WEBVTT - Justin Wolfers & Gov. Tim Walz 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:04.160 Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:07.120 where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:12.719 today's best minds. And Donald Trump has now overseen over 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:18.079 a million corporate job losses, the worst since two thousand 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:22.000 and three. We have such a great show for you today. 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:27.319 The think like an economist Justin Wolfers joins us to 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:31.200 talk about Trump's economy and why it's so bad at 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:37.839 giving numbers. Then we'll talk to former vice presidential candidate 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:42.440 Governor Tim Walls about how the government shutdown is affecting 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:47.080 his citizens. But first the news. 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:50.880 Smy the Trump administration, they just love starving poor people. 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:52.920 You know, we all know the cruelty is the point. 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:56.240 We've gotten the memo. But my god, they're ordered to 0:00:56.320 --> 0:00:59.400 pay snap payments. They could just say, all right, we 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:02.160 can see, will give the poor some things that they're 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:05.040 like now, got to make sure they suffer. Got to 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:07.759 make sure that there's as much harm inflicted on these 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:08.760 people as possible. 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:12.039 So this is the first time ever that a government 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:16.160 has just decided not to pay snap benefits. The money 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:19.920 is there, like the Trump administration is is old hat 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:23.520 at like having money refusing to use it. It's not 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:26.000 their money. I mean, the thing I love about Donald 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:27.760 Trump is like he's like, you know, he's like the 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:30.480 rich dad being like, no, it's not for you, but 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:33.520 it's not yours, daddy. It's not your money, it's the 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:37.000 taxpayer's money. His administration is now fighting with the courts 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:39.800 about whether or not he has to pay SNAP benefit. 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:44.400 Forty percent of SNAP recipients are children, twenty percent are 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:49.160 the elderly, ten percent are disabled. They will go to 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:51.960 the grocery store and their Snap cards will have no 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:54.920 money on them. That is because of Donald J. 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:55.280 Trump. 0:01:55.560 --> 0:02:00.680 If you have a clearer explanation of how Donald Trump 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:03.720 is just fucking people overloved right by the way, Ice 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:09.160 still having their student loan debt paid, Okay, riddle me this, 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:12.840 like who is this for besides Elon Musk who will 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:14.720 soon be a trillionaire. 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:18.800 Yeah, and let's remember all the air traffic controllers not 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:22.480 getting paid right now, all the congressional employees not getting 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:24.960 paid right now but still have to work. 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:29.720 And members of Congress getting paid. Mike Johnson, my man, 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:32.320 he's making his full paycheck. 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:35.919 My wife is out literally helping people in the streets 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:38.920 for free. That as mandated by her job, but not 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:42.560 getting a paycheck as we speak. Yes, So by I 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:48.960 don't normally recommend House Democrats imitating a guy who's on 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:53.440 videotape abusing his wife, who then became a meme because 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:56.880 he'd say change my mind and set college campuses where 0:02:56.880 --> 0:02:59.280 a grown man would fight with college students. But I 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:03.280 have to say what Arizona repens Sorry did here by 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:07.919 trolling Mike Johnson and making it realize Mike Johnson's choosing 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:10.640 to keep the government shut down. I say more trolling 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:11.200 like this. 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:14.120 So she's a member of Congress. She sat down in 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:19.240 front of Mike Johnson's office in a table with a 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:21.960 placard on the front that had written on it Mike 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:24.760 Johnson is starving families and gutting health care to cover 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:27.839 up the Epstein files. Change my mind. It's a sort 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:32.360 of a homage to evil Stephen Crowder, who used to 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:34.960 do that in college campuses. But the point of it 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:38.000 is that it actually really got people talking, and then 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:41.680 it got Mike Johnson playing c span in front of 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:45.480 his office as a way to try to dispel it, 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:48.840 which ended up having more people coming to talk to her, 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:52.200 which ended up creating more attention. And again, like you know, 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:55.760 we talk so much about like how politicians can break through, 0:03:55.960 --> 0:04:00.400 how democrats can connect with voters, and like we see 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:04.000 lots of different ways that politicians can do it, even 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:09.520 like from Jared Moskowed's to Chris Murphy to Bernie Sanders, 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:12.520 Like this is another way in which like if you think, 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:15.640 if you're thinking in a creative way, then you can 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:18.400 actually connect. And there are a lot of members of 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.920 Congress and well, you know, Mike Johnson sent a lot 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:24.160 of people home. There are still some people that are there. 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:26.240 A lot of the Democrats are still there, and like 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:29.400 this was an effective way I think to break through. 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:30.320 So good for her. 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:33.400 Yeah. So another thing, you know, there's been a lot 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:36.640 of talk about socialist rule in this country and how 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:39.440 you know the socialists are getting in charge. And by 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:42.080 that I mean Donald Trump saying that he wants a 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:43.919 piece of neurodisc. 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:49.920 So Donald Trump is amazing because whatever is happening in 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:52.800 his brain, he has no filter and he just says 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:56.480 whatever he thinks. So there was a pressor Donald Trump 0:04:56.600 --> 0:04:59.320 and his administration got them to cut the cost of 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:02.760 these weight laws drugs, which is good. And then one 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:05.240 of the people on the wave loss drugs, passed out 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:08.800 and then RFK Junior ran out of the room. He 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:13.880 chap aquidict died out of there, slid But it's so good. 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:15.240 It's a really good joke. 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:19.400 Damn yeah, we see saw someone those Kennedy's when there's 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:22.040 a medical emergency, those are not your people. And then 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:25.360 Donald Trump fell asleep at his desk. But between all 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:27.600 of those things, that was one of the great meetings. 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:30.760 Truly, many people are saying the greatest. 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:33.719 One of the greatest. My favorite was when doctor Oz 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:37.719 was like, obesity can lead to dementia and pan to 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:38.839 Donald Trump. 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:43.520 Literally slumped down in his seat like me during history 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:45.680 class at eighth grade, just straight. 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:49.960 There, very very tired. So anyway, he did make this 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:52.240 is he made a threat. One of his favorite. He's 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:59.000 very into socialism. He said to the CEO, maybe you 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:01.560 should give us a PE's of the company, like I've 0:06:01.560 --> 0:06:04.840 been asking for, give the United States a nice big 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:07.600 chunk of the company. By the way, in case you're wondering, 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:11.000 he doesn't want it for the United States. He wants 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:14.200 it for Donnie and Eric Somali. 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:19.600 We have two big, big Democratic congressional retirements in two 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:21.600 different ways. Nancy Pelosi. 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:25.040 Yeah, Nancy Pelosi will not seek re election to Congress 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:29.680 after forty years in Washington. She's eighty five. She'd stepped 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:35.320 down from leadership. She is now leaving the party. Probably 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:38.560 the most effective speaker of the House we've ever had. 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:43.440 Love her, hate her, feel very betrayed by her husband 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:44.400 stock Trading. 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:48.080 Can we pour one out for four h four Media's headlight, 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:50.240 one of the greatest headlines of all time, one of 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:53.440 the greatest Wall Street investors of all time, announces retirement. 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:57.160 I mean, yes, that was bad, but she also did 0:06:57.200 --> 0:06:57.920 some good stuff. 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:01.120 I agree, I agree, but also we could laugh at that. 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:04.800 We can like love our politicians and also know that 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:07.440 they are often less than perfect. 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:10.680 So as well, though, somebody you love to bring up 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:14.120 on this podcast as a Congressman from main secred district, 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:17.800 which is an R plus four district. Representative Jared Golden 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:20.120 is retiring and many people are worried that this is 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:22.160 a seat that Dems cannot win without him. 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:25.760 Yeah, who knows he's retiring. I don't know how happy 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:28.720 he was. Ever, the times that I met him, he 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:32.200 seems super unhappy. There's a lot of blaming going on 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:36.080 of whether people pushed him to drop out or I 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:36.520 don't know. 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:39.280 Are you telling me people are unhappy being a congressperson. 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:40.280 That's such a great job. 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:43.800 Everybody wants it like such a good job. But we'll see. 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:46.680 I mean again, he's dropping out. That's too bad. There 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:49.920 is going to be an open govenmentorial. There's going to 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:51.720 be you know, there's a lot of stuff to run 0:07:51.720 --> 0:08:00.000 for in Maine right now. Justin Wolfers is the host 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:03.800 to be Thinking Like an Economist podcast and a professor 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:07.400 at the University of Michigan. Welcome back to Fast Polity. 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:14.200 It's Justin Wlfer's So the great news for the Trump 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:17.480 administration is when the government is shut down, you don't 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:19.360 get the numbers right. 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:23.880 Just like how we solved COVID so exactly numbers, no problems. 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:26.760 But it was he had already before shutting down. In 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:30.000 Trump's defense, before shutting down the government, he had fired 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:32.320 the head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics. 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:35.800 He made his position on data very clear. He's against it. 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:36.800 Yeah. 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:38.640 He also has very strong position on truth. 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:42.840 That's right optional. He likes truthiness. 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:45.199 Yep, in small doses and only occasionally yes. 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:47.959 At this point, does the government give us public data. 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:51.360 Still not really or yes or talk us through it. 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:53.280 It's a very sad day. So I'm going to make 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:55.760 this personal if I may. Molly is I've been a 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:57.920 nerd for a very long time. When I left college, 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:01.239 my first deviate job was at the Reserve Bank of Australia. 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:04.360 And when you have a like the FED, and when 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:06.240 you get a job as a baby economist, they give 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:08.280 you one tiny sliver of the economy to look after. 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:11.040 And my job was the job's report. And so even 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:13.200 as a little baby economist, I would wake up. 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:16.200 In a text say country in a very. 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:20.640 In a magnificent and beautiful country with a functional democracy 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:23.520 and a well functioning economy, you don't love it anymore, 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:26.600 which I have family and think about during an anna 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:30.160 able winter. The job was like it would be jobs Day, 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:32.760 and I would wake up excited for jobs Day, even 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:35.120 as a twenty two year old. And then I moved 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:37.360 to America and I did my PhD, and you know, 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:39.240 you forget about the real world for a little while. 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:42.160 And then my better half, Betsy Stevenson, became the chief 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:45.080 economist at the Department of Labor, and so it became 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:48.200 this thing Friday, The first Friday of every month was 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:50.040 Job's Day, and she had to get in early and 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:52.360 brief the labor secretary and talk to the media and 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:54.679 crunch the numbers for what was then the first a 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:58.480 Bama administration, and so jobs. There was such a big 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:01.240 day in our household. And then I was writing for 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:02.679 New York Times, and I used to write about the 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:07.200 jobs numbers, and it was all very exciting, and it stays. 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:10.120 It's just a regular part of our monthly life ever since, 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:12.920 to the point that I literally our nanny would walk 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:15.800 in and say, Oh, it's a job's day today, how 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:20.520 are you feeling about the economy? And today I woke 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:25.040 up and it's the first Friday of the month, and 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:29.679 there was an enormous void in my life, the sense 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:33.240 of checking in on the workers and seeing how they're doing, 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:37.960 of hoping that the economy is moving forward and producing 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:40.360 more for more of us, of wondering what's next, of 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:43.559 thinking about policies that could make a difference. I did 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:45.520 none of that. I sat in the dark room, staring 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:48.600 at the corner, rocking backward and forward, crying, just one 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:52.760 solitary tear down my cheek, talk us through this. 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:55.600 We don't have the government data, but we do have 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:58.920 some private data. Does that fill the void or does not? 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:03.520 It's sort of like, you know, when mum and dad 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:06.560 get divorced and then mum starts dating a new guy, 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:09.000 but she's not really sure that he's going to be 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:11.160 around for very long, and maybe they've been dating two 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:15.160 months and he takes you out to the zoo. That 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:20.080 is the ADP Job Report. The ADGP job report is 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:24.880 not something well loved, has no particular track record, is 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:27.840 not particularly reliable, and when you need it, you don't 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:29.280 know if it'll always be there for you. 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:31.280 So no, we don't. 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:33.240 There's going to be a lot of press attention around 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:35.600 the ADP Job Report, and it came in yesterday, it 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:39.199 was or the day before. It was not as bad 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:43.600 as the past few have been, but still the important 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:45.880 thing is not the comparison with are you as bad 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:48.640 as last month? But are you good or bad? It 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:52.160 was unequickly pointing to a weak economy, but I don't 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:55.040 want anyone to place much stock in it. It is 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:59.160 a very unreliable indicator. So the truth is we're all 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:03.400 alone in the dock right now. I hope this doesn't 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:05.079 sound like I'm talking about my childhood. 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:09.000 So I want you to I need you to sort 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:14.040 of pull back from the job support into what you 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:17.080 think the economy. So we have a federal government that's 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:21.840 pretty hostile, that's a the longest shutdown ever, be pretty 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:26.200 hostile to facts, reason truth. So how do you figure 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:29.160 out where the economy is? Knowing those two sayings? 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:33.440 Okay, so the good news, then the bad news. The 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:35.600 good news is the government data is not the only 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:38.320 data that we have. I did warn you a moment 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:41.640 ago that private sick the data about the state of 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:43.760 the labor market is not as good as government data, 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:47.760 and that's absolutely stunningly true. So we have lost some 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:51.520 very important things. There do exist many other data sets. 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:54.440 For instance, the Federal Reserve, which is not affected by 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:57.040 the shutdown, collects industrial production, and so we know how 0:12:57.080 --> 0:12:59.679 much stuff is coming out of factories. We're not going 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:01.840 to be getting GDP data, but we are going to 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:05.880 continue to see surveys of companies telling us how they're doing. 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:09.160 We have all sorts of things about our daily lives 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:11.240 and measured in all sorts of ways. We know restaurant 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:14.319 reservations through open table, and we've got a lot of 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:16.280 practice of this during the pandemic, when a lot of 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:18.880 our normal ways of thinking about the economy were broken. 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:22.160 What are some creative ways. So the good news is 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:25.360 we're not purely in the dark. The bad news is 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:29.280 it's pretty damn foggy, which is it's going to be 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:31.280 very hard to have any great sense of what's going 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:36.480 on that really really matters right now. Why right now? 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:40.079 Because it's possible, but by no means certain that we're 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:42.679 at a turning point. It's possible that. Remember we've been 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:44.400 talking about tariffs for eight months, and I know I've 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:47.800 brought everyone on this, but actually Trump has only really 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:50.320 truly imposed them a couple of months ago, and so 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:52.120 if they're going to have an effect, it would be 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:55.480 any day now. We are seeing some hints that the 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:58.400 economy is slowed right off, not just because of tariff's 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:00.360 by the way, but also we've had a huge to 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:04.000 immigration and new people create new stuff, and so that's 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:06.280 something that's really going to be missing as well. Those 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:10.480 are two enormous shocks that are hitting the economy right now. 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:12.640 And we do know enough to know that the economy 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:15.520 was slowing, and the question is are we slowing into 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:18.640 comfortable or are we slowing into a recession and we 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:20.920 actually have no way of knowing that right now, which 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:23.200 is a very very uncomfortable place to be in. 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:26.880 Yeah, that does not sound good. And then the other question, 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:30.480 which you know, people will be listening to this podcast 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:34.480 on Saturday morning and we will be in the middle 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:40.640 of what Sean Duffy lovingly refers to as airplane armageddon, 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:44.760 where they basically just slow down air traffic because vibes. 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:49.000 So that seems like it could have larger consequences to 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:49.760 the economy. 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:51.960 Well, you usually bring me in for the stuff that 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:54.840 you feel less confident on, and that's usually macroeconomics. You 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:57.600 feel terrific on finance, and when it comes to fashion, wow, 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:02.240 and politics for sure, and peace on gender. I thought 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:03.720 the other in the New York Times. I love that 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:06.960 l Thank you. So you want to talk about macroeconomics. 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:09.600 And the truth is that the government shutdown is going 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:12.400 to be a small impact in terms of its overall 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:15.760 macro stuff, right, So the headlines aren't going to change 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:18.920 a lot. That's position one. Position two that's also true 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:25.440 is every single holiday that's destroyed, every snap beneficiary who 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:27.920 went to bed, hungry and fearful last night. 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:31.960 Right, and that's started now. SNAP. The Trump administration is 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:35.120 not funding SNAP, even though federal judges have told them 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:35.600 they have to. 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:38.080 So then they should be. And I don't you know, 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:40.120 none of us will believe it until the money's on 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:42.920 the card, which means the most vulnerable people in our 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:46.160 society who have no stockpile of cash, no. 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:51.280 Waves, forty percent of which are children, elderly, and ten 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:52.320 percent are disabled. 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:53.760 Let's just pause on that for a moment. 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:58.480 Mine, yeah, and FYI are white like even. 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:01.200 That, we know that is and should be irrelevant. Let's 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:04.640 pull on the very human thing you said. It's profoundly important. 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:07.640 Many of our listeners, just like you and I Moly, 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:11.200 are fortunate enough. We're doing okay economically, and so we 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:14.560 don't think about how will I go to the grocery 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:16.640 store next week? What can I afford to buy? 0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:17.600 What is in the covert? 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:21.040 But we do notice, I mean, I certainly noticed that 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:25.600 my grocery bells are humongous, like crazy high compared to 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:29.440 what I mean, there are much more, and if we're 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:32.160 noticing it, it means it's real. Everywhere. 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:35.280 Food prices are up about three percent over the past year. 0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:39.680 I am profoundly disgusted by anyone who can take the 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:42.760 most vulnerable and make them pawns in the political game. 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:44.320 Why don't we just have a. 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:47.360 Different kind of shutdown where tax cuts for millionaires get 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:49.880 put off for a few weeks. I mean, it's only 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:52.720 a weird accident, and well it's not even a weed accident. 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:55.720 It's also the illegality and then the approach to the administration. 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:58.600 But it's one of the most awful things I've seen 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:01.200 the American government do to its own people. And it 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:03.640 doesn't need to do it. There's money there, we know 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:05.760 how to spend it. I also want to pan back 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:07.840 because Molly, you're also you know, you're like, oh, what's 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:09.160 the fifth of the chapter, and you think about next 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:11.240 quarter's GDP When we go back to the things that 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:13.960 you were talking about, things like we no longer have 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:19.400 statistical agencies that are being told it's important to tell 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:22.040 the truth. Now so far they are telling the truth, 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:23.720 and they want to remind our listeners of that. But 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:26.040 when you fire the head of the BLS for no reason, 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:28.679 you're sending them a message. You can stop with that 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:35.080 truth stuff. When you have CEOs of major corporations walk 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:38.000 into the White House and walk out ten minutes later 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:40.359 with ten percent less of their company. When you have 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:41.880 the present. 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:44.240 Telling them that it's called socialism. 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:49.440 It's called something asm and you have the administration ignoring 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:53.240 the courts when you have real questions, when you have 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:57.119 ice on the streets. All of this stuff. None of 0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:00.640 it shows up in this quarter's GDP. But it's more 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:03.919 important than anything that shows up in next quarter's GDP. 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:08.000 That is not a political statement. That is an economic statement. 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:12.280 That is a statement that, on average, the average populist 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:14.800 leader over the last hundred years, when you elect them 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:17.920 a decade later, has led GDP to be about fifteen 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:20.880 percent lower. Let me say that more human terms. GDP's 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:25.879 a fancy word for you elect Trump like characters, and 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:30.000 history shows that a decade later, average income is fifteen 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:33.040 percent lower, and he could be worse. When you look 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:36.040 at these big questions, what makes the United States rich 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:38.920 and the country of my birth, which was Papulnian Guinea poor, 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:43.280 It's really about state capacity. It's about how we run 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:47.480 our economy. It's our political and economic institutions, and they're 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:51.000 all being burned down right now. None of that is 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:53.520 going to be next quarter's GDP. But everything we know 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:57.639 about how economies work tell us this is overwhelmingly the 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:00.679 most important thing going on. You can't see it, but 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:02.480 what we will know is that our kids are going 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:05.760 to wake up in ten or twenty years time and 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:09.160 the opportunities in front of them are going to simply 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:13.159 not be there. And it's these unborn opportunities. It's the 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:16.440 new ideas, the new industries that just simply never happened, 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:18.200 and that's the real cost and. 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:19.439 The problems in China. 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:22.800 I am trying to figure out how you tell this story, 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:26.280 so I need your help because it's not a story. 0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:29.840 It's economic research. This is findings from serious people studying 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:33.119 hundreds of years of economic history among every country around 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:36.840 the world. And it's not so obvious, but this is 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:39.199 Folks like Emily do a great job telling it as 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:41.640 a political story, but this is an economic story as well. 0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:46.040 And the American poor will be poorer as a result 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:49.959 of our pie being smaller as a result of everything 0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:50.480 that's going on. 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:55.320 Yeah, thank you, Elon mush. So let's talk about where 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:58.320 we are right now. When it comes to we don't 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:01.520 have the data, we have have these tariffs. We have 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:05.639 the Supreme Court fight, this insane Supreme Court fight whether 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:08.920 Donald Trump has the power to do everything he's ever 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:12.480 wanted to do period paragraph. The questions with the Supreme Court, 0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:15.639 this case, this tariff case, are so big because the 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:18.879 courts could side that Trump doesn't have the economic power 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:21.879 to do these things and it could not necessarily matter, 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:25.320 right Like they could say he has time to pay back, 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:27.640 or he has this, or is that. So I would 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:30.280 love it if you could explain to us, don't predict 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:34.840 the future, but just lay out what the possible lanes are. 0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:36.879 I think what you just says. Can you be an 0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:38.680 economics professor for about five. 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:41.040 Minutes, but I'm the Supreme Court case. 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:46.120 Yeah, okay. So here's the critical things for people to understand. 0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:49.880 The Constitution. So the Constitution gives the power to tax 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:53.399 to Congress. Congress has delegated some of those authorities to 0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:55.639 the White House because Congress understands that Congress is not 0:20:55.720 --> 0:20:58.399 very nimble, and so for things like national security and 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:00.560 so on, you can live in new tariffs through the 0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:01.840 White House without Congress. 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:03.640 There's a process. But that's it. 0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:07.119 Trump decided he granted himself a new set of powers 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:10.240 that had never been used before. All of the tariffs 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:12.960 that are on individual countries, on China, on Canada, and 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:16.560 actually on every country around the world. Eighty percent of 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:20.160 what he's done has been country by country tariffs. There's 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:23.600 no legal authority for that. Trump claims he gets one 0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:27.240 through what's called the Emergency Powers Act. The Emergency Powers 0:21:27.280 --> 0:21:30.280 Act is two things are really important about it. One, 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:32.760 no where does it mention the word tariff or tax. 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:36.600 You're suit a stickler for these words. And wait. 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:39.240 Second, well, good that you're thinking about that, because the 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:41.600 second thing is stickler for words. It's called the Emergency 0:21:41.680 --> 0:21:45.000 Powers Act. Yeah, so I know he wants the powers. 0:21:45.000 --> 0:21:47.280 I think that means you got to have the emergency. 0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:51.120 As just as Amy brought up, what is the national 0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:55.199 security reason for now? You could say Tokyo, you know, 0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:57.720 you could say Japan, but then you can't also. 0:21:57.520 --> 0:22:00.639 Say tariff's'm bananas, right, you know? 0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:06.120 And me and Italy like it has it out? 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:08.960 What about the aggression coming from north of the border 0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:14.359 as Canadians far out won the World lost the World 0:22:14.400 --> 0:22:17.439 Series even thank you, Yes, that's good. So those are 0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:20.280 the central issues I listened to the Supreme Court argument. 0:22:20.760 --> 0:22:23.600 They actually focused almost exclusively on the first days, which 0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:26.920 was does the Emergency Powers Act give the President the 0:22:27.000 --> 0:22:31.520 right over tariffs. The government's view was, Oh, if tariffs 0:22:31.520 --> 0:22:34.400 work properly, no one will ever buy anything from abroad, 0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:37.600 which means we'll collect no revenue. So therefore the revenue 0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:41.439 is merely incidental. This is about regulating other countries. The 0:22:41.640 --> 0:22:43.400 justices fought back and they said, if you want people 0:22:43.440 --> 0:22:45.440 to not buy from other countries, here's a simple thing, 0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:49.080 have an embargo. So it was the Boston tea Party, 0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:52.320 not the Boston embargo Party, was sort of the claim. So, 0:22:52.600 --> 0:22:54.560 in fact, the government made up a new word. It 0:22:54.600 --> 0:22:56.000 took me a long time to realize they made up 0:22:56.000 --> 0:23:00.360 a new word. They talked about revenue tariffs versus regulatory tariffs. 0:23:00.880 --> 0:23:03.760 One of these there's actually only tariffs a book behind me. 0:23:03.800 --> 0:23:05.960 On the bookshelf I might have written. It defines a 0:23:06.000 --> 0:23:09.679 tariff as attacks on imports. It is a tax. So 0:23:09.720 --> 0:23:12.000 the government wants to claim there's something called a regulation tariff. 0:23:12.040 --> 0:23:15.160 It's literally a word. They just invent it. Yeah, doesn't exist. 0:23:15.760 --> 0:23:18.240 So that's where most of the argument was. The justices 0:23:18.280 --> 0:23:21.359 were pretty hostile because when Congress wants to get rid 0:23:21.359 --> 0:23:23.600 of its taxing powers. It tends to be very very 0:23:23.800 --> 0:23:26.440 very clear, and it didn't even use the word here. 0:23:27.240 --> 0:23:29.199 But then you still get to the second problem, which is, 0:23:29.280 --> 0:23:31.200 even if it had the power, does Trump have a 0:23:31.280 --> 0:23:35.160 national emergency? This is where as an economist, the administration says, 0:23:35.160 --> 0:23:37.719 we have a national emergency because we have a trade 0:23:38.440 --> 0:23:41.760 unbalanced trade with specific countries. That's what it's called a 0:23:41.800 --> 0:23:47.480 bilateral trade deficit. No economist alive thinks they matter. Not 0:23:47.600 --> 0:23:50.240 even do we not think they're an emergency. We don't 0:23:50.240 --> 0:23:51.320 even think they're interesting. 0:23:51.520 --> 0:23:54.359 So even like a Kevin Hasset. 0:23:54.600 --> 0:23:57.840 Even Kevin Hasset, if you tied him down and injected 0:23:57.920 --> 0:24:02.280 him with honesty juice, yeah, Asset, it would take a 0:24:02.280 --> 0:24:03.320 lot of honesty Jews. 0:24:03.520 --> 0:24:05.080 What about Stephen Moore? 0:24:06.320 --> 0:24:07.679 So stupid that it hurts? 0:24:07.960 --> 0:24:09.480 I mean, I just want to know who is the 0:24:09.600 --> 0:24:11.240 dumbest MAGA economist. 0:24:11.680 --> 0:24:13.320 I am going to be really nice. 0:24:13.440 --> 0:24:15.240 I'm just gonna say I'm glad that there are people 0:24:15.440 --> 0:24:17.480 now I can't even say nice things. I'm just going 0:24:17.560 --> 0:24:19.919 to stay out of that. But like serious point for 0:24:19.960 --> 0:24:22.880 the audience, what happens when a new administration comes to 0:24:22.880 --> 0:24:25.480 town is usually they recruit the best and the brightest 0:24:26.200 --> 0:24:28.480 every administration, not only in my lifetime, in the previous 0:24:28.480 --> 0:24:30.240 fifty years. You can look at who was the chair 0:24:30.280 --> 0:24:32.520 of the Council of Economic Advisors, Who were the nerds 0:24:32.520 --> 0:24:35.080 and the wonks around the president, and they were the 0:24:35.119 --> 0:24:38.119 best and brightest of their generation. Many a former Nobel 0:24:38.160 --> 0:24:40.800 Prize winners, for ins a Nobel Prize winners, for instance. 0:24:41.240 --> 0:24:43.159 What we have in the current White House is you 0:24:43.200 --> 0:24:46.159 can take any ranking of the horsepower of economists, and 0:24:46.240 --> 0:24:49.240 many exist. By the way, there is no one in 0:24:49.280 --> 0:24:53.399 the White House who is in America's ten thousand best economists. 0:24:53.880 --> 0:24:56.320 That's not a hint of exactly, that's a quantitative statement. 0:24:56.560 --> 0:25:00.600 They've gone dragging through the gutter. Stupid is jupid does? 0:25:01.280 --> 0:25:03.240 I don't want to be that guy. I hate being 0:25:03.280 --> 0:25:06.439 that guy. But it's not a well advised White House. 0:25:07.600 --> 0:25:09.520 Maybe in competence is part of the strategy. 0:25:09.960 --> 0:25:12.200 We're at a time. What are you going to watch 0:25:12.240 --> 0:25:16.359 for over the next couple of weeks, economic indicators, what's 0:25:16.359 --> 0:25:17.200 coming down the pike. 0:25:17.800 --> 0:25:19.399 I think the most interesting thing is going to be 0:25:19.400 --> 0:25:22.560 the Supreme Court tariff case. It's probably going to happen quickly, 0:25:22.600 --> 0:25:25.879 according to the legal nerds I talked to, not tomorrow quickly, 0:25:25.920 --> 0:25:29.119 but maybe you know even before Thanksgiving. That'd be amazing, 0:25:29.160 --> 0:25:32.399 wouldn't it. Have you Thanksgiving talk about tariffs around the Turkey. If, 0:25:32.720 --> 0:25:36.040 as I expect, the Trump tarift's areroyalt illegal, we're going 0:25:36.080 --> 0:25:40.280 to move from eight months of unconstitutional, illegal tariff turmoil 0:25:40.359 --> 0:25:43.600 that have created all sorts of headaches to a whole 0:25:43.640 --> 0:25:46.280 new set of tariff turmoil, some of which in the 0:25:46.280 --> 0:25:50.560 future may even be constitutional. But it'll be this crazy, 0:25:50.640 --> 0:25:54.000 crazy soap opera in which the president tries to run 0:25:54.280 --> 0:25:56.920 an economy by pretending he and he alone can move 0:25:56.960 --> 0:26:02.080 the pieces around the global economy chessboard. So if you 0:26:02.200 --> 0:26:06.520 think you've seen myhem strapping this plenty more ahead. 0:26:06.840 --> 0:26:09.440 I was told trade wars are good and easy to win. 0:26:10.240 --> 0:26:11.520 Thank you, justin. 0:26:11.720 --> 0:26:12.359 Thank you, Molly. 0:26:14.520 --> 0:26:18.720 Governor Tim Walls is a former vice presidential candidate and 0:26:19.040 --> 0:26:24.000 the governor of the great state of Minnesota. Welcome back 0:26:24.359 --> 0:26:26.639 too fast Politics, Governor Walls. 0:26:27.000 --> 0:26:29.160 It's good to be with you, Molly. It's been too long, 0:26:29.400 --> 0:26:32.199 but you had a whole row of great guests you've 0:26:32.240 --> 0:26:34.040 had on so glad to be back. 0:26:34.240 --> 0:26:36.240 I just wanted to talk to you. I just felt 0:26:36.240 --> 0:26:40.920 like we needed to catch up about how and there's 0:26:40.960 --> 0:26:46.320 something about this particular moment in American life after this, 0:26:46.520 --> 0:26:49.600 you know, we're talking in the week of the twenty 0:26:49.720 --> 0:26:52.840 twenty five cycle, which was a tiny, tiny cycle, but 0:26:52.920 --> 0:26:56.000 a huge repudiation of trump Ism. 0:26:56.320 --> 0:26:59.040 Absolutely, And look it helps me process too, because I 0:26:59.119 --> 0:27:01.920 keep thinking, you know, year ago, we needed to see 0:27:01.920 --> 0:27:05.160 these numbers, but these candidates and the American people showed 0:27:05.240 --> 0:27:07.639 up in huge numbers. We were just talking. You know, 0:27:07.680 --> 0:27:10.639 we now have the most female governors we've ever had 0:27:10.680 --> 0:27:16.159 in American history, with Governor Alex Banberger and Cheryl and 0:27:16.200 --> 0:27:18.120 then of course, you know winning in New York City 0:27:18.560 --> 0:27:21.520 governor's race. The party is broad and we're proud of that. 0:27:21.880 --> 0:27:24.680 But I just think for me, it was just good 0:27:24.720 --> 0:27:27.480 to see what we all knew, that the American people 0:27:27.520 --> 0:27:31.000 at heart are kinder people, They care more, that this 0:27:31.280 --> 0:27:34.159 cruelty and this stuff isn't what they're looking for. So 0:27:35.000 --> 0:27:37.280 I agree this is it was therapeutic. We know that 0:27:37.320 --> 0:27:42.280 it was one moment in time, but it's encouraging and 0:27:42.520 --> 0:27:44.439 I'm just grateful to the folks that went out and 0:27:44.480 --> 0:27:47.080 voted and some of the massive swings we saw of 0:27:47.160 --> 0:27:51.120 young people coming back and Hispanic voters, and so good 0:27:51.119 --> 0:27:52.520 to be with you at this point. 0:27:52.720 --> 0:27:56.520 It's interesting because it's like, you know, the twenty twenty 0:27:56.520 --> 0:27:59.399 four cycle for me, and I know for you too, 0:28:00.440 --> 0:28:04.239 was just there was something about it that was just 0:28:04.320 --> 0:28:09.080 devastating that I felt that, you know, it was in 0:28:09.160 --> 0:28:13.240 all different ways, you know, a referendum on sort of 0:28:13.320 --> 0:28:18.560 goodness and sandy and the American people said yet again 0:28:18.800 --> 0:28:21.600 for the second time, and so I just would love 0:28:21.720 --> 0:28:24.560 you know, we haven't talked since that election. You want 0:28:24.600 --> 0:28:27.640 to talk about like what it was like for you, 0:28:27.680 --> 0:28:29.800 because I know what it was like for me, and 0:28:30.040 --> 0:28:31.840 it wasn't my name on that ticket. 0:28:32.640 --> 0:28:35.240 Well, first of all, you know, and I think Vice 0:28:35.280 --> 0:28:38.040 President Harris articulated so well that night when we found 0:28:38.080 --> 0:28:40.120 out we weren't going to win, my first thought went 0:28:40.160 --> 0:28:42.400 to what we knew would happened the most vulnerable. And 0:28:42.680 --> 0:28:46.840 here we sat with Donald Trump building a ballroom and 0:28:47.040 --> 0:28:50.200 going to court to deny food to children, not just 0:28:50.280 --> 0:28:52.680 trying to do it. He did it, tried it, lost court. 0:28:52.720 --> 0:28:55.920 Did you know, provide the food and that's not good enough. 0:28:55.960 --> 0:28:59.240 So my thought, you know, the sense of ownership I had, 0:28:59.280 --> 0:29:00.600 and that I knew there was going to be the 0:29:00.600 --> 0:29:02.240 most vulnerable We're going to feel this. 0:29:02.240 --> 0:29:05.040 This is the first shutdown ever, the longest shutdown ever, 0:29:05.120 --> 0:29:07.280 and the first one where the government has decided the 0:29:07.320 --> 0:29:09.719 Trump administration has decided not to fund snap. 0:29:10.000 --> 0:29:11.640 Yeah, it's it's beyond the payout. 0:29:11.960 --> 0:29:12.320 It is. 0:29:12.440 --> 0:29:14.800 It is a cruelty. But look if at this point 0:29:14.840 --> 0:29:17.520 in time, we don't understand that cruelty is not a bug, 0:29:17.560 --> 0:29:22.400 it's a feature revenge and pettiness. If if selfishness is it. 0:29:22.400 --> 0:29:25.920 It's all grounded in that. And and look, I Molly, 0:29:25.960 --> 0:29:29.680 you talked about this. I don't think this surprises you. 0:29:29.880 --> 0:29:33.120 It doesn't. It doesn't surprise me. But as a teacher 0:29:33.240 --> 0:29:36.280 and as an elected official, I you know, I needed 0:29:36.280 --> 0:29:39.440 to articulate that stronger. I think about that election and 0:29:39.520 --> 0:29:42.560 elections are always about change. And you know, and I 0:29:42.600 --> 0:29:45.400 think we got we were seen as status quo. I 0:29:45.440 --> 0:29:47.400 would I would say what you said, Molly, is I 0:29:47.400 --> 0:29:50.200 think we were status quo of decency and goodness and 0:29:50.320 --> 0:29:53.800 order and not chaos. But the public wanted to see 0:29:53.800 --> 0:29:56.840 something else. And you know, Trump promised these farmers they 0:29:56.840 --> 0:29:58.920 were going to be rich. Well, now they're going bankrupt, 0:29:59.240 --> 0:30:01.840 he crisis were going to come down. He didn't. So 0:30:01.880 --> 0:30:04.080 I think what happened is the American people And look, 0:30:04.120 --> 0:30:06.360 I think we saw what seven percent of Trump voters 0:30:06.360 --> 0:30:10.920 in some of these states switched back. He lied to them, 0:30:11.080 --> 0:30:14.600 and they're tired of it. And now we have an opportunity, 0:30:14.800 --> 0:30:17.760 which I think our candidates did tell them what we 0:30:17.880 --> 0:30:20.160 stand for. Yeah, you can scream all you want of 0:30:20.200 --> 0:30:24.680 them trying to make you know, Mayor elect Mondania face 0:30:24.720 --> 0:30:28.600 of the Democratic Party. He's talking about bringing housing costs deck, 0:30:29.280 --> 0:30:31.880 he's talking about making a city more liveable, if at 0:30:31.880 --> 0:30:34.800 all possible, you know, I think. And then you see 0:30:34.800 --> 0:30:37.760 that in Virginia, you see it in uh, you know, 0:30:37.920 --> 0:30:40.680 state house races across the country. So I think the 0:30:40.720 --> 0:30:43.200 Democrats now have a chance to say, look, you obviously 0:30:43.200 --> 0:30:45.400 are sick of Trump. Here's what we can offer you. 0:30:45.680 --> 0:30:46.280 And that's what. 0:30:46.960 --> 0:30:49.239 Yeah, but what was it? I just am curious, like 0:30:49.280 --> 0:30:53.280 for my own just because we're friends, Like, what was it? Like, 0:30:53.400 --> 0:30:56.280 I mean, I just basically wrote, you know, I wrote 0:30:56.280 --> 0:30:58.120 a bunch of pieces about the stuff I got wrong. 0:30:58.200 --> 0:31:00.880 I tried to sort of take stock I think of 0:31:01.040 --> 0:31:04.760 you as I don't know I feel like you you 0:31:05.040 --> 0:31:10.280 are sturdy midwestern governor who really did show the country 0:31:10.320 --> 0:31:15.160 that you're that you had a real national profile. You 0:31:15.320 --> 0:31:18.080 got a lot of the kind of criticism that you 0:31:18.160 --> 0:31:21.080 get when you have a national profile. But was it 0:31:21.240 --> 0:31:23.080 I mean, first of all, what was it like to 0:31:23.120 --> 0:31:28.360 go from sturdy midwestern governor to like, you know, to 0:31:28.480 --> 0:31:31.360 everyone's did he you know, was was he the right pick? 0:31:31.440 --> 0:31:34.080 And then also just like was it like I mean, 0:31:34.440 --> 0:31:35.600 and has it changed you? 0:31:36.400 --> 0:31:38.239 Yeah? Well, first of all was an honor and it 0:31:38.280 --> 0:31:40.240 was And I view all these jobs just like I 0:31:40.320 --> 0:31:42.640 viewed my teaching job, and you know, in Congress and 0:31:42.680 --> 0:31:44.560 thing it was public service. And I got asked by 0:31:44.560 --> 0:31:46.480 the Vice President of the United States to try and 0:31:46.520 --> 0:31:50.080 help her win. That was my job. I did it 0:31:50.120 --> 0:31:53.120 to the best of my ability. Certainly not flawless. We 0:31:53.240 --> 0:31:56.840 all have, you know, our things we can do better at. 0:31:57.000 --> 0:31:59.680 But I was very proud that we were articulating at decency. 0:31:59.720 --> 0:32:02.720 We are articulating a vision around whether it was healthcare, expansion, 0:32:02.800 --> 0:32:06.200 home ownership, we were going to tackle problems like climate change. 0:32:06.800 --> 0:32:09.239 So I was really proud. It was very short the 0:32:09.240 --> 0:32:13.840 times that we were there. Again, I think back and 0:32:13.880 --> 0:32:16.000 I think you have to do this reassessed. Could I 0:32:16.040 --> 0:32:19.480 have been more you know, effective doing this? And I 0:32:19.520 --> 0:32:23.800 don't think it's necessarily you know, rehashing something. But I 0:32:23.800 --> 0:32:26.080 think we as ingercress have to learn why didn't we win? 0:32:26.400 --> 0:32:29.000 Why did we win? What could we do better? Now? 0:32:29.000 --> 0:32:31.240 Obviously I said, it's really frustrating to me. Is we 0:32:31.400 --> 0:32:34.760 not only did we not win, we lost to that guy? Yeah, 0:32:34.960 --> 0:32:38.000 and the it is the worst part. And I feel, 0:32:38.200 --> 0:32:40.320 you know, personally, but like people said, you know, are 0:32:40.360 --> 0:32:43.080 you doing okay? Are you going to be okay? Look, 0:32:44.120 --> 0:32:47.440 older white guys who are governors, they tend to land 0:32:47.480 --> 0:32:50.800 pretty song you're okay. But I said where I wasn't 0:32:50.840 --> 0:32:52.840 okay was is knowing what I needed to do so 0:32:52.880 --> 0:32:54.560 for me. And this is where I think, you know, 0:32:54.680 --> 0:32:56.920 I've talked some but I haven't talked in depth of 0:32:57.000 --> 0:33:01.320 Vice President Harris. I think it was very both therapeutic 0:33:01.400 --> 0:33:03.960 and good. I just came right back home and got 0:33:03.960 --> 0:33:06.800 to work. And we had a horrific summer. My best 0:33:06.800 --> 0:33:09.240 friend was murdered, we had children shot in a church, 0:33:09.440 --> 0:33:12.440 you know, so it was a horrific summer. But I was. 0:33:12.440 --> 0:33:19.480 Talking about this the minute speaker Melissa Wortman murdered, political 0:33:19.560 --> 0:33:22.240 murder in her bed with her dog and her husband 0:33:22.440 --> 0:33:25.320 by a conservative right. 0:33:25.360 --> 0:33:28.160 And a president who used that as an opportunity to 0:33:28.720 --> 0:33:33.160 and senators from Utah to slander Minnesota. 0:33:33.240 --> 0:33:33.280 Me. 0:33:33.800 --> 0:33:35.560 So, look, I had something to do, and. 0:33:35.800 --> 0:33:37.800 Your name was on that list too. 0:33:37.920 --> 0:33:40.920 Yeah, well yeah, all of us, all the Democrats were, 0:33:41.360 --> 0:33:42.960 you know. And then he would have killed more people 0:33:42.960 --> 0:33:45.560 had he and he had the chance. So all that's 0:33:45.600 --> 0:33:47.640 going on. Then we have children murdered on the first 0:33:47.720 --> 0:33:50.360 day of school. I'm trying to fight for gun violence. 0:33:50.360 --> 0:33:52.160 I'm trying to get rid of assault weapons and high 0:33:52.200 --> 0:33:55.360 capacity magazines. So I had a place to go back 0:33:55.400 --> 0:33:57.440 to and to do the work. And I think for me, 0:33:57.560 --> 0:33:59.800 what was so encouraging about this is is that, look, 0:34:00.480 --> 0:34:04.040 this was a catastrophic loss last fall, catastrophic for the country, 0:34:04.160 --> 0:34:07.880 catastrophic for democracy. We have innocent people being swept up 0:34:07.920 --> 0:34:10.160 off the streets. We have moms being yanked out of 0:34:10.200 --> 0:34:12.719 their car and their babies driven away, you know, and things. 0:34:12.800 --> 0:34:16.200 I mean, this is so horrific. But I have the 0:34:16.239 --> 0:34:19.359 capacity to do something about it, at least in Minnesota, 0:34:18.960 --> 0:34:21.600 so I'm back at it. I do think there were 0:34:21.680 --> 0:34:23.680 lessons learned the affordability piece on this. 0:34:23.840 --> 0:34:25.719 Can I just ask one question? This is like a 0:34:25.719 --> 0:34:28.400 hobby horse of mine, as someone who's written so much 0:34:28.520 --> 0:34:32.839 about that CSYCHO, I felt that the consultant class would 0:34:32.920 --> 0:34:35.359 constantly get in there and be like, you know, like 0:34:35.560 --> 0:34:38.080 I think of you as a politician with very good instincts, 0:34:38.360 --> 0:34:41.000 and that every time something would take off, the consultant 0:34:41.000 --> 0:34:43.799 class would go in there and like smush it is 0:34:43.840 --> 0:34:48.000 that just my own fantasy? Did you see that happening? 0:34:48.040 --> 0:34:50.480 I mean, there was so much. There was such a 0:34:52.000 --> 0:34:55.560 group of very no i know, making a ton of 0:34:55.680 --> 0:34:57.759 you know, just you know. 0:34:57.920 --> 0:35:00.360 Yeah, well, look, first, it is so big. You know, 0:35:00.360 --> 0:35:03.719 I've run statewide campaigns, but they pale in comparison. It 0:35:03.760 --> 0:35:07.320 was so big. There's so many moving pieces in plans 0:35:07.880 --> 0:35:10.360 that have to go. And look, I signed on very clearly. 0:35:10.440 --> 0:35:13.560 My job was to get Kamala Harris elected president and 0:35:13.600 --> 0:35:15.560 then to serve her in the role of her vice 0:35:15.600 --> 0:35:18.319 president whatever she needed, whatever that looked like. So I'm 0:35:18.360 --> 0:35:20.839 a team player, I have agency. You know. There were 0:35:20.880 --> 0:35:23.480 things like I can speak up and there were things 0:35:23.520 --> 0:35:25.239 that I did. But when I signed up and said 0:35:25.239 --> 0:35:27.680 I'm on board, I said I'll follow the plan, and 0:35:27.719 --> 0:35:32.759 I think retrospectively, you know, I've said this not critique. 0:35:32.800 --> 0:35:34.719 I think it's just reality. I think we were too 0:35:34.800 --> 0:35:38.719 cautious and played to not lose, play to win. 0:35:39.000 --> 0:35:41.399 That is the consultant class that did. 0:35:41.520 --> 0:35:43.680 That's their job. That's their job, and I have to 0:35:43.680 --> 0:35:46.440 trust them. So I mean, in retrospect on everything, you 0:35:46.480 --> 0:35:48.720 go back and say, maybe we should have done this differently. 0:35:48.360 --> 0:35:50.800 But certainly do you wish she hadn't trusted them a 0:35:50.840 --> 0:35:53.040 little bit? Though, Like because I see. 0:35:52.920 --> 0:35:54.799 So many I don't know if it's an option though. 0:35:55.000 --> 0:35:57.120 You know, when in this year on the ticket, my 0:35:57.239 --> 0:35:59.160 job was to not cause any grief. And you know 0:35:59.280 --> 0:36:01.399 I could give my put in and that there's great 0:36:01.400 --> 0:36:04.000 folks in there and lots of thousands of people working. 0:36:04.040 --> 0:36:07.120 They would take a look. I'll just give you one example. 0:36:07.760 --> 0:36:10.120 I had a few minutes one afternoon I know, some 0:36:10.200 --> 0:36:12.920 hotel somewhere and it's when I'm watching a football game 0:36:12.960 --> 0:36:15.040 on a Sunday afternoon before we get ready to go again, 0:36:15.560 --> 0:36:18.759 and the transgender at popped up. I very you know, 0:36:18.840 --> 0:36:22.000 instinctively felt this. I said, this ad is dangerous. It's 0:36:22.120 --> 0:36:25.680 dangerous if we don't respond because I think we have 0:36:25.800 --> 0:36:27.879 to to defend people who shouldn't be you know where 0:36:27.920 --> 0:36:32.040 my position is on transgender Yes, I'm only. 0:36:32.400 --> 0:36:36.239 There's no reason to throw the throw one under the 0:36:36.239 --> 0:36:39.520 bus in anyone, but there's no reason to respond. 0:36:39.760 --> 0:36:42.120 Yeah, and there's no reason after Tuesday to change that either, 0:36:42.120 --> 0:36:45.120 because we can do two things at once. Make affordability 0:36:45.120 --> 0:36:48.120 a prisent but support human rights. That's one where I 0:36:48.160 --> 0:36:51.480 think you get kind of paralyzed and decided that that 0:36:51.520 --> 0:36:54.360 one would just slide by. And it wasn't the old 0:36:54.640 --> 0:36:57.640 because it was a double killer because to not respond 0:36:57.680 --> 0:37:00.359 to it, I felt like allies felt like they being 0:37:00.360 --> 0:37:02.360 a band and that wasn't the case. Kamala Harris has 0:37:02.360 --> 0:37:05.720 stood with them. You always would. So you've got smart 0:37:05.760 --> 0:37:08.360 people making decisions and looking at polling and all that. 0:37:08.800 --> 0:37:11.120 And I think my biggest thing is is that I 0:37:11.160 --> 0:37:13.719 would loyal and I'm loyaled and will continue till the 0:37:13.760 --> 0:37:16.760 day I died to Kamala Harris and the team made decisions. 0:37:16.800 --> 0:37:18.560 Did we get them all right? Well, if we had, 0:37:18.600 --> 0:37:19.359 we probably would have won. 0:37:19.960 --> 0:37:22.600 And so I mean, I just I just think about 0:37:22.600 --> 0:37:24.759 it so much because I think about like the sort 0:37:24.800 --> 0:37:28.759 of successful Democrats who break through, right, the kind of 0:37:28.840 --> 0:37:33.280 Chris Murphy's yes, or the Bernie Sanders, so it's not ideological, 0:37:33.480 --> 0:37:37.640 or the even the governor Pritzker's right, the people. Pritzker 0:37:37.680 --> 0:37:40.320 obviously it's a little bit different because he's got ice 0:37:40.600 --> 0:37:44.120 attacking his city twenty seven. But like Tho, you know, 0:37:44.200 --> 0:37:47.280 those three they're not ideological, but they all have managed 0:37:47.320 --> 0:37:51.040 to sort of permeate the news bubble. 0:37:50.920 --> 0:37:54.040 Where they're authentic. They're authentic, and they're in the moment. 0:37:54.200 --> 0:37:55.879 You can feel them in the moment. 0:37:55.920 --> 0:37:59.359 Whereas you have, like democratic leadership, it's hard to think 0:37:59.400 --> 0:38:02.000 of a moment that Chuck Schumer has really nailed or 0:38:02.120 --> 0:38:04.040 Hakeem And so that's my question. 0:38:04.040 --> 0:38:06.160 The job is hard. No, you're right, and look, I 0:38:06.160 --> 0:38:09.520 think it's a healthy exercise to talk about it. But 0:38:09.760 --> 0:38:12.839 I also think we have seen this, that authenticity. You've 0:38:12.840 --> 0:38:15.280 got to be disciplined enough. You talked about this, Molly, 0:38:15.280 --> 0:38:17.840 and I told the Vice president this. I said, Look, 0:38:17.880 --> 0:38:21.160 I think, you know, I think you'll get good stuff 0:38:21.160 --> 0:38:24.120 out of me most of the time, and about ten 0:38:24.160 --> 0:38:25.959 percent of the time I think it'll be really good. 0:38:26.640 --> 0:38:28.359 And then there's going to be about ten percent that'll 0:38:28.400 --> 0:38:32.160 be problematic. I think, you know, you talk, and I 0:38:32.200 --> 0:38:35.120 think it's about managing risk. And I think there's a 0:38:35.239 --> 0:38:38.719 risk averseness in these campaigns that I don't even say 0:38:38.719 --> 0:38:42.560 that as a pejorative, but the route to take less risky, 0:38:42.680 --> 0:38:45.479 and I think in an extrasential race like we saw 0:38:45.880 --> 0:38:48.160 because I was convinced, I keep telling this story, Molly. 0:38:48.200 --> 0:38:50.239 I didn't know this, but we did an off the 0:38:50.280 --> 0:38:53.600 record stop in southern Georgia and I was on the 0:38:53.600 --> 0:38:57.000 bus with the Vice President. We're driving down small rural 0:38:57.080 --> 0:38:59.560 roads and there's little girls, little black girls out there 0:38:59.560 --> 0:39:02.319 with signs, unpaigned signs that said Kamala and it you know, 0:39:02.360 --> 0:39:05.000 I'm like, oh. And we stopped at a school. We're 0:39:05.040 --> 0:39:08.560 in a band room and it's a Friday afternoon in 0:39:08.600 --> 0:39:11.480 the fall. The band is playing the fight song, the 0:39:11.560 --> 0:39:13.720 cheerleaders are in there, the football team is in there. 0:39:13.880 --> 0:39:15.239 We're going to go in there and do a little 0:39:15.280 --> 0:39:17.520 off the record for the cameras type of thing whenever. 0:39:17.560 --> 0:39:20.120 And we walk in there and the first thing Kamala 0:39:20.120 --> 0:39:22.040 Harris says is, oh, I love this room. I was 0:39:22.080 --> 0:39:25.120 a band kid, and I'm like, you were a band kid. 0:39:25.160 --> 0:39:28.319 American needs to know you're a band. You know what 0:39:28.320 --> 0:39:32.480 I'm saying. There's something quintessentially about being in band in 0:39:32.520 --> 0:39:35.000 a school, just like there is about being a football coach, 0:39:35.080 --> 0:39:37.520 a science teacher, whatever it might be. It was such 0:39:37.520 --> 0:39:41.399 a humanizing moment, It was so good, and I just thought, Man, 0:39:41.440 --> 0:39:43.960 we should run with this stuff. We should do more 0:39:44.000 --> 0:39:46.560 of this. I don't think America knew that, because you know, 0:39:46.760 --> 0:39:50.640 that's their goal, to make us unlikable. We can't possible 0:39:50.680 --> 0:39:53.080 this guy can't possibly be a football coach and a 0:39:53.120 --> 0:39:55.319 soldier who grew up on a farm and knows about 0:39:55.360 --> 0:39:57.600 agg economy. So we got to do whatever we can 0:39:57.680 --> 0:40:01.560 to make him just so alien to us. And I 0:40:01.600 --> 0:40:03.920 don't think the consultant class responds to that. 0:40:04.200 --> 0:40:06.880 I didn't know that, and I covered the campaign and 0:40:07.000 --> 0:40:09.960 interviewed her a bunch. I think that kind of carefulness 0:40:10.120 --> 0:40:15.040 is sort of is ultimately the undoing of some of 0:40:15.080 --> 0:40:18.840 these of some of some democratic politicians. 0:40:19.080 --> 0:40:21.160 No, I think you're right, and I look, say what 0:40:21.200 --> 0:40:24.000 you will, and my wife Gwyn gets this ride or whatever, 0:40:24.320 --> 0:40:27.560 the horrificness of the character of Donald Trump, But that 0:40:27.680 --> 0:40:30.319 whole thing of there's something in that when people say 0:40:30.360 --> 0:40:32.840 I know it drives us all nuts if you're progressive, well, 0:40:32.880 --> 0:40:35.200 at least Donald Trump, you know, speaks how he's feeling 0:40:35.239 --> 0:40:37.880 or whatever. There is some truth in that he doesn't 0:40:37.920 --> 0:40:41.120 get penalized for the horrific things he says, like you know, 0:40:41.640 --> 0:40:45.120 you name it. There's countless ones that's viewed more as well. 0:40:45.120 --> 0:40:47.399 At least he's authentic, and I don't feel like I'm 0:40:47.400 --> 0:40:49.880 being sold to Bill of goods. You know. It's not 0:40:49.960 --> 0:40:52.600 an excuse to be sloppy, but it should be an 0:40:52.640 --> 0:40:54.719 excuse to if you get asked a question, try your 0:40:54.719 --> 0:40:57.160 best to answer it. Yeah, your best to answer it. 0:40:57.239 --> 0:40:58.880 Try and be there, you know. And I think we 0:40:58.920 --> 0:41:02.719 watched this and the Republicans obviously trying to make Mayor 0:41:02.719 --> 0:41:05.759 Elec Mandani the face of the party. But if you're 0:41:05.760 --> 0:41:09.040 a Democrat, why are you running from other Democrats? You know, 0:41:09.840 --> 0:41:11.520 you can disagree and say, look, I don't agree with 0:41:11.560 --> 0:41:13.759 all of his policies, this is not something I would do, 0:41:14.080 --> 0:41:16.400 but the people of New York should be able to vote. 0:41:16.440 --> 0:41:18.920 And look, if you're living in Albuquerque, New Mexico, I 0:41:18.960 --> 0:41:21.120 don't think you should be probably overly concerned who the 0:41:21.120 --> 0:41:23.879 mayor of New York City is. And I think there's 0:41:23.920 --> 0:41:26.319 a cautiousness. You see people like go out of their 0:41:26.360 --> 0:41:30.320 way to like deny that these things happen. 0:41:30.800 --> 0:41:34.879 My favorite things that you did in the campaign were 0:41:35.200 --> 0:41:38.640 the stuff about fixing your car like this sort of no, 0:41:38.719 --> 0:41:41.040 but seriously, like the car talk. I don't know, did 0:41:41.040 --> 0:41:42.319 you ever listen to car talk? 0:41:42.840 --> 0:41:45.359 What did click and clack? Yeah? Yeah, I loved it. 0:41:45.480 --> 0:41:47.440 When I was a kid, my dad would drive me 0:41:47.520 --> 0:41:49.400 to stuff and we listened to car talk and it 0:41:49.600 --> 0:41:52.600 was like, you know, it was just an American thing. 0:41:52.840 --> 0:41:56.400 And that kind of stuff I felt like was some 0:41:56.600 --> 0:41:59.399 of the stuff and I don't, you know, I barely drive, 0:41:59.560 --> 0:42:02.799 but the kind of stuff that I felt was very 0:42:02.960 --> 0:42:05.840 relatable and just who you are. 0:42:06.160 --> 0:42:07.719 Yeah. And I think the same thing would be true 0:42:07.760 --> 0:42:10.320 of Kamala when she talked about like cooking and things. 0:42:10.360 --> 0:42:12.399 And I think there's lessons in this, and we saw 0:42:12.400 --> 0:42:14.200 it with these candidates. You know, to be real who 0:42:14.239 --> 0:42:17.440 you are, don't try and be something you're not, and 0:42:17.480 --> 0:42:20.319 then proudly stand on the things that we believe in 0:42:20.480 --> 0:42:22.200 and and then do it for people. 0:42:22.360 --> 0:42:25.200 And also more I mean like Donald Trump, you know 0:42:25.280 --> 0:42:28.440 he did fall asleep at his desk yesterday or the 0:42:28.520 --> 0:42:31.239 day before, or maybe both, but he did do like 0:42:31.320 --> 0:42:34.080 he does do five pool sprays. He he does do 0:42:34.160 --> 0:42:35.880 a ton of. 0:42:36.000 --> 0:42:38.520 I couldn't agree more. No, I couldn't agree more. And 0:42:38.560 --> 0:42:40.839 that's a lesson we learned. And I think, you know, 0:42:40.960 --> 0:42:46.560 not seeing podcasters and you know, and influencers or wherever 0:42:46.600 --> 0:42:48.759 you're gonna go with it, not seeing them as like 0:42:48.920 --> 0:42:51.200 you know, this novelty thing on the side, but seeing 0:42:51.280 --> 0:42:54.560 part of your bigger plan. And you do this and 0:42:54.560 --> 0:42:57.880 then understand the simplicity of I gotta tell you, Molly again. 0:42:57.960 --> 0:43:01.760 I think it was either North care Liner Georgia. Final 0:43:01.800 --> 0:43:04.080 weeks of the campaign, I started seeing these little signs 0:43:04.120 --> 0:43:07.600 all over the place pop up Trump good, Kamala bad, 0:43:08.120 --> 0:43:11.400 Trump saved, Kamala crime, and it was They're good and 0:43:11.640 --> 0:43:13.600 they were just random that had been printed and they 0:43:13.640 --> 0:43:16.960 were all over and my first instinct would be, and 0:43:17.000 --> 0:43:18.560 this is where you can get kind of trapped in. 0:43:18.600 --> 0:43:21.280 This is like, h it's ridiculous. And then I started 0:43:21.280 --> 0:43:24.319 to realize, holy crap, those things are super effective. They 0:43:24.320 --> 0:43:26.279 are super one small piece. I don't know how much 0:43:26.280 --> 0:43:29.719 money they spent on them, combination of things and was 0:43:29.760 --> 0:43:31.960 there enough of us? And then you know, in no 0:43:32.080 --> 0:43:37.440 disrespect to the large legacy media, but preparing and prepping 0:43:38.120 --> 0:43:40.720 for an interview on CNN that probably had less viewers 0:43:40.760 --> 0:43:43.440 than I would get on this podcast. Yeah, no, for 0:43:43.520 --> 0:43:44.959 sure true and. 0:43:44.920 --> 0:43:48.239 So yeah no, I mean and also like I do 0:43:48.360 --> 0:43:52.919 think there should be more of like, especially people like you, 0:43:53.040 --> 0:43:56.319 going on stuff like Rogan, because Joe Rogan did not 0:43:56.600 --> 0:43:59.680 leave the Democratic Party, right, it's just that Donald Trump 0:43:59.680 --> 0:44:03.560 made his bat you know, try desperately to get on. 0:44:03.760 --> 0:44:06.120 I mean, it's going on there. I mean they you know. 0:44:06.239 --> 0:44:08.520 I agree, And look, it's not about being arrogant. I mean, 0:44:08.520 --> 0:44:11.320 it's just know this stuff whatever I find this happened 0:44:11.360 --> 0:44:13.759 time and time again. When you're in a position like 0:44:13.800 --> 0:44:16.120 this and when you can't meet everybody, they will caricature. 0:44:16.120 --> 0:44:18.160 They make a caricature. Of course, their go to is 0:44:18.160 --> 0:44:19.960 if we're in the military, they swift boat us. It 0:44:19.960 --> 0:44:21.759 doesn't matter if it's true or not. They have this 0:44:21.880 --> 0:44:25.200 pattern and it sinks in enough to erode faith. And 0:44:25.239 --> 0:44:27.759 what I said is I feel very confident in this. 0:44:27.840 --> 0:44:30.959 If people like Rogan and other people, if I meet 0:44:30.960 --> 0:44:33.360 them and sit down and talk to them, I guarantee 0:44:33.360 --> 0:44:35.719 you they leave saying well, I didn't expect that. Yeah, 0:44:35.760 --> 0:44:38.799 we expect that because they've been fed a line that's 0:44:38.840 --> 0:44:42.240 not true. Michaels is in public service and servant leadership 0:44:42.320 --> 0:44:45.040 is to find solutions going forward. And I have worked 0:44:45.040 --> 0:44:46.960 with Republicans and right now I know that there's some 0:44:47.000 --> 0:44:50.600 Democrats that, oh, that guy's willing to compromise. You know, 0:44:51.000 --> 0:44:53.680 I'm not with him. That's our problem inside our party. 0:44:53.680 --> 0:44:57.400 We'll figure that. But the vast majority of Americans just 0:44:57.440 --> 0:44:59.400 want effectiveness. And I think if you don't go on 0:44:59.480 --> 0:45:02.640 those shows, you don't show them, it's easy to demonize you. 0:45:02.680 --> 0:45:05.480 I watched, just not that long ago, Joe Rogan going 0:45:05.480 --> 0:45:08.279 off on an AI video of me. It's some guy 0:45:08.320 --> 0:45:11.279 wearing a you know, f Donald Trump shirt dancing down 0:45:11.280 --> 0:45:12.080 an escalator. 0:45:12.440 --> 0:45:13.239 Right, it's not true. 0:45:13.280 --> 0:45:15.080 Why the hell would I ever do anything like that, 0:45:15.239 --> 0:45:17.280 And it's pretty out of character. 0:45:17.800 --> 0:45:21.319 You're running for reelection, I am. This will be your 0:45:21.360 --> 0:45:22.160 third term. 0:45:22.280 --> 0:45:26.680 Yes, tell me, well, I think the moment is it again. 0:45:26.760 --> 0:45:28.520 I don't think that I'm the only one. I don't 0:45:28.840 --> 0:45:30.960 can do this. I don't think that you have a 0:45:31.719 --> 0:45:33.759 lock on these These are not your jobs. I think 0:45:33.800 --> 0:45:37.319 here in Minnesota we're a truly purple state that I 0:45:37.320 --> 0:45:40.520 think people don't recognize. Of all the swing states, thank goodness, 0:45:40.520 --> 0:45:42.919 Minnesota we won, and you know that was my job 0:45:42.960 --> 0:45:45.279 to help win the other ones. But I think right 0:45:45.320 --> 0:45:47.759 now we've moved Minnesota in a progressive way where we're 0:45:47.840 --> 0:45:50.719 consistently seeing now we ranked near the top of whether 0:45:50.719 --> 0:45:53.360 it's raising a child, starting a business. We're going to 0:45:53.400 --> 0:45:55.839 start and have the most aggressive paid family medical leave 0:45:55.960 --> 0:45:58.640 kicks in on the first. We are protecting reproductive rights, 0:45:58.680 --> 0:46:02.680 We're protecting our transgender children, we are innovating around healthcare, 0:46:02.800 --> 0:46:06.480 and lots of things are in absolute opposition to Trump. 0:46:06.960 --> 0:46:09.680 And right now, every single day, I spend my time 0:46:09.719 --> 0:46:11.840 thinking about how we can improve the lives of Minnesota 0:46:11.840 --> 0:46:15.040 and fighting a rearguard action about the nonsense that Trump 0:46:15.080 --> 0:46:17.960 is bringing. And I think I have twelve years of 0:46:18.000 --> 0:46:21.000 congressional experience, eight years as governor. I've been through everything 0:46:21.040 --> 0:46:24.120 from the pandemic to George Floyd to seeing the national stage. 0:46:24.520 --> 0:46:27.239 I think I'm best prepared and probably better qualified than 0:46:27.239 --> 0:46:29.799 anybody who's ever run for governor. And I think I 0:46:29.840 --> 0:46:33.080 can provide a bit of that firewall. But I don't 0:46:33.080 --> 0:46:35.200 take it for granted. The people of Minnesota will speak. 0:46:35.280 --> 0:46:37.799 I feel like right now I'm working harder than on 0:46:37.840 --> 0:46:41.280 any campaign I've ever worked, and I feel like last 0:46:41.360 --> 0:46:44.160 fall showed me this. If a Republican wins in Minnesota, 0:46:44.239 --> 0:46:46.319 we will get rid of reproductive rights and we are 0:46:46.320 --> 0:46:50.120 the beacon for the Midwest Usin Illinois, we will turn 0:46:50.120 --> 0:46:53.600 our backs on climate change, we will demonize the most 0:46:53.680 --> 0:46:56.759 vulnerable amongst US, and we will weaken what is America's 0:46:56.800 --> 0:47:00.520 most progressive taxation system. And so I really feel like 0:47:00.560 --> 0:47:02.920 protecting those things we did that I'm best positioned to 0:47:02.960 --> 0:47:05.160 do that. We've got an open Senate seat here, and 0:47:05.200 --> 0:47:06.640 I think you know how these things work in a 0:47:06.680 --> 0:47:09.120 state the size of Minnesota, having an open Senate and 0:47:09.120 --> 0:47:11.400 an open governor massively expensive. 0:47:11.760 --> 0:47:13.719 Yes, thank you, Governor Wall. 0:47:14.160 --> 0:47:15.880 We'll get back again. You're the best. 0:47:16.160 --> 0:47:22.440 You're the best. Thank you, Thank you, No no moment second. 0:47:23.640 --> 0:47:28.520 Jesse Cannon, my Trumpism often has talked about us saying 0:47:28.560 --> 0:47:32.640 the quiet part out loud constantly. Steve Betta just going 0:47:32.640 --> 0:47:34.560 for new heights, like, you know, like the guy's not 0:47:34.640 --> 0:47:38.440 in the best shape, but he's jumping Olympic levels high 0:47:38.680 --> 0:47:40.000 of telling on themselves. 0:47:40.320 --> 0:47:44.200 Yeah, you know, so when I saw this video. It 0:47:44.320 --> 0:47:46.799 was like, you know how it is now You're like, 0:47:46.840 --> 0:47:50.399 this is probably AI and then you're like, oh, no, no, 0:47:50.480 --> 0:47:53.919 it's not. This is a quote. I tell you right 0:47:54.400 --> 0:47:58.400 as God as my witness. If we lose the midterms 0:47:58.520 --> 0:48:02.399 and we lose twenty twenty, some in this room are 0:48:02.560 --> 0:48:07.320 going to prison, Bannon told the crowd at the awards 0:48:07.360 --> 0:48:10.680 event hosted by the Conservative Partnership Academy. I think he 0:48:10.760 --> 0:48:14.960 then added, didn't he add I am two or no? 0:48:15.200 --> 0:48:16.120 I guess he didn't. 0:48:16.280 --> 0:48:18.160 I think that that was implied by some in this 0:48:18.239 --> 0:48:20.480 room because if we remember, he did the build the 0:48:20.520 --> 0:48:23.000 wall thing, and he narrowly. 0:48:22.640 --> 0:48:24.400 Evaded he went to prison. 0:48:24.840 --> 0:48:26.920 He did go to prison. Actually that was for the 0:48:26.960 --> 0:48:30.000 contempt around the other thing as well. You know, there's 0:48:30.040 --> 0:48:32.520 still hell to pay with many of his deeds. 0:48:32.760 --> 0:48:34.040 Yes, no question. 0:48:34.719 --> 0:48:36.239 You know, for people like you and me, this is 0:48:36.239 --> 0:48:39.080 a real get out the vote operation. Bring Ben into jail. 0:48:39.520 --> 0:48:43.279 Yeah, correct, that is true. It is a get out 0:48:43.280 --> 0:48:45.200 of the vote. I also think, like the fact that 0:48:45.239 --> 0:48:48.959 they're saying this now shows there's just a lot of anxiety. 0:48:49.480 --> 0:48:51.400 I think they're going to do a lot of crazy 0:48:51.400 --> 0:48:54.920 stuff to try and make it hard for people to vote. 0:48:55.000 --> 0:48:58.160 I think that seems like it's clearly on the horizon, 0:48:58.440 --> 0:49:02.439 so certainly worrying, certainly something to keep watching out for, 0:49:02.640 --> 0:49:07.200 and certainly the Steve Bannon we know, delivering the hits 0:49:07.560 --> 0:49:08.680 as only he can. 0:49:08.920 --> 0:49:11.640 Oh, when you talk that many hours on air all day, 0:49:12.120 --> 0:49:13.840 you're gonna say some real dumb things. 0:49:14.040 --> 0:49:21.000 Thad for yourself. That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. 0:49:21.480 --> 0:49:27.200 Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday to hear 0:49:27.480 --> 0:49:31.799 the best minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. 0:49:32.120 --> 0:49:34.960 If you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a 0:49:35.040 --> 0:49:39.000 friend and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.