1 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: Hi guys, it's I Do Part two. I'm back your 2 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 1: celebrity mentor Jenniferfessler and Vatentime's day is around the corner. 3 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: And some of you may hate your husband's guts. If 4 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: that's the case, this is the episode for you. We 5 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: are bringing an incredible divorce attorney. Her name is Marilyn 6 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: Chinitz and she's been working in the field for over 7 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: thirty five years. You may have seen her on the 8 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: Today Show on twenty twenty. She's a celebrity divorce attorney. 9 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 1: Marilynd This is I Do Part two. But some of 10 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: our listeners might be contemplating divorce, and I want to 11 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: pick your brain about the gray divorce or the silver divorce. 12 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: Why is a divorce attorney? Are we seeing more and 13 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: more couples divorcing when they are fifty five plus? 14 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 2: Okay, so gray divorce really unfortunate. I married forty years 15 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 2: and when your life really kind of takes hold and 16 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 2: it's really sad when it comes to an ending, like 17 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 2: the rug comes out and a lot of particularly women, 18 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 2: were not expecting it. So divorce doesn't really happen boom 19 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:32,199 Speaker 2: all at once. It kind of dies a death over 20 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 2: a period of time and what contributes to that lack 21 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:42,759 Speaker 2: of interest. You no longer communicate. You are living parallel lives, 22 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 2: and it doesn't just happen at once. It really does 23 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 2: take time. And then all of a sudden, someone wakes 24 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 2: up and they said, you know what, I've got my 25 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 2: last trunch, I've got another twenty years. I'm miserably unhappy. 26 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 2: I don't want to stay that way, yea, and so 27 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 2: I want to make changes. I feel like I'm doing 28 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 2: this forty one years. Divorce really is not necessarily an ending. 29 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 3: I think it could be an edit. A lot mean 30 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:12,399 Speaker 3: by that. 31 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 2: If a marriage is dead and you too are miserable, 32 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 2: and even though you haven't planned for it, it does 33 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 2: offer you an opportunity to kind of reconnect with yourself. 34 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 2: There are so many things that happen that I see. 35 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,799 Speaker 2: I do a luncheon every year for sixty women. I've 36 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,639 Speaker 2: been doing it literally for probably about twenty years. And 37 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 2: they get there at twelve, they leave at five, and 38 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 2: last year I did it at a wonderful restaurant downtown. 39 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 2: And the purpose of that their former clients, their current clients, 40 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 2: their presidents of major company plastic surgeons, decorators. But It 41 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 2: gives them an opportunity to meet each other and to 42 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 2: see that there is really life. You can recreate yourself 43 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 2: in so many different ways. And that's why I said 44 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 2: I'd love to turn the table around and to interview 45 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 2: you because I look at you and you have a 46 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 2: career in fashion. 47 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 3: In two you have a career in TV. 48 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 2: So to me, I think there's nothing better than that recreating. 49 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,079 Speaker 2: So I'm seventy now next month, and I'm thinking about 50 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 2: not retiring because I'm not interested in doing that. But 51 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 2: how do I recreate myself? How do I do often 52 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 2: different things? 53 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: Well, first and most importantly, wow, seventy. On another episode, 54 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: you will tell us how one does that, because seventy 55 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: looks unbelievable on you, lady, that is crazy. Thank you, 56 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: You're very welcome. Tell yeah, it shows. 57 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 2: Both professionals too adorable grandchildren. Wow. 58 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: Okay, Well, we're going to have to bring you back 59 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: so you can help us get there. 60 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 3: Ready to come. 61 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 2: So I think Horse is sad for a lot of 62 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 2: reasons because. 63 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 3: You really think that. 64 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 2: The retirement years of the time that you're going to 65 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 2: enjoy the wealth. Number One you created, right, You've built 66 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 2: such a significant marital estate or a marital estate doesn't 67 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 2: have to be significant. And you expected that you were 68 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 2: perhaps going to retire, you were going to travel, you 69 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 2: were going to buy something or explore things, and all 70 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 2: of a sudden you find that you're alone and hard. 71 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 3: That's hard. 72 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 2: But I also think marriage takes a lot of work, 73 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 2: and we do it in our everyday lives. We work hard. 74 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 2: I work hard as a lawyer. You work hard in 75 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 2: everything that you do. It does take a lot of work, 76 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 2: and you've got to That's that time. You can't wake 77 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 2: up all of a sudden say, oh boy, you know, 78 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 2: all these years passed and now I'm miserable. 79 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 3: If you were miserable. 80 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 2: Long, then you've got to You've got to take hold 81 00:04:58,040 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 2: of what's going on in term. 82 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 1: I love how you're talking about that, that reinvention. It's true. 83 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: I I you know my shoe company. I started a 84 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 1: shoe company at fifty. I got on Housewives at fifty 85 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: three and never felt more excited or happier about a career. Right, 86 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:16,239 Speaker 1: I'm fifty seven. 87 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 3: Now, yay, you're gorgeous. That's you're gorgeous. 88 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: Well, thank you, thank you. 89 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 3: Just keep doing this all day. 90 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. Mutual admiration society. Well, but the thing is 91 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 1: for me, well, I don't know it was. I'm married, 92 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: and I had that support when I started to reinvent myself, 93 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: you know, emotional, mental, and financial. But women, i think, 94 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong, probably have a harder time. 95 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: Only a lot of times they're not in the same 96 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: place career wise, right, and so they don't have Reinventing 97 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: themselves may mean reinventing themselves from being a mother and 98 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: a wife as opposed to you know, a lot of 99 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 1: times that support system in place, right, But they it 100 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 1: seems that more women are now you tell me, but 101 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 1: are now interested in divorcing at a later age. 102 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 2: They are for a lot of reasons. Some of them 103 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 2: have been very, very controlling marriages and they feel like 104 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 2: the oxygen has been taken out of them and they 105 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 2: don't want to live like that anymore. And those are 106 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 2: women who have lived a very good life, and there's 107 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 2: a lot of money there, but they're always you know, 108 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:27,039 Speaker 2: doesn't always have to be that there's a lot of money. 109 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 2: If you look at some people like Arianna Huffington, she 110 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 2: had a terrible marriage, a terrible marriage and a terrible 111 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 2: divorce and look how she recreated herself. 112 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: Huffington Post was after that. Yeah, wow, I didn't know that. 113 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: That's incredible, Diane. 114 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 2: Von Furstenberg, Right, she was broke at age thirty and 115 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 2: then built this empire. 116 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 3: Wow. 117 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 2: So you know, there are really sad stories where people 118 00:06:56,320 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 2: really don't have anything. I give those women women in particular, 119 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 2: tremendous credit. And the service that I have to bring 120 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 2: to my clients is to give them that empowerment. Hence 121 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 2: that luncheon. 122 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I love that. I would love to attend that. 123 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: So in terms of the finances though, what how do 124 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: you guide women financially? I know it's a big question, 125 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: not how do you guide them, but like what are 126 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: the mistakes do you tell them to look out for 127 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: financially when they're preparing for divorce. 128 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 2: I like to do programs for women before they get divorced, 129 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 2: and it's usually younger women who come. You know, I 130 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 2: may have done their pre nups and then we have 131 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 2: these really good lunch and learn and you want to 132 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 2: be in the know. A lot of women stay totally 133 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 2: remove from the finances. The biggest mistake you can make, right, 134 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 2: you want to be in the know. You're asked to 135 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 2: sign a joint tax return. 136 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 3: Look at the tax return, make a copy of it. 137 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 2: You'll sign it, maybe I'm sure, but you want to 138 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 2: look at it afterwards. Hey, I didn't know. What's that 139 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 2: taxable interest? What's that deduction? You've you've got a good 140 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 2: group of professionals around you. You can have your own 141 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 2: account and you can have your own financial person. And 142 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 2: so you want to look at your credit card statements? 143 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 2: What do I do? 144 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 3: How much so I spend every month? What am I 145 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 3: spending on? What are you spending on? 146 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 2: You want to look at what assets do we have. 147 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 2: We have this magnificent home in the Hamptons. We paid 148 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 2: twenty million for it. But the real key question is 149 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 2: how much is my mortgage? Is my mortgage fifteen million? 150 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 2: So I only have equity of five million. You don't 151 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 2: want to wake up years later and my god, that's 152 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 2: like a time bomb, that's like, oh my god. 153 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 3: What happened? 154 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: Right? 155 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,960 Speaker 2: Don't put yourself in that position. You need to be 156 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 2: in the know all along. And why shouldn't you Why 157 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 2: shouldn't you be the partner that this person married. And 158 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 2: I don't want to focus on women, but very often 159 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 2: it is the woman sure, she's busy. If she's not working, 160 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 2: she is working, she's raising a family. 161 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: It's me, listen, I am guilty of it. I not 162 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: as much anymore, and I'm on the meetings we have 163 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: with our finance guide. But it's very easy for me 164 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: to sort of bury my head in the hand because 165 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 1: numbers and taxes and you know, pensions and all of 166 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: that is very uninteresting to me. And shame on me 167 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: because it's my life. 168 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 3: We all do it. 169 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:34,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's hard for you. 170 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 3: I have a CD coming. 171 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 2: My husband will call me. We have a CD. Let's 172 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 2: do now, what do you want to do? Well, he's 173 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 2: learned to ask me, what do you want to do? 174 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 1: Oh? I love that. 175 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 2: But you have to be aware of things, so that 176 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 2: to me is one of the important things. 177 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: Right. 178 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 2: I like the idea of befriending, you know, a financial person, 179 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 2: even in a turney, I am a good friend. I 180 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:01,439 Speaker 2: like the idea of empowering yourself, of course with knowledge, right, 181 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 2: so you don't wake up one day and that the 182 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 2: blanket is taken off and there you are. 183 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 1: I've had lots of friends that have gone through that. 184 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: And also I'm curious about if you have a prenup, 185 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: and I have many friends that also have a prenup. 186 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: How do you handle that so that you are taking 187 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: care of so, in other words, do you update it 188 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:24,319 Speaker 1: every few years? 189 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 3: This is a good question, that's a really good question. 190 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 2: Most people never look at that pre nup after its signed, 191 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:33,680 Speaker 2: and that is such a mistake. So I'll give you 192 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 2: an example. I have a client. At the time that 193 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 2: she signed her pre nup, the husband was worth one 194 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 2: hundred million under the terms of the prenup. Very unfair. 195 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 2: She got ten million as a distributed payment. By the 196 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 2: time they're getting divorced, now he's worth seven hundred million. 197 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 2: Oh my god, she's adding ten million. But that almost 198 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 2: sounds unconscionable. She never looked at the prina. She never 199 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 2: ever discussed, Hey, we're buying all these properties, how come 200 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 2: they're in your name only? Why can't we put it 201 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 2: in joint names. 202 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: Wow. 203 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 2: So now we have a situation where she's got a 204 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 2: very unfair prena. He knows it. So we're negotiating, but 205 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:28,719 Speaker 2: not to where she. 206 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 3: Needs to be. 207 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: That what a cautionary tale. Not I mean ten million dollars. 208 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: A lot of most people would think that's. 209 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 2: Well right, and right, but a judge, and so if 210 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 2: you go into court and you say your honor, it's unconscionable. 211 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: This judge is probably doesn't have anyone. 212 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 4: Appreciated in value because partly of her efforts, and the 213 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 4: court's going to say, well, how about is she getting 214 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 4: well under the agreement ten million? 215 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: But that's unconscionable, of course, But he's a crime a river. 216 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 2: Crime a river two hundred and I have four kids 217 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 2: and my wife manages very well. 218 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:05,359 Speaker 3: Right, it's one realistic. 219 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:19,839 Speaker 1: So now you're five, ten, twenty years into the marriage, 220 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: I would think that it's if the marriage is getting rocky, 221 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 1: it's harder to convince your partner to renegotiate. 222 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 3: But don't wait that long. 223 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,959 Speaker 2: So I just did a post not they're happily married, 224 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 2: and she was smart. She pulled up the prenup and 225 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 2: she said, look, this isn't fair. Yeah, seven properties, not 226 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:40,439 Speaker 2: one is. 227 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 3: In my name. 228 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 2: And he said, you know what, You're absolutely right. So 229 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 2: now renegotiated everything. She's set now for ten lives. 230 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 3: Wow, that's what you have to do. You have to 231 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 3: be in the know, you have to be knowledgeable, and 232 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 3: you have to care enough about yourself to make that inquiry. 233 00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: Such good advice. I hope our listeners are taking notes. 234 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: So I think it's that's it's great advice. How often, though, 235 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:07,199 Speaker 1: do you see couples reconcile just out of curiosity, because 236 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 1: like during the divorce process, Because that's what happened to me. 237 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: I was separated, Yeah, for like a year and a half, 238 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:17,959 Speaker 1: and I had a boyfriend, he had a girlfriend. We 239 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: were moving on. We had had infidelity in our marriage, 240 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: and we just for whatever reason, it just we neither 241 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: one of us wanted really to be for whatever reason, 242 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: because we love each other. 243 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 3: And I think that's a great story. 244 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,319 Speaker 1: I really thank you. I mean I used to I 245 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: used to say, well, I do say that, like I 246 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 1: used to cheat on my boyfriend and meet my husband 247 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: right right like like and it was so ridiculous. 248 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 3: Does it happen often? 249 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:46,079 Speaker 1: Do you find that, you know. 250 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 3: What doesn't happen? 251 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 1: It doesn't is very rarely. 252 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, and unfortunately because so much damage is done and 253 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 2: there's a lack of communication. So you loved your husband, 254 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 2: he loved you. Yeah, just a circumstance answers presented itself 255 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:05,199 Speaker 2: that drove that way. You know, it was unfortunate. 256 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:07,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what I think, Marylyn, it was a 257 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: little it was a little fortunate our marriage changed after 258 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: that separation. 259 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 3: Well, of course it's both. 260 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:16,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And you know sometimes listen forty years of marriage, 261 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 2: it's not like, oh my god, it's wonderful, right, It's 262 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 2: really rocky moments. 263 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 3: Sure, And there are moments where you're screaming and yelling. 264 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 2: There are moments where you're you know, you're living apart 265 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 2: from each other, whether it's a month or a week 266 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:34,239 Speaker 2: or whatever. You've got to recalibrate, You've got to restart. 267 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, do you think that that when I you say 268 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: that you have to live apart? You of course have 269 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: part of the sleep divorce, where couples stop sleeping in 270 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 1: I guess the same room. Is that a good thing? 271 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: I think that's like a hop, skip jump away from them. 272 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 3: I don't think it's sad at all. 273 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. 274 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 2: And you know, I live in Connecticut, but I could 275 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 2: no longer do the commute back and forth. And I 276 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 2: said to my husband, I love you, our kids not 277 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 2: out of the house, but I can't do this anymore. 278 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 2: Eleven o'clock at night, I'm getting off the train with 279 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 2: my suitcase, my briefcase, not for me. So I a 280 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 2: little studio in the city and I walk to work, 281 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 2: he comes in, we go to the theater. That separation 282 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 2: is great. 283 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 3: I agree. 284 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: I love that because we don't see them separate rooms. 285 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: My husband is constantly traveling. I travel a lot. When 286 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: he's he doesn't. He goes into the office. But even 287 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: when he's home, he's in his home office. We're not 288 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: on top of each other. And I think that that 289 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: has been so hosting. 290 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know what it is, you feel secure 291 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 2: in your marriage. If you feel secure in your marriage, 292 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 2: you don't get all upset. And having that space, in 293 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 2: my view, should be encouraged. My husband would take trips 294 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 2: with his friends. He's born in Sweden. They do these 295 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 2: wonderful ski trips. 296 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 3: They used to do with a group of friends. That's great. 297 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 2: I bike with a group of judges and matrimonial lawyers. 298 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 2: We have gone to Italy, We've gone to Czech Republic, Germany, Austria. 299 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 3: Wow week. 300 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 2: And you want your partner to feel stimulated, that you 301 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 2: want them to be happy for you, that you're happy 302 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 2: and that you and I think that's you know, that's important. 303 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 1: I think that well, that sort of answers that the 304 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: question I have. You know, living in what is it 305 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: called living apart together l A T couples or something? 306 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 1: You live in different states like some celebrities do that. Yeah, 307 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: you don't think that, you think that's a bit that's a. 308 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 2: Little although I am because I'm in New York, he's 309 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 2: in Connecticut. 310 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: But that's. 311 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 2: You don't want to have too much distance, you know, 312 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 2: you want to have just enough that you are independent, 313 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 2: and you can. If you're independent in your marriage but 314 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 2: dependent on each other's love, you're going to have a 315 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 2: good marriage. 316 00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, yeah, I feel like that. I mean, 317 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 1: I I The truth is I don't make the kind 318 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: of money that my husband makes. The money I'm bringing 319 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: in it's good, especially for someone who started a career 320 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 1: later in life, but it doesn't pay our mortgages. 321 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 2: It gives you independence, yes, exactly, and I'm just really 322 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 2: appreciates and it does. 323 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 1: Yes, he does. It's true. Tell me something that you 324 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: think people assume about divorce, that's that's not true. 325 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 2: That it's the ending that I'm never going to find somebody. 326 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:31,439 Speaker 2: This is a miserable way for me to. 327 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 3: End my life. And I think that is the biggest 328 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 3: bunch of crap. 329 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. 330 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 3: I love that. 331 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 1: It really doesn't have to be right. 332 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 2: No, And I say, it's not an ending, it's an edit, 333 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,639 Speaker 2: and you've got to learn. People have to learn how 334 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 2: to pivot. You know, we're very blessed. I say thank 335 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 2: you God every day I'm telling the children are helping 336 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 2: my grandchildren. 337 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 3: I work, I make money. Every day is a blessing. 338 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 2: And if you have that attitude, then you also say, Okay, 339 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 2: I'm a big believer in having a notebook. I write 340 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 2: down things that I've got to get done, and I 341 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 2: encourage clients to do that because they get lost in 342 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 2: their depression. Write take your book, write down five things 343 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:20,360 Speaker 2: you want to get done this week, and the satisfaction 344 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:24,360 Speaker 2: of crossing off the things that you accomplished are great. Yeah. 345 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 3: Step yeah, well another step yeah. 346 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: In terms of writing things down and being prepared, what 347 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:36,160 Speaker 1: advice do you give women before they head into your office? Right, 348 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: what would you say that they need to get together? 349 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: You know, have at their fingertips before sitting down with you. 350 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 2: So when I said be in the know, yeah, you 351 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 2: need to get all the financial information you can get 352 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 2: your hands on. One of the most revealing things, you know, 353 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 2: nobody's going to go through years of taxi turns or 354 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 2: years to credit cards. Did you and your husband get 355 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,439 Speaker 2: a mortgage recently? Did you refinance a mortgage recently? Did 356 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 2: you buy some car recently? Because if you did and 357 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 2: you got financing, you put on that financial statement your 358 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 2: assets and your income right information right, because usually people 359 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 2: augment that. They don't minimize it because they want to 360 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 2: get the loan. 361 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 3: But it's a great. 362 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 2: Way to find out information, you know, nicely innocently. Also, 363 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 2: go with your husband to a trust in the state attorney. 364 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 2: You're entitled to know, how am I going to be protected? 365 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 2: God forbid you die? How are the children and I 366 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 2: going to be protected? And in that forum, it's not threatening, 367 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,880 Speaker 2: it's not a divorce. It's sharing of information. So there 368 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 2: are different ways that you could get information without triggering 369 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:51,639 Speaker 2: an awareness that. 370 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 1: Right, right, Yeah, that's it, And I would think also 371 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: it once you get into the attorney's office, listen, the 372 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 1: clock is running, and maybe if you're prepped, if you know, 373 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: the attorney says we need this, we need this, I 374 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: have it, not that I. 375 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 2: Always you know when a client walks in and says, look, 376 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 2: this is what my husband does. He's a hedge fund manager. 377 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 2: Here are the assets, list them out in a balance sheet. 378 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 2: It's great because I have a baseline that we can 379 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 2: start from. But there are a lot of clients who 380 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 2: come in and say, I have no idea, right, I 381 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,439 Speaker 2: don't even have my own bank account, my own bank account. 382 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 2: What I have is access to a credit card. I 383 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 2: can spend two hundred thousand a month. Yeah wow, but 384 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 2: not one bank account, no assets in their name. Totally vulnerable. 385 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:53,440 Speaker 2: And that's why I said, before you ever ever talk 386 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 2: about divorce, talk about what you know. Here's what I know. 387 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 3: I know I have a c date, but this I know. 388 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 3: We have a retirement accounts, I know the value of 389 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 3: my house. 390 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,640 Speaker 2: I found out that the mortgagees is why because every 391 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 2: time the mail comes in, I open it, I screenshot it. 392 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,639 Speaker 2: Nobody questions me because why it's mail that comes to 393 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 2: both of us. Yeah. And you can do all of 394 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,959 Speaker 2: these things not because you're preparing for divorce, but because 395 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 2: you are a partner entitled. 396 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 3: To that information. 397 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 2: Yeah right, I mean that makes sense if you have 398 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 2: a business, you were running a business, and would you 399 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 2: not open the mail and see what's going on, to 400 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,879 Speaker 2: see if the bills were paid? To see what credit 401 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 2: line is, to see what new customers we had that 402 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,679 Speaker 2: would be unimaginable. You are running a business, that's right. 403 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 2: You're running a household, you're running children, and you're running 404 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:49,640 Speaker 2: a business. Right. 405 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,160 Speaker 3: You know it is that you're going to make sure 406 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 3: that you're knowledgeable about. 407 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:57,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense. You know you mentioned screenshotting. I'm 408 00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: just thinking about, like, we're in such a digital age 409 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: right now, and we put so much of our lives 410 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 1: onto social media. Yeah, and how much? What do you think? 411 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 3: What do you think? 412 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 1: Is there anything not smart to share on social media? 413 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 3: A lot? 414 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 2: A lot? So social media can be very deceptive, right. 415 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 2: I have Instagram. You have Instagram. I keep it to 416 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:26,160 Speaker 2: the people that I know, you know, friends and close people. 417 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 2: But if you're public, you want to be careful about 418 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 2: what you're putting out there. If you're getting divorced, you 419 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 2: want to be even more careful. 420 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 3: So I have had clients who post everything. 421 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 2: They post travel with their girlfriends, Their girlfriends post gifts 422 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 2: that they received, and the spouse gets access to that. 423 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,159 Speaker 2: So when a spouse says, hey, I didn't go anywhere 424 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 2: and travel, I was traveling for business. I don't have 425 00:22:55,640 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 2: a girlfriend, all of a sudden, you have examples and evidence. 426 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 3: Right, that is a lie, right, And so you have 427 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 3: to be you have to be careful about what you 428 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 3: put out there. 429 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 4: Right. 430 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 2: For people sometimes who put out and they're sharers, right, 431 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,120 Speaker 2: it's not to put their show offs. They're just sharers. 432 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 2: So they put out information about their travels and the 433 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 2: beautiful hotels and the. 434 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,159 Speaker 3: Gifts that they receive. 435 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:27,119 Speaker 2: And then it's putting out way too much information because 436 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 2: not everybody is happy for you, and you want to 437 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 2: share with people who are happy with you. So in 438 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 2: terms of a divorce litigation, there is a lot of 439 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 2: evidence in that social media that's so interesting and not 440 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 2: that not only in Instagram, Facebook, but we can get 441 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 2: access to your emails, we can get access to your 442 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,880 Speaker 2: digital So if I serve a subpoena and I want 443 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 2: electronic discovery, and I ask for a cored order to 444 00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 2: download your computer, ugh, what a mess. I can image 445 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,200 Speaker 2: what was on your computer and you think you deleted everything. 446 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 2: It lives on the server until you overdo it and 447 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 2: then it wipes it out. But that takes a long time. 448 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 2: But that information during the course of a discovery in 449 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 2: a divorce case is accessible. 450 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: Let's say you're getting ready for divorce and can you 451 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 1: go and get all of your stuff wiped out? Can 452 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 1: you take your computer the Apple Store? 453 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 2: Well, you know what, a good forensic account knows that 454 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 2: you did that? 455 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:39,239 Speaker 3: Well did they? 456 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: So they can say they could image your computer. 457 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 3: And say it got wiped out? You did that intentionally? Now, okay, 458 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 3: so you did. What's the court going to infirm that there. 459 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 2: Was something wrong? But very hard to prove what was wrong? 460 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 1: Right, right, So you will suggest doing that. 461 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 3: I'm not suggesting anything. 462 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,640 Speaker 2: I'm just saying that it can't that it can't be done. 463 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 3: But as I just said, you. 464 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 2: Could retrieve like you think you wiped it out, but 465 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:11,879 Speaker 2: if it lives on the server, it can be retrieved it. 466 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 2: So that's a very technical question for good forensic investigators. 467 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, we know elect discovery. 468 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,239 Speaker 2: We use those who are in the know. I had 469 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 2: a case many years ago as a terrible custody case 470 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 2: that represented the father and the mother had the children 471 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,880 Speaker 2: put a flask drive into the father's computer. He had 472 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,920 Speaker 2: a girlfriend and the kids innocently were on his computer 473 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 2: plane and they came across these photographs. 474 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:48,920 Speaker 3: Oh my god, it's compromising. 475 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,679 Speaker 2: They shared it when they went home. Daddy has a girlfriend. 476 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 2: We saw, well what pictures did you see? And innocently said, 477 00:25:58,560 --> 00:25:59,640 Speaker 2: and she taught them how. 478 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 3: To use the Lass drive. 479 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 2: Next week after you know, their their access, they put 480 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 2: the last drive and all the pictures came down. Oh 481 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 2: my god. 482 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:10,639 Speaker 3: And so we served it. 483 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 2: We found out, we served a subpoena to retrieve her computer. 484 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 2: We saw that she had, you know, had them download everything. 485 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 2: That created really significant problems. A. It's criminal events. B. 486 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,679 Speaker 2: She could have lost the custody of her children. 487 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 1: Wow. 488 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 2: Wow, So you've got to be careful about what you do. 489 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 2: You've if you're getting a divorce, you do it in 490 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 2: a dignified way. And if you have a good lawyer, 491 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,199 Speaker 2: they know exactly what to do. They what allows them 492 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 2: to do. They're aggressive, they can go after the information. 493 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 3: Yeah, you can't stop it. 494 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: If I have a question, if someone I think, is 495 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: it different in every state? Does infidelity count to a judge? 496 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 1: If you're getting divorced in. 497 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 3: New York, it doesn't. You can screw six elephants and 498 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 3: the court couldn't get. 499 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: No. 500 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 3: You know, it's no fault. 501 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 2: The only time they care is something is so egregious, 502 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,440 Speaker 2: like there was a case where the husband thought the 503 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:17,159 Speaker 2: wife was having an affair, and the whole case was 504 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 2: about this affair. But he lost control. He took dem 505 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 2: bells and he beat her nearly to death, her daughter God. 506 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 2: And in that case, you know, fault was so egregious 507 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 2: that the court awarded him zero and he wanted money 508 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 2: for a criminal attorney because he was charged, and he 509 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 2: didn't get a penny. 510 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 3: So in New York, no fault. Most of the states 511 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 3: now are no fault, and for good reason. 512 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, country, it's a doubt how we're going to 513 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 2: protect you financially? 514 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 3: How are we going to protect right? Why is it? 515 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: You know, divorce is hard, right, obviously we're talking about this. 516 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: There's a lot to it. Why do you think that 517 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 1: second marriages I've heard that the divorce rate is even higher? 518 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: Is that? First of all? Is that true? And why 519 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: do you think that is? 520 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,640 Speaker 2: I think there's sometimes some complications with a second marriage. 521 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,159 Speaker 2: Number one, you have blended families, and you have a 522 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 2: lot of conflict in those blended families. 523 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 3: Right, that reads a. 524 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 2: Lot of animosity, a lot of stress, and that's difficult. 525 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 2: You also have financial issues because you want to protect 526 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 2: your children from your first marriage, and that may not 527 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 2: sit well with your second wife. Right. 528 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 3: On the other hand, you may. 529 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 2: Have gotten out of a really bad marriage and now 530 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,360 Speaker 2: you really want to enjoy your life. So I've seen 531 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:44,719 Speaker 2: second marriages work brilliantly, beautifully because they really appreciate the person. 532 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 2: And they may not have appreciated the spouse because they 533 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 2: was stressed with starting a business and children. But they're 534 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 2: at a different place now, so it really varies. 535 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 3: It depends. Yeah. 536 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: I mean, you said you've been married over forty years Maryland. 537 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 3: This year is forty. 538 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 2: So this year I'm turning seventy, celebrating forty years of marriage. 539 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 2: My daughter's turning thirty five. My son is getting married 540 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 2: in Italy. Wow, so. 541 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 3: Well all good? 542 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yeah, what do you think? I mean, I 543 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 1: know this is the question is maybe a little cliche, 544 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 1: but I want to know what you what do you advise, 545 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: What do you talk to your kids about in terms 546 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: of how to keep a marriage strong. 547 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 2: You know, it's really interesting. I never talked to him 548 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 2: about it ever. So my daughter got married, it's it's 549 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 2: seven years with two kids. She didn't want a prena, which. 550 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 3: Was interesting for me. 551 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 2: I think they grew up in a home and an 552 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,479 Speaker 2: environment that was that taught them. 553 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 3: It was nothing I had to say. 554 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 2: They saw it like what a blessing, and that was 555 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 2: the great And you know, it's interesting my parents were 556 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 2: Holocaust survivors and we grew up with the most amazing, loving, 557 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 2: dedicated parents, and I learned so much from them. How 558 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 2: my mother really dedicated her life to her kids. And 559 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 2: even though I worked, that was, that was and is 560 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 2: my first and most important priority. 561 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. 562 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 2: I see that with my two sisters who have raised 563 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 2: their families and their children. And I think it's generational. 564 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 2: You know, when when you set a good example, you 565 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 2: learn right better than anyone telling you. 566 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, would you have preferred that your daughter had a prenup? So? 567 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 1: Which I think it's especially like on our first marriage. 568 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 1: It's such a delicate topic, right, but so I don't know, 569 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 1: let's not make it specific to your daughter. Do you 570 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: suggest that women get a prenup? Is this something that 571 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: you would suggest going in I have. 572 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 2: I happen to dislike prenups for a whole host of 573 00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 2: reason because they can't be very unfair. 574 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 3: The example of it gave you right. 575 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 2: They are important in second marriages because you have accumulated 576 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 2: a lot of wealth, yeah, that your partner did not 577 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 2: earn right, and you may want to protect that for 578 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,719 Speaker 2: your children. And so you can be as generous as 579 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 2: you want during the marriage, but if things go south 580 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 2: in a second marriage, those assets deserve. 581 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 3: To be protected to have to be there. 582 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 2: Also, on the other hand, prenups are good wife sometimes. 583 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 2: And I'll segue because Kelly gave us permission. 584 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 1: Let's first tell our listeners. So by the way, you 585 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 1: actually worked with our very own Kelly Bensimone on the 586 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: disillusion of her engagement. 587 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 2: Yes, And so what I was going to say is 588 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,840 Speaker 2: pre nups can be really good because you can find 589 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 2: out financial information that you didn't know. So if you're 590 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 2: with someone and every weekend you go out to this big, 591 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 2: beautiful house and Bridge Hampton, he picks you up in 592 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 2: a Ferrari, you. 593 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:03,640 Speaker 3: Drive out there. 594 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 2: You've gone to the south of France, You've gone. 595 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 3: To Sardinia for vacation. 596 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 2: You have this incredible lifestyle and you think he's got 597 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 2: a lot of money. But then all of a sudden, 598 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 2: you see that balance sheet when you're doing a pre 599 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 2: nap and you go, wait a minute, I thought you 600 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 2: own that house you're renting it. I thought that cart 601 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 2: was right. You've got a lease on it. You're getting 602 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 2: financial information. And Kelly, who was so gorgeous and so 603 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 2: full of life and devoted mother the best, built a 604 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 2: lot in her life. Yes, and she had found a 605 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 2: man that she wanted to marry. 606 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 3: And the first thing we said. 607 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 2: He got a lawyer and I said, I need his 608 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 2: statement of network. Well, okay, well we'll get back to you. 609 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 2: And then a week passed and I said I need 610 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:02,640 Speaker 2: a statement. 611 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 3: Of net worth. I'm drafting. 612 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 2: We meant, I have to have that information. Make a 613 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 2: long story short. He refused to provide any financial information. 614 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: Red flag red red red. 615 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 3: So I said to her, what are you doing? 616 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, if someone is not being forthcoming now before you're married, sure, 617 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 2: I can guarantee you you're never going to have the 618 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:27,719 Speaker 2: transparency during the marriage. 619 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 3: But more importantly, if. 620 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 2: He's not prepared to show you what he has, what 621 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 2: he's earning. 622 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 3: Then he's looking to you to support you. 623 00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. 624 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,719 Speaker 2: Wow, she should not work for you. And she's smart 625 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,240 Speaker 2: and it was hard and she said, oh my god, Marylyn, 626 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 2: absolutely you're right. 627 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, good And that was a smart move because. 628 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 2: You look at red flags. You look at what's out 629 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 2: there that I'm not getting the information on. If I'm 630 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 2: not getting the information on when we're in love, I'm 631 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:02,480 Speaker 2: certainly not going to get it when we're married. Yeah. Wow. 632 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: So I just think this is invaluable, invaluable this. I 633 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: hope that a lot of our listeners catch this particular episode. 634 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 1: And it was fun and it was fun, and I 635 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 1: hope I don't know if you've ever written a book. 636 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 3: Well, you know what, it's. 637 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,759 Speaker 2: Funny because I am writing two books. I don't a 638 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 2: proposal for one, and I'm doing a children's book. My 639 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 2: son and I it came to us while we were 640 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,360 Speaker 2: driving in the car together. He's thirty years old, and 641 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 2: we started talking about something and boom, the light went 642 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 2: off and we said, let's let's do a children's book. Wow. 643 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,880 Speaker 3: But the other book, it's basically shut Up and Settled. 644 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 1: I love that. That's a great title. 645 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. 646 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 3: So I'm I'm i gotta I got to get up 647 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:49,400 Speaker 3: at three in the morning. 648 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,400 Speaker 2: I'm you know, it's like I got to find that 649 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 2: little time. 650 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:53,799 Speaker 3: But I'll get there. 651 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,759 Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I'm not planning on getting divorced, but 652 00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:58,080 Speaker 1: I will buy what I will buy it. 653 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 2: My wonderful client just came out with a fabulous book 654 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:06,160 Speaker 2: called Strangers, Bell Burden. It's It's made the New York 655 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:10,280 Speaker 2: Times bestseller list and she wrote a book about her divorce. 656 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 2: And I'm gonna tootor worn because it's. 657 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,359 Speaker 3: As we should read. 658 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, okay, yeah, there's a. 659 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 3: Lot of information. 660 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 2: But I think, you know, you want to talk to 661 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 2: people that will share sharing. A lot of women share, 662 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:27,839 Speaker 2: and that's a great thing. And I like those women 663 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 2: because the women you can spart your advice, and I 664 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:32,719 Speaker 2: think that's important. 665 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 4: I do too. 666 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 1: I find that I I friendships now as I've gotten older, 667 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 1: I'm a little I'm you know, I'm a little pickier, 668 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 1: but I definitely, but I definitely am drawn to women 669 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,359 Speaker 1: that share because I'm such a sharer and I find 670 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:52,800 Speaker 1: that that kind of vulnerability is how I connect. And 671 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 1: I'm not getting that back. 672 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 2: It's then you're you're you're very nice. 673 00:35:58,080 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 3: But you're at a distance. 674 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:00,880 Speaker 1: Yep, that's exactly right. 675 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 2: Well, the person really is open and appreciates you and 676 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:04,959 Speaker 2: vice versa. 677 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 3: Yes, thank you, and I agree. 678 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 2: Do I get I want my people who are around me. 679 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 3: To be my special people? 680 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 1: Yes, me too. 681 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 3: Me too. 682 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 2: Those friendships that are really not friendships, I put them 683 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:20,760 Speaker 2: in a different category friendly. 684 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:25,720 Speaker 1: We're friendly. Yeah, they're just a yeah yeah. Well, Marilyn, 685 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 1: thank you so much. 686 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,759 Speaker 2: For coming, not talking to you. Great to meet you, 687 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:30,480 Speaker 2: Thank you. 688 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:31,680 Speaker 1: Please be welcome. 689 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:32,319 Speaker 3: Bye. 690 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,880 Speaker 1: So are you trying to bounce back in your chapter 691 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 1: two after divorce? Do you need some help? Call us 692 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 1: or email us. All the infos in the show notes, 693 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,240 Speaker 1: follow us on socials. Make sure to rate and review 694 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: the podcast I Do Part two and iHeartRadio podcasts where 695 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 1: falling in love is the main objective.