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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at

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Speaker 1: noon and five pm Eastern on Apple Coarckley and Android

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Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: I'm Joe Matthew in Washington. This is Balance of Power,

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Speaker 2: the Monday edition. With a very busy day at the

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Speaker 2: White House today, starting earlier with the news conference that

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Speaker 2: we brought you live on Bloomberg. Now, of course the

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Speaker 2: President of South Korea bringing forth a number of issues,

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Speaker 2: as I said, and answering the President Trump's concerns that

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Speaker 2: he expressed earlier today on social media, having said on

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Speaker 2: truth social that he understood there was a purge or revolution.

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Speaker 3: That was going on in South Korea.

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Speaker 2: He brought this to the President in front of that

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Speaker 2: room full of reporters, and so he said through a

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Speaker 2: translator that it has not been long since Korea overcame

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Speaker 2: political turmoil following a coup by the former president. Says

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Speaker 2: there's an investigation by a special prosecutor appointed by the Assembly,

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Speaker 2: and says that prosecutor is not under his control. He

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Speaker 2: talked about US bases, having heard reports of roundups at

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Speaker 2: US basis, saying that there was no search and seizure

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Speaker 2: on American basis, but they did look into the chain

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Speaker 2: of command to try to learn more about this. The

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Speaker 2: President had said he heard about a lot of bad things.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if it's true or not. I'll be

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Speaker 2: finding out. Having suggested at the end of this conversation

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Speaker 2: that I'm sure it is a misunderstanding, we can at

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Speaker 2: least check that box. There's a lot more that could

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Speaker 2: come from this meeting. That was just the conversation with reporters.

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Speaker 2: They're going to have a working lunch now that could

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Speaker 2: zero in on trade. As President Trump spoke to his

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Speaker 2: positive relationship with Donali Kim Jong un were president, SHEI

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Speaker 2: kind of an interesting bit of color against this meeting

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Speaker 2: today and the potential for a working relationship with Japan.

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Speaker 2: I want to go to the White House now. Now

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg's Tyler kendallis on the north lawn. Having listened to

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Speaker 2: that full conversation, engaging here on behalf of Bloomberg, Tyler,

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Speaker 2: this is an important visit for this president.

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Speaker 3: What else do we learn?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he Joe a incredibly high stakes visit, and as

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Speaker 4: you outlined, it was a relatively friendly welcome for the

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Speaker 4: South Korean president given the stakes ahead of this. In

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Speaker 4: President Trump's previous comments on truth Social the President said

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Speaker 4: that he thinks the alliance between the US and South

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Speaker 4: Korea is great and that the country's relationship is warm.

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Speaker 4: He even perhaps joked that the South Korean president and

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Speaker 4: himself can travel together to China to meet Chinese President Jijingping.

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Speaker 5: Of course that did appear to be a joke.

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Speaker 4: It was met with laughter in the room, but it

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Speaker 4: does of course underscore really the heightened geopolitical ties here

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Speaker 4: how important an alliance South Korea is when it comes

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Speaker 4: to the US and countering tensions in that region. I

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Speaker 4: will point out that President Trump confirmed that he would

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Speaker 4: like to attend the APEX summit in South Korea happening

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Speaker 4: in October, and I bring that up because it has

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Speaker 4: long been speculated that that could be the potential site

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Speaker 4: for a Shi Trump meeting. Just continuing here, when it

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Speaker 4: comes to President Trump's comments around China, also a threatening

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Speaker 4: heightened tariffs against Beijing if they do not release more

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Speaker 4: of the magnets that we know have been holding up

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Speaker 4: the negotiation, so that gave us a little bit of

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Speaker 4: an insight into how those trade talks with Beijing are going.

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Speaker 4: But of course there are going to be focused on

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Speaker 4: trade when it comes to South Korea as well, because,

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Speaker 4: as you well know, Joe, South Korea had secured that

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Speaker 4: more preferential terrorf freight of fifteen percent on South Korean exports.

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Speaker 4: But ultimately we are still waiting on some of these

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Speaker 4: key details on what that trade framework is going to

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Speaker 4: look like. One of the big open questions here our

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Speaker 4: additional details on that three hundred and fifty billion dollar

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Speaker 4: investment pledge you did here both leaders really highlight this

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Speaker 4: idea that a large chunk of that is going to

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Speaker 4: go towards ship building. It's our understanding about one hundred

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Speaker 4: and fifty billion dollars worth of investment will go towards

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Speaker 4: that in the United States, but other details, including how

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Speaker 4: that fund's going to be structured, there seems to be

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Speaker 4: some discrepancies between the two trading partners, with South Korea

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Speaker 4: for example saying that this is going to be more

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Speaker 4: around loan guarantees instead of direct capital investment as just

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Speaker 4: one example there. Just lastly, Joe I'll leave you with

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Speaker 4: something that you also mentioned at the top, which are

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Speaker 4: ties with North Korea. Bloomberg News had reported earlier today

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Speaker 4: that a top official to the South Korean president was

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Speaker 4: planning to ask President Trump to reopen dialogue with North Korea,

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Speaker 4: something as you well heard, President Trump seemed open to,

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Speaker 4: saying himself that he has plans to meet with the

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Speaker 4: North Korean leader Kim Jong un in appropriate time.

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Speaker 2: So much to talk about here, Tyler. That was quite

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Speaker 2: a session. The President also was asked about Ukraine and

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Speaker 2: whether Vladimir Putin would make good on what seemed to

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Speaker 2: be a promise to meet with President Zelenski during the

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Speaker 2: Alaska summit. We have since heard from Serigi Lavrov that

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Speaker 2: there is no plan at the moment for that meeting

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Speaker 2: to occur. Trump said there could be big consequences if

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Speaker 2: they do not meet.

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Speaker 3: Do we have any sense of what he meant by that?

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Speaker 4: So this is actually a message, Joe, that President Trump

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Speaker 4: had reiterated from last week. He had threatened last week

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Speaker 4: that there would be big consequences if a bilateral then

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Speaker 4: trilateral meeting did not happen, and he said that that

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Speaker 4: could take the form of additional economic sanctions, but he

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Speaker 4: also said last week that this could take the form

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Speaker 4: of the US just doing nothing, stepping back and saying

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Speaker 4: that it is up to you to figure this path forward.

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Speaker 4: Because we heard the President say what we have often heard,

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Speaker 4: which is that it takes two to tango in his words,

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Speaker 4: when it comes to these negotiations, and he's really urging

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Speaker 4: Russian President Vladimir Putin to come to the negotiating table.

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Speaker 4: We know that a big sticking point here does appear

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Speaker 4: to be those security guarantees, which was a huge focus

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Speaker 4: of our discussion last week when we saw half a

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Speaker 4: dozen European leaders descend here to the White House and

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Speaker 4: try to show some sort of forward progress towards any

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Speaker 4: sort of a deal for peace in Ukraine. Our reporting

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Speaker 4: indicates that the Kremlin is asking to be directly involved

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Speaker 4: in what those security guarantees are going to look like

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Speaker 4: with Ukraine, which is obviously problematic for those talks going forward.

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Speaker 4: So President Trump now threatening big consequences if they do

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Speaker 4: not come to the negotiating table. We're going to have

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Speaker 4: to see what that timeline looks like. He's floated a

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Speaker 4: couple of weeks, a couple of times, but at the

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Speaker 4: end of the day, we're probably looking at perhaps some

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Speaker 4: heightened economic penalties. Whether or not that sanctions remains to

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Speaker 4: be seen, all right.

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Speaker 2: Tyler, Tyler Kendall on the north lawn of the White House.

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Speaker 2: We're always better having her there, and I appreciate the update, Tyler.

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Speaker 2: We could have talked about ten different stories, but that's

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Speaker 2: the way these things go when you bring in the

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Speaker 2: press corps. And nice to see them all in the

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Speaker 2: Oval Office getting answers to questions here live on Bloomberg,

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Speaker 2: Stay with us on Balance of Power. We'll have much

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Speaker 2: more coming up after this.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast Ketch

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Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm. He's Darren

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Speaker 1: on Almalcarclay and Android Otto with the Bloomberg Business Up.

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Speaker 1: Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch

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Speaker 1: us live on.

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Speaker 2: YouTube, talking policy that impacts the markets on a daily basis.

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Speaker 2: Of course, that includes Jackson Hole as well, and today's

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Speaker 2: market is a far cry from what we saw on Friday.

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Speaker 2: Remember the good feels on Friday. We went sliding into

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Speaker 2: the weekend feeling great. Maybe we'd set a new all

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Speaker 2: time high today because this is the pivot right. Jay

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Speaker 2: Powell finally said it at Jackson Hole. Fed beating next

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Speaker 2: month dows up hundreds of points unless you talk to

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Speaker 2: the smart people at Bloomberg Economics. Once again, the market

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Speaker 2: may have this a little bit off. Bloomberg Economics disagrees

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Speaker 2: with the reaction that we saw on Friday, and maybe

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Speaker 2: that speaks to the action that we're seeing today to

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Speaker 2: Jay Powell's speech, believing his comments in fact masked and

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Speaker 2: underlying hawkish signal. And as you get ready for a

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Speaker 2: whole bunch of interest rate cuts next month, listen to

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Speaker 2: Powell from Friday.

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Speaker 6: Here he is the stability of the unemployment rate and

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Speaker 6: other labor market measures allows us to proceed carefully as

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Speaker 6: we consider changes to our policy stance. Nonetheless, with policy

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Speaker 6: and restrictive territory, the baseline outlook and the shifting balance

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Speaker 6: of risks may warrant adjusting our policy stance.

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Speaker 2: Now, my man Stuart Paul was part of a five

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Speaker 2: name byline on this analysis, and I just I'll tell

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Speaker 2: you what. If you listen to this program, You've seen

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Speaker 2: it happen before. Bloomberg Economics is most often correct. Stuart

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Speaker 2: is with us right now. From World headquarters in New York.

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Speaker 2: Were you feeling this in the moment on Friday? Stuart saying,

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Speaker 2: what the heck is the market doing? Rallying like we

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Speaker 2: haven't seen in months.

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Speaker 3: Well, a lot of.

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Speaker 7: What was happening on Friday was short covering. Remember the

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Speaker 7: major data points that we had coming into Jackson, oh

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Speaker 7: in particular the week before were CPI and PPI, which

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Speaker 7: pointed to core inflation running at a pace of about

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Speaker 7: zero point three percent, the sort of thing that keeps

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Speaker 7: the FED uneasy. Now, of course, I heard the same

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Speaker 7: thing that everybody else heard, with j. Powell saying that

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Speaker 7: the balance of risk is shifting. But one thing that

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Speaker 7: we can keep in mind. There are really two things

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Speaker 7: we could keep in mind from Jackson Hole. One, all

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Speaker 7: of the other FED speakers that we heard from were

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Speaker 7: far more tentative and far more cautious in their tone,

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Speaker 7: one saying that we have a lot of data that

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Speaker 7: we need to see before the September meeting, and two

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Speaker 7: signaling that there likely won't be consecutive cuts that follow

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Speaker 7: even if we do see a cut in September. And

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Speaker 7: the second thing I want to flag is that a

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Speaker 7: rephrasing in the monetary policy framework from the broader Federal

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Speaker 7: Reserve was much more hawkish. It faded the idea that

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Speaker 7: the Fed needs to respond to undershooting on the employment

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Speaker 7: side of the man of its mandate. It adjusted some of

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Speaker 7: the phrasing around how it would respond a persistent undershooting

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Speaker 7: on the inflation side, and instead it said it would

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Speaker 7: not overshoot on inflation. In response, it was generally a

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Speaker 7: more hawkish skew to the monetary policy framework. So even

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Speaker 7: if we do see a cut in September, I don't

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Speaker 7: expect that we're going to see consecutive cuts.

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Speaker 2: After that, which is exactly what the market was hoping for. Right,

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Speaker 2: maybe we see two or three by the time it's done.

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Speaker 2: And all I kept hearing by the end of last

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Speaker 2: week Stuart was we're going to have a housing market

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Speaker 2: rebound that's going to be the next leg in our

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Speaker 2: economic growth story. Without those cuts, can that happen?

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Speaker 7: I think that the housing market is actually relatively well

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Speaker 7: insulated from the effect of restrictive monetary policy. It's actually

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Speaker 7: really interesting that prospective buyers, yes, are being hurt a

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Speaker 7: little bit by elevated mortgage rates, but mortgage rates are

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Speaker 7: going to prove relatively insensitive to interest rate cuts. The

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Speaker 7: FED control short term interest rates. Mortgage rates are benchmarks

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Speaker 7: based in the ten and thirty year bond. If the

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Speaker 7: Fed starts cutting rates too quickly, we'll actually see mortgage

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Speaker 7: rates and long term interest rates rising as inflation expectations rise.

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Speaker 7: So I wouldn't turn to the FEDS for hope that

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Speaker 7: we're going to see a supercharged housing market instead, and

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Speaker 7: also considering some of the data that we just heard

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Speaker 7: from Charlie Pellett, I think that the housing market is

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Speaker 7: going to continue facing headwinds. Home Builders are bloated with

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Speaker 7: inventories that could satisfy nine point two months worth of

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Speaker 7: sales at the current pace of new single family home sales,

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Speaker 7: and home prices are going to continue facing headwinds from there.

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Speaker 7: I think that if we do see interest rate cuts,

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Speaker 7: I think that there's actually going to be relatively little

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Speaker 7: economic consequence in the near term.

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Speaker 2: Interesting as always to spend time with Stuart Paul Stewart,

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much to find his work on the

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Speaker 2: terminal and online Bloomberg Economics. US economist Stuart Paul or

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Speaker 2: a little over our skis when it comes to the Fed,

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Speaker 2: I want to mention by the way. The President of

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Speaker 2: South Korea is just now arriving at the White House.

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Speaker 2: He'll be walking into the West Wing in the next

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Speaker 2: couple of moments with President Trump, and their bilateral meeting

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Speaker 2: will take place in the Oval a couple of minutes

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Speaker 2: after that, once they get reporters assembled and back in there.

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Speaker 2: There's a live view for you on YouTube of the

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Speaker 2: entrance to the West Wing where we've got the flag

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Speaker 2: set up, just waiting for the President and for the

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Speaker 2: motorcade to arrive. Color guard is set up in the

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Speaker 2: driveway as we speak. With the idea of potential trade

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Speaker 2: talks or of the finalizing of a deal in the

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Speaker 2: works here, but after what the President wrote on social media,

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Speaker 2: it's kind of difficult to tell where exactly we're going.

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Speaker 2: Suggesting a purge or revolution is somehow underway right now

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Speaker 2: in South Korea. This is something that they will be

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Speaker 2: talking about, and we will be bringing.

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Speaker 3: Those remarks to you live from the Oval Office.

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Speaker 2: This is one that could get a little chippy, maybe

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Speaker 2: not Zelenski level, but we'll find out together as we

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Speaker 2: always do live here on Balance of Power. Christopher Smart,

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Speaker 2: I'm guessing, was rattled last evening when the Marine Corps

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Speaker 2: helicopters took off from Boston Common. It was the Marine

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Speaker 2: Corps birthday up there. If you're with us on ninety

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Speaker 2: two nine in Boston, maybe you were.

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Speaker 3: This as well.

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Speaker 2: Christopher Smart from our Growth Group, managing partner, founder, former

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Speaker 2: Special Assistant to the President at the National Economic Council

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Speaker 2: in the Obama administration. Guests and the rafters were shaken,

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Speaker 2: their doctor. They had all the hardware on Boston Common.

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Speaker 2: Kind of a strange look for the downtown area, is

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Speaker 2: it not.

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Speaker 8: It was strange indeed, walking the dog on the Common

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Speaker 8: yesterday morning. It was surrounded by very large pieces of

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Speaker 8: the Marine's best aerial equipment. And as you say, the

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Speaker 8: takeoff was quite rattling as they returned to their base.

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Speaker 8: Maybe not as disruptive or disappointing as the Red Sox

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Speaker 8: final appearance Yankee Stadium in this series, but that's another

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Speaker 8: topic altogether.

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Speaker 2: Way to bring it home for time, Well, we've got,

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Speaker 2: you know, military equipment on the streets of Washington for

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Speaker 2: a whole different reason, doctor, I want to ask you

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Speaker 2: about the Federal Reserve. To start off here, Jay Powell

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Speaker 2: sure made people feel pretty good on Friday. The markets

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Speaker 2: were in rally mode. We're talking interest rate cuts. They

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Speaker 2: finally made the turn. Bloomberg Economics sees it differently, how about.

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Speaker 8: You, No, I think Bloomberg Economics once again probably has

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Speaker 8: it right. I think markets, of course, always tend to

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Speaker 8: overreact to Jackson Hole because it follows I think what

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Speaker 8: I've called in the past the Jackson Hole news hole.

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Speaker 5: There's been very little.

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Speaker 3: Guidance from the FED leading up.

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Speaker 8: To those meetings, and so the Chairman's speech becomes all

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Speaker 8: that much more important and that much more carefully dissected,

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Speaker 8: particularly in this moment with not just very important economic

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Speaker 8: cross currents, but obviously the pressure from the White House

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Speaker 8: on j Powell himself, on some of his FED colleagues.

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Speaker 8: There's just a lot of noise in the background. The

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Speaker 8: one thing I would say is, you know it, it's

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Speaker 8: pretty easy to do one cut or maybe even two

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Speaker 8: cuts between now and the end of the year. It's

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Speaker 8: next year. To my mind, that becomes much more complicated.

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Speaker 8: As Jay Powell said in his speech, the risks to

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Speaker 8: inflation right now, inflation is cooling, but the risks are

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Speaker 8: still to the upside. Meanwhile, on the job market, the

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Speaker 8: risks are to an even weaker picture there. So if

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Speaker 8: you sort of fast forward to January twenty twenty six,

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Speaker 8: it becomes a much more difficult set of cross currents

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Speaker 8: that the Fed's going to need to balance. And then

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Speaker 8: you add on top of that the change in personnel,

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Speaker 8: maybe continuing pressure from the White House, and I think

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Speaker 8: the markets are going to have to absorb a whole

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Speaker 8: lot of different balance, a whole lot of different signals

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Speaker 8: to balance.

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Speaker 2: Curious your thoughts on the framing that we're hearing from

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Speaker 2: the White House and the President's economic advisors when it

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Speaker 2: comes to a data dependent FED, which is of course

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Speaker 2: the cliche that you hear all the time in financial media. Well,

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Speaker 2: fed's data dependent check back at the next meeting, we

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Speaker 2: don't know. But in this case, the White House is

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Speaker 2: suggesting that data depends. Is the reason why j. Powell

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Speaker 2: is quote unquote too late, as the President calls him that,

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Speaker 2: in fact, it should be a visionary FED chair who's

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Speaker 2: trying to be ahead of the curve.

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Speaker 8: What is your thought on that, Well, there is no

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Speaker 8: FED chair who wants to be behind the curve.

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Speaker 3: I think that's pretty clear, of course.

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Speaker 5: And then you in the news.

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Speaker 8: Business will recognize that there's just a whole lot of

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Speaker 8: data and facts out there, and the trick is to

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Speaker 8: edit out and choose the most important and the most

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Speaker 8: salient data and headlines and developments.

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Speaker 3: And I think that is Christopher.

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Speaker 2: We're just seeing a live view of the President of

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Speaker 2: South Korea. Forgive my interrupting entering the West wing with

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Speaker 2: President Trump, and we'll let you continue your remarks. They're

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Speaker 2: going to head down the hall toward the oval. When

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Speaker 2: the reporters get inside, we'll bring you with them. Christopher,

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Speaker 2: continue your thoughts. Because I thought the point of the

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Speaker 2: FED was to be data dependent.

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Speaker 8: Well indeed, and it's really just a question of deciding

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Speaker 8: which data is the most important, are the most important

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Speaker 8: data streams to follow? I think you know if you

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Speaker 8: are looking at it. If there had been no political

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Speaker 8: pressure on the FED this over the past summer, in

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Speaker 8: the past recent months, for j. Powizer retire, for the

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Speaker 8: FED to get on with cutting rates, I think we'd

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Speaker 8: be looking at the markets and saying, look, the data

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Speaker 8: shows inflation's weekening a little bit, maybe not too much,

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Speaker 8: but you could you could grant yourself one or two

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Speaker 8: cuts now between now and the end of the year.

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Speaker 8: Given what you're seeing in the jobs market, I think

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Speaker 8: there's very little case to be made at all for

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Speaker 8: one hundred basis points or one hundred and fifty basis

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Speaker 8: points or the numbers that the President and his advisors

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Speaker 8: are talking about. So that, I think is what makes

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Speaker 8: the picture so much more complicated for markets tops or

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Speaker 8: let alone, for Jpowell FOMC.

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Speaker 2: I want to ask you about Intel, Christopher, your thoughts

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Speaker 2: on this as this Republican administration is being called socialist

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Speaker 2: for taking a ten percent stake in Intel, and I

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Speaker 2: want to be careful with this. Obviously, this is a

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Speaker 2: different scenario than general motors in the Great Recession. It's

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Speaker 2: a different scenario than Solindra, which we keep hearing about.

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Speaker 3: But in this case, is it conservative?

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Speaker 2: Is it capitalist for this government to be taking a

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Speaker 2: stake in Intel? By the way, knowing how much money

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Speaker 2: we've already given them for this fab in Ohio? The

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Speaker 2: White House sees this as a matter of fairness.

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Speaker 8: I think, well, this is a really hard one to interpret.

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Speaker 5: I think it is.

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Speaker 8: You know, if you imagined as Joe Biden or Barack

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Speaker 8: Obama making this move, they would be roasted live, I

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Speaker 8: think by Republican traditional Republican opponents. This is obviously not

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Speaker 8: a traditional Republican administration if you look at it on

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Speaker 8: the merits. I come from a school where government intervention,

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Speaker 8: government involvement in some of these large companies is not

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Speaker 8: necessarily a plus. Maybe we're in a world where, in particular,

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Speaker 8: for chips, Intel has been a struggling company for many years.

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Speaker 8: It's possible that the government's commitment helps both reinforce our

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Speaker 8: supply chains and bolsters others to invest in Intel. But

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Speaker 8: I think it's it's an open question as to whether

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Speaker 8: or not we can. You know, this on its own

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Speaker 8: will put Intel back on its feet to become a global,

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Speaker 8: global player in the semiconductor business.

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Speaker 2: President just said when a question was shouted at him

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Speaker 2: from the reporter in the driveway of the White House.

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Speaker 2: Is the president of South Korea entered the West Wing.

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Speaker 2: We're going to have a good meeting which may dispel

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Speaker 2: some concerns about what was going to.

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Speaker 3: Take place here.

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Speaker 2: But does that include taking steak in a Korean technology company?

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Speaker 8: Well, you know who knows at this stage, and I

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Speaker 8: guess we'll find out in the minutes.

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Speaker 3: Ahead and the hour ahead.

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Speaker 8: I just feel bad for the for President Lee's advisors

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Speaker 8: who are trying to brief him. By all accounts, he

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Speaker 8: has been working very hard to prepare for this meeting,

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Speaker 8: for this moment, including taking time rehearsing during his vacation

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Speaker 8: last week, and to.

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Speaker 5: Have had this curveball.

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Speaker 8: Thrown at them from the president's announcement earlier this afternoon

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Speaker 8: or earlier this morning. I think that was probably not

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Speaker 8: on anybody's bingo card in the Korean delegation.

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Speaker 3: No, I bet it wasn't.

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Speaker 2: As Christopher refers to the post on truth social and

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Speaker 2: he was asked about this in the Oval earlier today,

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Speaker 2: all caps, what is going on in South Korea seems

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Speaker 2: like a purge or revolution. We can't have that and

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Speaker 2: do business there, he writes. I am seeing the new

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Speaker 2: president today at the White House. Thank you for your

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Speaker 2: attention to this matter. You get three exclamation points on

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Speaker 2: that one. And it's very unclear exactly what he means

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Speaker 2: by this, but we have quite a bit of leverage

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Speaker 2: in this conversation.

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Speaker 3: Doctor.

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Speaker 2: Whether it's China right, whether it's the presence of American

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Speaker 2: troops on the peninsula, Donald Trump could make some news

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Speaker 2: here in a minute.

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Speaker 8: Well, I'm sure he will make news. I think you know,

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Speaker 8: there is a lot going on in Korea right now.

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Speaker 8: You know, for anybody studying history of the region, it

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Speaker 8: is remarkable. President Lye is just coming from a bilateral

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Speaker 8: meeting in Tokyo. The relationship between Korea and Japan has

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Speaker 8: historically been fraught. Of course, it's been a high priority

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Speaker 8: for all US administrations to try and reconnect those two countries,

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Speaker 8: as we know, together with the United States try and

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Speaker 8: create a strategy to balance China's growing military power.

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Speaker 3: There's a trade deal.

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Speaker 8: Going on, as you mentioned earlier with your colleagues where Japan,

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Speaker 8: where Korea has committed to invest I think it's three

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Speaker 8: hundred and fifty billion dollars in the US, including in shipbuilding.

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Speaker 8: In return for that, they were able to match auto

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Speaker 8: tariffs that the Japanese government was able to secure at

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Speaker 8: fifteen percent. So on paper, at least, it looks like

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Speaker 8: a very good deal for Korea in the context of

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Speaker 8: what other countries have been getting. And then, of course

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Speaker 8: there's the North Korean wildcard, where President Lee has been

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Speaker 8: trying to or hopes to make progress warming the relationship

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Speaker 8: with the North. President Trump, as you recall, had a

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Speaker 8: very high stake summit with President Kim in his first term.

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Speaker 8: That led nowhere unclear whether the president President Trump will

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Speaker 8: want to re engage with President Kim given what's going

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Speaker 8: on in the.

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Speaker 3: Putin Russia front.

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Speaker 8: But as I say, there are a lot of different,

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Speaker 8: very important, very high stakes questions to be resolved, and

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Speaker 8: this last minute tweet on behalf on the part of

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Speaker 8: the president kind of adds a whole new dimension that

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Speaker 8: I'm not sure probably was designed to maybe throw the

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Speaker 8: Korean delegation off balance a little bit as he tries

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Speaker 8: to secure what he wants to secure from.

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Speaker 3: This meeting, something we've seen before.

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Speaker 2: Great to talk to, doctor Christopher Smart as always, Doc,

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Speaker 2: thank you so much. Enjoy Boston. This is the sweet spot.

441
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:42,680
Speaker 2: This is the best time of year.

442
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

443
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,439
Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on

444
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 1: Apple Cockway and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App.

445
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

446
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,640
Speaker 1: flagship New York station Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg.

447
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:03,320
Speaker 3: As we consider.

448
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 2: The potency of the Sandwich Guy, I wonder what Charles

449
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,680
Speaker 2: Done is doing right now on this Monday in August,

450
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,360
Speaker 2: having lost his job a couple of weeks ago. Well

451
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 2: it was just about a week ago, after he threw

452
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,399
Speaker 2: a sandwich at a federal officer here in Washington, d C.

453
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 2: Maybe you heard about this, maybe actually saw it when

454
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 2: it happened. This guy running through the streets looked like

455
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:27,679
Speaker 2: maybe he'd had a little fun that evening he got

456
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 2: face to face with a federal officer and started screaming

457
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 2: at him to get out of the city after he

458
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 2: threw a subway sandwich at the officer, a CBP agent

459
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 2: who was patrolling Metro Transit police alongside Metro police in

460
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 2: Northwest d C. About a week ago, Sandwich Guy was arrested.

461
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 2: The sandwich Guy also lost his job at the Department

462
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 2: of Justice, and Sandwich Guy has become an icon. Are

463
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,439
Speaker 2: you seeing this on YouTube? They're showing a bit protests

464
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:03,120
Speaker 2: with subway sandwiches holding them in the air. And look

465
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,919
Speaker 2: at the murals there in DC. This is part of

466
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:07,719
Speaker 2: what you see when you walk around here now, not

467
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,879
Speaker 2: just uniformed federal officers and National Guard troops, but they

468
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 2: are the sandwich guy in a Banksy style mural in

469
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 2: Adams Morgan. They're showing up all over the place. And

470
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 2: if you want to go Google it now you can

471
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 2: buy any number of T shirts featuring Sandwich Guy or

472
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:30,639
Speaker 2: just the Sandwich Free. DC whistles are going out and

473
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 2: the murals are making their way around. This is big

474
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 2: for Etsy, right they sell all the impromptu T shirts.

475
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 2: Producer James not with us today is out trying to

476
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:41,200
Speaker 2: get some Sandwich Guy T shirts.

477
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 3: He'll be back tomorrow.

478
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:44,399
Speaker 2: But it brings us to the matter at hand, and

479
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 2: that is, of course, the deployment of federal law enforcement

480
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 2: and yes, National Guard troops on the streets of American cities.

481
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 2: The federal city is one thing. The President has a

482
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,160
Speaker 2: certain amount of leeway here when dealing with the home

483
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 2: rule law as it exists in Washington, d C. Other

484
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 2: cities in actual states become a bit more complicated. And

485
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 2: we're looking at you, Illinois, because the President says that

486
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 2: Chicago is likely next.

487
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:10,640
Speaker 3: This is what he said a short time ago.

488
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 9: I made the statement that next should be Chicago, because,

489
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 9: as you all know, Chicago's a killing fields right now,

490
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 9: and they don't acknowledge it, and they say we don't

491
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 9: need them.

492
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:24,479
Speaker 3: Freedom. Freedom.

493
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 9: He's a dictator. He's a dictator. A lot of people

494
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 9: are saying maybe we like a dictator. I don't like

495
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 9: a dictator. I'm not a dictator. I'm a man with

496
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 9: great common sense. I think we should really let them

497
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 9: have this city, let their city go to hell, and

498
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 9: when they come and beg us to help. The only

499
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 9: problem is we want to save it for the big because.

500
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 3: The people want us there. Add Baltimore.

501
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 2: As he mentioned on social media yesterday, I got Wes

502
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 2: Moore all worked up about it.

503
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 3: He said.

504
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 2: New York is probably on the list as well, and

505
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 2: they may just go back to LA. It's really interesting, though,

506
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 2: when you consider sandwich guy and you start thinking about

507
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 2: the types of crime that are being fought on the

508
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:13,159
Speaker 2: streets of a place like DC. Devlin Barrett at the

509
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 2: New York Times spent a day over at the Federal courthouse,

510
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 2: not very far from where I'm sitting here, to see

511
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 2: what kind of cases are coming in. Who are they arresting,

512
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 2: What did they do wrong other than throwing salami sandwiches?

513
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,919
Speaker 3: It was salami, we understand quote.

514
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,920
Speaker 2: One man had been arrested over an open container of alcohol,

515
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 2: another had been charged with threatening the president after delivering

516
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 2: a drunken outburst, and one defendant's gun case so alarmed

517
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 2: prosecutors that they intend to drop the case. We also

518
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 2: know that the White House is sending out video cruise

519
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,400
Speaker 2: to get footage of the troops and the federal police

520
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 2: cracking down and making arrests, because, of course, a lot

521
00:26:55,000 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 2: of this is about optics and deterrence, if you ask

522
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 2: the administration. And that's where we start today with our

523
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 2: political panel. Rick Davis is back Bloomberg Politics contributor, Republican

524
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 2: strategist and partner at Stone Court Capital, alongside Roger Fisk,

525
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 2: former special advisor to President Barack Obama. And yes by

526
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 2: that I mean democratic strategists. Gentlemen, it's great to see

527
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 2: you both. Welcome back to Bloomberg. Here we go again, Rick,

528
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 2: I don't know your thoughts on sandwich guy here, but

529
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 2: what point could the president be over his skis on this?

530
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 2: He's right, a lot of people support this. This is

531
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,880
Speaker 2: playing well in terms of polling, at least outside of Washington, DC.

532
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 2: People like to see the crackdown, including some people who

533
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 2: do live here. But if this includes Chicago, New York

534
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 2: and other cities, when does the blowback come.

535
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 10: Yeah, it's kind of hard to tell what kind of

536
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 10: blowback would come. But I would say, just for the record,

537
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 10: it is disrespectful to society at large and the police

538
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:58,120
Speaker 10: and law enforcement to do things like throw sandwiches at him.

539
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 10: We can't before. That can't be a symbol of liberation.

540
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,400
Speaker 10: We rue the day that we start to lose respect

541
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,400
Speaker 10: for law enforcement, regardless who the president is and regardless

542
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 10: of what orders they've been given. These are good people

543
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 10: who serve their communities and they put their life on

544
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:17,919
Speaker 10: the line when they show up for work every morning.

545
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:22,439
Speaker 10: So you know, to me, that's a no brainer. We

546
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 10: should not glorify sandwich Man two. This is an amazingly

547
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:32,199
Speaker 10: difficult issue, I think for Democrats to grapple with because

548
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 10: there are severe limitations to their appeal to voters if

549
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 10: you look at it politically. On the issues of law

550
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 10: and order, it's been a major bone in their contention

551
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 10: second only maybe the immigration, and no real work has

552
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 10: been done from what I can tell, to try and

553
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 10: firm up post riots of two thousand, their position on

554
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 10: law and order, and SOUMP is having a field day

555
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 10: with this one.

556
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 5: Let's assume that he.

557
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 10: Actually believes that there's federal intervention can help save lives

558
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 10: and make communities peaceful. That may be a big give,

559
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 10: but let's just take it for a second and say,

560
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 10: why in the world do you want to make it

561
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 10: a political issue. If you're a Democratic governor or mayor

562
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 10: of a big city, you got to find a way

563
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 10: to manage it. And actually, I think Mayor of District

564
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 10: Columbia has done a pretty good job of that. But

565
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 10: Democrats writ large are going to be faced with this

566
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 10: issue in the midterm elections. They've mishandled it in the past,

567
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 10: and they got to find a new way to approach it,

568
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 10: just like immigration.

569
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 2: Roger, You've lived in this city for some time, and

570
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 2: I believe you still do when you hear Wes Moore says,

571
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 2: get Baltimore out of your mouth.

572
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 3: How do you think Democrats are handling this?

573
00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 11: Well, First, I want to associate myself entirely with Rick's point.

574
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 11: No one should be throwing anything at law enforcement officers

575
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 11: or celebrating anyone that does, because it doesn't take much

576
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 11: imagination to think if a projectile is coming at you,

577
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 11: it has to be treated obviously worst case scenarios. So

578
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 11: I completely agree with Rick on that. I do think

579
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 11: in the last ten or fifteen years, and it dovetails

580
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 11: with immigration as well, that Democrats have missed the mark

581
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 11: on crime when it was actually something that they pulled

582
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 11: very well on in the nineties, specifically the Welfare Reform

583
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 11: Bill of ninety six and some of those things that

584
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 11: happened during the Clinton re elect that helped him pivot

585
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 11: back towards the center. That's the genesis of the modern

586
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 11: community police and grants and things like that that have

587
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 11: long since petered out, by the way. But and Joe,

588
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 11: you're the premise of your question is absolutely right, which

589
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 11: as Democrats need to thread this very very carefully because

590
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 11: they need to come off as engaged and aware and

591
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 11: acknowledging that that crime is an issue for those suburban

592
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 11: swing voters. But then they can't lean into it so

593
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 11: much that it can be portrayed as the backlash that

594
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 11: President Clinton got and Secretary of Clinton then paid the

595
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 11: price for an in her presidential campaign, which was a

596
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 11: perception on the part of minority urban communities that they

597
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 11: had gone too far. So this is going to be

598
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 11: difficult and it's going to require much more art than science.

599
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 3: Rick.

600
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 2: The big headline in the last twenty four hours has

601
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 2: been the addition of weapons here in Washington DC National

602
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 2: Guard members are now carrying weapons and detentions quote may

603
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 2: occur leading to arrests. A statement from the administration over

604
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 2: the weekend which may confuse the involvement of the military

605
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 2: here on city streets. But they're carrying M four carbine rifles,

606
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 2: M seventeen pistols. Should this be a big deal? Is

607
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,959
Speaker 2: this a cause of concern for you? Or the new

608
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 2: National Guard should be carrying guns.

609
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 3: That's what they do, well, that's what they're trained to do.

610
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 10: And so anytime you deploy National guardsmen, you are deploying

611
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 10: people who are trained in the use of those weapons

612
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 10: and are used to carrying them. Right, it's actually a

613
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 10: bit of a duck out of water, if I could

614
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 10: say that, you know, to have them on the streets

615
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 10: of Washington fighting crime without the ability to protect themselves.

616
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 10: That being said, I thought even a bigger issue was

617
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 10: the President's executive order on creating a specialized unit within

618
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 10: the National Guard that would be used for these kind

619
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 10: of urban operations. And that creates sort of a permanent capacity,

620
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 10: not just one of these one off things. We're going

621
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 10: to sell send one hundred troops to La you know,

622
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 10: a couple hundred to Washington, d C.

623
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 3: More to Chicago.

624
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 10: This would actually create a training and command structure around

625
00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 10: the use of National Guards people in urban environments, and

626
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 10: so the exception now will become the rule. But the

627
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 10: really interesting thing that he indicated today as relates to

628
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 10: our earlier conversation, Roger, I think was spot on with

629
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 10: the Democratic political conundrum on law and order, is Gee,

630
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,479
Speaker 10: maybe we ought to have Congress vote on this right

631
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 10: because what he wants isn't to pass that bill. He

632
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 10: probably has authority to do it as president, he wants

633
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 10: Democrats to vote against it going into the midterms, and

634
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 10: I thought that was a pretty shrewd move on his part.

635
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 2: Well, if that's the political constructs here, Roger, Democrats have

636
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 2: a lot to think about. I will note, as CBS

637
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 2: wrote as well, following some of the National Guard troops

638
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 2: around to see what they were doing. Seen in many

639
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 2: cases with side arms as they were patrolling at Union Station,

640
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 2: the big train station here near the Capitol. Some troops

641
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 2: have fed squirrels, it says. One Guard member helped a

642
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 2: woman carry her belongings down the stairs and a train station.

643
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 2: Others have been seen taking photos with asers by standing around, chatting,

644
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 2: drinking coffee talking with tourists, Roger, does that reinforce the

645
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 2: idea that this is in fact about optics and not

646
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 2: about law enforcement.

647
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 11: Well, the whole idea that they're parked down along the mall.

648
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 11: I guess policing how much catch up people put on

649
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 11: their hot dogs and things like that seems to be

650
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 11: a waste of time. If only there was a Department

651
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 11: of Government efficiency that could look at this kind of

652
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 11: usage of manpower and equipment. I want to touch on

653
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 11: one element of Rick's answer and your question about being armed,

654
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 11: because it's a deadly serious one. No one questions that

655
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 11: the National Guard is trained in the use of their firearms,

656
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 11: but what they're lacking is and one of the big

657
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 11: emphasis in urban policing now is developing the skills to

658
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 11: de escalate situations. So a lot of what police officers

659
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,840
Speaker 11: focus on now is keeping things from a boiling point,

660
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 11: trying to bring in a female officer if it's a

661
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 11: domestic situation, so that they can split a husband and

662
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 11: a wife and get them comfortable talking to the law

663
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 11: enforcement officers that are trying to intervene. All these things

664
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 11: that are based on DS lace and search and seizure procedures,

665
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 11: all these different things that the National Guard is not

666
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 11: trained to do, and we have a tendency in this culture.

667
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:20,800
Speaker 11: We do it with nurses, we do it with teachers,

668
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 11: and we do it with cops, is to put people

669
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 11: in situations where they're not trained to either be a

670
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 11: mental health counselor in schools, or a first responder for

671
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 11: a teacher, or.

672
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 3: Any number of things.

673
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 11: And I don't think that we're putting the National Guard

674
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 11: in a situation where they can actually exercise their skills

675
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,919
Speaker 11: because they're not necessarily trained to do anything other than

676
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 11: go straight to that worst case scenario, which is when

677
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 11: a weapon does need to come out. So largely I

678
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 11: think it's performative. I can see obviously the political benefit

679
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 11: that the President is reaping from it, but similar to

680
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 11: almost to his tweet about the South Korean president, one wonders,

681
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 11: kind of what is the framework here, what's the endgame?

682
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 11: What's the life cycle of this? And all of this

683
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 11: remains undefined. Is it a month, is it a year?

684
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:08,760
Speaker 11: Is it five years?

685
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 12: Like?

686
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 3: How long does this go on?

687
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 11: And those are the things that I think reflect the

688
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 11: lack of a programmatic policy corps to him as an

689
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 11: individual and the administration writ.

690
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 2: Large a great conversation with Roger Fisk and Rick Davis.

691
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 2: Stay with us on Balance of Power. We'll have much

692
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 2: more coming up after this.

693
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

694
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on

695
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: Apple Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App.

696
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

697
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:50,800
Speaker 1: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

698
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 2: We've been spending time listening to the President here. Got

699
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 2: a little bit off course in the conversation that we

700
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 2: were having on Balance of Power, because you never know

701
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 2: what's going to come up in the Oval Office. But

702
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 2: as you heard him professing the power of American energy

703
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 2: when asked about a potential deal involving LNG with the

704
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 2: South Koreans, he talked about oil and gas in particular.

705
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 2: But there, of course remains a massive need for electricity,

706
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 2: electric power, renewable power. Here, I say, as data centers

707
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 2: sprout up out of the earth like weeds in this country,

708
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 2: enter Governor Spencer Cox's operation Gigawatt. If you were with

709
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:30,959
Speaker 2: us a couple of months ago, you've actually heard about

710
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 2: this project that aims to create a consortium and an

711
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 2: ecosystem that will eventually bring more advanced nuclear power to

712
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 2: states like Utah and other states throughout the West. Operation

713
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 2: Gigawatt to identify and assess sites for a potential advanced

714
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 2: nuclear plant. They want to have that sighted and chosen

715
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 2: by the end of this year, by the end of

716
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, so construction can begin in the year ahead.

717
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 2: You heard our conversation with Governor Cox and the CEO

718
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 2: of valor Atomics, and we have a different individual from

719
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:10,879
Speaker 2: that future ecosystem who is with us today alongside the governor. First,

720
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 2: let's introduce Spencer Cox, the governor of Utah. It's great

721
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,280
Speaker 2: to see you against Sir, welcome back to Bloomberg TV

722
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 2: and Radio. And Chris levec is with us as well,

723
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 2: the CEO of Terra Power, which is working on an

724
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 2: advanced nuclear reactor that would be.

725
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 3: Cited in Utah.

726
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 2: Gentlemen, I'd like to ask you both about how all

727
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 2: this is going to work and Governor why we're in

728
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 2: fact adding another name to this list. What does this

729
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 2: mean today to reaching that new level of power in Utah?

730
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 5: Well, you set the table very well.

731
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 13: Operation Gigawat is about doubling the energy production in the

732
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,919
Speaker 13: state of Utah, something that we need. If you care

733
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 13: about economic progress in our country, if you care about

734
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 13: national security, and if you care about just prosperity in general,

735
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 13: we have to in the environment. If you care about

736
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 13: the environment, you have to leave a nuclear power and

737
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 13: we do. And so we are setting up that ecosystem

738
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 13: so that the private sector will have the opportunity to

739
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:11,959
Speaker 13: bring the latest inventions, to bring the best technology to bear,

740
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 13: and terror Power is one of those technologies they're building

741
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 13: right now.

742
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 5: And the only construction.

743
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 13: Nuclear capabilities happening in our country is happening with terror Power.

744
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 13: We're so excited to partner with Chris and his team,

745
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 13: and we truly believe that what President Trump has been

746
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 13: talking about in the Oval Office today is going to

747
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 13: happen right here in Utah.

748
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,360
Speaker 2: Chris, I'd love to hear about what you are working

749
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 2: on at Terra Power because it's a little bit different

750
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:41,720
Speaker 2: than some of the other nuclear technology that our viewers

751
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:46,439
Speaker 2: and listeners are probably used to. Natrium reactors are your

752
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 2: specialty that use liquid sodium instead of water as a coolant.

753
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,240
Speaker 2: Does that make them safer or more dangerous.

754
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 14: Well, it certainly makes them safer and more economic as well.

755
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:02,280
Speaker 14: Thanks for having me, Joe, and thanks to Governor Cox

756
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 14: really for your leadership with Operation Gigawat. And of course

757
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,319
Speaker 14: we already heard that the Trump administration is providing very

758
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 14: strong support for nuclear and advanced nuclear energy, which is

759
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 14: the form that Natrium takes.

760
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:20,359
Speaker 12: You know, I've spent my whole career.

761
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 14: In nuclear energy, beginning in the Navy, and this is

762
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:26,800
Speaker 14: an industry that the US created decades ago. It provides

763
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 14: twenty percent of our electricity. But the fact is the

764
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 14: US had fallen behind in the last few years. China

765
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 14: and Russia have many more new builds than US, and

766
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:41,720
Speaker 14: with leadership from folks like Governor Cox, we're now prioritizing

767
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 14: and advanced nuclear energy. It is very important for us

768
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 14: to move to new technologies like the Natrium reactor, because

769
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 14: they will be cheaper and safer than today's plants. Today's

770
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 14: plants are quite safe, but if we look at a

771
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 14: massive upscale, it's really important for us to move to

772
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 14: the new technologies. China and Russia certainly are the Natreum reactor.

773
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 14: It's still a fission reactor. We break uranium atoms to

774
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 14: release a lot of heat and boil water to make

775
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:15,439
Speaker 14: steam and drive turbines to make electricity the old fashioned way.

776
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 14: But by cooling the reactor with liquid sodium, it allows

777
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 14: us to have a low pressure plant, which is going

778
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 14: to be safer, it's going to require much less steel

779
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 14: and concrete.

780
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 12: Another really important feature of the reactor.

781
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 14: Is that we have built in energy storage, and this

782
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 14: is going to be really important in the Mountain West

783
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 14: where you do have quite quite a bit of renewables

784
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 14: that you have to balance out, and built in storage

785
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,760
Speaker 14: allows us to boost the energy output of the natrium

786
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 14: reactor throughout the day as the wind and the sun

787
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 14: come and go, which is, you know, a limitation of renewables.

788
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 14: So natrium is a great balance to that. We're so

789
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 14: excited to announce with the State of Utah and with

790
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 14: Flagshift Companies today a memorandum of understanding to examine Utah

791
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 14: sites for natrium deployment. So we'll be looking at multiple

792
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 14: sites in Utah for their potential to host a natreum reactor.

793
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 14: As Governor Costs mentioned, we're already in the state of

794
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 14: Wyoming building our first reactor there.

795
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 12: So we're very happy to be in the Mountain West, all.

796
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 2: Right, Chris, Well, I mean that's a heck of an elevator, patient, Governor,

797
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 2: we're talking about some pretty esoteric technology here, using gravity

798
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 2: and thermal convection to enable passive cooling in this natrium reactor.

799
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 3: Last time you were on.

800
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 2: With this, Governor, you talked about a whole different approach

801
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 2: to these small size, micro scale reactors. Do you understand

802
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 2: you becoming an expert on nuclear science or are you

803
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 2: just calling the smart guys to do the work?

804
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 5: Well, well, a little bit of both for sure.

805
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 13: In fact, just last week I was at MIT with

806
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:01,839
Speaker 13: one of the nuclear physicists there having these conversations, and

807
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:02,439
Speaker 13: that's the thing.

808
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 5: We're betting on all of these technologies.

809
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:08,879
Speaker 13: And truly, as Chris mentioned, the United States did lead

810
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 13: the world when it comes to nuclear technology, and then

811
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 13: we made a very bad decision. We decided basically since

812
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 13: nineteen seventy five, the year I was bored that we

813
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 13: weren't going to bet on nuclear the rest of the

814
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 13: world has moved ahead of us, and that's a huge mistake.

815
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 13: Right now, as we are in an energy arms race.

816
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 13: You mentioned the data centers and AI arms race, and

817
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 13: we have to win. We can't lose this one. But

818
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 13: we don't have to compromise on safety either. We can

819
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 13: do both of those things.

820
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 5: And the way you.

821
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 13: Get better with this technology is to start building it.

822
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,320
Speaker 13: That's what we haven't been doing over the last fifty

823
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 13: years is actually doing the thing that we know we

824
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 13: can do. We have the best scientists, we have the

825
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 13: best innovators in the world, and Utah is betting on

826
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 13: them and the country needs that desperately right now.

827
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 2: Really interesting, Chris, Let's say you get a site by

828
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 2: the end of the year, that's your plan, by the

829
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 2: end of twenty twenty five, how long would it take

830
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 2: to have a natrea reactor up and running.

831
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 5: Yes, Joe, we.

832
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 14: Could mobilize a site shortly after that because we've made

833
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,319
Speaker 14: a lot of progress with the Nuclear Regulatory Commission in

834
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 14: licensing that first plant in Wyoming.

835
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 12: Uh.

836
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 14: Then we're we're looking at about a three year construction

837
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:20,479
Speaker 14: duration for for natrium reactors, which is which is much

838
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 14: shorter than today's technologies.

839
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 12: That require all of the steel and concrete.

840
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 14: So it's yet another reason for us to move forward

841
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 14: with advanced technology. You know, and I do want to

842
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 14: point out we're not only supplying you know, AI and

843
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 14: you know, important energy security demands in the US, but

844
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 14: you know, with leadership of people like Governor Cox, we're

845
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 14: also saying, if we can prove out this technology here,

846
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 14: you know, we can then export the technology where uh,

847
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 14: you know, nations that are hungry for electricity are inevitably

848
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 14: going to be shopping for nuclear and we need to

849
00:44:55,760 --> 00:45:01,239
Speaker 14: offer a US technology in competition with Russia and China.

850
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 12: Who will be peddling nuclear energy around the world.

851
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 2: Governor there's a headline in Washington today that the EPA

852
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 2: is pulling almost sixty two million dollars in solar grants

853
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 2: from the state of Utah. Does that make your life

854
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:19,320
Speaker 2: more difficult when you're pursuing all of the above strategy.

855
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 13: Well, it definitely doesn't. Doesn't help. And look, we are

856
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 13: in all of the above state. We do have an

857
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,400
Speaker 13: immense amount of sunshine here, and we want to take advantage.

858
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 5: Of solar for sure, and solar with batteries.

859
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 13: But I just don't think most people comprehend the amounts

860
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:39,359
Speaker 13: of power that are going to be needed, that are

861
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 13: needed right now. Look, Look, the entire state of Utah

862
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 13: runs on about four gigawatts of electricity. We have one

863
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 13: data center campus that would operate on four gigawatts of electricity.

864
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 13: I mean that's that's over one hundred years worth of

865
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 13: electricity production and development in the state of Utah.

866
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 5: And they need that kind of power right now. So

867
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 5: we need all of it.

868
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 13: We need the solar, We need the coal that is

869
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 13: still burning in Utah, the cleanest burning coal anywhere in

870
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 13: the world. We need the natural gas. Unfortunately, we have

871
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 13: a lot of that too, and we have to bet

872
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 13: on nuclear, and so that's what we're doing. We can't

873
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 13: do nuclear overnight. It is going to take a few years,

874
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 13: but we can certainly increase that time, the production time,

875
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 13: the development time, and then actually getting that product out

876
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 13: to consumers. We been short sighted. There is an abundance

877
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 13: of energy out there. We're the ones making decisions to

878
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:36,840
Speaker 13: hold that back. Those decisions are now changing in a

879
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 13: bipartisan way, and I'm so happy to see it. I'm

880
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 13: so happy to hear blue state governors that are talking

881
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 13: about energy development again in ways that they haven't in

882
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 13: the past. Let's not make these false choices. Let's work

883
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 13: on the solar side, Let's work on the nuclear side.

884
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 13: And let's get it done.

885
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,800
Speaker 2: Well, that's a really interesting answer. I guess these grants

886
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:56,839
Speaker 2: sixty two million dollars worth. They're a little more than

887
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 2: a year role. This goes back to May of twenty four.

888
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 2: Would you ask for these grants to be restored and

889
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:04,720
Speaker 2: what does it mean for people paying their bills each month?

890
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 13: Well, look again, we'll look at those grants and what

891
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 13: each one of those was for.

892
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:12,760
Speaker 5: I'm going through that review process right now.

893
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 13: We do know that there was money that was granted

894
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:16,879
Speaker 13: that is going to be spent on things that aren't

895
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 13: going to help in the long term. And if we

896
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:20,399
Speaker 13: can divert that money in a way that will get

897
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 13: us a better product, that will get us more that

898
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 13: will again help to lower prices, that's all I care

899
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 13: about right now. I think it's a mistake to get

900
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 13: in these fights where we're denigrating one technology over the other.

901
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 13: We should again be trying to lift all of these

902
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 13: technologies because they do all.

903
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 5: Play a role. And certainly solar is going to play

904
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 5: a role in Utah.

905
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,760
Speaker 13: It is right now and it will continue in the future,

906
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,719
Speaker 13: but it can't be the only role. We had one

907
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 13: administration before that was trying to stop us from using

908
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 13: the technologies that we have that exist.

909
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:56,240
Speaker 5: Now with coal and natural gas. That was a terrible mistake.

910
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 13: I want to make sure we don't swing the pendulum

911
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 13: too far and start tearing down other technologies that are

912
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 13: going to help us well into the future.

913
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:06,319
Speaker 2: I hear you, well, I don't know who you're going

914
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 2: to show up with next, Governor, but I really appreciate

915
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 2: the conversation. Spencer Cox, the Republican governor of Utah. Chris Levec,

916
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 2: president and CEO of a company called Terra Power.

917
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 3: Check it out.

918
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,320
Speaker 2: These new reactors they're working on might help to answer

919
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:20,920
Speaker 2: some of the questions that we've been asking.

920
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:28,360
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast.

921
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 2: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify,

922
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:34,799
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find

923
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 2: us live every weekday from Washington, DC at New Time

924
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 2: Eastern at Bloomberg dot com.