1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,000 Speaker 1: I was at the White House recently, and it reminded 2 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: me not only of all the living mementos that were 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: all over the place, but the examples of all of 4 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: those men who have passed through that house and what 5 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: they left us. How can you incorporate their pattern of 6 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 1: success and wisdom into your own life? Esteemed presidential historian 7 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: Talmudge Boston will tell us, and I'll give you a 8 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: little tour of the Oval Office all on this edition 9 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: of a Royal Grande. I'm raving Arroyo. Welcome to Arroyo Grande. 10 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 1: I was in the White House recently, and I have 11 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 1: to tell you it never fails to impress me. Everywhere 12 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: you turn is history. Everywhere you look, there's a touchstone 13 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: if you know what you're looking for. By the way, 14 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: go subscribe right now to the show on YouTube or 15 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts and turn those notifications on. 16 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: I don't want you to miss an episode. We were 17 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: shooting an interview at the White House and Laura and 18 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 1: the Angel crew and I were in the Diplomatic room. 19 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: I was kind of in awe because that is the 20 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: fireplace that Franklin Delano Roosevelt installed in nineteen thirty five 21 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 1: to conduct his fireside chats during World War Two. The 22 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: room is used formally to welcome diplomats and state visitors. 23 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,039 Speaker 1: The cool antique wallpaper on the walls. There that blue 24 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: antique wallpaper. It dates back to eighteen thirty four and 25 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 1: it was installed by Jackie Kennedy. President Trump then took 26 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: us down to the Oval Office. I'm in the portico 27 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: the White House, and well, you know what this room is. 28 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 2: So here's a question. 29 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 3: I asked, So, Reagan has a place of prominence and 30 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 3: George Washington is a place of prominence. 31 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: And I've asked this question maybe two hundred times. 32 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 2: People come in. 33 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 3: I said, so, who would you put in the place 34 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 3: of prominence? 35 00:01:57,600 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: George Washington? 36 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 2: Ronald? Who would you put. 37 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: Washington? So forth's two hundred and nineteen to zero. President 38 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,079 Speaker 1: Trump has kind of turned the place into his own, 39 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: blinged out presidential museum. There are by my count, twenty 40 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 1: portraits now hanging in the Oval Office, as well as 41 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: some added gold here and there, and an original copy 42 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: of the Declaration of Independence. Portraits of Washington, Fdr. Reagan, 43 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: and Yes Lincoln surround the president all day long. What 44 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: amazed me was his familiarity with his predecessors and Trump's 45 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: veneration of them and what they contributed to the country. 46 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: And I guess they tell us something about this president. 47 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 1: For instance, he is a portrait I noticed on the 48 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: far wall across from the resolute desk of James Polk. Okay, 49 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:55,519 Speaker 1: it's next to the fireplace. Well, Polk expanded the US incredibly. 50 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 1: He annexed Texas from the Mexicans. He claimed the whole 51 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 1: Southwest region in California and Washington State, Oregon, Idaho, parts 52 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: of Montana. All of that became part of the United 53 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: States due to James Polk. So you see the connection 54 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: there to President Trump. There's also a portrait of and 55 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: this was an odd one for me. At first I 56 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: didn't even recognize him the person, but it was a 57 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:26,239 Speaker 1: portrait of William Henry Harrison, whom I asked the President about. 58 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 3: But Harrison died twenty ninety days after he made the 59 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:31,359 Speaker 3: inauguration speech. 60 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 2: He was freezing Cone. 61 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 3: They died, and you had the Civil War. He was 62 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 3: the strongest opponent against. 63 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: Or he was a peacemaker. Now, yeah, it. 64 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 3: Would have been different, and then you wouldn't know about 65 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 3: Abraham Lincoln. But you wouldn't have known about Haimry now 66 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 3: because when you saw Wars. 67 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: Unfortunately, you don't get the same credit President Trump in person. 68 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: I have to tell you he's disarming, hilarious, always on point, 69 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: and you know what is super power. He speaks like 70 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: every other guy does. There's no pretense. He will meet 71 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: you wherever you are, whether high born, middle or low. 72 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: He's there. It's incredible, really Also to see the White 73 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: House and to see it up close for as long 74 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: as we were there. But that visit got me thinking 75 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: about what lessons could we learn you and I from 76 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:26,039 Speaker 1: all the presidents who preceded Trump, which brings us to 77 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: our deep dive. I sat down with a presidential historian, 78 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:33,239 Speaker 1: Talmage Boston, who wrote a book called How the Best 79 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: Did It? Leadership Lessons from our top Presidents, and he 80 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: offered quite a few of those lessons. Tell me about 81 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: applied history. There's a lot of people watching, tuning in, 82 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 1: listening and they say, Eh, this is stuff that happened 83 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 1: so long ago. It doesn't this has no application in 84 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: my life. 85 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 2: Well, I think that's why people aren't paying enough attention 86 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,039 Speaker 2: to history of these days, because they don't realize how 87 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 2: useful it is if you not only read it and 88 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 2: enjoy it, but think, how can I apply what these 89 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 2: heroic figures did to my life? And that's what my 90 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 2: book How the Best Did It Leadership Lessons from our 91 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 2: Top President attempts to do is to say, here were 92 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 2: the three greatest traits that made Thomas Jefferson such a 93 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 2: great president? Or John F. Kennedy or Franklin Roosevelt or 94 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 2: George Washington. And at the end of every chapter there's 95 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 2: a series of questions called personal application for the reader 96 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,480 Speaker 2: to ask him or herself, how am I doing in 97 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 2: these leadership traits that made this president so great that 98 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 2: I just read about. 99 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: Let's dive into some of these. Some of them was 100 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 1: very familiar with. Others surprised me. George Washington not the 101 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: success on the battlefield initially that he would end up 102 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: being to great a claim. How did he learn from 103 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: his mistakes? She'll say he profited from those mistakes. 104 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 2: Well, most people when they think about George Washington and 105 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 2: why such a heroic figure is because at the end 106 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 2: of the Revolutionary War he left power behind. I want 107 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 2: to go back to Mount Vernon. I don't want to 108 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 2: be the leader. And then, of course after he left 109 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 2: the presidency a second term. I want to go back 110 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 2: to Mount Vernon. I don't want a third term. But 111 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 2: he had learned his lesson during the French and Indian War, 112 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 2: when he'd been our most courageous American soldier fighting for 113 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 2: the British. But because he deemed himself to be so 114 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 2: career courageous, he kept leaning on his superiors, Hey, I 115 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 2: need a promotion, I need advancement, and they rejected him, 116 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,239 Speaker 2: and he learned the lesson, don't be an obnoxious self promoter. 117 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 2: Let others be the people in the business of promoting you. 118 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 2: And for the rest of his life, that's why he's famous, 119 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 2: because he never promoted himself after his Revolutionary War heroics 120 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 2: or his presidency heroics. He let other people sing his praises. 121 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: And he let the deeds in the action speak for him. 122 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: Absolutely tell me he was also in your book, you 123 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:55,840 Speaker 1: describe him. Ron Chernoll's book also describes him in a 124 00:06:55,920 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: similar fashion as a strong, silent type. How did that 125 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: benefit him? How could we benefit from that? 126 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 2: I think we could all benefit from the concept of 127 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 2: less is more. Washington was a great listener. Washington knew 128 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 2: he was not a great public speaker. He had two 129 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 2: strikes against him. Number one, he had a soft, breathy 130 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 2: voice that came from a childhood respiratory illness. And secondly, 131 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 2: by the time he was president, he only had one 132 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 2: tooth in his head. So if you go to the 133 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 2: museum at Mount Vernon you see George Washington's dentures, you say, 134 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 2: how could anybody talk with that bird cage in their mouth? 135 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 2: But anyway, he learned when to speak and more importantly, 136 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 2: how much to listen. He was a great decision maker. 137 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 2: He was not a great debater. So during his presidency, 138 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 2: with Hamilton on one side and Jefferson on the other 139 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 2: and they're arguing all the time, Washington would not take sides. 140 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 2: He saw himself as the nation's unifier in chief. I'm 141 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 2: not going to take sides. You guys, go back to 142 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 2: your office, submit a detailed position paper on these issues 143 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 2: you're arguing about. Give it to me. I'll make the 144 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 2: final decision. But that was his approach to trying to 145 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 2: keep the country unified. 146 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, you talk about when you mentioned Hamilton and Jefferson, 147 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: I know I'm a huge Hamiltonian and a big Alexander 148 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: Hamilton fan. Long before the musical I was collecting his 149 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: works in New York followed his career. There. Tell me 150 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: about how Washington in the book, you say he was 151 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: the conscience in chief and Jefferson observed that his greatest 152 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: character trait was prudence. Tell me about that. What can 153 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: we benefit from How can we take something from that 154 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: example of prudence and character? 155 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 2: Well, character and conscience in chief, it's all about integrity. 156 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,439 Speaker 2: It's all about telling the truth. It's all about when 157 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 2: you speak publicly the next day, we don't need fact checkers. 158 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 2: And so Washington believed that, starting off the nation's new president, 159 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 2: if we're going to stand for anything, we better stand 160 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 2: for integrity. And so that was something that he would 161 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 2: never compromise and one of the reasons he was so 162 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 2: revered throughout his lifetime. But in terms of prudence, back 163 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:07,079 Speaker 2: to what I was saying, a great decision maker, capacities, 164 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 2: what's in the best interests of the country, not one 165 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:14,079 Speaker 2: side or the other, but the country. And that's why 166 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 2: we revere him so much. 167 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: He's but these men had flaws, and Washington had flaws 168 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: which you don't shy away from. 169 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 2: Well, in every chapter I have a section on that 170 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 2: president's flaws, because I don't want anybody on a pedestal. 171 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 2: I want people who read this book to say, this 172 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 2: guy had all kinds of flaws, but he did great things. 173 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 2: You and I we have all kinds of laws, but 174 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 2: we're capable of doing great things if we'll tie into 175 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 2: these leadership trail. 176 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:40,559 Speaker 1: Well, what's the danger of And I hear this all 177 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 1: the time. I mean, you hear it in classrooms, You 178 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: hear it. I hear it when I visit classrooms. There's 179 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 1: a presentism that has gripped I think America, where we 180 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: evaluate the past based on our present moras, our present history, 181 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: our present cultural appetites. What's the danger there for student 182 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: of history? Can you really can you really embrace history 183 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:03,959 Speaker 1: if you come with the bias of the present. 184 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 2: No, absolutely not. And so that's why people who own slaves, 185 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 2: like George Washington, like Thomas Jefferson, people are taking their 186 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 2: statues down. And that's unfortunate because in their era, of course, 187 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 2: slavery was permitted under the Constitution. And if you have 188 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 2: a great, big plantation in Virginia, as both Washington and 189 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 2: Jefferson did, there's no labor force. You can't possibly have 190 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 2: enough children to be able to take care of these 191 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 2: massive plantations. There's no infusion of European workers. And so 192 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 2: because it was legal, it was constitutional. The only source 193 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 2: of a big labor force to be able to work 194 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 2: your plantation hopefully make money out of it. They had slaves, 195 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 2: and most of the plantation owners in the South had that. 196 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 2: And if people aren't aware of those economic circumstances, then 197 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 2: they have lost the truth as far as I'm concerned 198 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 2: as to why did these guys do this, Not because 199 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,319 Speaker 2: they were evil, not because they were immoral, but because 200 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 2: they were living in the real world in their time 201 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 2: and not with a twenty first century social consciousness. 202 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the evil, the evil of slavery, I mean, 203 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: Adams was aware of it. You have the Founding fathers 204 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: wrestling with the the inhumanity and the evil of slavery. 205 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 1: But it was an economic reality that they dealt with 206 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: and they embraced, you know, and and it was a 207 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: practice until it wasn't tell me for a moment about Jefferson. 208 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 1: When you mentioned George Washington a minute ago, I didn't 209 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 1: realize you taught me a lot about Thomas Jefferson. I 210 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: didn't realize he wasn't a great speaker. I always fought 211 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: in my mind reading the debates of he and Alexander Hamilton, 212 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 1: that he was his great order. He wasn't What did 213 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:48,679 Speaker 1: that teach teach you? What should to teach us? 214 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 2: Well, he had a soft voice. He couldn't project. Of course, 215 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 2: we were more than a century away from microphones. He 216 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 2: was great one on one. He was great in small groups. 217 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 2: He was charming, he was conversation well, he was a genius. 218 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 2: He knew how to get people to work together. And 219 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 2: that was the great triumph of his presidency. The country 220 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 2: had been so divided during Adam's presidency, and Washington and 221 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 2: Jefferson would host these dinners with people from both sides. 222 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 2: We're not going to talk about hot button issues. We're 223 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:20,679 Speaker 2: gonna drink wine, We're going to eat food. We're going 224 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 2: to talk about what we do for a living, what 225 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 2: our hobbies are, etc. Etc. We're going to talk about 226 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 2: the things people talk about when they're trying to make friends. 227 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 2: And it didn't happen at the first dinner, but he 228 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:31,959 Speaker 2: had two to three dinners every week for eight. 229 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:35,319 Speaker 1: Years because he preferred those intimate, smaller gatherings becaucause it's 230 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: convinced people one on one. 231 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 2: And because he knew that's how you get people to 232 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 2: think in terms of being unified as opposed to being divided, 233 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 2: that if I decide I like you, I'm more likely 234 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 2: to give you the benefit of the doubt. And for 235 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 2: me to decide I like you, I have to know you. 236 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 2: I have to socialize with you. I have to know 237 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 2: what you really like, what do you talk about, what 238 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 2: do you tell jokes about, what's your sense of humor? 239 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:00,719 Speaker 2: And all that came through in these Sheriffs Dinners. And 240 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 2: fortunately there's a movement in this country right now if 241 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,319 Speaker 2: you google Jefferson Dinners, people all over the country realizing 242 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 2: how polarized we are, saying we need to do something different, 243 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 2: We need to have a level of harmony and capacity, 244 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 2: mutual respect, civility. And that was the great triumph of 245 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 2: Jefferson and those Dinners that brought the country back together. 246 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,559 Speaker 2: And of course he's got eight years presidency. His best 247 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 2: friend Madison follows for eight years, then Monroe, the little 248 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 2: brother figure, another eight years. So it carried the country. 249 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 2: It got the country moving in the right direction. 250 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 1: And jailed the country in a way that it was 251 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: from those intimate gatherings, and that struck me. We don't 252 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 1: have those, we're deprived of those. I mean, well, you 253 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: and I live in the South, so we're different creatures. 254 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 1: But in many parts of the country there's that division. 255 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 1: You don't have that kind of unity, and sharing meals 256 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 1: is not as treasured as it is, I would argue 257 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 1: in parts of the South. 258 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 2: Well, you think about Washington, d C. You think about 259 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 2: how was thirty forty years and long before that, people 260 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,199 Speaker 2: who are in Congress lived there. Yea, and their wife 261 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 2: and their spouses knew each other, and their kids played 262 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 2: all together, and they would run into each other in 263 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 2: restaurants and do all that to build relationships. Now, if 264 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 2: you're in Congress, you spend maybe four days a week there. 265 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 2: The other three days you got to be back home 266 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 2: raising money constantly, and your families usually and your family's there, 267 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 2: so you don't have these relationships. And that's why there's 268 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 2: such hostility between the party, because people don't know each 269 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 2: other on that kind of social level. 270 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: There's a line in the book I Love where you 271 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 1: talk about the empire of the imagination that Jefferson had. 272 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: How did he feed that? And what can we mere 273 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: mortals learn from his example. 274 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 2: Well, when you think about the word imagination in the 275 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 2: context of politics, you think about long term vision, what 276 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 2: are the possibilities. Of course, he was brilliant, he was 277 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 2: well read, he knew his history from all over Europe, 278 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 2: the history of the world, and so he could think 279 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 2: of different options along with his best friend James Madison, 280 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 2: and that's what they did. Madison there at the father 281 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 2: of the Constitution, that's where his focus is. And Jefferson 282 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 2: got this brand new country. 283 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: What do we want it to be? 284 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 2: What are our ideals? What do we want to persuade 285 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 2: people to move their lives toward. And obviously, if you've 286 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 2: got imagination, you can think of many different options that 287 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 2: potentially are going to provide great benefit for the country. 288 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: And a splendid isolation. You're right about he would take 289 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 1: time along. When you go to Monticello, you see it. 290 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: He's got the bed and that kind of sitting that 291 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: round sitting room with his desk which he could turn 292 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: and you know, follow the sunlight. So it wouldn't abandon him. 293 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: I mean, the brilliance of that mind, but taking the 294 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: time to feed it and be alone with his thoughts. 295 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 2: Solitude is the key talk to anybody who's creative. They 296 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 2: don't do it in noisy places. They don't do it 297 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 2: amidst distractions. They do it in solitude. And Jefferson understood that. 298 00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 2: And that's where you have reflection, that's where you're imagination 299 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 2: can run wild. That's why I write books. It is 300 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 2: a creative outlet. And I don't write books in noisy places. 301 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: You don't when do. 302 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 2: You're right right early in the morning in my home, 303 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 2: between four and seven thirty am, when there's no noise, 304 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 2: there's no emails, there's no phone calls, and all I 305 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 2: can do is think about what I'm reading, researching, and writing. 306 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: You don't write in public places at all. You don't 307 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: have coffee shops. Now, I need the din of a 308 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: coffee shop to get that isolation. At home, I'm to 309 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: distract the phone that the kids, whoever it's getting a 310 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: distraction anyway. A trusted peer? How important is a trusted 311 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: peer a sounding board? Jefferson had Monroe had Madison at Madison, 312 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: James Madison. 313 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 2: That's right. 314 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: Tell me about that relationship and how important a trusted 315 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: peer is for anybody a citizen, but particularly an entrepreneur, leader. 316 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 2: Well, particularly somebody who's in the business of ideas and 317 00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 2: public policy. Jefferson was a dreamer person, had a lot 318 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 2: of unrealistic ideas. They were fine, they were exciting, but 319 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 2: Madison would bring him down to earth. Madison, on the 320 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 2: other hand, was so grounded. He wasn't particularly creative. So 321 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:15,919 Speaker 2: they had this wonderful symbiotic relationship. Were ones providing the imagination, 322 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:18,120 Speaker 2: the other ones keeping the feet on the ground, heading 323 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 2: the clouds feet on the ground, and together made the 324 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 2: best of all worlds. Two plus two equals five. 325 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,239 Speaker 1: How did he deal with divisions? Washington dealt with kind 326 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 1: of letting everybody fight it out. How did Jefferson deal 327 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:35,160 Speaker 1: with divisions in the country, political differences and in his cabinet? 328 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 2: Well, he wasn't in the business of traveling around the 329 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 2: country the way Washington did. But he was in the 330 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 2: business of taking the representatives from Congress, and as I mentioned, 331 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 2: having these dinners and building these relationships, knowing these were 332 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 2: the people who were the representative of those people all 333 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 2: over the country, who would know what the public sentiment 334 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 2: was of the people in their constituency, and he could 335 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:01,640 Speaker 2: direct his policies based on that note of the sentiment 336 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 2: and finding ways to make it more appealing based on 337 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 2: his vision for the entire country. 338 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: I want to move on to Lincoln, who is a 339 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: great figure that I will confess as a child growing 340 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: up in New Orleans, Lincoln was not regarded as the 341 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,159 Speaker 1: greatest figure of all time, and they were still the 342 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 1: rumbles of the Civil War that ran through. But when 343 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: you look at this record, when you look at what 344 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 1: he did and accomplish, it's I mean, he is. His 345 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: achievement is untouched, unmatched. 346 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 2: Well, there are so many ways to look at it, 347 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:38,160 Speaker 2: but here's a guy who had less than one year 348 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 2: the formal schooling in the blab school as a child, 349 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 2: when everybody's talking simultaneously, nobody's learned anything, and yet he 350 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 2: becomes our most eloquent president. Why how well? He was 351 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 2: a voracious reader his entire life, being from a poor 352 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 2: family that only had three or four books in the house, 353 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 2: true of all his neighbors too. But they were the 354 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 2: King James Bible, they were Shakespeare's plays, they were books 355 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:04,199 Speaker 2: of the great poets, they were fables. And because he 356 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 2: had a photographic memory, he could remember all this stuff 357 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 2: and could work Shakespeare into conversations and speeches and the 358 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 2: parables the lessons of Esop's fable. So we thought in 359 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 2: those terms. I like stories, but I like stories that 360 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 2: teach a lesson. 361 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: Tell me about you talk about the great magnanimity of Lincoln. 362 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:29,199 Speaker 1: I call it the mercy of Lincoln. Talk to me 363 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: about that. This is a This is kind of an 364 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 1: I think under explored part of Lincoln's gifts to the country. 365 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:43,959 Speaker 2: Magnanimity means you are great of spirit. It means you 366 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,399 Speaker 2: always take the high road. It means you're forgiving. You 367 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:51,199 Speaker 2: turn the other cheek, you don't take the bait. And 368 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 2: so Lincoln He's got this team of rivals cabinet who 369 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 2: start out hostile and most of them come around. He's 370 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 2: got these goofy Union generals, particularly McClellan and then Mead, 371 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,400 Speaker 2: who don't do what they're supposed to do. He's got 372 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 2: this very difficult wife, Mary. He's got the Southern states 373 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:11,639 Speaker 2: who are seceding, even though he says, I'm going to 374 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 2: let you keep slavery. So he has all these different 375 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 2: constituencies who are giving him all kinds of friction, all 376 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 2: kinds of reasons to get angry and retaliate, and he 377 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 2: never does. He takes the high road always, and he 378 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 2: also has equanimity. He's always calm, he doesn't explode under control. 379 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 2: Despite this war going on, that's going to seven hundred 380 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 2: and fifty thousand, people are going to lose their lives, 381 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 2: millions are going to be wounded, amputees, et cetera, et cetera, 382 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:39,440 Speaker 2: and losing a child alone. 383 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: That's what I was about to bring up. Willie, Willie's son, 384 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: Willie dies in the White House. 385 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:47,640 Speaker 2: He gets past the grief, he gets past Mary's daily craziness, 386 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:52,640 Speaker 2: He gets past all the tensions on all fronts from politics, 387 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,640 Speaker 2: and always has his eye on the ball. We got 388 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 2: to win the war. We got to bring it into slavery. 389 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 2: We've got to bring the country back together other again, 390 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 2: and never losing sight of the big picture. 391 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: Talk for a moment about people. Don't people ignore this, 392 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 1: have forgotten it, or never were taught it. After the war, 393 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:17,880 Speaker 1: the mercy that Lincoln shows the Confederate States, even when 394 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 1: his own generals, his own cabinet was like, no, go in, 395 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: take it over, go go crush it. But he has 396 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 1: a great line. I wrote it down. If you don't 397 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 1: win the peace, you don't win the war. He was 398 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: focused on that. How did that mercy extend to those 399 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 1: Southern states that were in rebellion. 400 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:38,399 Speaker 2: Well, unfortunately he was killed very shortly after Appomatics, But 401 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 2: in terms of his vision for how he wanted the 402 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:45,400 Speaker 2: country to be unified, he knew for the Southern states 403 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 2: who've been killing each other, killing us and vice versa, 404 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 2: to come around, they've got to feel like we are merciful, 405 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 2: to use your good word, and that we are forgiving, 406 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 2: and that we're in the Union, and that we want 407 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,080 Speaker 2: them to succeed in their lives and their businesses and 408 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 2: their families. And Lincoln's whole perspective was We're going to 409 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 2: make that happen. We're going to view them in a 410 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 2: way that will be constructive and that they will want 411 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 2: to play ball and reunite. Unfortunately, because he was assassinated 412 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 2: so shortly into his second term and then the disastrous 413 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 2: Andrew Johnson followed and it all went to hell. But 414 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 2: in terms of what Lincoln's vision. 415 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: Was returning the returning the property to them after the war, 416 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: which was something that some were advising him take the property, 417 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: take it all, but he thought, if you pledge fidelity 418 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,640 Speaker 1: to the Union, you can have your property back, we'll 419 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 1: be brothers again. The wound. 420 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 2: It's kind of a runner to the Marshall Plan. It's like, 421 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 2: after World War Two, we want these people to be 422 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 2: our allies. We need to take care of them. They 423 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 2: need to have good lives, they need to feel good 424 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,640 Speaker 2: toward us. And that's exactly what was Lincoln's attitude as 425 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 2: it was in the Marshall Plan. 426 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: Tell me about his He really had had a fantastic 427 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 1: focus on mission, beyond the strife at home, the pain 428 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 1: he was going through. I mean, I tell the story 429 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,919 Speaker 1: in my book on Tad Lincoln and Lincoln that he 430 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: would sign those pardons and hear those pardons all night long. 431 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,879 Speaker 1: People would line up outside the White House, the Union 432 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,400 Speaker 1: soldiers that had run from the field, the parents would 433 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 1: complete his mercy, and he would give them pardons eighty 434 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: eight percent he gave pardons to and Tad Lincoln's next 435 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 1: to the desk watching all of this, which is kind 436 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: of an interesting you know, back and forth, how he 437 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,440 Speaker 1: taught his son through his example. But speak about the 438 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: focus on mission, how the mission and what he was 439 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,440 Speaker 1: about was bigger than any of the side. 440 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 2: I mean, he was aware that people make mistakes, people 441 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 2: are flawed, and are you just going to destroy their 442 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 2: lives because they made a mistake. Are you going to 443 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 2: think of ways to rehabilitate them, give them a second chance. 444 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 2: And that's what those pardons were all about. I mean, 445 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,359 Speaker 2: fighting in that war was as hell on earth as 446 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 2: you can imagine. The Obviously, it was very dangerous, the 447 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 2: conditions were terrible. You're away from your family forever, you 448 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 2: have friends and loved ones being killed. And for somebody 449 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 2: to say, I don't think I want to be a 450 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 2: part of this anymore, on the one hand is cowardly. 451 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 2: Doesn't support the effort, but it's understandable and maybe the 452 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,400 Speaker 2: guy can come around and have a useful life thereafter. 453 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 2: That was Lincoln's thinking. 454 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: Tell me about promises and delivering on promises, which is 455 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,440 Speaker 1: a big focus in your book and a big part 456 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 1: of Lincoln's precedence. 457 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 2: Right. Stephen Covey, who wrote The Seven Habits of Highly 458 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 2: Effective People, said, if I had to boil them all 459 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 2: down into four words, it's make and keep promises. And 460 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 2: that's what Lincoln did. First and foremost. The promise he 461 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,360 Speaker 2: kept to marry they had been engaged. He had realized, 462 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 2: I'm not sure this is right, he broke off the engagement. 463 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 2: He nearly had a nervous breakdown, but he came back 464 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,159 Speaker 2: and realized, as a matter of honor, I've got to 465 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 2: keep this promise made when I agreed to marry. They reconcile, 466 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 2: they marry, and of course they stay married. But on 467 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 2: the issue of slavery, he hated slavery, but he also, 468 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,880 Speaker 2: as a master politician, knew he couldn't come out as 469 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,119 Speaker 2: an abolitionist early on. It was going to take time. 470 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:16,360 Speaker 2: And so that's why the first in argy to address 471 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 2: he's saying, you guys in the South, you'll get to 472 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 2: keep your slaves. We just don't want them in the 473 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 2: western territories. We don't want slavery to expand. But then 474 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 2: over the course the war, of course the turning point 475 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 2: is the Emancipation Proclamation. Then that truly changed the whole 476 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 2: outcome of the war and pushes him toward the thirteenth 477 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 2: Amendment and the elimination of slavery and keeping that promise 478 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 2: which had started in New Orleans when he took that 479 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 2: riverboat down and saw slaves being auction and going, I 480 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 2: can't deal with this. I can't deal with this. This 481 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 2: is as wrong as anything can be. Someday, I'm going 482 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:54,879 Speaker 2: to do something about it, and he kept that promise 483 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 2: to himself. 484 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: Let's talk about Theodore Roosevelt, who is one of my 485 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 1: favorite presidents. I think i'd like your input. Do you 486 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,199 Speaker 1: see shades of Theodore Roosevelt in Donald Trump? 487 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,400 Speaker 2: Well, they are both men of action and New Yorkers 488 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 2: and New Yorkers, and so you can say that they 489 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 2: had high ambition. They wanted to make the most of 490 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 2: their presidency. Theodore Roosevelt is highly regarded from a historical 491 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 2: standpoint because during his almost eight years, there wasn't a war, 492 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 2: there wasn't a depression, and yet he's regarded as a 493 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 2: great president. Why in large part because he expanded the 494 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 2: presidency Panama Canal, busting the trust, national parks, intervening in 495 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,400 Speaker 2: the cold strikes, all of these things, finding ways where 496 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 2: Congress was not dealing with what needed to be done. 497 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 2: And so he said as a president he was big 498 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 2: on executive orders. So there are comparisons between the desire 499 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 2: to expand the presidency, for the president to be more 500 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 2: impactful for a and impatience and almost disregard of. 501 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 1: Congress and thrilling that thrilling excitement that Roosevelt would generate. 502 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: I mean, you see the pictures of him in front 503 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: of crowd, standing on a carriage or something and yelling 504 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:18,679 Speaker 1: out and there are thousands of people. That electricity is 505 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 1: something that we really haven't seen, you know, Goodwill. I mean, 506 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: you had Obama. We did see it with Obama, but 507 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:25,679 Speaker 1: Trump is something different. 508 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,120 Speaker 2: Well, you saw it with John F. Kennedy, you saw 509 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 2: with Ronald Reagan, you saw it with Franklin Roosevelt. And 510 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 2: we've had eloquent presidents. But Trump certainly has his supporters 511 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 2: where he wants them. They share his every sentence, his 512 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 2: every whether it's trying to be funny. Sometimes you don't 513 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 2: know whether he's telling jokes or not. But in any case, 514 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 2: his supporters are all in seemingly on every issue with 515 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 2: very few exceptions. 516 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: Tell me about Roosevelt. One of the things that I've 517 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: always loved about him. First of all, he wrote what 518 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:02,399 Speaker 1: thirty five books on naval his on natural history. I mean, 519 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 1: the man was but he was somewhere in the book, 520 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:10,400 Speaker 1: well maybe I read it elsewhere. He's described as swelling 521 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: with knowledge. He absorbed knowledge. He's this explorer. He's always 522 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: trying to dive in and absorb all he can. How 523 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,439 Speaker 1: do we do that? Why is that important for any leader? 524 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 2: Well, it helps to have a photographic memory, and he 525 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,120 Speaker 2: order Roosevelt, like Abraham Lincoln, had that. He could read 526 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 2: a highly technical book ten years ago and still be 527 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,359 Speaker 2: able to recall with the specifics of what he had read. 528 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 2: So I say he's our highest IQ president. He wrote 529 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 2: more books in any president. He read more books in 530 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 2: any president, and he could quote them all. So it's 531 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 2: always great to be brilliant if you're in a leadership position, 532 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 2: and he was certainly that. Back to the point on Jefferson, 533 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 2: if you're going to have vision, you've got to think 534 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 2: of many different options and choose the best one. And 535 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 2: if you have more knowledge, then you know of that 536 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 2: many more options that you might consider before you make 537 00:28:58,440 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 2: the final decision. 538 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 1: And I love Roosevelt. You write in your book that 539 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: he read, he reflected, and then he wrote. And when 540 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: you follow that pattern of reading, reflection and writing, the 541 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,719 Speaker 1: writing does cement it in your soul somehow. I mean 542 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 1: you know this as a writer. Once you've absorbed that 543 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: much and to spend that much time with it, it 544 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: does brand itself and it will lead you in a 545 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 1: different way. 546 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 2: Well, the beauty of writing and the reason I do 547 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 2: it is because it brings closure. You've got all this 548 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 2: information bouncing around on your head, and yet if you 549 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 2: don't take the time to put it into writing your 550 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 2: final thoughts, with multiple revisions, bouncing it off your friends 551 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 2: before it goes to the publisher, to make sure that 552 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 2: you've hit the nail on the head. But that's the 553 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 2: reason I write, to bring closer to my thoughts that 554 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 2: if I didn't stop to write it down, they just 555 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 2: keep bouncing around in my head. 556 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: Roosevelt is a great inspiration for that to take the time. 557 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: In fact, when you go to the house, when you 558 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 1: go to the old Roosevelt House, which is a recreation 559 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 1: in New York, the Hussman torn down. They rebuilt it, 560 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: but it's an exact replica. There is the actual little 561 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 1: velvet chair that Roosevelt would read in as a child. 562 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 1: Because of the asthma, he couldn't get out, he couldn't 563 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: run around, but he immersed himself in a world of 564 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: imagination and ideas. And it was on that little velvet 565 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 1: chair really where the entire future of the United States 566 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: was hatched. It was there that he first saw the 567 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 1: buffalo and saw those images. I mean, it's an amazing 568 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: the power of the mind and reading and visuals so important. 569 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 2: Well, there are famous photographs of Theodore Roosevelt when he 570 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 2: would go on these trips abroad or wherever, he take 571 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 2: thirty five books with him and he'd read a book 572 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 2: of Dyer every two days. I mean, he never stopped reading. 573 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 2: He was a compulsive reader. Because of the compulsive learner, 574 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 2: and if you're going to be a leader, it's good 575 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 2: to always be in a learning mode. 576 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: Love that. Tell me about this line of Theodore Roosevelt 577 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: where he said, don't hit till you have to. But 578 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: when you hit, hit hard. 579 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 2: Well, it aligns with speak softly and carry a big stick. 580 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 2: I mean, the premise is clear, there's no need to 581 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 2: hit hard unless it's absolutely necessary. But if you decide 582 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 2: it is necessary, then go for it. Take it down 583 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 2: and take it down, knock him out and noted TKO 584 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 2: the whole KO. And that was his whole mindset, and 585 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 2: you know a lot of people embraced it. Unfortunately, the 586 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 2: last ten years of his life after he left the presidency, 587 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 2: he made a lot of enemies and his taking down others. 588 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 2: His batting average went way down. 589 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, he kind of he kind of demolished a bit 590 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 1: of his damaged his reputation, didn't demolish, it damaged it. 591 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 1: Tell me about the lesson the cautionary tale in Theodore Roosevelt, 592 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 1: which I have to tell you, I read that whole 593 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: what was the great three. 594 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 2: Book biog ed trilogy. 595 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I was so lost in the narrative. I 596 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 1: didn't really see or spend any time thinking about the 597 00:31:55,200 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 1: cautionary Tale of Theodore Roosevelt that about burn upright overdoing you. 598 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, he ran his engine too hard, too long, and 599 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 2: ultimately it impacted his decisions, most notably when Woodrow Wilson's president, 600 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 2: World War one's going on. Tr wants the US to 601 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 2: join the war. He leans on Wilson when we finally do. 602 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 2: Tr goes to the White House and says, I'm fifty 603 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 2: eight years old, but I want to have another set 604 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 2: of rough riders and go over to World War One. 605 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 2: And Willis says, I don't think so, I'm not going 606 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 2: to permit that you're too old. So then Roosevelt goes 607 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 2: home and he pushes all of his sons to the 608 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 2: front lines, one of whom is killed, none of whom's 609 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 2: badly injured. I mean all kinds of bad stuff. And 610 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 2: that may be the main reason he died at such 611 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 2: a young age of broken heart. He finally realized this 612 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 2: wasn't the right thing to do for my sons, and 613 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 2: the guilt associated with that. So he was in an 614 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 2: overload mind, fortunately after the presidency, not during the presidency 615 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 2: when he was absolutely in his prime. 616 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 1: Wow, we'll return to our interview in just a moment. 617 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: But if I asked you which president first popularized ice cream, 618 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 1: you'd probably say Joe Biden. But you'd be wrong. It 619 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 1: goes much much further back than that, and wait until 620 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 1: you hear how it ends. In the seventeenth and eighteenth century, 621 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: French cookbooks started to feature recipes for ice cream. Now 622 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: they consisted mostly of egg yolks and cream and sugar. 623 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 1: Ice cream had come into fashion by seventeen eighty four. 624 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 1: That was the year that an American statesman was sent 625 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: to France on a diplomatic mission, and while dining there, 626 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 1: he must have been taken by the dessert, going so 627 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 1: far as to request the recipe. He wrote it in 628 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 1: his own hand as a matter of fact, we still 629 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: have the copy. He became, in fact, the first American 630 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 1: to ever write a recipe for ice cream out and 631 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: bring it back to the United States and waiting to 632 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 1: hear how it ends back to how it ends. So 633 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 1: in seventeen eighty nine, the American diplomat who had written 634 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:13,280 Speaker 1: the first recipe for ice cream returns to the United States, 635 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 1: and among the things he returned home with were four 636 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:22,279 Speaker 1: ice molds from France. Fast forward to eighteen oh one, 637 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 1: and that American diplomat, one Thomas Jefferson is elected president. 638 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,239 Speaker 1: Dinner guests at the White House noted that on at 639 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 1: least six different occasions that you can find this in 640 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:38,719 Speaker 1: their diaries or letters, Jefferson served ice cream in a 641 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 1: crust or pastry during White House suppers. If he didn't 642 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 1: introduce ice cream to the country, Jefferson certainly popularized and 643 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 1: spread love of the dessert among his fellow countrymen and 644 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 1: Jefferson's chef throughout his presidency. A man named Honore Julian 645 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:02,840 Speaker 1: in eighteen ten opened his his own confectionery shop in Washington, 646 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 1: d C. He would go on to sell ice cream 647 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 1: every Wednesday and Sunday during the warm season. Thomas Jefferson 648 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 1: was truly committed to life, liberty, and the pursuit of 649 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,919 Speaker 1: frozen sweetness. And that's how it ends. Something to think 650 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 1: about next time you reach for a comb. Now back 651 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,480 Speaker 1: to Talmadge Boston and what FDR and Ronald Reagan can 652 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 1: teach us about the power of words. Let's talk about 653 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:36,319 Speaker 1: FDR for a minute. Wrestled with polio. What does his 654 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 1: dealing with polio while in office and the ravages of 655 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 1: it teach any leader about dealing with personal setbacks, special needs, 656 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 1: or just mental or mental mental struggles. 657 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,359 Speaker 2: Well, the lesson of FDR and polio is that your 658 00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:01,239 Speaker 2: obstacles can be overcome and you will be, in most 659 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 2: instances a better person because of the perseverance you showed, 660 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 2: because of how it changed your personality many times for 661 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,800 Speaker 2: the better. After he got polio, all of a sudden, 662 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,239 Speaker 2: he was more patient, he was more empathetic. Thus he 663 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,920 Speaker 2: related to the American people that much better. His voice 664 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:23,719 Speaker 2: in the fireside chats, people felt like, this is somebody 665 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:28,800 Speaker 2: I could listen to all day because of that empathy 666 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:33,319 Speaker 2: in his voice, but also the fact that he was 667 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:38,279 Speaker 2: so committed to grasping the public sentiment constant press conferences, 668 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 2: constant trips across the country, brand new public opinion polls. 669 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,560 Speaker 2: He's wired in on. So he's doing everything he can 670 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,880 Speaker 2: to grasp where's the public sentiment and how do I 671 00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 2: need to shape it for the ultimate good? As he 672 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 2: did in the late thirties and early forties, America's isolationists, 673 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 2: they don't want to go to World War two, and 674 00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,720 Speaker 2: they broke and they broke, but they're led by American 675 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:04,440 Speaker 2: Charles Lindberg in FDR and those fireside chats. Look, folks, 676 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:08,080 Speaker 2: this is not about war. This is about national security. 677 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:10,800 Speaker 2: If we don't do something, this Hitler guy's going to 678 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,680 Speaker 2: take out Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia the high season and 679 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 2: he's coming for us. And so are we just going 680 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 2: to sit back and let him get a foothold in 681 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 2: this hemisphere and God knows what's going to happen then, 682 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 2: or are we going to do what we need to 683 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 2: do to put him down before he comes in attack. 684 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,600 Speaker 1: So the lesson for leaders is take the time to 685 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,959 Speaker 1: convince everybody read the room and bend it, to bend 686 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:35,399 Speaker 1: it to your way of thinking if you. 687 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,399 Speaker 2: Can, and don't think you can get it all done 688 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:39,960 Speaker 2: in the first conversation. It almost goes back to Lincoln 689 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 2: where he's saying He's not saying on day one, I'm 690 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,879 Speaker 2: an abolitionist. We need to eliminate slavery now after your 691 00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 2: wasn't saying we got to end isolationism now. If he had, 692 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,719 Speaker 2: it would have ticked most people off. You do it gradually, 693 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:54,960 Speaker 2: and they come around. The more they hear you, the 694 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,920 Speaker 2: more they believe in you, they start to rethink their position. 695 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:02,400 Speaker 1: I want to talk about Eisenhower moment. Who Eisenhower has 696 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,719 Speaker 1: a favorite quote that I pulled from your book, and 697 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,919 Speaker 1: it's Helmut von Moltke. I hope I'm pronouncing that right. 698 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:16,840 Speaker 1: He says centralization is the refuge of fear. That was 699 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:21,600 Speaker 1: one of Ike's favorite quotes. How did that idea shape 700 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,560 Speaker 1: the way he set up his organization, whether on the 701 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 1: battlefield or in the White House, And what can we 702 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:27,680 Speaker 1: get from that? Learn from that? 703 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 2: Well, Eisenhower knew that to take on the responsibilities he had, 704 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,799 Speaker 2: whether it was as Supreme Allied Commander during World War 705 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,520 Speaker 2: Two or as President of the United States, he had 706 00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,719 Speaker 2: to establish an organization. He had to delegate to top 707 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,759 Speaker 2: people and allow them to do their jobs. And yes, 708 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,799 Speaker 2: supervise them to make sure they were staying in their 709 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:51,080 Speaker 2: lanes and doing their jobs. But a master organizer, both 710 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,799 Speaker 2: as a war leader but also as president. In his 711 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,800 Speaker 2: presidency in particular, how he handled his cabinet, his National 712 00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 2: Security Council, his Office of Congression. In Leah's own they 713 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 2: all did their old thing. But he had regular meetings 714 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 2: with him, brainstorming sessions with him, debates with him. He's 715 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:10,759 Speaker 2: there in the loop and he's in theirs. He's the 716 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,319 Speaker 2: ultimate decision maker, but he is not in any way 717 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 2: in an information vacuum. He's constantly absorbing information to make 718 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,920 Speaker 2: sure he knows what the best thing for America is. 719 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:22,759 Speaker 1: And Friday meetings were mandatory. 720 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,440 Speaker 2: As a cabinet. You don't miss meetings with the president 721 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,120 Speaker 2: the United States. 722 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,520 Speaker 1: Well, but some presidents don't have regular cabinet meetings, which 723 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:32,600 Speaker 1: you need. You need if you're going to have any 724 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,840 Speaker 1: kind of structure or advance a vision. And I guess 725 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,920 Speaker 1: that's Ike's this really leapt out to me when I 726 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,359 Speaker 1: read your book. He really took those lessons of the battlefield, 727 00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:45,600 Speaker 1: which were gutsy decisions D Day. I mean, my lord, 728 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 1: who would want to make that call? But he did, 729 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,680 Speaker 1: and it was thank god it was successful. But he 730 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 1: really does transplant that the war model on the White 731 00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:57,000 Speaker 1: House and brings his peace and prosperity. 732 00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:58,920 Speaker 2: Well, think about it, think about here. He comes in, 733 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,440 Speaker 2: Truman gets us in Korea, has no idea how to 734 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,399 Speaker 2: get us out. Eisenhower, running for president nineteen fify two, 735 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,560 Speaker 2: says I will go to Korea. He does, and within 736 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,880 Speaker 2: six months the war is over. McCarthy isn't running rampant 737 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 2: under crewman. He comes in within a year he gets 738 00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:16,640 Speaker 2: that knocked out Little Rock nineteen fifty seven, in the 739 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:20,719 Speaker 2: after Matthew Brown versus Board of Education, he sends in 740 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:25,080 Speaker 2: the army and the military to enforce the Supreme Court 741 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,919 Speaker 2: order of integration of the public schools. So a very 742 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:34,600 Speaker 2: bold leader. But getting back to your point about he 743 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:36,719 Speaker 2: didn't have He didn't get bold until he had to be. 744 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:38,719 Speaker 2: But when I had to be, he was bold. 745 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,920 Speaker 1: Well, d Day, he waits and he waits, and he waits. 746 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,719 Speaker 1: The weather's lousy, and they wait, and then this is 747 00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 1: our moment to go to speak for a moment about 748 00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 1: the patience of Dwight D. Eisenhower and his how that 749 00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:58,800 Speaker 1: served him at the Suez Canal and I guess, and 750 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,759 Speaker 1: I guess Lincoln was another as well. 751 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,440 Speaker 2: No, he had a bust of Lincoln at Gettysburg at 752 00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:08,280 Speaker 2: his home. But anybody who's been a war leader knows 753 00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,440 Speaker 2: you better have the right timing before you make your moves. 754 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,520 Speaker 2: If you're premature, you're going to fail. And so this 755 00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:18,359 Speaker 2: sense of optimum timing was a big part. And' that's 756 00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:20,879 Speaker 2: just being wise, that's part of being an effective leader. 757 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:24,440 Speaker 2: And if you're impatient and impulsive, then don't expect anything 758 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,560 Speaker 2: good to happen. And so Eisenhower grasts that although there 759 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:29,840 Speaker 2: are times when you've got to move quickly, and that 760 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:36,240 Speaker 2: sus situation. Here's England, France, Israel, our allies have invaded Egypt, 761 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:40,240 Speaker 2: seize the Suez Canal. Eisenhower told him beforehand, don't do that. 762 00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:42,959 Speaker 2: That's going to invite the Russia, the Soviet Union into 763 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,320 Speaker 2: the Middle East. It's going to disrupt the balance of power. 764 00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,759 Speaker 2: Don't do that. And they did it anyway, So as 765 00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:49,800 Speaker 2: soon as they did it, boom. He's at the UN 766 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:53,600 Speaker 2: he gets huge sanctions imposed against him, and ultimately they 767 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:57,160 Speaker 2: get out very quickly. After he plays hardball. 768 00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,960 Speaker 1: We underestimate, we forget about Eisenhower. What a great president 769 00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 1: he was, and the period of peace he gave us. 770 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,319 Speaker 1: He's one of the few. I mean, I guess just 771 00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:09,360 Speaker 1: like and Trump really are the only presidents in the 772 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:13,520 Speaker 1: last what is it fifty years, sixty years who gave 773 00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:18,279 Speaker 1: us peace. We didn't actually have a war that they initiated. 774 00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:19,839 Speaker 1: That's a pretty amazing thing. 775 00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,760 Speaker 2: Well, anytime you can achieve peace, that's great. Of course 776 00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:25,799 Speaker 2: Trump has had his first term and there was no 777 00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:27,640 Speaker 2: war during that, and he's at the start of his 778 00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,879 Speaker 2: second term. Or keeping our fingers crossed, we don't want war. 779 00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:32,759 Speaker 2: We'll see what the future olds. 780 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,560 Speaker 1: You know. Let's talk about JFK and his self possession. 781 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:38,680 Speaker 1: That was what I came away when I read that 782 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:43,239 Speaker 1: chapter in your book, the self possession of self mastery 783 00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:48,360 Speaker 1: of JFK, and how he balanced those competing interests, considering 784 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:52,279 Speaker 1: all sides, taking the time to consider all sides. Talk 785 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,160 Speaker 1: to me about that and the importance of that to 786 00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:54,640 Speaker 1: a leader. 787 00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,799 Speaker 2: Well, he started his presidency with a total disaster in 788 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,920 Speaker 2: the Bay of Pigs, and he'd been in office three months, 789 00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,239 Speaker 2: and he followed the advice of his military advisors, joint 790 00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:08,279 Speaker 2: chiefs of staff at all says Oh yeah, this is 791 00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:10,200 Speaker 2: gonna work. We're going to send these guerrillas we've been 792 00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:13,319 Speaker 2: training in Central America. We're going to send them. All 793 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,640 Speaker 2: these Cubans don't like Cuban, and when the gorillas arrive, 794 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:17,520 Speaker 2: the citizens are going to rise up. They're going to 795 00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:22,879 Speaker 2: overthrow Cuba. It'll all be great. Wrong, the gorillas were outmanned. 796 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:27,840 Speaker 2: The Cuban soldiers defeated him immediately, and Kennedy gets on 797 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,839 Speaker 2: national TV and tells the American people, I screwed up. 798 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:36,040 Speaker 2: I didn't fully study this. I'm taking the blame. I've 799 00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:39,200 Speaker 2: learned my lessons. And eighteen months later he proves with 800 00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:43,280 Speaker 2: the Cuban missile crisis, not to rubber stamp and accept 801 00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:47,279 Speaker 2: the advice of your military leaders. Make your own decisions, 802 00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:52,279 Speaker 2: gather more information, and obviously the Cuban missile crisis is 803 00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:57,080 Speaker 2: the great success story of the short Kennedy presidency, eliminating 804 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:02,800 Speaker 2: the threat of nuclear armageddon and World War three because 805 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:07,759 Speaker 2: he had his own bearings and was not dependent on 806 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,560 Speaker 2: those who were so called experts, who in fact did 807 00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,160 Speaker 2: not have the big picture necessary to make the best decision. 808 00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,320 Speaker 1: Tell me about the power of ideas, though, and you 809 00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,600 Speaker 1: highlight this in your book, I mean the space program, 810 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,920 Speaker 1: the Peace Corps. John F. Kennedy was sort of dreaming 811 00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:28,080 Speaker 1: with the rhetoric, dreaming large and pulling the country into that. 812 00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:31,880 Speaker 1: Why is that so critical for a leader? And what 813 00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:33,360 Speaker 1: can we take from his example? 814 00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,000 Speaker 2: Well, there's always going to be big issues and either 815 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:37,960 Speaker 2: you're going to take them on and find ways to 816 00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,279 Speaker 2: move the public needle toward where it needs to be, 817 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:44,200 Speaker 2: as FDR did with isolationism. But Kennedy in particular that 818 00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,959 Speaker 2: first in order to address the need during the Cold 819 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:49,960 Speaker 2: War to get young people out into third world countries, 820 00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:52,719 Speaker 2: demonstrate that America is a great country wants to help 821 00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:56,399 Speaker 2: the world great pr a year later, the space race, 822 00:44:56,560 --> 00:45:00,480 Speaker 2: we're losing. Congress isn't providing the funds. He makes the 823 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,440 Speaker 2: speech at Rice Stadium this We're going to send a 824 00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:05,440 Speaker 2: man to the moon by the end of this decade 825 00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,040 Speaker 2: to show the world how smart and capable we are. 826 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,160 Speaker 2: And Congress stars a warding money. But most importantly is 827 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,279 Speaker 2: civil rights. Until Kennedy came along in the summer of 828 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:17,280 Speaker 2: nineteen sixty three, after Birmingham, people thought of civil rights 829 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,400 Speaker 2: it's just a political issue. Kenny said, No, it is 830 00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:24,239 Speaker 2: a moral issue. It is our moral responsibility. He then 831 00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:27,600 Speaker 2: submits a strong civil rights bill, which Lyndon Johnson ultimately 832 00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:30,920 Speaker 2: pushes through. But it's this vision and capacity to get 833 00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,960 Speaker 2: the public to embrace the vision through the power of 834 00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:37,600 Speaker 2: his words in eloquence, and Kennedy was as good as Fdr. 835 00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:39,200 Speaker 2: Lincoln and Reagan. 836 00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,040 Speaker 1: Wow, I'm glad that's a great segue to Reagan. I mean, 837 00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,279 Speaker 1: obviously we both saw Reagan. Grew up. I grew up 838 00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:49,520 Speaker 1: watching Reagan, met him a few times. The rhetoric, the 839 00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,960 Speaker 1: power of rhetoric with Reagan, and he had those lines 840 00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:55,759 Speaker 1: that he used again and again, it can be done. 841 00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:57,600 Speaker 1: He used to have the little plaque on the desk, 842 00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,400 Speaker 1: the Shining City on a Hill. Tell me about the 843 00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:06,240 Speaker 1: importance of a credo, of a stated articulation of belief. 844 00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:11,120 Speaker 1: The evil Empire, America's greatest days are still ahead of it. 845 00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:15,720 Speaker 1: It's morning in America. The power of those ideas articulated 846 00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,919 Speaker 1: in a statement again and again by a leader. 847 00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,520 Speaker 2: Credos are easy to remember. It can be done, Shining 848 00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,000 Speaker 2: City on a Hill. But the thing about Reagan, all 849 00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:31,080 Speaker 2: those credos were inspired by his inner sense of optimism. 850 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,400 Speaker 2: Not only was he optimistic, but this capacity to inspire 851 00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,279 Speaker 2: the country to be optimistic, which is why, after the 852 00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:40,960 Speaker 2: disastrous presidency of Jimmy Carter along Reagan runs in nineteen 853 00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,560 Speaker 2: ninety and he gets forty four out of fifty states, 854 00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:46,799 Speaker 2: and there's tons of Reagan Democrats because the country is 855 00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:50,400 Speaker 2: sharing his optimistic vision of a shining city on the 856 00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:52,440 Speaker 2: hill and thinks he can pull it off, and in 857 00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:53,120 Speaker 2: fact he does. 858 00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:56,960 Speaker 1: No his optimism and his spirit he did. He was 859 00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,440 Speaker 1: a believer. I mean, there was the religious belief underneath 860 00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,600 Speaker 1: it that sort of fueled and I think drove those 861 00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:06,120 Speaker 1: big initiatives, particularly taking on the Soviet Empire and bringing 862 00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:09,520 Speaker 1: it to its needs and marshaling with John Paul the 863 00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:12,239 Speaker 1: second with Maggie Thatcher. I mean, that was a spiritual 864 00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:14,640 Speaker 1: crusade as much as it was a political one. It 865 00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:17,239 Speaker 1: was an interesting balance and that's a hard thing to 866 00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:18,360 Speaker 1: pull off as a president. 867 00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:23,640 Speaker 2: Well, Reagan built those relationships that she just mentioned, and 868 00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,200 Speaker 2: obviously they were the key to his success, and I 869 00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:28,920 Speaker 2: think that's the key to the success of success of 870 00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,719 Speaker 2: our greatest presidence. They knew how to work with world leaders, 871 00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:34,279 Speaker 2: they knew how to work with congressional leaders. Reagan was 872 00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:38,360 Speaker 2: great about going across the aisle, he famously said, compromise 873 00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:41,400 Speaker 2: is necessary. I'd rather get eighty percent of what I 874 00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,480 Speaker 2: want than go over the cliff with my flag flying. 875 00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,560 Speaker 2: And too many people these days, saints, compromise is a 876 00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:49,600 Speaker 2: cuss word, and that if you don't, if you're thinking 877 00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:52,360 Speaker 2: in terms of compromise, then you're not a true believer. 878 00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:58,520 Speaker 2: And that's a perspective for making government unsuccessful and gridlocked. 879 00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:02,400 Speaker 1: Tell me about holding fast in opposition. There's a great 880 00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:07,360 Speaker 1: moment where Reagan is going to the Berlin Wall and 881 00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,200 Speaker 1: there's a line that was almost unsaid, and it's the 882 00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:14,160 Speaker 1: line we all remember. Mister Gorbigh tear down that wall. 883 00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:17,240 Speaker 1: That was not it was taken out of the speech 884 00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:18,200 Speaker 1: he wrote it back in. 885 00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:20,719 Speaker 2: That's one good thing about being president. I mean, I 886 00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:22,959 Speaker 2: gave the question a lot. I said, Hey, in this era, 887 00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:26,319 Speaker 2: presidents they have speech writers, so how much do they 888 00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,200 Speaker 2: really do? Will the presidents have the power of editing 889 00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:31,840 Speaker 2: and they get to approve the final draft. And Reagan 890 00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:35,359 Speaker 2: was insistent, no matter what his State Department official said 891 00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:38,600 Speaker 2: or anybody else, I'm sticking with that line. I want 892 00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:42,160 Speaker 2: to say that in mister Gorbachev's presence, and it's those 893 00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:45,160 Speaker 2: most important words he said in his entire presidency and 894 00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:48,799 Speaker 2: was the key turning point toward bringing into the co War. 895 00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:52,880 Speaker 1: So the lesson there is sometimes sticking by your guns 896 00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:53,520 Speaker 1: and your gut. 897 00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:58,000 Speaker 2: The people elected you to be president, say your words. 898 00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:01,359 Speaker 2: Don't rely on others if they are not what you 899 00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:03,960 Speaker 2: want to say. That is your power. You get to 900 00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:04,720 Speaker 2: pick the words. 901 00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:06,560 Speaker 1: Why do you keep doing this? 902 00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:09,080 Speaker 2: Because so much fun and because it's. 903 00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:12,000 Speaker 1: I mean, this is really it's more than a hobby. 904 00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:13,200 Speaker 1: This is an obsession for you. 905 00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:17,040 Speaker 2: Well, it's a passion. I tell people. My mission is 906 00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:20,960 Speaker 2: to spread a love of history throughout the Dallas area 907 00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:24,880 Speaker 2: where I live, but nationally through my podcast series Ross 908 00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:28,200 Speaker 2: Examining Cross Examining History. Through my podcast, I speak all 909 00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:31,280 Speaker 2: over the country. I'm a contributing comments for the Dallas 910 00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:34,440 Speaker 2: Boyne News, which has a high circulation. So I like 911 00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:37,200 Speaker 2: to spread the fact that there's so much we can 912 00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:40,120 Speaker 2: learn from history if people would just stop and think 913 00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:44,080 Speaker 2: about Yes, it can be applied today and it should 914 00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:44,760 Speaker 2: be okay. 915 00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:48,680 Speaker 1: There are a series of royal grande questions I ask 916 00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:53,240 Speaker 1: everybody who sits opposite me. So these are quick, quick questions, 917 00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:56,600 Speaker 1: quick answers. You're ready, You're okay to much? Yeah, okay, 918 00:49:56,719 --> 00:50:00,000 Speaker 1: brace yourself. Who's the person you most admire? Abraham Lincoln 919 00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:06,759 Speaker 1: is the person who most to tests Hitler. Okay, well 920 00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:09,560 Speaker 1: that wasn't easy when I hear that a lot. What 921 00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:11,000 Speaker 1: is your best feature? 922 00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:18,200 Speaker 2: I'm good at bringing people together in all kinds of groups, 923 00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:21,040 Speaker 2: and I enjoy bringing people together. 924 00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:21,880 Speaker 1: What do you fear? 925 00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:28,440 Speaker 2: I fear people not being open minded and being boxed 926 00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:33,280 Speaker 2: into ideas without the reflection that's needed to draw good conclusions. 927 00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:37,080 Speaker 1: Oh boy, is that I share that fear. I share 928 00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:41,319 Speaker 1: that fear. What do you know that others don't know? 929 00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:46,200 Speaker 2: I know how important relationship building is and what it 930 00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:51,160 Speaker 2: takes over time to bring to fruition that and the 931 00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:55,480 Speaker 2: bountiful results that come from having positive relationships. We live 932 00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:58,040 Speaker 2: in a world with all the social media and everybody 933 00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:01,040 Speaker 2: living on their phones and so forth, are not aggressive 934 00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:05,400 Speaker 2: about building relationships, and it causes loneliness and depression. And 935 00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:08,719 Speaker 2: I don't have any of that because I'm always in 936 00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:13,600 Speaker 2: a mode of engagement, engagement with new folks, but also 937 00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:16,400 Speaker 2: building on what I have with my longtime friends. 938 00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:18,439 Speaker 1: What's the best piece of advice you ever got? 939 00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:26,160 Speaker 2: Tell the truth, love one another, do unto others as 940 00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:28,920 Speaker 2: you do like them to do unto you. I mean, 941 00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:30,600 Speaker 2: it's all straight from the Bible. 942 00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:35,000 Speaker 1: What happens when this is over, when. 943 00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:39,520 Speaker 2: My life is over, well, I'll go to heaven and 944 00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:42,480 Speaker 2: feel like you know, you got a lot of funerals, 945 00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:44,279 Speaker 2: and you do, and I do. And you like it 946 00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:47,719 Speaker 2: when somebody says, when so and so got up there, 947 00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:50,400 Speaker 2: well done, good and faithful service. You gave it your best. 948 00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:55,920 Speaker 2: You fulfilled your potential, You had goals, and for the 949 00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:59,120 Speaker 2: most part you fulfilled. Yeah, you had setbacks, Yeah you sin, 950 00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:02,200 Speaker 2: Yeah you did some stupid things, but overall you made 951 00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:04,480 Speaker 2: a positive difference in the lives of many. 952 00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:07,840 Speaker 1: Talmadge Boston, thank you for the time, Thank you for 953 00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:11,399 Speaker 1: the book. How the Best did it? And you're the best? 954 00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:11,640 Speaker 1: Thank you? 955 00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:14,080 Speaker 2: Okay, pre great job, my pleasure. Thank you. 956 00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:18,319 Speaker 1: Revan Wow. Okay, here's the hall. Did you note the 957 00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:21,920 Speaker 1: string that ran through all those presidents we talked about. 958 00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:26,920 Speaker 1: They knew how to engage other leaders and build relationships 959 00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:29,160 Speaker 1: with him, whether they did it at a dinner table, 960 00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:31,880 Speaker 1: one on one like Jefferson, or with the power of 961 00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:35,560 Speaker 1: public rhetoric like Ronald Reagan. They knew how to win 962 00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:39,239 Speaker 1: people over and lead them in a new direction. And 963 00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:42,279 Speaker 1: I also, I guess I just didn't appreciate how the 964 00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:47,680 Speaker 1: president's personal liabilities, the things they lacked, shaped so many 965 00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:51,440 Speaker 1: approaches here, the personal dinners for Jefferson, the reliance on 966 00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:54,880 Speaker 1: technology for FDR because they didn't have the physical ability 967 00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:58,279 Speaker 1: to appear in person. What it tells me is this, 968 00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:03,000 Speaker 1: if the per is high enough and you are committed enough, 969 00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:08,000 Speaker 1: liabilities can be turned into assets, and assets that even 970 00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:13,360 Speaker 1: define your work for the next generation. Thanks to Talmage 971 00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:16,600 Speaker 1: Boston for his insights and those great stories, and I 972 00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:19,640 Speaker 1: hope you'll come back to Arroyo Grande soon. Why live 973 00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:22,680 Speaker 1: a dry, narrow, constricted life when if you fill it 974 00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:26,400 Speaker 1: with good things, it can flow into a broad, thriving 975 00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:30,920 Speaker 1: Arroyo Grande. I'm Raimed Arroyo. Make sure you subscribe and 976 00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:34,040 Speaker 1: like this episode. Thanks for diving in, and we'll see 977 00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:38,160 Speaker 1: you next time. By no Arroyo Grande is produced in 978 00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:42,880 Speaker 1: partnership with iHeart Podcasts and Divine Providence Studios, and it's 979 00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:46,759 Speaker 1: available at YouTube, the iHeartRadio app, or wherever you get 980 00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:47,680 Speaker 1: your podcasts.