Speaker 1: Keep on ridin would it says, we continue to broadcast
Speaker 1: the balance and defend the discourse from the Hip Hop
Speaker 1: Weekly Studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: Rams's Jack.
Speaker 2: He is Rams's joh, I am q Ward. You are
Speaker 2: tuned into Civic Scipher.
Speaker 1: Indeed, and we are going to be talking to the one,
Speaker 1: the only, doctor Ebram X Kindy. Now, for those who
Speaker 1: don't know, Doctor Ibram x Kindy is a National Book
Speaker 1: Award winning author of sixteen books for adults and children,
Speaker 1: including ten New York Times bestsellers, five of which were
Speaker 1: number one New York Times bestsellers, including How to Be
Speaker 1: Anti Racist. That's certainly a book that we've discussed on
Speaker 1: this show more than once. We've taken a lot of
Speaker 1: content from that book. That book to conceive of segments
Speaker 1: that we thought would be meaningful and useful. But there's
Speaker 1: more than that, of course. But for those who don't know,
Speaker 1: How to Be Anti Racist was described in The New
Speaker 1: York Times as the most courageous book to date on
Speaker 1: the problem of race in the Western mind. But before
Speaker 1: we finish our conversation with doctor Ibram x Kindy, it
Speaker 1: is time to be Aba become a better ally Baba
Speaker 1: and today's Baba. We want to tell you about Chicanos Borlacosa.
Speaker 1: You can check them out at CPLC dot org. And
Speaker 1: this one is kind of special to me, so let
Speaker 1: me share a little bit about this organization. Chicanosporloc also
Speaker 1: began with a group of student and community activists who
Speaker 1: push back against racial discrimination. Today, they are one of
Speaker 1: the largest Latino nonprofits in the country, providing services to
Speaker 1: people of all backgrounds. Put a pending that we're going
Speaker 1: to come back to it while honoring their Mexican American roots.
Speaker 1: The programs give individuals and families a seat at the table.
Speaker 1: They facilitate growth through five areas of impact, health and
Speaker 1: human services, housing, education, economic development, and advocacy. With offices
Speaker 1: in six Southwestern states and clients across the country, CPLC
Speaker 1: impacts almost one million lives per year. If you would
Speaker 1: like to make a donation, you can do so at
Speaker 1: CPLC dot org. And your support of CPLC may qualify
Speaker 1: for a dollar for dollar tax credit through the Charitable
Speaker 1: Foster Care and School Tax Credits programs. You can learn
Speaker 1: more again at CPLC dot org. And I did want
Speaker 1: to share with you that when my birth mother first
Speaker 1: left California and moved to Arizona to get me away
Speaker 1: from whatever might have been waiting for me on the
Speaker 1: streets of Compton, one of the first organizations to help
Speaker 1: out that black woman with four kids was chicanospor Lakosa
Speaker 1: and I remember going to the facilities and I remember
Speaker 1: them helping her get a job, and I remember it
Speaker 1: was a tough time with a woman who was just
Speaker 1: kind of seeking a better future for her family, and
Speaker 1: CPLC was there for her. And so this organization ACT
Speaker 1: have a personal experience with because I remember hanging out
Speaker 1: there when I was a little kid. So again, CPOC
Speaker 1: dot org. If you feel so inclined now, Q, I
Speaker 1: know you had something left over from last segment, and
Speaker 1: so why don't you start off and then we'll go
Speaker 1: from there.
Speaker 2: The fourthcoming book, Malcolm Lives. You have a vision with
Speaker 2: this text. What is it that you're trying to accomplish, Like,
Speaker 2: as a reader and to our listener, you know, what
Speaker 2: is it that we should be looking for or looking
Speaker 2: to gain from Malcolm Lives.
Speaker 3: I remember when I was growing up, I didn't like
Speaker 3: particularly when I was in school, like I didn't really
Speaker 3: history was boring for me. I'm like, why do I
Speaker 3: have to learn about history like that, that's fifty years ago,
Speaker 3: one hundred years ago. How does it relevant to me?
Speaker 3: And the here and the now? I didn't see it
Speaker 3: as relevant, So I didn't really care about history. But
Speaker 3: what I'm trying to do with Malcolm Lives is show
Speaker 3: how history lives through the life of Malcolm X. And
Speaker 3: so many scenes in the book. The book is largely
Speaker 3: told in scenes, and so many of the scenes in
Speaker 3: the book are literally not just set in nineteen sixty
Speaker 3: one or nineteen sixty three, but they're also set in
Speaker 3: the here and the now, in which Malcolm is both
Speaker 3: speaking to the moment in nineteen sixty two as well
Speaker 3: as the moment here and now, so that people can
Speaker 3: see how Malcolm's, his message and his legacy lives, and
Speaker 3: it lives in a moment of spreading anti blackness, of Islamophobia,
Speaker 3: in which black people are being divided. And this was
Speaker 3: a man who directly challenged anti black racism, who directly
Speaker 3: challenged Islamophobia, who directly urged black people to unite. He
Speaker 3: would oftentimes say to black people, they don't hang you
Speaker 3: because you're a Methodist. They don't hang you because you're
Speaker 3: a Baptist. They hang you because you're black.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, while we're here, one of the things
Speaker 1: that I've noticed, and this is before we were able
Speaker 1: to have a conversation, but there's been this kind of
Speaker 1: new barrier that's come about, and call it the last
Speaker 1: maybe eight years, and it has manifested itself in the
Speaker 1: form of book bannings and oftentimes, as I mentioned, you know,
Speaker 1: I've seen books that you've written on these books, and
Speaker 1: certainly more recently, what do you make of the attacks
Speaker 1: on literature and ultimately, what do you make of the
Speaker 1: rebrand end of American history as CRT And what I
Speaker 1: want from you here is the why in terms of
Speaker 1: why history is important. I want the why in terms
Speaker 1: of why are they attacking it and so forth? Can
Speaker 1: you give us a little bit more on that?
Speaker 3: Sure, let's mean. I think one of the ways to
Speaker 3: explain the why is to explain the origins of book
Speaker 3: banning in this country. The original og book banners were
Speaker 3: in slavers. They literally ban abolitionist texts in the South.
Speaker 3: And at the same time they ban abolitionist texts, they
Speaker 3: didn't allow black people to read and write right, because
Speaker 3: they recognize that through reading and writing abolitionist texts, we
Speaker 3: could realize, if we didn't already, that the problem wasn't us.
Speaker 3: We could figure out ways to smash and eliminate slavery,
Speaker 3: which of course was the source, you know, of their
Speaker 3: richest And then even the vast majority of white Americans
Speaker 3: in the South who weren't enslavers, could also realize how
Speaker 3: slavery was harming them too, so they needed they neither
Speaker 3: wanted black people nor white people in slavers did to
Speaker 3: recognize that in slavers were the problem, that slavery was
Speaker 3: the problem, that we collectively were being undermined and to
Speaker 3: a certain extent, oppressed because of those enslavers. And I
Speaker 3: think it's the same thing now, you know, I think
Speaker 3: you have so many random Americans who don't know their history,
Speaker 3: who don't understand the ways in which a this current
Speaker 3: president is literally instituting policies that relative to black people
Speaker 3: are going to benefit them. But relative to black people,
Speaker 3: but then if you take black people, it's ultimately going
Speaker 3: to harm that exactly right, So for instance, relative to
Speaker 3: black people, it's gonna benefit white people. When if they
Speaker 3: make these tax cuts permanent, but it's actually only going
Speaker 3: to benefit a small segment of white people, and the
Speaker 3: vast majority of white people are gonna have to essentially
Speaker 3: pay for those tax cuts for the super rich. And
Speaker 3: so I think that what education does is it allows
Speaker 3: people to not be manipulated. And I think that's why
Speaker 3: I am constantly in the book. So I'm like, they're
Speaker 3: not gonna play me. And I know the more I read,
Speaker 3: the more I understand history, the more I understand the present,
Speaker 3: the more I'm able to grasp what is being said
Speaker 3: to me and why. And the more i'm the more
Speaker 3: I'm able to prevent people from manipulating me to do
Speaker 3: things that are against my own interests.
Speaker 2: I wish more people would adopt that stance. We've seen
Speaker 2: far too many manipulated directly into doing things against their
Speaker 2: own best interest just because racism flatly in the wake
Speaker 2: of the election, and now that the new president has
Speaker 2: been inaugurated and got right to work on the agenda
Speaker 2: that we all saw coming, for some people, there's been
Speaker 2: a sense of hopelessness. Many are looking for some form
Speaker 2: of decisive, specific, actionable leadership from Democrats to try to
Speaker 2: regain some of that ground that was lost, you know,
Speaker 2: over this past election cycle, over this past year, from
Speaker 2: what we've noticed, the planning or strategy seems fragmented. You know,
Speaker 2: at best from your purview, What are some steps that
Speaker 2: we can take or that our leadership can take, that
Speaker 2: are some viable strategies or viable steps that we can
Speaker 2: take collectively For liberals and those who believe in liberal
Speaker 2: who have a more liberal political leaning, I think.
Speaker 3: It's important just for us to realize that what this
Speaker 3: current administration is seeking to do is destroy any program
Speaker 3: or organization that is striving for really equity and justice.
Speaker 3: And I think the reason why I just wanted to
Speaker 3: underline that is because if we have a program or
Speaker 3: for part of an organization, or if we've created a platform,
Speaker 3: or if there's a platform or program or organization that
Speaker 3: we like, it's important for us to understand that those organizations,
Speaker 3: those entities are under attack. And so when they're under
Speaker 3: when something is under attack, what is the solution to
Speaker 3: defend it, to protect it, to fund it, to support it,
Speaker 3: to ensure that it's going to survive this attack, and
Speaker 3: if anything, to grow it. Right in the midst you know,
Speaker 3: of the storm to create new entities and organizations, you know,
Speaker 3: and platforms that are that are anti racists. And I
Speaker 3: just want to sort of emphasize that because there's a
Speaker 3: number of entities that we can that we already are
Speaker 3: in our backyards, that we could be supporting, and those
Speaker 3: are the entities that we need to ensure that survive,
Speaker 3: and those are the entities that are going to power
Speaker 3: the movement that can ultimately create a new, a new world.
Speaker 1: So I want to ask something here that has come
Speaker 1: up quite a bit. So, you know, Q and myself,
Speaker 1: we spend a lot of time in the deep end
Speaker 1: of you know, you know, the right wing, you know,
Speaker 1: media circles and chat rooms and so forth, just to
Speaker 1: keep an eye on what they are talking about, what
Speaker 1: it is that they think is accurate, and so forth,
Speaker 1: so that we know how to have conversations that we
Speaker 1: believe our listeners can use to make the changes in
Speaker 1: their individual communities. And there's this persistent narrative which I
Speaker 1: suspect that you know, I haven't been alive forever, but
Speaker 1: I suspect this has been a narrative that has existed
Speaker 1: for some time, but certainly in recent years and certainly
Speaker 1: in recent months. There's this narrative that exists that suggests
Speaker 1: that white men are under attack and that everything that
Speaker 1: benefit it's someone who is not a white man, indeed
Speaker 1: comes at their expense. And so if a white man
Speaker 1: is not thriving or prospering or whatever, this narrative fits
Speaker 1: nicely into their worldview because they can easily point to
Speaker 1: black people, immigrants.
Speaker 3: Et cetera.
Speaker 1: What would you say to people that kind of harbor
Speaker 1: this sentiment that white men or white people are under attack,
Speaker 1: and how would our listeners challenge that narrative in their
Speaker 1: day to day lives as they attempt to go out
Speaker 1: and you know, perhaps they're at the beginning stages, but
Speaker 1: they're trying to be anti racists themselves.
Speaker 3: Sure, I think. I think first, white men, like black men,
Speaker 3: are not a monolith. There are many different groups of
Speaker 3: white men. There's only a very small number of white
Speaker 3: men who are super wealthy, who are heterosexual, who are Protestant.
Speaker 1: Who.
Speaker 3: And so if you actually break down white men, working
Speaker 3: class white men, and impoverished white men are actually under attack,
Speaker 3: but not by the forces that they think. It's actually
Speaker 3: the forces that they're voting for that are making it
Speaker 3: harder for them to organize and unionize. That's cutting sort
Speaker 3: of government resources and benefits that help them. That is
Speaker 3: stripping away funding for things like cancer research that can
Speaker 3: actually benefit them. That is costing them more money out
Speaker 3: of their pocket because of the cost of food and eggs,
Speaker 3: which continues to sort of go up. And so for
Speaker 3: working class white mele and the vast majority of white
Speaker 3: men again are not rich. You know, when you have
Speaker 3: a government that is controlled by billionaires like that, those
Speaker 3: certainly billionaires are not acting in the best interests of
Speaker 3: working class white men. They're acting in the best interests
Speaker 3: of billionaire white men. And then you've had a number
Speaker 3: of white men who are gay, who've had books that
Speaker 3: have been banned. They can't teach their children, you know
Speaker 3: about homophobia, just as black parents can't teach their children
Speaker 3: you know about black history because of book bands. You've
Speaker 3: had white Jewish men who faced all sorts of anti
Speaker 3: semitism from white supremacists. You've had white men who are
Speaker 3: Democrats who live in states whereby this government is like,
Speaker 3: I'm not sending any funding to California, that's a blue state.
Speaker 3: I don't care about y'all. You've had and so I
Speaker 3: think you can go down the list of different groups
Speaker 3: of white men to really talk to them about how
Speaker 3: this administration's policies are actually not benefiting them and it
Speaker 3: actually are hurting them. And I think when we speak
Speaker 3: about white men in a monolith as a monolith, I
Speaker 3: think it actually helps those forces that are seeking to
Speaker 3: harm white men, because then you have white men who
Speaker 3: are making thirty thousand dollars a year who are somehow
Speaker 3: identifying with billionaires when there's no relationship between them, and
Speaker 3: the reason why they're only making thirty thousand dollars is
Speaker 3: because of the policies those billionaire politicians are supporting.
Speaker 2: And I think white supremacy has as it's superpower that
Speaker 2: white men do have a monolithic view of themselves, so
Speaker 2: they are united in those that they choose to oppress.
Speaker 2: Black people are not a monolith, and we wear that
Speaker 2: and we say that proudly. But the lack of solidarity
Speaker 2: in that way has proven to be a weakness because
Speaker 2: you know, we tend to find the one thing that
Speaker 2: we disagree on and make that the champion divider of
Speaker 2: everything that we're trying to do, while those who oppress
Speaker 2: us and oppose us can disagree on everything except for
Speaker 2: the fact that white people are superior, and their monolithic
Speaker 2: view in that regard has been their superpower in organizing
Speaker 2: and strategizing and showing up when it's time to vote
Speaker 2: against their own best interests, because as long as it's
Speaker 2: against black people that it must be the right thing
Speaker 2: to do. Your insight, your writing, your mind, your point
Speaker 2: of view are things that you know, these two gentlemen
Speaker 2: over here consider national treasures. Man, For our listeners who
Speaker 2: are being introduced to you today, when is Malcolm Lives
Speaker 2: going to be released? Where can they find you? How
Speaker 2: can they support you social media websites. We do not
Speaker 2: want this to be the last time that people who
Speaker 2: are hearing your voice for the first time hear it.
Speaker 2: And we want to make sure that we are as
Speaker 2: engaged as we can be, because we benefit greatly from
Speaker 2: just being in your company, sir, and I.
Speaker 3: Just want to thank each of you for having these
Speaker 3: thoughtful and really critical conversations. You know, I can only
Speaker 3: imagine the number of listeners who've been able to go
Speaker 3: on their own transformative intellectual journey because of the conversations
Speaker 3: that and even the insight you provided them. But and
Speaker 3: so I'm just excited to be able to be in
Speaker 3: conversation with you. Malcolm Lives is dropping May thirteen, which
Speaker 3: is about a week before Malcolm terms one hundred years old,
Speaker 3: six days before he turns one hundred years old on
Speaker 3: May nineteenth of this year. And Malcolm Lives is pretty
Speaker 3: much available wherever books you know are sold. And my
Speaker 3: handle on social is my first name Ibrahim x K.
Speaker 3: And then you know, of course I'm here on my
Speaker 3: websites ibramaxican dy dot com, so I'm around, follow me, engage.
Speaker 3: But I'm really excited about about Malcolm Lives. I feel
Speaker 3: like I've been working on this book my whole life.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well we're excited to check it out ourselves. And
Speaker 1: once again, it's it's important for people who are just
Speaker 1: coming to the table in terms of, you know, their activism,
Speaker 1: just coming to the table in terms of how they
Speaker 1: choose to resist tyranny and whatever. For folks that are
Speaker 1: just coming to the table to plug into some good resources,
Speaker 1: and indeed for folks that listen to me and Q
Speaker 1: either on the Black Information Network, on civic side, for
Speaker 1: on any of the shows that we do, just know
Speaker 1: that doctor eberm X k is one such north star
Speaker 1: that we look to to quote a term that Q
Speaker 1: uses quite frequently. You know, people have told us in
Speaker 1: recent you know, weeks and months that now our voice
Speaker 1: is more important than ever, which feels kind of crazy
Speaker 1: because you know, of course, we, like many folks, thought
Speaker 1: the world was going to go in a kinder, more
Speaker 1: intellectually superior direction. But we understand the spirit in which
Speaker 1: that compliment is paid to us, that that, you know,
Speaker 1: what we do now means more than it ever has,
Speaker 1: and that's a compliment that we'd like to pay forward
Speaker 1: to you, sir, because your voice now is more important.
Speaker 1: You know, it's very easy for us to wonder if
Speaker 1: we're going crazy, if we miss something, why is this happening?
Speaker 1: What is this normal? And for a person such as
Speaker 1: yourself who's so connected to history, a person who is
Speaker 1: such an introspective and insightful or tour and author, a
Speaker 1: person who just kind of has some insight and kind
Speaker 1: of lives in a space where a lot of people
Speaker 1: don't because they have to go to work and then
Speaker 1: they have to take care of these kids, and you know,
Speaker 1: they can only tap in from time to time. That's
Speaker 1: all the bandwidth they have. It's important for us to
Speaker 1: make sure that we tell you, of course, but we
Speaker 1: also tell our listeners that you know, there there are
Speaker 1: some folks that really do have the game, so to speak,
Speaker 1: and our estimation, and you're one such individual. So with
Speaker 1: that in mind, I'd like to thank you again very
Speaker 1: much for your time and your insight, of course, coming
Speaker 1: onto the show to share some of your thoughts and
Speaker 1: of course your upcoming book The World to Us once again.
Speaker 1: Today's guest is doctor Ebram X Kendy, a National Book
Speaker 1: Award winning author of the forthcoming book Malcolm Lives. For
Speaker 1: those who may have missed the first part of the episode,
Speaker 1: do us a favor. Hit civiccipher dot com because you
Speaker 1: can download this episode in its entirety. You can also
Speaker 1: submit any questions, any topics, anything that you want us
Speaker 1: to discuss what's going on in your community. If you
Speaker 1: let us know, we can do some investigative journalism and
Speaker 1: do our best to help out. You can also follow
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Speaker 1: YouTube subscribers. Outside of that, you are welcome to follow
Speaker 1: me on all platforms. I am ramses ja Qwards. Of
Speaker 1: course I am Cuward on all platforms and until next week,
Speaker 1: y'all peace,