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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Sportsman's Nation podcast network, brought to

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Speaker 1: you by Lacrosse Boots. So here's what Lacrosse has recently done.

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Speaker 1: more about their high quality, awesome boots, you need to

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Speaker 1: go to Lacrosse Footwear dot com. My name is Clay Nucleman.

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Speaker 1: I'm the host of the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. I'll

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Speaker 1: also be your host into the world of hunting the

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Speaker 1: icon of North American wilderness bear. We'll talk about tactics, gear, conservation,

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Speaker 1: but will also bring you into some of the wildest

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Speaker 1: country on the planet Chasing them m This is the

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Speaker 1: third podcast in our Hound series and this is a

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Speaker 1: very unique podcast because we traveled all the way out

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Speaker 1: to Posey, California to meet with my now friend Advance

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Speaker 1: Ed wrote a book called Trained by Hound Dog and

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Speaker 1: it's an incredible story about his life as a lion

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Speaker 1: and bear hunter in southern California. Nevada, Utah, and Montana.

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Speaker 1: I'd like to ask you for a favor, and that

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Speaker 1: is to go and check out Ed's book. Look at

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Speaker 1: it on his website Trained by hound Dog dot com.

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Speaker 1: And if you enjoy hound stories or just epic hunting stories,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna enjoy this very well written book. Bye bye, Ed,

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Speaker 1: So check that out. I also want to draw your

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Speaker 1: attention to a product and a company that I've used

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Speaker 1: now for several years, and that is Northwoods Bear Products.

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Speaker 1: If you're baiting bear, this is an incredible commercial scent

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Speaker 1: line of products that I've personally used. And go to

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Speaker 1: Northwoods Bear Products dot net and check out all the

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Speaker 1: stuff They've got got all kind of sprays, all kind

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Speaker 1: of scents, powders. But my favorite thing that Northwoods makes

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Speaker 1: is there gold Rush. Gold Rush. Northwoods gold Rush is

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Speaker 1: a concentrated liquid that comes in small bottles and it's

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Speaker 1: a friar grease additive. So you get used fried grease

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Speaker 1: or new frier grease or just oil even and you

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Speaker 1: mix in this gold Rush in there, and it turns

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Speaker 1: this friar grease into an extremely powerful scent attractant that

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Speaker 1: sticks to bears, paws and they make bear trails. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of a butterscotchy scent. It's an incredible product, and

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Speaker 1: I've seen it draw bears and heard tons of stories

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Speaker 1: about the drawing power of this stuff. So it's not

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Speaker 1: just something I'm telling you about to sell it. This

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Speaker 1: is the stuff that we've used, and I use it

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Speaker 1: every time I bait and every time I start a bait.

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Speaker 1: So check out our friends at Northwood's Bear Products dot Net.

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Speaker 1: Now onto Posey, California to Advances Home. The green Horn

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Speaker 1: Mountains of southern California look like a steep, rolling savannah

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Speaker 1: of grass and trees, many of which are some type

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Speaker 1: of small oak. The mountains go up over seven thousand feet,

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Speaker 1: many as steep as a cow space. For this property,

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Speaker 1: I call it lions and bears all over everything, all

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Speaker 1: of all of this stuff that you can see. Add

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Speaker 1: points to a bear hide hanging on the wall of

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Speaker 1: his home. And that was one of the toughest bears

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Speaker 1: that I ever got my dogs after. I mean I

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Speaker 1: had others they were just as bad. Because there's right

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Speaker 1: here I'm gonna explain to you, and I'm gonna show

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Speaker 1: you where it started, where it went to, and where

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Speaker 1: it ended it come right here at this house. Advance

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Speaker 1: is seventy eight years old, and he hunted these mountains

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Speaker 1: for lions and bear in a twenty five year stretch

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Speaker 1: from the nineteen sixties through the nineteen eighties. Today he

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Speaker 1: can see much of his favorite hunting ground from the

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Speaker 1: incredible view from his home. But I want to explain,

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Speaker 1: I want to show you. We're gonna walk over here.

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Speaker 1: We'll have to walk around a little bit in order

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Speaker 1: for you to do to take in all of what

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna show you. Because Ed is a gifted craftsman

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Speaker 1: with wood, brick and stone. His home he built himself.

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Speaker 1: It's a mix of a timber framed bungalow style Western

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Speaker 1: log cabin, ornate with saddles worn cowboy hats, bear hides

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Speaker 1: in a mounted mountain lion killed before the hunting band

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Speaker 1: in California. It's clear to see that Ed is meticulate,

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Speaker 1: master of everything that he takes on, and at one

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Speaker 1: period in his life his entire focus was hunting lions

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Speaker 1: and bears with hounds. This particular bear that I got

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Speaker 1: out after it was in Uh I mentioned in the book. Um.

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Speaker 1: I started him in October and it was just at

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Speaker 1: the crack of dawn, and I had I couldn't find

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Speaker 1: a bear by driving roads, so I got uh. I

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Speaker 1: had two hunters with me, and uh, so we stopped,

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Speaker 1: and I says, I want to walk up a canyon

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Speaker 1: and see if I can get a bear started up there.

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Speaker 1: And I'm gonna show you where this is at. You

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Speaker 1: see this bridge right in front of us. So you

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Speaker 1: see a lone tree standing up there, all by myself.

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Speaker 1: From that tree, if you went straight down into the canyon,

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Speaker 1: you see the ridge on the other side, straight down

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Speaker 1: into the bottom. That's where they started this bear. I

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Speaker 1: went up there and then and they struck this bear

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Speaker 1: h and this ridge. You can see where that lone

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Speaker 1: tree stand and you can see the ridge that it's on,

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Speaker 1: and that ridge follows and keeps going. And then he

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Speaker 1: gets right up to a point they pulled him out

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Speaker 1: of that canon. He came out of that canyon, crossed

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Speaker 1: onto this side of that ridge, and he skirted that

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Speaker 1: ridge almost on the top all the way around. And

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Speaker 1: then where you can see that one high point, he

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Speaker 1: turned and he went to the opposite side of it.

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Speaker 1: Now there was no roads to speak of it, so

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Speaker 1: I was following him on foot hmm. By the time

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Speaker 1: I got to there, I could hear those dogs. It

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Speaker 1: was placed called Portuguese Pass, and Portuguese Pass is the

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Speaker 1: furthest ridge that you can see as far as you

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Speaker 1: can see, and he's just about to go over, and

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Speaker 1: I thought, if he goes over that, so there's a

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Speaker 1: big valley in between that it's called bull Run Basin.

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Speaker 1: The other side is called bull Run Basin. I was

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Speaker 1: north of that high point that we're talking about, which

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Speaker 1: is from right where that point is out to where

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Speaker 1: it started. Yeah, it's only like maybe three miles through

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Speaker 1: the air, but we weren't going through the air. We

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Speaker 1: were going on ground, and it's different. It's different. So

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Speaker 1: I got around to the other side of that and

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Speaker 1: I heard those dogs headed towards Portuguese Pass. I had

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Speaker 1: five dogs on it, I recall, and they were really

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Speaker 1: hammering that thing. And I was suspicious of what bear

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Speaker 1: this was, because I I didn't know at the time,

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Speaker 1: but I called him two other times and let him go,

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Speaker 1: and he was a non treable bear. You're gonna bay

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Speaker 1: him out. That was it. So as far as you

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Speaker 1: can see, they just he just about got over that

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Speaker 1: far ridge and they were then he was he was

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Speaker 1: moving and and these dogs were hitting it as hard

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Speaker 1: as they could, and that he is like extremely steep

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Speaker 1: and rough. And then I lost hearing of them. Now

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Speaker 1: we're gonna have to walk to another spot. Well, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna want to show you where this thing ended up at.

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Speaker 1: In the meantime I had to. I had these two

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Speaker 1: guys that where I was. I had him here on

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Speaker 1: a bear hunt, and they were waiting for me at

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Speaker 1: my pickup. I had a CB radio and the pick up.

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Speaker 1: Walk up on this little dog here a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I can show you a little bit further. Get right

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Speaker 1: up there in that opening it if it's shinna nice

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Speaker 1: to be living in a spot where I can take

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Speaker 1: and look at places like this and say, well I

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Speaker 1: know what had happened because I was there and it

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Speaker 1: did happen. Now we look straight ahead of us, and

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Speaker 1: we can see him rounded mountain and on this side

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Speaker 1: has been burned. And I mentioned to you that at

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Speaker 1: the transition between the trees that have been burned, which

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Speaker 1: were lower as the ones above, those dogs were on

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Speaker 1: that side. You keep in mind, they started over here,

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Speaker 1: they went around that point, and when they did that,

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Speaker 1: I lost him I had no idea where they were.

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Speaker 1: I was no I was. I was up on this

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Speaker 1: from where you started swoops down Portugue passes in there.

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Speaker 1: I was up in that area someplace, and I could

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Speaker 1: hear my dogs going down on that hillside, which is

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Speaker 1: several miles from there too, and I could hear him

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Speaker 1: for several miles and then they disappeared. So I came

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Speaker 1: down through all of that. And it's late in the afternoon.

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Speaker 1: I'll keep in mind this started or about six in

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Speaker 1: the morning, late in the afternoon, which would be about

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna say about three o'clock. I crossed this road

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Speaker 1: right here, the road that I'm living on, but I

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Speaker 1: was about four miles up. When ED got to the road,

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Speaker 1: he cranked on the CBE radio and heard the voice

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Speaker 1: of a good friend that he didn't even know was

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Speaker 1: in the area. Asked me, He says, let me come

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Speaker 1: and get you. And I said, do you have you

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Speaker 1: heard my dogs? And he said, yes, your dogs the

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Speaker 1: last I heard. And he says, your dogs are done

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Speaker 1: on White River by the campground. Now I'm gonna show

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Speaker 1: you what White River Campground is. That he wanted to

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Speaker 1: come and pick me up, and I said, no, I

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Speaker 1: want to just go across the country. I'm just gonna

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Speaker 1: keep it's all downhill, and I can travel pretty fast

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Speaker 1: going downhill. And uh, as long as I know that

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Speaker 1: that's where they're at and anything. From this time, you've

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Speaker 1: already traveled twelve fourteen miles close to that through through

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Speaker 1: air miles, and so you're going down in these steep

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Speaker 1: valleys and ravines and up mountains. Yeah, because where the

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Speaker 1: bear was started was at the five thousand foot elevation

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Speaker 1: in Portuguee Passes seven thousand. So they almost got he

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Speaker 1: almost had. You had to. You had to lose elevation

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Speaker 1: and gaining yes, yes, back and forth, back and forth.

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Speaker 1: The road. If you look right down in the bottom

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Speaker 1: the canon, you see a dirt road down there. And

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Speaker 1: when I got there, those dogs. White River was about

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Speaker 1: five miles from there to the north, and those dogs

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Speaker 1: and they were coming this to the south, about halfway

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Speaker 1: between that ridge that you're looking at in the bottom

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Speaker 1: of the canyon, which is about a thousand foot drop

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Speaker 1: in elevation below where I was at, and he started

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Speaker 1: he started skirting going this way. He's going southwest. I

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Speaker 1: followed that ridge and knowing that if he gets on

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Speaker 1: this side of it, I'm just gonna lose. Those doctors

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Speaker 1: are gonna go down and nothing but private land, and

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Speaker 1: I can't get into that stuff. So not halfway between

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Speaker 1: these two points, which is gonna be about a half

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Speaker 1: three quarters of a mile, he was getting close to

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Speaker 1: crossing over, and I got to where I could drop down,

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Speaker 1: and I came head on onto him and we walked

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Speaker 1: right into each other. When he saw me, he spun

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Speaker 1: and I had this. They weren't behind him, they were

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Speaker 1: all right alongside of it. They're right on and yeah,

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Speaker 1: I got Mike shot at him, and I was almost

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Speaker 1: at the bottom between those two ridges. In fact, there's

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Speaker 1: some ranchers said they was listening to the whole thing,

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Speaker 1: and I shot and killed him right there. So how

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Speaker 1: many miles it is, I don't know, but I do

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Speaker 1: know this. I had twenty minutes to get the hide

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Speaker 1: off of him, and it was gonna be dark. I

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Speaker 1: don't have a clue how many miles that is. It

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Speaker 1: has to be in straight line air miles, fifteen air miles.

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Speaker 1: But we're talking about starting to five thousand foot in

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Speaker 1: the elevation, going up and down until you get to

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Speaker 1: seven thousand foot and then going up and down until

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Speaker 1: you drop down to buy elevation. And that's what it

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Speaker 1: took to stop that whole race. That's an incredible feed

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Speaker 1: for the dog, has been an incredible feat for a man.

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Speaker 1: This bear is the only bear hide that Ed still

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Speaker 1: has in his home. Ed wrote an incredible book that

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Speaker 1: you're gonna hear about inside of this podcast that tells

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Speaker 1: many of the stories and tales of his twenty five

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Speaker 1: years of hunting California, Utah, Nevada, and Montana with a

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Speaker 1: pack of hounds. Welcome to the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast

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Speaker 1: We Are This is gonna be a really neat episode.

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Speaker 1: I'm in the home of a man that's become a

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Speaker 1: friend of mine today really um, but I feel like

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Speaker 1: i've I feel like I know you after I read

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Speaker 1: your book. But I'm in the home of of Ed

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Speaker 1: and Lynette Advance and we're in Posey, California, which Ed,

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Speaker 1: I would not have known where Posey, California was until

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Speaker 1: I learned that you lived here. But it's an incredible

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Speaker 1: and beautiful place just south of the Sierra Nevadas, or

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Speaker 1: we're in the southern Sierra Nevadas. Is that on the

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Speaker 1: southern southern tip of the Sierra Nevadas, in a mountain

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Speaker 1: range known as the Greenhorn Mountains, and uh Sekoyan National

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Speaker 1: Forest and Sequoya National Monument is um right on these

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Speaker 1: Greenhorn Mountains. UM, a place that a lot of people

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Speaker 1: really don't know about. In fact, there's people that, um,

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Speaker 1: we've met that live in the valley, the San Joaquin Valley.

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Speaker 1: They've never even gone up into these mountains and they

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Speaker 1: have no idea what's up here. Um. Well, this morning

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Speaker 1: we started off in I mean we were in Los Angeles,

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles, California. Seven seven h seven lane going one way,

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Speaker 1: seven lane traffic going the other. And we drove two

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Speaker 1: and a half hours. And I mean we're twenty miles

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Speaker 1: from a gas station. I mean we're more than that.

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Speaker 1: We're in really you're forty miles away from the gas station.

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Speaker 1: The only thing that um, the closest little town is

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Speaker 1: a town called Glenville. It's in Current County. We're until

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Speaker 1: Larry County, and um, there's not much difference between the

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Speaker 1: two counties actually, but um in Posey, all that we

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Speaker 1: have in Posey as the post office for somebody who

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Speaker 1: doesn't or did not know much about California. California is

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Speaker 1: an incredible state for wildlife and and and really has

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Speaker 1: an incredibly rich history and hunting and and that's why

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Speaker 1: I'm here is uh so Ed wrote a book called

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Speaker 1: Trained by a hound Dog. The book was released back

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Speaker 1: in November. And the book is is basically a collection

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Speaker 1: of stories about Ed's life as a as a houndsman,

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Speaker 1: hunting mountain lions and bears in these mountains right here

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Speaker 1: where we're at. And uh. And so that's what I

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Speaker 1: want to talk to you about today, is I want

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Speaker 1: to I want people to get a feel for for

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Speaker 1: your history and hound hunting and and uh. And in

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Speaker 1: doing that, we're gonna talk about the book. And and

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Speaker 1: we just did a I didn't know Ed, wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: known Ed, but several months ago it was probably Lynette

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Speaker 1: that contacted me just through Bare Hunting magazine and said,

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Speaker 1: I'd like to send you a book that my husband wrote.

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Speaker 1: And I said, well sure. And I get a lot

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Speaker 1: of books, and I really do a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people write books, and I read a

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Speaker 1: lot of books, and uh, when I read this book,

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Speaker 1: it I could tell that the voice of this writer

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Speaker 1: was someone special. I really did. And uh and I

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Speaker 1: as I as I read the book, I thought, man,

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Speaker 1: I'd like to I'd like to meet that guy. And

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Speaker 1: uh and and it just so happened that our family

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Speaker 1: was coming to California, And so I looked up where Posey,

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Speaker 1: California was, because that's on your Trained by Hound Dog website,

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Speaker 1: and it was just a couple of hours out of

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Speaker 1: where we were. And so you graciously said, yeah, come

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Speaker 1: onto the house, fed us lunch, and here we are.

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Speaker 1: I've got my whole family here and uh and we're

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Speaker 1: here with you and and and so anyway, thank you

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Speaker 1: for hosting. Welcome. We're sure happy to have you here. Um.

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Speaker 1: I hope that this will turn into a um a

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Speaker 1: long term friendship, and I'm sure I will. You know,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to say something about these mountains here. Um hm.

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Speaker 1: During the during the years of the Bounty for Mountain

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Speaker 1: Lions and a lot of people have no idea of this,

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Speaker 1: there was a there was a California state line under

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Speaker 1: that lived here and his name was Howard Builton. And

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Speaker 1: I wish that I'd have known Howard. He died just

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Speaker 1: about the same time that I started hunting these mountains.

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Speaker 1: But had he been alive when I was doing this,

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Speaker 1: that guy that had a hard time getting rid of me,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that. But I was really surprised when I

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Speaker 1: moved here and talked to guys that had hound dogs

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Speaker 1: that there was hardly anybody other than the long time

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Speaker 1: residences that even knew that this guy even existed here.

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Speaker 1: But he did, and and like to say, he was

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Speaker 1: a full time line uner for the state of California,

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Speaker 1: and uh, I think he was. I checked his record,

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Speaker 1: and in his final years of as a state lion enter,

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Speaker 1: he was actually killing about fifteen lions a year, which

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Speaker 1: you know, that's quite a few, actually, and that's some places,

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Speaker 1: you know that the where you have snow all the

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Speaker 1: time to catch your lions. Fifteen lions might not sound

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Speaker 1: like a whole lot to some of those people, but

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Speaker 1: here it was predominantly bare ground trailing. And uh so

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Speaker 1: you couldn't just go and roam around these seals looking

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Speaker 1: for a line track in the snow because it just

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Speaker 1: wasn't it wasn't there. And so the dogs that they

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Speaker 1: used had to be pretty good quality dogs. The hunters

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Speaker 1: had to be totally dedicated, and uh that's what I

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Speaker 1: found in this part of the country. I've seen some

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Speaker 1: places it was pretty easy to catch lions as compared

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Speaker 1: to others. When I was in Montana, it was definitely

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Speaker 1: one of the easiest places because it's it's like it's

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Speaker 1: snowed almost every day and every time that she'd find

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Speaker 1: a line track is just about counting on. It was

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Speaker 1: one very old, you know, but that and then the

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Speaker 1: bear population in in this part of the country is

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Speaker 1: um really good. It's far better than people would have

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Speaker 1: thought it was. Um. The entire Sierrara Mountain Range has

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Speaker 1: been and and the Coast Range both have been noted

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Speaker 1: forever for having the a lot of a lot of

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Speaker 1: bears um and a lot of large bears to go

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Speaker 1: with it. And the reasons for that was basically because

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Speaker 1: the winners were short, growing seasons were long, and there

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Speaker 1: was either oak trees or oak brush that's covering all

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Speaker 1: these hills and uh, those happened to produce acorns, and

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Speaker 1: acorns bears love them and they get fat on them.

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Speaker 1: So so it's it was an area that very unique.

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Speaker 1: But at the same time, a lot of people in

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Speaker 1: this part of the country, they say that they use

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Speaker 1: a term that posey California was Tillarry County's best kept

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Speaker 1: secret because nobody seemed to know where it was at.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, even at the county seat, we've had

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Speaker 1: to talk to people out of the building department and

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Speaker 1: some of them didn't even know where we were and

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Speaker 1: we're in their county. But anyways, no, it's it's a

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Speaker 1: beautiful place. Um. Four seasons, Winner is the shortest, Summer

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Speaker 1: is the longest, and a lot of beautiful scenery to

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Speaker 1: go with it. Ed, give us a give us a

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Speaker 1: kind of a run through of your well, just let

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Speaker 1: me let me just start off with this, when did

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Speaker 1: you start hunting with hound and how did you get

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Speaker 1: into it? And why? Because you didn't grow up in

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Speaker 1: a family that had hounds. I mean that was when

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Speaker 1: I first started reading the book that caught my attention

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Speaker 1: because a lot of time, most of the time, somebody

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Speaker 1: that's in hounds is introduced to it or there's some

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Speaker 1: pretty close connection to them that was able to get

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Speaker 1: them in. But it's almost like you started running hounds

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Speaker 1: just this was your own. Yeah, you know, I always

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Speaker 1: as a kid, I grew up in a suburb for

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Speaker 1: the town by the name of Glendale in California. And

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Speaker 1: in those days, of course, the population wasn't what it

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Speaker 1: was today. And I kind of like the act like

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Speaker 1: I was hunting him, because if it right from our house,

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Speaker 1: you just go off in the hills, they're just covered

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Speaker 1: with brush, and uh just kind of make believe, you know.

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Speaker 1: But over time I drifted away from that, and then

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Speaker 1: I found myself working in an assembly plant for Chevrolet

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Speaker 1: in Van Eys, California. Yeah, and directly across the line

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Speaker 1: from me was a a guy by the name of

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Speaker 1: Sherwood Barrett, and uh he was from Georgia, and and

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Speaker 1: sure what he he was a Mormon, and he told me,

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Speaker 1: he says that he left Georgia and he's on his

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Speaker 1: way to Salt Lake City and because he wanted to

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Speaker 1: live there, but he had to get go someplace and

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Speaker 1: earn some money in the process. And so he was

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Speaker 1: I was putting gas lines, gasoline lines on these cards

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Speaker 1: as they passed, if fifty something an hour, and so

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Speaker 1: we'd get a few moments every now and then to visit.

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Speaker 1: And he started telling me about chasing these hound dogs

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Speaker 1: in the Oki Pinocchi Swamp in Georgia, and uh, it

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Speaker 1: really caught my interests. I mean, it really did. And

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Speaker 1: they're on ragged coons. Yeah, and uh so, anyways, he

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Speaker 1: teld me these stories about this what he was doing,

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Speaker 1: and it just really got my interest, and so I

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Speaker 1: asked him, I said, Sherwood, where would you Where do

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Speaker 1: you go to buy these dogs? And he told me,

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Speaker 1: says he could have like outdoor Life. They had these

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Speaker 1: guys advertising him. I didn't know at the time that

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00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,679
Speaker 1: most of those guys were selling dogs. Nobody wanted, you know,

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Speaker 1: and people like myself and buy him because I didn't

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Speaker 1: know what I was buying in the first place. So anyways,

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Speaker 1: I started with that and what was your intention? Was

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Speaker 1: your intention to run? I just wanted I like dogs,

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Speaker 1: and I liked the idea of hunting and as honey

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Speaker 1: with dogs, dounding it good. So you would have been

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Speaker 1: in your early twenties probably at this time I was.

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Speaker 1: I was just I just wanted some hunting dogs. I

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Speaker 1: was like twenty years old, and nobody in my family

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00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: it had never even heard of it. And so I

397
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 1: ordered a dog from him, and I got a red

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Speaker 1: bone hound and us nice looking dog actually called him Buck.

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00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 1: He seemed to know his name. So I got this

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00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,679
Speaker 1: dog and I didn't know where to go hunting, so

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00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: I took off and it went up and in the

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00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 1: in the mountains up by Ventura, which is just covered

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Speaker 1: with brush, and I actually have a terrible place to

404
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: try and hunt dogs. And I never caught anything with him.

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Speaker 1: And then I started meeting different guys that had hound

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00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: dogs and they weren't doing any good either, And uh

407
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 1: so I pooled around with those different fellas and and

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00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: the dogs that they had and the couple of dogs

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Speaker 1: that I had, and eventually I learned that what these

410
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: dogs were chasing was not anything they could climb a

411
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Speaker 1: tree at all. But the guys that are hunting with

412
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: they were just fooling themselves about, you know, what they're

413
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: really but they were after, but they were probably chasing deer.

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Speaker 1: They were chasing deer, It's what they were chasing. Know.

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Speaker 1: So time went by, and the next thing I knew,

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Speaker 1: I was introduced to a guy out of Utah by

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Speaker 1: the name of Willis but Toff, which was a very

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Speaker 1: well known government hunter and had caught hundreds of lions,

419
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,119
Speaker 1: unbelievable numbers of lions. I mean it had really caught

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00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 1: them too as well. And so I got with him

421
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 1: and hunted with him a few times, and I bought

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00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:34,159
Speaker 1: a few dogs from him, and uh from there I

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00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:41,159
Speaker 1: started learning about the difference between hunting dogs and taking

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00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:46,360
Speaker 1: dogs hunting and kitchen stuff and uh so, then from

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00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: there I ended up losing a couple of these dogs too,

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00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 1: too tenady poison, which was terrible, terrible situation. And that

427
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: was in Utah. And then I ended up meeting a

428
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: I it lived. It was he worked for a big

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00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 1: farm out of Wacoe, California, and he said that the

430
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: people told me that he had a hound and he

431
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 1: might sell because of his age, and uh I got

432
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 1: in touch with him. The guy's name is J. D. Reynolds,

433
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 1: and he had this red tick count that he said

434
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: he would sell, and I bought him, and I couldn't

435
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: believe what I had bought. I went from from not

436
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 1: catching anything to speak of to every time I put

437
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 1: that dogs filled on the ground, he caught something. And

438
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: he didn't run deer, he didn't run coyotes, and he

439
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 1: caught bobcats and raccoons and foxes every time he hit

440
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 1: the ground practically. And from there I started learning the

441
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:03,199
Speaker 1: difference between good dogs, mediocre dogs, and dogs that just

442
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 1: aren't any good. And uh so on the book that

443
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 1: I titled the title Trained by a hound Dog, that

444
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: title was really thinking about this dog, this red take down,

445
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 1: which we called Bow. And uh like I said, he

446
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 1: was six years older than I got him. I was

447
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 1: working as a carpenter framing houses in Thousand Oaks, California,

448
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 1: where framing houses there as a carpenter was more like

449
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: an athletic contest than it was anything else, because it

450
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: is all peace work and and and you didn't get

451
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: paid much for the for what she did. And if

452
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: you're gonna have any money at all, you're gonna work

453
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: like you're fighting fire from the moment you got there

454
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 1: until it was time to go home, which I did.

455
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 1: And I'd take and load Bow up on Friday nights,

456
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: and I'd head off from Ventura, California to the Green Worn,

457
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: which is where we're at right now, and which is

458
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: where Bow was read actually trained. He came from Arkansas.

459
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: He was a red Dack count um out of the

460
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: Elbert Vaughan stock of English Towns, which eventually became the

461
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: over one Blue Ticks, But in those days he was

462
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: still dealing with registered English dogs, and which is the

463
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: same thing basically, just different colors. And I think that

464
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: first year I'd get off work and I'd drove all

465
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: the way up here, which was three and a half

466
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: to four hours each way, after working all all week.

467
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: And I think that first year I had Bowen and

468
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: I bought a a plothound. I called him Pat, and

469
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: he was like two years old when I got him.

470
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: Bo wouldn't run a line at all. He wouldn't I'd

471
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: find a line track was fresh, and he wouldn't pay

472
00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 1: any attention. But Pat had been on some lions. I

473
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: got Pat from Willis put Off in Utah, and he'd

474
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: been on these lions, so he he was eager more

475
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 1: eager to try and trail. And and then bow was

476
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 1: Bo didn't care. And I think I caught on Friday

477
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: night hunting Friday nights and Saturday right out a hundred

478
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: animals that first year. And that was driving four hours

479
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 1: each way to go after putting in five days of

480
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: slave labor type work, you know, which it was very

481
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 1: impressive to me. And it was basically bobcats and foxes

482
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 1: with so they tree, these foxes and these little oak

483
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: trees they do three here. That's called a great cross

484
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: fox and um there are a lot harder to tree

485
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: than the bobcats are and um. But then two and

486
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: then in the summer months, you had to have something

487
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 1: that was really good too to be able to even

488
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: trail any of it, because the trailing conditions got really

489
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 1: pull are very dry conditions, very difficult for most towns

490
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: to be able to to catch much of anything in

491
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 1: the summer months. And uh, but it didn't seem to

492
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: make any difference that dog would do it. And so

493
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: that anyway, that's the the title of Trained by a

494
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: hound dog was that I was taught by a hound

495
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 1: dog named Bow. He taught you what a what a

496
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: good dog was supposed to do. He what not only

497
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 1: what is supposed to be, but I was able to

498
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: use him to take younger dogs and train him. And

499
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,959
Speaker 1: uh and I and and the experience that I had

500
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: had prior to this, I did learn that one of

501
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: the things that hownd Under doesn't want to do with

502
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 1: his dogs is get him in bad company. And up

503
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 1: until I had gotten Um introduced to Willis, buttop most

504
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: of the hunting that I did with anybody was his

505
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: old dogs and bad company. And uh, bow was he

506
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: was straight, he was a clean dog. And from there

507
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: I started um having other dogs, and you started really

508
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: searching across the country I did for for hounds. You

509
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 1: would have been now, so you're still in your early twenties,

510
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: and that's when you set out to try to get

511
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: a sustainable pack of hounds. Yeah, I was about twenty

512
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 1: five years old. I guess when I got Bow, maybe

513
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: twenty six at the most. What year would that have

514
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: been in the sixties. Yeah, I think I got Bow

515
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: in sixty three sixty four. He was born in ninety

516
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: He was born in Paragould, Arkansas, and which is where

517
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: Albert lived. But Elbert didn't have him, but Elbert owned

518
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: the father to him. And now you went and spent

519
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: some time down there. I did because j D. Reynolds,

520
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: this guy in Waco that I got it, got the

521
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 1: dog from. He was from Para Gould and he grew

522
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: up with Albert Vaughan and j D told me that, uh,

523
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: if I was interested in that line of dog, it

524
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: would probably be a good idea for me to take

525
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: off and go back and visit with Albert, which I did,

526
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,479
Speaker 1: and uh I stayed with Albert for I think it's

527
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 1: about three months. And UH, ever wanted to hire me.

528
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: He ever worked in a shoe factory, and so that

529
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 1: was pretty full time for him. And he didn't have

530
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 1: the finances or the time to be able to taking

531
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: all these wild coon hunts and stuff like that. But

532
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: he he's figured that he could make enough money to

533
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: pay me something and give me room and board, and

534
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: I'd stay there and I'd take his dog to these

535
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: to these con huts. And but I I wasn't. I didn't.

536
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: I didn't want to do it. I just wasn't cut

537
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: out for that. Uh. And I love these mountains here

538
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: and there of course paregold Organsas just out on the

539
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 1: flat lands. And but I did learn this. He had

540
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:14,280
Speaker 1: awfully good dogs, and he really did, There's no doubt

541
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,399
Speaker 1: about that. And while I was there, I was able

542
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 1: to pick up a puff from him, which was not

543
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 1: easy to do um at the time. And I called

544
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: him Sailor, And Sailor was was out of a female

545
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 1: that he called Lula the second. And I did learn

546
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: at that time from the Elbert that of his blue ticks,

547
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 1: which he had a number of different families of them,

548
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: that those that have that came out of the the

549
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 1: stock of dogs who was sired by a dog called

550
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 1: Floridy Curly, which was owned by a guy named Jake

551
00:34:54,600 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 1: Size and Coffeeville, Mississippi. Um, he got a dog dog

552
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 1: named Curly, and out of that and from there he

553
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: got a female called Lula. And and I learned that

554
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 1: anything that came out of Lula was going to be

555
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:17,320
Speaker 1: pretty hard to beat, especially if it came to speed.

556
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 1: And I took, of course, Sailor. He was out a

557
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 1: little of the second. Elbert also told me that UM

558
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 1: in breeding, his experience would he had a lot of

559
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: it in breeding in families of dogs, he said, to duplicate.

560
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 1: If you're trying to duplicate a dog, he said, the

561
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 1: chances are you'll see the duplication and grandparents before you'll

562
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: see it in the parents two generations now, yes, yes,

563
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,319
Speaker 1: And and I could see that UM sometimes with the

564
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 1: in breeding with these dogs, that the grandchildren would be

565
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: more likely to be like the grandparents. Then the children

566
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: would be by the parent itself. And of course, now

567
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: Lula the second happened to be excuse me. Lula was

568
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 1: Sailor's grandmother. And as time went by, Sailor kept getting

569
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:26,399
Speaker 1: better and better and better, and finally he passed up Bow.

570
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: Of course, Boat had a few years on. He was

571
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: getting a little old, but he still did. Sata was

572
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 1: getting faster and faster and faster, and he died at

573
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 1: the age of seven and a half. Um through heartworm

574
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 1: treatment is what took him out. In this part of

575
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 1: the world, it seemed like with the guys that had

576
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 1: dogs that could catch bobcats regularly or foxes, it usually

577
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 1: would take half an hour to get him to go

578
00:36:55,320 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 1: up a tree anyways, under good trailing conditions. When Saylor

579
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 1: got to Worry was about five years old, I was

580
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 1: done with the bobcat hunting because I was I was

581
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,760
Speaker 1: full time guiding then and it was just lions and bears,

582
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: and I didn't have a need or and interest for

583
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 1: chasing bobcats. But I would still have to hunt the

584
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 1: dogs loose to um to hunt to find lions because

585
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: or bears because we didn't have snow over conditions to

586
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 1: find tracks that way, and and they get on a bobcat. Well,

587
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,760
Speaker 1: I didn't want dogs out there wearing themselves out. Jason

588
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 1: a bobcat when I'm out there trying to find a

589
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 1: lion um and come to find out these thirty minutes

590
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:47,800
Speaker 1: forty five minute bobcat chases started getting shorter and shorter

591
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:54,959
Speaker 1: and shorter. And the last two years of that dog's life, UM,

592
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 1: he would catch thirty five forty bobcats a year. I

593
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 1: don't remember. I didn't keep track to the foxes. But um,

594
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 1: if any bob jacket still on the ground three minutes,

595
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 1: he was on the ground a long time after he

596
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: jumped it, and most of them would be within a minute,

597
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: two minute and a half. And that you know, and

598
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 1: I'm not bragging, I'm just thinking facts, dot is how

599
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 1: fast that dog? And that was that you got? Yes?

600
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 1: And then I ended up with the um a granddaughter

601
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 1: of sailors who was killed at a very young age,

602
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 1: UM accidental death. And this was in Montana, and it

603
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: appeared as though that she had that speed as well,

604
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 1: that most dogs wouldn't have. I just I couldn't. I

605
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 1: just couldn't find anybody that or hunted with anybody that

606
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: had dogs you could run that fast. It just it

607
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: was just everything was a one dog grace once it

608
00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 1: was jumped. But anyways, from there, UM, I stayed in

609
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 1: California until we got drun out of here. UM let me,

610
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 1: can I back up a little bit. So what year

611
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 1: so you got interested in hounds, you got a good hound,

612
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 1: started treeting some bobcats and foxes when you were by

613
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 1: this time your mid twenties. And then when did you

614
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,359
Speaker 1: start outfitting for Barren Line? Because that's what the that's

615
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 1: what the book is primarily about. It's talking about your

616
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: years as an outfitter. Yes, I started, Okay, I started advertising.

617
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 1: I'd hurt my back really bad in framing houses, and

618
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 1: I I just couldn't um, I couldn't keep doing it,

619
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 1: So I left Ventura and I moved to this area

620
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:47,720
Speaker 1: where we're out here. That was in um nineteen sixties six.

621
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 1: When I moved here. I've been keep in mind, have

622
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 1: been hunting it for about three or four years, traveling

623
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 1: back and forth. But I moved here full time. Started

624
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 1: running some ads in the magazine, uh like Outdoor Life magazine,

625
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 1: and I was I was so poor. I was poor

626
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,359
Speaker 1: as a church mouse, as a sayings go, you know,

627
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 1: and uh living in the back of my truck at

628
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 1: the same time. But I anyways, I uh renting an

629
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 1: old shock, moved into that started advertising, and uh, I

630
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 1: started getting some customers. And you said a little bit

631
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 1: of add in the Outdoor Life, said Barren Mountain Lion.

632
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 1: The hounds in California fifty dollars a month, fifty dollars

633
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 1: a month from one tall and inch to add and

634
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 1: I wish it was just it was. It was just

635
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,359
Speaker 1: about broke me to have to pay that advertisements, you know,

636
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 1: but you paid or you didn't get any any others.

637
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: And it started to grow from there, you know, and

638
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 1: then I ended up having a U. I guess people

639
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 1: started knowing a little bit a bit about me being there,

640
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 1: and uh, I knew this guy lived up at Sugar

641
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,879
Speaker 1: Low Village and he said that he knew a guy

642
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 1: that worked for the La Times, and he talked to

643
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: him about what I was doing, and they wanted to

644
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 1: know if they could come up here and I'd take

645
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:18,959
Speaker 1: him lying under they run an article in the Los

646
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:23,800
Speaker 1: Angeles Times, so you know, I said, well, yeah, okay,

647
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 1: let's do it. And this was obviously time was a

648
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 1: little more favorable to hunt lions in California, was what.

649
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 1: It was a little more favorable back then the bounty

650
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 1: had the bounty had been taken off, that was in

651
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 1: and I wasn't against them taking that bounty off. I

652
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 1: didn't think they needed to do anything like that. Um,

653
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 1: and the lion population, according to bounties, numbers of bounties

654
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: annually had dropped significantly. UM. You know, because it's like

655
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 1: there were years that they bounty four hundred lions in

656
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 1: a year and now they were down to like a

657
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 1: hundred lines a year. That's for the entire state. So

658
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 1: they really didn't need to be paying people to do this.

659
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 1: There's guys are gonna do it. Anyways, he's doing it

660
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 1: for fun. So anyways, these guys came up, the guy

661
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 1: named Dewey Lindsay, and with him was this photographer that

662
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,800
Speaker 1: worked for the He's a freelance photographer and he worked

663
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 1: for UH basically worked for a national geographic And here

664
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:30,799
Speaker 1: I am twenty five years old with about three three

665
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 1: hound dogs and UH I got these high powered professionals

666
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 1: from Los Angeles come up here. I want me to

667
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 1: catch a line. They said, I only got three days

668
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 1: to do it. In Well, the pressure was really on

669
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 1: because trying to trying to you know, there's one thing

670
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,799
Speaker 1: to catch a lion. Were you just out there hunting

671
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 1: and you run into him and you catch him as

672
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:57,359
Speaker 1: a as they become available. But if you're gonna do

673
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: this as as a profession, and you've got people coming

674
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 1: in and you're gonna you're on a no catch, no pay,

675
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 1: which I was that those days. No catch, no no catch,

676
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 1: no pay you. If you didn't catch you, you didn't

677
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 1: get paid anything. Was that common back then or is

678
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 1: that just something that you wanted to know? No, that

679
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 1: was calmon. That was the way it was everywhere, Um,

680
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 1: all of them through the Mountain States. Everybody, no catch,

681
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 1: no pay. You had to show for these people around

682
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 1: and pay for their food and sometimes drive a couple

683
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 1: hundred miles each way to an airport to pick them

684
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 1: up and take them back. And uh, if you didn't

685
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 1: catch them a line, you didn't get paid anything. So

686
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: the business, the pressure was on, you know, and uh

687
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 1: made for some good outfitters, didn't it. It separated him,

688
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:50,319
Speaker 1: It truly did. And I caught him a lion on

689
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 1: the on the third day. And you're just dry ground

690
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:57,760
Speaker 1: line hunting. So you're just roaming around freecasting the dogs.

691
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: At that I didn't know. I wasn't using horse. What

692
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 1: what I would have to do is I just had

693
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,800
Speaker 1: to go places where I knew that lions would frequent

694
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 1: and and you know they're they're kind of a a

695
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 1: strange animal in that, Um do you find lions that

696
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 1: would cert use certain areas and airs close by? They

697
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 1: wouldn't even go and bother over there. And um, so

698
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 1: I would go to these places where I knew that

699
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 1: it either caught lions already or I had seen lions.

700
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:33,839
Speaker 1: I was really looking for some place where I could

701
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 1: find a lion track, knowing that I hadn't already caught

702
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:40,720
Speaker 1: the thing. And uh so, anyways, we ended up catching

703
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 1: the line and they they ran this story in the

704
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 1: what's we called West magazine to the Los Angeles Time,

705
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: it's a weekend magazine. Through that ad it it generated

706
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 1: quite a bit of business for me. And uh next

707
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 1: thing I knew I was, I was so so dull

708
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: gone for me, hurting for money so bad that I'd

709
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 1: coast home. I'd find when I'd be driving home, I

710
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 1: turned the motor off so I didn't burn the gas

711
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 1: going downhill. It And the next thing I knew that

712
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 1: I could leave the motor running and you were kept

713
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: some may lines. You could leave the motor running when

714
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:20,279
Speaker 1: you go down the hill. Yeah, yeah, I was really

715
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 1: getting rich. You know, I'd like to say this too,

716
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:30,440
Speaker 1: that that was during the years that I did all this. Um,

717
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 1: I wouldn't trade the memories of that for anything at all.

718
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:36,399
Speaker 1: I mean, it was just something that was just really

719
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:41,839
Speaker 1: important to me, and I've cherished those memories. But I'll

720
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 1: tell you what, I was so poor. It took every

721
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:51,719
Speaker 1: penny that I made to feed those dogs, buy new

722
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:54,919
Speaker 1: ones if I needed to buy a dog. UM pay

723
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 1: for gas. Trucks didn't last very long in those days. Uh,

724
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 1: seven many thousand miles on a truck that I was

725
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 1: driving news By one brand new, and then seventy thousand

726
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 1: miles later it was pretty rough shape. So so anyways,

727
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 1: from from there, UM, I stayed in California, UM doing

728
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:19,319
Speaker 1: the line in the bearing and I took the I

729
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:22,799
Speaker 1: started hunting bears in northern California. I'd run into a

730
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:27,399
Speaker 1: guy and his two boys one day on a dead

731
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 1: end road down here, this is in Current County. I

732
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 1: just called a lion and as a young guy with me.

733
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:36,760
Speaker 1: His name is Roy Stevenson. He's still a good friend,

734
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 1: and he retired out of Current County Fire Department, and

735
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 1: uh he was with me. He was it's on his

736
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 1: sixteenth birthday. He told me. He says, he wanted to

737
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: go go hunting and see if maybe we catch a

738
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 1: line together. And it was it was December, I think,

739
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 1: and we caught this line, but we got a flat

740
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:06,720
Speaker 1: tire in the process of trying to stay with the dogs,

741
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 1: and uh, we were just about ready to leave, and

742
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 1: we're right at the end of the dead end road anyways,

743
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 1: at the end of the road, couldn't be five feet

744
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 1: away from us, and uh, I looked down the road

745
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:20,280
Speaker 1: and there's these two boys down there with four hound

746
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:24,279
Speaker 1: dogs and asked Roy Stevenson. I said, do you know

747
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 1: I know those kids? He says, I've never seen him

748
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 1: in my life, and uh there was a friendship that

749
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:33,880
Speaker 1: is still going on today. The two boys is Bobby

750
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 1: Bridges and Gary Bridges. They lived in by Reading and

751
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 1: their father Jim Bridges, who has now passed on. We

752
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 1: hit it off really well, and uh so the next

753
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 1: thing I knew, I was up there taking bare hunts

754
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:49,320
Speaker 1: and Shasta County and Jim Bridges was giving me a

755
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,799
Speaker 1: hand at it. And I ended up buying three of

756
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,400
Speaker 1: those dogs that we're standing at the end of the

757
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 1: road that day from Jim, and all of them one

758
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:05,239
Speaker 1: full dogs outstanding dogs. Um to say the least I

759
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 1: would say, to say they were good dogs wasn't really

760
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 1: much of a compliment. Um, there were acceptionally good dogs.

761
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 1: And so like I said, Jim, of course he's he

762
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,400
Speaker 1: passed on. Unfortunately they were They were all Timber followers.

763
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 1: Jim was one of the actually one of the finest

764
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:26,240
Speaker 1: men that I think I've ever known in my life.

765
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 1: You could believe anything he said, and you can't find

766
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,880
Speaker 1: any of him that you can do that with. And

767
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 1: if he said a dog was was a good dog,

768
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 1: it was a good dog, and it was a good

769
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 1: dog by his standards. And his standards were quite a

770
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 1: bit above when a lot of guys standards for good

771
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 1: dogs were. UM. But it was just a wonderful friendship

772
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 1: that developed. And the and the Bears UM at that

773
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:58,399
Speaker 1: time in these Green Arm Mountains, which is where we're at,

774
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 1: the Bear Pole place, was was very poor and necessary.

775
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 1: They had had a from what I understand, they had

776
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:10,399
Speaker 1: had had a drought, a severe drought in the late

777
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:16,359
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties. And they said that the Bears went clear

778
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 1: to the San Joaquin Valley in those years. And in

779
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:24,839
Speaker 1: those years they were using the poison called ten eight

780
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 1: to kill ground squirrels and everything else. And ten eight

781
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 1: is a kind of a poison that if a ground

782
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 1: squirrel eats it, and something comes along and eats the

783
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 1: ground squirrel, it's gonna kill that thing too. And I

784
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 1: kind of think that between the drought and the widespread

785
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:50,400
Speaker 1: poisoning ground squirrels in these mountains that had just about

786
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 1: wiped the bear population out for a long, long ways away.

787
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 1: And it wasn't until about nineteen sixty eight, which would

788
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 1: be about ten years after that drought that we started

789
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:06,719
Speaker 1: finding that was super good. How long did you? Just

790
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 1: to give an overview, so you started you started guiding

791
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:14,840
Speaker 1: in what year and ended in what year? Okay, I

792
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:20,319
Speaker 1: started guiding in nineteen sixties six, late nineteen seventies. I

793
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 1: quit guiding. I didn't quit hunting. I quit guiding. Yeah,

794
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 1: and um, I was in Montana when I quit. So

795
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:32,719
Speaker 1: you guided for about fifteen years or so? Close to it? Yeah, yeah,

796
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 1: close to it. I know in your book you talk

797
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 1: about you talk about and this is one thing that

798
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:42,840
Speaker 1: intrigued me, was you hunted on horseback a lot? Um?

799
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 1: Was that one of your favorite ways to hunt ed

800
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 1: was hunting on horseback with the dogs free range and out.

801
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 1: I did enjoy that. It was, you know, the easiest

802
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 1: way to hunt dogs, just to turn the dogs loose

803
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:57,239
Speaker 1: and let him run down the road in front of

804
00:50:57,239 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 1: a pickout and the fallen in a truck, which is

805
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 1: very and then in common today, but in lion hunting

806
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 1: sometimes with what I was doing, see how I couldn't

807
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 1: catch lines that just my leisure. It didn't make any difference.

808
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 1: If I was out there and called a line, I

809
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:21,880
Speaker 1: didn't have any anyone with me. I didn't do me

810
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:24,360
Speaker 1: any good. I didn't get paid anything, and I was

811
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 1: full time doing this, so I needed a paying customer

812
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 1: to be with me, and a paying customer had to

813
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 1: be there when I caught it. I mean I could

814
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 1: catch I could catch the line the day after the

815
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 1: guy left, and it didn't do me any good because

816
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:41,400
Speaker 1: he left and neither took his money with him when

817
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,319
Speaker 1: he was when he left. You know. So during those

818
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 1: years I had to go wherever the lions were at,

819
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 1: and and it's like most of the hunts were like

820
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:55,279
Speaker 1: one week hunts, and during that week period of time,

821
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 1: I had to come up with the lion. And if

822
00:51:57,719 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 1: I didn't come with the lion. I just got to

823
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 1: I got to pay the bill all by myself, you know,

824
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 1: And that did happen very often? Did you catch? Most

825
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:08,840
Speaker 1: most people live? You know, I was running of I

826
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 1: thought a pretty high percentage, and I'm talking, I'm you know,

827
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:19,280
Speaker 1: I've I hear guys give their their percentages, and sometimes

828
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:25,720
Speaker 1: you you have to question whether there's any truth to that, um,

829
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 1: because of weather conditions and things that can happen to

830
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 1: you while you're hunting. But on the both the line,

831
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:35,479
Speaker 1: the both line and barrens, I was hitting pretty close

832
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 1: to UM, which meant you if you had if you

833
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:44,200
Speaker 1: had a guy on a line hunt and you're gonna

834
00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 1: he's gonna give you five days or like in this

835
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:52,479
Speaker 1: case with the newspaper, they gave three. Um, you didn't

836
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 1: get much time to do that. So you better know

837
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 1: where there's one at. And so to do that, I

838
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 1: had to stay active, actively king, even if I had

839
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:07,280
Speaker 1: nobody with me. Well here comes the horse now, okay.

840
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:10,240
Speaker 1: I drive Rhodes. I look for tracks alongside the rose

841
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: walks some trails, but you can only walk so far. UM.

842
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:17,720
Speaker 1: Then there's other areas that you know that are pretty

843
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:21,319
Speaker 1: decent for having lions in them. Um, But it didn't

844
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:22,799
Speaker 1: do you any good to go way back in the

845
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 1: back country. If you're gonna take what we used to

846
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:28,759
Speaker 1: call them dudes, take them in there to go catch

847
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:31,279
Speaker 1: a lion, because you had to get them in there too,

848
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 1: you know. So so I would take an i'de use

849
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 1: the horse to scout to constantly look see if I

850
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:40,400
Speaker 1: could find a line if I caught him, and make

851
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:43,640
Speaker 1: sure I let him go, um, but try and keep

852
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:46,760
Speaker 1: tract of it so that you could hopefully find it again,

853
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 1: which wasn't all that often. I seemed like I'd guessed lines,

854
00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 1: let them go, and I never even see their tracks again.

855
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 1: They're just gone. You know, I don't know what you weren't.

856
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:02,719
Speaker 1: I guess that's obvious. You couldn't use the horse when

857
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 1: you had clients with you, So you were using that

858
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 1: horse to be mobile to find lions for when people

859
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:13,880
Speaker 1: came in. Basically, yes, but I did use them on occasion, um.

860
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 1: If as an example, Um, there's a place that I

861
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:21,080
Speaker 1: used the horse every time I went there, and that

862
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 1: was up out of a place called Johnsondale. There's a

863
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:28,319
Speaker 1: trail they're called a rent contrail. It was very good

864
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:32,719
Speaker 1: for having lions in it, but the Forest Service would

865
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:35,719
Speaker 1: lock the road getting to it, which meant that you

866
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 1: had a two and a half miles behind a locked

867
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:41,360
Speaker 1: gate before you could get to the rent Cotton trail

868
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:44,440
Speaker 1: and it was all up hill get into it, you know.

869
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 1: So so you had to use horses to do that,

870
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:49,880
Speaker 1: and I did. I did use horses to take guys

871
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:55,600
Speaker 1: in there, and it was almost always you could find

872
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:58,760
Speaker 1: you could find something going on in there, lines, hanging

873
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:04,719
Speaker 1: out in some place in that you know. Um, But anyways, um,

874
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 1: how many did I catch is compared to driving roads?

875
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:13,759
Speaker 1: I caught more driving roads mm hmm, just because you

876
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:16,439
Speaker 1: can travel fast, just it's an efficient way to hunt.

877
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 1: It is you can travel much fatter. You're looking for

878
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 1: an actual track, dirt track in the road, that's right,

879
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 1: Dusty Rhodes. You try and find these roads of where

880
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 1: the roads are just powder on them, you know, And

881
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 1: did you get where? You were really good at seeing

882
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:33,320
Speaker 1: a track? I mean, I know what I'm hunted with

883
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:38,320
Speaker 1: these guys out in Tennessee that that are there looking

884
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:42,760
Speaker 1: for tracks crossing gravel roads and places where bears skid

885
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:45,759
Speaker 1: down banks, you know, and leaves and they can see

886
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:48,439
Speaker 1: things a lot of people wouldn't see. They're they're really

887
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:54,239
Speaker 1: trained to see like that. Yes, yeah, it's like I

888
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:57,279
Speaker 1: used to tell people. I said, you know, I could

889
00:55:57,320 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 1: walk right through her or deer not even see any

890
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 1: of them because I can't I see their track, but

891
00:56:02,719 --> 00:56:06,440
Speaker 1: I can't look up because I'm just looking down so

892
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:10,360
Speaker 1: much that I just automatically look at the ground. You

893
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:12,879
Speaker 1: see what's in the And you still find yourself doing

894
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:17,640
Speaker 1: that today when you're out. I do theund right here

895
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 1: on our property. But do I'm just looking at the

896
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 1: ground see with the what kind of tracks? Any tricks

897
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:25,840
Speaker 1: for finding line tracks with your eyes? I mean anything

898
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:29,520
Speaker 1: you look for did they cross and I'm sure they

899
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:32,400
Speaker 1: crossed in certain places or is it just totally arbitrary

900
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:39,719
Speaker 1: where they cross? You know what lions um they They

901
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 1: seemed to use trails. They're obvious to you. You get

902
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 1: to the point to where you could you could you

903
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:52,279
Speaker 1: find a line track. You're walking up a canyon, you

904
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:54,440
Speaker 1: find a lion track and just go in a certain direction.

905
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 1: You look off in the in the distance. You can

906
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:01,759
Speaker 1: just about say if this line has gone that far

907
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:06,759
Speaker 1: whatever that is a mild or whatever it is. The

908
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:10,520
Speaker 1: chants is are he went right through there and and

909
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 1: you almost you can predict where he was. Yes, you

910
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 1: almost always right, just just by trailing so many of them,

911
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:22,400
Speaker 1: you know? And would you so you you outfitted for

912
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:26,440
Speaker 1: line and bear? What was your favorite? What was your

913
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 1: favorite to chase with your hounds? I love chasing bears.

914
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 1: Did you more than lions? Oh? That's hard to say. Um,

915
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what I liked about about the lion hunt.

916
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 1: I really did enjoy catching a lion where the dogs

917
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:52,240
Speaker 1: would start with a track that was almost nothing where

918
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 1: they doubt they and you have to have dogs that

919
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:58,959
Speaker 1: had good cold noses to where they've done. You find

920
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 1: a line track in the dirt and you point at

921
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:04,360
Speaker 1: it and they stick the nose down there. They couldn't

922
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 1: smell it, but they they knew you were pointing something

923
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:11,320
Speaker 1: out and they started looking and they find a twig

924
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 1: that had touched that animals side, and they could smell

925
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:19,080
Speaker 1: it on that twig and they'd bark. And you look

926
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:21,640
Speaker 1: at the ground where they're at, and there's that lion's

927
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:27,880
Speaker 1: track m hm. And you start from that, and maybe

928
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 1: ten miles later you're looking at the lion. That to

929
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:38,400
Speaker 1: me made it all worthwhile. That was that was hunting dogs.

930
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 1: That's not that wasn't hunting lions. That was taking dogs

931
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:46,160
Speaker 1: and seeing them at their very finest, and I just

932
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 1: love that. Um. I know, there's lots of lines that

933
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 1: I'd caught people that I had taken in the past.

934
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:56,760
Speaker 1: After writing this book, they'd asked me about it, and

935
00:58:56,840 --> 00:58:59,919
Speaker 1: I forgot all about it because they were they were, well,

936
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:03,000
Speaker 1: we call it pop ups. You know. You you cut

937
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 1: the track and it was fresh, the line wasn't very

938
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:07,720
Speaker 1: far away with you, So that was the easy one.

939
00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:09,760
Speaker 1: Those are these just pop ups. You know, you forget

940
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 1: about them. But those ones that where you get out

941
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:15,440
Speaker 1: out to those things. Then you go all day long

942
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:19,960
Speaker 1: just working, sometimes in the summertime where the dogs just

943
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:23,400
Speaker 1: just taking both of you. You gotta find the track

944
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 1: to help the dog and the dog and take the

945
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 1: track a little ways where you couldn't find it, and

946
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:30,080
Speaker 1: next thing you know, they turned that thing into a

947
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:37,480
Speaker 1: movable track, and like save later you're looking at it.

948
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:42,400
Speaker 1: One thing that you did, and this I noticed inside

949
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:47,680
Speaker 1: the book, was you did some incredible athletic feats. In

950
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:51,480
Speaker 1: my mind following these dogs. I mean, we we talked

951
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:55,800
Speaker 1: earlier at the beginning of the podcast about a hunt

952
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:59,040
Speaker 1: where you probably went twenty five miles by foot in

953
00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:03,320
Speaker 1: a single day in these mountains. I mean, were you

954
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 1: a exceptional I mean what what? Were you a really

955
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:11,840
Speaker 1: great athlete? And no, as a matter of fact, is

956
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:17,400
Speaker 1: as an infant, I had to birken Elisis and they've

957
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:22,400
Speaker 1: figured that I would um never be able to do

958
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:26,320
Speaker 1: anything athleticalized. But then i'd also it learned that your

959
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:30,840
Speaker 1: lungs can repair, and apparently mine did. And you know

960
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:37,280
Speaker 1: I would go places that following a hound dog. I

961
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:41,440
Speaker 1: wouldn't even think of going there. But it was because

962
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:46,959
Speaker 1: the dogs and I were doing this together. This wasn't

963
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:54,000
Speaker 1: a situation where let me put it like this, for

964
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:56,080
Speaker 1: the numbers of lines that I caught, I left a

965
01:00:56,080 --> 01:00:58,720
Speaker 1: lot of Let a lot of them go, just let

966
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:01,640
Speaker 1: them go. Same with bearn I let hundreds of bears go.

967
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:05,320
Speaker 1: I mean hundreds. I don't mean one hundred, I don't

968
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:10,000
Speaker 1: mean two hundred. I mean maybe like three hundred treed bears.

969
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 1: Just let them go. One day. We caught five bears

970
01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:16,400
Speaker 1: one day in Montana, which is against a lot of

971
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 1: chase a bear in Montana, but we did it. Anyways,

972
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:24,320
Speaker 1: and we caught five bears, separate bears, not traveling together,

973
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:28,040
Speaker 1: no cubs, let every single one of them go. Um.

974
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:32,760
Speaker 1: It was all about dog hunting. But in order for

975
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:35,640
Speaker 1: me to do this with these dogs, I had to

976
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:38,520
Speaker 1: take people along that would pay me to do it,

977
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:41,240
Speaker 1: and to do that, they had to shoot it. So

978
01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 1: so we did that. But anyways, I've lost my train

979
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:48,840
Speaker 1: of thought. What was your question? And just being an

980
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:51,000
Speaker 1: athletic feat to do what you did, and you had

981
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:58,120
Speaker 1: tuberculosis as a kid. I did. Now there's a lot

982
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:01,560
Speaker 1: of times, you know, I keep telling myself, no pain,

983
01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:06,560
Speaker 1: no gain, you know. And but if I if I

984
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:09,800
Speaker 1: could hear those dogs, I'm going to him. And there

985
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:13,520
Speaker 1: was one time in my entire career that my dogs

986
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:16,720
Speaker 1: treat a bear and I didn't go to him. I

987
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:19,720
Speaker 1: started to go to him, but had two guys with me.

988
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:23,120
Speaker 1: This is up in Shasta County, and they treat a

989
01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:25,160
Speaker 1: bear in his place called hell Soul. That's with the

990
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:28,840
Speaker 1: name of that canyon. M And that canyon is so

991
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:32,920
Speaker 1: steep that you had to hang on to stuff as

992
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:36,600
Speaker 1: you're going downhill, otherwise you're gonna just start sliding and

993
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 1: you go all the way to the bottom. M hm.

994
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:44,800
Speaker 1: And from where the where we started the bear they

995
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:47,840
Speaker 1: dropped off into canyon is about feet in elevation to

996
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:54,600
Speaker 1: the bottom of straight down and treated about a thousand

997
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:57,600
Speaker 1: feet up the other side. And we started going down

998
01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:00,560
Speaker 1: to these dogs, and I had two guys with me.

999
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:03,880
Speaker 1: One of them is really heavy set, and I knew

1000
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:07,680
Speaker 1: that he was never gonna get there, and I really

1001
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:10,960
Speaker 1: wasn't too happy about going there anyways myself. But the

1002
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:13,280
Speaker 1: dogs were just blowing the top out of this tree

1003
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:17,520
Speaker 1: and across the canyon from where we were standing to

1004
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 1: where those dogs are actually try and we could not

1005
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:25,240
Speaker 1: have been a thousand feet through the air apart from

1006
01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:27,760
Speaker 1: each other. But at the same time, we were about

1007
01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:33,280
Speaker 1: a thousand feet in the elevation down and another thousand

1008
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:37,000
Speaker 1: feet in elevation back up. And uh So I asked

1009
01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:40,800
Speaker 1: these guys, I said, done, what's gonna happen. If we

1010
01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:44,480
Speaker 1: get to the bottom, you're gonna be able to get

1011
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:47,000
Speaker 1: back to the up to this top, because if you can't,

1012
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:49,800
Speaker 1: there's no sense going down there. And they told me,

1013
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:54,600
Speaker 1: they says, we'll never make it. So I started yelling

1014
01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:57,960
Speaker 1: and if fired more rifle a couple of times, and

1015
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 1: it's really surprised me. I remember how many dogs I had,

1016
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:05,000
Speaker 1: and it probably I usually I usually had about four.

1017
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:08,880
Speaker 1: I like to during the embarrass season, I like to

1018
01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:13,480
Speaker 1: have no less than three, and usually about four. I'd rotate.

1019
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:16,919
Speaker 1: The dog could catch dogs. You can catch bears with three,

1020
01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:23,320
Speaker 1: four or five hounds. Yes, um, I'll tell you a

1021
01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:26,880
Speaker 1: little about my philosophy on that, and which was the

1022
01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:33,080
Speaker 1: same as some few other guys. Um. But anyways, the

1023
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:38,560
Speaker 1: dogs came to me, and I was totally shocked that they.

1024
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:42,520
Speaker 1: Quentin came across that cannon. But as we got out

1025
01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:45,760
Speaker 1: of there, you know, and it comes to numbers of dogs.

1026
01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:52,120
Speaker 1: Willis Betof he's alliant. He was a guy she's went

1027
01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:54,600
Speaker 1: to gut. He was a government hunter, but he also

1028
01:04:54,640 --> 01:04:59,800
Speaker 1: guided people as well, and he he trapped for coyotes.

1029
01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:06,560
Speaker 1: He uses dogs for lions and bears. Stop killing lions

1030
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:11,480
Speaker 1: and bears. And he told me early on, he said,

1031
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:13,760
Speaker 1: if you have three or four dogs that can't catch

1032
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:18,439
Speaker 1: a bear, you don't need more, you need new ones.

1033
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:23,840
Speaker 1: And I found that to be true. If you got

1034
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:29,080
Speaker 1: four dogs and they can't catch bears, you better start

1035
01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:33,440
Speaker 1: looking for new dogs or help for some of them.

1036
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:35,840
Speaker 1: You might have a You know, now when I say

1037
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:38,560
Speaker 1: three or four dogs, yeah, three or four. If you've

1038
01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:40,240
Speaker 1: got three or four dogs and they can't, you need

1039
01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:44,280
Speaker 1: new ones. I'm talking about three or four dogs where

1040
01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:48,720
Speaker 1: all three or four of them are bear dogs. Where

1041
01:05:48,720 --> 01:05:50,800
Speaker 1: you've got one dog. There's a lot of guys got that.

1042
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:53,920
Speaker 1: They have one dog that's good, and then then the

1043
01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:55,360
Speaker 1: rest of them is just a bunch of dogs are

1044
01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:58,000
Speaker 1: just following, you know, and they catch the easy ones.

1045
01:05:58,560 --> 01:06:00,800
Speaker 1: But whenever they get up to add when pretty soon

1046
01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:05,240
Speaker 1: they get started strung out. And um, you hear one

1047
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:09,480
Speaker 1: dog he falling behind, another one's falling behind. And then

1048
01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:11,360
Speaker 1: after a little while you hear this one dog all

1049
01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:16,160
Speaker 1: by himself, and he, yes he is. He's the guy

1050
01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:19,000
Speaker 1: doing all the work. Well that's where you need to

1051
01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:23,000
Speaker 1: keep him. And started looking for replacements for the other ones.

1052
01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:26,680
Speaker 1: But you don't good bear dogs. You can do the job,

1053
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:30,320
Speaker 1: you know. Um, And but they don't all make good

1054
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:32,920
Speaker 1: bear dogs, you know. When you're talking about these guys,

1055
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:40,680
Speaker 1: like you said in Tennessee on these gravel roads. Um,

1056
01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:44,920
Speaker 1: there's a there's a method that is very popular today.

1057
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:47,800
Speaker 1: Sata was the very first dog that I had that

1058
01:06:47,880 --> 01:06:50,080
Speaker 1: would do this and that's strack a bear out of

1059
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:54,360
Speaker 1: the back of a truck. Yeah. Yeah, And and and

1060
01:06:54,440 --> 01:06:59,720
Speaker 1: Saylor would when he started doing that. The hound hunters

1061
01:06:59,720 --> 01:07:02,840
Speaker 1: in this part of the world, they didn't believe it.

1062
01:07:03,160 --> 01:07:06,800
Speaker 1: They they didn't believe that dog could do that. And um,

1063
01:07:06,840 --> 01:07:09,520
Speaker 1: but he did. And and then Bo was doing it

1064
01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:15,040
Speaker 1: as well. Um. But they strike a bear track that

1065
01:07:15,160 --> 01:07:17,320
Speaker 1: the bear hadn't even crossed the road, but the track

1066
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:20,600
Speaker 1: would be maybe five ft away from the road, you know.

1067
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:23,320
Speaker 1: But they and and they strike the thing and then

1068
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:26,480
Speaker 1: you let him go and they didn't up catching the bear. Yeah.

1069
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:31,800
Speaker 1: But prior to those years, Um, there was a guy

1070
01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:34,320
Speaker 1: up in Washington State by the name of d. Moss.

1071
01:07:35,640 --> 01:07:37,600
Speaker 1: I think his first name was d. He had plots,

1072
01:07:37,640 --> 01:07:43,760
Speaker 1: all plots and he worked for Zayrah called Simpson Timber Company.

1073
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:49,280
Speaker 1: Was Simpson at the in those years, they had professional

1074
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:53,880
Speaker 1: bear hunters killing bears on Simpson ground. What they were

1075
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:56,280
Speaker 1: doing and what the bears would do, they would don

1076
01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:01,400
Speaker 1: the Douglas fir trees. They would they would um strip

1077
01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:04,120
Speaker 1: the bark off of them to go for the cambium

1078
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:07,480
Speaker 1: layer of the trying they kill the trees. So Simpson,

1079
01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:10,440
Speaker 1: Simpson Timber Company, their solution must kill all the bears.

1080
01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:15,120
Speaker 1: And D. D. Moss was one of those guys. And

1081
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:17,720
Speaker 1: and I had heard that he had dogs. They would

1082
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:19,479
Speaker 1: strike a bear off the box, you know, they put

1083
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:21,519
Speaker 1: them on the box, you know, and drive the roads

1084
01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:26,720
Speaker 1: and they start them like that. And believe me, that's

1085
01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:30,000
Speaker 1: a whole lot simpler than taking it. That was new

1086
01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:33,880
Speaker 1: technology back in the day. Yeah. Now that's that's like,

1087
01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:36,120
Speaker 1: that's the way most a lot of these guys hunt.

1088
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:38,880
Speaker 1: I even I've even been told that you guys got

1089
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:42,679
Speaker 1: dogs will strike lines that way. They'll strike line tracks

1090
01:08:42,680 --> 01:08:45,160
Speaker 1: off the truck. You know, dogs that they learn how

1091
01:08:45,160 --> 01:08:49,960
Speaker 1: to do it. And they're good smart dogs, you know.

1092
01:08:50,360 --> 01:08:52,639
Speaker 1: And and they'll they'll pick up on that. They started

1093
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:54,040
Speaker 1: learning on their own how to do it, you know.

1094
01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:56,680
Speaker 1: But in the back, in the back then, you know,

1095
01:08:56,720 --> 01:09:01,639
Speaker 1: in the earlier years, prior to the sixties, I'd say,

1096
01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:05,560
Speaker 1: prior to the seventies. Actually, um, nobody's had dogs that

1097
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:09,800
Speaker 1: could do that stuff. Um, except for just a few. Yeah,

1098
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:11,240
Speaker 1: you know, like I said, I had a couple of guys.

1099
01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:13,320
Speaker 1: Probably weren't giving him much of a chance to do it, either,

1100
01:09:13,360 --> 01:09:16,400
Speaker 1: were they. They probably weren't giving him much of a

1101
01:09:16,479 --> 01:09:18,320
Speaker 1: chance to do it. I mean, you know, it's like

1102
01:09:18,360 --> 01:09:22,080
Speaker 1: if you if somebody knows that a dog has that capability,

1103
01:09:22,160 --> 01:09:25,200
Speaker 1: he's probably given it opportunity and paying attention to it

1104
01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:27,479
Speaker 1: when it's on the box. And if you never did

1105
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:30,160
Speaker 1: it before, you just think the dog's barking maybe or right,

1106
01:09:30,280 --> 01:09:33,400
Speaker 1: you know, you just you just didn't know. But yeah,

1107
01:09:33,400 --> 01:09:36,000
Speaker 1: I I caught a line one time, just not too

1108
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:37,720
Speaker 1: far from the Alice where we're at right now that

1109
01:09:38,840 --> 01:09:42,120
Speaker 1: um I mentioned it in this book and all right,

1110
01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:46,240
Speaker 1: um it's on Santa Crete fire Road. And I found

1111
01:09:46,240 --> 01:09:50,760
Speaker 1: the lions track a couple of days before on the

1112
01:09:50,800 --> 01:09:54,160
Speaker 1: far south end of it was about I think that

1113
01:09:54,280 --> 01:09:59,000
Speaker 1: rose like feen miles long, and uh, but it's an

1114
01:09:59,000 --> 01:10:03,280
Speaker 1: old track and I it worked it myself with trying

1115
01:10:03,320 --> 01:10:08,439
Speaker 1: to dogs couldn't smell it, and I got about ten

1116
01:10:08,479 --> 01:10:11,120
Speaker 1: miles of it. And then I so you followed the

1117
01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:15,719
Speaker 1: actual tracks of the lion with yours, and I pointed

1118
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:18,880
Speaker 1: out to the dogs if they could smell it, they bark,

1119
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:21,080
Speaker 1: they try and find it, you know, but you know

1120
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:25,559
Speaker 1: you're taking like some of these dogs. This is I'm

1121
01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:29,000
Speaker 1: being very honest and serious about this. You find a

1122
01:10:29,080 --> 01:10:33,680
Speaker 1: lion track in a dirt road, and the track was

1123
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:37,840
Speaker 1: made when the road was wet in the mud, and

1124
01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:42,439
Speaker 1: it's not wet now it's dry and it's hard, and

1125
01:10:42,479 --> 01:10:44,320
Speaker 1: you've got dogs. You can stick the nose down in

1126
01:10:44,400 --> 01:10:47,640
Speaker 1: that thing and smell that lion's track. They're smelling and

1127
01:10:47,760 --> 01:10:52,439
Speaker 1: responding to attract It is probably four days old, maybe

1128
01:10:52,479 --> 01:10:55,080
Speaker 1: a little older than that. Now they can't trail it

1129
01:10:56,200 --> 01:10:59,040
Speaker 1: much at all. They smell it, they can't trail it,

1130
01:10:59,120 --> 01:11:03,320
Speaker 1: but at least they're identifying it that I know that

1131
01:11:03,400 --> 01:11:06,160
Speaker 1: he was here and you're looking there and you see

1132
01:11:06,200 --> 01:11:08,920
Speaker 1: him with they're barking, and they're sticking their nose down

1133
01:11:08,920 --> 01:11:12,640
Speaker 1: in the dirt track that was mud, that this is

1134
01:11:12,720 --> 01:11:17,280
Speaker 1: now hard solid. So I would take and and and

1135
01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:21,120
Speaker 1: try and work the dogs and and see if we

1136
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:23,959
Speaker 1: can get something out of it. You know. Well, anyways,

1137
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:26,200
Speaker 1: I got to the point that I figured it. I

1138
01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:31,240
Speaker 1: got up here to this um telephone ridge, and uh,

1139
01:11:31,439 --> 01:11:33,400
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, I think I'm pretty caught caught

1140
01:11:33,479 --> 01:11:37,400
Speaker 1: up to that line pretty close, which that's about eight

1141
01:11:37,439 --> 01:11:41,880
Speaker 1: miles I guess from where I first found it. And

1142
01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:44,880
Speaker 1: uh so I got this friend of mine, Joe Bryan,

1143
01:11:45,720 --> 01:11:52,600
Speaker 1: who um he's another fireman, good friend, still friends and

1144
01:11:52,600 --> 01:11:55,920
Speaker 1: and uhh I mentioned Joe in the book Joe Hund'd

1145
01:11:56,160 --> 01:11:59,800
Speaker 1: an awful. I didn't have dogs, a terrific hand or

1146
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:04,200
Speaker 1: a very good hand anything, horses, dogs, it didn't matter.

1147
01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:07,080
Speaker 1: He just tell him to do it, and he would

1148
01:12:07,120 --> 01:12:10,639
Speaker 1: do it, and he would. He's very helpful. And uh

1149
01:12:10,800 --> 01:12:13,760
Speaker 1: I called him over and I said, I think I

1150
01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:17,080
Speaker 1: found this line, and he's up on telephone ridge and

1151
01:12:17,080 --> 01:12:20,200
Speaker 1: I said, if you want to go with me, Uh,

1152
01:12:20,280 --> 01:12:21,519
Speaker 1: I'd like to have you go along. I want to

1153
01:12:21,560 --> 01:12:24,439
Speaker 1: come around from the north side and and drive in

1154
01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:29,040
Speaker 1: to the south and and started looking and that lion

1155
01:12:29,240 --> 01:12:32,720
Speaker 1: apparently met usine the road because you're driving down the

1156
01:12:32,840 --> 01:12:36,240
Speaker 1: road and the dog just exploded in the back of

1157
01:12:36,280 --> 01:12:40,160
Speaker 1: the truck. And uh, this was before I had dogs

1158
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:42,759
Speaker 1: who were striking bears and stuff out of the backs

1159
01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:47,800
Speaker 1: of truck. But they just exploded. And uh the road

1160
01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:50,960
Speaker 1: was hard. You couldn't see tracks of anything. And I said, well,

1161
01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:53,960
Speaker 1: whatever it was, it's fresh. And I know that these

1162
01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:56,760
Speaker 1: dogs in the back, I know what they what they

1163
01:12:56,800 --> 01:13:00,840
Speaker 1: look for when they what they chase, and if whatever

1164
01:13:00,840 --> 01:13:02,559
Speaker 1: it is, it will climb a tree. So let's find

1165
01:13:02,600 --> 01:13:07,120
Speaker 1: out and we dumped the dogs out, and it wasn't

1166
01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:09,439
Speaker 1: any time at all, and they had that line up

1167
01:13:09,479 --> 01:13:12,639
Speaker 1: a tree. You know, you had trailed him with your

1168
01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:16,160
Speaker 1: eyes for eight miles you had, yes, you knew which

1169
01:13:16,200 --> 01:13:18,240
Speaker 1: direction was going. You came in from the other way

1170
01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:22,080
Speaker 1: and just caught him red hot. I'd find his track, yes,

1171
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:25,479
Speaker 1: I'd find his track where it stepped into the road,

1172
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:28,920
Speaker 1: and then he then you'd lose the track. He had

1173
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:32,120
Speaker 1: no idea where it was at. And all you knew

1174
01:13:32,120 --> 01:13:33,719
Speaker 1: is that he either went below the road or above

1175
01:13:33,760 --> 01:13:37,759
Speaker 1: the road. So that from that point i'd take a dog.

1176
01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:41,080
Speaker 1: One dog, just one dog gets gonna be out there

1177
01:13:41,120 --> 01:13:43,920
Speaker 1: with me and and and at that time it's either

1178
01:13:43,920 --> 01:13:46,600
Speaker 1: said or a bow, and both of them is extremely

1179
01:13:46,680 --> 01:13:51,439
Speaker 1: good at coal trailing. And just walk the road. Don't

1180
01:13:51,439 --> 01:13:54,320
Speaker 1: get him excited or anything. Uh, you don't want him

1181
01:13:54,360 --> 01:13:57,800
Speaker 1: casting out going long ways from you. But start walking

1182
01:13:57,840 --> 01:14:02,559
Speaker 1: the road and just looking, and um, you see the

1183
01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:05,320
Speaker 1: dog over there and smelling of a twig, and his

1184
01:14:05,680 --> 01:14:08,880
Speaker 1: tail starts wagging and he's checking it out more, and

1185
01:14:08,920 --> 01:14:13,000
Speaker 1: pretty soon he's running his nose out about a foot

1186
01:14:13,080 --> 01:14:17,360
Speaker 1: or a little more on a twig, smelling to see

1187
01:14:17,360 --> 01:14:20,120
Speaker 1: what he's he's not too sure what he's smelling. Pretty

1188
01:14:20,120 --> 01:14:21,439
Speaker 1: soon they throw their head in the air and they

1189
01:14:21,520 --> 01:14:24,200
Speaker 1: let out a ball, and you know you're you're going

1190
01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:27,160
Speaker 1: the right direction anyways, you know, So from that point

1191
01:14:27,200 --> 01:14:31,760
Speaker 1: you just keep going. And like I said, I was

1192
01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:34,200
Speaker 1: able to do that. This line was I was lucky.

1193
01:14:35,080 --> 01:14:37,800
Speaker 1: The lion was at five thousand foot elevation. That roads

1194
01:14:37,840 --> 01:14:41,040
Speaker 1: at five thousand foot all the way, and it was

1195
01:14:42,160 --> 01:14:47,360
Speaker 1: just traveling heading north at that same elevation, and that

1196
01:14:47,439 --> 01:14:51,000
Speaker 1: road just happened to be there. And so anyways, we

1197
01:14:51,080 --> 01:14:56,400
Speaker 1: ended up catching the thing. Is there any part of

1198
01:14:56,439 --> 01:14:59,920
Speaker 1: the book that you'd like to tell people about? I mean,

1199
01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:02,280
Speaker 1: is there is there was your favorite part of the

1200
01:15:02,280 --> 01:15:06,559
Speaker 1: book for you? That just a story? As we kind

1201
01:15:06,560 --> 01:15:10,599
Speaker 1: of start to wind down here a little bit, well

1202
01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:12,400
Speaker 1: all the stories that I put in there having to

1203
01:15:12,439 --> 01:15:15,840
Speaker 1: be kind of favorite, you know, And I guess the

1204
01:15:15,880 --> 01:15:17,840
Speaker 1: thing for him to do is get a coffee of

1205
01:15:17,840 --> 01:15:19,920
Speaker 1: the book and read the thing you know that will

1206
01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:22,200
Speaker 1: tell But you know, there there is something that I'd

1207
01:15:22,240 --> 01:15:26,479
Speaker 1: like to say that, um, I have a hundred hounds

1208
01:15:26,520 --> 01:15:31,360
Speaker 1: since well I hundred with Jim Bridges one UM one

1209
01:15:31,400 --> 01:15:36,240
Speaker 1: time up in Susanville that we called a baron let

1210
01:15:36,240 --> 01:15:39,479
Speaker 1: it go, of course, and but I didn't. I haven't

1211
01:15:39,520 --> 01:15:44,519
Speaker 1: had hounds since the late nighties. And um, I kind

1212
01:15:44,520 --> 01:15:51,920
Speaker 1: of burned myself out between myself and my dealings with politics,

1213
01:15:53,360 --> 01:15:57,600
Speaker 1: and politics went all the way down into fishing game departments,

1214
01:15:59,080 --> 01:16:04,760
Speaker 1: very political, and in some cases you find yourself on

1215
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:09,880
Speaker 1: the outside of the good old boys club, and which

1216
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:14,120
Speaker 1: is something that unless you're in it, you don't like it.

1217
01:16:14,240 --> 01:16:19,400
Speaker 1: And I want to know part of being in it. Um.

1218
01:16:19,479 --> 01:16:24,200
Speaker 1: I got involved in the Montana fishing game of tagging

1219
01:16:24,240 --> 01:16:28,800
Speaker 1: mountain lions, and myself and a fishing game bologist up

1220
01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:36,639
Speaker 1: there named Jerry Brown, we got together and Jerry made

1221
01:16:36,680 --> 01:16:40,799
Speaker 1: the proposal to the Fishing Game department to start um

1222
01:16:41,000 --> 01:16:45,439
Speaker 1: tagging lions for research. And I was all for that,

1223
01:16:45,600 --> 01:16:53,200
Speaker 1: and I quit guiding to do that, and I learned

1224
01:16:53,200 --> 01:16:58,719
Speaker 1: a bad side of politics. Mm hmm. Some bad stuff

1225
01:16:58,760 --> 01:17:02,400
Speaker 1: goes on there on, you know, when you've got to

1226
01:17:04,800 --> 01:17:07,640
Speaker 1: Jerry Brown was a viologist. He's a good guy. He

1227
01:17:07,800 --> 01:17:12,280
Speaker 1: was really a good guy. But when you've got a biologist,

1228
01:17:12,400 --> 01:17:18,479
Speaker 1: it's in charge of the the special of what they

1229
01:17:18,479 --> 01:17:22,320
Speaker 1: call specialty animals of the State of Montana, which were grizzlies,

1230
01:17:23,479 --> 01:17:29,760
Speaker 1: moves big orange sheep and eventually the Mountain line. I

1231
01:17:29,760 --> 01:17:34,880
Speaker 1: guess they've got in there when uh, you're conducting a

1232
01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:41,840
Speaker 1: study for them and you asked them what are you

1233
01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:49,040
Speaker 1: doing with this information? And they tell you nothing. And

1234
01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:50,680
Speaker 1: then they asked you, why is it that you're not

1235
01:17:50,720 --> 01:17:54,240
Speaker 1: tagging more lines? And you tell them, well, we're using

1236
01:17:54,280 --> 01:17:57,360
Speaker 1: tranquial liners, which in the beginning days I didn't. I

1237
01:17:57,400 --> 01:18:00,600
Speaker 1: caught a number of lines without tranquilizers, but that was

1238
01:18:00,640 --> 01:18:05,200
Speaker 1: clear back in the sixties in California. When they tell

1239
01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:11,080
Speaker 1: you go ahead and start the thing anyway, I said, well,

1240
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:13,479
Speaker 1: the line is up in this country. The most of

1241
01:18:13,520 --> 01:18:17,200
Speaker 1: them retreat pretty high, and uh, I don't want a

1242
01:18:17,240 --> 01:18:20,120
Speaker 1: door to the the line to watch him falls sixty to

1243
01:18:20,200 --> 01:18:23,480
Speaker 1: his death. And they say, go ahead and do it anyways.

1244
01:18:24,840 --> 01:18:26,439
Speaker 1: And I asked the question. I said, what do we

1245
01:18:26,479 --> 01:18:31,120
Speaker 1: do what we tagged that one? And they say, well,

1246
01:18:32,240 --> 01:18:35,720
Speaker 1: what this is really all about is too full the

1247
01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:40,480
Speaker 1: general public into believing that them is efficient. Game Department

1248
01:18:41,920 --> 01:18:45,280
Speaker 1: are doing a lot of things for the good of

1249
01:18:45,320 --> 01:18:49,240
Speaker 1: the animals, but down deep inside, all they're doing is

1250
01:18:49,280 --> 01:18:52,760
Speaker 1: trying to fool the general public. M I heard that

1251
01:18:52,840 --> 01:18:57,600
Speaker 1: out of this state of California, and I heard that

1252
01:18:57,680 --> 01:18:59,479
Speaker 1: in the state of Montana, and I quit him when

1253
01:18:59,479 --> 01:19:03,040
Speaker 1: the when I was told that, I said, I'm done,

1254
01:19:03,960 --> 01:19:07,040
Speaker 1: and uh so I gave it up. But Jerry Brown

1255
01:19:10,400 --> 01:19:14,080
Speaker 1: Um and I started that Mountain lion tagging program in

1256
01:19:14,120 --> 01:19:19,880
Speaker 1: that state. It was like five I think, is what

1257
01:19:19,920 --> 01:19:24,280
Speaker 1: it was. Does this day you can't even find that study.

1258
01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:29,400
Speaker 1: I've I've looked on the internet to find out if

1259
01:19:29,439 --> 01:19:35,880
Speaker 1: there's anything any record of that particular study of lions,

1260
01:19:35,920 --> 01:19:39,799
Speaker 1: and I find nothing. Mhm. But what I can find

1261
01:19:41,439 --> 01:19:45,719
Speaker 1: is where they took my information and published it along

1262
01:19:45,760 --> 01:19:49,360
Speaker 1: with the map showing every place that I was catching

1263
01:19:49,479 --> 01:19:54,840
Speaker 1: lions and releasing lions. And when they did that the

1264
01:19:54,960 --> 01:19:59,040
Speaker 1: following year, it was standing room only in the area

1265
01:19:59,080 --> 01:20:02,520
Speaker 1: that I was hunting. They came as far away as Florida,

1266
01:20:03,720 --> 01:20:05,880
Speaker 1: dount lions in an area that I was trying to

1267
01:20:05,920 --> 01:20:08,920
Speaker 1: do a study in. So this is what I got

1268
01:20:09,040 --> 01:20:11,000
Speaker 1: to say about to the guys with the hound dogs.

1269
01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:15,200
Speaker 1: Be careful who you vote for. Yeah, be careful what

1270
01:20:15,280 --> 01:20:21,479
Speaker 1: you say. Your videos are beautiful, don't put them on

1271
01:20:21,479 --> 01:20:25,640
Speaker 1: the internet. They're using them against you. What happened in

1272
01:20:25,720 --> 01:20:30,639
Speaker 1: California also happened in Oregon. Then it happened in Washington State,

1273
01:20:31,560 --> 01:20:34,360
Speaker 1: also the Panhandle of Idoh. You can't chase bears with

1274
01:20:34,920 --> 01:20:38,240
Speaker 1: with hound dogs in the Panhandle of Ido either. The

1275
01:20:38,360 --> 01:20:42,600
Speaker 1: day's coming. If you're not careful, they're gonna take your

1276
01:20:42,680 --> 01:20:47,800
Speaker 1: hunting privileges away from you, your hound dogs, just just

1277
01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:50,439
Speaker 1: like here, just like they did here. All you'll have

1278
01:20:50,560 --> 01:20:55,840
Speaker 1: his pets. That's all you'll have. And uh so what

1279
01:20:55,880 --> 01:21:04,280
Speaker 1: do we need to do? Yeah, first off, careful who

1280
01:21:04,280 --> 01:21:11,679
Speaker 1: you vote for. Make sure you know who you're voting for. Yeah,

1281
01:21:12,280 --> 01:21:18,120
Speaker 1: Like I say, the these videos, I can certainly understand.

1282
01:21:18,160 --> 01:21:20,759
Speaker 1: You know, back when I was doing this, we didn't

1283
01:21:20,760 --> 01:21:24,040
Speaker 1: have videos. If you had anything of moving, you had

1284
01:21:24,080 --> 01:21:27,120
Speaker 1: to have a movie camera and and you weren't taking

1285
01:21:27,120 --> 01:21:30,519
Speaker 1: that hunting and what you weren't going to take that hunting. No,

1286
01:21:31,040 --> 01:21:33,040
Speaker 1: you had to have a movie camera with you and

1287
01:21:33,040 --> 01:21:35,840
Speaker 1: and and in order to do that, you also had

1288
01:21:35,880 --> 01:21:38,840
Speaker 1: to have the knowledge of how to use that thing.

1289
01:21:39,200 --> 01:21:42,360
Speaker 1: Otherwise you got nothing out of him. You know, today

1290
01:21:42,360 --> 01:21:52,840
Speaker 1: we've got um handheld telephones that give you just beautiful videos. Yes,

1291
01:21:52,960 --> 01:21:55,240
Speaker 1: go ahead and get your videos, just keep it to yourself.

1292
01:21:56,479 --> 01:22:01,240
Speaker 1: You put that thing on the Internet. These detectionists are

1293
01:22:01,280 --> 01:22:04,479
Speaker 1: seeing that and they're gonna use that against you, just

1294
01:22:04,520 --> 01:22:12,000
Speaker 1: like they did here. Yeah. Um, I feel sorry for

1295
01:22:12,080 --> 01:22:16,160
Speaker 1: the guys that I love this sport so much, and

1296
01:22:16,280 --> 01:22:21,559
Speaker 1: yet at the same time they've got shackles on them.

1297
01:22:21,640 --> 01:22:23,720
Speaker 1: They got a short lease put on these guys for

1298
01:22:23,760 --> 01:22:28,240
Speaker 1: those hound dogs. And it's a wonderful sport, it truly is.

1299
01:22:28,320 --> 01:22:33,280
Speaker 1: I just like say, I, I cherished my memories, but

1300
01:22:33,400 --> 01:22:38,200
Speaker 1: I got spoiled. I was spoiled. I truly was. I

1301
01:22:38,240 --> 01:22:40,720
Speaker 1: got to see the best of it. You know. When

1302
01:22:40,760 --> 01:22:46,760
Speaker 1: I started, uh, Mountain Lion was a bountied animal. Podcasts

1303
01:22:46,840 --> 01:22:51,880
Speaker 1: were non protected. Some places the bears are non protected.

1304
01:22:52,360 --> 01:22:53,960
Speaker 1: You could just catch as many as you want, do

1305
01:22:54,000 --> 01:22:59,439
Speaker 1: whatever you want or with them. And today you're lucky

1306
01:22:59,479 --> 01:23:03,120
Speaker 1: if you don't. Yeah, some places you've got to get

1307
01:23:03,160 --> 01:23:05,200
Speaker 1: in a drawing just to be able to to go

1308
01:23:05,320 --> 01:23:08,280
Speaker 1: hunt them. Yeah, you know, well we it really is

1309
01:23:08,320 --> 01:23:12,920
Speaker 1: a it's a wildlife management tragedy. It's a cultural tragedy

1310
01:23:13,320 --> 01:23:17,280
Speaker 1: really that they've what they've done in California with hounds.

1311
01:23:17,840 --> 01:23:20,960
Speaker 1: And I think it's important that we're here and that

1312
01:23:21,040 --> 01:23:23,559
Speaker 1: we're talking about this, and that you've written a book

1313
01:23:23,640 --> 01:23:26,559
Speaker 1: about all these things that people can no longer do.

1314
01:23:27,400 --> 01:23:30,920
Speaker 1: And I think I think people are so well. Human

1315
01:23:31,000 --> 01:23:35,200
Speaker 1: nature is shortsighted. Human nature thinks about today and tomorrow

1316
01:23:35,640 --> 01:23:40,720
Speaker 1: and not further ahead oftentimes, and and and currently, I

1317
01:23:40,760 --> 01:23:43,400
Speaker 1: think there's somewhere around seventeen states where you can run

1318
01:23:44,000 --> 01:23:46,679
Speaker 1: big game with hounds in the United States. I believe,

1319
01:23:46,760 --> 01:23:51,160
Speaker 1: I believe they're seventeen somewhere in that range. And whether

1320
01:23:51,320 --> 01:23:54,960
Speaker 1: these guys know it or not, their rights are currently

1321
01:23:55,560 --> 01:24:01,000
Speaker 1: being plotted against as we speak. And and so even

1322
01:24:01,000 --> 01:24:04,479
Speaker 1: in places where that it's not as threatened, it is

1323
01:24:04,600 --> 01:24:08,240
Speaker 1: absolutely threatened by the current culture of this of the

1324
01:24:08,280 --> 01:24:11,960
Speaker 1: world of the in specifically this country. And you know

1325
01:24:12,040 --> 01:24:16,080
Speaker 1: what I say to people, ed, is that we have

1326
01:24:16,120 --> 01:24:18,040
Speaker 1: to get a whole lot smarter. We wrote an article

1327
01:24:18,040 --> 01:24:21,040
Speaker 1: in Barony magazine the other day about not posting bay

1328
01:24:21,160 --> 01:24:24,200
Speaker 1: up videos of hounds and social media and all this.

1329
01:24:24,479 --> 01:24:27,240
Speaker 1: I'm in a percent agreement with you. The one thing

1330
01:24:27,280 --> 01:24:30,520
Speaker 1: that I know that I can do as a houndsman

1331
01:24:31,439 --> 01:24:34,760
Speaker 1: is clean up my own act. If I could say

1332
01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:37,479
Speaker 1: it that way, I mean some of the bad apples

1333
01:24:37,520 --> 01:24:40,280
Speaker 1: inside the hound hunting community that have given people a

1334
01:24:40,320 --> 01:24:43,240
Speaker 1: bad name by being poachers or by being this or that,

1335
01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:46,439
Speaker 1: and there's there's gonna be there's gonna be bad characters

1336
01:24:46,439 --> 01:24:51,480
Speaker 1: in any sport, any sport. There's bad characters in tennis. Uh.

1337
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:55,320
Speaker 1: But but I think about if we're being if we're

1338
01:24:55,320 --> 01:24:59,639
Speaker 1: being scrutinized, then Clay Nukem better be on his best

1339
01:24:59,680 --> 01:25:02,360
Speaker 1: behavi of your all the time. I mean we're being

1340
01:25:02,400 --> 01:25:04,680
Speaker 1: scrutinizing on the way we care for our dogs, were

1341
01:25:04,720 --> 01:25:08,160
Speaker 1: being scrutinized on you know, everything. So it's like, man,

1342
01:25:08,200 --> 01:25:10,679
Speaker 1: I want to make sure that I'm doing everything right.

1343
01:25:11,080 --> 01:25:12,559
Speaker 1: And then part of what we're trying to do at

1344
01:25:12,600 --> 01:25:17,200
Speaker 1: Barony Magazine is that if I believe that, if if

1345
01:25:17,280 --> 01:25:21,400
Speaker 1: we don't create the narrative and tell our narrative, then

1346
01:25:21,439 --> 01:25:23,960
Speaker 1: the bad guys are gonna tell the narrative for us.

1347
01:25:24,280 --> 01:25:25,599
Speaker 1: And that's part of the reason I wanted to come

1348
01:25:25,640 --> 01:25:29,000
Speaker 1: talk to you is to is to uh. I mean,

1349
01:25:29,040 --> 01:25:32,599
Speaker 1: hound hunting is an incredible sport. It's an incredible heritage

1350
01:25:32,640 --> 01:25:35,840
Speaker 1: that we have in this country. I mean, jeez, are

1351
01:25:35,920 --> 01:25:39,080
Speaker 1: hunting culture was founded on hounds. I mean George Washington

1352
01:25:39,120 --> 01:25:42,720
Speaker 1: had hounds, Teddy Roosevelt loved hound hunting. I mean we

1353
01:25:42,800 --> 01:25:49,120
Speaker 1: have this rich, rich history, and if our generation, my

1354
01:25:49,240 --> 01:25:52,320
Speaker 1: generation doesn't do something different and get a whole lot smarter,

1355
01:25:52,479 --> 01:25:56,400
Speaker 1: a whole lot wiser, a whole lot more savvy when

1356
01:25:56,439 --> 01:25:59,599
Speaker 1: it comes to how we handle social media and Internet

1357
01:25:59,640 --> 01:26:02,840
Speaker 1: and all this different stuff, we will lose it. And

1358
01:26:02,880 --> 01:26:05,719
Speaker 1: that's what then, and what we're saying is, hey, let's

1359
01:26:06,000 --> 01:26:09,599
Speaker 1: let's be smart. Let's let's not lose it, and let's

1360
01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:14,439
Speaker 1: tell our narrative scientific base. This is conservation base. Bears

1361
01:26:14,479 --> 01:26:17,840
Speaker 1: are thriving in North America. Mountain lions where there's good

1362
01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:23,360
Speaker 1: habitat are thriving. Hounds are management tool that that we

1363
01:26:23,520 --> 01:26:26,800
Speaker 1: used to manage these animals, and it's a beautiful and

1364
01:26:26,840 --> 01:26:29,960
Speaker 1: amazing thing, really is, you know, I want to I

1365
01:26:30,000 --> 01:26:32,800
Speaker 1: want to add something here that what we're talking about. Yeah,

1366
01:26:32,840 --> 01:26:36,120
Speaker 1: we've had outlaw hunters is what we kind of dubbed him,

1367
01:26:36,160 --> 01:26:41,080
Speaker 1: you know, and I'd have to say that it's not

1368
01:26:41,160 --> 01:26:48,759
Speaker 1: all their fault. Um. In the twenty five plus years

1369
01:26:48,760 --> 01:26:52,720
Speaker 1: that I did this, I did this. This wasn't a

1370
01:26:52,800 --> 01:26:58,120
Speaker 1: hobby to me. I was in the woods um um

1371
01:26:58,160 --> 01:27:00,600
Speaker 1: a dozen years there. I made my living from that.

1372
01:27:00,680 --> 01:27:04,240
Speaker 1: If I had two nickels to rub together, it was

1373
01:27:04,280 --> 01:27:07,479
Speaker 1: because somebody gave me that for taking them hunting, and

1374
01:27:07,520 --> 01:27:09,040
Speaker 1: if they gave it to me for taking the hunt,

1375
01:27:09,080 --> 01:27:10,920
Speaker 1: and it's because they got the animal that they were

1376
01:27:11,479 --> 01:27:13,960
Speaker 1: hunting for, or they didn't give me the two nickels,

1377
01:27:14,000 --> 01:27:25,280
Speaker 1: you know. But over all those years I hunted California, Nevada, Utah,

1378
01:27:25,960 --> 01:27:33,439
Speaker 1: Idaho in Montana, and and all that time, which is

1379
01:27:34,040 --> 01:27:38,960
Speaker 1: like thousands and thousands of days, I think I only

1380
01:27:39,000 --> 01:27:45,200
Speaker 1: saw three three game wardens three different times. Now, the

1381
01:27:45,280 --> 01:27:47,720
Speaker 1: woods were left wide open for the outlaw hunter to

1382
01:27:47,760 --> 01:27:51,200
Speaker 1: do anything he felt like, and he did. He did

1383
01:27:51,240 --> 01:27:52,880
Speaker 1: do anything he felt like. He didn't have anything to

1384
01:27:52,920 --> 01:27:57,720
Speaker 1: worry about. Nobody's gonna nobody's gonna catch him. Big predators

1385
01:27:57,720 --> 01:28:00,920
Speaker 1: were just not on the right. Do you think do

1386
01:28:00,960 --> 01:28:03,360
Speaker 1: you think it's different now? And I mean, because I

1387
01:28:03,720 --> 01:28:06,000
Speaker 1: would think that it would be different. I have no

1388
01:28:06,120 --> 01:28:08,320
Speaker 1: idea what they're doing. They kind of turned a blind

1389
01:28:08,360 --> 01:28:10,400
Speaker 1: eye to it, that's what you're saying. They just didn't care.

1390
01:28:10,479 --> 01:28:14,040
Speaker 1: They didn't care. Yeah, but eventually that there's some people

1391
01:28:14,080 --> 01:28:17,960
Speaker 1: came along. They did care, and they had money and

1392
01:28:18,000 --> 01:28:20,680
Speaker 1: they had a lot of spare time too, and they

1393
01:28:20,680 --> 01:28:24,280
Speaker 1: really don't like doing what we were doing. They didn't

1394
01:28:24,280 --> 01:28:28,080
Speaker 1: like that idea. You know the same people though, the

1395
01:28:28,120 --> 01:28:31,719
Speaker 1: anti hunting community. Yes, right, but yet these people also

1396
01:28:31,760 --> 01:28:35,439
Speaker 1: have the ability, through through money, to take and by

1397
01:28:35,600 --> 01:28:40,800
Speaker 1: legislators to introduce bills to stop a guy with his

1398
01:28:40,920 --> 01:28:45,080
Speaker 1: hound dogs. Well, it's been a pleasure to talk with you,

1399
01:28:45,160 --> 01:28:48,720
Speaker 1: and and people can people can find this once you

1400
01:28:48,720 --> 01:28:52,760
Speaker 1: tell us where people can find your book. Okay, UM,

1401
01:28:52,880 --> 01:28:57,120
Speaker 1: it's I have a website and it's by the titles

1402
01:28:57,120 --> 01:29:00,000
Speaker 1: of the book. You go www Trained by hound Dog

1403
01:29:00,080 --> 01:29:03,680
Speaker 1: dot Com. You can purchase the book there, or you

1404
01:29:03,720 --> 01:29:06,920
Speaker 1: can go to Amazon and you can purchase it on

1405
01:29:07,000 --> 01:29:10,519
Speaker 1: Amazon as well. It makes no difference where you purchase it.

1406
01:29:10,600 --> 01:29:14,240
Speaker 1: Amazon will cost you more money. And I mail every

1407
01:29:14,240 --> 01:29:16,680
Speaker 1: one of them, so it doesn't matter. They all come

1408
01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:20,240
Speaker 1: out of this house right here. And uh so that's

1409
01:29:20,240 --> 01:29:22,479
Speaker 1: the place that she can go and it'll it'll enlighten

1410
01:29:23,560 --> 01:29:26,880
Speaker 1: some of you too. Um, other things we've not talked about.

1411
01:29:27,880 --> 01:29:33,519
Speaker 1: And UM, I'd sure like to see. Um a lot

1412
01:29:33,560 --> 01:29:37,160
Speaker 1: of these protection is stopped. I really do. I I

1413
01:29:37,160 --> 01:29:40,280
Speaker 1: have no interest in going any myself, but I never

1414
01:29:40,360 --> 01:29:43,760
Speaker 1: forgot how good it is to do it. So they

1415
01:29:43,760 --> 01:29:46,880
Speaker 1: can go to Trained by a Hounddog dot com. And

1416
01:29:46,920 --> 01:29:49,960
Speaker 1: this is uh, two hundred and something page book. How

1417
01:29:49,960 --> 01:29:55,440
Speaker 1: many it's about two eight seventy some photos, beautiful photos.

1418
01:29:55,760 --> 01:29:59,760
Speaker 1: And I just want to say that I was really

1419
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:02,639
Speaker 1: pressed with this book. Obviously I wouldn't be here if

1420
01:30:02,680 --> 01:30:07,080
Speaker 1: I if I was not, but thoroughly enjoyed the writing style,

1421
01:30:07,760 --> 01:30:11,120
Speaker 1: the storytelling aspect of it. I felt like it had

1422
01:30:11,240 --> 01:30:15,960
Speaker 1: just the right amount of of of human story but

1423
01:30:16,120 --> 01:30:20,439
Speaker 1: also hound dog story and hunting story and excitement, but

1424
01:30:20,560 --> 01:30:23,599
Speaker 1: also kind of this you really got a sense of

1425
01:30:23,600 --> 01:30:26,240
Speaker 1: of you as a young man, just kind of given

1426
01:30:27,200 --> 01:30:29,719
Speaker 1: all that you had to this dream that you had

1427
01:30:29,800 --> 01:30:32,240
Speaker 1: to to live the kind of lifestyle that you wanted

1428
01:30:32,280 --> 01:30:35,480
Speaker 1: to live with your hounds, and uh, and I admired

1429
01:30:35,560 --> 01:30:41,200
Speaker 1: your diligence and just you're starting from zero and becoming

1430
01:30:41,600 --> 01:30:46,080
Speaker 1: really a master houndsman over those years. And uh, and boy,

1431
01:30:46,280 --> 01:30:48,720
Speaker 1: there's so much I wanted to talk about, you know.

1432
01:30:48,800 --> 01:30:53,280
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about some of the the physical

1433
01:30:53,439 --> 01:30:57,000
Speaker 1: endurance things that you did chasing these dogs and staying

1434
01:30:57,000 --> 01:31:01,160
Speaker 1: out way after dark and uh, you know, coming in

1435
01:31:01,280 --> 01:31:04,760
Speaker 1: after fifteen twenty miles a day on foot and coming

1436
01:31:04,800 --> 01:31:08,200
Speaker 1: in hours after dark and cold. I mean, just some

1437
01:31:08,280 --> 01:31:10,240
Speaker 1: of the stuff that you did physically, I felt like

1438
01:31:10,400 --> 01:31:14,120
Speaker 1: was just incredible and not a lot of people are

1439
01:31:14,160 --> 01:31:16,559
Speaker 1: are doing that kind of stuff these days. But no,

1440
01:31:16,720 --> 01:31:19,120
Speaker 1: I just well, and like I said at the beginning,

1441
01:31:19,160 --> 01:31:23,200
Speaker 1: that your your voice inside the book is strong and

1442
01:31:23,200 --> 01:31:26,479
Speaker 1: and it's clear to just for me to perceive that

1443
01:31:26,520 --> 01:31:30,519
Speaker 1: you're a man of integrity and and uh, just I

1444
01:31:31,120 --> 01:31:34,000
Speaker 1: I really thoroughly enjoyed the book. So I i'd really

1445
01:31:34,040 --> 01:31:37,519
Speaker 1: encourage everybody to get it supported and then in this

1446
01:31:37,560 --> 01:31:40,200
Speaker 1: book and you'll enjoy it for sure. It's a it's

1447
01:31:40,200 --> 01:31:42,320
Speaker 1: a great book. And uh, thank you so much for

1448
01:31:42,360 --> 01:31:44,760
Speaker 1: having us up today. Oh hey, I'm glad that you're here.

1449
01:31:45,400 --> 01:31:48,200
Speaker 1: You got a wonderful family. I'll tell you that, thank you.

1450
01:31:48,240 --> 01:31:51,080
Speaker 1: This is really good. Thank you. I welcome to the

1451
01:31:51,120 --> 01:31:54,040
Speaker 1: opportunity to do this. And I will tell you this

1452
01:31:54,240 --> 01:31:57,600
Speaker 1: that don on that book, I've did the best I

1453
01:31:57,640 --> 01:32:00,160
Speaker 1: could to make it to where it didn't it's out

1454
01:32:00,200 --> 01:32:03,840
Speaker 1: like a how great I am type of a book,

1455
01:32:03,880 --> 01:32:06,640
Speaker 1: and no bragging or anything like that. I brought a

1456
01:32:06,720 --> 01:32:11,479
Speaker 1: lot of other individuals into to the book, people from

1457
01:32:11,520 --> 01:32:15,240
Speaker 1: past that I never knew, but I knew about him

1458
01:32:15,240 --> 01:32:18,559
Speaker 1: and I I knew the true side to the to them.

1459
01:32:19,439 --> 01:32:21,839
Speaker 1: I know that not everything that gets written down is honest.

1460
01:32:22,800 --> 01:32:26,160
Speaker 1: I can tell you this from my point. Every single

1461
01:32:26,160 --> 01:32:32,400
Speaker 1: word that's in there is true. UM, no exaggerations, and UM,

1462
01:32:32,520 --> 01:32:37,679
Speaker 1: I think you'll find it interesting. There's some other hound

1463
01:32:37,720 --> 01:32:42,439
Speaker 1: men that, UM, you never knew and never heard about that. Um,

1464
01:32:42,640 --> 01:32:47,800
Speaker 1: the way that they did things, the dogs they had, UM,

1465
01:32:47,960 --> 01:32:50,960
Speaker 1: I never I never was color blind. I'll tell you that.

1466
01:32:51,040 --> 01:32:55,599
Speaker 1: I I had a saying that I would tell people

1467
01:32:55,600 --> 01:32:57,600
Speaker 1: when they'd asked me about different breeds of dogs, and

1468
01:32:57,640 --> 01:33:03,280
Speaker 1: I'd almost always tell him that I never saw a

1469
01:33:03,320 --> 01:33:07,040
Speaker 1: good dog that was the wrong color. And uh and

1470
01:33:07,160 --> 01:33:10,200
Speaker 1: I really meant that. And I mentioned other brought other

1471
01:33:10,240 --> 01:33:14,679
Speaker 1: guys into the book. Charlie Tamp he lived like Ben

1472
01:33:14,760 --> 01:33:21,160
Speaker 1: Lilly and M got some photos of Charlie. I mentioned, UM,

1473
01:33:21,400 --> 01:33:23,759
Speaker 1: Howard built and he was a California state line hunner.

1474
01:33:24,640 --> 01:33:26,880
Speaker 1: I never could find anything that was ever written about

1475
01:33:27,400 --> 01:33:30,720
Speaker 1: Howard Builton is a lion hunter. But Howard Builting had

1476
01:33:30,720 --> 01:33:33,800
Speaker 1: to be good. I could go by his record, and

1477
01:33:33,800 --> 01:33:35,920
Speaker 1: I could tell that he caught too many lines to

1478
01:33:35,960 --> 01:33:40,240
Speaker 1: be anything less than good. And uh. Um. But anyways,

1479
01:33:40,439 --> 01:33:43,560
Speaker 1: I entered out a lot of that killed six d

1480
01:33:43,760 --> 01:33:50,080
Speaker 1: something lines of California. Well, no, J Bruce, Um he

1481
01:33:50,160 --> 01:33:55,519
Speaker 1: had recorded kills of six hundred and six hundred sixties something.

1482
01:33:55,520 --> 01:33:58,440
Speaker 1: Those are not bragging stories. Those are stories that were documented.

1483
01:33:59,040 --> 01:34:00,439
Speaker 1: It took a set of ear is off of a

1484
01:34:00,479 --> 01:34:03,400
Speaker 1: lion to before we went down on a piece of paper.

1485
01:34:04,200 --> 01:34:06,240
Speaker 1: But J. Bruce was one of the He was the

1486
01:34:06,320 --> 01:34:10,720
Speaker 1: very first aid line hunter. But M Charlie lived like

1487
01:34:10,800 --> 01:34:12,920
Speaker 1: a bad person. I mean he didn't have a house.

1488
01:34:13,800 --> 01:34:15,960
Speaker 1: He just lived out there wherever you, wherever he stopped,

1489
01:34:15,960 --> 01:34:18,679
Speaker 1: that's where he lived. But he still called lots alliance

1490
01:34:18,760 --> 01:34:21,160
Speaker 1: and they did it while walking to do a No

1491
01:34:21,920 --> 01:34:25,600
Speaker 1: no GPS, no four wheel drives, no horses, none of that.

1492
01:34:25,800 --> 01:34:28,559
Speaker 1: He just won't. And well, but so I put that

1493
01:34:28,600 --> 01:34:32,760
Speaker 1: in the book and because I think it needed to

1494
01:34:32,800 --> 01:34:38,200
Speaker 1: be in there. And hopefully, um, if you ever get

1495
01:34:38,240 --> 01:34:40,920
Speaker 1: the book, you'll read it. And if you do, I'd

1496
01:34:40,960 --> 01:34:42,120
Speaker 1: like to hear it from you and see what you

1497
01:34:42,200 --> 01:34:44,840
Speaker 1: think about it. Yeah. Yeah, so if you get a book,

1498
01:34:45,040 --> 01:34:47,960
Speaker 1: send uh send it an email and give him a

1499
01:34:48,000 --> 01:34:53,280
Speaker 1: review on Amazon. But uh, well again my pleasure to

1500
01:34:53,320 --> 01:34:55,240
Speaker 1: be here, ed, thank you so much for having us,

1501
01:34:55,280 --> 01:34:58,120
Speaker 1: and uh we have it. We have a saying at

1502
01:34:58,120 --> 01:35:01,360
Speaker 1: the end of every podcast that we say alright, alright,

1503
01:35:01,400 --> 01:35:04,200
Speaker 1: I'll say it, but I'm gonna slightly amend it for

1504
01:35:04,280 --> 01:35:07,120
Speaker 1: this one because we're talking about lions. But keep the

1505
01:35:07,160 --> 01:35:11,719
Speaker 1: wild places wild because that's where the lines live. Okay,

1506
01:35:12,800 --> 01:35:13,800
Speaker 1: all right, all right,