Speaker 1: Hi guys, it's I Do Part two. I'm back your
Speaker 1: celebrity mentor Jenniferfessler and Vatentime's day is around the corner.
Speaker 1: And some of you may hate your husband's guts. If
Speaker 1: that's the case, this is the episode for you. We
Speaker 1: are bringing an incredible divorce attorney. Her name is Marilyn
Speaker 1: Chinitz and she's been working in the field for over
Speaker 1: thirty five years. You may have seen her on the
Speaker 1: Today Show on twenty twenty. She's a celebrity divorce attorney.
Speaker 1: Marilynd This is I Do Part two. But some of
Speaker 1: our listeners might be contemplating divorce, and I want to
Speaker 1: pick your brain about the gray divorce or the silver divorce.
Speaker 1: Why is a divorce attorney? Are we seeing more and
Speaker 1: more couples divorcing when they are fifty five plus?
Speaker 2: Okay, so gray divorce really unfortunate. I married forty years
Speaker 2: and when your life really kind of takes hold and
Speaker 2: it's really sad when it comes to an ending, like
Speaker 2: the rug comes out and a lot of particularly women,
Speaker 2: were not expecting it. So divorce doesn't really happen boom
Speaker 2: all at once. It kind of dies a death over
Speaker 2: a period of time and what contributes to that lack
Speaker 2: of interest. You no longer communicate. You are living parallel lives,
Speaker 2: and it doesn't just happen at once. It really does
Speaker 2: take time. And then all of a sudden, someone wakes
Speaker 2: up and they said, you know what, I've got my
Speaker 2: last trunch, I've got another twenty years. I'm miserably unhappy.
Speaker 2: I don't want to stay that way, yea, and so
Speaker 2: I want to make changes. I feel like I'm doing
Speaker 2: this forty one years. Divorce really is not necessarily an ending.
Speaker 3: I think it could be an edit. A lot mean
Speaker 3: by that.
Speaker 2: If a marriage is dead and you too are miserable,
Speaker 2: and even though you haven't planned for it, it does
Speaker 2: offer you an opportunity to kind of reconnect with yourself.
Speaker 2: There are so many things that happen that I see.
Speaker 2: I do a luncheon every year for sixty women. I've
Speaker 2: been doing it literally for probably about twenty years. And
Speaker 2: they get there at twelve, they leave at five, and
Speaker 2: last year I did it at a wonderful restaurant downtown.
Speaker 2: And the purpose of that their former clients, their current clients,
Speaker 2: their presidents of major company plastic surgeons, decorators. But It
Speaker 2: gives them an opportunity to meet each other and to
Speaker 2: see that there is really life. You can recreate yourself
Speaker 2: in so many different ways. And that's why I said
Speaker 2: I'd love to turn the table around and to interview
Speaker 2: you because I look at you and you have a
Speaker 2: career in fashion.
Speaker 3: In two you have a career in TV.
Speaker 2: So to me, I think there's nothing better than that recreating.
Speaker 2: So I'm seventy now next month, and I'm thinking about
Speaker 2: not retiring because I'm not interested in doing that. But
Speaker 2: how do I recreate myself? How do I do often
Speaker 2: different things?
Speaker 1: Well, first and most importantly, wow, seventy. On another episode,
Speaker 1: you will tell us how one does that, because seventy
Speaker 1: looks unbelievable on you, lady, that is crazy. Thank you,
Speaker 1: You're very welcome. Tell yeah, it shows.
Speaker 2: Both professionals too adorable grandchildren. Wow.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, we're going to have to bring you back
Speaker 1: so you can help us get there.
Speaker 3: Ready to come.
Speaker 2: So I think Horse is sad for a lot of
Speaker 2: reasons because.
Speaker 3: You really think that.
Speaker 2: The retirement years of the time that you're going to
Speaker 2: enjoy the wealth. Number One you created, right, You've built
Speaker 2: such a significant marital estate or a marital estate doesn't
Speaker 2: have to be significant. And you expected that you were
Speaker 2: perhaps going to retire, you were going to travel, you
Speaker 2: were going to buy something or explore things, and all
Speaker 2: of a sudden you find that you're alone and hard.
Speaker 3: That's hard.
Speaker 2: But I also think marriage takes a lot of work,
Speaker 2: and we do it in our everyday lives. We work hard.
Speaker 2: I work hard as a lawyer. You work hard in
Speaker 2: everything that you do. It does take a lot of work,
Speaker 2: and you've got to That's that time. You can't wake
Speaker 2: up all of a sudden say, oh boy, you know,
Speaker 2: all these years passed and now I'm miserable.
Speaker 3: If you were miserable.
Speaker 2: Long, then you've got to You've got to take hold
Speaker 2: of what's going on in term.
Speaker 1: I love how you're talking about that, that reinvention. It's true.
Speaker 1: I I you know my shoe company. I started a
Speaker 1: shoe company at fifty. I got on Housewives at fifty
Speaker 1: three and never felt more excited or happier about a career. Right,
Speaker 1: I'm fifty seven.
Speaker 3: Now, yay, you're gorgeous. That's you're gorgeous.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3: Just keep doing this all day.
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. Mutual admiration society. Well, but the thing is
Speaker 1: for me, well, I don't know it was. I'm married,
Speaker 1: and I had that support when I started to reinvent myself,
Speaker 1: you know, emotional, mental, and financial. But women, i think,
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong, probably have a harder time.
Speaker 1: Only a lot of times they're not in the same
Speaker 1: place career wise, right, and so they don't have Reinventing
Speaker 1: themselves may mean reinventing themselves from being a mother and
Speaker 1: a wife as opposed to you know, a lot of
Speaker 1: times that support system in place, right, But they it
Speaker 1: seems that more women are now you tell me, but
Speaker 1: are now interested in divorcing at a later age.
Speaker 2: They are for a lot of reasons. Some of them
Speaker 2: have been very, very controlling marriages and they feel like
Speaker 2: the oxygen has been taken out of them and they
Speaker 2: don't want to live like that anymore. And those are
Speaker 2: women who have lived a very good life, and there's
Speaker 2: a lot of money there, but they're always you know,
Speaker 2: doesn't always have to be that there's a lot of money.
Speaker 2: If you look at some people like Arianna Huffington, she
Speaker 2: had a terrible marriage, a terrible marriage and a terrible
Speaker 2: divorce and look how she recreated herself.
Speaker 1: Huffington Post was after that. Yeah, wow, I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: That's incredible, Diane.
Speaker 2: Von Furstenberg, Right, she was broke at age thirty and
Speaker 2: then built this empire.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: So you know, there are really sad stories where people
Speaker 2: really don't have anything. I give those women women in particular,
Speaker 2: tremendous credit. And the service that I have to bring
Speaker 2: to my clients is to give them that empowerment. Hence
Speaker 2: that luncheon.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I love that. I would love to attend that.
Speaker 1: So in terms of the finances though, what how do
Speaker 1: you guide women financially? I know it's a big question,
Speaker 1: not how do you guide them, but like what are
Speaker 1: the mistakes do you tell them to look out for
Speaker 1: financially when they're preparing for divorce.
Speaker 2: I like to do programs for women before they get divorced,
Speaker 2: and it's usually younger women who come. You know, I
Speaker 2: may have done their pre nups and then we have
Speaker 2: these really good lunch and learn and you want to
Speaker 2: be in the know. A lot of women stay totally
Speaker 2: remove from the finances. The biggest mistake you can make, right,
Speaker 2: you want to be in the know. You're asked to
Speaker 2: sign a joint tax return.
Speaker 3: Look at the tax return, make a copy of it.
Speaker 2: You'll sign it, maybe I'm sure, but you want to
Speaker 2: look at it afterwards. Hey, I didn't know. What's that
Speaker 2: taxable interest? What's that deduction? You've you've got a good
Speaker 2: group of professionals around you. You can have your own
Speaker 2: account and you can have your own financial person. And
Speaker 2: so you want to look at your credit card statements?
Speaker 2: What do I do?
Speaker 3: How much so I spend every month? What am I
Speaker 3: spending on? What are you spending on?
Speaker 2: You want to look at what assets do we have.
Speaker 2: We have this magnificent home in the Hamptons. We paid
Speaker 2: twenty million for it. But the real key question is
Speaker 2: how much is my mortgage? Is my mortgage fifteen million?
Speaker 2: So I only have equity of five million. You don't
Speaker 2: want to wake up years later and my god, that's
Speaker 2: like a time bomb, that's like, oh my god.
Speaker 3: What happened?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Don't put yourself in that position. You need to be
Speaker 2: in the know all along. And why shouldn't you Why
Speaker 2: shouldn't you be the partner that this person married. And
Speaker 2: I don't want to focus on women, but very often
Speaker 2: it is the woman sure, she's busy. If she's not working,
Speaker 2: she is working, she's raising a family.
Speaker 1: It's me, listen, I am guilty of it. I not
Speaker 1: as much anymore, and I'm on the meetings we have
Speaker 1: with our finance guide. But it's very easy for me
Speaker 1: to sort of bury my head in the hand because
Speaker 1: numbers and taxes and you know, pensions and all of
Speaker 1: that is very uninteresting to me. And shame on me
Speaker 1: because it's my life.
Speaker 3: We all do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's hard for you.
Speaker 3: I have a CD coming.
Speaker 2: My husband will call me. We have a CD. Let's
Speaker 2: do now, what do you want to do? Well, he's
Speaker 2: learned to ask me, what do you want to do?
Speaker 1: Oh? I love that.
Speaker 2: But you have to be aware of things, so that
Speaker 2: to me is one of the important things.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: I like the idea of befriending, you know, a financial person,
Speaker 2: even in a turney, I am a good friend. I
Speaker 2: like the idea of empowering yourself, of course with knowledge, right,
Speaker 2: so you don't wake up one day and that the
Speaker 2: blanket is taken off and there you are.
Speaker 1: I've had lots of friends that have gone through that.
Speaker 1: And also I'm curious about if you have a prenup,
Speaker 1: and I have many friends that also have a prenup.
Speaker 1: How do you handle that so that you are taking
Speaker 1: care of so, in other words, do you update it
Speaker 1: every few years?
Speaker 3: This is a good question, that's a really good question.
Speaker 2: Most people never look at that pre nup after its signed,
Speaker 2: and that is such a mistake. So I'll give you
Speaker 2: an example. I have a client. At the time that
Speaker 2: she signed her pre nup, the husband was worth one
Speaker 2: hundred million under the terms of the prenup. Very unfair.
Speaker 2: She got ten million as a distributed payment. By the
Speaker 2: time they're getting divorced, now he's worth seven hundred million.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, she's adding ten million. But that almost
Speaker 2: sounds unconscionable. She never looked at the prina. She never
Speaker 2: ever discussed, Hey, we're buying all these properties, how come
Speaker 2: they're in your name only? Why can't we put it
Speaker 2: in joint names.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: So now we have a situation where she's got a
Speaker 2: very unfair prena. He knows it. So we're negotiating, but
Speaker 2: not to where she.
Speaker 3: Needs to be.
Speaker 1: That what a cautionary tale. Not I mean ten million dollars.
Speaker 1: A lot of most people would think that's.
Speaker 2: Well right, and right, but a judge, and so if
Speaker 2: you go into court and you say your honor, it's unconscionable.
Speaker 1: This judge is probably doesn't have anyone.
Speaker 4: Appreciated in value because partly of her efforts, and the
Speaker 4: court's going to say, well, how about is she getting
Speaker 4: well under the agreement ten million?
Speaker 1: But that's unconscionable, of course, But he's a crime a river.
Speaker 2: Crime a river two hundred and I have four kids
Speaker 2: and my wife manages very well.
Speaker 3: Right, it's one realistic.
Speaker 1: So now you're five, ten, twenty years into the marriage,
Speaker 1: I would think that it's if the marriage is getting rocky,
Speaker 1: it's harder to convince your partner to renegotiate.
Speaker 3: But don't wait that long.
Speaker 2: So I just did a post not they're happily married,
Speaker 2: and she was smart. She pulled up the prenup and
Speaker 2: she said, look, this isn't fair. Yeah, seven properties, not
Speaker 2: one is.
Speaker 3: In my name.
Speaker 2: And he said, you know what, You're absolutely right. So
Speaker 2: now renegotiated everything. She's set now for ten lives.
Speaker 3: Wow, that's what you have to do. You have to
Speaker 3: be in the know, you have to be knowledgeable, and
Speaker 3: you have to care enough about yourself to make that inquiry.
Speaker 1: Such good advice. I hope our listeners are taking notes.
Speaker 1: So I think it's that's it's great advice. How often, though,
Speaker 1: do you see couples reconcile just out of curiosity, because
Speaker 1: like during the divorce process, Because that's what happened to me.
Speaker 1: I was separated, Yeah, for like a year and a half,
Speaker 1: and I had a boyfriend, he had a girlfriend. We
Speaker 1: were moving on. We had had infidelity in our marriage,
Speaker 1: and we just for whatever reason, it just we neither
Speaker 1: one of us wanted really to be for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: because we love each other.
Speaker 3: And I think that's a great story.
Speaker 1: I really thank you. I mean I used to I
Speaker 1: used to say, well, I do say that, like I
Speaker 1: used to cheat on my boyfriend and meet my husband
Speaker 1: right right like like and it was so ridiculous.
Speaker 3: Does it happen often?
Speaker 1: Do you find that, you know.
Speaker 3: What doesn't happen?
Speaker 1: It doesn't is very rarely.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and unfortunately because so much damage is done and
Speaker 2: there's a lack of communication. So you loved your husband,
Speaker 2: he loved you. Yeah, just a circumstance answers presented itself
Speaker 2: that drove that way. You know, it was unfortunate.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what I think, Marylyn, it was a
Speaker 1: little it was a little fortunate our marriage changed after
Speaker 1: that separation.
Speaker 3: Well, of course it's both.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And you know sometimes listen forty years of marriage,
Speaker 2: it's not like, oh my god, it's wonderful, right, It's
Speaker 2: really rocky moments.
Speaker 3: Sure, And there are moments where you're screaming and yelling.
Speaker 2: There are moments where you're you know, you're living apart
Speaker 2: from each other, whether it's a month or a week
Speaker 2: or whatever. You've got to recalibrate, You've got to restart.
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you think that that when I you say
Speaker 1: that you have to live apart? You of course have
Speaker 1: part of the sleep divorce, where couples stop sleeping in
Speaker 1: I guess the same room. Is that a good thing?
Speaker 1: I think that's like a hop, skip jump away from them.
Speaker 3: I don't think it's sad at all.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And you know, I live in Connecticut, but I could
Speaker 2: no longer do the commute back and forth. And I
Speaker 2: said to my husband, I love you, our kids not
Speaker 2: out of the house, but I can't do this anymore.
Speaker 2: Eleven o'clock at night, I'm getting off the train with
Speaker 2: my suitcase, my briefcase, not for me. So I a
Speaker 2: little studio in the city and I walk to work,
Speaker 2: he comes in, we go to the theater. That separation
Speaker 2: is great.
Speaker 3: I agree.
Speaker 1: I love that because we don't see them separate rooms.
Speaker 1: My husband is constantly traveling. I travel a lot. When
Speaker 1: he's he doesn't. He goes into the office. But even
Speaker 1: when he's home, he's in his home office. We're not
Speaker 1: on top of each other. And I think that that
Speaker 1: has been so hosting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know what it is, you feel secure
Speaker 2: in your marriage. If you feel secure in your marriage,
Speaker 2: you don't get all upset. And having that space, in
Speaker 2: my view, should be encouraged. My husband would take trips
Speaker 2: with his friends. He's born in Sweden. They do these
Speaker 2: wonderful ski trips.
Speaker 3: They used to do with a group of friends. That's great.
Speaker 2: I bike with a group of judges and matrimonial lawyers.
Speaker 2: We have gone to Italy, We've gone to Czech Republic, Germany, Austria.
Speaker 3: Wow week.
Speaker 2: And you want your partner to feel stimulated, that you
Speaker 2: want them to be happy for you, that you're happy
Speaker 2: and that you and I think that's you know, that's important.
Speaker 1: I think that well, that sort of answers that the
Speaker 1: question I have. You know, living in what is it
Speaker 1: called living apart together l A T couples or something?
Speaker 1: You live in different states like some celebrities do that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you don't think that, you think that's a bit that's a.
Speaker 2: Little although I am because I'm in New York, he's
Speaker 2: in Connecticut.
Speaker 1: But that's.
Speaker 2: You don't want to have too much distance, you know,
Speaker 2: you want to have just enough that you are independent,
Speaker 2: and you can. If you're independent in your marriage but
Speaker 2: dependent on each other's love, you're going to have a
Speaker 2: good marriage.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, yeah, I feel like that. I mean,
Speaker 1: I I The truth is I don't make the kind
Speaker 1: of money that my husband makes. The money I'm bringing
Speaker 1: in it's good, especially for someone who started a career
Speaker 1: later in life, but it doesn't pay our mortgages.
Speaker 2: It gives you independence, yes, exactly, and I'm just really
Speaker 2: appreciates and it does.
Speaker 1: Yes, he does. It's true. Tell me something that you
Speaker 1: think people assume about divorce, that's that's not true.
Speaker 2: That it's the ending that I'm never going to find somebody.
Speaker 2: This is a miserable way for me to.
Speaker 3: End my life. And I think that is the biggest
Speaker 3: bunch of crap.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 1: It really doesn't have to be right.
Speaker 2: No, And I say, it's not an ending, it's an edit,
Speaker 2: and you've got to learn. People have to learn how
Speaker 2: to pivot. You know, we're very blessed. I say thank
Speaker 2: you God every day I'm telling the children are helping
Speaker 2: my grandchildren.
Speaker 3: I work, I make money. Every day is a blessing.
Speaker 2: And if you have that attitude, then you also say, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm a big believer in having a notebook. I write
Speaker 2: down things that I've got to get done, and I
Speaker 2: encourage clients to do that because they get lost in
Speaker 2: their depression. Write take your book, write down five things
Speaker 2: you want to get done this week, and the satisfaction
Speaker 2: of crossing off the things that you accomplished are great. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Step yeah, well another step yeah.
Speaker 1: In terms of writing things down and being prepared, what
Speaker 1: advice do you give women before they head into your office? Right,
Speaker 1: what would you say that they need to get together?
Speaker 1: You know, have at their fingertips before sitting down with you.
Speaker 2: So when I said be in the know, yeah, you
Speaker 2: need to get all the financial information you can get
Speaker 2: your hands on. One of the most revealing things, you know,
Speaker 2: nobody's going to go through years of taxi turns or
Speaker 2: years to credit cards. Did you and your husband get
Speaker 2: a mortgage recently? Did you refinance a mortgage recently? Did
Speaker 2: you buy some car recently? Because if you did and
Speaker 2: you got financing, you put on that financial statement your
Speaker 2: assets and your income right information right, because usually people
Speaker 2: augment that. They don't minimize it because they want to
Speaker 2: get the loan.
Speaker 3: But it's a great.
Speaker 2: Way to find out information, you know, nicely innocently. Also,
Speaker 2: go with your husband to a trust in the state attorney.
Speaker 2: You're entitled to know, how am I going to be protected?
Speaker 2: God forbid you die? How are the children and I
Speaker 2: going to be protected? And in that forum, it's not threatening,
Speaker 2: it's not a divorce. It's sharing of information. So there
Speaker 2: are different ways that you could get information without triggering
Speaker 2: an awareness that.
Speaker 1: Right, right, Yeah, that's it, And I would think also
Speaker 1: it once you get into the attorney's office, listen, the
Speaker 1: clock is running, and maybe if you're prepped, if you know,
Speaker 1: the attorney says we need this, we need this, I
Speaker 1: have it, not that I.
Speaker 2: Always you know when a client walks in and says, look,
Speaker 2: this is what my husband does. He's a hedge fund manager.
Speaker 2: Here are the assets, list them out in a balance sheet.
Speaker 2: It's great because I have a baseline that we can
Speaker 2: start from. But there are a lot of clients who
Speaker 2: come in and say, I have no idea, right, I
Speaker 2: don't even have my own bank account, my own bank account.
Speaker 2: What I have is access to a credit card. I
Speaker 2: can spend two hundred thousand a month. Yeah wow, but
Speaker 2: not one bank account, no assets in their name. Totally vulnerable.
Speaker 2: And that's why I said, before you ever ever talk
Speaker 2: about divorce, talk about what you know. Here's what I know.
Speaker 3: I know I have a c date, but this I know.
Speaker 3: We have a retirement accounts, I know the value of
Speaker 3: my house.
Speaker 2: I found out that the mortgagees is why because every
Speaker 2: time the mail comes in, I open it, I screenshot it.
Speaker 2: Nobody questions me because why it's mail that comes to
Speaker 2: both of us. Yeah. And you can do all of
Speaker 2: these things not because you're preparing for divorce, but because
Speaker 2: you are a partner entitled.
Speaker 3: To that information.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, I mean that makes sense if you have
Speaker 2: a business, you were running a business, and would you
Speaker 2: not open the mail and see what's going on, to
Speaker 2: see if the bills were paid? To see what credit
Speaker 2: line is, to see what new customers we had that
Speaker 2: would be unimaginable. You are running a business, that's right.
Speaker 2: You're running a household, you're running children, and you're running
Speaker 2: a business. Right.
Speaker 3: You know it is that you're going to make sure
Speaker 3: that you're knowledgeable about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense. You know you mentioned screenshotting. I'm
Speaker 1: just thinking about, like, we're in such a digital age
Speaker 1: right now, and we put so much of our lives
Speaker 1: onto social media. Yeah, and how much? What do you think?
Speaker 3: What do you think?
Speaker 1: Is there anything not smart to share on social media?
Speaker 3: A lot?
Speaker 2: A lot? So social media can be very deceptive, right.
Speaker 2: I have Instagram. You have Instagram. I keep it to
Speaker 2: the people that I know, you know, friends and close people.
Speaker 2: But if you're public, you want to be careful about
Speaker 2: what you're putting out there. If you're getting divorced, you
Speaker 2: want to be even more careful.
Speaker 3: So I have had clients who post everything.
Speaker 2: They post travel with their girlfriends, Their girlfriends post gifts
Speaker 2: that they received, and the spouse gets access to that.
Speaker 2: So when a spouse says, hey, I didn't go anywhere
Speaker 2: and travel, I was traveling for business. I don't have
Speaker 2: a girlfriend, all of a sudden, you have examples and evidence.
Speaker 3: Right, that is a lie, right, And so you have
Speaker 3: to be you have to be careful about what you
Speaker 3: put out there.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: For people sometimes who put out and they're sharers, right,
Speaker 2: it's not to put their show offs. They're just sharers.
Speaker 2: So they put out information about their travels and the
Speaker 2: beautiful hotels and the.
Speaker 3: Gifts that they receive.
Speaker 2: And then it's putting out way too much information because
Speaker 2: not everybody is happy for you, and you want to
Speaker 2: share with people who are happy with you. So in
Speaker 2: terms of a divorce litigation, there is a lot of
Speaker 2: evidence in that social media that's so interesting and not
Speaker 2: that not only in Instagram, Facebook, but we can get
Speaker 2: access to your emails, we can get access to your
Speaker 2: digital So if I serve a subpoena and I want
Speaker 2: electronic discovery, and I ask for a cored order to
Speaker 2: download your computer, ugh, what a mess. I can image
Speaker 2: what was on your computer and you think you deleted everything.
Speaker 2: It lives on the server until you overdo it and
Speaker 2: then it wipes it out. But that takes a long time.
Speaker 2: But that information during the course of a discovery in
Speaker 2: a divorce case is accessible.
Speaker 1: Let's say you're getting ready for divorce and can you
Speaker 1: go and get all of your stuff wiped out? Can
Speaker 1: you take your computer the Apple Store?
Speaker 2: Well, you know what, a good forensic account knows that
Speaker 2: you did that?
Speaker 3: Well did they?
Speaker 1: So they can say they could image your computer.
Speaker 3: And say it got wiped out? You did that intentionally? Now, okay,
Speaker 3: so you did. What's the court going to infirm that there.
Speaker 2: Was something wrong? But very hard to prove what was wrong?
Speaker 1: Right, right, So you will suggest doing that.
Speaker 3: I'm not suggesting anything.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying that it can't that it can't be done.
Speaker 3: But as I just said, you.
Speaker 2: Could retrieve like you think you wiped it out, but
Speaker 2: if it lives on the server, it can be retrieved it.
Speaker 2: So that's a very technical question for good forensic investigators.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, we know elect discovery.
Speaker 2: We use those who are in the know. I had
Speaker 2: a case many years ago as a terrible custody case
Speaker 2: that represented the father and the mother had the children
Speaker 2: put a flask drive into the father's computer. He had
Speaker 2: a girlfriend and the kids innocently were on his computer
Speaker 2: plane and they came across these photographs.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, it's compromising.
Speaker 2: They shared it when they went home. Daddy has a girlfriend.
Speaker 2: We saw, well what pictures did you see? And innocently said,
Speaker 2: and she taught them how.
Speaker 3: To use the Lass drive.
Speaker 2: Next week after you know, their their access, they put
Speaker 2: the last drive and all the pictures came down. Oh
Speaker 2: my god.
Speaker 3: And so we served it.
Speaker 2: We found out, we served a subpoena to retrieve her computer.
Speaker 2: We saw that she had, you know, had them download everything.
Speaker 2: That created really significant problems. A. It's criminal events. B.
Speaker 2: She could have lost the custody of her children.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Wow, So you've got to be careful about what you do.
Speaker 2: You've if you're getting a divorce, you do it in
Speaker 2: a dignified way. And if you have a good lawyer,
Speaker 2: they know exactly what to do. They what allows them
Speaker 2: to do. They're aggressive, they can go after the information.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can't stop it.
Speaker 1: If I have a question, if someone I think, is
Speaker 1: it different in every state? Does infidelity count to a judge?
Speaker 1: If you're getting divorced in.
Speaker 3: New York, it doesn't. You can screw six elephants and
Speaker 3: the court couldn't get.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 3: You know, it's no fault.
Speaker 2: The only time they care is something is so egregious,
Speaker 2: like there was a case where the husband thought the
Speaker 2: wife was having an affair, and the whole case was
Speaker 2: about this affair. But he lost control. He took dem
Speaker 2: bells and he beat her nearly to death, her daughter God.
Speaker 2: And in that case, you know, fault was so egregious
Speaker 2: that the court awarded him zero and he wanted money
Speaker 2: for a criminal attorney because he was charged, and he
Speaker 2: didn't get a penny.
Speaker 3: So in New York, no fault. Most of the states
Speaker 3: now are no fault, and for good reason.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, country, it's a doubt how we're going to
Speaker 2: protect you financially?
Speaker 3: How are we going to protect right? Why is it?
Speaker 1: You know, divorce is hard, right, obviously we're talking about this.
Speaker 1: There's a lot to it. Why do you think that
Speaker 1: second marriages I've heard that the divorce rate is even higher?
Speaker 1: Is that? First of all? Is that true? And why
Speaker 1: do you think that is?
Speaker 2: I think there's sometimes some complications with a second marriage.
Speaker 2: Number one, you have blended families, and you have a
Speaker 2: lot of conflict in those blended families.
Speaker 3: Right, that reads a.
Speaker 2: Lot of animosity, a lot of stress, and that's difficult.
Speaker 2: You also have financial issues because you want to protect
Speaker 2: your children from your first marriage, and that may not
Speaker 2: sit well with your second wife. Right.
Speaker 3: On the other hand, you may.
Speaker 2: Have gotten out of a really bad marriage and now
Speaker 2: you really want to enjoy your life. So I've seen
Speaker 2: second marriages work brilliantly, beautifully because they really appreciate the person.
Speaker 2: And they may not have appreciated the spouse because they
Speaker 2: was stressed with starting a business and children. But they're
Speaker 2: at a different place now, so it really varies.
Speaker 3: It depends. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, you said you've been married over forty years Maryland.
Speaker 3: This year is forty.
Speaker 2: So this year I'm turning seventy, celebrating forty years of marriage.
Speaker 2: My daughter's turning thirty five. My son is getting married
Speaker 2: in Italy. Wow, so.
Speaker 3: Well all good?
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yeah, what do you think? I mean, I
Speaker 1: know this is the question is maybe a little cliche,
Speaker 1: but I want to know what you what do you advise,
Speaker 1: What do you talk to your kids about in terms
Speaker 1: of how to keep a marriage strong.
Speaker 2: You know, it's really interesting. I never talked to him
Speaker 2: about it ever. So my daughter got married, it's it's
Speaker 2: seven years with two kids. She didn't want a prena, which.
Speaker 3: Was interesting for me.
Speaker 2: I think they grew up in a home and an
Speaker 2: environment that was that taught them.
Speaker 3: It was nothing I had to say.
Speaker 2: They saw it like what a blessing, and that was
Speaker 2: the great And you know, it's interesting my parents were
Speaker 2: Holocaust survivors and we grew up with the most amazing, loving,
Speaker 2: dedicated parents, and I learned so much from them. How
Speaker 2: my mother really dedicated her life to her kids. And
Speaker 2: even though I worked, that was, that was and is
Speaker 2: my first and most important priority.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I see that with my two sisters who have raised
Speaker 2: their families and their children. And I think it's generational.
Speaker 2: You know, when when you set a good example, you
Speaker 2: learn right better than anyone telling you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, would you have preferred that your daughter had a prenup? So?
Speaker 1: Which I think it's especially like on our first marriage.
Speaker 1: It's such a delicate topic, right, but so I don't know,
Speaker 1: let's not make it specific to your daughter. Do you
Speaker 1: suggest that women get a prenup? Is this something that
Speaker 1: you would suggest going in I have.
Speaker 2: I happen to dislike prenups for a whole host of
Speaker 2: reason because they can't be very unfair.
Speaker 3: The example of it gave you right.
Speaker 2: They are important in second marriages because you have accumulated
Speaker 2: a lot of wealth, yeah, that your partner did not
Speaker 2: earn right, and you may want to protect that for
Speaker 2: your children. And so you can be as generous as
Speaker 2: you want during the marriage, but if things go south
Speaker 2: in a second marriage, those assets deserve.
Speaker 3: To be protected to have to be there.
Speaker 2: Also, on the other hand, prenups are good wife sometimes.
Speaker 2: And I'll segue because Kelly gave us permission.
Speaker 1: Let's first tell our listeners. So by the way, you
Speaker 1: actually worked with our very own Kelly Bensimone on the
Speaker 1: disillusion of her engagement.
Speaker 2: Yes, And so what I was going to say is
Speaker 2: pre nups can be really good because you can find
Speaker 2: out financial information that you didn't know. So if you're
Speaker 2: with someone and every weekend you go out to this big,
Speaker 2: beautiful house and Bridge Hampton, he picks you up in
Speaker 2: a Ferrari, you.
Speaker 3: Drive out there.
Speaker 2: You've gone to the south of France, You've gone.
Speaker 3: To Sardinia for vacation.
Speaker 2: You have this incredible lifestyle and you think he's got
Speaker 2: a lot of money. But then all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: you see that balance sheet when you're doing a pre
Speaker 2: nap and you go, wait a minute, I thought you
Speaker 2: own that house you're renting it. I thought that cart
Speaker 2: was right. You've got a lease on it. You're getting
Speaker 2: financial information. And Kelly, who was so gorgeous and so
Speaker 2: full of life and devoted mother the best, built a
Speaker 2: lot in her life. Yes, and she had found a
Speaker 2: man that she wanted to marry.
Speaker 3: And the first thing we said.
Speaker 2: He got a lawyer and I said, I need his
Speaker 2: statement of network. Well, okay, well we'll get back to you.
Speaker 2: And then a week passed and I said I need
Speaker 2: a statement.
Speaker 3: Of net worth. I'm drafting.
Speaker 2: We meant, I have to have that information. Make a
Speaker 2: long story short. He refused to provide any financial information.
Speaker 1: Red flag red red red.
Speaker 3: So I said to her, what are you doing?
Speaker 2: Yeah, if someone is not being forthcoming now before you're married, sure,
Speaker 2: I can guarantee you you're never going to have the
Speaker 2: transparency during the marriage.
Speaker 3: But more importantly, if.
Speaker 2: He's not prepared to show you what he has, what
Speaker 2: he's earning.
Speaker 3: Then he's looking to you to support you.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Wow, she should not work for you. And she's smart
Speaker 2: and it was hard and she said, oh my god, Marylyn,
Speaker 2: absolutely you're right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, good And that was a smart move because.
Speaker 2: You look at red flags. You look at what's out
Speaker 2: there that I'm not getting the information on. If I'm
Speaker 2: not getting the information on when we're in love, I'm
Speaker 2: certainly not going to get it when we're married. Yeah. Wow.
Speaker 1: So I just think this is invaluable, invaluable this. I
Speaker 1: hope that a lot of our listeners catch this particular episode.
Speaker 1: And it was fun and it was fun, and I
Speaker 1: hope I don't know if you've ever written a book.
Speaker 3: Well, you know what, it's.
Speaker 2: Funny because I am writing two books. I don't a
Speaker 2: proposal for one, and I'm doing a children's book. My
Speaker 2: son and I it came to us while we were
Speaker 2: driving in the car together. He's thirty years old, and
Speaker 2: we started talking about something and boom, the light went
Speaker 2: off and we said, let's let's do a children's book. Wow.
Speaker 3: But the other book, it's basically shut Up and Settled.
Speaker 1: I love that. That's a great title.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So I'm I'm i gotta I got to get up
Speaker 3: at three in the morning.
Speaker 2: I'm you know, it's like I got to find that
Speaker 2: little time.
Speaker 3: But I'll get there.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I'm not planning on getting divorced, but
Speaker 1: I will buy what I will buy it.
Speaker 2: My wonderful client just came out with a fabulous book
Speaker 2: called Strangers, Bell Burden. It's It's made the New York
Speaker 2: Times bestseller list and she wrote a book about her divorce.
Speaker 2: And I'm gonna tootor worn because it's.
Speaker 3: As we should read.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, okay, yeah, there's a.
Speaker 3: Lot of information.
Speaker 2: But I think, you know, you want to talk to
Speaker 2: people that will share sharing. A lot of women share,
Speaker 2: and that's a great thing. And I like those women
Speaker 2: because the women you can spart your advice, and I
Speaker 2: think that's important.
Speaker 4: I do too.
Speaker 1: I find that I I friendships now as I've gotten older,
Speaker 1: I'm a little I'm you know, I'm a little pickier,
Speaker 1: but I definitely, but I definitely am drawn to women
Speaker 1: that share because I'm such a sharer and I find
Speaker 1: that that kind of vulnerability is how I connect. And
Speaker 1: I'm not getting that back.
Speaker 2: It's then you're you're you're very nice.
Speaker 3: But you're at a distance.
Speaker 1: Yep, that's exactly right.
Speaker 2: Well, the person really is open and appreciates you and
Speaker 2: vice versa.
Speaker 3: Yes, thank you, and I agree.
Speaker 2: Do I get I want my people who are around me.
Speaker 3: To be my special people?
Speaker 1: Yes, me too.
Speaker 3: Me too.
Speaker 2: Those friendships that are really not friendships, I put them
Speaker 2: in a different category friendly.
Speaker 1: We're friendly. Yeah, they're just a yeah yeah. Well, Marilyn,
Speaker 1: thank you so much.
Speaker 2: For coming, not talking to you. Great to meet you,
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Please be welcome.
Speaker 3: Bye.
Speaker 1: So are you trying to bounce back in your chapter
Speaker 1: two after divorce? Do you need some help? Call us
Speaker 1: or email us. All the infos in the show notes,
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Speaker 1: falling in love is the main objective.