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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: And welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, there's Chuck. Ben's

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Speaker 2: here sitting in for Jerry. It's Ben h Week in

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Speaker 2: the producer's chair, and this is stuff you should Know.

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Speaker 3: I got a slide whistle in my Christmas stocking.

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Speaker 2: Do you realize you got me this slide whistle?

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Speaker 3: I know, but I got my own. Now.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, I thought we were talking about me.

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Speaker 3: No, no, no, I guess you're still enjoying it. You

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Speaker 3: brought it out, yes, yeah, I love it. Would you

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Speaker 3: use it for with peanuts?

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Speaker 2: I just thought it kind of fit the motif a

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Speaker 2: little bit comics, you know, so sure, I've been looking

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Speaker 2: for an opportunity to bust it out, and here we go.

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Speaker 3: I thought you because not everyone knows this, and this

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Speaker 3: almost never happens. We started to record. Josh said, hold

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Speaker 3: on a second and left, and I was pretty convinced

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Speaker 3: you were going to come back with a trombone and

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Speaker 3: a plunger.

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Speaker 2: It was close. That was close, man, that would have

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Speaker 2: been something. Now I suddenly am ashamed of my slide whistle.

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Speaker 3: Wah wah, wah, wah wah.

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Speaker 2: Exactly that was a pretty good one.

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Speaker 3: NICs.

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Speaker 2: Hey, while we're on that, Chuck, what you're talking about

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Speaker 2: is the adults in the Peanuts universe. You never see him.

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Speaker 2: You saw him once and it was just strange. You

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Speaker 2: can hear them off camera and they're discussed and talked about.

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Speaker 2: You just don't see them. But in the specials when

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Speaker 2: they talk, they talk like that, and it's a muted trombone,

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Speaker 2: like you said, a plunger and a trombone. And that

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Speaker 2: was the idea of Vince Giraldi, who was the guy

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Speaker 2: who created the soundtrack for the Peanuts Christmas.

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Speaker 3: Special, Dang Straight one of the I think that's a

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Speaker 3: number two best selling jazz record of all time, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, after Miles Davis is kind of blue, of course. Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Is it Giraldi? I thought it was Giraldi? Is it Giraldi?

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Speaker 2: I think it's kind of like that whole Gift Jiff argument.

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Speaker 2: The only person who can say is Vince Giraldi.

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Speaker 3: That's about to say his families like, it's not like

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Speaker 3: that at all.

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Speaker 2: So we're talking today about Peanuts. In case you didn't know,

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Speaker 2: it's funny. I was researching Peanuts and I came across

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Speaker 2: at least a couple results that were actually about peanuts

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Speaker 2: the food. It was a little confusing for a second,

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Speaker 2: but for the most part, there's a lot of really

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Speaker 2: interesting stuff out there that people have written about peanuts.

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Speaker 2: And I think the reason why is because it's really cerebral,

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Speaker 2: like surprisingly disarmingly cerebral, and people have gotten so much

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Speaker 2: out of it over the five decades that it was around,

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Speaker 2: or more than that by now almost seventy five years

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Speaker 2: since it started, that everyone just kind of loves it

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Speaker 2: and has some sort of emotional connection to it. So

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Speaker 2: there's been a lot of like good written analysis about it,

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Speaker 2: essays and odes and stuff like that.

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Speaker 3: Totally, and you know, one thing that I'm sure you

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Speaker 3: can verify, speaking for both of us, researching peanuts is

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Speaker 3: a hard thing to stop doing.

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Speaker 2: It really is.

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Speaker 3: You can just it's just one of these topics you

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Speaker 3: can just keep going and going and going, because it's

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Speaker 3: all interesting beyond the nostalgic love. It's interesting as an

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Speaker 3: adult to look back on some of this stuff, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: because it's really has you know, the way it's framed

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Speaker 3: in my mind at least, is a lot different now

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Speaker 3: than it was when I was a kid. Yeah, just

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Speaker 3: a landmark comic strip in every single way, one of,

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Speaker 3: if not the biggest and best ever.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's a very deceptive comic in that all

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Speaker 2: of the characters are kids, grade school kids. But it's

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Speaker 2: not a kid's comic. It's a comic for adults. And

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Speaker 2: I remember being a kid and like the extent that

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Speaker 2: I appreciated it was, you know, Charlie Brown flying through

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Speaker 2: the air, Lucy calling somebody a blockhead, or Snoopy doing

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Speaker 2: his thing. That was it. I didn't get any of

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Speaker 2: the existentialism associated with it. Nothing like that was totally

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Speaker 2: lost to me, and I think that's the way it

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Speaker 2: was meant to be. You know, sometimes people can create

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Speaker 2: works like The Simpsons are a good idea or a

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Speaker 2: good example where it can be enjoyed on multiple levels.

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Speaker 2: And that's true of Peanuts too. But the proportions are off.

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Speaker 2: It's not even like the adult enjoyment of Peanuts is

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Speaker 2: far greater and deeper than the kids appreciation of Peanuts.

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Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think it's definitely four kids. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I agree. I think it's just the proportions off.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I said.

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Speaker 3: I know, but at the beginning you said it's not

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Speaker 3: a comic for kids, it's for adults, and I disagree.

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Speaker 3: I think it's for kids too, but I think adults

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Speaker 3: can definitely gain more insight.

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Speaker 2: You know what, I have to say that what Peanuts?

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Speaker 3: All right, So you mentioned that Peanuts ran for almost

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Speaker 3: fifty years. She said five decades, and I know math

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Speaker 3: from October second, nineteen fifty to February thirteen, two thousand. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and for almost all of that that five decades, one

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Speaker 3: Charles Schultz drew seven Peanuts comics a week. I think

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Speaker 3: the Sunday started in nineteen fifty two for seventeen eight

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Speaker 3: hundred ninety seven comic strips. And he didn't farm these out, No,

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Speaker 3: he did them himself. And he found that one thing

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Speaker 3: that was like he also generally did them in pen

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Speaker 3: as well, because he was just so sort of decisive

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Speaker 3: in his work.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I saw somebody say, like, the average comic artists couldn't.

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Speaker 2: We would have trouble keeping up that level of dedication

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Speaker 2: for a decade, let alone five. Yeah, Like, just the

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Speaker 2: amount of dedication it takes to do that. Like, apparently

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Speaker 2: Charles Schultz was completely cut out for that kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: He wasn't a big fan of holidays because they got

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Speaker 2: in the way of his work. Like that's what he

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Speaker 2: was dedicated to. I saw one of his family members,

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Speaker 2: either a widow, ex wife, or a child, I can't

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Speaker 2: remember who said like, oh, I think it was one

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Speaker 2: of his daughters who said, like, his family was not

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Speaker 2: his everything, that the Peanuts comic strip was his everything.

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Speaker 2: That was his life, and he built a life for

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Speaker 2: himself and for his family outside of that. But I mean, like,

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Speaker 2: that's what that guy's purpose on earth was, and he

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Speaker 2: fulfilled it to the nines.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, one thing I can relate to, I

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Speaker 3: think both of us a little bit, is doing something

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Speaker 3: with consistency over a great deal of time. We're in

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Speaker 3: year sixteen, right, Can you imagine fifty years? No?

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Speaker 2: I really can't. But we've said stuff like this before,

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Speaker 2: so it's entirely possible we'll end up in year fifty.

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Speaker 3: I won't be around my friend.

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Speaker 2: That's not true. There's going to be all sorts of

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Speaker 2: great breakthroughs in medicine in the next decade or two.

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Speaker 3: I'm a ninety something year old podcaster. Than something went horribly.

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Speaker 2: Wrong, So there's a glitch in the matrix.

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Speaker 3: Huh, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: So one of the things about peanuts is that it's

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Speaker 2: universally loved because it was basically available throughout the universe. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: twenty six hundred newspapers. Is that it's peak, and it

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Speaker 2: was at a peak pretty much from the seventies onward,

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Speaker 2: twenty six hundred newspapers in seventy five countries and twenty

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Speaker 2: one different languages, and its readership was about three hundred

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Speaker 2: and fifty million people around the world. And I think

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Speaker 2: one of the reasons why it was so so widespread

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Speaker 2: is because the thing about peanuts, from all the research

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Speaker 2: I did and just kind of coming to understand what

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Speaker 2: the whole thing was about, is that it's about the

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Speaker 2: universal human condition. It's not just about Americans and what

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Speaker 2: Americans go through. It's not just about Canadians even and

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Speaker 2: what Canadians go through. That's about what every human alive

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Speaker 2: goes through. Its very basic human condition stuff. Is what

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Speaker 2: they're actually talking about and what are behind a lot

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Speaker 2: of the gags, And so that to me is pretty

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Speaker 2: much the explanation right there for why it's so universally loved.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and the human condition thing generally with Peanuts, wasn't

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Speaker 3: the thrill of victory but the agony of defeat. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: time and time again. These characters suffer setbacks and failures

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Speaker 3: over and over and over, and even when they're not

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Speaker 3: doing that, there are very few grand victories at all.

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Speaker 3: And it's amazing to look at it now that it was.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I guess people do connect with that, but

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Speaker 3: it's amazing to look at a comic strip in the

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Speaker 3: funny papers about these kids with such pathos and with

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Speaker 3: such failure and such, you know, sometimes clearly depression. It's

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Speaker 3: just it's really a remarkable cultural staple I think.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's much easier to think of now because

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Speaker 2: it's so widespread among comics. But at the time in

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Speaker 2: nineteen fifty, yeah, this was There was nothing like it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there have been some stuff about little kids

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Speaker 2: and kid groups that like comics that had focused on that,

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Speaker 2: some of which inspired Charles Schultz, but it was just

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Speaker 2: groundbreaking in every single way.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, totally. So should we go to the man himself? Yeah,

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Speaker 3: let's all right. So Charles M. Schultz was born in

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Speaker 3: November twenty six, nineteen twenty two, in Saint Paul, Minnesota.

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Speaker 3: He got the nickname Sparky when he was a kid,

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Speaker 3: well when he was a baby in fact, because his

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Speaker 3: uncle saw him and thought that he looked like this

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Speaker 3: character from another cartoon called Barney Google named Sparky, so

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Speaker 3: he nicknamed him Sparkplug. That became Sparky, and apparently everyone

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Speaker 3: who knew him and was close to him in his

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Speaker 3: life called him Sparky for his whole life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and apparently he always wanted to draw comics, even

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Speaker 2: from a young age. It was his aspiration that he

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Speaker 2: got to fulfill and then some. But his dad, Carl,

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Speaker 2: was a barber and he was I think a German immigrant.

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Speaker 2: His mother, Dina, was a Norwegian immigrant, so Charles was

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Speaker 2: a full first generation American kid. And he and his

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Speaker 2: dad loved to read the funny papers together, so that

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Speaker 2: was just kind of like his training came from just

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Speaker 2: enjoying it with his father, which is pretty neat. And

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Speaker 2: then his mother also, and this is fairly rare among

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Speaker 2: Western European or Northern European immigrant families. His mother encouraged

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Speaker 2: his drawing too. It wasn't looked at as just some dumb,

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Speaker 2: idle thing that was a waste of time. Like he

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Speaker 2: he was encouraged to follow his destiny.

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Speaker 3: I guess yeah. I thought I was hanging there. I

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Speaker 3: was wondering what was going to be dream destiny is perfect,

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Speaker 3: you know, slide with. So he was drawing, like you

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Speaker 3: said he was. He wanted to be a cartoonist from

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Speaker 3: a very young age, so he was drawing from a

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Speaker 3: very young age. He got published for the first time

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Speaker 3: when he was fourteen, which is remarkable in a newspaper

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Speaker 3: comic and a Ripley's Believe it or not comic. And

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Speaker 3: it was an image of Spike, the family dog, not

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Speaker 3: that Spike. We're going to get to Spike later. One

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Speaker 3: of my favorite characters in the Peanuts Cannon.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you like that, does Stash?

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Speaker 3: I love Spike. He was a desert hippie, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he totally wasn't he.

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Speaker 3: Was the best, But Spike was their family dog. It

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Speaker 3: was signed drawn by Sparky, so that was like his

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Speaker 3: first little cartoon signature was Sparky and Spike was a Pointer,

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Speaker 3: not a beagle. This wasn't Snoopy yet, but it was

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Speaker 3: the inspiration for Snoopy. I believe Spike was black and

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Speaker 3: white but was a pointer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so we've got like, this is a really good

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Speaker 2: example of what Charles did. He drew from his life,

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Speaker 2: sometimes drew people's names for the characters that he introduced.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes he would base characters and like their looks or

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Speaker 2: their demeanor on people he knew. And so Spike or

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Speaker 2: Snoopy being based on Spike is like pretty much par

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Speaker 2: for the course for what he did. And so fourteen

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Speaker 2: he gets his first cartoon published and Ripley's Believe It

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Speaker 2: or not, Believe it or not like you said. And

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Speaker 2: then as a senior in high school, he took a

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Speaker 2: correspondence drawing class from what was originally called the Federal

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Speaker 2: School of Applied Cartooning, a division of the Bureau of Engraving,

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Speaker 2: which happened to be located in Minneapolis, where he lived, essentially,

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Speaker 2: and that later went on to become Art Instruction Schools, Inc.

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Speaker 3: And for those of them, great name wise.

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Speaker 2: No, but I know for a fact that you're familiar

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Speaker 2: with this because you were a kid growing up in

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Speaker 2: the late seventies and eighties.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I know what's coming in those TV ads?

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Speaker 2: Do you remember?

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Speaker 3: Oh? I remember ads in magazines and comic books.

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Speaker 2: You're slightly older, so my age group had the TV ads.

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Speaker 3: We didn't have the picture box.

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Speaker 2: This was what you're talking about, were like magazine ads

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Speaker 2: that had Tippy the turtle, Tiny the mouse, or pirate

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Speaker 2: and you could choose which one to draw, and you

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Speaker 2: send it in and maybe you want a prize. But

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Speaker 2: really what you were doing was inadvertently sending your information

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Speaker 2: to art instruction schools who would try to recruit you

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Speaker 2: for their art correspondence course. And this is in the eighties,

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Speaker 2: I think they were still going into like the twenty tens.

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Speaker 3: Essentially, wow, really.

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Speaker 2: But that's where Charles Schultz received his initial training and

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Speaker 2: the cost for that was about thirty eight hundred dollars

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Speaker 2: in today's money. And don't forget like his dad's a barber.

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Speaker 2: Like barber's have never been particularly rich, so it was

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Speaker 2: like a big deal that his parents were helping him

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Speaker 2: out with this, this this correspondence course so that he

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Speaker 2: could go get formal training as a cartoonist.

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Speaker 3: Totally. He graduated from there, saw it all the way through,

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Speaker 3: went to work doing some various jobs here and there.

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Speaker 3: He was, you know, drawing cartoons, drawing comics, submitting them

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Speaker 3: ever he could. As you know, many stories like this goes.

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Speaker 3: He was rejected by everybody. Basically, the night before he

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Speaker 3: ships off for World War Two, his mother, Dina passes

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Speaker 3: away from cervical cancer. And this was a real sort

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Speaker 3: of lifelong scar for him. And you know, some people

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Speaker 3: say that, you know, sort of the pathos and the

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Speaker 3: deep loneliness that all the Peanuts gang felt was sort

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Speaker 3: of him getting this out. And as we'll see, you know,

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Speaker 3: everybody from his wife to people that have studied him

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Speaker 3: have confirmed and even Charles Schultz himself that like, each

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Speaker 3: of these characters is a little piece of him in

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Speaker 3: some way.

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Speaker 2: Right, So, yeah, he was he had to grab with

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Speaker 2: like basically a one two punch of trauma because after

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Speaker 2: his mom's death, like and he shipped out, he saw combat.

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Speaker 2: He was in combat, so he's dealing with combat. Well

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Speaker 2: he's also you know, dealing with the grief from the

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Speaker 2: loss of his mom. Yeah, so that's I mean, that's

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Speaker 2: gonna have a pretty big impact on anybody, you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. He makes it through the war, though

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Speaker 3: obviously goes back to Minneapolis, goes back to the art

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Speaker 3: school that he graduated from and got a job there.

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Speaker 3: So he was an instructor there and for about five

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Speaker 3: years he was still drawing still, I guess, looking at

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Speaker 3: pictures of pirates and turtles and things, and he was,

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Speaker 3: you know, he was getting his own style together. He

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Speaker 3: was learning about comics and how it all worked and

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Speaker 3: the business side of things. Right, and you said he

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Speaker 3: often named people after people in his reel life. Three

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Speaker 3: of his colleagues. There was one Charles Brown, a Linus Marr,

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Speaker 3: and Freda Rich.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Freda was a minor character with curly red hair,

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Speaker 2: but she wasn't the red haired girl that Charlie Brown

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Speaker 2: had an endless crush on. That was based on another person,

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Speaker 2: a woman named Donna Johnson, whom Charles Schultz dated when

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Speaker 2: they both worked at the Art Instruction school, and she

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Speaker 2: turned him down, and he forever, I guess, kind of

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Speaker 2: pined or kept a flame or something for her. At

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Speaker 2: the very least, she became the red haired girl that

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Speaker 2: Charlie Brown could never have.

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Speaker 3: Can you imagine being the inspiration for one of these characters.

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Speaker 2: I know, it's pretty cool. The guy was like the

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Speaker 2: Taylor Swift of his era.

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Speaker 3: Hey, she's got heiress.

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Speaker 2: And then also a little known fact that was a

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Speaker 2: good one, by the way, Donna Johnson who turned down

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Speaker 2: Charles Schultz and inspired the red haired girl went on

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Speaker 2: to marry instead a firefighter named al Wald, and al

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Speaker 2: Wald turned out to be the basis of the character

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Speaker 2: Gargamel in Peyo's Smurf's cartoon.

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Speaker 3: Amazing. So in nineteen forty seven he got his first

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Speaker 3: big sort of career break when he had his cartoon

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Speaker 3: litl Folks l i Apostrophel, which is weekly comic. He

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Speaker 3: got it in the Saint Paul Pioneer Press, and then

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Speaker 3: when he was twenty seven, in nineteen fifty, he got

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Speaker 3: a syndication deal for Little Folks and seven newspapers, not

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Speaker 3: one hundred. Yeah, and they had to change the name.

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Speaker 3: There was already a Little Folks and there was also

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Speaker 3: Lil Abner, and so they said, you know, we can't

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Speaker 3: really do this. We got to change it. So they

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Speaker 3: changed the name to Peanuts, reference to Howdie Duties Peanut Gallery.

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Speaker 3: And Schultz evidently never liked that name, even though it's

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Speaker 3: hard to imagine anything different now.

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Speaker 2: Oh no way. Plus also he's like, Peanuts is too

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Speaker 2: schmaltzy and sachrein give me Little Folks any day, right,

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Speaker 2: But yeah, he carried that around the whole career. He

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Speaker 2: hated the name Peanuts. He never came to like it,

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Speaker 2: which is bizarre. And then I guess with that syndication deal,

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Speaker 2: one of the really big things that happened was he

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Speaker 2: moved from this space filler section on like the women's

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Speaker 2: page in the Saint Paul Pioneer Press to the comics

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Speaker 2: page in addition to getting like a huge bump and pay.

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Speaker 2: So now he'd made it as a comic, his comic

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Speaker 2: was now on the comics page, which was a huge

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Speaker 2: deal to him.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, huge bump and pay. So he went to like

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Speaker 3: thirty dollars a week.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he had been making ten. And the editor of

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Speaker 2: the Saint Paul Pioneer Press was like, I'm not giving

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Speaker 2: you a dime more than that.

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Speaker 3: So the first Peanuts comic strip came on October second,

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Speaker 3: nineteen fifty and I think that is a pretty good

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Speaker 3: place for our first break, eh.

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Speaker 2: I think.

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Speaker 3: So, all right, we'll be right.

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Speaker 4: Back, softy jaw soff.

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Speaker 3: All right, So the first Peanuts is October second, nineteen fifty.

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Speaker 3: Snoopy the Dog appeared just two days later on October fourth,

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Speaker 3: nineteen fifties, for Snoopy's first appearance. Snoopy on four legs.

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Speaker 3: I don't think if you're not, you know, a big

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Speaker 3: Peanuts officionado, you might not know that Snoopy started out

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Speaker 3: much more dog like, and Charlie Brown would teach Snoopy

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Speaker 3: to walk on two legs, and Snoopy's character really more

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Speaker 3: than any other character in Peanuts changed over those fifty years. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: for sure, even though a lot of them changed quite

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Speaker 3: a bit. Because you know, like with anything with any

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Speaker 3: even television sitcom, like the characters really grow, like you

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Speaker 3: cast your cast, whether it's TV or it's a cartoon

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Speaker 3: or a graphic novel, and then as you write, they've

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Speaker 3: become real and they change, it evolved just like real people.

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Speaker 3: And that's certainly what happened to Peanuts.

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Speaker 2: Yah, that's pretty awesome. One of the other things about

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Speaker 2: that's widely recognizes about Peanuts is the style of the drawing,

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Speaker 2: of the writing, of the lettering, all that stuff. It's

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Speaker 2: just immediately recognizable as Peanuts. And Schultz's style was described

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Speaker 2: as a formal minimalism, and he had the four panel format.

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Speaker 2: I guess foisted it on him at first. Wow, there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of F's alliteration and he had to work

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Speaker 2: within it. And a lot of times just being constrained

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Speaker 2: by rules can actually produce the best art. You know,

364
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Speaker 2: sometimes when you don't have any rules, it's tough to

365
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Speaker 2: find your way or your direction where you're starting in

366
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Speaker 2: a structure can help a lot, and he really thrived

367
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Speaker 2: in that, even though he apparently didn't like having that

368
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Speaker 2: foisted on him. But this minimal style and the proportions

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Speaker 2: between the lettering, the like the the speech bubbles and

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Speaker 2: the kids and the panels, there is a study that

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Speaker 2: called it Schultze and symmetry, which makes a lot of sense,

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Speaker 2: and that what Charles Schultz did first was draw the panels,

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Speaker 2: then he wrote the dialogue, then he drew the characters.

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Speaker 2: And there's a writer named Ivan Brutelli who wrote in

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Speaker 2: the Parish Review that pointed out, like if you if

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Speaker 2: you look at a Peanuts cartoon, you're on like eye

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Speaker 2: level with them. You're not looking up, you're not looking down.

378
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Speaker 2: You are on their level. And in that way, it

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Speaker 2: draws you into the cartoon and you can imagine yourself

380
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Speaker 2: like in there with them. It makes it that much

381
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Speaker 2: more like it makes you part of that world and

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Speaker 2: vice versa.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the one thing I didn't get because that's

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Speaker 3: in that comic in the world.

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Speaker 2: Uh so before him, yes, now, before him, that was

386
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Speaker 2: not the style.

387
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Speaker 3: Did they draw like they were looking down on top

388
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Speaker 3: of someone's head.

389
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Speaker 2: They did whatever they wanted, and each one was giant

390
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 2: and took up huge amounts of the newspaper, and they

391
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Speaker 2: were masterpieces, like they were works of art, oftentimes really surreal.

392
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Speaker 2: They were all over the place, all sorts of different perspectives.

393
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Speaker 2: This was new, and it was part of that formal

394
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Speaker 2: minimalism that it was this one that you looked at

395
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Speaker 2: it the one way from the side, at the in

396
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 2: these these specific proportions. It was it was something new

397
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Speaker 2: that he introduced.

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Speaker 3: Uh a little while ago, when you were saying that

399
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Speaker 3: those constraints can really lead to great things, I thought

400
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Speaker 3: you were going to say, unless it's family circus.

401
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Speaker 2: Oh do you not like family circus?

402
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 3: When was the last time you looked at family circus?

403
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Speaker 2: Let's see age seven?

404
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Speaker 3: Okay, it's terrible. Oh, I mean I loved that family

405
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Speaker 3: because I was a little kid that read the comics

406
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Speaker 3: like incessantly, but like humor in a family circus cone

407
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 3: just a single square was like, you know, Jeffy tripped

408
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Speaker 3: over the book.

409
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Speaker 2: Poor Jeffy, Jeffy.

410
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Speaker 3: The other good thing about getting Peanuts going was that

411
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Speaker 3: it was known and marketed as a space saving comic,

412
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Speaker 3: so those four panels could be arranged however you wanted.

413
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Speaker 3: If you wanted to draw a square, you could, If

414
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Speaker 3: you wanted them up and down, you could. So that was,

415
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Speaker 3: you know, a real benefit to a newspaper who were

416
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Speaker 3: when you do newspaper layout is a big part of

417
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Speaker 3: putting together a newspaper, making everything fit on the page.

418
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Speaker 3: So that was that was a big plus for him

419
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Speaker 3: as having that flexibility. I imagine Family Circus even more

420
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:55,440
Speaker 3: flexible just the one square. But because of this minimalism,

421
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Speaker 3: it really the character is what shown. Because it wasn't like,

422
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Speaker 3: look at this outstanding art, it's art we grew to love,

423
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 3: but it was look at these characters and look at

424
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 3: these emotions that these characters are feeling, and how they're

425
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 3: insecure and they're frustrated, right, and they're sad. But that's

426
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Speaker 3: also coupled with the fact that they were also very smart.

427
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Speaker 3: At times they were it could be very funny, but

428
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Speaker 3: a lot of times it wasn't funny at all as

429
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 3: far as just like you know, an lol type of funny.

430
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 3: It was something meaningful, right, but there was always a

431
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 3: lot of hope, I think, and you know, Dave helped

432
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Speaker 3: put this together. And he points out which Gas and

433
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:34,239
Speaker 3: other people have pointed out that no matter how many

434
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,919
Speaker 3: times Lucy holds that football, Charlie's gonna try and kick it.

435
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:39,440
Speaker 3: And it's not because he's dumb.

436
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 2: No, And that's I mean, that's part of a gag, right,

437
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,239
Speaker 2: that he's she's going to pull the football away at

438
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 2: the last moment, he's going to go flying through the air.

439
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 2: But the bigger part of the gag is that he's

440
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 2: going to keep trying, and you know that she's not

441
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,360
Speaker 2: going to let him kick that football, and yet he's

442
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 2: going to keep trying and trying. You know, Like that's

443
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 2: the dual level that Peanuts exists on. It's a good

444
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 2: example of that.

445
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:08,119
Speaker 3: Who was the uh? When Peanuts turned one hundred, there

446
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 3: were some of the most major comics did tributes me

447
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 3: and you sent along. Some of those was that Mark

448
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:14,880
Speaker 3: Trail who let him kick the football?

449
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 2: Close?

450
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 3: Who was this?

451
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:17,640
Speaker 2: It was Gil Thorpe.

452
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 3: I did know Gil.

453
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 2: Thorpe, so if you want to, I actually tears were

454
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 2: brought to my eyes. I'm not gonna I was crying

455
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 2: the If you want to just feel incredibly moved, wait

456
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 2: until the end of this episode and then go look

457
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,639
Speaker 2: up the November twenty second, twenty twenty two comic strip

458
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 2: of gil Thorpe and you will be moved. It's amazing.

459
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 3: All the tributes were amazing. Yeah, and it was so

460
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 3: cool to see Snoopy in a garfield and high and Lois,

461
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:53,479
Speaker 3: even though I didn't like them, go in for marriage

462
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 3: counseling with Lucy, like, oh yeah, it's it was a surreal,

463
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:01,199
Speaker 3: like amazing tribute mash up and pretty wonderful thing.

464
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. It was part of this drive for basically every

465
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 2: comic artist working at the time to create a tribute

466
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 2: comic on November twenty six, twenty twenty two, which was,

467
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 2: like you said, Charles Schultz one hundredth birthday, or would

468
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 2: have been had he lived to one hundred.

469
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 3: Family circus didn't do it.

470
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 2: They did.

471
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 3: No, they said, Jeffy's gotta flush his pencil down the

472
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 3: toilet instead.

473
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 2: No, they did something I don't remember, but it wasn't

474
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 2: like it wasn't dead on. It was a little off.

475
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 2: Now that you mentioned it, although so Family Circus has

476
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 2: one of the sweetest single panel comics I've ever seen

477
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 2: in my life, though I saw years ago when it

478
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,160
Speaker 2: came out, and still to this day, I think it's

479
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 2: one of the sweetest things ever.

480
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 3: It's did Jeffy's step in the Mud.

481
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 2: No, Jeffy wasn't even in the panel, so you would

482
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 2: have loved it. You know, jeff does the Family Circus Now?

483
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 3: Oh, is he the real sign?

484
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 4: Yeah?

485
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 3: I feel terrible.

486
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is gonna because he's list to him. He's

487
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 2: a huge stuff. You should know, faim So Little PJ.

488
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 2: The baby, Yeah, is coming up. He's got a blanket

489
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 2: with him. He's in his maybe Little Pj's or whatever,

490
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 2: huge smile on his face and he's just gotten up

491
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 2: from a nap. And it says the caption is here

492
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 2: comes Sunshine.

493
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 3: I love it. See I take it all back, Family Circus.

494
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 3: I loved it. It was wonderful, it was wholesome, but

495
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 3: as a kid who's into comedy, it didn't deliver the

496
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 3: laughs that I needed.

497
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 2: Sure, I'm trying to think of for me. The Far

498
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 2: Side was the first comic that I ever like, genuinely

499
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 2: laughed at.

500
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 3: Oh see, that didn't come along until I was older.

501
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 2: So yeah, same here. I mean like it was the

502
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 2: mid eighties, so I was easily ten at least, and

503
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 2: I'd just been sitting there dourly reading comics up to

504
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 2: that point.

505
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 3: Oh see, I was. I was laughing at all that stuff, Bay, And.

506
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I loved all of them, like you said, Hi

507
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 2: and Lois Hagar, the Horrible, all those. I don't think

508
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 2: any of them ever made me laugh until Farside came along.

509
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 2: All right, So wait, no, I want to talk more

510
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 2: about that than that phenomenon.

511
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 3: It didn't take long for Peanuts to become a really

512
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 3: big deal. Just five years in, when he was thirty

513
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 3: three years old, Peanuts, I'm sorry, Chultz was named Cartoonists

514
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 3: of the Year.

515
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 2: Yeah that's huge.

516
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 3: So that's only five years in. And then ten years

517
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 3: after that, Peanuts was on the cover of Time magazine.

518
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:31,400
Speaker 3: Pretty big, two huge, huge deal. I already mentioned sort

519
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 3: of like you know, you're sort of like casting a

520
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 3: player or a TV show, But Charles Schultz actually talked

521
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 3: about that that writing a comic is like casting a

522
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 3: drama company, and that these characters do grow and change

523
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 3: over time, and before he knew it, humor started coming

524
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 3: out of their little mouths, and he was almost like

525
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 3: a conduit.

526
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 2: It feels like, Yeah, he definitely was. And what's remarkable, though,

527
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 2: is over fifty years he never seemed to have gotten

528
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 2: all of it out. Because I think you said earlier,

529
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 2: people widely consider the Peanuts characters to all be parts

530
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 2: of Charles Schultz's Psyche. Essentially. Art Spiegelman, the guy who

531
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 2: created Mouse, said that Peanuts was Shultz breaking himself up

532
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 2: into child sized pieces and letting them go at each

533
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 2: other for half a century. Yeah, and his widow Jeanie,

534
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 2: said that specific characters were meaningful to Schultz himself as

535
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 2: far as Psyche was concerned. He said that Charlie Brown's

536
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 2: is wishy, washy and insecure side, Lucy's a smart Alex side,

537
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 2: which he enjoyed having because apparently he wasn't particularly good

538
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 2: at getting that out in person. Linus curious and thoughtful side,

539
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 2: and then Snoopy, this is important to me. Snoopy is

540
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 2: the way I would like to be, fearless, the life

541
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 2: of the party, and brushing off Lucy's bad temper with

542
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,479
Speaker 2: a glance and kiss. And don't you think it's telling

543
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 2: that he made the character that he aspires to be

544
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 2: the most the dog.

545
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 3: Telling in what sense.

546
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 2: I think it just says a lot about him that, like,

547
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 2: at the very least he thought of dogs.

548
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 3: Oh, he loved his dogs, right, And I think.

549
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 2: That's pretty difficult to dislike anybody who loves dogs like that.

550
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 3: You know that Garfield guy hates cats?

551
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, he loathes them.

552
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 3: I collected those books too. Actually, well, now they think

553
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 3: about the first one. That really not the first one

554
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 3: that made me laugh, but the first one that hit

555
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 3: me on a second level was bloom County.

556
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah.

557
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 3: I was huge into Garfield and bloom County.

558
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 2: I loved Garfield. I had those books too. They were

559
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 2: world class. The colors too in Garfield comics are really great.

560
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 3: I still get a cat that he's Lasagna. I still

561
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 3: got all those Bloom County books too. Those hold up?

562
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you are you bequeathing them to Ruby?

563
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 1: Uh?

564
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 3: Boy? I mean she won't get him now, that was

565
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 3: for no.

566
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 2: No.

567
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 3: I mean, oh sure she'll get everything. Yeah, good, But

568
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 3: I want to like show her at some point when

569
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 3: she's like twelve, You're like, hey, you should check out

570
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 3: bloom County. There's a penguin who's friends with a a

571
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 3: crazy street cat.

572
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 2: She's gonna be like, So, let's talk about some of

573
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 2: these everybody, that's the last time I'll do that.

574
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 3: Oh no, we'll get emails that people like more slaveless.

575
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 3: Let's talk about some of these main characters. Obviously, we

576
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 3: can't hit them all, because there were more than seventy

577
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 3: characters throughout Peanuts, but we're gonna hit the big EIA's

578
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 3: of course, starting with Charlie Brown and that iconic shirt.

579
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 3: That was another sort of thing with Peanuts is that

580
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,479
Speaker 3: they would change clothes some times. Oh yeah, but like

581
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 3: Charlie Brown had that shirt on almost all the time.

582
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 3: Lucy wore that blue dress for decades until they phased

583
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 3: out the dress in the eighties and then completely stopped

584
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 3: putting her in dresses in the nineties.

585
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 2: Oh really, what does she wear?

586
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 3: I haven't noticed, Just pants and a shirt, Like I

587
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 3: think they changed with the time a little bit like

588
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 3: why I put in nineties, two thousands Lucy in a

589
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 3: little like eineteen fifties curly dress. Gotcha at least you

590
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 3: know full time. But Schultz said that Charlie Brown, of

591
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 3: Charlie Brown, we all know what it's like. To lose,

592
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 3: but Charlie Brown kept losing outrageously. It's not that he's

593
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 3: a loser. He's really a decent little sort. So I

594
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 3: think that's a big point. Like Charlie Brown is constantly losing,

595
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 3: but that's different than being a loser. Those are two

596
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 3: different things.

597
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, And in that sense, you can consider him like

598
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 2: the everyday person, especially if you're coming at Peanuts and

599
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 2: life from the viewpoint that the general common thread in

600
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 2: the human condition is not like winning and feeling happy,

601
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 2: but feeling dissatisfied and losing pretty frequently. That that's the

602
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 2: thing that all of us are equally accustomed to, and

603
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 2: Charlie Brown exemplifies that more than anybody. Although if you

604
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 2: really look at Peanuts, pretty much every character, with the

605
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 2: exception of maybe what Stock and Snoopy, more often than

606
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 2: not did not get what they wanted. They didn't win,

607
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 2: they didn't get a good grade. They had trouble understanding

608
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 2: things like if you look at Peppermint Patty, she was

609
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 2: good at sports, terrible at school, and there were plenty

610
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 2: of panels that had her not understanding what the teacher

611
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 2: was saying or what she was even saying. Marcy, her

612
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 2: friend really good at school, terrible socially, she was very awkward.

613
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 2: I think Charles Schultz described her as a very strange

614
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 2: little girl. So none of them were just like we're

615
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 2: just like one dimensionally happy or winning in any way,

616
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 2: shape or form. That's just not how Peanuts was or

617
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 2: just one dimensional. No, And that's the other thing. First,

618
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 2: there were plenty of like background stock characters for sure

619
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 2: that weren't fully fleshed out, But the main characters that

620
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 2: were talking about they were multi dimensional for sure.

621
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. So back to Charlie Brown. He was bald,

622
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 3: which I always thought was very very strange. He had

623
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 3: that big moon head and that little squiggle of hair

624
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 3: up front that as a kid, I even remember thinking like,

625
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 3: what is going on with this kid? I'll never understand it.

626
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:17,320
Speaker 3: Apparently he patterned that after his own quote bland face

627
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 3: that he had when he was a baby. So that's

628
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 3: Charlie Brown. Lucy van Pelt is probably, I mean I

629
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 3: would call her the second lead probably, Okay, wouldn't you.

630
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,399
Speaker 2: I don't know this snoopy somehow in the mix there,

631
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 2: and but I don't know if he'd be second lead lead. First,

632
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,359
Speaker 2: he's just like almost on his own trip off.

633
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think Snoopy is almost his own thing. It

634
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 3: was almost like a spin off within a cartoon. Weird,

635
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 3: but Lucy had black hair again. She had that blue

636
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 3: dress for many, many years. She was born, or at

637
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 3: least born in the comic on March third, nineteen fifty two,

638
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 3: and she was a toddler at first, but she quickly

639
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 3: grew up. He didn't. I think he realized that there

640
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 3: wouldn't many dimensions with a toddler character. She's kind of

641
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,359
Speaker 3: annoying and just crying and stuff. So by fifty three,

642
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 3: like just a year later, she was the wonderful fuss

643
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 3: budget we all know as Lucy. And this is a

644
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 3: good example of a character being different, like through adult eyes.

645
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 3: When I was a kid, I was like, Lucy is

646
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 3: really mean.

647
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 2: She's a pos she is.

648
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 3: She's a real jerk. She's super vain. She's always asking

649
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 3: people how she looks, and if they don't say she's

650
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 3: pretty enough, she gets really upset. But now that I'm

651
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 3: an adult, I look at Lucy and I realize that

652
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 3: Lucy is a young girl who is deeply insecure and

653
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 3: who has no idea how to express her emotions in

654
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 3: a productive way. And these are like adult things that

655
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 3: you realize once you get to be an adult. But

656
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,760
Speaker 3: Lucy was mean. She was really really mean to line us.

657
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 2: He's just maybe insecure, Chuck, because I was thinking, how

658
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 2: compassionate of you that does. But apparently that's just the

659
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 2: grown up view of Lucy, which I haven't attained yet. Still,

660
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 2: I think she's awful.

661
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, maybe having an eight year old daughter too

662
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 3: and seeing insecurities and stuff like that.

663
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, but everything you just said are all the reasons

664
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 2: why Lucy is the last character in the Peanuts universe

665
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 2: who should put out a shingle for psychiatric help, right,

666
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 2: and instead of a lemonade stand offer psychiatric help to

667
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 2: anybody for five cents. And that's what, Yeah, it is.

668
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 2: It is a wonderful bit in and of itself. And

669
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 2: then also it's a great bit in that, even though

670
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,359
Speaker 2: she's terrible at it and she has her own insecurities

671
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 2: and is just an awful person in a lot of ways,

672
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 2: at least on the surface herself, she's also maybe the

673
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 2: one that's in the best position to give out psychological advice,

674
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 2: not with any kind of spoonful of sugar, but telling, yeah,

675
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 2: telling things as it is and like not not even

676
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 2: you a sugarcoat of version of reality, but saying like

677
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 2: you need to just do this.

678
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. One of my favorite panels that I

679
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 3: was or strips that I was kind of looking through

680
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 3: over the last few days, was because Schultz has talked

681
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 3: about every character has their own weakness, and he said

682
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 3: hers is Schroeder. Yeah, she could be sentimental with him.

683
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 3: And there was one panel where she asked him why

684
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 3: he never gave her flowers and he said, because I

685
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,879
Speaker 3: don't like you. She said, well, the flowers wouldn't care.

686
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 3: So she had her moments like she was super mean

687
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 3: to linas she would. One of the running bits was

688
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 3: trying to get rid of his little Woody, his security blanket,

689
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 3: like she buried it, she burned it, she cut it

690
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 3: up into little pieces. In one storyline, she made it

691
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 3: into a kite and let go of it and it

692
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,320
Speaker 3: flew all over the world and the Air Force rescued

693
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 3: it over the ocean nice and brought it back. So

694
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:58,479
Speaker 3: she was really mean to Linus. But there was one

695
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 3: comic where she said she demanded to know from Linus

696
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 3: what she has to be grateful for, and he said,

697
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,280
Speaker 3: you have a brother, who loves you, and she busts

698
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 3: out crying and hugs him.

699
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very sweet.

700
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 3: So again it's a little girl who's just insecure and

701
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 3: doesn't know how to deal with emotion.

702
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, fine, fine, he's great love Lucy about

703
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:25,439
Speaker 2: Shorter though, So Shorder's the kid with the piano who

704
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:26,240
Speaker 2: plays Beethoven.

705
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 3: Worship's Beethoven virtuoso.

706
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 2: If you look at the ones where he's playing the

707
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 2: piano and those panels, there is like musical scales and

708
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 2: notes like instead of dialogue bubbles at the top of

709
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 2: the panel.

710
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:39,359
Speaker 3: Right.

711
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, those were all hand drawn in hand lettered by

712
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 2: Charles Schultz. He found it very tedious but important because

713
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:53,320
Speaker 2: they were accurate. They were accurate transcriptions of snatches of

714
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 2: Beethoven's music. So if you know how to play the piano,

715
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 2: and you looked at that Peanuts comic, you could play, Hey,

716
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,240
Speaker 2: what Schroeder was playing at that time?

717
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 3: Amazing?

718
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 2: Isn't that amazing? That's serious accuracy.

719
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 3: All right, Hey, listen, I got something to pitch. What

720
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 3: this thing is going to be way long? Yeah, So

721
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 3: I say we make this a two parter. Let's take

722
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 3: a break and then maybe come back and talk about

723
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 3: Linus and Snoopy.

724
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 2: I say, we save Snoopy for part two.

725
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 3: All Right, we'll take a break, we'll come back, we'll

726
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 3: talk a little bit about Linus, and then I'm sorry everyone,

727
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 3: this is just too robust. We're gonna make this a

728
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:30,879
Speaker 3: two parter, so we'll be right back.

729
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 4: Softy jaw.

730
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 2: Soft, Okay, Chuck, we're back. We were talking about Lucy.

731
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 2: You said she was super mean to Linus, and I

732
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:06,720
Speaker 2: would say that's in part because Linus was Lucy's little brother.

733
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 2: Is Lucy's little brother. I don't know why I'm talking

734
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:11,760
Speaker 2: about them in past tense. They're still very much alive.

735
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean it nails like so

736
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:21,280
Speaker 3: many sibling dynamics. I think while there are older sisters

737
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 3: who are very caring and loving for their youngers, there

738
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 3: are some who are in older siblings period who did

739
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,800
Speaker 3: not want that baby around. And from the beginning, Lucy

740
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,800
Speaker 3: didn't want a little brother. And in fact, when Sally

741
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,720
Speaker 3: Brown came along, Charlie's little sister, Lucy was very jealous

742
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,720
Speaker 3: because she said that she wanted a little sister. Oh yeah,

743
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 3: and I'm just like poor Linus, poor guy.

744
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, poor rerun too. They both had a younger brother,

745
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 2: even younger than Linus, named Rerun.

746
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:51,800
Speaker 3: I wouldn't round for Rerun. When did he come around?

747
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 2: I don't know. I wish you hadn't asked me that,

748
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 2: But he was around for a while, Okay.

749
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 3: I think that was maybe after I stopped reading the comic.

750
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 2: So let's talk about Linus for a second, because a

751
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 2: lot of people consider him some sort of genius or

752
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 2: at least precociously intelligent.

753
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 3: For sure.

754
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 2: One of the reasons why is because he frequently cites philosophers.

755
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:23,760
Speaker 2: He's just clearly well read. He loves school. His teacher,

756
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 2: Miss Othmar. He's quoted as saying that she's a gem

757
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 2: among gems, and he can't imagine that she would ever

758
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 2: accept money for teaching because she's just such a purist

759
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 2: and is so talented at being a teacher.

760
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 3: Like what kids says?

761
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 2: That right? So yeah. And at the same time, though,

762
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 2: one of the contradictions in terms of Linus is that

763
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 2: he also is far and away the firmest believer in

764
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 2: the Great Pumpkin. And there's a really great strip with

765
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 2: him writing a letter to the Great Pumpkin asking him

766
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 2: to bring him some toys and then at the end

767
00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 2: of the letter he says, and by the way, if

768
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 2: you not real, don't tell me because I don't want

769
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 2: to know.

770
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,359
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it is very sweet that this kid who

771
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 3: talks about philosophy and like the high arts is a

772
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:14,879
Speaker 3: believer in the Great Pumpkin and also very sensitive. He's

773
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,800
Speaker 3: he's easily the most sensitive, like kind of purest character

774
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 3: in the Peanuts catalog. I think. Yeah, he's got that

775
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:27,919
Speaker 3: security blanket. And apparently Charles Schultz, if he didn't coin

776
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 3: that term security blanket, he he made it what it

777
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 3: was and popularized it as such as a as something

778
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 3: a child will have, yeah, which is pretty amazing.

779
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. So the original security blanket was an actual blanket

780
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 2: that you pinned to the crib or the bed so

781
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 2: that your kid couldn't move.

782
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 3: Yeah. It's called super dangerous.

783
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and also like torture I think is another word

784
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 2: for it. And then the military and defense sector picked

785
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 2: it up and used it as a metaphor for the

786
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 2: measure and lengths you went to to keep state secret secret.

787
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 2: But it was Charles Schultz who's like, no, this has

788
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 2: has to do with angst and anxiety, and yeah, that's

789
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 2: that's it. Was Lionis who spread the gospel to the

790
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 2: world about security blankets.

791
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I called it a woobye earlier, and that is

792
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 3: stolen directly from mister mom Oh, yeah, who I think

793
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 3: originated that term.

794
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, wooby's a great, great word for it too.

795
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, or binkie. I'm not sure who who made that

796
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:25,799
Speaker 3: one up, but binkie's a big one.

797
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 2: I don't either. I can't even hazard a guess, but

798
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 2: I've heard that one too before. Did you have a blanky?

799
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 2: I had a blanky?

800
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 3: You had a blanky?

801
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:37,319
Speaker 2: Yes? Man, that thing was scattered by the time I

802
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 2: gave that up.

803
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I had a pillow. I don't remember if I

804
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 3: had a name for it. But it was this little

805
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 3: kind of like a hand pillow if that's the thing.

806
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 3: It wasn't like a full sized pillow. And I would uh, man,

807
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 3: this is just coming back to me. I would rub

808
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 3: it between my fingers, like over the finger and then

809
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:57,920
Speaker 3: down the little valley between the fingers, over and over

810
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,200
Speaker 3: and over. And I will also stick it in my ear.

811
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:02,799
Speaker 3: And I remember this was a white pillow. And this

812
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 3: thing was so disgusting by the time I got rid

813
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 3: of it from like earwax and finger gook that. I

814
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 3: don't mean. My mom certainly would have never said like

815
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 3: it's time for that to leave, but it may have just,

816
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 3: you know, disappeared.

817
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,400
Speaker 2: I don't remember I went to go live on a farm.

818
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly. No, Yeah, with my goat, that's exactly what happened.

819
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:25,959
Speaker 2: What else you got?

820
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 3: Well? Nothing, I mean, that's all I got online? Is

821
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 3: I think that's a good robust part one.

822
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 2: I think so too, So let's start part two in

823
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 2: a minute.

824
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 3: Okay, sure, reminder to everyone to go out and get

825
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 3: tickets for our live show this year. Yeah, there won't

826
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 3: be any listener mail, so we'll just go in a

827
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:43,759
Speaker 3: live show tour plug. How about that?

828
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, so go to stuff youshould know dot com or

829
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 2: link tree, slash sysk and you can get info and tickets.

830
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:51,839
Speaker 2: Yeah that's a great idea, chuck.

831
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, so don't wrap up an email and spank it

832
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 3: on the bottom. Yet you got to wait, right.

833
00:44:55,960 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 2: Not yet? Here's the awkward non clapping transition for a

834
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:01,879
Speaker 2: very special two parter.

835
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

836
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:12,239
Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

837
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,