1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, A production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday, Am Holly Frying and 3 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: that Tracy F. 4 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 2: Wilson. 5 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: We talked about Charles Francis Hall. Yes, his accomplishments actually 6 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 1: get overshadowed by all of the weirdness because he did, 7 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: you know, make. 8 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 2: A record in there. 9 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, and he did some interesting things, but also he 10 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: seems like maybe really paranoid to me, right, and I'd like, 11 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:39,639 Speaker 1: I do feel like a lot of his accomplishments were 12 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: really the work of indigenous guides. Oh yeah, not really 13 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: things he can take soul credit for. You and I 14 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: had a conversation while you were working on this where 15 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: you were like to have we talked about this before. 16 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: I know, I was like halfway done with writing it, 17 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: and I was like, did I really waste a lot 18 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: of time here? 19 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 2: Did I? I checked before? 20 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: But I just like had that moment of deep self 21 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: doubt where I was like, uh, oh, Spaghettio's did I 22 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: just completely tank my week? 23 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 2: What have I done? 24 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: Well? And I went and searched through my folder and 25 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: the like, the only reference I found him in all 26 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: of my stuff is in a footnote of an article 27 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: about John Cleves Simms, who was the person who thought 28 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: that the earth was hollow, who he did an episode about. 29 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, a couple of years ago. 30 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,960 Speaker 1: So I was like, it was a thing where like 31 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 1: there was just a his name came up in the 32 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: text somewhere, and his name was in the footnotes, you know, 33 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: and a source about whatever that one sentence was. 34 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 2: And it didn't get into a lot of detail. 35 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: But I was like, was was he also into this 36 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: idea that the earth was made of hollow concentric rings? 37 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: Not to the best of my knowledge, but yeah, I 38 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: ever knows. 39 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 2: I don't know. 40 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: We talked about the Patrick Coleman incident where he shot 41 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: a man because he became pair and what really kind 42 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: of upholds that is that there were some of the 43 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: whalers that were involved in that that moment who later 44 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 1: many years later, like decades later, gave statements where they 45 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: were like, all those guys were really young, and he 46 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: could have easily like they were they totally needed somebody 47 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: to lead them. He could have probably controlled them pretty easily. 48 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: This doesn't make sense that he thinks that they were 49 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: secretly conspiring against him, right, There is another theory about 50 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:35,359 Speaker 1: it that's kind of interesting, and it also evidences his 51 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: own obsession with being like this hero and finding the 52 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: Franklin expedition. Uh huh, because there's another story and I 53 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: didn't include it here because it gets really off off 54 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: the path and becomes its own thing. Where while he 55 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 1: was away at one point like doing one of his 56 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 1: sledge things. And remember this is his second expedition, not 57 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: his his ultimate one where he passed where he was killed, 58 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 1: that while he was away, some of the local indigenous 59 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: people mentioned that there was a tomb nearby and kind 60 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: of like the pieces were coming together, that this may 61 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: have been actually a tomb made for Franklin when he died, 62 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: that the survivors actually tried to encase him in something 63 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: like stone and give him, like, you know, the send 64 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:30,519 Speaker 1: off that his level. 65 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 2: In their group would have merited. 66 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: And that these younger men got really excited about it 67 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: because they had been taken up by Hall's excitement and 68 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: they had tried to get those people to tell another 69 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: group of locals what they knew so that that could 70 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: be relayed to Hall when he got back, and that 71 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: he may have gotten angry that they thought that they 72 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: were going to be directing how this thing went, like 73 00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: his perception was that that stepped on his toes, uh huh, 74 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: and that that may have gotten him angry because he 75 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: was apparently kind of territorial about this whole thing. So like, 76 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: I really wish I could time travel and talk to 77 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: Inspector Smith and be like, are you legit and above 78 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:16,799 Speaker 1: board or are you one of those dudes who sees 79 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: yourself in another dude and protects him. I have so 80 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 1: many questions about all of these people. But it is 81 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 1: interesting that he was like, exhumed the body, there's something up, 82 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 1: and then when the body was exhumed there had clearly 83 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: been something up, definitely arsenic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's pretty 84 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: interesting to me. You know, having worked on Criminalia for 85 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: a while now, our whole first season was about poisoning, 86 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 1: and arsenic was like we joked that it was the 87 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: star of the show because it came up so often, 88 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: and we had even talked to Debora Blum at the 89 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: end of that season about arsenic and all of I 90 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: did not include all the gory details of what happens 91 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: to a person when they have arsenic poisoning it and 92 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: cute and all of that was happening to Hall, so 93 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: like anybody who kind of knew, right. But the problem 94 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: with arsenic historically was that it went unnoticed for a 95 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 1: lot of cases because it also mimicsed things like other 96 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 1: like a lot of other diseases where it's perfectly like, yes, 97 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: of course he had a stroke, look at what's happening, 98 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:27,919 Speaker 1: and it's like, yeah, no, because it was used medicinally 99 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 1: for so many things. I can also imagine a scenario 100 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: where somebody was trying to treat their own problem, yeah, 101 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: and not knowing what they were doing. Yeah, you know. 102 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: I mean this was also a time when patent medicines 103 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: might have been in those medical kits as like, as 104 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: though they were perfectly fine things to be administering, and 105 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: those were not regulated and could have had any amount 106 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: of anything in it, So it could have been completely 107 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: accidental or it could have been not. The other thing 108 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: that I find myself ruminating over in all of this 109 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: is Mary Anne Hall mm hmmm, because we don't hear 110 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: much about her. You know, her husband was gone all 111 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: the time, right. I do know that she got a 112 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: payout from the government at the conclusion of the Navy 113 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: Board hearing, like basically his salary that he was supposed 114 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: to collect for that mission she got. But that's kind 115 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: of it. We don't know much else about her life. 116 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 1: If it's notated somewhere, it may be, but I did 117 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: not come across it in my research, And of course 118 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: that may have just been because my research was focused 119 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: on the expedition. 120 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 2: But it's one of those. 121 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: Things where I'm like, man, there's a whole other story 122 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: here that I would love to hear. And that's like, 123 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 1: Mary Anne, what are your thoughts on your husband going 124 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: like I'm gonna be I'm gonna run an engraving business. Nope, 125 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 1: I'm gonna be a publisher. Nope, I'm gonna go to 126 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: the Arctic like seeya. I just I'm like, is this 127 00:06:55,760 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 1: borderline abandonment? Because he didn't stay home long ever. When 128 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: he would come back, the longest was like that two 129 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: year stretch and then it was like I'm out, yeah, yeah, 130 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: I don't. It's it's hard to know in some ways 131 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: because like I mean, there are still people who like 132 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: are in the military and are deployed. We know a 133 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: couple of people that are in lengthy times apart because 134 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: of jobs, you know, in today's world, and like the 135 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: nineteenth century had more things like that in a lot 136 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: of ways. Yeah, yeah, it's wild to consider. I also 137 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: that you will laugh at me. Are you ready, yeah, 138 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: geography laughing. Okay, well, I mean I had some embarrassed, 139 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: embarrassing geography laughing that I told you earlier, say go ahead. Well, 140 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: as I was trying to like look at maps and 141 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: like really get my handle on, okay, where exactly was 142 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: he on the northwest side of the Greenland Shore, et cetera, 143 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: I literally was like, wow, is is right there? And 144 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: I know this sounds silly, but in my head, Iceland 145 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: is just always a little farther, far farther east than 146 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: I think it is. Oh yeah, that's all, which is 147 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: a nice way to say, Hey, we're going to Iceland. 148 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: We are going to Iceland. Still very excited about this. Yeah, 149 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: we're gonna go to Iceland. It's November. If you are interested, 150 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: it's November second to the eighth. You can learn more 151 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: at Defined Destinations dot com. If you want to go 152 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: with us. It's going to be great. I love Iceland. 153 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: We've said it many times. Tracy and I have each 154 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 1: been on separate trips, and I think we're both very 155 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: excited to go back there's a lot of fun stuff 156 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: planned and then I'm hoping it's it's an interesting trip 157 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,439 Speaker 1: because we don't have as much downtime in the schedule 158 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: as we have on some other trips. 159 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:47,559 Speaker 2: But you better believe. 160 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna go find my favorite hot dogs because 161 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 1: Iceland has some great hot dogs, right and I have 162 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: you know some. I'm gonna drink some Brenovan. In some 163 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: places there's a Lebowski bar. Yes, that is amazing, and 164 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 1: I'm going there again. I'm just gonna make it happen. 165 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 166 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 1: You and I had a conversation when we first looked 167 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: at the itinerary about how there was a bit less 168 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:18,439 Speaker 1: downtime than we've had on other trips. But it's partly 169 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: because unlike other trips where we have always been in 170 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:29,959 Speaker 1: a city, part of this trip is farther away from 171 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: and so they're like, it's it's not like when you're 172 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: in Barcelona and you could just say, oh, there's this 173 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: historic house right here that I'm going to go to 174 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: for the whole morning. A lot more of the things 175 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: where we will be outside of Reykievic like you would 176 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: need conveyance to get there. 177 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, which will. 178 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: Be our bus Reykievic is very walkable, but once we're 179 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:58,479 Speaker 1: outside of that that area, it gets a little bit trickier. Yeah, 180 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: which I'm still very excited to go there for reasons. Yes, 181 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: I have a lot of excitement for a lot of reason. 182 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: Its very excited. And uh, you know, none of us 183 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: are gonna hopefully have any horrible incidents we get poisoned 184 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:17,680 Speaker 1: by artsnake, yes, and you know, hopefully if there's any 185 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: volcano happening, it will be a volcano that is not 186 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: threatening anyone or disrupting things at that time. 187 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:27,559 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I you. 188 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: Know, have have acquaintances at this point in Iceland, and 189 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: I have reached out to them whenever there's been news 190 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 1: and it's all kind of like, no, no, everything's safe. 191 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 1: All the animals got evacuated. We're good, We're good, We're 192 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: used to this. We have plans in place now. I 193 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: really felt like when we were in Iceland back in 194 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, it did feel like people were very pragmatic 195 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: about the idea of volcanic activity. Yes, one hundred percent, 196 00:10:52,280 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 1: I would thinker anyway, that's Charles Francis Hall. One of 197 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: our episodes this week was on goods vun relition Engen, 198 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: which I have not pronounced exactly like German speakers say. 199 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: It also called Goods of the Iron Hand. And here's 200 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 1: the story of the journey of research into this. So 201 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: a lot of the time when I am sort of 202 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 1: doing a gut check of is there enough information on 203 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: somebody to do a podcast on them, do a basic 204 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: Google search. A lot of times when it's somebody lesser known, 205 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: A lot of the results will be websites that I 206 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: would not necessarily use as like a source for the episode, 207 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 1: but I've at least heard of, So for someone like 208 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 1: Goods vun relition gen, that might be something like the 209 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: website Badass of the Week, Right, I at least know 210 00:11:57,160 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: what this podcast is. 211 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 2: And so I had bookmarked a bunch of articles. 212 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 1: I was going back to them for sort of round 213 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 1: two of actually reading them, and there was one that 214 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: was one of the longer articles that I had bookmarked, 215 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: and I was like, this, this article just at a glance, 216 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: looks legit. What is this website? Though I've never heard 217 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:21,959 Speaker 1: of this website? And something about I forgot the name 218 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: of the little icon that shows up in the browser bar. 219 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: I was like, something about this icon is wrong to me. 220 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 1: So I go up to like, you know, I just 221 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 1: delete the part of the URL that is the article 222 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: to get like to the main site, and I was like, 223 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 1: this looks suspicious. 224 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 2: It was just the entry page. 225 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,199 Speaker 1: I clicked into the entry page, and I was like, oh, 226 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:53,079 Speaker 1: this is Holocaust denial, not like not not Holocaust denial, 227 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: as in the Holocaust didn't happen, which it absolutely did. 228 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: The Holocaust happened. It was more like the real victims 229 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: were the Germans who were ethnically cleansed. And I was 230 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:10,319 Speaker 1: just like, oh, this is not No, I'm not using 231 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: this as a source. And the vibe that I got 232 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 1: from this is that this was somebody's personal project that 233 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: that person had then sold to someone else. The person 234 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: who bought it is described in various news reporting as 235 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: a far right extremist who was convicted of child sexual 236 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: exploitation in twenty twenty two. And I was like, every no, 237 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,199 Speaker 1: absolutely not. Not only that, I'm going through my browser 238 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: history and deleting all of that because I do not 239 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: want programmatic ads targeting me based on all of this. 240 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 1: So I went back to doing research, and fairly late 241 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: in the process, I was like, it is weird to 242 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: me that I can't find an English language version of this. 243 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:02,079 Speaker 1: It seems like something somebody would have translated into English. 244 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: I found a number of different like German language editions. 245 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: I don't read German though, and I went to WorldCat 246 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:16,200 Speaker 1: put in you know, goods Von Relationship autobiography and set 247 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: the language to English. And this book came up that 248 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 1: was just published within the last few years, that wasn't 249 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: in almost any libraries. And I was like, something is 250 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: weird to me. Something's weird here, right, So I googled 251 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: the name of the publisher and it is a publisher 252 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: that publishes just straight up white nationalism, works by Hitler, 253 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: works by other Nazis. And that's when I said, Holly, 254 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: I have a weird thing to talk through in this episode, 255 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: because I there have been people we've talked about before 256 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: who are people that were kind of appropriated by white nationalists. 257 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: So people like Emily Hobhouse, her work in South Africa 258 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: got kind of co opted by white nationalists, white South 259 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: African nationalists to sort of like build a story of 260 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: like white people being the real victims in South Africa. 261 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: If we were going to never talk about things that 262 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: were appropriated by white nationalists. We could just never talk 263 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: about the entire Viking era or medieval Britain because that's 264 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: also been like co opted by white nationalists to kind 265 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: of tell a completely false story about like a totally 266 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: white society, neither of which those were. So you and 267 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: I talked about it a little bit, and I was like, Okay, 268 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: I think what I'm gonna do is we're going to 269 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: do the episode and we're going to talk about all this. 270 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: But if I find anything in the research that raises 271 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: any other suspicions for me, I'm out on this because 272 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: it my sense of this, having tried to look into it, 273 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: is that he is somebody that was sort of co 274 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: opted by white nationalists because of this sort of like 275 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: German freedom fighter fictionalized version of him and the fact 276 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: that there was an s s Panzer Grenadier unit named 277 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 1: after him in World War Two, also like the idea 278 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 1: of the iron hand that sure does lend itself to 279 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: some Nazi imagery, but reasons that I wanted to continue 280 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: to talk about him one where like we haven't talked 281 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: that much about the transition from medieval to Renaissance Europe. 282 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: He had a lot of interesting things that happened in 283 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: his life. That were things we had never really talked 284 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: about on Like we never talked about the Swabian League. 285 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: We don't have that much about the Holy Roman Empire, 286 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: and we don't have a lot that's about disability that 287 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: far back in history. Most of our disability history is 288 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: a lot more recent, and a lot of that has 289 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: to do with like what the expectations that his societies 290 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: have put on to say people, and a lot of 291 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 1: times disabled people just being written out of history. Yeah, 292 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 1: they are historically not considered worthy of being part of 293 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: the historical record, right, which right, And you know, a 294 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: lot of times in the time they were living sort 295 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 1: of forced into the background by societies that were like 296 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: we don't even want to see disabled people. So being 297 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: able to talk about somebody who had a disability and 298 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: was living in the sixteenth century, I felt like was important. 299 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 2: And so all of that landed on meeting. 300 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: Like here, we're going to do this episode and also 301 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:45,360 Speaker 1: acknowledged all of that. One other thing I did want 302 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:49,920 Speaker 1: to say is a lot of the development of prosthetics, 303 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:55,640 Speaker 1: especially like limb prosthetics in the US and Europe, has 304 00:17:55,680 --> 00:18:00,880 Speaker 1: followed war and battlefield injuries that soldiers have sustained right, 305 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,479 Speaker 1: so a lot of prosthetics development basically follows warfare. Vast 306 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: majority of prosthetics users in the US and Europe are 307 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 1: not military veterans. Like there's a whole sort of stereot 308 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:18,919 Speaker 1: not stereotype isn't exactly right. There are proportionately, you know, 309 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,439 Speaker 1: significant numbers of disabled veterans who have had some kind 310 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: of an amputation. But in terms of like the whole 311 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 1: of people who have had a limb amputated and may 312 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,239 Speaker 1: or may not now want a prosthesis like way out 313 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 1: numbered by people who like this amputation did not happen 314 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:37,680 Speaker 1: in any kind of combat. So I just want to 315 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: say that, yeah, I have I have a peppy thing 316 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:45,880 Speaker 1: that we can I'm so happy, which will be unsurprising 317 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: when I say what I'm going to say because it's 318 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: very hotlycentric. There are a lot of really really interesting 319 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: things going on in the ven diagram overlap of people 320 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:05,479 Speaker 1: often themselves wear prosthetic pieces, and the art world, okay, 321 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 1: and there are a lot of very cool things being made. 322 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: And one of my favorites I totally want to give 323 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:15,679 Speaker 1: a shout out it is this guy Trace who he 324 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 1: is on both TikTok and Instagram. His TikTok handle is 325 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: eat Prey Nub and he designs in three D prints 326 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: these incredibly cool pros theses, many of which are for cosplay, 327 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:32,879 Speaker 1: but a lot of which are just for fun. And 328 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: they're very, very beautifully designed, and he's amazing, Like he 329 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:40,159 Speaker 1: did one that turned his arm into a candy cane. 330 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:45,120 Speaker 1: He does a lot of pieces that work for cosplay, 331 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: things like Iron Man arms and stuff like that. But 332 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:51,120 Speaker 1: what I really love the most is that he printed 333 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: himself a pros thesis that has a Lego hand on 334 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 1: the end of it, and then printed lego accessories that 335 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:02,640 Speaker 1: he can put in it. Fun the smartest and most 336 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: charming engineering going on. 337 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it. 338 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 1: And he's very funny. So if you want to see 339 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 1: some really cool art that is also kind of tongue 340 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,640 Speaker 1: in cheek in many ways, Like there's a lightsaber one 341 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: that's really cool, check out his stuff. He's really incredible. There's, 342 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, the triton arm, like the the Aquaman style, 343 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: you know, not quite a trident, but he has that 344 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 1: hooky thing from like some of the Aquaman stuff is gorgeous, 345 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,959 Speaker 1: Like he just makes beautiful things, and I love, Yeah, 346 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: people are making beautiful art and sharing it, so Trace, 347 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: I kind of love love your work a lot, and 348 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: he's very, like I said, very very funny. So I 349 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: just love that there is this whole We talked specifically 350 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 1: about a lot of people and engineers who mean very 351 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: well creating prosthetic pieces that aren't the people that would 352 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: be wearing them, and there's not input necessarily from those people. 353 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 1: So I really like that this is like homegrown a 354 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:07,400 Speaker 1: person who actually understands how these implements work and need 355 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: to fit and need to be comfortable for him just 356 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 1: making his own on his three D printer. I think 357 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,200 Speaker 1: it's the coolest thing on earth. Somebody that I follow 358 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: on TikTok who I haven't seen as much content from lately, 359 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 1: and I don't know if it's because of the algorithm 360 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: or just she hasn't been as active lately. Her name 361 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: is Alexis and her account is called stump Kitchen. Yes, 362 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 1: and she yeah, she was born with a limb difference, 363 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: and so she's done some videos that are sort of 364 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: how she does various things like various household or grooming 365 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:42,679 Speaker 1: things or whatever, using either one of a couple of 366 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,439 Speaker 1: different processes that she has or her stump, and she 367 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 1: also does this stump cosplay where she makes up her stump. 368 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: She looks like different. I haven't seen those. I've seen 369 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 1: some of her kitchen stuff, but I have not seen those. Yeah, 370 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 1: So like just looking at what's on her profile right now, 371 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: she's got one that is the Grinch. There's one that 372 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 1: is Arthur. I feel like I saw like maybe a 373 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 1: Pikachu one one time. She will just she'll make up 374 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: her whole, her whole limb. She calls it her stump. 375 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 1: I don't know if that word is comfortable for everyone. 376 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: She has a limb difference, but like that's what she 377 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:27,199 Speaker 1: calls it. And she tells stories about like when she 378 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: was a child and her sister, who did not have 379 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 1: a limb difference, like sort of made a personality for 380 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: her arm. 381 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 2: It's I don't I. 382 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: Really I love her content, and you're what you just 383 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 1: described reminded me of it a little bit. I also 384 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 1: just realized that I left out one of the wilder 385 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,640 Speaker 1: moments in my research thing that was not about white 386 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: nationalism at all, which is that I had found a 387 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: reference to a book that was described in the catalog 388 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 1: as in English. That was goods fun relish Jin's autobiography, 389 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: and they had it in the university library where my 390 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: spouse works, and so I said, can you please get 391 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:16,679 Speaker 1: this book for me? He said yes and was like something. 392 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: He was like, something's weird about this catalog entry. I 393 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: was like, I know, I don't know what to tell you. 394 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: It's I just it's my only option forgetting this. So 395 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:29,360 Speaker 1: he goes to the shelf described in the catalog as 396 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: being in English, but it turned out only the intro 397 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: to the book was in English. This book is from 398 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 1: back in the nineteen fifties. And it turned out the 399 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: reason that the catalog entry seemed a little bit off 400 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,640 Speaker 1: is that there was no barcode to check it out. 401 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: It wasn't in the system at all. So when he 402 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: took it up to the circulation dusk check it out, 403 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,919 Speaker 1: they were like, oh, wow, this is a whole we 404 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: have a process for this. Yeah, I need to get 405 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,439 Speaker 1: someone who knows what knows how to do it. And 406 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,160 Speaker 1: so now I have this book still, which he brought 407 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: home in a plastic bag because it is so fragile, 408 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 1: along with a piece of paper with the numbers for 409 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: the barcode written out in longhand so that when it 410 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,640 Speaker 1: is returned to the library, the barcode can be affixed 411 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,439 Speaker 1: to it. Right. I bet they're also going to do 412 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: an update on the record, so somebody will pop out 413 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,400 Speaker 1: their AACR two manual for my library. 414 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 2: People. 415 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 1: You just perked up, I know, and then have to 416 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 1: do a new version of the mark record. I'm sure yeah, 417 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:37,199 Speaker 1: And there might be a little repair worked into it 418 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: if that's feasible, because there are. It's a very delicate book. Anyway, 419 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:49,679 Speaker 1: That is the whole saga of the story for this 420 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: week's podcast research from me Happy Happy Friday. I was like, 421 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 1: what day? That was a whole journey, and then I 422 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 1: forgot would day? It is Happy Friday. We'll be back 423 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: with a Saturday Classic tomorrow. We will have a brand 424 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: new episode on Monday. And whatever's coming up this next 425 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 1: couple of days for you, I hope it's all great 426 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 1: stuff you missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. 427 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 428 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,240 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.