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Speaker 1: First off, let me just disabuse you of the parallel

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Speaker 1: you are trying to draw between Fox News and ms

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Speaker 1: now Fox News Pedals Lives. This movement has captured the

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Speaker 1: imagination of the American public in a way that has

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Speaker 1: awoken our darkest evolutionary instincts. America is immigrants. Yes, to

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Speaker 1: be purging the country of all the brown ones is

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Speaker 1: not going to leave us with much of a company.

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Speaker 1: We as human beings need to go out for cocktails

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Speaker 1: and have more sex and do things with other human bodies.

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Speaker 2: This is Gavin Newsome.

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Speaker 1: And this is Alex Wagger.

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Speaker 2: How many was the four podcasts you had now or something?

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Speaker 2: How many NA podcasts?

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Speaker 1: I have one podcast that I'm very focused on called

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Speaker 1: Runaway Country.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad you're focused.

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Speaker 1: I am. I occasionally dip in with the boys at

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Speaker 1: Pods of America and then you know, I do Friends podcast.

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Speaker 1: I did Stacy Abrams podcast. I got an invite to

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Speaker 1: come to the mansion to sit and be, you know,

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Speaker 1: help inaugurate this beautiful studio with perfect lighting. I you know,

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Speaker 1: I have ticket will go, is what I'm saying. I

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Speaker 1: love a podcast, You love a podcast.

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Speaker 2: I love You're just done with cable cables so yesterday.

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Speaker 1: Oh god, No, I am still I'm still a senior

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Speaker 1: political analyst for MS NOW, which I may remember from

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Speaker 1: its earlier heyday as MSNBC.

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Speaker 2: And we'll get to that in a moment, get to

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Speaker 2: the whole versus MS NOW, because I'm still struggling with it.

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Speaker 2: But that's good to hear. But so, but you're still

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Speaker 2: doing that.

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Speaker 1: I'm still doing that. And then I have a substack

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Speaker 1: called how the Hell? With Alex Wagner, and then also

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Speaker 1: have a book coming out this year that I can't

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Speaker 1: talk about until I'm allowed to.

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Speaker 2: But for how many books have you written?

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Speaker 1: This is my second ill fated attempt at writing a book.

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Speaker 2: You did one about Future Face Future.

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Speaker 1: Face, which is a story about identity and how we

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Speaker 1: sort of decide and tell ourselves who is American and

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Speaker 1: who isn't. And it's largely autobiographical, so it's insanely boring.

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Speaker 2: I appreciate you saying that for different reasons, because I'm

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Speaker 2: coming out with my own book and I'm concerned about

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Speaker 2: similar fate.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Oh, you're maybe of slightly more interesting.

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Speaker 2: I don't know about that, but I'm going to talk

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Speaker 2: about you because I think your background is what.

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Speaker 1: Makes me very uncomfortable to talk mostly about.

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Speaker 2: My I notice your physiology has changed.

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Speaker 1: I'm like grabbing my neck.

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Speaker 2: Your arms are crossed. Yeah, just deep breasts slowly and slowly. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Is that your recommendations?

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Speaker 2: Wim hop, I do, wim hop briefing you do, any

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Speaker 2: breathing you do? The cold literally on New Year's Day

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Speaker 2: up there and Olympic Valley we call it now. Squaw

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Speaker 2: Valley used to be called but now it's Olympic Valley.

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Speaker 2: Did a hike and just jump right in the river,

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Speaker 2: icicles the whole thing. That was my New Year's Day.

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Speaker 1: That's beautiful.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't. I did a lot of breathing, heavy breathing

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Speaker 2: in the water.

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Speaker 1: Because it was like but in cold water on New

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Speaker 1: Year's Day. Goup, I gotta say, is not the most

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Speaker 1: original thing. And there's like an entire polar player plunge

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Speaker 1: that happened goes back.

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Speaker 2: On almost a few thousand years prior to that too.

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Speaker 2: I think Seneca did it on it.

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Speaker 1: Do you you cold plunges other than that.

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Speaker 2: I do, I sadly have. How often you do them?

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Speaker 1: I was doing them three times a week when I

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Speaker 1: was really good I just got a cold plunge. What

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Speaker 1: what temperature? Interesting you should ask, because they've been reading

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Speaker 1: more signs that women actually needed at a slightly higher temperature.

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Speaker 2: Once I was doing it at the higher temperture, you

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Speaker 2: were forced to raise it when you couldn't handle it.

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Speaker 1: But we agreed we weren't going to be misogynists on

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Speaker 1: this podcast. But you the panic response that sets in

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Speaker 1: for women is at a higher is it? A? Is it?

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Speaker 1: We have a higher less a lesser degree of tolerance

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Speaker 1: for the pain, and part because the pain, I should say,

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Speaker 1: of cold, not pain in general. We are warriors, that's right.

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Speaker 1: Our body kicks into a much more protective mode quicker

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Speaker 1: because we're responsible for the propagation of human might.

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Speaker 2: Still haven't told us anyway?

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Speaker 1: Fifty three fifty.

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Speaker 2: Three not even that's that? Are Kidd's like a summer.

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Speaker 1: That's cold and for for twelve minutes?

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Speaker 2: Well, that's that's no one suggests twelve minutes.

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Speaker 1: That's actually I suggest twelve Now, that's not that's I

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Speaker 1: was doing forty eight forties. That's not a bad Do.

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Speaker 2: You mean at twelve minutes? It's supposed to be two

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Speaker 2: to three minutes tops?

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Speaker 1: Oh well, then that's why you're jumping in and jumping out,

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Speaker 1: jumping and jumping out two minutes you get nothing done.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think, I'm I think it's a forty one

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Speaker 2: to two somewhere.

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Speaker 1: This is going to be thirties.

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Speaker 2: I tried the thirties. I admit could do it like.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be the source of your great humiliation

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Speaker 1: on the internet, the fact that you only plunge for

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Speaker 1: two to three minutes.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, three minutes it's actually three full three Yeah,

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Speaker 2: honestly at what at forty one to two degrees?

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Speaker 1: Oh and now that and the number seems to be is.

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Speaker 2: It because it's actually it's a year and a half old.

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Speaker 2: It's an older unit.

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Speaker 1: An older unit.

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Speaker 2: But I will say there was something more. It was

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Speaker 2: much more wonderful to be in nature. Yeah, and to

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Speaker 2: be there, I mean a little waterfall was right, you know,

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Speaker 2: the central beautiful sounds like it was not so beautiful

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Speaker 2: on my toes.

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Speaker 1: I made it though.

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Speaker 2: Here you are one, I am here and yes at

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Speaker 2: the hospital, and I still there's nine left.

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Speaker 1: So I'm fine, what's that's why you have extra?

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Speaker 2: Exactly right now? So let's talk about I mean, speaking

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Speaker 2: of extra, you have so many extra gigs. Now, that's

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Speaker 2: the thing that I'm trying to mind here. You've got substack,

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Speaker 2: You've got I mean, you did what two MSNBC shows, right,

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Speaker 2: Alex Wagner?

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Speaker 1: Now, yes, I did? Now with Alex Wagner, Now with yes.

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Speaker 2: Order that was the that was when did you start that?

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Speaker 1: That was twenty eleven, wow, twenty eleven. And then that

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Speaker 1: was at noon, and then it was at four and

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Speaker 1: then it was not on the air at MSNBC. And

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Speaker 1: then I was at CBS in the Atlantic and Showtime

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Speaker 1: for a while, Circus the circus, uh, and then I

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Speaker 1: was called back to duty at ms NBC in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty two. The years just melt by. And that's what

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Speaker 1: I was hosting the nine pm hour from Tuesday through

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Speaker 1: Friday until I was not hosting the nine pm hour.

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Speaker 2: And you do that for how long?

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Speaker 1: Three years?

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Speaker 2: That was three years? Wow? And how I'm curious, guy,

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Speaker 2: because I do want to get back because I am

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Speaker 2: more interested in your early days in DC. But this

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Speaker 2: idea of four days, I mean, it's almost an impossible gig.

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Speaker 2: Right after Rachel on Monday and then somebody take the

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Speaker 2: baton on a Tuesday to Friday.

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Speaker 1: Initially I thought this is going to be insane. Here's

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Speaker 1: what I will say about that period of my life.

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Speaker 1: Rachel is an extraordinary person to work with in her

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Speaker 1: in terms of her generosity and her like spirit and

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Speaker 1: her tenacity and her brilliance, and really tried to help

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Speaker 1: make that transition as easily as possible. But like Rachel

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Speaker 1: Mattow is Rachel fucking Mattows it and the realities of

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Speaker 1: cable are such that people are very hardcore about the

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Speaker 1: folks they watch. There's a deep intimacy and trust that

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Speaker 1: along with it, and you know, it's hard to it's

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Speaker 1: it's hard for anybody to take that baton slash fill

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Speaker 1: those shoes. And I think, especially now, when if people

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Speaker 1: don't see the people they've always seen, that the person

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Speaker 1: that they've invited into their living room for you know,

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Speaker 1: however many years, they're really kind of not interested in

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Speaker 1: the next flavor. I think that's like a challenge generally.

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Speaker 1: And the audience is getting older, you know, and so

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Speaker 1: once you lose those faces and those eyeballs and those hearts,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to replace it with a different generation. And

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Speaker 1: that's kind of the conundrum of linear table, right now

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Speaker 1: what's good?

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Speaker 2: What is the average? I mean, do you recall specifically

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Speaker 2: MS somewhere? Come on not that? Is it?

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Speaker 1: That all?

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Speaker 2: That's interesting? Yeah? And I think it goes then to

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Speaker 2: the you know, then what you're I mean, it goes

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Speaker 2: to precisely then what you're doing and the audience is

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Speaker 2: now you're reaching, which are wildly different. I mean the

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Speaker 2: average age. Whye are your audience?

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Speaker 1: Oh on crookeet media. I don't actually know. I shouldn't

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Speaker 1: answer this question, but it's considerably younger. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: have lots of people in the demographic. That's good. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's great. I will say I have like, I get

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Speaker 1: a little bit nostalgic and sad about the fact that

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Speaker 1: more people don't crave institutional media the way that they

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Speaker 1: used to, because I think there is a value of

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Speaker 1: having like a news outlet with I don't know, news

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Speaker 1: gathering team, people that are breaking the stories and doing

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Speaker 1: reporting and like analysis generally is good, but your resources

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Speaker 1: are way more limited in like a podcasting network than

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Speaker 1: they would have been at a place like MSND.

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Speaker 2: Give me give an example, on Tuesday you prepare for

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Speaker 2: the weekend, or on Monday you had how many staff for.

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Speaker 1: Your show, Oh my god, like twenty five. But then

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Speaker 1: then then actually physically making the show, the floor director

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Speaker 1: and the people in control them, it's like probably close

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Speaker 1: to one hundred. I mean bonkers, which like maybe we

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Speaker 1: could have streamlined that, but there's so many balls that

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Speaker 1: you're juggling, and it's whether it's the graphics department or

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Speaker 1: cutting tape or making sure the facts are actually correct.

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Speaker 1: It's a massive operation. And compare that now now it's

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Speaker 1: just like, you know, it's five, it's five now. I

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Speaker 1: will say they're awesome. They're totally fucking incredible. It's great

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Speaker 1: to be in the vanguard of where information and news

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Speaker 1: is going. But I do think something's lost by sort

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Speaker 1: of just giving up on the infrastructure of like institutional media.

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Speaker 1: I'm not to say that's not to say that legacy

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Speaker 1: media hasn't failed the public in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 1: But there should be rigor, there should be depth, there

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Speaker 1: should be a real sort of machine behind what we're doing,

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Speaker 1: because to report the facts and to do them honestly

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Speaker 1: and accurately requires manpower, woman power, whatever power, and like

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Speaker 1: that's just not quite the same thing as a podcast,

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Speaker 1: though I love just talking and cursing. I mean, so

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Speaker 1: many times on a podcast.

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Speaker 2: You're expected to, oh my god, I love it. What

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Speaker 2: So this whole thing about legacy media, it's interesting, you know,

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Speaker 2: you just because I know it's it's it's you know,

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Speaker 2: it seems a ninety ten issue to say legacy media

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Speaker 2: has failed us and there's sort of an acceptance of that,

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Speaker 2: and what way do you believe legacy?

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm not Tony de Copple. I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: tell you.

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Speaker 2: Here that What would you make of that? That was interesting?

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Speaker 1: Listen, Katie Chuir is a friend of mine, I know

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Speaker 1: Tony from our.

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Speaker 2: Work to Tony. Just for folks that are listening and

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Speaker 2: is now the new had.

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Speaker 1: A CBS and the face of CBS Evening and had a.

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Speaker 2: Very pointed statement when he started.

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Speaker 1: Said we've been listening too much to academics and elites,

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Speaker 1: among other things. I think if the issue is not

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Speaker 1: listening listening too much to academics, the reason you, Reverend

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Speaker 1: Katie that Tony she is married. She's a wonderful person.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and I think Tony is as well. I've got

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Speaker 2: to know him a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm I'm I was disappointed by what he said

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Speaker 1: interesting because when you say the words Hunter Biden's laptop

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Speaker 1: and Hillary Clinton's emails and we've listened too much to

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Speaker 1: academics and elites, Like, there may be a lot of

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Speaker 1: other words around there, but those are dog whistles of

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Speaker 1: a very specific sort in a moment when CBS needs

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Speaker 1: to prove to the American public that it still has integrity.

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Speaker 1: To me, that's a huge, huge red flag that the

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Speaker 1: newly installed head of the Evening News, the man sits

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Speaker 1: in Cronkite's chair, is out there sending dog whistles to

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Speaker 1: a public that, first of all, I don't think they're

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Speaker 1: ever gonna be just from a business standpoint, I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure Maga is going to flock to CBS Evening News.

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Speaker 1: But like, the idea that we've been listening to academics

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Speaker 1: and elites is not what's poisoning our culture. The thing

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Speaker 1: that's poisoning our cultures that people aren't listening to people

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Speaker 1: with scientific information and deep understanding and nuanced understanding of

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Speaker 1: the issues. We're just shooting from the hip. We're just

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Speaker 1: fucking going with our gut, and like this is a

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Speaker 1: time to ruminate and to think more deeply and to

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Speaker 1: be more empathetic and not to just be like, what

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Speaker 1: do you think, Joe Schmou Like, I'm someone who loves

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Speaker 1: doing field reporting. I think it's essential to the work

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Speaker 1: of journalism and democracy. But I say that the people

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Speaker 1: who know issues well should be somehow marginalized or silenced

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Speaker 1: or not listened to. Is not what's wrong with society

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Speaker 1: right now, you know. And like we can put COVID

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Speaker 1: in its own bucket, but generally speaking, my god, on climate,

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Speaker 1: I wish we listened to more academics and elites. You know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I thought it was very problematic. I

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Speaker 1: used to work at CBS News and I remember doing

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Speaker 1: pieces for the Evening News and the rigor that that required,

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Speaker 1: and like it was terrifying to do vices of the

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Speaker 1: Evening News because it was like you better have your

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Speaker 1: fucking teas cross and your eyes dotted. And to say

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Speaker 1: nothing of sixty minutes where weren't even letting the building.

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Speaker 1: They'd be like, keep the rip rav out, Like you

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Speaker 1: guys stay over there on the news side. We are

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Speaker 1: sixty minutes.

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Speaker 2: So I imagine the thing you didn't sit well with

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Speaker 2: you what happened at sixty minutes with that report that

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Speaker 2: was delayed was not delayed in other other markets, I

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Speaker 2: mean the places like Canada and elsewhere.

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Speaker 1: It was shown in the country's the full fledged democracies

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Speaker 1: gets opposed to this one.

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Speaker 2: I mean was that it was at a gut punch,

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Speaker 2: from your perspective, a last minute decision.

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Speaker 1: So, for people who have not followed this story, Barry Weiss,

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Speaker 1: the newly installed editor in chief, a non existent rule

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Speaker 1: like two years ago, Spike, she delayed a story that Sharonolfons,

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Speaker 1: notoriously rigorous reporter over at CBS, had put together about

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Speaker 1: Seacott and the prisons that we are deporting migrants to

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Speaker 1: and the brutality of those conditions. And at the last

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Speaker 1: minute Barry Weiss said, we're not going to run it

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Speaker 1: and the route. She said, it's not ready yet. And

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Speaker 1: as the reporting came out, it became clear that part

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Speaker 1: of the reason the piece wasn't ready is because the

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Speaker 1: White House hadn't weighed in enough. As anyone who has

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Speaker 1: ever tried to get comment from the White House knows,

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Speaker 1: the White House like never responds to anything. And if

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Speaker 1: the White House not responding to something is a reason

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Speaker 1: to kill a story, then there's going to be no

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Speaker 1: more news. And if we are now trying to put

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Speaker 1: the White House in charge of greenlighting national news stories

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Speaker 1: on programs like CBS Evening News, that means the fourth

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Speaker 1: Estate is on life support. So although super super distressing,

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Speaker 1: it still didn't run. Still hasn't run, I think from

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Speaker 1: what I know us in the US. But if you

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Speaker 1: want to go to Canada and watch it, can you

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Speaker 1: mentioned again.

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Speaker 2: Which is just that that alone is sort of it's

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Speaker 2: deeply remarkable that it was still able to go forward

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Speaker 2: fully edited without the additional edits that have been demanded.

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Speaker 1: I guess Canada doesn't have the same requirements.

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Speaker 2: So you say all this, but at the same time

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Speaker 2: you remarked that legacy media you had your own not

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Speaker 2: flippant remark, but you made the statement that the legacy

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Speaker 2: media is, you know, deserves a fate of at least

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Speaker 2: some critique.

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Speaker 1: Oh ye.

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Speaker 2: At the same time, in what way though, I mean

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Speaker 2: in not the way that again is expressed necessarily by

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Speaker 2: how you're feeling Barry Wise and this sort of culture

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Speaker 2: now CBS is reflecting it. But in what way did

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Speaker 2: the legacy media let us down?

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Speaker 1: Well, listen, I think not to sound like some weird

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Speaker 1: like Marxist who got her show canceled. But the structure

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Speaker 1: of the news is a profit making enterprise, and you know,

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Speaker 1: there are very real demands about ratings and advertisers, not

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Speaker 1: less and less advertisers, but you know, cable subscriptions and

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Speaker 1: money is at the essence of the structure of news.

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Speaker 1: And that's problematic because once you're chasing the money, then

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Speaker 1: the stories that you cover are going to be the

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Speaker 1: ones that get the most eyeballs, right, And the stories

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Speaker 1: that get the most eyeballs are not the most important stories.

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Speaker 1: And there's an enormous amount of pressure to cover stories

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Speaker 1: relentlessly that you know the public is going to just

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Speaker 1: be interested in because they're salacious or controversial or whatever.

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Speaker 1: And that's a big fucking problem. It is at the

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Speaker 1: cost of other stories that really matter, and it is

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Speaker 1: at the cost of I think even having voices out

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Speaker 1: there that would shed light on things. You know, I

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Speaker 1: think what we've become is like kind of like these

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Speaker 1: little mini like analysis factories, and we're not really reporting anymore.

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Speaker 1: We're not covering stories just because they matter. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they sent me out on the road for one hundred days.

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Speaker 1: From the first one hundred Trump to trump Land, which

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Speaker 1: was a podcast I did for MSNBC, and it was

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Speaker 1: like this novel idea of sending me out on the road,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, I get that it's expensive to go

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Speaker 1: on the road, right, There's enough money to send people

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Speaker 1: out and have them actually report and to be in

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Speaker 1: the world. Part of the reason Trump hit like a

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Speaker 1: freight train in twenty sixteen is because nobody was fucking

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Speaker 1: out there. And I know there's a lot of human

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Speaker 1: cry about like we overly pay attention to red state

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Speaker 1: America and the plight of like white working class, but like,

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Speaker 1: this is our country, and the plight of certain groups

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Speaker 1: of people dictates in large part the course of political events.

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Speaker 1: And to put blinders onto that and to say for

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Speaker 1: sake entire subgroups of people or be incurious about what

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Speaker 1: makes them tick is at our own peril, you know.

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Speaker 1: And I think there's just, I don't want to say laziness,

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Speaker 1: but we're cutting a lot of corners in institutional media,

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Speaker 1: and I think in part that's why you see this

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Speaker 1: huge gulf between what's happening in the country and what's

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Speaker 1: being covered on the news, and that feels like a

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Speaker 1: fail to the people all over the country.

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Speaker 2: It was interesting you said that less focus on advertising,

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Speaker 2: more on subscriptions.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, cable subscriptions.

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Speaker 2: So was that a did you start seeing that transition?

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Speaker 2: Is that a recent transition in sort of a consciousness?

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Speaker 2: I mean, it seems to me that there's sort of

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Speaker 2: the business model in the past was just the traditional

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Speaker 2: ad package. Did that shift? Is that a decade two

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Speaker 2: decades ago, or is it a year or two or

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Speaker 2: is it the nature of the consolidation of the media generally.

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Speaker 2: When did you start to see that begin to shift?

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm no Jim Rutenberg or Ben Smith, not a

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Speaker 1: media expert, or Brian Stelter, but but essentially, once you

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Speaker 1: have an audience, it's ages out of the advertising demographic.

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Speaker 1: Advertisers are less interested in advertising, right, and so you're

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Speaker 1: making I mean, if you watch the ads on cable news,

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Speaker 1: it's like anti slip bath mats and you know, shower

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Speaker 1: stalls with guardrails. Listen, I have an aging mom. I'm

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Speaker 1: very interested in that that that those consumable, those are.

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Speaker 2: Difficulty getting in my cold plunt. So I'm some humility here.

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Speaker 1: I'm off as the twelve minutes.

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Speaker 2: I still can't take twelve men we're going to get

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Speaker 2: back to that in a minute. And it's not held.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're looking at cold body of water and

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Speaker 1: being like, whoo cold, You dip a toe and then

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Speaker 1: you're out anyway, So once you don't have those advertising dollars,

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Speaker 1: you become ever more reliant on carriage fees and cable subscriptions,

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Speaker 1: and people are cutting the cord, you know, which is

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Speaker 1: why your average oniance age is like somewhere in their

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Speaker 1: seventies potentially. But then you're real reliant on like what

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Speaker 1: gets eyeballs and like what people are interested in, and

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Speaker 1: something like Jeffrey Epstein is a great example of a

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Speaker 1: story that absolutely matters, right, absolutely matters, should and deserves coverage,

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Speaker 1: but at the expense of literally everything else I don't know,

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Speaker 1: And the way in which it's covered is all about

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Speaker 1: Trump and what could be in the files rather than

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Speaker 1: what happened to these fucking women and what they suffered.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it actually informs the structure of the news

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Speaker 1: coverage itself, right, Like people are like, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: don't really want to hear about what happened to them

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Speaker 1: because that's bleak as fuck, But like, is this give

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Speaker 1: me a problem for Trump because I'll listen to that.

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Speaker 1: That's not good. That is very like, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: we we don't nobody wants to give tough love to

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Speaker 1: the audience anymore because people are so dependent on the

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Speaker 1: audience for basic survival.

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Speaker 2: What influence did you have in terms of the stories?

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Speaker 2: Was that a staff you walk in and they said,

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Speaker 2: here are the five top stories? Was there? I mean,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot assertion and I think a lot of

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Speaker 2: proof points. At Fox. It seems to be they'll carry

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Speaker 2: and everybody's sort of driving the same talking point. Uh,

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Speaker 2: and there's more of a top down approach. Is that

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Speaker 2: was that your experience? Is that your experience?

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, every day I was like, are we

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Speaker 1: leading with French laundry? Are we leading with the French laundry?

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Speaker 2: The good news is we can clip this, we'll edit this,

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Speaker 2: watch that.

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Speaker 1: It's not even going to be in the podcast.

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Speaker 2: But nobody, that's a perfect example. I mean, is that

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Speaker 2: something you so you guys pick up and say, not

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Speaker 2: enough people are focused on this. Fox is kicking our cleaning,

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Speaker 2: our clock on this French laundry thing. We got to

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Speaker 2: take out news something.

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Speaker 1: We're not Oh my god, Yes, nobody said, I mean,

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Speaker 1: they own the story.

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Speaker 2: We got to get it, We got to get and

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Speaker 2: get a so.

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Speaker 1: Much negative MSNBC coverage.

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Speaker 2: Nobody is that nobody with the point that way? Is that?

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Speaker 2: I mean, is that a conversation where you're watching or

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Speaker 2: your spouse is what your friends are watching? Say, boy, Alex,

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Speaker 2: really you're missing this. Look at these other networks are

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Speaker 2: running this. Why aren't you guys talking more about this?

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Speaker 2: And do you have the influence.

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Speaker 1: To carry the yes. The first of all, let me

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Speaker 1: just disabuse you of the parallel you're trying to draw

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Speaker 1: between Fox News and ms Now. Okay, there is Fox

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Speaker 1: News pedals lies like if we thought something, and by

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Speaker 1: the way, you do you I.

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Speaker 2: Certainly believe that it's a propaganda network. It's provetom yes,

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Speaker 2: But do you is that universally a belief system? I mean,

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Speaker 2: is it just without any controversy within sort of the

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00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:41,200
Speaker 2: mainstream people understand? They look and it's just roll their eyes.

439
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,080
Speaker 2: There's nothing about it that approximates quote unquote news.

440
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,720
Speaker 1: Oh yes, I mean people, people. I mean there are

441
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,480
Speaker 1: occasionally moments that make their way through the bubble across

442
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,040
Speaker 1: six Avenue where it's like, oh my god, they said

443
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 1: something true, what a novelty. But the structure of MS

444
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,040
Speaker 1: memec at least when I was there running my show,

445
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,400
Speaker 1: you know, Rashida Jones was like the head of the network,

446
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:05,920
Speaker 1: and really they were. I'm trying to think of a

447
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,359
Speaker 1: less derogatory way of saying, like fiefdoms. You know, people

448
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,840
Speaker 1: ran their shows, and I think you see that in

449
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,159
Speaker 1: the expression of each of these shows. Rachel show is

450
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,400
Speaker 1: unlike Chris Haz's show, Chris Hazes shows ONLI like Laurence

451
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,240
Speaker 1: o'donald's show. Joy's show was very different than my show,

452
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 1: and so there were a lot of decisions that we made.

453
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:22,359
Speaker 1: But you know, you are under an enormous amount of

454
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:24,960
Speaker 1: pressure to keep your numbers off and to make sure

455
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,320
Speaker 1: if a story is failing, you don't cover that story again.

456
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:29,439
Speaker 1: And sometimes the stories that fail with an audience are

457
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:33,359
Speaker 1: actually really important stories to fucking tell, so you know,

458
00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:35,640
Speaker 1: but that's woven into it. Other than that, we do

459
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,840
Speaker 1: get a We got a lot of leeway to cover

460
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:41,280
Speaker 1: what we wanted to cover in the way that we

461
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:42,720
Speaker 1: thought was most responsible and.

462
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,159
Speaker 2: What kind of relationship to the prior anchors. I mean,

463
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,359
Speaker 2: because you'll do four hours prior, they'll have covered extensively

464
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,480
Speaker 2: a story you want to cover. You start making adjustments

465
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 2: on that basis because they got this guest, and now

466
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,160
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, we'll seem redundant all of a sudden.

467
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:57,960
Speaker 2: Or is it just you just see the world in

468
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,320
Speaker 2: these sort of bite sizes where it's just my hour,

469
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,359
Speaker 2: no context necessarily to the audience of the prior hour

470
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,199
Speaker 2: or the hour coming after me. Is there a thread

471
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 2: that connects me?

472
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,399
Speaker 1: I wanted to tell you, Governor, I know your term limited,

473
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,480
Speaker 1: so you are maybe looking for something. There are internships

474
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,320
Speaker 1: where we can take you behind the t.

475
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 2: You mean I could get you get answers to my

476
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:18,760
Speaker 2: own questions by observing and watching.

477
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,520
Speaker 1: No, No, we would love to have you, I'm sure.

478
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 2: Are these the state secrets of Evans You don't want

479
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:25,439
Speaker 2: to tell you?

480
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 1: You know, I'm happy to say, like, I think every

481
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 1: show thinks of itself as its own show, right, Like

482
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:31,800
Speaker 1: you don't want to be too duplicative, certainly with guests.

483
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 1: And if you know, there were many times Chris Hayes

484
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,679
Speaker 1: and I have been friends for twenty five years where

485
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 1: the angle he was taking in his A block was

486
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 1: the same angle I was taking, and I'd be like, fuck, okay, good,

487
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:44,639
Speaker 1: we gotta we got to redo it.

488
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:46,359
Speaker 2: That's the human response, that is.

489
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,439
Speaker 1: But also would they would love the cable news industry

490
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 1: would love nothing more than, you know, the former governor

491
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 1: of California to just like be helping out escorting guests

492
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 1: from the green room, considering.

493
00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 2: This is a very this is a humbling year for me,

494
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six. Listen, you should have cleats somewhere around me,

495
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 2: not just miss sort of hanging up my cleats Jesus,

496
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,639
Speaker 2: more symbolic. All right, let me go back a little bit.

497
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,639
Speaker 2: So it's interesting you hang out with your cleats a

498
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 2: little bit in terms of having a day to day,

499
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 2: a nightly, a cable show. But now you have all

500
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,400
Speaker 2: of this freedom. You're able to answer your own questions.

501
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 2: You're able to respond to your.

502
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 1: Own use four letter words.

503
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:25,159
Speaker 2: You can do four letter words. You don't have to

504
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 2: apologize for that. You can answer your own critique about

505
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 2: the limitations the box you're in and the constraints of

506
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,720
Speaker 2: that position. In this new format, you're able to get out.

507
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 2: And that's what you're doing. You talk about the marrow

508
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:43,880
Speaker 2: of Maga and the fringes of the resistance and how

509
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 2: you are able to now navigate that? And so you've

510
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 2: been doing this? How many episodes of the new podcast.

511
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 1: Now it feels like fifty six and we started in

512
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 1: mid October and there's been one on every week, So

513
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: I'm going to say like eight or ten I should know.

514
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,400
Speaker 2: So once a week you dive deep and you meet

515
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 2: with real human beings, real worries, You get out on

516
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,680
Speaker 2: the noise, you break through. That's are we breaking?

517
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,439
Speaker 1: Has anybody breaking through the news? We try? I mean,

518
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 1: I think it's like how many Look at everybody has

519
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 1: a fucking podcast?

520
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,679
Speaker 2: Right? Everyone else heard literally you speaking a noise? I

521
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 2: mean the fact that I write we're here podcasts politician

522
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 2: with a book coming out of February twenty fourth.

523
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,120
Speaker 1: A podcast or the book coming book?

524
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 2: Yes, your second book. We'll talk about your first book.

525
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,360
Speaker 2: I haven't forgotten. Yes, we are out of print now,

526
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 2: thank you differences. Is it out of print so you

527
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 2: can still get it in paperback? Maybe you absolutely? Well again,

528
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 2: well we're going to talk about that because you do

529
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 2: have an interesting past. We're not going to talk about

530
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 2: your presence in a future better than the future, but

531
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 2: let me talk about the current. So you're doing this.

532
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 2: You're out and about.

533
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're doing the Runaway Country is the name of

534
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 1: the podcast.

535
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 2: Runaway Country with Crooked Media, And you are out meeting

536
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 2: human beings, so people that are the subject of a

537
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:54,200
Speaker 2: lot of the policy in this conversation.

538
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 1: So like, I don't know if you've had these conversations,

539
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,160
Speaker 1: but I have had many of them since January twenty

540
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 1: of this year, with people saying I and this is

541
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: admittedly a position of privilege to not to be able

542
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 1: to not pay attention to what's going on, people feeling like, fuck,

543
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 1: there's just I can't. It's just too much. It's also bad.

544
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 1: And I thought, you know, deeply or as deep as

545
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:18,360
Speaker 1: I'm capable of thinking about like what breaks through anymore. Right,

546
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 1: it's a human story. It's emotion. It's feeling like you

547
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 1: give a shit about what's happening, whether it's because it's

548
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,360
Speaker 1: unfolding on your doorstep, or it's your neighbor that got

549
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 1: seized in a dragnet, or it's your sister who lost

550
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,159
Speaker 1: her health insurance, whatever it is, it has to feel

551
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: resonant personally. And I've always thought that, like, we read

552
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,119
Speaker 1: these horrible headlines. Some of them are good, but generally

553
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,360
Speaker 1: the Trump aaron. Most of them are shit, and you're like, oh,

554
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 1: that seems really bad. But it's also abstracted, and the

555
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 1: only way of making things tangible and real and resonant

556
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 1: for people is to give you some kind of story

557
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: of a person who is at the center of that headline.

558
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: So each week we begin with you know that person

559
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,400
Speaker 1: who is whether it's an immigration court judge who's telling

560
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 1: me about how fucking terrified she is of ICE agents

561
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 1: in her courtroom, or whether it's an Afghan national who

562
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 1: helped the US for twenty five years and came here

563
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 1: on a green card and is about to get kicked

564
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: out because Trump is effectively using a national tragedy to

565
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 1: enact a racist repopulation policy, Or whether it's a Venezuela

566
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: national who's super excited that Madoro is gone and gives

567
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: context to the complicated political trajectory that we're on right

568
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: now as Democrats try and figure out what this moment

569
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: is all about. I just think you got to start

570
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: with a heart. Oh my god, that's so corny. I

571
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: just say that, I just can we cut that out?

572
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,160
Speaker 2: No, you love the heart, We're cutting out French laundry.

573
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 2: Not the heart.

574
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,159
Speaker 1: Use that in your presidential bid anyway. We got to

575
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 1: start with the essence of things, which is just the.

576
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 3: We.

577
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,479
Speaker 1: It's just become like a faceless mass. You're like on

578
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,399
Speaker 1: your TikTok, you're on your Instagram, but you it's like

579
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 1: the fucking stranger on the street, the person that just

580
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: came from a completely different place and has a completely

581
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: different life. Fuck anybody knows about that person. So that's

582
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 1: the that's the sort of thesis of the beginning of

583
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 1: the show. And then the second half is like jolly

584
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: good analysis from all your favorite people except for Governor Gavenusen,

585
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: who refuses to come on the show. But I've served

586
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 1: this great debt coming to Nat.

587
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 2: In the studio.

588
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 1: Hit me yes. But you know, like I think it's additive,

589
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 1: which is not to be too self promoting.

590
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 2: I mean, you're not as proud as the second half

591
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 2: of the podcast.

592
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 1: I think I think it's great. I think the second

593
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: half of the podcast is important, and I think people

594
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,640
Speaker 1: love I will say, you know, one of the things

595
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,400
Speaker 1: of cable is like every block is like six minutes long,

596
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:44,679
Speaker 1: and you're like, shit, I had like nineteen more questions

597
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask and the thing I absolutely love

598
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,200
Speaker 1: about podcasting, independent of being able to curse like till

599
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 1: I'm blue in the face, is the time you can

600
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 1: just stretch out and like get into it, and you

601
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,119
Speaker 1: have time for non sequitters. But you have time for

602
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 1: people to stop and think about their answer to the question,

603
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 1: as opposed to as many politicians do standing on talking points,

604
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 1: really to run out the clock on their first one.

605
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 2: I want to thank you for acknowledging that, and I

606
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 2: want to thank you as well for this opportunity to

607
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 2: engage you today. It's a very safe space. Yes, I

608
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 2: have a number of issues I'd like to bring up

609
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 2: that I think are important to our audience.

610
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,400
Speaker 1: Please tell me about Californians and what they need.

611
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 2: No, so, is this what you were you felt like

612
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 2: you were missing? Look, you did this with trump Land.

613
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 2: You did get out.

614
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: And by the way, I was in front of DC

615
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 1: jail on January twenty in the freezing gold at midnight,

616
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 1: waiting for inmates to come out. January sixth insurrectionists, That's

617
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: what I was doing on it.

618
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 2: By the way, we're speaking at the fifth anniversary of

619
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 2: January sixth, Yes, where sixteen hundred were pardoned. Yes, I

620
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 2: was either were convicted or face charges.

621
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 1: And talking to all of them about how they felt

622
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 1: about Trump, and man, it was eye opening.

623
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 2: About a year later on how they feel about Trump.

624
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 2: They feel hasn't been sufficient, even those that have been pardoned,

625
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 2: that because he hasn't exposed the conspiracy. Well, he hasn't

626
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 2: held those people to account or part of this conspiracy

627
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 2: to just how many.

628
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 1: Layers deep Well, when we live in deeply paranoid times.

629
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 3: So you in the cause of engagement, the cause of heart,

630
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 3: of finding the humanity and bringing these policies, these issues,

631
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 3: all the noise, their rhetoric, and how it actually affects

632
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 3: real human beings because there's collateral damage, It's real.

633
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 2: It's all this is consequential. Do you feel you're you're

634
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 2: you're servicing that truth in a deeper way? Do you

635
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 2: feel like this mission is fulfilling? Why are you smiling?

636
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 1: Because I feel like mission makes me sound like I'm

637
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: like about to purpose one person And listen, some weeks

638
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: are better than others, Right, It's like you can't be

639
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 1: scoring a ten every week and like every story isn't

640
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 1: going to have the same impact as the other. But

641
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,479
Speaker 1: you don't give up on the work, and I feel

642
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 1: it bums me out how lonely it is that there

643
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 1: are not more people trying to do this because I'm

644
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: not in elected office. I'm not interested in elective office.

645
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 1: But like, the only way the project of America succeeds

646
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 1: is if you begin to knit the fabric of the

647
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 1: country back together and like man, until you can even see,

648
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 1: begin to see the perspective of someone else, which is

649
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 1: not me trying to be like, lay your arms down

650
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: and get in bed with a racist. That's not what

651
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: I'm saying. But you the empathy or the understanding or

652
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: at least understanding how people tick. That's like the beginning of.

653
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 2: It's why I started the podcast. The first was Charlie Kirk.

654
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 1: I mean, you know bad, I know and I we

655
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 1: texted about this. Its fucking treacherous. It is fucking treacherous

656
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: to do it. At the same time, like, what the

657
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: FuG else are we supposed to do? Like this is

658
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: this movement has captured the imagination of the American public

659
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: in a way that has awoken our darkest like evolutionary instincts,

660
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: you know, to punish, to demean, to hurt people who

661
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 1: aren't like us, and like I do when I say evolutionary,

662
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 1: I genuinely believe there's like a darkness of the human

663
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: spirit that Trump and Meganism has awoken, and like until

664
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: you tackle that and like figure out a way to

665
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 1: get everybody back in the light, Like I don't know.

666
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think just getting a new camp.

667
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 1: We talk about all of this moment as if it's

668
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: just Trump's creation. It is not. It is symptomatic of

669
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: a poison that is within our society. I'm getting all

670
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 1: biblical sounding.

671
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 2: I love it. No, I mean, look, it's been over

672
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 2: ten years since he came down the escalator of now eleven.

673
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 2: I think it's you Are you surprised it's endured this long?

674
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: I actually, I mean, I don't know. I guess. I

675
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: guess not because it was so I went to Okay,

676
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 1: here's what I'll say. I was part of the show

677
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 1: The Circus, which was a weekly documentary show on the.

678
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 2: Show Time Time. Yeah, you appeared a great show. You

679
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 2: appeared on it. It's a great show.

680
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: It was a great show, all right, Yeah, and you'd

681
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 1: go to these Trump brows. I went to a number

682
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: of the and I think and it was.

683
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 2: I mean, what made that show work is what you

684
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 2: describe and what you're describing about your new podcast is

685
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 2: you guys were out and about it real figure were

686
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 2: out there on this day. By the way, you did

687
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 2: a lot of that on your show. I mean we

688
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 2: were together in the South.

689
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. I tried to.

690
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 2: So you were doing it just for the for the record.

691
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 2: I mean, I think you've got to give yourself a

692
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 2: little more grace because you were pushing that and obviously

693
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 2: Trump Land reflected that, but continue. I mean this notion

694
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 2: of of of Trump and during eleven years and the

695
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 2: experience of the circus.

696
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 1: So I would go to these Trump rallies, and I

697
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: think people largely knew, especially on the left, the vitriol

698
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 1: and the kind of nonsense that was spout at these things.

699
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: But what they didn't understand, and what you wouldn't have

700
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 1: understood unless you were there, was that it also had

701
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: this feeling of like an old time revival. Yes, there

702
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,959
Speaker 1: was so much joy. There was so much community there.

703
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 1: We was so much camaraderie and like cheap joy in

704
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: some ways because it was at the expense of entire

705
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 1: groups of people, and it was like, oh the lands

706
00:32:57,840 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: am I allowed to throw the middle finger.

707
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 2: You can do middle fingers. I think we've used a

708
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 2: few four letter words on French limit now.

709
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: But like there is people are looking for communion, people

710
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: are looking for community, and Trump gave them that and

711
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 1: gives them that, and that's really powerful. People see the

712
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: negative side of it because it was founded on an

713
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: essentially exclusionary impulse. But at the end of the day,

714
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: it was like it's me, it's my it's my time

715
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,719
Speaker 1: with my people, and I'm okay. I'm an okay person,

716
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: They're okay, We're okay. What we think is okay. It

717
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: was validating. It was spiritually, I think enhancing for people

718
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: who've been at MAGA from the beginning. And that is

719
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 1: something I think Democrats didn't understand too, right, Like there

720
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: is joy in the camaraderie of MAGA, and that's I

721
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: think proven insanely durable. And I saw that and I

722
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: felt that way, not my joy. Right, Like they were

723
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 1: like brown lady with a news camera. I was like,

724
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 1: please get me security. But you know, I remember thinking

725
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 1: this is deeper. This runs deeper than just like you know,

726
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: mass deportations now, and so his mismanagement of the COVID

727
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: epidemic was so profound. His mismanagement of so many things

728
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,720
Speaker 1: was profound. And the strength of Biden as a candidate

729
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: in terms of being a unifier and a bridge in

730
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, yeah, was any thing strong enough to overcome that.

731
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 1: But the pull of this movement is like deeply emotional

732
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,279
Speaker 1: and like and not all yes, it's it's sort of

733
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 1: negative from a policy point of view, and I guess

734
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 1: you would say like an ethical point of view. But

735
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 1: the sense of belonging and the genuine warmth gives people

736
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 1: who believe in it, I agree, is highly intoxicating.

737
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 2: Everything he described, I couldn't agree more. And it's interesting.

738
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 2: We've had other guests on and a coupler on the

739
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 2: Daily Show went to, I mean, how many of these

740
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 2: said the same thing, And even he had a very

741
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 2: honest expression. He said, I kind of miss going to

742
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 2: some of these things because I got to know some

743
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 2: of the big Yeah, they.

744
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 1: Love them in a red sequin cowboy hat.

745
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, And I mean these are some of the

746
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 2: legendary interviews, I mean, his interviews. But it just and

747
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 2: people won't even break They could not be convinced there

748
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 2: was no intellectual because they were so connected as.

749
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:14,240
Speaker 1: Something bigger their revivals.

750
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 2: So what's the lesson in that? I mean, what's I mean?

751
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 2: I think it's there's something beautiful in that, this notional

752
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 2: sense of belonging community. It's important. I mean, we all

753
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 2: need to be leading. I mean goes forgive me, I'll

754
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 2: pick up on your frame. We all need to be loved,

755
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 2: we all need to love. And this notion of you know,

756
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 2: being respected and connected as something bigger ourselves is powerful,

757
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 2: always has been. I mean, that's what community is about.

758
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 2: That's what volunteerism about. That's what the Rotary Club's about,

759
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:39,240
Speaker 2: that's what church.

760
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: Is, what church is about.

761
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 2: I mean, that's and so and as those institutions begin

762
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 2: to fray, we get more lonely, more isolated, more disconnected,

763
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 2: and we need that however we can find it. So

764
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,839
Speaker 2: what's the lesson in that from a political lens, from

765
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:56,320
Speaker 2: your perspective, in terms of healing and addressing this breach.

766
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 1: I think one thing Democrats need to do is bring

767
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,959
Speaker 1: joy back. And like maybe that starts with I think

768
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: that some of the memes that you've been posting are

769
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: absolutely you.

770
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 2: Did see my I Trump signature series past, I'm right,

771
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 2: They're available on my patriots.

772
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: Do not fall for the imitations. Those are the words

773
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 1: that were originally made in China.

774
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 2: I'm waiting for the lawsuit by the Trump family. Family.

775
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: You're gonna have a lot of lawsuits coming out.

776
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 2: Don't you. I've engaged in fifty two so far myself

777
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 2: and to counter. But yeah, that one's going to be

778
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 2: an expensive one.

779
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 1: I think so good.

780
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, but no, I saw the sister of humor. I

781
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 2: love what you say. You got you get a humorless

782
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 2: Democratic party. Yes, thank you for saying that.

783
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:42,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I mean this is yes of the case.

784
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 1: What is that fucking terrified of offending someone? That is

785
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: one lesson of Trump is that you got to care

786
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 1: less about it. You cannot be everything to everyone. And

787
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 1: I think it's driven from a place of trying to

788
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 1: be inclusive, which is not inherently a bad thing, right,

789
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: And like all these less as were learning short order

790
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 1: in the twenty twenties, whether it was the death of

791
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 1: George Floyd and Black Lives Matter, Me Too, and then

792
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 1: COVID and it was like, okay, we got to do

793
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 1: all these things differently. The institutions have failed us. We

794
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,839
Speaker 1: need to rethink everything. But with the rebuilding was done

795
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 1: in such a way that you know, and I'm not

796
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 1: one to usually quote Barack Obama, but he said, you know,

797
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 1: we made it for the woke and not the waking,

798
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 1: and the sense of you are either with us or

799
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: you are actively against us is not how you build

800
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 1: a national party. And I think part of the thing

801
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 1: of humor is it's designed to offend, and sometimes you

802
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 1: have to accept that and you're not gonna be very

803
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: fucking funny if you're not offending someone.

804
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 2: We've I think we've offended a few people some of

805
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 2: my social media forgive me, but it's so good. I

806
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 2: love joy. Well, it's important, but joy that's not a

807
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 2: word you hear. It's not a word. It's attached to

808
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 2: our politics. But it is interesting. You'll find that joy.

809
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,800
Speaker 2: You found it when you're there at these rallies.

810
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 1: Totally. But I also think Democrats need to go into

811
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 1: Donald tomp is a joyful warrior. You know, we focus

812
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,359
Speaker 1: on the toxic like cancro shit, he says, But he's

813
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 1: making jokes half the time, Like he's joking about Doug

814
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 1: Mell's making him look fat in the New York Times, right,

815
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 1: Like he actually does still have adult though he is.

816
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 2: You think new scum is funny?

817
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: I mean I think it's lame.

818
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 2: I think it's lame too. He's got it, I thought

819
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty six. He went after me this morning,

820
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 2: Uh some investigator, some latest attack. But yeah, I just

821
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 2: don't think it's uh good enough. No, he's got a stall.

822
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 1: When you run for president, he'll come up with something else.

823
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:29,799
Speaker 2: Do you think that? Yeah?

824
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 1: See what's good as I just what it is that

825
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:32,399
Speaker 1: you're running.

826
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 2: See you know where I was going back?

827
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, but like joyful warrior man who's been a

828
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: joyful The last joyful warrior was Barack Obama, you know,

829
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,280
Speaker 1: like and that translates not just to the candidate.

830
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 2: Ama had it in the beginning of the Campaig.

831
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 1: Very beginning, and I talked about that.

832
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:50,959
Speaker 2: And I literally talked to her about it. I said,

833
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,439
Speaker 2: who is this guy? Said, I remember you back twenty

834
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 2: years ago beforeward, both in politics. I'm loving this new

835
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 2: Komala this joy.

836
00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 1: A smile on her face, and it was like, let's

837
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 1: go get it.

838
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 2: No, it really felt there's something powerful to this.

839
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 1: If you have that joy within you, that translates to

840
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 1: not just the way you talk to the American public

841
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 1: your campaign will feel it and your supporters feel it

842
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,359
Speaker 1: and like it's palpable. It's real, and people see joy,

843
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 1: they see you know, even if the stakes are extraordinarily

844
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 1: high and the work ahead is tough and bruising and

845
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: backbending is that a word, people will go with you.

846
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:28,399
Speaker 1: You know. They see the reward of camaraderie and they

847
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:33,360
Speaker 1: feel the high, the elation of being in it together.

848
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 1: You know. It's how people get their worse right, you're

849
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: in the foxhole with your people and you don't. It's

850
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,399
Speaker 1: not about being Maudlin, even though the times are dark.

851
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 1: It's just about God. I sound like Tony Robbins. It

852
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 1: just I feel like the moment is about going out.

853
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 2: We've established cold plunges and now we have life.

854
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: Coaches do Mel Robbins and one of the Robins.

855
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 2: Mel Robins, pretty good podcast loves to have her on.

856
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:57,240
Speaker 2: She is next the next level.

857
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 1: She is.

858
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry, Joe Rogan, I'll take mo any day of

859
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 2: the week.

860
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 1: But but yeah, I mean, I think that's essential for

861
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 1: any Democrat who's going to hold the like the national

862
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 1: stage in the coming years.

863
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 2: So let me talk about your years. You mentioned a

864
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 2: brown lady the camera there's only a few, only thirty

865
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 2: of them. I love it. You've done a hell of

866
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 2: a lot in thirty years, I really have. I mean

867
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 2: just the Atlantic years were amazing. The CBS years, by

868
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 2: the way, on CBS. How worried are you about Warner Brothers?

869
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 2: How worry about Big Times?

870
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I think, listen all.

871
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:30,880
Speaker 2: How panicked is everyone's news industry?

872
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:33,879
Speaker 1: First of all, like I say this as MS now

873
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 1: has been spun off from from Yeah, it's like all

874
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 1: these companies are at for sale at some point, right,

875
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 1: CN ends up for sale, And what the Ellison's are

876
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 1: doing at Paramount is a case study for what they

877
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 1: could do at other media companies. Right, they're trying to

878
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 1: prove the case by you know, spiking stories at sixty minutes,

879
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 1: by installing an anchor at the evening news who's willing

880
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 1: to at least give, you know, credence to paranoid right

881
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 1: wing conspiracies. That is a sign of deep illness within

882
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 1: the industry. And I don't understand, like some white night

883
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 1: needs to come to the rescue and made me buy

884
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:14,439
Speaker 1: these companies. But do white nights exist? Jeff Bezos owns

885
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 1: a Washington Post, and we see what's happened there. I mean,

886
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 1: it's a dire moment for the industry, and I I'm

887
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:25,399
Speaker 1: very worried. I mean I pause on that because you're

888
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 1: like and cut, thank you for joining us?

889
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I mean it's but does that extend even

890
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:36,359
Speaker 2: if Netflix is the succeeds in their bid.

891
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 1: Well, Netflix is just trying to buy as far as

892
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,359
Speaker 1: I can tell, the library of content, and like all

893
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 1: as I used to hold hook, I did host a

894
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 1: reality TV show on Netflix which probably didn't make it

895
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 1: on in your like opera research facilty.

896
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 2: It's called The Mole. Yeah why did I? I didn't.

897
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 1: It was big. It's actually the probably the largest audience

898
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 1: I've ever had. It was a reality TV show. It

899
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,800
Speaker 1: was a reboot of the Anderson Cooper reality TV show

900
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,279
Speaker 1: The Mole, and I hosted the first season of it.

901
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 1: It was on Netflix, and I have nothing but positive

902
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 1: things to say about Netflix and their shepherding of that

903
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:09,759
Speaker 1: show to great success for the first season. But like

904
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 1: they all these multinational corporations have vested into like in China, right,

905
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 1: Like the content that Apple's going to make is not

906
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 1: going to We're not going to want to upset Chinese sensibilities.

907
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 1: We're in a moment right now where the President of

908
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 1: the United States has made it very clear that he

909
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 1: will try and revoke licenses or like launch lawsuits or

910
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 1: otherwise make life very difficult for any any media organization,

911
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: news or otherwise that pumps out content that's critical of

912
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 1: him and his supporters. So, like, I am concerned no

913
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 1: matter who buys it. We're in a moment of great fear.

914
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:45,959
Speaker 2: I had a former spokesperson for Trump administration, one point

915
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 2: zero Spicer came on and he said he was not

916
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 2: worried about all this, that we're our sort of obsession

917
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,840
Speaker 2: with corporate media, which is I mean, by definition profit

918
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,840
Speaker 2: making media, which you have established the framework and the

919
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 2: orientation around doing what actually sells and importance and partive

920
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 2: of that as a business model. It is at the

921
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 2: end of the day of business that the creation this

922
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 2: ecosystem that you are part of, podcasts, et cetera, and

923
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 2: this sort of disintermediation now is actually the antidote to

924
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 2: maybe some of the negativity and fear that you just expressed.

925
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 1: Yes, and I will say I adore being at Crooked Media.

926
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 1: It is so awesome to be surrounded you know, like

927
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 1: you can be a house cat in the middle of

928
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 1: a civil war. You can be a cat that's out

929
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 1: there looking for birds and mice to kill and survive

930
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 1: on it. And I feel like I'm like, I'm like,

931
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 1: I just made it up. I'm the house cat that

932
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 1: was like maybe forcibly kicked out of the house, but

933
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 1: like nonetheless, like I'm in there in the wild, and

934
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 1: this is what the landscape's like, and you can survive,

935
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 1: and you can have like a leaner, meaner existence and

936
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 1: be alive, and like, I feel so much more alive

937
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 1: right in this new media landscape. At the same time,

938
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 1: it worries me that there are like one thousand podcasts

939
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 1: right there. I do think we need some agreed upon

940
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 1: pillars of truth. And you can have a couple like

941
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:06,800
Speaker 1: mel Robin's much respect. You can have some really big podcasts,

942
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 1: but like, are they gonna be as like what are

943
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: the terms of engagement for these podcasts? What is the

944
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 1: sort of rigor in terms of fact checking and news?

945
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 1: And it's not the same thing. I think that like

946
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 1: the idea that this part of the media landscape is

947
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 1: like old and perhaps outmoded and is being replaced by

948
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 1: a vibrant exciting new culture of information and analysis is

949
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:33,240
Speaker 1: a good thing for human society. But whether it actually

950
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 1: solves the problem of disinformation and misinformation that's plaguing our

951
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 1: society is like a real open question, and I'm kind

952
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 1: of skeptical.

953
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,320
Speaker 2: Interesting. I mean, you can make the argument, sort of

954
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 2: the Wikipedia version of it, that there'll sort of enough

955
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 2: sort of self correction and sort of sort of the

956
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 2: iteration in that space. But look, I mean it's an

957
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 2: interesting counter argument to what Sean Spisher was sort of asserting, Well, we'll.

958
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 1: Find ourselves often. Governor Newsome on the opposite side of.

959
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:05,840
Speaker 2: Sean spis interesting, unbelievable. Melia McCarthy as a breaking news,

960
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 2: breaking news, speaking of breaking news, you were out there

961
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:11,319
Speaker 2: as I was suggesting a moment ago. I keep going

962
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 2: trying to come back to this because I am honestly

963
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 2: fascinated about your background. You said you talked to you

964
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:19,839
Speaker 2: joked again. I'll cread it for the second time. There

965
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:22,320
Speaker 2: was brown girl out with a camera. But your history,

966
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 2: your background. You grew up in Washington, d C. You

967
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 2: wrote a book called Future Face, which was about sort

968
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 2: of this notion of identity. You traveled around the world,

969
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 2: your mom coming from overseas and war torn countries, authoritarian regimes,

970
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 2: a militarization of the streets. Your dad from Iowa, Iowa? Yeah,

971
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 2: I mean that conscious. So talk to me a little bit.

972
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 2: You grew remind us you grew up in Washington.

973
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:46,319
Speaker 1: I grew up in Washington, d C. Proper, which is

974
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 1: like the ultimate conversation was exactly from I have nothing.

975
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:51,359
Speaker 2: Who's from DC?

976
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 1: No one mean me?

977
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 2: And like Lucas were actually physically born in a hospital.

978
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 1: There was zero ones at Sibley Hospital twenty seven.

979
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 2: Was it's safe back then? It's only safe now because

980
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 2: of Trump's cards?

981
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 1: More interesting back then? Okay, it was rougher, for sure,

982
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:08,439
Speaker 1: definitely was. I was a product of the DC public

983
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: school system, which was not what it is now. And

984
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: I'm proudly so it was. My dad was. You know,

985
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 1: he cut his teeth as a field organizer from her

986
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 1: govern in the seventies. That's where he met someone named

987
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton. And you know, he was an organizer at

988
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: his heart. He was the field organizer for Ted Kennedy's

989
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,879
Speaker 1: ill fated nineteen eighty campaign. He was always an insurgent,

990
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 1: but he was a good Iowa boy at heart. You

991
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 1: know it just was he came to Washington because he

992
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:37,240
Speaker 1: wanted to solve the problem of poverty and hunger in America.

993
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 1: You know, it was driven by.

994
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 2: What year would he have done that? Is this the

995
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 2: star Shriver year.

996
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:44,040
Speaker 1: To seventy seventies?

997
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 2: I love it, But this is when we were solving

998
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,240
Speaker 2: the vernacular ignorance, poverty, and disease.

999
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 1: Exactly.

1000
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 2: There was a spirit to our politics. One of the

1001
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 2: reasons of so much Kennedy, a Bobby Kennedy in Sars

1002
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:58,320
Speaker 2: Shriver memorability around you. That's that spirit totally late sixties,

1003
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:00,080
Speaker 2: early seventy so.

1004
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 1: Those the Kennedys, and the sort of the ideological bent

1005
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 1: of the Kennedys was so much his north star, you.

1006
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 2: Know, and it was so your product of interest in

1007
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 2: a political frame.

1008
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 1: That I think so. I mean, my mom was born

1009
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 1: in Burma now known as Mia Mott, which has been

1010
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 1: basically at war with itself for the greater part of

1011
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 1: the twentieth and twenty first centuries, and our family was

1012
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 1: being targeted while they were there, and she came over

1013
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 1: here and got a scholarship when she's nineteen. Yeah, but

1014
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 1: she'd gone to English schools in Burma, and my parents

1015
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:33,799
Speaker 1: had My grandparents had both been fulbright scholars, and so

1016
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:36,760
Speaker 1: they were part of like the you know, the learned

1017
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 1: elite in Burma and thus were targeted by the you know,

1018
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 1: the military as it was basically trying to purge the

1019
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 1: country of any Western influence. And you know, my mom

1020
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 1: is like, I think you'll find no greater patriots than immigrants.

1021
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 2: Love that, totally agree, workers too, just so that patriotic.

1022
00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 1: They just believed so much in this country. They want

1023
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 1: to tribute to it. They think it's the greatest place,

1024
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 1: one of.

1025
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 2: The great things. I did it a lot when I

1026
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 2: was mayor. I haven't done as much since. But swearing

1027
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 2: in folks you go into swearing in ceremony, the diversity

1028
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 2: of those that's just a powerful and spirited thing, the

1029
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 2: families and just the emotion. Totally a sense of patriotism, optimism.

1030
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 1: I love that. And we've lost that understanding of how

1031
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 1: deeply and richly immigrants contribute to this country and make

1032
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:28,319
Speaker 1: it America, make it the place we love.

1033
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 2: So she came as an immigrant nineteen years old.

1034
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:34,359
Speaker 1: To Washington, d C. Because my grandmother got a job

1035
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:36,480
Speaker 1: at the Library of Congress and Library of Congress basically

1036
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 1: pulled them out of Burma and then said, you don't

1037
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:43,760
Speaker 1: need passports. You are a valuable contribut My grandmother knew Bali,

1038
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:46,479
Speaker 1: which is an ancient language that she had studied in

1039
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 1: her Fulbart scholarship, and they needed her expertise at the

1040
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 1: Library of Congress, so they brought my family over, and

1041
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 1: that debt like, I don't think my family will ever forget,

1042
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 1: because otherwise I never would have been born. My mom

1043
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:01,880
Speaker 1: and dad met working at a labor union in the seventies.

1044
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 1: My mom went to college and was like, dabbled in

1045
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 1: sort of like socialism as one did in the early seventies,

1046
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:10,719
Speaker 1: and met my dad and they hated each other and

1047
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 1: then they got married.

1048
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:12,839
Speaker 2: They hated each other.

1049
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:16,280
Speaker 1: My mom was like, he's an asshole, and she was

1050
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:17,800
Speaker 1: I don't know what he said, but my mom definitely

1051
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 1: said he's an asshole. But they were both, you know,

1052
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 1: hot young things. And they got married and they had

1053
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:26,240
Speaker 1: one daughter and that was me and just no siblings,

1054
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 1: No siblings, want and done?

1055
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 2: And you went to public school in DC. And where'd

1056
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:30,800
Speaker 2: you go to college?

1057
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 1: I went to a place called Brown Universityble I know.

1058
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:37,880
Speaker 2: What A so I could give them a and not

1059
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 2: as bad. Maybe just one knee.

1060
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 1: Pad to b I know both. But then there was

1061
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 1: a shooting on the campus. I will my heart actually

1062
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 1: broke for that as like a great reading. Let's remember that.

1063
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:57,319
Speaker 1: But other than that, what an extraordinary capitulation we've seen

1064
00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:59,880
Speaker 1: on the part of these these universities, universities and.

1065
00:49:59,920 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 2: I and we've got to hold the line here.

1066
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 1: At They aren't going to who is thank you?

1067
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 2: Thank you?

1068
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 1: Like in Burma they just closed the universities. Here, we're

1069
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:10,800
Speaker 1: like allowing them to basically put the chains on the bars.

1070
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:14,439
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm going to provide two neat pads. You're much

1071
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:18,400
Speaker 2: more you're much more honest about what Brown did then.

1072
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:22,359
Speaker 2: But I appreciate you. By the way, Brown's a special university.

1073
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 2: There's a unique student body that it says so much

1074
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:30,400
Speaker 2: more about you. It's, by the way, explains kind of everything.

1075
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 2: Oh you're one of those fancy Brown people. By the way,

1076
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 2: sat here, So there was no break.

1077
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:38,239
Speaker 1: Back when the perfect score was one thousand right in

1078
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty two.

1079
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 2: Wasn't that the what my sister said? It's just for math, right, no,

1080
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 2: thank you, But let me ask you about this.

1081
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 1: We're like a badge of all, and well, I do.

1082
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,280
Speaker 1: I mean, it's respects not held you back.

1083
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 2: As No, I don't maybe it has. I mean I

1084
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 2: don't know. I mean, I don't know. I don't know.

1085
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:56,839
Speaker 1: Ask me in twenty eight let me see you.

1086
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 2: Keep going back to my rotary club. Let me ask

1087
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:03,840
Speaker 2: you on the issue of your education at Brown. What

1088
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 2: was your passion back then? What do you want to be?

1089
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 2: Who do you want to become?

1090
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 1: So boring? I always want to be a journalist. I was, like,

1091
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:13,000
Speaker 1: come on, even early on in elementary school, I wrote

1092
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 1: for the Merch Monitor. I was the editor in chief

1093
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 1: of the Real Deal that was my middle school paper.

1094
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 1: I was middle school one of the editors at the

1095
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 1: Wilson Beacon. God, I can't even remember. I obviously didn't

1096
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 1: do that much editing in high school. And then I

1097
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 1: was one of the editors for the Weekly College Hill

1098
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 1: Independent newspaper, which was the sort of cooler counterpoint to

1099
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 1: the Brown Daily Herald, which was the daily. But I

1100
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:37,759
Speaker 1: always was always I loved writing, you know, and I

1101
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 1: loved talking to people, loved getting out there, I loved

1102
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 1: you know, I just always loved media. My dad, to

1103
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 1: my dad's great chagrin, he'd say kid, Why cover the

1104
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 1: news when you can be in the news.

1105
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:49,720
Speaker 2: Oh interesting?

1106
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:52,760
Speaker 1: And I was like, I roll yourself.

1107
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:55,960
Speaker 2: By the way, it sounds like you took your dad's advice.

1108
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 2: I mean, who look at you now?

1109
00:51:58,280 --> 00:51:58,839
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1110
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 2: Right, I mean, come on, people are just delivering the news.

1111
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:03,279
Speaker 2: They're the celebrities there, they're the that's a.

1112
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,720
Speaker 1: Very uncomfortable position, as you can see. Yeah, it's weird

1113
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 1: to be It's like not actually, I've like violated so

1114
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 1: much of what we thought it meant to be a

1115
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 1: journalist by talking so candidly about my own You guys

1116
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:16,680
Speaker 1: are hardly anonymous.

1117
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:19,239
Speaker 2: I mean, you guys are brands, your household, names, your

1118
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:23,399
Speaker 2: celebrity You have products that you sell there. Well, you're

1119
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 2: doing podcasts and this and this, everybody's books and the

1120
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 2: whole thing.

1121
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 1: If you got to survive, you're a house cat out

1122
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 1: there in the fucking civil war just looking for I've

1123
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:32,880
Speaker 1: literally made.

1124
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 2: That upright now, you're using it again.

1125
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:37,720
Speaker 1: Start with the heart, house cat. You can have it all. Yeah,

1126
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 1: you have to do it all, because that's the only

1127
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 1: way people are going to listen to you anymore. Now

1128
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 1: that everything's been so disaggregated, everything's an atomized, nebulized. Unless

1129
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:48,279
Speaker 1: you are a big adam out there, you're I mean,

1130
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 1: you're throwing pennies down the well.

1131
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 2: You should have. I mean you ultimately did take your

1132
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:54,440
Speaker 2: dad's advice, which is nice.

1133
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:57,360
Speaker 1: He passed away in twenty seventeen. He never saw he

1134
00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 1: never saw the madness that has become.

1135
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:01,919
Speaker 2: But I think did he ever say he was proud

1136
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 2: of you?

1137
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:03,799
Speaker 1: Oh my god, all the time you had it?

1138
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:04,919
Speaker 2: He was that kind of dad.

1139
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. When he died, they felt They're like, oh, there

1140
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:09,880
Speaker 1: are a lot of your old MSNBC posters.

1141
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 2: Oh that's sweet, that's sweet.

1142
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 1: Rybe But you know he loved me. I'm so proud

1143
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 1: of me. Yeah, but you kind of wanted him. Sometimes

1144
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:19,080
Speaker 1: I'd be like, what do you think of that? Dad,

1145
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:21,840
Speaker 1: and be like, you're great, Pancho. He always call me Pancho.

1146
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:23,920
Speaker 1: You'd be like, you're great, kid, you did a great job.

1147
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 1: He really had a raspy voice, whereas my mom would

1148
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 1: be like that could have been better. So it was

1149
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 1: a nice balance.

1150
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:29,920
Speaker 2: And is your mom still.

1151
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:31,440
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, my mom's very much alive and.

1152
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:33,400
Speaker 2: Kicking, and she give you a lot of advice.

1153
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,720
Speaker 1: Oh, advice always the number one advice number one advice,

1154
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:38,800
Speaker 1: she'll tell me after she sees this, You need to

1155
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:40,879
Speaker 1: wear more lipstick. Why aren't you wearing lipstick? Why don't

1156
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:43,280
Speaker 1: you wear lipstick? You look dead.

1157
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:43,959
Speaker 2: You look dead.

1158
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:47,360
Speaker 1: That's it. That's it lipstick. And then occasionally you speak

1159
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 1: too quickly, Alex, Oh my gosh. Listen, she's not wrong.

1160
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 1: I probably should, but there we are where we are.

1161
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:56,240
Speaker 2: Tell you to be at the same time, be yourself,

1162
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:56,840
Speaker 2: be authentic.

1163
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 1: She does so.

1164
00:53:57,560 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 2: She gives you this contradictory advice right exact.

1165
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 1: She likes the authentic part, but she just wants it done.

1166
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 1: In a Revlon red she just wants it done.

1167
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 2: I may ask how old she is now eighty one

1168
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 2: beautiful years all that. That's amazing. And she's still in DC.

1169
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 1: No, she's on Long Island. She is we are. She

1170
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:18,839
Speaker 1: is right by my side. I see her all the time.

1171
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 2: Wow.

1172
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 1: It's good. She's happy, you know, but I think it's

1173
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:25,120
Speaker 1: hard for anybody. You know, we're talking about being an immigrant.

1174
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:28,000
Speaker 1: You know, she came here and she was so and

1175
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:30,439
Speaker 1: remains like. She puts up her flag every Fourth of July.

1176
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:32,080
Speaker 1: She's like, they're not going to take the flag. She

1177
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:36,320
Speaker 1: printed out bumpersticker flags that said democrats believe in America.

1178
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:39,840
Speaker 1: She was like, we are patriots, we care about this country.

1179
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 1: Don't let them steal that from it.

1180
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:41,600
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1181
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 1: She has this institutional memory of meeting John F. Kennedy

1182
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 1: when she came over with the Burmese embassy in fourth grade,

1183
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:50,480
Speaker 1: you know, And she has this deep and abiding belief

1184
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:52,879
Speaker 1: in the fundamental goodness of this country. And she reads

1185
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 1: the newspaper and watches the news religiously and is bereft.

1186
00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 1: It's like, how could this man be doing these things

1187
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 1: to our country? And I don't even want to talk

1188
00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:02,879
Speaker 1: to her about the fact that it's not just him,

1189
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:05,879
Speaker 1: it's a country doing it to itself. And I think

1190
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 1: it's been it's hard to be eighty one right now.

1191
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:11,759
Speaker 1: Right You've lived through some really remarkable decades and progress,

1192
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 1: civil rights, women's rights, and so much of it is

1193
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 1: being just ripped apart, and you kind of find yourself

1194
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:20,160
Speaker 1: at a loss, like was it all just a fucking dream?

1195
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 1: What is this? What is this place?

1196
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:26,640
Speaker 2: What do you? You talk a lot about what we're missing,

1197
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:28,440
Speaker 2: and that's been a big part of the podcast, and

1198
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:30,279
Speaker 2: you know, what are the stories we're missing? With all

1199
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:32,839
Speaker 2: the noise, the sort of maga noise, et cetera. And

1200
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 2: so we're in a new year. We just turned the

1201
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:38,759
Speaker 2: page first week of January. What I mean right now,

1202
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, all the noise Venezuela January sixth again,

1203
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:47,880
Speaker 2: fifth anniversary today Epstein And that's just winding up. Congress

1204
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:51,720
Speaker 2: is back in session as we tape this podcast. Today,

1205
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:55,439
Speaker 2: they're at the Kennedy Center Republicans meeting talking about how

1206
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:58,400
Speaker 2: they can reconcile the fact that they were complicit with

1207
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:01,880
Speaker 2: one hundred and fourteen percent average increase for twenty almost

1208
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 2: twenty two million Americans and their healthcare bills, and whether

1209
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:06,040
Speaker 2: or not they can get out of dodge and figure

1210
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:07,920
Speaker 2: out a way to actually see if they can extend

1211
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:12,319
Speaker 2: these Obamacare subsidies so that they can somehow salvage their

1212
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 2: prospects maybe hold on to power in twenty twenty six.

1213
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:20,920
Speaker 2: What do you make of the moment we're in. What

1214
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:23,439
Speaker 2: are the stories you think will define twenty twenty six

1215
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:26,560
Speaker 2: and what are the stories that we should be talking

1216
00:56:26,719 --> 00:56:27,400
Speaker 2: more about.

1217
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:30,160
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I think the healthcare piece is huge, right,

1218
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:33,879
Speaker 1: I mean, I think at our own I think it's

1219
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 1: misguided to separate affordability from healthcare. It's all money. Money's fungible.

1220
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:38,880
Speaker 1: You can either afford your medicine, you can't. You can

1221
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 1: afford the bacon, or you can't. It's all coming from

1222
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 1: the same pocket.

1223
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:41,560
Speaker 2: Bunk right.

1224
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:45,759
Speaker 1: I interviewed someone on my podcast who has a debilitating

1225
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 1: medical condition. Her premiums were one hundred and ten dollars

1226
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:50,640
Speaker 1: a month. They're going to go up. They've gone up

1227
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 1: to eight hundred and eighty. Ooh, come on, that's untenable. No.

1228
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 1: People are like, oh, it's only twenty two million people.

1229
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:58,600
Speaker 1: I'm like, twenty two fucking million People's a lot of people.

1230
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:01,560
Speaker 2: Twenty two million million families.

1231
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:05,359
Speaker 1: Families, yea extend with children with children, old people, exactly right.

1232
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 1: And what it is, and I think the connection that

1233
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:11,400
Speaker 1: democrats in particular need to make is it is a

1234
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:14,279
Speaker 1: statement of fucking It is an moral statement what they

1235
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:17,960
Speaker 1: are doing to It's not about just can you afford it?

1236
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:20,480
Speaker 1: It's who can afford what and who deserves to be

1237
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 1: able to afford to live in this country and to

1238
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 1: afford a life in this country. The idea that Trump

1239
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:31,080
Speaker 1: is doing this is literally stealing money from the needed

1240
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 1: money from the pockets of the poor, so that you

1241
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:35,760
Speaker 1: can line. The pockets of the rich is the defining

1242
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 1: sort of thesis of governing. If he has any sort

1243
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 1: of rais on detra If there is any guiding principle

1244
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:45,600
Speaker 1: to Trump, it is to make people like him wealthier.

1245
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 1: That's why we're in Venezuela. That's why the health care

1246
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 1: subsidies are going. They're trying to save money on one

1247
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:55,480
Speaker 1: end to redistribute it to the richest at the top end.

1248
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 1: I mean, that is the essence of all of it,

1249
00:57:57,520 --> 00:58:00,680
Speaker 1: and everything needs to be seen through through that lens.

1250
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,880
Speaker 1: Nobody fucking needs oil. It's sixty dollars a barrel, like

1251
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 1: there's a surplus. We don't need more oil. It's just

1252
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:15,000
Speaker 1: oil companies getting more access to underground reserves. You know.

1253
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 1: I think what needs to happen is for us as

1254
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:22,160
Speaker 1: a country to better understand the machinations of this president

1255
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 1: is to really come up with an operating thesis that

1256
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 1: covers all of it. And the greed and the cruelty

1257
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 1: is really the point. And Adam Sarwarre said at best

1258
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:34,000
Speaker 1: in the Atlantic, but that is what touches on every

1259
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 1: single story, I mean, even the immigration stuff. It is

1260
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 1: about repopulating the country. With white people. Yes, it is

1261
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 1: about racism. It's about being mean to people who aren't

1262
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 1: like you. It's just about being cruel it's about comeuppance,

1263
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:50,640
Speaker 1: and it's about cruelty, and it's about a harshness that

1264
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 1: speaks to the like I said, the darkest fucking demons

1265
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 1: of human evolution. And I think all of this trump

1266
00:58:57,240 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 1: Ism needs to be seen in the sort of through

1267
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 1: the lens of brutality and cruelty, because that's at its essence,

1268
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:06,240
Speaker 1: you know. And we need to bring people back from

1269
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 1: the sort of lull of economic affordability, and we need

1270
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:12,680
Speaker 1: them to understand that it's at its root, at its core,

1271
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:17,480
Speaker 1: these policies are about punishment and greed. So the stories

1272
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:21,760
Speaker 1: I'm going to be following are certainly healthcare. Immigration I

1273
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:24,680
Speaker 1: think continues to be an extraordinary story. I mean, it

1274
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 1: is going to change the face of this country.

1275
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:29,120
Speaker 2: Right Like I ran in the face of California, we

1276
00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:32,280
Speaker 2: had legal immigrants. We estimate about one hundred and fifty

1277
00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:35,480
Speaker 2: thousand less than the prior year of legal immigrants. You

1278
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:37,720
Speaker 2: want to talk about the secret sauce in California from

1279
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:41,120
Speaker 2: Silicon Valley, not just the Central Valley is getting first

1280
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:43,720
Speaker 2: round draft choices from around the rest of the world.

1281
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:46,360
Speaker 2: That's what separates our game from the game played elsewhere.

1282
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:49,120
Speaker 2: That's what's built the fourth largest economy in the world.

1283
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 2: That vibrancy, that energy and daring that you talk about

1284
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 2: from newcomers that are coming here for riches and new beginnings.

1285
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 2: Couldn't agree with you more.

1286
00:59:57,400 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 1: Forgive me, no, I love it when you talk about Silica.

1287
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:05,440
Speaker 1: We're talking about like America is immigrants. Yes, it's just

1288
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:08,560
Speaker 1: we are immigrants, and to be purging the country of

1289
01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:12,280
Speaker 1: all the brown ones is not going to leave us

1290
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 1: with much of a country. And I think, you know,

1291
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:17,400
Speaker 1: telling the stories of immigrants is really important because people

1292
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:19,720
Speaker 1: have been able to look away, and so that's something

1293
01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:21,720
Speaker 1: we'll continue to do on the podcast. I think also

1294
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:24,880
Speaker 1: what's happening to the you know, to poor women in

1295
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:27,160
Speaker 1: this country just in terms of both health care and

1296
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:31,040
Speaker 1: access to you know, they're you know, that make decisions

1297
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:33,240
Speaker 1: about their own bodies. I mean what you see happening

1298
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:35,800
Speaker 1: in the Deep South. We sort of stopped talking about

1299
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 1: abortion because it didn't win US twenty twenty for election.

1300
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:41,320
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that that crisis has gone away, and

1301
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:46,160
Speaker 1: in fact, maybe is even more piercing, and like maybe Gov,

1302
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 1: maybe the thing that threatens threatens us all, which you

1303
01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:52,280
Speaker 1: have like extraordinary experience with, especially in a month like

1304
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:53,920
Speaker 1: this as you think about where we were last year

1305
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 1: as climate, you know, like we've got to figure out

1306
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 1: a way to talk about the fact that we stupid

1307
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:03,560
Speaker 1: to ask, moronic human beings are still chasing reservoirs of dead,

1308
01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:06,840
Speaker 1: decaying shrimp all over the world that created petroleum dessert

1309
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:10,000
Speaker 1: reserves back in the Jurassic period. That's our fucking strategy

1310
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:11,680
Speaker 1: for energy. That's not a strategy.

1311
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 2: Thank you, China gets it. Bring our clock. Seventy percent

1312
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 2: of the evs of manufacturing, supply chains, building relationships, locking

1313
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:22,000
Speaker 2: in and loading in.

1314
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:25,520
Speaker 1: What are we doing chasing dead shrimp, dead shrimp, dead

1315
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:27,560
Speaker 1: mesozoic shrimp.

1316
01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 2: Let me ask you just on that because it's such

1317
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:32,440
Speaker 2: a and there were a few topics, and you implied

1318
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:34,280
Speaker 2: it as it relates to the issue of reproductive freedom

1319
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:37,040
Speaker 2: and it relates to women and girls, and the fact

1320
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:39,200
Speaker 2: that you know, it's not as popular to talk about

1321
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 2: and certainly if you look at any poll, people say

1322
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:45,040
Speaker 2: it's a loser and Kamala, you know, Democrats are insufficiently

1323
01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:48,000
Speaker 2: focused on the things that people really that matter to them,

1324
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:50,960
Speaker 2: And we talk too much about culture awoke and climb

1325
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:54,160
Speaker 2: in and reproductive freedom and the like. How do you

1326
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:57,160
Speaker 2: talk about these things? Are? To your point? I mean,

1327
01:01:57,320 --> 01:01:59,919
Speaker 2: what more evidence do we need? The hats are getting hotter,

1328
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:01,640
Speaker 2: the drivers are getting dry, or the wets are getting wet,

1329
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:06,080
Speaker 2: or these atmospheric rivers, floods, droughts, wildfires, you've got. Climate

1330
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:11,000
Speaker 2: risk is financial risk. Climate risk is impacting our ability

1331
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 2: to get insurance, which is a home and affordability issue.

1332
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 2: It's a construct. I mean, this is serious, like code.

1333
01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:21,560
Speaker 2: It's blinking red everywhere. But Democrats aren't supposed to talk

1334
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:25,520
Speaker 2: about it. We're just supposed to talk about kitchen table issues,

1335
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:28,600
Speaker 2: about groceries. We're supposed to talk about utility bills, which

1336
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:31,760
Speaker 2: is important. Boy, wait, utility bills in climate never thought

1337
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:35,240
Speaker 2: about that connect forgive me. I just you get the point.

1338
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:37,680
Speaker 2: How the hell how do we break that all the

1339
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:41,640
Speaker 2: punitry class? Newsome stopped talking. It's his are He goes

1340
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:43,800
Speaker 2: again off on these wild eye things.

1341
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:46,480
Speaker 1: You know what, people don't like to believe that they're fallible,

1342
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:50,200
Speaker 1: right as Americans don't like to think that they they

1343
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:51,880
Speaker 1: we want to believe is a country. It's part of

1344
01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:54,600
Speaker 1: the actually awesomeness America. It's like we're previous, fuck that,

1345
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:55,520
Speaker 1: go west.

1346
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:59,200
Speaker 2: Right, go west, young Man, go west, Horace Greeley, this

1347
01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:01,400
Speaker 2: notion of theioneer, this I love.

1348
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:04,920
Speaker 1: It, rugged individual rugged? Is it odds with the DNA

1349
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:07,760
Speaker 1: of this country to say there is you know, existential

1350
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:12,480
Speaker 1: threat that you individually cannot do anything about, but collectively can.

1351
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:17,720
Speaker 1: It's reweaving the sense of a common good. Right. That's

1352
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:20,240
Speaker 1: fucking hard to do when the country is so divided.

1353
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:22,920
Speaker 2: But Trump has not. It isn't that what is all

1354
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:26,680
Speaker 2: kind of a sense of community, that sort of organized principles.

1355
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 1: At the cost. You know, Democrats seem to be very

1356
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 1: Blue states seem to be very careful about not giving

1357
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 1: a shit about climate because red states are the first

1358
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:37,480
Speaker 1: ones impacted. Accepting your incredible state, which is.

1359
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:40,520
Speaker 2: Extraordinary, is it? By the way, No, in this blue state,

1360
01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:45,720
Speaker 2: the most impacted districts are dominantly Trump voting districts overwhelmingly

1361
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:50,000
Speaker 2: talk about Paradise California. Not Pleasure Paradise California. You talk

1362
01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:53,480
Speaker 2: about some of the Grizzlies, Flat Greenville. All of these

1363
01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:55,760
Speaker 2: are in conservative parts of the state, the folks that

1364
01:03:55,800 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 2: he's not helping and consistently punish all across this country,

1365
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:02,920
Speaker 2: including Arkansas. I mean, Sanders had to.

1366
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:05,200
Speaker 1: Beg former boss Arkansas.

1367
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:08,040
Speaker 2: Tornadoes, hurricanes fly South Texas.

1368
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 1: People don't like. People don't like believing that the end

1369
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:13,960
Speaker 1: could be there.

1370
01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:14,360
Speaker 2: Right.

1371
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:17,040
Speaker 1: There has to be a reframing of the issue. I'm

1372
01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:18,800
Speaker 1: not a climate advocate, but I just.

1373
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 2: This alarmist thing you're referring to.

1374
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:22,960
Speaker 1: We talked about it and believe that some kind of

1375
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:27,160
Speaker 1: solutions they had also climate mitigation, Like it's just going

1376
01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:29,200
Speaker 1: to get fucking warmer, and we gotta make we gotta

1377
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:32,760
Speaker 1: make choices and changes and the rich, you know, like

1378
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:35,200
Speaker 1: the idea that Miami is just going to become the

1379
01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:37,760
Speaker 1: coastal province of people who can't afford to have, you know,

1380
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:40,200
Speaker 1: rebuild their homes, or that parts of California are just

1381
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:42,600
Speaker 1: going to become the province of people who can afford

1382
01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:44,400
Speaker 1: to lose their homes every couple of years. Like that's

1383
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:47,000
Speaker 1: not fucking tenable. Everybody's going to have to pay a price,

1384
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:49,440
Speaker 1: a steep one, and like people need to show that

1385
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 1: they're bearing the burden of the cost. I don't know

1386
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:54,760
Speaker 1: the answer to it. I think it's also a fail

1387
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:56,600
Speaker 1: of the news media and not be covering this through

1388
01:04:56,680 --> 01:04:57,439
Speaker 1: a climate lands.

1389
01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:01,520
Speaker 2: It is almost nowhere to be found on these issues.

1390
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:03,720
Speaker 1: It is the greatest period as a journalist.

1391
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:05,280
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, why is it? Honestly, why in the

1392
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:07,240
Speaker 2: cable netw we're talking about the insurance crisis in this

1393
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 2: country in the context of it being climate is unensurable.

1394
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:13,120
Speaker 2: The financial impacts are off the charts. You want a

1395
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:16,720
Speaker 2: next big crisis, it is. It is connect though utility bills.

1396
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:20,080
Speaker 2: It's not just data centers. Folks trust me, and I don't.

1397
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:22,880
Speaker 2: I mean, it's so it's convenient to say that, and

1398
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:25,560
Speaker 2: there's a political lens when we say that, but look

1399
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:28,160
Speaker 2: at what's been happening with the wildfire wrists and the

1400
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:30,920
Speaker 2: impacts that have had direct impact on your utility bills.

1401
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:35,280
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it is the first thing you have

1402
01:05:35,360 --> 01:05:37,720
Speaker 1: to do is reintroduce it into the conversation because it's gone.

1403
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:40,400
Speaker 2: It's gone, and gun safety is gone.

1404
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:44,440
Speaker 1: Gun safety is gone, and the shooting abortions gone, abortions gone.

1405
01:05:44,560 --> 01:05:46,200
Speaker 1: I mean, part of it is my like, this is

1406
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:47,560
Speaker 1: kind of where we begin again at the.

1407
01:05:47,640 --> 01:05:50,520
Speaker 2: Epstein and the things itself, and that's sort of contemporary.

1408
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:53,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, catastrophe is hard. People would rather hear about the

1409
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:56,160
Speaker 1: bad guy going down or salacious like they want to

1410
01:05:56,200 --> 01:05:58,560
Speaker 1: hear about scandal. And again, it's not that Epstein isn't

1411
01:05:58,560 --> 01:06:01,520
Speaker 1: worth covering. It is absolutely How are we covering it

1412
01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:03,240
Speaker 1: in the right way? And do we need to only

1413
01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:03,560
Speaker 1: cover it?

1414
01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:05,360
Speaker 2: Why didn't you guys cover it four years ago, three

1415
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:06,640
Speaker 2: years ago? At this level?

1416
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:12,600
Speaker 1: What Epstein? Yeah, I think I don't know. I don't

1417
01:06:12,600 --> 01:06:14,080
Speaker 1: know the answer to that question. I would have to

1418
01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:16,640
Speaker 1: think back. I mean, I think every day you have

1419
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:19,640
Speaker 1: to keep in mind there. And you know, my heart

1420
01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:21,360
Speaker 1: goes out to people who self to program cable news

1421
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:23,280
Speaker 1: shows every night, Like my friend Chris Hayes is like,

1422
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:26,320
Speaker 1: you know, he's a fucking foxhel Right, there's.

1423
01:06:26,120 --> 01:06:29,600
Speaker 2: So much the next level. But he's incredibly bright, isn't he? Ye?

1424
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:32,680
Speaker 1: But I was on the podcast before him, right, I.

1425
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:36,760
Speaker 2: Haven't had him one yet. Okay, jesus, I'm going to

1426
01:06:36,840 --> 01:06:38,800
Speaker 2: test my own theory here. We're going to compare and

1427
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:42,680
Speaker 2: contrast a Brown graduate. Where'd he go to school?

1428
01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:43,160
Speaker 1: Brown?

1429
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:44,120
Speaker 2: Oh? God?

1430
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:47,960
Speaker 1: He went to Brown with me? Oh geez, I did

1431
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:48,640
Speaker 1: you not know that?

1432
01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:54,840
Speaker 2: I don't have one, so I didn't even know that.

1433
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:58,280
Speaker 2: You guys here, I'm a simple guy. I don't get

1434
01:06:58,280 --> 01:07:01,960
Speaker 2: all this. Yeah no, I mean the academics and elites

1435
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:05,120
Speaker 2: are of course, now I understand this phenomenon.

1436
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:07,760
Speaker 1: Dynastic former mayor.

1437
01:07:07,840 --> 01:07:11,720
Speaker 2: That's I mean, I wasn't born as mayor, but that's

1438
01:07:11,720 --> 01:07:13,680
Speaker 2: gonna that's what the book's about. You have to read

1439
01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:14,000
Speaker 2: my book.

1440
01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:15,840
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I can't wait. I can't wait for

1441
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:17,439
Speaker 1: my signed copy to arrive in the mail.

1442
01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:17,600
Speaker 2: And the.

1443
01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:21,040
Speaker 1: Ninety second Street, why is that.

1444
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:24,240
Speaker 2: Where we're going to do? I just you have to do.

1445
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:26,040
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe I'm going to ask you to do.

1446
01:07:27,080 --> 01:07:27,960
Speaker 1: Who is going to be better?

1447
01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:29,280
Speaker 2: I'm going to ask you for sure.

1448
01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:32,160
Speaker 1: I'm fully in. This is good, this is great. The

1449
01:07:33,240 --> 01:07:35,960
Speaker 1: servicing the dead, my book coming out.

1450
01:07:36,160 --> 01:07:39,480
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I always tell what this is about. Unbelievable.

1451
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:42,000
Speaker 2: We'll have you back on your book, yes, which you

1452
01:07:42,040 --> 01:07:43,600
Speaker 2: apparently you won't even preview.

1453
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:45,680
Speaker 1: I can't, I can't. It's about the it's about the

1454
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:48,440
Speaker 1: it's actually it's a it's historical. It's about it's.

1455
01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:50,560
Speaker 2: Historical because it's an historic project.

1456
01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:54,200
Speaker 1: Because the magnitude is so great, it will be like

1457
01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:57,720
Speaker 1: the Bible maybe a few a few more copies. It

1458
01:07:57,840 --> 01:08:01,040
Speaker 1: is about the radicalization of the Supreme and the sort

1459
01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:03,120
Speaker 1: of plan that was hatched in the nineteen eighties by

1460
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:06,920
Speaker 1: a group of unlikely, really super weird arch conservative right

1461
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:09,760
Speaker 1: wing activists in the shadow of the Reagan administration. And

1462
01:08:09,800 --> 01:08:12,000
Speaker 1: there are lessons in it for all fucking.

1463
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:15,680
Speaker 2: Reagan's old bedroom. Wow, I mean, I meant you should

1464
01:08:15,680 --> 01:08:16,639
Speaker 2: be promoted here.

1465
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:17,559
Speaker 1: It's very small.

1466
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:20,120
Speaker 2: Well, this is small. It's a smart small people. There

1467
01:08:20,160 --> 01:08:22,400
Speaker 2: was well this, but they weren't here long. Remember Nancy

1468
01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:25,839
Speaker 2: Reagan said this was a fire trap, so they left smart.

1469
01:08:26,080 --> 01:08:29,200
Speaker 1: That was to definitely do small for you. The point

1470
01:08:29,280 --> 01:08:32,800
Speaker 1: is the point is I mean, I guess the point is.

1471
01:08:33,160 --> 01:08:34,719
Speaker 1: I don't remember the point other.

1472
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:36,439
Speaker 2: Than no, it's about the Supreme Court.

1473
01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:38,639
Speaker 1: That's good, that's about the Supreme right the Supreme Court.

1474
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:39,560
Speaker 2: Do you think they're going to get rid of the

1475
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:41,080
Speaker 2: Voting Rights Act? Oh?

1476
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:44,240
Speaker 1: John Roberts literally would have been working on that brief

1477
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:46,120
Speaker 1: since he was a Department of Justice staff er in

1478
01:08:46,120 --> 01:08:47,040
Speaker 1: the Reagan administration.

1479
01:08:47,800 --> 01:08:50,000
Speaker 2: This is get ready, put your seatbot on. We're talking

1480
01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:51,040
Speaker 2: about twenty twenty six.

1481
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:53,960
Speaker 1: He's someone just redistricting props.

1482
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:56,920
Speaker 2: Bro God bless. I appreciate it wasn't easy. I mean,

1483
01:08:57,080 --> 01:09:00,320
Speaker 2: you know, to be well supportive of something that now

1484
01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:02,800
Speaker 2: I need to be against in the context of But

1485
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:05,680
Speaker 2: it's it's dark, fight fire with fire. This is what

1486
01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:06,320
Speaker 2: you're just.

1487
01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:08,240
Speaker 1: A house cat getting ready to go out into the

1488
01:09:08,240 --> 01:09:10,240
Speaker 1: wild and find some owls and mice to hunt.

1489
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:12,400
Speaker 2: We can't continue to do what we've done, and we'll

1490
01:09:12,400 --> 01:09:16,000
Speaker 2: get what we've got in Texas song. But let me

1491
01:09:16,200 --> 01:09:17,920
Speaker 2: let me go back a little bit, just you know,

1492
01:09:18,240 --> 01:09:20,599
Speaker 2: and we'll go. You know, Earl Warren was here speaking

1493
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:21,559
Speaker 2: of the Supreme Court.

1494
01:09:21,360 --> 01:09:23,439
Speaker 1: Another I saw that plaque over the toy Bowts that

1495
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:24,480
Speaker 1: Earl Warton.

1496
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:28,519
Speaker 2: Actually we should probably put now. I think it's pretty amazing.

1497
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:30,880
Speaker 2: I mean, of course I reminded he also in turned

1498
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:35,280
Speaker 2: the Japanese I mean, as Rachel's reminded us too. Outstanding

1499
01:09:35,280 --> 01:09:38,759
Speaker 2: podcast series. But let me go back to just the

1500
01:09:38,760 --> 01:09:42,880
Speaker 2: theory case with your podcast, so you it's fundamentally about

1501
01:09:42,920 --> 01:09:46,120
Speaker 2: again breaking through trying to find the essence of the.

1502
01:09:45,960 --> 01:09:48,720
Speaker 1: Why, the why humanity, humanity.

1503
01:09:48,320 --> 01:09:51,080
Speaker 2: The humanity things that that should connect and bind us altogether.

1504
01:09:51,120 --> 01:09:53,800
Speaker 2: And then the fundamentally that's the challenge today in our

1505
01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:57,800
Speaker 2: politics is we're so divided, we're so just I mean, alienated,

1506
01:09:57,920 --> 01:10:03,440
Speaker 2: alienated from you know, and we're so unhappy. As a consequence,

1507
01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:08,840
Speaker 2: we're so lonely, so miserable, lonely and unhappy. It is

1508
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:11,680
Speaker 2: a hell of a thing, isn't it. How much do

1509
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:17,240
Speaker 2: you think media, in this case, social media algorithms. What's

1510
01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:21,320
Speaker 2: happening with AI is shape shifting where we are. And

1511
01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:24,479
Speaker 2: how concerned are you about that? Moving into twenty twenty six,

1512
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:26,880
Speaker 2: twenty seven, twenty eight, huge.

1513
01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:28,639
Speaker 1: Huge, I mean, the social media thing has made us

1514
01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:31,559
Speaker 1: so covetous, right materialist.

1515
01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:33,280
Speaker 2: Ticken away? All right, that's a brown word.

1516
01:10:34,760 --> 01:10:37,120
Speaker 1: Mine sixty. I don't know you know what I meant.

1517
01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:40,400
Speaker 2: I mean, no, I did read the Bible a few times,

1518
01:10:40,479 --> 01:10:43,080
Speaker 2: so thy neighbor, so I get a version of that,

1519
01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:46,880
Speaker 2: thank you. So, by the way, Trump clearly hasn't, but that's.

1520
01:10:46,800 --> 01:10:49,680
Speaker 1: Another conversation, right, he was like, turn to a page. Anyway,

1521
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:51,640
Speaker 1: we've become so.

1522
01:10:51,760 --> 01:10:55,320
Speaker 2: By the way, my Newsome Bible also sold out on

1523
01:10:55,320 --> 01:10:58,040
Speaker 2: the Patriot site, So if people are looking to purchase

1524
01:10:58,080 --> 01:11:02,960
Speaker 2: that on the Patriots unfortunately currently is sold out. The

1525
01:11:03,040 --> 01:11:05,320
Speaker 2: knee pads are back. They were sold out, just like

1526
01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:08,519
Speaker 2: the universities, just like our law firms, just like so

1527
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:10,040
Speaker 2: many corporate leaders had as well.

1528
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:12,080
Speaker 1: This is a very good add role like you, I

1529
01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:16,400
Speaker 1: was just this was this is brought to you.

1530
01:11:16,479 --> 01:11:18,720
Speaker 2: We weren't breaking in and felt like.

1531
01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:23,559
Speaker 1: A very natural, like very seamless. Yes, yes, I do

1532
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:26,160
Speaker 1: like reading. I feel like it's the nineteen forties. I'm like, well,

1533
01:11:26,160 --> 01:11:29,520
Speaker 1: litten the sunny you too could buy anyway.

1534
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:30,400
Speaker 2: So ai social media.

1535
01:11:30,439 --> 01:11:33,440
Speaker 1: Social media has made us, first of all, envious, covetous,

1536
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:35,760
Speaker 1: angry that we don't have as much as our neighbor. Right,

1537
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:38,160
Speaker 1: It's like, I think it goes to this baseline keeping

1538
01:11:38,200 --> 01:11:40,240
Speaker 1: up with the Joneses thing and puts it on steroids. Right,

1539
01:11:40,280 --> 01:11:42,799
Speaker 1: It's like, well, they all their kids have matching pajamas

1540
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:44,559
Speaker 1: at Christmas? Why the fuck don't I? You know, on

1541
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:47,120
Speaker 1: a basic like sort of jealousy level, that is bad.

1542
01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:48,680
Speaker 1: And then when we don't have those things and we

1543
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:51,600
Speaker 1: don't have the life that people you know show or

1544
01:11:51,640 --> 01:11:56,360
Speaker 1: the looks that people like you know filter on social media,

1545
01:11:56,840 --> 01:12:00,479
Speaker 1: we become lonely. We become unhappy when we when we

1546
01:12:00,520 --> 01:12:03,320
Speaker 1: are feeling like conversation could be too awkward or we

1547
01:12:03,360 --> 01:12:04,519
Speaker 1: don't want to go out and try out for the

1548
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:06,240
Speaker 1: sports team, or we don't want to fucking go all

1549
01:12:06,240 --> 01:12:08,120
Speaker 1: the way to our neighbor's house. We find our community

1550
01:12:08,160 --> 01:12:10,599
Speaker 1: online with people that are disconnected from us and don't

1551
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:14,080
Speaker 1: actually have our true selves at their heart. You know,

1552
01:12:14,200 --> 01:12:18,040
Speaker 1: I think we've really lost each other. We've really lost

1553
01:12:18,040 --> 01:12:19,960
Speaker 1: each other because of social media. Someone asked me the

1554
01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:21,759
Speaker 1: other day, if you could get rid of the Internet,

1555
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:23,200
Speaker 1: would you, And I said, yeah, fucking.

1556
01:12:22,960 --> 01:12:25,160
Speaker 2: One hundred period.

1557
01:12:24,520 --> 01:12:26,519
Speaker 1: No more. If you had to choose Sophi's choice Internet,

1558
01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:29,160
Speaker 1: no Internet, I'd say no Internet. Things were slower, things

1559
01:12:29,160 --> 01:12:35,120
Speaker 1: are faster, things are more mindless. Everything is negotiable or manipulative.

1560
01:12:35,280 --> 01:12:37,720
Speaker 1: What is it malleable? I mean, I just feel like

1561
01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:41,120
Speaker 1: we live in dangerously isolating times and we haven't And

1562
01:12:41,160 --> 01:12:43,320
Speaker 1: I got to say, man, I've buried my head in

1563
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:45,559
Speaker 1: the sand with regards to AI. It's too much for

1564
01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:48,439
Speaker 1: my pea brain to handle. I was like around for

1565
01:12:48,520 --> 01:12:50,080
Speaker 1: nine to eleven. I was like, Oh, this is the

1566
01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:51,519
Speaker 1: fucked up thing that's going to happen to me in

1567
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:53,760
Speaker 1: my lis is my pearl Harbor turns out wrong, Like

1568
01:12:53,840 --> 01:12:56,280
Speaker 1: it's the whole fucking cascade of shit that's happened in

1569
01:12:56,320 --> 01:12:59,320
Speaker 1: the first quarter of the twenty first century. But AI

1570
01:12:59,439 --> 01:13:02,560
Speaker 1: is going to make it all worse. You know, the

1571
01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:06,920
Speaker 1: search for authenticity and true connection and community gets infinitely

1572
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:09,800
Speaker 1: harder when you can marry an AI chat bot and

1573
01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:12,479
Speaker 1: like live in a fucking cone of silence, buying things

1574
01:13:12,479 --> 01:13:15,719
Speaker 1: online and educating yourself about the world through a screen.

1575
01:13:16,160 --> 01:13:19,360
Speaker 1: This is not good. I mean, you know, they are

1576
01:13:19,360 --> 01:13:21,599
Speaker 1: discrete ways we can combat it, but I think what

1577
01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:24,519
Speaker 1: we need are real thought leaders and real like you know,

1578
01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:28,479
Speaker 1: social shifts to move us away from this. With my kids,

1579
01:13:28,680 --> 01:13:32,800
Speaker 1: I'm terrified at them looking at the school seven and

1580
01:13:33,080 --> 01:13:37,080
Speaker 1: no just props. They don't know.

1581
01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:40,960
Speaker 2: I can't believe I said, no, that's not being edited

1582
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:46,800
Speaker 2: by the way we're sending it to your kids. Actually, yeah, unbelievable.

1583
01:13:47,280 --> 01:13:51,439
Speaker 1: Remember six and eight. They're six and eight. No one

1584
01:13:51,479 --> 01:13:53,519
Speaker 1: in the family is seven. I picked I remember that,

1585
01:13:53,600 --> 01:13:56,320
Speaker 1: no one is. There's six and eight and they're boys.

1586
01:13:56,760 --> 01:14:00,479
Speaker 2: Oh and so boys, and that's unique. That's a whole

1587
01:14:01,000 --> 01:14:03,599
Speaker 2: we can then spend We've spent many hours on this

1588
01:14:03,600 --> 01:14:07,120
Speaker 2: podcast on this particularly talking about boys and about yeah

1589
01:14:07,400 --> 01:14:10,280
Speaker 2: and technology. But what I mean should we ban I mean,

1590
01:14:10,320 --> 01:14:11,800
Speaker 2: we banned in school we were of the first big

1591
01:14:11,840 --> 01:14:15,439
Speaker 2: states to ban cell phones in schools. But but again

1592
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:19,400
Speaker 2: these you said the word discreet ways, which suggest and

1593
01:14:19,439 --> 01:14:23,200
Speaker 2: implies by definition hardly consequential. Well, I don't know what

1594
01:14:24,160 --> 01:14:26,400
Speaker 2: about banning under the age of sixteen like Australia do?

1595
01:14:26,600 --> 01:14:30,080
Speaker 1: I mean? I guess I think yes, maybe, Like I

1596
01:14:30,080 --> 01:14:32,280
Speaker 1: don't think that that's going to fundamentally solve the problem

1597
01:14:32,360 --> 01:14:36,240
Speaker 1: because people's entire social habits have changed around phones, and

1598
01:14:36,760 --> 01:14:38,680
Speaker 1: it is going to be very hard to pry that

1599
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:41,840
Speaker 1: from a certain generation. Like what you need to do,

1600
01:14:41,920 --> 01:14:44,320
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's like begins almost in utero.

1601
01:14:44,360 --> 01:14:46,360
Speaker 1: It's like you have to start making decisions real early

1602
01:14:46,439 --> 01:14:48,439
Speaker 1: with these kids. And I think the thing we need

1603
01:14:48,479 --> 01:14:51,240
Speaker 1: to do, both as you know, journalists or politicians or

1604
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:54,440
Speaker 1: children of this country is to get the fuck outside,

1605
01:14:54,920 --> 01:14:58,360
Speaker 1: Like people need to physically move their bodies outside of

1606
01:14:58,439 --> 01:15:00,519
Speaker 1: the door. My kids are now en r in like

1607
01:15:00,640 --> 01:15:03,400
Speaker 1: every single sport. I have no time in the evening

1608
01:15:03,800 --> 01:15:06,599
Speaker 1: because I just pushed them into sports. And we as

1609
01:15:06,680 --> 01:15:09,120
Speaker 1: human beings need to go out for cocktails and have

1610
01:15:09,160 --> 01:15:12,000
Speaker 1: more sex and do things with other human bodies. It

1611
01:15:12,120 --> 01:15:15,360
Speaker 1: sounds so elemental, but it is one of it.

1612
01:15:15,439 --> 01:15:17,840
Speaker 2: Every two boys is not asked a woman out in person.

1613
01:15:17,880 --> 01:15:20,439
Speaker 2: They don't even know how it's so one out of seven.

1614
01:15:20,479 --> 01:15:22,240
Speaker 2: I don't even have a close friend. I mean it's

1615
01:15:22,280 --> 01:15:24,439
Speaker 2: I mean literally a friend, one friend.

1616
01:15:25,280 --> 01:15:28,400
Speaker 1: The human body needs to move outside with other human bodies.

1617
01:15:28,520 --> 01:15:31,760
Speaker 1: I mean literally, it is the most evolutionary basic Homo

1618
01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:35,160
Speaker 1: sapien sapien, homo homo sapien. I remember whichever one it is.

1619
01:15:35,160 --> 01:15:36,720
Speaker 2: If you went to Harvard.

1620
01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:39,760
Speaker 1: I would know, like Lawrence O'Donnell, she's okay with.

1621
01:15:39,640 --> 01:15:43,760
Speaker 2: The whole line up there. Maybe that's the issue, not

1622
01:15:43,800 --> 01:15:44,120
Speaker 2: this one.

1623
01:15:44,200 --> 01:15:44,920
Speaker 1: No, this kid's on.

1624
01:15:45,720 --> 01:15:50,240
Speaker 2: Where did Rachel go? Where does she? Oh? Interesting?

1625
01:15:50,640 --> 01:15:55,920
Speaker 1: I'm just I don't know Hogwarts and it's just a wizard.

1626
01:15:55,960 --> 01:15:56,680
Speaker 1: I don't.

1627
01:15:57,280 --> 01:15:59,479
Speaker 2: That's good. I mean that's I appreciate the break there that.

1628
01:16:00,120 --> 01:16:02,639
Speaker 1: She went to a University of California school or Yale

1629
01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:05,040
Speaker 1: or Yale.

1630
01:16:06,479 --> 01:16:09,280
Speaker 2: We haven't we've established Brown Harvard, we haven't thrown in

1631
01:16:09,320 --> 01:16:09,639
Speaker 2: the Yale.

1632
01:16:09,800 --> 01:16:12,040
Speaker 1: This is such a gross conversation. Please cut it for

1633
01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:15,639
Speaker 1: the podcast. But anyway, like literally, people just I think

1634
01:16:15,640 --> 01:16:20,200
Speaker 1: we maybe sometimes overcomplicated. I literally think it begins with

1635
01:16:20,360 --> 01:16:24,200
Speaker 1: take your flesh and bones and move them outside. The door.

1636
01:16:24,320 --> 01:16:26,320
Speaker 2: There's not a parrot out there that's not just shaking

1637
01:16:26,360 --> 01:16:29,559
Speaker 2: their head of course, going absolutely, And it's a great struggle.

1638
01:16:29,560 --> 01:16:31,760
Speaker 2: And here's the problem because even as adults, because well

1639
01:16:31,840 --> 01:16:34,880
Speaker 2: here's the adults. They're sitting there on their phone saying, hey, honey,

1640
01:16:34,920 --> 01:16:39,559
Speaker 2: take the phone away. You should go outside, honey. Exactly No, honey, honey,

1641
01:16:39,720 --> 01:16:41,679
Speaker 2: I said go go go outside.

1642
01:16:42,600 --> 01:16:43,600
Speaker 1: I mean you got that.

1643
01:16:43,880 --> 01:16:46,000
Speaker 2: And they're trying to model some good behavior.

1644
01:16:46,080 --> 01:16:49,680
Speaker 1: That's the modeling is everything, but human beings. Guys need

1645
01:16:49,680 --> 01:16:52,519
Speaker 1: to go out and fucking have a beer with their friends. Girls.

1646
01:16:52,520 --> 01:16:55,440
Speaker 2: And you sound like Scott Galloway like he's just promoting.

1647
01:16:55,840 --> 01:16:57,920
Speaker 2: I mean he's saying, like, get to the bar, get there.

1648
01:16:58,000 --> 01:17:02,080
Speaker 1: I mean, you aren't even a marketing cost benefit analysis.

1649
01:17:02,120 --> 01:17:04,960
Speaker 2: I'll take this interesting similar similar well me.

1650
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:05,759
Speaker 1: In sky Gallley.

1651
01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:07,600
Speaker 2: So you are you are you worried about sort of

1652
01:17:07,640 --> 01:17:10,320
Speaker 2: this nihilism that sort of creeping in. You got the

1653
01:17:10,320 --> 01:17:13,160
Speaker 2: first generation and the history of this country, first ever

1654
01:17:13,240 --> 01:17:14,960
Speaker 2: thirty year old. It's not doing better than the parents.

1655
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:17,080
Speaker 2: I mean that's code red. And this is why Bernie

1656
01:17:17,120 --> 01:17:19,200
Speaker 2: was I mean, this is interesting. Trump picked up this

1657
01:17:19,240 --> 01:17:21,040
Speaker 2: populis frame from one side of the other side of

1658
01:17:21,080 --> 01:17:24,160
Speaker 2: the coin, you've got the Bernie frame, which is saying

1659
01:17:24,280 --> 01:17:27,080
Speaker 2: this economy is not nourishing. They are not providing family

1660
01:17:27,120 --> 01:17:30,200
Speaker 2: supporting jobs. The imbalance of the rich and poor is

1661
01:17:30,240 --> 01:17:32,800
Speaker 2: a historic levels. Ten percent of people on two thirds ofwealth.

1662
01:17:32,840 --> 01:17:35,519
Speaker 2: Does ten percent are fifty percent of our consumer spending?

1663
01:17:35,760 --> 01:17:37,479
Speaker 2: You look at the markets, it's not the S and

1664
01:17:37,520 --> 01:17:39,360
Speaker 2: P five hundred, it's for the S and P seven,

1665
01:17:39,760 --> 01:17:42,799
Speaker 2: of which really one or two stocks that are fifteen

1666
01:17:42,880 --> 01:17:45,760
Speaker 2: sixteen percent of that total, in Vidia in particular, then

1667
01:17:45,800 --> 01:17:48,599
Speaker 2: maybe Apple half that at probably seven percent of the

1668
01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:51,960
Speaker 2: SMP's improvement sixteen fifteen sixteen percent on video. But the

1669
01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:56,760
Speaker 2: point being this is not sustainable. No, so do you

1670
01:17:57,760 --> 01:18:00,439
Speaker 2: do you subscribe? I mean, do you? Then? I'm you

1671
01:18:00,479 --> 01:18:03,120
Speaker 2: do it? Sort of, it's a the questions not even

1672
01:18:03,120 --> 01:18:04,720
Speaker 2: a question, is more of a statement, or it's more

1673
01:18:04,760 --> 01:18:09,040
Speaker 2: just an affirmation, perhaps of a deeper understanding of why

1674
01:18:09,200 --> 01:18:11,559
Speaker 2: these young kids feel like, what the hell's the point?

1675
01:18:11,640 --> 01:18:13,559
Speaker 1: Well? Yeah, I mean we've were destroying the earth, We're

1676
01:18:13,560 --> 01:18:16,719
Speaker 1: destroying the economy, we're destroying the democracy, very very destructive

1677
01:18:16,800 --> 01:18:18,200
Speaker 1: years of our stewards.

1678
01:18:18,400 --> 01:18:21,800
Speaker 2: Are you do you feel you're more negative? The last

1679
01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:23,840
Speaker 2: few years, and you've been the prior five to six

1680
01:18:23,920 --> 01:18:24,599
Speaker 2: seven years.

1681
01:18:24,680 --> 01:18:27,640
Speaker 1: I'm not you know why. I take this from one

1682
01:18:27,640 --> 01:18:30,120
Speaker 1: of my friends who said, we're so lucky to be

1683
01:18:30,240 --> 01:18:32,839
Speaker 1: alive when the stakes are so high, and to put ourselves.

1684
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:35,200
Speaker 1: I love that in positions where we can actually try

1685
01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:36,559
Speaker 1: and change the math.

1686
01:18:36,840 --> 01:18:40,000
Speaker 2: I feel like that as governor. What a gift instead

1687
01:18:40,000 --> 01:18:42,640
Speaker 2: of screaming and yelling at you, listening to your podcast

1688
01:18:42,760 --> 01:18:45,800
Speaker 2: or watching Lawrence and just wanting to you know, having

1689
01:18:46,240 --> 01:18:48,439
Speaker 2: feeling I can do something about it. What a gift.

1690
01:18:48,520 --> 01:18:51,000
Speaker 2: Everyone could do something about it. No kings rap, we

1691
01:18:51,040 --> 01:18:51,880
Speaker 2: all showed up.

1692
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:54,240
Speaker 1: Yes they are alive.

1693
01:18:54,479 --> 01:18:58,920
Speaker 2: You're not bystanders people. So I like this. We need

1694
01:18:58,960 --> 01:19:01,400
Speaker 2: to stay in this space. But is that because I

1695
01:19:01,439 --> 01:19:05,559
Speaker 2: mean said this and then that you sincerely said I've

1696
01:19:05,600 --> 01:19:07,920
Speaker 2: shifted my mindset or kind of No?

1697
01:19:08,040 --> 01:19:10,080
Speaker 1: Really, I mean I think you can be on like

1698
01:19:10,320 --> 01:19:12,960
Speaker 1: especially in news. You know, you just like a fucking

1699
01:19:13,000 --> 01:19:16,960
Speaker 1: get beaten bruised every day, right, and the game is

1700
01:19:17,000 --> 01:19:19,840
Speaker 1: to put on the fucking band aids and get the

1701
01:19:19,920 --> 01:19:23,040
Speaker 1: hell back out there, like this is what matters. This

1702
01:19:23,120 --> 01:19:25,519
Speaker 1: is our I mean not to sound overly, you know,

1703
01:19:25,640 --> 01:19:28,760
Speaker 1: sort of churchy about it, but this is like our

1704
01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:31,400
Speaker 1: time in the light, Like this is our shot, you know,

1705
01:19:31,640 --> 01:19:34,720
Speaker 1: And you can go through it numb, feeling like a

1706
01:19:34,760 --> 01:19:37,560
Speaker 1: lot less, or you can like open yourself up to

1707
01:19:37,600 --> 01:19:39,360
Speaker 1: the elements and surrender to the times in which you

1708
01:19:39,360 --> 01:19:41,760
Speaker 1: were born and like fight like hell. And there is

1709
01:19:41,800 --> 01:19:45,080
Speaker 1: no question that everything today has consequences. And if you

1710
01:19:45,120 --> 01:19:47,719
Speaker 1: can be part of a consequence that turns us towards

1711
01:19:47,720 --> 01:19:51,720
Speaker 1: good and lightness and fairness and equity, then like in

1712
01:19:51,800 --> 01:19:54,120
Speaker 1: whatever way you know, whether it's just pushing your kid

1713
01:19:54,120 --> 01:19:55,639
Speaker 1: out the door and making that kid have a better

1714
01:19:55,720 --> 01:19:58,439
Speaker 1: day and a better moment in his sunlight, or whether

1715
01:19:58,479 --> 01:20:01,120
Speaker 1: it's actually doing things like policy, changing the course of

1716
01:20:01,640 --> 01:20:04,200
Speaker 1: the country. All of it fucking matters. And it is

1717
01:20:04,320 --> 01:20:07,840
Speaker 1: extraordinary to be in times when the expectations are so

1718
01:20:09,920 --> 01:20:12,960
Speaker 1: urgent and the work is so important. So I don't

1719
01:20:12,960 --> 01:20:15,360
Speaker 1: feel bad. I genuinely think about it sometimes when I'm like,

1720
01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:19,400
Speaker 1: are you fucking kidding? War with Venezuela? Right, But then

1721
01:20:19,439 --> 01:20:22,680
Speaker 1: you think, Okay, what are we going to do to

1722
01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:25,320
Speaker 1: sort of make the story live in the way that

1723
01:20:25,360 --> 01:20:25,759
Speaker 1: it should.

1724
01:20:26,320 --> 01:20:28,800
Speaker 2: I mean, I could go to Columbia, Cuba. We can

1725
01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:33,599
Speaker 2: talk about Greenland, baby, we can talk about Greenland.

1726
01:20:33,080 --> 01:20:36,000
Speaker 1: Baby, Greenland Baby, I think the Kingdom.

1727
01:20:35,640 --> 01:20:38,080
Speaker 2: Of Denmark, one of the founding members of NATO. We

1728
01:20:38,080 --> 01:20:39,680
Speaker 2: could talk about the end of NATO. We could talk

1729
01:20:39,720 --> 01:20:42,760
Speaker 2: about Putin and she and how they're feeling about all

1730
01:20:42,760 --> 01:20:45,400
Speaker 2: these things that their permission slips or or was it

1731
01:20:45,439 --> 01:20:49,719
Speaker 2: a tactical and brilliant move that weakens people like Putin

1732
01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:53,160
Speaker 2: because he's envious. He couldn't take Zelenski out in thirty minutes,

1733
01:20:53,200 --> 01:20:56,920
Speaker 2: he couldn't deal with with his proxies in Iran and Syria.

1734
01:20:56,960 --> 01:21:00,320
Speaker 2: It couldn't have their back. And maybe this destabilization has

1735
01:21:00,320 --> 01:21:01,800
Speaker 2: put all of them on notice. I don't know. But

1736
01:21:01,840 --> 01:21:03,400
Speaker 2: we can get in all that. But I want to

1737
01:21:03,439 --> 01:21:07,040
Speaker 2: stay in the positive because I want to focus. I mean,

1738
01:21:08,040 --> 01:21:11,920
Speaker 2: there's a lot, yeah to unpack all of these things.

1739
01:21:11,960 --> 01:21:15,479
Speaker 2: So we'll bring in Jake Sullivan and uh and some

1740
01:21:15,520 --> 01:21:19,000
Speaker 2: of our other friends. We've had has On, We've had Brenner,

1741
01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:22,200
Speaker 2: We've had a Revetter share. We'll keep going. Yes, I

1742
01:21:22,240 --> 01:21:24,519
Speaker 2: love all this stuff, but I but I also love

1743
01:21:25,280 --> 01:21:27,559
Speaker 2: just the practical And I want to just end because

1744
01:21:27,600 --> 01:21:30,200
Speaker 2: you're being so positive and we all need It's a

1745
01:21:30,240 --> 01:21:33,000
Speaker 2: new year, not enough. It's in the spirit of Tony

1746
01:21:33,080 --> 01:21:35,120
Speaker 2: Robbins New Year.

1747
01:21:35,040 --> 01:21:38,679
Speaker 1: Knew you so smart at the heart, smart.

1748
01:21:38,479 --> 01:21:43,120
Speaker 2: Of the heart. You talked about heart, very touchy feely emotionally.

1749
01:21:43,160 --> 01:21:45,559
Speaker 1: I feel like it's an emotional it's a it's a

1750
01:21:45,400 --> 01:21:48,200
Speaker 1: not cuddling. There's plenty of course words, but it is

1751
01:21:48,240 --> 01:21:50,360
Speaker 1: a new year, and like, don't go into it with

1752
01:21:50,400 --> 01:21:51,479
Speaker 1: your head hanging down, like.

1753
01:21:52,400 --> 01:21:56,080
Speaker 2: Of course, man, come on, no, of course not. And

1754
01:21:56,120 --> 01:21:58,320
Speaker 2: it's a matter of choice. It's whatever. And there's a

1755
01:21:58,760 --> 01:22:01,200
Speaker 2: truism in life. Whatever you focus on, you find more of.

1756
01:22:01,479 --> 01:22:04,760
Speaker 2: Whatever you focus on, you find more of. And so

1757
01:22:04,880 --> 01:22:07,280
Speaker 2: start coloring and what's right in your life, coloring what's

1758
01:22:07,360 --> 01:22:09,679
Speaker 2: right in terms of your relationships, what's right in terms

1759
01:22:09,680 --> 01:22:12,200
Speaker 2: of our politics, And I think you'll find more of it.

1760
01:22:12,240 --> 01:22:14,800
Speaker 2: And it's abundant. I mean, it's so. I think that's

1761
01:22:15,040 --> 01:22:17,440
Speaker 2: one of the ways of not quite literally, not figuratively,

1762
01:22:17,479 --> 01:22:21,400
Speaker 2: manifesting a greater sense of optimism and hope and this

1763
01:22:21,520 --> 01:22:23,639
Speaker 2: notion that you have agency, that you can shape the future.

1764
01:22:23,479 --> 01:22:26,720
Speaker 2: You're not a bystander, we're not passive victims. We have

1765
01:22:26,800 --> 01:22:28,280
Speaker 2: the ability to shape things. And I think we did,

1766
01:22:28,320 --> 01:22:30,400
Speaker 2: and let me end on this, we did in twenty

1767
01:22:30,439 --> 01:22:32,720
Speaker 2: twenty five. I think we ended on twenty twenty five

1768
01:22:32,840 --> 01:22:35,920
Speaker 2: very powerfully. You saw that in terms of the ascendancy

1769
01:22:35,960 --> 01:22:39,599
Speaker 2: of new voices, new leaders You know, you could quibble

1770
01:22:39,600 --> 01:22:44,200
Speaker 2: about your flavor of leadership, but in places like New York, obviously,

1771
01:22:44,280 --> 01:22:47,400
Speaker 2: in New Jersey and Virginia, and then these smaller races

1772
01:22:47,400 --> 01:22:50,040
Speaker 2: in Bucks County and places in Georgia, and you saw this.

1773
01:22:50,360 --> 01:22:52,000
Speaker 2: You've seen it. And by the way, state house is

1774
01:22:52,040 --> 01:22:55,639
Speaker 2: one of the biggest stories, yes, is how we are

1775
01:22:55,840 --> 01:23:00,920
Speaker 2: dominating in state for decades. We've been thank you.

1776
01:23:00,920 --> 01:23:02,960
Speaker 1: Guess when it was like, hey, guys, they have like

1777
01:23:03,000 --> 01:23:06,519
Speaker 1: thirty seven state houses. Republicans have like a vast majority.

1778
01:23:06,560 --> 01:23:09,200
Speaker 2: There was two years ago. I was with you in

1779
01:23:09,240 --> 01:23:12,720
Speaker 2: the South talking precisely about this issue. Until the Democratic

1780
01:23:12,760 --> 01:23:17,000
Speaker 2: Party focuses on that which are state houses and get

1781
01:23:17,040 --> 01:23:18,800
Speaker 2: off this guy guy on the white horse to come

1782
01:23:18,840 --> 01:23:22,040
Speaker 2: save the day. That are obsession with the next Obama

1783
01:23:22,320 --> 01:23:25,599
Speaker 2: as opposed to obsessing about the hard work. Yeah, it's great,

1784
01:23:25,640 --> 01:23:28,519
Speaker 2: but it's also progress. And we're seeing that progress now

1785
01:23:28,520 --> 01:23:31,240
Speaker 2: being promoted across the country because people are waking up.

1786
01:23:31,240 --> 01:23:33,240
Speaker 2: The No King's Rally. People are waking up. So in

1787
01:23:33,240 --> 01:23:36,960
Speaker 2: that spirit of optimism we take back the house. What

1788
01:23:37,040 --> 01:23:39,639
Speaker 2: is it? Nine chance? Eighty percent chance?

1789
01:23:40,600 --> 01:23:43,120
Speaker 1: I'm so bad at prognostication. I think it's gonna listen,

1790
01:23:43,160 --> 01:23:45,280
Speaker 1: it's gonna be tight. It's gonna be hard, you think,

1791
01:23:45,360 --> 01:23:47,640
Speaker 1: So I don't know. I just I well, I don't know.

1792
01:23:48,320 --> 01:23:50,880
Speaker 2: My bubble here, I had a whole I think the

1793
01:23:50,960 --> 01:23:55,680
Speaker 2: crescendo show now now we are sorry, folks, we may

1794
01:23:55,720 --> 01:23:57,160
Speaker 2: have to extend this a little bit.

1795
01:23:57,200 --> 01:23:59,559
Speaker 1: No, I think they will take back the house. I

1796
01:23:59,560 --> 01:24:03,240
Speaker 1: think Trump smithsmanagement of literally everything is going to redound

1797
01:24:03,240 --> 01:24:09,160
Speaker 1: to his disadvantage. Corruption and just the close disinterest in

1798
01:24:09,439 --> 01:24:12,679
Speaker 1: the basic basic reason he was sent back to office,

1799
01:24:12,680 --> 01:24:14,760
Speaker 1: which was to make life more affordable for people. And

1800
01:24:14,760 --> 01:24:16,760
Speaker 1: he's just doing everything in his way power not to

1801
01:24:16,800 --> 01:24:17,080
Speaker 1: do that.

1802
01:24:17,120 --> 01:24:18,000
Speaker 2: It is remarkable.

1803
01:24:18,720 --> 01:24:24,000
Speaker 1: But and he's like fallen asleep and like an adult

1804
01:24:24,840 --> 01:24:29,200
Speaker 1: creepy Joe, sleepy down. So so I I do think,

1805
01:24:29,200 --> 01:24:31,000
Speaker 1: and I think that that is going to change the dynamic.

1806
01:24:31,080 --> 01:24:33,120
Speaker 1: I think it will be a huge thought in the

1807
01:24:33,200 --> 01:24:36,400
Speaker 1: arm for the country to have a party in power

1808
01:24:36,520 --> 01:24:38,759
Speaker 1: that is acting as a bulwark against the worst impulses

1809
01:24:38,800 --> 01:24:41,680
Speaker 1: of this administration. That is going to make you know,

1810
01:24:41,800 --> 01:24:44,960
Speaker 1: Republicans vote on some of the hateful ship that they

1811
01:24:45,000 --> 01:24:47,519
Speaker 1: put out there and just sort of like pretend deadn't

1812
01:24:47,600 --> 01:24:51,080
Speaker 1: didn't exist. And I just think it will be a

1813
01:24:51,120 --> 01:24:53,799
Speaker 1: real moment for Democrats to circle the wagons and decide

1814
01:24:53,800 --> 01:24:56,280
Speaker 1: what they're really fucking all about. And that needs to happen.

1815
01:24:56,360 --> 01:24:57,080
Speaker 1: It's been to you.

1816
01:24:57,200 --> 01:24:59,679
Speaker 2: What is shape shifting not just our opposition and being

1817
01:24:59,680 --> 01:25:02,800
Speaker 2: defined by the opposition, Well, what's our positive alternative vision?

1818
01:25:02,920 --> 01:25:04,439
Speaker 1: What is the vision for the country. So I think

1819
01:25:04,439 --> 01:25:05,720
Speaker 1: it's gonna be a huge year, you know, and I

1820
01:25:05,720 --> 01:25:07,360
Speaker 1: think there's gonna be a lot of twists and turns.

1821
01:25:07,400 --> 01:25:10,960
Speaker 1: But the the democracy, the wound is still intact, you know,

1822
01:25:11,120 --> 01:25:13,160
Speaker 1: and it's like, believe in it, be part of it.

1823
01:25:13,200 --> 01:25:16,120
Speaker 1: Get out there, do the thing, you know, do the thing.

1824
01:25:16,200 --> 01:25:19,400
Speaker 2: Well, you're doing the thing. The Swiss Army knife. In

1825
01:25:19,439 --> 01:25:20,040
Speaker 2: many ways.

1826
01:25:20,439 --> 01:25:22,240
Speaker 1: You didn't like the house cat in the Wild.

1827
01:25:22,400 --> 01:25:24,200
Speaker 2: I loved it. And it's the third time you've used it,

1828
01:25:24,240 --> 01:25:26,880
Speaker 2: which is unbelievable. So it's just trying to make it trademarked.

1829
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:30,599
Speaker 2: Now it's yours. Now is it's officially no one no

1830
01:25:30,640 --> 01:25:31,479
Speaker 2: one will dare.

1831
01:25:31,600 --> 01:25:34,639
Speaker 1: Dare take I actually have a house cat who got

1832
01:25:34,640 --> 01:25:37,160
Speaker 1: out the other day, and I was like, Francisco, Francisco,

1833
01:25:37,280 --> 01:25:39,280
Speaker 1: come back are you.

1834
01:25:39,479 --> 01:25:41,840
Speaker 2: I wouldn't even bring up jd Vance. I could have

1835
01:25:41,920 --> 01:25:43,320
Speaker 2: gone there with the you know.

1836
01:25:43,600 --> 01:25:46,760
Speaker 1: The mogging. Oh what's the Oh my god, you need

1837
01:25:46,800 --> 01:25:49,559
Speaker 1: to know about this. It's a it's a basically a

1838
01:25:49,600 --> 01:25:52,200
Speaker 1: man's beauty. Man's beauty. It's an internet thing, and the

1839
01:25:52,240 --> 01:25:57,040
Speaker 1: Internet thinks that you're way better mauger than he is.

1840
01:25:57,240 --> 01:26:00,000
Speaker 1: That means they don't think you're obese, and they would

1841
01:26:00,040 --> 01:26:00,840
Speaker 1: about you more.

1842
01:26:01,080 --> 01:26:04,240
Speaker 2: Oh good, this is my point ability strategy.

1843
01:26:04,280 --> 01:26:06,680
Speaker 1: Google it and you'll be happy. I'll send you this.

1844
01:26:06,800 --> 01:26:07,920
Speaker 2: You still say google it?

1845
01:26:08,080 --> 01:26:10,000
Speaker 1: Oh? I mean like I still say we did it.

1846
01:26:10,560 --> 01:26:11,720
Speaker 1: I still say thirty years old?

1847
01:26:11,720 --> 01:26:12,599
Speaker 2: Earlier it was it thirty.

1848
01:26:12,920 --> 01:26:14,000
Speaker 1: I mean about to be thirty.

1849
01:26:14,080 --> 01:26:15,800
Speaker 2: Okay, I was about to be thirty. I just checking,

1850
01:26:15,840 --> 01:26:16,840
Speaker 2: But that would be right that.

1851
01:26:17,080 --> 01:26:20,439
Speaker 1: I was born in nineteen ninety five. He's laughing.

1852
01:26:20,840 --> 01:26:23,240
Speaker 2: Were you actually ninety five? Dude?

1853
01:26:23,360 --> 01:26:24,519
Speaker 1: I'm like almost fifty?

1854
01:26:25,200 --> 01:26:29,439
Speaker 2: Are you almost fifty? Yeah? That's unbelievable deep face? All right,

1855
01:26:29,600 --> 01:26:34,200
Speaker 2: let it wait. End Alex Wagner, everybody, thanks for having