Speaker 1: Hey all you sucky daters out there. Jared and Dean here,
Speaker 1: and we have the pleasure of introducing a brand new
Speaker 1: episode of What a Girl Wants this week. I love
Speaker 1: how Jared has become like a nighttime radio announcer. It
Speaker 1: kind of reminds me of Tiger King. Hey all you
Speaker 1: cool cats and kittens. I've been listening to Delilah too much.
Speaker 1: I love it. I think it's fantastic. We do have
Speaker 1: a great What a Girl Wants episode for you this week.
Speaker 1: I love What a Girl Wants. Not only does it
Speaker 1: allow us to take an extra day off, which let's
Speaker 1: be honest, I need as many days off as I
Speaker 1: can get, but it allows us to get to better
Speaker 1: know the people that are also in this franchise. And
Speaker 1: this week we have a very special episode for you.
Speaker 1: It is a lease del Bomb. She was on Colts
Speaker 1: and season Uh. She, as Jared has so eloquently put it,
Speaker 1: was in the running for the Bachelorurette. I still think
Speaker 1: she might be at some point later on. She's probably
Speaker 1: gonna grace her screens again on Paradise at some point
Speaker 1: in her lifetime, hopefully. But she's fantastic. She has a
Speaker 1: great guest this week as well. Uh this week on
Speaker 1: What a Girl Wants is a lease be sure to
Speaker 1: stay tuned. What a Girl Wants help my second dating spinoff,
Speaker 1: and then I have already podcast. Thanks so much to
Speaker 1: Dan and Jared for having me again. I'm so excited
Speaker 1: to be taking over this episode of What a Girl Wants.
Speaker 1: And you may know me from The Bachelor as the
Speaker 1: self proclaimed cougar. So today I want to talk about
Speaker 1: what it's really like dating in your thirties. There's certainly
Speaker 1: some obstacles that come along with it. For instance, I
Speaker 1: honestly do not know how to approach some of the
Speaker 1: subjects that I would never have thought to even talk
Speaker 1: about when I was in my twenties, such as divorce, kids,
Speaker 1: all of these things that quite frankly, I never would
Speaker 1: have even thought to bring up when I started dating
Speaker 1: someone um in my younger years. So now I'm trying
Speaker 1: to navigate how to approach these subjects in a way
Speaker 1: that doesn't absolutely terrify men off. And today I'm so
Speaker 1: excited that we're going to have a guest on that
Speaker 1: might be able to help us. But um, specifically for me,
Speaker 1: I've noticed that when you're dating in your thirties. Not
Speaker 1: only is there this societal standpoint of you should be
Speaker 1: married and you should already have kids, but for those
Speaker 1: of us that decided to focus on career or maybe
Speaker 1: we just haven't found that person yet. UM, when you're
Speaker 1: having initial date conversations, you have to get to those
Speaker 1: deal breaker points a lot quicker of do you want
Speaker 1: want more kids if they already have them? Or do
Speaker 1: you want kids in general? Have you been divorced? What's
Speaker 1: the relationship like with their ex? All of these things
Speaker 1: are so difficult to figure out how to properly navigate without,
Speaker 1: like I said, completely terrifying the eye off, as if
Speaker 1: you're just in a rush to walk down the aisle.
Speaker 1: Have you um dated anyone with kids or that's been divorced,
Speaker 1: And what was that like having those conversations with them?
Speaker 1: You know, I actually most of my serious relationships have
Speaker 1: been with people that have children, and I think that
Speaker 1: gives me a little bit of perspective of being on
Speaker 1: the other side of it. They were um, significantly older
Speaker 1: than me, had gone through divorce, had kids, and it
Speaker 1: was it was a bit of a struggle. I loved
Speaker 1: the children, absolutely loved them, but it's difficult to navigate
Speaker 1: those relationships when you know it's just not you and
Speaker 1: that person, you're also in a relationship with the X
Speaker 1: because they are then you know, the mom of the
Speaker 1: relationship and trying to figure out how you fall into
Speaker 1: line with that. UM. So I think that's been beneficial
Speaker 1: to me having those experiences in my twenties, but now
Speaker 1: doing it from a position of, hey, maybe I'm in
Speaker 1: a place where I'm thinking about having kids or um.
Speaker 1: You know, like I said, the biological standpoint of all right,
Speaker 1: we need to get to these conversations a little quicker
Speaker 1: because I don't want to invest the time and emotion
Speaker 1: into a relationship if I don't know that we are
Speaker 1: at least on the same page of what our future
Speaker 1: goals are regarding those topics. Yeah, like what are some
Speaker 1: of those I guess deal breakers? Um that you come
Speaker 1: to learn our deal breakers as you get older. Well
Speaker 1: my list has certainly expanded since I've gotten older, having
Speaker 1: gone through some not so great relationships. But you know,
Speaker 1: for me, as someone who is and I'll be honest,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if I want children. I loved the
Speaker 1: experience of kind of being that um standing mom, But
Speaker 1: because I'm unsure of it. I want to have someone
Speaker 1: that is open to the possibility that we can if
Speaker 1: I found the right partner, we can have that dialogue
Speaker 1: of Okay, we're we're ready to expand not just us
Speaker 1: as a couple, and maybe start a family. And I
Speaker 1: don't know if I would be willing to be in
Speaker 1: a relationship with someone that maybe is coming from a
Speaker 1: divorce where they've already gone through those life experiences of
Speaker 1: having children and feel like, Okay, I've been there, done that.
Speaker 1: I'm happy to raise the children I have and don't
Speaker 1: want to bring anybody else into the mix. Um. Those
Speaker 1: are conversations that are really really difficult and and sensitive
Speaker 1: to but also have to be broached UM kind of
Speaker 1: early on, because again, I don't want to invest the
Speaker 1: time or energy into someone that doesn't want the same
Speaker 1: things as me. Yeah. I a couple of years ago
Speaker 1: I dated someone with UM that was divorced. I'm twenty three.
Speaker 1: Excuse me, I'm twenty three, and I was like twenty one.
Speaker 1: And I look back now, and I mean it was
Speaker 1: only two years ago, but I was like, what was
Speaker 1: I thinking? But something I thought was like very difficult?
Speaker 1: Was UM not thinking about like, wow, they've already had
Speaker 1: those first um and like I won't be the first
Speaker 1: for some of those things. Do you think that that's
Speaker 1: something difficult that you had to like get I guess
Speaker 1: get over or like move on from knowing that? And
Speaker 1: do you think that in future relationships, like a future relationship,
Speaker 1: you would want to have those first experiences with them?
Speaker 1: To me, and I completely agree with you because I
Speaker 1: was twenty three when I didd Um the first guy
Speaker 1: that had children, And I have to say it was
Speaker 1: tough because I was so used to relationships where you
Speaker 1: are there you know, maybe work or family come first,
Speaker 1: but otherwise you're their first priority. And when you're dating
Speaker 1: people that have children, you're not. And so that comes
Speaker 1: with a little bit of an ego struggle too of
Speaker 1: navigating that. But also where you're talking about first, that
Speaker 1: was a challenge because I was thinking, Okay, this in
Speaker 1: that significant age gap, he might be kind of over
Speaker 1: and done with this experience and have already raised kids
Speaker 1: and changed diapers and we won't potentially have that experience together,
Speaker 1: which was so important to me just for myself that
Speaker 1: that maybe I wanted to have those first to have
Speaker 1: the morning where you're videotaping kids on on Christmas morning,
Speaker 1: taking apart their gifts, and trying to understand how I
Speaker 1: could get over not potentially having that experience, but fully
Speaker 1: immersing myself in the fact that he had wonderful children
Speaker 1: and being trying to figure out my role a little bit,
Speaker 1: figure out my role as I might not be used
Speaker 1: to this situation. I might have my own, maybe ego
Speaker 1: or just nostalgia driven ideas of what I wanted for
Speaker 1: my future, but learning how to adapt it to the
Speaker 1: current situation of the current relationship I was in. And
Speaker 1: I think it is a struggle. But the biggest takeaway
Speaker 1: I have from someone who's done this a couple of
Speaker 1: times is it is so so incredibly fulfilling, whether the
Speaker 1: children are not biologically yours or not, to be able
Speaker 1: to take part and have the trust and respect from
Speaker 1: not only the person you're with but their past partner
Speaker 1: to be allowed into those situations. And I'll tell you
Speaker 1: what you go through, Like I said one Christmas of
Speaker 1: watching kids open presence in it definitely changes your perspective
Speaker 1: a little bit of feeling like this is family, and
Speaker 1: family comes in all different shapes and sizes, but it's
Speaker 1: getting over what you had is this ideal for your
Speaker 1: own personal life, and especially when I was twenty three,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do this and this and this at this age,
Speaker 1: and and just realizing that life is is crazy and
Speaker 1: takes you in ways that you didn't expect and just
Speaker 1: being open to your situation might look a little different,
Speaker 1: but the feelings are still the same, and they're still
Speaker 1: so much joy in those those moments that Um, so
Speaker 1: you said that, Uh, it's been interesting to navigate the
Speaker 1: biological conversations while dating. Can you give us a little
Speaker 1: more detail on that, what that looks like and maybe
Speaker 1: some reactions you had. Yeah, absolutely, I think it's it's
Speaker 1: no secret, right we've all heard that good old stair
Speaker 1: type of like, oh the clock is ticking. Whether that's
Speaker 1: coming from um, just your own perception of what's going
Speaker 1: on in the world and society's ideals of where you
Speaker 1: should be at and especially in your thirties, but also
Speaker 1: I'll be honest, we have those family members that tell
Speaker 1: us to like, Okay, I want grandkids. What's happening like
Speaker 1: at this point, you don't even have to get married,
Speaker 1: Just give me a grand baby. Um, it's it's really
Speaker 1: tough trying to figure out what you want versus what
Speaker 1: you think is expected of you. But then once you
Speaker 1: really narrow it down to like I said, for me,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if having my own biological children is
Speaker 1: a huge priority in my life, but I want someone
Speaker 1: to be open to it. So trying to have those
Speaker 1: conversations right away in a relationship is so incredibly awkward,
Speaker 1: and I still am trying to figure out how to
Speaker 1: have those conversations in a way that doesn't seem like, hey,
Speaker 1: excuse me, sir. You know pounding on your wristwatch clock
Speaker 1: is ticking. I know we've been here for forty five minutes.
Speaker 1: But do what kids? Do you want to get married?
Speaker 1: Do you want children? What is your future goals and aspirations?
Speaker 1: I mean that can come on a bit strong. So
Speaker 1: just I'm I'm glad that I'm on this podcast, and
Speaker 1: I might not be the one to particularly talk about
Speaker 1: because I'm still trying to navigate how to have those conversations,
Speaker 1: UM in a way that doesn't make someone go running
Speaker 1: for the hills. Yeah, well, luckily we're gonna have an
Speaker 1: expert on later and maybe they can with that. UM.
Speaker 1: So you were considered the cougar. But you said that
Speaker 1: you've been UM dating a lot older, So have you
Speaker 1: still been dating younger? What is that looking like? Are you?
Speaker 1: Do you have a preference in uh in men and
Speaker 1: like age that I was that self proclaimed cougar. I
Speaker 1: knew it was going to be a joke going into
Speaker 1: Colton season that he was significantly younger and less experienced
Speaker 1: than I was in a lot of ways, so I
Speaker 1: figured if I made the joke first, nobody else could.
Speaker 1: But since the show, and I will give them credit,
Speaker 1: it kind of opened my eyes because, like you said,
Speaker 1: I haven't dated anyone younger than me ever, and I
Speaker 1: think because I had gone through a lot um in
Speaker 1: my early twenties, I felt like I connected to people
Speaker 1: that were UM a little older than I am. I
Speaker 1: have to say since the show, I've had some flour
Speaker 1: takeeations with men that are younger than me. But I
Speaker 1: still think UM as much as I understand that every
Speaker 1: relationship looks different for me, I hate to say it,
Speaker 1: but I think I'm still looking for someone my age
Speaker 1: or a little bit older. UM. Maybe not the great
Speaker 1: age gaps that I dated in my twenties, having a
Speaker 1: thirteen year age gap I mean, wow, that's a lot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a lot. Yeah. But I think now I'm just
Speaker 1: looking for someone that maybe it'sn't so much focused on age,
Speaker 1: but has similar experiences whether it comes to dating or
Speaker 1: just life experiences where we're on the same um, in
Speaker 1: the same place as far as what we're looking for
Speaker 1: and in our focus on that and priorities around it help.
Speaker 1: I second dating, we how do you reach only on
Speaker 1: with Dean and Jared? And you said that during quarantine
Speaker 1: you dated someone, but ultimately you realize that if you
Speaker 1: weren't in quarantine, it probably wouldn't have happened. Um. And
Speaker 1: they after you got off, they were so curious and
Speaker 1: they were like, who is it? And they felt like, uh,
Speaker 1: it was someone possibly from the franchise? Was it? It
Speaker 1: was not someone from the Bachelor. Um, it was someone
Speaker 1: that maybe people would recognize. But here's my thoughts on
Speaker 1: being public and social media and all that good stuff.
Speaker 1: I've already shared way more about my life on television
Speaker 1: than I ever anticipated, and why I think it's great
Speaker 1: to celebrate love and relationships until I'm in a committed
Speaker 1: monogamous relationship with someone. Um, where I think, all right,
Speaker 1: we're in a good place. I have no desire to
Speaker 1: share that with the world because I'm sure anyone who
Speaker 1: follows anyone from this franchise you see a lot of
Speaker 1: critiques and criticisms, and when you start sharing your relationship,
Speaker 1: you're also opening it up to those same critiques. And
Speaker 1: I think you need to be in a really strong
Speaker 1: place in your relationship, at least for me personally, before
Speaker 1: I would ever share that. But no, he was not
Speaker 1: from The Bachelor. Um, But I just made a decision
Speaker 1: that until I'm in a committed relationship, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to divulge their privacy and open them up to those
Speaker 1: same criticisms that we receive. Relationships are hard enough without
Speaker 1: social media's opinion on on your partner, right, is there?
Speaker 1: If there's like one thing that you took away from
Speaker 1: your season on The Bachelor, like, what would you say
Speaker 1: that that was? It was probably something I didn't anticipate
Speaker 1: taking away. I kind of went into it thinking like
Speaker 1: this is the world's craziest blind date, and what I
Speaker 1: took from it is we all want love, right, And
Speaker 1: how much of my time have I really focused to
Speaker 1: the pursuit of that I was in? Like I said,
Speaker 1: pretty serious relationships in my early twenties, but then right
Speaker 1: before my thirtieth birthday, went through a breakup and decided, Okay,
Speaker 1: I've given my time, my money, my attention, my everything
Speaker 1: to these relationships, and now I want to focus on
Speaker 1: me and be quote unquote selfish. And it was kind
Speaker 1: of alarming to me when I was on the Bachelor
Speaker 1: of how little time I was actually prioritizing for what
Speaker 1: I felt like it's a huge priority of my life,
Speaker 1: which is finding a partner and trying to in my
Speaker 1: normal life kind of navigate those priorities. I didn't do
Speaker 1: very well. I was focused on work and business and
Speaker 1: things of that nature. So my biggest takeaway was when
Speaker 1: you are really wanting something in your life, you have
Speaker 1: to set aside the time to dedicate to it. Because
Speaker 1: we all say we want love and to find that,
Speaker 1: you know, happily ever after, if you will. But so
Speaker 1: much of our life is full of distractions and things
Speaker 1: that we have to get done in our relationships with
Speaker 1: family and friends, that it really doesn't afford a whole
Speaker 1: lot of time unless you carve it out purposefully to
Speaker 1: finding your person. Do you is there anyone like in
Speaker 1: your family or friends that are kind of like a
Speaker 1: model for you, or something that or someone that you like,
Speaker 1: like your family's relationships like is that something that you
Speaker 1: value and like seek in a future partnership as well?
Speaker 1: One hundred percent I think in my life a huge
Speaker 1: turning point for me. Um. I talked a little bit
Speaker 1: about it on when I was on the Bachelor, but
Speaker 1: when my sister got sick, I found just this huge,
Speaker 1: huge takeaway from that experience was not only you know,
Speaker 1: grief and all of those things, but watching my dad
Speaker 1: and how he interacted with my mom during that time,
Speaker 1: and how her husband dealt with her. It took away
Speaker 1: just the desire to date someone who was, you know,
Speaker 1: the good looking guy at the gym, to really wanting
Speaker 1: a partner in life because I had such strong male
Speaker 1: examples of what that looks like. Of when excuse my language,
Speaker 1: but when ship hits the fan and things are just
Speaker 1: at their absolute worst, that not one of the men
Speaker 1: that I saw. My dad her husband complained once and
Speaker 1: it was immediately taking care and nurturing their partner, taking
Speaker 1: away any ego. UM obviously experiencing their own feelings around it,
Speaker 1: but there was never a doubt of if those men
Speaker 1: were going to stand up for their partner and be there.
Speaker 1: And I realized in that moment watching that that I
Speaker 1: had dated a lot of men who I would question
Speaker 1: if they would stick around in those very difficult times.
Speaker 1: It's easy when things are, you know, honeymoon phase and
Speaker 1: and it's light and area and it's candles and romance.
Speaker 1: But when life hands you a really difficult card, you
Speaker 1: want a person that is without question going to show
Speaker 1: up for you, because I know for myself I would
Speaker 1: do the same, but I had not seen it so
Speaker 1: tangibly until I watched how they dealt with what was
Speaker 1: a horrific time in our family history. And I just
Speaker 1: can't applaud them enough and honestly thanked them enough for
Speaker 1: that lesson that came from such an awful experience, but
Speaker 1: definitely taught me what to look for in the future
Speaker 1: when I'm entering relationships. That's huge, and I can relate
Speaker 1: to that because my mom recudainly passed away and um no,
Speaker 1: but I can relate to that grief and that that
Speaker 1: grief is so substantial and it's like a a level
Speaker 1: of trauma that like you don't even have words to describe.
Speaker 1: So the fact that you had men to be that
Speaker 1: example of like what union looks like. I mean, that's incredible,
Speaker 1: and like I can imagine that that UM is like
Speaker 1: a standard that is like non negotiable at this point
Speaker 1: for you. No, I mean we talked about deal breakers
Speaker 1: early on in this episode, but I think that is
Speaker 1: the hugest part is My takeaway from that experience is truthfully,
Speaker 1: you want a partner. Yes, it's nice to hear all
Speaker 1: these stereotypical like I want a best friend in romance
Speaker 1: and you know, we watched the Notebook and think that
Speaker 1: that's how life should be. But in reality, I want
Speaker 1: someone that even in the most difficult times of our life,
Speaker 1: I will never have to question if they're going to
Speaker 1: be by my side trying to navigate through those And
Speaker 1: that is something that I have certainly said a standard
Speaker 1: for because I've seen that in the past. And I'm not,
Speaker 1: you know, trying to inflate my own ego when I've
Speaker 1: said this, but in the past relationships I've had, I've
Speaker 1: been that partner and have very rarely gotten that in
Speaker 1: return when something in my life was a struggle it um,
Speaker 1: I didn't have that partner that would stand beside me
Speaker 1: through it. Yeah, I was going to ask you about
Speaker 1: that because you've been vocal about UM, difficult things that
Speaker 1: you've been through in past relationships. UM. Do you feel that, um,
Speaker 1: it's been difficult to get into to be present in
Speaker 1: like healthy relationships or are you healed from those past traumas?
Speaker 1: How does that play a role in navigating the future relationships?
Speaker 1: You know, I wish that it didn't play as much
Speaker 1: of a role as it did. Um. I think we
Speaker 1: have this idea of Okay, it happened to get over
Speaker 1: at movement on? You don't that is not something that
Speaker 1: you move on from. There's going to be things that
Speaker 1: trigger I mean just silly things that you would never
Speaker 1: have anticipated that trigger certain painful moments in your life,
Speaker 1: and especially when you've gone through an abusive relationship like
Speaker 1: I've shared it is. It's something that I would like
Speaker 1: to believe isn't an obstacle in future dating relationships, but
Speaker 1: it absolutely is. There's times where maybe I'll get into
Speaker 1: an argument, which we all are going to argue in relationships,
Speaker 1: but maybe certain words or how it's delivered certainly bring
Speaker 1: me back. And that's something that isn't the responsibility of
Speaker 1: your partner because they didn't do anything wrong. You can't take,
Speaker 1: you know, all of your baggage and blame it on
Speaker 1: the next person. It's something that I will have to
Speaker 1: personally take accountability of, Hey, this is what happened to
Speaker 1: me in this moment, even though you are not the
Speaker 1: one that did this to me, it's triggering something from
Speaker 1: my past. So either take a break and come back
Speaker 1: to the situation um or just the acknowledgement of like, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm struggling right now, and that's a really vulnerable place
Speaker 1: to put yourself in. But I think it's so important because,
Speaker 1: like I said, we have this idea that you just
Speaker 1: get over things and move on and you know, be
Speaker 1: a bass girl, bass babe, whatever they say. But that's
Speaker 1: just not true. We all have gone through things in
Speaker 1: our lives and that have affected us and will continue
Speaker 1: to affect us in ways, like I said, that are unexpected.
Speaker 1: But it's just taking accountability for this is not that
Speaker 1: person's fault that I'm in a relationship with. Now. I
Speaker 1: need to own how I'm feeling in this moment and
Speaker 1: not make it about them. Wow. I needed to hear
Speaker 1: that because and I'll share later on my story, but
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm in that right now. UM. Not
Speaker 1: UM not being able to let go of past traumas
Speaker 1: and carry those into future relationships and be president then UM.
Speaker 1: So I'm excited to hear what our expert has to
Speaker 1: say and what you have to say, and maybe I
Speaker 1: can get some guidance because I'm sucking at dating and
Speaker 1: this is the spin off of UM, What a Girl Wants?
Speaker 1: So UM, on a lighter note, what are some embarrassing
Speaker 1: moments you've had dating? And UM, maybe maybe that you
Speaker 1: did or that the guy did embarrassing moments. I mean,
Speaker 1: how long is this podcast I have? I think I
Speaker 1: have to say probably, And this was not necessarily anything
Speaker 1: that I did. But trying to date after the show
Speaker 1: has been quite interesting, especially with men. And because I don't,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not like Hi and Meleese, I'm from
Speaker 1: The Bachelor, do you know? Me? Hi, That's not how
Speaker 1: I approached things. But UM, I will never forget the
Speaker 1: first date I went on after the show, and I
Speaker 1: believe it was still airing at the time. I went
Speaker 1: out with a guy. I cannot seeing this guy's praises
Speaker 1: loud enough, but we wanted to keep it casual and
Speaker 1: we took his dog too. I think it was a
Speaker 1: rugby match, which I had never been to before, and
Speaker 1: he had no idea. I was on the show and
Speaker 1: all of a sudden people come up and you know,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, can we take a picture. And the
Speaker 1: look on this guy's face was like, who the heck
Speaker 1: am I on this date with I'm just at you know,
Speaker 1: college rugby game, And it was very flattering that, you know,
Speaker 1: people wanted to do pictures and stuff. But because I
Speaker 1: hadn't been upfront about being on a show, I learned
Speaker 1: very quickly that maybe you have to divulge that information.
Speaker 1: Because he stood there like I just can't describe it.
Speaker 1: He was massively uncomfortable and so incredibly confused. So that
Speaker 1: has been one interesting thing that you have to navigate
Speaker 1: if you're ever on one of these shows of how
Speaker 1: to also be like, hey, um, it doesn't define my life,
Speaker 1: but I was on a reality TV show and potentially
Speaker 1: people are gonna I think that we're in a relationship,
Speaker 1: talk about it online and I hope you're okay with that.
Speaker 1: Have you had some guys that are like, heck, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not doing this, or has everyone just kind of
Speaker 1: been like, Okay, I mean whatever, it's fine. I think
Speaker 1: for most they've taken it in stride, but it's certainly bizarre.
Speaker 1: I've never had any desire to be in the public
Speaker 1: eyes and makeup artists and very comfortable behind camera, so
Speaker 1: for me, it's been weird. So I cannot imagine what
Speaker 1: it feels like to be on the other side of like, Hey,
Speaker 1: we're just, you know, going out for a lunch date,
Speaker 1: and why are these people coming up and and saying
Speaker 1: hello as if they know her? And she doesn't have
Speaker 1: any clear idea who these people are. Especially on a
Speaker 1: show like The Bachelor, people have a pretty clear understanding
Speaker 1: of maybe their perception of who you are and your
Speaker 1: life history. So you almost become like friends that have
Speaker 1: never met, and so there's a bond there that it's
Speaker 1: it's hard to explain that to someone who has maybe
Speaker 1: never watched the show or been through a similar experience.
Speaker 1: I think that's why so many Bachelor of people end
Speaker 1: up dating each other, because you don't have to have
Speaker 1: that awkward conversation of hey, if we go on a date,
Speaker 1: people might come up and chat with us, and and
Speaker 1: for them how to navigate that as well, right, because
Speaker 1: you're you were both in it, you're both currently in it,
Speaker 1: so that seems a lot easier to navigate. Well, we
Speaker 1: clearly have no idea how to navigate this, and I'm
Speaker 1: still figuring it out. So we're going to have after
Speaker 1: this break a man that I he doesn't know this yet,
Speaker 1: but man, I've come to love and he is a
Speaker 1: therapist and maybe he can give us some pointers of
Speaker 1: how to have these difficult conversations and be better in relationships. Alright, guys,
Speaker 1: we are back with what a girl wants and have
Speaker 1: I'm fan girl in a little bit because we have
Speaker 1: Dr Kirkanda, who has an amazing podcast and YouTube channel
Speaker 1: that as someone that was on The Bachelorette, I found
Speaker 1: because he reacts to reality TV shows and as the
Speaker 1: therapist and professor, has a different perspective than most of
Speaker 1: the audience. So Mr Dr kir Conda, I'm so happy
Speaker 1: to have you, Thanks for having me. Absolutely. We talked
Speaker 1: a little bit earlier about navigating in dating in your thirties,
Speaker 1: but something that really struck me when watching your videos
Speaker 1: was not so much the conversation around past traumas and
Speaker 1: how they affect your current relationships. Although we can certainly
Speaker 1: talk about that as well. But I have referred a
Speaker 1: few of your videos too, just a boatload of my friends,
Speaker 1: because you talk about when you're approaching difficult times in
Speaker 1: a relationship, how to navigate that from a place of
Speaker 1: or approach it from a place of the baseline emotions
Speaker 1: of either fear or hurt, which is a very vulnerable
Speaker 1: and uncomfortable thing to do. And I just want to
Speaker 1: kind of pick your brain a little bit today and
Speaker 1: ask why approaching conflicts in relationship from those baselines of
Speaker 1: either hurt or anger is so important to having a
Speaker 1: much better outcome and conflicts arise in a relationship. Sure, well,
Speaker 1: the first thing I'll say is that no one is
Speaker 1: very good at this. I've never known anyone, including myself,
Speaker 1: who even when they study it for twenty five years
Speaker 1: and preach it all day long, such as myself. I
Speaker 1: probably get it right, I don't know of the time,
Speaker 1: and good then I have a little grace in my failures.
Speaker 1: It's just one of those things. It's an instinct, of course,
Speaker 1: when we're afraid, and when we're hurt, we're perhaps flooded,
Speaker 1: we're confused, we're protecting ourselves. It affects the way we
Speaker 1: think are are the way we perceive things, and so
Speaker 1: I just want to say that up front. But the
Speaker 1: important thing that I think is I think rather intuitive
Speaker 1: when I put it this way to people, which is
Speaker 1: that we all evolved to connect with other people close
Speaker 1: to us. We have tremendous needs for it. Hatchment. All
Speaker 1: you have to do is look at other primates and
Speaker 1: see their behavior during the day at the zoo or
Speaker 1: on you know, public television or documentary. David Edinburgh, This
Speaker 1: is this sort of thing. There's a tremendous amount of
Speaker 1: togetherness that primates will exhibit, a soothing, grooming communication, helping
Speaker 1: each other out. Um literally just being next to each
Speaker 1: other and we're the same kind of makes total sense
Speaker 1: when you think about our behavior and our needs and
Speaker 1: how important relationships are to us, particularly romantic relationships, that
Speaker 1: without those attachments and those attachment needs being met, then
Speaker 1: we have feelings and the feelings motivate us. And I
Speaker 1: feel like that's another important point that it again makes
Speaker 1: a lot of intuitive sense when I explain it this
Speaker 1: way to me anyway, which is that when we feel pain,
Speaker 1: you know, you put your hand on a hot plate
Speaker 1: and you feel pain, it's an emotion, it's hurt, and
Speaker 1: you pull your hand away from the hot plate because
Speaker 1: the feeling motivates you to do something. If you didn't
Speaker 1: have an emotion, you just let your hand burn in
Speaker 1: the same In the same way that when you're trying
Speaker 1: to get your your attachment needs met, or you're in
Speaker 1: a romantic or you're dating, say six months in and
Speaker 1: the person doesn't text you back right away, it hurts
Speaker 1: your feelings. You feel hurt, and that's a motivation. It
Speaker 1: motivates you to do something. It's a natural response. The
Speaker 1: emotion is alerting you to the possibility that maybe this
Speaker 1: person is moving away from you, and maybe this person
Speaker 1: is finding someone else to be with, or maybe this
Speaker 1: person is displeased with you in some way, and and
Speaker 1: start going into the what ifs. Well that that's the
Speaker 1: result of the emotion. The emotion is the beginning of it.
Speaker 1: In the same way that pain from the hot plate.
Speaker 1: The emotion is is pain. It's a pain response and
Speaker 1: a worry response of anxiety and a pain response. Then,
Speaker 1: because we're advanced creatures, so to speak, we there's pros
Speaker 1: and cons of that. We end up trying to uh
Speaker 1: figure out what to do with that emotion, and because
Speaker 1: we have so much societal pressure is on us to
Speaker 1: seem quote unquote strong and above our sort of primary emotions,
Speaker 1: we will either try to suppress that emotion or we
Speaker 1: will transform it into anger. That's usually the two different pathways.
Speaker 1: While either to get angry and say you are a
Speaker 1: neglectful person for not texting me back, or where were
Speaker 1: you today when you didn't text me back, which is
Speaker 1: a transformation of the original pain in the anger which
Speaker 1: is not an accurate communication of how you felt about it,
Speaker 1: or suppression I'm being too needy. Uh, there's something wrong
Speaker 1: with me. You know. If I do be too pushy,
Speaker 1: he's going to push me away or something like that.
Speaker 1: Instead of just saying so you know, I don't know
Speaker 1: if this is my fault to your fault. Maybe it's
Speaker 1: my fault. But when I text you today and you
Speaker 1: didn't get back to me, I'm sure you're busy, and
Speaker 1: I'm sure you know it's not a big deal, but
Speaker 1: I just want to let you know that it really
Speaker 1: it's sort of hurt. On a scale from one to ten,
Speaker 1: it was like a three. It wasn't that much hurt,
Speaker 1: but it was a little bit of hurt, and instead
Speaker 1: of suppressing that or transforming that into anger or starting
Speaker 1: to have a lot of thoughts about like, what's going
Speaker 1: on with him? Is he cheating on me? Um, I
Speaker 1: just thought I'd just tell you that it's sort of hurt.
Speaker 1: Then gives the other person to rise the occasion and
Speaker 1: now they can see, oh, they're not accusing me of anything,
Speaker 1: they're not pulling away, They're giving me a chance to
Speaker 1: rectify the situation. And you'd just be like, oh, one, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not really into texting during the day too.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that you were hurt by that. I
Speaker 1: don't want you to be hurt by that. So maybe
Speaker 1: I'll adjust my texting you know, procedure policy such that
Speaker 1: I won't hurt you, or or maybe if you text
Speaker 1: me around this time, I'll get back to you. People care,
Speaker 1: you know, they want to help. It's an instinct that
Speaker 1: we all have when when someone trips on the sidewalk
Speaker 1: and they're genuinely hurt. You know, humans run to that
Speaker 1: aid or at least internally, you just oh, you cringe,
Speaker 1: and you want to help that person, particularly people that
Speaker 1: are close to us, and so if we can tell
Speaker 1: people those primary emotions, it gives the other person a
Speaker 1: chance to actually meet our needs. Do you think that?
Speaker 1: And I mean, I just can't tell you enough how
Speaker 1: many people I've sent this conversation and videos of yours too,
Speaker 1: because it hit me so close to and resonated with
Speaker 1: me of how I've dealt with with relationships in the past. Um,
Speaker 1: because I've come out of abusive relationships before, I feel
Speaker 1: like I often go into that submissive where I don't
Speaker 1: tell people how I feel right away. I unfortunately just
Speaker 1: kind of let it linger and then becomes like my
Speaker 1: own resentments that they're probably not even aware of or
Speaker 1: how to change. But when you go into a conflict
Speaker 1: in a relationship and you talk from a place of
Speaker 1: this hurt me or this I'm angry and here's why,
Speaker 1: do you find that it also helps the other person
Speaker 1: not be defensive so that the conversation doesn't escalate. We've
Speaker 1: all had, right, We've all had arguments where you're like,
Speaker 1: what are we even arguing about? And I think a
Speaker 1: lot of that comes from when you approach things with anger,
Speaker 1: or like myself, sometimes build a little bit of resentment
Speaker 1: because you're not voicing you those emotions that it puts
Speaker 1: them on the defense. So putting immediately those emotions of
Speaker 1: I'm hurt and I'm going to take ownership over that.
Speaker 1: But here's why I'm hurt and how you could maybe
Speaker 1: do something to make me feel better, it takes away
Speaker 1: the need for things to escalate. Do you find that yes? Uh,
Speaker 1: it's nuanced though, because even when you're doing things perfectly,
Speaker 1: and as a therapist I help a lot of people
Speaker 1: do this, both in couples therapy and into chemotherapy, and
Speaker 1: even when you do everything perfect, the person receives so,
Speaker 1: you know, going back to our example, the woman says, Hey,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not blaming you. It's not your faults.
Speaker 1: I have traumas in my past, so you know, if
Speaker 1: you could really help me out by sort of validating
Speaker 1: my feelings, you're just understanding. You don't have to just
Speaker 1: your behavior. But I just want you to know that
Speaker 1: when I texted you today and you didn't get back
Speaker 1: to me right of way, it threw me into a
Speaker 1: panic and it kind of hurts my feelings. And it's
Speaker 1: not your fault. It's it's it's totally on me. I
Speaker 1: own those feelings. Um, So you could, you could do
Speaker 1: it that way, and given his traumas he could, he
Speaker 1: could become defensive regardless because he has been accused of
Speaker 1: being withdrawing or neglecting or a bad boyfriend before, and
Speaker 1: he just projects that onto the situation even though it's
Speaker 1: not really applicable. And so this is that's why a
Speaker 1: couples therapy is so important, because when I'm talking to
Speaker 1: individual clients about what to do, sometimes they do everything perfect,
Speaker 1: they go home and the other person it doesn't know
Speaker 1: what's happening because it seems so weird. You know, It's like, well,
Speaker 1: surely behind that veil of niceness is accusation and anger
Speaker 1: and hostility. So so that's why a couple of therapy
Speaker 1: is so important because then I can actually go to
Speaker 1: the guy and say like, okay, wait a second, you
Speaker 1: seem to be reacting against something, you know, what's going on?
Speaker 1: What did you hear her say? And He'll be like, well,
Speaker 1: she's angry at me. And I'll be like, well, let's
Speaker 1: go back, let's listen to what she said, and so
Speaker 1: that you can help him to really here. And you know,
Speaker 1: it's a brand new way of thinking of it. You know,
Speaker 1: when I discovered it years ago. It just completely transformed
Speaker 1: my life. And I guess I dipped into it randomly
Speaker 1: at times, But once I understood attachment, and I really
Speaker 1: appreciated just how attachment oriented we are and how really,
Speaker 1: on a minute by minute basis, we're having these little
Speaker 1: hurts and little fears, and uh, it really just helped
Speaker 1: me to understand that it's so important to do this.
Speaker 1: But it makes sense that most people just don't know
Speaker 1: what's happening, and it takes some education and some experience
Speaker 1: and trial and error to to really figure it out. Well,
Speaker 1: especially like you said earlier, we're kind of trained in
Speaker 1: our society to think, you know, buck up, get over it,
Speaker 1: you know, let it go, move on when you do
Speaker 1: go through those hurts, So it's hard to then, ah,
Speaker 1: try to separate what you're being taught is, you know,
Speaker 1: get over it, move on, and hey, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to get over this experience. It hurts me deeply. But
Speaker 1: how to make sure that it's not something that turns
Speaker 1: into a problem in future relationship when the part you
Speaker 1: maybe have a really great partner and they're not the
Speaker 1: one that is causing that pain, it's from somewhere else.
Speaker 1: So that has been a real battle for me of
Speaker 1: um as I go into relationships trying to to not
Speaker 1: be so reactive to something that they didn't that they
Speaker 1: didn't know that they did. Yeah, and I want to
Speaker 1: rephrase that the reactiveness is normal. We can't change our
Speaker 1: primary emotions of fear and hurt. We can't change that.
Speaker 1: It's just going to happen the same way I can't
Speaker 1: change how much it hurts when I have my hand
Speaker 1: on a hot plate. It's gonna hurt, and that that
Speaker 1: reactivity is going to be there. It's what we do
Speaker 1: with it, and it's easier said than done. In my
Speaker 1: work with people, sometimes often we bump up against relational
Speaker 1: traumas that they have in their past that cause as
Speaker 1: them to be in the moment at the very least
Speaker 1: very distrustful of the other person that the other person
Speaker 1: actually does care, because you have to trust the other person.
Speaker 1: If you're gonna say you hurt my feelings, you have
Speaker 1: to trust that the other person is to be that vulnerable.
Speaker 1: You have to be like almost sure that that person
Speaker 1: is going to respond well, that they're going to hold
Speaker 1: your feelings, that they're going to hear you, they're going
Speaker 1: to care. They're going to communicate their care. They're not
Speaker 1: gonna reject you because it it's a double hurt to
Speaker 1: be vulnerable about something you heard about and then to
Speaker 1: be rejected on that level. Well, we have on the
Speaker 1: line Miss Becky, who is a producer from this show,
Speaker 1: and I don't know her story, but we want to
Speaker 1: chat with her a little bit and maybe you can
Speaker 1: give some insight onto what she is navigating in her
Speaker 1: current dating situation. Okay, before we go into this, I
Speaker 1: just want I didn't know we were going to do this,
Speaker 1: but I can't provide any professional advice over podcasting. So
Speaker 1: I'll be wording it. You can ask whatever you want to,
Speaker 1: that's totally fine, but I'll be wording it in a
Speaker 1: way that will be ethical to my license. We're not
Speaker 1: anticipating that you're giving a therapy session, but maybe we'll
Speaker 1: just hear her side and maybe I can relate to it.
Speaker 1: She's touched on, maybe she's gone through similar experiences me
Speaker 1: and you can give us some pointers in how to
Speaker 1: navigate it. So um Dean and Jared of the host
Speaker 1: of the Help by Second Dating podcast, They recently have
Speaker 1: me on for an interview and long story short, there
Speaker 1: was a guy that heard my interview. UM. He reached
Speaker 1: out to me and we have been talking for coming
Speaker 1: up on two months now. And he lives in Michigan.
Speaker 1: I live in Los Angeles and UH he actually flew
Speaker 1: in to meet me this weekend. UM, and he is
Speaker 1: an incredible man like he is definitely different than anyone
Speaker 1: I've ever dated. I've come out of very abusive, in
Speaker 1: toxic relationships UM, and I've just overall have never really
Speaker 1: had a good relationship with men UM from just several
Speaker 1: traumas UM throughout my life and I found myself dating
Speaker 1: the same kinds of guys, the same type prior to
Speaker 1: this guy, and UM, he has just been I've been
Speaker 1: very We've been very vulnerable with each other, which has
Speaker 1: been very difficult for me, UM and I I'm really
Speaker 1: struggling to be present in UM allowing him to pursue
Speaker 1: me and be there for me and UH this weekend
Speaker 1: while he was here, there were a lot of actual
Speaker 1: like tears, like really difficult moments UM where I've just
Speaker 1: been feeling like UM unworthy and unqualified of love and
Speaker 1: accepting UM. Someone who is so patient, is so kind
Speaker 1: and is so open to listening um to everything that
Speaker 1: I've been through and just wanting to be there. How
Speaker 1: have you Dr Kirk like, how do you encourage um,
Speaker 1: you know, your clients and people that you talked to
Speaker 1: to not come up from a place of fear again
Speaker 1: in a place of just pain and trauma and lead
Speaker 1: with love and be present in those moments. That's a
Speaker 1: great question, um, and I applaud you for your vulnerability.
Speaker 1: You're modeling for a lot of listeners how to acknowledge
Speaker 1: your own issues. Everyone has issues at least in one shape, way,
Speaker 1: shape or form, and so you know, kudos to you
Speaker 1: for having the strength and breaking the mold of the
Speaker 1: American individualism and quote quote unquote strength. Um. So uh Again,
Speaker 1: I don't know you particularly, but the thing that I
Speaker 1: think about is what I sometimes will talk about a
Speaker 1: schema therapy, and this the research looked into how people
Speaker 1: see the world in ways that get in their way
Speaker 1: and how the way they see the world was developed
Speaker 1: when they were young, and they are eighteen different schemas
Speaker 1: or ways of seeing the world that are unhelped full
Speaker 1: to their needs. And one of the ways that are
Speaker 1: developed early in life is this schema of I'm not
Speaker 1: worthy of love that was developed because one was treated
Speaker 1: that way at a young age one, two, three, four
Speaker 1: or five years old. You're treated in a way that
Speaker 1: indicates that you're not worthy of love, you're not getting
Speaker 1: enough love or an attention. And it might even be
Speaker 1: explicitly told to some kids, the reason why I'm not
Speaker 1: hanging out with you is because you're a bad girl
Speaker 1: or something. Whatever. The messages it could be explicit or implicit,
Speaker 1: and oftentimes kids will just come to these conclusions in
Speaker 1: a very understandable but tragic way, and then we just
Speaker 1: retain that way of seeing the world as we get older.
Speaker 1: And it is an assumption that is deep. It's not
Speaker 1: just a cognitive idea. As you talk about it, you
Speaker 1: reflect on that assumption and you seem to be questioning it.
Speaker 1: You seem to be like, I don't know why I
Speaker 1: I see it this way, but it's deep in my
Speaker 1: in my soul, and the idea is I always sort
Speaker 1: of try to there's a there's literally four plus theories
Speaker 1: of psychotherapy, and so I try to melt all of
Speaker 1: it down to two ideas, which is one awareness and
Speaker 1: to healing. So one is awareness and just building that
Speaker 1: awareness for people that suffer from this schema is just
Speaker 1: becoming aware of the whole thing. Becoming aware of the schema,
Speaker 1: becoming aware of when you're in this situation and you're
Speaker 1: receiving love and you're starting to have both positive feelings
Speaker 1: and negative feelings, you look at your feelings and you
Speaker 1: try to figure out, like, which which is rational here?
Speaker 1: You know, similar to you really want to go bungee
Speaker 1: jumping and you get to the edge of before you jump,
Speaker 1: and you have a tremendous amount of fear. Well, that's
Speaker 1: kind of the point, right, and your body doesn't want
Speaker 1: to jump off, but your mind is saying everything is fine,
Speaker 1: you know, everything's gonna be okay, but your body is
Speaker 1: like no, no, no. So so evaluating the emotion. Whereas
Speaker 1: if you didn't have a bungee cord tied to your
Speaker 1: feet and you were standing on the edge of a cliff,
Speaker 1: the fear would be rational. And so you have to
Speaker 1: have the ability to look at your feelings and say
Speaker 1: which is rational here and which is helpful? And that
Speaker 1: takes a lot of time, you know, it takes a
Speaker 1: lot of investigation. But that can only goes so far
Speaker 1: because our emotions can be really overwhelming at times. Uh.
Speaker 1: Then the next part is more the long term goal,
Speaker 1: which is to heal from our relational traumas. So for
Speaker 1: people with schemas that indicate that they're not worthy of love,
Speaker 1: they have to experience love and attachment in a way
Speaker 1: that indicates that they are worthy of love and that
Speaker 1: people can be trusted, and that can only be done
Speaker 1: through experiences. You have to do it over and over again.
Speaker 1: The analogy to the bunch you jumping, I guess is
Speaker 1: that the only way to be able to jump a
Speaker 1: bungee jump without any fear is to do it. You know,
Speaker 1: dozens of times just me thinking about bungee jumping makes
Speaker 1: my hands wet by the way. Um, so I would
Speaker 1: need to bungee jump I don't know how many times
Speaker 1: before I would just be able to do it and
Speaker 1: not have fear as I did it. So so my
Speaker 1: cognitive understanding of the rationality of the fear only goes
Speaker 1: so far. Um, I just have to through repetition, have
Speaker 1: to get my body to habituate to the scary situations
Speaker 1: such that my body learns this is okay, you can
Speaker 1: trust it, And so you need to People need to
Speaker 1: engineer as many secure relationships as they can, and if
Speaker 1: it's it's hard when you have these worries that are
Speaker 1: alerting you of just like danger, danger, danger. And this
Speaker 1: is where therapy comes in therapy is you know, therapists know,
Speaker 1: or they should know what to do in these situations
Speaker 1: such that the therapist client relationship becomes a very secure
Speaker 1: relationship for that person. And then as the person experiences
Speaker 1: that relationships and says, oh, I guess I can trust
Speaker 1: other people then and that's a much more safe environment,
Speaker 1: right because it's a professional and they know what they're
Speaker 1: doing and it's not very threatening to the therapist to
Speaker 1: engage in a relationship with a client. And then that
Speaker 1: learning in your body can be translated to relationships outside
Speaker 1: of the therapy office. I don't know if that answers
Speaker 1: your question. It does absolutely, And I think that I
Speaker 1: m am struggling being the gatekeeper of my mind and
Speaker 1: be what it start flooding in and UM feeling very
Speaker 1: out of control. Are there any like UM coping mechanisms
Speaker 1: that you you share with clients to kind of reel
Speaker 1: it back in and UM feel well. Getting back to
Speaker 1: what I was talking about before is to value your
Speaker 1: emotional reactivity. It's there's this notion of whenever I hear
Speaker 1: the word coping, I don't know what you're exactly asking,
Speaker 1: but a lot of people mean, how do I get
Speaker 1: rid of these feelings? And that's not possible. So and
Speaker 1: it's a notion that is given to us by society
Speaker 1: that is possible, that you know, strong mature people have
Speaker 1: total control over their emotions. They can get rid of them.
Speaker 1: And it's like, no, you can't. In the same way
Speaker 1: I can't get rid of my pain as I'm holding
Speaker 1: my hand on a hot plate, I can't. I'm I'm
Speaker 1: an animal. I'm not a robot. I can't delete the file.
Speaker 1: It just happens. I have a physical emotional reactivity. And
Speaker 1: to deny that is like extremely self destructive. And so
Speaker 1: many people do that, particularly men, by the way, but anyway,
Speaker 1: so so because we're taught to um it's the only
Speaker 1: way to be a man in a lot of ways,
Speaker 1: but or just anger anyway. The point is is that
Speaker 1: value your emotions. So you're having fear, you have tremendous fear. Okay,
Speaker 1: now to transform that into I'm gonna push him away
Speaker 1: or thus he is not trustworthy, or I need to run,
Speaker 1: or I need to drink or I need to smoke
Speaker 1: pot l right, whatever it is, that's that's the attempt
Speaker 1: to get rid of the emotion, to just live in
Speaker 1: the emotion of just like, by the way, right now,
Speaker 1: I am terrified. I don't know what to do with that.
Speaker 1: But I am. I am utterly mortified and terrified what's
Speaker 1: happening right now? And I don't know what to do
Speaker 1: with it? Can can can people listen to me? Can
Speaker 1: you listen to me? Can? Can? Can everyone help me
Speaker 1: with my fear? And then you know, people come to
Speaker 1: you and help you and listen to you, and then
Speaker 1: you're still a raid. But it doesn't it doesn't have
Speaker 1: to be transformed into some other thing like anger or
Speaker 1: pushing away or there's something wrong with me. Um. These
Speaker 1: kinds of things are results of shame upon our own fears.
Speaker 1: It's you're I don't know, it sounded like you just
Speaker 1: started dating this guy. You should be afraid. Who knows
Speaker 1: who what this guy is? I mean that, you know,
Speaker 1: people often say this like how do I trust you
Speaker 1: know to date? And I'm like, why would you trust
Speaker 1: people you're dating? You don't know? This person could be
Speaker 1: the next serial killer. You really just don't know. I'm
Speaker 1: not saying be paranoid and assume, but just it. It
Speaker 1: lives in that fear. It's okay and it's normal. It
Speaker 1: indicates that your body knows that you're in a dangerous
Speaker 1: situation because you are, and that's and just be okay
Speaker 1: with that. In the same way that you're standing on
Speaker 1: the edge with you know, bungee cord tight and you're
Speaker 1: just like, I'm afraid. It's okay. You know, if you
Speaker 1: weren't afraid, there'd be something wrong with you. So get support,
Speaker 1: talk about it, tell the partner, have them do what
Speaker 1: they can. It's not going to take it away. That's
Speaker 1: all right, It's okay to be afraid. I think, UM,
Speaker 1: my takeaway from what you said was these metaphors of
Speaker 1: bungee jumping in the hot plates are so relatable because
Speaker 1: these are things that you just learned with time, and
Speaker 1: Becky and I are coming from totally different standpoints of
Speaker 1: me being thirty three, she's twenty three, and I just
Speaker 1: wanted to validate that it is amazing that you're being
Speaker 1: so vulnerable, but also that um from someone that's a
Speaker 1: little bit older and has gone through similar experiences as
Speaker 1: you that it really it's really amazing when you open
Speaker 1: yourself up to the opportunity of letting people show up
Speaker 1: for you. And like he said, with that bungee chord,
Speaker 1: it's a little less scary than the next time you
Speaker 1: jump when you've had people that might not have been
Speaker 1: your for a partner but just choose to show up
Speaker 1: when when they can, and it just takes time. And
Speaker 1: I oh, I'm just so happy that you came on today,
Speaker 1: Mr Doctor Kirkonda, Psychology and Seattle. I hope everyone watches
Speaker 1: your videos. I hope you continue to cover this season
Speaker 1: of The Bad Strett because I'll give you a little
Speaker 1: insider scoop. It's going to be a good one. You
Speaker 1: might have a lot to unpack for everyone. But I
Speaker 1: just thank you for taking the time out of your
Speaker 1: day to help us navigate our dating woes and give
Speaker 1: us some perspective on things. All right, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. All Right, Well, we talked with
Speaker 1: Dr Kirkanda, and I think he gave us some so
Speaker 1: some pretty heavy things to think about. Um. What I
Speaker 1: really love from his podcast is how much he talks
Speaker 1: about how important therapy is and I've to my past relationships,
Speaker 1: struggles that I've gone through, and today you're talking about
Speaker 1: a current struggle you're going through that is again not
Speaker 1: reflective of the person that you're with, he sounds amazing,
Speaker 1: but struggles that you carry on from previous interactions, whether
Speaker 1: romantic or not. And I just am so thankful he
Speaker 1: was on. But also I think we can all take
Speaker 1: away from his talking that we don't have to have
Speaker 1: this idea we have to get over things, quote unquote,
Speaker 1: that it's okay to be vulnerable. It's okay to say,
Speaker 1: all right, I am not dealing with this. Well, whether
Speaker 1: you can't have a conversation like he talked about from
Speaker 1: the baseline of these are my emotions and you're in
Speaker 1: a position where you don't feel that you're safe enough
Speaker 1: to be vulnerable with whoever you're talking to. UM and
Speaker 1: come from a place of just the pure emotion and
Speaker 1: taking ownership of that is so incredibly difficult, But I
Speaker 1: think it's something that we all could benefit from UM
Speaker 1: instead of just being reacting, taking a pause and trying
Speaker 1: to figure out where that reaction is coming from. So
Speaker 1: I'm so thankful he came on. I think it ties
Speaker 1: back into even having those questions answered about how to
Speaker 1: navigate talking about deal breakers and kids and all these
Speaker 1: things and divorce and dating in your thirties and these
Speaker 1: conversations that what I took away from his conversation was
Speaker 1: that we need to just allow ourselves to be vulnerable enough,
Speaker 1: and if that person doesn't respond to the questions and
Speaker 1: the way we want, that that's okay. At least you
Speaker 1: got the information that you needed and you allowed yourself
Speaker 1: to be vulnerable, and like you said, the next time
Speaker 1: you jump off the bungee cord, it will be a
Speaker 1: little bit easier. And I don't know, I'm just I'm
Speaker 1: taking a lot away um from our conversation today and
Speaker 1: maybe how to interact in future relationships, how to approach
Speaker 1: subjects that aren't easy. And I think the biggest takeaway
Speaker 1: is that it is just okay to be vulnerable and
Speaker 1: sit in your emotions and allow someone to show up
Speaker 1: for you. Thank you so much for coming on this week.
Speaker 1: At least, I think this was so informational. It gave
Speaker 1: me so much perspective, um, someone who um from someone
Speaker 1: who has gone through things that I've gone through, and
Speaker 1: I know that listeners will be able to relate to
Speaker 1: a lot of things that were discussed, and um and
Speaker 1: gaining some wisdom from this and maybe um realize what
Speaker 1: a girl really wants and me from this podcast, I
Speaker 1: certainly hope. So I cannot thank Dean and Jared enough
Speaker 1: for letting me take over and for you allowing me
Speaker 1: to kind of share and give my insight on your
Speaker 1: story but also open up on my own story. And
Speaker 1: I mean, hell, we all suck at dating, right, but
Speaker 1: at least we now know how to maybe approach it
Speaker 1: with a little patience and grace with ourselves.