WEBVTT - Bye Mitch. 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:14.560 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:19.320 me your girl Daniel Moody recording from the home Bunker. Folks, 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:25.439 look out your window, because apparently hell has in fact 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:32.760 frozen over. Mitch McConnell has said that he will step 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:38.360 down as the Republican leader in the Senate. While his 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:42.879 term does not finish until January twenty twenty seven, he 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:46.360 will not be seeking reelection, and he will be stepping 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:52.839 down in November as leader in the Senate. Let me 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:56.760 tell you something, as soon as I read that fucking headline, 0:00:56.800 --> 0:01:00.440 I was like, bye, bitch, bye. As you you know, 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:03.080 because you've been listening to OKF for quite some time. 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:06.920 I cannot fucking stand Mitch McConnell. I think that Mitch 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:16.880 McConnell is indicative of everything that is wrong with America, 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:23.200 with white supremacy, with patriarchy, and with white men having power. 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:26.839 Mitch McConnell is the reason why we have a six 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:31.080 to three Trump Supreme Court. You know, when I think 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:34.880 about it now, and I posted a video yesterday talking 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:41.360 about his decision to step down, I get so fucking 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:45.319 angry sometimes when I think back to the Obama administration, 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:50.160 particularly the last term, where Barack Obama said that he 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:55.760 was choosing Merritgarland to be his Supreme Court nominee. Mitch 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:58.520 McConnell then decides, well, I'm not even going to give 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:04.280 you a hearing, and Barack Obama just says, okay, doesn't 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:08.240 decide to take Mitch McConnell to court, doesn't decide to 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:12.520 fight for his right as President of the United States 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:17.240 to seat a Supreme Court justice, and just fucking acquiesced 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:21.440 to that son of a bitch who would then not 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:27.320 only jam Brett Kavanaugh a fucking rapist down our throats, 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:35.800 but then also Cony Barrett. So when I think about 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:41.320 Barack Obama and that moment, that is just indicative of 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:46.840 how the Democratic Party has been. Republicans will pull every 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:51.359 single fucking punch that they can, just egging, just waiting. 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:55.399 You won't call my bluff, You gon'a try and take 0:02:55.400 --> 0:03:00.160 me to the mats, and Democrats say no, no, no, no, oh, 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:06.840 it's okay, boss. Imagine where we would be right now. 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:09.680 It would still be, in all honesty, a five to 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:15.520 four court. Again, if Barack Obama had actually tried to 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:19.520 fight in court for his right to seat a Supreme 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:24.400 Court justice. And then when Joe Biden won the election 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:29.720 and Mitch McConnell decided to ram again Amy Cony Barrett 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:32.600 down our throats. If I'm Joe Biden and I'm coming 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:36.160 in and I'm saying, no, I won the election, you 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:40.000 do not have the right to seat this Supreme Court justice. 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:42.680 And I would have fucking fought it, because what do 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:46.920 you lose at the end of the day when you 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:51.800 fight for the country, our democracy, and the base, what 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:55.600 do you lose? You lose a whole lot when you 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:59.120 decide to try and compromise with the fucking devil that 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:04.960 laughs in your face. Republicans been playing in our faces 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:10.560 for the last fucking eight and nine years under trump Ism. 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:14.360 They were playing in our faces with the Tea Party 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:21.599 and the fucking Birther movement, and we don't take them 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:25.320 to the mats on these issues, and then look and 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:29.040 are surprised when our rights are taken away and rolled 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:32.440 back one fucking Supreme Court decision in one state at 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:39.200 a time. It is just as much Mitch McConnell's fucking fault. 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:42.320 But you know what he was going to do. He 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:47.280 was showing you. The Democrats decided to lay the fuck 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:50.159 down and thought that that made them look like, what 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:55.359 the bigger person, Fuck your bigger person. The country is 0:04:55.400 --> 0:05:00.880 fucked because of it. So let me tell you something. 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:05.960 Mitch McConnell couldn't have announced his retirement soon enough. He 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:11.080 should have retired back in twenty twenty or twenty eighteen, 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:16.160 or I don't know, fucking six decades ago. Also, if 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:18.520 I'm the state of Kentucky and I'm looking around and 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:21.359 I'm looking at your education numbers and your healthcare numbers 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:26.039 and your obesity numbers, exactly what is it that Mitch 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:29.479 McConnell did for the state of Kentucky. Not a fucking thing. 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:35.240 You know. I saw a mean the other day that 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:39.800 was so accurate. It was so accurate when it said 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:44.440 the biggest trick that the Republican Party pulled off was 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:48.039 convincing the American electorate that the party that was trying 0:05:48.040 --> 0:05:53.039 to give you healthcare, bodily autonomy, right, and access to 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:59.400 the vote were the bad guys. So, you know, good 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:04.599 riddance fucking Mitch McConnell. It clearly means if that motherfucker 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:06.680 is letting go of power, then he must be on 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:13.559 death's door and he couldn't get there soon enough. Coming 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:18.520 up next, dear friends, my conversation with our in house doctor, 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:22.200 our friend, doctor Jonathan Metzel. We are checking in with 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:26.240 him to see how his book tour is going. If 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:29.920 you have not gotten a copy of Jonathan's new book 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:32.599 that is a New York Times bestseller, that is in 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:36.159 the New York Times editors lists and editors picks What 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:40.400 We've Become, go out and get yourself a copy. That 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:47.360 conversation is coming up next, folks. I am so excited 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:50.000 to be back with our friend, our in house doctor, 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:55.640 doctor Jonathan Metzel, who's been doing the tour devorce around 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:59.839 the country with his new book, What We've Become. Jonathan, 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:04.200 So tell us you have been in all the places. 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:07.680 Tell us about some of the experiences, the conversations that 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:10.560 you have had, and what's coming up for people as 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:11.960 they as they read your book. 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:15.000 Well, thank you so much. I'm so glad to be 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:18.600 back talking to you. I've missed you so much. It's 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:21.440 been it's been a whirlwind. The book was on the 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:25.440 cover of the New York Times Book Review and was 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:27.720 an editor's pick from the New York Times, and then 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:30.320 it just kind of took off from there, and so 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:34.000 it's been it's been fantastic. I've been just came back 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:38.120 from New Orleans last night. I'm actually doing my day 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:41.080 job here for a couple of days, which they want 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:42.680 me to show up and do every every once in 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:45.760 a while. And then I'm heading to Kansas City to 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:49.360 be a speaker at my old medical school, actually my 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:51.680 my my alma mater. And then I'm going to be 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:54.360 in North Carolina, and then I'm going to be back 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:56.800 here in Nashville doing a book club. And so it's 0:07:56.840 --> 0:07:59.680 been a it's been a whirlwind, lots of different audiences. 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:02.760 It's interesting time to be out there talking about politics, 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:07.920 as you know, obviously as a non politician. But I'm finding, 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:10.840 you know, obviously that there's a lot of hunger out 0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:13.480 there to talk about guns. And my book is about 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:17.040 guns and mass shootings and race, but it's obviously a 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:20.680 metaphor for a bunch of bigger issues also, and so 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:24.320 it's been great to have those conversations. The best one 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:27.960 by far was at green Light Bookstore in Brooklyn, New York, 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:32.079 where you and I had a lovely, amazing conversation. But 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:34.680 I'll post after this, I'll post to the show. Some 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:37.520 of the images I sent you yesterday because it's been great. 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:40.680 I was in d C talking to Neam Malika Henderson. 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:44.280 I was in Boston talking to Beth Novak. I did 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:48.920 a reading with my softball team in Brooklyn because we 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:53.320 lost a teammate two years ago now to gun violence. 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:57.120 And so it's just there's, you know, going out and 0:08:57.160 --> 0:09:01.360 talking about this issue people relate to in very personal ways. 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:06.920 So parents of victims have come, conservatives have come, liberals 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:10.600 have come, tons of crazy people have come and so 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:15.199 and so it's been it's been I think it's been 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:17.400 good to have these kind of conversations. It's for me 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:22.000 reinforced my not what I know, which is that when 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:26.440 you get off of social media and off of cable news, 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:29.880 that you actually can have real conversations with people. So 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:32.640 that part's been really nice. And again the book is 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:38.200 quite provocative to conservatives but also to liberals, and so 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:40.240 the other I think interesting part of it is that 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:42.480 I was a bit nervous about what it would mean 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:44.959 to challenge liberal dogma out there, but that part has 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:46.160 been going really well. 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:54.760 Also, I think too, whenever I have the opportunity, which 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:58.679 is not often frankly, to get out and actually speak 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:01.280 to real life people and get a sense of what 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:04.600 the sentiments and feelings are on the ground. Like you said, 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:08.000 we're in really precarious times as it pertains to our politics. 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:09.960 You're not running for office, so you're not trying to 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:13.560 convince people you know, of something, But I mean you 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:16.959 are trying to shift their ideology around guns and how 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:21.120 we approach them. So what have been some of the 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:23.960 thoughts that people have offered that have, you know, maybe 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:26.680 kind of give you pause, or thoughts that they have 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:29.840 offered where you're just like, Okay, maybe we are making 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:30.880 some headway here. 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:34.360 I'll give you the opposite and then I'll answer that question. 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:36.800 But the opposite for me, as people who've read the 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:40.559 book now, I challenge the idea that's kind of core 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:43.440 knowledge in the Democratic Party that guns are a public 0:10:43.440 --> 0:10:46.040 health emergency. I mean, they are a public health emergency. 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:51.120 But I argue that what we're doing is not going 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:54.439 to get us anywhere because things like background checks and 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:58.560 red flag laws, if they're the core of our entire agenda, 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:00.680 we're not going to shift some of the bigger things 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:04.080 that are happening to us about the other side using 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:07.040 the gun issue to put judges in place, and to 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:10.080 for me, a huge issue is we have no real 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:13.480 answer to permitless carry, which is the story of the 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:18.840 story of the book. And so as much as I 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:20.960 think background checks and read flag laws and all those 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:23.319 things are important, I feel like they're always going to 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:27.120 be protest issues against authority if we don't have a 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:31.120 theory of power. And conversely, the Republicans or the NRA 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:35.200 or whoever for them, guns is a conduit to power. 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:39.920 And so I really am trying to say that, Now 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:43.439 that's a hard thing for people to hear, sometimes, certainly 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:48.200 people who have been involved in gun violence themselves. You know, 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:49.840 I try to be very clear. I'm not saying guns 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:52.559 are not a public health issue. It's just that framing 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:56.120 them as a public health issue is not going to 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:58.800 give us the kind of power to counter the power 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:02.640 of the controlling the Supreme Court and things like that 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:06.240 that we need actually a different strategy. But that's very 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:08.240 personal for a lot of people. So that part has 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:12.280 been I think hard and productive. You know, I always 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:14.360 urge people to please read the book, because it's not 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:16.800 like I'm saying I don't believe in gun laws. I 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:21.040 just think that they're always going to be for structural reasons, 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:24.520 a protest against power if we don't have a model 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:27.360 of power. Also, so that part has been hard. But 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:29.600 I would also say that there are just a lot 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:33.560 of people who have a lot of and maybe this 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:37.280 is how politics works, but a lot of alliance, a 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:41.320 lot of alliance to the kind of every town line, 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:44.920 which is background checks or a flag laws, all these 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:46.640 kind of things. And so for that there's been a 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:49.720 lot of pushback from the left in a way that 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:51.760 is like, you can't say that because that's not what 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:54.600 you know, that's not our position. So that part has 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:56.280 been hard. But I would like to think that the 0:12:56.360 --> 0:13:01.240 hard times are the I would like to think that 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:05.640 the hard times are the ones that are the most 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:08.080 you know, when you challenge people, that's when the real 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:11.360 conversation happens. So I would say that that would probably 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:12.000 be my answer. 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:16.280 And I wonder too, like, as you are going around 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:22.160 the country now talking about your book, where you think 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:30.240 that gun violence gun reform ranks in Biden's reelection campaign, 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:34.200 like where you know, where do you think that those 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:38.079 conversations are they being had? Are they being had enough? 0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:41.480 And frankly, are they being discussed in the right way. 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:46.439 Well, they matter a lot to Biden's reelection campaign for 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:48.960 the reason I talk about in the book, which is 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:52.760 that Trump went to the NRA and he said, nobody's 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:55.679 going to touch your guns, I'm and so he told 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:58.000 people they could keep their guns and keep their power. 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:00.880 And that's what NRA people like to hear, and they 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:03.280 vote on this one hundred percent of the time. Like 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:08.040 I show that Republicans vote because of Trump's line on guns, 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:13.000 but Democrats don't vote based on gun related issues. And 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:18.920 so our line is based in regulation and common sense 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:22.880 laws and trust in public health and mandates. But that 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:25.320 doesn't drive Democrats to the polls. And so even if 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:28.240 people don't vote on guns as a wedge issue, which 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:31.000 it shows is not the case with Democrats, they vote 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:34.480 on other things. But you can be sure that Trump 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:36.280 voters are going to be voting on guns as a 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:38.520 wedge issue. And so that's part of the issue. Is 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:40.720 I'm not saying everybody needs to vote on guns. People 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:44.920 vote on a bunch of different issues. But I would 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:47.000 just say that whether or not it's an issue for Biden, 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:49.080 it certainly is going to be a driver for Trump voters, 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:51.160 and so we need to at least recognize. 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:56.880 That, you know, I'm wondering, Jonathan, Like you know that 0:14:56.960 --> 0:14:59.960 we have several months right now between now and November, 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:02.920 and sadly, in the way that things work in America, 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:06.960 I'm certain that there'll be multiple mass shootings that will happen. 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:12.000 I'm not quite sure. And you tell me, because I 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:16.720 know that there are conversations around how we measure mass 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:20.000 shootings now because there are so many that how we 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:23.800 measure them needs to change. But I'm wondering. You know, 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:28.080 we also know that the former head of the NRA 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:31.920 was just charged, you know, with massive amounts of fraud 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:38.360 here in New York. How does any of these things like, 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:42.320 I don't know, Like, like I believe Democrats are not 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:46.040 single issue voters, and we have so many things that 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:48.560 are coming at us right now, and I think that 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:52.600 there is a sense of being worn out. But like 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:57.800 in your mind obviously, you know, you just laid out 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:00.560 the difference between Biden and Trump. But I'm just like wondering, 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:04.840 outside of the headlines, do you think that guns are 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:06.320 front of mind for people? 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:12.840 As you know from my time piece, I think the 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:15.600 bigger issue with guns isn't just about guns. It's about 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:19.040 the threat they present to democracy and democratic governance that 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:22.480 gun politics do. And so I would say that whether 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:25.520 or not Democrats feel like, oh guns is my issue, 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:27.040 and I'm going to go to the poll based on guns, 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:29.000 which is true for some people and not for other people. 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:33.720 Your future freedom depends on what's going to happen in 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:37.240 that election. And there are ways in which the Republicans 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:40.080 mobilize around the gun issue. And I'll give you an example. 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:45.520 We get are furious after mass shootings. We protest after 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:49.560 mass shootings, we demand change after mass shootings. The Republicans 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:54.160 don't do that. But South Carolina and Louisiana now are 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:59.760 passing what's called constitutional carry, permitless carry. We now have 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:03.000 the states in the country. Pretty soon here they're going 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:09.440 to allow people to carry guns without any training, any permit. Now, 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:12.399 the story I tell in the book is how permitless 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:15.600 carry makes it impossible to stop mass shootings, but it 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:19.120 also creates a kind of sense of lawlessness. I mean, 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:22.199 these guys know that flooding guns into cities leads to 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:25.440 more crime, and then they point to crime as an issue. 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:28.360 And so in a way, while we're out there protesting, 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:32.880 the Republicans have been the cops with n RA is 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:36.040 probably important. But the fact that we're not focusing enough 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:40.640 on the rise of just armed people in society right now. 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:43.359 That's what happened to the Kansas City Super Bowl parade. 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:46.800 I was going to say, yep, you know, two guys 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:48.840 got in a shooting and then nine hundred other people 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:52.920 whipped out their guns. And so in a way, the 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:56.320 Republicans are using the gun issue to change society, to 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:59.160 change how people feel about the public square, to change 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:01.920 how people trust each other. And so I just think 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:04.119 I agree. I mean, people are going to vote for 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:08.920 Gaza or for climate, or for age, or for they 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:14.520 love Robert F. Kennedy Junior or whatever, you know, like 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:17.320 they're going to vote for a bunch of crazy, weird 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:22.440 reasons or real reasons or urgent reasons. But but the 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:27.480 issue is we're up against an opponent that is not 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:29.679 not broad like that, Like the opponent is going to 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:32.119 base vote. Guns is one of the court issues that 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:35.119 people are going to vote on, and so it's not 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:36.960 you know, I just think we need to be a 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:40.720 lot more disciplined in the face of what it suggests 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:43.440 about what we're up against. Does that make sense? 0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:45.560 Yeah? And I you know, I just want to go 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:49.640 back to something that you said, which was, you know 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:53.639 that the Republicans they're using the gun issue as a 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:56.840 way to change our relationship with guns. And I would 0:18:56.920 --> 0:18:59.720 argue there was something that I saw earlier this week 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:05.320 in Texas, for instance, where Greg Gabbott is, you know, 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:11.320 creating a policy that essentially has people turn in their neighbors, 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:14.879 right like, has people turn on their neighbors as it 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:20.520 pertains to their like potential immigration status or what have you. 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:23.960 And it's really what I realize from that is that 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:27.800 like the whole love thy neighbor part of you know, 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:32.280 Christianity and the Bible is lost on these people. There 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:35.280 is no love thy neighbor. It's fear thy neighbor. It's 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:39.080 you know, turn on thy neighbor. And I'm wondering for you, like, 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:47.639 how does the proliferation of guns really go hand in 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:51.040 hand with our lack of ability to build community with 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:55.280 other with people outside of that look like us, you 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:57.760 know that are considered quote unquote other. 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:01.760 But also it's got you know, you go into the 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:06.240 public square mistrusting people fearing the worst, pulling out your 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:11.040 gun just in case. And so it certainly has tribalizing 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:14.840 functions that are very self perpetuating. But the other thing 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:17.879 is I write about in that time piece is like, 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:22.840 because of the Bruined decision, it's also incredibly anti democratic 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:27.280 And by that I mean that By that, I mean 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:32.720 that people have voted for gun policies in places like Oregon, 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:38.600 for example, or Virginia, but the judges now can overturn 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:41.440 the will of the voters because of the Bruined decision, 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:45.399 And so it's also a model for anti democracy because 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:48.280 people vote for safety laws that can then be overturned. 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:53.040 So Republicans are also using the gun issue to put 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:56.159 power in their lifetime appointed judges in a way that 0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:59.080 overturns the will of the voters in ways that I 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:01.600 think is another big issue obviously this if this whole 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:05.639 election is about democracy, guns are a really core component 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:08.800 to that and people. So hopefully for people who read 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:10.119 the book, they'll see what I mean. But I have 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:11.920 a lot of very concrete examples of that. 0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:22.480 What are your hopes for this book and how it 0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:26.520 shapes our conversations moving forward, Like there is a sense 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:28.560 and I you know, we talk about this all the 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:32.840 time here of just hopelessness around this issue that just 0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:36.160 continues to get worse. Republicans get more savvy. You're laying 0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:38.639 out all the ways in which you know, they have 0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:41.920 increased gun proliferation and changed the laws and bought the 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:44.320 judges and done all the things. And so for a 0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:46.879 lot of people, as they're listening to this, they're just like, 0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:50.040 fuck it, it's a lost cause, you know, And so 0:21:50.080 --> 0:21:52.359 I want like, so yeah, so please. 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:56.119 The rebindless is true for every issue, but the twenty 0:21:56.160 --> 0:22:00.000 four election honestly is make or break for this issue. 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:02.879 You I think that if we win the twenty four election, 0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:08.960 we have the ability to totally upend the American gun debate. 0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:11.679 It's not you know, my students think it's about are 0:22:11.720 --> 0:22:14.000 you four against the Second Amendment? That you know we're 0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:20.960 thirty years past that. It's really can we invest and 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:25.800 rebuild in community infrastructure in ways that make people feel 0:22:25.840 --> 0:22:27.440 safe and like they don't need to carry a gun 0:22:27.520 --> 0:22:29.960 every time they need the house? Leave the house? So 0:22:30.320 --> 0:22:33.240 I think, you know, that will depend on who's sitting 0:22:33.280 --> 0:22:36.159 on the Supreme Court. It depends on who's sitting in 0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:38.920 all the other judge, judge ships. I just think power 0:22:38.960 --> 0:22:44.159 will create the ability to change that conversation. And so 0:22:44.359 --> 0:22:48.160 the stakes of this coming election, like for everything else, 0:22:48.240 --> 0:22:50.639 could not possibly be higher. I just think that people, 0:22:51.119 --> 0:22:55.320 you know, people's great grandchildren will bear the implications of 0:22:55.359 --> 0:22:59.000 whether we have nine NRA Supreme Court judges or we 0:22:59.160 --> 0:23:02.360 whether we take back power on the Supreme Court, for example, 0:23:02.400 --> 0:23:06.160 And so guns are obviously one part of that story, 0:23:06.200 --> 0:23:07.960 but I think a pretty considerable one. 0:23:08.960 --> 0:23:11.479 So you, I mean, you come at this from an 0:23:11.480 --> 0:23:15.560 angle of we need to change course, but you still have, 0:23:15.920 --> 0:23:18.880 what I hear in your voice, a sense of hopefulness 0:23:18.960 --> 0:23:22.439 that like there is still fight to be had, and 0:23:22.480 --> 0:23:24.480 I think that, and I think, but you know, and 0:23:24.520 --> 0:23:26.199 I want to I want you to talk about that 0:23:26.240 --> 0:23:29.399 because I think that where this issue but a whole 0:23:29.440 --> 0:23:33.320 host of issues where people are feeling, you know, drained, 0:23:33.560 --> 0:23:36.160 and they're just like there is no hope. Every every 0:23:36.240 --> 0:23:39.960 day is another horrible headline. Every day is another policy 0:23:40.000 --> 0:23:43.280 that's being passed that goes against the will of the people. 0:23:43.359 --> 0:23:45.480 But Republicans don't care. 0:23:46.720 --> 0:23:50.280 Well, here's the thing. We have an ability, like you know, 0:23:53.119 --> 0:23:55.040 a year from now, we won't have the opportunity that 0:23:55.080 --> 0:23:58.520 we have now one way or another, so we actually 0:23:58.560 --> 0:24:02.760 have an election where we have a say in how 0:24:02.800 --> 0:24:04.560 things are going to play out. Now. I understand a 0:24:04.600 --> 0:24:06.840 lot of people are not thrilled with the two options, 0:24:07.440 --> 0:24:09.920 but there is I think Charles Blow was right about 0:24:09.920 --> 0:24:14.359 this over the weekend on Instagram. We have a really 0:24:14.400 --> 0:24:17.199 clear decision about the future of our country. There are 0:24:17.200 --> 0:24:21.840 two very radical decisions and directions. And not that like 0:24:21.960 --> 0:24:24.840 anyone is perfect, but these are the two decisions that 0:24:24.880 --> 0:24:27.359 we have, the two directions that we have, and so 0:24:27.920 --> 0:24:30.919 I think that either we're going to either we're going 0:24:31.000 --> 0:24:33.280 to kind of keep working towards the project that we're on, 0:24:33.600 --> 0:24:35.679 or the whole thing is going to kind of evaporate. 0:24:35.800 --> 0:24:39.480 And so at least right now, I'm optimistic because we 0:24:39.600 --> 0:24:42.679 have a voice right now. And as you know, I 0:24:42.680 --> 0:24:46.160 have a lot of I have a lot of liberal 0:24:46.640 --> 0:24:49.159 friends in Israel. And it's funny, but I was in 0:24:49.200 --> 0:24:53.359 Israel before Nitta Yah was elected and they were feeling like, 0:24:53.400 --> 0:24:55.919 oh my god, we're going through this again. We're exhausted. 0:24:55.960 --> 0:24:59.240 The problem in Israel was the other side, the right 0:24:59.440 --> 0:25:03.520 evil side in Israel, was totally mobilized, and so what 0:25:03.600 --> 0:25:05.919 happened in the Israel election, and I'll tell you why 0:25:05.920 --> 0:25:08.760 I'm telling you this, But what happened in Israel election 0:25:08.960 --> 0:25:13.479 was that the left voted in the same numbers that 0:25:13.520 --> 0:25:16.119