vagina's right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the vagina monster is a is a tale

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Speaker 1: as old as time, of course, but you see, you

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Speaker 1: can't help but look at the vagina monsters and all

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Speaker 1: these James Cameer movies and be like poorcast from Bigelow.

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Speaker 1: Wait all these Yeah, I think this might be the

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Speaker 1: only one. There's no two the well, both alien movies

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Speaker 1: are flat heavy. But he had nothing to do with

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Speaker 1: the first one. He didn't know. I have to go

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Speaker 1: or the third one? Right, and that's also the most

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Speaker 1: underwater one. So are just all our narratives? No? The

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Speaker 1: fourth one is, yeah, they swim through a big room

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Speaker 1: full of watered Winona writers. There. That's right, Oh, you're right,

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Speaker 1: it is for Yeah. I have since seen all of

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Speaker 1: the except minus any of the Alien Versus Predator. I

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Speaker 1: have not seen those, but those are to be totally honest,

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Speaker 1: as far as these movies go, probably the best ones.

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Speaker 1: They're the ones that absolutely know what they are. They

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Speaker 1: do exactly what they promise. They do not think they're

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Speaker 1: smarter than they are. I'm deadly serious. Any of the

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Speaker 1: Alien Versus Predators are better than any of the Alien

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Speaker 1: in movies or any of the product or movies. Wow,

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Speaker 1: well you know what, I'm gonna argue with you a

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Speaker 1: little bit on that one. I have not seen any

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Speaker 1: of the A B movies, but um, I mean I

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Speaker 1: really like alien and I really like aliens and that's

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Speaker 1: where it stops from. So, Jamie, you said that you

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Speaker 1: don't like this genre. I like this genre a lot,

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Speaker 1: and I especially like aliens. And I didn't really grow

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Speaker 1: up with this movie. I don't think it's not until

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Speaker 1: somewhere in my twenties. Yeah, yeah, same, sorry to finish

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Speaker 1: my history. Yeah no, no, that's it. You just reminded me.

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Speaker 1: It's like I watched parts of it a lot as

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Speaker 1: a kid, and then I think I must have watched

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Speaker 1: the whole thing. I don't know, hungover in my twenties

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Speaker 1: at some point. I don't know, it is kind of

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Speaker 1: a hangover movie. Yeah, And that it's a little to

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Speaker 1: twenty minutes long, and that Bradi Cooper and Zachal in

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Speaker 1: it carrying around a baby. I might as well. I mean,

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Speaker 1: new is sort of baby that they're carrying. Yeah. There

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Speaker 1: were three different points where I was like, oh that

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Speaker 1: I like. In my notes, I wrote the climax to

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Speaker 1: the movie, and for three days I was like, when

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Speaker 1: is it going to Then there's just more of vagina

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Speaker 1: monsters in the next scene, and it's like, yes, Queen,

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Speaker 1: go off, or I want to go home, Like I

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Speaker 1: just I just I don't know, do you think it

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Speaker 1: was too long, or do you think we could have sorry,

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Speaker 1: like kept on going too long, or do you think

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Speaker 1: they just took way too much exposition at the top,

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Speaker 1: because that's where I was like the exposition was. It's

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Speaker 1: so slow. It's very slow. There's a lot of like

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Speaker 1: and fake outs. There's like a boring scene that is

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Speaker 1: a fake out where you're like the like the opening scene,

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Speaker 1: where're like, it's boring, and then briefly horror, and then

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Speaker 1: it was a what why? Who cares? Who cares? It's

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Speaker 1: establishing her mindset, the horror that she experienced. I think

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Speaker 1: it's there for a reason. It's just eighteen. You would

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Speaker 1: do that in literally under one second. She would look

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Speaker 1: at one photograph and then we'd be like, we get it. Yes,

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Speaker 1: this movie did come out in nineteen eighty six, which

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Speaker 1: is also the year I was born, so much so Jamie,

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Speaker 1: you saw it for the first time Saturday Saturday night,

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Speaker 1: did not like it. But it's like one of those

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Speaker 1: things where it's like I can recognize that this movie

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Speaker 1: succeeds on a lot of levels and also never want

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Speaker 1: to see it again. Sure, yeah, Well should I get

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Speaker 1: into the recap? Yeah? Recap Okay, let's recap. So the

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Speaker 1: story basically picks up where Alien leaves off, which is

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Speaker 1: where I forget what happens in the first one. At

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Speaker 1: the end of Alien, the alien has infiltrated the ship,

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Speaker 1: killed everyone. The main frame, killed everyone on board except

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Speaker 1: for Ripley. She's the only survivor. She gets into and

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Speaker 1: Jonesy the cat queer icon I would say eight nippled icon.

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Speaker 1: Cat facts with Caitlin. Also, hey, wait, just real quick,

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Speaker 1: I I have learned another cat factor to what that's

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Speaker 1: not part of the bit. People have been really upset

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Speaker 1: that I only know the one cat. So here I

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Speaker 1: am proving to you all that I know that a

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Speaker 1: group of cats is called a clouder. That's fun rights

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Speaker 1: fun d cloud clouder. Oh that's pleasant. How did we

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Speaker 1: not know that? I don't know, but now you know.

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Speaker 1: And this is cat facts with Caitlin. Also, a cat

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Speaker 1: can jump up to six times its own length, and

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Speaker 1: cat owners are seventeen percent more likely to have a

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Speaker 1: graduate degree, which I think is a great transition into

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Speaker 1: my graduate degree, which I do have, a screenwriting Masters

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Speaker 1: from Boston University. I don't like to bring it up,

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Speaker 1: but the cat, uh not at this time, not right now,

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Speaker 1: but I have in the past and I will in

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Speaker 1: the future anyway. Okay, So the end of Alien is

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Speaker 1: Ripley is the only survivor. She gets into an escape pod,

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Speaker 1: objects the alien out into space, and then goes into hypersleep,

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Speaker 1: which is where this movie picks up. She has found

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Speaker 1: kind of just like floating around the universe, like, hey,

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Speaker 1: who are you? When what And she's like, oh, no,

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Speaker 1: I've been asleep for fifty seven years. That her daughter

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Speaker 1: that we didn't know she had in the first one.

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Speaker 1: I don't think. I think grew old and passed away,

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Speaker 1: which I will say, she does react to this. This

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Speaker 1: is part of the Ripley character that I find very interesting.

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Speaker 1: She's able to compartmentalize that devastating fact pretty efficiently, like

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Speaker 1: which I mean, we'll get into the more when we

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Speaker 1: discussed the character in depth. But she whip saws trauma

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Speaker 1: around a lot in these movies because a lot of

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Speaker 1: terrible ship happens to her, like incessantly. Nothing good ever

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Speaker 1: happens to her ever once she's cursed. But I was like,

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Speaker 1: amazing that, Like, you do see her react to it.

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Speaker 1: It's not like the movie ignores it, but then it

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Speaker 1: kind of In the next scene, she's like at a meeting,

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Speaker 1: I was like, whoa, Yes, she's like having bedridden for years,

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Speaker 1: she did have she had a dead daughter. Yes. In

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Speaker 1: the next scene, she's like giving a deposition of sorts

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Speaker 1: about this alien attack, basically recapping and doing a Ripley's

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Speaker 1: famous recap of the first Believe it or Not recap right,

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Speaker 1: believe that's the big No one believes her because they're not.

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Speaker 1: They're they're mad that she destroyed their expensive ship and

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Speaker 1: they demote her. She did. They made a big deal

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Speaker 1: about how that ship was a total ship hole in

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Speaker 1: the first who cares? And also what company fifty years

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Speaker 1: later would be like, We're really like, that's if some

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Speaker 1: if now someone was like that thing that happened in

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Speaker 1: the late sixties were still extremely salty about, like when

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Speaker 1: you crash my car. Fifty years when I quit my

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Speaker 1: last day job, I made sure to walk away with

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Speaker 1: an extremely powerful fan that I'd stolen from my office

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Speaker 1: from a set where I'm going to make fan out

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Speaker 1: of you carrying a large fan out of a fan

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Speaker 1: are a fan of fan? But then also, wow, I'm

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Speaker 1: holding a fan. I'm a big I'm a big I'm

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Speaker 1: a fan of fan, I'm a fan of the fan,

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Speaker 1: so it's really a triple fan kind of thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm personally a fan of fan fan art. So nanis

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Speaker 1: anyway tidy coming out of yours. So they Ripley's believe

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Speaker 1: it or not. They do not believe it. They do

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Speaker 1: not until they learn of an alien attack on the

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Speaker 1: same planet that they had like honed in on the

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Speaker 1: beacon in the first movie and found the alien ship

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Speaker 1: and all of that. Since then, people have been colonizing

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Speaker 1: it and trying to like terraform it and all this stuff.

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Speaker 1: And she's like, we'll check out that planet, and they're like,

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Speaker 1: we have, and nothing's there except there is something there.

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Speaker 1: That ship is still there and the alien there's also

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Speaker 1: in that whole meeting scene because we're supposed to be

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Speaker 1: in the distant future at this point, because the because

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Speaker 1: alien is in the distant future, and then Aliens is

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Speaker 1: fifty seven years after the distant future, but everyone still

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Speaker 1: has the same terrible haircut from and using computers from

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Speaker 1: that era as well. They're using big fat, thick computers. Yeah. Look,

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Speaker 1: I don't know why you're criticizing this perfect movie. All right, anyway,

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Speaker 1: I have a double collar situation going on, Like I

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Speaker 1: don't think he actually does, but his vibe feels like

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Speaker 1: he does. Like two shirts. He feels like two shirts,

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Speaker 1: two shirts. You good name? Yeah, a good white rapper names.

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Speaker 1: Also Bill Paxson's in this movie. Yes, I'm almost almost there.

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Speaker 1: He's not doing a good job. So the company and

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Speaker 1: all these people don't believe her and her alien attack

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Speaker 1: story until these aliens attack the people on this planet.

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Speaker 1: So Ripley is called in to help, and she eventually

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Speaker 1: agrees and she's like fine, and then all these marines

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Speaker 1: are also the kind of black her. They're like, you're

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Speaker 1: a dock worker, but you can go all the way

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Speaker 1: from being a dock worker to like fifth in charge

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Speaker 1: of like a shitty shitty ship. Right. They basically give

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Speaker 1: her title back, which they took away for not believing

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Speaker 1: the thing that happened to her. Um, they this movie

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Speaker 1: starts with someone not believing what a woman says in

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Speaker 1: spite of ample evidence. Right now, timely m hm. So

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Speaker 1: this whole crew of marines joined her on this sort

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Speaker 1: of like recon rescue mission. So there's Gorman, he's like

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Speaker 1: the commanding officer type of dude. Burke is Paul Riser,

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Speaker 1: the guy who like speaks on behalf of the company. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's Mr Bear's. Yeah, there's Bill Paxton playing Hudson. There's

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Speaker 1: a Charter named Drake. There's Hicks, there's a Poem, there's Frost,

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Speaker 1: There's Bishop, he's the artificial person. Those are the dudes

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Speaker 1: of the women. There's Vesquez, Pharaoh and Dietrich and then

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Speaker 1: I think I'm probably leaving some people out, but those

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Speaker 1: are kind of the main players. I feel like they

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Speaker 1: take they do take pains to kind of integrate the military,

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Speaker 1: Like there's women and they are doing all of the

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Speaker 1: available jobs, like Akas is the big guns. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: well oh yeah, well we'll talk about this, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: dare you Okay. So they arrive on the planet, they

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Speaker 1: scope the place out. They find Newt, who is like

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Speaker 1: the sole survivor of the alien attack on this colony

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Speaker 1: of somewhere around a hundred or more people. Um, Newt

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Speaker 1: is an eleven year old girl. She's dirty, she's dirty,

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Speaker 1: and Riley is like, I used to have an eleven

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Speaker 1: year old girl, and this one's here now, so I'm

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Speaker 1: going to treat her like she's my new daughter. Adorable.

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Speaker 1: It's cute, adorable. I love it. Just grimy, weird acting

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Speaker 1: little child. Okay. So then the crew goes in. They

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Speaker 1: find the big alien nest. Some aliens attack them, a

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Speaker 1: few people die. They try to leave the planet, but

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Speaker 1: an alien has gotten into their like spacecraft and kills

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Speaker 1: all the flight crew and then the space crashes and

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Speaker 1: they can't leave the planet now, so they're stuck. They

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Speaker 1: go back inside the facility. They set up some gun traps.

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Speaker 1: Bishops like, hey, I'm gonna go find another ship and

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Speaker 1: like do a manual override and saying, oh gosh. So

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Speaker 1: the aliens come back. They're like closing in on them.

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Speaker 1: Burke is like I'm a capitalist, and everyone's like you motherfucker. Oh,

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Speaker 1: And he tries to have Ripley and New impregnated to

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Speaker 1: get past quarantine. It's a whole thing. It doesn't work,

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Speaker 1: and then it gets captured. So Ripley's like, I gotta

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Speaker 1: go back in for she's still alive, and she is

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Speaker 1: like the planets about to fall apart, planets covered and flap,

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Speaker 1: it's just very flapping. It's flat planet. So yeah, Ripley

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Speaker 1: like she ties some guns together. She goes in and

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Speaker 1: gets newt and then she stumbles across the Queen Alien

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Speaker 1: and her like whole nest of eggs and she's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: ship and then they managed to escape, but the queen

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Speaker 1: gets on the ship and then there's this big battle

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Speaker 1: at the end and Ripley puts her forklift suit on

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Speaker 1: and kills the queen being delivers a line and it's

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Speaker 1: like God, away from her, you bitch, and then slap

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Speaker 1: clap and we clap, and then the flap when the

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Speaker 1: flaps are squirting in a man is torn in half,

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Speaker 1: but he's fine, and and then the little kid is

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Speaker 1: released and she delivers a line and then it ends.

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Speaker 1: That's it. So that's the story of Aliens. I just

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Speaker 1: call Alien too. Yeah, well we've been so easy. It's

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Speaker 1: I feel like this is so confusing. Yeah, and then

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Speaker 1: the next one they call Alien three three, but it's like, cue,

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Speaker 1: what so stupid? And now when they sell all of

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Speaker 1: the movies together they call it a quadrilogy, which is like,

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Speaker 1: I just want to say, it's tetralogy or would be

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Speaker 1: if it's four, oh, like tetrahedron for I think, don't

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Speaker 1: correct me. Quatrilogy sound yes, it sounds okay. I have

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Speaker 1: a lot of thoughts on this movie because, unlike most

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Speaker 1: action movies of this era and then all of the

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Speaker 1: ones to date, I think it does a fairly good

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Speaker 1: job portraying not just one female character, but a at

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Speaker 1: least sizeable bullish cast of them. Yes, between Ripley and Vasquez,

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Speaker 1: which there's plenty to talk about with that character. Um,

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Speaker 1: But then also Newt. I think in a lot of

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Speaker 1: movies like this, a small child, especially a female one,

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Speaker 1: would be treated like a huge burden and be the

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Speaker 1: source of a lot of like obstacles and like we

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Speaker 1: have to rescue you and protect you the whole time.

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Speaker 1: But like new it's actually doing a lot to sort

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Speaker 1: of contribute to. Well, yeah, there's a few different moments

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Speaker 1: where her knowledge is like key to moving the plat forward,

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Speaker 1: Like when they go into the too be things where

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Speaker 1: you grew up and she knows how to navigate them,

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Speaker 1: And yeah, you need a greasy tunnel child to fight

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Speaker 1: greasy rat, the greasy bugs. She's a she's a street rat,

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Speaker 1: and they need that. They need that, and just a

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Speaker 1: bunch of marines can solve it. But no, you need

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Speaker 1: just fucking filthy child. Well, there's there, we're outsourcing it.

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Speaker 1: We've got a third party client. There's a dirty kid

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Speaker 1: we found. There's a great conversation between Bill Paxson's character

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Speaker 1: and Ripley where Bill Patson's like, we won't let seen

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Speaker 1: out here and Ripley's like, this little girl lasted longer

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Speaker 1: than that without any weapons or training, and he's like,

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Speaker 1: let's put her in charge then, and it's like, honestly,

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Speaker 1: let's like, okay, let's not take it to the place

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Speaker 1: where we're putting a dirty child in charge of the ship. Lastly,

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Speaker 1: I think that would be very progressive. And I want

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Speaker 1: to see that movie. It's called Jimmy Neutron. The kids

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Speaker 1: are in charge and it's a nightmare. I think, Oh,

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Speaker 1: here's as a retroctor theory about Jimmy Neutron. It was

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Speaker 1: a really fun movie designed to keep kids in their

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Speaker 1: place and they're like, you need parents, see or you'll

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Speaker 1: end up like Jimmy Neutron. Yeah, usaid have a crush

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Speaker 1: and the one who peed in the shower. Anyways, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the character of new there's also a few different moments,

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Speaker 1: like the scenes between her and Ripley are generally very nice.

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Speaker 1: Um and aren't too heavy handed with like that I

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Speaker 1: am your mommy now, which I feel like a less

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Speaker 1: good movie would have really played those moments up to

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Speaker 1: be like obnoxious kind of this movie doesn't. And then

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Speaker 1: there's also that kind of like fun little subversion where

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Speaker 1: Ripley patronizes New a little bit by being like, your

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Speaker 1: doll would be brave, and she's like, it's a doll's plastic.

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Speaker 1: It's not feel shit, Sigourney Weaver, don't patronize me. And

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Speaker 1: then Sigourney Weaver apologize this, and I was like, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: You're right, that was weird. I was like, Wow, what

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Speaker 1: a pleasant discussion this was. It would be fine if

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Speaker 1: that little girl was smoking a cigarette that entire movie, like,

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Speaker 1: it would not be out of place if she was

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Speaker 1: just like, you don't know the ship I've seen lady.

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Speaker 1: She is wise beyond her years, and the fact that

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Speaker 1: she's the only survivor of what seems like mostly adults

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Speaker 1: is like, I think, pretty remarkable. She's a slippery little

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Speaker 1: tunnel kid. Don't funk with this little sh I wasn't

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Speaker 1: paying close enough attention because I got real bored in

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Speaker 1: the first acts. It's she the kid from the family

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Speaker 1: that finds that that gets sent Okay, so right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So I'm honestly I'm pretty impressed with the movie's depiction

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Speaker 1: of that child character because I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: movies will be like, oh, well, here's this extra burden

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Speaker 1: that you have to deal with that like really just

390
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,960
Speaker 1: has to be dragged along. But in this movie, she's

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Speaker 1: like given a purpose and like actually contributes to the

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Speaker 1: progression of the plot at some points, and like the

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00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 1: connection she makes with Ripley makes a lot of sense

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Speaker 1: for both of them. Uh and um, like you said it,

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Speaker 1: it's like not too heavy handed. I think the movie

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Speaker 1: shows a lot of restraint in that relationship, which I appreciate. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like a lesser movie would have had like a lot

398
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Speaker 1: of embraces and music swelling where this movie actra and

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Speaker 1: that does happen. In Alien four, we're Succourinea. We were

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Speaker 1: talking to Winona writer and basically it's like you're my

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Speaker 1: daughter now, and then they hug and and and smooch

402
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:37,200
Speaker 1: and are pretty much it's like on that vector of like, Okay,

403
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,680
Speaker 1: I gotta say that's also a bad movie. Well that's

404
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 1: the one where she makes that backwards basketball shot. Though

405
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 1: it makes it for real and everyone freaks out and

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Speaker 1: they can't cut it in time before I think it's

407
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 1: Ron Perlman is like literally you can see him saying

408
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Speaker 1: holy shit in the back of the frame because she

409
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 1: was supposed just toss a basketball over her head and

410
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Speaker 1: then there was supposed to cut it, but it actually

411
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Speaker 1: goes in the basket. Yeah, from like the three point line.

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Speaker 1: It's hilarious. She's amazing. Man. There's not a lot of

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Speaker 1: movies in general, regardless of the genre, that treats like

414
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Speaker 1: you know, in a movie where the cast is largely adults,

415
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: child characters are not usually treated with any respect or agencies.

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Speaker 1: So for younger kids who saw this movie, I'm sure

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00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,880
Speaker 1: that was like cool. Yeah, wait, how young It would

418
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Speaker 1: be real fucked up to show this to any kids.

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Speaker 1: Don't show this to your kids. That's slippery. Little tunnel kid.

420
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,880
Speaker 1: If I died, here's your here's your bucket of old

421
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 1: motor oil, here's a shovel, go have fun in the backyard.

422
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,680
Speaker 1: They said, Okay, but the evolution because Alien is alien,

423
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 1: like Sigourney Weaver is the star of Alien because of

424
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 1: the final girl tropes of horror movies. But now she

425
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 1: gets in an action movie, and they do a good

426
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 1: job of like not And I guess she's not very

427
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,879
Speaker 1: final girly in Alien because it's it's just that narrative structure.

428
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 1: But then otherwise it's very like it doesn't follow a

429
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,159
Speaker 1: lot of the tropes that the final girl that the

430
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 1: movie movies who do have like a final girl trope

431
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 1: do because it's like it's all like she survived because

432
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,679
Speaker 1: she's the virgin. Yeah, so it doesn't adhere to a

433
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: lot of those the whiff of that, Yeah, I think

434
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 1: like on paper it would look more similar than actually

435
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: what it actually is because she, I mean an alien

436
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 1: to she has like so much like college and age,

437
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 1: Like how you're just gonna you're insisting on calling an

438
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 1: alien to alien? Oh and and oh no, I was

439
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:33,360
Speaker 1: calling it an alien sorry t o O in Alien

440
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 1: the first one, she's Yeah, she is kind of like

441
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:38,679
Speaker 1: I didn't even thought of that. She is kind of

442
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,120
Speaker 1: like a final female because it's a horror movie. It's

443
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: a slasher movie, yeah, just set in a garbage space.

444
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,919
Speaker 1: But it's like the twist there is that she actually

445
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 1: has skills and abilities and that's why she survives, or

446
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 1: a big part of why she survives, right, and then

447
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: that carries over into Aliens where she isn't given a

448
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: whole lot to do in the first I would say

449
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 1: maybe hour of the movie, because she's really just called

450
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 1: in as a sort of consultant because they recognize, oh wait,

451
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 1: actually you have gone through this. Um. So I think

452
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 1: that was at least cool that, Like in a lot

453
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 1: of times, if there's a movie where like an expert

454
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 1: needs to be called in, it's a man. So the

455
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 1: fact that like she is called onto the scene because

456
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,919
Speaker 1: of her expertise in her experience and also given a

457
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 1: role of like authority and power because I think she

458
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: resumes her position is is it lieutenant or something like?

459
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: I think they do that shitty action movie thing where

460
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: they have the scene where Sigourney Weaver she has to

461
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 1: prove her abilities and all the guys have like unchanged

462
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 1: their draws. They're like, well, the girl can do a

463
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: thing like that. My my least favorite thing that happens

464
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 1: in actually movie superhero movies in a lot of different

465
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: genres of like we see the main female character demonstrate

466
00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 1: even a monica with something like robotics or like whatever,

467
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: and they should not be shocked because they know, like

468
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,239
Speaker 1: that was like part of her job. But they're like,

469
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 1: oh my freaking god, this chick in a robot suit.

470
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 1: Everyone's a half mass. But they're also like, wow, she

471
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 1: can do it. I guess we'd better like give her

472
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,880
Speaker 1: an entry level job, you know, And I okay, So

473
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 1: that is a bad tripe. I didn't bother me so

474
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,439
Speaker 1: much in this movie as it does in other movies,

475
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: because one usually when that happens, usually when that female

476
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: character like has to prove herself for like, as we

477
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 1: always talk about that McSweeney's article where she's like, I'm

478
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: the token female and this action Blackbuster and I usually

479
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,439
Speaker 1: when that happens, the female character is sexualized in some

480
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 1: way or like what she's doing is presented as like

481
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: this very sexy thing, but also like, look how competent

482
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 1: she is, but she's also extremely sexy while doing it.

483
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 1: And in this movie, it's her like clamoring into a

484
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 1: forklift basically and then like lifting up a thing, and

485
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: they're like and yeah, the guys are like t he

486
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: he Wow, I didn't expect she could do that. Yeah,

487
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:10,879
Speaker 1: I don't know. It just it didn't bother me as

488
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 1: much as it does another It's not the worst example

489
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: of it. When I do, I always do want to

490
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,479
Speaker 1: make sure that I point that out because in that scene,

491
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: I think that the guys are supposed to sort of

492
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 1: represent the audience to an extent of like, Wow, look,

493
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: she really can do it. You can trust this character

494
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 1: moving forward, you know, like just reassuring the audience that

495
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 1: she is competent, which isn't necessarily a thing that you'd

496
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: have to happen given what we know about this character. Sure,

497
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 1: and she's from the past, so that's true. She's like

498
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 1: a hundred and eighty to them. She's their grandma. There's

499
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: not enough like unfrozen caveman jokes in that, like like

500
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 1: there's a lot of opportunities for her to like so

501
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 1: what do you what music do you guys listen to it?

502
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: They're like, what what is this? Yeah, that's a good point.

503
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 1: Those are the jokes of the Alien franchise. We need, Yeah,

504
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: we gotta, we gotta make a power sheet of some

505
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: unfrozen Sigourney. We should. Yeah, when's like the comedy heist

506
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: alien movie coming out, I want to see that credits

507
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: and robot parts. But in that scene, whenever the guys

508
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 1: were like whoa I couldn't believe she could operate a forklift.

509
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 1: That almost certainly would not have happened if she were

510
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 1: a man. They would not have had that reaction. And

511
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: I don't think that there would have been such like

512
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: a narrative dragon in the first act of the movie

513
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: of if. I mean, let's just go there. If if,

514
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: like there was a male character who was frozen in

515
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: the past who came back, I feel like it would

516
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 1: be a more likely narrative choice for this era to

517
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: you know, like treat him as a returning hero and

518
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: just be like, hey, you're probably lying and you're probably

519
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: traumatized because of what happened with your kid, you know

520
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 1: where they assume and and part of the reason that

521
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: she's kind of discredited in that first scene is because

522
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: it's like, well, you've been through a lot, and we

523
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: don't really believe what you're saying. Basically, it's like she's hysterical,

524
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: is the h and that's what they Yeah, that's what

525
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: they say. They say something like I don't remember the

526
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,239
Speaker 1: exact quote, but they suspend her license because of it.

527
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 1: They remove all of her credentials, which is a very

528
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: frustrating scene to watch because it's basically her talking to

529
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: a room full of mostly men and being like, here's

530
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: this horrible thing that happened to me, and they're like,

531
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: but I don't believe you, and it's kind of your

532
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: fault when you think, yeah, is her fault, right, and

533
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 1: then she gets very angry for not being believed as

534
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: one would and then they're like, oh, actually it seems

535
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 1: like you're crazy, so bye. Right. It's very frustrating. Yes,

536
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: but that's not like the movie doing a bad job.

537
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 1: It's just the being by a corporation exactly. This movie

538
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: is anti corporation. It is which if you look at

539
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: movies that came out, and I mean this is like

540
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: Pete Reagan kind of unusual for I mean where I

541
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: said it before I say it again. Ghostbusters is the

542
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 1: most pro corporation movie of all fucking time. And it

543
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: is like the same. Yeah, it's like they're just like

544
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 1: a fucking start up, their startup bros, start up gros

545
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: who get a bad loan. Yeah, those guys they're bad

546
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: and they hate the e p as is the worst

547
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 1: startup of all time. That's true. I genuinely prefer the

548
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 1: new Ghostbusters because I'm just like, it's just I hate

549
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: it turns out I hate anything made before, like everything

550
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: is so slow. Thankfully Jimmy Netron came on, so it

551
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: qualifies to be your new favorite. So in a lot

552
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 1: of action movies where the protagonist is a woman, I

553
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 1: feel like a lot of them still don't do a

554
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: very good job because they don't spend that much time

555
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 1: developing that female protagonist, or they're just like sort of

556
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 1: the vehicle to propel this story but aren't given that

557
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 1: much characterization. I'm thinking of movies like Laura Kraft tomb

558
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,959
Speaker 1: Raader and we did an episode on or in movies

559
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 1: where like there's like a female action star among other characters,

560
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: like Black Widow in like the Avengers Marvel Universe had

561
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: a question about that um that my friend who watched

562
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: Avengers with brought this up. Well, no, okay, this is

563
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: stealing this question from Todd Levin, but it is, you

564
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: know relevant, we're ever going to get away from the

565
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: like Avengers part where they can only fight other women

566
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: in a big battle scene. It's like, who brought this up? Oh,

567
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 1: it was um Ify on our Black Panther episode where

568
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: that yeah, that is that is a huge trope where

569
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 1: if there's a big battle scene where a group of

570
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 1: people are fighting each other and there are like women

571
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: on either side there. It's like they always have women.

572
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 1: Spond movies always do that. Fast and Furious movies always

573
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: do like they have to bring in women on the

574
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: not they have to, they should. I guess you can

575
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: have criminal women, it's great, um, but we can do anything.

576
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: They specifically clearly cast the men on the other to

577
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: literally be the equal or the foil for the woman only.

578
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 1: And I think in like this is who you get

579
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 1: to beat up. And there's a few examples where women

580
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 1: are I mean, I thought of Killed Bill right away,

581
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 1: where the main female action protucitist is fighting men. But

582
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: the offset of that is that character is sexualized pretty

583
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 1: intensely throughout that entire movie. So I don't know, I

584
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 1: can't think of or I guess maybe it's it's and

585
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: you can have female like heroes beating up like faceless dudes.

586
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: But and I guess I'm about to answer my own question,

587
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: which is like, you can't have like Captain America, like

588
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: beating up the poor thanos because that is a bad look.

589
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 1: I guess hits a lady. My instinct is not good. Sure, yeah,

590
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 1: but woman's been killing people and blah blah blah. You

591
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 1: know that's the argument. It's sexist not to beat her

592
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: ass you know what I'm saying, Right, that's like, that's

593
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: an interesting I bet that there's stuff written on that too.

594
00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it depends on the kind of character.

595
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 1: Like obviously Captain America can't hit any woman he wants. Yeah,

596
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 1: that's bad, right of course, But it's like it's such

597
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 1: a start. You're just like you knew when there was

598
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:17,280
Speaker 1: like a bad fo woman that she would have to fight.

599
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,359
Speaker 1: Well in terms of villain parity, well, but if we

600
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: if we go into like Disney lore, I think that

601
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 1: there's some examples of male heroes killing female villains. Oh

602
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 1: little Mermaid, Little Mermaid, also sleeping Beauty. Um, he slays

603
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 1: the dragon who is maleficent. I think that there are

604
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: some examples of that. But yeah, it's always that's an

605
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: interesting Yeah. I mean, obviously we don't you know, violence

606
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: against women is bad, but they're definitely that trope exists

607
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 1: of like if there's a bad woman, only a woman

608
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: on the good side can fight her. Although I thought

609
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:56,359
Speaker 1: what you were where you were going, and that's why

610
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,839
Speaker 1: I brought up the like black Panther discussion is like

611
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:04,879
Speaker 1: to Challa's army is all women. You see them fighting then,

612
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,359
Speaker 1: so it's not like they're yeah so yeah, I mean

613
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:12,720
Speaker 1: I like seeing that. I would watch women beating men's asses.

614
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: That's the only time it was real gross. In a

615
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,399
Speaker 1: recent movie that I remember was I think john Wick

616
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 1: two where Keanu Reeves like just beats up Ruby Rose

617
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 1: and it's like, this is fucking terrible. No, it's really unpleasant.

618
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 1: I didn't see John Wick or John Wick to John Wicks,

619
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: but he just beats up Ruby Rose and she is

620
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 1: a teeny tiny, skinny lady and like whatever. Of course

621
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 1: it doesn't really matter, but the optics of it are

622
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,800
Speaker 1: so fucked up that I'm just like, why would you

623
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: agree to I don't know where I land on. That's like, yeah,

624
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 1: that just see that's a murky area because you want

625
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 1: to have parody in every and everything, right, but also

626
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,839
Speaker 1: what it because media is so like effective, like if

627
00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: you if you're a teenage boy and you see that,

628
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 1: you use that to justify bad behavior. I don't know.

629
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 1: I don't think we have an audience and we probably

630
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,399
Speaker 1: never will have an audience. That's sophisticated enough. It's like

631
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 1: it's like having the N word and huck fan. Everyone's like, oh,

632
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 1: you know, this is a good like teachable moment, and like, yeah,

633
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 1: it's also a moment for a bunch of white fourteen

634
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 1: year old to yell the N word. To use it

635
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: is permission to do something that wasn't the intent, or

636
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:28,399
Speaker 1: maybe it was the intent, who knows. Anyway, it's quite

637
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 1: all right, no, no, no, I I think that that's

638
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,359
Speaker 1: like an interesting Well, if you're listening, we would love

639
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts or if there's any like pieces

640
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 1: or anything that's been written on this that you could

641
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,280
Speaker 1: direct you to share, please, And if you're not listening,

642
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 1: then especially if you're not listening, that's a yeah, I'm

643
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: in the fence about it. It's one of those that's

644
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 1: like it's easy. Yeah, you kind of you feel like

645
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,240
Speaker 1: you have an idea of it in theory, but almost

646
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: every time you see in practice you're like nope, I

647
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 1: think yeah, it's like I want to say, as of

648
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 1: right now, I want to be like, hey, no that

649
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 1: you know, there can be parody in fight scenes, but

650
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: I also can so easily see the wrong type of

651
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 1: person seeing that and using it as an excuse of like, well,

652
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: this must be okay to do to anyone I want,

653
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:21,439
Speaker 1: because people who see movies are stupid. Excuse me especially well,

654
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 1: because I mean, feminism is all about equality among the

655
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 1: genders and like women being equal to men. So in

656
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: theory you could be like, well, yeah, like if men

657
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: and women are equal, then women can be beat up

658
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,439
Speaker 1: by men and it'll be fine. But I think too soon,

659
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 1: too soon, too soon, And that's also just so weird

660
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 1: having your cake and eating it too, of like the

661
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: patriarchy has had the cake and now eating it too

662
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 1: means that you can hit us on screen now, right

663
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 1: because women have been the victim of so much violence

664
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: at the hand of men. Yeah, we're not anywhere near.

665
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 1: There should be a solid only five years of just

666
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 1: when kicking men's asses in movies, and then we can

667
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,879
Speaker 1: bring this question up, yes, right now, and maybe maybe

668
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 1: too soon. Not impossible, but too soon, I think. So

669
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 1: all that discussion, yeah, I agree, And to conclude, the

670
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 1: original point I was making is that like the female

671
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 1: characters in action movies, if they are participating in the action,

672
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 1: they're usually not characterized very well. They're underdeveloped. We don't

673
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: know much about them. Yeah, they just don't have any

674
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 1: real traits beyond being kind of like badass. Whereas with Ripley,

675
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 1: I think a pretty I mean a lot of characterization

676
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: goes into her. We know that she's very smart, she's

677
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: very capable, she's highly rational, um, but she also has

678
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 1: like a nurturing side with where we see with Newt,

679
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 1: and I think she's a much more developed in multidimensional

680
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: character than we are used to seeing, especially in women

681
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 1: characters in action movies. I think it's also like a

682
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: very of the moment at that time statement, like a

683
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 1: female character being a very capable mother figure at least,

684
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,399
Speaker 1: and also being very good and very capable and self

685
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 1: sustaining at her job, because at this time it was

686
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 1: still relatively new for women to be in the workplace

687
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 1: and also be viewed as, you know, able to be

688
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 1: a good mother. Right. Oh man. I feel like when

689
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:23,760
Speaker 1: this came out like the same way any time anything

690
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,879
Speaker 1: happens in pop culture now, like right wing people are like, well,

691
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 1: this is actually like a conservative movie. You can just

692
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 1: see like all the fucking like Daily Mail, like this

693
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 1: is actually about Margaret Thatcher, and like this is you

694
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,320
Speaker 1: know this is really about how conservative women can do everything.

695
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 1: Doesn't just feel like that definitely happens. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

696
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:47,319
Speaker 1: I kind of hate when movie they're co opted for

697
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 1: a bizarro cause, like, yeah, it's it ruins it, but

698
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 1: they I think that it just means that this movie

699
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: is a well written movie too, which by and large,

700
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 1: James Cameron movies do pretty well. Uh, in in its

701
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 1: treatment of female characters, weren't good. Oh, I don't know Titan,

702
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 1: I've ever heard of it. Some great, like almost all

703
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 1: great female characters, and in The Terminator at least the

704
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 1: first two movies, I don't I'm not super familiar with

705
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:17,240
Speaker 1: the ones after that. But um, Sarah Connor is a

706
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 1: huge badass, and I know, like his movies have been criticized,

707
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 1: his treatment of women has been criticized to some degree.

708
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,839
Speaker 1: He's also come out and said pretty stupid things in

709
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 1: recent years, Like he had a quote about Wonder Woman

710
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 1: which was kind of dumb, where he's basically like being

711
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 1: very self congratulatory, was like, well, look at how I

712
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:35,799
Speaker 1: treat my women in my movies. I'm done like that,

713
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:39,319
Speaker 1: And it's just like you're missing the point. Yeah, at

714
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: the end of the day, he is uh, straight white

715
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:47,760
Speaker 1: man born before and therefore is wrong about most things.

716
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 1: But it's also like dog, keep your mouth shot, and

717
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 1: you can still be like actions Paul Feig, like you

718
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:57,879
Speaker 1: just be quiet, like everyone will grudgingly be like, ah, well,

719
00:40:57,880 --> 00:40:59,919
Speaker 1: at least the movies are more or less on point

720
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 1: if you just fucking shut your mouth when people ask

721
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 1: you about the state of feminism, Yeah, why say anything?

722
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 1: It would Yeah, it would have been so easy to

723
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:13,319
Speaker 1: just be like seems pretty good. Liked the movie, liked

724
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:15,840
Speaker 1: them that I needed to say, super easy, jam What

725
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:19,799
Speaker 1: are you doing? Do you all ever call him jam Cam? Jack? No?

726
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 1: I love that. That sounds like a good reality shows

727
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: throwing it out there, Cam James Cameron prank show Jack. Well, so, Jamie,

728
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 1: you mentioned Titanic, and I think this serves as a

729
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 1: transition into my next talking point because Vasquez, the character

730
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 1: in Aliens, is in Titanic as the Irish Mummy. Oh

731
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 1: my God her, which means which is a good transition

732
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:50,760
Speaker 1: into I didn't notice that because in Titanic she is white.

733
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:56,719
Speaker 1: She is as a person, she is white. Vasquez, who

734
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:02,320
Speaker 1: is a Latina character. The actor is Janette Goldstein, who

735
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 1: is she is Jewish, Jewish. She is of Russian's, Moroccan

736
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 1: and Brazilian. She's Jewish from Beverly Hill, but she's a

737
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 1: white lady. She's Jewish from a can say. I found

738
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 1: a little excerpt that says that Goldstein was outfitted with

739
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 1: dark contact lenses to hide her blue eyes, and even

740
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 1: covered in full face and body makeup to cover up

741
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 1: her white skin. She is literally in brown face. There's

742
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 1: poll quotes from her talking about at the time complaining

743
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 1: about how the makeup made it hard for her to

744
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 1: do the part. But because she's like sweaty and wet

745
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: the whole time, maybe you should have just cast a

746
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 1: Latina actress in that role and you wouldn't have had

747
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 1: to do that. Yeah, that's troubling. Yeah, it's just I mean,

748
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 1: and I guess I don't know the state of brown

749
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 1: face in movie is in specifically, I have to imagine

750
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 1: if you know, is on the I don't know. I mean,

751
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 1: I genuinely don't know. But it's obviously unacceptable and I

752
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 1: don't understand. Yeah, I just don't understand. Yeah, it's kind

753
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 1: of a bummer all around, where you're like, why he

754
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:24,839
Speaker 1: is so unnecessary? It's such a weird choice. I think

755
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 1: it's because she she's a pretty beloved character, and it

756
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 1: would have been greater. It is great to have a

757
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 1: woman of color character be such a beloved character, but

758
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,359
Speaker 1: the fact that the actress playing that character is not

759
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 1: actually a woman of color just feels like a hollow victory. Right.

760
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:43,319
Speaker 1: But there are a few things I do want to

761
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 1: say about this character that I think are worth noting,

762
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: aside from setting aside that actresses in brown face, and

763
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 1: if there's a silver lining, it's not played for laughs

764
00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 1: at all. I mean, they even attempt to make like

765
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 1: a like an anti Latino a joke about illegal immigrants,

766
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: and she tells him to go fuck himself basically, which

767
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: makes it all the more baffling that they didn't just

768
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 1: hire the right actor for Bartley. It just doesn't. Yeah, yeah,

769
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:13,800
Speaker 1: because the character is treated with respect pretty consistently, and

770
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 1: it's like proves herself again and again, and he's a

771
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 1: well written character. There's nothing wrong with the character. It's

772
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 1: all the execution that's wrong. Right, Because so Vasquez is

773
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting that we see on the screen

774
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:31,839
Speaker 1: a fairly mask presenting woman. You don't see a lot

775
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 1: of representation of that on screen in like mainstream Hollywood movies,

776
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: she's a spaceman unless yeah, I mean unless it's like

777
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 1: that type of character is the butt of a joke,

778
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 1: which there's a brief moment where Bill Paxton says something

779
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 1: like fascas, have you've been mistaken for a man? And

780
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 1: she comes back with no, have you and then she

781
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:58,280
Speaker 1: slaps high five and goes off, Yeah got me, God,

782
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 1: I got packed at jam Cam. Aside from that, though,

783
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: like her sort of mask presentation isn't like the butt

784
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 1: of a joke, and by and large she's very respected

785
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 1: and seen as an equal among her male colleague. That's

786
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 1: accomplished very quickly, Like in that scene Paxiston comes out

787
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 1: or with that she shuts him down, and then her

788
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 1: other friend is sort of like, yeah, that's good, as

789
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 1: you rule, and then she slaps him in the face

790
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 1: and I was like, whoa, She's coming in hot in

791
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 1: every regard it was exciting. Well, she just woke up.

792
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 1: She was also doing she's doing a pull up. Someone

793
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 1: does another pull up. Someone's pretty good scene. Yeah, I

794
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,399
Speaker 1: was like, what a space marine. Holy sh it. So

795
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 1: through the rest of the movie she is one of

796
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,359
Speaker 1: the people who survives pretty close to the very end.

797
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 1: Oftentimes she is like leading the way. If they're like

798
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,479
Speaker 1: going into a new area that they're unfamiliar with, She's

799
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:59,840
Speaker 1: like going in first, holding the biggest gun. She's charge,

800
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 1: Like who's in charge on the ship? Like, who is

801
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 1: the person who's in charge? Well, it's the gormless new

802
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:08,360
Speaker 1: guy is technically in charge, and then the older black dude.

803
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:13,360
Speaker 1: And then yeah, opone dies pretty quickly, so he was

804
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 1: like sort of the highest ranking. So Gorman is like

805
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 1: delivering orders from behind the scenes. Oppone dies, So then

806
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 1: the next in command ends up being Hicks at some point.

807
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 1: The reason I ask is I don't know how to

808
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 1: at the loftest rule of factors into this movie. I

809
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 1: think it might not succeed in this movie because I

810
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,240
Speaker 1: would say Ripley is ultimately the woman most in charge

811
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: and she has the most hair. Yeah she is not,

812
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 1: but in Alien three she shaves her head and she

813
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:42,839
Speaker 1: does become the baldest woman in charge. So Alien three

814
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:48,360
Speaker 1: passes the longest games, the franchise passes this maybe specific movie,

815
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 1: and she doesn't have a lot of hair. I mean,

816
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:53,840
Speaker 1: you could argue that the Alien queen is bald, that

817
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: she's all flaps, hairless flaps. But she in charge, which

818
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:02,240
Speaker 1: is an unfair press, is in charge of her alien,

819
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 1: of her organized family. It was really an empowering movie.

820
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: The flaps would have hair. Yeah, you're right, don't wax

821
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 1: my flaps. That's what my shirt in any case, don't

822
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 1: try about me a little flat Vasquez though, Yeah, I

823
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:26,319
Speaker 1: mean she like the men are never like, oh, we

824
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 1: have to protect her. She might be one of the

825
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 1: crazier ones. Yeah, she's kind of unhinged, right in a

826
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 1: way that you would normally see like a male character

827
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 1: like Yippy caying around a little bit. Right. If anyone

828
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:42,479
Speaker 1: has rode rage on that crew, it's maybe her, Yeah,

829
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 1: which I guess she could have rid rage steroids too.

830
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 1: That's right. Women can do it. If we can be criminals,

831
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 1: we can abuse steroids, you name it, we can do it.

832
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 1: Pharaoh is a little bit chiller, and another woman with

833
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 1: part hair. Yeah, she's the pilot. And then there's another

834
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,840
Speaker 1: woman on the team. Her name is Dietrich and she

835
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:05,720
Speaker 1: seems to be like a medic technician of some kind.

836
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 1: She is one of the first people to die, though,

837
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:10,240
Speaker 1: so we don't see a ton of her on screen,

838
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 1: But you were mentioning this earlier is that the movie

839
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 1: kind of goes out of its way to be pretty

840
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: inclusive in terms of having women be a part of

841
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 1: the marine team, which compared this movie to write compared

842
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 1: this movie to The Rock exactly where it's kind of

843
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 1: similar and that like there's just like someone who has

844
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 1: a certain specialty that gets called in to advise on

845
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:42,280
Speaker 1: this rescue mission and aliens. It's Ripley. In The Rocket's

846
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 1: Sean Connery his wife my favorite shots. But in The

847
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 1: Rock there are hardly any women seen on screen at all.

848
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 1: In this movie, women have a ton of screen time,

849
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:03,319
Speaker 1: which makes sense and not insight. Unlike The Rock, it's

850
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 1: only allowed on screen during The Rock if they're wearing

851
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:12,799
Speaker 1: a feather boa and proposing and gregnant anyway. So yeah,

852
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 1: I think it's really cool to see so many women

853
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 1: in like military positions in this movie. Yeah, more progressive

854
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:26,800
Speaker 1: than our current military and our current like movies about military,

855
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,240
Speaker 1: Like there's I would say, if there is a movie

856
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 1: being made about marines right now, I can't imagine it

857
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 1: even having the parody of this movie. Yeah, or it's

858
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:37,239
Speaker 1: like a big deal, like a G I. Jane where

859
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, can you believe it? This is such

860
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 1: a struggle, what a noble struggle. I mean, no one's

861
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:48,799
Speaker 1: gender really gets aside from that one joke that Bill

862
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 1: Paxton says in the beginning, like there's gender isn't Oh

863
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 1: there's one other scene. Uh there. It was a part

864
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:57,720
Speaker 1: of the movie where I said where I shouted locker

865
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 1: room talk. Oh. Yes, because there's a scene where they're

866
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 1: all at lunch and this is like right after Ripley

867
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 1: gets there and she's like, oh, I wonder if people

868
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:10,800
Speaker 1: respect women in the future, and it's like nope. Uh

869
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 1: where Oh I have I have the quote one of

870
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:18,400
Speaker 1: the marines says, Oh, we're going on this mission because

871
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 1: the juicy colonists daughters need rescuing from their virginity. Yeah,

872
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 1: they say the phrase juicy colonists daughters. Now that's a

873
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 1: fundamentally flawed phrase as well, because are they saying that

874
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:40,879
Speaker 1: the fathers are juicy or that's a misplaced qualifier. They're like, oh,

875
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 1: the juicy colonists thin daughters. Like we don't know. I

876
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:50,919
Speaker 1: simply don't know. Jim really camped himself on that one. Yeah,

877
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:53,239
Speaker 1: that is I don't know why that line is in

878
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 1: the movie. It feels kind of out of place, and

879
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 1: then they're okay. There is also later on they all

880
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 1: did suffer at the hands of the many juicy daughters

881
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 1: on the planet. So that's true. I mean there were

882
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 1: a bunch of juicy daughters, meaning the aliens, the slap Monster.

883
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:13,759
Speaker 1: I would say that they did. Yeah, it was a

884
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 1: wet plane, slippery as hell. Please come see my new

885
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:26,400
Speaker 1: student film, wet Planets, just Clammy Planets planet. Um. Okay, So,

886
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 1: aside from a few quick moments, gender isn't really addressed

887
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 1: in this movie. No one's like, oh, you can't do

888
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 1: that because you're a woman, or I'm not going to

889
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 1: listen to a woman. Right Yeah, So, um, I think

890
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 1: that's that's very well. I do feel like the whole

891
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 1: meta plot of Paul Riser faking presumably now that I'm

892
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how it's you're supposed to read it,

893
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 1: but I kind of thought the beginning was supposed to

894
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:53,279
Speaker 1: be revealed to be like a setup and part of

895
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:57,759
Speaker 1: the manipulation, Like so he got her fired, believed her

896
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:00,400
Speaker 1: the whole time, but was like this only way I

897
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:03,320
Speaker 1: can get her on the planet. Maybe, I think so? Maybe? Okay,

898
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:06,720
Speaker 1: So given that like it is a little bit like gender.

899
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 1: The way that all went down, it felt like, I

900
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 1: don't know how I can see that just kind of

901
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 1: manipulate a woman in that way, whereas I assume that

902
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 1: you could. You wouldn't, Yeah, you wouldn't do that to

903
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:21,320
Speaker 1: a man like a corporate right, that's probably not And

904
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 1: especially because he targets Ripley and Newt as being the

905
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 1: ones that he's going to try to get the face

906
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 1: huggers to impregnate, essentially so that he can carry the

907
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 1: yeah exactly, so he can carry the yeah. We didn't

908
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 1: even get to the fact that he's raping for business

909
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 1: in this movie, but the one other I mean, this

910
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:43,919
Speaker 1: movie calls less attention to gender, I think to its

911
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 1: strength a lot of the time and shows again it's

912
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 1: like an element of restraint. This movie shows that most

913
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 1: movies today would not because every male dominated art form

914
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:56,920
Speaker 1: right now is dying to tell you how much they

915
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 1: respect women simply gushing. But I will say that this movie,

916
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:05,880
Speaker 1: like and And if it is true that the conservative

917
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 1: values like we're felt represented by this movie, I think

918
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 1: it is because we have this very strong, capable female protagonist.

919
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:17,320
Speaker 1: But you do have and it works in this story,

920
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 1: but it is a deliberate choice to have the maternal

921
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 1: b plot added of like, oh, but also she can

922
00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:27,800
Speaker 1: be maternal and gentle and she longs for motherhood and like,

923
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 1: this is an element of her that cannot be denied,

924
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 1: which is not the case and not representative of every woman.

925
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 1: So you can't just save a child because you don't

926
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 1: want to see a kid die, Like, come on you, mmy, Yeah,

927
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 1: I can see that happening and being justified more if

928
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 1: in the first movie it's set up that she has

929
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 1: a daughter that she left behind, but they deliberately add

930
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:55,360
Speaker 1: that detail into this movie that hadn't previously been established,

931
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:57,719
Speaker 1: so that means that that did not need to be established.

932
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:00,400
Speaker 1: And if they do just find a kid, yeah, she

933
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily need to be extremely maternal about it. She

934
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:05,279
Speaker 1: can just be like, Hey, I'm going to help make

935
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,400
Speaker 1: sure this kid doesn't die. This greasy little Girls your boss,

936
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:13,600
Speaker 1: which could have another option, greasy little boss. Yeah. I

937
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 1: guess the Jim really intentionally shoehorns that in and and

938
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 1: again I think for this movie, it does work, and

939
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 1: it helps build out the backstory and interior life of

940
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 1: Ripley in a way that the first movie kind of doesn't.

941
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:32,440
Speaker 1: But also the fact that he defaults to, like, oh,

942
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 1: how is a way I can give this female character

943
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 1: some depth? Mommy, Yeah, that's all I can think of?

944
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:41,680
Speaker 1: Is right, Like, it's effective, but it's also kind of

945
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:44,120
Speaker 1: a default. But that's also a trump that is usually

946
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 1: given to men. So I think it's at least interesting that,

947
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:51,880
Speaker 1: like the dead daughter Trumpe being used to characteristic characterized characters.

948
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:55,360
Speaker 1: Usually it's not mad Tom Hardy and mad Max Fury,

949
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 1: Max my daughter, I miss her. I'm quiet. My movie

950
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 1: is bad, that's my Max is so good. I'm I'm

951
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 1: I'm completely alone in that opinion, and that just has

952
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:11,120
Speaker 1: to be fine. I've been alone in that opinion for

953
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 1: years and I'm fine. Yeah. You just don't like difficult,

954
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:17,839
Speaker 1: spiky places. I don't like steampunk imagery. I don't like

955
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 1: that's what this is too. I don't like the Orange

956
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:24,879
Speaker 1: and Blue movies. I guess this is Yeah, bio punk

957
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 1: is another triggering phrase. There any any movie where it's

958
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:33,480
Speaker 1: like the Orange Blue movie posters? Yeah, that's all. Yeah,

959
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:37,439
Speaker 1: I love I'm here for it. Here. Let me talk

960
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 1: about some of my favorite moments that demonstrate Ripley as

961
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:45,440
Speaker 1: being a smart person, as being a smart smart smart,

962
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 1: a good, a big smart. She's the one who figures

963
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 1: out that the soldiers can't fire their weapons in a

964
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:54,520
Speaker 1: certain place because it'll basically cause a nuclear reaction. So

965
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:58,319
Speaker 1: after the first alien attack, a bunch of people die.

966
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:01,040
Speaker 1: Gorman is like, who don't know what to do? And

967
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:06,839
Speaker 1: she grabs him, shakes him and screams do something. He

968
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:10,719
Speaker 1: doesn't do anything, So then she basically takes over and

969
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 1: starts giving orders and takes the wheel, drives whatever vehicle

970
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:18,120
Speaker 1: they're in, and goes and saves the survivors. There's a

971
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 1: point where Bill Paxston is throwing a fit and screaming, screaming.

972
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:33,000
Speaker 1: She yells diamond um. She says, I'm stickier bullshit, because

973
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:37,000
Speaker 1: while he is freaking out, she is level headed and

974
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:39,239
Speaker 1: knows what needs to happen. She's like, give me the

975
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:41,719
Speaker 1: fucking plans so that we can find the air vent.

976
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 1: Since ship do you think it's? Sigourney Weaver and Bill Paxston.

977
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 1: We're friends, I hope, so that would be so nice.

978
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:53,080
Speaker 1: Oh I'm gonna look it up. Okay, say yeah? And

979
00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:57,439
Speaker 1: then oh Ripley screams at Burke for being a capitalist. Also,

980
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:01,840
Speaker 1: this movie I feel like is anti colonialism as well,

981
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 1: for sure, because all the colonists die the end. Also,

982
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 1: I think this movie is a pro choice because Sigourney

983
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:17,360
Speaker 1: Weaver kills the alien flat babies with a flamethrower, which, okay,

984
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 1: leads me to one of many climactic sequences in this

985
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:26,480
Speaker 1: movie where she does like the last big rescue at

986
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 1: the end, she goes in and rescues Newts, and that

987
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:35,520
Speaker 1: whole sequence is all female characters because it's Ripley Newt,

988
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 1: the alien queen, and the automated female voice, which I

989
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:41,920
Speaker 1: don't know if we ever learned her name or not,

990
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:46,880
Speaker 1: but like basically the like and the tone of the

991
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:50,360
Speaker 1: automated female voice is kind of actually, she's got a

992
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 1: little tuned and that voice. At first, what's that phrase

993
00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 1: she kept saying. It was something to like get out.

994
00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 1: She's like, yeah, you only have like fifty minutes. Excuse

995
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:05,919
Speaker 1: doing here? Excuse me, just a quick update. Sigourney Weaver

996
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:10,240
Speaker 1: was sad Bill Packson died. Okay, she looks like, I'm

997
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:16,840
Speaker 1: go good finally. But so in this sequence, all these

998
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:20,480
Speaker 1: surviving male characters, which is only Bishop and Hicks, are

999
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 1: treated the way that a lot of female characters are

1000
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:25,640
Speaker 1: in action movies, which is that they are completely sidelined

1001
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 1: and not given anything to do. Ripley saves herself, She

1002
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 1: saves Newt. She does not need to be saved by

1003
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:38,480
Speaker 1: a man a little earlier there. Yeah, she is saved,

1004
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:42,280
Speaker 1: but only because, like, she tries very hard to save herself,

1005
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:45,760
Speaker 1: and these things have proven to be nearly impossible to

1006
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 1: fight off and it takes like three or four men

1007
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:51,000
Speaker 1: to pull the thing off of her. So I didn't

1008
00:58:51,240 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 1: hate that, especially because then she does go on to

1009
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:56,640
Speaker 1: save herself and have all the agency at the end

1010
00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:59,120
Speaker 1: of the movie. I agree. So I was. I was

1011
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:01,720
Speaker 1: worried because that was the point of the in the

1012
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 1: movie where I was like, this could be the climactic scene,

1013
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 1: because this movie could be over soon because it's pretty

1014
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:11,919
Speaker 1: much done, but because it's actually sixty five scenes before

1015
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 1: the movie actually answered so long, Well, we need that

1016
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:18,360
Speaker 1: scene where she's just got away from her you rich, Yeah,

1017
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:21,000
Speaker 1: but let's just go to that scene. Did we need

1018
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:23,400
Speaker 1: the scorpion scene? Although I did really like when she

1019
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 1: and Knut were banging on the glass and they're like,

1020
00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:32,400
Speaker 1: is can anyone hear us? I was like, I feel you. Um,

1021
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:34,600
Speaker 1: I feel like one of the reasons I brought this

1022
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 1: up it was because when like shitty film guys talk

1023
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:41,920
Speaker 1: about the backdel test, specifically the like well technically like

1024
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:46,200
Speaker 1: the queen aliens like a woman. That's That's kind of

1025
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:47,520
Speaker 1: why I thought it would be funny to bring this

1026
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 1: to the podcast. But then I forgot that at least

1027
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 1: and aliens probably an alien. There's like enough other stuff.

1028
00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:57,840
Speaker 1: I actually thought this whole podcast was going to be

1029
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:04,120
Speaker 1: a debate about whether, like screeching violently constitutes dialogue. What

1030
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:06,640
Speaker 1: is the queen saying? We don't know, is she talking

1031
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:09,040
Speaker 1: about a man? She might be like, you killed my son?

1032
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:11,600
Speaker 1: You killed my son? Should be like I think Bill

1033
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:16,160
Speaker 1: Paxton's doing a great job in this movie. Fine, he's fine.

1034
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:21,080
Speaker 1: Big Love is a good show. He's a capable character actor,

1035
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:23,440
Speaker 1: but no one calls him a character actor because he's hot.

1036
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:29,200
Speaker 1: Rest Paradise, Rest in past in Paradise, Rest in Paxiston.

1037
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:34,000
Speaker 1: Oh Paxton, my Packiston. Oh there's another quick scene I

1038
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:37,400
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about, where it's wearing. They first find

1039
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:42,280
Speaker 1: Newt and Ripley is like cleaning off nuts face and

1040
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:44,880
Speaker 1: she's like, oh, hard to believe there's a little girl

1041
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:48,880
Speaker 1: under this, because again she is covered in just slime

1042
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:52,760
Speaker 1: and goop and dirt. She's a slippery little girl because slippery.

1043
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:54,880
Speaker 1: So yeah, she's like hard to believe there's a little

1044
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:58,080
Speaker 1: girl under this dot dot dot and a pretty one too,

1045
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:02,400
Speaker 1: which is not a line that Ripley needs to say.

1046
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:04,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. Maybe she's trying to lift

1047
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:09,400
Speaker 1: her spirits because granted, her parents were murdered by aliens

1048
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:11,880
Speaker 1: and she's the only one left alive on this planet.

1049
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:15,560
Speaker 1: But I think it's just goes to show that girls

1050
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:19,640
Speaker 1: and women are often only appreciated for the way they

1051
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:21,640
Speaker 1: look and only talked about in the context of the

1052
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:25,360
Speaker 1: way they look, whereas little boys are complimented about being

1053
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:29,320
Speaker 1: smart and being athletic and being all kinds of other things.

1054
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 1: I think, and and that's like one of those interesting

1055
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:34,840
Speaker 1: little uncanny moments where you're like, oh, this movie was

1056
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 1: written by a guy, like it's just one of the yeah,

1057
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:41,040
Speaker 1: but then a movie that large, because how else would

1058
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:45,440
Speaker 1: a guy imagine you comfort a little girl exactly exactly

1059
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:48,480
Speaker 1: like how would a mom comfort a young girl call

1060
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:53,560
Speaker 1: her pretty? But then there's several scenes later where Ripley's

1061
01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:57,800
Speaker 1: like she survived without any training or weapons, Like, she's

1062
01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:00,600
Speaker 1: clearly very competent. There are those who seems where she

1063
01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:03,400
Speaker 1: kind of condescends to her and new It is like,

1064
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:07,000
Speaker 1: I'm not an idiot, I know that plastic dollheads can't

1065
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:09,640
Speaker 1: have bad dreams. And she's like, oh yeah, like I

1066
01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 1: mean that's I like that moment. Yeah, exactly. So it

1067
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 1: would have been awesome in that like training our weapons

1068
01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:16,800
Speaker 1: monologue if she then was like, and that's why I'm

1069
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:20,400
Speaker 1: giving this four year old girl a plasma rifle. Here

1070
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:26,040
Speaker 1: you go, she's eleven whatever? Sorry, yeah, I think so

1071
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:29,360
Speaker 1: that's crazy. I was seven, I said for because my

1072
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:31,880
Speaker 1: brain shut off. She might not be. Maybe I'm just

1073
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:34,920
Speaker 1: thinking she's eleven because that's how old Ripley's daughter was whenever.

1074
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:38,840
Speaker 1: She's probably eleven. I don't know how old any kid ever. Anyway,

1075
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:42,160
Speaker 1: Look I'm saying, is preteen with a plasma rifle. I'm

1076
01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:44,680
Speaker 1: for it. I would see it, Yeah, I would see it.

1077
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:48,080
Speaker 1: I'm mostly for it. Mostly. Oh my god, you're making

1078
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:52,440
Speaker 1: so many of those jobs for the child. Actor who

1079
01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:57,080
Speaker 1: played Newt is a teacher. Now, Oh cool, isn't that

1080
01:02:57,120 --> 01:02:59,240
Speaker 1: what happens in the beginning of Alien three, they're just

1081
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:03,640
Speaker 1: like title hard style, like, oh Newt died spaceship crash. Yeah,

1082
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:07,680
Speaker 1: they do kill her. They do kill her. They're like,

1083
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 1: she had the call to pursue the most noble profession.

1084
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:14,280
Speaker 1: There's actually a couple of things I did want to

1085
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:17,480
Speaker 1: say about Alien three, because it feels like the first

1086
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:22,240
Speaker 1: of the Alien movies where gender is largely commented on,

1087
01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:26,800
Speaker 1: because it's generally pretty ignored in the first two Alien movies.

1088
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:30,400
Speaker 1: Ripley crash lands on to a planet where there's like

1089
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 1: a penal quality full of men with why y chromosomes,

1090
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:39,520
Speaker 1: which is not a real thing. I don't but I

1091
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:42,880
Speaker 1: guess they're implying that these men are so masculine that

1092
01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:47,360
Speaker 1: they have many white chromosomes. And the whole time everyone's like, oh, no,

1093
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:50,480
Speaker 1: you're a woman, and we're going to be horny because

1094
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:53,800
Speaker 1: we're murderers and rapists of women, and she's going to

1095
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:59,200
Speaker 1: cause trouble. Real come fueled decision. Also, in Alien three,

1096
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:03,120
Speaker 1: Ripley is given a love interest, So there's some interesting things,

1097
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:05,320
Speaker 1: and by interesting I mean things I don't I don't

1098
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:08,440
Speaker 1: like about Alien three. Do they kind of try to

1099
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:12,200
Speaker 1: give her and Hicks a moment and it seems like,

1100
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:14,080
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I did actually want to talk about where

1101
01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:16,840
Speaker 1: there's that scene where she's trying to learn how to

1102
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:21,040
Speaker 1: use his plasma rifle. He's like standing behind her and

1103
01:04:21,120 --> 01:04:24,000
Speaker 1: like has his arms kind of around her, showing her

1104
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 1: how to do different stuff, and that's played in a

1105
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:29,480
Speaker 1: lot of movies. Were like, look at this flirtatious moment

1106
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:31,840
Speaker 1: where like a man's trying to teach a woman how

1107
01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 1: to swing a tennis racket, and it's like all hot

1108
01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:38,720
Speaker 1: and flirtatious, like what Jim Cameron does on his dates

1109
01:04:38,760 --> 01:04:42,600
Speaker 1: with like how to use the personal submarine. Oh my god,

1110
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:46,560
Speaker 1: it's like I've actually got some pretty cool summers. You

1111
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:48,000
Speaker 1: want if you want to drive it, you want to

1112
01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:52,080
Speaker 1: try didn't hold the wheel. But in this movie, I

1113
01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:54,840
Speaker 1: think it's handled better. And yet I think there's like

1114
01:04:54,880 --> 01:04:59,120
Speaker 1: a hint of like maybe they're in each other. Right.

1115
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:02,840
Speaker 1: It's very weird and very unnecessary. But in the scene

1116
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:05,520
Speaker 1: where she's like learning to use that gun, at first,

1117
01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:07,280
Speaker 1: I was like a scene where a man's teaching a

1118
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:08,680
Speaker 1: woman how to use a thing. But I'm like, gosh,

1119
01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:11,120
Speaker 1: she is from the past, so she probably wouldn't know

1120
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:12,880
Speaker 1: how to use it. Well, she also asked him how

1121
01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:15,600
Speaker 1: to use it, So yeah, he wasn't telling you something

1122
01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:18,200
Speaker 1: she knew right right, So he was not man splanning

1123
01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:21,520
Speaker 1: to her. He was just explaining. Sometimes man can't explain

1124
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:25,919
Speaker 1: without man splaining. Sometimes, don't tell them that, mostly don't.

1125
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:31,760
Speaker 1: Mostly they can do that mostly anyway. Um, does anyone

1126
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:36,360
Speaker 1: have any final thoughts about Aliens? Alpha Molina could have

1127
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:42,760
Speaker 1: been in this movie? Um as newt Oh, he's a chameleon.

1128
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:45,360
Speaker 1: He could have played a slippery kid like do it

1129
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 1: with forced perspective, like standing in really far away a

1130
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:52,000
Speaker 1: very expensive process. Or he could have played any of

1131
01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:55,600
Speaker 1: the aliens in a Little Green. He could have gone

1132
01:05:55,640 --> 01:05:59,680
Speaker 1: full Andy Sirkus, sure you played the aliens, or he

1133
01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:01,840
Speaker 1: could of play well he could, you know, he could

1134
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:06,720
Speaker 1: play Jones the cat. He also could have played the

1135
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:10,200
Speaker 1: queen mother. You know, he's that versatile. One last thing

1136
01:06:10,200 --> 01:06:13,920
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about was all of the vaginal

1137
01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:21,320
Speaker 1: birth straight up upskirt of an egg laying. Yes, so

1138
01:06:22,160 --> 01:06:25,560
Speaker 1: the Queen Aliens for that was in there. She has

1139
01:06:26,120 --> 01:06:29,720
Speaker 1: what seems to be an external vagina, which I think

1140
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:33,160
Speaker 1: is extremely sex positive if you ask me, and very

1141
01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:37,840
Speaker 1: perfectly detachable because she literally rips herself off of it.

1142
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:41,960
Speaker 1: It looks painful. I don't need this right now, and

1143
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:45,200
Speaker 1: I feel like one of the scariest things about like

1144
01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:48,920
Speaker 1: this movie and the first Alien movie is like the

1145
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 1: way the aliens jest state and like like the queen

1146
01:06:54,120 --> 01:06:57,959
Speaker 1: lazy eggs and then inside those eggs like face thing

1147
01:06:58,120 --> 01:07:01,080
Speaker 1: and that attaches to your face and pregnant your chest,

1148
01:07:01,520 --> 01:07:04,720
Speaker 1: and then that dies, and then an infant alien bursts

1149
01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:07,080
Speaker 1: out of your chest and then it takes what seems

1150
01:07:07,080 --> 01:07:10,480
Speaker 1: like only an hour to grow to adulthood, and then

1151
01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:12,439
Speaker 1: and then it becomes this terrifying thing. So I don't

1152
01:07:12,440 --> 01:07:15,920
Speaker 1: know if like, is that like the writers and filmmakers

1153
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:19,680
Speaker 1: who are largely men uh in these movies, is that

1154
01:07:19,720 --> 01:07:22,600
Speaker 1: a way for them to be like, look how gross

1155
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:27,760
Speaker 1: and scary childbirth is and how little we understand. The

1156
01:07:28,320 --> 01:07:32,880
Speaker 1: movie monsters in general, right are just like manifestations of anxieties,

1157
01:07:33,280 --> 01:07:36,760
Speaker 1: and men are scared of vagina is a lot because

1158
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:39,880
Speaker 1: they don't understand it. Some movie monsters represent communism, other

1159
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:43,560
Speaker 1: movie monsters represent women because it's something that the author

1160
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:48,280
Speaker 1: is uh afraid of and doesn't understand. For for this movie,

1161
01:07:49,080 --> 01:07:54,280
Speaker 1: it works because when we see like male protagonists slaying

1162
01:07:54,360 --> 01:08:01,680
Speaker 1: the vagina and conquering the vagina monster, that is net negative.

1163
01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:06,520
Speaker 1: Having a female protagonist confront and defeat the vagina monster.

1164
01:08:06,840 --> 01:08:10,560
Speaker 1: I don't know what that is. It's more interesting. I

1165
01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:12,880
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, I think it's it's definitely a

1166
01:08:12,920 --> 01:08:15,240
Speaker 1: trope being recycled here, but it didn't bother me in

1167
01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:18,160
Speaker 1: this movie. Yeah, I don't think any real commentary is

1168
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:20,439
Speaker 1: being made. I don't think so either, But I don't

1169
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:24,120
Speaker 1: think it's setting things back either. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I

1170
01:08:24,120 --> 01:08:26,320
Speaker 1: would agree with it's not regressive, But it's also like

1171
01:08:26,479 --> 01:08:29,240
Speaker 1: it's all just just like, well, here's you haven't seen this.

1172
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:34,880
Speaker 1: I think you seen a giant queen bee alien rip

1173
01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:38,519
Speaker 1: her own external vagina off of her to a woman

1174
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:43,960
Speaker 1: to fight a woman. Yet until nine, right, isn't that

1175
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:45,800
Speaker 1: the whole thing with the hr Geiger. It's like all

1176
01:08:45,840 --> 01:08:49,400
Speaker 1: those drawings are like, you know, everything is infused with

1177
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:52,559
Speaker 1: like sex organs from everything, and it's like the idea

1178
01:08:52,720 --> 01:08:56,680
Speaker 1: is like the horror of that. So, quoting a paraphrasing

1179
01:08:56,720 --> 01:08:58,760
Speaker 1: what I would imagine they would say, it's like the

1180
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:04,439
Speaker 1: horror of that confus fusion is what some Swedish dude,

1181
01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:08,880
Speaker 1: w h think something like some white dude thinks it's

1182
01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:12,200
Speaker 1: the scariest thing in the world. Yeah. Um, let's talk

1183
01:09:12,240 --> 01:09:14,639
Speaker 1: about whether or not this movie passes the Bechtel test

1184
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:20,160
Speaker 1: a few times. There is a moment where Ripley and

1185
01:09:20,280 --> 01:09:24,120
Speaker 1: Basquez are talking and she's talking about what happened in

1186
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:30,400
Speaker 1: the first alien movie, and then Basquez like the first Yeah,

1187
01:09:30,640 --> 01:09:34,240
Speaker 1: what happens um. Vasquez is like, look, man, I only

1188
01:09:34,240 --> 01:09:37,000
Speaker 1: need to know one thing where they are? But she

1189
01:09:37,080 --> 01:09:43,240
Speaker 1: does say, look, man, so interesting and they they is ambiguous.

1190
01:09:43,439 --> 01:09:49,439
Speaker 1: Well do we know the sex of the aliens? I think, well,

1191
01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:52,479
Speaker 1: I think a caveat for the Bechtel test is that

1192
01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:55,760
Speaker 1: are they talking about human men? And if it's an

1193
01:09:55,760 --> 01:09:58,920
Speaker 1: animal or a xeno more for whatever, it doesn't matter.

1194
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:04,240
Speaker 1: I don't think yeah, so I would say that passes. Uh.

1195
01:10:04,280 --> 01:10:08,400
Speaker 1: And then Ripley and Newt talk a lot um. Sometimes

1196
01:10:08,439 --> 01:10:12,840
Speaker 1: they mentioned nuts little brother or like her dad, but

1197
01:10:13,080 --> 01:10:15,840
Speaker 1: several of those scenes to pass the Backtel test. The

1198
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:18,840
Speaker 1: scene where Newts says we should go back inside because

1199
01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:24,640
Speaker 1: they mostly come out at night. Mostly that passes the

1200
01:10:24,640 --> 01:10:27,120
Speaker 1: Bechtel tests, Thank you so much. And then there's the

1201
01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:29,120
Speaker 1: scene at the end where Ripley says, get away from her,

1202
01:10:29,120 --> 01:10:33,880
Speaker 1: are you bitch? And then I think all the scenes

1203
01:10:34,240 --> 01:10:37,599
Speaker 1: between Sigourney Weaver and the Jack Vagina's past, whether there's

1204
01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:42,320
Speaker 1: dialogue being spoken or not. Yeah, it's a massive asterisk scene. Yeah.

1205
01:10:42,400 --> 01:10:49,200
Speaker 1: So the movie passes the beachdel test. Let's gotta go, right,

1206
01:10:49,960 --> 01:10:53,240
Speaker 1: oh ship, Yes, I very much have to go. Guys, sorry,

1207
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:56,360
Speaker 1: this was so fun than you. Yeah, thanks for I

1208
01:10:56,360 --> 01:10:58,479
Speaker 1: didn't want you to be too late. Oh no, thank you.

1209
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:03,200
Speaker 1: I spy. Okay, So let's write the movie on our

1210
01:11:03,280 --> 01:11:06,959
Speaker 1: nipple scale zero to five nipples based on portrayal of women. Um,

1211
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:09,439
Speaker 1: I would give it. I'm gonna give it a four.

1212
01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:14,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take nipples off for the character of Vesquez

1213
01:11:15,080 --> 01:11:18,519
Speaker 1: being a Latina character but not being played by a

1214
01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:21,720
Speaker 1: Latina actress. Dog, and one for brown face. Yeah, yep.

1215
01:11:22,520 --> 01:11:25,280
Speaker 1: There's a few other, you know, small gripes where, yeah,

1216
01:11:25,439 --> 01:11:27,360
Speaker 1: like Ripley does have to do this thing where she

1217
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:29,320
Speaker 1: has to prove herself to a man. She's like, hey,

1218
01:11:29,360 --> 01:11:31,840
Speaker 1: look I can drive a forklift that you didn't think

1219
01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:35,320
Speaker 1: I could do, and they're like, oh he he wow wow.

1220
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:38,360
Speaker 1: But I would say, by and large apart from a

1221
01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:40,920
Speaker 1: few like lines of dialogue here and there that are

1222
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:42,960
Speaker 1: just like that could have been cut and the movie

1223
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:46,200
Speaker 1: would be better. This movie does. I would even go

1224
01:11:46,280 --> 01:11:49,160
Speaker 1: so far as to say an excellent job depicting women

1225
01:11:49,439 --> 01:11:53,360
Speaker 1: in an action blockbuster, especially considering the error that it

1226
01:11:53,439 --> 01:11:57,080
Speaker 1: came out in the mid eighties. Ripley is in the

1227
01:11:57,080 --> 01:12:00,759
Speaker 1: movie because they need her. She's the only one who

1228
01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:04,360
Speaker 1: can provide the information that they need to get their

1229
01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:08,719
Speaker 1: mission accomplished. Right. Without her, the movie cannot take place right. Also, yeah,

1230
01:12:08,720 --> 01:12:12,479
Speaker 1: she's level headed, she's smart, she's a good, strong leader.

1231
01:12:12,960 --> 01:12:16,640
Speaker 1: And the other female characters, the fact that they're in

1232
01:12:16,680 --> 01:12:19,960
Speaker 1: the movie at all is shouldn't be surprising, but it

1233
01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:24,759
Speaker 1: was considering, right, But I do like that it attempted

1234
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:29,280
Speaker 1: to be more inclusive than most action movies, especially of

1235
01:12:29,320 --> 01:12:33,400
Speaker 1: this era, and that those female characters are generally pretty

1236
01:12:33,439 --> 01:12:36,479
Speaker 1: well developed and interesting. Yes, so I'm gonna give it

1237
01:12:36,720 --> 01:12:39,840
Speaker 1: four nipples, and all four of my nipples go to

1238
01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:44,600
Speaker 1: the Queen Alien Cool. I'll give it for as well. Obviously,

1239
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:47,240
Speaker 1: we don't need to tell our audience that actors of

1240
01:12:47,280 --> 01:12:50,640
Speaker 1: any gender in brown phase is absolutely unacceptable, and it

1241
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:54,759
Speaker 1: just it sucks because that casting choice to some extent,

1242
01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:57,320
Speaker 1: like lessons the impact of what is a very well

1243
01:12:57,320 --> 01:13:01,200
Speaker 1: written character that pisces me off. But for all the

1244
01:13:01,240 --> 01:13:03,519
Speaker 1: reasons you said, the fact that this movie cannot the

1245
01:13:03,560 --> 01:13:07,240
Speaker 1: plot can't move forward without its female characters, which even

1246
01:13:07,280 --> 01:13:12,280
Speaker 1: in action movies where there are capable women present, the

1247
01:13:12,360 --> 01:13:16,400
Speaker 1: presence of those women isn't necessarily critical to the core

1248
01:13:16,439 --> 01:13:19,280
Speaker 1: action of the movie taking place. That's not the case

1249
01:13:19,320 --> 01:13:22,160
Speaker 1: for this and that is amazing and also shouldn't be

1250
01:13:22,200 --> 01:13:25,760
Speaker 1: amazing obvious. Yeah, I think that jim cam to this

1251
01:13:25,800 --> 01:13:28,280
Speaker 1: one pretty pretty damn well. Yes, I think it was

1252
01:13:28,479 --> 01:13:32,120
Speaker 1: a solid Jim Cam. I still think it's so fucking boring.

1253
01:13:32,200 --> 01:13:37,360
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. It was very long and vaginal imagery will

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01:13:37,439 --> 01:13:40,160
Speaker 1: get me in the seat. But the fact that it's

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01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:43,040
Speaker 1: a it's a real blue and orange, and that's that's

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01:13:43,040 --> 01:13:46,360
Speaker 1: when I'm calling every movie I don't like from now on. Yeah,

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01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:48,240
Speaker 1: it was never gonna be for me, but the way

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01:13:48,280 --> 01:13:52,240
Speaker 1: it treats this female characters is by and large pretty exceptional.

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01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:57,040
Speaker 1: So four nippies, I'm gonna toss two to slippery Little

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01:13:57,280 --> 01:14:01,160
Speaker 1: newt Uh, and then I'll give the other two to

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01:14:01,240 --> 01:14:05,760
Speaker 1: Paxxton Cool. Sorry, Sigourney from me. Yeah. Wow, that was

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01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:09,320
Speaker 1: a surprising turn of events. Just now listen rest In Paxton.

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01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:14,400
Speaker 1: Andrew had to leave before we could get his social media.

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01:14:14,479 --> 01:14:17,760
Speaker 1: I'll plug it. Yeah. You can find Andrew T online

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01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:22,040
Speaker 1: at andrew T I believe across all platforms. It is

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01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:25,400
Speaker 1: just his name. The last name is spelled T. I

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01:14:25,479 --> 01:14:29,240
Speaker 1: like the rapper um and you can also listen to

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01:14:29,320 --> 01:14:33,599
Speaker 1: his wonderful podcast he is this racist. Highly recommend yes, indeed,

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01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:37,400
Speaker 1: so thank you Andrew T for being here. Hey, thanks

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01:14:37,520 --> 01:14:45,479
Speaker 1: you wow, thank you. Thanks for and you can follow

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01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:50,920
Speaker 1: us on social media as well at bectol cast on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook.

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01:14:51,120 --> 01:14:56,040
Speaker 1: You can subscribe to our Matreon. You will get to

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01:14:56,560 --> 01:15:01,120
Speaker 1: bonus episodes every single month, and we appreciate all of

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01:15:01,160 --> 01:15:04,759
Speaker 1: our matrons so much. Shout out to our matrons. Everything.

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01:15:04,960 --> 01:15:11,280
Speaker 1: In conclusion, don't see Deadpool two. Mostly mostly okay. Bye,