WEBVTT - Pearl Jam's Stone Gossard and Jeff Ament 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:15.956 Pushkin. 0:00:20.276 --> 0:00:22.836 Pearl Jam, Stone Gossard and Jeff Amtt are two of 0:00:22.836 --> 0:00:26.636 the Seattle scenes most foundational musicians from the eighties and nineties. 0:00:27.516 --> 0:00:29.996 Stone and Jeff started playing together in nineteen eighty four 0:00:30.116 --> 0:00:33.476 as members of Green River, which eventually dissolved, leading singer 0:00:33.476 --> 0:00:37.276 Mark Arm to form Mud Honey. Later, Jeff played bass 0:00:37.316 --> 0:00:40.076 and Stone played guitar in Mother Love Bone until their 0:00:40.156 --> 0:00:43.076 lead singer Andrew Wood died of an overdose just days 0:00:43.076 --> 0:00:47.116 before their major label debut in March of ninety Reeling 0:00:47.196 --> 0:00:50.556 from Andy's death, Jeff and Stone started recording with soundgardens 0:00:50.596 --> 0:00:53.436 Chris Cornell in a side project called Temple of the 0:00:53.516 --> 0:00:57.116 Dog that featured vocals from a then unknown singer from 0:00:57.156 --> 0:01:00.916 San Diego named Eddie Vedder. Later that year, Jeff and 0:01:00.956 --> 0:01:03.516 Stone asked Eddie to join their new band with guitarist 0:01:03.556 --> 0:01:07.276 Mike McCready as Pearl Jam. They released their debut album 0:01:07.396 --> 0:01:10.956 ten in August of ninety one. The album went thirteen 0:01:11.076 --> 0:01:14.356 times platinum and charted on Billboard for nearly five years. 0:01:15.276 --> 0:01:18.036 Since then, Pearl Jam have released eleven more albums and 0:01:18.076 --> 0:01:20.436 built a diehard fan base, thanks in part to their 0:01:20.476 --> 0:01:24.716 outstanding live shows. Last week, they released their latest album, 0:01:24.796 --> 0:01:27.716 Dark Matter, which was produced by Andrew Watt, who's recently 0:01:27.796 --> 0:01:31.396 worked with Miley Cyrus, Iggy Pop, Post Malone, and one 0:01:31.396 --> 0:01:34.556 of my favorite projects in a long time from Ozzy Osbourne. 0:01:35.556 --> 0:01:38.116 On today's episode, Lea Rose talks to Stone, Gossard and 0:01:38.196 --> 0:01:41.796 Jeff Ament about how Andrew watts encyclopedic knowledge of Pearl 0:01:41.876 --> 0:01:45.116 Jam helped inspire some of their best performances to date. 0:01:45.916 --> 0:01:48.276 Stone and Jeff also opened up about the inner workings 0:01:48.276 --> 0:01:51.516 of the professional relationship, and Stone remembers the first time 0:01:51.556 --> 0:01:54.276 he met Eddie Vedder, who marked the occasion by passing 0:01:54.356 --> 0:02:01.036 him a handwritten poem. This is broken record liner notes 0:02:01.076 --> 0:02:02.036 for the digital age. 0:02:02.236 --> 0:02:03.156 I'm justin ritchman. 0:02:04.116 --> 0:02:07.476 Here's Lea Rose's conversation with Pearl Jam, Stone Gossard and 0:02:07.596 --> 0:02:08.356 Jeff Ament. 0:02:09.716 --> 0:02:12.196 When you set out to record the new album, did 0:02:12.236 --> 0:02:16.036 you have a feel in mind that you wanted to, 0:02:16.956 --> 0:02:19.436 you know, achieve for the new album something that was 0:02:19.516 --> 0:02:22.916 completely different from Gigaton or did it all sort of 0:02:23.116 --> 0:02:25.876 come together spontaneously? Man? 0:02:26.036 --> 0:02:28.956 I mean, have we ever had a plan and has 0:02:28.996 --> 0:02:31.116 the plan ever been what we actually ended up doing? 0:02:31.156 --> 0:02:33.956 I think Stone and I have lots of side conversations 0:02:34.036 --> 0:02:36.436 about what we hope the plan could be, but it's 0:02:36.516 --> 0:02:37.196 usually never that. 0:02:38.396 --> 0:02:40.916 No, we didn't know what we were going to do. 0:02:40.956 --> 0:02:44.396 All of us individually have aspirations for where we think 0:02:44.436 --> 0:02:46.676 the band can go or how it could kind of 0:02:46.756 --> 0:02:48.996 be different. You know. I think all of us are 0:02:48.996 --> 0:02:54.356 always aiming for trying to expand on what we've done 0:02:54.396 --> 0:02:58.356 in the past. And we have the experience of being 0:02:58.356 --> 0:03:01.236 in the band and having flashes of like what's possible, 0:03:01.316 --> 0:03:05.676 and those aren't always easy to recreate in different scenarios, 0:03:05.756 --> 0:03:08.996 especially recording scenarios, you know. But this was a big 0:03:09.196 --> 0:03:11.876 time flying blind and I think, you know, with Eddie 0:03:12.316 --> 0:03:15.276 having met Andrew and worked with him a little bit, 0:03:15.836 --> 0:03:18.036 it was sort of like, we're just going to show 0:03:18.076 --> 0:03:20.956 up in LA and we're you know, this young kid, 0:03:20.996 --> 0:03:23.756 he loves Pearl Jim, he's you know, he's a producer, 0:03:23.796 --> 0:03:26.596 he's you know, he's and Eddie had a great experience 0:03:26.636 --> 0:03:28.676 working with him on his solo record, and so we 0:03:28.836 --> 0:03:30.836 just all said, well, you know, we'll show up. That 0:03:30.956 --> 0:03:34.836 sounds fun, easy, and you know, immediately we were we 0:03:34.836 --> 0:03:38.476 were making music and good stuff was happening. So we 0:03:38.836 --> 0:03:42.236 sort of we got hooked in pretty quick to the process. 0:03:42.996 --> 0:03:45.276 Do you think this setting had anything to do with 0:03:45.436 --> 0:03:48.396 like recording at Shangri Law and being near the ocean 0:03:48.516 --> 0:03:50.796 and being in California, Do you think that influenced the 0:03:50.876 --> 0:03:51.476 music at all? 0:03:52.356 --> 0:03:54.716 You know, I mean we started at Andrew's house the 0:03:54.756 --> 0:03:57.276 first session, so the second session was sort of like 0:03:57.796 --> 0:04:00.996 thrown together last minute. And Rick opened up some time 0:04:01.036 --> 0:04:04.716 for us at Shangri La, which was very generous. I 0:04:04.916 --> 0:04:08.396 love that studio me right, Like, I love that there's 0:04:08.436 --> 0:04:10.876 like no TV and that had sort of minimal and 0:04:10.916 --> 0:04:13.036 there's like, really the only thing you can do if 0:04:13.076 --> 0:04:15.916 you're not playing music is to shoot pool. I love 0:04:15.956 --> 0:04:18.076 it when like the five of us can get in 0:04:18.076 --> 0:04:21.076 a room and just be focused, and it just feels 0:04:21.116 --> 0:04:23.516 like when we can do that, we always hit a 0:04:23.596 --> 0:04:27.556 vein in that session. There's three days where it's just 0:04:27.596 --> 0:04:29.516 that spot that you want to be as a vand 0:04:29.556 --> 0:04:32.356 where it's just like it's just going, you know, And 0:04:33.036 --> 0:04:36.116 that studio had a lot to do with us making 0:04:36.116 --> 0:04:37.116 a record really quickly. 0:04:37.236 --> 0:04:39.796 I think I think we got maybe four from the 0:04:39.876 --> 0:04:43.476 very first session, which was in Beverly Hills at Andrew's 0:04:43.556 --> 0:04:47.356 old spot, and that was like a year previous and 0:04:47.396 --> 0:04:49.436 we were there for ten days or something like that, 0:04:49.516 --> 0:04:52.716 maybe seven or eight, I can't remember, but we hit 0:04:52.796 --> 0:04:55.076 something that was great, but there was also some stuff 0:04:55.116 --> 0:04:57.476 that we kind of started to maybe sort of kind 0:04:57.476 --> 0:04:59.716 of think too much again or get too much on 0:04:59.756 --> 0:05:02.636 our old process. And I think then we had a 0:05:02.676 --> 0:05:05.036 year off and it was amazing to go back and 0:05:05.076 --> 0:05:07.636 then sort of have memories of what we did that 0:05:07.676 --> 0:05:10.716 first time and then really kind of go and everyone stayed, 0:05:11.356 --> 0:05:14.996 you know, pretty focused of and it's really the focus 0:05:15.116 --> 0:05:18.516 being whatever you're you know, bringing in today or however 0:05:18.556 --> 0:05:21.156 the song starts to go, just be ready for it 0:05:21.196 --> 0:05:25.276 to kind of get ripped open and rearranged and touched 0:05:25.276 --> 0:05:28.796 by everyone. And you have to have some courage when 0:05:28.836 --> 0:05:30.916 it comes to that kind of stuff. But also that 0:05:30.996 --> 0:05:33.076 it just makes it so much more of a band thing. 0:05:33.236 --> 0:05:36.796 Everyone's invested. Everybody is like writing and thinking about the 0:05:36.836 --> 0:05:39.476 song at that moment, and I mean, we've done it 0:05:39.516 --> 0:05:43.236 before like that, but I don't ever want to go back. Honestly. 0:05:43.316 --> 0:05:45.436 It was like, you know, in terms of that process, 0:05:45.476 --> 0:05:46.116 I loved it. 0:05:46.196 --> 0:05:48.476 You know, how does the band handle when there's like 0:05:48.556 --> 0:05:52.436 little squabbles over parts of songs, like if somebody brings 0:05:52.476 --> 0:05:54.876 something and you start playing, and somebody wants to take 0:05:54.916 --> 0:05:58.116 it in a different direction, and not everybody's agreeing. What's 0:05:58.156 --> 0:06:01.516 the communication like and who ultimately wins? 0:06:02.476 --> 0:06:05.076 I mean, I think we were trusting Andrew really on 0:06:05.116 --> 0:06:07.636 this record. Because he's a producer and we're going to 0:06:07.676 --> 0:06:09.276 make a record with you, you might as well trust his 0:06:09.356 --> 0:06:12.316 instincts and and go with it. So I think that 0:06:12.476 --> 0:06:15.076 having him there was was helpful in terms of just 0:06:15.196 --> 0:06:18.396 navigating that stuff. I think if anything gets too squabbly, 0:06:18.556 --> 0:06:20.516 we just move on to something else, and that this 0:06:20.556 --> 0:06:23.796 gets left behind probably more than anything. So I think 0:06:23.836 --> 0:06:28.036 all of us, you know, got to see how the 0:06:28.156 --> 0:06:32.156 group process ended up being a better process for almost everything. 0:06:32.196 --> 0:06:35.476 You know, at every juncture you'd kind of you know, 0:06:35.996 --> 0:06:38.516 and it was all very quick, which would make it better. 0:06:38.556 --> 0:06:40.436 It's like it's sort of ripping the band it off quick, 0:06:40.476 --> 0:06:42.636 you know, it's like got an idea, throw it down, 0:06:42.716 --> 0:06:45.316 it's already changed. It's you know, it's gone before you 0:06:45.316 --> 0:06:49.796 you know, And it was great. And Ed is inspired 0:06:49.836 --> 0:06:52.836 in those situations too. He writes so quickly when he's 0:06:53.356 --> 0:06:55.956 in on the process of the writing, as opposed to 0:06:55.996 --> 0:06:58.636 just getting a demo and like sitting with it in 0:06:58.676 --> 0:07:02.236 his room for weeks. You know. It's like it's it's 0:07:02.356 --> 0:07:06.756 much more fruitful for him to be there saying let's 0:07:06.756 --> 0:07:08.876 double that, or I don't like that part, let me 0:07:08.916 --> 0:07:10.996 get back to that other thing quicker, you know, Or 0:07:11.436 --> 0:07:13.316 I need a chord here, I need a different chord 0:07:13.356 --> 0:07:16.116 getting me to this, you know, to this next bit. 0:07:16.596 --> 0:07:19.396 And then it just becomes kind of a group process 0:07:19.476 --> 0:07:22.956 that's not the same as an individual kind of writing 0:07:22.996 --> 0:07:25.316 a song, but it's and that's I think that's what's 0:07:25.356 --> 0:07:27.236 special about this record is that it really is a 0:07:27.236 --> 0:07:31.476 lot of reconstructed, sort of quickly ideas, you know. 0:07:32.316 --> 0:07:34.316 And I think we learned a long time ago that 0:07:34.796 --> 0:07:37.836 if you're fighting too hard for something, it usually even 0:07:37.836 --> 0:07:40.236 if it ends up on the record, it usually I 0:07:40.276 --> 0:07:42.996 don't think it ends up being a joyful memory for 0:07:43.036 --> 0:07:45.036 the rest of the band, and even a joyful memory 0:07:45.036 --> 0:07:47.436 for you as the writer. I think. So I feel 0:07:47.476 --> 0:07:51.036 like as I've gotten older, I welcome like ripping my 0:07:51.156 --> 0:07:54.436 thing open, and I think it's far more interesting that way. 0:07:54.476 --> 0:07:57.196 I think the collaborative process to me is like one 0:07:57.276 --> 0:08:00.396 of the most interesting things, Like if you can really 0:08:00.436 --> 0:08:03.956 trust the other people in the band that you're collaborating with, 0:08:04.196 --> 0:08:07.236 it will usually come back way more interesting and have 0:08:07.316 --> 0:08:10.196 a different perspective that you can have if you're just 0:08:10.476 --> 0:08:13.756 have tunnel vision, you know, for your songs. So you know, 0:08:13.796 --> 0:08:16.116 it's not that different than how we made you know, 0:08:16.116 --> 0:08:18.116 the last couple of records with Brendan really I mean 0:08:19.076 --> 0:08:22.836 moving super fast and you know, FAD's not sort of 0:08:22.916 --> 0:08:25.276 latching onto something, moving on to the next thing, and 0:08:25.796 --> 0:08:27.476 so we're I think we're better in those. 0:08:27.716 --> 0:08:33.596 Yeah. I think Andrew's enthusiasm, his unbridled enthusiasm, was an 0:08:33.676 --> 0:08:37.116 element of it. He never he never let us get 0:08:37.156 --> 0:08:39.916 down on ourselves at all individually. For me, like playing 0:08:39.916 --> 0:08:41.956 in there and sometimes being in there and going, you know, 0:08:42.436 --> 0:08:44.636 I don't know what I'm doing. It's like he would 0:08:44.876 --> 0:08:47.116 no matter what, he would just be like, oh that's great, 0:08:47.156 --> 0:08:49.156 no way, go back, you know, like he would just 0:08:49.276 --> 0:08:51.916 have this like you're gonna get You're gonna figure this out. 0:08:51.916 --> 0:08:53.316 You're my favorite guitar player. 0:08:53.356 --> 0:08:53.516 You know. 0:08:53.516 --> 0:08:55.596 It's like just you know what I mean, but not 0:08:55.716 --> 0:08:59.236 necessarily that, but it's just like he just just infused 0:08:59.236 --> 0:09:02.156 you with He wasn't gonna let it get you down 0:09:02.236 --> 0:09:03.796 and he knew that that's not where you're going to 0:09:03.836 --> 0:09:07.356 get a good performance. So yeah, it's manipulative on one hand, 0:09:07.556 --> 0:09:10.996 but it also works, you know. And so I think, 0:09:11.196 --> 0:09:14.956 you know, his knowing the songs and loving Pearl Jam 0:09:15.036 --> 0:09:17.276 so much and just being a fan it was a 0:09:17.316 --> 0:09:20.596 major factor in sort of keeping the thing moving along 0:09:20.796 --> 0:09:22.876 and him really actually, I know how to play all 0:09:22.916 --> 0:09:25.796 your songs. I can show you where you know, you 0:09:25.836 --> 0:09:27.876 know that this should have been a minor chord, but 0:09:27.916 --> 0:09:30.076 you didn't. It's just cool. I'm so glad that you 0:09:30.076 --> 0:09:33.316 did that, like you know, so he was. He had 0:09:33.356 --> 0:09:35.276 a lot of energy for that. So that was that 0:09:35.356 --> 0:09:36.436 was a big factor I think. 0:09:36.276 --> 0:09:38.596 In the record. Yeah, and and and talking about those 0:09:38.596 --> 0:09:41.676 times when you're stuck. He could reference old songs. He 0:09:41.716 --> 0:09:43.276 would be like, yeah, like that thing that you do 0:09:43.316 --> 0:09:45.636 in Hail Hail, or he would reference things you'd be 0:09:45.756 --> 0:09:48.196 like and sometimes that would unstick you because it would 0:09:48.236 --> 0:09:50.476 like pull you out of a pattern that you were 0:09:50.476 --> 0:09:52.116 stuck in and it would make you think about it 0:09:52.116 --> 0:09:55.796 in a different pattern. And you know, I never felt 0:09:55.836 --> 0:09:57.996 stuck for more than a minute. Wow, you know when 0:09:58.036 --> 0:09:59.596 you were when you were working on stuff with him. 0:09:59.596 --> 0:10:03.116 So I'm fascinated by Andrew Watt because he's now produced 0:10:03.276 --> 0:10:07.436 albums for Ozzy Osbourne, Iggy Pop, He's working with you guys, 0:10:07.596 --> 0:10:09.476 the Rolling Stones last record. 0:10:10.356 --> 0:10:13.116 Yeah, he's just going through his collection of childhood bands 0:10:13.116 --> 0:10:14.916 and going, I'm gonna work with this man, and I'm 0:10:14.916 --> 0:10:17.316 gonna work with this man. It's all his reality. We're 0:10:17.396 --> 0:10:19.596 just you know, we're just part of his dream right now, 0:10:19.636 --> 0:10:21.916 which is great. We'll take a ride with him. 0:10:21.956 --> 0:10:25.076 It's incredible. And is he like, was there anything since 0:10:25.076 --> 0:10:27.236 he has such a deep knowledge of Pearl Jam, was 0:10:27.276 --> 0:10:30.356 there anything from your catalog that he felt like he 0:10:30.436 --> 0:10:33.316 wanted to hear more of from a. 0:10:33.196 --> 0:10:37.836 Fan perspective completely, But he wouldn't necessarily tell us exactly 0:10:37.836 --> 0:10:40.596 what that was. But I think he wanted us to 0:10:41.036 --> 0:10:44.956 write more kind of collectively and quickly, kind of probably 0:10:44.956 --> 0:10:47.316 more like our earlier process was where it's like we 0:10:47.356 --> 0:10:49.276 didn't have any time or we never even realized you 0:10:49.276 --> 0:10:51.276 could have more time, and so we just stuff was 0:10:51.356 --> 0:10:53.836 just happening quick and nobody had time to think about 0:10:53.836 --> 0:10:55.956 it too much. And then just he wanted to make 0:10:55.996 --> 0:10:58.196 a heavy record. I think he really wanted it to 0:10:58.196 --> 0:11:01.436 be an aggressive Pearl Jam record and from the get go, 0:11:01.756 --> 0:11:05.316 so and he he had great sounds right away. You know, 0:11:05.316 --> 0:11:07.836 we just went into the studio and he kind of 0:11:07.836 --> 0:11:09.756 had stuff's kind of set up. You could go on 0:11:09.836 --> 0:11:12.276 and try this amp or try that guitar, but it 0:11:12.316 --> 0:11:15.076 was all kind of dialed in. So we were stuff 0:11:15.116 --> 0:11:17.356 was sounding good like kind of immediately. So that was 0:11:17.796 --> 0:11:21.476 that was good. He works fast, kept us interested for sure. 0:11:21.796 --> 0:11:25.316 And I had a lot of conversations after that first session, 0:11:25.596 --> 0:11:27.556 you know, like phone conversations with him where he would 0:11:27.556 --> 0:11:30.036 ask about how did this song get written? How did 0:11:30.036 --> 0:11:32.716 that song get written? And so he was I think 0:11:32.756 --> 0:11:36.796 he was like trying to mine like, okay that whatever 0:11:36.836 --> 0:11:40.236 the process was on that particular song, that's we need 0:11:40.276 --> 0:11:44.356 to revisit that process. Not necessarily like a similar riff 0:11:44.476 --> 0:11:47.676 or a similar sound even, but like the creative process. 0:11:47.716 --> 0:11:51.396 I think he was really trying to tap into, you know, ultimately, 0:11:51.396 --> 0:11:52.956 I think the best way we work with each other. 0:11:53.076 --> 0:11:55.236 I mean, I think it's we talk about it all 0:11:55.276 --> 0:11:58.556 the time about I think we all have strengths that 0:11:58.676 --> 0:12:01.556 sometimes like if we lean into those strengths that it 0:12:01.596 --> 0:12:02.716 turns out better. 0:12:03.116 --> 0:12:06.036 Can you quickly like run down what you feel everyone 0:12:06.076 --> 0:12:08.876 in the band's strengths are like who does what the 0:12:08.916 --> 0:12:10.556 best man? 0:12:10.876 --> 0:12:14.196 Well, I mean, we have ed who can like if 0:12:14.236 --> 0:12:16.316 you have a if you have two chords or an 0:12:16.356 --> 0:12:20.036 interesting repetitive pattern, he can write a melody over that 0:12:20.036 --> 0:12:23.956 that's like memorable, and he can attach words to it 0:12:23.996 --> 0:12:27.076 that make you feel something deeply, which to me is 0:12:27.116 --> 0:12:29.996 one of the most incredible things to witness, to be 0:12:30.036 --> 0:12:31.996 in the room when that's happening and something's coming out 0:12:31.996 --> 0:12:33.196 of the ether and then all of a sudden the 0:12:33.236 --> 0:12:35.716 line comes out that's like this, you know, just this 0:12:35.876 --> 0:12:40.036 beautiful two line piece of poetry. Yeah, we have that. 0:12:40.596 --> 0:12:43.356 We have Matt Cameron in the band, who can, like 0:12:44.156 --> 0:12:46.876 you know, play drums around anything and make it interesting 0:12:46.916 --> 0:12:50.036 and has such a unique style and such a unique 0:12:50.036 --> 0:12:54.556 way to like accent things and places that you wouldn't expect, 0:12:54.596 --> 0:12:58.276 which sometimes turns the groove around in a really cool way. 0:12:58.356 --> 0:13:03.196 We have Mike McCready, who fucking rips and if you're 0:13:03.236 --> 0:13:05.956 working fast and he's just playing, it's like you tap 0:13:05.996 --> 0:13:08.116 into that thing that you know, you have a guy 0:13:08.156 --> 0:13:10.956 that can really take a song over the top. I 0:13:10.956 --> 0:13:12.836 think Stone and I are sort of the lunch pale guys. 0:13:12.876 --> 0:13:14.836 I think Stone would come in with a riff and 0:13:14.876 --> 0:13:18.836 I might say, hey, what if we simplify that little 0:13:18.836 --> 0:13:20.716 part of the riff, or he has a really busy 0:13:20.796 --> 0:13:22.876 riff and I'll just find the three big chords that 0:13:22.956 --> 0:13:26.276 sort of work over that riff. And I think sometimes 0:13:26.316 --> 0:13:28.756 some of the best stuff that we've done have been 0:13:28.996 --> 0:13:30.636 in that, in that spirit. 0:13:30.876 --> 0:13:33.636 And then you have Jeff who's ear and his listening 0:13:33.716 --> 0:13:37.156 to kind of the whole picture and understanding how where 0:13:37.196 --> 0:13:40.636 the glue needs to be, understanding really listening to the vocal, 0:13:40.716 --> 0:13:43.356 really understanding where how the vocal sits in the track 0:13:43.676 --> 0:13:46.996 and supporting that and sort of being this ear that 0:13:47.116 --> 0:13:51.396 has that you know, that big picture perspective on sonics 0:13:51.516 --> 0:13:55.356 and music history and you know an incredible you know 0:13:55.436 --> 0:13:56.236 audio file. 0:13:56.676 --> 0:13:58.516 Well, let me say one more good thing about Stone, 0:13:58.836 --> 0:14:01.836 because he's just said such nice things. But Stone also 0:14:01.876 --> 0:14:04.476 plays guitar like a drummer, Like his right hand is 0:14:04.516 --> 0:14:07.116 almost like having another drummer in the band, which I 0:14:07.156 --> 0:14:09.116 think some of the best stuff that we've done are 0:14:09.196 --> 0:14:12.676 when there's sort of almost those two kind of frenetic 0:14:13.156 --> 0:14:16.316 rhythmic elements happening when the drummer and Stone's right hand 0:14:16.316 --> 0:14:19.956 are sort of battling or you know, joining up. And 0:14:20.156 --> 0:14:22.076 I think there's I think there's moments on this record 0:14:22.116 --> 0:14:26.116 that have kind of classic Stone riffage. 0:14:26.196 --> 0:14:27.716 I was just gonna say, I think Dark Matter is 0:14:27.756 --> 0:14:30.436 a really great example of and I think that was 0:14:30.476 --> 0:14:32.716 one of the last, one of the last songs we wrote, 0:14:32.756 --> 0:14:34.916 but that that's a great example of the sort of 0:14:34.956 --> 0:14:38.036 mishmash of what is possible. And it started out with 0:14:38.116 --> 0:14:41.436 Matt Cameron stepping in the day before and just warming 0:14:41.556 --> 0:14:43.756 up on his drums, getting ready to record that day, 0:14:43.796 --> 0:14:46.356 and just starts playing this beat, which is the beat 0:14:46.396 --> 0:14:48.316 that's in Dark Matter, but it was he was kind 0:14:48.316 --> 0:14:49.876 of playing it on his snare and it wasn't like 0:14:50.036 --> 0:14:52.436 as aggressive as that, but it was like that beat 0:14:52.476 --> 0:14:54.396 was there, and we all just looked at each other 0:14:54.436 --> 0:14:56.396 and went, that's what he does every day. It's amazing. 0:14:56.396 --> 0:14:57.836 It comes in he plays that thing. It's like, how 0:14:57.916 --> 0:15:00.236 is that not a song? And we just rolled tape 0:15:00.476 --> 0:15:03.516 and we grabbed that beat and we looped it, and 0:15:03.676 --> 0:15:06.316 Jeff and I took that same loop poem that night 0:15:06.436 --> 0:15:08.676 and both of us wrote different parts that ended up 0:15:08.716 --> 0:15:12.076 being the verse and kind of the chorus melody parts 0:15:12.316 --> 0:15:15.396 and The next day, we had a song that was 0:15:15.836 --> 0:15:21.876 this weird combination of everybody's sort of you know, being there, 0:15:21.916 --> 0:15:25.556 but not anybody being in charge of what happened. And 0:15:25.716 --> 0:15:28.316 I just I live for that stuff. Now. It's like, 0:15:28.396 --> 0:15:30.316 I want to make a whole record where it's just like, 0:15:30.716 --> 0:15:34.956 don't bring anything in, or bring in only bits and pieces. 0:15:35.076 --> 0:15:36.836 You know, if we need a bit or a piece, 0:15:37.196 --> 0:15:40.436 be ready for it. But that that group arrangement is 0:15:40.516 --> 0:15:43.556 just a it's brilliant, and it's I think it's less 0:15:43.556 --> 0:15:47.476 common now. There's just more individual songwriting efforts and brilliant 0:15:47.716 --> 0:15:50.996 songwriting efforts. And I love that our place in rock 0:15:51.076 --> 0:15:52.996 right now might be more of like, hey, we do 0:15:52.996 --> 0:15:55.236 it as a we do it in a way that 0:15:55.596 --> 0:15:59.236 you can't replicate because you can't, you know, five different 0:15:59.396 --> 0:16:01.996 states of mind are attacking it from a different point 0:16:01.996 --> 0:16:04.996 of view. So I think that's a great example of 0:16:05.316 --> 0:16:07.076 what's possible when you write as a group. 0:16:07.436 --> 0:16:10.156 Yeah, and that Stone, how would you describe how you 0:16:10.196 --> 0:16:12.876 and Mike McCready play off each other and how you 0:16:13.276 --> 0:16:16.116 come up with your parts together? How does that process work? 0:16:17.756 --> 0:16:19.516 You know, we just we just kind of feel it out. 0:16:19.556 --> 0:16:21.396 I think the less we talk about it, the better 0:16:21.436 --> 0:16:25.036 it is in general. But you know, I think, you know, 0:16:25.076 --> 0:16:26.996 as you play in a band, you kind of look 0:16:27.036 --> 0:16:29.796 for the spot where nobody's playing, or maybe there's a 0:16:29.836 --> 0:16:33.356 point in the musical phrase whereas it needs some support 0:16:33.476 --> 0:16:37.476 or it's something sagging or you need to So I 0:16:37.556 --> 0:16:40.116 kind of usually head for that spot and that accent, 0:16:40.196 --> 0:16:43.556 and I'll start just figuring out maybe it's a one 0:16:43.636 --> 0:16:45.476 note thing, or maybe it's like just a two note 0:16:45.516 --> 0:16:47.996 climb into that note, or you know, you just start 0:16:48.076 --> 0:16:51.756 kind of going through your little process of taking little 0:16:51.756 --> 0:16:54.236 building blocks and stacking them up and kind of seeing 0:16:54.276 --> 0:16:58.116 if it feels like it supports the architecture of the 0:16:58.156 --> 0:17:01.076 song or whatever. And I think Mike comes from a 0:17:01.116 --> 0:17:04.836 place of very much just needs to feel it and 0:17:04.876 --> 0:17:08.396 then just needs to play and winds his way through, 0:17:08.916 --> 0:17:13.756 you know, a track, and just finds his malady or 0:17:13.996 --> 0:17:16.076 his feel that makes him feel good. 0:17:16.116 --> 0:17:19.996 You know, Jeff, you mentioned that there wasn't anything to 0:17:20.036 --> 0:17:22.756 do at Shangri La other than to play pool. You know, 0:17:22.836 --> 0:17:27.236 in between recording Hanging Out, I noticed on the intro 0:17:27.676 --> 0:17:30.756 of the first song, Scared of Fear, it sounds like 0:17:30.836 --> 0:17:34.916 it builds to a pool break. Yeah, was that inspired 0:17:35.076 --> 0:17:38.316 by Shangri Law. And I'm just curious how you guys 0:17:38.316 --> 0:17:42.956 have thought traditionally about the album openers, like those little 0:17:42.956 --> 0:17:44.436 intros to the albums. 0:17:44.796 --> 0:17:46.476 Oh well, that was a piece that I sort of 0:17:46.516 --> 0:17:48.716 came up with. It sort of felt like the pool 0:17:48.756 --> 0:17:50.876 break right at the start of the record didn't feel 0:17:50.916 --> 0:17:56.476 like it, I felt maybe too abrupt, and so yeah, 0:17:56.516 --> 0:18:00.276 I recorded most of that in Montana, like just kind 0:18:00.276 --> 0:18:02.396 of going back and forth with Andrew, like you know, 0:18:02.556 --> 0:18:05.116 him saying like, yeah, it should be twenty five thirty seconds, 0:18:05.716 --> 0:18:08.596 and so I gave him like a minute with a 0:18:08.636 --> 0:18:11.836 bunch of ambient loops and yeah, a bunch of music. 0:18:12.436 --> 0:18:14.916 And I love making that sort of stuff, and which 0:18:14.956 --> 0:18:19.116 we you know, our very first record, the Master Slave Pieces, 0:18:19.396 --> 0:18:23.076 was sort of a very early sort of version of 0:18:23.076 --> 0:18:25.396 that kind of piece of music. And some of it 0:18:25.516 --> 0:18:28.716 was me taking the actually the little melody at the 0:18:28.836 --> 0:18:32.156 end of the record and sort of changing I actually 0:18:32.196 --> 0:18:36.076 took that little three chord melody that Ed's playing on 0:18:36.116 --> 0:18:38.476 guitar at the end of the record, and I sort 0:18:38.476 --> 0:18:41.676 of transposed it to fit a key lower than the 0:18:41.676 --> 0:18:45.036 beginning of the key that that scared of fear starts 0:18:45.076 --> 0:18:46.716 so just to just to make it feel like there 0:18:46.796 --> 0:18:49.436 was a little boost when when Stone comes in with 0:18:49.436 --> 0:18:49.876 that riff. 0:18:50.556 --> 0:18:50.956 Very cool. 0:18:51.036 --> 0:18:54.476 That is the That is the pool Table from Yeah, yeah, 0:18:54.596 --> 0:18:57.596 that's recorded there. And was it Sean Penn? 0:18:57.596 --> 0:18:58.476 A couple of annoyments. 0:18:58.556 --> 0:19:00.076 I think it was maybe Sean Penn that. 0:19:00.076 --> 0:19:02.196 Broke the seems like a solid break. 0:19:02.516 --> 0:19:04.996 Yeah, it looks like the I bet the balls spread 0:19:05.036 --> 0:19:07.156 around the table. It wasn't the. 0:19:07.116 --> 0:19:09.756 Fanciest MIC's ever on pool Table. 0:19:09.836 --> 0:19:12.436 How many takes did they get though? It's like two 0:19:12.476 --> 0:19:14.356 hours of like, let's do it again, but I'm. 0:19:14.356 --> 0:19:18.636 At most after quick break, will be back with more 0:19:18.676 --> 0:19:26.076 from Leah Rose, Stone Gossard and Jeff Ament. We're back 0:19:26.116 --> 0:19:27.916 with Stone, Gossard and Jeff Ament. 0:19:29.076 --> 0:19:33.276 I'm curious about the song Wreckage, which I love so much. 0:19:33.276 --> 0:19:35.956 It's so pretty. How did that song come about? What 0:19:35.996 --> 0:19:37.556 do you remember from that session? 0:19:38.396 --> 0:19:40.636 The main thing I remember is Ed sitting down the 0:19:40.676 --> 0:19:43.716 guitar and sort of playing the basically the chords to 0:19:43.836 --> 0:19:47.036 the verse, and then we just kind of moved through that. 0:19:47.516 --> 0:19:50.756 Ed kind of kept adding parts. I mean that song, 0:19:50.836 --> 0:19:53.276 I mean, from my standpoint, it felt like it was 0:19:53.276 --> 0:19:56.396 getting written on the move, you know, like as he 0:19:56.436 --> 0:20:01.396