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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to What Future. I'm your host, Joshua Tapolski,

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Speaker 1: and I guess say we have a real treat today.

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Speaker 1: I'm excited we managed to get a guest on that

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Speaker 1: frankly was a pretty you know, pretty hard booking to

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Speaker 1: lock in and not surprising due to all the all

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Speaker 1: the excitement swirling around this person. But you know, I

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Speaker 1: do have a little bit of an inn and so

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm excited to say that today on the

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Speaker 1: show we have the former editor in chief of Threads,

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Speaker 1: Katie Natopoulos, who also is a former senior reporter at

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Speaker 1: BuzzFeed and a general like internet personality, I think, a

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Speaker 1: well known and well loved and also probably hated internet personality.

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Speaker 1: I'm excited to talk to her. I should also say that,

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Speaker 1: you know, she is my sister in law, but that's

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Speaker 1: just an icing on the cake as far as I'm concerned,

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Speaker 1: because Katie, long before she was my sister in law,

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Speaker 1: was an iconic figure online and so I'm excited to

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Speaker 1: get her back on the show and talk about her

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Speaker 1: latest adventure, which involves a wild ride with the one

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Speaker 1: and only Mark Zuckerberg. So let's just not waste any

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Speaker 1: more time let's just get into this thing. What is

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Speaker 1: that coffee over there, Katie? You drinking a coffee late

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Speaker 1: in the day.

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Speaker 2: That's actually it's a beer.

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Speaker 3: Is it beer? You hiding it? You're concealing your beer?

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Speaker 2: Well? Does that keep it cold?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, because otherwise it was like gonna get like warm

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Speaker 4: in the can because it.

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Speaker 1: Reads, Yeah, it reads this concealment. But I do understand.

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Speaker 1: I understand what you're saying.

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Speaker 4: For Father's Day, we got like Thermoses to drink beer

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Speaker 4: in the park, which sounds also now sad, but to

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Speaker 4: conceal it well, so there's like every Sunday there's like

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Speaker 4: a concert in the park here, and like everyone brings

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Speaker 4: like beer and wine, but like this way it can

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Speaker 4: be like it has like a lid so it doesn't spill.

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Speaker 4: So it's mye So now I found it very convenient,

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Speaker 4: keeps things frosty.

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Speaker 3: That's great, Katie.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad that I could get you back about to

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Speaker 1: keep back on the show. Even though we are you know, related,

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Speaker 1: and you know, in a family together, it's hard to connect.

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Speaker 1: You were just saying, you're just saying before we started

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Speaker 1: that you guys hadn't been to a swim we have

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Speaker 1: a pool, and you hadn't been over to swim, and

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Speaker 1: that is that is true, not all summer long, and

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Speaker 1: we're in We're in mid August right now.

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Speaker 3: It's true.

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Speaker 4: I've been I've been waiting for an invite, but my

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Speaker 4: million box is strangely empty.

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Speaker 3: Ow.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's a standing invite, you know, basically.

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Speaker 1: But I guess you're right. We could be more proactive

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Speaker 1: about it. So on that issue, I guess I am

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Speaker 1: fully to blame. But but you've had a busy you

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Speaker 1: have personally had a very busy summer, and I wanted

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Speaker 1: to talk about it. I don't remember the date exactly,

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Speaker 1: but this was the summer of Threads. I think, as

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Speaker 1: everybody's been referring to it, it's the uh I.

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Speaker 3: Think we've all been talking about Meta introduced.

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Speaker 1: It's Twitter competitor threads and you know, too much fanfare.

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Speaker 1: It's built a huge following a huge amount of followers

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Speaker 1: quickly on threads. Hundreds of millions of people have joined,

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Speaker 1: at least one hundred million.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: And you were, you know, early on, you were really

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Speaker 1: setting the tone on threads as Meta's Threads editor in chief.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, first off, could you talk about.

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Speaker 1: The experience of what that was like building, you know,

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Speaker 1: working with the team with Adam and Zuck to build

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Speaker 1: the product, and just talk a little bit about the

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Speaker 1: creation of Threads.

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Speaker 2: So, Josh, first of all, thank you for having me on.

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Speaker 4: I'm your sister in law and I've been a tech

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Speaker 4: reporter for a long time, previously at BuzzFeed News, which

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Speaker 4: unfortunately shut down at the end.

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Speaker 2: Of April, and I was so lucky to get.

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Speaker 4: A wonderful opportunity to become the editor in chief of

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Speaker 4: the new Threads app which launched in the beginning of July.

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Speaker 2: And you know.

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Speaker 4: I was just so excited to really get to work

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Speaker 4: with the phenomenal team over at Meta.

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Speaker 2: And just seeing them work was like wow, you know,

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Speaker 2: it was like it was like watching the Miracle on

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Speaker 2: ice hockey team.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, wait, hold on, wait, who is who is

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Speaker 1: the miracle?

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Speaker 4: Ey?

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Speaker 1: Is that like a show where like people are doing

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Speaker 1: like they're like dancing or whatever.

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Speaker 3: What is miracle? What is the miracle on eyes?

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Speaker 4: If you could just sure, I believe it was the

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Speaker 4: nineteen eighty USA hockey team in the Olympics that, against

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Speaker 4: all odds.

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Speaker 3: Beat Russia. Okay, oh, okay, in.

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Speaker 2: Eighty four, but I think it was eighty.

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Speaker 1: So not like a Harlem globe trotter situation, like that's

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Speaker 1: in my head that's what I went to immediately, but

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Speaker 1: it's actual thing that happened in history. Okay, that sounds

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Speaker 1: like Vega.

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Speaker 4: There's actually I believe there's even a move, a fairly

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Speaker 4: recent movie about it called Miracle, But it was I

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Speaker 4: think the idea was that they were sort of like

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Speaker 4: the underdogs and the people, which is strange. It's like,

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Speaker 4: why would people think that the US was not good

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Speaker 4: at hockey? I men, I guess I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I don't know the history. I a lot of ice rush,

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Speaker 2: fairly famous sports thing.

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Speaker 4: And also someone's going to like respond to this podcast

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Speaker 4: and be like two Olympics, idiot.

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Speaker 3: So listen.

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Speaker 1: So you were there at the beginning, you were working

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Speaker 1: with the team, and then of course the app launches.

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Speaker 3: Everybody's freaking out about it.

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Speaker 1: You know, Elon Musk is going crazy threatening lawsuits, and

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Speaker 1: Azuka is cracking hilarious. Joe suddenly, Mark Zuckerberg, you're at

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Speaker 1: the time your boss, your by at least your boss's

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Speaker 1: boss is suddenly.

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Speaker 2: That's what I call him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's suddenly become a little bit of a folk hero.

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Speaker 1: The he's the David that's laid Goliath. He's actually like Goliath.

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Speaker 1: He's like actually like the Goliath that slaid David or whatever.

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Speaker 1: I guess anyhow, you know, he's like, it's like the

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Speaker 1: bad guy won in a way, but also yeah, they're

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Speaker 1: both bad guys. So like, you know, again, as I

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Speaker 1: as I put on Threads in the early days, I

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Speaker 1: posted the Alien versus Predator poster from the when the

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Speaker 1: film came out, and it's of course has the famous

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Speaker 1: tagline whoever wins, we lose, And I said, this is

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Speaker 1: the only way to think about the thread situation.

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Speaker 4: Right, It's like, ultimately you're you're rooting for a guy

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Speaker 4: who should be tried at the Hague.

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Speaker 1: They say they say the enemy of my enemy is

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Speaker 1: my friend or something like that. I think that's like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, all these guys are shitheads who suck.

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Speaker 1: But okay, so getting back to it, I mean very

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Speaker 1: successful and accomplished shitheads who suck. So you're the Threads

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Speaker 1: editor in chief. A couple of questions, One is, can

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Speaker 1: you tell me a little bit about what the job entailed?

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Speaker 1: In that role, give me a little like flavor of

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Speaker 1: what was going on right around launch as you were,

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Speaker 1: you know, sort of really putting the pieces together.

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Speaker 4: Sure, so I think that, you know, really a big

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Speaker 4: important thing was I would consider my role there. It's

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Speaker 4: like a vibe some some milia, you know, a vibe curator. Really,

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Speaker 4: you know, it was it was a lot of like

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Speaker 4: welcoming celebs on. It was like, hey, guys, we've got

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Speaker 4: Eva Longoria.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's amazing. We've got George t Que. He's just

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Speaker 2: threatened it up.

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Speaker 1: You're almost like a You're almost like a you wanted

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Speaker 1: to bring the the quality posters to the forefront.

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Speaker 3: You were sort of a facilitator in a way exactly.

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Speaker 2: And so when someone like Gary Vee shows up on Threads.

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Speaker 1: And there, I'll never forget that day, you know, when

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Speaker 1: he was finally on and I'm like, finally culture has

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Speaker 1: arrived on Threads and yeah, it was it was amazing.

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Speaker 1: But then listen, it was all going great. The early

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Speaker 1: days were fantastic, mm hmm, but then there was a

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Speaker 1: little bump in the road. Can you talk about the

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Speaker 1: situation that that went down and which ultimately led to

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Speaker 1: your spoiler alert but your dismissal as editor in chief,

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Speaker 1: can you talk a little bit about what happened?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, unfortunately, this this all unfolded in my first day

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Speaker 4: officially on the job.

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Speaker 2: But you know, that's I was.

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Speaker 4: I was just posting, because you don't say tweet on threads.

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Speaker 4: Its posting lots of threads about how I'm the new

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Speaker 4: editor in chief and this is my new job and

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Speaker 4: I'm so happy and excited and a lot of like,

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Speaker 4: you know, s full of thread you know, emoji totally

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Speaker 4: r you know, muscle.

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Speaker 2: Arm emoji, rocket ship emoji.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I thought your energy was amazing because it was really

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Speaker 1: like the kindest, most welcoming, like most pro threads energy

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Speaker 1: that anybody could put out there.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and and then two things sort of went wrong

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Speaker 4: for me, so, you know.

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Speaker 2: And of course I was, you know, just doing my job.

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Speaker 4: But a journalist from the Intercept, Ken Clippenstein, I think, so.

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Speaker 1: That sounds right. He's got a great, great newsletter, got

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Speaker 1: a great newsletter.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: He he posted a picture of Mark Zuckerberg shaking hands

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Speaker 4: with NBS. The Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia committed horrible uh.

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Speaker 2: Acts, And so I said something like, you know, every time.

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Speaker 4: We should just continually keep posting this picture every like

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Speaker 4: in response to Mark, you know, Zuckerberg every time he posts.

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Speaker 3: Ken's trying to keep mind it right.

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Speaker 4: And I think a little bit you know, pointing out hey,

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Speaker 4: because for a moment, you know, one sort of uncanny

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Speaker 4: thing about the threads is that all these Facebook executives

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Speaker 4: who like never tweeted or like posting it up, you know.

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Speaker 1: Trapping Itch in particular, is was incredibly active on threads.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, remains incredibly active.

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Speaker 4: So you know, I think that I think that a

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Speaker 4: little bit people were like excited by that. It was

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Speaker 4: sort of funny, you know, he was doing a little

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Speaker 4: like you know, riffing on Elon and uh, you know,

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Speaker 4: seeming like a cool guy. And you know, I think

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Speaker 4: Ken wanted to remind people that you know, he's complicit

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Speaker 4: and some very bad things. I responded to you know,

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Speaker 4: of course, you know, as editor in chief, I responded

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Speaker 4: to him, you know, waving hands emogie. Hey, Ken, I

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Speaker 4: know that you know you didn't know this, but actually

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Speaker 4: bullying is not allowed on this platform, and so bullying

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Speaker 4: you ever post this picture again, We're going to have

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Speaker 4: to deactivate your account.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Threads is a product that's kind of build out

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Speaker 1: of Instagram, and you have to remember that Instagram has

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Speaker 1: a very strict moderation policy, and so I think you

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Speaker 1: have to remind people like Threads, it's not the same

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Speaker 1: it's not the same situation as Twitter.

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Speaker 3: Not It's not just like any kind of bullying is.

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Speaker 4: Going to be I can't just bully billionaires. We don't

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Speaker 4: toperate that here on Threads. Bullying is bullying, that's right.

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Speaker 4: You can't not bully Mark Zuckerberg. And so I think

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Speaker 4: a lot of people, you know, were they're a little

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Speaker 4: surprised by that as official Threads policy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay.

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Speaker 4: And then someone else had responded to me, asking are

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Speaker 4: you going to ban the Nazis from Threads? And you know,

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Speaker 4: I took a page from my boss, Mark Zuckerberg, who

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Speaker 4: you know, in the past has said that he would

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Speaker 4: be happy to allow Holocaust deniers because it's simply a

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Speaker 4: different viewpoint.

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Speaker 3: That's right, that's right, Fame.

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Speaker 1: I think we should remember famously, Mark Zuckerberg, who is

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Speaker 1: a Jew, famously told I think Kara Swisher, I want

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Speaker 1: to say on a podcast that he was like, yeah, like,

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Speaker 1: if there's Holocaust and ires on the platform, Like that's

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Speaker 1: okay because they just are sharing.

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Speaker 3: They don't have to view.

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Speaker 1: Them, right.

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Speaker 2: I think they're wrong, but I'm not going to ban them.

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Speaker 3: I mean it was fair.

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Speaker 1: You know, you got to see it, got to see

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Speaker 1: from every side. Like there's the side it's like, hey,

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Speaker 1: this thing happened. It like a horrible genocidal atrocity happened.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's the like the fact base, science based side,

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Speaker 1: you know. But then on the other hand, there's like

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Speaker 1: an opinion like it didn't happen, which I think is

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Speaker 1: also like a valid argument.

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Speaker 3: Right right.

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Speaker 4: And I think at the time his reasoning here was

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Speaker 4: I think it was in the discussion was sort of

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Speaker 4: about misinformation, and he was he was His argument was

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Speaker 4: that people who are Holocaust deniers aren't intentionally trying to

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Speaker 4: misinform other people when they say the Holocaust int happened.

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Speaker 4: They genuinely believe this edroneously, but they they're just they

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Speaker 4: just happened to be mistaken. They you know, kind of

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Speaker 4: like how I thought the Miracle on Ice happened in

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Speaker 4: nineteen eighty but it was really nineteen.

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Speaker 3: Eighty two, that's right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, who amongst us hasn't hasn't believed

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Speaker 1: it something that was incorrect and then shared it widely

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Speaker 1: on a social network, Right.

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Speaker 4: So, I mean I do believe that the stance on

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Speaker 4: Holocaust deniers has changed.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they reversed a sand.

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Speaker 2: Since that interview.

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Speaker 3: I thought it was.

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Speaker 1: It turns out if you say something totally stupid, embarrassing.

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Speaker 2: It's off you for like months about it.

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Speaker 3: It's obviously wrong, you will reverse your stance on it.

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Speaker 4: I think, yeah, I do think that their their policies

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Speaker 4: on that have have evolved since that interview.

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Speaker 2: But anyhow, but.

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Speaker 3: Getting back to the point, you were taking a cue

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Speaker 3: from mar.

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Speaker 4: So, someone said, will you will you ban the Nazis?

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Speaker 4: And I said, here on Threads, you know, we welcome

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Speaker 4: diversity of viewpoint and we welcome everyone. This is an

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Speaker 4: inclusive space, and that includes being welcoming and inclusive of

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Speaker 4: people who choose to live a Nazi lifestyle.

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Speaker 2: And a lot of people got upset from that.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think, as I think in a situation where

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Speaker 1: you're representing you know, the Threads app really, when you

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Speaker 1: think about it, like as the editor in chief, in

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Speaker 1: some ways you're the most vocal representative of the of

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Speaker 1: that space. I mean, I get it, you know, I

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Speaker 1: think saying like you know, we we we the Nazis

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Speaker 1: here is a little controversial, I guess. I mean Mark,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't sound like it would have been that big

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Speaker 1: of a deal to Mark.

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Speaker 2: But but then what happened, uh so, you know, I.

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Speaker 4: Mean, well, a couple of interesting things happened, so that

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Speaker 4: particular post sort of it went like viral. But I

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Speaker 4: can't really tell because Threads doesn't show you like retweet count.

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Speaker 2: Or like, it doesn't really allow you to see, and you.

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Speaker 4: Can't search, so it's really actually hard to see how

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Speaker 4: far something is traveling. Like I could see that a

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Speaker 4: lot of people were commenting on it. I could tell

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Speaker 4: that a significantly above average number of people were commenting on.

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Speaker 3: And this was at this point. At this point, had

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Speaker 3: the app hit one hundred million users at this point,

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Speaker 3: I think.

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Speaker 2: No, I think that's a good day or two later.

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Speaker 4: But I could also see that people back on Twitter

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Speaker 4: were sharing screenshots of it.

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Speaker 2: I could see the people.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about, sorry, just to be clear, so people

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Speaker 1: off platform or screenshot and and they were sharing on

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Speaker 1: other platforms, Like the editor in chief of Threads just

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Speaker 1: said this, right, So that's incredible.

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Speaker 3: God, Katie, it was a lot of.

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Speaker 4: Like, you know, hey, I'm I was considering checking out

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Speaker 4: Threads because this was you know, it was like the

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Speaker 4: first day or something.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people were like should I try it?

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Speaker 2: Should I go for it?

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Speaker 4: And then people would be like sharing the screenshop being like,

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Speaker 4: no way, I'm not going to join this app because

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Speaker 4: look what the editor in chief says, right yeah.

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Speaker 2: I feel like at.

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Speaker 4: This point, Josh, I feel like I have to spoil

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Speaker 4: the bit, and for anyone who's listened this long time, really,

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Speaker 4: really I need to make it clear that.

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Speaker 2: Like I was joking, I was not the editor in

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Speaker 2: chief of Threads.

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Speaker 1: Okay, fine, all right, fine, let's let's spoil the bit.

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Speaker 1: Katie was pretending to be the role that doesn't exist,

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Speaker 1: the editor in chief of Threads. And then I mean,

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Speaker 1: I actually, I mean I was hoping we continue the

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Speaker 1: bit through to the point where you were called into

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Speaker 1: I believe you said you were called into Mark's office,

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Speaker 1: but maybe it was Adam.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I you know, I think that I just

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Speaker 4: I feel bad for any listener who's like tuning in,

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Speaker 4: being like, why is just talking to this Like.

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't think I think my audience is savvy

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Speaker 1: enough to see through the veil of humor that we've

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Speaker 1: dropped on them.

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Speaker 3: But so yeah, to be clear, you were doing a bit.

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Speaker 4: So it was a bit like it was basically like

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Speaker 4: the first day I like sign up for an account

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Speaker 4: and I was like, you know what am I gonna

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Speaker 4: do here? And I was like, immediately my brain went

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Speaker 4: to like I've got a fuck around, like I've got

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Speaker 4: a troll lightly.

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Speaker 1: On you, because I think people have to understand that

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Speaker 1: you are a professional poster and like I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of people don't realize like what that means, and

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Speaker 1: what it means is when you get on a platform,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna you're gonna post, and uh, you went right

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Speaker 1: to the to the heart of the matter. You went

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Speaker 1: right to the heart of posting, which was pretending to

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Speaker 1: be an employee, pretending to be an employee of threads.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 1: And and because you have like a you know, you

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Speaker 1: have a following, and people like started to following you immediately.

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Speaker 3: It was like, I mean, everybody.

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Speaker 1: Who was following you, who knows you and your thing,

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Speaker 1: was like this is the greatest bit of all time.

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Speaker 1: Like everyone was like playing along with the bit and

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Speaker 1: uh and so yeah, I mean it quickly spiraled out

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Speaker 1: of control.

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Speaker 3: From what I can tell.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, I feel a little bad because I

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Speaker 4: I think I probably overestimated the quote.

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Speaker 2: Everyone who knows me like knew it was a bit,

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Speaker 2: because I think that like people who know.

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Speaker 4: Me well knew it was a bit people who maybe

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Speaker 4: were like vague acquaintances. And it keep in mind, Threads

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Speaker 4: hooks into your Instagram friend graph, so it was like,

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Speaker 4: you know, my friends on there were like people who

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Speaker 4: you know, like like real normies, like not people who

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Speaker 4: were maybe familiar with my work or.

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Speaker 3: Your Twitter graph and your Instagram graph are a bit different.

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Speaker 4: Right, And also like there's just plenty of people who

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Speaker 4: like maybe they followed me on Twitter or something, but

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Speaker 4: they don't like know me. And you know, like if

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Speaker 4: I'm saying something that sounds like a conceivable truth and

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Speaker 4: then I'm like, haha, you suckers. I was lying, Like

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Speaker 4: I don't know, It's not their fault for not knowing that, right, Like,

377
00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:18,800
Speaker 4: I think what was funny about it to me, at least,

378
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,280
Speaker 4: was that the idea of an editor in chief of

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Speaker 4: Threads was both ridiculous but plausible.

380
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Speaker 1: Plausible and I think widely accepted by many people.

381
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Speaker 4: To be honest, there was this sort of I mean,

382
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Speaker 4: like there is not an editor in chief of Threads,

383
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:38,479
Speaker 4: but there was a time, you know, in like twenty

384
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:40,600
Speaker 4: fifteen or something where it seems like every app had

385
00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,040
Speaker 4: like an editor in chief, you know, or like there

386
00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,840
Speaker 4: was always some sort of like former journalist person, and

387
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:49,000
Speaker 4: that was for a while a very lucrative thing to do,

388
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Speaker 4: to like be a journalist and then go be the

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Speaker 4: editor of like Snapchat or something.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, and so that moment is sort of over.

391
00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:01,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, By the way, I went back while you were

392
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,320
Speaker 1: telling the story and just went to look at some

393
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:09,119
Speaker 1: of the posts you're doing. What strikes me is particularly,

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00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,600
Speaker 1: like I think resonant about them is that you are

395
00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:18,480
Speaker 1: basically doing like what Linda Yakarino's been doing on Twitter.

396
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,960
Speaker 1: Like it's like a person who is so on the

397
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:26,399
Speaker 1: fucking payroll, like so obviously embarrassingly on the payroll for

398
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,400
Speaker 1: like kind of a shithead, but has to be like

399
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,760
Speaker 1: everything's going great, right, It's like if this is fine

400
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:36,439
Speaker 1: type of tweeting or posting or whatever. If you're like,

401
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:38,840
Speaker 1: you know, just got out of a big meeting with

402
00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:40,840
Speaker 1: Zuck and the Meta team. We're absolutely loving all the

403
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,000
Speaker 1: great posts you're all doing here. Keep up the great

404
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,720
Speaker 1: work everyone, artie this and make sure you follow me.

405
00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:48,199
Speaker 1: And then you're like, you know, Keith Edwards, Threads hit

406
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:50,399
Speaker 1: thirty million users in ten hours, My god, and you

407
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,160
Speaker 1: are like quote quote posting this and you're.

408
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,720
Speaker 3: Like, amazing, great work everyone on my threads. Teap.

409
00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,960
Speaker 1: Then you've got like the arm, the bodybuilding arm in

410
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:03,080
Speaker 1: the rocket red z emoji. It's like it's just very

411
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,960
Speaker 1: it's just very like you know in a way, it's

412
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:07,880
Speaker 1: like you know, blink twice if you know you need

413
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:09,640
Speaker 1: help or whatever, like yuh.

414
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,040
Speaker 4: I feel like my one of my favorite ones is

415
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,320
Speaker 4: I think I said something like I just want to

416
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,800
Speaker 4: like say, how many amazing posts are especially from brands.

417
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:22,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, actually I just went past that. One

418
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,480
Speaker 1: thing I'm loving is how funny brands are on here.

419
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:26,960
Speaker 1: You guys are killing it. That's a post that you

420
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:28,800
Speaker 1: did on threads. I like this one too. This one

421
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,359
Speaker 1: is amazing. It's a repost of mister Beast, who's like

422
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,760
Speaker 1: to celebrate threads launching. I'm gonna give this tesla to

423
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,879
Speaker 1: a random follower. And you're like woo hoo. The Threads

424
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:39,760
Speaker 1: team and I worked hard with Tesla and mister Beast

425
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,439
Speaker 1: to make this awesome contest happen. Thank you to Elon

426
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:44,639
Speaker 1: for donating the car and your support of the silly

427
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:45,200
Speaker 1: little app.

428
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,119
Speaker 3: Then it's the Threads emoji, a thread emoji, the.

429
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:52,480
Speaker 1: Rocket ship emoji, the strong arm emoji, and the car emoji.

430
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:58,560
Speaker 1: It's just so fucking perfectly bland cheerleading of like the

431
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,719
Speaker 1: product that it is. I would say, like largely all that,

432
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,960
Speaker 1: like Linda Yakarino has done on Twitter. It's like, I'm

433
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:06,720
Speaker 1: not sure that she has any power, but she definitely

434
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,320
Speaker 1: goes on Twitter and is like, We're so excited about

435
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,800
Speaker 1: what we're building here, and it's like, are you She's

436
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:15,159
Speaker 1: just cashy the check anyhow. But yeah, so so, but

437
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,240
Speaker 1: then you went through a whole thing where you got fired,

438
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:18,520
Speaker 1: Like you went through a whole bit.

439
00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:22,679
Speaker 4: So the Nazi thing, in particular, I could tell was

440
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:24,520
Speaker 4: like getting a little out of hand.

441
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:25,360
Speaker 2: And I say out of hand.

442
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:29,360
Speaker 4: It was like all my friends and people who sort

443
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 4: of like knew me knew this was very clearly a joke,

444
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 4: and that the joke is about how Facebook and platforms

445
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:37,639
Speaker 4: have kind of actually.

446
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:38,280
Speaker 3: Yes, viewed that.

447
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 1: Yes, you know, the joke is the joke is this

448
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,200
Speaker 1: is the answer that they actually fucking give a lot

449
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,000
Speaker 1: of the time when you're like are you going to

450
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,040
Speaker 1: moderate rights Nazis or are you going to moderate like

451
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,680
Speaker 1: hate speech? Are you going to moderate lies? And they're like, well,

452
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:52,600
Speaker 1: we welcome all viewpoints, and it's like.

453
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:57,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I could tell it had traveled outside of

454
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,159
Speaker 4: that bubble of people who know me and knew it

455
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,960
Speaker 4: was a joke, and it was onto something bigger where

456
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:07,240
Speaker 4: people were just generally aghast by it, which you know, again,

457
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 4: I think is a good thing because I think people

458
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:15,880
Speaker 4: should repeatedly feel agast by like the poor content moderation

459
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 4: decisions that are happening on platforms.

460
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:19,439
Speaker 3: But wait, hold on, hold on a second, Hold on

461
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 3: a second. Is this real?

462
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:23,720
Speaker 1: There's a fucking oh, there's like some Economic Times dot

463
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 1: India Times dot com. Who's Katanatopolas know about? Editor in

464
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,280
Speaker 1: chief of Threads now fired over a controversial post. It's

465
00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 1: just like I think an actual article from some like

466
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 1: oh it is okay. Taking to Twitter on Friday, July

467
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 1: said seventh, Katie atopol has announced on Twitter that she

468
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 1: has now fired as editor in chief of Threads met

469
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,640
Speaker 1: as new social media app there recently wanted, okay, whatever

470
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,719
Speaker 1: this is like one like if you search for Nazi lifestyle,

471
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,879
Speaker 1: hold on, oh this is okay, these are your Nazi

472
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:53,160
Speaker 1: lifestyle Threads app. That's like the second there's multiple articles.

473
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 1: There's actually multiple articles written about I.

474
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:59,359
Speaker 4: Think what happened was that it basically like you know

475
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,200
Speaker 4: how you know the a famous tweet about how like.

476
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 2: Everyone's goal on Twitter is to not be the person of.

477
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,920
Speaker 4: The day, right, yes, yes, I was the Threads person

478
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,159
Speaker 4: of the day for like a moment, and like, I

479
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 4: think it got to the point where it's probably somehow

480
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 4: hit some Google metric of trending, like and so these

481
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,880
Speaker 4: seo like sites that kind of you know, like what's

482
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,399
Speaker 4: the one like breaker or like.

483
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,879
Speaker 3: I don't know, they're all anything.

484
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 4: That basically is just like sensing whenever there's a blip

485
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:34,359
Speaker 4: in the like.

486
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,679
Speaker 1: The site Dexero, do you know the same Dexerto?

487
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 3: I feel like, no, don't worry.

488
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,399
Speaker 4: There's a Katie in the topless one now because of

489
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,160
Speaker 4: this too.

490
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 1: And who is who is Kaane? The topless troll. Threads

491
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 1: editor goes viral with controversial posts. I mean they did

492
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 1: like a full on BuzzFeed style like fucking slide show

493
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 1: ship on this, Like it's so really.

494
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 2: Funny because it feels very AI generated too.

495
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not sure that these aren't, to be honest,

496
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 3: Like it.

497
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 4: Just attracted enough Google information. I think that the post

498
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 4: on Threads had traveled enough that people enough people were

499
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 4: googling who is Katie to topless because they were trying

500
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,120
Speaker 4: to figure out if it was legit, right, I think, right,

501
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 4: I think a lot of people were like unclear.

502
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: Well, Also, the fact that you had been for a

503
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 1: long period of time a reporter at BuzzFeed made the

504
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,880
Speaker 1: plausibility of you becoming the editor in chief of Threads

505
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,119
Speaker 1: just absolutely perfect.

506
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 3: I mean it was like completely acceptable to believe that.

507
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, like yeah right, like BuzzFeed News shut down

508
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:33,439
Speaker 1: like she got a new job, is like editor in

509
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 1: chief of Threads like completely By the way, I'm sorry,

510
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,360
Speaker 1: I'm reading a sports keyted dot com some fun. There's

511
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 1: some these crazy spam, random fucking gout. The internet is

512
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 1: full of such guardas.

513
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 2: Oh definitely.

514
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 4: Well, one thing is a couple of them said that

515
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 4: incorrectly they thought my account was taken down.

516
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 2: What ended up happening.

517
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 3: Yes, they did say that.

518
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 4: That's right, the Nazi post was taken down, that one

519
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 4: single post that was the post.

520
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 1: Were you pretending to be, as a joke, the editor

521
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,400
Speaker 1: in chief of Threads, a role that does not exist.

522
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 1: Were you were telling a person a thing that you

523
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 1: had zero actual power to do or implement, which is

524
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,640
Speaker 1: letting people who leave a Nazi lifestyle post on Threads.

525
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 3: They took that post down just to be clear.

526
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 2: That that is krreshed.

527
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 3: So and what was the rationale? Was it impersonation? What

528
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 3: was the no.

529
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 4: When you get a post taken down, it doesn't tell you,

530
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 4: like exactly why, And you know, there's a very clear

531
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 4: reason for that, because a lot of the time Facebook

532
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 4: doesn't want you to know exactly its rules, right, Like

533
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,439
Speaker 4: they keep it fuzzy for a reason because as soon

534
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,640
Speaker 4: as people know the exact rules, they're going to gain

535
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 4: the system.

536
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 1: Right.

537
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,399
Speaker 4: So it just said like this was in violation of

538
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 4: our policies or whatever. My guess would be that it

539
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:56,400
Speaker 4: would fall under like you're not allowed to like encourage

540
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 4: or show support of hate groups. To can't say I

541
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 4: like you can't say I'm not a Nazi, but I support.

542
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 3: Them, right, sure, yeah, okay, fair.

543
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,120
Speaker 2: So I have a feeling it probably fell under that.

544
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 4: I mean, I wouldn't be totally surprised if the fact

545
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:20,360
Speaker 4: that I was also impersonating Threads employee played some context.

546
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 2: I think there's sort of two versions. One is that

547
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 2: like people.

548
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 4: Probably reported it, you know, like people report things race.

549
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 4: It flagged to some outsource moderator who had to make

550
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 4: a decision in point five.

551
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 3: Second, guy in a sweatshop who has to look at.

552
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 4: The possible this you can't like you're not allowed to

553
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 4: praise Nazis or show support of them, Like does that

554
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 4: count as praising Nazis? I don't know, maybe like sure,

555
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 4: take it down whatever, like but you know, frankly, you

556
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 4: know what better safe than sorry? Fine, I'm happy with that,

557
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 4: you know. Or it's possible, I think much less likely that,

558
00:26:55,760 --> 00:27:00,199
Speaker 4: like there was a higher level discussion about whether or

559
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 4: not to allow that very misleading, an inflammatory post about

560
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,199
Speaker 4: meta itself to continue.

561
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 3: Well, I think I think in a way it would.

562
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 3: It exposed.

563
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: First off, was a very funny bit, and everybody who

564
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 1: does know you thought it was very enjoyable to watch

565
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,439
Speaker 1: it play out. But I think what it exposed is

566
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 1: like you touched on it already. Is the real and

567
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 1: sort of absurd reaction that these companies have to things

568
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 1: that twe a person, a normal person seem obviously like addressable.

569
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 1: And I think you brought up the thing where Zuckerberg said,

570
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 1: you know, well it's a different opinion or whatever about

571
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: like holocaust and ires, and I think like there was

572
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: also as a part of that, and it may have

573
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 1: been that interview, or it may have been a separate

574
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,919
Speaker 1: post that he did on Facebook or something where he

575
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,439
Speaker 1: was like, I don't believe I should be you know,

576
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 1: the person who decides what speech like should be allowed

577
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 1: and shouldn't be allowed on this platform or whatever. It's

578
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: like rationale is like, well, it's such a big platform

579
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,120
Speaker 1: and there's so many people on it, Like I can't

580
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: be the one, you know, the guy who decides. And

581
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: it's like, well, you know what the thing is. It's

582
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 1: a publicly owned company that is a for profit business,

583
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: and like ultimately you actually get to say as the

584
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: CEO what you won't, will and won't allow on the platform.

585
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: And they do it all the time, right, Like there's

586
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 1: a ton of shit, there's a ton of shit you

587
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: cannot put on Facebook, Like a million different horrible things

588
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,439
Speaker 1: you cannot post on Facebook, and it's like you could

589
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 1: decide and just have you just have to deal with

590
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: the fact that people will go like, you're not letting

591
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 1: all the viewpoints on here, but like so fucking what right,

592
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 1: But they don't want to do that. They want to

593
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 1: play this like weird middle ground, like for what reason.

594
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: I don't really know. I understand like the concept, but

595
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 1: it's not hard.

596
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 4: To be really I think the reason is clear, right

597
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 4: Like that. Ultimately, Mark Zirgerber doesn't really care about the moderation.

598
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 4: He cares about getting hauled in in front of Congress

599
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 4: and having Republicans yolotan because he moderated too much, right, right,

600
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 4: So this gives him the whole excuse of like we

601
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 4: created this out outside the Facebook Oversight Committee and basically

602
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 4: just punt all those hards. He does not do anything

603
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 4: to not have to be the one to make the

604
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 4: decision about banning or not banning Donald Trump.

605
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: I would love I would love to be in front

606
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: of Congress and have someone be like, you know, question

607
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: the why or why you ban a Nazis thing, you know,

608
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: and just be like, look, dude, you know if somebody's

609
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 1: clearly posting Nazi shit, like I don't know, seems.

610
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 3: Pretty straightforward, like if you think otherwise, like I'm all yours.

611
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 3: I just don't understand the argument.

612
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 2: You know, it's it's never okay, so it's never going

613
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 2: to be the Nazis.

614
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 3: No, but you can use the Nazis. You can use

615
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 3: the Nazis.

616
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 4: To be fair, Facebook has banned Nazis for a long time, okay,

617
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 4: and so his Instagram and like, frankly, the question about

618
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 4: like are you're gonna be Nazis on threads, it's like, yeah,

619
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 4: you know what they've had, Like you're.

620
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 2: Not allowed to like already ban a Nazi for a

621
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 2: long time, right, Like the.

622
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 3: Only place where Nazis aren't banned is Twitter.

623
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 2: That's the right, or you know, honestly, technically they probably are.

624
00:29:58,360 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 3: No, I don't think they are. I don't think they are.

625
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 4: I don't I have a feeling if you are, like

626
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 4: literally I'm a Nazi like that stuff, it's probably a no.

627
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 4: But I think where you get into trouble is all

628
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 4: these edge cases things like like libs of TikTok is

629
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 4: the perfect example of something that's this like really frustrating

630
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 4: edge case for these things where it's like she's constantly

631
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 4: towing the line of like, oops, I'm going a little

632
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 4: bit over what you said the rules were, Oops I'm

633
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 4: not you know, back and forth. And if it wasn't

634
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 4: someone who had like millions of followers and all of

635
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 4: a sudden, like a lot of eyes on her, they

636
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 4: would have banned her a long time ago. But now

637
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 4: it's like now she's this like nightmare person who's so

638
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 4: popular that if she gets.

639
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 2: Banned, and like Josh Hawley's gonna yell and like.

640
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 4: It's not necessarily just like the Nazis, because I just

641
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 4: like the reason everyone sort of uses that as an example.

642
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 4: It's like, of course you bann the Nazis. The question

643
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,959
Speaker 4: is like do you ban the transphobes? Like do you

644
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 4: ban there's a lot of stuff that doesn't fall under

645
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 4: h beats that is very objectionable, right or.

646
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 2: That like they wiggle there.

647
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 4: They're really right up against that of the line of

648
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 4: you know, hey, maybe some of the posts get flagged.

649
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 2: Some of their posts, don't you know.

650
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, so that's where they run into problems, you know,

651
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 4: that's where people are like annoyed by them for not

652
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 4: being a little bit stricter on that stuff, right, I mean, like,

653
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 4: you know, content moderation and trusted safety and policy is

654
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 4: not easy, right, Like I think that like it sort

655
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 4: of does a disservice.

656
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 2: I think to make it also seem like it.

657
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 4: Would just be so easy just bend lots of people,

658
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 4: Like that's not purely the answer, but clearly Facebook has

659
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 4: done a very like there's a there's a lot to

660
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 4: point to about how they fail, right, Yeah, they've They've.

661
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 2: Done a lot of unforced errors, sure.

662
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 3: At any rate, So you know, it was a good run.

663
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 3: You'd a great run.

664
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 2: It was a good run.

665
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 4: But I started getting like a little bit like once

666
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 4: I started seeing the like SEO stuff pop up. Yeah,

667
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 4: a couple people were really like aggressively. There was one

668
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 4: guy who I was like, buddy, what's what's what's going

669
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 4: on here? Like he was just messaging me on every

670
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 4: possible platform to be like, Nazi jokes not funny, You're disgusting.

671
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 4: And I think at first he didn't know it was

672
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 4: a joke, so he was just like he didn't think.

673
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 2: It was a joke.

674
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 4: He was like, you're disgusting, you support Nazis. Yeah, and

675
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 4: then eventually.

676
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 2: He realized that it was a joke, and he was like,

677
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 2: Nazi jokes.

678
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 4: So not funny, but he was, you know, he was

679
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 4: sending me LinkedIn messages, he was emailing me. I was like, buddy, like,

680
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 4: I agree, I don't like the Nazis either, Like, but

681
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 4: please stop bothering me. Right, he was getting like a

682
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 4: little I could tell I was in a my head

683
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 4: and so I was like, I gotta fire realself.

684
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 2: I can't keep this joke up much longer.

685
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: Interesting, Okay, I didn't realize I sort of missed the whole.

686
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: I mean I maybe saw somebody share the Nazi thing,

687
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 1: like laughing about it or saw you do it, and

688
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 1: I was like, well, clearly, you know she's making this joke.

689
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: I guess I didn't realize that the reason you stopped

690
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 1: was sort of because of this outside sort of weird

691
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: shit that was going on, Like well.

692
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 2: Some of amazing.

693
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 4: I mean, I wasn't gonna keep up the gag forever.

694
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 4: It was also like funny for one day and then

695
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 4: like it wasn't you know, it wasn't gonna be that

696
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 4: much funny right anymore anyways, But but it is weird

697
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 4: that like because threads doesn't show you the you know,

698
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 4: likes and reposts numbers. It's hard for an outsider to

699
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 4: tell if something is actually going viral or not. So like,

700
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 4: there's no reason you would have known that this was

701
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 4: actually like blowing up right. The only reason I could

702
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 4: know is because I was seeing some of the notifications

703
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 4: of like the responses and the thing, and I was

704
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 4: seeing the chatter on other platforms, like I had people

705
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 4: like texting me weird stuff. Like honestly, it tricked a lot,

706
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 4: like it tricked Walt Mosburg.

707
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 2: Like yeah, like, oh really did about it?

708
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 4: Like I don't think this threads thing is gonna be

709
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 4: very good because of look at this, like there was

710
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 4: a screenshot that was sort of like a distant bodies

711
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 4: and like balth Mosberg doesn't know who I am. He

712
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 4: doesn't know that I'm kidding, Like right, Waltmarpha, of course,

713
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 4: is a very famous uh techtern.

714
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: But you know what's funny is that Walt Mosburg and

715
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 1: I love Walt, but one of his big projects he

716
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: works on now is news literacy. Like he has this

717
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: whole thing that he's doing around news literacy, And I

718
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 1: just want to say, pretty amazing that he saw that

719
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: didn't fact check who the person was, didn't know who

720
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 1: the person was, and then like.

721
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 4: Just I mean I have to say, like justice for

722
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 4: Walt here, because like, how is he going to fact

723
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,359
Speaker 4: check Katie de toopolss is a little piece of shit? Right?

724
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 3: Like no, I mean you could just google Katie to

725
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 3: topless and they'd.

726
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,320
Speaker 4: Be like wow Alden seeing oh she is a former

727
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 4: reporter at BuzzFeed, she probably works like that makes me

728
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:56,879
Speaker 4: chicks out.

729
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:58,839
Speaker 1: She's gone on the dark side. I guess, Okay, maybe

730
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 1: he did. You're right, Okay, no reason.

731
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 4: For him to know that, Like I'm a gremlin who

732
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:06,399
Speaker 4: likes fucking around, you know.

733
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, did you feel you were in danger at

734
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 1: any point? Did you feel like it had gotten so?

735
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 4: I think it was a mix of Like part of

736
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,280
Speaker 4: what I felt bad about is like I was dunking,

737
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:18,839
Speaker 4: like the dunk. I mean it wasn't even a dunk, right,

738
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,879
Speaker 4: Like it was upsetting people whose viewpoints I agree with, right,

739
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 4: Like people who are like I don't want Nazis on

740
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 4: my platform, and this upsets me.

741
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, I agree, like and.

742
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:32,439
Speaker 3: So well, that's the point. That's the joke.

743
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 4: Sometimes there are people who are being like a little

744
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 4: too like gullible and earnest about it, but also like.

745
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 1: No, I get it, I get it, But like the

746
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: problem is the reason why it penetrated and the reason

747
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: why people were upset is because it sounds exactly like

748
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: something that some fucking editor in chief of Threads hired

749
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: by Mark Zuckerberg and Adamasiri might actually say.

750
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 3: And like that's the thing.

751
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 1: It struck a nerve both internally, I'm sure ed Metta,

752
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: and also with the audience because it rang true and

753
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:04,800
Speaker 1: and and by the way, I'm not saying you shouldn't

754
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:06,439
Speaker 1: have killed the joke. That makes a lot of sense,

755
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,919
Speaker 1: but I think what is more telling is it rang

756
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: so true and so many people reacted in earnest to it,

757
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 1: and that's not an accident. And I actually think like

758
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 1: at the heart of your joke, which obviously was you

759
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: ultimately and I know for a fact you had no

760
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 1: ulterior motive of doing anything smart or.

761
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 3: You know interesting.

762
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 1: I know that I know I know you well enough

763
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 1: to know that you were just fucking around and being

764
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 1: funny and thought it was like a good gag.

765
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 3: But like the at the heart of it, what it

766
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 3: really exposes.

767
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 1: Is like the actual underlying bullshit of these platforms and

768
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 1: and like in a way like was it's the most

769
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: effective possible critique of their shit. I mean, you know,

770
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 1: people are always like comedians are the modern day philosophers.

771
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 1: But you know, I think like you're your like parody

772
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 1: or whatever worked because people think it's completely reasonable that

773
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,359
Speaker 1: that's what a representative of Threads would say, and that's

774
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 1: actually like a Mark Zuckerberg problem that like they have

775
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 1: yet to really effectively solve.

776
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,439
Speaker 4: So yeah, you know, and to be perfectly fair, also,

777
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 4: I mean, like I you know, I did think I

778
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 4: was being like a little bit smart.

779
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 2: And cheeky, but I will also say that I feel

780
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:12,839
Speaker 2: like I was old.

781
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:14,720
Speaker 1: Look kay, I mean I'm not saying it wasn't clever,

782
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 1: but I'm just saying, like, I don't think you were

783
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:20,360
Speaker 1: like trying to make a major point about like society

784
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: or anything.

785
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,399
Speaker 4: I think I saw that like my eight friends would

786
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 4: think it was pretty funny, and they did, and they

787
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 4: did anyway, So yeah, So then I think the next

788
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,280
Speaker 4: day my plan to get out of it was I said,

789
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 4: you know, oh boy, I have an unscheduled meeting in

790
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 4: my calendar to meet with Mark this morning, so.

791
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 2: Excited to go and see what the big boss.

792
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 4: Says, and then you know, thirty minutes later, I said,

793
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:44,800
Speaker 4: oh my god, I can't believe this, but I've been fired.

794
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 3: You played out who the whole narrative.

795
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a lot of fun for me.

796
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:52,240
Speaker 3: I'll tell you something.

797
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 1: Your thing that you were doing was one of the

798
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 1: few things in the early days of Threads that really

799
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: made me feel like this could work. I was like, oh, like,

800
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: Katie's doing her thing and everybody's kind of like reacting

801
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 1: to it, and we're all, like, you know, where most

802
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 1: of us are in on the joke, some of us

803
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: are not, But like, it just felt like weird, you know,

804
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 1: it felt like weird Twitter. It felt like like, you know,

805
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 1: the kind of shit that goes on where it's it's loose,

806
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: you know, and like it's posting. But honestly, like, you know,

807
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: I don't see a lot of that on Threads. I

808
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,839
Speaker 1: don't see a lot of anything of like sparks, any

809
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 1: kind of real like delight.

810
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 3: At this point.

811
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:27,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, Threads has definitely.

812
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 4: I mean, all the indicators showed that, you know, it's

813
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 4: been dropping and users. Although it's hard, I don't know,

814
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 4: I still check it multiple times a day.

815
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm looking at threads like on a more regular

816
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 1: basis than I'm looking at Twitter.

817
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, like, I don't know, it's I think

818
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 4: it's still like hard to say what will happen. Like

819
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,880
Speaker 4: it's not a surprise that people who came for the

820
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 4: first day to like be like, oh my favorite Hollywood

821
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:58,319
Speaker 4: celebrities and Instagram influencers are on here, and then of

822
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 4: course those people sort of dropped off off like and

823
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 4: are active. I think the question is how many people

824
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 4: will stick around who were like I've never been on Twitter,

825
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 4: or like maybe I joined Twitter once and smith like

826
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 4: I left, but hey, goods, thing is kind of fun.

827
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 4: And how many people are like I'm on Twitter and

828
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 4: I hate it, So what is this a good place

829
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 4: for me to go instead? You know, Like yeah, I

830
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 4: think between those two things, like there's it's kind of

831
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 4: it's you know, I think it's still got a chance.

832
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think the thing about it is,

833
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 1: you know, not that we can really know what the

834
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 1: future holds, but just seems like the the value of

835
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: it and the utility of it is just going down

836
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 1: and down. The question is like can I mean, to me,

837
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 1: it's like can the threads app figure out some of

838
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 1: the basic things that people want who are migrating or

839
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 1: who want to use something else, which is like I

840
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:50,879
Speaker 1: need to find all the people that like I want

841
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 1: to follow, and they need to be able to find me,

842
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 1: like the real people that I follow. Not like no

843
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 1: diss to my Instagram folks, but like that graph is

844
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 1: not reflective of like who I.

845
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 3: Want for like information and jokes.

846
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 1: It's more like things I like to look at or

847
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:06,840
Speaker 1: family members who I want to see, like pictures of

848
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:08,959
Speaker 1: like they're like what they're doing on vacation or their.

849
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 3: Kids or whatever. You know what I mean.

850
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,879
Speaker 1: It's not like, Yeah, it's definitely a different use case,

851
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: and like I think they need to have some solution

852
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 1: to that, and they need to have some solution to

853
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 1: making it feel like there's an active, real time conversation

854
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 1: going on. One other thing I think actually kind of sucks.

855
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 1: It's like Twitter tells you when there's new posts, like

856
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 1: it's like there's new posts and you're like, oh shit,

857
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 1: I gotta check those out.

858
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, Threads doesn't seem to do that.

859
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 1: When I can tell like if you sit on threads

860
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 1: and just like check out what's going on, it doesn't

861
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 1: like prompt you to.

862
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 4: I mean that actually feels like something that might be intentional,

863
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 4: Like I feel like that's sort of like we want

864
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 4: to make this a healthy place. It doesn't make you

865
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 4: feel like you're like addicted and have to refresh constant.

866
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 3: Well, then it won't work. You need to be addicted.

867
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:49,760
Speaker 3: That's the whole point of this type of service.

868
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:53,320
Speaker 4: I believe that they are working on more product features

869
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 4: that will address a lot of the.

870
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:56,280
Speaker 2: Complaints that people have right now.

871
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 4: I think the thing is like they clearly launched is

872
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 4: such a bare boe owned version that it may have

873
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,280
Speaker 4: actually been a turn off to a fair amount of people,

874
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 4: because you know, when you launched it as a like

875
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:07,439
Speaker 4: you couldn't even see like just a following feed.

876
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:08,879
Speaker 2: It was like it was only the sort of four

877
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 2: year yeah right.

878
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 4: I Mean the funny thing is like had they waited

879
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 4: a few more weeks finished out those extra features they

880
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,919
Speaker 4: were working on, Elon would have done something justice.

881
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 1: There's no shortage, Yes, there's no shortage of stupid shit

882
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: that guy's going to come up with.

883
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 4: I mean I think that, like, I think the idea

884
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,720
Speaker 4: that they had to jump on that timing of like oh,

885
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 4: shit like Twitter's down, like let's get our replacement thing

886
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 4: out right away.

887
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:35,359
Speaker 2: It is like people still would have.

888
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 4: Liked it because Twitter is still just as fucked up

889
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 4: and you know, even worse.

890
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:41,959
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's all bad.

891
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,799
Speaker 1: I do think, you know, not to not to be

892
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:46,839
Speaker 1: a downer or whatever, but I do feel like we're

893
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,319
Speaker 1: just at the period of like the social media thing

894
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 1: has just become so such a chore and so like

895
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,400
Speaker 1: un fun. I find more than anything, like what is

896
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: just bums me out is there was a period, a

897
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 1: pretty long period where at least for my purpose, which

898
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 1: is like funny jokes and like you know news stuff

899
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 1: or like you know story stuff that people are like

900
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 1: posting or talking about, it wasn't the way it is now,

901
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:11,399
Speaker 1: Like it didn't feel that way.

902
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 3: It wasn't always combat.

903
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 1: Yes, there would be like the character of the day

904
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 1: or whatever, but that was like one person, not everybody

905
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:20,879
Speaker 1: was like in the site, you know, it really wasn't

906
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 1: even that fucking popular, like by comparison to an Instagram

907
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,240
Speaker 1: or a Facebook or like I think they're like fucking

908
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 1: TikTok or snapchat.

909
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 3: They're all way bigger, oh way bigger. But it served a.

910
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 1: Purpose and it was like pretty fun most of the time.

911
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 1: It could occasionally be horrible, but it was like fairly

912
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 1: fun like most of the time. And then like you know,

913
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:43,760
Speaker 1: I would say, coinciding with like the Trump campaign for sure,

914
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 1: that definitely upped the temperature on the service. And through

915
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 1: those years I just became like really degraded in like

916
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 1: the kind of discourse. It was just people who were made.

917
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 1: And Elon took that in, like he took all of

918
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 1: the anger and the vitriol and the like brokenness and

919
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 1: the context collapse and everything and just magnified it in

920
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:09,319
Speaker 1: a way that makes it feel really shitty and like

921
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 1: a bombery, you.

922
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 2: Know what it's like.

923
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 3: You know Ghostbusters too, I'm familiar with the film.

924
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 4: So you know the premise there is like there's this

925
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:19,760
Speaker 4: haunted painting of the Vigo.

926
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,280
Speaker 3: It's it's a it's a painting of a guy named Vigo.

927
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think his name is like Vigo the Destroyer

928
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 1: or Vigo the Annihilator or something.

929
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 4: And he's a sort of you know I've in the

930
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 4: terrible type historical persona or whatever, and and he is,

931
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 4: you know, a haunted ghost and he his power. He

932
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 4: grows more and more powerful by feeding off hate and anger.

933
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 4: And you know, it just so happens his painting has

934
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 4: come to the met in New York City and there's

935
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 4: this sort of great scene where it's like the subways

936
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 4: are just flowing with this pink slime and it's like, oh,

937
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,720
Speaker 4: it's because everyone, you know, New York City is so angry,

938
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 4: like all the time, cabs honking or whatever. Yeah, I

939
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 4: feel like that's you know, that's kind of a metaphor

940
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 4: for Elon Musk and Twitter is like feeding off this.

941
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:09,240
Speaker 3: I agree.

942
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:11,839
Speaker 1: And by the way, the guy's name is Vigo the Carpathian.

943
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 1: That's the name of the of the painting. Yeah.

944
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:15,760
Speaker 3: Anyhow, but I'll tell.

945
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 4: You what, Josh, I feel both similar and different to you.

946
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 2: And here's how.

947
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 4: Okay, I too mourn the loss of Twitter. I loved Twitter,

948
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 4: like it was so much.

949
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 3: Twitter was your home. Twitter was your playground.

950
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 2: Well, I think a.

951
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 4: Lot of people enjoyed it when it was good, right,

952
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 4: I agree, a lot of really when you think when

953
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 4: you remember all the fun times we had on there, right,

954
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,319
Speaker 4: Like it was a great place to be for like

955
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 4: jokes and like it was a really useful place for news,

956
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 4: Like if there was like a breaking I remember, like

957
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,760
Speaker 4: it was really useful in Hurricane Sandy.

958
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 1: Like yeah, no, I mean there was real there were

959
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:56,360
Speaker 1: real time moments on Twitter that were really quite valuable.

960
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, and like there was a lot, like there were

961
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 4: a lot of like really fun things, and I like

962
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:06,760
Speaker 4: I really enjoyed having wonderful, positive connections with other people

963
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 4: and like that was great, and I like, I, like

964
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 4: you am sad that it is like kind of going.

965
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 4: I don't know if it's not gonna shut down tomorrow,

966
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 4: but like it's not that anymore. It's not the fun,

967
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 4: delightful place. A lot of the people that I enjoyed

968
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 4: communicating with have already left. It's you know, it's not

969
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 4: as much fun. Like fifty percent of the tweets on

970
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 4: there are about Twitter or X. However, I think, unlike you,

971
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 4: I feel like I have some optimism because I feel

972
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 4: like the demise of Twitter and like sort of as

973
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:46,400
Speaker 4: you described, like the end of a sort of social

974
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:51,279
Speaker 4: media moment where it's like Facebook has stunk for a

975
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:53,399
Speaker 4: long time, and like I think a lot of people

976
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 4: have Instagram fatigued too, and like I watch a ton

977
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,280
Speaker 4: of TikTok, but it's nothing that like my friends were.

978
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:01,800
Speaker 3: Using right now talk is it for me?

979
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 2: It's a it's a solitary.

980
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 1: Yes, it's a private You're not sharing, you're not fucking reposting,

981
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 1: you're not responding, You're just experiencing the TikTok.

982
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 4: It's pure consumption. I enjoy it, but I feel like

983
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 4: there's no there's not much social going on there for

984
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 4: me at least. Yes, but I do think that like

985
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 4: this has left an opening for something new, and I

986
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 4: do think that, like, I think there's reasons to be

987
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 4: optimistic about.

988
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 2: What new is next.

989
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 4: You know, Wow, the idea of replacements for Twitter that

990
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 4: are you know, conceivably smaller, like blue Sky massed on

991
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 4: even Threads.

992
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this is spoken like spoken like the

993
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:43,760
Speaker 1: future editor in chief of some social network.

994
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 2: I have to say this is the mark I'm available

995
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:46,879
Speaker 2: for hire.

996
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:50,759
Speaker 1: I mean, look, I'll I'll say this, and then we

997
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 1: got Unfortunately, we do have to wrap up.

998
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 3: As much as I'm enjoying this.

999
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 1: The biggest mistake they made was not hiring you immediately

1000
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 1: to actually be the editor in chief of Threads. In

1001
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,319
Speaker 1: my opinion, the greatest move in the world would have

1002
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 1: been for them to immediately be like let's do it.

1003
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 3: Let's hire Katie. And also, by the.

1004
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 4: Way, I think I for a moment I was like,

1005
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 4: what if they have to say face and I'm right, no,

1006
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 4: But like, I don't think that's a job I would want.

1007
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 1: I do think you would bring a lot of great

1008
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 1: insight and ideas into a place like that. And frankly,

1009
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 1: like I think a service like and not by the way,

1010
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 1: I'm not like making a pitch for you, but like

1011
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 1: a service like Threads would be better for having a

1012
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 1: person like you there who actually like knows why things

1013
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:34,839
Speaker 1: like threads the way it could be, like why it's

1014
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 1: good because I don't think a lot I think there's

1015
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 1: a lot of people there who don't didn't ever really

1016
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:41,919
Speaker 1: get or care about Twitter, who are like, we build

1017
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 1: a thing that's kind of like it. It's like yeah,

1018
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:45,840
Speaker 1: but like you maybe don't actually understand some of the

1019
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 1: key things that make it useful and interesting anyhow. But Katie,

1020
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 1: as always, I have just tremendously enjoyed our conversation. Unquestionably,

1021
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:58,360
Speaker 1: you're one of my favorite people to talk to. And

1022
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:00,919
Speaker 1: I'm not just saying that because you are the mother

1023
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 1: of my of my niece and nephew. It's also because

1024
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 1: you're a genius, a great genius. But it is a

1025
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:08,720
Speaker 1: nice perk that you're the mother of my niece and nephew.

1026
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 1: I think they're pretty cool, and I think it's a

1027
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 1: pretty cool situation all things considered.

1028
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:16,360
Speaker 4: All things considered, it is, Josh. You are also one

1029
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 4: of my favorite people. Thank you to You are one

1030
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 4: of the only people in my family who actually appreciated

1031
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 4: my threads prank.

1032
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:27,280
Speaker 1: Oh well, anybody who anybody, including Eric who didn't fully appreciate.

1033
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: I could see Eric being like, you, guys, stop guy,

1034
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:31,400
Speaker 1: knock that off, like you probably getting very upset about it.

1035
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:34,720
Speaker 2: But I like rolling his eyes a little bit.

1036
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 1: Right, I mean, I can't imagine what it's like to

1037
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 1: be dealing with you on a twenty four to seven

1038
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:40,240
Speaker 1: basis when it comes to your like present.

1039
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:42,959
Speaker 4: The problem is it's exactly what you would imagine, which

1040
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 4: is incredibly annoying for Eric, my husband, which is that

1041
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 4: like it's it's me on my phone giggling to myself

1042
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:50,399
Speaker 4: and it's just like.

1043
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 1: And then like I assume at some point you're like, oh,

1044
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 1: like I'm getting death threats or whatever, because like right,

1045
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 1: because that definitely has happened on more than one to you.

1046
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:01,319
Speaker 2: There was only one point where he was like, do

1047
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 2: we still lock the doors?

1048
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 1: Like you up?

1049
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:06,840
Speaker 3: I lock it up. I lock it up.

1050
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:09,239
Speaker 1: You should get some home alone style traps around your

1051
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:10,879
Speaker 1: house just in case. You never know when these guys

1052
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:12,759
Speaker 1: are going to try to go bust in there, you

1053
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:14,360
Speaker 1: have to hit them with some paint cans or whatever.

1054
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:16,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly all right, Katie.

1055
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 1: Anyhow, thank you for joining me, and I expect that

1056
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 1: you'll be back soon to tell us of your new

1057
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 1: adventures online.

1058
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 2: No response to that, thanks Joss you around.

1059
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 1: Well, that is our show for this week, and I

1060
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 1: think what more can be said? I think Katie has

1061
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 1: said it all, and then I said a little bit

1062
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:43,720
Speaker 1: extra to so I guess there could be more said.

1063
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 3: But you know, I think we're good now. I think

1064
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 3: we've said it all.

1065
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 1: We'll be back next week with more what future, and

1066
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:52,439
Speaker 1: as always, I wish you and your family the very

1067
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:52,800
Speaker 1: best