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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Let me tell you

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Speaker 1: we have a new star.

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Speaker 2: A star is born Elon pumped up on Mars Juthan Kennedy.

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Speaker 1: He is the Thomas Edison plus plus plus of our age.

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Speaker 1: Probably his whole life is from a position of insecurity.

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Speaker 1: I feel for the guy. I would say ninety eight

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Speaker 1: percent really appreciate what he does. But those two percent

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Speaker 1: that are nasty, they are out in four fos. We

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Speaker 1: were meant for great things in the United States of America,

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Speaker 1: and Elon reminds.

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Speaker 2: Us of that we don't have a fourth branch of

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Speaker 2: governments called Elon musk Hey, Mac, David Papadopolis.

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Speaker 1: We're back here, We're back here, Elon Inc.

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Speaker 2: Again.

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Speaker 1: Another emergency episode.

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Speaker 2: I love it, two emergencies in one twenty four hour period.

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Speaker 1: But we just figured here at Elon Inc. That it's

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Speaker 1: just happened in too fast and furious to not be

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Speaker 1: back in your feet again here on Friday, because you know,

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Speaker 1: after Max and Josh Green recorded early yesterday afternoon, the

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Speaker 1: hits just kept coming. You know, Max, The only thing

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Speaker 1: that I regret yesterday as I was watching this all

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Speaker 1: happen and go down, is that my desk in the office.

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Speaker 1: I only had one bag of popcorn with me that

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Speaker 1: was at least a five bagger.

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Speaker 2: You know, this has been disastrous for Elon Musk's businesses

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Speaker 2: as and Elon Inc. The conglomerate that is, the Elon

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Speaker 2: Musk companies. But for X, I gotta say a lot

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Speaker 2: of great content. I mean, I'm sure the traffic is

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Speaker 2: looking good. I think that the grock usage is undoubtedly

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Speaker 2: off the.

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Speaker 1: Charts until that license is pulled from them, which I

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Speaker 1: suspect to happen any minute. Man, it's got to be

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Speaker 1: you know, the numbers got to be way up, all right.

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Speaker 1: Any event. Bring our listeners up to speed on what

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Speaker 1: transpired after yesterday's recording.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so when we recorded yesterday, we were in the

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Speaker 2: as you heard, you know, we were in the throes

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Speaker 2: of it. By the way, Dana Hall, who I am

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Speaker 2: dying to talk to, she's still out. She's on vacation

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Speaker 2: these past two days. So but anyway, we were reacting

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Speaker 2: in real time, and in that moment, you know, it

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Speaker 2: was really just unfolding. You had Trump, you know, giving

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Speaker 2: what I think in retrospect, I'm not sure if I

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Speaker 2: said this at the time, was like for Trump a

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Speaker 2: relatively gracious you know, Like obviously he was criticizing Musk,

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Speaker 2: he was saying, I wish he wouldn't attack the big

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Speaker 2: beautiful Bill, but he was also praising him, he was

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Speaker 2: thanking him. I got the sense that Trump was actually

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Speaker 2: attempting to kind of navigate what was sort of a

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Speaker 2: dicey situation where.

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Speaker 1: His I think Max. I think someone had given him

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Speaker 1: a script that he was trying to stick to, and

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Speaker 1: he initially was, and then the more people were, more

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Speaker 1: questions he got, and the more they baited him, he

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Speaker 1: just threw the script out.

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Speaker 2: So he said a couple of things that I think

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Speaker 2: clearly got under Musk's skin. He suggested that Musk had

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Speaker 2: been upset about the EV tax credits, which is true,

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Speaker 2: must have been tweeting about the EV tax credits. Although

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Speaker 2: that made Musk mad. He's you know, and he started

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Speaker 2: and that's when the kind of back and forth started.

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Speaker 2: He also brought up Jared Isaacman.

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Speaker 1: I told you, Jeric isaacmanh you know, the the the

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Speaker 1: appointment to lead NATHA. Trump absolutely just flat outshad it. Basically,

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Speaker 1: we put a bullet in his head. We took him

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Speaker 1: out back and we decided, you know, this ain't happened.

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Speaker 2: The thing that Trump said and he kind of almost implied,

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Speaker 2: and I have to go back and listen to the tape,

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Speaker 2: but he kind of almost implied there have been something

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Speaker 2: corrupt about having somebody this close, that it was inappropriate,

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Speaker 2: you know, and that combination of the the sort of

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Speaker 2: weirdness of having you know, a close ally of Elon

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Speaker 2: Musk in this position of power, on top of Isaacman's

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Speaker 2: you know, previous Democratic Party donations, it was too much.

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Speaker 1: Of course, the read through there is Elon Musk, I

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump. I'm saying, Elon Musk's guy is out. That

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Speaker 1: was my rethrup. But then the thing after that, it

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Speaker 1: escalated in this back and forth, you know, yeah, Musk

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Speaker 1: on X, Trump on truth and you.

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Speaker 2: Know, well, and the thing that happened so after Elon

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Speaker 2: Musk went on on X and said, you know, Trump

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Speaker 2: would never have been elected without me such ingratitude, which

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Speaker 2: of course is that's going to get under Donald Trump.

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Speaker 2: And you started to see this dynamic that I think

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Speaker 2: a lot of people had been had expected to play

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Speaker 2: out much sooner play out. You know, I feel like

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Speaker 2: there had been this kind of quiet uh, sort of

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Speaker 2: conversation going on between the like White House, the grizzled

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Speaker 2: Trump reporters and the grizzled Elon reporters. And you kind

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Speaker 2: of saw it in that conversation I hid with Josh Green.

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Speaker 2: Like Josh Green has been high on this feud almost

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Speaker 2: from the beginning, because if you're if you've watch Donald Trump,

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Speaker 2: you know that he has this tendency to kind of

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Speaker 2: churn through people. You have the Josh said, you know,

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Speaker 2: on various podcasts that I've done with him to two

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Speaker 2: of these alpha guys, and and and then on the

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Speaker 2: other side you had the Elon Musk. Folks like me,

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Speaker 2: people who had followed Elon Musk had seen him kind

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Speaker 2: of you know, like sort of connect, maneuver his himself,

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Speaker 2: change his positions, you know, do pretty much every rhetorical

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Speaker 2: trick in the book to attain influence, saying hey, he's

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Speaker 2: gonna be able to do this, and and that that

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Speaker 2: second take seemed to hold sway for a while, but

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Speaker 2: you know, yesterday it all came crumbling down. David I wrote,

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Speaker 2: like a week ago, don't Berett bet on the Elon

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Speaker 2: Musk Donald Trump breakup? And I gotta tell you.

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Speaker 1: Now, are we gonna Are we gonna retract that? Now?

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Speaker 1: I suppose we don't.

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Speaker 2: It sounded smart on Friday when they had that, when

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Speaker 2: they had that White House, uh press briefing, and and

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Speaker 2: and then of course now you know, not so smart.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, Trump, after we stopped taping, Trump went on

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Speaker 2: truth Social and said he would the best way to

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Speaker 2: reduce the deficit was to cancel all of Elon Musk's

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Speaker 2: government subsidies, kind of using a line that you had

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Speaker 2: seen some of the left leaning opponents of the Trump

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Speaker 2: administration pull out, like, hey, if you want to deal

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Speaker 2: with Doge, why don't you stop giving handouts to Elon Musk?

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Speaker 2: And Elon Musk went to went like it went ballistic.

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Speaker 2: He accused Trump essentially a pedophilia. He said that Trump

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Speaker 2: had been associated with Epstein, and the reason Epstein, more

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Speaker 2: information about Epstein hadn't come out was because Trump was

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Speaker 2: essentially covering.

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Speaker 1: It up, which we should be We should be clear

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Speaker 1: we have no evidence of any kind.

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Speaker 2: No, Yeah, it seems like he was just shooting from

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Speaker 2: the hip. He suggested that Trump should be impeached and

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Speaker 2: replaced with JD. Vance. He also and I think in

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Speaker 2: a way. This was the most This was like the

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Speaker 2: craziest one. He said he was gonna unilaterally cancel the

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Speaker 2: Dragon spacecraft. The Dragon spacecraft is how the US government

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Speaker 2: gets to and from the International Space Station. We talked

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Speaker 2: about those astronauts, you know, being you know, whether or

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Speaker 2: not they were stranded up there, but the astronauts that

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Speaker 2: were up there, and they needed a SpaceX spacecraft to

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Speaker 2: bring them down. Musk was saying, fine, you don't like me,

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Speaker 2: you don't want to deal with me. Programs canceled. He tweeted,

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Speaker 2: go ahead, make my day. And then you saw people

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Speaker 2: in Trump world say, Harry totally. And he saw people

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Speaker 2: in Trump world of Steve Bannon suggesting the government should

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Speaker 2: nationalize SpaceX. And honestly, if that, if that dispute went

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Speaker 2: much further, I think you would have seen other folks

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Speaker 2: say that. You look at what conservative lawmakers. The problem

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Speaker 2: that Elon Musk has now is he he carved out

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Speaker 2: this like maximalist deficit hawk position, which I think he

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Speaker 2: could have, which I think would have been okay. It

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Speaker 2: would have been like a public negotiation with Trump over

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Speaker 2: what's in this tax bill. But he also talked like

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Speaker 2: a crazy person. So so it's very hard to take

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Speaker 2: his criticism seriously when he's also you know, hurling these

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Speaker 2: unfounded allegations about Jeffy the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: The whole thing, you know he came off in Yesterday's

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Speaker 1: a touch unhinged. I mean, I would say a touch,

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Speaker 1: you know, Max, to your point on the financial damage

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Speaker 1: that Trump can inflict on Musk and is honestly the

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Speaker 1: brtality of his empire. One only needs to think about

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Speaker 1: what the Trump administration right now is doing to an

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Speaker 1: institution like oh, say, Harvard, uh and to appreciate, you know,

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Speaker 1: the kind of you know, unconventional tactics they're willing to use.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, a brief parenthetical aside, I wonder

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Speaker 1: if Musk is going to start getting more of those

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Speaker 1: Musk and his team are going to start getting more

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Speaker 1: of those drug tests over there at space X. But

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Speaker 1: I will just say this though, Max. Here at the

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Speaker 1: time we're recording, just am noon on Friday, I notice

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Speaker 1: on my Bloomberg terminal that Tesla stock is bouncing back

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Speaker 1: a bit. Things have whided a little bit this morning.

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Speaker 1: Maybe maybe maybe they're gonna be kissing and making up soon.

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Speaker 2: Look, maybe my take from last week will along, I

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Speaker 2: do think, and you know, I'm like hesitant to make

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Speaker 2: this prediction just because I did not see this one coming.

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Speaker 2: You know, I really was surprised. I've covered Elon Musk

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Speaker 2: for a long time. Little of what he does surprises me,

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Speaker 2: but this did because it just seems so self destructive.

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Speaker 2: It's like it it does not help his company to

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Speaker 2: pick this kind of fight with Donald Trump, and I

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Speaker 2: think they're investors who are still hoping for some kind

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Speaker 2: of reconciliation. Actually, last night, amid the flurry of tweets,

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Speaker 2: some random Twitter user, you know, uh, sent a message

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Speaker 2: to Musk saying it might be a good idea to

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Speaker 2: take a couple of days and cool off.

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Speaker 1: And so was that random guy? Was that Bill Ackman?

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Speaker 2: Well, no, no, Bill Ackman was another one. You had

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Speaker 2: Kanye West, you had Bill Ackman, and this guy with

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Speaker 2: just a couple hundred Twitter followers. Musk responded, I think

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Speaker 2: he responded to Ackman as well, kind of saying sounds

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Speaker 2: like a good idea. So there was actually some sign

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Speaker 2: on Thursday night yesterday, as we're recording this, that that

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Speaker 2: that he might that he might try to walk this back.

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Speaker 2: There had been a signal from the White House that

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Speaker 2: they would be open to having a call with Elon Musk,

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Speaker 2: but then Trump told CNN no call. He also said

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Speaker 2: he's planning on selling the Tesla that he bought at

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Speaker 2: that White House event, And so the standoff continues. Although

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Speaker 2: I think Musk, you know, if he's trying to help

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Speaker 2: himself and his companies, will try to find a way

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Speaker 2: to de escalate. I think it's going to cost him

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Speaker 2: some humiliation. He's gonna have to eat crow. It's also

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Speaker 2: going to cost him, I would guess, a substantial campaign

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Speaker 2: contribution or a contribution to Donald Trump's super pack.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because as much as Trump has to lose here, potentially,

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Speaker 1: I think it's pretty clear that it's a more dangerous

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Speaker 1: game for Musk. Musk has more to lose. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: I think we saw that pretty quickly in the first

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Speaker 1: several hours. I mean, he still is by far the

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Speaker 1: world's richest person, but you know, he personally saw his

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Speaker 1: wealth collapse thirty four billion dollars in four hours, Okay,

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Speaker 1: And in a scenario in which this thing just kept

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Speaker 1: ratcheting up and up and up, that number was just

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Speaker 1: going to keep cratering. It is off the front burner,

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Speaker 1: at least for the moment. Well, listen, we are definitely

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Speaker 1: going to be back in your feeds next Tuesday for

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Speaker 1: a regular weekly show, but in the intro MAAC anything,

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Speaker 1: our listeners should be, you know, alert for two things.

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Speaker 2: One is the robotaxi launch supposedly is going to happen

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Speaker 2: as soon as next week. I we'll see, right it

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Speaker 2: wasn't shaping up to be some kind of blockbuster. We'll

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Speaker 2: see if they go through with it, if they try

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Speaker 2: to use it as a way to change the channel,

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Speaker 2: or if they decide, hey, you know better to delay this.

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Speaker 2: We have kind of excuse to delay it. Even the

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Speaker 2: other thing, and I think this is really important Tesla investors.

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Speaker 2: You know, I still think it's unthinkable that they would

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Speaker 2: replace Musk, And we've talked about this a lot, just

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Speaker 2: because of the way the shareholder bases, just because of

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Speaker 2: the way the board is constructed. They are going to

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Speaker 2: give him the benefit of the doubt to the extreme.

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Speaker 2: But in my own conversations with Tesla investors, including bulls,

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Speaker 2: you're hearing a change in tone, and you're seeing it

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Speaker 2: in some public comments as well, not like hey, we

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Speaker 2: need to get rid of Musk, but kind of a

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Speaker 2: return to where we were a few weeks ago when

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Speaker 2: they were asking him to return to his companies. I

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Speaker 2: think that we are not that far from more investors

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Speaker 2: sort of speaking out if this doesn't de escalate quickly,

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Speaker 2: because Tesla is just in an incredibly difficult position where

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Speaker 2: it's already alienated it's left wing fan base, it's in

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Speaker 2: danger of alienating its right wing fan base. So that's

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Speaker 2: something I'm gonna be watching this weekend if something big happens.

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Speaker 2: Of course, you know, David, you and I we're going

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Speaker 2: to do this again.

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Speaker 1: I mean I will if that happens, I will stop

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Speaker 1: for a few minutes watching and betting on this weekend's

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Speaker 1: horse races, and we'll do this, Max, We'll absolutely do this.

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Speaker 1: My parting shot is I think they need to bring

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Speaker 1: back the Twitter sitter and that would certainly help. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that would probably be a big help. Max Chaffkin, Thank.

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Speaker 2: You, sir, Thank you, David so soon.

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Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Magnus Hendrickson. Anna Mathurakus is

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Speaker 1: our editor. The elon ing theme is written and performed

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Speaker 1: by Taka Yathuzawa and Alex Sugujura. Brendan Francis Noona was

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Speaker 1: our executive producer and stage Bauman is the head of

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Podcast. A big thanks to our supporters, Joel Webber

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Speaker 1: and Bradstone. I'm David Papadopoulos. If you have a minute,

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