Speaker 1: Diversion podcasts. This episode contains descriptions of graphic violence and
Speaker 1: scenes of genocide. Listener's discretion is advised. So it's the
Speaker 1: winner of and Meo is in Brazil looking for the Butcher.
Speaker 1: He's building up his cover, talking to people in the
Speaker 1: tourist industry and getting ready to meet Herbert Seekers in person.
Speaker 1: M H. But before we get to that meeting, I
Speaker 1: want to tell you about another Nazi hunting mission going
Speaker 1: on at the same time, halfway around the world. Has
Speaker 1: a few parallels with Mio's operation, and it had an
Speaker 1: ending that sent a warning to the entire agency. Basad
Speaker 1: had sent an agent to Damascus to spy on the Syrians.
Speaker 1: His name was Ellie Cohen, and like Meo, he was undercover.
Speaker 1: He was posing as an Arab businessman, and he'd made
Speaker 1: friends with people high in the Syrian government, and like Meo,
Speaker 1: he'd gone solo, no backup team, no protection. Undercover, Ellie
Speaker 1: Cohen climbed to the top of Syrian society and was
Speaker 1: even interviewed on a popular Arabic radio show. Cohen's main
Speaker 1: mission was simply to find out what serious leaders and
Speaker 1: especially as military were up to. Were they thinking of
Speaker 1: war with Israel. Were they building up their forces with
Speaker 1: a planning sabotage. But he had a sideline too. Dozens
Speaker 1: of Nazis had fled to Syria after the war. Cohen
Speaker 1: was hoping to find out where they were and eliminate them.
Speaker 1: At one point he located a guy named Walter Ralph,
Speaker 1: who had helped develop the mobile gas fans that had
Speaker 1: killed hundreds of thousands of Jews. He sent a letter
Speaker 1: bomb to Ralph, wounding the x Nazi. Ellie Cohen was
Speaker 1: probably the only other Massad agent besides Meo working in
Speaker 1: the field to find Nazis, but Cohen's luck turned bad.
Speaker 1: Around seven am one morning, military policeman broke into his
Speaker 1: Damascus apartment and found the agent sitting on his bed
Speaker 1: tapping out a message to Massad and a miniature transmitter.
Speaker 1: Cohen managed to throw a bottle of acid on the
Speaker 1: code sheets that he used to communicate with his handlers,
Speaker 1: but he was quickly arrested. Months later, he would be
Speaker 1: brought into the Central Square in Damascus in front of
Speaker 1: thousands of spectators and hung. This was all going on
Speaker 1: at the same time as MEO's mission. Coin's arrest inevitably
Speaker 1: influenced our mood. Neo remembered it was a grim reminder
Speaker 1: of what could happen to him if he took the
Speaker 1: wrong step and his true identity was revealed. If Meo
Speaker 1: wasn't careful, he would become the target, hunted down in
Speaker 1: a place far from any help. On his fifth day
Speaker 1: in Stal Paulo, Meo drove to the marina in the
Speaker 1: Interlagos neighborhood in his pocket. He had the letter of
Speaker 1: introduction he had gotten from the company director. As soon
Speaker 1: as he arrived, Mia went to see the guy who
Speaker 1: ran the marina. I was a real pest and bombarded
Speaker 1: him with endless questions. Meo didn't care about the answers.
Speaker 1: He just wanted to impress on the manager how ambitious
Speaker 1: he was. This astring businessman was going to spend a
Speaker 1: lot of money in Brazil. He was very patient, and
Speaker 1: I achieved my goal. He will remember me very well.
Speaker 1: After the meeting, Mia wandered down to the docks, who
Speaker 1: pretended to be relaxing after a day of business. He
Speaker 1: spotted a bunch of rental boats tied up to one
Speaker 1: of the piers that jetted out into the lake, and
Speaker 1: next to it a battered seaplane. It was a sign
Speaker 1: that Meal might have found the right place. Herbert Supers
Speaker 1: was obsessed with aircraft. He built them all his life.
Speaker 1: Next to the dock was a restaurant with a thatched roof.
Speaker 1: Neo strolled over, sat at the table, and ordered a
Speaker 1: cold drink. As he sipped it, he kept an eye
Speaker 1: on the pier, looking for signs with the butcher. Nea
Speaker 1: watched the little ticket office at the boat rental business.
Speaker 1: He spotted young man working on the boats next to it.
Speaker 1: Neil thought it might be one of the butcher's sons.
Speaker 1: He was tempted to finish his drink, strolled down to
Speaker 1: the dock and strike up a conversation with the young man.
Speaker 1: Maybe the guy could tell him where Zukers was. Maybe
Speaker 1: the butcher himself would show up. But anything that could
Speaker 1: make him look too eager to meet Sukers that was
Speaker 1: to be avoided. Their meeting had to look casual, as
Speaker 1: if it had been a coincidence. Zukerts was looking from
Speaker 1: massade operatives. Don't give him a reason to think you're one.
Speaker 1: I must be careful not to be too noticeable. I thought.
Speaker 1: Zukers has been on the run for many years now,
Speaker 1: and there was no reason to jeopardize the operation because
Speaker 1: of undue haste. I could come back on Saturday and
Speaker 1: blending in this a general activity, get even closer to
Speaker 1: his target. For now, this fus enough. I'm Steven Talty
Speaker 1: and this as good assassin's hunting the butcher. Many former
Speaker 1: Nazis were deserting European droves and moving to the safety
Speaker 1: of South America. The first month was fine and not
Speaker 1: bending forwards. Trial. The second son was to find a lay,
Speaker 1: hearing we must thwarts this shameful forces. He hadn't of
Speaker 1: a trail of blood and horror, the end of a
Speaker 1: man whose name will be written in Italy, episode four.
Speaker 1: Acquiring the target. The next day, Meal was back. The
Speaker 1: marina was packed with Brazilians and joined the son. Mio,
Speaker 1: who wasn't the water skiing type, went back to the
Speaker 1: restaurant in order to play of oysters. After finishing them,
Speaker 1: he walked down the ramp to the docks, looking like,
Speaker 1: as he later said, a middle aged man with a
Speaker 1: pot belly who had just consumed a dozen juicy oysters
Speaker 1: and thus taking a stroll to aid his digestion. He
Speaker 1: went up to the Marina's little office. The young woman
Speaker 1: was at the register that morning. He began talking to her,
Speaker 1: asking her questions about the tourist business in the area.
Speaker 1: He spoke in English with a German accent. Young woman
Speaker 1: told him he could speak German to her. She was
Speaker 1: from Dresden, the city of the Allies had bombed during
Speaker 1: the war. She didn't know anything about the tourist business,
Speaker 1: but said that he could speak to someone else. Do
Speaker 1: you see this tall man with a light hair, she asked,
Speaker 1: and she pointed to the dock. A man was busy
Speaker 1: tying up a seaplane to a pole. He's much more
Speaker 1: knowledgeable about such things than I am. Talk to him.
Speaker 1: I'm sure he'd be helpful. Meo turned it saw a
Speaker 1: broad shouldered, older man, powerfully built, working on the dock.
Speaker 1: He had eight hair and the same thick buddy hollyglasses
Speaker 1: that MEO had seen in the surveillance photos. He looked
Speaker 1: like a former athlete. He had a certain swagger on
Speaker 1: the way he moved. It had to be Zookers. Neo
Speaker 1: walked over to the man and said good day in German.
Speaker 1: Zookers turned and expected him from head to toe. Neo
Speaker 1: spoke up my name is Anton Kunz. I'm a businessman.
Speaker 1: It's a friendly young lady. As the ticket booth preferred
Speaker 1: me to you. I'm interested in the tour straight here
Speaker 1: and she she told me you were an expert on
Speaker 1: the subject. Zookers didn't react. Well, it was a Saturday.
Speaker 1: He was busy, he needs to make some money, and
Speaker 1: here was this stranger asking these detailed questions. He brushed
Speaker 1: Meo off. The spy had to change his pitch quickly
Speaker 1: where Zookers would lose interest. Nea looked at the seaplane
Speaker 1: bobbing on the waves. Got an idea. He told Zukers
Speaker 1: he'd like to take a flying tour over the city.
Speaker 1: That way, the Butcher could earn some money and Meal
Speaker 1: could study him up close. The older man agreed immediately,
Speaker 1: my name is Sukars. Please or the plane and that
Speaker 1: was it confirmation. This was indeed the Butcher of Latvia.
Speaker 1: His attitude had changed completely. It was much friendlier now.
Speaker 1: Mio took note. He stepped into the plane. There was
Speaker 1: a small cockpit designed for only two people. Suckers got
Speaker 1: in and took the pilot's seat. Mio could tell immediately
Speaker 1: that the aviator was an expert he lived, loved and
Speaker 1: breathed airplanes. Neo thought The tour over the city took
Speaker 1: about twenty minutes, with Suker's pointing out different landmarks. The
Speaker 1: engine was so loud that Meo could barely hear above it,
Speaker 1: but he pretended to be deeply interested in what Sukers
Speaker 1: had to say. If Anton Kunzla was going to invest
Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of dollars in the area, he had
Speaker 1: looked like he was fascinated by every detail. After they landed,
Speaker 1: Suckers extended an invitation for a quick drink. He asked
Speaker 1: me O onto his boat. They climbed aboard, and Suckers
Speaker 1: brought out some brandy. They clink glasses and drank in
Speaker 1: the little cabin. Neo studied this man. He was a
Speaker 1: huge guy. Neo will talk about this again and again
Speaker 1: in later years. Zukers looked like a bodybuilder with muscled
Speaker 1: arms and broadcast. You try not to focus on the
Speaker 1: stories he'd heard about what the butcher had done during
Speaker 1: the war. He had to remain objective in character. Anton
Speaker 1: Kuzla had no idea who Herbert Suckers was. Before they
Speaker 1: could talk business, Sukers stared at me O. I'm accused
Speaker 1: of being a war criminal. Me a war criminal after
Speaker 1: I saved the life of a Jewish girl and protected
Speaker 1: her during the Old War. He waited for my reaction.
Speaker 1: I remained impassive. Neo said nothing to this, but his
Speaker 1: mind was going a million miles an hour. Why was
Speaker 1: Suukers bringing this up? They only just met an hour ago.
Speaker 1: Was it a test? He guessed that Zukers wanted to
Speaker 1: get an idea of Kunz's views on the war in
Speaker 1: the Holocaust. If he was too sympathetic to the Jews,
Speaker 1: Zukers might think he was a Jew himself. If Mio
Speaker 1: overdid it and defended the Nazis, it might seem over
Speaker 1: the top, a transparent move designed to appeal to an
Speaker 1: accused war criminals. Here tues this day, I cannot comprehend
Speaker 1: but make him think this was a good tactic. Perhaps
Speaker 1: he thought I was a former Nazi looking for a
Speaker 1: safe haven. Many former Nazis were deserting European droves and
Speaker 1: moving toward the safety of South America. But Mio kept quiet.
Speaker 1: He just said nothing. When he didn't answer, Zukers tried
Speaker 1: a different tax. Yes, Mio, if he'd served during the war.
Speaker 1: Mio told him yes, and Zukers asked where he'd been stationed. Yeah. So.
Speaker 1: A former officer from another intelligence service early on in
Speaker 1: my career said to me, Chris, rule number one. Rule
Speaker 1: number one is you always always have to prepare, you
Speaker 1: never improvise. That's Colonel Chris Costa. He's a former U. S.
Speaker 1: Army intelligence officer, Senior Director for counter Terrorism at the
Speaker 1: National Security Council, and currently the executive director of the
Speaker 1: International Spy Museum. Rule number two is, always be prepared
Speaker 1: to improvise. Right, They seem inconsistent, but he was right.
Speaker 1: He had a lot of wisdom. Sucers had served in
Speaker 1: Latvia and Western Russia. He fought partisans and Soviet soldiers
Speaker 1: from nineteen forty two onward. Maybe he was trying to
Speaker 1: see if me it was a fake by asking him
Speaker 1: some questions about weapons battles. Who knew you had to
Speaker 1: say something and fast. I served on the Russian Front,
Speaker 1: he told Sukers. And then, without even thinking, Neo unbuttoned
Speaker 1: his shirt and pulled it open to reveal a scar
Speaker 1: that ran across his chest. It looked like the result
Speaker 1: of a serious bullet wound. Perhaps some shrapnel. Suckers stared
Speaker 1: at it. He seemed impressed. He asked another question about
Speaker 1: which rank Neo held during the war, But after that
Speaker 1: the conversation turned to business. Zukers relaxed and you had
Speaker 1: clearly passed some kind of tests again, Chris Costa. You
Speaker 1: prepare meticulously not to unbutton your shirt and show somebody
Speaker 1: a scar, but when it happens in the moment and
Speaker 1: you're in your cover, you have to be able to
Speaker 1: think on your feet. Your survival depends on it. So
Speaker 1: the best officers are in a role, but they're living
Speaker 1: and breathing that role. Cover is the very air that
Speaker 1: you breathe. The scar on his chest, Nea would later
Speaker 1: reveal wasn't a war wound at all, was the result
Speaker 1: of a minor operation in Israel to remove an abscess.
Speaker 1: Neo hadn't been wounded during the war, and he'd had
Speaker 1: no idea that he was going to want to do
Speaker 1: the buttons until after he did it. It was like
Speaker 1: this character Anton Kuzla had taken over and told the
Speaker 1: story of his war experiences without Mio even realizing it.
Speaker 1: The Massad agent was deep in the role. He didn't
Speaker 1: have to make these things up like any good actor.
Speaker 1: He was improvising. In the moment, Neo told Suckers that
Speaker 1: he and his partners were thinking of investing heavily in Brazil.
Speaker 1: Zuker's got the hint. If they were going to pour
Speaker 1: money into sal Paolo, they would need a local contact
Speaker 1: who knew the lay of the land, that spoke the language.
Speaker 1: Neo never actually said it, but he could see that
Speaker 1: Zukers sensed an opportunity. Maybe there was money to be
Speaker 1: made here. After an hour, the two stood up and
Speaker 1: headed back to the dock. On the way, Zukers asked
Speaker 1: me to come to his house, which wasn't far away,
Speaker 1: to meet his family. It was a good sign. Maybe
Speaker 1: Zukers had begun just a little bit to trust him.
Speaker 1: But Mea was cautious. He couldn't appear to be chasing
Speaker 1: the butcher. He thought about it for a minute and
Speaker 1: told Seekers he had business in other parts of the country.
Speaker 1: He would be gone for a week. When he came back,
Speaker 1: if he had time to spare, he would call. It
Speaker 1: was the best he could do. They shook hands on it.
Speaker 1: Neia walked away, gotten his rented VW beetle, and left.
Speaker 1: When he reached the hotel, he wrote a report and
Speaker 1: sent it to your reeve. In Paris made contact with
Speaker 1: Slate one, I carry on and tom As Meal was
Speaker 1: making contact with suckers in Brazil. On the other side
Speaker 1: of the Atlantic, in Germany, a car was driving along
Speaker 1: the Audubon. Inside was a man named Tuvia Freedman. Freeman
Speaker 1: was headed to the German capital for meeting with the
Speaker 1: Justice minister. He had a presentation to give and if
Speaker 1: he succeeded with it would make Meal's mission completely pointless.
Speaker 1: Tuvia Freedman was a Nazi hunter. In fact, Freeman was
Speaker 1: considered one of the two leading Nazi hunters in the world,
Speaker 1: second only to the more famous activists Simon Well the
Speaker 1: What was my main goal? My main goal was to
Speaker 1: fight against the Nazi med us, who was really Billy
Speaker 1: murdered us of hundreds of thousand, to abolish the suchect
Speaker 1: limitation in Germany, to let the Nazi med Us be imprisoned,
Speaker 1: or to arrest him un till the end of their life.
Speaker 1: Freeman had grown up into small city in eastern Poland,
Speaker 1: a place called Radome. He and his family had watched
Speaker 1: the Nazis arrive. The Germans soon put them into a
Speaker 1: ghetto just seventeen. When the war started, Freeman saw Jews
Speaker 1: being murdered around him. His father starved himself to death
Speaker 1: so that his children would have more to eat. Freeman's
Speaker 1: younger brother, Herschel, and his sister Ka, who was his favorite,
Speaker 1: were taken away to concentration camps, and Freedman himself was
Speaker 1: transported to a subcamp of Auschwitz. Freedman and four other
Speaker 1: inmates escaped into the Polish countryside. They were nearly starving
Speaker 1: and began digging the dirt for potatoes. The farm's owners
Speaker 1: spotted them. The other escape He's wanted to run, but
Speaker 1: Freeman told them to wait. He walked towards the farmer
Speaker 1: and began shouting at him. Listen, you bastard, forget you
Speaker 1: ever understand. If you open your mouth, our men will
Speaker 1: burn your whole goddamn the village down to the last
Speaker 1: stick of wood to via. Freedman was tough. He didn't
Speaker 1: mind confrontation. In fact, he sought it out. Freedman survived
Speaker 1: the Holocaust by the sheer ferocity of his will, but
Speaker 1: his parents, along with Herschel and Ika, didn't survive. After
Speaker 1: the war, many survivors chose to move forward, to emigrate
Speaker 1: to new countries, go back to school, get married, have children. Freedman, though,
Speaker 1: was different. He couldn't move on. He wanted to find
Speaker 1: the people who killed his family and see that they
Speaker 1: were punished and the chaos of the post war period
Speaker 1: to via. Freedman hunted down German killers. His specialty was
Speaker 1: Gestapo officers and s S men. If he saw one
Speaker 1: of their black uniforms, he would be filled with the
Speaker 1: rage that sometimes drove him to extremes. He would beat them,
Speaker 1: sometimes kill them. He was a Jewish avenger, the real thing.
Speaker 1: Other Nazi hunters never physically put their hands on their enemies.
Speaker 1: Friedman did. One time, just after the war, Freedman was
Speaker 1: walking down the street in Vienna when he heard someone
Speaker 1: shouting his name. He was an old friend from his hometown,
Speaker 1: which somehow escaped the death camps. They got to talking
Speaker 1: and his friend mentioned this s S man would kill
Speaker 1: thousands of Jews and Radom. His name was buck Meyer.
Speaker 1: One of buck Meyer's favorite things had been to rush
Speaker 1: into the camp where Jews were held and beat them
Speaker 1: with a club he carried by his side. Freedman had
Speaker 1: watched him execute many people this way. Buck Meyer had
Speaker 1: also pulled a group of Jewish children from the camp
Speaker 1: and had them shot on the street just outside. Now,
Speaker 1: Freedman's friend was telling him that he had seen Boutmeyer
Speaker 1: right there in Vienna. In fact, he discovered Bukmeyer owned
Speaker 1: a butcher's shop in the city. Freedman immediately went to
Speaker 1: the shop, pretending to be an old friend of the
Speaker 1: s S Man. He questioned a worker and found out
Speaker 1: that Buckmeyer was actually being held in an American pow
Speaker 1: camp miles away, without anyone to identify him, and to
Speaker 1: tell the Americans about the atrocities. He committed there was
Speaker 1: a good chance Bob Meyer would go free. He'd get
Speaker 1: away with it. Freedman went to the camp. He got
Speaker 1: into see the American commander. He told him about book
Speaker 1: Meyer's crimes and asked to be put inside the camp
Speaker 1: disguised as a German prisoner. The commander told him there
Speaker 1: were ten thousand prisoners inside. How was he going to
Speaker 1: tell which one was the SS killer. Freedman assured him
Speaker 1: this wouldn't be a problem. The man's face was burned
Speaker 1: into his memory. Freedman was given an old s S
Speaker 1: jacket in a prisoner's uniform, and taken inside the camp
Speaker 1: as if he had just been captured. He made friends
Speaker 1: with the German soldier there. Together they had lunch. As
Speaker 1: he was watching up after the meal, he saw a
Speaker 1: man approaching whistling. It was Buchmeyer. Freeman turned his face away.
Speaker 1: That followed Buchmeyer from the cafeteria. Then he went to
Speaker 1: talk to the American commander. Book Meyer was pulled out
Speaker 1: of his barracks and brought to the major's office where
Speaker 1: some American officers were waiting with the Nazi hunter. Freeman
Speaker 1: wrote this in his memoir. I stood up and said
Speaker 1: to the prisoner, but Buchmaier, how could you forget me?
Speaker 1: We were in Radom together, Oh, ydom? He asked, Were
Speaker 1: you in the s S. Two? No? I was not,
Speaker 1: I replied, I was one of the Jews who worked
Speaker 1: do your book Mayer. The man's face turned white. Don't
Speaker 1: you remember you used to love to run around with
Speaker 1: a heavy club, beating us until the blood covered out
Speaker 1: entire bodies. You even had nurses with you who used
Speaker 1: to bandage us up so you could beat us again. Later,
Speaker 1: his lips trembling, book Myer said to me, but I
Speaker 1: wasn't the worst one. Was i the Americans through book
Speaker 1: Meyer into solitary confinement. From there, he was sent back
Speaker 1: to Poland, put on trial, convicted, and sentenced to twelve years,
Speaker 1: which he served under the brutal Soviet occupation. This chance
Speaker 1: of escaping justice and returning to his comfortable life at
Speaker 1: the butcher shop was gone for the rest of his life.
Speaker 1: Who was known as a Nazi murderer in war criminal
Speaker 1: m In his early twenties to Via, Freeman took a
Speaker 1: position in a Polish intelligence unit in the city of Danzig,
Speaker 1: becoming one of the first official Jewish Nazi hunters. He
Speaker 1: interrogated German troops, sorting out the Nazi party members and
Speaker 1: the regular soldiers and delivering them to prison. He also
Speaker 1: went to investigate crime scenes. Once he went to check
Speaker 1: out a building on the outskirts of Danzig where Nazis
Speaker 1: had reportedly held Jewish prisoners, Freeman wrote, one room was
Speaker 1: filled with naked corpses. Another room was filled with boards
Speaker 1: on which were stretched human skins. Nearby was a smaller
Speaker 1: building with a heavy paddle. Look we broke in. There
Speaker 1: was an oven in the corner, and it was lumps
Speaker 1: of something on the floor. We realized the Germans had
Speaker 1: been using the room to melt down human fat cut
Speaker 1: from their victims to make soap. Part of Freeman's job
Speaker 1: was interviewing former Nazis and sending some of them to jail.
Speaker 1: When they wouldn't answer his questions or when they lied
Speaker 1: to him, he got violent. He punched them, drue blood,
Speaker 1: broke some bones. He wanted to know the truth, and
Speaker 1: if they refused to give it to him, he was unmerciful.
Speaker 1: In fact, that's what his fellow investigators started calling him
Speaker 1: the merciless one. So for the twenty years since the
Speaker 1: war ended, Freeman had been hunting Nazis. He didn't mass
Speaker 1: thousands of files on potential suspects, but in Ntour the
Speaker 1: German government was less and less interested in suing them.
Speaker 1: Public opinion had turned against the trials of former Nazis.
Speaker 1: The U S in England now needed Germany as an
Speaker 1: ally against the Soviet Union. The Cold War was underway,
Speaker 1: and Germany's friends didn't want to press it too hard
Speaker 1: on the Nazi issue. Freedman's obsession, however, only grew. He
Speaker 1: moved to Israel, but kept looking for escape mass killers.
Speaker 1: Even his wife was growing tired of his work, all
Speaker 1: the talk about Nazis and genocide and the rest of it.
Speaker 1: He made almost no money, and so she was forced
Speaker 1: to be the sole support for their family. Finally, she
Speaker 1: last out at him, telling him that he was ruining
Speaker 1: their lives with this compulsion of his Again from Freeman's memoir,
Speaker 1: I said nothing. I was thirty seven years old and defeated.
Speaker 1: I felt that my life was a mockery. Even the force.
Speaker 1: I had come to the end of the road. I
Speaker 1: had a sheer, unscalable mountain confronted me. I was alone,
Speaker 1: but he couldn't give up. Freeman had learned about the
Speaker 1: Statute of Limitations for Nazi war criminals, and he was angry,
Speaker 1: frustrated an amnesty that was unthinkable. He had to do something.
Speaker 1: He decided to fly to Germany and meet with the
Speaker 1: Justice minister, whose name was Evolved Booker, to see if
Speaker 1: he can convince Booker to come out against the statue.
Speaker 1: I had come to the conclusion that it was useless
Speaker 1: for me to spend these last year's searching for twenty
Speaker 1: or thirty Nazis, while the Statute of Limitations, if it
Speaker 1: were to go into effect, would permit hundreds of them
Speaker 1: to come out of their hiding and again swagger into
Speaker 1: the beer cellars beyond the arm of the law. I
Speaker 1: could just imagine them beer stein and their wrists, laughing
Speaker 1: and drinking and boasting to each other of their exploits
Speaker 1: in killing Jews. So Freedman had come to Germany. The
Speaker 1: place made him nervous. He seemed too much hatred and
Speaker 1: death there. The night before the meeting, he and his
Speaker 1: friend went out to have something to eat and try
Speaker 1: to relax. A German Man at the restaurant nodded to
Speaker 1: them and sat at their table. He was half drunk,
Speaker 1: and he began talking about the war. Freeman recalled the
Speaker 1: interaction in a book he wrote about the Statue of Limitations.
Speaker 1: Then everything was bummed and ruined. Now you can see
Speaker 1: the difference. You see the German people, How we have
Speaker 1: reconstructed everything thoroughly. We Germans do everything thoroughly. The man
Speaker 1: toasted them and drank his beer. Something about the German's
Speaker 1: manner bothered, Freedman. Are the Germans so thorough at the
Speaker 1: murder as well? The man stared at Freeman, his look
Speaker 1: hard and energetic. Oh, yes, of course, we can murders
Speaker 1: thoroughly as well. Take the juice for example, how he
Speaker 1: murdered them throughout Europe. We only have to get the
Speaker 1: order and we'd do it. Freedman was depressed, but not shocked.
Speaker 1: At least the man was being honest. He believed what
Speaker 1: the Germans said, and it made him even more determined
Speaker 1: to stop the amnesty. If genocide was forgiven, he believed
Speaker 1: it would happen again. At the meeting the next day,
Speaker 1: the Justice Minister and his aid were very kind. They
Speaker 1: listened intently as Freedman told this story. I told them
Speaker 1: how these s s men made Southern raids in the
Speaker 1: early mornings, the people out of the beds and homes
Speaker 1: to the central square, how they threw out infants from
Speaker 1: the windows of their homes, and the bayonetted the young
Speaker 1: mothers who tried to save their children. The assistant pulled
Speaker 1: out his kerchief from his breast pocket and started wiping
Speaker 1: the tears that were filling his eyes, unable to hold
Speaker 1: back his emotions, as I myself seemed to reach an ecstasy,
Speaker 1: as though I was back in the ghetto of Radom
Speaker 1: and was going through all the horrors again. The Justice Minister,
Speaker 1: sitting opposite me repeated several times, terrible, Herr Friedman, that
Speaker 1: is really terrible. The minister was called away. While he
Speaker 1: was gone, his assistant lead dover to Freedman told him
Speaker 1: the minister was on his side. He too favored the
Speaker 1: cancelation of the statute. He wanted Nazi killers hunted down
Speaker 1: and brought to trial. Freeman was pleasantly surprised. It seemed
Speaker 1: he had an ally within the German government. He was
Speaker 1: wonderful to hear. The meeting finished, and Freedman flew back
Speaker 1: to Israel. Was optimistic if the Justice Minister was on
Speaker 1: his side, he had a chance. Back in South Paulo
Speaker 1: Meo booked the play to the Brazilian capital, Brazilia. He
Speaker 1: told Sucres he had to visit other parts of Brazil
Speaker 1: for work, so he jumped on the plane and went.
Speaker 1: Anything he told Sucres he actually had to do. It
Speaker 1: was his nature. He couldn't fake it. He flew to
Speaker 1: Brazilia and nearly ran into an Israeli diplomat, a man
Speaker 1: he knew from back home. If the man had spotted him,
Speaker 1: news cover would have been blown. This was all I needed,
Speaker 1: Israel's ambassador to Brazil, approaching me antoncons respectable Austrian businessman,
Speaker 1: just outside the lobby of the most luxurious hotel in
Speaker 1: Brazilia calling out, oh that's the price, how are things?
Speaker 1: What are you doing here on your own? Or is
Speaker 1: the Vike with you? Well, it happens sometimes. For example,
Speaker 1: it's also happened to me that I landed in Paris
Speaker 1: and I saw my neighbor there and I ignored him.
Speaker 1: And when he came back to Israel, he told my
Speaker 1: mom that we met in Paris and I didn't even
Speaker 1: say hello to him. Okay, that's under Abraham. He's the
Speaker 1: former Massad agent who has also become something of an
Speaker 1: historian of the agency. And according to Abraham, every agent
Speaker 1: treads running into someone from their real life while they're
Speaker 1: on a mission. But it's a problem when you when
Speaker 1: you meet someone that knows you in a different way,
Speaker 1: in a different name, you can he can suddenly call
Speaker 1: you. You You feel that you're going to die, because it
Speaker 1: can be a big, big problem. We will turn the
Speaker 1: sucked away before the ambassador could recognize him. But in
Speaker 1: the next city he visited the same thing. This time
Speaker 1: it was the director of l all the Israeli airline.
Speaker 1: Another friend from back home. It was too much for me. You,
Speaker 1: he reminded himself to be on a constant state of alert,
Speaker 1: always anticipating the unexpected. He was gone from Sal Paulo
Speaker 1: for nearly a week. He had to look like an
Speaker 1: important businessman making deals all over the country. If he
Speaker 1: was going to convince Sukers he was the real thing.
Speaker 1: I used my days in Basilia and Bahia to rest
Speaker 1: and to gather my strength for what was to come next.
Speaker 1: Although almost two weeks at passed since I left my
Speaker 1: home and family, I knew that, despite my success is
Speaker 1: so far, the most difficult pout still lay ahead of me.
Speaker 1: M It's important to remember that Neo had known people
Speaker 1: like the butcher earlier in his life. He'd grown up
Speaker 1: in Germany during the rise of Hitler. Mio had seen
Speaker 1: something coming in Germany in the early thirties. He'd seen
Speaker 1: it in the faces of his German teachers and his classmates,
Speaker 1: and he'd left it behind. But his parents had stayed,
Speaker 1: and they'd never made it out as I had researched
Speaker 1: Mio's life and wondered how he felt about that. If
Speaker 1: he'd ever felt guilty about leaving his mother and father behind,
Speaker 1: but there was really nothing a teenage boy would have
Speaker 1: been able to do to help them. Nazi soldiers had
Speaker 1: come to his family's house and put his parents on
Speaker 1: the train to the death camps. Now he was getting
Speaker 1: to know a Nazi, being friendly, even drinking with him.
Speaker 1: I wondered how Mio felt about that. Here's get Shamron,
Speaker 1: the ex Massad agent, knew me a well. After the war,
Speaker 1: he found himself alone in the world of family, hearing
Speaker 1: about the terrible fortune and destiny of European jury, including
Speaker 1: his parents, and one can understand why running after a
Speaker 1: Nazis for him was something more than a mission. The
Speaker 1: other Messoigy and I spoke to after Abraham agreed. He
Speaker 1: said that Mio kept his parents in his mind constantly.
Speaker 1: He actually dreamt about them. During the mission, they met
Speaker 1: many of the political survivors from different places, and most
Speaker 1: of them cannot live at night. They have bad dreams
Speaker 1: almost every night. And he also used to have a
Speaker 1: bed dreams and to dream about his parents. So for
Speaker 1: him is something that he cannot talkot and he cannot
Speaker 1: talk him. Neo told Gad Shimran that when he was
Speaker 1: given the mission in September to assassinate Herbert Suckers. It
Speaker 1: was like reopening a book, the unfinished story of his
Speaker 1: parents and their faith during the war. There was he
Speaker 1: felt a final chapter to be written. When Meo returned
Speaker 1: to Salth Paulo following his business trip, he fixed the
Speaker 1: Butcher in his sights. Now he needed to set the trap.
Speaker 1: Ye good assassins. Hunting the Butcher is a production of
Speaker 1: Diversion Podcasts in association with I Heart Radio. This season
Speaker 1: is written and hosted by Stephen Talti, produced and directed
Speaker 1: by Scott Waxman and Jacob Bronstein. Executive producers Scott Waxman
Speaker 1: and Mark Francis. Story editing by Jacob Bronstein with editorial
Speaker 1: direction from Scott Waxman and mangesh At. Ticket editing, mixing
Speaker 1: and sound designed by Mark Francis, with the voices of
Speaker 1: Nick Afka, Thomas Armory, Angle, Andrew Polk, Mindy Escobar, Leants,
Speaker 1: Steve Routman and Stefan Rudnitsky. Theme music by Tyler Cash.
Speaker 1: Archival research by Adam Shapiro. Special thanks to Oran Rosenbaum
Speaker 1: at ut A. Diversion Podcasts