1 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: Diversion podcasts. This episode contains descriptions of graphic violence and 2 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:28,479 Speaker 1: scenes of genocide. Listener's discretion is advised. So it's the 3 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 1: winner of and Meo is in Brazil looking for the Butcher. 4 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: He's building up his cover, talking to people in the 5 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: tourist industry and getting ready to meet Herbert Seekers in person. 6 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: M H. But before we get to that meeting, I 7 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: want to tell you about another Nazi hunting mission going 8 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: on at the same time, halfway around the world. Has 9 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,319 Speaker 1: a few parallels with Mio's operation, and it had an 10 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 1: ending that sent a warning to the entire agency. Basad 11 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: had sent an agent to Damascus to spy on the Syrians. 12 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:17,039 Speaker 1: His name was Ellie Cohen, and like Meo, he was undercover. 13 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 1: He was posing as an Arab businessman, and he'd made 14 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 1: friends with people high in the Syrian government, and like Meo, 15 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: he'd gone solo, no backup team, no protection. Undercover, Ellie 16 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: Cohen climbed to the top of Syrian society and was 17 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: even interviewed on a popular Arabic radio show. Cohen's main 18 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 1: mission was simply to find out what serious leaders and 19 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: especially as military were up to. Were they thinking of 20 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: war with Israel. Were they building up their forces with 21 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: a planning sabotage. But he had a sideline too. Dozens 22 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: of Nazis had fled to Syria after the war. Cohen 23 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 1: was hoping to find out where they were and eliminate them. 24 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: At one point he located a guy named Walter Ralph, 25 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 1: who had helped develop the mobile gas fans that had 26 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 1: killed hundreds of thousands of Jews. He sent a letter 27 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: bomb to Ralph, wounding the x Nazi. Ellie Cohen was 28 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: probably the only other Massad agent besides Meo working in 29 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: the field to find Nazis, but Cohen's luck turned bad. 30 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 1: Around seven am one morning, military policeman broke into his 31 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: Damascus apartment and found the agent sitting on his bed 32 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: tapping out a message to Massad and a miniature transmitter. 33 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: Cohen managed to throw a bottle of acid on the 34 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: code sheets that he used to communicate with his handlers, 35 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: but he was quickly arrested. Months later, he would be 36 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: brought into the Central Square in Damascus in front of 37 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 1: thousands of spectators and hung. This was all going on 38 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:10,119 Speaker 1: at the same time as MEO's mission. Coin's arrest inevitably 39 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: influenced our mood. Neo remembered it was a grim reminder 40 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: of what could happen to him if he took the 41 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:20,799 Speaker 1: wrong step and his true identity was revealed. If Meo 42 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 1: wasn't careful, he would become the target, hunted down in 43 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: a place far from any help. On his fifth day 44 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: in Stal Paulo, Meo drove to the marina in the 45 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: Interlagos neighborhood in his pocket. He had the letter of 46 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: introduction he had gotten from the company director. As soon 47 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: as he arrived, Mia went to see the guy who 48 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: ran the marina. I was a real pest and bombarded 49 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: him with endless questions. Meo didn't care about the answers. 50 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: He just wanted to impress on the manager how ambitious 51 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: he was. This astring businessman was going to spend a 52 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: lot of money in Brazil. He was very patient, and 53 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: I achieved my goal. He will remember me very well. 54 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: After the meeting, Mia wandered down to the docks, who 55 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: pretended to be relaxing after a day of business. He 56 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: spotted a bunch of rental boats tied up to one 57 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: of the piers that jetted out into the lake, and 58 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: next to it a battered seaplane. It was a sign 59 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: that Meal might have found the right place. Herbert Supers 60 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: was obsessed with aircraft. He built them all his life. 61 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: Next to the dock was a restaurant with a thatched roof. 62 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: Neo strolled over, sat at the table, and ordered a 63 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 1: cold drink. As he sipped it, he kept an eye 64 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: on the pier, looking for signs with the butcher. Nea 65 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: watched the little ticket office at the boat rental business. 66 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 1: He spotted young man working on the boats next to it. 67 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 1: Neil thought it might be one of the butcher's sons. 68 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: He was tempted to finish his drink, strolled down to 69 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,039 Speaker 1: the dock and strike up a conversation with the young man. 70 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 1: Maybe the guy could tell him where Zukers was. Maybe 71 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: the butcher himself would show up. But anything that could 72 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: make him look too eager to meet Sukers that was 73 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: to be avoided. Their meeting had to look casual, as 74 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 1: if it had been a coincidence. Zukerts was looking from 75 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 1: massade operatives. Don't give him a reason to think you're one. 76 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,119 Speaker 1: I must be careful not to be too noticeable. I thought. 77 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,559 Speaker 1: Zukers has been on the run for many years now, 78 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: and there was no reason to jeopardize the operation because 79 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:43,840 Speaker 1: of undue haste. I could come back on Saturday and 80 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: blending in this a general activity, get even closer to 81 00:05:48,600 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: his target. For now, this fus enough. I'm Steven Talty 82 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 1: and this as good assassin's hunting the butcher. Many former 83 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: Nazis were deserting European droves and moving to the safety 84 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: of South America. The first month was fine and not 85 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: bending forwards. Trial. The second son was to find a lay, 86 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: hearing we must thwarts this shameful forces. He hadn't of 87 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: a trail of blood and horror, the end of a 88 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: man whose name will be written in Italy, episode four. 89 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: Acquiring the target. The next day, Meal was back. The 90 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: marina was packed with Brazilians and joined the son. Mio, 91 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 1: who wasn't the water skiing type, went back to the 92 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: restaurant in order to play of oysters. After finishing them, 93 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 1: he walked down the ramp to the docks, looking like, 94 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 1: as he later said, a middle aged man with a 95 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: pot belly who had just consumed a dozen juicy oysters 96 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: and thus taking a stroll to aid his digestion. He 97 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: went up to the Marina's little office. The young woman 98 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: was at the register that morning. He began talking to her, 99 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: asking her questions about the tourist business in the area. 100 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: He spoke in English with a German accent. Young woman 101 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: told him he could speak German to her. She was 102 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: from Dresden, the city of the Allies had bombed during 103 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: the war. She didn't know anything about the tourist business, 104 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: but said that he could speak to someone else. Do 105 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: you see this tall man with a light hair, she asked, 106 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: and she pointed to the dock. A man was busy 107 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: tying up a seaplane to a pole. He's much more 108 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: knowledgeable about such things than I am. Talk to him. 109 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: I'm sure he'd be helpful. Meo turned it saw a 110 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: broad shouldered, older man, powerfully built, working on the dock. 111 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: He had eight hair and the same thick buddy hollyglasses 112 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: that MEO had seen in the surveillance photos. He looked 113 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: like a former athlete. He had a certain swagger on 114 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: the way he moved. It had to be Zookers. Neo 115 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: walked over to the man and said good day in German. 116 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: Zookers turned and expected him from head to toe. Neo 117 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: spoke up my name is Anton Kunz. I'm a businessman. 118 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: It's a friendly young lady. As the ticket booth preferred 119 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: me to you. I'm interested in the tour straight here 120 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,079 Speaker 1: and she she told me you were an expert on 121 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 1: the subject. Zookers didn't react. Well, it was a Saturday. 122 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: He was busy, he needs to make some money, and 123 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: here was this stranger asking these detailed questions. He brushed 124 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: Meo off. The spy had to change his pitch quickly 125 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,199 Speaker 1: where Zookers would lose interest. Nea looked at the seaplane 126 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: bobbing on the waves. Got an idea. He told Zukers 127 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: he'd like to take a flying tour over the city. 128 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: That way, the Butcher could earn some money and Meal 129 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 1: could study him up close. The older man agreed immediately, 130 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:09,079 Speaker 1: my name is Sukars. Please or the plane and that 131 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: was it confirmation. This was indeed the Butcher of Latvia. 132 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: His attitude had changed completely. It was much friendlier now. 133 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: Mio took note. He stepped into the plane. There was 134 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: a small cockpit designed for only two people. Suckers got 135 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 1: in and took the pilot's seat. Mio could tell immediately 136 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: that the aviator was an expert he lived, loved and 137 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:44,719 Speaker 1: breathed airplanes. Neo thought The tour over the city took 138 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 1: about twenty minutes, with Suker's pointing out different landmarks. The 139 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: engine was so loud that Meo could barely hear above it, 140 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: but he pretended to be deeply interested in what Sukers 141 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: had to say. If Anton Kunzla was going to invest 142 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of dollars in the area, he had 143 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 1: looked like he was fascinated by every detail. After they landed, 144 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: Suckers extended an invitation for a quick drink. He asked 145 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: me O onto his boat. They climbed aboard, and Suckers 146 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: brought out some brandy. They clink glasses and drank in 147 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: the little cabin. Neo studied this man. He was a 148 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,079 Speaker 1: huge guy. Neo will talk about this again and again 149 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: in later years. Zukers looked like a bodybuilder with muscled 150 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 1: arms and broadcast. You try not to focus on the 151 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: stories he'd heard about what the butcher had done during 152 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 1: the war. He had to remain objective in character. Anton 153 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: Kuzla had no idea who Herbert Suckers was. Before they 154 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: could talk business, Sukers stared at me O. I'm accused 155 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: of being a war criminal. Me a war criminal after 156 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,319 Speaker 1: I saved the life of a Jewish girl and protected 157 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: her during the Old War. He waited for my reaction. 158 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: I remained impassive. Neo said nothing to this, but his 159 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: mind was going a million miles an hour. Why was 160 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: Suukers bringing this up? They only just met an hour ago. 161 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 1: Was it a test? He guessed that Zukers wanted to 162 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,199 Speaker 1: get an idea of Kunz's views on the war in 163 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 1: the Holocaust. If he was too sympathetic to the Jews, 164 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: Zukers might think he was a Jew himself. If Mio 165 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:31,199 Speaker 1: overdid it and defended the Nazis, it might seem over 166 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 1: the top, a transparent move designed to appeal to an 167 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: accused war criminals. Here tues this day, I cannot comprehend 168 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: but make him think this was a good tactic. Perhaps 169 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 1: he thought I was a former Nazi looking for a 170 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: safe haven. Many former Nazis were deserting European droves and 171 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 1: moving toward the safety of South America. But Mio kept quiet. 172 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: He just said nothing. When he didn't answer, Zukers tried 173 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:03,959 Speaker 1: a different tax. Yes, Mio, if he'd served during the war. 174 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: Mio told him yes, and Zukers asked where he'd been stationed. Yeah. So. 175 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: A former officer from another intelligence service early on in 176 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 1: my career said to me, Chris, rule number one. Rule 177 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 1: number one is you always always have to prepare, you 178 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: never improvise. That's Colonel Chris Costa. He's a former U. S. 179 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: Army intelligence officer, Senior Director for counter Terrorism at the 180 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 1: National Security Council, and currently the executive director of the 181 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: International Spy Museum. Rule number two is, always be prepared 182 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: to improvise. Right, They seem inconsistent, but he was right. 183 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 1: He had a lot of wisdom. Sucers had served in 184 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: Latvia and Western Russia. He fought partisans and Soviet soldiers 185 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: from nineteen forty two onward. Maybe he was trying to 186 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: see if me it was a fake by asking him 187 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: some questions about weapons battles. Who knew you had to 188 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: say something and fast. I served on the Russian Front, 189 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 1: he told Sukers. And then, without even thinking, Neo unbuttoned 190 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 1: his shirt and pulled it open to reveal a scar 191 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: that ran across his chest. It looked like the result 192 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: of a serious bullet wound. Perhaps some shrapnel. Suckers stared 193 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: at it. He seemed impressed. He asked another question about 194 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: which rank Neo held during the war, But after that 195 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: the conversation turned to business. Zukers relaxed and you had 196 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: clearly passed some kind of tests again, Chris Costa. You 197 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: prepare meticulously not to unbutton your shirt and show somebody 198 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: a scar, but when it happens in the moment and 199 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: you're in your cover, you have to be able to 200 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: think on your feet. Your survival depends on it. So 201 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: the best officers are in a role, but they're living 202 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: and breathing that role. Cover is the very air that 203 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 1: you breathe. The scar on his chest, Nea would later 204 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 1: reveal wasn't a war wound at all, was the result 205 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: of a minor operation in Israel to remove an abscess. 206 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: Neo hadn't been wounded during the war, and he'd had 207 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: no idea that he was going to want to do 208 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: the buttons until after he did it. It was like 209 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: this character Anton Kuzla had taken over and told the 210 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: story of his war experiences without Mio even realizing it. 211 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: The Massad agent was deep in the role. He didn't 212 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: have to make these things up like any good actor. 213 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: He was improvising. In the moment, Neo told Suckers that 214 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: he and his partners were thinking of investing heavily in Brazil. 215 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: Zuker's got the hint. If they were going to pour 216 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: money into sal Paolo, they would need a local contact 217 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: who knew the lay of the land, that spoke the language. 218 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 1: Neo never actually said it, but he could see that 219 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: Zukers sensed an opportunity. Maybe there was money to be 220 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: made here. After an hour, the two stood up and 221 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: headed back to the dock. On the way, Zukers asked 222 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: me to come to his house, which wasn't far away, 223 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 1: to meet his family. It was a good sign. Maybe 224 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 1: Zukers had begun just a little bit to trust him. 225 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: But Mea was cautious. He couldn't appear to be chasing 226 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: the butcher. He thought about it for a minute and 227 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: told Seekers he had business in other parts of the country. 228 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: He would be gone for a week. When he came back, 229 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: if he had time to spare, he would call. It 230 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: was the best he could do. They shook hands on it. 231 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: Neia walked away, gotten his rented VW beetle, and left. 232 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: When he reached the hotel, he wrote a report and 233 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: sent it to your reeve. In Paris made contact with 234 00:15:51,160 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: Slate one, I carry on and tom As Meal was 235 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: making contact with suckers in Brazil. On the other side 236 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: of the Atlantic, in Germany, a car was driving along 237 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: the Audubon. Inside was a man named Tuvia Freedman. Freeman 238 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: was headed to the German capital for meeting with the 239 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: Justice minister. He had a presentation to give and if 240 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: he succeeded with it would make Meal's mission completely pointless. 241 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: Tuvia Freedman was a Nazi hunter. In fact, Freeman was 242 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: considered one of the two leading Nazi hunters in the world, 243 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: second only to the more famous activists Simon Well the 244 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: What was my main goal? My main goal was to 245 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: fight against the Nazi med us, who was really Billy 246 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: murdered us of hundreds of thousand, to abolish the suchect 247 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: limitation in Germany, to let the Nazi med Us be imprisoned, 248 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: or to arrest him un till the end of their life. 249 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,640 Speaker 1: Freeman had grown up into small city in eastern Poland, 250 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 1: a place called Radome. He and his family had watched 251 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 1: the Nazis arrive. The Germans soon put them into a 252 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 1: ghetto just seventeen. When the war started, Freeman saw Jews 253 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: being murdered around him. His father starved himself to death 254 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: so that his children would have more to eat. Freeman's 255 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 1: younger brother, Herschel, and his sister Ka, who was his favorite, 256 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: were taken away to concentration camps, and Freedman himself was 257 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:43,920 Speaker 1: transported to a subcamp of Auschwitz. Freedman and four other 258 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: inmates escaped into the Polish countryside. They were nearly starving 259 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: and began digging the dirt for potatoes. The farm's owners 260 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 1: spotted them. The other escape He's wanted to run, but 261 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,639 Speaker 1: Freeman told them to wait. He walked towards the farmer 262 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: and began shouting at him. Listen, you bastard, forget you 263 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 1: ever understand. If you open your mouth, our men will 264 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: burn your whole goddamn the village down to the last 265 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 1: stick of wood to via. Freedman was tough. He didn't 266 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: mind confrontation. In fact, he sought it out. Freedman survived 267 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,159 Speaker 1: the Holocaust by the sheer ferocity of his will, but 268 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 1: his parents, along with Herschel and Ika, didn't survive. After 269 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: the war, many survivors chose to move forward, to emigrate 270 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: to new countries, go back to school, get married, have children. Freedman, though, 271 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: was different. He couldn't move on. He wanted to find 272 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: the people who killed his family and see that they 273 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: were punished and the chaos of the post war period 274 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 1: to via. Freedman hunted down German killers. His specialty was 275 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: Gestapo officers and s S men. If he saw one 276 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: of their black uniforms, he would be filled with the 277 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: rage that sometimes drove him to extremes. He would beat them, 278 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: sometimes kill them. He was a Jewish avenger, the real thing. 279 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:16,640 Speaker 1: Other Nazi hunters never physically put their hands on their enemies. 280 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 1: Friedman did. One time, just after the war, Freedman was 281 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: walking down the street in Vienna when he heard someone 282 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: shouting his name. He was an old friend from his hometown, 283 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 1: which somehow escaped the death camps. They got to talking 284 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: and his friend mentioned this s S man would kill 285 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: thousands of Jews and Radom. His name was buck Meyer. 286 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 1: One of buck Meyer's favorite things had been to rush 287 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: into the camp where Jews were held and beat them 288 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: with a club he carried by his side. Freedman had 289 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 1: watched him execute many people this way. Buck Meyer had 290 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 1: also pulled a group of Jewish children from the camp 291 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: and had them shot on the street just outside. Now, 292 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: Freedman's friend was telling him that he had seen Boutmeyer 293 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: right there in Vienna. In fact, he discovered Bukmeyer owned 294 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: a butcher's shop in the city. Freedman immediately went to 295 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 1: the shop, pretending to be an old friend of the 296 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: s S Man. He questioned a worker and found out 297 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,400 Speaker 1: that Buckmeyer was actually being held in an American pow 298 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: camp miles away, without anyone to identify him, and to 299 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 1: tell the Americans about the atrocities. He committed there was 300 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 1: a good chance Bob Meyer would go free. He'd get 301 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: away with it. Freedman went to the camp. He got 302 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 1: into see the American commander. He told him about book 303 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 1: Meyer's crimes and asked to be put inside the camp 304 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:50,719 Speaker 1: disguised as a German prisoner. The commander told him there 305 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 1: were ten thousand prisoners inside. How was he going to 306 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 1: tell which one was the SS killer. Freedman assured him 307 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 1: this wouldn't be a problem. The man's face was burned 308 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 1: into his memory. Freedman was given an old s S 309 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 1: jacket in a prisoner's uniform, and taken inside the camp 310 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,639 Speaker 1: as if he had just been captured. He made friends 311 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:16,360 Speaker 1: with the German soldier there. Together they had lunch. As 312 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 1: he was watching up after the meal, he saw a 313 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:23,919 Speaker 1: man approaching whistling. It was Buchmeyer. Freeman turned his face away. 314 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: That followed Buchmeyer from the cafeteria. Then he went to 315 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: talk to the American commander. Book Meyer was pulled out 316 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,880 Speaker 1: of his barracks and brought to the major's office where 317 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 1: some American officers were waiting with the Nazi hunter. Freeman 318 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: wrote this in his memoir. I stood up and said 319 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: to the prisoner, but Buchmaier, how could you forget me? 320 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: We were in Radom together, Oh, ydom? He asked, Were 321 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: you in the s S. Two? No? I was not, 322 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 1: I replied, I was one of the Jews who worked 323 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: do your book Mayer. The man's face turned white. Don't 324 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: you remember you used to love to run around with 325 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 1: a heavy club, beating us until the blood covered out 326 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:19,640 Speaker 1: entire bodies. You even had nurses with you who used 327 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: to bandage us up so you could beat us again. Later, 328 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: his lips trembling, book Myer said to me, but I 329 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 1: wasn't the worst one. Was i the Americans through book 330 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: Meyer into solitary confinement. From there, he was sent back 331 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: to Poland, put on trial, convicted, and sentenced to twelve years, 332 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,880 Speaker 1: which he served under the brutal Soviet occupation. This chance 333 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: of escaping justice and returning to his comfortable life at 334 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,959 Speaker 1: the butcher shop was gone for the rest of his life. 335 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: Who was known as a Nazi murderer in war criminal 336 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 1: m In his early twenties to Via, Freeman took a 337 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,679 Speaker 1: position in a Polish intelligence unit in the city of Danzig, 338 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:21,159 Speaker 1: becoming one of the first official Jewish Nazi hunters. He 339 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 1: interrogated German troops, sorting out the Nazi party members and 340 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:29,160 Speaker 1: the regular soldiers and delivering them to prison. He also 341 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: went to investigate crime scenes. Once he went to check 342 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: out a building on the outskirts of Danzig where Nazis 343 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 1: had reportedly held Jewish prisoners, Freeman wrote, one room was 344 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:45,680 Speaker 1: filled with naked corpses. Another room was filled with boards 345 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: on which were stretched human skins. Nearby was a smaller 346 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: building with a heavy paddle. Look we broke in. There 347 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: was an oven in the corner, and it was lumps 348 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: of something on the floor. We realized the Germans had 349 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: been using the room to melt down human fat cut 350 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:20,440 Speaker 1: from their victims to make soap. Part of Freeman's job 351 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: was interviewing former Nazis and sending some of them to jail. 352 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 1: When they wouldn't answer his questions or when they lied 353 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,719 Speaker 1: to him, he got violent. He punched them, drue blood, 354 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 1: broke some bones. He wanted to know the truth, and 355 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 1: if they refused to give it to him, he was unmerciful. 356 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: In fact, that's what his fellow investigators started calling him 357 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: the merciless one. So for the twenty years since the 358 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 1: war ended, Freeman had been hunting Nazis. He didn't mass 359 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: thousands of files on potential suspects, but in Ntour the 360 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: German government was less and less interested in suing them. 361 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: Public opinion had turned against the trials of former Nazis. 362 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: The U S in England now needed Germany as an 363 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 1: ally against the Soviet Union. The Cold War was underway, 364 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,640 Speaker 1: and Germany's friends didn't want to press it too hard 365 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 1: on the Nazi issue. Freedman's obsession, however, only grew. He 366 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,160 Speaker 1: moved to Israel, but kept looking for escape mass killers. 367 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,120 Speaker 1: Even his wife was growing tired of his work, all 368 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: the talk about Nazis and genocide and the rest of it. 369 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 1: He made almost no money, and so she was forced 370 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: to be the sole support for their family. Finally, she 371 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: last out at him, telling him that he was ruining 372 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:46,639 Speaker 1: their lives with this compulsion of his Again from Freeman's memoir, 373 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 1: I said nothing. I was thirty seven years old and defeated. 374 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:59,679 Speaker 1: I felt that my life was a mockery. Even the force. 375 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 1: I had come to the end of the road. I 376 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:11,120 Speaker 1: had a sheer, unscalable mountain confronted me. I was alone, 377 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,159 Speaker 1: but he couldn't give up. Freeman had learned about the 378 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,680 Speaker 1: Statute of Limitations for Nazi war criminals, and he was angry, 379 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:26,679 Speaker 1: frustrated an amnesty that was unthinkable. He had to do something. 380 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: He decided to fly to Germany and meet with the 381 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: Justice minister, whose name was Evolved Booker, to see if 382 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 1: he can convince Booker to come out against the statue. 383 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 1: I had come to the conclusion that it was useless 384 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,920 Speaker 1: for me to spend these last year's searching for twenty 385 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 1: or thirty Nazis, while the Statute of Limitations, if it 386 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,880 Speaker 1: were to go into effect, would permit hundreds of them 387 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: to come out of their hiding and again swagger into 388 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: the beer cellars beyond the arm of the law. I 389 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: could just imagine them beer stein and their wrists, laughing 390 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: and drinking and boasting to each other of their exploits 391 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:16,439 Speaker 1: in killing Jews. So Freedman had come to Germany. The 392 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: place made him nervous. He seemed too much hatred and 393 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,439 Speaker 1: death there. The night before the meeting, he and his 394 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,680 Speaker 1: friend went out to have something to eat and try 395 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,359 Speaker 1: to relax. A German Man at the restaurant nodded to 396 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: them and sat at their table. He was half drunk, 397 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: and he began talking about the war. Freeman recalled the 398 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 1: interaction in a book he wrote about the Statue of Limitations. 399 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: Then everything was bummed and ruined. Now you can see 400 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: the difference. You see the German people, How we have 401 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: reconstructed everything thoroughly. We Germans do everything thoroughly. The man 402 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: toasted them and drank his beer. Something about the German's 403 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 1: manner bothered, Freedman. Are the Germans so thorough at the 404 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: murder as well? The man stared at Freeman, his look 405 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: hard and energetic. Oh, yes, of course, we can murders 406 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: thoroughly as well. Take the juice for example, how he 407 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: murdered them throughout Europe. We only have to get the 408 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: order and we'd do it. Freedman was depressed, but not shocked. 409 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 1: At least the man was being honest. He believed what 410 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,959 Speaker 1: the Germans said, and it made him even more determined 411 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: to stop the amnesty. If genocide was forgiven, he believed 412 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: it would happen again. At the meeting the next day, 413 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 1: the Justice Minister and his aid were very kind. They 414 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: listened intently as Freedman told this story. I told them 415 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: how these s s men made Southern raids in the 416 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 1: early mornings, the people out of the beds and homes 417 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: to the central square, how they threw out infants from 418 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: the windows of their homes, and the bayonetted the young 419 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: mothers who tried to save their children. The assistant pulled 420 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 1: out his kerchief from his breast pocket and started wiping 421 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 1: the tears that were filling his eyes, unable to hold 422 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 1: back his emotions, as I myself seemed to reach an ecstasy, 423 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: as though I was back in the ghetto of Radom 424 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 1: and was going through all the horrors again. The Justice Minister, 425 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: sitting opposite me repeated several times, terrible, Herr Friedman, that 426 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: is really terrible. The minister was called away. While he 427 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: was gone, his assistant lead dover to Freedman told him 428 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: the minister was on his side. He too favored the 429 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 1: cancelation of the statute. He wanted Nazi killers hunted down 430 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: and brought to trial. Freeman was pleasantly surprised. It seemed 431 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: he had an ally within the German government. He was 432 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: wonderful to hear. The meeting finished, and Freedman flew back 433 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: to Israel. Was optimistic if the Justice Minister was on 434 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: his side, he had a chance. Back in South Paulo 435 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 1: Meo booked the play to the Brazilian capital, Brazilia. He 436 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 1: told Sucres he had to visit other parts of Brazil 437 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: for work, so he jumped on the plane and went. 438 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: Anything he told Sucres he actually had to do. It 439 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: was his nature. He couldn't fake it. He flew to 440 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 1: Brazilia and nearly ran into an Israeli diplomat, a man 441 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 1: he knew from back home. If the man had spotted him, 442 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: news cover would have been blown. This was all I needed, 443 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: Israel's ambassador to Brazil, approaching me antoncons respectable Austrian businessman, 444 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 1: just outside the lobby of the most luxurious hotel in 445 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 1: Brazilia calling out, oh that's the price, how are things? 446 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: What are you doing here on your own? Or is 447 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: the Vike with you? Well, it happens sometimes. For example, 448 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 1: it's also happened to me that I landed in Paris 449 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: and I saw my neighbor there and I ignored him. 450 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 1: And when he came back to Israel, he told my 451 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 1: mom that we met in Paris and I didn't even 452 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 1: say hello to him. Okay, that's under Abraham. He's the 453 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 1: former Massad agent who has also become something of an 454 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: historian of the agency. And according to Abraham, every agent 455 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: treads running into someone from their real life while they're 456 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 1: on a mission. But it's a problem when you when 457 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 1: you meet someone that knows you in a different way, 458 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 1: in a different name, you can he can suddenly call 459 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: you. You You feel that you're going to die, because it 460 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: can be a big, big problem. We will turn the 461 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 1: sucked away before the ambassador could recognize him. But in 462 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 1: the next city he visited the same thing. This time 463 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 1: it was the director of l all the Israeli airline. 464 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: Another friend from back home. It was too much for me. You, 465 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,719 Speaker 1: he reminded himself to be on a constant state of alert, 466 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 1: always anticipating the unexpected. He was gone from Sal Paulo 467 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 1: for nearly a week. He had to look like an 468 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: important businessman making deals all over the country. If he 469 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 1: was going to convince Sukers he was the real thing. 470 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: I used my days in Basilia and Bahia to rest 471 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 1: and to gather my strength for what was to come next. 472 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 1: Although almost two weeks at passed since I left my 473 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 1: home and family, I knew that, despite my success is 474 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: so far, the most difficult pout still lay ahead of me. 475 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 1: M It's important to remember that Neo had known people 476 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 1: like the butcher earlier in his life. He'd grown up 477 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 1: in Germany during the rise of Hitler. Mio had seen 478 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 1: something coming in Germany in the early thirties. He'd seen 479 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 1: it in the faces of his German teachers and his classmates, 480 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 1: and he'd left it behind. But his parents had stayed, 481 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 1: and they'd never made it out as I had researched 482 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 1: Mio's life and wondered how he felt about that. If 483 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: he'd ever felt guilty about leaving his mother and father behind, 484 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: but there was really nothing a teenage boy would have 485 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 1: been able to do to help them. Nazi soldiers had 486 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 1: come to his family's house and put his parents on 487 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 1: the train to the death camps. Now he was getting 488 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 1: to know a Nazi, being friendly, even drinking with him. 489 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 1: I wondered how Mio felt about that. Here's get Shamron, 490 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: the ex Massad agent, knew me a well. After the war, 491 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 1: he found himself alone in the world of family, hearing 492 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:11,920 Speaker 1: about the terrible fortune and destiny of European jury, including 493 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:18,759 Speaker 1: his parents, and one can understand why running after a 494 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:23,759 Speaker 1: Nazis for him was something more than a mission. The 495 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: other Messoigy and I spoke to after Abraham agreed. He 496 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 1: said that Mio kept his parents in his mind constantly. 497 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,919 Speaker 1: He actually dreamt about them. During the mission, they met 498 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: many of the political survivors from different places, and most 499 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:43,279 Speaker 1: of them cannot live at night. They have bad dreams 500 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,239 Speaker 1: almost every night. And he also used to have a 501 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:50,239 Speaker 1: bed dreams and to dream about his parents. So for 502 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: him is something that he cannot talkot and he cannot 503 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 1: talk him. Neo told Gad Shimran that when he was 504 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:05,400 Speaker 1: given the mission in September to assassinate Herbert Suckers. It 505 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: was like reopening a book, the unfinished story of his 506 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: parents and their faith during the war. There was he 507 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: felt a final chapter to be written. When Meo returned 508 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 1: to Salth Paulo following his business trip, he fixed the 509 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:29,760 Speaker 1: Butcher in his sights. Now he needed to set the trap. 510 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: Ye good assassins. Hunting the Butcher is a production of 511 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 1: Diversion Podcasts in association with I Heart Radio. This season 512 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,920 Speaker 1: is written and hosted by Stephen Talti, produced and directed 513 00:35:55,920 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 1: by Scott Waxman and Jacob Bronstein. Executive producers Scott Waxman 514 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:05,279 Speaker 1: and Mark Francis. Story editing by Jacob Bronstein with editorial 515 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:09,720 Speaker 1: direction from Scott Waxman and mangesh At. Ticket editing, mixing 516 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 1: and sound designed by Mark Francis, with the voices of 517 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:18,920 Speaker 1: Nick Afka, Thomas Armory, Angle, Andrew Polk, Mindy Escobar, Leants, 518 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:24,440 Speaker 1: Steve Routman and Stefan Rudnitsky. Theme music by Tyler Cash. 519 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:29,839 Speaker 1: Archival research by Adam Shapiro. Special thanks to Oran Rosenbaum 520 00:36:29,920 --> 00:37:29,280 Speaker 1: at ut A. Diversion Podcasts