WEBVTT - Uncaught Serial Killers, Part 3 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:04.680 From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:09.080 riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 0:00:09.200 --> 0:00:24.759 learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Welcome 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:26.800 back to the show. My name is Matt, my name 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:29.440 is Nolan. They call me Ben. We are joined with 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:35.120 our long suffering, super tolerant super producer Paul Decant. Most importantly, 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:38.159 you are here. You are you that makes this stuff 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:41.720 they don't want you to know. Part three in a 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:48.120 continuing series, the Tranfinity and unfortunately continuing series we should 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:51.840 add as well. Uh you see, folks, this is part 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:57.760 three in our series on unapprehended serial killers. And in 0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:01.960 the past and previous episodes we covered the new Bedford 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:08.800 Highway killer remains unapprehended, the Lisbon Ripper, also unapprehended, Pedro Lopez, 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:13.759 famously known as the Monster of the andes apprehended then 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:17.960 not anymore. Yes, once apprehended then escaped. Uh. In a 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:23.319 few years ago, Interpol released a warrant or a call 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:27.240 to find this guy. And then we also covered the 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:32.440 Connecticut River Valley killer and the possibilities of that killer's 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:36.280 true identity. We also covered the Long Island serial killer, 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:39.360 a k a. The Craigslist Ripper. Yeah, and then we 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:42.679 had Bible John thrown in there from the last one, 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:48.120 the Babysitter, which was an odd name I remember, uh 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:52.880 for for a killer. The Freeway Phantom was one, and 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:57.320 the Maniac of Nova s Birsk. Yeah, I believe that's 0:01:57.320 --> 0:01:59.560 how you say it. That sounds right to me. Okay, cool, 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:04.160 And you can you can check out our previous episodes, 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:08.359 one of which has a guest on the show who 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:11.400 has not themselves a serial killer so far as we know, 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:16.320 and there you can find some deep dives into both 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:20.760 the methods of murder, the times these killers were known 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:24.480 to be active, and the latest research at the time 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:29.240 of the recording regarding whether or not they will be apprehended. 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:32.399 And we did this along with serial killers who almost 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:35.840 got away who very well would have gotten away had 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:40.040 they not returned to an active state, and those would 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:43.840 be people like the Grim Sleeper or Dennis Radar also 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:46.799 known as b t K or the Mind Torture Kill. 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:51.919 And we've also explored the stories of the original night Stalker, 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:55.760 which was that was a tough one and in the 0:02:55.840 --> 0:03:00.840 Highway of Tears, especially which continues man in Canada. Uh, 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:03.200 there's a lot to go back and listen to, So 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:07.000 I would recommend just getting those archives, go way back 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:10.640 and um explore it. But it's a grizzly ride, and 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:14.880 don't do it while you're eating, please, And as we 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:17.800 said at the top, more serial killers remain on the 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:22.640 loose today. We're spoiler alert not going to have any 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:26.920 chance of covering them all in this episode. So as 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:30.720 you are listening, if there is one that you think 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:35.520 your fellow listeners would find particularly fascinating, or most importantly, 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:39.320 if you think there might be some sort of lead 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:43.440 that could ultimately result in the apprehension, conviction, or arrest 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:46.880 of one of these unidentified killers, whether or not they're 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:50.840 on this show. Let us know several of the killers 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:53.920 we're exploring today have little or no chance of facing 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:58.680 up to the consequences of their crimes, those crimes being 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:06.440 serial murder, right, So this is different from garden variety homicide, 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:10.800 not to diminish the tragedies inherent in that. And first 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:14.960 let's let's have a quick recap of what exactly defines 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:19.880 a serial killer. So the base level criteria for a 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:23.520 serial killer are that this individual commits at least three 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:27.800 murders um and at least three separate locations, and that 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:31.080 there is something of a cooling off period in between. 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:34.599 It's almost like a kind of hibernation, almost, yeah. And 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:39.640 that that comes from crime classification manual and m that's 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:41.720 where it outlines all that stuff. But that's not where 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:46.640 the term serial killer originates, right. The term serial killers 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:49.560 we understand it today was coined in the mid nineteen 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:55.160 seventies by former director of the FBI's Violent Criminal Apprehension Program, 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:59.280 a man named Robert Wrestler. He chose Cereal for peak 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:02.479 behind the Curtain. He because the police in England called 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:06.520 these types of murders crimes in a series quote unquote, 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:11.480 and because of the serial films that he grew up watching. 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:14.480 In Part two of the series, in the previous episode 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:17.840 on Uncaught serial Killers, we examine some of the methods 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:21.120 that have been used to classify this type of murderer 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:25.000 based on their motivations. Their processes are the very rough 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:29.039 demographics from killers who were caught or were observed in 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:34.080 enough detail by witnesses or survivors to create a reasonable 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:39.600 uh a reasonable shot at a physical description. And what 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:44.640 we've learned from these various investigations, is that real life 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:49.839 serial killers, as exceedingly rare as they are, don't often 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:54.120 match the image of a killer of this type that 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:57.520 you would see in so many works of fiction. Yeah, 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:00.719 and you know, this is the first uncut Serial Killers 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:03.640 episode we've done since mind Hunter has been out on Netflix, 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:06.800 which and then that's just one of those shows that 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:09.800 really gets you into the behavioral science department of the 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:14.160 FBI and how they're thinking about crimes in a series 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:17.680 really has evolved over time, and how the psychology of 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:20.800 some of these people, how it functions. I think it's 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:23.240 interesting how little action that show has, but how it 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:25.560 still keeps you on the edge of your seat, and 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:28.520 it really reveals so much about the inner workings, and 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:31.039 like a lot of the tension comes from conversation rather 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:33.920 than confrontation kind of. And I think it's really really 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:37.599 great show. But unlike some of the highlights from a show, 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:42.840 a fictionalized show like that, these murderers are not brilliant masterminds. 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:47.000 Many times, a lot of times they're just like you 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:50.799 and I. They have families, they have networks of friends, 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:54.520 they drive cars, they have a car note that they pay, 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:58.200 They've got a mortgage perhaps or something to that effect, 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:01.440 and they might even be on social media, and these 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:04.200 impulses that we're talking about, like this urge to kill 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:09.000 in this way is less some sort of calculated mastermind 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:11.280 kind of thing, and as it is like an addiction 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:14.840 that you're constantly struggling with and fighting every day and 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:17.440 having to kind of figure out how to incorporate it 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:20.640 into that family life and not be discovered, you know. 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:24.120 I mean, it's it's a really fascinating psychological landscape for 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:30.720 these crimes and serial killers like many other people, because ultimately, 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:36.560 these are not some sort of superpowered subspecies of humanity. 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:43.520 These are people at base right, and ultimately they are 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:47.880 as varied in terms of their demographic description or their 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:52.360 motivations as another person would be about their own, you know, 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:58.840 socioeconomic status thrown genetic makeup their aims and desires. Just 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:03.640 as there are are uh, serial killers who feel they 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:06.920 have voices commanding them to do something, there are also 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:11.880 serial killers who have belief that, you know, as Noll said, 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:14.560 there's a there's maybe a compulsion, and then there may 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:17.560 also be a belief that a certain amount of people 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:20.320 must be killed in a certain way for some sort 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:26.680 of design. Uh, these are not uh, cookie cutter profiles. 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:30.760 And we want to emphasize again the damning thing about 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:35.520 the information we do have, we being human civilization law 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:39.480 enforcement at large, is that we are basing these classifications 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:45.520 almost entirely on incomplete evidence, because we're only talking usually 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:48.480 about the ones who get caught, because how do you 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:51.400 talk about the ones who are still out there? I mean, 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:53.840 if you if you can't interview someone and they can't 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:56.840 tell you something, you're just inferring from what you find 0:08:56.840 --> 0:09:00.439 at a crime scene. So we've mentioned in previous episodes 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:04.920 that again pre mind Hunters, a lot of people would 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:08.719 be most familiar with certain fictional characters when they think 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:12.360 of serial killers, like a Hannibal Lecter, sure or Dexter 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:16.760 for instance. Right. And in both of those cases, the 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:22.160 killers are they ultimately transform into anti heroes, right. And 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:29.080 they are also meticulous and brilliant and very rarely driven 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:36.120 by passion rather than premeditation, which in real life is 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:40.560 not always the case. Have you guys seen Man Hunter, 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:44.760 the the original appearance of Hannibal Lecter the original Michael 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:47.920 Man movie. It's weird, it's very eighties, but it's it's 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:52.200 very beautifully shot. And Brian Cox plays Hannibal Lecter, which 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:55.200 is interesting because we know, you know the Anthony Hopkins 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:58.800 portrayal of that role so well, because it's so over 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:01.720 the top, kind of like you see him in that 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:04.199 role and you're almost like, how would anyone not peg 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:07.360 that dude for a psycho a mile away? Brian Cox 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:11.880 plays it much more understated and much more like, you know, 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:16.200 he could pass for a regular dude, whereas Anthony Hawkins, Well, 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:20.520 that performance is captivating. I kind of feel like, how 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:22.400 would you not know that that guy's got bodies in 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:25.640 his basement? I have to say really fast, when when 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:28.240 I hear Brian Cox, I think of the physicist that 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:33.120 that I remember from our days with Discovery, the younger Serant. 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:36.480 I believe he's a certain physicist, and I don't think 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:40.559 I know what Brian Cox, the actor looks like. Well 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:47.200 you are in luck. Oh yes, okay, very familiar. Okay, 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:50.080 So for everyone who can't see, because this is of 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:53.120 course coming to you as an audio podcast, Noel pulled 0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:57.720 up a photograph of Brian Cox for Matt's illumination and meanwhile, 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:01.640 I'm looking at the English they're in physicist. He does 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:03.440 come up first, though I know why. I think I 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.079 spelled Brian's name wrong. He has an English spelling maybe 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:09.719 b R I A N versus. No. No other names 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:12.160 are spell identically, but Brian Cox, the physicist definitely comes 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:15.640 up before the actor. Good on you, Google. You know what. 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:18.000 I will take that a step further and say, good 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:21.640 on you humanity. Maybe it's because Stephen Hawking died today 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:25.160 and so physics are a top of mind. Yeah, I 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:28.080 guess it worked. That was a top thing. That's true. Yes, 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:32.400 as we're recording this, it is both the anniversary of 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:36.240 Albert Einstein's birth, it is Pie Day, and it is 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:42.199 the day that Stephen Hawkings, legendary astrophysicist, expired. This may 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:45.640 well be old news by the time this hits the airwaves, 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:50.280 but hopefully it's still relevant and what a fascinating would 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:53.480 have would have fascinating person. But wait, you may be seeing, 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:58.599 isn't this an episode about uncaught serial killers? It is, indeed, 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:01.880 and we'll dive into that after a word from our sponsor. 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:13.640 Here's where it gets crazy. There are so many serial 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:16.559 killers that have been active over the years that are 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:20.960 still uncaught that may be active right now, maybe we're 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:24.160 just unaware of it. Um or that have been caught 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:28.839 and released or caught and then you know, evidence, very 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:32.640 compelling evidence exists, but some technicality has allowed them to 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:37.280 walk free. Possibility, or as also happens, they may have 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:42.280 been apprehended for another crime and not tied to the 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:45.760 murders right as the case might be, but instead be 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:49.880 languishing in prison for some time. And then maybe police 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:54.439 are out, authorities are looking for someone and they're right 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:58.080 under their noses. We just don't know. So let's travel 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:02.600 to India, to Mumbai, and let's look at some specific 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:07.480 examples of serial killers on the loose or at least unapprehended. Today, 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:11.040 we're looking at a killer known as beer Man. That's 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:14.640 our first example. And yes, that is beer b e R. 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:17.720 Like something you would you know, cold when you would 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:21.720 crack open with the boys, to paraphrase Reddit. So between 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:25.319 October two thousand and six and January two thousand seven 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:29.600 and by India, uh, the press and law enforcement were 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:33.480 on the track of a killer they called beer Man 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:37.720 because according to them, them being the press and law enforcement, 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:42.120 one of the primary linkages between these deaths was the 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:46.400 presence of beer bottles near the bodies. But you'll find 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:50.120 conflicting info about this case. Yeah. One source said there 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:54.439 were only two beer cans found throughout the entirety of 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:57.400 the serial killers run um and it was only two 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:00.960 victims and they were in fact beer cans. But again, 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:04.400 this is reporting from India and the sources we're using 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:07.560 or everything from the Times of India, UH to dy 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:12.200 t V too. There's a blog called open Something that 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:14.600 I can't recall any of it right now, but they're 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:19.440 they're varying sources and we're definitely getting conflicting information. You 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:22.680 ever notice how in most movies about serial killers, the 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:25.680 cops always are super piste. When the press gives a 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:28.840 snappy nickname to a killer like that is not serving 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:31.760 their goals, Usually they're usually very annoyed, or if someone 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:34.720 refers to them like that as an internal memo, they're like, 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:37.880 you know, you better not let this get out. Yeah, 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:41.000 And that happens in real life too, because one of 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:43.520 the one of the things that puts the press and 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:47.800 law enforcement and loggerheads in the investigations of these crimes 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:52.160 is going to be uh. The idea of the good scoop, 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:57.040 the exclusive scoop versus uh, the need to hold information 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:01.400 back so they can real identify the killer. Because another 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:04.680 trope in fiction that does turn out to be true, unfortunately, 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:09.800 is that when the specific details of a murder or 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:15.240 a murderer's rituals are released, copycat people or or people 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:18.520 who want the attention will just call into the police 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:21.600 department and say, you know, you got me. I am 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:25.040 the bag of Badger's butcher or whatever. I knew it 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:28.320 was you all along. Ben, Oh, this is my Paul impression. 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:30.080 I like it now, but it's true. And you can 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:32.560 you imagine being a compresponsible for solving one of these crimes, 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:35.200 and how annoying and like muddling it must be when 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:39.320 this information starts flooding the press and you're constantly having 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:43.800 to differentiate between real information and these jerks that are 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:45.600 just trying to like waste your time and get a 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:48.040 little you know, get a little rise. You know, I can't. 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:51.240 I mean, you know, but then from a journalist perspective, 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:55.520 it's almost your duty to inform the people around you 0:15:55.640 --> 0:16:00.640 the public dangers that exist. So know, you have those 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:07.080 two competing things, and you know, we can't assign motives 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:12.200 to journalism entire because it's also true that journalist will 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:17.920 seek to gain the most credibility in the media marketplace. 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:21.000 And it's also true they want to uh sell the 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:24.280 most uh maybe sell the most papers back in the day, 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:28.480 get the most clicks online nowadays. And yes, by the way, 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:33.680 side note, it's entirely possible that an active serial killer 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:37.360 today is on social media just because of the numbers. However, 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:41.480 uh One one thing that we have noticed in the 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:44.320 past is that there have been times where journalists have 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:49.160 assigned a killer or a perceived killer a nickname that 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:53.320 the killer themselves objected to, you know, like don't call 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:57.360 me the baby rubber I am, you know, the King 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:01.880 of Darkness, and then it become it introduces this whole 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:07.919 new layer of complication with investigating the case. And you know, 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:11.159 one of the things that law enforcement doesn't want a 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:14.720 killer to do. One of the reasons they disclike nicknames 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:18.360 in general is because some of these murders have latched 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:21.320 onto this in the past. Right Jack the Ripper, right, 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:25.080 uh the axe man in New Orleans or h let's see, 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:28.760 did the Zodiac killer self assigned? That's a weird one. Though, right, 0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:32.320 because I feel like he set the terms for his 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:34.600 role and then the press kind of fed back into 0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:37.359 it and became this like weird feedback loop. Um, but 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:38.920 I kind of want to say he at least had 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:41.080 a symbol of some kind or did he sign his 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:45.359 letters Zodiac. We're going to have to dive in. We 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:48.479 could do an entire episode on the Zodiac killer. For now, 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:51.360 let's look at the beer Man. Let's go back to India. 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:54.800 Current speculation as we record this puts the number of 0:17:54.880 --> 0:18:00.119 victims at between six to eight individuals. Their methods of 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:04.119 murder differ. They were killed by being hit on the 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:07.239 head with a stone, in some cases bludgeoned or in 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:10.840 other cases, according to in d t V, they were 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:15.119 stabbed in the chest. Yeah, several different types of bludgeonings 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:20.440 occurred and stabbings from the reports we had read, um 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:22.879 though all the men there were there were several men. 0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:25.479 The first victim was a taxi driver that was found. 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:30.760 All the men were poor or not at least not wealthy. Um. 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:33.680 Some of them were homeless. It was surmised that the 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:37.239 killer himself was probably not poor. And this is for 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:41.360 several several reasons. Because first of all, he drinks beer 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:45.280 out of cans, which I guess is a a factor. Um. 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:48.399 And then also because he must have been or was 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:52.080 probably operating a vehicle of some sort, and you have 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:54.359 to have a certain amount of money in India in 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:57.240 that area to own or at least operate a vehicle 0:18:57.320 --> 0:18:59.399 in any part of the world. Wouldn't ad a glass 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:04.040 be fancy? Possibly, I don't. I don't know the customs 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:07.680 in that area, but yeah, it was. It was given 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:11.160 as drinking beer from a can was one of the reasons. Well, 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:15.360 I know that in cases with glass bottled beverages like 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:19.960 Thumbs Up, which is popular soda, that the glasses are 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:24.800 typically purchased and returned and then refilled, so that that 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:27.520 might play a role in there. They also attempted to 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:31.959 build a profile, and they said that the killer was 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:38.320 likely young, early thirties, thirty five and uh in pretty 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:41.560 good physical shape because he was able to overpower his 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:46.200 victims easily. The killers uh. The sites of the murders 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:51.080 were secluded spots, which to them indicated that this murderer 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:55.960 knew South Mumbai well, or here's the terrifying thing, knows 0:19:56.119 --> 0:20:00.960 South Mumbai well. And the perpetrator of these crimes was 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:05.200 believed to have had sex with five of his victims 0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:09.639 before killing them. Um. At the fourth scene, the killer 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:14.080 allegedly left a note which was written in very polished English. Uh. 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:15.920 And while he may have had good English, he did 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:18.760 not have good handwritting, apparently because most of the text 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:21.639 of the letter was undecipherable. Or it's possible that the 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:24.480 cops chose not to release the contents and full and 0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:27.840 just exerted instead. Um. But one of the things that 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:32.400 was contained in the note was the quite chilling welcome 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:37.119 to the clan. Yeah yeah, what does that mean? Like 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:40.960 an initiation of some sort? Right c l A and 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:44.800 not kale right? Uh So Again, there are differences in 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:48.160 the m O the mode of operation here, specifically stabbing 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:53.240 versus bludgeoning or also strangulation. Uh. Police believe that these 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:57.320 murders have been committed by the same man and then 0:20:57.600 --> 0:21:01.040 things took a turn. On January twenty in two thousand 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:05.240 and seven, Mumbai law enforcement arrested someone for the murders, 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:10.119 a man named Revendra um control and it's also written 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:14.760 Contralo in a couple of places. Um So, Revendra cantroll, 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:16.560 I think that's what we'll probably call him for this. 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:19.199 They rested him for the murders, and according to the 0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:21.800 Times of India, once he was in custody, he was 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:25.880 subjected to several tests, some of which I at least 0:21:25.920 --> 0:21:30.040 personally was not familiar with. They called it one narco analysis, 0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:33.399 which we think is probably just a drug test of 0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:37.040 some sort, brain mapping which I have not seen used 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:41.160 in law enforcement. UH, and polygraph So let's go through 0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:46.200 these really fast. The narco analysis tests that Mr Revendra 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:49.520 went through, they seem to clear up the beer mystery. 0:21:49.560 --> 0:21:54.400 According to the Times of India, UM saying okay, so 0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:58.200 he allegedly said, as he's going through this test that 0:21:58.880 --> 0:22:02.320 he would make him his victims drink beer before killing them, 0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:07.560 but he did deny. According to the Times of India, UH, 0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:10.960 any sexual conduct with his victims and a lot of 0:22:11.000 --> 0:22:16.240 homophobia draws into this part of the investigation, which has happened, 0:22:16.320 --> 0:22:20.080 happened before. For instance, uh. One of John Wayne gay 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:24.440 Sy's primary things that he stuck to for his entire 0:22:24.480 --> 0:22:28.040 time in prison was that he was not a homosexual, 0:22:28.119 --> 0:22:31.159 and he was very irritated and frustrated that he felt 0:22:31.359 --> 0:22:35.000 the press was unfairly calling him that. And there's there's 0:22:35.040 --> 0:22:40.000 an echo of this here with the suspect revengea controller 0:22:40.400 --> 0:22:44.320 saying that he was being falsely accused of being attracted 0:22:44.359 --> 0:22:46.960 to the same sex, and that trope actually going to 0:22:47.040 --> 0:22:50.040 come into play later on in today's episode in a 0:22:50.080 --> 0:22:52.959 in a very big way. Now, the other tests, when 0:22:53.000 --> 0:22:55.280 the other ones, was called brain mapping, and with this 0:22:55.359 --> 0:23:00.119 one controller was attached to a device that looked at 0:23:00.600 --> 0:23:05.200 I guess brain signals, brain waves, if you will, um, 0:23:05.240 --> 0:23:09.080 while he's looking at pictures of victims from these the 0:23:09.080 --> 0:23:12.920 beer Man killings, like some black mirrors stuff. It does, right, 0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:16.879 And allegedly, according to these sources, he showed signs of 0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:21.320 recognizing several of the photographs. So maybe the activity in 0:23:21.320 --> 0:23:23.960 a certain region of his brain spiked when he saw 0:23:24.440 --> 0:23:27.879 certain photographs. And then we're assuming if it were to 0:23:28.080 --> 0:23:32.040 be a valid test, they would also present him with 0:23:32.080 --> 0:23:36.800 pictures of strangers, yes, and contrast those, uh, those findings. 0:23:36.800 --> 0:23:39.359 So yeah, but we don't have the specifics of these 0:23:39.359 --> 0:23:42.600 tests that were performed over vendra Um. The last one 0:23:42.640 --> 0:23:47.520 is polygraph which is inadmissible in US courts because it's 0:23:47.520 --> 0:23:51.000 a load of hooey. Yes, and those are the tests. 0:23:51.800 --> 0:23:53.800 You know this already, but those are the tests that 0:23:54.200 --> 0:23:56.960 look at how your body is responding to stress while 0:23:57.000 --> 0:23:59.920 you're under questioning. Oh, do we tell everybody the way 0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:02.360 to be a polygraph on this show or the way 0:24:02.400 --> 0:24:07.879 to render it method? That's one yeah, yeah, what what 0:24:08.000 --> 0:24:09.720 is the thumb tap? I think if you just have 0:24:09.880 --> 0:24:13.679 like a a baseline of pain that you have, it 0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:16.119 can skew the entire results. So if you like sneak 0:24:16.160 --> 0:24:18.480 in a thumb tack and just like stab yourself in 0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:20.760 the lag with a thumb tack the entire time, it's 0:24:20.800 --> 0:24:24.040 going to exkew the results. Where the baseline of like 0:24:24.359 --> 0:24:26.919 calmness I guess that it's looking for is going to 0:24:26.960 --> 0:24:30.400 be much more difficult to ascertain. And it may look 0:24:30.440 --> 0:24:33.439 like a faked test, it's like you know, or it 0:24:33.480 --> 0:24:36.120 may look like a botch test or something was wrong, 0:24:36.160 --> 0:24:38.439 but they certainly can't actually get anything useful out of it. 0:24:39.040 --> 0:24:42.680 This yeah, yeah, yeah, And that's it's similar to the 0:24:42.720 --> 0:24:47.560 other approach, which is to just uh, for the entire 0:24:47.680 --> 0:24:52.240 length of the interview, really flex your butt and and 0:24:52.680 --> 0:24:55.960 like really put some put some effort into it. Uh. 0:24:56.040 --> 0:24:59.960 So that again there's this strain that alters the bay 0:25:00.119 --> 0:25:04.040 s line. You know, for Atlanta Monster, we had we 0:25:04.080 --> 0:25:06.880 interviewed a gentleman who performed a polygraph on Wayne Williams. 0:25:07.040 --> 0:25:08.560 And one of the things he said is there are 0:25:08.600 --> 0:25:12.320 sensors now in the chairs to prevent that that very thing, 0:25:12.440 --> 0:25:15.120 so you clenching anything like that. They do like a 0:25:15.119 --> 0:25:18.200 full search now if they ever do these not the 0:25:18.359 --> 0:25:21.840 polygraphs are just you know, being used all over the 0:25:21.840 --> 0:25:24.480 place in law enforcement. But they, yeah, they that method 0:25:24.600 --> 0:25:28.240 was real, So let's all get some thumb tax or 0:25:28.320 --> 0:25:30.800 maybe not kill people. That's also the way it's laughable 0:25:30.840 --> 0:25:33.959 when someone accused of sexual misconduct will come up, come 0:25:33.960 --> 0:25:36.399 out and say, but look, I I took a polygraph 0:25:36.560 --> 0:25:39.320 by my own, you know, I I volunteered to do it. 0:25:39.359 --> 0:25:41.879 Here the results check it out. It's like, dude, you 0:25:42.000 --> 0:25:45.400 just yeah. And just the one last thing with those 0:25:45.400 --> 0:25:49.760 polygraphs Wayne Williams, they they performed three tests, so they 0:25:49.840 --> 0:25:52.520 run the same questions three times and they don't look 0:25:52.520 --> 0:25:55.680