Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature future production of I Heart Radio. I'm
Speaker 1: your host of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology
Speaker 1: and evolutionary biology, and today on the show Animals or
Speaker 1: should I say doctor Animals animals who are their own doctors,
Speaker 1: healing themselves with medicine found in nature, from spas crawling
Speaker 1: with ants to chimpanzee pharmacology. World learning that a millipedea
Speaker 1: day can keep the doctor away. Discover this and more
Speaker 1: as we answer the age old question should you replace
Speaker 1: your doctor with a spider? Joining me today is friend
Speaker 1: of the show, co host of Ethnically Ambiguous, and producer
Speaker 1: at iHeart Radio, An A. Hose Ny. Welcome back. Wow,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me. I am an
Speaker 1: animal and a doctor. It's true. I know it. I
Speaker 1: once had a broken arm and and I just kind
Speaker 1: of bited a bit and it actually worked. It's I mean,
Speaker 1: it's still broken, but I'm sure it did something. Thank you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I I really um, I used my web. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the web that comes out of my butt, and I
Speaker 1: ditched you right up or wrapped you right up. Yeah.
Speaker 1: As you know, the web does come out of the button.
Speaker 1: It actually comes from a specific web producing gland called
Speaker 1: a spinneret. But you know, we could just say, but
Speaker 1: and who's gonna Who's gonna stop us? The Spider police?
Speaker 1: Oh god, I hope not. Can you imagine? No, I
Speaker 1: refuse to imagine. I refuse to imagine being arrested by
Speaker 1: the Spider police. I will not have it. Imagine how
Speaker 1: many handcuffs you need though for a spider perp, Just like,
Speaker 1: all right, put your hands behind your back, and those
Speaker 1: hands too, and also those hands and also those hands
Speaker 1: and those hands to Yeah, I mean I think, um,
Speaker 1: you might do better with just a like a lasso
Speaker 1: type sort of like wrap all up over the head
Speaker 1: because bolo, or like an overturned glass and a piece
Speaker 1: of cardboard. That's probably how Spider cops do it. Like
Speaker 1: put them under a piece of glass and put like newspaper,
Speaker 1: stiff stiff paper under it, and then put them outside,
Speaker 1: which is spider jail. Outside of spider jail. Yeah, you're right,
Speaker 1: outside world? Is there jail? They live in a perpetual
Speaker 1: jail until they can get into our homes and be
Speaker 1: safely try sported out right exactly? Well, uh, Spider Justice
Speaker 1: System ASIGN. We are talking about animals today who are
Speaker 1: their own doctors. There, we may think that as humans
Speaker 1: we have a monopoly on medicine and being smart and
Speaker 1: treating ourselves with pharmacology and medicine, and actually it turns
Speaker 1: out that no, we are not unique in this manner.
Speaker 1: In fact, animals have come up with many ways to
Speaker 1: help treat themselves to some medicine, and it can be
Speaker 1: very interesting and counterintuitive. So first we are going to
Speaker 1: talk about a behavior known as anting. Are your kids
Speaker 1: doing aunting? Do you know? Have you seen your kids?
Speaker 1: Have you talked to your kids about aunting? Yes? Just joking.
Speaker 1: I have no idea what it is? Is this when
Speaker 1: a group of ants get together and cause a ruckus? Uh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that's actually called like and and anti rama.
Speaker 1: But aunting is actually the behavior of rubbing ants all
Speaker 1: over your body, and it's a huge trend on TikTok
Speaker 1: I don't actually know. I don't own a TikTok so.
Speaker 1: I assume though, I just assume that anything that has
Speaker 1: any like, any kind of action you could take is
Speaker 1: a trend on TikTok so. Rubbing ants all over your
Speaker 1: body probably a TikTok trend. I assume. Wow, you know, um,
Speaker 1: you're probably right. I do own a TikTok, but I
Speaker 1: have not um scrolled to the like point of no
Speaker 1: return where people are rubbing ants on them. It's there,
Speaker 1: should start it, then you should do it. You'll get Yeah,
Speaker 1: you'll get a lot of ticks. Is that how TikTok works? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's interesting. TikTok get talked a lot. It starts to
Speaker 1: learn what you like very quickly. It's very intelligent. If
Speaker 1: you will, we should all be scared. Yeah. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't tend to stay on like animal well sure pet
Speaker 1: I do, but like animal like further insect related content.
Speaker 1: So it could potentially take me almost a year to
Speaker 1: get to like people covering themselves and ants. I mean
Speaker 1: I think I could probably get there much quicker you
Speaker 1: would get there. Probably in the first swipe they'll be
Speaker 1: like this, lady, my my four me page will just
Speaker 1: be covered with ants. And that's how I like it.
Speaker 1: So aunting is a behavior done by a variety of animals,
Speaker 1: but especially birds those freaks. So certain species of birds
Speaker 1: engage in anting, so rubbing ants all over their feathers
Speaker 1: and skin. They will sometimes pick them up with their
Speaker 1: beaks and rub like an individual ant over a feather,
Speaker 1: or sometimes they roll around and let them walk all
Speaker 1: over their wings if they really just want to get
Speaker 1: the full ant experience, So are they just freaks? Like
Speaker 1: do they just like to do this because you know,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a it's a TikTok trend for birds. No,
Speaker 1: so it is wildly popular among birds. It's thought that
Speaker 1: over two hundred species of birds engage in anting, which
Speaker 1: is astounding. So something is clearly going on. Now I'm
Speaker 1: starting to be like, Okay, if that many birds are
Speaker 1: up to anting, have I ever witnessed this? Or is
Speaker 1: this kind of like a private thing they do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a it's only found in private bird lounges. And
Speaker 1: if you're not a v I a very important avian,
Speaker 1: you are not allowed behind the velvet rope for anting.
Speaker 1: Uh No, I mean if you've ever seen a bird
Speaker 1: preening or a bird rolling around in the dirt, you
Speaker 1: may have witnessed a bird engaging in anting. So the
Speaker 1: theory is that ants release formic acid, which may act
Speaker 1: as a natural anti mite, antibacterial ointment that perhaps helps
Speaker 1: rid the birds of topical parasites or even fungal infections.
Speaker 1: So there's another theory though, that the act of anting
Speaker 1: is actually to prepare the ants for being eaten, so
Speaker 1: by rubbing them all over their feather they encourage the
Speaker 1: ants to release that formic acid and that makes them edible.
Speaker 1: Because if you want to eat an ant and it's
Speaker 1: full of formic acid, that's you know, it's not great.
Speaker 1: It's not a great taste. So it is not exactly
Speaker 1: completely understood which of these theories are correct. But here
Speaker 1: is the forms of anting that birds do. So it
Speaker 1: can range from passive anting where birds will roll around
Speaker 1: in an ant hill, or active anting where a bird
Speaker 1: carefully picks up a single ant with its beak and
Speaker 1: rubs it along a feather. So the birds can be
Speaker 1: extremely particular, only using one ant per feather, and some
Speaker 1: species of birds are impatient and we'll grab like a
Speaker 1: big bundle of ants all at once and rub them
Speaker 1: into their feathers like a big glob of writhing sunscreen.
Speaker 1: So it yeah, it is such a such a common
Speaker 1: behavior and such an interesting behavior among birds that it
Speaker 1: must serve some kind of important purpose for them, even
Speaker 1: if that purpose is just fun. There's a theory that
Speaker 1: anting is just for stimulation. Personally, I think like just like, hey,
Speaker 1: this is a fun like massage, you know, it's it's
Speaker 1: fun to be covered in ants. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you've ever tried it. But no, no, no, that seems
Speaker 1: like a literal nightmare. I don't think that's something I
Speaker 1: could get into for stimulation or any other reason. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, but like if you got if you got
Speaker 1: them on your back, it's like a billion little tiny
Speaker 1: masseus is all, you know, working out those knots and
Speaker 1: your muscles with their mandibles. No, am I not selling this? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know, Katie, I don't don't.
Speaker 1: I don't think I'll ever come around on this one.
Speaker 1: Well I could probably sell this to a bird though,
Speaker 1: because they love it so uh the the the anting.
Speaker 1: My my feeling on this from what I've read is
Speaker 1: it seems like it is a combination of both the
Speaker 1: birds getting the food, being able to basically make these
Speaker 1: ants edible by making them excrete their formic acid, and
Speaker 1: in addition the added perk of the hygiene. So I
Speaker 1: think it's both. I think they are they have found
Speaker 1: a system that gives them both a good scrub down
Speaker 1: and gives them a good snack, which is like being able,
Speaker 1: like using sort of a sugar scrub exfoliant and then
Speaker 1: eating it, which in some sense kind of sounds disgusting,
Speaker 1: but in another sense efficient. I actually, you know what, God,
Speaker 1: if I ever found myself eating an explian scrub h,
Speaker 1: I guess I'm not that above it. I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 1: I'm just not gonna lie. So I'm not gonna say anything.
Speaker 1: If you've never been saying, know how they like put
Speaker 1: those cucumber slices on your eyeballs in a spot. I've
Speaker 1: never been to a spa where they put cucumber slices
Speaker 1: on your face, which seems like I should at some point.
Speaker 1: It seems like that's what you're supposed to do to
Speaker 1: treat yourself, but I would be tempted to eat them.
Speaker 1: Cucumbers are delicious. That feels like like a pop culture
Speaker 1: trope in movies, like when women or men are spas,
Speaker 1: they always take it off and go like, what's the
Speaker 1: cucumbers supposed to do? Right? Like on your eyes? Um?
Speaker 1: Does it make you see better? What I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: assuming I'm actually literally going it. Why I put cucumbers
Speaker 1: on to soothe and reduce puffiness and dark circles on
Speaker 1: the skin. Why cucumbers though, When cucumbers there's some kind
Speaker 1: of like it says when they become dry, cucumbers can
Speaker 1: offer a hydrating effect reducing dryness and redness. Seems like
Speaker 1: you could use any moist vegetable then, right, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I but cucumbers seemed like they're like a miracle veggie,
Speaker 1: isn't it? When they should I get pickled, they become
Speaker 1: a pickle. That is true. They do become pickles when
Speaker 1: they get pickled. Uh, that that that is But I
Speaker 1: assume you can't put pickles on your eyes because that
Speaker 1: seems like that would be burn Yeah, bad for the eyeballs.
Speaker 1: Well in that case, right, yeah, Well, personally I don't
Speaker 1: want to put vegetables on my eyes. That's a personal preference.
Speaker 1: How However, birds do like to double dip in terms
Speaker 1: of using the exfoliating ants as food and vice versa.
Speaker 1: Potentially this is this is the theory I think is
Speaker 1: most most likely because it seems like if you wanted
Speaker 1: to just eat the ants, you wouldn't roll around in
Speaker 1: an ant hill um and there they have been recorded
Speaker 1: eating these ants as well, so we know they do
Speaker 1: eat them after they engage in anting, so I think
Speaker 1: it is probably combination. There is also a theory that
Speaker 1: this formic acid that the ants kind of excrete like
Speaker 1: little tiny tubes of toothpaste, actually also works as a
Speaker 1: shampoo for the birds. It might help them cleanse old
Speaker 1: oil on their wings and help it be replaced with
Speaker 1: new oil, just like when you shampoo your hair, right, which, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't. I'm not saying put a bunch of ants
Speaker 1: in your hair. That is not what I'm not not
Speaker 1: saying it, but legally speaking, I'm not saying. But I'm
Speaker 1: also legally speaking not not saying it. The point is,
Speaker 1: it's your scalp and your choice with respect to ants.
Speaker 1: My choice, my scalp, right, exactly, Sorry, ants, your scalp.
Speaker 1: Is that why birds are so moisturized looking, that they
Speaker 1: have such a healthy sheen? Maybe because they're just rub it,
Speaker 1: they got the ant on them. Yeah, maybe she's born that.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's a bunch of ants. Maybe she's born with it.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's a bunch of ants. Oh my god, you're
Speaker 1: onto something here, Katie. Do you think is there aunt
Speaker 1: shampoo already? If they're so moisturizing, look, it up. Do
Speaker 1: you know what I thank you? You know, I was
Speaker 1: in a beauty store to enhance my beauty and there
Speaker 1: was a shampoo or some kind of thing that had
Speaker 1: like Goat plus Santa in it. I'm gonna say so.
Speaker 1: I've also seen and I did not buy that one.
Speaker 1: I have also seen snail slime moisturizer. I did try that.
Speaker 1: Uh it was I guess moisturizing. I didn't. I think
Speaker 1: it was more moisturizing than just lotion. But the point
Speaker 1: is I wouldn't be terribly surprised if there was some
Speaker 1: kind of like aunt scrub. I'm not out seeing it
Speaker 1: when I look it up. I hesitate to even give
Speaker 1: the cosmetic industry this idea, because you know they're gonna
Speaker 1: start getting ants involved in their schemes to make everyone
Speaker 1: feel insecure, like they have to buy a bunch of
Speaker 1: cosmetic products. It's like, hey, you think you're pretty, No,
Speaker 1: you gotta put ants on your face. Now that's the trend. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it. I do see a lot of
Speaker 1: people complaining that ants got to their sugar scrubs, but
Speaker 1: in their baths. I mean, if you're gonna if you're
Speaker 1: gonna put sugar out there, ants are gonna get to it.
Speaker 1: It's just it's the law. It's the law. It's the law.
Speaker 1: It's the law. So right. So birds don't just rub
Speaker 1: ants all over themselves, the little weirdos. They also rub
Speaker 1: things like millipedes, or they can even use man made
Speaker 1: things that have a toxin in them, like mothballs or
Speaker 1: even cigarette butts, which seems to indicate to me that
Speaker 1: they are definitely trying to do some kind of grooming. Now, obviously,
Speaker 1: cigarette butts are not ideal, nor are mothballs, but they
Speaker 1: are both somewhat toxic to MIT's other parasites of fungus,
Speaker 1: so it seems like the birds are engaging in a
Speaker 1: behavior where they are doing some form of grooming. Now.
Speaker 1: I don't know if the birds do eat the cigarette
Speaker 1: butts after they wipe themselves down with it, but I
Speaker 1: certainly hope not because that would be bad for their health.
Speaker 1: Why the cigarette butts? Now, I don't know too much
Speaker 1: about cigarettes because I'm a good girl and I don't
Speaker 1: smoke because I listened in elementary school and they told
Speaker 1: me just say no. So I don't really know what
Speaker 1: chemical is in cigarettes that be bad for the for
Speaker 1: the topical mites or fungus, but I'm assuming they're generally
Speaker 1: toxic they have that. I mean, the ash might help
Speaker 1: as well, because it's a descant. It's very dry. Actually,
Speaker 1: I think originally soap is like fat mixed with ash
Speaker 1: can form a soap sort of acidic scrub. So I
Speaker 1: could see how cigarette ash might actually be that's mixed
Speaker 1: in with the bird's oils and its feathers. It may
Speaker 1: create some kind of like more or sorry, not acidic,
Speaker 1: I think, a basic scrub, and so that may have
Speaker 1: some kind of shampooing effect. Again legally speaking. Morally speaking,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying you should rub yourself down with cigarette
Speaker 1: butts actually don't do that, and I don't think birds
Speaker 1: should do it either. It's just that when we put
Speaker 1: a bunch of garbage in the world, birds are going
Speaker 1: to try to use that garbage. It's you know, that's
Speaker 1: how it is. Question is a part of it also
Speaker 1: that it helps add a kind of a smell that
Speaker 1: could potentially throw off a predators sin. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: an interesting idea. Birds don't have a great sense of smell,
Speaker 1: but I mean certainly predators of birds do, so things like, um,
Speaker 1: I mean anything from domestic cats to you know, snakes
Speaker 1: probably do have I mean, snakes have a chemosensory organ
Speaker 1: that they could and that's why they flick out their tongues.
Speaker 1: But birds don't have a great sense of smell, so
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if the birds would like be able
Speaker 1: to sniff out whether that thing would help them get
Speaker 1: rid of a smell. But it could be, right, Like,
Speaker 1: it could be that by rubbing themselves down with something,
Speaker 1: it could throw off or deter predators. I haven't actually
Speaker 1: seen that theory, but it's not a bad idea. I
Speaker 1: feel like I've I've heard that somewhere, probably your show
Speaker 1: about something I don't know. Isn't that what they do?
Speaker 1: Like if there's certain like I actually don't. I just
Speaker 1: don't really know where I got that from, But I
Speaker 1: feel like it isn't that like dogs or cats will
Speaker 1: like rub themselves on weird ship for that reason. That's true. Yeah,
Speaker 1: cats will, I mean scenting like rolling around in certain
Speaker 1: sense is very common with with dogs, and cats will
Speaker 1: certainly like mark you with their scent. You know, when
Speaker 1: they like rub up against you, they are they're marking
Speaker 1: you as their property. And so yeah, no, it's it's
Speaker 1: it's birds kind of live less of a nasal life
Speaker 1: than say a dog. A dog lives a very smell
Speaker 1: smelly life. A lot of their cognition is based on smells,
Speaker 1: whereas with birds not so much. It's more based on
Speaker 1: vision or hearing. But that's not to say that they
Speaker 1: couldn't sort of chance into like, hey, we gotta when
Speaker 1: we do this, maybe they they have association of Maybe
Speaker 1: they're by changing their odor using sort of some um
Speaker 1: part of their environment that could deter predators. But that's
Speaker 1: also actually a reason you may have heard like you
Speaker 1: shouldn't touch a baby bird because if you get your
Speaker 1: smell on it, the mother is going to reject it.
Speaker 1: That's absolutely not true. You shouldn't touch a fledgling because
Speaker 1: if you see a bird that has a good amount
Speaker 1: of feathers on it, but it's kind of like it
Speaker 1: looks sort of like a baby, but it it's fully feathered,
Speaker 1: that means it's a fledgling and probably just learning how
Speaker 1: to fly. But if you see a nestling where it's
Speaker 1: you know, there's like very awkward looking nude little birds
Speaker 1: without many feathers, you can't pick it up, and if
Speaker 1: you pick it up and put it back in its nest,
Speaker 1: that's perfectly fine. Just wash your hands afterwards. Yeah, I've
Speaker 1: heard so much of if you touch this animal, it's
Speaker 1: family will abandon it and you will have become a
Speaker 1: person who has created orphans with and the animal kingdom,
Speaker 1: and you are a bad person. So how could you
Speaker 1: that little baby bird had or animal now have to
Speaker 1: survive on its own and you've ruined its life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of misconceptions about that. Generally speaking, animals
Speaker 1: will not abandon their young just based on like catching
Speaker 1: a whiff of human on them. I mean there. I
Speaker 1: think like some of the myth may come from a
Speaker 1: misunderstanding of what's happening. Sometimes people will find like a
Speaker 1: baby bird and they will put it back in the nest,
Speaker 1: and then it'll fall out again, and they think, oh,
Speaker 1: that's because it's mother is rejecting it because I touched it.
Speaker 1: It's like, No, it could be that it's sibling is
Speaker 1: pushing it out, which happens with some bird species. It
Speaker 1: could be that it's there's something wrong with it. Um.
Speaker 1: So yeah, but it's not your smell. You you being
Speaker 1: smelling is not causing the problem this time, so question yes, okay,
Speaker 1: well I'm curious where that started, like the whole they'll
Speaker 1: abandon you, and does that mean that the fact that
Speaker 1: it's not true that animals are more loving of their
Speaker 1: children than it appears. So with birds, it's certainly not
Speaker 1: true because bird's sense of smell is just not great.
Speaker 1: They have one, they have a sense of smell, but
Speaker 1: it's not it's they don't really, it's not that sensitive.
Speaker 1: And certainly a whiff of person on their chick is
Speaker 1: not going to make them abandon their chick. And in general,
Speaker 1: while there are a lot of species of animals that
Speaker 1: do you sent to detect their offspring, there is not.
Speaker 1: I don't think generally they will reject their offspring just
Speaker 1: because they smell. They have like a human smell on them.
Speaker 1: Now I'm not sure, like if you could completely replace
Speaker 1: their smell with something utterly foreign and have no remaining smell,
Speaker 1: So like say you take a puppy and dogs are
Speaker 1: very smell based and you replaced its smell entirely with
Speaker 1: a completely foreign, strange smell like formalde hide what should
Speaker 1: be horrible. Don't do that, God, do not do that.
Speaker 1: Then maybe like that would not like the mother might
Speaker 1: find that off and strange enough that they may abandon it,
Speaker 1: but generally speaking, they're not like just because there's like
Speaker 1: a little bit of a weird smell on it, They're
Speaker 1: not going to be like, oh, screw you, baby, You're
Speaker 1: you're done, you're fired, You're fired as my baby. But
Speaker 1: there are things that can happen, like with baby dear fons,
Speaker 1: their mothers will sometimes leave them in a location and
Speaker 1: the fonds will curl up in a little ball and
Speaker 1: just hide there while the mom goes off to forage.
Speaker 1: And you shouldn't move a baby fon like that generally speaking,
Speaker 1: because the mom is going to come back, and I
Speaker 1: think like if you move it and you try to
Speaker 1: like take it in, then the mom might just assume
Speaker 1: it's it's gone and leave and not be reunited with it.
Speaker 1: So there's some some truth to that, Like you shouldn't
Speaker 1: always interfere when you see a baby animal. Should definitely like,
Speaker 1: if you see a baby animal, the best thing to
Speaker 1: do is sort of consult your local rehabilitation wildlife rehabilitation center.
Speaker 1: They'll know what to do because it can be very difficult,
Speaker 1: very tricky to take care of a baby animal. But yeah,
Speaker 1: in general, animal parents invest so much in their offspring.
Speaker 1: They're not just gonna abandon them at the drop of
Speaker 1: a hat. God, I really hope so, because it's such
Speaker 1: a devastating concept to think that you could be abandoned
Speaker 1: because of a scent. Scent of a woman. Wow, if
Speaker 1: you're too stinky, nobody, nobody will like you. That's horrible. No, look,
Speaker 1: you know you can be stinky. It's fine. There's somebody
Speaker 1: out there who's gonna like that stink, you know. I
Speaker 1: mean people like weird stinky cheese, So they're gonna like
Speaker 1: stinky people, right. That tracks Anyways, I do want to
Speaker 1: mention before we move on that primates also engage in aunting.
Speaker 1: So the tufted capuchin monkey does like to rub themselves
Speaker 1: with ants, just like birds do, but they put a
Speaker 1: little twist on it, and that twist is urine. Of course,
Speaker 1: they will combine ants and urine in a to die
Speaker 1: for body scrub that I think Lush is selling right now,
Speaker 1: just telling him, you know, go go to Lush. Don't
Speaker 1: do this because they're not actually sponsoring this. But the
Speaker 1: joke that I'm telling is, go to Lush and inter
Speaker 1: Creature for a coupon off of the urine ants scrub,
Speaker 1: which is a joke. Don't actually, that's not I'm not
Speaker 1: being sponsored. So I go to Lush and I get
Speaker 1: this kind of creature scrub. I don't take any advice. Okay,
Speaker 1: I know what you're saying. Hey, Lush, if you want
Speaker 1: to sponsor the podcast, you know, look, I'm sure a
Speaker 1: bunch of people just went to your website desperate for
Speaker 1: that ant monkey urine body scrub. So some species of capuchin,
Speaker 1: such as the wedge capped capuchin, use millipedes who secrete
Speaker 1: toxic substance called benzo quinone, which is an insect repellent.
Speaker 1: So the millipedes are such a popular skincare treatment that
Speaker 1: these capuchins will actually share a single millipedes, so they'll
Speaker 1: rub it over and then pass it on to another
Speaker 1: capuchin who will rub it all over their body. It's
Speaker 1: like you've ever been to the club. You guys are
Speaker 1: like sharing body glitter. This is not I'm sorry, I
Speaker 1: don't do that. I'm just trying to imagine the life
Speaker 1: of someone cool, and I would imagine it would be
Speaker 1: going to the club and sharing body glitter. I've never
Speaker 1: done that. Is that a thing people do? Is that
Speaker 1: a thing cool people do? I mean, I feel like
Speaker 1: I knew people in college at the height of the
Speaker 1: Kesha era that we're doing a lot of body glitter
Speaker 1: doing it. Yeah, I know it's everywhere doing body doing hard,
Speaker 1: hard body glitter. But I was a good girl and
Speaker 1: I just said now to body glitter because that's what
Speaker 1: I was taught in elementary school. So it's it's interesting
Speaker 1: because just like body glitter, there can be a downside
Speaker 1: to these remedies that these monkeys used. So white faced Capuchins,
Speaker 1: so they will often use a combination of plants and
Speaker 1: mud that works as an insect repellent. But if they
Speaker 1: cover too many of their features with the mud, their
Speaker 1: friends won't recognize them and they will become unfriendly and aggressive.
Speaker 1: So that is one of the dangerous of body glitter.
Speaker 1: If you use too much, your your friends are not
Speaker 1: going to recognize you at the club. They're gonna be
Speaker 1: blinded and they're gonna attack you. And you know, Capuchin's
Speaker 1: it's the same thing, cap cap puchins. Sorry say Capuchin's captions.
Speaker 1: I say it both capucheons, Yeah, kucheons. I don't know,
Speaker 1: making me think of cappuccino. Well, I don't know the
Speaker 1: etymology of cappuccino. Maybe it's the same, but they're the
Speaker 1: capuchins are based on the compuchion monks because they monkeys
Speaker 1: kind of look like they've got a little little little
Speaker 1: monk hairstyle. Yeah, I'm always uh the excretion, that excretion.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm really into skincare, and like I always
Speaker 1: see like really really surreal. I don't know, I it's
Speaker 1: not even surreal. You're pretty desensitized to it because you
Speaker 1: never know what's real. They're just like putting words on
Speaker 1: a bottle to make you spend more money. Dimetic couple
Speaker 1: lozzi zone can than Yeah, but don't be like this.
Speaker 1: This has like squaling in it or even like what
Speaker 1: you said about like the what is it the the
Speaker 1: what do they call it? The snail snail Like yeah,
Speaker 1: like yes, snail slime. This has this is prawn milk
Speaker 1: in it and it exfoliates your ribosomes. Yeah, Like squaling
Speaker 1: comes from like I looked it up. It's it's originally
Speaker 1: obtained from shark liver oil. What it's pretty so real,
Speaker 1: like the kind of things that come from animals that
Speaker 1: we can put on our face to look gorgeous, to
Speaker 1: look good. Yeah, it worries me sometimes on account of
Speaker 1: I don't like the exploitation of nature. I do imagine though,
Speaker 1: like if you just rubbed your face on a live shark,
Speaker 1: it would be very exfoliating because sharks. Shark skin is
Speaker 1: very sandpapery because of these microscopic structures called denticles, which
Speaker 1: are like these teeth like structures on it. So the
Speaker 1: snake skin is very rough or sorry, the shark skin
Speaker 1: is very rough. So not again legally speaking, not recommending
Speaker 1: you rub your face on a shark, but it would
Speaker 1: be very exfoliating. Although if the shark got mad and
Speaker 1: it actually bit you, that would be like maybe too exfoliating.
Speaker 1: My insides would be explod Finally, no, my organs the
Speaker 1: ultimate exfoliation. My organs getting very exfoliated by these shark teeth. Yeah, gosh,
Speaker 1: I guess I'm curious what I'll start these animals excreening
Speaker 1: that I could put on my face. Well, maybe we'll
Speaker 1: find out after the break. That was a great transition,
Speaker 1: so Anna, I did say I was going to tell
Speaker 1: you more about things you can smear on your face,
Speaker 1: but I lied to you. Now we're going to talk
Speaker 1: about things you can eat and have go inside of
Speaker 1: your body and do magical things. Legally speaking, don't do
Speaker 1: any of this. All of you out there, I know,
Speaker 1: like this stuff I'm going to talk about is very tempting.
Speaker 1: That you're going to go out to where these animals live,
Speaker 1: find these plants and then try to eat them. But don't.
Speaker 1: Don't do it. That's what the lawyer says. And you
Speaker 1: got to listen to the lawyer. He says, don't do it.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just feel like I should do it.
Speaker 1: That is your choice that I had no pardon. So
Speaker 1: chimpanzee ease pretty smart, right, But are they smart to
Speaker 1: make their own medicine? Yes they are. Sorry, I kinda
Speaker 1: I guess that's I spoiled it, but yes they are.
Speaker 1: So chimpanzees create their own time release capsules. So I
Speaker 1: I know about chimpanzee intelligence. I mean, like I'm not,
Speaker 1: you know, Jane Goodall, but I'm quite aware of how
Speaker 1: smart they are. But this surprised me. This seems just insane,
Speaker 1: incredibly smart. So chimpanzees will carefully select the leaves of
Speaker 1: the Aspilia flower and instead of just eating them like normal,
Speaker 1: they will roll them around in their mouths until they
Speaker 1: form a pill and swallow them whole. So they will
Speaker 1: do this sometimes up to thirty times over to minute period,
Speaker 1: which when researchers noticed this, it's like, well, okay, this
Speaker 1: has to be something that there has to be some
Speaker 1: significance to this because they're wild about it. And it
Speaker 1: turns out that the leaves have an oil in it
Speaker 1: that works as an antibiotic and could help kill harmful
Speaker 1: gut bacteria. And the most interesting part about this is
Speaker 1: that they don't just eat the leaves hole. They don't
Speaker 1: just like chew up the leaves and eat them. Uh.
Speaker 1: The fact that they roll them into pills means that
Speaker 1: they don't get digested immediately, so they don't get all
Speaker 1: broken up inside their tommies. The leaves actually go through
Speaker 1: their gut partially undigested, so that antibiotic oil is released
Speaker 1: in the digestive tract rather than all in the stomach,
Speaker 1: and this may help alleviate intestinal distress and cramping, which
Speaker 1: is I mean, it's it's bonkers. I don't even know, like,
Speaker 1: how does any I don't want to get science sometimes
Speaker 1: or like insect life, Like, what is happening having these
Speaker 1: are chimpanzees. I don't want to clarify the insects I
Speaker 1: call them. Sorry, I don't know why I said insect
Speaker 1: I just met animals in general and said insects because
Speaker 1: that's what my brain is at. I do love insects. Um,
Speaker 1: so you know, and we are going to talk about
Speaker 1: we are going to talk about actually questions since we're sorry,
Speaker 1: I don't I always think insects when I'm talking to you.
Speaker 1: But when okay, because I'm going to take it as
Speaker 1: with the chimpanzees. Um, if we are not or I mean,
Speaker 1: if we are not, I mean like evolutioniary we come
Speaker 1: from a little evolution. I literally, yeah, evolution, we come
Speaker 1: from primates. Is this something we lost along the way?
Speaker 1: The ability to make medicine? Have you ever been to
Speaker 1: a doctor? I mean, I guess, but I guess. Is
Speaker 1: my body like still continuing to do that? I don't know.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing, Katie, I don't know what's going on
Speaker 1: in my body because I compartmentalized. I can't. I don't
Speaker 1: have the time to think about these things. I mean,
Speaker 1: like the fact, I mean we didn't evolve from chimpanzees.
Speaker 1: They're a cousin basically of ours. We have a common ancestor.
Speaker 1: But the fact that chimpanzees seem to be able to
Speaker 1: create a medicine for themselves, uh, does make it a
Speaker 1: little more understandable how we have been like as a
Speaker 1: species of private that has become even more I mean
Speaker 1: this is that like our red blood cell, red red
Speaker 1: blood cells, Like how our red blood cells will come
Speaker 1: and like cover a scab or something. Is that like
Speaker 1: creating this And I'm sorry, I'm so dumb. It's I
Speaker 1: mean that is that is our bodies healing on a
Speaker 1: microscopic level, and it doesn't have much to do with
Speaker 1: our behavior, but the it's the fact that these chimpanzees
Speaker 1: seem to But probably they're consuming these leaves because and
Speaker 1: doing it in this specific way because they have learned
Speaker 1: over many years that this feels the best. So like
Speaker 1: they maybe they'll have some cramping or tummy upset, and
Speaker 1: they have learned that when they swallow these like roll
Speaker 1: these leaves up into a ball and swallow them whole,
Speaker 1: that it actually makes their tummies feel better, which is incredible,
Speaker 1: and it does make it a lot clearer how humans
Speaker 1: have been able to innovate so much in such a
Speaker 1: short period of time because we have human kind has
Speaker 1: only been around for uh you know, like we we've
Speaker 1: we're basically a flash and the pan compared to a
Speaker 1: lot of other species who have been around many more
Speaker 1: millions of years than we have. But yeah, the fact
Speaker 1: that chimpanzees can come up with this method of being
Speaker 1: able to create these pills, then it's like, Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: chimpanzees are really smart. So humans being able to create
Speaker 1: modern medicine that kind of makes sense. And in fact,
Speaker 1: actually humans have used the same leaves that these chimpanzees use,
Speaker 1: the S. A. S. Billia leaves uh for some similar purpose.
Speaker 1: In central and eastern tropical Africa, it has been used
Speaker 1: for stomach aches, minstrel cramps, and malaria. And what's it
Speaker 1: really interesting is that, like humans obviously discovered the positive
Speaker 1: effects of this plant on minstrel cramps and chimpanzees. It
Speaker 1: seems that females actually consume this plant more than males do,
Speaker 1: and chimpanzees, being related primates, are one of the only
Speaker 1: other animals that minstroid like humans do. Yeah, so they're like,
Speaker 1: got a cramp, better eat the leaves. Also is this
Speaker 1: is kind of like holistic medicine, right, yeah, yeah, And
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I'm a big proponent of of
Speaker 1: science and medicine, but there are a lot of medicines
Speaker 1: out there that come you know, come from nature, that
Speaker 1: are effective. It's just I think like it's tricky because
Speaker 1: the world of holistic medicine often kind of praise upon
Speaker 1: some not being kind of naive, right, so they'll try
Speaker 1: to sell you something that is essentially snake oil that
Speaker 1: doesn't work. But that doesn't mean that there aren't things
Speaker 1: out there that. I mean, a lot of our medicine
Speaker 1: actually originated from the natural world, like aspir and I
Speaker 1: believe originated from tree like a tree bark kind of chemical.
Speaker 1: So so there are a lot of things in the
Speaker 1: natural world that that can work is medicine. Uh and
Speaker 1: and you know, but it it is too bad because
Speaker 1: I think that a lot of that has become watered
Speaker 1: down by basically like if someone is trying to sell
Speaker 1: you something like sell you like some kind of natural remedy,
Speaker 1: and they don't have to prove to you that it works,
Speaker 1: then it you know, it's just kind of a it
Speaker 1: can be difficult to find things that are actually tested
Speaker 1: and actually do work. Do you think chimpanzees are anti vacs?
Speaker 1: Is my question? Yeah, you know, I'd like to say no,
Speaker 1: But those little rascals I could also see them. I mean,
Speaker 1: like they like to throw their own poops, So I'm
Speaker 1: not going to say they don't necessarily go on Facebook,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Oh, yeah, you're yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right. I mean I don't even. I guess it's
Speaker 1: hard to say with an animal or primate to be like,
Speaker 1: are they anti VAXX just because they eat leaves that
Speaker 1: heal their tummy aches? Yeah, I mean, one hand, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean again, like, chimpanzees did not
Speaker 1: invent Facebook, so it seems a little unfair to pin
Speaker 1: this all on them, uh because like, if they invented Facebook,
Speaker 1: it would probably be mostly more based on smelling each
Speaker 1: other's like but and stuff like that, so which would
Speaker 1: be an improvement. I think. Sorry, I was just imagining
Speaker 1: a chimpanzee Facebook page. Uh, yeah, me too all the time.
Speaker 1: If I came across a chimpanzees profile on Facebook, I
Speaker 1: don't think I would be that shocked. And I was
Speaker 1: also thinking this is a slight tangent, but like, and
Speaker 1: this is also maybe a dad joke, and so I
Speaker 1: don't actually apologize. I'm not sorry for it, but I
Speaker 1: am going to say it would Facebook for dogs be
Speaker 1: like butt book Facebook for dogs, because you're just sniffing butts,
Speaker 1: right exactly, Yeah, that's you know, that'd be better anyways.
Speaker 1: So maybe, like, lest you think that medicine is something
Speaker 1: that only a smart animal like a chimp can figure out,
Speaker 1: even a dumb little caterpillar can engage in a bit
Speaker 1: of pharmacology. So this is really interesting because it is
Speaker 1: pointing towards the use of natural medicine as being something
Speaker 1: that doesn't require a lot of cognition but could just
Speaker 1: evolve in an animal's instincts, like something like a caterpillar.
Speaker 1: So you may be aware if you are a listener
Speaker 1: of the show that caterpillars, those poor gooey little babies,
Speaker 1: often contend with some real nasty parasites, So you may
Speaker 1: know of things like parasitoid wasps who lay their eggs
Speaker 1: inside out of caterpillars and then all of these larva
Speaker 1: burst out of the poor larva in the hundreds like
Speaker 1: some kind of pinata designed by Ridley Scott. It's horrifying.
Speaker 1: Caterpillars are very vulnerable to parasites, and so it is
Speaker 1: reasonable that natural selection would favor caterpillars who build defenses
Speaker 1: against parasites and wooly bear caterpillars who are found in
Speaker 1: the United States in southern Canada. They're adult form is
Speaker 1: a tiger moth. Well, these wooly bear caterpillars will eat
Speaker 1: toxic plants when they have parasites, which seems to be
Speaker 1: the caterpillars instinctive way to rid themselves of potentially deadly
Speaker 1: indo parasites of parasites that are inside of them. So
Speaker 1: the technid fly will lay its eggs into the poor
Speaker 1: caterpillar's body and this can be lethal as the fly
Speaker 1: larva will take over the caterpillar's body. And researchers found
Speaker 1: that wooly bear caterpillars will eat plants that contain a
Speaker 1: toxic alkaloid more when they have a parasite. So when
Speaker 1: they eat this and they're not parasitized, it can actually
Speaker 1: be a bad thing. So like too much of this
Speaker 1: alkaloid plant actually will hurt the caterpillar. But when they
Speaker 1: have a parasite, they will eat as much as they
Speaker 1: can without actually hurt harming themselves, because it is worth
Speaker 1: the potential harm that the alkaloid is having on the
Speaker 1: caterpillar to get rid of the parasite. It's sort of
Speaker 1: like how chemotherapy works in humans, where it's not an
Speaker 1: ideal treatment for someone because it hurts your own body,
Speaker 1: but the cancer is bad enough that it is worth
Speaker 1: the cost of using that that chemotherapy. So the fact
Speaker 1: that caterpillars have this figure it out, that they will
Speaker 1: eat this toxic plant to get rid of this parasite
Speaker 1: is really incredible. That is I mean, how do they
Speaker 1: I like never understand like how an animal, insect being
Speaker 1: and I guess not human being can eat something toxic
Speaker 1: and survive. But it's yeah, chemicals are fascinating to me.
Speaker 1: I didn't do well in chemistry, so I don't fully
Speaker 1: understand like like why certain things are toxic for like
Speaker 1: pets like dogs, but not for us humans you know. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: So that's really interesting. So something that is toxic, right,
Speaker 1: you can eat something that's toxic and it might not
Speaker 1: necessarily hurt you or it might kill you. Technically, alcohol
Speaker 1: is sort of somewhat toxic, but we can have that
Speaker 1: and moderate amounts responsible amounts um if you're an adult
Speaker 1: of legal drinking age. So this is such a like
Speaker 1: rules following podcast. I know, I know, I do have
Speaker 1: a lawyer that's constantly whispering in my ear, like you
Speaker 1: cannot tell them to eat their own poop. You cannot
Speaker 1: do that. A lot of nose, A lot of nose
Speaker 1: coming from my lawyer. But so that is a really
Speaker 1: interesting question. So like why are things like toxic to
Speaker 1: some animals and not to others, Well, it can have
Speaker 1: to do with the So basically like uh, say, something
Speaker 1: like chocolate is toxic for dogs but not for humans.
Speaker 1: Usually comes down to the dogs having different structures in
Speaker 1: their cells where something from chocolate will maybe bind to
Speaker 1: a receptor or bind to something on a dog's cell,
Speaker 1: but not a humans. That will cause problems for the
Speaker 1: dog but not for a human. Yeah, it's it usually
Speaker 1: comes down to microbiology. So like whether a molecule, because
Speaker 1: like the way that like toxins will interact with the butt,
Speaker 1: which we're actually going to talk about in the next section,
Speaker 1: is often down to this molecular level. Well, it's always
Speaker 1: down to this molecular level where it may bind to
Speaker 1: something or interfere with some microscopic process, and when that
Speaker 1: is done on a large scale, it really messes you up.
Speaker 1: So like, for instance, you can have some soy sauce
Speaker 1: um and it's fine, it's actually delicious. But if you
Speaker 1: try to drink a whole bottle of soy sauce, you
Speaker 1: can die because that's yes, because that's way too much salt.
Speaker 1: And the salt, that amount of salt can interfere with
Speaker 1: the ion channels in your brain. And something else can
Speaker 1: actually interfere with the ion channels in your brain. And uh,
Speaker 1: we're actually going to talk about that after the break.
Speaker 1: A whole bottle of soy sauce incredible. Well, have you
Speaker 1: been bitten by a funnel web spider? I don't. You
Speaker 1: would probably know, you know, I don't think so. So
Speaker 1: I want to talk about a few things the ion
Speaker 1: channels in the brain, which don't worry. Sounds sounds scary
Speaker 1: to talk about, but it'll all be clear soon. It
Speaker 1: all has to do with soy sauce. It actually doesn't
Speaker 1: have too much. It's marginally related to soy sauce. Basically,
Speaker 1: sometimes humans have to learn from animal biology to develop
Speaker 1: our own medicine, and sometimes from the most surprising sources.
Speaker 1: So when we think of something like spider venom, it
Speaker 1: seems like absolutely bad news and something that should be
Speaker 1: avoided at all costs. Turning spider venom into medicine, especially
Speaker 1: the venom of deadly spiders such as that of the
Speaker 1: funnel web spider, seems kind of irresponsible, but it's actually responsible.
Speaker 1: Is wait, no, no? Sorry? Responsible? Responsible? Responsible? Is that
Speaker 1: like in the middle of your responsible and responsible is like, well,
Speaker 1: I guess that's responsible. You know, it's not like responsible,
Speaker 1: but it's not irresponsible. You know, eating a cookie. It's
Speaker 1: not irresponsible, but it's not responsible, So it's responsible responsible anyways,
Speaker 1: so venoms, the very thing that makes funnel web spider
Speaker 1: venom deadly, may actually save lives. So Venoms often work
Speaker 1: by interfering with the functioning of cells, including brain cells,
Speaker 1: by messing with ion channels. So this is something that
Speaker 1: I we were just talking about with like why you
Speaker 1: shouldn't chuck soy sauce, And the way that things can
Speaker 1: be toxic is that one of the ways is it
Speaker 1: will mess with ion channels and cells. So ion channels
Speaker 1: are structures along the membranes of cells that allow for
Speaker 1: the flow of sodium ions in and out of the cell.
Speaker 1: So I Matt, it's just basically like a gate keeper.
Speaker 1: It's like, hey, you're sodium ion. Maybe you'll come in,
Speaker 1: maybe you can go out, but that gate is that
Speaker 1: channel is determining whether you go in and out of
Speaker 1: the cell. And in the brain, sodium ion channels can
Speaker 1: control the activation of neurons, so you will have it's
Speaker 1: basically I mean, it's just basically Domino's effect where you
Speaker 1: will have a Domino's effect of uh, sodium ion channels
Speaker 1: that will end up triggering the neuron to fire. So
Speaker 1: have you ever seen, like on YouTube or wherever, one
Speaker 1: of these things where people will set up a bunch
Speaker 1: of dominoes and then sort of these like miss like
Speaker 1: a Rube Goldberg machine, where like it hits a domino
Speaker 1: and then that hits a marble and that goes down
Speaker 1: a ramp and that hits a thing. That's essentially how
Speaker 1: I mean, they're mesmerizing, and that's essentially how sales work.
Speaker 1: It's I mean, like when you look at these diagrams
Speaker 1: of like how sales work, it can be very intimidating,
Speaker 1: but essentially it's just a marble hitting a ramp hitting
Speaker 1: another thing. But these are molecules interacting. So when you
Speaker 1: are bitten by something that has a venom that interferes
Speaker 1: with ion channel functioning, this can be very bad because
Speaker 1: it can interfere with your brain functioning or self functioning,
Speaker 1: which can be bad for the body or even deadly.
Speaker 1: But and this is a huge butt, being able to
Speaker 1: manipulate ion channel functioning could actually have a positive use
Speaker 1: for human health, especially in the case of stroke. So,
Speaker 1: you know how he's talking about, how like the ion channel.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like it let's sodium ions in and
Speaker 1: out of the cell. There are certain ion channels that
Speaker 1: will actually detect the acidity in the brain, the peach
Speaker 1: level and the brain. And so being able to manipulate
Speaker 1: uh self functioning can be really useful in medicine because
Speaker 1: sometimes something traumatic will happen to the body that your
Speaker 1: cells aren't really prepared for. So like the normal functioning
Speaker 1: of the cell suddenly becomes a danger to your body.
Speaker 1: So this is something that can happen during stroke or
Speaker 1: traumatic brain injury where your brain is suddenly like has
Speaker 1: a massive brain bleed, UH, and your cells will respond
Speaker 1: in a way that may actually cause more damage and
Speaker 1: they don't realize that they're just functioning how a cell
Speaker 1: is supposed to function. But they do not they have
Speaker 1: no capacity to realize like, oh, hey, this is a
Speaker 1: stroke situation. We shouldn't be acting this way, and so
Speaker 1: using spider venom that interferes with the functioning of brain
Speaker 1: cells normally a bad thing. I'm not saying you should
Speaker 1: let yourself get bitten in the face by a funnel
Speaker 1: web spider. Don't do that. Uh So, I mean, if
Speaker 1: you live in Australia, you probably already know that this
Speaker 1: is where these guys are from. It seems like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like a good bet anytime, uh there's like a
Speaker 1: deadly spider or something Australia. I think I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: put that out there. But so they are. Yeah, Australia.
Speaker 1: I love you guys, I really do. You have some
Speaker 1: of the most amazing animals, But I it is like,
Speaker 1: and I love spiders, but god damn, Australia, your spiders
Speaker 1: are something else. I have some cousins in Australia that
Speaker 1: we're supposed to go visit. My dad always goes you
Speaker 1: want to go to Australia where the animals will kill
Speaker 1: you in the streets. I'm like, well, I don't think
Speaker 1: it's what my dad always says that. And I'm always like,
Speaker 1: I don't know what you think Australia is like, but
Speaker 1: he might happen animals will just kill you in the streets.
Speaker 1: I don't think that generally happens now. Funnel web spiders
Speaker 1: do live in Australia. There are They are burrowing spiders.
Speaker 1: They are kind of meaty spiders. They're not the hugest
Speaker 1: spiders I've ever seen there, you know, they kind of
Speaker 1: like maybe fit in your palm, but they're kind of meaty,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like, they're bulky, and they
Speaker 1: can be deadly to humans. They have venom that have
Speaker 1: the capacity to capacity to kill a human. However, we
Speaker 1: have anti venom and treatments that make them not fatal.
Speaker 1: So it's typically speaking, people do not die from funnel
Speaker 1: love spiders bites, which is good. And so your dad
Speaker 1: can go to Australia, you know, Yeah, let's clip this
Speaker 1: and send it to him because he's weird about Australia. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and these spiders actually may have a wonderful use for
Speaker 1: medicine in addition to just being cool spiders. I think
Speaker 1: spiders are great. Just because they're a little scary does
Speaker 1: mean we should hate them and try to burn them
Speaker 1: all down. They're they're they're cool guys. They're just living
Speaker 1: their lives. We should let them, let them, let them
Speaker 1: live their little spider lives happily. But they do. Their
Speaker 1: venom could offer us some really interesting breakthroughs in medicine.
Speaker 1: So there is a specific chemical found in the funnel
Speaker 1: Web spider that could potentially help treat strokes. So this
Speaker 1: molecule is called h I one a, which kind of
Speaker 1: when I look at it looks like HIA. So I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna call it the high a molecule like HIA,
Speaker 1: the Howdy molecule. Uh. It is a molecule found in
Speaker 1: the spider's venom, and it may actually help shield neurons
Speaker 1: from damage after blood loss during a stroke or traumatic
Speaker 1: brain injury. And so I will explain how this happens. Now,
Speaker 1: I am not necessarily a molecular biologist and all no,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say I'm definitely not a molecular biletist. I
Speaker 1: think I would know, and I'm not, But I will
Speaker 1: try to explain this. It is basically, there are ion
Speaker 1: channels in urns, the these cells in your brain that
Speaker 1: help you think good UM, and these ion channels that
Speaker 1: are in your neurons can detect they're they're called acid
Speaker 1: sensing ion channels. Basically, the way these these channels are
Speaker 1: controlled as whether they sense a drop in uh pH
Speaker 1: of acidity levels in the surrounding area. So when these
Speaker 1: acid sensing ion channels, like imagine a little it's like
Speaker 1: these a little gate and a little guard at the gate,
Speaker 1: it's going like, hey, what the heck The acid level
Speaker 1: is just dropped. The pH level has just dropped in
Speaker 1: the brain. That's weird. And so they uh allow an
Speaker 1: influx of calcium into the neuron to try to make
Speaker 1: up for the drop in pH. And under normal circumstances
Speaker 1: this would actually be protective for the neurons. But because
Speaker 1: these little these little ion channels are not aware, they
Speaker 1: don't have an awareness that, uh, this is actually a
Speaker 1: stroke situation. UM, this is actually very damaging. So by increase,
Speaker 1: like by allowing this huge influx of calcium into the neuron,
Speaker 1: this becomes deadly. It's not. It is called acidosis, which
Speaker 1: is a deadly increase of acid in the cell, which
Speaker 1: can cause cell death. And so, because the neurons are
Speaker 1: what make up your brain, death of the neurons is
Speaker 1: is brain death. And so this can be really dangerous
Speaker 1: when you're in the case of a stroke or brain damage.
Speaker 1: So if you could somehow tell those those acid sensing
Speaker 1: ion gates or to like stop, like don't worry about it,
Speaker 1: just chill right now, or or block them, that could
Speaker 1: be really useful. So back to the doctor Spider doctor
Speaker 1: spider venom. UH. That molecule in her venom that normally
Speaker 1: would be kind of bad because it interferes with these
Speaker 1: ion channels in the cell, in this situation could be
Speaker 1: life saving because then you can put that molecule in
Speaker 1: the brain and that blocks those acid sensing ion channels
Speaker 1: and it prevents them from increasing the acidity of the
Speaker 1: neurons and that will protect them from damage following UH stroke.
Speaker 1: And so this is a relatively new UH medical technology,
Speaker 1: but already in mouse models and studies this is showing
Speaker 1: some efficacy in protecting neurons post stroke, which is I mean,
Speaker 1: it is phenomenal that you can get from deadly spider
Speaker 1: venom to potentially protecting our neurons from themselves post stroke
Speaker 1: or traumatic brain injury. Yeah, it's you know, I mean
Speaker 1: again like we were talking earlier about, uh, you know
Speaker 1: how chimpanzees somehow figured out that rolling up leaves in
Speaker 1: their mouths and swallowing them whole can alleviate cramps. It
Speaker 1: seems amazing and ingenious. Well, I mean, the fact that
Speaker 1: they are our cousins. It's like, well, okay, now I
Speaker 1: kind of understand how we can get to this place
Speaker 1: as humans of discovering, hey, we can take this venom
Speaker 1: that in normal circumstances you don't want anywhere near your brain,
Speaker 1: but actually the circumstances really good for protecting your neurons.
Speaker 1: It's it's incredible, that is I mean, oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's like we need more of that because I feel like,
Speaker 1: I mean, how close are we then to using any
Speaker 1: animal and or insect and or any other whatever curing cancer?
Speaker 1: The difficulty with cancers, there's so many different types of cancers,
Speaker 1: but I think there are a lot of there are are.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to put it in the
Speaker 1: sense of like I don't think the only use to
Speaker 1: the natural world is things like finding medical cures, but
Speaker 1: if you cannot, if you can't convince someone that we
Speaker 1: should protect nature just because nature is awesome and it
Speaker 1: deserves to survive. Certainly, there are a lot of really
Speaker 1: interesting things biological processes out nature that would be really
Speaker 1: hard to figure out on our own, just because there's
Speaker 1: so many different like molecular shape and like what I
Speaker 1: was kind of describing earlier, where treating cancer or even
Speaker 1: something like an anti viral like a vaccine can really
Speaker 1: just come down to we gotta fit this weird shape
Speaker 1: into this weird shape, and there are so many weird
Speaker 1: shape out there, right, there's so many different molecules. Finding
Speaker 1: these molecules are coming up with these molecules is really difficult.
Speaker 1: And so whenever we lose a species, even if it's
Speaker 1: just some random insect, right, which you should care about.
Speaker 1: Insects are great, and most of you probably do, but
Speaker 1: I'm sure there are people out there who don't care, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, but they may have some really just like
Speaker 1: really interesting aspect to them that could have some phenomenal
Speaker 1: importance to human medicine. So there's definitely selfish reason to
Speaker 1: care about animals um but also they're just rad like
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, they're just rad animals. They're just yeah
Speaker 1: with sunglasses and doing a sick kick flip on a
Speaker 1: skateboard and that's the logo of the show while doing
Speaker 1: heavy lifting and yeah that's what and what I said,
Speaker 1: doing heavy lifting and curing illness but whatever. Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: it's like a spider, a doctor Spider who is a doctor,
Speaker 1: a handsome doctor Spider on a skateboard with a bunch
Speaker 1: of like doing some heavy lifting weights and curing stroke
Speaker 1: and cancer. Like would you marry? Would you marry Dr Spider?
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, yeah, you too. I mean, and I
Speaker 1: think it's okay, right because he's got so many legs.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of room for rings on those legs,
Speaker 1: right am I right? Ladies, yeah, now you're right, And
Speaker 1: all the ladies, we would at least eight of us
Speaker 1: could marry doctor Spider. So that's good because as you
Speaker 1: as you know, the number of marriage is just a
Speaker 1: number of legs that you have, is the number of
Speaker 1: spouses you can have. I think right, legally speaking, there
Speaker 1: are you eight for a spider because it's the number
Speaker 1: of legs you can put a ring on. And I'm
Speaker 1: talking about the law, right, yeah, I guess, so that
Speaker 1: makes sense. No, I'm following. I'm following. Okay, so Dr
Speaker 1: Spider is eligible eligible bachelor spider. So and you got
Speaker 1: you got any more questions about using spider venom to
Speaker 1: help in medicine other than like I would say, don't
Speaker 1: just piss off a bunch of spiders and inject their
Speaker 1: venom into you, because that's probably bad. I mean, if
Speaker 1: you say so, Um, I know, I've had a lot
Speaker 1: of questions. I guess I don't know, like how prominent
Speaker 1: is the like research for all this Like how like
Speaker 1: while you say, like you know, because like curing cancer
Speaker 1: is a lot more difficult than just being able to
Speaker 1: like pull a excretion out of an animal and do
Speaker 1: a bunch of science to it and make it happen.
Speaker 1: But like, how like do you is it really like,
Speaker 1: are are people really working on this kind of stuff,
Speaker 1: like studying this kind of stuff or is it more
Speaker 1: of like it's happening but it's not as prominent as
Speaker 1: it could be. I think it is. I mean, this
Speaker 1: gets into a whole tricky territory, right because I think
Speaker 1: there is a lot of research going on, uh with
Speaker 1: respect to studying these kinds of cures obviously because it's
Speaker 1: like profit driven, maybe there are studies that could be
Speaker 1: happening that aren't if like the the diseases maybe too
Speaker 1: rare or there, it's hard to see like maybe a
Speaker 1: essential profitability to it. So it may be stimmied somewhat
Speaker 1: by those factors. But certainly there is a lot of
Speaker 1: research that involves using the the things that we find
Speaker 1: in nature, or even using like you know, if we
Speaker 1: can if we find animals using things like things for
Speaker 1: medicine and nature. It is, it's so much it's such
Speaker 1: a short cut rather than looking for a random random
Speaker 1: molecules out there. If we can find some kind of
Speaker 1: patterns of natures, it really does Uh, it can really
Speaker 1: help with research. But that being said, I think obviously
Speaker 1: there is it's like there could be so much more
Speaker 1: interesting research done that maybe uh, people who would like
Speaker 1: offer the grant for the research or something maybe not
Speaker 1: want to invest in as much because it doesn't seem
Speaker 1: as profitable or as like flashy or something. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it is it's a it's a complicated issue, which and
Speaker 1: I would say, like I think the desire of researchers
Speaker 1: to research these really interesting ideas and potential things for
Speaker 1: medicine may outpace like the rate at which they are
Speaker 1: funded to do so, right, Yeah, that's unfortunate. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: now I know. Don't chug soy sauce. I don't know
Speaker 1: why that really hit somewhere because I love soy sauce.
Speaker 1: Just love to douse my like sushi, you know, just
Speaker 1: like I love it. And now you have me like
Speaker 1: questioning everything I've ever Like, I'm like, wait, well, in
Speaker 1: the sense I mean sauces, soy sauce is not specifically bad.
Speaker 1: I mean it's specifically very good, very delicious. But it's
Speaker 1: like it's the same thing with like salt water, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just very it's very salty. And so remember when
Speaker 1: I was talking about those sodium ion channels, Like if
Speaker 1: you have too much sodium and your cells are trying
Speaker 1: to reach homeostasis, which is like basically having the salinity
Speaker 1: outside the cell equal that inside the cell. Uh, if
Speaker 1: you throw that out of whack with too much sodium,
Speaker 1: then that can cause cell essentially cell kind of exploding.
Speaker 1: So that's bad or imploding, which is also bad. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and actually you can have too much water, so this
Speaker 1: is very Yes, don't stop drinking water, it's very good
Speaker 1: for you. You would have in order to overdose on water.
Speaker 1: You would have to make a concerted effort to do this.
Speaker 1: It's very difficult to do. So if you're thirsty and
Speaker 1: you drink water and you're like, oh no, what if
Speaker 1: I'm having too much water, it's not gonna happen. Do
Speaker 1: not worry about this. Keep hydrating, folks, good for you.
Speaker 1: Can I tell you my story and my kind of
Speaker 1: hometown high school growing up, It was a radio station
Speaker 1: which was having a contest of who could drink the
Speaker 1: most water and one of the people died. What oh god.
Speaker 1: I made the news because they were like, she drank
Speaker 1: so much water she literally passed on. I was like
Speaker 1: someone's mom, Like it was really tragic. And that's when
Speaker 1: I first learned you can't be doing that, Like there
Speaker 1: is a limit to how much water you can in take.
Speaker 1: I mean, the main thing is just don't listen to
Speaker 1: what shock jocks what to do. Not going to be good.
Speaker 1: That's so, that's so sad, that's messed up. I hope
Speaker 1: that they got sud I think, yeah, I'm sure I
Speaker 1: should have. Yeah, I know that. So you don't want
Speaker 1: to like you would have to drink so much water,
Speaker 1: it would you will start to feel eck from the
Speaker 1: amount of water that you're It isn't It is an
Speaker 1: incredible amount of water you have to drink for this
Speaker 1: to happen. But just like you can have too much
Speaker 1: sodium in your blood stream, you can have too little
Speaker 1: sodium in your blood stream, and it like what I'm
Speaker 1: describing in terms of like cell homeostasis. Cells try to
Speaker 1: equalize the amount of sodium, the concentration of sodium inside
Speaker 1: the cell and outside the cell. So if you have
Speaker 1: no sodium outside of the cell, right, you're drinking way
Speaker 1: too much water. Then all of the sodium is released
Speaker 1: from out of the cell, which is also bad, which
Speaker 1: also destroys the cell. Or vice versa. If you have
Speaker 1: too much sodium in the blood stream, the cell actually
Speaker 1: releases too much of the water and then that also
Speaker 1: destroys the cell, which is actually so this is maybe
Speaker 1: a slight tangent, but hey, it's an animal's podcast. This
Speaker 1: is actually a problem them that fish who will fish
Speaker 1: like salmon, who migrate from the ocean to freshwater to spawn,
Speaker 1: have to contend with because fish can't necessarily just switch
Speaker 1: from high salt concentration water to freshwater. Because like if
Speaker 1: you take like a if you've ever had a fish tank, right,
Speaker 1: if you've ever owned an aquarium, you know it's very
Speaker 1: important that if you have uh, freshwater fish, they only
Speaker 1: get freshwater. Saltwater fish, they need a specific concentration of saltwater. Uh.
Speaker 1: Salmon have some safeguards, these very specific safeguards to prevent
Speaker 1: their cells from imploding and exploding when they move between
Speaker 1: the saltwater environments and the freshwater environment, which is really interesting.
Speaker 1: So that is why you shouldn't chug soy sauce or
Speaker 1: saltwater or chug a lot like sickening ridiculous amounts of water.
Speaker 1: But again, you're not going to do that unless you're
Speaker 1: intentionally trying, and that would be bad for you. So
Speaker 1: don't do it. Yeah, I mean, I I don't even
Speaker 1: I don't even know how you could chug saltwater. I mean,
Speaker 1: I've had saltwater is devastatingly tough. It's bad. My mom
Speaker 1: has no I'm just saying, my mom has me gargol
Speaker 1: saltwater when I'm like sick, but I could mind never
Speaker 1: chuck it. No, you'll get sick, you'll probably throw up.
Speaker 1: It's not good for you. Don't do it, no, no thanks,
Speaker 1: and don't drink and don't drink a seawater because that
Speaker 1: will make you sick. Um. But hey, actually we just
Speaker 1: talked about this on the last podcast. I think a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago that camels can can drink saltwater
Speaker 1: and they're fine. Yeah, because and we're not exactly sure
Speaker 1: researchers don't exactly know how they manage this, but yeah,
Speaker 1: wild bactory and camels can drink salt water that is
Speaker 1: saltier than seawater and they're okay. So that is very interesting.
Speaker 1: So maybe if you're a camel, you can drink soy sauce.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, but if you're not a camel, don't
Speaker 1: try it. Do you think a camel will just be
Speaker 1: fine if it just chugged a ton of soy sauce?
Speaker 1: I guess it depends on what you mean by a
Speaker 1: ton of soy What do you mean by it? I
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know what a ton of soy
Speaker 1: sauce is. I know it requires a light hand when you're,
Speaker 1: you know, doing stir fry, otherwise it's too salty. But
Speaker 1: you know I would say that which is probably deadly
Speaker 1: to humans is probably not deadly to a wild bactory
Speaker 1: and camel. If that's what you're asking, I don't know.
Speaker 1: To be honest, I don't know. I like, what is okay?
Speaker 1: How okay? What am I gonna ask? How much are
Speaker 1: you trying? How much soy sauce you need to kill
Speaker 1: a camel? Because I'm not going to tell you. I'm
Speaker 1: just curious out this point because you know how camel
Speaker 1: can hold all this liquid to survive, and you know
Speaker 1: hot desert climates. Mhm mhmm. You're right, we should move on.
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not instructing people how to kill camels
Speaker 1: with soy sauce that I have a strong moral line
Speaker 1: there that I will not cross. So before we go,
Speaker 1: we gotta would you like to play a little game
Speaker 1: with me? Always it's called the Mystery Animal Sound Game?
Speaker 1: Every week I play a mystery animal sound and you
Speaker 1: the stener, and I'll see you the guest. Uh try
Speaker 1: to fare get who is who's squawking? Who's making that sound?
Speaker 1: And it can be any animal. It can be a fish,
Speaker 1: can be a bird, it can be I don't know, frog,
Speaker 1: even any animal can make these sounds. And so the
Speaker 1: hint I gave last week was don't jump to conclusions
Speaker 1: with this sound. And here it is, so and h
Speaker 1: can you guess who's making that sound? Mm hmm, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna guess either. Can I have two guests? Sure, I'm generous,
Speaker 1: I'm between a hippo and a turtle. But I like
Speaker 1: those guesses because you know, they do sound. It does
Speaker 1: sound like a hippo or a turtle, especially when turtles
Speaker 1: are mating. They make very strange Yeah. I saw a
Speaker 1: video recently of a turtle mating and it was making
Speaker 1: some funny It was like, sent it to me after
Speaker 1: they described it to me, and it was like and
Speaker 1: it like came. I was like, when it like ejaculated,
Speaker 1: like it sounds like it sounds like an old man
Speaker 1: out of breath, which I guess in a way it is.
Speaker 1: But you are wrong about this specific sound. Uh, this
Speaker 1: is actually the sound of a kangaroo. They can be yes,
Speaker 1: they can be very vocal and make these grunting, barking
Speaker 1: sounds to communicate. Yeah, so that is actually a kangaroo.
Speaker 1: Did not know that found in found in Australia's They
Speaker 1: you know they'll kill you in the streets. They are pugnacious.
Speaker 1: They are pugnacious, and yeah, they will sometimes stand in
Speaker 1: water because it is a defensive tactic to like try
Speaker 1: to shove you around in the water and uh yeah,
Speaker 1: So yeah, don't mess with kangaroos. Uh yeah, that's tough.
Speaker 1: That's tough for me because I want to so bad,
Speaker 1: just choking, want to mess with kangaroo. I like to
Speaker 1: think of my dad just thinking he's going to get
Speaker 1: off the plane in Australia, Australia, and the kangaroo's just
Speaker 1: going to punch him in the face the second he's
Speaker 1: off the pod while grunting and screaming. Yeah. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: feel like if you want your dad to go to Australia,
Speaker 1: you should only let him listen to certain sections of
Speaker 1: this episode, just the part where we talk about this
Speaker 1: butter curing strokes and nothing else. Maybe yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I won't Yeah, if it does happen, it would be
Speaker 1: so funny. Literally, he spends his whole life being like,
Speaker 1: they'll kill you on the street and then he just
Speaker 1: gets punched by a kangaroo. There is a video of
Speaker 1: someone uh doing a parachute and lands on the ground.
Speaker 1: This is in Australia, and a kangaroo comes up at
Speaker 1: him with how many The parachuoters like, oh hey there
Speaker 1: skip and then the kangaroo just punches them. It's really funny.
Speaker 1: There you go. Yeah, I love I love it, honestly
Speaker 1: good for good for the kangaroo. Nothing against parachooters, but
Speaker 1: you know if you saw someone parachute down. Look, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I'm saying the kangaroo may have been justified.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that. Wow, I get it. Onto this
Speaker 1: week's mystery animal sound. Here is the hint. Could this
Speaker 1: be the call of a unicorn? So and Gonny guesses
Speaker 1: on who is making that sound? It sounds like a
Speaker 1: demonic clown or not clown cow, demonic cow, demonic cow clown? Um,
Speaker 1: it is actually a demonic clown. Uh, So you won
Speaker 1: the game. Well, what is it really? I don't know
Speaker 1: what I was now it's not a demonic clown or
Speaker 1: demonic cow. But the answer, I'm sorry to say you'll
Speaker 1: have to wait until next week, until next Wednesday, when
Speaker 1: I will reveal the answer to who was squawking? Is
Speaker 1: it a demonic clown? Um? Maybe? Uh? But if you
Speaker 1: think you know out there right to me at Creature
Speaker 1: feature Pod at gmail dot com. And I'm also you know,
Speaker 1: around the internet like on Instagram Creature feature Pod or
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Creature feed Pod. That's f E T
Speaker 1: not et not is something different, very different. Anna, Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for joining me. Where can the people
Speaker 1: find you? What are you? What are you up to? Ah?
Speaker 1: You can check out my podcast Ethnically Ambiguous or or
Speaker 1: and or you can follow me at Anna host the
Speaker 1: A A N N A h O S S N
Speaker 1: I e H on Twitter or where I post about
Speaker 1: all the shows I produce another fun fun stuff. Please
Speaker 1: do that and thank you so much for listening. Hey,
Speaker 1: if you're enjoying the show and you want to leave
Speaker 1: me a writing or review, I really appreciate that. Not
Speaker 1: only do I appreciate it, I read all of them,
Speaker 1: literally all of them, and so you write a review,
Speaker 1: I will read it and it will make me feel good,
Speaker 1: you know, So I appreciate that. And thanks to the
Speaker 1: Space Classics for their super awesome song x Alumina. Creature
Speaker 1: features a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts
Speaker 1: like the one you just heard, visit the I Heart
Speaker 1: Radio app Apple podcast or Hey, guess what, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I honestly you can listen to this in any way
Speaker 1: that you want, and I am not. I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: judge you, so yeah uh. And again, don't chug soy sauce,
Speaker 1: don't let the spiders bite you on the face, and
Speaker 1: I'll see you next Wednesday. Bye bye,