WEBVTT - U.S. Insurrection Clearing the Way for Coups 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.920 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:05.760 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanobek. We're here every day bringing 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:08.280 you the latest news from the world's of business and finance, 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:12.120 plus technology, politics, economics, all harnessing the power of Business 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:15.600 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:18.080 analyst in more than one and twenty countries. You can 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:21.720 download Bloomberg Business Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com. 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:23.600 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:26.319 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio, or watch us on 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:31.440 YouTube search Bloomberg Global News Listen. We've already talked about 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:33.400 it a lot, and rightfully so, because this too is 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:36.320 among our most right on the Bloomberg. It's all over 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:39.559 social media as well, and we're talking about bitcoin. We're 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:42.560 talking about Elon Musk, and Tim we're talking about Tesla. 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:46.520 It's been hovering out about ten percent higher all day today. 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:48.680 Since about seven thirty this morning, when we learned that 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:50.760 Tesla had make it at one point five billion dollar 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:53.040 investment in bitcoin and also said, hey, we're going to 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:56.720 start accepting bitcoin for Tesla's caught our attention. To right 0:00:56.760 --> 0:00:59.360 in the news room. Hey, let's get into it with 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:01.840 Bloomberg News Markets editor Joe Wise and all co host 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:03.880 of Big Amiss, Coming your Way at four thirty pm 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:07.319 Wall Street Time on Bloomberg TV. Joe is socially distanced 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:09.759 on the phone in our New York here. Hey, Joe 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:11.720 was in thought. Good to have you here. I mean, 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:14.800 it's a Bitcoin story, but it's also a testless story. 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:16.440 How do you see this? Like when you heard the 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:19.679 news this morning, I mean I wasn't really surprised. It's 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:24.440 interesting because I feel like in this market environment, Tesla 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:28.119 and Bitcoin have been like coleinked, even when they weren't 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:30.600 officially linked, if you know what I mean. It's like 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:35.039 their charts look similar, the stories look similar, something that 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:40.319 seems completely different than the sort of mainstream, sort of iconoclastic. 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:44.000 So I feel like there was something like inevitable, like 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:46.600 only a matter of time. But I'm sure like be 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:50.800 like the crossover of like Bitcoin holders and Elon fanboys 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:53.080 is a you know, it was a Venn diagram would 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:55.440 be very close to a circle, and so it almost 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:57.680 feels like perfect now that like this makes it a 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:01.080 this makes the marriage official. Well, you said something really 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:05.080 interesting on our Quick Take livestream this morning, um that 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:07.240 I hadn't thought of, but it was this idea when 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:10.720 a company starts to accept bitcoin, like Tesla announced today, 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:13.880 it's actually not that big of a deal. Why is that? 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:17.240 I think? You know, like in the end, it's like 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:20.800 when when when Tesla is telling a car for like 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:24.359 forty dollars, say, or fifty dollars as you can buy 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:27.560 this in bitcoin. All that's really happening is they're letting 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:30.519 you enter in money into a sort of like bitcoin 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:35.200 transaction processor then converted into dollars or vice versa, or 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:38.120 the other way around. So it's as if they're saying, okay, 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:40.920 we accepted in euros and then somewhere in the background 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:45.040 they do a conversion. I thought, really that powerful. What's 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:48.160 powerful in fury and we haven't seen this is when 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:52.840 we started to see transactions that are really denominated in bitcoin. 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:55.000 And so in other words of a company like say 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:57.600 Tesla word to say, here's our car and for the 0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:00.239 next year is going to be priced one bit coin 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:03.160 each or two bitcoin each, and then if the price 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:07.400 of bitcoin fluctuates, it's still priceding that bitcoin. And so 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:10.080 that Therefore, let's say even bigcoin were to fall in half, 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:13.120 which is very possible because if very volatile, then you 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:14.920 would still be able to buy it for one bitcoin. 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:19.839 Then you start to see a system of uh um 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:23.760 obligations and payments that are truly denominated in bitcoin as 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:26.919 it is. It's more like a dollar transaction that's converted. 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:29.520 So it's kind of cool, it's kind of fun, but 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:32.080 it doesn't really mean that the item is priced in 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:34.639 bigcoin as such. Bitcoin. Is it really then a unit 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:36.360 of account? All right, Joe, but you can and you 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:39.200 can buy other things in bitcoin. We know that. But 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:43.800 it's Elon musk and and and it's Tesla doing it. 0:03:43.280 --> 0:03:45.600 Because is there something we should read into it in 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:47.840 terms of the company that's doing it in the brand? 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:50.320 I mean, I would say this, Why would think if 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:52.600 you look at a lot of like bitcoin holders, they're 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:55.000 very reluctant to spend their bitcoin because they all think 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:58.400 it's gonna go way higher in the future, and so 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:01.240 no matter what it is, even if it's available, they're 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:03.240 probably not going to do it. On the other hand, 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:06.280 they might make an exception for Tesla because Elen is cool, 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:08.640 because he's made a point of putting some of the 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:13.920 company's treasury into um into bitcoin itself, then that could 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:15.640 be the kind of thing where it's like I could 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:19.080 imagine some small subset of the bitcoin holding population that's like, 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:20.840 you know what, I always said, I wasn't going to 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:23.800 spend my bitcoin until you know, bitcoin was the new 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:26.720 global unit of account, or until bitcoin is worth more 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:29.800 than gold. But for Elan in this case, because I 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:32.160 get to be part of the story, because I get 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:34.640 to be part of validating someone who's, you know, the 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:37.400 richest guy in the world, maybe I'll buy a bitcoin 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:40.599 with my Tesla and I suspect some people will do that, 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:43.160 even if they sort of don't really feel like they 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:46.039 should be spending it. A billion and a half dollars. 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:49.680 It's it's not actually that much money for Tesla or 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:52.200 of course Elon Musk either. What do you make of 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:54.960 the figure that they announced this morning. I mean, that's 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:57.120 the thing, it's not like even that much really, so like, 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:00.760 given Tesla's market cab, given that Elan the richest person 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:03.200 in the world, UM, it's not that much. On the 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:05.760 other hand, you know, it's like as big as Big 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:07.720 Point is, and I think like the total value is 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:10.200 something like three quarters of a trillion dollars. You know, 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:14.200 you still can't make that big purchases without making waves. So, 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:16.359 you know, I think it's like, I think what I 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:18.720 said this morning is like, I think Ellen is having 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:21.000 a lot of fun right now, and I think when 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:24.680 it's not exactly so we're in the stage. We're part 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:26.920 of having fun. If you're like a rich billionaire is 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:29.520 having fun with like cryptocurrencies, and this is his way 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:32.719 of doing it. It's not a huge risk for Tesla's 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:35.480 balance sheet one way or another, but it's kind of 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:38.039 like him being part of the story. And Tesla has 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:41.880 got cars, and he's got rockets, and now he's got cryptocurrencies, 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:43.520 and it's all part of the it's all part of 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:45.600 the fun. Having said that, you know, and we've been 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:48.039 talking with you about bitcoin for a while and several years, 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:50.080 I feel like at this point, but is there something 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:53.359 different about kind of the conversation and the stories that 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:55.719 we're seeing surrounding bitcoin at this point, does it feel 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:58.160 like it's becoming a little bit more legit? I think so. 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:02.360 I think so. I mean, look, you definitely have institutions 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:04.960 that are willing to put at least some small allocation 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:07.599 of their wealth into it. We think a lot of 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:11.840 the story of was this idea of like bitcoin emerging 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:14.880 as a as a store of wealth. And that's sort 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:17.680 of like the new meme, which is that it's a 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:21.200 savings vehicle, kind of like gold is. It's like, yes, 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:23.600 it's not really great for spending, but just like goal 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.360 is not great for spending. But bitcoin kind of is 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:29.400 a sort of, uh, you know, a save sort of 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:32.280 wealth type of vehicle. So then naturally you have a 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:36.560 few institutions at ultimately very small levels like dipping their 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:40.320 toe in from that perspective, Alright, good stuff, always good, 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:41.960 Thank you so much. And you've got a busy day, 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:44.960 busy afternoon. Joe Wizenthal markets that are at Bloomberg News, 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:46.600 co host of which miss come in your way at 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:48.680 four thirty pm Wall Street Tom on Bloomberg TV. So 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:51.240 be sure to check him out. He's always got smartcast, 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:54.000 smart conversations. Uh, and you've got to I always read 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:55.839 this Five things to read that You've got to know. 0:06:56.000 --> 0:06:58.400 Who does the morning? I know, right, it's just like bam, 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:01.280 bam bam everything I need to know. This is Bloomberg 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:05.000 Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick takes Tim 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:08.560 Stinovich from Bloomberg Radio. So a bunch of things going 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:10.640 on when it comes to the virus and vaccine too. 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:15.760 Mentioned about Astra Zenica South Africa temporary halting the rollout there. 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:18.400 New York City indoor dining is going to resume on Friday, 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:21.120 two days earlier than plan. And we are seeing tim 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:24.560 coronavirus infections continuing to slow across the globe. India though, 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:27.760 um some good news reporting fewer than a hundred fatalities 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:28.960 for the third day in a row, and I know 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:31.840 they've been struggling. Yeah, and even more locally here in 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:35.800 New York. Indoor dining is going to resume Friday at capacity. 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:38.600 In middle schools are going to reopen on February, which 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:40.240 is really really good. I know a lot of parents 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:42.600 have been hoping kids could get back to school. Global 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:46.000 cases though exceeding a hundred and six million deaths, passing 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:48.560 two point three million, more than a hundred and thirty 0:07:48.560 --> 0:07:50.679 one million shots that have been given around the globe. 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:53.360 Let's get back to UH. A guest, someone who has 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:56.000 come to us several times throughout the pandemic is dr 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:58.920 Iman Abuse ag is CEO and co founder at Incredible 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:02.080 Health h and her company, Just a Reminder, connects hospitals 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:04.280 with nurses and other healthcare worker. She is with us 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:08.080 once again on the phone in San Francisco. Doctor abuzaid, 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:11.320 nice to have you back here on Bloomberg. How are you? 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:13.680 And tell me what you're seeing from day to day 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:17.600 when it comes to the virus and cases and hospitalizations, 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:19.880 and then what you're seeing in terms of the vaccine rollout. 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:23.480 Have have most of the folks UM that you've seen 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:28.200 that our healthcare workers gotten vaccinated? Yeah? I'm doing well. 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:31.960 Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. So what 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:35.120 we're seeing in our in our data and with you know, 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:37.920 interacting with our customers. Uh. You know, over three hundred 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:40.440 hospitals and health systems use our software to hire nurses 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:44.480 and permanent roles UM across the country. And what we 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:46.960 seem is actually the majority over seventy you know, over 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:50.720 seventy of the nurses in these permanent roles have already 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:54.440 been vaccinated, which is great news. But the real question 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:57.160 is like, how come I haven't been yet? Right, Because 0:08:57.160 --> 0:08:59.400 that's what we really need to get to UM, and 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:03.080 it's me two factors. One is a supply shortage that 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:07.160 your team has already had has just mentioned. The second factor, 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:10.800 which is a little bit more um nuanced, is there 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:13.400 is still some fear among healthcare workers about taking the 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:16.480 vaccine UM. A lot of that has to has to 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:19.080 do with you know, quite a quite a lot of 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:22.439 distrust has built up between healthcare workers and their employers 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:24.600 and healthcare workers in the government when it comes to 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:28.680 management of the pandemic. Um there's still a subset of 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:32.840 workers that are pretty resistant to mandates and um there's 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:35.520 just some distrust out there. And so I think probably 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:37.480 the biggest factor we can do over the next few 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:42.360 weeks is explaining clearly the research behind the vaccine um, 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:44.480 just kind of just a little bit more detail on 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:47.080 it to get more healthcare workers comfortable with it so 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:51.079 we can get to be of them vaccinated. How are 0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:54.320 the nurses doing in terms of of workload? And we 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:57.360 heard so much early on in the pandemic about so 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:00.440 many of these health care workers just being over worked 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:03.240 and exhausted, and there were so many stories about that. 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:07.120 Has that eased up as as hospitals have, I don't 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:09.720 want to say, you know, gotten better, because in different 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:12.160 parts of the country. At any given moment, different hospitals 0:10:12.160 --> 0:10:18.520 are experiencing different things. But as the pandemic has worn on, Yeah, no, unfortunately, 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:23.520 that has not gotten better anything more widespread throughout the country. UM. 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:26.439 In the beginning of the pandemic, you know, March last year, 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:29.160 you know, the emphasis was really on the on the northeast. 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:32.720 But now at this point, you know, we're talking February, 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:36.680 the pandemic is widespread throughout many states, and so every 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:39.360 single hospital and help us and we work with is 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:44.600 reporting staff shortages that your staff shortages, difficulties and getting 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:47.839 enough staff um to fill these units because you know, 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:50.600 there's a high, very high patient demand that's been caused 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:53.760 by the pandemic. Uh. And then what nurses are reporting 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:55.840 is like you know, over two thirds of them are 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:59.400 reporting high anxiety, high stress related to the pandemic and 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:03.079 related to being overworked. UM. So unfortunately, and it has 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:06.199 not eased up yet. But hopefully have cases go down 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:08.560 and a number of hostilizations go down over the next 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:10.960 few months. You know, we're hopeful that things will get 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:12.840 a little bit better. Are you feeling just kind about 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:15.400 twenty five seconds left that you are you feeling like 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:20.000 maybe by summer things start to feel quote unquote more normal. UM. 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:23.400 That really that really just depends on how the you know, 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:26.959 community um reacts to the vaccine and and and how 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:30.440 quickly the vaccine rollout can be UM. Right now, there 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:33.079 is a lot of frustration from healthcare workers towards their 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:38.400 local communities who are not necessarily following guidelines, UM, you know, mandates, maths, 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:41.480 so on, and it's just putting more healthcare workers at risk. 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:44.800 So hopefully the public health messaging will get better and 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:47.520 we'll be accepted by by communities. And that's really what 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:49.160 this is going to hinge on. All right, Gon, I'll 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:51.040 leave it on that note. Hey, Emon, nice to have 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:53.480 you back with us. Dr Iman Abuse, aid CEO and 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:56.199 co founder at Incredible Health joining us on the phone 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:58.559 from San Francisco. You know, it definitely feels like we're 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:00.880 making progress and but yeah, it was really surprising for 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:03.559 me to hear that it hasn't the workload hasn't het 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:05.840 up heased up for these healthcare workers. Yeah, it's still 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:09.240 pretty tough on them. This is Bloomberg Business Week with 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:14.040 Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic from Bloomberg Radio. 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:18.959 It's a real world illustration of a venture capitalist fantasy 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:21.840 about the future of media. We're talking about the tiny 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:26.040 tech startups sub stack that's reaching existential scale in the 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:29.480 media industry. So writes Ellen Hewett. This story is really interesting. 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:31.679 I didn't know about them, You didn't know about it. 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:34.160 It's it's We're gonna let Ellen and Joel talk about it. 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:36.320 But yeah, it's mind blowing. How much some of these 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:39.520 writers make over a million dollars a year. Pretty remarkable. 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:41.920 So she writes about it for Bloomberg business Week. Let's 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:45.040 get into her story. She has startups reporter Ellen Hewett 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:46.880 on the phone in San Francisco, along a Bloomberg Business 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:49.920 Week nitor Jill Weber on the access line in Brooklyn. 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:51.880 First of all, how did I mean, how did this 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:53.520 come to your attention or how did you guys think 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:56.480 about you wanted to put this in the magazine. Well, 0:12:56.640 --> 0:12:59.920 it's been a business that has really caught a lot 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:04.160 of people, a lot of people's attention very quickly. Um 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:06.360 in part because of those numbers that you just mentioned, 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:12.000 because of the disruptive potential. Um And this is you 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:14.120 know what I like love about it? Is that it's 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:17.720 this company that's effectively invisible UM. And that was one 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:20.199 that we sort of just asked Ellen to kind of 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:22.959 take a look at, and her, she being the amazing 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:24.760 reporter that she has, like came back to us with 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:26.640 like a fully realized idea. You know, which is the 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:29.680 best part about working with people like Ellen and Bloomberg UM. 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:32.160 But the thing that you know has really struck everyone 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:34.240 with it is like, you know, this invisible company that 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:38.040 is basically taking over the software that generates a lot 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:42.080 of the emails that you probably receive UM without even 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:47.040 realizing that they're really the company underpinning at all. Uh So, 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:49.599 so Ellen like rewind the clock. What was the opportunity 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:54.680 that that sub stack saw and and set out to capture. Yeah, 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:58.520 they launched in seen and it's been actually kind of 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:01.760 a really slow growth until I would say early twenty 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:05.480 or EGN mid They did exactly what you were explaining. 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:08.760 They saw that there were some a few independent writers 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:10.880 out there, including a guy named Ben Thompson runs a 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:15.320 very popular UM tech strategy analysis blog, who were doing 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:18.320 writing UM independently, and they had an audience as people 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:21.840 who were willing to pay for access to you know 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:25.480 this writing, so really prescribing to individual rather writers rather 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:27.800 than subscribing to like the Washington Post or to Bloomberg. 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:30.840 And they thought, okay, well, if we just make the 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:36.400 tools to build these sorts of individual independent writer mini businesses, UM, 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:38.440 we can make it easier for any writer to make 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:40.800 that jump, and then we'll just take ten percent. So 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:43.120 it's really simple. And then basically what they've had to 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:46.200 do since then it's recruiting. They've been, um, in some 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:50.720 cases aggressively recruiting some of these top writers who have um, 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:53.960 you know, kind of distinct and very engaged followings and 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:56.520 trying to convince them, hey, you should leave your cushy 0:14:56.600 --> 0:15:00.320 magazine job and come right for subject for your own boss, 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:03.200 run your own newsletter, and and you can make a 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:05.120 lot of money, and in some cases from these writers 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:08.440 are doing so, although in my estimation many are also 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:11.040 not going to make that much money doing it. But 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:14.560 but it is this very interesting kind of unbundling of writers, 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:18.040 individual writers and bylines that you might follow away from 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:21.120 the legacy publications that they might work at. So Ellen, 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:25.000 as you note in your story, uh, other companies have 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:27.480 taken note of of sub stack and are trying to 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:32.920 do what sub stack is doing. Twitter bought Review recently. 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:37.120 We learned recently that Facebook is working on newsletter tools. 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:40.520 According to the New York Times, can substack survive that 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:44.360 kind of competition, Well, it's a great question. And and yes, 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:46.560 there were even rumors in the fall that Twitter was 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:48.720 maybe going to buy a sub stack, and substack co 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:50.480 founders were like, that's not true at all, and then 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:53.760 of course they bought the competitor, and and as mentioned, 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:56.760 Facebook looking into this and and look, this this isn't 0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:00.560 um this isn't that hard to wrap. Okay, Like what 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:03.920 substact is selling is the convenience. They're saying, basically, just 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:05.640 come to us, give us ten percent, but we'll make 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:07.880 it so easy for you to set this up and 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:11.520 maybe we'll send you know, some new readers your way. 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:13.720 But that that part hasn't really been realized yet. So 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:16.080 they're big concern as I imagine they think about all 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:18.160 the time, is that if you run a news letter 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:20.560 on sub stack and you have, you know, tons of 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:22.280 followers who are paying you money, at some point you're 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:24.880 gonna stop and think, like, man, there are three versions 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:26.960 of this out there that require more work to set up, 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:29.120 then I would get that last ten percent for myself 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:31.520 rather than handing it over to a platform. So they're 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:33.360 going to have to make sure that they make it 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:35.440 valuable enough that people are going to stay, especially when 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:39.320 their following is get really big. So what what's what 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:42.000 to me is most interesting about the sub stect story 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:46.800 is not only you know, suddenly it was like a 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:49.000 business model that like was in the right place at 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:50.880 the exact right time, and here we are in the 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:55.320 pandemic and and they're able to monetize and scale really quickly. 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:58.240 But also I mean it's a little bit of a 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:02.840 throwback we're talking about mel and newsletters, like is email 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:06.360 really the future of media? Because that's effectively what sub 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:10.680 spects that is. Yeah, and they have this very interesting 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:12.440 take on all this, which is there if you look 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:16.439 at the way that they present their business, they're very 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:20.359 anti engagement. They feel like the reason that we have 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:26.320 all this horrible like misinformation polarization, um like like horrible 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:29.840 strift division in our country from you know that's expanded 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:33.440 on the internet is because of the social network desire 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:35.679 for engagement that they're always looking for people who are 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:38.320 going to engage more with content and that most engaging 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:41.600 content is divisive or misleading or anything like that. And 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:45.040 they're like, look, we're kind of like the Zen Quiet alternative, 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:47.879 like you just pay for quality. No part of our 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:50.600 algorithm that's based on engagement. You're just signing up for 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:53.879 these writers. And so so I think they would probably 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:56.080 embrace this idea that they're going back to something older, 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:58.920 because in many ways they're trying to position themselves as 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:02.320 different from what has led, um, you know, what has 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:04.600 led to our our current climate. So when they said, 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:07.119 when they saw that Facebook and Twitter, we're dipping their 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:09.240 toes into the newsletter business. Um. You know, one of 0:18:09.240 --> 0:18:12.600 the co founders, Hamish Mackenzie, who we kind of profile 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:15.400 in the story, he said, you know, this is kind 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:17.520 of like Shell trying to say that they're going to 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:21.320 build um, you know, like renewable energy plants, or they're 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:23.359 just saying he's just trying to say that it's not 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:26.720 in their DNA to build something that's doesn't rely on engagement. 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:29.119 And so so my guess is they would actually kind 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:31.400 of embrace, embrace sex characterization. I don't know if people 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:34.920 are ready to have their inbox the the place where 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:37.320 they're getting all this news and in fact, um my 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:39.640 understanding is that one of the features that people really 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:42.199 want from subtext is actually a way to read your 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:44.680 sub sect newsletters not in your inbox because you're used 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:47.000 to using your inbox for like to do items and 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:48.920 annoying emails that you don't want to look at. Maybe 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:54.480 a bundle of a publication. That's what I love about. 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:56.560 Just one of the people I interviewed, there's a woman 0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:59.840 named Anne Helen Peterson, very mus writer, and she just 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:03.280 this is going to end up looking at like because 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:06.480 I want to hire him an editor and so old 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:10.719 media of them good stuff. As always, Ellen Hewittt, thank 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:13.159 you so much startups. Reporter of Bloomberg News, Del Weber, 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:15.480 or thanks to you as well, editor of Bloomberg Business 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:19.600 Week as well. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:24.000 Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovich from Bloomberg Radio 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:26.399 earlier today. Red sticky, as we like to refer to 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:29.320 at Bloomberg when an important headline crosses the Bloomberg well. 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:32.600 That happened earlier this morning when me and Moore imposed 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:35.440 martial law in its biggest cities following a third day 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:39.720 of massive street protests opposing the February one military coup. 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:42.920 So that just happened about a week ago. So we're 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:45.600 continuing to watch this situation, as does Bloomberg New Economy 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:48.960 editorial director Andy Brown, who in his weekly column writes 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:52.879 that after insurrectionists stormed the US capital, it shouldn't be 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:55.480 a surprise at the General's and me and Moore decided 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:57.800 to stage a coup. Let's bring in Andy for more, 0:19:57.840 --> 0:20:00.600 He joins us on the phone in New Hamps. You're Andy, 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:05.320 happy Monday. Nice to have you here. Make the connection, um, 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:07.960 because I know you say it's not a causal link, 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:10.600 but nonetheless, what were you thinking about when you put 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:13.159