1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,239 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. 3 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:17,919 Speaker 1: Wilson and I'm Holly Frye. This is part two of 4 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:22,080 Speaker 1: our episode on Dorothy Crowfoot Hodgkin. Where we left off 5 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: in part one, her last name was still Crowfoot. She 6 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 1: had just earned a first class degree in chemistry from Oxford. 7 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: If you have not heard part one, jumping in with 8 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: this one means you will be missing a lot of 9 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,639 Speaker 1: the formative experiences in her youth that led to her 10 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: wanting to study crystals and to becoming part of the 11 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,239 Speaker 1: field of X ray crystallography, which was still in its 12 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: infancy and really shaped her worldview. As we talked about 13 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: in Part one, X ray crystallography was a field developed 14 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: in the nineteen teens. Max Van Laue, William Henry Bragg, 15 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: and his son William Laura its Bragg all earned Nobel 16 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:06,040 Speaker 1: Prizes for their work using X rays to study crystals. 17 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: Those prizes were awarded in nineteen fourteen. In nineteen fifteen, 18 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: and William Henry Bragg's Christmas lectures at the Royal Institution 19 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: that introduced the idea of X ray crystallography to a 20 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: more general audience took place in nineteen twenty three. These were, 21 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,960 Speaker 1: of course, not the only people working in the field. 22 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: The point was that this field was established in the 23 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 1: nineteen teens and twenties, and Dorothy Crowfoot graduated from Oxford 24 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 1: at nineteen thirty two. In such a new field, opportunities 25 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: for advanced education were kind of limited. This was especially 26 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:46,039 Speaker 1: true since some of the universities where she might have 27 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: pursued graduate work were in Germany, where the Nazi Party 28 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: was rapidly gaining power. Even though she had traveled in 29 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: Germany the year before, going to these universities was obviously 30 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: not an option. Ultimately, Dorothy was accepted to join John 31 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: Desmond Burnow's lab at Cambridge. Burnell had worked with William 32 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 1: Henry Bragg, and the lab at Cambridge was far more 33 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 1: advanced and better equipped than what Dorothy had access to 34 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 1: at Oxford. In addition to that, Burnew and Dorothy had 35 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: some similarities in their worldviews. Although Dorothy didn't outwardly align 36 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 1: herself with any political party at this point, she was 37 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: a pacifist and her beliefs were largely socialist. Burnow was 38 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: also a peace advocate, and a socialist, and he joined 39 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: the Communist Party in nineteen twenty three. He also had 40 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: a lot of sort of utopian ideals, including advocating free love. 41 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: Although Dorothy isn't known to have had a romantic relationship 42 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: with anyone before getting to Cambridge, she similarly believed that 43 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: people's relationship should be unrestricted. Barnw was part of a 44 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: whole network of left wing scientists and was connected to 45 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: the Cambridge Scientists Anti War group, which was founded in 46 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty two. He was also a passionate advocate for 47 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: social responsibility among scientists. Some of these beliefs and connections 48 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: did cause some challenges for him at Cambridge. Communism, of course, 49 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: can be very controversial, but this also speaks to his 50 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 1: reputation as a scientist, since it does not seem like 51 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: it actually affected his role at the university. When Dorothy 52 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: joined the lab, Bernald was using X ray crystallography to 53 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: try to study biological molecules. The molecules he was studying 54 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: don't typically form crystals in the body, but they can 55 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: be crystallized in a lab setting and then studied that way. 56 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: This had the potential to bring about new insights into 57 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: how these molecules worked in the body and how the 58 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: body functioned. Dorothy had not really intended to pursue a 59 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: PhD at Cambridge, but most of the people she worked 60 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: with thought that she should, so she did eventually start 61 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: working toward that end. Yeah, at first, she was mostly 62 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: thinking to get some additional education, but not go all 63 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: the way to a PhD with it. In nineteen thirty three, 64 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 1: Dorothy had a brief relationship with Conrad Hal Waddington, who 65 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 1: was known as wadd who was married but separated. This 66 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: relationship doesn't seem to have lasted very long, but wad 67 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: is often characterized as Dorothy's first love. She also had 68 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 1: a relationship with Bernal, who was married as well, and 69 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: who also had relationships with other women in addition to Dorothy. 70 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty four, Dorothy's family convinced her to see 71 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: a doctor about persistent pain in her hands, and she 72 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,039 Speaker 1: went to London to do this. While she was gone, 73 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: Bernal photographed his first X ray of crystallized pepsin, which 74 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: is a digestive enzyme. Bernell had been working on this 75 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: for a while, and while Dorothy was a the way, 76 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: he had discovered that keeping the crystals wet allowed them 77 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: to produce a diffraction pattern. If the crystals were allowed 78 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: to dry out, which had been the standard procedure before this, 79 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: they just produced a smudgie, dark mess. Dorothy got back 80 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: to Cambridge with orders from the doctor to rest for 81 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 1: a month, not helpful advice really for her, but when 82 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: she saw what Bernald had accomplished, she immediately got to work. 83 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: Their results were published in the journal Nature as X 84 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:35,359 Speaker 1: Ray Photographs of Crystalline Pepsin in May of nineteen thirty 85 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: four under both of their names. At the time, all 86 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: enzymes were believed to be proteins, and this moment is 87 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: marked as the beginning of protein crystallography. This was a 88 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:53,119 Speaker 1: groundbreaking and exciting discovery. Other researchers had also been trying 89 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: to analyze proteins, only to wind up with vaguely black 90 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: diffraction patterns that didn't yield any inform. Bernad's realization that 91 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: a pattern emerged if the crystal was exposed while wet 92 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: in its mother liquid suggested other protein molecules could also 93 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: be studied if they were treated similarly. When Dorothy embarked 94 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: on her PhD research at Cambridge, she focused on steroles. 95 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: Steroid alcohols that are found in both plants and animals, 96 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 1: and include cholesterol, and are much larger and more complicated 97 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 1: than what she had studied at Oxford. Understandably, at this point, 98 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 1: Dorothy was talking about Cambridge as a place she never 99 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 1: wanted to leave. She was doing groundbreaking work in an 100 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,600 Speaker 1: atmosphere that both challenged and encouraged what she was doing, 101 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: and she was among like minded people a lot of 102 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:49,479 Speaker 1: the time. But not long after starting at Cambridge, she 103 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: was offered a research fellowship at Oxford. This would not 104 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 1: only take her away from the equipment and the colleagues 105 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: that she had at Cambridge, but it would also give 106 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 1: her teaching responsibilities, which would take time away from the research. 107 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: But at the same time, that fellowship was a paid 108 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 1: position and something that had the potential to turn into 109 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: a permanent role. We haven't really talked about it before 110 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: this point, but paying for her education had required help 111 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: from her extended family. It was not something that was 112 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: easy for them to afford, so the opportunity to earn 113 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: an income was not something that she could just pass 114 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: up without really considering it. In terms of her research, 115 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: this fellowship could also allow her to pursue whatever projects 116 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: she wanted seeing them through from beginning to end, which 117 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: was not the case while working in someone else's lab. 118 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: But her reluctance to leave Cambridge was also something she 119 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: did not try to hide from the governing body at Oxford. Eventually, 120 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: Oxford offered Dorothy a two year fellowship at Somerville College, 121 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: but one that would be more focused on research and 122 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: would have the first year taking place at Cambridge. She 123 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: returned to Oxford in September of nineteen thirty four. Before 124 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: leaving Cambridge, Dorothy supported anti war causes in anti militarization campaigns, 125 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: including signing a letter published in the Cambridge Review that 126 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: protested the militarization of scientific research. For the most part, 127 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: she supported the work of other activists who were doing 128 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: most of the on the ground, organizing and demonstrating. Her 129 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 1: main focus was the lab. Dorothy published her first paper 130 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 1: as the sole author on April thirteenth, nineteen thirty five, 131 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: when she was twenty four. It was titled X ray 132 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 1: Single Crystal Photographs of Insulin and it was published in 133 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:49,080 Speaker 1: the journal Nature. This work involved figuring out how to 134 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: produce insulin crystals that were large enough to show a 135 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: structure when they were x rayed and photographed. This was 136 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: the beginning of her decade's long effort to figure out 137 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: the structure of insulin. Dorothy Crowfot was awarded a PhD 138 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: from Cambridge in nineteen thirty seven. Her dissertation was titled 139 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 1: X ray Crystallography and the Chemistry of the Sterolls. This 140 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: was also the start of her work on the structure 141 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:20,079 Speaker 1: of cholesterol, which would continue into the nineteen forties. Also 142 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty seven, same year that she got her PhD, 143 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: she met Thomas Lionel Hodgkin, who was one of Marjorie 144 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: Fry's cousins. Dorothy was staying with Marjorie in London, where 145 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 1: she had been invited to use the crystallography equipment at 146 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: the Royal Institution. Thomas was also staying with Marjorie for 147 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 1: reasons that require us to get into his backstory. Thomas 148 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: Lionel Hodgkin was born in nineteen ten. He had attended 149 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 1: Balliol College, Oxford, at the same time that Dorothy had 150 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:55,559 Speaker 1: been a student at Somerville College, although their paths never crossed. 151 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: Like Dorothy's father, Thomas had joined the British Civil Servant 152 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: where he worked in the British administrative territory known as 153 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 1: Mandatory Palestine. When he and Dorothy met, he had recently 154 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: resigned from his job after increasingly coming to support Arab 155 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: rights in Palestine and to oppose British imperialism. Thomas opposed 156 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: political Zionism and Britain's suppression of Arab uprisings against both 157 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: the British administration and the influx of Jewish immigrants from 158 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: Europe into Palestine. He had also become a communist. All 159 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: of this was straightforwardly incompatible with his work as a 160 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: British colonial administrator, and after he resigned, he was deported 161 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 1: to Lebanon. When Thomas and Dorothy met, he didn't have 162 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: a job and he was trying to figure out what 163 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: to do with himself. He was studying to become a 164 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: school teacher, which seemed like one of the only paths 165 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 1: that might be open to him at that point, but 166 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: it wasn't really what he wanted to do, and he 167 00:10:57,800 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 1: did not think he would be very good at it. 168 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,199 Speaker 1: But he and Dorothy had a lot in common. They 169 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 1: were both very bright, with similar ideas on things like 170 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: human rights and pacifism. Thomas was a Quaker, and while 171 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 1: Dorothy never formally joined the religious Society of Friends. She 172 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: agreed with a lot of their beliefs. Thomas and Dorothy 173 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: got married on December sixteenth, nineteen thirty seven, after knowing 174 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:24,959 Speaker 1: one another only a few months and meeting in person 175 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 1: only a few times. By the time they got married, 176 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: Thomas had found a teaching position. He felt a lot 177 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: more called to working in adult education in mining and 178 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 1: industrial communities in the north of England, so after they 179 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: got back from their honeymoon, they lived separately and they 180 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: saw each other only on weekends and holidays, but they 181 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: also wrote letters to each other almost every day. Dorothy 182 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: also continued to publish under the name Dorothy Crowfoot, not 183 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: adding Hodgkin until nineteen forty nine. Within a few months 184 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: of their marriage, Dorothy also became pregnant. This was completely 185 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: new territory for Somerville College and all the other Oxford 186 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: women's colleges. It wasn't even common for women fellows to 187 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 1: be married, and this was the first time anyone at 188 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 1: Oxford had given birth during a fellowship, so Dorothy became 189 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 1: the first person at Oxford to be given a paid 190 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: maternity leave. She felt a little weird about this, as 191 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: though she was being paid to do nothing, which kind 192 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: of cracks me up, given how much work a new 193 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: baby is. But the university seems to have realized that 194 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 1: if they did not set a precedent for offering maternity leave, 195 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: the women's scholars might feel like they could not accept 196 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 1: fellowships there because if they did, giving birth might derail 197 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 1: their career. The UK established its first paid maternity leave 198 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:52,679 Speaker 1: law almost forty years later in nineteen seventy five, and 199 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: of course the United States established its first paid maternity 200 00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: leave law. Never Do and Thomas's first child, a son 201 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: named Luke, was born in December of nineteen thirty eight. 202 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: The family had nurses and cooks to help look after 203 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: Luke and then later on his younger siblings as well. 204 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 1: That was while, of course Dorothy and Thomas worked in 205 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: different parts of England or different parts of the world. 206 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 1: This amount of help might sound like a luxury, but 207 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: it was necessary for both of them to be able 208 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: to work and the work that they wanted to do, 209 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,839 Speaker 1: and money was always really tight for the family. Affording 210 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: this level of help was a struggle a lot at 211 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:34,119 Speaker 1: the time. We are going to talk more about Dorothy's 212 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 1: career after we paused for a sponsor break. In the 213 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: months after Dorothy's son, Luke was born, she developed an 214 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 1: absess in her breast. This infection seems to have triggered 215 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 1: a flare up in the pain in her hands that 216 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 1: she had seen a doctor for back in nineteen thirty four. 217 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: As this was happening, in January of nineteen thirty nine, 218 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: Thomas fell asleep at the wheel and had a car crash. 219 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: He had narcolepsy, and that was something that was very 220 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: poorly understood at the time. He recovered, but he also 221 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: had to be hospitalized. Dorothy was eventually diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis, 222 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: which would affect her for the rest of her life. 223 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: She experienced pain and stiffness and swelling and deteriorating joints 224 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: that led her fingers to become misshapen, and this also 225 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: caused her to have difficulty with day to day tasks 226 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: like getting dressed. She also had to make some adjustments 227 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: in the lab to make her equipment accessible to her, 228 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: like adding long levers to switches so that she could 229 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: control the equipment. We're not going to repeat this over 230 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: and over for the rest of the episode, but this 231 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: was ongoing and at multiple points she had flare ups 232 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: in which her symptoms rapidly worsened. When Dorothy returned to 233 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: work after her maternity leave, her main focus was a 234 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: niche working on the structure of insulin. She gave birth 235 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: to a second child, Elizabeth, in nineteen forty one. By 236 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: that point, World War II was underway, and after her 237 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: daughter was born, the focus of Dorothy's work shifted to 238 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: the structure of penicillin. We have covered the history of 239 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: penicillin on the show before. Alexander Fleming discovered a mold 240 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: that had antibacterial properties by accident in nineteen twenty eight 241 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: and then published on it in nineteen twenty nine. Initial 242 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: efforts to turn this mold into a medicine were unsuccessful. 243 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: Then scientists at Oxford University, including pathology professor Howard Florey 244 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: and biochemist Ernst Chain, started working with Fleming's mold in 245 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty nine. When Dorothy heard about the work with penicillin, 246 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 1: she described herself as quote irresistibly drawn to inject myself 247 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: into the situation. Not long after their first successful tests 248 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: in mice in nineteen forty, Chain challenged her to work 249 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: out the structure of the penicillin molecules, saying quote, someday 250 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 1: we will have crystals for you. The war made this 251 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: a high priority project, since figuring out the structure of 252 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 1: penicillin could allow researchers to synthesize it and to find 253 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: other similar molecules with antibiotic properties. It also gave Dorothy 254 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: access to equipment that she wouldn't have had otherwise. John 255 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: Desmond Bernal had moved from Cambridge to a lab at 256 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: Birkbeck University of London during the war. He was assigned 257 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: to work with the Research and Experimental Department of the 258 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: Ministry of Home Security, which a lot of people thought 259 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 1: was a little surprising considering his politics. His lab equipment 260 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 1: was moved to Oxford, both because it would not have 261 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: been used otherwise and because in London it was at 262 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: risk of being damaged in bombings. Two of his research 263 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: assistants at the university also went to work with Dorothy. 264 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 1: The first production of crystallized penicillin salt was in nineteen 265 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 1: forty three, but Dorothy didn't receive crystals that were really 266 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,160 Speaker 1: suitable for this kind of study until nineteen forty four, 267 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: when samples were sent from the United States. Before that, 268 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 1: she and other chemists were able to break penicillin down 269 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: into smaller compounds and analyze those. Eventually, the core of 270 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 1: a penicillin molecule was known to contain twenty seven atoms, 271 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 1: including eleven hydrogen, nine carbon, four oxygen, two nitrogen, and 272 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: one sulfur, but these atoms could be arranged in very 273 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: different ways, and chemists disagreed on which configuration was more likely. 274 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,359 Speaker 1: Dorothy's work on this required her and her team to 275 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 1: work in three dimensions rather than working as a flat projection. 276 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,239 Speaker 1: They had to go layer by layer to create the 277 00:17:56,280 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: full structure of the molecule. She was finally caught that 278 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 1: the structure she had found was correct on May eighth, 279 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:07,639 Speaker 1: nineteen forty five, which was victory in Europe Day. She 280 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:11,439 Speaker 1: described carrying her physical model of the molecule through a 281 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: crowd of people celebrating the end of the war so 282 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 1: that she could show it to Ernst Shane. I think 283 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: it was made of like sticks and corks. Alexander Fleming, 284 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: Ernest Chaine, and Howard Florey were jointly awarded the Nobel 285 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: Prize in Physiology or Medicine for their work with penicillin 286 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: in nineteen forty five. That same year, a conference was 287 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: held to recognize the fiftieth anniversary of the discovery of 288 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 1: X rays. Dorothy's work on the X ray crystallography of 289 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: penicillin seemed like a logical and important topic to cover 290 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: at this conference, but it was decided that only work 291 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: that was carried out before nineteen forty four would be 292 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:57,680 Speaker 1: publicly announced. Dorothy's colleague Kathleen Lonsdale, who was also a crystallographer, 293 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 1: wrote a letter to John Brunall that described Dorothy as 294 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: quote as angry as her gentle nature will allow her 295 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 1: to be over this decision. It wasn't just that her 296 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 1: accomplishment wasn't going to be included at this conference. She 297 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 1: also thought keeping it a secret would hinder scientific progress, 298 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 1: and there was no reason for the secrecy now that 299 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: the war was over. The pharmaceutical companies that were producing 300 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: penicillin also wanted her work to be protected as a 301 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 1: trade secret, so her crystallographic work on penicillin was not 302 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: published until nineteen forty nine, overlapping with Dorothy's wartime penicillin work. 303 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: In nineteen forty three, Margaret Roberts entered the chemistry program 304 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: at Somerville College, Oxford. She would later become Margaret Thatcher, 305 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: Prime Minister of the UK from nineteen seventy nine to 306 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:55,360 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety, and Dorothy was one of her teachers. These 307 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: two women were extremely different politically, but Thatcher had a 308 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 1: pick make sure of Dorothy at the Prime Minister's residence 309 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 1: at Downing Street, and Dorothy also spoke directly to Margaret 310 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: Thatcher on a number of topics that were important to 311 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: her during her time as Prime Minister, including improving relations 312 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: with the Soviet Union and chemical weapons test bans. To 313 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,360 Speaker 1: return to the nineteen forties, In nineteen forty five, Thomas 314 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 1: was appointed Secretary to the University's Delegacy for Extra Mural 315 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 1: Studies at Oxford. That was an adult education program, so 316 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: for a while the family was all together and living 317 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: near Oxford, but Thomas eventually left this position to travel 318 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,359 Speaker 1: to Africa and help set up adult education programs in 319 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: what's now Ghana, Nigeria, and Sudan, and also to work 320 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:49,120 Speaker 1: with anti colonial and independence movements in these places. While 321 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:53,160 Speaker 1: in Africa, he also started writing books about African history 322 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 1: and African nationalism. Thomas and Dorothy's third child, Toby, was 323 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,119 Speaker 1: born in nineteen forty six. Dorothy became a Fellow of 324 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,439 Speaker 1: the Royal Society the following year, which was two years 325 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: after Kathleen Lonsdale and Marjorie Stevenson became the first two 326 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 1: women to become Fellows of the Royal Society. In nineteen 327 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,919 Speaker 1: forty eight, Dorothy was part of the establishment of the 328 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: International Union of Crystallography, and one of the things that 329 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: she was really insistent about was that it needed to 330 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: be a truly international organization. That meant that, regardless of 331 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: the growing Cold War, this organization needed to include crystallographers 332 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 1: from the Soviet Union and nations allied with the Soviets, 333 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 1: including scientists who were Communist Party members. This was another 334 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 1: theme in her life and her career. Science was science 335 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,959 Speaker 1: regardless of where a scientist lived, and scientists should be 336 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 1: allowed to communicate and collaborate with one another, regardless of 337 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 1: the political differences among them or among their home nations. 338 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 1: Also in nineteen forty eight Leicester's Myth, the pharmaceutical company 339 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:06,400 Speaker 1: Glaxo sent Dorothy samples of what was being called anti 340 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 1: pernicious anemia factor to analyze. We have talked in other 341 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: episodes about how research into vitamins has often focused on 342 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 1: the conditions. Those substances prevented, like vitamin C, which prevents scurvy, 343 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:26,199 Speaker 1: being called anti scorbutic factor. Anti pernicious anemia factor is 344 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:31,439 Speaker 1: now known as vitamin B twelve. Today, pernicious anemia is 345 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: understood as an autoimmune disorder that keeps the body from 346 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: absorbing vitamin B twelve correctly. By this point, people had 347 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: started developing computers that can help with the laborious calculations 348 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:48,199 Speaker 1: involved in X ray crystallography. There were some computers in 349 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:52,119 Speaker 1: the UK, including the pilot Ace computer that was originally 350 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: developed by Alan Turing, which Dorothy used to process some 351 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,919 Speaker 1: of her data, but she also got an offer to 352 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: have some of her calculations done in the United States 353 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: at a computer at the National Bureau of Standards. Taking 354 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:10,199 Speaker 1: advantage of this offer required sending data across the Atlantic 355 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 1: Ocean through the mail or by telegraph. Dorothy worked on 356 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 1: the structure of vitamin B twelve for years. She also 357 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 1: traveled a lot, including to the United States to meet 358 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 1: with researchers there and to Africa to visit her husband. 359 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 1: In nineteen fifty three, she planned to visit the US 360 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,679 Speaker 1: to meet with Linus Pauling about protein research, but that 361 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:37,199 Speaker 1: year the State Department ruled her statutorily inadmissible to the 362 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: United States. This probably involved an assortment of factors, including 363 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: her connections to known communists, including her husband and John Bernal, 364 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: and her participation in organizations like Science for Peace. A 365 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: number of people advocated for her to be allowed into 366 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,679 Speaker 1: the US, and she got a waiver in nineteen fifty seven, 367 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: but for decades after this, any time she wanted to 368 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,399 Speaker 1: go to the United States, first she had to go 369 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 1: to the US Embassy in London and have her waiver renewed, 370 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 1: since she had been barred from entering the United States. 371 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: In nineteen fifty three, she decided to go on a 372 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 1: different trip, which was to go to Russia with John Bernal. 373 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 1: We said earlier that Dorothy could be overly optimistic or naive, 374 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: and this definitely seems to be true when it came 375 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: to her perceptions of the Soviet Union and her experiences there. 376 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 1: She was by far not the only person to find 377 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: the Soviet Union's professed ideals of equality and egalitarianism appealing. 378 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 1: That has come up in a number of previous episodes 379 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: of the show. But she also heard about atrocities that 380 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: had been or were being carried out under Joseph Stalin, 381 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,919 Speaker 1: such as the famine known as the Holla Demor that 382 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: we covered on the show in twenty twenty two. She 383 00:24:55,960 --> 00:25:00,920 Speaker 1: also heard about things like scientists and academics being abducted disappearing, 384 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: but she seemed to have trouble believing a lot of this. 385 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: She also heard about it a lot of it from 386 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 1: sources in the United States and US allies. The United 387 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: States had barred her from entry. She was reluctant to 388 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,880 Speaker 1: believe news from a country that would not permit her 389 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: to enter, and, as was the case for other visitors 390 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: to the Soviet Union, her visit in nineteen fifty three 391 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,399 Speaker 1: was very tightly controlled, so there were limits to what 392 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: she actually saw. Dorothy published her work on the structure 393 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:36,160 Speaker 1: of vitamin B twelve in nineteen fifty five after eight 394 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: years of work, with additional work happening after that. This 395 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,239 Speaker 1: was a larger, more complex molecule than penicillin, with one 396 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:48,160 Speaker 1: hundred and eighty one atoms. That year, she was promoted 397 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 1: to reader at Oxford, which is roughly comparable to a 398 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 1: professor in the United States. She also advocated for pay 399 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: equity for the women in her lab She always maintained 400 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,679 Speaker 1: that she had faced barriers based on her gender, but 401 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: when she heard that women were being paid differently depending 402 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 1: on whether they were married, she refused to let that stand. 403 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 1: This was one of many efforts to advocate for women's 404 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 1: students and researchers during her career. We'll get to the 405 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: later part of her career. After a sponsor break in 406 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:33,400 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty seven, Dorothy Crowfitt Hodgkin and her children moved 407 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: in with her sister, Joan, who had gotten a divorce 408 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,439 Speaker 1: and also had children of her own. They formed a 409 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: household of three adults and eight children. Although Thomas was 410 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: still frequently away, Joan was in charge of managing the household, 411 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 1: which became home to just a continual stream of guests. 412 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:57,439 Speaker 1: There were scientists, African independence activists, poets, writers, all of 413 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: the teenaged friends of all of these children. It sounds 414 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:06,879 Speaker 1: like a very busy, bustling place. People probably thought it 415 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 1: was a commune. At some point. Dorothy continued to both 416 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,680 Speaker 1: research and travel. She was willing to go anywhere there 417 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: were crystallographers she could encourage or learn from. That included 418 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 1: being part of a delegation of British academics who visited 419 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: China in nineteen fifty nine. In nineteen sixty Dorothy was 420 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,400 Speaker 1: named to the Royal Society Wolfson Professorship, which was an 421 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: endowed professorship that brought more funding and more academic status 422 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: than she'd had previously. The following year, her husband Thomas 423 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:44,199 Speaker 1: was appointed Director of the Institute for African Studies in Accra, Ghana, 424 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 1: by President Kwame and Kruma. Dorothy saw Thomas for a 425 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: month or two at a time between then and nineteen 426 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: sixty six, when Kruma was overthrown in a coup. Fortunately, 427 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: Thomas was not in Ghana when that happened, his life, 428 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 1: if definitely, would have been at risk. In nineteen sixty four, 429 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: Dorothy Crowfoot Hodgkin was awarded the Nobel Prize in Chemistry 430 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 1: for her determinations by X ray techniques of the structures 431 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: of important biochemical substances. This made her the third woman 432 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 1: to earn a chemistry Nobel, after Marie Kirie and Irene 433 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: Giulio Ciri, and the only British woman ever to earn 434 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: a Nobel Prize in science. Thomas was still working in 435 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 1: Ghana then and she was there visiting him. She learned 436 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 1: about the award from two reporters from the Ghana Times, 437 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: who came to interview her about it. Her telegram informing 438 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: her of the award, and many many telegrams and letters 439 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: congratulating her, had all gone to her home in England, 440 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: where they were forwarded to her through the mail by 441 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 1: a niece who had been raised to be frugal. I 442 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: love this story so much. No one thought to say, 443 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: if I win the Nobel Prize, send a telegram immediately. 444 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 1: Her Nobel Awards ceremony took place on December tenth, nineteen 445 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 1: sixty four. Dorothy and Thomas traveled to Sweden from Ghana. 446 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 1: Their daughter Elizabeth came from Zambia, where she was working 447 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 1: as a teacher. Their son Toby came from India. Their 448 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: other son, Luke and his family were in Algeria, where 449 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: Luke was teaching at a university, and they were unable 450 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 1: to attend. They had become a very global family. Dorothy 451 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: was awarded the Order of Merit in nineteen sixty five, 452 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 1: making her the second woman so awarded after Florence Nightingale. 453 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 1: Combined with her Nobel Prize, this made her a public figure. 454 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 1: She used some of her Nobel Prize money to support 455 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: the students and staff who had worked with her at Oxford, 456 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: and she used the public recognition she developed to advocate 457 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: against war and imperialism and for nuclear disarmament. These ideas 458 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 1: had always been important to her, but before this her 459 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: research had always taken priority. It really seemed like as 460 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: she became a lot more famous, she really felt a 461 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 1: duty to use that fame to advance social and political causes. 462 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 1: At the same time, she was usually really non confrontational 463 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: in her advocacy. She had always believed that constructive dialogue 464 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: was the key to resolving disputes, Going back to attending 465 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 1: the League of Nations General Assembly when she was a teenager, 466 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 1: she tried to advocate for scientists whose work was being 467 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: suppressed by talking directly but respectfully to government leaders and 468 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 1: other officials in those countries. She was willing to go 469 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 1: anywhere and work with anyone who was trying to break 470 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 1: new ground in science, regardless of that country's relationship with 471 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: the UK. This increasing dedication to advocacy and the travel 472 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 1: schedule brought on by her Nobel Prize meant she was 473 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: spending less time in the lab when she was there. 474 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 1: Her prime Mary focus was back on figuring out the 475 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 1: structure of insulin. Insulin is a very large, complex molecule, 476 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: containing seven hundred and eighty eight atoms, and the math 477 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: just was not something she could do by hand when 478 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 1: she first photographed in insulin crystal in nineteen thirty five. 479 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: In the nineteen sixties, developments in computers made this math 480 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 1: more possible. Her team of researchers from around the world 481 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: solved the structure of insulin in nineteen sixty nine, thirty 482 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 1: four years after she took that first picture. Dorothy always 483 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: made it clear that she did not do this by herself, 484 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 1: and she also regularly credited J. D. Bernal with the 485 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 1: discoveries that had made her later work with protein crystallography possible. 486 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 1: But many of the researchers who worked on the structure 487 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: of insulin with her said that she was really the 488 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: key to this whole effort. She tied everyone's work together, 489 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 1: She made critical insights and asked really probing questions that 490 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 1: kept the work going. In nineteen seventy, Dorothy was named 491 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: chancellor of the University of Bristol, a position she held 492 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 1: until nineteen eighty eight. This was generally considered to be 493 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: an honorary position, but she used it to advocate for 494 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 1: funding for the university, and she met directly with students 495 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: to hear about their concerns and to try to resolve them. 496 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty two, government funding cuts threatened to close 497 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: the university's Department of Architecture, and while Dorothy was outvoted 498 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 1: in trying to save it, she became part of the 499 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 1: establishment of the Bristol Center of Advanced Architecture to help 500 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 1: take its place. Over the nineteen seventies and eighties, she 501 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: continued to do a lot of travel, A lot of 502 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: it was focused on her peace activism. She also made 503 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: a point of traveling to visit, work with, and advocate 504 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: for scientists in developing countries and countries that were considered 505 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: to be enemies or at least unfriendly to the UK. 506 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 1: That included multiple trips to the Soviet Union, anti Communists, China, 507 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 1: and North Vietnam. She was deeply and vocally opposed to 508 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: the United States involvement in the Vietnam War and served 509 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,239 Speaker 1: as president of the Medical Aid Committee for Vietnam and 510 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: a member of a Commission of Inquiry into US war 511 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 1: crimes in Vietnam. Dorothy was often accompanied by a family 512 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: member when she traveled, often her daughter or one of 513 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 1: her older grandchildren. Because of the assistance that she needed 514 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 1: day to day and the many ways that the world 515 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: could be inaccessible to her, rheumatoid arthritis was progressively disabling 516 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 1: for her, and eventually she started using a wheelchair. In 517 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two, Dorothy became president of the International Union 518 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,719 Speaker 1: of Crystallography. One of her projects as president was to 519 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 1: negotiate for China's readmission into the Union. This didn't actually 520 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 1: work out. During her time in office, China would not 521 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 1: be part of any organization that recognized Taiwan as an 522 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: independent country, which the Union did. China was readmitted to 523 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: the Union in nineteen seventy eight after the death of 524 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 1: Mao Zadong. From nineteen seventy five to nineteen eighty eight, 525 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 1: Dorothy also served as president of the Pugwash Conferences on 526 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: Science and World Affairs. This organization was established after World 527 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,880 Speaker 1: War II, inspired by a manifesto sent from Bertrand Russell 528 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 1: to Albert Einstein. Einstein signed this manifesto shortly before his death, 529 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 1: and others also signed it, but it has become known 530 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: as the Russell Einstein Manifesto. The manifesto called for scientists 531 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 1: to quote assemble in conference to appraise the perils that 532 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 1: have arisen as a result of the development of weapons 533 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:52,560 Speaker 1: of mass destruction, and to discuss a resolution. Those perils, 534 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,880 Speaker 1: of course, included the threat of nuclear war. In nineteen 535 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,839 Speaker 1: seventy six, Dorothy was awarded the Royal Societies Coply Medal, 536 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: which is its highest honor. She was the first woman 537 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 1: to be so awarded. She retired from the Wolfson Professorship 538 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 1: the following year, having spent a lot of her last 539 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 1: years in that role just setting everything up to continue 540 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 1: on without her. Thomas Hodgkin died in Greece in March 541 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,759 Speaker 1: of nineteen eighty two while he and Dorothy were on 542 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 1: the way home from a trip to Sudan. In addition 543 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,840 Speaker 1: to having narcolepsy, Thomas was a lifelong smoker, and he 544 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:33,360 Speaker 1: had developed severe emphysema. His cause of death was heart failure. 545 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: Dorothy had him buried in the churchyard of the village 546 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,319 Speaker 1: in Greece where they had been staying. Their marriage had 547 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 1: been one of lengthy separations for almost its whole existence. 548 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: Thomas had also had relationships with other people, which Dorothy 549 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: knew about. I wrote the word affairs in this outline, 550 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 1: but I kind of think it's the wrong word. It 551 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:57,759 Speaker 1: doesn't feel like either of them thought these relationships were 552 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,880 Speaker 1: a breach of trust. One of those relationships, though, was serious, 553 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 1: and it was with somebody that he had been engaged 554 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 1: to before he ever met Dorothy. She was really devastated 555 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 1: after his death. Though she lost weight, the symptoms of 556 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 1: her rheumatoid arthritis got worse. Her colleague, Guide Dodson, worried 557 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:19,960 Speaker 1: that she might be seriously ill, and he tried to 558 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,399 Speaker 1: ask her if something was wrong, and her answer was no, guy, 559 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:28,239 Speaker 1: it's just grief. Dorothy tried to keep herself busy with 560 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,840 Speaker 1: a lot of travel and conferences. In nineteen eighty seven, 561 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,719 Speaker 1: the Soviet Union awarded her the Lenin Peace Prize. In 562 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,800 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty eight, she published her last paper on insulin 563 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 1: at the age of seventy eight. After that, she retired 564 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,840 Speaker 1: from public life, primarily because of the pain and progressive 565 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:50,400 Speaker 1: disability involved with having rey with tooid arthritis. In nineteen ninety, 566 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,760 Speaker 1: Dorothy fell at home and broke a hip, and after 567 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 1: that she needed twenty four hour assistance. After the fall 568 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 1: of the Soviet Union restricted were lifted on her entry 569 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 1: into the United States. She still did travel when she could, 570 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:09,880 Speaker 1: including to the nineteen ninety International Union of Crystallography Conference 571 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 1: in Bordeaux, France. In nineteen ninety three, apparently inspired by 572 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:18,280 Speaker 1: a TV program that was critical of China, she decided 573 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 1: she wanted to attend the International Congress of Crystallography held 574 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: in Beijing. Everyone was really worried about this trip, and 575 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 1: her doctor refused to certify her as fit for travel, 576 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 1: but she went anyway in the company of her daughter Elizabeth. 577 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety four, Dorothy Crowfoot Hodgkin fell and broke 578 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,399 Speaker 1: a hip again. She went to the hospital, and her 579 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:46,359 Speaker 1: family ultimately decided to bring her home. She died there 580 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,040 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks later, on July twenty ninth, nineteen 581 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:53,480 Speaker 1: ninety four, at the age of eighty four. Molecular biologist 582 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 1: and crystallographer Max Perutz, who had been Dorothy's friend and 583 00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:01,040 Speaker 1: colleague for about forty years, delivered a eulogy. I'm going 584 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 1: to read part of it as I try not to 585 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:08,600 Speaker 1: fall apart quote. She pursued her crystallographic studies not for 586 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,560 Speaker 1: the sake of honors, but because this was what she'd 587 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:14,560 Speaker 1: liked to do. There was a magic about her person. 588 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,239 Speaker 1: She had no enemies, not even among those whose scientific 589 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:22,839 Speaker 1: theories she demonstrated or whose political views she opposed. Just 590 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,720 Speaker 1: as her X ray cameras bared the intrinsic beauty beneath 591 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,880 Speaker 1: the rough surface of things, so the warmth and gentleness 592 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,319 Speaker 1: of her approach to people uncovered in everyone, even the 593 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 1: most hardened scientific crook, some hidden kernel of goodness. She 594 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,680 Speaker 1: was once asked in a BBC radio interview whether she 595 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 1: felt handicapped in her career by being a woman. As 596 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,720 Speaker 1: a matter of fact, she replied ingenuously, men were always 597 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,760 Speaker 1: particularly nice and helpful to me because I was a woman. 598 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: At scientific meetings, she would seem lost in a dream 599 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,880 Speaker 1: until she suddenly came out with some penetrating remark you, 600 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 1: usually made in a diffident tone of voice, and followed 601 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:07,160 Speaker 1: by a little laugh, as if wanting to excuse herself 602 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:11,720 Speaker 1: for having put everyone else to shame. As a side note, 603 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,480 Speaker 1: Max Perutz and John C. Kendrew were awarded a Nobel 604 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:19,799 Speaker 1: Prize for discovering the structure of hemoglobin in nineteen sixty two, 605 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:25,000 Speaker 1: two years before Dorothy got her Nobel Prize. Perretz said 606 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,720 Speaker 1: of that quote, I felt embarrassed when I was awarded 607 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:31,359 Speaker 1: the Nobel Prize before Dorothy, whose great discoveries had been 608 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 1: made with such fantastic skill and chemical insight and had 609 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 1: preceded my own. In addition to her groundbreaking work on 610 00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:44,240 Speaker 1: the structure of things like penicillin, insulin, and vitamin B twelve, 611 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:49,400 Speaker 1: over her career, Dorothy Crowft Hodgkin had encouraged and mentored 612 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:55,240 Speaker 1: students from around the world. Former students established crystallography labs 613 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:59,759 Speaker 1: in multiple countries, including China, India, and New Zealand. One 614 00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:04,200 Speaker 1: of her former students, M. Vijayan wrote an obituary in 615 00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:07,120 Speaker 1: which he described her as a mother with a vast 616 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:11,880 Speaker 1: international family of colleagues and scientists and friends, noting that 617 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,279 Speaker 1: of the more than one hundred scientists who worked in 618 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:20,400 Speaker 1: her laboratories, only twenty five came from the UK. Others 619 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,000 Speaker 1: came from a number of places, some of the countries 620 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,319 Speaker 1: I'm about to say don't exist anymore. This is his 621 00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:30,160 Speaker 1: list from when he wrote her obituary. Australia, India, Canada, 622 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 1: New Zealand, Sweden, Switzerland, Italy, Chile, Denmark, New Guinea, Germany, Holland, Yugoslavia, China, Japan, Poland, France, 623 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:45,440 Speaker 1: Nigeria and the USSR. Today, the Royal Society offers a 624 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:49,520 Speaker 1: Dorothy Hodgkin Fellowship for early career scientists who need some 625 00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:53,520 Speaker 1: flexibility in their work, like parents, caregivers, people with health 626 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:59,239 Speaker 1: conditions or disabilities, anything requiring flexibility. That's Dorothy Hodgkin. I 627 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 1: love her so much. She's great. That's why she got 628 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,239 Speaker 1: a two part episode. Uh. I also have a little 629 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,640 Speaker 1: bit of listener mail, and this listener mail is from 630 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,960 Speaker 1: Julia who wrote, Dear Holly and Tracy, my nine year 631 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,560 Speaker 1: old has been getting really into learning about history and 632 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:16,839 Speaker 1: as a result, we listen to the podcast every time 633 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:20,240 Speaker 1: we're in the car together. This week, we're visiting Savannah, Georgia, 634 00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,480 Speaker 1: going on plenty of historic home tours, et cetera. And 635 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,600 Speaker 1: what episode should come up on our queue but the 636 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,239 Speaker 1: Life and After Life of Casimir Pulaski. It prompted us 637 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 1: to add a visit to the Fort Pulaski National Monument 638 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,680 Speaker 1: just outside Savannah, which is a really cool interpretive site 639 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:38,880 Speaker 1: and gave us the chance to talk about the history 640 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:42,120 Speaker 1: of the fort from colonial times to the present, touching 641 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:45,719 Speaker 1: on many topics covered in previous podcast episodes we've listened to. 642 00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:48,960 Speaker 1: The fort is also a gorgeous place to stroll around 643 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,840 Speaker 1: with tunnels, motes, beautiful views of wetlands in the coast, 644 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:55,719 Speaker 1: and rolling grass hills. Thanks so much for creating accessible, engaging, 645 00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,799 Speaker 1: rigorous history content for my kiddo to devour and which 646 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,560 Speaker 1: gave us jumping off points to talk about current events 647 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:06,320 Speaker 1: and history. IRL. This podcast is solid gold. In lieu 648 00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,000 Speaker 1: of Pat tax, I'm including this picture of my kiddo 649 00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,720 Speaker 1: holding a small hermit crab from one of the touch 650 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:15,560 Speaker 1: tanks and the nearby Tybee Island Marine Center a great 651 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,600 Speaker 1: little aquarium slash nature center just down the road from 652 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:24,600 Speaker 1: Fort Pulaski, Julia. And indeed we have a photo of 653 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:29,480 Speaker 1: a child's small hand holding a hermit crab. Very sweet. 654 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,080 Speaker 1: My brother had a pet hermit crab when we were 655 00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:36,799 Speaker 1: small children who was acquired at the beach. Julia, Thank 656 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,239 Speaker 1: you again for this email. I love it. If you 657 00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,160 Speaker 1: would like to send us a note where a history 658 00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:45,360 Speaker 1: podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com. You can also read the 659 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,040 Speaker 1: show notes to our episodes on our website, which is 660 00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:51,680 Speaker 1: besinistory dot com, and you can subscribe to the show 661 00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,040 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app and anywhere else you like to 662 00:42:54,080 --> 00:43:02,120 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Stuff you Missed in History Class is 663 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:06,520 Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit 664 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:10,000 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 665 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:10,880 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.