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Speaker 1: President Trump has made cracking down on illegal immigration a

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Speaker 1: hallmark of his administration. Now he's turning his attention to

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Speaker 1: legal immigration, putting his support behind legislation that would dramatically

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Speaker 1: cut legal immigration levels over the next decade and evaluate

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Speaker 1: visa applications on a points based merit system. This competitive

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Speaker 1: application process will favor applicants who can speak English, financially

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Speaker 1: support themselves and their families, and demonstrate skills that will

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Speaker 1: contribute to our economy. The bill was introduced by Republican

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Speaker 1: Senators David Purdue of Georgia and Tom Cotton of Arkansas

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Speaker 1: in February, but has gained little traction in the Senate.

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Speaker 1: Both Democrats and Republicans criticized it Yesterday. Republican Senator Lindsey

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Speaker 1: Graham of South Carolina said agriculture and tourism are the

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Speaker 1: top two industries in his state and rely on immigrants.

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Speaker 1: You just don't want every Green card holder to be

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Speaker 1: a computer engineer, because the the economy of America is

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Speaker 1: more than just computer and hot tay. The US Chamber

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Speaker 1: of Commerce is cutting legal immigration by half, as this

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Speaker 1: bill would do in about ten years, would do serious

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Speaker 1: damage to the economy. Joining me are Kevin Appleby, Senior

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Speaker 1: director of International Migration Policy at the Center for Migration Studies,

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Speaker 1: and David Beer, immigration policy analyst at the Cato Institute.

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Speaker 1: Kevin explained the changes to the immigration system that this

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Speaker 1: bill would enact well as was mentioned in the prologue there,

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Speaker 1: it would cut legal immigration or green card levels by

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Speaker 1: at least half, if not more, would would severely impact

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Speaker 1: of family units of family immigration as well as employment

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Speaker 1: um and would undercut, certainly undercut our economy growing going forward.

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Speaker 1: It also would reduce refugee admissions to fifty thousand, leaving

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Speaker 1: tens of thousands over the next several years in danger.

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Speaker 1: And it also eliminates a program called the Diversity Visa

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Speaker 1: Lottery program which is enacted in and it would allow

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Speaker 1: our immigrant population to be more diverse from countries that

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Speaker 1: otherwise wouldn't have that opportunity, David, do we heard Senator

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Speaker 1: Graham and immigration advocance also who criticized the proposal, saying

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Speaker 1: that slashing legal immigration would hurt industries such as agriculture

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Speaker 1: and harm the economy because it would result in labor

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Speaker 1: shortages in lower wage jobs that Americans generally don't want.

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Speaker 1: Do you agree with that. Yeah, absolutely, you think it's

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Speaker 1: just completely ignorant to believe that all the jobs in

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Speaker 1: the economy are going to be college educated, college degree

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Speaker 1: holding tight positions. If you get rid of all of

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Speaker 1: the uh maids and get of all the people working

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Speaker 1: in the back of the restaurant, someone's going to have

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Speaker 1: to fill those positions, and you're gonna be really downgrading

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Speaker 1: America's workforce. You're gonna start forcing Americans out of you know,

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Speaker 1: managerial positions and force them to the back of the restaurant,

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Speaker 1: require them to be the dishwasher. You're going to require

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Speaker 1: them to be the cook instead of the guy who's

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Speaker 1: running the business. And so really, the the motivation behind

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Speaker 1: having a system in which all immigrants are college degree

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Speaker 1: holders is really misplaced once you start thinking about how

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Speaker 1: it would actually play out in the real economy. Kevin,

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Speaker 1: can I can I quick just just tow two other

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Speaker 1: trends that really make this the wrong direction. Our population

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Speaker 1: is aging, and the number of US citizens will be

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Speaker 1: at retirement age will double untill over eighties seven million

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Speaker 1: by twenties six. And at the same time, our replacement

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Speaker 1: level we're barely at replacement level in terms of fertility rates.

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Speaker 1: So in terms of US citizen population, we're going to

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Speaker 1: see a gap moving forward, and that will leave a

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Speaker 1: big gap in the workforce as well. And I'll ask

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Speaker 1: this first of you, Kevin, is there any evidence to

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Speaker 1: support the idea that this is going to help the economy.

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Speaker 1: When Stephen Miller, the White House aid was asked this

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Speaker 1: yesterday his he had no response. Well, I mean, there

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Speaker 1: are a couple of studies that have been produced by

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Speaker 1: those who wrote this legislation, restrictionist groups like uh Fair

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Speaker 1: in Numbers USA who draw that conclusion, but more reputable

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Speaker 1: sources such as the National Academy of Sciences and even

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Speaker 1: the Cato Institute have found it then migrants complement the

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Speaker 1: US workforce and helped produce jobs immigrant workers over time,

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Speaker 1: and don't take jobs away for the vast majority of

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Speaker 1: US US citizens. So to say that it's really it's

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Speaker 1: it's based on the whole bill is really based on

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Speaker 1: a faulty premise, because that's really not the case. I've

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Speaker 1: been talking with Kevin Appleby, senior director of International Migration

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Speaker 1: Policy at the Center for Migration Studies, and David Beer,

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Speaker 1: immigration policy analysts at the Cato Institute, about the immigration

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Speaker 1: bill that President Trump is supporting. It was introduced originally

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Speaker 1: by two Republican senators in February, and this bill would

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Speaker 1: award points. It's a merit based system, award points based

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Speaker 1: on education, ability to speak English, high paying job offers, age,

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Speaker 1: record of achievement, and entrepreneurial initiative. David, it sounds so

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Speaker 1: fluid and unstructured, sort of like being graded in school.

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Speaker 1: You never know how the teacher is going to go.

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Speaker 1: How would like the record of achievement be measured? And

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Speaker 1: suppose you have an immigration officer grades on a curve. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's a really strange system. And um, it really should

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Speaker 1: be first stated that the bill does not increased skilled

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Speaker 1: immigration at all. There are no more visas in this bill,

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Speaker 1: uh for people coming to work in the United States

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Speaker 1: than under current laws. So it's just wrong to characterize

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Speaker 1: this bill as being a prioritization of skilled people. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It just create a new way to select them, and

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Speaker 1: that way is very strange. So you know, for example, uh,

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Speaker 1: simply being aged six is worth nearly twice as much

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Speaker 1: as being an entrepreneur who invests one point for a

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Speaker 1: million dollars in their US business. Um. So the calculation

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Speaker 1: that they're trying to do here really doesn't accord with

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Speaker 1: what we would consider merit in a purely economic sense

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Speaker 1: of the word. And I was mentioned a Pew Research Center.

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Speaker 1: It said that in immigrants who arrived in the past

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Speaker 1: five years held a college degree that's much higher than

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Speaker 1: the of non immigrants in the US, and eighteen percent

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Speaker 1: held an advanced degree, also much higher than the US average. So, Kevin,

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Speaker 1: what is the point of this system, this bill? Um,

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Speaker 1: It's it's really unclear. Um. The President mentioned Canada and Australia. Well,

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Speaker 1: we're not Canada last time I checked the map, and

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Speaker 1: we're certainly not Australia. And he's trying to put their

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Speaker 1: system and impose it on an economy that's one of

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Speaker 1: the largest economy in the world and the most diverse

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Speaker 1: economy in the world, where you can't just have one

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Speaker 1: size sets all. So it's really a head scratcher in

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Speaker 1: a lot of ways. I think, frankly, it's driven by ideology, um,

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Speaker 1: by some in the administration who basically want to limit

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Speaker 1: the number of immigrants that come here and want to

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Speaker 1: limit the type of immigrants that want to come here.

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Speaker 1: I think that's really what's behind this legislation. Well, yesterday

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Speaker 1: President Trump also said they're not going to come in

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Speaker 1: and immediately go and collect welfare. But under a welfare

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Speaker 1: reform bill signed by Bill Clinton, legal immigrants are already

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Speaker 1: barred from receiving government benefits for five years or longer. David,

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Speaker 1: what happens to For example, the Trump organization has asked

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Speaker 1: for dozens of H two B visas for foreign workers

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Speaker 1: at two of Trump's private clubs in Florida, including Themorrow

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Speaker 1: Lago Resort. What about those kinds of visas that are

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Speaker 1: they affected by this? No, this really only deals with

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Speaker 1: people who are coming to the country permanently for permanent residencies,

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Speaker 1: So it doesn't affect those guest worker visas that the

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Speaker 1: Trump organization has used in the past, and Trump, to

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Speaker 1: his credit, actually defended his use of those visas UH

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Speaker 1: during his campaign during a primary debate. In fact, so Uh,

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Speaker 1: he understands that the economy does need immigrants, but perhaps

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Speaker 1: he only understands it on behalf of his individual businesses

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Speaker 1: rather than taking overall of you of the economy and

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Speaker 1: understanding that other businesses would also have needs for more

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Speaker 1: longer term UH positions. Um Kevin, what is going to

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Speaker 1: happen in for example, there was a lot of other

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of other priorities for the president

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Speaker 1: and Congress. Is this Does this bill have any chance

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Speaker 1: of going forward? Well, any bill that's in Congress has

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Speaker 1: some percentage of chance, but um, and you have to

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Speaker 1: always prepare that a bill like this could move either

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Speaker 1: on a opriations bill or there may be momentum towards

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Speaker 1: some sort of immigration package which includes, for example, the

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Speaker 1: Dream Act. And of course the administration and the sponsors

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Speaker 1: would insist on some of the provisions of this bill.

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Speaker 1: But as you said, there's a full plate in Congress.

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Speaker 1: There's not a big appetite for immigration reform right now,

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Speaker 1: so and they've got big budget issues, so I think,

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Speaker 1: you know they won't turn to this anytime soon, and

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Speaker 1: then you come to the mid terms. I don't think

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Speaker 1: the likely it is high that this is going to

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Speaker 1: see the light of the day. But you know, you

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Speaker 1: never say never. You always have to be vigilant about

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Speaker 1: these types of things that may move when you don't

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Speaker 1: expect them. And David, what's your take on whether or

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Speaker 1: not this is going to move forward? Well, I don't

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Speaker 1: see any Democrats signing on to this. So as long

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Speaker 1: as the filibuster remains in effect, Uh, you're not gonna

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Speaker 1: see this bill moving forward in the Senate. And you've

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Speaker 1: had several Republicans already criticize it. Uh, So you know,

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Speaker 1: the idea that it's going to move forward in its

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Speaker 1: current form at ly uh is very small. And also, Kevin,

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Speaker 1: there were business groups and the US Chamber of Commerce

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Speaker 1: in particular, saying it would do serious damage to the economy.

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Speaker 1: Which groups are there that are supporting this? In about

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Speaker 1: thirty seconds, well, I think the restrictionist groups are supporting it. UM,

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Speaker 1: the Federation of Americans, Immigration Reform Numbers USA. UM, you

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Speaker 1: know the groups that Steve Bannon associates with who basically

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Speaker 1: just want lower levels of immigrants in the country, and

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Speaker 1: and they're looking to create a system that deports a

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Speaker 1: large number of immigrants. That they're they're really the forces

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Speaker 1: behind it. But I otherwise I don't see other groups

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Speaker 1: come out and have supported this this film all right,

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Speaker 1: Thank you both, including business, Thank you both being here.

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Speaker 1: Kevin Applebe, Senior director of International Migration Policy at the

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Speaker 1: Center from Migration Studies and dated Theer Immigration Policy Analysts

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Speaker 1: at the Cato Institute