WEBVTT - DOJ Weighs Breaking Up Google 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:06.760 From Mahard where Innovations, Money and Power Collie in Silicon Valley, NBN. 0:00:07.040 --> 0:00:11.559 This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow. 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:27.040 Live from Los Angeles and San Francisco. 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:30.360 This is Bloomberg Technology coming up, cracking down on big tech. 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:33.920 The DOJ considering a historic breakup of Google. 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:38.200 More than a dozen US states filing lawsuits against TikTok 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:40.960 will be joined by New Jersey's Attorney general. 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:45.280 And we're live from Citadel's Global Macro Conference in New York. 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:48.760 A conversation with the CEO, Pengzau is coming up. 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:52.240 First, Let's go to our top story. Shares of alphabet 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:53.159 are lower. 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:55.640 Today by one point six percent. That's after the DOJ 0:00:55.840 --> 0:00:59.279 is weighing a breakup of Google over its monopolistic dominance 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:00.480 of online search. 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:02.720 Be goes straight to the report. Who's been all over this? 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:07.000 Bloomberg's Leah Lyle and Leah. You reported this back in 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:10.160 August that this might be a consideration and the DOJ 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:13.440 would put this to the judge. What's moved on from 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:18.080 that reporting, Leah. 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:19.600 Yes, so now we are actually getting into the revenues phase. 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:22.319 So last night the Justice Department put its first filing 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:24.959 in it actually just lead out a framework of various 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:28.000 things that it's thinking about as it is crafting a 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:32.040 remedy proposal. They're going to have an official proposal that 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:34.640 lays out everything that they want Google to do on 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:38.000 November twentieth. But this was just sort of like, here's 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:41.280 what we're thinking. These are some of the options. And 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:43.480 the big one, of course, was the breakup. 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:46.920 Okay, so let's get into that timeline you mentioned November 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:49.440 twenty if we'll bring it up on the screen. The 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:52.400 first is the sort of firming of the proposals. Then 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:55.560 Google gets a chance next April we'll have a trial, 0:01:56.000 --> 0:01:59.000 and then by August I think of twenty twenty five, 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:01.120 we might get some sort of decision. 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:04.320 Explain all of that, please, Leah. Yes. 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:07.440 So DOJ is going to put its filing in that 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:09.960 says this is exactly what we want, you know, whether 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:13.359 that's a breakup, data sharing, all those things, and then 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:16.080 Google gets a chance to respond. Over the next couple months, 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:20.000 they're going to be doing a lot more discovery again, 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:22.040 so they're going to do interviews with Google folks, They're 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:24.480 going to get more documents all leading up to this 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:28.200 big two week remedy trial that will take place late 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:32.240 April in that they're going to have witnesses testify before 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:35.160 the judge about what would actually happen to Google's business 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:38.720 if he takes any of these particular actions. And then 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:41.320 he has promised that he will issue a decision in 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:44.320 August of next year that officially wraps up the case 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:47.800 at the trial court, and then Google can start its appeal. 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:51.040 The appeal, you know, takes like eighteen months to two years, 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:54.600 so we're looking at like August for the sort of 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:57.080 like first big deadline, and then we'll go into the 0:02:57.080 --> 0:02:59.720 appeals and then you know, maybe some of this would 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:02.320 be take place like as eighteen months to two years 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:02.760 from now. 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:08.960 From then, Let's just go to Google's own response, because 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:11.799 the US judge is saying that Google's distribution agreements full 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:15.280 close a substantial portion of the general search services market 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:17.400 and impair rivals opportunities to compete. 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:18.440 That's the judges take. 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:22.320 Google's take, Is it this is pretty radical right near? 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:23.919 Yes? 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:27.080 I mean Google said what you found was illegal is 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:30.080 these specific contracts. So DOJ should be focusing on the 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:32.160 contracts and just looking at those. 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:34.040 They say, you. 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:36.400 Know that these these things that the Justice Department is 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:39.520 proposing go way beyond those contracts. They're talking about, you know, 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:42.000 breaking up our company. They're talking about making us sell 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:44.880 off Chrome, which wasn't even really part of the case 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:48.320 that much because Google owns Chrome, and so it is 0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:51.160 pushing back pretty hard on a lot of these remedies, 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:55.520 the breakup in particular. The other thing that they have 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:58.200 said is, you know, the Justice Department says that AI 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:00.760 is a very big issue here because a lot of 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:04.480 the data that Google uses to build its search results 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:06.920 is the same data that is used to build its 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:10.320 AI products. And the Justice Department says that Google shouldn't 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:13.120 sort of get to benefit from the illegal conduct in 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:15.480 the search market, in the AI market, and so it 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:17.800 wants to put some limits on that. And Google says, 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:21.159 wait a second, we were talking about search, that's not AI. 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:23.920 You shouldn't get to like make some limits on us 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:27.760 in this completely other different field. So that will be 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:29.839 a big issue for the judge to decide next year. 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:33.159 Bloombos lea nil in a late night for you in 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:37.120 DC in an early morning too important reporting, but the 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:40.480 stocks on the move. Meanwhile, Google CEO sind the pitch 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:43.680 I sat down with David Rubinstein for his show Pid 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:46.760 to Peer Conversations. He's a reminder about what he had 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:50.320 to say about the mounting legal woes and antitrust suits 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:51.279 from the DOJ. 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:55.480 We definitely disagree with the ruling, but be still in 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:59.039 the middle of the di remedys phase and you know 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:02.279 we will appeal. This process will likely take many years, 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:07.640 and you know, I'm confident given that you know, VR 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:12.960 focused on innovating using technology will do well in the 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:13.599 long run. 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:17.919 You can see that full interview tonight on the David 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:22.240 Rubinstein Show, Peer to Peer Conversations, nine pm New York Time. 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:26.080 Caroline, let's just dig into anti trust the risk to 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:29.479 big tech right now. Jason Bett's and Meerorprice Financial Private 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:32.640 wealth Advisor is with us. And look, the stock is 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:36.000 down for alphabet but by one point six percent, the 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:39.160 biggest move since all October the seventh. It doesn't feel 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:41.520 like many people are pricing in a breakup to this 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:42.560 extent right now? 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:44.719 Is it a risk? Anti trust issues? 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:51.680 Anti trust issues in general make a very, very an 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:54.880 eye catching headline. Certainly, it's what all of us are 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:58.400 talking about right now. We see this play out every 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:01.520 several years in the technology space and in pharmaceuticals and 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:05.440 and energy with the anti trust issues. My feeling is 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:08.839 it is it's such a long timeline and there's so 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:11.200 many what ifs that we can speculate on. But as 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:14.280 actual investors looking at fundamentals and trying to navigate this, 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:17.240 I really don't think there's anything that we should be 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:21.960 thinking about doing differently as we approach our investment portfolios. 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:26.359 Well, hold on the stocks down one point six percent 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:29.720 in a market that's up, and we showed that timeline, 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:32.720 so you get to August the next year, and a 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:38.479 hypothetical the judge orders the breakup. Now they'll counter it 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:40.800 in court, but let's say it happens. 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:42.360 How do you prepare for that? 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:46.560 I mean, you prepare for it like you prepare for 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:48.640 anything else, in my opinion, which is making sure that 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:51.320 everything within the investment portfolio looks okay under the hood, 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:56.159 and whether you know, regardless of any individual security, you 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:58.279 want to make sure that you don't have too much 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:00.560 exposure in anyone individual secure already. 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:02.800 Where if the worst case scenario does play out, that it. 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:05.599 Could have somewhat in reparable consequences on your financial future 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:09.000 or your wealth other than that, you know, with our firm, 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:11.040 we take a really holistic approach and we take a 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:14.560 discipline approach. So while this is a it's a very 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:17.320 eye catching headline today, it's something that we're going to 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:19.240 be talking about, certainly for the next couple of days, 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:20.480 if not for the next few weeks. 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:22.320 It's going to be a long process. 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:24.720 And the idea of trying to do anything differently with 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:28.040 positioning right now other than making sure that your that 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:33.160 your positions are not overweighted or underweighted for that matter, 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:36.080 I just don't really see anything else that that that 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:38.360 requires material attention right now today. 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:42.000 Well, it's interesting you use the phrase single security, but 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:46.320 basically most of the megacap tech names have some form 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:51.000 of antitrust scrutiny on them in multiple jurisdictions, and so 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:54.720 in aggregate, how much of an anxiety is it then, 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:56.840 if you think about it through that lens. 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:00.000 Yeah, I mean, if you're properly diversified, not that much 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:02.360 much of anxiety. Because if the worst case scenario is 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:04.400 what you see is some sort of shift in leadership 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:09.560 within you know, the more specialized technology sectors. So again, 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:12.760 it's just at these stages right now, Like I said, 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:15.520 we see this time and time again over my last 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:18.160 twenty seven years in this industry. Certainly with technology and 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:20.920 AI these stakes are higher, but we've seed it in 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:24.640 pharma and energy and technology in the past. Generally speaking, 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:29.480 we don't see a whole lot of you know, movement 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:33.480 materially within the markets or sometimes within the sectors as 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:35.240 a result of these anti trust headlines. 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:37.120 But time will tell. 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:38.240 Time will tell. 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:40.320 The anxiety here and now for the market in many 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:44.319 ways is what revenue, what profitability looks. 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:46.360 Like right here, right now for AI. 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:49.080 I know you've been thinking writing a lot on this, Jason, 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:52.480 and we actually get another good sign. T SMC's numbers 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:54.200 come in and they come in strong. We'll be digging 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:54.680 into that. 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:55.120 In a moment. 0:08:55.240 --> 0:08:57.600 But what are you getting in terms of a gut 0:08:57.679 --> 0:08:59.920 check on the valuations of these mega caps? 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:01.080 Yeah? 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:04.760 Absolutely, My gut check is that valuations are stretched. 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:05.000 Now. 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:07.000 Having said that, it's the markets, and the markets do 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:08.720 things that we don't expect. 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:09.040 All the time. 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:13.679 But if I look at the valuations and I look 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:16.160 at what, in my opinion is kind of a more 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:18.960 or less a best case scenario that's playing out in 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:21.400 terms of the expectations on future earnings. 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:22.719 It's tough to. 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:27.080 It's tough to see these levels go materially higher without 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:30.520 continued breakout positive data. That said, we've had that to 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:33.720 your point, and we may see that moving forward. But 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:36.320 I would just take it back again to making sure, 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:40.280 regardless of what happens moving forward, look under the hood 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:42.720 of the portfolio, make sure that you're not too overweighted 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:45.720 in any individual names or in any one particular sector. 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:51.320 What about therefore, the macro picture, if you're thinking about 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:54.280 anyone sector, Look, it's been impossible not to be overweight 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:57.400 and to be extraordinarily heavily weighted towards technology because of 0:09:57.400 --> 0:09:58.760 the year valuations. 0:09:58.280 --> 0:09:59.040 Of these companies. 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:02.640 How do you continue to rebalance, particularly when you're thinking 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:04.360 about what interest rates are up to? 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:09.120 Yeah, well, I mean, regardless of interest rates, when we're rebalanced, 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:11.760 and obviously we need to you know, we want to 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:13.920 do that. I think investors have actually gotten away from 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:15.880 that a lot over the last year or two, and 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:19.600 that's part of the reason why we've probably seen this 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:24.760 excessive leadership in these megacap technology stocks. But in terms 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:27.360 of other septors that I may like in the markets 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:31.559 right now, you know, I've said this for about the 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:33.760 last six to twelve months that I really like utilities, 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:35.720 not because I thought utilities would be out performing the 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:37.400 S and P over the last year year to date, 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:39.839 but just simply because they were so undervalued and the 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:43.959 valuations were delicious, and I think they're still attractive and 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:45.439 there's still room for growth there. 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:47.000 I like healthcare because of it. 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:50.240 It's because it has actually underperformed, and I think it 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:53.040 might be due for some mean reversion. And to your point, 0:10:53.040 --> 0:10:56.520 with interest rates, if and when they continue to come down, 0:10:57.000 --> 0:10:59.679 then that sets the table again for conversation about it. 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:03.040 More active mergers and acquisitions market that's good for healthcarecter, 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:04.240 especially good for biotech. 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:06.880 You mentioned utilities. 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:10.160 Are you one of many that are now interested in 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:14.160 this groundbreaking new field called nuclear energy that could be 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:18.679 powering all of the AI infrastructure investment that we'll see. 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:22.200 At this moment, I would say I would say no, 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:25.400 not in any above average fashion. We're obviously looking at 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:27.719 and considering all the information in the news and the 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:33.000 data points, but there's not any particular over over the 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:35.360 level over excitement, for lack of a better way to 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:38.160 put it, this time concerning that all right? 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:40.320 Oh, thanks to Jason Betts for Ameror Price. Good to 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:42.839 catch up and have you here on Bloomberg Technology. Now 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:46.079 coming up on the show, two DeepMind scientists and now 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:52.160 no Bell Prize winners for their research using artificial intelligence. 0:11:52.360 --> 0:12:09.319 Fascinating conversation to come. This is Bloomberg Technology to Google 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:14.080 DeepMind scientists and now Nobel Prize winners. They're sharing the 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:18.280 twenty twenty four Nobel Prize in Chemistry with US professors 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:23.000 for their breakthrough research into proteins, which were developed through AI. 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:27.320 Bloomberg's Mark Bergen reported on it and joins us from London. 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:31.720 I've never seen you Mark so excited about the intersection 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:33.959 of science and technology. 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:38.880 What have you been writing about? Oh, tremendously excited. 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:41.360 This is you know, this has actually come earlier than 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:43.599 we expected, but we knew it was something that the 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:47.839 co founder and CEO deep Mind, Demis Hassabis, who was 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:52.040 one of the award winners. This morning we've reported this 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:53.280 to something he's told colleagues. 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:54.960 This has been an ambition of his. 0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:58.560 Our colleague from the Bloomberg Opinion side, Primie also and 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:00.640 her great book. It just came out, I think she 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:03.160 said like he told people he wanted the company to 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:05.520 win at least three to five over the course in 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:08.000 the next few years. So perhaps this is the first 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:08.400 of many. 0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:12.320 Let's just go into John Jumper of deep Mind and 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:13.320 Demis Haseb. 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:14.800 What is it. 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:16.760 It's the Alpha fold work that they did. 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:20.160 Is that really what's pushed them to this first of 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:22.800 what maybe Demis hopes will be many Nobel prizes. 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:26.000 I think so, I mean, this is my understanding of Demosis. 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:31.160 Priority has been using AI for science. You know, it's 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:35.480 certainly been overshadowed by chat, Gibt and generative AI. And 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:37.920 there's some when we've done some reporting about how some 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:40.679 of this work has been overshadowed inside of Google and 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:43.760 deep Mind right where they have I think for commercial 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:48.120 reasons shifted a lot of their research priorities towards Gemini 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:49.400 and towards generative AI. 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:51.439 But they obviously I still have as a. 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:55.080 Team working on on Alpha Fold. They've commercialized or trying 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:59.000 to commercialize that rather with this new alphabet company Isomorphic 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:02.319 Labs that Demis and his spare time also runs. 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:04.160 And that's when we said. 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:06.880 They did a press conference Demis and John Jumper this 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:09.840 afternoon about this prize, and you know, one of the 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:12.680 things they talked about was just was the continued work 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:13.800 around drug discovery. 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:18.640 Elsewhere in Nobel Prize winners, Jeffrey Hinton won the prize 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:21.880 for physics his work on neural nets, and in a 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:24.600 presser he threw a bit of shade listen to this. 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:31.520 So I was particularly fortunate to have many very clever students, 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:35.760 much cleverer than me, who actually made things work. They've 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:39.520 gone on to do great things. I'm particularly proud of 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:42.080 the fact that one of my students fired Sam Oltman. 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:45.720 Particularly proud that one of his students fired Sam Outman. 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:48.280 You've got a free pass. Just your comment on that, Mark. 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:52.160 I mean, you know, I guess the karma. 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:54.120 It would be a great luxury to be one of 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:57.200 the most senior respected scientists in your field, pretty much 0:14:57.440 --> 0:14:58.440 quite blancheous anything. 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:00.960 But even then, I think, I mean, he was at Google. 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:04.240 He has fascinating history, right he left left Google and 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:07.880 talked about kind of gave a really adamant warning about 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:10.720 some of the dangers and risks of AI. My sense 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:13.000 is that, and I haven't actually spoken the jeff hinted 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:15.240 about this, but like he sees Demis Hasibus as a 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:18.520 scientist and maybe a certainly researcher, some researchers in the 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:22.800 field as being a scientist and some being executives and CEOs, 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:25.200 and maybe putting that to Camp and that's you know, 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:28.360 we are. Google obviously wants to marry those both those worlds, 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:30.520 and we'll see there's always going to be tension between 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:30.800 those two. 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:35.720 Obviously, AI really cleaning up on these Nobel Prizes, and 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:38.920 of course Jeffrey Hinton was mentioning about Elias at Skiver, 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:42.920 of course in his role within the Sam Altman Auster matt. 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:45.120 Berg and we thank you so much. Also in the 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:46.800 AI space, let's talk about it. 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:49.880 Some Alman's Open Ai being accused by even Mask of 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:52.560 harassment in a legal fight that's unfolding as a startup 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:55.400 ways a plan to shift to a for profit business model. 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:58.240 Musk filed a complaint in August claiming that open AI's 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:02.000 co founders manipulated him into investing in the startup, which 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:06.000 at the start was a nonprofit. Numbers Multinag now joins 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:10.160 us to explain that back and forth here because there 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:13.760 have been other legal wranglings between en Or Musk and 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:17.360 open Ai and open AI now saying, look, you're harassing us. 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:21.720 Yes, you know, open AI and Musk are now added again. 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:25.400 This time open AI is lashing back at Musk's lawsuit 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:28.240 which was fired in August, and saying, you know this 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:34.640 is harassment. You know, we've been accused of corruption and 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:38.120 racketeering here. And what they're seeing is that actually Musk 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:41.800 is doing this to gain a competitive advantage with this XAI. 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:43.480 So they're saying we're being. 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:46.800 Harris chair and they've asked a judge actually to throw 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:50.600 out this lawsuit. So yeah, this sort of saga continues, 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:53.320 and we'll have to see what happens in terms of 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:56.320 whether this suit survives in quote or not. 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:03.360 Multi So open AI is accusing Elon Mask of harassment, 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:07.440 and Elon Musk is saying that this is a textbook 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:11.360 tale of altruism versus greed. The bit that I'm struggling 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:15.119 with is what is Elon Musk trying to achieve? What 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:17.879 is his end goal in the suits that he is 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:20.240 filing against open ai. 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:21.680 God. 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:24.880 So what he says is he feels like he's been deceived, 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:27.960 and you know, his lawsuit talked about deceit of Shakespeare 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:31.400 in proportions. So I think he appears to be hurt 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:34.120 here and says I've been deceived. You know, you manipulated 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:37.640 me into investing here. You started off with this founding 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:43.320 mission of being this you know, company that would benefit 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:45.800 human good and here you are now sort of shifting 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:48.600 to this for profit model. So it definitely seems like 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:52.399 he appears hurt in seat of the words that are 0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:56.960 being used in the lawsuit. And what openI says is, Hey, 0:17:57.080 --> 0:18:00.320 you're just using legal warfare here to hurt us in benefit. 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:01.000 Your own company. 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:06.119 Because this new lawsuit which was filing August, Open thee 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:11.080 I says, is adding on some extra more intense claim 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:14.479 such as racketeering and corruption. So yeah, so Open thee 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:16.560 Eye says, you know you're just doing this for your 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:19.119 own benefit and trying to court us and using the 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:21.359 court system to basically get. 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:21.800 Back at us. 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:34.960 Bloomberg's multi Nayek, thank you very much. Time now for 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:35.880 AI and action. 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:39.840 Let's bring in pre Cyprosord, co founder and general partner 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:43.080 of the newly founded venture firm Touring Capital, for a 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:47.400 take on how to identify the best industries for AI 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:49.880 investment and prayer. A lot of my work has been 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:53.800 looking at a wide range of let's say tech sector 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:56.120 subdivisions where AI is having an impact. 0:18:56.200 --> 0:18:57.160 It can be anything from. 0:18:57.119 --> 0:19:02.760 Software to hardware, industrial, ev, robotics, healthcare. And right now 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:06.280 everyone in anyone is slapping a sticker on themselves saying 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:09.760 we are somehow AI adjacent. But that can be an 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:13.400 opportunity for you. You've setting yourselves up to invest where 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:14.200 do you start. 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:16.639 Right? Right? 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:19.720 Definitely, Actually thank you for mentioning that. So you know, 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:22.520 our thesis at touring is to really partner with entrepreneurs 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:26.639 who are building AI enabled aidjacent software that really solves 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:31.000 real world problems and enhancas productivity across different industries. But 0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:33.280 you know the answer is, how do you actually choose 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:36.359 which industries that are so ripe for AI? And we 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:39.880 typically look for industries that are general laggards and sort 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:43.119 of that initial wave of digital transformation and who in 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:46.320 a lot of cases still rely on pen, paper and excel, 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:50.119 and we think those are the opportunities for the most advancement, 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:53.840 at least the low hanging fruit that AI can initially tell. 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:57.960 Looking at some of the startups that you've already invested in, 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:00.520 we've got your put Photio up for us. Now, Pixis 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:06.000 that's marketing, de Looper, that's financial services, car dealership with NUMA. 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:08.439 I can understand why that's perhaps slow to pick up 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:12.120 on AI. But why do you feel that these areas are. 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:14.160 Right for disruption from artificial intelligence? 0:20:15.000 --> 0:20:18.359 Yeah, no, that's a great question. So we typically use 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:20.879 a framework when we think of whether a particular vertical 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:23.960 or an industry is right for AI transformation. The first 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:27.480 thing that we look for is a large total addressable market, 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:30.640 an actual sort of friction or pain point that's really 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:34.440 experienced in that market. And then we again prefer relatively 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:37.960 old school industries who still rely on pen, paper and 0:20:38.080 --> 0:20:40.760 excel for the most part, but are now sort of 0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:43.720 forced to deal head on with the tailwinds from AI 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:47.400 adoption in order to actually remain competitive in that industry. 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:50.960 And lastly, we look for sort of immediate ROI that's 0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:54.560 delivered from the product to the end user in that market, 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:58.320 creating sort of this strong propensity to pay. And I 0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:02.320 always say, the best opportunities an AI often seem niche 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:05.960 to the industry outsider, but are sort of life changing 0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:09.520 to that end user. And you know, as you pointed out, yeah, 0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:12.880