1 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: From Mediators World News Headquarters in Bozeman, Montana. This is 2 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: Cal's Weekend Review, presented by Steel. Steel products are available 3 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: only at authorized dealers. For more, go to Steel Dealers 4 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: dot com. Now here's your host, Ryan cal callahan. 5 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to a very special episode of Cal's Weekend Review. 6 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 2: I had a chance to sit down this week with 7 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 2: Arkansas Representative Bruce Westerman to talk about an interesting new 8 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 2: bill that would be a game changer for habitat conservation. 9 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 2: If the name Westerman sounds familiar, there's a reason. Representative 10 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 2: Westerman is the chairman of the Natural Resources Committee for 11 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 2: the US House of Representatives. If you care about national 12 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 2: hunting and fishing policy, this is a group of lawmakers 13 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 2: you should be familiar with. The Natural Resources Committee handles 14 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 2: many of the bills that deal with outdoor recreation, habitat conservation, 15 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 2: and many of the other things that affect the critters 16 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 2: we love to hunt and the places they live. As 17 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 2: the chairman of the committee, Representative Westerman controls when they meet, 18 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,960 Speaker 2: how often they meet, and the bills they consider. One 19 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 2: of his priorities this year is a new bill dubbed 20 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 2: America's Wildlife Habitat Conservation Act. All that, Representative Westerman explain 21 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 2: the details, but here's the bottom line. This bill would 22 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 2: authorize three hundred million dollars every year to state governments 23 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 2: to allow them to better enact their wildlife action plans. 24 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 2: These plans are targeted at species under threat of being 25 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 2: listed as endangered, but the habitat work that would be 26 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 2: accomplished would benefit all wildlife. So, without further ado, here's 27 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 2: my conversation with Representative Bruce Westerman. All right, well, cal's 28 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 2: we can review. We are joined today by Bruce Westerman, 29 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 2: who represents Arkansas's fourth congressional district in the United States 30 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 2: House of Representatives, where he serves on the Committee on 31 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 2: Transportation and Infrastructure and as chairman of the Committee on 32 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 2: Natural Resources. Because we value your time, we're just going 33 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 2: to get right into it and we like to help 34 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 2: break down where we can how government works for our 35 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 2: listening audience here. So we'd like to just easy in 36 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 2: with Everybody's probably heard the phrase and now the bill's 37 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,519 Speaker 2: in committee. What the heck does that mean? 38 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 3: Well, it means the bill has been filed and its 39 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 3: first step that it's got to get through is to 40 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 3: get through committee, and I'll just file the bill called 41 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 3: the American Wildlife Habitat Conservation Act that will be assigned 42 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 3: to the Natural Resources Committee. So as chairman of that committee, 43 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:55,920 Speaker 3: I can almost guarantee you it's going to get a 44 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 3: hearing on the bill and we'll probably mark it up 45 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 3: and pass it. But that's it's the first step and 46 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 3: making a bill a law. You know, if you watch 47 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 3: Schoolhouse Rock when you're a kid, I'm just a bill 48 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 3: on Capitol Hill. The bill has to go through a committee, 49 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 3: then he needs to go through the House, needs to 50 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 3: go through the Senate, and then you may even have 51 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 3: a conference where you work out the differences between the 52 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 3: House and the Senate, and eventually it gets on the 53 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 3: president's death. Now that's the simple way that it happens. 54 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 3: Bills can also latch own and ride on other bills, 55 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 3: like the farm bill or some kind of an appropriations bill. 56 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 3: There's a lot of ways to get things signed into law. 57 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 3: But the purest, according to the rules of the House 58 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 3: and the Senate way to do it is to run 59 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 3: it through committee, have regular order on it, debate it 60 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 3: on the floor, pass it out of both chambers, and 61 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 3: then conference together and get it on the President's desk. 62 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 2: And what is like the most common thing that happens 63 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 2: when a bill's in committee, are you actively debating the 64 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 2: merits of the bill or what happens there? 65 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 3: Now, the first thing we'll do ryan is we'll have 66 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 3: a hearing, which means we will bring subject experts in 67 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 3: related to the content of the bill. And these maybe 68 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 3: people from the administration, it may be people from the 69 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:22,600 Speaker 3: private sector, maybe somebody from academia. The committee has the 70 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 3: authority to call in and invite whoever they want to 71 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 3: to testify on the bill. So we will have a 72 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 3: hearing and we'll talk about the merits of the bill, 73 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 3: that there's any problems with the bill, that members ask questions, 74 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 3: and then we take all of that into account. And 75 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 3: the next step is we would have a markup on 76 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:43,679 Speaker 3: the bill, which means we would actually have the bill 77 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 3: and committee we would offer amendments for it, debate those amendments, 78 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 3: vote on amendments, we would end up with the final 79 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 3: amended bill in committee, and then we would vote to 80 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,279 Speaker 3: pass that bill out of committee, at which time it 81 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 3: goes on the House calendar and it's ready to go 82 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 3: out on the floor. 83 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 2: Okay, So you are the chair of the House Natural 84 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 2: Resources Committee, So being as its natural resources, I would 85 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 2: assume you have like a hunting and angling background. 86 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm I've got a lot of background in hunting 87 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 3: and angling. When I was growing up, that's what uh, 88 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 3: that's what we did for fun, and it's what I 89 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:26,040 Speaker 3: still do for fun today. So growing up in Arkansas, 90 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 3: the natural state, I had ample opportunity to hunt a 91 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 3: little bit of everything. Uh, you know, mainly as a kid, 92 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 3: I would hunt squirrels and rabbits and quail and turkey 93 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 3: and deer, a little bit of duck hunting. Of course, 94 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 3: Arkansas has got some great duck hunting, not necessarily where 95 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 3: I live, but in the southeast part of the state, 96 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 3: in the district that I represent as probably the best 97 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 3: duck hunting in the maybe in the world. So we've 98 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 3: I've got that going. And then we've got all kinds 99 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 3: of lakes and streams and reservoirs. But you know, I 100 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 3: grew up fishing and farm ponds, just any place I 101 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:04,919 Speaker 3: could get a hook in the water. That's that's what 102 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 3: I did when I was a kid. 103 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 2: And then went on to well, I guess because hound 104 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 2: hunting is always a hot topic. And since you've already 105 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 2: opened up your hand and said that, you know, Clay Nukeome, 106 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 2: if you had to introduce somebody to hound hunting for 107 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 2: the first time, what would be your sales pitch? 108 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 3: I would probably just take them squirrel hunting with a 109 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 3: good squirrel dog. It's a great way to spend an afternoon. 110 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 3: It's relaxing, there's a lot of movement, you can talk. 111 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 3: You're waiting for the dogs to the trail and tree, 112 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 3: and then you you rush up to the tree and 113 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:47,039 Speaker 3: spot the squirrel and shoot the squirrel out, and it's 114 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 3: a It's a great opportunity to get to uh, spend 115 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 3: some time in the woods and fellowship with other people, 116 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 3: and we really have a great time. Also, we hunted 117 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:58,600 Speaker 3: deer with hounds when I was growing up, and still 118 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 3: do a little bit today. Some people may say there's 119 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:04,359 Speaker 3: not any sport in that, and I challenge them to 120 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 3: try to shoot a deer running across a clear cut 121 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 3: with a pack of hounds behind it. You got to 122 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 3: be a pretty good shot to make that happen. But also, 123 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 3: coon hunting is something I enjoyed doing growing up, and 124 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 3: still every once in a while I'll get a chance 125 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 3: to do that. I've got a friend that's got some 126 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 3: coon hounds. You know, when I was a kid, we 127 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 3: would even trap as well. The hides had a lot 128 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 3: more value than they're worth today. But also it helps 129 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 3: out in predator control to you know, help with your 130 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 3: other wildlife, especially turkeys and things that coons and possums 131 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 3: and other animals couties that you trap will be pretty 132 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 3: rough on your your rabbit and turkey populations if you 133 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 3: don't keep them under control. 134 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 2: That's fantastic. And then went to forestry school. 135 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, well I started off. I studied engineering and undergraduate 136 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 3: school at the University of Arkansas, and then after I've 137 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 3: been out of school for a while, I went to 138 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 3: Yale University and got a graduate degree in forestry. So 139 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 3: I'm kind of an oddball to be serving in Congress. 140 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 3: I'm the only licensed professional engineer and I'm the only 141 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 3: forester in the House, the only licensed forster in Congress. 142 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 3: I think sender Risch studied forestry and undergraduate but because 143 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 3: of that, I get a lot of policy coming my 144 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 3: way that deals with forestry and wildlife habitat and the committee. 145 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 3: If you look at the subcommittees of the full House 146 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 3: Natural Resources Committee. We've got a subcommittee on Water, Wildlife 147 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,959 Speaker 3: and Fisheries, which US Fish and Wildlife falls under that. 148 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 3: We've got a subcommittee on Federal land, so all the 149 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 3: Force Service, b ELM, National Park Service, all the federal 150 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 3: land agencies fall under the jurisdiction of our committee. And 151 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 3: when you talk about wildlife and habitat, it all comes 152 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 3: back to how you manage that habitat and take care 153 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:02,319 Speaker 3: of it. So I've got a real passion for us 154 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 3: to utilize the habitat that we've got in the vast 155 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 3: land that the public lands we've got in America could 156 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 3: provide so much more wildlife habitat than what they're doing 157 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 3: if we would just put the effort for to manage 158 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:16,079 Speaker 3: those lands. 159 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 2: So is that background where America's Wildlife Habitat Conservation Act 160 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 2: comes from. What was the impetus for getting this started? 161 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 3: Well, we're not getting the job done on the federal 162 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 3: lands with our federal land management agencies for a myriad 163 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 3: of reasons. For one thing, they just simply can't manage 164 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 3: the land like they need to. But if you look 165 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 3: at most states across the country, they have a state 166 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 3: Wildlife Action Plan and they do a great job of 167 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:50,319 Speaker 3: implementing these acting plans, but they're basically only doing it 168 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,679 Speaker 3: on state land and on some private land. So what 169 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:57,679 Speaker 3: the American Wildlife Habitat Conservation Act does is it will 170 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 3: empower state agencies here in Arkansas. So it would be 171 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 3: the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission and the Arkansas Forestry 172 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 3: Commission to go in and actually do management work on 173 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 3: the federal lands. You know, we've got about three million 174 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 3: acres of federal land in Arkansas, and if you just 175 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 3: managed a third of that the way it needs to 176 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 3: be managed for wildlife, we would be it would be huge. 177 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:24,440 Speaker 3: There would be people coming from all over to hunt 178 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 3: turkeys and deer and quail. There's no reason we can't 179 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 3: have natural populations of quail again. But we have to 180 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 3: get out and manage this land. But you know, the 181 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 3: vast amount of land in our state is held by 182 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 3: private landowners. So the American Wildlife Habitat Conservation Act would 183 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 3: also allow these state agencies to go in and do 184 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 3: management on private land. And you're going all the way 185 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 3: back to Teddy Roosevelt. When all these federal lands were 186 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 3: being established, he recognized how important it was that we 187 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 3: manage also on private land, and you've got a lot 188 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 3: of what are called non industrial private forest owners that 189 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 3: may have anywhere from twenty acres to even five hundred 190 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 3: or one thousand acres anywhere in between. That that what 191 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 3: they really want, that landforce for wildlife habitat, but they 192 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 3: don't have the resources or all the expertise to go 193 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:20,839 Speaker 3: in and manage it. So this program would allow these 194 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 3: state agencies to partner with landowners to be able to 195 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 3: manage their land as well. And it's got a provision 196 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 3: in it say, if the state agencies manage you on 197 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 3: federal land, and what we see across the country is 198 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 3: our federal lands are way over stocked with timber, too 199 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 3: many trees per acre, So we need to basically thin 200 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 3: these forests and then do control burns and it will 201 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 3: work magic on wildlife habitat when we do that. So 202 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 3: if the state agency does that down the Washington National 203 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 3: Forest here where I live, then the timber that they 204 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 3: thin out, they'll be able to sell that timber and 205 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 3: keep the proceeds to go do more or management work 206 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 3: on additional land. So it will only take some seed 207 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 3: money from the federal government to get these agencies up 208 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 3: the speed and get things moving. And when you look 209 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 3: at private land, say a landowner had eighty acres and 210 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 3: he wanted a better wildlife habitat on it, he could 211 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 3: call this state agency and say, look, I've got this land. 212 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 3: I don't know how to manage it, but I heard 213 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 3: you've got a program where you can come in and manage it. 214 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 3: And the state agency would do the same thing. They 215 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,559 Speaker 3: would look at it and say, you know, the prescription 216 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 3: you need is to then your timber, to introduce some 217 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 3: control burns, maybe put some food plots in and with 218 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,559 Speaker 3: the private individual, when they sold the timber, they would 219 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 3: just keep the proceeds that would cover the cost to 220 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 3: do the work, and then the landowner will get to 221 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 3: keep the remaining proceeds. Or if there wasn't enough timber 222 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:54,439 Speaker 3: on there to pay for the cost of the land, 223 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 3: then the landowner could pitch in to make up the 224 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,959 Speaker 3: difference to get the management work done. And the thing 225 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 3: about this is once you get this going, you can 226 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 3: come back ten years or so and harvest more timber 227 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 3: and do more management. So what would be perpetual in 228 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 3: a funding mechanism to create better wildlife habitat? And also 229 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 3: the states could just use the money to go out 230 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 3: and do management on land that's not necessarily going to 231 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:26,719 Speaker 3: produce any kind of revenue to keep funding the program. 232 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 3: We've got a lot of green tree reservoirs here in Arkansas, 233 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 3: and actually there needs to be some timber thinning done 234 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:35,679 Speaker 3: on those. But some of the things where you build 235 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 3: structures and levees, that's not necessarily going to generate revenue 236 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 3: to go back into the fund. But what it's really 237 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 3: doing is empowering state agencies to manage on federal land 238 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,680 Speaker 3: and private land to increase wildlife habitat. 239 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:55,079 Speaker 2: And I was guessing we were going to get to 240 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 2: the subject of burning, both because of your background and 241 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 2: the fact that you live in Arkansas, where the southeast 242 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 2: is incredibly effective at burning timber ground compared to the 243 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 2: west out here. So is that one of the issues 244 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 2: that you can point to when you say, like the 245 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 2: ineffective bittness of federal management. 246 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, burning is so good for wildlife 247 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 3: habitat and it's been proven over and over again. Now 248 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 3: the forest is going to burn, like we're seeing a 249 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 3: lot of Western forests that burn, but they're burning catastrophically, 250 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 3: destroying everything on the on the landscape, taking out all 251 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 3: the trees, all the underbrush, and sometimes these fires are 252 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 3: so hot they actually sterilize the soil where you can't 253 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 3: get new forest to grow back. I'll just I'll give 254 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 3: you an example here in Arkansas on the Washington Forest, 255 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 3: and this was done by the Forest Service. It's just 256 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 3: not being done at a large enough scale. But they 257 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 3: implemented a program many years ago to create habitat for 258 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 3: the red cockaded woodpecker, which is an endangered specie. And 259 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 3: you know, they went back and researched the records of 260 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 3: when the earliest European explorers came through this area, and 261 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 3: in their journals they wrote you could ride through the 262 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 3: forest at full gate on a horse. Well, the forests 263 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 3: are so overgrown now you'd have a hard time leading 264 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 3: a horse through some of these forests. And they also 265 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 3: know that this larger trees widely spaced where some can 266 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 3: get down to the forest for and cause new growth 267 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 3: to come up. That creates great wildlife habitat. So they 268 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 3: implemented this program and now they're trapping red cockatve woodpeckers 269 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 3: off of these sites to move them to other sites 270 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 3: to do the same kind of work, and what they 271 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 3: found was when they opened it up and did the 272 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 3: control burns, that there was a seed bank in the 273 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 3: toil that was probably over one hundred years old that 274 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 3: sprouted up. They had all kinds of new early citational 275 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 3: habitat that came up, species that all kinds of animals like. 276 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 3: So they saw an increase in plant biodiversity. They saw 277 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 3: the number of great cockade woodpeckers increase. I saw an 278 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 3: increase in songbirds, more wild turkey, more deer, more rabbits, 279 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 3: and more quail, which we're losing our quail population in 280 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 3: Arkansas as well as other parts of the country. 281 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 2: So you had a couple of points in there that 282 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 2: I think would be great because obviously you want to 283 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 2: talk about the classic question of how do we pay 284 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 2: for it? But then we also want to hit recovering 285 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 2: America's Wildlife Act as well, and I think that mention 286 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 2: of the red cockaded woodpecker would be a good way 287 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 2: to kind of talk about that legislation that is out 288 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 2: there and what some of the differences are, or if 289 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 2: you see your bill as something that could run in parallel, 290 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 2: or you know, how how you see both of these 291 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 2: bills working together or apart for that matter. 292 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:20,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, America's Wildlife Habitat Conservation Act is a different approach 293 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 3: than than the bill that's been floating around in Congress 294 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 3: called Recovering America's Wildlife Act or RAWA. And you know, 295 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 3: there's some problems I've got with RAWA. I like the 296 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 3: idea behind RAWA to do what we're doing with America's 297 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:40,880 Speaker 3: Wildlife Habitat Conservation Act, and that is to get more 298 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 3: state agencies involved in the management. But RAWA has a 299 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 3: huge pricetag to it. And you know, when you say 300 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 3: recover America's wildlife, I really don't know what that means. 301 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 3: I can tell you what how you recover wildlife as 302 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 3: you fix the habitat. Until we fix the habitat, we're 303 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 3: not going to be able to recover wildlife. We're not 304 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 3: going to be able to have more protections for endangered species. 305 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 3: It all comes back to habitat and the focus on 306 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 3: my bill is to really hone down to where the 307 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 3: rubber meets the road, and that's getting out and doing 308 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 3: the work on the habitat. Now RAWA has a mandatory 309 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 3: permanent spending that's not offset which it just can't move 310 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,479 Speaker 3: through this Congress, and I think it would have a 311 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 3: hard time moving through any Congress as a mandatory funding program, 312 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 3: and it's talking about one point three billion dollars a 313 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:49,199 Speaker 3: year going to the states without the real focus on 314 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:55,679 Speaker 3: habitat management like my bill focuses on. And RAWA doesn't 315 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:58,199 Speaker 3: have any other source of funding other than just a 316 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:02,160 Speaker 3: stream of money coming from the federal government. So both 317 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 3: of these bills are aimed at making sure we have 318 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 3: the right habitat for wildlife going forward. I just think 319 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 3: that the bill that we've got in committee right now 320 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 3: is one that's going to achieve that better. It's going 321 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,919 Speaker 3: to work better with getting the state agencies out on 322 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 3: the federal lands and I think getting the state agencies 323 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 3: working with the private landowners. So there's some good things 324 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 3: about RAWA and some things I agree with in principle. 325 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 3: I think it's just the approach in today's world of 326 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 3: how it's funded and what the real emphasis is on it. 327 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 3: You can't just throw money at a problem and fix that. 328 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 3: You've got to have a program that will actually get 329 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 3: work done on the ground, and that's what we're trying 330 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 3: to achieve with the American Wildlife Habitat Conservation Act. 331 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 2: Well, thank you for that. The You know, anytime you 332 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 2: see habitat in the title of a bill, I certainly 333 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 2: get excited and think folks are thinking in the right direction. 334 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 3: But another thing about the American modelife Habitat Conservation Act 335 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 3: is it would be a five year authorization. So it's 336 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 3: kind of like the farm bill that we've got now 337 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 3: that works pretty well, where Congress would have to come 338 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 3: back in five years and we could look at what's 339 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 3: working and what's not working. If things needed to bequeaked, 340 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:29,360 Speaker 3: you would do that every five years when you updated 341 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 3: the program. 342 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, especially when you talk habitat or for us, they're 343 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 2: constantly changing. If you spend enough time out there, you 344 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 2: always recognize that. So having some mobility to move and shake, 345 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 2: I think it could certainly be a benefit. Now, you 346 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 2: said the word authorization, and I think that is something 347 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 2: we should point out. In the Recovering America's Wildlife Act, 348 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:08,400 Speaker 2: you see the word appropriation a lot on the how 349 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 2: to fund this goes. Would you mind just giving our 350 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 2: listeners the difference between authorize and appropriate. 351 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's a distinction that we need to understand 352 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 3: on all kinds of federal legislation. But the Natural Resource 353 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 3: Committee is an authorizing committee, which means we authorize a 354 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:35,199 Speaker 3: program to exist. We also have an appropriations committee that 355 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 3: appropriates funding for programs. So the bill that I've got, 356 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 3: we would authorize it in the Resources Committee. We would 357 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 3: tell what the offsets were for the appropriation, and then 358 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 3: the Appropriations Committee would actually pass the funding for the bill. 359 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:58,399 Speaker 3: The rawal bill would be appropriating with the authorization. And 360 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,679 Speaker 3: that's what you call mandatories spending. And those are the 361 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:03,959 Speaker 3: programs that have gotten out of control and that are 362 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 3: running the debt up in our country. It's easy to 363 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 3: do that in a sense, but you pay for it 364 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 3: on the back end because you're not being responsible with 365 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,399 Speaker 3: taxpayer dollars and you're just saying, we're going to borrow 366 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 3: more money to do this program. And you know it's 367 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 3: a good program, but how are we really going to 368 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 3: pay for it when we've got such a you know, 369 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 3: thirty some trillion dollar debt already. So you know, mandatory 370 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:38,879 Speaker 3: spending makes up almost three fourths of all the spending 371 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 3: in the federal government. At least seventy percent of all 372 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:45,160 Speaker 3: spending is mandatory spending, and the money that gets appropriated 373 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 3: which is the military and what's called non defense discretionary 374 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 3: spending that gets appropriated every year. So the approach we're 375 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 3: taking with this bill is one that we would authorize 376 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 3: the program and authorize the spending levels, and then we 377 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,399 Speaker 3: would work with the Appropriations Committee to actually send the 378 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 3: funding out to the states. 379 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 2: So if I thought that was a great explanation, thank you. Now, 380 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 2: if on the RAWA Recovering America's Wildlife Act front that 381 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 2: appropriations is the big hurdle for that bill, what do 382 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 2: you see as the big hurdle for your Habitat bill. 383 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,440 Speaker 3: Well, it will still be appropriations, but we're talking about 384 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 3: three hundred and twenty million dollars a year. Plus we 385 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 3: know where we can all set that three hundred and 386 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 3: twenty million dollars a year where RAWA would be one 387 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:47,159 Speaker 3: point three billion dollars a year from until Congress changed 388 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,119 Speaker 3: that you wouldn't even have to go back and do 389 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 3: any kind of appropriations after the bill were passed, because 390 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 3: it would be a bill from Congress saying we're mandating 391 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 3: that this program be funded, and it doesn't say where 392 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 3: the money is coming from. It's just saying to the 393 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 3: administration to fund this program. And with my bill, with 394 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 3: an appropriation, you get to look at it every year 395 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 3: and see if it's being effective or not. You can 396 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 3: increase or decrease the appropriation accordingly. But with Robie, it 397 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 3: would be a one time deal where the bill was 398 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 3: passed and until Congress came back and said we're not 399 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 3: going to fund this anymore. It would be permanently funded 400 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 3: for as long as the United States government stays intact. 401 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 3: So you've got to do a lot more work and 402 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 3: really stay on top of these programs when you're actually 403 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 3: going through the appropriations process and when you just say, okay, States, 404 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 3: we're going to send you one point three billion dollars 405 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 3: a year into perpetuity and it's not going to be 406 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 3: offset and it's going to be there every year. So 407 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,239 Speaker 3: you know, I think it's more physically responsible to have 408 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 3: a program that gets reviewed every five years. The appropriation 409 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 3: has to go through the Appropriations committee every year. 410 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 2: And where you're at right now, what do you think 411 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 2: the pushback is going to be on the Habitat bill. 412 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 3: I really don't think there should be a pushback because 413 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 3: we've identified offsets for the appropriation. I think if there's 414 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,920 Speaker 3: a pushback, I think it'll just be politics with it's 415 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 3: been an election year. But I'm still planning to have 416 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,159 Speaker 3: a hearing on the bill, pass the bill out of committee, 417 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 3: and hopefully be able to move it through Congress and 418 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 3: we can start getting this work done on the ground 419 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 3: to actually help the habitat, which, as we already talked about, 420 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 3: is the key in getting more wildlife. Is it's like 421 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 3: the Baseball movie. If you build it, they will come. 422 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 3: If you create habitat, wildlife will come to that habitat. 423 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 2: That's right. Feel the dreams. You know, it's very opp 424 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 2: for upland bird hunters, white tail hunters, everybody. Yeah, I 425 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 2: can see it right now where you act on co sponsors. 426 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 3: I think we've got about twenty co sponsors right now 427 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 3: in the House, and we just filed the bill last week. 428 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 3: I think we'll probably pick up more co sponsors as 429 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,120 Speaker 3: we moved through the process. I've talked to a lot 430 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 3: of my colleagues on the other side of the aisle 431 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,439 Speaker 3: about co sponsoring it, and they've been reluctant to do 432 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 3: that so far. I think it's because they're pushing for 433 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 3: RAWA and they see that's a threat to RAWA, which 434 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 3: really if they can get RAWA passed with the funding. 435 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 3: At some point down the road, the two could probably 436 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,439 Speaker 3: work in conjunction. But you know, the goal is the 437 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 3: is the same overall, and that's the increase the amount 438 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 3: of wildlife in America. But to do that, it's going 439 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 3: to have to be focused on habitat. And we're also 440 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,880 Speaker 3: another component of the American Wildlife Habitat Conservation Act as 441 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 3: we would partner with tribes. There's a lot of tribal land, 442 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 3: and tribes do a pretty good job of managing their land. 443 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:16,160 Speaker 3: I was out in New Mexico with the Muscalara Apache 444 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 3: and they've got some of the most beautiful Ponderosa pine 445 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 3: habitat out there I've seen anywhere. And they've also got 446 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 3: monster elk that are on the reservation. And these tribes 447 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 3: know how to manage the land, and oftentimes their land 448 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 3: is destroyed because the BLM or the Forest Service is 449 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 3: not managing their land and it catches on fire and 450 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 3: gets over on the tribal lands. So we want to 451 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 3: give tribes that same authority to manage on the for 452 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 3: Service and on the BLM, as we're giving state agencies 453 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:50,400 Speaker 3: to the authority to do. 454 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:57,239 Speaker 2: And would the state or the tribal authority, would they 455 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:02,239 Speaker 2: be putting in for bids for that management. 456 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 3: Or Yeah, I think that's how it would work. So 457 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 3: you would actually see a growth in the private sector. 458 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,639 Speaker 3: You're going to need people on the ground doing the work. 459 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 3: And if you've got the state agency coordinating that, they're 460 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 3: going to have contacts with with loggers, with other people 461 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,919 Speaker 3: who do control burns and those sort of things, and 462 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 3: they'll have a pool of those resources, even consulting foresters 463 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 3: and consulting wildlife biologists that they would probably employ to 464 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 3: go out and do a lot of this work on 465 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,640 Speaker 3: the ground. So I think you would see a growth 466 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 3: in the private sector as well because of the people 467 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 3: that you would need to actually go out and do 468 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 3: the work. And the same thing with the tribes. And 469 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 3: some tribes have their own crews that do the work, 470 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 3: but we're talking about enough work here that it's going 471 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 3: to take more people and more equipment to actually get 472 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 3: it done. 473 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 2: When you talk about some of the you know, the 474 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 2: federal inability to manage what does that stem from? This 475 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 2: is obviously in your experience type of question. 476 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of it goes back to well meaning 477 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 3: laws that we put in place, like there's one called NIPA, 478 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 3: the National Environmental Policy Act, and it provides a tool 479 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 3: for groups to come in and sue the federal government 480 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 3: to stop management. And they've done this so much on 481 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 3: forest management out west, and it's almost impossible to do 482 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 3: this work because it gets tied up in court. And 483 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 3: there's even laws in Congress called the Equal Access to 484 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 3: Justice Act that will actually pay the legal fees of 485 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 3: groups that sue the federal government to stop these projects. 486 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 3: So we get mired down and these laws get weaponized. 487 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 3: Even the Endangered Species Act gets weaponized, and at the 488 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 3: end of the day, it's bad for the endangered specie 489 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 3: because the habitat is not improving. And you know, I 490 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 3: think some of the stuff. I know the laws were 491 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,239 Speaker 3: well meaning when they were passed, but I think there 492 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 3: are groups that have figured out how to make money 493 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 3: off of saying they're doing something that they're really doing 494 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 3: just the office they say they're protecting the environment, say 495 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 3: they're protecting the wildlands, and at the end of the day, 496 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 3: what they're doing is more harm than good. So the 497 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 3: state agencies would have be able to use existing what 498 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 3: are called categorical exclusions on the federal lands that are 499 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 3: already there in place to do the management for wildlife habitat, 500 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 3: and they would be able to work with their federal 501 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 3: partners to do that actual work on the ground and 502 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 3: hopefully insulate them from a lot of the lawsuits and 503 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 3: everything that stops the federal agencies from getting work done. 504 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 2: You bring up a good point there, the preservation versus 505 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 2: conservation conversation. Often it's an odd thing when when people 506 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 2: or groups request a level of preservation that actually doesn't 507 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 2: really exist in nature. Right, So you go back through 508 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 2: that seed bank, you can see how often those seeds 509 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 2: were generated, and especially if they're generated by fire. That 510 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 2: preservation mindset can be just as damaging to wildlife as 511 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 2: some of the things that I think some of these 512 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 2: groups are trying to prevent. 513 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 3: So your spot on, Ryan, and I've got a thing. 514 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:41,720 Speaker 3: I say, preservation is for pickles and conservations recruiters, And 515 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 3: what I mean by that is nature is a wild, dynamic, 516 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 3: changing organism. Whether you're looking at the landscape scale or 517 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 3: a stand of forest, it's not going to stay the same. 518 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 3: And the only way you can preserve that which means 519 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 3: to keep it in its current state. When you talk 520 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 3: about nature, you pick a cucumber and boil it in 521 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 3: vinegar and you preserve that cucumber is a pickle. But 522 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 3: you can't do that and have the wildlife habitat like 523 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 3: we want. Conservation is where you use what you've got 524 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 3: and you leave it in better shape for the future generations. 525 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 3: That's what forestry management is. It's all the way. It's 526 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 3: focused on the future and leaving the forest in a 527 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 3: better shape than when we found it. And when we 528 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 3: have healthy forest, we get better air quality, we would 529 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 3: get better water quality, which is also wonderful for fisheries, 530 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 3: we get better wildlife habitat, we get better places to recreate. 531 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 3: It's a winning situation when we take care and we're 532 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 3: good stewards of the land that we have. And this 533 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 3: idea that we can go out and lock it up, 534 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 3: put a fence around it and just look at it, 535 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 3: it doesn't work that way. The trees are going to 536 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 3: continue to grow, they're going to start competing for sunlight, 537 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 3: they're going to for moisture and nutrients, and they're going 538 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 3: to get weak and insects and disease will attack them, 539 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 3: and it just makes a tinder box for when the 540 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 3: fire comes through and we've seen that over and over 541 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 3: and over on our forest, especially in the wet There's 542 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 3: a much better way to do it that would be 543 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 3: good for all those things that I mentioned, And as 544 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 3: hunters and fishermen and conservationists and as environmentalists, we would 545 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 3: have a much better situation if we would just take 546 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 3: care of these federal lands and our private lands in 547 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 3: a way that they should be taken care of. I 548 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 3: don't think we realized how much more wildlife and game 549 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 3: we could have in this country if we were to 550 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 3: be if we were managing the lands that we have appropriately. 551 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 2: If the folks listening would like to get involved, is 552 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 2: there a way for us to do so now? Or 553 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 2: are we're going to wait until this bill hits committee 554 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:08,360 Speaker 2: and maybe folks can rate committee members in support of 555 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:09,719 Speaker 2: or comment on. 556 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 3: No, it's never too early to start advocating for good legislation. So, 557 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:19,359 Speaker 3: wherever you are across the country, if you appreciate good 558 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 3: wildlife habitat, I would encourage you to reach out to 559 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 3: your members of Congress, to your senators and encourage them 560 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:30,840 Speaker 3: to get behind this bill. And whether they're Democrat or Republican, 561 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 3: we need everybody on board to get this passed, So 562 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 3: you know, call your congressman, send them and email, or 563 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,400 Speaker 3: reach out to them on social media. All of that 564 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,840 Speaker 3: stuff matters, and there's no better time to get started 565 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:47,439 Speaker 3: than right now. 566 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 2: Speaking as a representative that's probably received an email or 567 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 2: a phone call or two. What's the most effective way 568 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,000 Speaker 2: to reach out to ire elected a fifth? 569 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 3: Well, you can you get on a browser and just 570 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,879 Speaker 3: you can top in where your state is and ask 571 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,320 Speaker 3: who your congressman is. And you know, it's easy to 572 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 3: find who your representative is. We all have websites, we 573 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 3: all have social media, and we all have phones that 574 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:21,600 Speaker 3: go to our office and all of that information it's 575 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 3: readily available on the internet. So there's no excuse for 576 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,400 Speaker 3: for not reaching out if there's something that you're passionate about, 577 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 3: and it does make a difference. If you're my constituents, 578 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,880 Speaker 3: you can reach me at Westerman dot house dot go. 579 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 3: That's our website, and we also have a Natural Resources 580 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 3: Committee website and I've got all the social media platforms 581 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:48,399 Speaker 3: out there as well. 582 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 2: Excellent. Well you heard it here, folks, Thank you so much. 583 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:59,360 Speaker 2: Representative Westerman. The bill that we were talking about today 584 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:04,440 Speaker 2: is America's Wildlife Habitat Conservation Act. Yeah, and you heard 585 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,840 Speaker 2: it here. If you want to get involved, right email, 586 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 2: stand up, wave your hand and get in touch with 587 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 2: your elected officials. Let them know that the great out 588 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:16,719 Speaker 2: of doors is important to you. That's where you like 589 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,440 Speaker 2: to spend your time and your money and bring the family. 590 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 2: So again, thank you very much, and we'll be keeping 591 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 2: everybody posted on the progress. 592 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,759 Speaker 3: Well, appreciate it, Ron and appreciate what you guys do. 593 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:35,919 Speaker 3: Very popular platform that you've got out there. And I'll 594 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 3: he here strangers talking about meat eaters all the time. 595 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:43,120 Speaker 3: So y'all are doing the Lord's work. And appreciate your 596 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,799 Speaker 3: dedication to conservation and to the things that a lot 597 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:47,360 Speaker 3: of us really enjoy. 598 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much. I got an old outfitter 599 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:54,239 Speaker 2: that I worked for whose wife is just a fanatical razorback, 600 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,800 Speaker 2: so I'm already getting brownie points from her for having 601 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:05,400 Speaker 2: you on Go Hog. Yeah, okay, yeah, thank you so 602 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:09,239 Speaker 2: much for listening. Very important for you to know here 603 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,000 Speaker 2: that Recovering America's Wildlife Act, which has been in the 604 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,440 Speaker 2: works for a really long time that we mentioned here 605 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:19,399 Speaker 2: during this segment many times, that is still active. It's 606 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,840 Speaker 2: still growing sponsors and if you want the opinion piece 607 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 2: side of this, it goes back to appropriation versus authorization. Now, 608 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 2: for me, as the wildlife, habitat access love and dude 609 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 2: that I am, I would rather have appropriation. That means 610 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 2: the dollars are put in the fund and they are 611 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:50,160 Speaker 2: meant to be spent on wildlife and habitat. As Representative 612 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,200 Speaker 2: Westerman points out, that may not be able to get done. 613 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 2: It's not superpallative for a lot of fiscally conservative folks 614 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:01,040 Speaker 2: because it's money that is in a fun ready to go. 615 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,400 Speaker 2: It has to be spent and that can raise some 616 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,239 Speaker 2: red flags with some folks. Whereas the authorization mode of 617 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:12,000 Speaker 2: transport for Representative Westerman's bill is you know, it's got 618 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 2: some good and bad things. You're gonna be able to 619 00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,839 Speaker 2: control where the money comes from, but you may have 620 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 2: to fight for that money each and every year. Got it, Yeah, 621 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 2: make up your own mind. That's why I'm here. Thank 622 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,520 Speaker 2: you so much for listening. Remember to write in to 623 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:29,240 Speaker 2: ask c A. L. That's ask Cal at the meaeater 624 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,080 Speaker 2: dot com and let me know what's going on in 625 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 2: your neck of the woods. If you're liking these interviews, 626 00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:35,680 Speaker 2: let us know who you want to interview next, we'll 627 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:45,000 Speaker 2: get on it. Thanks again, we'll talk to you next week.