WEBVTT - Introducing: Into the Madness, new from Trevor Aaronson 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.240 Hey, Alphabet boys, listeners, this is Trevor Aronson. I'm here 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:06.080 to tell you about a new series from me and 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:10.320 Western Sound, Into the Madness. It's a very different kind 0:00:10.320 --> 0:00:13.360 of series from me and well, a different kind of 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:18.680 series altogether, something very unique. Into the Madness is a 0:00:18.720 --> 0:00:21.800 seven part investigation of the twenty twenty two mass shooting 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:25.160 in Highland Park, Illinois, a devastating attack during a Fourth 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:29.480 of July parade in the Chicago suburbs. Prosecutors charged Bobby 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:33.400 Cremo with the mass shooting. Creamo was a SoundCloud artist 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:36.920 who went by the stage name Awake the Rapper, but 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.000 the mass shooting near Chicago was part of something insidious. 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:44.800 Cremo had created an elaborate game, complete with cryptic videos, 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:48.920 a book of numbers, and an eerie online presence designed 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:52.839 to see a conspiracy theory about the massacre. Into the 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:55.040 Madness is a deep dive into the events leading up 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:57.360 to the mass shooting and the story of a woman 0:00:57.400 --> 0:01:01.040 who became a confidant to Cremo and the final player 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:05.399 in his twisted game. Drawing from dozens of interviews in 0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:07.800 more than forty eight hours of recorded calls with Cremo, 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:10.640 I tell a story that will challenge everything you think 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:14.520 you know about mass shootings, conspiracy theories, and the fragile 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:18.600 boundary between reality and illusion. Into the Madness explores the 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:23.319 rise of nihilistic extremism, the role of technology and fostering extremism, 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:27.840 and America's collective dissent into conspiracy thinking. You're about to 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:30.720 hear the first chapter of this series. To listen to 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:33.440 the full series, search for Into the Madness in the 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:37.640 Audible app or follow me Trevor Aronson on the Audible app. 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:39.800 You can start listening today when you sign up for 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:49.400 a free thirty day trial. Here's chapter one. A warning, 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:53.480 this series contains graphic language and descriptions of violence and death. 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:56.840 It also contains recordings of a man accused of committing 0:01:56.840 --> 0:02:07.760 mass murder. We advise listener discretion among researchers. A violent 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:11.440 extremist A theory about a new type of threat is emerging. 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:16.720 Doomers extremely online young men who have embraced a bleak, 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:21.600 nihilistic outlook. They don't kill for a cause. The theory 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:26.520 suggests they don't kill to advance an ideology. They kill 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:30.800 because they believe and nothing at all. This idea is 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:33.760 reflected in an online video created by a suburban Chicago 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:38.040 man named Robert Krema the Third, or Bobby as he's known. 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:41.080 Where am I going? 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:45.480 I don't know. I don't care. There is no past 0:02:45.560 --> 0:02:50.040 or future, just the now. I need to leave now. 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:54.040 I need to just do it. It is my destiny. 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:58.000 Everything has led up to this. Nothing can stop me, 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:01.720 not even myself. Is there such thing as free will? 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:08.200 Or has this been planned out like a cosmic recipe? 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:13.560 After posting this video, Bobby was arrested for committing a 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:17.120 mass shooting during a Fourth of July parade in Highland Park, Illinois, 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:20.080 which left seven people dead and forty eight others injured. 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:24.800 Police found surveillance footage showing Bobby dressed as a woman 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:28.600 earbuds in walking to and from the rooftop where the 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:32.480 shots were fired, and on the sidewalk they found a weapon. 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:38.880 It discarded AR fifteen style rifle registered to Bobby. After 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:42.120 his arrest, prosecutors announced that Bobby had confessed. 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:46.720 He was questioned in the Highland Park Police department. He 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:51.360 was read his miranda, warnings, offered attorneys, etc. He went 0:03:51.400 --> 0:03:55.200 into details about what he had done. He admitted to 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:56.040 what he had done. 0:03:56.880 --> 0:03:59.920 The video Bobby posted before the shooting seemed to suggest 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:02.320 that he had been signaling about his plans all along. 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:06.600 I need to just do it, Bobby said. Nothing can 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:10.640 stop me, not even myself. But the video is more 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:13.880 than a cryptic prelude to the shooting. It acts as 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:18.560 a trailer, an introduction to something bigger. Bobby posted a 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:21.359 series of videos online, each one part of a dark, 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:24.880 twisted game, a puzzle he created for anyone willing to 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:28.520 play along. Bobby didn't carry out the Highland Park mass 0:04:28.520 --> 0:04:33.200 shooting for political reasons. He wasn't driven by ideology. His 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:37.520 motive was simpler. He did it as part of a game. 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:44.320 Bobby Kremo appears to be proof of the Doomer theory. 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:48.120 But here's the most unsettling part the game Bobby created. 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:51.080 It didn't end with the shooting. 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:56.760 Okay, in yougording none? 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:57.479 No, this is real. 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:01.760 This holy was a false slight, void by the people 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:03.880 who hide behind the FBI. 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:08.479 The witnesses are actors. The interview, even from his jail 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:12.400 cell as he waits trial, He's still pulling the strings, 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:16.840 still playing the role of game master with a player 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:18.080 on the outside. 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:21.120 The suspect in the Highland Park parade. Massacre has kept 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:24.680 his phone privileges despite some concerning behavior. The Chicago Sun 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:27.520 Times is reporting that a woman recorded a phone call 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:31.000 with the suspect, and Robert Kremo claimed that the shooting 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:34.960 was quote false flag and that the FBI orchestrated it. 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:38.120 He also names two alleged FBI agents. 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:41.479 And Bobby's reality warping game isn't over. 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:44.120 It's not so much just like a bunch of puzzle 0:05:44.120 --> 0:05:48.000 pieces thrown together. There's meaning behind it. 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:51.200 This is the story of a new kind of threat, 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:55.200 a new kind of killer, not one driven by any 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:59.279 sort of traditional ideology, but by a performative need for 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:04.720 an audience, like an Internet troll brought to life as 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:11.680 a mass shooter. I'm Trevor Aronson from Western Sound. This 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:20.880 is Into the Madness an audible original Chapter one. The 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:23.240 journalist and the murderer's friend. 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:28.599 So okay, So none of my friends were really into 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:32.000 like the LOFI or the SoundCloud rap at that time, 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:36.479 but I was. And I was the huge dork for 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:39.680 being into SoundCloud rap. They all made fun of me 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:42.880 for it, So I was really surprised to find out 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:46.919 that they were going to have a SoundCloud rapper come through. 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:48.720 I was really excited. Though. 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:53.200 This is Jamie, or, as she prefers, James, her nickname. 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:56.960 You'll hear her refer to by both names, Jamie or James. 0:06:58.000 --> 0:06:59.960 She first meets Bobby Kremo in a club in Indiana 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:03.960 in November twenty sixteen, when the hip hop subgenre known 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:08.520 as SoundCloud rap is beginning to reshape American music. The 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:12.480 music streaming platform SoundCloud disrupted the industry by allowing independent 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:15.320 artists to cultivate their own followings, cutting out the record 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:18.280 label middleman, and pushing the boundaries of what hip hop 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:22.880 can be. With its emo, grungesthetic SoundCloud rap stood apart 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:26.200 from the brash, chest beating bravado of more commercial hip hop. 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:30.360 Its lyrics often romanticize Xanax and suicide, set against down 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:33.200 tempo beats that are purposely distorted and degraded, as if 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:35.720 the songs are playing from an old, worn out cassette. 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:38.880 Jamie was surprised to learn that a SoundCloud rapper from 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:42.320 Chicago was coming to a club in her small Indiana town. 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:46.440 And Bobby came in and introduced himself to the owner, 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:49.600 and I was standing up front talking to all of them, 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:52.440 and he introduced himself to me, and he's got like 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:58.320 this languid type of like it's almost like velvety, quiet 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:02.360 voice all the time. So he introduced himself to me, 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:04.640 and at that time, I remember I'm looking like a 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:08.240 kid with like a backwards cap, and he was just like, hey, 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:10.160 what's up. I'm Bobby, and I was. 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:14.200 Like, hey, just sixteen years old. Then, Bobby only had 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:17.560 two tattoos, a small cross on his finger and the 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:20.320 eye of Horace on his arm. Most of the famous 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:23.480 SoundCloud rappers had tattoos on their faces, necks, and hands, 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:27.440 a trademark look for SoundCloud rap, but Bobby at the 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:31.400 time didn't have much ink. So when Bobby introduced himself 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:34.640 to Jamie, she never imagined this was a SoundCloud rapper 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:37.679 from Chicago. He just didn't look the part. 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:41.360 He didn't say Hi, I'm awake the rapper. He just 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:43.800 said hey, what's up, I'm Bobby until it was time 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:48.240 for him to go on, and then I was like, oh, so, okay, 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:50.439 so this probably is gonna suck. This is going to 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:54.480 be a horrible show because it's like this quiet little kid, like, 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:57.640 what what SoundCloud rapping is? He going to do when 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:00.560 he talks like this and he's so self spoke, canna apply. 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:07.680 But he was really good. It was really good. I 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:10.160 wish I had video of it to show you. I wish, 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:10.839 but I don't. 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:16.199 So I stop for a second and think to myself, 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:20.800 and so need you or anything else? I will mortal 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:24.880 in these pages that discontinue. I'm an issue why he 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:28.480 made in some swing patient and Brent away the sleepways 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:30.760 so much or not enough at all. 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:32.840 They talked more after the show Drugs. 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:36.800 It's just he wasn't trying to like dominate the room. 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:40.400 He wasn't interested in like chatting about a bunch of bullshit, 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:43.959 which I'm not good at small talk. I don't care. 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:47.000 He wasn't on his phone, he wasn't taking a bunch 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:49.720 of selfies. I'm not interested in that either. Like he 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:52.679 was very in the moment and watching everybody, and that's 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:57.760 what I tend to do. So we were very content 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:02.360 to be off to the side, just kind of having 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:08.840 a quiet conversation about like nothing. But I immediately felt 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:14.040 very connected to him and like comfortable with him, Like 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:17.440 I just I just genuinely liked him. I really liked him. 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:21.840 Something about Bobby drew Jamie in. She felt she understood 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:26.120 him even from that one brief encounter. Back then, Jamie 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:28.360 was a nursing school. She didn't have much time for 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:31.480 friendships and relationships, but she and Bobby kept in touch 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:32.400 off and on. 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:35.600 Was just Snapchat and Instagram that I followed him on, 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:40.440 but he tends to disappear from the Internet from time 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:43.120 to time completely. He would just rip everything down and 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:47.400 delete everything, and I tend to do the same. 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:51.040 Thing over the next few years. Through their sporadic exchanges 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:55.480 amid Bobby's repeated houdiniacs on social media, Jamie catches fleeting 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:59.560 glimpses of Bobby. As he changes, Bobby gets more and 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:03.160 more tauch hues, he begins to resemble the other SoundCloud artists, 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:06.760 the number forty seven etched into his right temple, a 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:09.880 tally mark beneath his right eye, and the word awake 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:13.880 scripts it elegantly above the other coiled around his neck, 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:17.440 a thorny rose stem across his knuckles, and black ink 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:26.320 f U c K l O VE fuck love. Other 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:29.160 than meeting at that club, the relationship between Bobby and 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:34.239 Jamie exists entirely online. It's been months since they'd communicated, 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:39.400 and then comes July fourth, twenty twenty two, the annual 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:43.200 parade in downtown Highland Park, Illinois. Hundreds of people line 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:47.199 the streets, some sitting in folding chairs. A marching band plays, 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:52.120 and floats promote local businesses and politicians. What you're about 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:59.040 to hear from that morning is disturbing. At ten fourteen am, 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:09.640 the gunshots begin in first most assume it's fireworks, that 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:23.200 what happened harmless. Then the crowd erupts in panic. On 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:26.720 July fourth, twenty twenty two, Gamie's at home nursing a 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:29.959 bird with a broken wing and looking through videos on YouTube. 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:34.760 I was trying to find soothing bird music for an 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:38.199 angry bird. But then I saw that there was this 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:41.400 live on because there was this active shooting in you know, 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:44.600 Highland Park, Chicago, which I have other friends that live 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:46.920 in that area and not just Bobby. So I was like, 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:49.200 oh my god. So I turned it on and just 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:52.839 started kind of following it throughout the day, from pretty 0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:56.520 much the time that they went live on the news 0:12:57.120 --> 0:12:59.520 until he was arrested. So I had no idea it 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:02.040 was Bobby. I was just following it because I was 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:05.720 home well the ten search for the gunman lasted for hours, 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:08.720 of course, until we finally heard police caught the suspect 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:11.840 in Lake Forest near Wesley and US Highway forty one. 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:15.320 Here's a map theory. It wasn't until they showed the 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:17.959 picture of him sitting in the back of the cop car, 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:20.800 because like they showed the live of him being arrested. 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:25.680 I watched all of that unfold. But then I saw 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:27.200 the picture of him in the back of the cop car, 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:32.040 and it was the eyes, like he his eyes are 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:37.720 very unforgettable. He's got they're almost they're sad. Even when 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:41.720 he's happy, he's just they're like puppy dog eyes all 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:45.679 the time kind of they're very unforgettable, very memorable. So 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:48.679 there's a picture of him that was posted and he's 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:50.960 sitting in the back of a cop car and he's 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:53.320 looking up at an officer. And that was when it 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:56.160 kind of hit me that, like, Okay, I know him, 0:13:56.600 --> 0:14:00.560 I do know him, and he did not, like he 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:04.080 didn't look right in the face to me, And I 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:05.719 was like, this has to be like some kind of 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:08.280 a psychotic break or something like, there's no way that 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:11.600 this person that I met and talked to has done 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:12.640 these things that they're saying. 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:24.720 Fourth of July is great, love it, but it gets 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:27.680 old sitting like trying to get your seat because people 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:29.800 go out like a day before and put their chair 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:31.280 down in all of this. 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:34.600 This is Rachel Walstein, a longtime resident of Highland Park, Illinois. 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:38.080 She's talking about the city's popular Fourth of July parade. She, 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:40.160 her mom, and one of her kids decided to skip 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:44.000 the crowd at the parade instead get breakfast nearby in 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:45.080 downtown Highland Park. 0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:48.600 As soon as we got out of the car, I 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:53.560 heard fireworks, like really loud, and we saw everybody just 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:59.560 running and strollers turned over and absolute chaos. And then 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:03.240 we went to a coffee shop in Highwood, which is 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:07.040 the next town over, and I mean we understood then 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:11.240 when had happened, and they just tried to wrap our 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:16.520 minds around it. I mean, it was like it was 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:21.680 crazy because Highland Park, first of all, I've always felt 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:26.920 incredibly safe here and just that you know, something like 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:29.880 that could happen in our town and on the Fourth 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:33.760 of July, and it just it didn't make any sense 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:40.800 until people started calling me and texting. 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:44.840 Me saying it's the Where's Waldo guy? 0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:50.680 The Where's Waldo guy? That's Bobby Cremo. After the twenty 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:53.200 twenty election, Rachel had been active in protest in the 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:56.880 Highland Park area against Donald Trump's Stopped the Steal movement, 0:15:57.160 --> 0:15:59.160 which promoted to lie that Trump had been cheated out 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:05.560 of the presidential line. This is a video Rachel recorder 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:08.520 during one of the counter protests. Across the street. In 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:12.720 the middle of the crowd waving Trump flags stands Bobby Cremo. 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:16.800 He's dressed in black jeans, black converts, round glasses, and 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:20.160 a red striped shirt with a stocking cap, looking like 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:24.160 where is Waldo? But instead of participating in the protest, 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:29.480 he's just standing there looking blankly holding a can of 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:30.000 red bull. 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:36.040 So I started diving into his background because I knew 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:39.600 what I knew about these Stopped the Steel rallies and 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:44.800 Hyland Park is a third Jewish We have more juice 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:50.360 per capita than New York. And I had started to 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:55.320 see some things being posted online, and then also people 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:59.040 were sending me things saying that you know, he had 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:03.560 this discord channel. I'll calleds and take a look at 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:06.400 these posts we grabbed. 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:10.680 After the shooting Bobby Krimo left behind a massive digital footprint, 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:14.639 dozens of videos, multiple Twitter accounts, messages on discord servers 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:17.480 and online forums, and a whole discography of his music. 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:22.119 As Awake the Rapper, Rachel starts sifting through Bobby's materials, 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:24.640 which leads her to believe that Bobby is a far 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:28.560 right Trump supporter and an anti Semite. He posted offensive 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:32.240 statements about Blacks, Asians, and Jews on an obscure website, 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:35.560 and his videos appear to reference Christian nationalism and right 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:39.480 wing political movements. Among the videos Rachel finds is one 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:42.640 of Bobby wearing black jeans, a black hoodie, and red 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:46.280 and white high tops, painting the words God's Not Dead 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:49.399 on the side of his house. It's a reference to 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:53.320 the low budget Christian propaganda film starring Kevin Sorbo, the 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:55.520 actor best known for his role as Hercules in the 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:59.280 nineties TV series. The photos and videos of Bobby at 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:02.080 Stop This Deal, and another picture of him draped in 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:05.320 a Trump flag lead Rachel and much of the news 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:09.160 media to assume that Bobby had been radicalized by Trump's rhetoric, 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:12.440 that this is an act of far right political violence. 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:17.320 Bobby had named a discord Channel SS, and he also 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:20.679 had those two letters tattooed on his hand. Rachel assumed 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:24.679 that Bobby's SS is a Nazi reference, but much of 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:28.520 Bobby's online in real world presence is tailored to create 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:31.600 these kinds of illusions. At first glance, it seems to 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:36.159 confirm whatever narrative you expected, but on closer inspection it 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:40.480 raises more questions. The SS on Bobby's hand could have 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:45.600 been for Nazi stormtroopers. Rachel's conclusion isn't outlandish under the circumstances, 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:50.040 but it isn't accurate for Bobby SS stands for Sleepy 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:54.719 squad rap Collective yet formed he attended Stop the steal rallies, 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:58.159 so he must have been a Trump supporter, but he 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:01.880 was dressed as Where's Waldo? Was he really a Trump 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:06.280 supporter or was it all some form of performance an 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:10.960 elaborate troll. The reason it's easy to assume Bobby Cremo 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:14.160 is ideological is that he had borrowed images and symbols 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:19.480 from various sources religious texts, political movements, video games, movies, 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:23.800 altering them slightly to create a branded, but ultimately superficial 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:27.879 identity for himself. The videos Bobby left behind on the Internet, 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:30.960 borrowed heavily from other hip hop artists and online culture 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:35.280 more broadly, filled with references to memes, video games, internet jokes, 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:39.000 that sort of thing. Some of the videos are just 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:48.840 music videos for a wake the rapper, like this Onegad Bobby, 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:51.560 his hair dyed red and pulled in the pigtails, is 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:54.280 wearing welding goggles and what appears to be a cheap, 0:19:54.640 --> 0:19:59.000 oversized astronaut Halloween costume. He's dancing and walking through a 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:04.840 deli in Convenienced or his father once owned in Highland Park, Illinois. 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:05.600 This smell of you. 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:11.120 Running out in Time's. 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:17.359 Other videos are intentionally cryptic. In this video, Bobby stands 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:20.119 just inches from the camera. All you can see is 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:23.000 his face from the nose up, framed by his tattoos. 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:26.920 He's staring intently at something off camera, the glow of 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:30.159 a screen reflecting in his eyes. In the background, you 0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:32.959 can hear a track from Mike Wallace's nineteen fifty eight 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:37.120 interview with Brave New World author Aldus Huxley. Right off 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:39.000 the bat, let me ask you this as you see it, 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:44.240 Who and what are the enemies of freedom here in 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:48.040 the United states in another video, which the news media 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:50.760 play up to dramatic effect, Fallow in the shooting, Ladies 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:57.919 and gentlemen, welcome you. Bobby stands in what seems to 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:01.679 be a classroom cladden, a long sleeved black T shirt 0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:04.800 emblazoned with a large, bright yellow smiley. 0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:07.800 Face, your eyes on my mind and cutey with the 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:13.800 fast I wanna makeumon. I'm running at its arm shotty 0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:15.720 his good class, smoke and show. 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:21.520 Then about halfway through the video, Bobby, seated at school desk, 0:21:21.960 --> 0:21:25.480 reaches into his backpack. The screen goes black and the 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:34.040 music turns ominous. Bobby reappears, his head encased in a 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:36.960 black helmet fitted with a GoPro camera. He wears a 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:39.919 tactical vest, holding an Ammo cartridge for an AR fifteen 0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:44.320 style rifle. He lets bullets tumble from his hand onto 0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:49.199 the classroom floor. Although no gun is ever seen, the 0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:54.200 intent is unmistakable. A grim visual commentary on school shootings, 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:57.040 but in the aftermath of the Highland Park Parade shooting, 0:21:57.440 --> 0:22:01.359 this portrayal took on an ominous and unsettling sognificance, as 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:04.639 if he were role playing his future crime. Viewed in 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:07.639 the aftermath of the Highland Parks shooting. Bobby's videos and 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:10.840 images seem to suggest he's planning the attack and hinting 0:22:10.840 --> 0:22:14.159 at it for months, but it's hard to say if 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:18.320 that's truly what they communicate. Seen in isolation, the messages 0:22:18.440 --> 0:22:22.120 aren't so clear. After mass shootings and other tragedies. There's 0:22:22.119 --> 0:22:24.760 a tendency to search for meaning to make sense of 0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:28.399 what happened, but in that search it's easy to confuse 0:22:28.480 --> 0:22:34.880 noise for signal. A few years after Bobby meets Jamie 0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:37.520 in Indiana, he starts to cultivate a life in the 0:22:37.600 --> 0:22:41.119 darker corners of the Internet, where racist and fascist commentary 0:22:41.119 --> 0:22:45.680 often flourishes, including forums where users share extremely violent videos 0:22:46.000 --> 0:22:50.639 and then make fun of other suffering. However, Bobby's writings 0:22:50.640 --> 0:22:55.639 in these forums aren't truly ideological. He's ironic and nihilistic, 0:22:56.200 --> 0:23:00.720 not serious. That's the culture of these forums. Everything's a 0:23:00.800 --> 0:23:05.000 joke or fodder patrolling, even a gruesome death captured on video. 0:23:06.800 --> 0:23:10.679 Extremism researchers believe this kind of radical nihilism, a philosophy 0:23:10.680 --> 0:23:13.359 that no information can be trusted and nothing is what 0:23:13.400 --> 0:23:18.679 it seems, has the potential to transform into violence just 0:23:18.720 --> 0:23:21.560 as Islamus extremists in the West became radicalized by watching 0:23:21.560 --> 0:23:24.840 propaganda for al Qaeda or the Islamic State. The theory 0:23:24.880 --> 0:23:28.800 goes the so called dumers may become radicalized by the 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:33.040 modern Internet, which left algorithms can become a personal fire 0:23:33.040 --> 0:23:38.600 hose of conspiracy theories and misinformation. The Dumer idea suggests 0:23:38.680 --> 0:23:41.880 a total lack of belief can be just as radicalizing 0:23:42.320 --> 0:23:57.080 as a dogmatic belief. After the Fourth of July mass shooting, 0:23:57.280 --> 0:23:59.760 the assailant drops the rifle on a sidewalk in Highland 0:23:59.760 --> 0:24:03.600 Park before fleeing the area. The rifle traces back to 0:24:03.680 --> 0:24:07.600 Bobby Cremo. Several hours later, police pull over Bobby while 0:24:07.600 --> 0:24:10.640 he's driving his mother's silver Honda Fit on a road 0:24:10.760 --> 0:24:14.720 just outside Highland Park. Here's what reportedly happens during those 0:24:14.760 --> 0:24:18.639 several hours. Bobby, dressed as a woman, drives to his 0:24:18.720 --> 0:24:22.040 dad's house. He changes it to men's clothing. From there, 0:24:22.240 --> 0:24:26.000 he heads to Northbrook, another Chicago suburb, where he apparently 0:24:26.119 --> 0:24:30.040 stops for a drink of water. Bobby continues on to Wisconsin, where, 0:24:30.440 --> 0:24:33.320 just outside Madison, he buries his phone in the parking 0:24:33.320 --> 0:24:36.520 lot of an auto body shop. Then Bobby returns to 0:24:36.520 --> 0:24:41.280 the Chicago area, where he's arrested. Police say Bobby considered 0:24:41.760 --> 0:24:45.200 but abandoned a plan to attack a second parade in Wisconsin. 0:24:46.119 --> 0:24:51.840 He h had another rifle in the car. Bobby's action 0:24:51.920 --> 0:24:54.960 suggests some sort of panic, a plan that didn't work out, 0:24:55.160 --> 0:24:57.400 or maybe there wasn't much of a plan at all. 0:24:58.200 --> 0:25:00.720 Back in Indiana, Jamie's watching the man hunh play out live. 0:25:01.520 --> 0:25:03.520 She's shocked to learn that her distant friend might have 0:25:03.600 --> 0:25:04.640 committed the mass shooting. 0:25:05.119 --> 0:25:07.040 At first, I thought, Okay, it's got to be like 0:25:07.040 --> 0:25:10.280 a mental health thing. It's got to be some kind 0:25:10.320 --> 0:25:15.400 of undetected, undiagnosed, untreated, ignored mental health kind of crisis thing. 0:25:16.040 --> 0:25:17.800 That has to be what's happening here? That was my 0:25:17.880 --> 0:25:18.440 first thought. 0:25:19.160 --> 0:25:22.520 Just like Rachel Walkstein, Jamie starts examining as much of 0:25:22.560 --> 0:25:26.000 Bobby's digital footprint as she can, But Jamie comes to 0:25:26.080 --> 0:25:28.399 a much different conclusion than Rachel and the media do. 0:25:29.560 --> 0:25:34.199 She finds the videos strange. She starts to wonder is 0:25:34.240 --> 0:25:38.560 Bobby trying to send a message. Inconsistent and contradictory news 0:25:38.560 --> 0:25:41.440 reports from the crime scene, which are not uncommon following 0:25:41.520 --> 0:25:47.199 violent chaotic events, only fuel Jamie's suspicions. It's not that 0:25:47.280 --> 0:25:50.320 Jamie thinks Bobby wasn't there at the crime scene. He 0:25:50.400 --> 0:25:53.280 clearly was. The surveillance video of Bobby dressed as a 0:25:53.320 --> 0:25:56.680 woman and his rifle left on the sidewalk are indisputable 0:25:56.680 --> 0:25:59.760 pieces of evidence. But Jamie thinks the real story might 0:25:59.800 --> 0:26:02.040 be more more complicated than the one told in the 0:26:02.080 --> 0:26:06.480