WEBVTT - How to Tell the Story Only You Can Tell with Girlfriends Creator Mara Brock Akil 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:05.840 No one has all the answers, but when we ask 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:10.680 the right questions, we get a little closer, closer to truths, 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:16.560 closer to each other, even closer to ourselves. I'm journalist 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:19.240 Danielle Robe and each week, my guests and i'd come 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:22.800 together to challenge the status quo and our own ways 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:27.360 of thinking by daring to ask what if, why not? 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:29.080 And who says? 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:30.600 So? 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:35.920 Come curious, dig deep, and join the conversation. It's time 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:42.720 to question everything. Hello, I hope you're having a beautiful 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:45.360 day and beautiful week. I just got back to LA 0:00:46.240 --> 0:00:48.839 and I was in New York for I think like 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:51.839 nine or ten days. I was there to do a 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:55.240 Reese's book Club event. I was there to do some 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:58.160 other things. I ended the trip with such a fun night. 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:02.840 Eve the rapper who was on the podcast when she 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:06.720 came out with her memoir. It's such a good episode. 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:08.440 If you haven't listened to it, go back and listened 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:13.200 to Eve. She's such a trailblazer and she has this 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:16.800 event that she started called Breathe and Believe, which she 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:19.119 used to sign off her emails Breathe and Believe. Anyways, 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:23.000 it's now an event and I spoke at it and 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:29.319 then interviewed Eve and Tunday, who is just a beautiful 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:33.240 human being. You may know her name. She's a peloton instructor, 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:37.559 an actress, an author, a speaker. She's like a truly 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:44.240 wonderful human being. And before we started, it was Eve, Tounday, me, 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:48.920 this woman, Lexi, and Katrina. So there's five of us 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:54.680 and I had never met Sunday or Lexi. And I 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:57.600 get to the green room wherever all the speakers are 0:01:58.040 --> 0:01:59.960 and I meet Lexi and she has this like suit 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:03.880 super effervescent personality and she's so warm, and we're talking 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:07.280 for about sixty seconds, mostly about a mutual friend that 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:10.560 we have, and then she grabs my arm. She goes, Danielle, 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:13.000 you are about to go through a breakthrough. And I 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:15.800 was like what, and she goes, no, don't act surprise. 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:19.080 You know this, but you need to do something. You 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:21.400 need to do something hard so that you can unlock 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:26.760 everything that is waiting for you. And she said a 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:29.720 few other things that are waiting for me, and I 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:34.880 just who gave me such chills. She was so specific. 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:40.200 And it's been tripping me out all week because you know, 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:43.680 I've had psychics on the podcast before you know that, 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:48.320 And I oscillate between like such deep faith and being 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:55.960 so skeptical, and she was just super intuitive. It was 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:58.880 really wild. So I had to share that experience with you. 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:02.359 When I get into today's episode, it's so special. Mara 0:03:02.480 --> 0:03:06.359 Brokakhiel is here with us, and I don't know about you, 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:09.680 But not only did I grow up watching her on Girlfriends, 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:14.640 as I got older and got to watch her career unfold, 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:18.959 I was just in constant awe of her self efficacy 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:24.040 and her integrity and her realness, Like she's one of 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:27.600 those people. She just puts good stuff, stuff that matters 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:29.720 out into the world. I just felt so lucky that 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:32.560 we got to speak with her. So let's get into it. 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:39.200 I've been thinking about the TV that raised us, not 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:42.400 just the shows we watched or quoted, but the shows 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:44.720 that gave us all a model for what it was 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:47.080 like to be a grown up in the world. For 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:49.760 so many of us, Girlfriends was one of those shows 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:58.440 right if you haven't watched, it's streaming on Netflix now, 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:03.120 and the characters Joan Maya Imlynn gave generations of women 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:07.000 a blueprint for what their lives could look like. They 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:09.080 showed us that we could be a lot of things 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:15.440 at once, messy and lovable, complicated, hilarious and truly imperfect. 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.159 And at the center of that show was our guest today, 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:26.799 Marra Brakakiel. She created Girlfriends and has served as a creator, writer, 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:30.760 executive producer, and showrunner on some of the most influential 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:34.719 television series of the last three decades, shows like The 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:40.560 Game Being Mary Jane, Love Is Forever and More. And 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:43.359 now she's the author of her debut novel, The Revelation 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:44.760 of Dionne Daphney. 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:45.839 Now. 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:49.200 Maraa's work never gives us perfect women. It gives us 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:52.679 human women, women who are a lot of things at once, 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:55.799 And for more than thirty years, she's been exploring questions 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:59.000 that so many of us were trying to find language for. 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:03.600 She was answering questions with her work like can women 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:06.440 really have it all? What do friendships give us that 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:10.080 families sometimes can't, how much of our lives are driven 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:13.360 by desire? And how much by shame? Can we fully 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:16.480 be seen and still be loved? Today we cover a 0:05:16.520 --> 0:05:20.000 lot of ground, okay, including what inspired her famous characters. 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:24.000 She takes us back to the Renaissance of Black Hollywood 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:26.719 in the nineties, and Mara hits us with an idea 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:29.200 that I haven't been able to stop thinking about since 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:33.720 we spoke, that our girlfriends become the surrogate parents of 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:37.960 our adulthood. Just sit with that for a second. Now. 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:40.960 You'd think that, after writing hit show after hit show, 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:44.280 that my biggest takeaway from this conversation with Mara would 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:47.440 be about her profound impact on culture. But instead I 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:51.200 was struck by what a champion she is for storytelling 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:53.520 as a way to understand ourselves. 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:59.480 Your story, our stories, our feelings, our thoughts, our concerns, 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:02.279 our race, how revenge, all the things. 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:02.600 I think. 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:06.240 If you can first place it in a journal, it 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:09.279 begins the healing. And even if it's just an audience 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:11.960 of one, it is worthy to be considered. 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:15.839 Even if it's just an audience of one, it is worthy. 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:20.520 For Mara, every story begins with a question, not because 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:23.120 she has the answers, but because she's curious about what 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:24.279 it means to be human. 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:25.240 Now. 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:28.680 Throughout her career, she's used storytelling to explore friendship and 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:32.480 shame and ambition and identity and love and healing and 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:36.640 the complicated process of becoming who we are all of 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:40.160 the things that we talk about on this podcast, And 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:42.920 maybe that's why her work has resonated with me and 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:46.760 so many people for so long, because beneath every great 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:49.520 story is a question that we're all trying to answer 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:53.680 about ourselves. So today I invite you to reflect on 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:57.599 what that question might be for you. It's time to 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:11.840 question everything with MARAA Brod Kakuil. So we are constantly 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:14.880 talking about new eras right now, but I can't think 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:17.960 of anybody that made us love our old ones more 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:21.440 than you did. Every time we think nineties, I think 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:23.480 so many of us want to go back. So I 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:25.600 want you to take me back to your nineties for 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:28.040 a second. What was the best part of that time 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:28.320 for you? 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:34.760 All the possibilities I came out. I went into college 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:42.160 believing the dream, believing that unlike my mothers and my grandmother's, 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:46.120 we actually had a chance to have our own financial independence, 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:50.720 seek out careers of our desires, of our curiosities, of 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:54.680 our interests, of ours of you know what we did well, 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:58.360 and so it was full of possibility. I chose the 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:01.240 best for myself. I went to Northwest. I got what 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:03.760 I needed there to feel confident to go out into 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:06.520 the world. And even when I pivoted, because I went 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:09.800 went in as a journalist, I thought, and of course, 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:13.240 wouldn't that be great? Journalism also said to me, I 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:15.840 was going to travel and see things and meet people 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:23.040 and learn about things, being a constant student of life 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:25.160 really but also participant. 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:27.880 What was moving you at the time, because I've heard 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:30.360 you talk about seeing Whitney and magazine. 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:33.800 Oh my gosh, it's funny you talk about Whitney was 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:40.240 the first black beautiful image I saw inside of seventeen magazine, 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:44.920 which I subscribed to, and I remember the I remember 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:47.880 the feeling when I saw her inside the pages, and 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:49.520 then of course when she made it to the cover, 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:53.960 it was almost like I made it. We didn't have 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:58.800 representation matters, you know, language back then, but that was 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:03.360 the feeling I saw. I was avid reader of seventeen, 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:08.160 but seeing Whitney, somehow a part of me woke up. 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:13.080 And then you see the heights in what she reached. Oh, 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:16.959 this guy's a limit. So that sense of empowerment was there. 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:20.120 And also our music was different. A lot of love 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:24.680 stories look so longing for love was in the music. 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:29.320 So I think connection and you know, I partied a lot, 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:32.679 worked hard during the week, especially when I was in Chicago. 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:36.200 You know, Chicago's a very work hard, play hard kind 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:36.520 of town. 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:38.760 I really do know what you're talking about. 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:43.360 Chicago party. I mean, you know, but it was fun 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:47.920 to get out, you know, feel really quote unquote balanced 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:50.360 in that way. I felt the nineties were that for me. 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:53.439 I think there was a part when I when I 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:58.520 left Chicago to come to Los Angeles to pursue Hollywood, 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:03.280 I understood the game was hard. And then speaking of representation, 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:05.719 you didn't see a lot of us out there. I 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:09.800 didn't know who these people were. I started reading the credits. 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:14.000 You know, Debbie Allen really stuck out. Okay, Wow, she 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:15.959 changed a different world. Okay, you started to start to 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:20.959 add up until I met my mentors and Ralph Sarah 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:25.520 and also Debbie. But I then got really focused. And 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:30.719 so my nineties was very much about black Hollywood, really 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:34.960 because it was Burganine in the nineties. First was Fox, 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:37.199 which I was on South Central around that, and then 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:43.520 it opened up to Wow UPN and the WB and 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:47.000 suddenly we had jobs and people wanted to know about 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:49.560 a lot of Half Hour And that's how I really 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:53.960 got started after South Central, which was my writer's trainee job, 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:58.720 which was amazing. I met Gina Prince bythewood there. She 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:02.000 was Gina Prince at the time time and now she's 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:07.400 my lifelong friend and sister. But that happened then and 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:15.080 then moesha. I mean, guys, I'm telling you being being 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:19.040 on a hit television show, even for what was considered 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:22.959 then called a netlit because it wasn't you know, ABC, NBC, 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:25.640 CBS kind of vibes. But it was joy. It was 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:32.160 like the HBCU of television. And our show nights were 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:34.400 a thing. Like people would come to show night and 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:36.840 you know, you know, Alia would be in the crowd. 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:39.040 Boys to me would be in the crowd. Usher would 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:41.600 be on the show. But you know, Diana Ross is 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:44.840 in the audience when we were shooting Girlfriends to be 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:47.280 there for Tracy. I mean, people would show up to 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:49.600 the show and I'm glad that I was able to 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:51.920 create during that time because we were able to capture 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:54.880 some of the culture that I think is worth being 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:56.000 nostalgic about. 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:59.280 That's beautiful, is there? I know being a mom is 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:03.160 important to you. Is there a piece of music or 0:12:03.240 --> 0:12:06.920 TV or film that's important for you to give to 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:07.800 the next generation. 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:13.520 Oh wow, good question. A fun one that I always 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:15.640 tease because now I've been I'm working with a lot 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:18.920 of young writers. It was funny the other day, not 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:21.920 the other day, but during a writer's room, a first 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:25.760 season one or forever, we were talking about Prince and 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:28.400 I mentioned I just made a beautiful one's reference, and 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:31.360 I just saw all these blank faces and then I 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:34.000 just repeated it again. I was like something beautiful Ones? 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:38.000 Like why are they responding? And I was like, hold up, 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:40.720 do you guys know what the beautiful ones is? And 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:43.280 they were like no. And I said, do you know 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:45.680 who Prince is? And they were like yeah, And I go, 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:50.120 what songs do you know? They named the classics. I said, 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:52.120 but you don't know what beautiful Ones is and they 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:53.960 were like no. I said, did you watch Purple Rain? 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:56.120 And they were like, yeah, you don't know what beautiful one? 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:58.679 And I just so upset. I was so mad. 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:03.120 I was like, what are your parents do it? So? 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:05.120 I could you don't give education? 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:09.440 And I think what I'm excited about is that I 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:13.679 did it, even recently and forever the near past about 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:17.079 where RAP was just about six years ago. I think 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:22.800 platforming or pulling certain pieces of music into the work 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:28.160 actually gives it, you know, it's putting it in the 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:37.520 canon with emotion feeling important. So I think music is 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:39.080 one of the things that I has been a through 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:41.920 line in my work, and I think I've given that 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:45.719 back within the culture. I think the other thing I've 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:49.680 given back is just the honesty. I think that you 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:53.120 can I think the the idea of the need for 0:13:53.240 --> 0:14:01.240 community and to speak very candidly and honestly within your 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:04.280 friend groups. I think for the for the purpose of 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:10.480 h intimacy and closeness and connectivity. I think that you know, 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:13.440 there's a there's a conversation going on right now that 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:16.160 though we have all these means to connect, we're not 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:20.440 really connecting. And I think my shows show model for 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:23.640 how you deal with your friends in conflict and in 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:29.960 fun and through the. 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:30.600 Pivotal points in our lives, you know. 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:33.440 So I think it's and it's funny because the kids, 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:36.800 they look at it and they have a lot of opinions, 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:40.160 so they get to look at it and see what 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:42.240 not to do. And I think that's just fine. Like 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:45.320 you think Joan and Tony are toxic Yeah, it's guess 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:48.320 what a lot of us are. A lot of us 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:52.600 are if we're not dealing with the underbelly of our 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:58.160 of our shadow life. You know all these terms. Now, 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:02.560 I love this generation for the labeling of things, just 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:09.520 naming things a lot. I think there's a what's the 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:12.680 word I'm looking for. I think there's a fine line, 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:15.560 fine line, but also a catch in that you can 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:18.080 get stuck and just wanting to name things. Whereas I 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:20.320 think I got to be we call I think my 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:22.160 generation is called the feral kids. We just got to 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:24.880 experience it and figure it out later. So I think 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:28.440 there's a good combination of the two about understanding what's 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:31.760 going on and oh wow, this is a type of 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:34.520 attachment style or this is you know, this is a 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:38.640 toxic behavior. But okay, we've named it. But then now, 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:41.080 how do we deal with it without throwing everything? We 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:42.960 have to cancel everything, you know what I'm saying. We 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:45.200 can sort of figure out how do we move through 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:48.200 the tough stuff because we all carry some of it. 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:52.880 And if you don't, wow, thank thank the heavens for that, 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:57.240 because I think you can't really live in this time, 0:15:57.320 --> 0:16:03.760 in this country without having some of the reverberation of 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:07.640 the pain that this country is built on, not moved 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:10.840 through you. The good news is that I think the 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:14.600 generations are trying to name it and claim it, to 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:18.600 purge it, you know, And so I'm excited to meet 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:21.160 them there. And I think looking back at my shows, 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:24.080 it's okay to work through things and let it be 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:24.760 a little tough. 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:27.360 You know, we're just in the messy middle of it, 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:29.320 a little bit messy middle of it. I love that. 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:30.080 I like that term. 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:30.960 It's another naming. 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:47.920 You guys are really good at it, you know. 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:51.560 I think your stories they don't just stick with us, 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:56.920 they help us understand ourselves, which is pretty rare. And 0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:00.920 you mentioned that you went to school for journalist of yeah, 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:04.120 and I love reading that. You start all of your 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:07.520 stories with a question, Yeah, can you talk to me 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:09.920 about that? I mean, I know that I'm maas I 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:10.879 love that idea. 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:14.439 So my process is that shout out to Northwestern. I 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:17.159 think it was one of the best decisions I have 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:21.000 made in my life, is to choose that school. I 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:23.800 think we chose each other. It was the only school 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:27.560 I applied to. But what it did is the journalism 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:33.760 degree teaching the skill of crafting a story and really 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:38.880 the importance of why. And then also I was heavily 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:46.400 concentrated in sociology, and so that educational training really then 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:53.160 allows me to really observe. So my process is one 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:56.880 of observing and just I just really pay attention to 0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:00.800 what catches my attention. And I always said, good, bad, 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:05.280 or other. What it catches your attention as yours or 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:08.600 what happens to you, it's yours. And so I see 0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:11.640 these things as you know, I'm not going to say 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:14.639 I'm I might cry through it or be upset about 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:17.399 it and feel the emotion, but I then become aware 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:21.800 of that emotion very quickly, Oh, I'm having this experience. 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:26.360 And so I start to if that is a palette color, yeah, 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:29.760 it's Oh, that's a paint color I'm going to put on. 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:34.359 I start to separate things, and then the question it's like, 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:36.880 why then am I attracted to all of these things? 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:39.440 What is what am I trying to sort out? And 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:42.879 sometimes it just starts with that general general of a 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:45.679 question in a journal. What am I? 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:47.240 What am I curious about? 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:50.480 Why? Why am I thinking about this? And then I'll 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:52.639 go on about my day and then something will happen, 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:59.560 and I'll lean in and the question comes into perfect form. 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:03.280 I mean, at the time, even when I was writing Girlfriends, 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:07.920 the thing that kept kept speaking of magazines, that kept 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:10.040 being told to us as women is that you can 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:12.600 have it all, And we were questioning could we have 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:14.879 it all? And so if you really look at that work, 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:19.240 that is what is the anchor of that question. And 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:22.920 then well, if you're going to have it all, how 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:24.080 could you have it all? 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:25.120 Interesting? 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:27.800 And how and if you were? And what would you 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:30.639 need in order to figure that out? You're going to 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:33.119 need a good group of girlfriends, you know. That was 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:35.840 that was So that's how that starts to form with 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:39.399 the with my latest work, with the Revelation of Deane Daphne, 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:46.240 I just kept noticing, I've been really watching us as women, 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:51.320 now that we have more freedom, we're being more unapologetic. 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:57.600 I was just curious, is our sexual agency really out 0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:05.120 of liberation or are we just playing out the trauma 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:08.639 that this country is built on that and there is 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:13.360 violence under this country and are we just reacting to that? 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:19.239 And I'm not saying I have the answer. I just 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:24.280 decided that that held my curiosity and I've just been 0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:27.679 So what it's been doing is making me watch and 0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:28.440 look at. 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:32.280 Where we are. And then. 0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:38.120 Meanwhile, I still had a place to put. The other 0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:40.520 thing my work does is I always love this kind 0:20:40.520 --> 0:20:42.560 of shout out to my journalism degree, is that I 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:45.480 always love to tell the truth through fiction, and I 0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:47.199 really started to play with the idea of what are 0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:51.560 facts and what is the truth. I also enjoy not 0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:59.280 thinking about my process and just being intuitively led and 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:03.040 allowing I have I'm really good at making space to 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:06.240 hear my characters, and I listened to them and I 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:11.560 let them guide me. And that's a That's what I 0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:15.000 call like riding the wave, and that that can be addictive, 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:18.679 and so thankfully it's a good addiction because it's created 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:22.240 a wonderful career for me. But I enjoy riding the 0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:25.240 wave and letting these characters embody me and being the 0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:27.400 vessel by which the story can come through. 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:31.360 You ask some pretty deep questions on the opening page. 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:34.960 I think that one of them was what did the 0:21:35.040 --> 0:21:37.880 nineties tell us about ourselves before we were launched into 0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:41.000 the new millennia? Did you have an answer to that 0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:43.840 before you posed it, or do you have an answer. 0:21:43.520 --> 0:21:48.959 Now you know, one fun thing that the book revealed 0:21:49.000 --> 0:21:51.199 to me. I always expect a gift out of my writing, 0:21:52.960 --> 0:21:54.879 and sometimes it hits you right away, and sometimes it 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:58.240 might be years later vis a vis the audience, you. 0:21:58.200 --> 0:22:02.920 Know, reflecting on it. In this case, I. 0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:09.320 Think with the nineties, our effort that we had to 0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:14.879 make in our friendships are really valuable. And I'm not 0:22:15.000 --> 0:22:19.000 saying it's not happening now, because it is. But I'm 0:22:19.160 --> 0:22:30.280 curious about about that, about the consistent nature of the 0:22:30.320 --> 0:22:36.560 gathering and the need to to really be oneself truly, 0:22:37.800 --> 0:22:41.520 and not for the gram not for you know, not 0:22:41.640 --> 0:22:43.960 for the phone. Like I even wonder how much phones 0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:51.800 just being present is disrupting the connection the nineties, I 0:22:51.800 --> 0:22:54.960 feel like the nineties for me, the gift of the 0:22:55.000 --> 0:23:00.000 book was Dionne and Farah in the book that Journey 0:23:00.080 --> 0:23:02.600 of Friendship, that is in the through line of the book. 0:23:03.280 --> 0:23:07.200 It revealed to me that why are our girlfriends really important? 0:23:08.440 --> 0:23:13.480 Is that they represent They become the surrogant parent for 0:23:13.600 --> 0:23:18.200 what we did not get from our parents, that keep us, 0:23:18.720 --> 0:23:21.880 that keep us steady enough so we can get our 0:23:21.960 --> 0:23:25.520 own legs, our own legs sturdy enough for we to 0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:30.879 parent ourselves and that's when the healing begins at that generation. 0:23:31.440 --> 0:23:33.639 And then I think you've heard of like people, if 0:23:33.680 --> 0:23:36.760 you heal yourself, you healed seven generations forward and backwards. 0:23:37.240 --> 0:23:40.080 I think that's exactly what happens. And I think our 0:23:40.119 --> 0:23:43.920 girlfriends hold us, They just hold us in place until 0:23:43.920 --> 0:23:47.040 we can get it together, so we can repairent ourselves, 0:23:47.160 --> 0:23:53.720 find some level of forgiveness, understanding of what the legacy 0:23:53.880 --> 0:23:59.240 of pain that may have been passed on can be stopped, 0:24:02.359 --> 0:24:06.000 and then also remember what's good about bringing forward from 0:24:06.080 --> 0:24:09.960 your family legacy, and then you can move on. Which 0:24:09.960 --> 0:24:14.240 is interesting because if you're watching the men, now there's 0:24:14.280 --> 0:24:18.280 been this, you know, all this naming, they're not emotionally 0:24:18.320 --> 0:24:22.360 available all these women. What's happening in the divorce rate? 0:24:22.400 --> 0:24:24.840 And the young women don't want to get married? Like, 0:24:25.480 --> 0:24:28.159 what is happening? I think it's a it's not the 0:24:28.200 --> 0:24:31.560 sky is falling. I believe that soil is turning because 0:24:31.600 --> 0:24:34.119 we are trying to find new ways. And I think 0:24:34.359 --> 0:24:38.359 when men start to cold, when they I don't know, 0:24:38.400 --> 0:24:41.639 they're going to call each other boyfriends, but my crew, 0:24:41.920 --> 0:24:45.240 my guys, my whatever. But when they honor that male 0:24:45.480 --> 0:24:51.760 gathering and that mentorship of holding each other in place 0:24:51.880 --> 0:24:56.520 long enough for them to reparent themselves and understand what 0:24:57.200 --> 0:25:01.879 a new definition of protection and providing is. And you 0:25:01.920 --> 0:25:04.600 know we can read, we can. I think there's all 0:25:04.760 --> 0:25:08.439 you know, not time. I think there is value in 0:25:10.160 --> 0:25:16.479 honoring the power of softness being protected by and what 0:25:16.560 --> 0:25:20.480