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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stupidity, home of the greatest media mind ever

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Speaker 1: to walk the planet.

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Speaker 2: Okay, sure, here's the deal.

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Speaker 3: He's a true icon in every sense of the word.

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Speaker 2: He's loved and feared more than any being.

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Speaker 1: To Grace's plummet, there's got a bad with a voice

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Speaker 1: that sounds like very white and be.

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Speaker 2: Got say I let you with baby.

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Speaker 1: God himself would pay thirty nine ninety nine for a cameo.

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Speaker 1: Fact of the matter is you are about to embark

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Speaker 1: on a transcendent experience that can only be described as

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Speaker 1: psychological nudity.

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Speaker 2: This iss and this is stupidity. Here we go jump only, Billy.

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Speaker 3: I have two questions for you, Okay, One, how shock

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Speaker 3: were you on a scale of one detect that I

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Speaker 3: agreed and said yes to the author of Wasteland as

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Speaker 3: a guest here on Stupotty.

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Speaker 4: I was very surprised, I would say, but also not

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Speaker 4: surprised at the same time, if that makes sense. I

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Speaker 4: was very surprised in the direction the conversation that we're

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Speaker 4: about to have the topic right, but I wasn't surprised,

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Speaker 4: And that like, you'll go on these things where you

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Speaker 4: will say yes to absolutely anyone that is pitched. And

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Speaker 4: that's kind of like when I saw it because you

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Speaker 4: said yes to this when I was away, So I

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Speaker 4: just got follow up emails like hey, can we schedule this?

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Speaker 4: Studd said yes, and I was like, he did, and

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Speaker 4: then I asked you and You're like, yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 4: really want to talk about some I'm like, okay, like

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Speaker 4: let's do it.

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Speaker 5: So Billy, he did that while you were on paternity leave,

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Speaker 5: and he did it with me, and basically he said

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Speaker 5: yes to everything and then said let Billy scheduling.

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Speaker 4: Oh great, Okay, this is starting to make more sense

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Speaker 4: now because I did.

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Speaker 2: I did a ride back.

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Speaker 4: I did a ride back to a number of emails

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Speaker 4: from the people that help us with guests booking saying

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Speaker 4: we got yeses on blah blah blah from Stugatts, and

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Speaker 4: I was like, okay, So then I scheduled all these things,

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Speaker 4: and we scheduled like three months worth of episodes, like

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Speaker 4: in the span of like two weeks. And it was

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Speaker 4: like there were just so many that part of me

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Speaker 4: was like, who's trying to pull one over on me?

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Speaker 4: Because Seut just said yes. It seems like absolutely everything.

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Speaker 4: Are the guest bookers trying to take advantage of the

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Speaker 4: fact that I was away and just telling me that

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Speaker 4: he said yes to everything? Did he just say yes

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Speaker 4: to everything because he didn't want to say no one

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Speaker 4: hurt anyone's feelings, like what happened here. By the way,

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Speaker 4: this is a great interview. So let me let me.

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Speaker 3: Not make it happen.

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Speaker 4: We're not interested that we're like laughing at the interview.

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Speaker 4: It is a good interview. It was just surprising. It

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Speaker 4: was odd for me to say yes to it. It's

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Speaker 4: something Levator would say yes to so and so. What

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Speaker 4: I'm wondering, Billy, And then from there both I'm asking

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Speaker 4: you how surprised were both of you? And how prepared

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Speaker 4: I was for this? Is even more surprised by that,

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Speaker 4: even more surprised by that because going into it, I said, Steve,

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Speaker 4: as we have this interview today, you know, make sure,

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Speaker 4: like do you know what you want to talk? You

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Speaker 4: had a list of questions you had that you wanted

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Speaker 4: to know where garbage went, You had questions about the ocean.

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Speaker 4: You had more questions and you had time to ask,

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Speaker 4: and you were very concerned about the environment, what we're

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Speaker 4: doing with trash, where it's ending up. And I was like,

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Speaker 4: who is this person?

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Speaker 5: I have a theory I want to float by, and

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Speaker 5: I tell me if I'm close here. Did you read

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Speaker 5: the title of waste Land wrong and think it was

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Speaker 5: wasted Land and it was about something else? And then

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Speaker 5: all of a sudden realize what it's about and go,

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Speaker 5: oh shit, I better do some I better do some prep.

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Speaker 5: And then you over you know, you over corrected.

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Speaker 6: I thought the book was about something else, wasted Land

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Speaker 6: maybe yeah, yep, yeah, yep.

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Speaker 3: That's exactly what happened. And then I realized, shit, I

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Speaker 3: better do some prep for this guy, because I have

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Speaker 3: no idea what's going on with garbage and what's going

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Speaker 3: on is all you.

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Speaker 5: Thought you were going to be talking dead shows and

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Speaker 5: instead you're talking about you know, earth death.

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Speaker 3: Yep.

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Speaker 4: Do you think we're the dumbest people that he's ever

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Speaker 4: spoken to?

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Speaker 3: He would be Oliver Franklin Wallace, the author of Waste Land,

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Speaker 3: who is very very smart, a very good journalist and author. Yes,

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Speaker 3: I do think I'm the dumbest person he's ever spoken to.

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Speaker 4: Yes, well, so I think he was very nice. He

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Speaker 4: was very knowledgeable when he was when he was talking

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Speaker 4: to us, it kind of reminded me of like career

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Speaker 4: day at school, you know what I mean. We're like,

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Speaker 4: you just dumb it down for children, and you explain

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Speaker 4: like what you do at a very basic level, and

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Speaker 4: you're like, here's you know, I'm a senator, this is

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Speaker 4: what I do. I go and I passed laws, and

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Speaker 4: it's like it's like a very basic thing. And it's like,

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Speaker 4: let me make sure these dumb dumbs understand just basic

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Speaker 4: information and the book that I'm trying to sell, and

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Speaker 4: then hopefully their audience will be smarter than them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yes, but mikey to your point, and we'll talk

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Speaker 3: to Oliver Franklin Wallace, the author of Wasteland. In a minute,

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Speaker 3: I thought it was a book about getting wasted.

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Speaker 5: Shouldn't he have a number at the end of his name? Like,

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Speaker 5: shouldn't he be like the third or the fourth?

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Speaker 2: Only?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Like I feel like just with a name like that,

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Speaker 5: you got to have a number at the end.

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Speaker 3: Yep. Oliver Franklin Wallace, the author of Wasteland. I've never

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Speaker 3: been I was more prepared for this than I was

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Speaker 3: for the interview I just did with Ian Rappaport on

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Speaker 3: another show, What Stupidity. Oliver Franklin Wallace is an author.

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Speaker 3: He's a very good author. He's an accomplished author, and

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Speaker 3: he has written a book called Wasteland. It's fascinating. It

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Speaker 3: is a fascinating topic. And I'm wondering, of all the things, Oliver,

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Speaker 3: you could have written about, why did you choose this?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I know. I told my friends when I started

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Speaker 7: out with this program, and they're like, I'm writing a book,

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Speaker 7: and they got so excited. They're like, what is about

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Speaker 7: And I'm like, it's about trash. And you just get

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Speaker 7: these kind of like weird looks from people, and I

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Speaker 7: would you know, I spend a lot of time going

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Speaker 7: around the world reporting and I'd be like going to

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Speaker 7: India and Ghana and all these kind of interesting places,

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Speaker 7: and people thought it was very glamorous. You know, You're

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Speaker 7: going to India and they're like, Oh, what are you

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Speaker 7: going to do in India? Are you going to go

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Speaker 7: see the taj Mahal And like, no, I'm going to

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Speaker 7: one of the world's largest landfills. But to me, that's great.

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Speaker 7: You know, this it's like an It's an interesting world.

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Speaker 7: It's not always the most glamorous place, but yeah, it's

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Speaker 7: an interesting place. To be, and it's like a side

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Speaker 7: of the world that you don't really think about until

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Speaker 7: you start thinking about what. You know, garbage cans are

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Speaker 7: like this magic trick. You put things inside it and

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Speaker 7: then they just like magically disappear. But the thing that

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Speaker 7: I was kind of fascinated by this idea that the

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Speaker 7: the you know, the disposal chain is quite often as

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Speaker 7: long and as complicated as the supply chain. And we

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Speaker 7: talk about where things come from, whether they're fair trade

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Speaker 7: or they're organic or what have you, when no one

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Speaker 7: really thinks about where they go, and quite often it's

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Speaker 7: just as long and fascinating a journey.

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Speaker 3: What's the most jaw dropping thing you discovered about the

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Speaker 3: global waste industry as you as you put this book together?

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Speaker 3: Because it is fascinating. Man, I was mortified some of

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Speaker 3: the shit that you wrote.

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Speaker 7: Can I can I swear on this podcast? Is that Okay, yes,

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Speaker 7: I think there's the sheer amount of balls in this

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Speaker 7: industry and this world kind of staggered me. Like you

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Speaker 7: look back the decades and you see, well, okay, well,

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Speaker 7: Coca Cola was making these recycling pledges in the mid

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Speaker 7: nineties and like they just didn't do it. And nobody

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Speaker 7: followed up to check, and then they were doing it

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Speaker 7: like two ninety ninety five, two thousand and five, two

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Speaker 7: thousand and seven, twenty ten. And every time you have

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Speaker 7: these big companies being like, no, no, no, we're going to

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Speaker 7: clean up our acts now, and they never, they never do,

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Speaker 7: they never, they never have done. So seeing some of

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Speaker 7: that and like we can talk about later, but like

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Speaker 7: that the fact that recycling as we know it was

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Speaker 7: kind of invented as like like greenwashing. You know, it's

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Speaker 7: like a sustainability play by big corporate to get away

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Speaker 7: with like essentially dumping a lot of their products on

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Speaker 7: us without being legislated against. So there's kind of this

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Speaker 7: fascinating history. But if you want to talk about the number,

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Speaker 7: like the sheer numbers, the scale is kind of wild.

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Speaker 7: One of my favorite ones is that we throw away

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Speaker 7: about a third of all food grown worldwide, which means

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Speaker 7: which is like a staggering figure when you got eight

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Speaker 7: hundred and twenty million starving people in the world, But

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Speaker 7: when you actually think about the farmland wasted, that means

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Speaker 7: like twenty percent of I think it's the figure of

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Speaker 7: twenty eight percent of all farmland is used to grow

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Speaker 7: food that's never eaten. And if you counted up all

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Speaker 7: those acres, all those hectares, it would cover the entire

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Speaker 7: subcontinent of India. So you like think of the amount

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Speaker 7: of farmland that we literally are just totally wasting, and

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Speaker 7: it kind of explodes your brain a little bit.

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Speaker 3: I think you just exploded Billy's brain and mikeye, they

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Speaker 3: both at the same reaction. Happened to the both of

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Speaker 3: you right there. It's crazy, right, I mean, what happens

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Speaker 3: to it all? Like all this food is getting grown,

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Speaker 3: Like what happens to it?

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Speaker 7: Oh? Well, I mean things get wasted for so many reasons.

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Speaker 7: You know, this thing like farm loss on farm is

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Speaker 7: like a big, a big thing that we don't talk

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Speaker 7: about a lot. You know, some of this stuff happens

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Speaker 7: by natural disaster or things like that, but a big thing.

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Speaker 7: And the thing that kind of really appalled me in

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Speaker 7: the book is, you know, retailers will tell you that

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Speaker 7: most of the stuff we throw away, in the case

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Speaker 7: of food, happens at home. Right, you buy too much food,

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Speaker 7: it sits rots away in the fridge. You get to

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Speaker 7: the end of the month and things a little bit funky,

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Speaker 7: and you end up throwing away three quarters of your

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Speaker 7: bag of salad or whatever, and your bread like old,

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Speaker 7: moldy loads of bread and all this kind of stuff

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Speaker 7: that gets thrown away. But then there's kind of these

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Speaker 7: little pockets of things and you realize, you know, how

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Speaker 7: much restaurants and the fast food industry and those kind

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Speaker 7: of things that the waste on that scale is right.

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Speaker 7: So for example, like you have these little little light

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Speaker 7: bulb moments. So for example, I remember reading or noticing

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Speaker 7: for the first time that if you go into a

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Speaker 7: shop and buy a sandwich, like I don't know if

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Speaker 7: this is a big thing in US, if you like

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Speaker 7: buy a pack like a sandwich in a packet, like

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Speaker 7: they never make them with the crusts, so like there's

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Speaker 7: like where do all the crusts go? And then you

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Speaker 7: add it all up and it's like something like four

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Speaker 7: hundred thousand loads of bread worth of crusts in the

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Speaker 7: UK alone to throw away every year, just by like

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Speaker 7: the package sandwich industry, and you're like, holy goodness, you

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Speaker 7: know they're just those kind of tiny things, and you

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Speaker 7: realize the scale of the waste, and you want to

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Speaker 7: talk about farmers. Farmers are obsessed with this stuff. Right,

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Speaker 7: because I would go to the book, I went to

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Speaker 7: farms and saw the scale of like the industrial amount

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Speaker 7: of vegetables and stuff that goes to waste and it's

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Speaker 7: just left rotting in the fields. And one of the

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Speaker 7: couple of main reasons one is that big retailers have

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Speaker 7: these crazy cosmetic standards, like they won't sell on apple

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Speaker 7: that has a blemish on it, so everything has to

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Speaker 7: be perfect in the same uniform size and shape and

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Speaker 7: getting things to reach something. You know, if you want

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Speaker 7: to sell your produce in whole foods, it's got to

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Speaker 7: be beautiful. That's not beautiful. Chances are it's going to

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Speaker 7: you know, it's getting dug back into the soil, or

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Speaker 7: it's going in the blunder. And you know when you

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Speaker 7: the second thing that you have is you get your

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Speaker 7: huge retailers and they sign these contracts with farmers which say, Okay,

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Speaker 7: we're gonna have we're gonna want one hundred thousand tons

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Speaker 7: of Okrah or whatever this season, and then suddenly the

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Speaker 7: weather changes or like they see some buying pattern change,

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Speaker 7: and they'll just be like, oh, actually, we only ever

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Speaker 7: wanted eight hundred thousand tons or whatever, and so they'll

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Speaker 7: cut the order by twenty percent, and by then it's

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Speaker 7: already in the ground and it's too late for the

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Speaker 7: farmers to really do anything, like they're scrambling around trying

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Speaker 7: to find a market for it. So a huge amount

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Speaker 7: of food waste happens because of like just the weirdly

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Speaker 7: economics of like food growing and farmers. So farmers are

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Speaker 7: like living the stuff day to day. And if you

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Speaker 7: went across the Midwest or anywhere in the UK, they

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Speaker 7: would tell you that it's that it's kind of wilder

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Speaker 7: than even though you think.

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Speaker 3: You talked about coke earlier and I think you call it,

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Speaker 3: you call it greenwashing recycling. Can you explain to people

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Speaker 3: in Layman's Turn exactly what it is Coca Cola was doing?

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Speaker 7: Yeah? Sure, I mean, so Coca Cola produces a very

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Speaker 7: large number of It's the exact tannage and the number

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Speaker 7: of bottles is in the book, but there's about four

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Speaker 7: hundred and eighty billion I think plastic bottles sold worldwide

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Speaker 7: every year. If you want to kind of try and

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Speaker 7: visualize that. I worked out how many times that would

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Speaker 7: stretch you to the moon and back. But it's more

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Speaker 7: than a couple of times. But you know, Coca Cola

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Speaker 7: for a long time have pledged that, Okay, we're going

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Speaker 7: to put some recycled plastic in our bottles to try

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Speaker 7: and minimize the amount of virgin plastic and therefore fossil

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Speaker 7: fuels with money from the ground. Every time they've made

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Speaker 7: that pledge, so far, they haven't made it as far

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Speaker 7: as I As far as I know, I'm not up

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Speaker 7: to date with their most recent pledge, but it seems

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Speaker 7: unlikely to me, so yeah, I mean, and that's the long, long, long,

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Speaker 7: the latest like and a long long line of corporate

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Speaker 7: green washing with our waist that goes back to the

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Speaker 7: nineteen fifties because after the Second World War, we had

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Speaker 7: the kind of consumer great Golden Era consumer boot, and

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Speaker 7: suddenly we had all these white goods and plastics which

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Speaker 7: basically didn't exist prior to that at any kind of

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Speaker 7: scale happened. You know, I talk about in the book

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Speaker 7: that for the idea of disposables, like disposable packaging, disposable cutlery,

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Speaker 7: those kind of things didn't really exist until basically in

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Speaker 7: the nineteen forties, when you have the arrival of the

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Speaker 7: disposable diaper. Before that, it meant like extra a nice bonus.

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Speaker 7: So you talk about people's disposable income, they weren't really

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Speaker 7: using it as like this disposable forks weren't really a

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Speaker 7: thing in the same way. Right, So we have, as

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Speaker 7: you know, the global North, all of these economies are like, okay,

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Speaker 7: what do we do with all this stuff? And there

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Speaker 7: was a push to legislate to pet basically and make

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Speaker 7: companies pay their way in paying money towards the waste

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Speaker 7: disposal system to make sure that it was getting getting

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Speaker 7: disposed of instead of ending up in like highway hedgerows

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Speaker 7: and you know, in the environment. And a few of

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Speaker 7: the packaging companies got together and they formed this action

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Speaker 7: group called Keep America Beautiful. And one of the things

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Speaker 7: that this action group did was it launched very famous

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Speaker 7: series of ads. There's a very famous ad with like

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Speaker 7: a c called the Crying Indian Ad. But it basically

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Speaker 7: said that the problem was going due to litterers. And

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Speaker 7: they invented this term the litter bug who and the

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Speaker 7: litter bug was the person who was filling the environment

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Speaker 7: with all this stuff and not the companies who are

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Speaker 7: kind of pumping them out into the world. Knowing that

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Speaker 7: they were essentially you know, never going to buy at

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Speaker 7: a grade, and you had similar campaigns that that was

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Speaker 7: very successful, had similar campaigns all over the western world,

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Speaker 7: the global North, and we kind of still live with

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Speaker 7: that attitude to waste now. Like it's a little bit

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Speaker 7: like a lot of people don't know, for example, that

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Speaker 7: the carbon footprint was an idea popularized by the oil

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Speaker 7: company British Petroleum, Like that's we all talk about carbon

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Speaker 7: footprint because of the oil industry wanted to basically blame

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Speaker 7: it all on us. So it's a very similar thing

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Speaker 7: happened with waste and we're kind of still living with

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Speaker 7: the repercussions.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 7: Anytime we have a big discussion around okay, well why

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Speaker 7: is there all of this plastic in our oceans, it's

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Speaker 7: kind of like, well, we need to do better jobs

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Speaker 7: like washing out our yogurt pots and not okay, well,

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Speaker 7: maybe we need to find a way to make sure

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Speaker 7: that we know was waste collection is funded all around

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Speaker 7: the global South where but only like two billion people

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Speaker 7: don't have any kind of formalized waste collection at all.

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Speaker 7: So the idea of the garbage man is just alien

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Speaker 7: and huge parts of the world, which is something that

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Speaker 7: blew my mind, and I think blows all other people's

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Speaker 7: minds when you think about it, and you want to

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Speaker 7: know why the ocean is fall of plastic, it's because

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Speaker 7: two billion people don't have trash collection, so it ends

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Speaker 7: up in the environment, which is a huge environmental and

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Speaker 7: human challenge.

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Speaker 4: So littering's fine then, because it's really the companies that

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Speaker 4: are to blame.

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Speaker 3: That's what you're saying.

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Speaker 7: I don't think is quite what I said. I mean,

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Speaker 7: for real, though.

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Speaker 3: It's not our fault, that's all right.

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Speaker 7: Well, I just think that like sometimes we are convinced

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Speaker 7: that like the answer is to buy more stuff or

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Speaker 7: like feel guilty about the things that you're the tiny

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Speaker 7: things that you're doing in your life, when the reality is,

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Speaker 7: like if the procurement guy Nike or the procure you

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Speaker 7: know that someone who's in packaging design at Coca Cola

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Speaker 7: makes one slightly different decision on a Thursday morning design meeting,

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Speaker 7: they can kind of save more plastic than every single

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Speaker 7: person you know, recycling all of their plastic pots in

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Speaker 7: the entire country. You know, So like the the I'm

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Speaker 7: not saying that you should letter, I'm just saying, like

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Speaker 7: the people who can really make a difference. You know,

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Speaker 7: it's not it's it's not you're not going to solve

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Speaker 7: this problem in the grocery aisle.

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Speaker 4: Well to not be grimed, then, like, there's not a

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Speaker 4: whole lot that we as average citizens can really do

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Speaker 4: to solve this problem because it's bigger than us.

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Speaker 7: Well, I think that. I don't think that that's true.

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Speaker 4: I don't mean it to say like why even bother trying,

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Speaker 4: you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not.

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Speaker 4: It's not like a thing where it's like I can

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Speaker 4: go out and I have to recycle every day and

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Speaker 4: I will solve this problem on my own because it's

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Speaker 4: bigger than that.

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Speaker 3: It's way bigger than that. Yeah.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, And I do think that there's this this kind

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Speaker 7: of challenge which is people, you know, I talk to

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Speaker 7: people about this and they're like, Okay, well I can

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Speaker 7: do And I'm like, well, you can do a lot

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Speaker 7: of stuff. You can. You know, first of all, you

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Speaker 7: could buy less stuff that you don't need, which is

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Speaker 7: which I'm sure we'll talk about later. But you know,

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Speaker 7: you can recycle effectively, and you can reuse and repair things,

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Speaker 7: and we can do you know, do all of the

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Speaker 7: things that would be kind of better for the environment.

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Speaker 7: But I'm saying, like, individually, you're not going to solve

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Speaker 7: the problem because of you know, if you just talk

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Speaker 7: about the rate of growth in waste production in the

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Speaker 7: global South, for example, one point three billion extra tons

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Speaker 7: of waste being produced globally by twenty fifty, I think

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Speaker 7: is the World Bank production. So that doesn't all mean

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Speaker 7: that we should like see climate change and be like, oh,

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Speaker 7: I'm not going to buy an electric car because I

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Speaker 7: you know, it's not going to solve drop in the ocean.

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Speaker 7: We all have a collective responsibility to do it, for sure.

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Speaker 7: I think that the thing that we need to sometimes

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Speaker 7: be mindful of is solutions that like involve us buying,

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Speaker 7: like buying new stuff. Okay, just buy this expensive tope bag,

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Speaker 7: buy this expensive water bottle or whatever, and you'll feel

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Speaker 7: better and like not dealing with the systemic issues. A

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Speaker 7: lot of people come to me and they're like, oh, well,

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Speaker 7: recycling's broken, so we just shouldn't bother. I'm like, no, no,

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Speaker 7: recycling's broken, so we should fix it. You know, if

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Speaker 7: I told you that clothing is made in sweatshop, your

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Speaker 7: response is, oh, well, I'm going to stop buying shoes.

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Speaker 7: You're like, well, no, because you need shoes, You're going

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Speaker 7: to find ethical ways to produce shoes and maybe pay

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Speaker 7: those people a bit better. So I think that we

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Speaker 7: need to kind of have this approach of Okay, let's

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Speaker 7: iterate and fix problems rather than you know, abandoning them

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Speaker 7: or wholesale and like, let's just tone the rectoric down

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Speaker 7: a little bit. See where the things are broken and

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Speaker 7: the opportunities to fix it, because there are opportunities to

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Speaker 7: fix it. And I talk about some of them a book,

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Speaker 7: and I'm sure we'll talk about some of them here.

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Speaker 3: The book is Wasteland. Check it out. It's pretty fascinating.

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Speaker 2: Man.

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Speaker 3: Oliver Franklin Wallace is the author. He's with us right

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Speaker 3: now here. Odds to potty, who's trying to fix it?

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Speaker 3: Like who is?

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Speaker 7: Like?

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Speaker 3: What is trying?

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Speaker 6: Like?

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Speaker 3: What are people trying to do? I mean trying to

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Speaker 3: do it?

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Speaker 7: The crazy thing is that every like this, it feels well.

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Speaker 7: I started this book back in twenty nineteen, which feels

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Speaker 7: like a long time ago to me. I've had like

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Speaker 7: an extra kid and stuff since then. In the pre

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Speaker 7: pandemic days, it feels like a long time pre pandemic

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Speaker 7: feels a lifetime ago. How many kids do you have,

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Speaker 7: I've got two waiting, just wait exactly exactly, and yes

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Speaker 7: they like my younger still has disposable and mathiss so

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Speaker 7: you can hang me for it. But like the the

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Speaker 7: the crazy thing is like the rate seeing the rate

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Speaker 7: of change is wild. You know, you and I are

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Speaker 7: talking here now. The UN is debating a plastics convention,

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Speaker 7: which when I started this book just seemed totally unthinkable.

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Speaker 7: And if you talk to activists in this space, they've

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Speaker 7: been like, there's no way that's going to happen. You

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Speaker 7: have like state legislatures in the US passing right to

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Speaker 7: repair laws saying to you know, big tractor companies and

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Speaker 7: car companies, okay, you own phone companies, Okay, you've got

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Speaker 7: to make things and let us repair them, and standing

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Speaker 7: up to the corporate interests so we're trying to sell

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Speaker 7: you stuff and like that you're locked into and can

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Speaker 7: can't be fixed anymore. So to see the groundswell of

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Speaker 7: support for some of this stuff has been has been

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Speaker 7: crazy and really encouraging, you know, like because because to me,

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Speaker 7: we talk about climate change a lot, and people say, well,

436
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:52,879
Speaker 7: why would you fight, you know, on their bigger things

437
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,159
Speaker 7: that you want to worry about than than waste. And

438
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,440
Speaker 7: I'm like, well, food waste. The IPCC reckons that food

439
00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:00,600
Speaker 7: waste is about eight percent of all global SEO to

440
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:04,080
Speaker 7: a mission, so all go global greenhouse gas missions. So

441
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,720
Speaker 7: you can simultaneously feed hungry people and solve the climate

442
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:09,879
Speaker 7: change problem just by throwing less food away. That seems

443
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,480
Speaker 7: like a super easy win, right, This is the low

444
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,840
Speaker 7: hanging fruit stuff. Solid waste is five percent of all

445
00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,800
Speaker 7: like global greenhouse gases. That's more than the entire shipping

446
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:22,480
Speaker 7: and aviation industry combined. So like when we talk about

447
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,520
Speaker 7: the scale of these problems is gigantic, So this should

448
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,280
Speaker 7: be that these are the easy things to fix and

449
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,879
Speaker 7: it's much easier to get people if we touch this

450
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:32,879
Speaker 7: stuff every day. We are all dealing with it on

451
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:35,199
Speaker 7: a day to day basis. Everything in those rooms. I

452
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,320
Speaker 7: could see you guys in your rooms, Everything around you

453
00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:39,280
Speaker 7: is going to be trashed one day, right, Like, so

454
00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:41,359
Speaker 7: we are all living this stuff every day. If we

455
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,320
Speaker 7: can't solve that problem, how are you going to deal

456
00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:47,640
Speaker 7: with invisible emissions going out of some factory in Indonesia

457
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:49,720
Speaker 7: or China or something. So to me, it's like an

458
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:51,280
Speaker 7: opportunity rather than a problem.

459
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:53,880
Speaker 3: Billy's a hoarder, Is he doing it correctly? He will

460
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:54,720
Speaker 3: throw anything away.

461
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:56,760
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, if I just collect a bunch of stuff

462
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:58,520
Speaker 4: but never throw it away, am I doing a good

463
00:20:58,520 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 4: thing for the environment.

464
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:02,200
Speaker 7: Well, it's not as long as it's not decomposing, I

465
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:02,840
Speaker 7: would say, yeah.

466
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:03,160
Speaker 2: Maybe.

467
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,040
Speaker 7: I mean the chapter that the real talk answer to

468
00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:08,600
Speaker 7: that is, like the majority of the waste that is

469
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:14,400
Speaker 7: produced in our like in our economy is produced up

470
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,640
Speaker 7: like upwind from US, up up the chain from US.

471
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,879
Speaker 7: Ninety seven percent. There's this estimate, and it's a bit

472
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:24,320
Speaker 7: outdated and it's not precise, but you can use like

473
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,040
Speaker 7: the Canadian figures, which is like ninety seven percent of

474
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,159
Speaker 7: all waste produced by weight is industrial waste. Which is

475
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,199
Speaker 7: another thing where like people say, well, it's all all

476
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 7: very well, saying, you know, buy less stuff. But I'm like,

477
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:35,960
Speaker 7: if you really want to make a difference, you could

478
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,800
Speaker 7: just you know, buy one less thing to hoard, and

479
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,440
Speaker 7: that will probably offset the majority of the other things

480
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,760
Speaker 7: things that you're doing now I use any I like

481
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:46,399
Speaker 7: to use the example when I talk to people about

482
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,280
Speaker 7: you know, but I said, buying less stuff that doesn't

483
00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:50,399
Speaker 7: sound very exciting, and I said, well, no, buy better

484
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 7: stuff like if you can, because not everyone can. But

485
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,439
Speaker 7: as like, if if we all thought about stuff. You

486
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,160
Speaker 7: take a classic car community, right, you see guys who

487
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 7: are like really either go like a sixties Mustang and

488
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:03,280
Speaker 7: they take really good care of it an hourut there

489
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 7: every Sunday, waxing it and buffing it, and you know,

490
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,560
Speaker 7: maybe they've carefully repaired the engine or sometimes that. Like

491
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:11,399
Speaker 7: you see these communities and they're like upgrading them to

492
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:15,359
Speaker 7: electric engines and stuff now. And that guy who hasn't

493
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,639
Speaker 7: changed his car since the nineteen sixties has probably got

494
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,440
Speaker 7: a lower carbon footprint than the guy driving the brand

495
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 7: uprius because they've had like four cars in the intervening years,

496
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 7: and the embodied carbon in those four cars like offsets

497
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,600
Speaker 7: the less efficient engine of this sixties card you're driving, right. So,

498
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 7: but what I'm trying to say is I'm not saying

499
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,920
Speaker 7: everyone should drive nineteen sixties gas guzzlers. I'm saying like,

500
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 7: if we took a little bit of care and look

501
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,399
Speaker 7: looked after stuff long term, not only do you get

502
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,879
Speaker 7: a better carbon you know, you get better carbon emissions,

503
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,119
Speaker 7: but you also get things that you love and then

504
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:50,679
Speaker 7: are beautiful and that you take pride in and likes.

505
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,200
Speaker 7: There's value in that that I feel like sometimes we've

506
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 7: lost in our like super fast consumer society. When's the

507
00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 7: last time you bought a T shirt that you like,

508
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,120
Speaker 7: really loved, you know, from the local store that cost

509
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:03,439
Speaker 7: you five dollars or whatever, and I was made in

510
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,639
Speaker 7: a banglad actually like fast fashion factory. So if we

511
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,160
Speaker 7: can rekind of get back a little bit of that

512
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,639
Speaker 7: care for our things, I think that everyone's kind of

513
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,400
Speaker 7: better off in a lot of ways, and spiritually among them.

514
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,119
Speaker 3: You see, Well, maybe angry is the wrong word. You

515
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 3: seem frustrated because there seems to be some easy state

516
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 3: steps we all can take, and yet we're not taking them.

517
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 3: Is that is that accurate? Yeah?

518
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,640
Speaker 7: I don't. I am angry in some ways, like I'm

519
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,439
Speaker 7: not going to be when you see some of the

520
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 7: stuff that goes on in this world. It's not like

521
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 7: some of the greenwashing, you know. It really frustrates me

522
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 7: when I see big companies, like big these big international

523
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 7: conglomerates in the West talking up there like latest recycling

524
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 7: like initiatives or whatever. And at the same time, like

525
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 7: with the other hand, they're like pumping billions of plastic

526
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,400
Speaker 7: sachets into economies like India and stuff in the Global South,

527
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:51,360
Speaker 7: and that they know aren't recyclable and like not doing

528
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:55,119
Speaker 7: anything about it, and that is like rampant. So things

529
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,119
Speaker 7: like that do get me like fired up, and I

530
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,199
Speaker 7: think we should all care about it. So there's that

531
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 7: side of things. But I think the thing that one

532
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 7: of the things that made me most kind of moved

533
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,360
Speaker 7: and agitated in this story is, you know, there's there's

534
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 7: a chapter in the book I went to Ghana. People

535
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 7: don't know Gana as a country in West Africa, and

536
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 7: to write about thrift store donations. Now, most people don't

537
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 7: know that when you donate stuff to a thrift store,

538
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 7: only about between ten and thirty percent of that stuff

539
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,640
Speaker 7: is actually resold in store. The majority of what it's

540
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 7: sent to these kind of big warehouses where it's like

541
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 7: sorted and graded, and then it's exported to the to

542
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 7: the Global South, to the developing world, and there's a

543
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 7: huge you know, see this the secondhand is like a

544
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 7: huge global economy, not just clothes, electronics, cars, everything, you know,

545
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 7: like lots of things have these second lives in the

546
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 7: Global South that you never see now in countries like Africa,

547
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,640
Speaker 7: and in like like Ghana in Africa and across West Africa.

548
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 7: They have been flooded since, particularly since the nineteen eighties,

549
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 7: with more more clothing donations, and a lot of what

550
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 7: we donate now is fast fashion. By fast fashion, I

551
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:06,400
Speaker 7: mean the kind of stuff that you buy from Nahu

552
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 7: and Air or Azara. It's cheaply made, quickly made, and

553
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 7: it's designed to be used a couple of times and

554
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 7: then thrown away. And there is now so much stuff

555
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 7: flooding these economies that they basically can't possibly use it all.

556
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 7: So I met the guy who deals, the guy in

557
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 7: charge of the sanitation department of Akra, which is the

558
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 7: capital of Ghana, and he told me that they have

559
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 7: this one sanitary landfill for the entire city. Like a

560
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 7: sanitary landfill is one that's kind of safe and you know,

561
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 7: environmentally sound, and it was paid for with this loan

562
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 7: from the World Bank, and it was designed to last

563
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 7: about thirty years, and they filled it up in about

564
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 7: three and a half with all of this clothing waste.

565
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 7: And now inevitably when this clothing waste, a lot of

566
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:46,479
Speaker 7: the time there's like plastic fibers and other stuff going in.

567
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 7: It burns very well, and you're dealing with a very

568
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 7: hot country. The entire thing caught fire and burned to

569
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 7: the ground. This guy, this guy is like a burly

570
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 7: guy in his forties who's crying telling me this story.

571
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 7: And he said, you know, he said, so the people

572
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 7: of Ghana, who are some of the poorest people in

573
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 7: the world, are still going to be paying interest for

574
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 7: the next twenty years on a landfill that we can't

575
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 7: use because you sent us all of your garbage, because

576
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 7: it's filled with your garbage. And he was like, why

577
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 7: are we paying for your waste? And the answer is like,

578
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 7: I genuinely don't know, but I do know that when

579
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 7: companies do pay into these things called extended producer responsibility schemes,

580
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 7: so companies pay a little bit of extra money and

581
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 7: it goes towards trash collection. Most of that money tends

582
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 7: to stay in the global north, in the rich countries,

583
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 7: right and these you know, these poor countries aren't seeing

584
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:42,239
Speaker 7: any of that stuff. But that's where it ends up.

585
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 7: So to me, I think that any solutions we're talking

586
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 7: about the UN and these international treaties and stuff, any

587
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 7: solutions to these problems. Need to make sure the money

588
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 7: is going to the people who need it and where

589
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,919
Speaker 7: this stuff is ending up, because you see these places

590
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:58,680
Speaker 7: and the reality is horrifying.

591
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 3: What's the What's the place you've seen and the thing

592
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 3: you've seen as you were putting this together, that was

593
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 3: the toughest thing for you to see? Was it?

594
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 6: That?

595
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 3: Was it? Something else?

596
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 2: No?

597
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 7: I mean, anytime you deal with with wastes, you're dealing

598
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 7: with some of the world's poorest people. You know. I

599
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 7: went to India. India is now the world's most populous

600
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 7: country as of earlier this year. It has a huge

601
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 7: waste problem, you know, the explosion of people. It's gone

602
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 7: from being very poor to now kind of having this

603
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 7: big disparity between the richest there and the poorest who

604
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,159
Speaker 7: are still extraordinarily poor. And I went to this landfill

605
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 7: called Gazapor, which is on the outskirts of New Delhi,

606
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 7: and this thing is I describe it as the mountain

607
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,159
Speaker 7: in the book, but I genuinely mean that it's like

608
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 7: two hundred feet tall. You can it's like the size

609
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,160
Speaker 7: of several thousand football fields. You can see it from

610
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 7: miles away, like it looks it genuinely looks like a

611
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 7: small mountain that you can see like looming across the

612
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:58,199
Speaker 7: end of the city. And there are hundreds, if not

613
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 7: thousands of people living in on essentially on a town,

614
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 7: on this landfill. And their job is to, you know,

615
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 7: they make their livelihoods by picking out recyclables from this

616
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 7: weight and selling them onto the recycling marct Onto recycling

617
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 7: dealers and waste pickers like this are pretty common for

618
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 7: much of the world across the global South, South America,

619
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 7: Central America, Southeast Asia. And you know, to tell you

620
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 7: these people are poor is kind of grossly oversimplifying things.

621
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 7: You know, we're talking people living eight people to a room,

622
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,479
Speaker 7: that kind of thing. And I met this mother and

623
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 7: the kids were playing with the stuff that had been

624
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 7: thrown away, like they were taking toys out the trash.

625
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 7: They were blowing like what these little kids were taking

626
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 7: out bubble mixture from the trash and like finding the

627
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 7: little stuff left over in the jar and blowing it.

628
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 7: And I was talking to their parents, and the mum said,

629
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 7: you know, my daughters take them with you, you know.

630
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 7: And so when someone's offers you their kids, you know,

631
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 7: because they know that they have very little hope of

632
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 7: battering themselves and their and their life. It's very difficult

633
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 7: as a journalist, as a person, as a human being

634
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 7: to know what to say in those moments. So so

635
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 7: moments like that when I was in when I was

636
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 7: in Akra, I was in an informal settlement. Don't call

637
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 7: them slums anymore, but that's essentially what it is called

638
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 7: old Old Fatimah, which is on this lagoon in the

639
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 7: city is where some of the again some of the

640
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 7: poorest people in Akra liv and this guy so so,

641
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 7: something that interesting happened there in the last few years,

642
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 7: which was there was this big slum called Agua Bloshie,

643
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 7: which was a processing hub for electronics waste. A lot

644
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 7: of electronics were going there and people were essentially like

645
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 7: burning the wires apart and basically stripping them, stripping them

646
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 7: for the metals, because metals are very valuable wherever you

647
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 7: go in the world. But it became this kind of

648
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,239
Speaker 7: like viral YouTube sensation. A bunually like youtubees turned up,

649
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 7: YouTubers turned up with their camera and kind of shot

650
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 7: these kind of horrifying footage of like teenagers burning like

651
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 7: toxic fumes. And so what the government did was it

652
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 7: basically rolled in during the pandemic and bull builders of

653
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 7: the whole place to the great because partly because it

654
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 7: was like giving them a bad reputation. And when I

655
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 7: came at like the locals were absolutely furious and they

656
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 7: were like, what the hell are you doing here? He's

657
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 7: just going to betray you, like, don't talk to him.

658
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 7: And I had to be like, you know what, they're right, Like,

659
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 7: what I'm doing is not going to directly help you.

660
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 7: Like my hope is that I can affect policy change

661
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:20,719
Speaker 7: and things like that. But as a journalist, you come

662
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 7: into these places. I'm not an NGO, I'm not Green Peace,

663
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 7: I don't have a big check book. I'm not the

664
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 7: Bill Gates Foundation. And that's that's difficult. It's a difficult

665
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 7: thing to do and to face. And I hope I

666
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 7: can be upfront. I was upfront with them about it,

667
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 7: and I can be upfront with the reader about what

668
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 7: they're seeing and who really had the power to make change,

669
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 7: because I'm hoping that the people who read this book

670
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 7: feel moved enough to make a difference for those people,

671
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 7: because you know, I'm I'm just a guy with a

672
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 7: pen and notepad.

673
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 3: A lot of the time Oliver Franklin Wallace. The book

674
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 3: is Wasteland. It's available now wherever you buy your books.

675
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 3: Top three things you want the audience to know. Our

676
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 3: audience to know about this book, Top three most I

677
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 3: know it's like it's tough. But if you had three

678
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 3: things you could tell the audience right now, what would

679
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 3: you tell.

680
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 7: That's a very good question. You'll put me on the

681
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 7: spot here, So I'll give you three kind of quick, quick,

682
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 7: quick and easy solutions.

683
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 3: Because these guys know me and I'm not Usually this

684
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 3: is not a subject I would normally like agree to

685
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 3: do an interview on. But this is good, Like it's

686
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 3: fascinating to me and it's jarring, and so I want

687
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 3: the audience to know, like what they could do to to,

688
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 3: you know, help stop it. What they should know you

689
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 3: know for.

690
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 7: Sure, for sure, And I think it's a really it's

691
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 7: a really good question. The first thing would be bary

692
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 7: less and buy better. We'll kind of we talked a

693
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 7: little bit about that already. The second thing would be

694
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 7: like learn to repair stuff, like like like find something

695
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 7: in your life that you don't have to like start

696
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 7: done in your socks. But you know, if you've got

697
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 7: a games console. I recently, you know, I've got a

698
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 7: Nintendo I'd swapped out the controllers, recently repaired those something

699
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 7: a lot of your listeners will probably relate to little

700
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 7: things like that, a skill that you can learn and

701
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 7: make things last longer and actually have like an outsized impact.

702
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 7: The last thing, which is maybe slightly less obvious, and

703
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 7: this is more of a kind of global call butt

704
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 7: like demand that companies and the waste industry tell the truth.

705
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 7: One of the kind of most profound things and shocking

706
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 7: things for me in this whole journey was I found

707
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 7: out that essentially countries like the UK and the US,

708
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 7: they publish these this data about how much stuff is

709
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 7: being recycled. And we talked a lot about recycling their books,

710
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 7: not just about that. There's a whole chapter on nuclear

711
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 7: waste and the sewage and all kinds of wild stuff,

712
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 7: and there are big incinerators and things, but we have

713
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 7: this recycling with a national recycling rate. And the thing

714
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 7: that I basically found out is that this whole the

715
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 7: entire way that we measure recycling is based on this

716
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 7: fundamental lie. And the reason it's based on a fundamental

717
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 7: lie is this is that they count something as recycled

718
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 7: basically when it goes through the front door of the factory.

719
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 7: Either you picture the garbage the truck it pulled in

720
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 7: the front door of the factory, and someone ticks a

721
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 7: box and says, yep, that was recycled. They don't measure it,

722
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 7: so it's an input measure. They don't measure what's actually

723
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 7: being recycled there and coming out the other side. And

724
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 7: so I went to this huge, gleaming new factor like

725
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 7: plastics recycling facility in the UK that does plastic bottles,

726
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 7: you know, soda soda bottles. They're like one of the

727
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 7: most common forms of waste we throw away. And they

728
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 7: were like, I was like, okay, what's your what's your yield?

729
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:24,959
Speaker 7: Like how much are you actually recycling? And they were

730
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 7: like about fifty percent. So the actual recycling rate is

731
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 7: half what we are all. We're all like sitting around

732
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 7: here claiming it is.

733
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 2: Now.

734
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 7: What's wild to me is that there are like internationally

735
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 7: bind like legally binding international treaties that are based on

736
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 7: these these recycling figures. Like the EU, every country is

737
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 7: like pledged to reach to fifty percent recycling rate by

738
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 7: I think it's twenty thirty and like we can't even

739
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 7: tell the truth about that, do you know what I mean?

740
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 7: Like the if your first thing, they they you ship

741
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 7: a container full of waste to a port and it

742
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 7: gets loaded onto a ship to China, and like literally

743
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 7: the moment the ship take sets off into the distance

744
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 7: is tick. It's been recycled and no one's ever checking,

745
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 7: like what's happening at the other side. And then you

746
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 7: see this footage of these fields of waste in like

747
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 7: China and Turkey and stuff that's just being burned in

748
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,879
Speaker 7: open fields. You're like, this is wild. So the biggest

749
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 7: like most obvious, but this probably feels like a basic answer,

750
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 7: But the biggest thing is like we just need to

751
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:21,839
Speaker 7: tell the truth and like get a sense of what's

752
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 7: actually happening to the stuff, because a lot of the

753
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 7: time it's just it's just lies. It's like all the

754
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 7: way down the truth. Isn't there something as basic as

755
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 7: let's find out how much of this stuff is actually

756
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 7: being recycled, what actually is happening to the stuff we

757
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 7: throw away?

758
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,760
Speaker 3: You're angry and you should be. Now you're making me angry.

759
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,839
Speaker 7: Well, yeah, I hope I hope people read this, Like, yeah,

760
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 7: everyone's talked to her. I tell this stuff that they

761
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 7: get pretty mad too, I should say. It's like it's

762
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 7: not all depressing, it's fun. And you know, I went

763
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 7: I went dumpster diving. You know, you go dumps to

764
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 7: diving with freegans and all this kind of stuff, and

765
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 7: there's there's like there's fun parts of the journey that

766
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 7: the have been in the people that I've met along

767
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 7: the way who become friends and things. So it has

768
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 7: been fun to me.

769
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 4: But yeah, like yeah, anyway, peak Billy is carry I

770
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 4: saw him break up there and a dumpster.

771
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 3: Any good finds.

772
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 4: What do we see there?

773
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 7: I mean the stuff that I was doing that Like

774
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 7: dumpster divers are kind of weird because weird because the

775
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 7: dumbs divers, but like often they have like this like

776
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 7: preternatural sense, Like I'll be walking down the road with

777
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 7: this guy John who I went dumb to diving with.

778
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 7: Who's Who's this? He has the record for the person

779
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 7: in the UK with the lowest carbon footprint because they

780
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 7: did this wild like weird book competition. But he's a

781
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 7: he's a he's a freagan, which means he doesn't buy

782
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 7: any food. He only eats what other stuff people throw away.

783
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 7: So his entire livelihood is fishing stuff out of bins.

784
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:48,319
Speaker 7: But he would like would be walking down a road

785
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 7: and he'd be like, oh, I think there's like I

786
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 7: think there's something good over there, and you're like you

787
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 7: would go and look inside and there'd be like all

788
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 7: these like valuable metals and stuff that he could like

789
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 7: sell to the draft dealer and that's how he makes

790
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 7: his money. But yeah, like the amount of again food

791
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 7: and stuff that people throw away. If you go down

792
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:05,319
Speaker 7: the back of a like a of a supermarket of

793
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 7: a whole foods and stuff and you open up the

794
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,359
Speaker 7: dumpsters at the end of end of time, like at

795
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 7: the end of at the end of the day, some

796
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 7: of the stuff that you get is wild, Like you

797
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:15,800
Speaker 7: could feed a whole family out of these things, and

798
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 7: it's good stuff, you know, it's like it's just just

799
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:19,720
Speaker 7: happens to have expired that day, but it's not moldy,

800
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 7: like it's just stuff that Okay, the display dates gone,

801
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 7: you're going to chuck it away. There's a wild thing

802
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,879
Speaker 7: that people don't really know about returns in the UK

803
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 7: that's made been of years a couple of years ago,

804
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 7: but a lot of companies when you send, particularly if

805
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 7: you're buying cheap stuff online and you send it back,

806
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,760
Speaker 7: the cost of them processing the returns is less valuable

807
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 7: than the stuff itself, so they just chuck it. They

808
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 7: just they just like they send it to landfill, or

809
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 7: if it's electronics, they'd send them to these facilities and

810
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,399
Speaker 7: they basically put them in giant shredders. So I went

811
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 7: to this facility out in Fresno, one of the biggest

812
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 7: electronics recycling facilities in the US, and there were stacks

813
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,919
Speaker 7: at my head height of brand new unsold TVs, still

814
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 7: the wrappers, and they were just putting them in this

815
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 7: gigantic blender. Essentially, it's like the greatest noise and it

816
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 7: like the stink and stuff, but you know, brand new

817
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 7: stuff because basically like, well it's new, you know, it's

818
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 7: it's the time when it's new season, the new stock

819
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 7: is coming in. We don't want cheap stuff on the

820
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 7: market like secondhand. They just blend the stuff like genuinely,

821
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,800
Speaker 7: and the scale of it is will blow your mind.

822
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 7: It just genuinely. This just the size of it makes

823
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 7: you feel tiny and insignificant.

824
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 5: I'll tell you what I'm doing my part. I don't

825
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 5: throw away any food.

826
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 7: Well, my kids. I've got two kids and that going

827
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:38,760
Speaker 7: through a picky eating phase. So I'm like not perfect

828
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 7: in that in that way, and I don't want, like,

829
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:42,840
Speaker 7: I don't want everyone to start thinking you have to

830
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 7: be these kind of zero waste influencers where like you're

831
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 7: only throwing away like one kiln the jar of trash

832
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 7: every year or whatever, because I just don't think.

833
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 3: I should I do with this bottle of water when

834
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 3: I'm done with it right here, the label.

835
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 7: Off crush it put the lid back on recycling.

836
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 4: Do you hate that he's using a plastic bottle?

837
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:02,399
Speaker 7: I'm sorry hugely, Like I again, I still do from

838
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 7: time to time. I try not to that he's got

839
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 7: to keep up. Yeah, good man, Yeah, but what with

840
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:13,360
Speaker 7: a bottle from Yeah, Like, I've definitely got a lot better,

841
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,360
Speaker 7: but I wouldn't say that I'm perfect, and I'm not

842
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 7: trying to be perfect, right, Like I swapped my toothbrushes

843
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 7: for wood ones instead of plastic ones. I got rid

844
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 7: of a bunch of shampoo bottles and things, and now

845
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 7: I like little things. But you know, by putting off

846
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 7: upgrading my car for like a couple of extra years,

847
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 7: I've probably saved more than I would of by like

848
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 7: giving up plastic for an entire year. So you know,

849
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 7: like that, you've got to weigh up the value, and

850
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 7: everyone's got to. If we expect everyone to live perfect lives,

851
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 7: they just give up because it's too hard, Like the

852
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 7: cards are stacked against you. So make The thing I

853
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 7: say to people is like, try and do your your best.

854
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 7: If it's something you want to do. There's loads of

855
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 7: solutions out there, and it's very easy to learn, like

856
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 7: YouTube and Reddit and the things are full of these

857
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,399
Speaker 7: spreads and there's all these Instagram accounts who can tell

858
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,879
Speaker 7: you how to live less wasteful lives. But you've got

859
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 7: to make We've got to fix the system. Like if

860
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 7: we fix the underlying system, then if that plastic bottle

861
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 7: is recycled eight times, then I'm not you know, we

862
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 7: can feel good about it, you know, I'm not. I'm

863
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 7: not saying that we need to be perfect.

864
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 4: Is moderation a good solution? So like instead of like

865
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:18,839
Speaker 4: how many pairs of sneakers should I own?

866
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 7: For example, Well that's that's really up to you. I'm

867
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 7: I'm someone who used to used to buy a lot

868
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 7: of sneakers and now I kind of every time I

869
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:30,839
Speaker 7: feel tempted, I managed to kind of fight the urge

870
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 7: a little bit more. But you know, we need we

871
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 7: all need to wear clothing. And I'm not saying that

872
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 7: you shouldn't buy things that look nice. The thing that

873
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 7: i've you know, you talk about sneakers for example. The

874
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 7: thing that I think about now is how long are

875
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 7: they going to last?

876
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 2: Me?

877
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 7: You know, like, am I going to buy something that's

878
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 7: like made a piece of crap and is going to

879
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 7: fall apart after twenty wears? Am I going to buy

880
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 7: a pair of converses and like the souls split after

881
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 7: two months and then you're throwing them away? I used

882
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 7: to wear it, wear those shoes, and you go through

883
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:58,879
Speaker 7: like two pairs a year. So I think about that now.

884
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:04,320
Speaker 7: The the footwear industry, for example, is like suddenly really big, converted,

885
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 7: like it's impossible to buy a person because now they

886
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 7: aren't recycled in some ways. So we have seen a

887
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 7: lot of progress and feels like that you might might

888
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 7: should say to the readers. My day job is I'm met.

889
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 7: I'm met editor a gqu So I like I know

890
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 7: a little bit about more than about fashion, and so

891
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 7: I understand the I understand the urge for sure.

892
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 4: Well, how many books? There's too many books?

893
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 7: You can never have too many books. They get a

894
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 7: special they get a special exemption. How many way recyclable?

895
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 4: How many wastelands there's too many wastelands?

896
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 7: I I I When people ask me to sign the book,

897
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 7: I always say to that. I always say to them

898
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:42,439
Speaker 7: all and make sure you pass it on to someone

899
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 7: else afterwards. But you know, like paper is very recyclable,

900
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 7: and I'm sure a lot of the books the paper

901
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:53,719
Speaker 7: stock is recycled, for example. So uh so, yeah, I again, books,

902
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 7: this book, this book will will will hopefully encourage other

903
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 7: benefits and so in the aggregate, it's good for you.

904
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 7: That's what that's my say.

905
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 3: I want to do your publisher.

906
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 7: By the audio book. There you go.

907
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 3: It's not really like reading, but it's okay, it's listening.

908
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, your publisher has to hate them. Whenever you sell

909
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 4: a book, you're like, why don't you give it to

910
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 4: someone else? You're like, no, no, we're selling these.

911
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 3: By five copies. It's okay, that's good.

912
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 7: I didn't tell people until let's give them the money.

913
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 3: So, Oliver, you're doing the good work. You exposed it.

914
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 3: You're telling the truth, you're trying to help out, you're

915
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 3: pitching in, you're doing your part. So well, I appreciate that.

916
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,280
Speaker 3: I don't want to feel like everybody five books a person.

917
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 3: All Right, we appreciate, we appreciate the research. We appreciate

918
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,839
Speaker 3: you educating us in the audience, and uh, keep up

919
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 3: the good work, my friend. This was it was a

920
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 3: fascinating story. It's out of it's kind of out of

921
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 3: my comfort zone. And so when I brought it to

922
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:54,799
Speaker 3: these guys and said I wanted to do it, They're like,

923
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 3: but I think we were all fascinated by this. So

924
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 3: thank you for for the research that you did here.

925
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 7: Well, I appreciate you sticking with me and giving me

926
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 7: a chance. And it's it's been nice to talk to

927
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 7: you guys. I really appreciate it.

928
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 3: We appreciate it. Man. Uh, Mike you said, by the way,

929
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 3: he feels like there should be a number after your

930
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 3: last name, like you should be a third.

931
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 7: Or Franklin Franklin will Less, yeah, or Junior. I feel

932
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 7: like if I was an NBA player, i'd have Junior

933
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 7: or something off my name. You can't see this, but

934
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 7: I was a big.

935
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,799
Speaker 3: All right, we appreciate it. Thank you so much, Thig

936
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 3: sus