WEBVTT - Ep: 529: BONUS DROP - Steve and Clay Talk Alaska Wolf Trapping 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:13.320 This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:18.599 bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listeningcast. You can't 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:22.080 predict anything. The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:25.520 by first Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands, 0:00:25.600 --> 0:00:28.880 or scouting for ELK. First Light has performance apparel to 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:31.960 support every hunter in every environment. Check it out at 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:35.199 first light dot com, f I R S T L 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:41.159 I T E dot com. Probably ladies and gentlemen. We're 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:43.760 joined by our our, our friend and colleague and uh, 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:47.800 I don't know, beloved, uh ark and Arkinson? What is? 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:48.479 How do you say that? 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:51.080 Ar Kanson? 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:54.960 Ar Kanson Clay Newcomb, who's recently back from a trip 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:58.960 where he accompanied a wolf trapper in Alaska and made 0:00:59.000 --> 0:01:02.440 a uh made a video about hanging out with this 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:08.560 Alaska wolf trapper and video has gotten quite a lot 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:10.640 of views and generated a lot of conversation. And I 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:12.960 wanted to check in with Clay about it. And first 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:15.040 thing I want to know Clay is tell me what 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:17.120 you wanted to name it and what they ended up 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:18.360 naming it and why. 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:22.839 Well I wanted to I wanted to just come out 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:25.319 and say what the film was about in the title, 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:28.680 and I wanted to call it trapping wolves in Alaska 0:01:29.160 --> 0:01:34.840 or Alaskan or Alaskan wolf trapping, and we were we 0:01:34.840 --> 0:01:39.039 were advised not to do that because of the potential 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:42.880 for YouTube to flag something that had the word trapping 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:45.840 in the title, and so we ended up calling it 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:51.120 Alaskan wolf management with Clay Nukem, and that that kind 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:53.480 of opens up a can of worms from the very beginning. 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:59.360 Really sets you know, Yeah, I think it sets uh uh. 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:04.360 It just sets an expectation and delivers a certain dialogue. 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:07.160 Meaning if you made a squirrel hunting video, which you 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:09.200 like to do and which I like to do, and 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:12.160 then you had to call it squirrel management in Michigan, 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:17.519 it feel kind of weird, right, Raccoon managed. 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:23.720 It feels a whole lot more like it's this mission 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:28.560 driven experience, as if I felt like, by me going 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:32.760 up there and trapping a couple of wolves, four wolves, 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:36.919 actually that it was gonna, you know, change something, And 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:40.080 no doubt that it's a statement in today's world if 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:44.800 you go wolf trapping, But really I wanted to. I 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:47.799 wanted to experience it. I've known David Bennett's for about 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:49.440 ten years. 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:50.560 That's what I wanted to get into because well, I 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:53.840 don't understand. I was a little hurt because I don't 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:56.239 know why it didn't come. It's why the article wasn't 0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:57.760 beaver trapping with Steve. 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:03.120 Beaver Management with Steve Vanilla. 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:06.040 Yeah, so what what? What headed the whole thing off? 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:06.880 Or what started? 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:10.560 So I met David Bennett's about ten years ago through 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:15.440 Bear Hunting magazine. David's an outfitter. David's a professional crabber. 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:20.200 That's his main livelihood is crabbing for three months during 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:21.040 the summer. 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:23.120 For Dungeon Crab. Yeah. 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:28.960 Oh man, his stories and and and and his learning 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:32.280 about that was incredible. But he's just like the classic 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:33.440 Alaskan man. 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:37.640 He's he's whenever those guys come through our area, crab 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:41.960 and gets bad on. Yeah. Yeah. 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:47.520 David is also an outfitter, so he guides for you know, 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:50.760 Alaskan big game. I would say his primary thing is 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:54.800 is black bear and goats. But then lastly in the 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:57.960 wintertime he traps and he's traped since he was ten 0:03:58.040 --> 0:03:58.560 years old. 0:03:58.680 --> 0:03:58.880 You know. 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:05.200 David's fifty seven or so. Just an incredible guy, you know, 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:08.800 and he at times he's made a lot of money 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:12.040 trapping back in the day and this, but to this 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:15.160 day he still traps just as hard as he's ever trapped, 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:16.400 just out of principle. 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:19.440 Yeah, if he's sixty seven and he started trapping when 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:23.719 he was ten, he was cranking through the big fur boom. 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:26.760 I mean he was young, but he was selling fur 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:31.000 during like the the big fur boom with a capital FB. 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:36.120 I think it's hard for the l late seventies, early eighties. 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:38.520 You know, my friend Stu Miller said to me, every 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:44.599 generation has its own fur boom, and uh his game early. 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:48.200 Man, I think those old guys have a hard time 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:50.880 letting go of that. I mean, so much of what 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:54.600 we do, I think is is fueled by more than 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:59.719 just economics and the buzz that somebody would have gotten 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:02.960 back in the day to have made a legitimate amount 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:08.680 of money trapping furs. That association with sustenance for your family, 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:11.440 you know, going out and taking first off the landscape 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:13.960 would just almost be hard to erase. It feels to 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:16.280 me like, you know, you keep doing it even when 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:19.279 the prices are cheap. But man, the beaver, the beaver 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:21.960 markets back though, because of these dang felt hats. 0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:25.120 Oh I know, Uh, it is cranky. I'm obsessed with 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:27.080 I don't want to talk about fur prices, but I 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:29.560 don't sell fur. I'm obsessed with the fur market. I 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:31.880 follow the fur market more closely than I follow like 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:32.680 the stock market. 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:35.159 Do you have one of those? Do you have like 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:38.360 a graph on your phone that you just can of 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:40.680 It doesn't work the clip on and see like that, 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:43.320 ups and down, it's like a stock exchange. 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:47.400 No, it doesn't work that way. So you reached out 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:49.560 to him, and I bet there's no way that he 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:54.200 wasn't at first thinking to himself, Man, I don't want 0:05:55.400 --> 0:06:00.640 you and some camera dudes coming into this thing, which 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:03.920 is just going to cause me hassle. Guys are going 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:06.039 to know where I trap, Guys are going to know 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:09.880 how I trap. I'm gonna have animal rights people coming 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:14.360 after me. How did you ever get him to say, yeah, 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:16.280 come on out trapping with a camera. 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:22.640 You know, I was very conscious of that when I 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:29.320 reached out to him, And I honestly feel like David 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:35.240 believes that the the authenticity and legitimacy of what he's 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:40.520 doing is able to withstand any criticism that he's taken. 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:46.560 And he also just isn't concerned about giving away secrets. 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:50.120 I mean sometimes guys are like that. David is willing 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:52.599 to help anybody can that's wanting to do it, but 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:56.480 it's so difficult. I mean what the film didn't portray 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:59.520 and we tried to portray. And you know this because 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:01.800 you do so like this all the time, Steve is that. 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:04.279 It. 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:09.960 You gotta have something driving you that's almost clinically insane 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:12.600 to do what he does. I mean being out on 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:16.960 the water, the distance of these the distance he's traveling, 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:20.000 the amount of money that he spends on even just 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:25.120 his trap sets. It's a very very few people are 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:27.040 going to see that video and move to Alaska and 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:29.400 be a wolf trapper. Yeah, and he knows that. 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:30.640 And uh. 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:35.320 And I told him that we were gonna handle it 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:40.280 in a responsible way, and I think he just he 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:42.560 just took us for our at our word for that. 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:45.400 You know. So, how did you guys pick the season 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:49.440 you were going to go? Was he trying to line 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:53.160 it up with with peak conditions, with when he doesn't 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:55.840 have anything else going on with when he felt that 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:59.160 it was the biggest chance of getting like real prime 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:03.920 wolf else that weren't rubbed out right, what was he 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:06.120 shooting for when you guys went so. 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:09.239 His his year is very regimented down to the week. 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:11.560 You know, he can tell you what he's going to 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:14.320 be doing any given week of the year. And that 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:16.880 first week of December he was going to be trapping wolves, 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:18.760 whether I was with him or not. That's what he 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:24.120 told me. And yeah, it's it's peak for it's but 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:28.520 it's also you know, tough travel conditions that time of year. 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:31.400 No daylight, you can oh, that was. 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:33.560 The biggest challenge of the whole trip, Steve, And you 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:36.880 would know it as much as anybody is. It gets 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:43.920 daylight at about seven thirty AM, maybe even closer to eight, 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:48.360 and it's dark by four thirty. I mean it's like 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:52.840 dark dark And so what was wild so dirt myth 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:56.920 was my cameraman on this deal, you know, Garrett Smith 0:08:57.280 --> 0:09:02.080 and he we would get back to the boat four 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:06.360 thirty and not be needing to be in the boat 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:10.880 till eight o'clock the next day. Setting in that little 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:14.760 cabin on the on the Sandpiper, which we became very 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:18.800 familiar with. We'd set around for six hours and I 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:22.320 don't know what we did read, eat. 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:24.280 Pack a big old pack a big dip. 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:28.280 Probably right, dirt was running through some dip, buddy, you 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:30.920 better believe it. I was like, man, what if we 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:32.800 run out? And he was like, Clay, I got so 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:35.320 much dip in my bag. He's like, I got enough 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:37.120 for all of us. And I'm like, I don't dip. 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:39.079 I'm out, but appreciate it. 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:43.199 So what are the days goal? Like? He runs a 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:47.280 big like he's running a big well. First, I think, 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:48.960 guess before we say what the day's goal like, you 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:52.320 should explain this is a marine based deal. He's not 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:56.319 running off snowmobiles, trucks. It's it's marine based. 0:09:56.400 --> 0:10:02.040 It's boats completely two boats, water based, completely water based. 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:02.560 Trap line. 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:02.880 Yeah. 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:04.560 So if you saw the film, you saw that he 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:08.800 has a forty eight foot crabbing boat with a cab, 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:13.360 a kitchen, you know, fully equipped. We we put that 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:16.760 in a small narrow inlet to get it out of 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:19.240 big water in waves, and then we took a skiff 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:21.840 out to check the traps. And what is amazing to 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:23.680 me what I would have thought if you would have 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:25.720 just said, Clay, you're gonna have to go trap wolves 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:28.800 in a in Alaska, how are you going to do it? 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:33.280 Coastal Alaska. I would have thought you couldn't trap these 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:35.680 wolves on the beach just because they wouldn't have any 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:39.520 reason to be there. But he's literally catching wolves on 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:41.880 the beach in the sand a lot of times. 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:47.000 Yeah, you know, you only salmon. They like, it's a 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:50.439 peculiar kind of wolf that like salmon dead. I've watched 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:56.440 them eating rotten salmon off the beach. Yeah, well yeah there, 0:10:56.559 --> 0:10:57.040 so there. 0:10:57.800 --> 0:11:02.400 He feels like they're actually attracted to these points, these 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:05.720 sandy points. He feels like they just kind of loaf there, 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:08.800 you know, like a Mallard duck and the timber in 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:10.520 the midday, you know, just like loafing. 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:11.600 Huh okay. 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:17.200 But but what's what it was interesting to me is 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:19.800 he said he learned how to catch wolves by watching 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:24.000 his Labrador retriever. He would pull up on a pull 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:26.880 up on the bank and let his dog jump out 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:29.040 of the boat, and he would watch what his dog 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:32.040 would is a male dog, and he said that dog 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:36.000 would pick the most prominent visual thing that it could see, 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:40.760 whether it was a stump, whether it was a clump 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:43.920 of grass that set out from the rest of the grass, 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:46.600 whether it was a big rock, and he'd go over 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:48.560 and he'd mark it, you know, lift his leg and 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:51.800 pee on it. And he just started watching that dog 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:55.679 and he started setting traps where he saw his dog 0:11:55.920 --> 0:12:02.360 mark and started catching wolves and he so he started 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:06.520 doing That's exactly that's what he called him. And we 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:09.480 didn't have time, you know, the video wasn't like how 0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:11.600 to trap wolves, so we didn't really get into the 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:12.319 technical side. 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:13.199 But what he. 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:17.800 Uses is wolf here in a big, big bottle of 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:21.600 wolf here, and he'll make an artificial scent post. So 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:24.160 he'll go to a beat to a point that he 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:26.400 wants to trap on, and he'll go gather up a 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:28.680 couple of logs. 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:32.480 He's doing this above above the high tide marker, right 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:35.439 in where it's getting submerged at high tide. 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:39.200 Now, most of it's above the high tide mark, even 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:42.680 though that is a strategy, you know, to set it 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:46.520 below the tide mark and it's it's like a drown set, 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:52.760 you know. But most of these he's just catching above the. 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:56.880 The grass or be grass. Yeah, Okay, so he drags 0:12:56.880 --> 0:13:01.439 out whatever, drags out some object to make some visual appeal, 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:02.400 I assume. 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:05.280 Yeah, and then he and then he puts sin all 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:07.560 over it. You know, he puts his he he had 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:13.600 multiple commercial wolf lures, but also this this wolf you'reine 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:20.040 and uh, the biggest thing that I think is different 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:23.719 for those guys in Southeast Alaska that are trapping is 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:27.199 they don't have to worry about human scent. We were 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:29.720 not worried about human scent at all. 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:34.040 Because everything gets wet, just everything gets washed out. 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:40.079 It rains. When you're setting a wolf trap, you're, yeah, 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:43.120 you're it's gonna rain and it's gonna wash away the scent. 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:46.440 And so when the guys in the lower forty eighth 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:50.600 that do some trapping, that's a big concern is how 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:55.200 do you pretty much keep the set scent free. So 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:58.120 you know, they're wearing gloves, they're really concerned about what 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:02.680 you're touching, and and up there he's not at all, 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:05.679 which is makes it makes it convenient. 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:11.160 But his traps, his footholdser dyed and waxed. Correct. Yeah, okay, 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:14.200 so go through making this like scent post set. So 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:18.120 he drags out an object for some visual appeal and 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:21.320 places it out on a point that's. 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:25.800 Right, how big of another? And so we showed it. 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:29.760 We showed a set in the film. There was probably 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:33.320 a stump that was eighteen inches long, or just a 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:35.600 piece of log that was eighteen inches long, kind of 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:38.480 had a big oblong rootball on one side that set 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:42.720 up eighteen inches tall, and we set it out right 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:45.600 out out from the grass in the sand where everything 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:48.480 would see it, and maybe even put another little smaller 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:52.200 four or five inch log on it. And then you know, 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:54.840 you put that scent post in an area where you 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:58.120 can dig easily. That's not rocky, that's sandy. Yeah, And 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:02.320 then we dig down and set just a standard trap set. 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:06.360 I'm not an expert trapper. I've spent a little bit 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:08.920 of time trap and I know how to make dirt 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:11.800 hole sets and catch foxes and coyotes and all this, 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:14.960 and I mean, you know, setting these big traps is 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:18.160 just identical to that. You know, you're you're trying to well, 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:22.960 he uses a drag for his equipment. He's he's using a. 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:25.000 Drag instead of trying trying. 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:29.240 Yeah, and so you have to dig a deep, a 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:32.480 pretty deep hole to bury that big drag. And it 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:35.720 is a big drag. And then you know you're setting 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:38.720 that trap down into a bed where it doesn't wiggle 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:40.840 around and the top of the trap has to be 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:43.400 even almost even with the surface of the ground. 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:46.840 How many inches off the explain how it goes, like 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:50.120 how many inches off the post, because you gotta you're 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:52.560 trying to cut. One of the ways to describe it 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:55.760 is you got the whole world. You know, the animal 0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:58.600 has the whole world, the whole am island whatever to 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:00.480 walk around on, and you're trying to get it to 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:03.680 put its foot on a well. In this case, you're 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:05.640 trying to get it put its foot on a two 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:10.320 inch circle. Right, So if something walks up, if you 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:13.120 picture that, Let's take something that people are more familiar with, 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:18.840 like a coyote. Okay, a kyote's walking down a dirt lane, 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:22.680 walking down a farm trail, whatever, and there's an object 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:24.640 that it wants to piss on. Its feet are gonna 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:27.640 fall in a specific spot. They're not gonna be two 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:30.080 inches off the thing. They're not gonna be thirty inches 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:34.040 off the thing. He's not gonna dance there, he's gonna 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:36.800 come through, raise his leg and leave. What are the 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:39.920 odds that you've put that trappan where it's gonna put 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:44.920 its foot. Yeah, so you're David, You're You're like, you're 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:49.400 you're thinking about foot placement and anatomy when you place it, 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:52.240 because if not you place it wrong, you could have 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:54.480 eight wolves run by. None's gonna put their foot there. 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:58.800 Yeah, you know, I was kind of surprised at how 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:04.800 non technical David's explanation to me of you know, where 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:05.440 to put the trap. 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:08.199 So he's thinking, he's thinking it, but he's not saying it. 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:11.960 Probably well, I think he's just done it so many 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:16.080 times it's just instinctive. But I was expecting them to 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:19.600 have a tape measure and be like the average big 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:23.960 Southeast Alaskan wolf has a stride that's, you know, fourteen 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:26.119 inches long. So if he's sitting here and he's peeing 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:29.040 on that log, he's going to be sixteen inches out 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:33.800 and slightly back because you know he's peeing from the third, 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:35.960 you know, the back third. Yeah, what you know, this 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:40.639 technical nothing. I mean, he's just but probably he was 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:44.200 eighteen inches off of the trap, And I don't think 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:48.720 he was targeting a specific foot. I think he's catching 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:50.400 a lot of them in the front feet when they 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:54.199 come up to sniff the post before they market. You know, 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:56.800 just just an animal just walking up and putting his 0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:59.840 nose on that on that little scent log that we 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:04.399 I don't think he's trying to catch it with a 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:08.360 back leg, you know. So he is not as technical 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:10.720 as I thought it would be. And what you guys, 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:12.760 before he came out, he went out and made a 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:16.679 bunch of sets. Yeah, correct, So he has some sets 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:19.080 out working and then you guys punched in some sets 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:20.720 and did some remakes and stuff like that. 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:24.040 But how many during your time there? And explain the 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:29.959 number of days you spent there? And uh, tell folks 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:36.800 how many traps you checked? Okay? Over what? Over what distance? 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:44.000 We were there for six full days, and in that time, 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:49.160 David was concerned that we might not catch a wolf. 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:53.840 You know, that's how this trapping goes. You might be 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:56.480 there for six days and not catch a wolf. So 0:18:56.640 --> 0:19:01.840 by him setting the traps, you know, the day before 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:03.560 we got there, you know, we kind of got an 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:11.840 extra day. And he has fifty five sets over a 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:15.560 two hundred We mapped it out on on x a 0:19:15.600 --> 0:19:21.280 two hundred mile trap line boat by water. But each 0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:24.280 of those sets might have multiple traps. So he had 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:27.320 two kind of sets. He had p post sets and 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:31.240 what he called bait sets which were set in tide pools, 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:36.600 and basically he would have a chunk of beaver that 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:42.280 was elevated above the low tideline covered in rocks, and 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:45.560 then he would have four traps set under the water, 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:48.800 just set on the ground, not buried even at under 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:52.400 that low tide, there underwater, at low tide, there underwater, 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:56.480 but at low tide or mid tide whatever, the meats 0:19:56.480 --> 0:19:58.320 out of the water, but the traps just buried in 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:04.919 a tide pool or submerged. Correct, that's correct. And so 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:08.320 we had fifty five sets, but each of those sets, 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:11.639 most sets had uh, well, if there were baits that 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:15.320 they had four traps. So it would be easy to 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:18.359 say he had one hundred traps out. Yep, I would 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:20.400 say he had one hundred traps out. 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:23.920 How many had how many out ahead of your arrival? 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:29.879 He had all of them out. He had all of 0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:34.600 them out before we got there. And we actually caught 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:37.840 four wolves on the trip. And you know, it's just 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:44.800 showbiz stuff like we just couldn't we couldn't fit in 0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:51.399 the other two. But we caught We caught one jet 0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:56.280 black wolf, which was cool, and and caught another kind 0:20:56.280 --> 0:20:59.600 of juvenile gray wolf. So we caught four wolves in 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:02.679 a week, which I think that's about what he expected. 0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:05.679 But you can go you can go a week and 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:07.200 not even catch a single animal. 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:12.480 Yeah, you know. Now, A lot of states have checklaws 0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:17.160 twenty four hour check laws, forty eight hour checklaws. Some 0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:23.320 states have checklaws. I should clarify when I'm talking about 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:26.399 a check law meanings like a maximum amount of time 0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:30.719 that you can go without visually inspecting a set, And 0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:34.359 some states just have a flat out check law twenty 0:21:34.400 --> 0:21:37.840 four hours, forty eight hours. Some states have no mention 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:40.959 of a check law, and some states have slightly more 0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:46.120 nuanced check laws where certain sets don't have a check law, 0:21:46.240 --> 0:21:48.520 meaning you might be able to set under the ice 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:53.440 or underwater with kill sets and not have a check law. 0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:57.840 But if you're making sets with footholds dry ground sets 0:21:57.840 --> 0:22:03.040 with footholds, then there is a check law, meaning that one, 0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:06.040 if something goes wrong at your set and you catch 0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:08.480 something that you're not supposed to catch, you're not leaving 0:22:08.480 --> 0:22:11.439 it there too long and you're able to release it. 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:15.119 Two being that when you do make a target catch 0:22:15.440 --> 0:22:17.720 that you're not leaving it in the trap so long 0:22:18.040 --> 0:22:22.960 that it might be regarded by some as being inhumane 0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:25.960 to leave something caught in a trap for an extended 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:32.679 period of time. So to minimize stress, minimize suffering, you 0:22:32.880 --> 0:22:37.960 enforce this check limit. They don't have a check law, 0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:43.240 and he's making somecessities leaving for quite some time. What 0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:46.840 was his perspective on this, that he would leave a 0:22:46.880 --> 0:22:51.080 foothold set for a week and could potentially have a 0:22:51.160 --> 0:22:54.960 catch for a week, because there's two things. One there's 0:22:54.960 --> 0:22:58.960 a consideration of the animals well being, and two there's 0:22:59.000 --> 0:23:02.960 a consideration of you might not hold it forever. It's 0:23:03.000 --> 0:23:05.360 gonna get out, right, the longer it has more, it's 0:23:05.359 --> 0:23:07.399 gonna get out. What was his thinking about this? Is 0:23:07.400 --> 0:23:10.520 it just is it a matter of logistically it's just 0:23:10.560 --> 0:23:14.679 impossible to do it any other way? How did he 0:23:14.720 --> 0:23:16.040 think about that? 0:23:16.040 --> 0:23:18.000 That's a good question, and that was one of the 0:23:18.000 --> 0:23:23.200 first things we talked about. And he when he's trapping, 0:23:23.320 --> 0:23:28.119 that's all he does. Like when he starts trapping, he 0:23:28.320 --> 0:23:32.159 is a twenty four hour a day, seven day a 0:23:32.200 --> 0:23:37.800 week trapper, and in his mind, he had he believes 0:23:37.840 --> 0:23:41.720 he has an ethical responsibility to check those traps. Is 0:23:41.800 --> 0:23:45.280 absolutely as much as he can. But if you were 0:23:45.359 --> 0:23:48.119 there and saw what we were up against with weather, 0:23:48.560 --> 0:23:51.440