1 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: Case nine forty seven out of Hobbs, New Mexico. It 2 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: was July twenty third, nineteen fifty seven, a Tuesday, at 3 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 1: four am. Dorothy Gibson and Barbara Lemons were traveling together 4 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: from Carlsbad to Hobbs, New Mexico on Highway one point eighty. 5 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:33,319 Speaker 1: They were in a nineteen fifty two Plymouth. They had 6 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 1: a flat tire. They pulled just off the roadway and 7 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: that is when JD. Cantraill, driving his work truck, pulled 8 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 1: his rig off the road, left it running with the 9 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:49,559 Speaker 1: lights on, and it appears that JD was in the 10 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: process of changing the tires when he was shot and killed. 11 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: JD had been shot eight times with a small caliber weapon. 12 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: Two females were not at the scene when a Good 13 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: samaritan rolled up and found JD inside their car. Sheriff's 14 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: deputies found their purses and shoes and an id. The 15 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: scene also showed a powerful struggle. JD had left his 16 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: home about three ten am, and again his body was 17 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: found by four The two women were later found off 18 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 1: Highway two thirty eight. Both had been shot and it 19 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: appeared to be a twenty two weapon. An old field 20 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: worker found them right at the Buckeye cutoff. The two 21 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: female victims had been out the night before with a 22 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: male friend. They drove him home to Carlsbad and were 23 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: headed back to Hobbs when they had the flat tire. 24 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: The area where they were found is flat, hot, full 25 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: of tumbleweeds and cactus. The victims, Dorothy Gibson, was twenty three, divorced, 26 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: lived in a small house at two two five South Coleman. 27 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: Barbara Lemons also twenty three and divorced. We're going to 28 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: get back to Barbara in a second. 29 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:20,679 Speaker 2: J D. 30 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: Cantrell was married, a truck driver and a father. JD 31 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: was shot eight times. The first question that popped into 32 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: my head is what were the women doing during this 33 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: just barrage of gunfire. They had to be petrified. The 34 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: other questions is did JD know them in some way? 35 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: Was there somebody that had injured their tire before and 36 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: forced the flat tire. People are normally killed for three reasons, sex, money, 37 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: and revenge. What doesn't appear anybody was robbed, doesn't appear 38 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: anybody was sexually assaulted, so that leaves us with revenge. 39 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: The best place to start this case is with the victimology. 40 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 1: The more we know about the victims, the clearer a 41 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: motive may come. Once you have a motive, it'll lead 42 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: you quite possibly to who today we are so fortunate 43 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: to have with us, Amber Clemens Bean. She is Barbara 44 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 1: Ann's paternal granddaughter. So let me tell y'all a little 45 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: bit about Amber. She will tell you she's shy. She'll 46 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: tell you she don't want to talk in public, she 47 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: doesn't want to address big crowds. But we have the 48 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: opportunity to present this case at crime con and y'all, 49 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: she put all that fear aside, she put all the 50 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: trepidation away, and for her grandmother, she addressed a packed 51 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:03,119 Speaker 1: room at Crime cons just brilliantly and flawlessly as I've 52 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: ever seen. It was straight from her heart. She didn't 53 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 1: have a note card in her hand, and it was 54 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: so well received because y'all know that audience. We're all 55 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 1: like minded people. We want to help, we want to 56 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: help solve a case. And Amber, I just think you 57 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: did such a remarkable job. I just want to tell 58 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: you again it was amazing to watch you. Now. Amber, 59 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: you know triple homicides are rare. In those cases, you 60 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 1: have to do three separate victimologies, and then you've got 61 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 1: to look at connections between those three people, if any, 62 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: and then you have to go back and look at 63 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: each person and try to determine was there anybody in 64 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:50,600 Speaker 1: their background that would want to kill them? And then 65 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:54,919 Speaker 1: were the other two collateral damage or we're all three 66 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: targets or just two targets. And that's what I see 67 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: here in this case. So case number nine forty seven, 68 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 1: Dorothy Gibson, Barbara Lemons, and JD. Cantrell. What are the 69 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: connections for your grandmother to either one of the other victims? 70 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 2: She was friends with Dorothy. I don't know that she 71 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 2: ever had any connection with JD. Cantrell. We were always 72 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 2: told he was possibly just collateral damage. There's been different 73 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 2: there's different theories. One of them is that he was 74 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 2: already on the scene helping the women with car trouble 75 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 2: when the assailant came upon the scene. He died at 76 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:39,600 Speaker 2: the scene and the women were transported. The other one 77 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 2: is that the assailant was already there and the truck 78 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 2: driver stopped to help the women with and he was 79 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 2: killed and then the women were taken elsewhere. We do 80 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 2: know that the women were taken elsewhere, and it sounds 81 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,919 Speaker 2: like he was possibly going to let them go because 82 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 2: they were out of the car and they were shot 83 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 2: while they were running, or at least one of them 84 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 2: was shot while they were running. 85 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,919 Speaker 1: That's what it looks like to me. The one crime 86 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: scene photo that we're able to see, that's exactly what 87 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 1: it looks like, that they were running. I don't know 88 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: that he was ever going to quote let them go, 89 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 1: but he certainly was not going to shoot them in 90 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 1: his car, right. 91 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 2: He let them out of the car. 92 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: Right. So the original scene, it's a nineteen fifty two 93 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 1: Plymouth and the tire is off the car, so one 94 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:33,119 Speaker 1: would assume, you know, back then in nineteen fifty seven, 95 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,160 Speaker 1: that a man did stop to help them. There was 96 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,840 Speaker 1: nothing on the women's hands like grease or you know, 97 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 1: any type of It didn't look like they had been 98 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: changing a tire. 99 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 2: No, it sounds like he probably was right. 100 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 1: And it was so early in the morning, I mean 101 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,919 Speaker 1: you're talking about four am essentially. So JD. Leaves his 102 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: house about three ten, goes and picks up the rig 103 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 1: at work and then is driving when his rig is 104 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:01,919 Speaker 1: pulled off the side of the road. The engine idle 105 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:06,720 Speaker 1: and the lights are on, so he clearly saw I 106 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: think the two women. And the reason is, I believe 107 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: if he saw a man changing a tire or he'd 108 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: kept driving right. So I think he saw the two women. 109 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: And I think the assailant came up a little after. 110 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: I believe now maybe he would have stopped to help 111 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: another man that time of morning, but I'm just saying 112 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: I think the chances are better than it was two women. 113 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: Your time frame in the very beginning is tight. You're 114 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: not talking about a lot of time. It went by 115 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: right now before that. If you're working backwards at a 116 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: crime scene, which is what we do, so we know 117 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: what happened at four am, and if you're looking backwards, 118 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: the two women were doing what The night. 119 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 2: Before, they had gone to a bar or a club 120 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 2: essentially to hear a singer, Lefty Frizoe perform, and they 121 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 2: had a friend with them that they had dropped off 122 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 2: after prior to this happening, and then they from my 123 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 2: understanding is after they dropped their friend off, they had 124 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 2: gone to a cafe for something to eat. 125 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: They had a male friend that they had dropped off, 126 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: so they drove him all the way home and were 127 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: coming back and stopped to get something to eat. Now, right, 128 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: This is critical to me because a lot of times, 129 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: if you were to ask any waiter or waitress about 130 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: a particular shift, they're probably not going to remember that. 131 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: Many people correct, but this waitress did. She did, and 132 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: what did she remember. 133 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:40,559 Speaker 2: She remembered there was a guy there who was watching 134 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 2: the women. He ordered, I believe, a salad, but he 135 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 2: didn't finish it, and when they left, he followed them out. 136 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: This waitress not only remembered what the man ordered, she 137 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: remembered what he was wearing. He gave her that kind 138 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: of feeling that the way he's watching those women is 139 00:08:59,360 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: just not right. 140 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, she felt that it was off. It kind of 141 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 2: gave her an uneasy feeling. 142 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: So they had been out, they had been having a 143 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 1: great time with a male friend, so they probably felt 144 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: safe there. But once they dropped him off, they went 145 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: to the diner alone and then carried on their trip 146 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 1: headed back to their residence. Something happened between the diner 147 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 1: and when the tire went flat, no doubt about it. 148 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 1: And it looks like JD. Cantrell literally was just a 149 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:33,199 Speaker 1: good Samaritan. 150 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 2: Yes, what. 151 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: Was found at the crime scene of the women. 152 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 2: Everything was in the car. There was extra pairs of shoes, 153 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 2: their purses, everything was intact. They don't believe it was 154 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 2: robbery because nothing was stolen. Everything was in the car. 155 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: Okay, so pursa's shoes, ID wallet's keys, everything's in the 156 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: Plymouth and the original crime scene O. Correct. JD is 157 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: shot eight times. 158 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 2: I believe it was eight. Yes, they said there was 159 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 2: some type of a struggle, but yes, he was shot 160 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 2: about eight times. 161 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: Now, it don't take eight times to kill somebody, and 162 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: it doesn't take eight separate shots to stop a threat. 163 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: So if this person brandished a weapon and a struggle ensued, 164 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: he didn't have to shoot him eight times. So that's 165 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: a large number that we need to file away and 166 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,479 Speaker 1: just say, hey, that's kind of excessive. 167 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 2: We'll just say that. 168 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: Then the women are taken from that scene and driven 169 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:46,439 Speaker 1: out Highway two thirty eight. Now they're about thirty minutes 170 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: from the original crime scene. 171 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 2: Correct. 172 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: Yes, Now, I just want everybody to think, two women 173 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,839 Speaker 1: that have just witnessed a murder are now put into 174 00:10:55,880 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: a vehicle by the assailant for thirty minutes. That had 175 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: to be chaotic at best. They had to be screaming, crying, 176 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: worried about what was happening. So for thirty minutes, that 177 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: to me is an incredible amount of time that one 178 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 1: person is controlling two people and then looking for a 179 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: secondary location to either let them go or to murder them. 180 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 2: And if you could see where they were taking there 181 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 2: was a lot of talk that they thought that it 182 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 2: was somebody that lived in the air or sorry that somebody, 183 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 2: that it was somebody the essay, that was somebody that 184 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 2: was passing through the area. If you could see, I've 185 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 2: been there, if you could see in person where this is. 186 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,679 Speaker 2: It's very far off a road out in the middle 187 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 2: of nowhere, there's and it's not something you would know 188 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 2: was there if you didn't live in the area, right, 189 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 2: So it just makes me think that it was someone 190 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 2: that knew the area well, lived there maybe or had 191 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:58,679 Speaker 2: a family there, or had lived there at one point, 192 00:11:58,760 --> 00:11:59,839 Speaker 2: just because of where it was. 193 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 1: Well, I can tell you this, they absolutely knew that 194 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: area because he managed to do this in the dark. Yes, 195 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:14,319 Speaker 1: so he found this location without visibility. He knew it, 196 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: no doubt in my mind. So when the women are found, 197 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: they are twenty yards apart. I believe one was shot 198 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 1: almost immediately, and I believe the second one was running. 199 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 2: Yes, they think. 200 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: I believe. 201 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 2: I was always told it was Barbara Ann that was running, 202 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 2: but I'm not one hundred percent sure. They were both 203 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 2: found fully clothed. Yes, about twenty yards apart from each other. 204 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,679 Speaker 2: There's no sign. They don't think there was sexual assault 205 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 2: just because they were they were fully clothed and nothing 206 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:46,719 Speaker 2: was missing. I don't really know what they think that 207 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 2: the motive was. I've never really been told that other 208 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 2: than they don't think it was robbery. 209 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I would agree with that because nothing was taken, 210 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 1: not the car, not money, not jewelry, not purses, nothing, 211 00:12:57,920 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: nothing of value was taken off JD. 212 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 2: Right, everything was there. His wallet was left there. We 213 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 2: don't know what the motive was. I've never really been 214 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 2: told like, this is what we think the motive is. 215 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 2: They just that they don't think it was robbery and 216 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:13,839 Speaker 2: they don't think it was like a sexual assault because 217 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 2: there wasn't any. 218 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: And if you'd think about JD being shot eight to 219 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: ten times and there were five shotgun shells found at 220 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:28,839 Speaker 1: the scene, this is somebody that was prepared to murder 221 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: three people, and did. 222 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,599 Speaker 2: I don't know. I guess said if it was premeditated 223 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 2: or how he picked his victims, if it was random. 224 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 2: I don't know that they ever determined if it was 225 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 2: someone that knew them or if it was random. 226 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 1: Now the women, they both had separate homes, but they 227 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: did try to rent an apartment together in another town. Yes, 228 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: and they wanted to get jobs at JC Penny. 229 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 2: Correct, they had applied there. 230 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: Does anything there stand out for you, like why did 231 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 1: they go to another town and why JC Penny? Like 232 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 1: were they trying to literally start new lives? 233 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 2: I think maybe after the divorce, they were just trying 234 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 2: to start fresh somewhere. You know, Hobbs is a small area, 235 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 2: it's not real big, but that's kind of my theory 236 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 2: is maybe they were just trying to get a fresh 237 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 2: start and raise their kids. And well I don't think 238 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 2: Dorothy didn't have children, but my grandma did. Barbaran did. 239 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 2: So I think she was just trying to raise her 240 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 2: children and start fresh in a new area. 241 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: I mean they were both young, they were only twenty 242 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: three correct, Yes, And maybe if they thought, you know, 243 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: if we get an apartment together, you know, Dorothy could 244 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: have helped Barbara Ann with the children. Maybe they could 245 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: have gotten separate shifts so somebody was always home. I mean, 246 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: it might have been a great setup where they could 247 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: have helped each other. You know, Barbara would be paying 248 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: half the bills, so Dorothy would be in better shape financially. Right, 249 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: you know, there's there's worse ideas, you know, but then 250 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: you have to look at these two women are friends. 251 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: But could one of the women have been a target? 252 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, we always told that one of the women was, 253 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 2: that one of them was a target. We just didn't 254 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 2: know why or which one was the target, and that 255 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 2: the other the truck driver and the other women were 256 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 2: just collateral damage. They happened to be there, wrong place, 257 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 2: wrong time, and. 258 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 1: Both ex husbands were looked at. 259 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 2: Yes, everybody was looked at at the time. 260 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: Because Dorothy was shot in the ear, well that seems 261 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: like a kill shot, whereas Barbara ann was hit in 262 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: the arm and some other places. So you might on 263 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: paper think Dorothy might be a target. And law enforcement 264 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: has told you what about this case and looking into 265 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:55,359 Speaker 1: this case. 266 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 2: Many years back, they did tell me they had the 267 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 2: name of a suspect, but they couldn't tell me who 268 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 2: the suspect was. The person is deceased, and I said, well, 269 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 2: why can't you tell me? And they said, because the 270 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 2: person is protected. And I said, okay, but what about her? 271 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 2: What about the three victims and their protection? When do 272 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 2: they get that because they were killed and we've been 273 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 2: fighting all this time for answers, and I had people 274 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 2: write letters and telling him that, you know, once the 275 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 2: person is deceased, it's okay to tell her the name, 276 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 2: and they still wouldn't do it. They I found out 277 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 2: that the police were the sheriff and the captain were 278 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 2: running against each other for the office. So I thought, oh, 279 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 2: maybe that's why I'm not getting answers, because the captain 280 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 2: wanted to thought about telling me, but then the sheriff said, no, 281 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 2: I do know that. At the time, the captain told somebody, well, 282 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 2: it doesn't matter because everybody's dead, and I thought, well, no, 283 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 2: not everybody's dead. We're all still here fighting. We're still 284 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 2: here fighting for answers, you know, sixty eight years later. 285 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:04,880 Speaker 1: Not everybody's dead, that's right. 286 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 2: And now there. 287 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: I know. 288 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 2: At the time when the murder happened, they were bringing 289 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 2: back a suspect from Texas to question him, and a 290 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 2: new sheriff was elected, and that sheriff fired all the deputies, 291 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:21,920 Speaker 2: so that deputy that was bringing that suspect back from 292 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,120 Speaker 2: Texas how to let him go. So he was never 293 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 2: questioned when. 294 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: Some people say, well, it's been so long and you know, 295 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: nobody's living anymore that went through it, But that's not 296 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: true because you went through it generationally, because you lived 297 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 1: with your dad having nightmares and not being able to function, 298 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,199 Speaker 1: and not trust in people and not wanting to go 299 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: off by self somewhere. I mean, this wasn't something that 300 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 1: happened when he was three and he wasn't aware of 301 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: it by the age of seven. He knew it his 302 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 1: whole life. He lived it his whole life, and therefore 303 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 1: so do you you in a very real way. 304 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 2: He lived his whole life. And I think essentially that's 305 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 2: maybe why part of the reason they separated him and 306 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:15,120 Speaker 2: his sister is the thought process was if they're separate, 307 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 2: nobody can find them. But he lived his life afraid 308 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 2: that they were going to find out he was her 309 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 2: child and he was going to become after they were 310 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 2: going to come for him next. And I've talked to 311 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 2: the daughters of the man that was married to Dorothy 312 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:37,680 Speaker 2: they're not her daughters, but he had children later and 313 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 2: he was very much that way too, like very protective, 314 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 2: very had to know where they were all the time. 315 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 2: You need to be home, I need to know where 316 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 2: you are. And I'm sure that's an after effect of 317 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 2: his wife being murdered. 318 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 1: Of course, and especially in a small town, because everybody's 319 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 1: got to be looking at everybody, anybody that had an 320 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 1: affair with one of the women, anybody that dated the 321 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: women before or after their divorces. You know, everybody is suspect, right. 322 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 1: You know, did somebody that she didn't marry become a stalker? 323 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,639 Speaker 1: You know, did the ex husband have somebody that you know, 324 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 1: thought they were going to get back at her? Like 325 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: there's you never know, Like there's all kinds of stories 326 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: that are going to circulate, There's all kinds of rumors 327 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:29,879 Speaker 1: that are going to happen, but the bottom line is 328 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 1: you don't know. Because the other twist is the way JD. 329 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:41,400 Speaker 1: Cantrell was treated. Was he a target? He was certainly 330 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 1: shot more times than the women combined. 331 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:47,400 Speaker 2: Right, And there was a struggle with him, and. 332 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 1: There was a struggle, So it wasn't like somebody just 333 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:51,640 Speaker 1: came up and shot him from a distance. 334 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, they were. It was up close close range. 335 00:19:55,280 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 1: So again with triple homicides, and you're looking at victimology, 336 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: you're going to look at the age of all the folks. 337 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: You're going to look at their marital status, You're going 338 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 1: to look at where they worked, what they had been 339 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:12,640 Speaker 1: doing the months leading up to the murder, you know, 340 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 1: And this is where the people in the community and 341 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: family and co workers can be so helpful. What do 342 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:23,119 Speaker 1: we know? And that's how we found out about J. C. Penny. 343 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,120 Speaker 1: And then they were able to track down the actual 344 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: applications that they filled out that Dorothy and Barbara, you know, 345 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 1: they put addresses down, they put why they were looking 346 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: for this employment, their past employment, and I think that 347 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: is great information for law enforcement. 348 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 2: Definitely. 349 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, you have not stopped in your investigation. 350 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: You have not been satisfied with the information that you've 351 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 1: ascertained so far, and you recently were able to see 352 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 1: some things in the case file that you had never 353 00:20:59,040 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: been shown. 354 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 2: Before right when I went to New Mexico. 355 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 1: Yes, I mean, I think that's one of those things 356 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: that here's the bottom line for any young detective listening 357 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:14,919 Speaker 1: to this show. You can take a complete murder box 358 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: that you have in your office and you can look 359 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: at every single piece of evidence in it. That does 360 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: not mean you understand it. So if there is a 361 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 1: birthday card, if there is a receipt, if there is 362 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: a photograph, ask the family, ask friends. They may can 363 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: add to what that means or signifies that you will 364 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: never know. So when Amber is able to look through 365 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,160 Speaker 1: that box and she has all the stories that she's 366 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: been told for sixty years, some of those things may 367 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 1: leap out at her. Whereas law enforcement might say, oh, 368 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: that's just a Valentine's Day card, it's meaningless. It's not meaningless. 369 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: A telegram is not meaningless. A receipt for a pair 370 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 1: of shoes is not meaningless. So again I think what 371 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:13,879 Speaker 1: you're doing and going back and sitting with the detective 372 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: and looking through the murder box, your cell is so 373 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: important in everybody understanding who Barbara Lemons was. 374 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 2: It was just within the last two years that I 375 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 2: was able to go there and see the items they 376 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 2: invited me there. I had actually written a letter to 377 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 2: the newspaper and the police department requesting that they reopened 378 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 2: the case because they wouldn't tell me names, They wouldn't 379 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,959 Speaker 2: tell me suspects, They wouldn't tell me anything. So I said, well, 380 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 2: then I can only assume that it's not solved and 381 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 2: I want it reopened. So they reopened it and they 382 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 2: said I could come there. I went on a road 383 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,199 Speaker 2: trip to New Mexico and was able to meet with 384 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 2: them and view everything they had, which was a lot 385 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 2: go through. There is, I think, stuff that's missing that 386 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 2: they can't find, like evidence, but I don't know that 387 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 2: she'll trying to find it. They had a lot of 388 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,239 Speaker 2: stuff that they said probably could have given back to 389 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 2: been given back a long time, like they still had 390 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,680 Speaker 2: the truck driver's wallet. Just a lot of things that 391 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 2: probably could have been given back to the families a 392 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 2: long time ago. Mostly that, But there's just a lot 393 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:32,640 Speaker 2: of back and forth and not giving us answers, and 394 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:39,360 Speaker 2: just sixty eight years of continuing to fight. Now it's 395 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 2: my turn. I've fought for a long time. I actually 396 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 2: found out when I was in elementary school that she 397 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,919 Speaker 2: had been murdered. I didn't know until I was in 398 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 2: elementary school. We were watching, oddly enough, we were watching 399 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 2: unsolved mysteries, and my mom said that we should call 400 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,439 Speaker 2: and see if they would feature the show. But you know, 401 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 2: we were in elementary school that my mom says we 402 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 2: didn't show much interest back then, and I don't think it. 403 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 2: We just we were kids. But that's yeah, it was 404 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 2: probably like I mean, maybe elementary school, so maybe fifth grade, 405 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 2: fourth grade when they found out. 406 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: Well, well, that's why I said sixty years for you, 407 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 1: because I figured you were about eight or so, even 408 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,199 Speaker 1: though I knew it had been sixty eight years, but 409 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: still for sixty years. This is something that you have 410 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 1: carried with you in some form or fashion. I had 411 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: a chance to speak with the lead detective now on 412 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: the case, and you know, he was great to talk 413 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: to me and was very open about things. You know, 414 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: but like I told you, after I spoke to him, 415 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: you know, he's not going to share everything, and he's 416 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,880 Speaker 1: not going to name a name. Even if I gave 417 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,640 Speaker 1: him a suspect name, he wasn't going to say yes 418 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,879 Speaker 1: or no to it. If you're going to keep information 419 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: close to the vest, then there needs to be action 420 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,920 Speaker 1: taken by you that it is clear to the family 421 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 1: that this is still trying to be solved. If you're 422 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: just keeping it close to the vest, then you don't 423 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,959 Speaker 1: want to talk about it because you're afraid a family 424 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 1: of a suspect is going to get upset. That's not 425 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: the right call. 426 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,400 Speaker 2: And I think that was always their thought process, even 427 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 2: back when I was dealing with the previous captain, was well, 428 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,399 Speaker 2: we don't want someone to come after us. We're going 429 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 2: to name this person, and then if it gets out 430 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 2: there and they find out, we don't want to be 431 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 2: pursuant to a lawsuit. And that's how they feel now. 432 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,199 Speaker 2: As they were like, well, we have to try to 433 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 2: they don't because they told me they had the name 434 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 2: of somebody, and they told me that there would be 435 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 2: a press conference that I would be invited to when 436 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:02,400 Speaker 2: they named the person, but they didn't want the name 437 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 2: released because they were trying to pin down family and 438 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:13,200 Speaker 2: notify them first. But I just I left there thinking 439 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 2: that I wasn't getting the complete truth from them. 440 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: You know, when I spoke with the lead detective, we 441 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 1: offered help with experts or private labs, anything he might need. 442 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: I am completely convinced that the assailant to get those 443 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,640 Speaker 1: two women in the car had to grab at least 444 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:36,919 Speaker 1: one or both of them and shove them. So you know, 445 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 1: you never know. I mean, stranger things have happened, and 446 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: they've been able to get DNA off more unusual items 447 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: than that from a cold case. It'd be worth a 448 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 1: shot to me. But you know, I think back about 449 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:54,920 Speaker 1: our time at crime Con this past year, and remember, 450 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,159 Speaker 1: I gotta tell you. Leading up to crime Con, you 451 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 1: were like, I don't know, I'm not a public speaker. 452 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: I'm not sure I'm going to talk. I mean, I'm 453 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: gonna be there and I want to support, you know, 454 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: my grandmother, but I just don't count on me for 455 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,680 Speaker 1: getting on stage. No problem, it's all gonna be good. 456 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: It's gonna be great, honey. When you got there, you 457 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: were so fantastic. And here's what I think resonated for 458 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: me more than anything. You went out there and there 459 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: was a sea of people. That room was packed amber 460 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 1: wall to wall, people that you don't know, spotlight on you, 461 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 1: and you took that microphone and spoke so sweetly about 462 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 1: your daddy, about your grandmama, who you never even got 463 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 1: a chance to meet. How it changed your life, the 464 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: things your daddy suffered through, and that audience connected with 465 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: you so profoundly that you received I don't know six 466 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 1: or seven minutes standing ovation. I mean it, and I 467 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,400 Speaker 1: was like, not bad with somebody that wasn't gonna talk. 468 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 1: But you know, I also think as a parent, you know, 469 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: your daddy's got to be so proud of you for 470 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: what you've done. I mean, you overcame some fear, you 471 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 1: traveled a long distance, you're still traveling, You're still trying 472 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: to get the word out, you're building a website, and 473 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: I just admire what you're doing again for a grandmother 474 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: you never had a chance to meet. 475 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 2: Thank you. It's definitely been along road and it's definitely 476 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 2: not over. We will keep the word out there. It's 477 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 2: come down to now me and my cousins just trying 478 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 2: to fight. My mom's a good supporter. 479 00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, she was right with you, honey. 480 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 2: She keeps me on it. The days of the times 481 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 2: I get frustrated and I think, gosh, I'm never going 482 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 2: to get answers, and why am I doing this? She says, Nope, 483 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 2: We're going to continue to fight and we're going to 484 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 2: keep going. I want people to know that these lives mattered. 485 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 2: My grandmother was a mom, and a sister and a 486 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 2: daughter and a grandmother that never got to know her grandchildren. 487 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:26,719 Speaker 2: There's seven of us that she never got to know. 488 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 2: She has great grandchildren. The truck driver he never got 489 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 2: to see his kids grow up. He has grandchildren he 490 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 2: never got to know. And they're more than just faces. 491 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 2: They're more than just victims. They were people that meant 492 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 2: a lot to a lot of people, and past generation 493 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 2: to pass on not knowing what happened. But we will 494 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 2: continue to fight, and we will continue to try to 495 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 2: get answers, enclosures for our families, and if it takes 496 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 2: every last breath I got, I'm going to continue to 497 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 2: fight for her and continue to try to get answers 498 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 2: from somebody, because somebody knows something. You don't just kill 499 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 2: three people in cold blood and disappear and not say something, 500 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 2: not talk to somebody. So there's answers somewhere, we just 501 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 2: have to look under the right rocks to find them. 502 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 1: That was perfectly stated. And I'll tell you you know, 503 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 1: I don't believe in coincidences in my job. I just don't. 504 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 1: And there are so many things here that it just 505 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,719 Speaker 1: looks like, oh, that's just a coincidence that JD showed up. 506 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: It's a coincidence they dropped a friend off it's a coincidence. 507 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: The waitress noticed somebody. I just don't I don't buy it. 508 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 1: And you and I are very fortunate on this case. 509 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 1: Because y'all there's another episode coming and that's going to 510 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: be with Paul Holes, the investigator that y'all all know 511 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 1: and love. Amber's met him. Now, Amber's a fan. He 512 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 1: is awesome, and he's agreed to help out. And he's 513 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: one of those folks too that can help me reach 514 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: out to law enforcement and have a conversation to say, look, 515 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: we're just here to help. And Paul has had some 516 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: tremendous luck, as you all know, with the Golden State Killer, 517 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: but that ain't the only case he's cracked. So he 518 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 1: has joined us in this investigation and so we will 519 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 1: see what we are able to do. I'm going to 520 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 1: end Zone seven the way that I always do with 521 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: a quote. Justice is what love sounds like when it 522 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 1: speaks in public. Michael Eric Dyson. I'm a Cheryl McCollum, 523 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: and this is Zone seven.