1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: M h. Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, 2 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all 3 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: the small decisions we can make to become the best 4 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 1: possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy Hard 5 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more 6 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: information or to find a therapist in your area, visit 7 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: our website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While 8 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, 9 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: it is not meant to be a substitute for relationship 10 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: with a licensed mental health professional. Hey y'all, thanks so 11 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: much for joining me for Session to seventeen of the 12 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: Therapy be for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get into the 13 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 1: episode right after a word from our sponsors. Concession sixty 14 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: of the podcast, Dr Donna oriole Will, author of Cocoa 15 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: Butter and Hair Grease, joined us to discuss colorism, texturism, 16 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: and how we could begin to dismantle these things in 17 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: our lives and in our relationships. Here's a clip from 18 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:37,479 Speaker 1: that conversation. And what do you think we can do, Donna, 19 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: as a community to begin or continue to change the 20 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:45,119 Speaker 1: conversation around like light skin and pretty hair so to speak, 21 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: being the only things that are deemed attractive. What you 22 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: said is so true. We definitely started. So he'sa raised 23 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: and secure shows us a different spectrum of beauty. The 24 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: black panther, of course, showed a completely different spectrum of beauty. 25 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: But some of that is what we are gonna do 26 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: for ourselves as individuals as well as how we're going 27 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:09,639 Speaker 1: to relate to one another. So number one, you know, 28 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: like this judgment of someone's character based on their hair 29 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: has got to stop, because what often is happening is 30 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 1: someone is seeing someone with light skin and this you know, 31 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 1: the silkier hair, and they're saying, oh, well, they're stuck up. 32 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: I'm like, well, you don't know them. You you haven't 33 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: had a conversation with them. You're already assuming a character 34 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: trait based on what you see. Just like there's an 35 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: assumption that if you are dark skinned with kinky hair 36 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: that somehow you are lazy and not willing to take 37 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: pride in your appearance. So that judgment of character based 38 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: on our hair and our skin tone, that's part of 39 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: what needs to sort of stop. We need to, you know, 40 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: take stock of why we are feeling and thinking this way. 41 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,959 Speaker 1: And figure out whether or not this thought even originated 42 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: with us, because what I'm minding is that for most people, 43 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,799 Speaker 1: it is not what they think first, it's what someone 44 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: else thought that they have adapted as their own. M 45 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: m m mmm. And where are those messages primarily coming from? Oh, 46 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 1: it's this is so pervasive in American society that I'm 47 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: not even sure. You know, it's one of those like 48 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: we'll started press the chicken or the eggs sort of conversations. 49 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: So you know, of course we have to talk about slavery. 50 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: And to deny slaveries impact on texturism and colorism is 51 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: to deny a huge part of black culture here in America. 52 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: So they already were grading us based on our skin 53 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: tone and our hair texture. Then, so those that were 54 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 1: closer and looks to them, you know, through rape and 55 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: all this, all that other stuff that was going on, 56 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: they they're like, oh, well, I like this child. I'll 57 00:03:55,160 --> 00:04:00,080 Speaker 1: take better care of this child. So lighter skin slaves 58 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: with good hair got better privileges. Now that's not to 59 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:05,839 Speaker 1: say that it didn't suck all around, because it did. 60 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: It's still slavery, right, but more likely to be freed, 61 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: more likely to be taught to read and write, and 62 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: more likely to have other privileges like oh, you get 63 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: the bathe more often, you get to wash your hair, 64 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: your hair more often, like yeah, you. But so like, 65 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: we have to understand the impact that slavery has had. 66 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: And I know that a lot of people want to say, 67 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 1: but slavery was so long ago, And to that, I say, 68 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: let's go back to what they already said in The 69 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 1: Lion King when Rafiki hit symbol on the head, he said, 70 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:44,039 Speaker 1: it's in the past, but it's still hurt. And I 71 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: want us to remember that just because something happened in 72 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: the past doesn't mean it doesn't still hurt. For clients 73 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: that you see, you know, probably eighteen and older, like 74 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 1: what kinds of strategies are you using with them to 75 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: help them unpack some of this and to really heal 76 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: some of the trauma and has likely come about related 77 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 1: to either hair texture or skin color. I can talk 78 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: about that all day, but where I end up starting 79 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: number one is some people won't even acknowledge that that 80 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:17,840 Speaker 1: is the problem. So first, you know, like I'm I'm 81 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 1: trying to unpack about why they're there, and they don't 82 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: want to bring it up in that way because they 83 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: don't want to seem like they're hating on themselves, but 84 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: they're hating on themselves. So I try to, number one, 85 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: help them to even see that this is an issue 86 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 1: that they have been having and that they like to 87 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: talk around that issue. So what I like to do 88 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: is really get people from a place that talking around 89 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: it to talking about it specifically and being real about 90 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: it and knowing and also talking about the origins of 91 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 1: where this came from, because unfortunately, a lot of us 92 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: got these hurts from our parents, from our mothers, from 93 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: our grandmothers, and we don't want to talk badly about 94 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: them because they did so much for us, which and 95 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: and you know, I'm not denying what they have done 96 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: for us or the great things that they have instilled 97 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 1: within us, but that doesn't mean that we cannot also 98 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 1: acknowledge the bad with the good. So being able to 99 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: sort of separate the things that we didn't like from 100 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 1: the things that we did like about growing up and 101 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: how those messages continue to show themselves in our everyday life, 102 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: So trying to make it trying to make sure that 103 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: we are bringing that up and that we're actually talking 104 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: about that and really also examining the difference between how 105 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: they think about themselves and how they think other people 106 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 1: think about them, sort of getting to that intrinsic versus 107 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: extrinsic value. And you know, getting those baseline assessments, I 108 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 1: need to understand where they are and where they're trying 109 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: to go and their reasoning for getting there. So what 110 00:06:57,440 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: tips might you have for listeners who might be strung 111 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,720 Speaker 1: doing with some of these issues, any like places for 112 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: them to start? I would say first, the first step 113 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: is always to me acknowledgement. Stop holding onto that pain 114 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: and to your silence. It's way past time to speak out. 115 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: Talk to your mother, your grandmother, family, your romant to partner, 116 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: talk to the people that are in your life that 117 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: you love but have hurt you in some way, shape 118 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: or form. And also that means you have to talk 119 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: to yourself. You have to acknowledge the way you also 120 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: hurt you. And just having that first step of acknowledgement 121 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: is I mean, really it does wonders in and of itself, 122 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: acknowledgement and then thinking of your what next, what do 123 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: I want to do next? How do I want to 124 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: proceed with this? And of course making sure that we're 125 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: not trivializing it. That we're not saying that, you know, hair, 126 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: hair texture, and skin tone are frivolous, because they're not. 127 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: Just like we wouldn't say that racism is frivolous, we 128 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: should not be saying that colorism and texturism, which are 129 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: derivatives of racism, are frivolous. It doesn't make any sense 130 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: to say that. So as a community, we need to 131 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: be able to be willing to have this conversation. And 132 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: that means that I like skin divas have to check 133 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: themselves and their privilege and listen to our doctor skinned 134 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: people and vice versa, because everybody is having some level 135 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: of hurt. It's just that some hurt is more systematic 136 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: and and sort of follow mimics the way that racism 137 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: has been mimicked. So it's like, yes, you can hurt 138 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: a white person's feelings, but that doesn't mean that you 139 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: you reversed racism them. And it's the same thing with 140 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: colorism and texturism. Just understanding power and the power dynamics 141 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: and how those things sort of come together. Those are 142 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 1: really gonna help with being able to move forward in 143 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 1: a positive direction where we can all hell collectively as 144 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 1: a follow up to that conversation and to broaden it. Today, 145 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: I'm joined by Dr Yabba Blake, who is a scholar, activist, 146 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: public speaker, and cultural consultant whose scholarship, work and practice 147 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: centers on the lived experiences of Black women and girls, 148 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: with a particular focus on identity and body politics and 149 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 1: beauty practices. She is also the author of the award 150 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: winning book One Drop Shifting the Lens on Race. Dr 151 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:38,479 Speaker 1: Bla and I further discussed the system of white supremacy, 152 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: skin color politics, and the role of the media in 153 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:47,199 Speaker 1: shaping our ideas about who we are. She begins by 154 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: sharing her thoughts on the social construct of race and 155 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: how it has evolved throughout history. People always say racis 156 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: with social construct, but I don't know if they really 157 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:02,199 Speaker 1: understand what seeing when they say that, Right, It's bigger 158 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: than a social construct. It is a political one. And 159 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: by political I mean that their negotiations of power at play, 160 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: and so at its origin, the only purpose for creating 161 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: race was to substantiate racism. That doesn't make race a fact. Yeah, 162 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:20,319 Speaker 1: and can you expand on that a little more to 163 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 1: kind of talk about like how you have seen the 164 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: conversations on race evolved kind of throughout history. Well, there 165 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: weren't conversations, they were laws. It wasn't anything to discuss, right, 166 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: And so in creating blackness, for example, and the language, 167 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:41,559 Speaker 1: of course has changed over time. And I'm speaking specifically 168 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:45,079 Speaker 1: about the United States example, though the book talks about 169 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: many global examples. In this context, I want to be 170 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: clear that I'm talking about how race was constructed in 171 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 1: the United States specifically, but rate has been situated as 172 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: binary opposite for the most part, right, And so when 173 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 1: I say that race was constructed to substantiate racism, I'm 174 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: saying that whiteness needed a reason to justify its oppression 175 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: of blackness. And how do you do that but to 176 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: create binary opposites told ends of the spectrum, whiteness comes 177 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: to be defined as pure, and that is the language 178 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 1: that they use. And so whatever it is it meant 179 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: to be, black was going to be the opposite of that. 180 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: If whiteness was all things human and and and civil 181 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 1: and you know, smart and good and valuable, blackness was 182 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 1: going to hope to be everything opposite. And it wasn't 183 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: about it being a fact, right, This was based upon fact. 184 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: This was based upon a projected definition that needed to 185 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: substantiate racism. How else do you justify being able to 186 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: literally walk onto any continent that you please and do 187 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,319 Speaker 1: whatever you want with the land and the people, if 188 00:11:55,360 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 1: you don't justify your superiority in this world and so 189 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:05,679 Speaker 1: much of what we have come to believe. Understand no 190 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 1: about race, it's not real. It's constructed once you put 191 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: white supremacy on the table. Didn't they buy our bodies 192 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 1: an entitlement? Shouldn't they have access to a culture? This 193 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: listen is they're inheritance. So it's not surprising, y'all. It's 194 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 1: a sense of entitlement that comes with the historical inheritance 195 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: of whiteness. I watched a newly released interview someone did 196 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: James Baldwin back in the day that apparently hadn't gotten 197 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: much traction, and so it was just rereleased a couple 198 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: of weeks ago, and I watched it, and I love 199 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 1: Baldwin for his bluntness and the way he would look 200 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: white people in the eye and tell the truth. And 201 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: he's having this conversation with this white woman, who of 202 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: course is walking with him through Harlem, and you're looking at, 203 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 1: you know, the black Harlem and and so she's talking 204 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 1: to him, and you know, he's letting white people have it. 205 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: He's letting white supremacy as a system have it. And 206 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 1: you know, she's looking a little weary, and he's like, look, 207 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:12,959 Speaker 1: I don't know you personally, but I know you historically. 208 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 1: And that's what I'm saying, not talking about individual white 209 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: people necessarily, We're talking about historical political relationships that we 210 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: should not be asked to forget. You mentioned, you know, 211 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 1: white supremacy as an institution, right, like, not necessarily individuals, 212 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: and that white people are not, of course the only 213 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: people who buy into these systems, like it is everywhere, 214 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: and so of course even black people sometimes buy into 215 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: these systems. And I find that this comes up most 216 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 1: often when we try to have conversations around colorism, you know, 217 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: and it feels like it's really hard for people to 218 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: grapple with the idea, like like they can see it 219 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: on some level, like of course there are differences between 220 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: how darker skin sisters are treated versus light skin sist ers, 221 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: but it feels like sometimes like skin sisters don't want 222 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: to let go of like the pain that they may 223 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 1: have been caused by their skin color and don't understand 224 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: like how that isn't also colorism. So language is important, 225 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: and so it's why I and this is me how 226 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: I approach it. I use colorism to mean one thing. 227 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: I use skin color politics to mean another. Skin color 228 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: politics will be a broader spectrum that would allow for 229 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: us to talk about again negotiations of power that are 230 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: based upon skin color, which means it could move in 231 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: multiple directions. It allows for us to talk about that 232 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: pain you mentioned right that all of us experience when 233 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 1: we talk about colorism. Though we're speaking specifically to a 234 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: system that is founded on power differential, it doesn't work 235 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: in reverse and the same way that we should not 236 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: be saying reverse racism. There is no reverse colorism, right, 237 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: And so for me and opening up the space to 238 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: talk about skin color politics, I acknowledge that there may 239 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: be pain, right. I don't want to dismiss that at all. 240 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: Pain that comes with perhaps feeling rejected or being teased 241 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: or what have you, for having life scan and even 242 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: for being you know, racially ambiguous. I heard a lot 243 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: of those stories from many of the folks in my 244 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: book In One Drop. But similarly, you know, hesitate to 245 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: make the likeness with the likeness is necessary because what 246 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 1: I know is that colorism is an outgrowth of white supremacy, 247 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: and we can't talk about colorism without situating it within 248 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: the broader context of white supremacy. But in the same 249 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: way that we don't want to hear white folks talk 250 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: about how they've also been discriminated. Again, it's hard for 251 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: us to hear. And that's just me being a human being, 252 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: being a black woman, and being honest. And I feel 253 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 1: like we have to create the spaces for us to 254 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: be honest about how we feel about these things and 255 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: our relationship to these things and our experiences with these 256 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: things if we truly want to move forward. And I've 257 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: been able to have some beautiful conversations with light skinned 258 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: sisters and work through some of this right, because again, 259 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: I don't want to negate or dismiss any of your experiences, 260 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: but I also want you to not do the same 261 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: to mind right, and when you liking what you are 262 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: going through to what I am going through, that feels 263 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: like a dismissal or an inability or refusal to recognize 264 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: it for what it is, right, Because you can talk 265 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 1: about pain, but you don't want to talk about your privilege, 266 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 1: and in the same ways that we continue to ask 267 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: white folks to recognize their privilege so that they can 268 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: do something about it, so that white folks all about 269 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: equality won't be no equality unless you give up some 270 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: of your privilege. Yeah, more from my conversation with Dr 271 00:16:53,480 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 1: Blee after the break. I appreciate you broadening the conversation 272 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 1: to skin color politics, because I think you're right that 273 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 1: a lot of the conversation sometimes gets shut down because 274 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 1: people get caught in the semantics of it, right, Like, 275 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: maybe they don't necessarily understand that colorism like doesn't go 276 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: both ways, right, and so they want to have space 277 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 1: for their pain too. But if we broaden it to 278 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 1: skin color politics, then there is space for all of 279 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: those conversations absolutely. And again for me, let's not have 280 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: any of these conversations absent of a contextualization within white supremacy, 281 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: because if you understand white supremacy, and if it's our 282 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: visual presentation, right, I show you. I'd show you a 283 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 1: vertical hierarchy with whiteness at the top, blackness at the bottom, right, 284 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: which means we've got a range of colors in between. 285 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,399 Speaker 1: The whiteness is at the top and blackness is at 286 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,479 Speaker 1: the bottom, So what happens to everything in between? If 287 00:17:55,520 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 1: whiteness is situated as superior, that means that each one 288 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: of those shades closer and closer to whiteness, closer to 289 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: closer the privilege, right, that's the hierarchy of colorism. Those 290 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: things aren't separate. So yes, it's not to say that 291 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: there's not pain at every step of the hierarchy. And 292 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:21,880 Speaker 1: I hate to compare like I hate when we get 293 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: into like oppression Olympics. I'm not saying that you don't 294 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 1: have pain. I'm just saying your pain ain't like mine, 295 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,679 Speaker 1: and that's okay. I'm not saying mine. It's more that 296 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 1: it's greater, that it's better. It's not comparative, is what 297 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 1: I'm saying. Yours is yours, mine is mine. But please 298 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:42,439 Speaker 1: do not act like there is not privilege A teach 299 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:48,360 Speaker 1: like seeing Let's not do that. It's as offensive as 300 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:51,239 Speaker 1: it is when we hear white folks acteel like they 301 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 1: don't have privilege. And I'm not saying that you asked 302 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,439 Speaker 1: for it. I'm not saying that you've got inline and 303 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,919 Speaker 1: signed up for it. When I talk about skin color pology, 304 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,639 Speaker 1: because then I can acknowledge that it's not your quote 305 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: unquote faults, but it is what it is. So what 306 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,640 Speaker 1: are we gonna do about that? Those are the conversations 307 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,679 Speaker 1: we have to navigate, as opposed to throwing darts at 308 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,360 Speaker 1: one another. And you know we don't like each other 309 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: because of this that in the third What a beautiful 310 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 1: conversation it would be. And I can have these conversations 311 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: for a light of consistors that I acknowledge. The previdce 312 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 1: that I have I know I didn't ask for, but 313 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 1: I can tell you all the experiences that I have 314 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: that I know I've gotten because of my skin color, 315 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,400 Speaker 1: and it pisses me off and I don't appreciate it. Right, 316 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: But and this is what I think I might be 317 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: able to do with it. Why don't you tell me? So? 318 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 1: So what do you think I can do? How can 319 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 1: I I don't want to use a langue of allied 320 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,640 Speaker 1: because that's connected to other stuff, right, but like, how 321 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 1: can we be in community around this thing that we 322 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,880 Speaker 1: both acknowledge. What are some of the things you think 323 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: are necessary for us to be able to create spaces 324 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:04,880 Speaker 1: to have these kinds of conversations. Yeah, I'm not sure 325 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: if there's a guide book. I mean, I know what 326 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: I've done, and you know, and it's not anything that 327 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 1: I think, you know. I can say that other folks 328 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: can necessarily replicate, but there's a lot of work that 329 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:21,679 Speaker 1: comes with it that I don't know we're all ready 330 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: to do because it's painful. So this might be connected, 331 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: maybe not, but I'll tell it anyway. More recent news. 332 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 1: Let's say this year. You know, from a professional standpoint, 333 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 1: I know a lot of women that do. Black women 334 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: do all kinds of work, public work, right and in 335 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 1: a lot of ways because of white supremacy, because we've 336 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 1: been robbed, if you will, over time with particular opportunities. Now, 337 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: when we get opportunities, and by we, I mean black 338 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: folks in general, we on some Easter ray, I'm looking 339 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: for everybody black right in that space. Though it's difficult 340 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: because on the one hand, I'm rooting for everybody black. 341 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 1: Why can't I point out that everybody black seems to 342 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 1: be looking up and take all away? Mm hmmm, Because 343 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:11,119 Speaker 1: we're not supposed to say that publicly, right, So we're 344 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: supposed to be celebrating blackness, and and and and the 345 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,399 Speaker 1: painful thing is when you talk about how do we 346 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 1: get to a space where where we can have these conversations. 347 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 1: You should also know that dark skinned women, dark skinned 348 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,159 Speaker 1: people are tired of being the only ones calling it 349 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 1: out mm hmm, in the same way that black people 350 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 1: are tired of being the only ones calling out white supremacy. Yeah, 351 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 1: and it does seem like, you know, you mentioned a 352 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:35,159 Speaker 1: couple of times where you feel like you've had like 353 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: successful kinds of conversations like this, And it does seem 354 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: like the privacy peace is a large part of it, right, 355 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:44,160 Speaker 1: But I think what often happens is that we try 356 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 1: to have these conversations like on Instagram, on Twitter. That's 357 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,199 Speaker 1: not gonna be the space. I mean, let me let 358 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 1: me not say that. I think those spaces can be 359 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: uh conduitsy healing, but let's not expect too much. We're 360 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: limited characters. And also for me, I checked a lot. 361 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 1: But if there's something going down, we gotta tall Yeah. 362 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:13,640 Speaker 1: These words pyped out, ain't it? We are all Yeah, 363 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: we gotta talk it out. Yeah, And it does seem 364 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: like I mean, I think you probably heard these jokes 365 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 1: around like secret black girl meetings, and we gotta have 366 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,239 Speaker 1: a meeting. We gotta talk about this thing, right, And 367 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: in some ways I really wish we have that. I mean, 368 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 1: of course, I think we have that in smaller communities, 369 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: right like in our girl chats and and I you know, 370 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: but I feel like there would be a lot that 371 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: could be accomplished if we could be in a room 372 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,439 Speaker 1: so to speak with one another, in a space that 373 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,440 Speaker 1: felt private and confidential, for us to really hash out 374 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: some of these things absolutely and by safe. You know, 375 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: who's ever in conversation? I think it was. I don't 376 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: know that it could be just an open conversation for 377 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: everyone to contribute necessarily, as much as like who's going 378 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:58,159 Speaker 1: to model how to have these conversations? Like we need models. 379 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,360 Speaker 1: We don't have models for that. We know updating myself, 380 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 1: you know school days, we know the beef, we know 381 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: team light skinned, team dark skin. We don't have many 382 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 1: models for four sisters of different complexions having I'm the 383 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 1: healing conversations as much as that, conversations that ultimately acknowledge 384 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,400 Speaker 1: each of us, each of us even when it's painful, 385 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,399 Speaker 1: And to be quite honest, part of you know, my 386 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,880 Speaker 1: inspiration and motivation to do the work of one Drip 387 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: was to heal my own stuff around colorism as much 388 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 1: as it was connected to black identity. So if I'm 389 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 1: dark skinned growing up in New Orleans, right, and being 390 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: rejected and teased and bullied and what have you because 391 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: of that dark skin, or feeling like I'm left out 392 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: of particular spaces and opportunities because of that dark skins? 393 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: And how do I'm not gonna say, defend myself because 394 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 1: it became less about a defense as it was about 395 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:01,440 Speaker 1: an offense, right, And so the one thing you can't 396 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: ever take away from me is my blackness. If you 397 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 1: see me, you know what is asking a question at all? 398 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: There's no question to be asked. So then what happens 399 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 1: to folks who are racially ambiguous, folks who might identify 400 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: as creole? You know you're not? Right? I am? And 401 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: so it was a complete turnaround I opening experience to 402 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 1: move to the Northeast and come into contact with folks 403 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: who looked like the folks I grew up with, but 404 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 1: who were very clear that they were black. Song Like, well, 405 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: how did that work? Right? Because and again listen to 406 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 1: the language. Why would you claim blackness when you don't 407 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:41,719 Speaker 1: have to? Which when you unpack that, yaba, there's a 408 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 1: lot about your relationship to white supremacy cists? Right? Are 409 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 1: you not conforming then, or conceding then too, that superiority 410 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 1: complex Are you not feeding the idea then that whiteness 411 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,239 Speaker 1: is superior and therefore all of those shades beneath it 412 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: are more superior to your dark any complexion. Why wouldn't 413 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: somebody want to be black? Stuff? You're so black and proud, 414 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: Why wouldn't somebody want to be black? Right? And so 415 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 1: having all of these conversations and talking to all of 416 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,119 Speaker 1: these folks from all kinds of backgrounds who claimed it, 417 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: and again in this moment, having done the word, it 418 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 1: almost sounds offensive to say claim their blackness because for 419 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 1: me wasn't a choice, you see what I'm saying. And 420 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:31,159 Speaker 1: so that's my stuff looking at them from where I 421 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:35,160 Speaker 1: am thinking that it's a choice, because I didn't have 422 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 1: that choice, you see what I'm saying. And so I 423 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 1: had to sit on my hands in a lot of 424 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: ways and let them lead me because it wasn't about me. 425 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: It was about me in terms of a starting point. 426 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 1: But if I really wanted to be open to the healing, 427 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,479 Speaker 1: I had to let them lead me. I had to 428 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,679 Speaker 1: be present and listen to what they were saying and 429 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,919 Speaker 1: not translated. So what's in the book I had, you know, 430 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,119 Speaker 1: all interviews with folks in personal interviews that I recorded 431 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: and transcribed, and what I wrote as their memoirs are 432 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,439 Speaker 1: their words. In terms of the process, once I wrote 433 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,119 Speaker 1: the narrative form, I sent it to them for their 434 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 1: approval and we did edits together. Because I wasn't going 435 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,479 Speaker 1: to publish anything. I needed them to trust me with 436 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:23,439 Speaker 1: their stories. This was going about me reframing, rewording you know, 437 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,919 Speaker 1: this is what you said? Does this work for you? 438 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:29,440 Speaker 1: Because it's your picture that's gonna be next to the 439 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,959 Speaker 1: you know. And so it just reminds me of so 440 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:39,360 Speaker 1: many situations just in relationships in general, right that if 441 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,959 Speaker 1: you enter a conversation that might be conflicting or conflictual, 442 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,400 Speaker 1: I should say, and you enter it as a fight, 443 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,639 Speaker 1: or you enter it committed to winning. You are not 444 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 1: open to hearing what the other person has to say 445 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: because you're so focused on winning. You're so focused on 446 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: on on the comeback and the retort and the dis 447 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,959 Speaker 1: this all that you're not the president for the conversation 448 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: and you cannot acknowledge their truth. And that's hard for 449 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 1: so many of us who are so used to having 450 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 1: to defend ourselves, who are so used to having to fight, 451 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:16,160 Speaker 1: and then you want to do this in the context 452 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:24,159 Speaker 1: of colorism, right, Yeah, that's a big challenge. So I 453 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: also want to extend you know, some grace. Yeah it's 454 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 1: not easy. It's not easy. Yeah, not easy at all. 455 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: More from Dr Blaine after the break. I wonder if 456 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: there are other questions, because I think that was such 457 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 1: a beautiful question, how you kind of examine like is 458 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: this my stuff? Like what's coming up in terms of 459 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 1: my own relation to blackness? Right? But there are other 460 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 1: questions that can offer that might be helpful for people 461 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,399 Speaker 1: to kind of examine, you know, how they might be 462 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: moving through the world related to their identity. I mean, 463 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,359 Speaker 1: I think again those questions of identity in terms of 464 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 1: who I am. I don't have a step by step guide, 465 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: but like sitting in that question for a minute, who 466 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: am I? And whatever answers you come up with, are 467 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: they your answers or the answers that have been given 468 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 1: to you over time. Our parents give us a lot 469 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 1: of answers, Our families give us a lot of answers, 470 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:33,920 Speaker 1: Our friends give us a lot of answers. Are our 471 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 1: intimate partners give us a lot of answers? What is 472 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 1: the work of digging through? What unpacking all that to 473 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: get to your answer? You know, I think of the 474 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 1: college students that I taught. I taught in a political 475 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: science department in my last position, and an H A 476 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: c U. Everybody was gonna be a lawyer. I'm like, 477 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: look at all y'all ain't getting in the law school. Okay, 478 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: so what else? What else is possible? But it's just 479 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: so interesting. You know, I was raised by gunny and parents, 480 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: so you have about five options in terms of what 481 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 1: they thought was success, you know, doctor, lawyer, engineer. There's 482 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 1: so many of us who are in school for so 483 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: many things that have nothing to do with who we 484 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: are and our best selves. And so the challenge I 485 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 1: have found with parenting and what I think is really 486 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 1: beautiful parenting, it's to take yourself out of it. So 487 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: much of parenting, and I think this is also connected 488 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 1: to a lot of culture and historical stuff, is that parents, 489 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: we can give ourselves. We are part on ourselves, and 490 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: we believe that whatever it is our children do or 491 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: don't do is a reflection of us and our parenting, 492 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: and sometimes they aren't gonna do with you. That's them. 493 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: So that if your child doesn't go to college, if 494 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: your child doesn't become a quote unquote successful X, Y 495 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: and Z, that somehow you think people are looking at 496 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: you sideways like you did something wrong. We have the 497 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: privilege and the blessing in this moment to you know, 498 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 1: challenge ourselves to find joy in our work or folks saying, 499 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: my my ancestors wildest dreams, That's what I mean, take 500 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: an advantage of the possibilities they didn't have. Yeah, it's 501 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: enough engineers in this world. It's enough attorneys, there's enough 502 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: medical doctors. Again, not discouraging anybody if that's truly who 503 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: and what you want to be. But let's be honest. 504 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 1: Most of us, when it's time to quote unquote pick 505 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: your career in the same way it's time to pick 506 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 1: your major, how many of us actually went through a 507 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 1: process where we were connecting that choice with who we 508 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: really are. No, we think about how much money I 509 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: can make, right, you know what I'm saying. We're not 510 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: thinking of ourselves for real, for real, It's almost like 511 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 1: it's just a concession. What am I willing to do, 512 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: and so again, we might have a different conversation a 513 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: few years ago, but it's definitely where I am in 514 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 1: this moment, and I like and it's been a beautiful, 515 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: like revealing to me. I'm learning so much about myself 516 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 1: now that I work for myself about what I want 517 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 1: and how that might look different next year. And guess 518 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 1: what I'm gonna be all right, right? Right? Yeah, you 519 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: know you mentioned how a lot of times these answers 520 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: come from our parents and from other people in our family. 521 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: But I think, you know, the other thing is that 522 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: a lot of these answers sometimes come from media, right, 523 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: And so I think, especially as we're thinking about like colorism, 524 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 1: and we you know, think about like how media perpetuates 525 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: these ideas about like what blackness looks like, and so 526 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 1: you know, today I think we see shows like Blackish 527 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: and Mixed Dish and like there's one look for how 528 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,239 Speaker 1: a family is. But then we think about you know, 529 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 1: like Good Times with the Burning Name show, and families 530 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: look very different. So I'm wondering what your thoughts about, 531 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: Like what prompt is this shift in how black families 532 00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 1: look different as it is seen today. I would question 533 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 1: if it's a shift really saying, I mean it's a 534 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 1: shift on surface, but ultimately they still both presentations ultimately 535 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 1: support white supremse. You know, so when you talk about, okay, 536 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: there might be a time where we saw predominantly dark 537 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 1: skinned families on TV. What kind of family though? Were 538 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 1: they in the projects? You see what I'm saying. What 539 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: about Bernie mac We're not Bernie Mac. No, but a 540 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: good times definitely good times saying for that generation right 541 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 1: moving forward? Then okay, let's say the consiny show that 542 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 1: people love so much to the extent that they want 543 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 1: to defend that man. But I'll leave that alone. The 544 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: gods we show, you got Cliff and you got Claire. 545 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 1: I always question. I know, yes, there's a diversity in blackness. 546 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 1: I know we come in all shades, but y'all not 547 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,720 Speaker 1: come convince me that Denise and what was the older 548 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: sister's name. Y'all can't convince me the son during Denise 549 00:32:56,200 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: came from them, from them to people. Sorry, So nominally, 550 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 1: when we looked at mixed dish or we look at blownfish, like, 551 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 1: what I'm saying is those tropes hardly change. Because my 552 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 1: mom is supposed to be beautiful and feminine, yes, what 553 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 1: she looked like every time? Daddy's supposed to be strong, 554 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 1: and the provider, what's he looked like every time? And 555 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: then you get the United Nations among the kids. What 556 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: strokes haven't changed. We're still projecting similar images, I think. Now, Again, 557 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 1: it's not to say something total, because we do have 558 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: different examples, right, Like what am I thinking of? Everybody 559 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: hates Christ? You know what I mean? We have different examples, 560 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 1: and that found that show found lots of success. Right, 561 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 1: So again it's not to say in total, but it's 562 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 1: still there. Yeah. So the media is absolutely responsible for 563 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 1: a lot of our stuff because if we are only 564 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 1: relying upon the media to see ourselves, we're getting very 565 00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: strong messages about not only who we are, but who 566 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:05,720 Speaker 1: we can potentially be. M Yeah, I'm a hard one, 567 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,319 Speaker 1: Like I don't want I don't give the media too 568 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,840 Speaker 1: much of it incremental you're not getting gold stars. No, No, 569 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,240 Speaker 1: definitely give credit where where I see it. But most 570 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,880 Speaker 1: of the things that I would celebrate our independent productions. 571 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 1: You know, It's why I loves reproduction, So you know 572 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 1: what I mean, Like much of that had to come 573 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 1: from the ground, swell up, It's not some mainstream right, 574 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: So we could talk forever, y'all. But I mean, there's 575 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 1: just so much more I want to talk with you about. 576 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 1: But I know we have to wrap up. But I 577 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:39,960 Speaker 1: do want to get a sense of any resources that 578 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,759 Speaker 1: you really enjoy that you think other people who are 579 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 1: interested in like digging a little deeper into this conversation 580 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 1: might also enjoy anything you would share. Oh, you know, 581 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 1: I don't want to go to textbook around necessarily, because 582 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,439 Speaker 1: there are lots of books, you know, that talk about 583 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 1: the history of colorism and they things of that nature. 584 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,239 Speaker 1: But I'm a visual person and so you know, one 585 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: of the projects that I created it's called pretty Period 586 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: on Instagram. It's at I am pretty Period. Not to 587 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:18,239 Speaker 1: big up myself, but big up myself. The project is really, uh, 588 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 1: it's a kind of collective response to the backhanded compliment 589 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:23,799 Speaker 1: I've gotten way too many times is all you pretty 590 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,920 Speaker 1: for a dark stand girl, which is not a compliment 591 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:31,320 Speaker 1: at all. And the response is no, I'm pretty period. 592 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 1: And so part of the work of the project is 593 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 1: part of the reason why I love Instagram, because it 594 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,719 Speaker 1: is a visual platform. I would just encourage people not 595 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:41,880 Speaker 1: just to look at pretty Period in the images that 596 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,799 Speaker 1: we share on a daily or coach the website, which 597 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 1: is pretty period dot me, but do some hashtag sirs. 598 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,879 Speaker 1: You can hashtag melan in anything, you know, hashtag black 599 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,800 Speaker 1: girl anything, and just see the diversity of our beauty, 600 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 1: you know, online because again, we don't have to rely 601 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 1: on the instream anymore, like we are creating new images 602 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,840 Speaker 1: of and for ourselves. I think in addition to that, 603 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,479 Speaker 1: I also don't want to discourage you from digging into 604 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:16,839 Speaker 1: the history of colorism and black racial identity. It's hard, 605 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 1: you know, when folks ask me about resources, because I 606 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 1: feel like I ended up having to name the same 607 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 1: work over and over again, which is okay, but at 608 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,800 Speaker 1: the same time, I think it also speaks kind of 609 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 1: to what we opened the conversation with, like the idea 610 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:34,439 Speaker 1: that many of us aren't trained or guided in terms 611 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 1: of thinking critically. So if it's in a book, it's 612 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:41,840 Speaker 1: real also that the publishing industry controls which books are released, 613 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,399 Speaker 1: so then there's nobody is making assessment about which conversations 614 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 1: we get to have and in which direction and for 615 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,759 Speaker 1: what audience. And so, yes, there are lots of resources 616 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,480 Speaker 1: out there, I'm just not sure that there's anyone that 617 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 1: I would say, this is it if I would have 618 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,759 Speaker 1: to say one. And it's not connected to colorism as 619 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:08,239 Speaker 1: much as it's connected to blackness and our identity. It 620 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,800 Speaker 1: is a novel of homegoing by your jeosity. You know, 621 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 1: so many people have read it. I I'm obsessed with 622 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,600 Speaker 1: this book. I adore it. If I were in the classroom, 623 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,640 Speaker 1: I would find a way to teach it. And it 624 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 1: is an amazing book. And what I love about it 625 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,400 Speaker 1: is that it offers us the opportunity to connect the 626 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:35,080 Speaker 1: right and to stop seeing ourselves as these individual identities 627 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:38,719 Speaker 1: across the world and recognize that like when people say 628 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,480 Speaker 1: we came from the same place, that's like historical facts, 629 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,680 Speaker 1: you know. But I love how she tells the story. 630 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 1: So I would definitely encourage folks to read that book again. 631 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 1: Just to be open in any case, not just the 632 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:56,080 Speaker 1: resources that I'm sharing, any resource that anybody shares with 633 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 1: you recognize that you're only going to get from that 634 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:04,359 Speaker 1: resource what you're able to right based upon where you are, 635 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,160 Speaker 1: what you're willing to release about yourself in order to 636 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 1: receive what's being shared. So all of that to say, 637 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,400 Speaker 1: I don't know, well you shared, you've already shared some 638 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 1: good stuff as well. And where can we keep up 639 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:24,960 Speaker 1: with you and all the incredible work that you're doing. 640 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,360 Speaker 1: We already have pretty period. Where else can we find you? 641 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:32,120 Speaker 1: I'm online My website is Yaba blade dot com and 642 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:36,480 Speaker 1: I'm also on social on Instagram and Twitter at Yaba Blade, 643 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,880 Speaker 1: so my name will lead you to where i am 644 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 1: on perfect well. We will be sure to include all 645 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:44,920 Speaker 1: of that in the show notes. Thank you so much 646 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,040 Speaker 1: for today, Yava, You're welcome. Thank you for having me. 647 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:54,600 Speaker 1: I'm so glad that Dr Blade was able to share 648 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,839 Speaker 1: her expertise with us today. To learn more about her 649 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 1: and her work, or to check out the recour is 650 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,919 Speaker 1: that she shared, be sure to visit the show notes 651 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,759 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash Session to seventeen, 652 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 1: and don't forget to text two of your girls and 653 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:11,960 Speaker 1: tell them to check out the episode as well. If 654 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,719 Speaker 1: you're looking for a therapist in your area, be sure 655 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,520 Speaker 1: to check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Black 656 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 1: Girls dot com slash directory. And if you want to 657 00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,840 Speaker 1: continue digging into this topic or just be a community 658 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,440 Speaker 1: with other sisters, come on over and join us in 659 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,720 Speaker 1: the sister circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet 660 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,759 Speaker 1: designed just for black women. You can join us at 661 00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,319 Speaker 1: community dot therapy for black girls dot com. Thank y'all 662 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,960 Speaker 1: so much for joining me again this week. I look 663 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:42,239 Speaker 1: forward to continue in this conversation with you all real soon. 664 00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:43,399 Speaker 1: Take good care.