WEBVTT - Your Dead Grandma Says Hi: Sylvia Browne

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<v Speaker 1>Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio, Zarin Elizabeth.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm doing Wow. How about you good?

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<v Speaker 3>I'm hanging in there. Tell you do you know what's ridiculous?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh girl?

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<v Speaker 2>Do I imagine taking a Ford Taurus okay and a

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<v Speaker 2>Volkswagen passaty filling them with like foam, like you know,

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<v Speaker 2>like industrial pham or like you know, the stuff you'd

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<v Speaker 2>put in like say, like that phone exactly like really.

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<v Speaker 3>Highly the kind of fans and.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly now, in nineteen ninety nine, the Amareadi brothers did

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<v Speaker 2>exactly that, and they brought a friend with them. So

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<v Speaker 2>two brothers and their friend, They're filled up cars with

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<v Speaker 2>this foam and also like you know, I don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>a bunch of other types of phone, maybe a couple

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<v Speaker 2>for ballast.

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<v Speaker 3>And uh.

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<v Speaker 2>They decided to cross from the Canary Islands and then

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<v Speaker 2>they said, we're gonna go to the Caribbean and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>you can kind of float across the Atlantic and part.

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<v Speaker 3>Of the world. I suppose, well they did that.

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<v Speaker 2>It took them one hundred and nineteen days, and they

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<v Speaker 2>floated across the Atlantic in four taurists and folks back

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<v Speaker 2>and filled the phone.

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<v Speaker 3>And they made it and made it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, they they They said that there was all sorts

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<v Speaker 2>of mental strain on this because they had they had

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<v Speaker 2>leave part of the car for them to be inside

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<v Speaker 2>of the wise that they die of exposure.

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<v Speaker 3>And nineteen days. They had to have some room too

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<v Speaker 3>for Yeah, they had some.

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<v Speaker 2>They had mechanical issues too, because you need to navigate

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit right, so they had basically an inboard engine,

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<v Speaker 2>if you will. Generated they got exhausted from like paddling

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<v Speaker 2>and trying to fish along the way.

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<v Speaker 3>They got sick.

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<v Speaker 2>They had all sorts of issues that one would have

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<v Speaker 2>when you're trying to drift across the Atlantic.

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<v Speaker 3>But these three idiots, why did they say? Why? Now

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<v Speaker 3>were they said? Were the cars connected to each other? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they were like running together like a big raft. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>so nineteen ninety nine things were different.

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<v Speaker 3>It was a difference.

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<v Speaker 2>I've my friends that I come up with dumb ideas,

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<v Speaker 2>like you know about me, like making my friend let

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<v Speaker 2>me fly off the top of his Like we see

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<v Speaker 2>a ton of dumb. We never said, you know, we

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<v Speaker 2>should do trying to cross this in a foam filled Volkswagen.

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<v Speaker 3>Wow, So there you go, that's ridiculous.

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<v Speaker 2>Mad ridiculous.

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<v Speaker 3>I just don't know. I don't know why.

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<v Speaker 2>Because they were boys, That's why they could do it.

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<v Speaker 2>They're like, I've got the foam, I've got the Volkswagon.

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<v Speaker 2>He's got a four tourists.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's do this. We got time off, Bob, don't gotta work,

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<v Speaker 3>my god.

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<v Speaker 2>So there you go, Elizabeth.

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<v Speaker 3>That's ridiculous in my world. Don't know what else is ridiculous.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I would love to.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm getting a vision. Yes, I can see that you're

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<v Speaker 3>going to be going to Mars in the next five years. Yes,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm sure of it. What this is Ridiculous Crime A

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<v Speaker 3>podcast about absurd and outrageous caper's heists and cons It's

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<v Speaker 3>always ninety nine percent murder free and one hundred percent ridiculous.

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<v Speaker 3>Do you always leave and then have to come back?

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<v Speaker 3>So I made it?

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<v Speaker 4>You did.

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<v Speaker 3>We've talked about psychics here before.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and psychic detective yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Con artists like that French lady whose name escapes me, Yes,

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<v Speaker 3>and then the other French lady, remember there were two,

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<v Speaker 3>there's two, yeah, and then the TV evangelist guy who

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<v Speaker 3>was sort of like in the making of a psychic,

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<v Speaker 3>And then there were all the ones that you talked

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<v Speaker 3>about who were hunted by the chief hunter of fraud psychics,

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<v Speaker 3>Bob night Guy totally and then also the Psychic Horse,

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<v Speaker 3>the psychic Horse. And I've talked out a skeptic King

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<v Speaker 3>of the skeptics, James Rand.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, amazing Ran, truly the King of Skeptics.

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<v Speaker 3>I can't remember if I said before that I would

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<v Speaker 3>like to be psychic or if I would not want

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<v Speaker 3>to be psychic. I don't remember which one.

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<v Speaker 2>Make your opinion changes on any given day.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, right now I think I want to be psychic. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>because like, I'm so rocked and damaged that I don't

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<v Speaker 3>think there's news that the other realms could deliver to

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<v Speaker 3>me that would be so upsetting as to destroy me.

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<v Speaker 3>I've reached that point.

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<v Speaker 2>So wait, that's what you were worried about being psychic?

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<v Speaker 3>I think so probably. I don't know. I don't remember,

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<v Speaker 3>I don't remember what happens. But right now I'm saying,

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<v Speaker 3>bring it, tell me everything before it happens. And I

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<v Speaker 3>feel like I would I would like to feel like

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<v Speaker 3>I dwell in the liminal space between this world and another.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, Like I like knowing things that other people

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<v Speaker 3>don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>I got a friend is like that, although that's.

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<v Speaker 3>Sort of the delusion behind QAnon. No, like we all

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<v Speaker 3>feel like we know more than others.

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<v Speaker 2>Or that you know, those are slightly different things knowing,

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<v Speaker 2>like what's like between you and the other dimensional realms

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<v Speaker 2>versus inside.

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<v Speaker 3>I like to be behind the curtains. I like to

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<v Speaker 3>know what other people know. And that's kind of like anyway, so.

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<v Speaker 2>You just generally want to know everything. Everything pretty what

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<v Speaker 2>I'm hearing.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, I kind of already do you know, how

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<v Speaker 3>Like I'm always right because even when I'm wrong, I

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<v Speaker 3>know I'm wrong, therefore I'm right. Yeah, well put that's

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<v Speaker 3>how that works. So anyway. Psychics, My current favorite psychic

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<v Speaker 3>is ritasonte Oho Rita is yigonte Rita's gigante. She's on

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<v Speaker 3>Instagram and I highly recommend following her. She's got some

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<v Speaker 3>like psychic self help, scammy feeling stuff. But the best

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<v Speaker 3>of these excursions to places in like the old neighborhood.

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<v Speaker 2>Is her name like Giant Rita Giant. Im just wondering

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<v Speaker 2>I saw.

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<v Speaker 3>Speaking of Instagram, I saw the worst one the other

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<v Speaker 3>day where this lady was making hot dog tacos. But

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<v Speaker 3>aside from that she was wearing a shirt, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>Little Debbie's snack cakes, but it was like an inflated

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<v Speaker 3>version of the goal and it said Big Deborah. And

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<v Speaker 3>I was like mad at myself eating sucked into watching

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<v Speaker 3>her make hot dog tacos. But I was so captivated

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<v Speaker 3>by Big Deborah anyway, So this is a giant Rita.

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<v Speaker 3>So she does like Okay, so she has there's this

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<v Speaker 3>one where she makes morning coffee with a raw egg

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<v Speaker 3>yolk in it. Yeah, I'm a little obsessed with that one.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't what is that she like, she whips up

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<v Speaker 3>an egg yolk sugar in a cup. Yeah, gets it

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<v Speaker 3>like a real light colored right.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure.

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<v Speaker 3>Then she brews coffee on the stovetop and then pours

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<v Speaker 3>coffee in it. She drinks it and she's like mad

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<v Speaker 3>and she throws the spoon. Oh yeah, she throws the

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<v Speaker 3>spoon in the sink. It's so good.

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<v Speaker 2>Vanish with the no no no no so uh Italian.

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<v Speaker 2>That changes things.

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<v Speaker 3>So like, I don't know much about her psychic readings,

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<v Speaker 3>Like you can.

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<v Speaker 2>Book this is the psychic that she drinks the egg yo.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you can book a thirty minute private reading and

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<v Speaker 3>spiritual mentorship with Rita for one hundred and fifty dollars.

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<v Speaker 3>Uh huh, so like a book. My birthday's coming up.

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<v Speaker 3>I feel like she's harmless, right.

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<v Speaker 2>At least be fun that's.

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<v Speaker 3>My psychic reading of the situation. Good. But do you

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<v Speaker 3>know what another fun fact about her?

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<v Speaker 2>Elizabeth, I'm gonna be honest with you. I know zero fun.

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<v Speaker 3>Facts about her. Do you know who her dad is?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. Frank Gagante, Vincent the Chin?

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<v Speaker 3>What the mobster?

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<v Speaker 2>You used to go around in a bathroom to tell

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<v Speaker 2>the feds he was too crazy to.

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<v Speaker 5>Be able to go to court.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, that somehow puts pathectally and I ordered into the chin.

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<v Speaker 2>Gagante is one of my heroes, like he beat the

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<v Speaker 2>Feds by for decades walking around his New York neighborhood

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<v Speaker 2>in the bathroom. And daughter, of course she is. That's amazing.

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<v Speaker 2>Scam on scams on scams.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh my god, I love it so much.

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<v Speaker 2>Tell his story?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, yeah, I've got I'm going to read the book

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<v Speaker 3>her her tales of her dad. Yes, I ordered it

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<v Speaker 3>and I'm going to read it before you.

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<v Speaker 2>Why doesn't she have a reality show's daughter?

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<v Speaker 3>She's got Instagram. She's amazing. She wears like a house dress.

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<v Speaker 2>So she streams on Instagram.

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<v Speaker 3>She's so good and where's house dress? Oh yeah? But

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<v Speaker 3>then other time she dresses like lou Read in New

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<v Speaker 3>York or New Jersey. I think she's in New York.

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<v Speaker 3>She walks around like she goes. They go to like

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<v Speaker 3>Little Lily and go to restaurants, and then like she

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<v Speaker 3>and all her pals and her girlfriend, they sit there

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<v Speaker 3>and they order a bunch of food, and she's like

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<v Speaker 3>this place based vescirl. They do it right. She's fantastic anyway,

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<v Speaker 3>So she's harmless.

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<v Speaker 2>In my book, she's a harmless psychic.

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<v Speaker 3>Car but there are some psychics who are harmful. By

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<v Speaker 3>the way, I'm totally getting you a reading with her

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<v Speaker 3>for your birthday. Oh my god, I'd be like Rida,

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<v Speaker 3>what's gonna happen with my life?

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<v Speaker 2>You can FaceTime her there right, not like you send

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<v Speaker 2>her a question and.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know, I don't know how it works.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't want one of those tarot card things were

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<v Speaker 2>they like, I can hear this from an instance. I

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<v Speaker 2>want you, guys to have.

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<v Speaker 3>I want her to get all upset and go mad on. Yes,

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<v Speaker 3>I love it.

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<v Speaker 2>I want that for you too.

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<v Speaker 3>You know. So the harmful psychics, right, they take people's money,

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<v Speaker 3>but worse is they give them false hope or sometimes

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<v Speaker 3>dash the hopes they had.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they were. They just straight up lie to them

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<v Speaker 2>either way.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and when people are desperate, they're looking for any

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<v Speaker 3>comfort or certainty that they can find, and that's when

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<v Speaker 3>the crimers swoop in and take advantage. Some people won't

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<v Speaker 3>go to therapy, they will go to a psychic exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>So people like old Gal I'm going to tell you

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<v Speaker 3>about today, lady by the name of Sylvia Brown.

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<v Speaker 2>Why is that name familiar?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, Sylvia Brown was absolutely everywhere. She'll ring a bell.

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<v Speaker 3>She was born Sylvia Celeste Shoemaker in nineteen thirty six.

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<v Speaker 2>Like Willi Shoemaker's kid, tell me her father's famous too.

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<v Speaker 3>She made shoes for a living a baby, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>the jockey, Yes, yes, but that was not she was

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<v Speaker 3>not a jockey baby Kansas City, missoo. Okay, So she's

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<v Speaker 3>raised Catholic, but she told people that she had an

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<v Speaker 3>Episcopalian mother, a Lutheran maternal grandmother, a Jewish father, and

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<v Speaker 3>relatives from all these fates. That's a heck of a

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<v Speaker 3>still dead with an episcopalian mom and a Jewish father.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not sure how we get a Catholic but go off.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, I mean unless you want to say, like,

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<v Speaker 2>if it weren't for Henry the Eighth, I would have

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<v Speaker 2>been right.

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<v Speaker 3>But it's like she was born in nineteen thirty.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's not happening.

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<v Speaker 3>So she said, maybe she's want to be like a

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<v Speaker 3>mainline Pierson.

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<v Speaker 2>She's like, you know, I want to be rich.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's basically I'm episcopalian. That's the thing like if

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<v Speaker 3>you yeah, if you're Catholic, but you want to be rich, Yeah, exactly,

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<v Speaker 3>you wear a boiled old jacket. You just head of

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<v Speaker 3>off to Talbot's. So she said that she became aware

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<v Speaker 3>of her psychic abilities very early in childhood. She's three

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<v Speaker 3>years old.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, look at her.

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<v Speaker 3>And apparently her grandma is also a.

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<v Speaker 2>Psychon see a nap in my future.

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<v Speaker 3>If you don't give me a lollipop. Her grandma's a

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<v Speaker 3>psychic naturally, and she guided young Sylvia and understanding her powers.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it skips a generation. I'm just making that.

0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:19.560
<v Speaker 3>Out for sure. There was another psychic in the family,

0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:22.560
<v Speaker 3>her great uncle. He was a psychic medium and also

0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:24.160
<v Speaker 3>super into UFOs.

0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:25.800
<v Speaker 2>They do kind of go hand in hand.

0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:30.280
<v Speaker 3>She leaned a lot on this lore of family psychic ability.

0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:34.360
<v Speaker 2>By the way, just real quick, since the uncle likes aliens, right,

0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:37.200
<v Speaker 2>and isn't this being a psychic. Do you think he

0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:41.760
<v Speaker 2>believed that aliens had angels too, So there's like alien angels. Oh,

0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:44.200
<v Speaker 2>probably he's just got a full like almost like a

0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:47.200
<v Speaker 2>Hindu level of dt supernatural.

0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:49.920
<v Speaker 3>Yes, that must be fun. Sure, just having such a

0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:55.000
<v Speaker 3>big world, it's just boundless and anyone can take you

0:11:55.040 --> 0:12:00.600
<v Speaker 3>in the night. So she would tell everyone went about

0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:03.480
<v Speaker 3>like this family history. I bet to prove that she's

0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:07.160
<v Speaker 3>the real deal. But the spirits had chosen her at

0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:09.760
<v Speaker 3>a young age. She comes from this long line of seers.

0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:13.200
<v Speaker 3>At some point she moved to California, because we attract

0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:18.600
<v Speaker 3>all the cooks down to California. We are cooks, the

0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:21.280
<v Speaker 3>weirdos at the edge of the continent. So she married

0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:24.599
<v Speaker 3>a couple of times. She had two sons. One of them, Christopher,

0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:28.520
<v Speaker 3>grew up to be a psychic too. Naturally, Christopher, and

0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:31.880
<v Speaker 3>it was sometime early in the nineteen seventies that she

0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:36.200
<v Speaker 3>started working professionally as a psychic. To be exact, it

0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:39.600
<v Speaker 3>was May eighth, nineteen seventy three. Wow that when she

0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:43.280
<v Speaker 3>did a small reading in a private home. Boom, psychic done.

0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:46.440
<v Speaker 2>So she's doing like psychic tupperware parties in the seventies.

0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:50.080
<v Speaker 3>Yes, chef, pamper chef. You have to get at least

0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:53.840
<v Speaker 3>one reading and bring a friend. She grew her brand,

0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:57.200
<v Speaker 3>as they would say, and she did these paid readings,

0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:01.319
<v Speaker 3>she did lectures, she published books, she gained more notoriety,

0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:04.640
<v Speaker 3>she held larger events and got like bigger book publishing deals.

0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:07.120
<v Speaker 3>Good for her, I know. So she starts this business

0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:11.000
<v Speaker 3>called Nirvana Foundation for Psychic Research in nineteen seventy four,

0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:14.559
<v Speaker 3>just one year after she went pro fast. Yeah, so

0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:19.520
<v Speaker 3>she established it to provide professional licensed framework for her

0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:22.000
<v Speaker 3>psychic clairvoyant and counseling services.

0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:24.480
<v Speaker 2>But if she established it, who's doing the licensing. She's

0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:30.319
<v Speaker 2>licensing just the Licensing Bureau, licensing registered bond.

0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:33.240
<v Speaker 3>I've heard on one thing how they were saying she

0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:35.880
<v Speaker 3>was like as one of her bona fides, she's a

0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:41.480
<v Speaker 3>member of the Better Business Bureau. So take that, okay, chamber,

0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:50.040
<v Speaker 3>watch out, buddy BBB. So totally, so she she's like

0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:53.560
<v Speaker 3>keeping it on the up and up. This Nirvana Foundation.

0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:57.600
<v Speaker 3>They held meetings, they had a newsletter, and basically legitimized

0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:01.600
<v Speaker 3>her work from private homes to public events. I took

0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:05.320
<v Speaker 3>a look at the March nineteen seventy eight newsletter for

0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:09.240
<v Speaker 3>the Nirvana Foundation Please Share. The cover says, the way

0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:11.760
<v Speaker 3>of all peace is to scale the mountain of self.

0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:15.600
<v Speaker 3>The love of others makes the climb down easier. That's

0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:17.960
<v Speaker 3>actually not that's easier just to fall down the hill.

0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:20.640
<v Speaker 2>But that's actually not bad. Sure, I mean, like, master

0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:22.880
<v Speaker 2>yourself and then you can easily walk down to.

0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:25.480
<v Speaker 3>Others and you can step on people. We're here in

0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:27.200
<v Speaker 3>the valley, I love you.

0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:28.520
<v Speaker 2>Our mountains are much lower.

0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:32.480
<v Speaker 3>Then then there's like so it's this mimeograph like blurry

0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:36.320
<v Speaker 3>black and white photo of Sylvia and her husband dal Oh, right,

0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:44.360
<v Speaker 3>that's short for Kenzil Dalzel brown. What kenzled Kenzil Dalzel brown.

0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:45.359
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:51.240
<v Speaker 3>And at the end of their names at this point, it's.

0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:53.040
<v Speaker 2>Just brown brown, like the color.

0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:58.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but they're both white. I guess that it's.

0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:04.040
<v Speaker 2>So even though I had kenzl whatever. But I was like, no,

0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:05.960
<v Speaker 2>that's that's that's still a white name. I can tell.

0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:10.000
<v Speaker 3>So it's a twenty page booklet with a message from Sylvia,

0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:13.560
<v Speaker 3>notes from Dal because he's the president. There's some data

0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:17.400
<v Speaker 3>on ESP test scores from the staff what, and then

0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:18.800
<v Speaker 3>some stuff about pyramids.

0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:20.400
<v Speaker 2>How do you even compare test scores?

0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:23.720
<v Speaker 3>I don't know, it's I couldn't. I started seeing charts

0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:26.360
<v Speaker 3>and numbers, and like my I just I fell asleep

0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:27.720
<v Speaker 3>and I woke up and it was sixties.

0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:29.680
<v Speaker 2>I guess you got a certify it somehow.

0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:34.680
<v Speaker 3>You do the pyramid stuff. Yeah, a poem by Sylvia

0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:37.040
<v Speaker 3>that I really want to read to you in its entirety,

0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:39.160
<v Speaker 3>but I won't. But let me just give you a

0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:45.480
<v Speaker 3>couple of stanzas. Yeah, it's called Soulmate, Waiting and Boiling

0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:50.680
<v Speaker 3>your Love over a shut up. Let me read this

0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:53.320
<v Speaker 3>beautiful piece of literature, and I'm going to read it

0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:55.960
<v Speaker 3>like as if it's a you know, I'm going by

0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:59.280
<v Speaker 3>the line breaks and everything. I'm putting my all into

0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:02.080
<v Speaker 3>this buckle up. I'm doing it for the spirits and

0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:02.720
<v Speaker 3>the angels.

0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:03.520
<v Speaker 2>You didn't let me know.

0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:11.080
<v Speaker 3>Waiting and boiling your love over a cauldron of dying embers,

0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:17.040
<v Speaker 3>fragmented images come back in the hallowed halls of my mind,

0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:22.080
<v Speaker 3>belonging to the you and I of us a small

0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:26.880
<v Speaker 3>glimpse of what it was before the world beyond a

0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:32.040
<v Speaker 3>reflection that is not a reflection. The glass shatters, and

0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:35.800
<v Speaker 3>you and I move on towards the permanency of togetherness.

0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:42.160
<v Speaker 3>Here we are like fragile butterflies caught in a hand

0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:49.000
<v Speaker 3>of time, beating wildly to be free in thee. Write

0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:51.840
<v Speaker 3>that in a card and try and go woo, some fella.

0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:55.480
<v Speaker 2>That is really what that's like. You get fired at

0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:56.440
<v Speaker 2>a gift card company.

0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:01.800
<v Speaker 3>We love over a cauldron. I'm dying, embers, I'm gonna

0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:06.320
<v Speaker 3>boil your loves oil. Careful, lookt sir. I don't know

0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:08.280
<v Speaker 3>about you, but I just can't take it. So anyway,

0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:12.200
<v Speaker 3>there's membership information on the back of the newsletter. An

0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:16.080
<v Speaker 3>individual lifetime membership was three hundred and fifty bucks and

0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:19.160
<v Speaker 3>twenty twenty six dollars. That's a little over seventeen hundred

0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:23.280
<v Speaker 3>dollars annually fifty bucks, which is like two fifty today.

0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:26.240
<v Speaker 3>So it's not cheap as far as subscriptions or memberships go.

0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:26.960
<v Speaker 2>None at all.

0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.640
<v Speaker 3>It's good for them, I say, right, that's so good.

0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:32.040
<v Speaker 3>So she's got that going on. And this is the

0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:35.840
<v Speaker 3>beginning of when James Randy started looking into Sylvia Brown

0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:36.400
<v Speaker 3>in her work.

0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:39.080
<v Speaker 2>He was done with Uri Geller. He's like, I need someone.

0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:42.159
<v Speaker 3>Else fresh meat. Much more on that later. So a

0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:46.119
<v Speaker 3>decade after starting the Nirvana Foundations, she got wise. I

0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:48.160
<v Speaker 3>think she figured out that there was a better, more

0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:51.800
<v Speaker 3>tax exempt way to do things, so she started a

0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:55.560
<v Speaker 3>church for In April of nineteen eighty six, she founded

0:17:55.600 --> 0:18:00.440
<v Speaker 3>a gnostic church called the Society of Novus Spiritus A gnostic. Yes,

0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:02.280
<v Speaker 3>of course she picked that up. Yes, so this is

0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:05.440
<v Speaker 3>like the center point of her identity as a spiritual teacher,

0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:08.320
<v Speaker 3>not just like a TV psychic. The church is still

0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:10.320
<v Speaker 3>around from their website.

0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:11.680
<v Speaker 2>Good Churches Never die.

0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:16.480
<v Speaker 3>Elizabeth Novus is Sylvia's monument to God, a forum to

0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:19.879
<v Speaker 3>express the joy and love that is God, with no fear,

0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:23.080
<v Speaker 3>no guilt, no sin, no hell, and no Satan.

0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:24.240
<v Speaker 2>No taxes.

0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:29.320
<v Speaker 3>Through Novice or Novs whichever, Sylvia gives the world a

0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:32.320
<v Speaker 3>means to understand God, life and the reason for being

0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:37.119
<v Speaker 3>all right. So there are twenty one tenants of the church.

0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:40.520
<v Speaker 3>I will not read all of them.

0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:41.680
<v Speaker 2>Do you have any highlights?

0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:44.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? Tenant one quote, the way of all peace is

0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:47.040
<v Speaker 3>to scale the mountain of self. I still like that

0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:49.920
<v Speaker 3>loving others makes the climb down easier, but then it

0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:54.479
<v Speaker 3>keeps going. We see all things darkly until love lights

0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:59.280
<v Speaker 3>the lamp of the soul poetry. Yeah, it's a crotch tingler.

0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:03.400
<v Speaker 3>You get the picture. Do they they do dream analysis

0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:06.000
<v Speaker 3>via a phone or Skype? Is that still a thing? So?

0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:06.760
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:10.200
<v Speaker 3>Twenty minute sessions start at forty nine dollars. There's an

0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:14.440
<v Speaker 3>online shop that only accepts paypaler Venmo, and you can

0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:16.800
<v Speaker 3>donate money to them on the website and they take

0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:17.800
<v Speaker 3>zel for that.

0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:20.600
<v Speaker 2>I figured they maybe must also take crypto, like we'll

0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:22.720
<v Speaker 2>take a stable coin or bitcoin.

0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:25.320
<v Speaker 3>Maybe not yet though, these guys are operating in the

0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:28.840
<v Speaker 3>PayPal Oh wow. Okay, So now she's got the foundation

0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:31.480
<v Speaker 3>in the church and she and her husband decided to

0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:35.440
<v Speaker 3>do some non psychic scamming. So, according to a detailed

0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:39.680
<v Speaker 3>case summary published by the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry, Sylvia

0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:42.760
<v Speaker 3>and dal were involved in selling interest in a gold

0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:48.640
<v Speaker 3>mining venture in the late eighties. So the venture failed, no,

0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:51.879
<v Speaker 3>and bankruptcy was declared in nineteen eighty eight. So I

0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:56.439
<v Speaker 3>guess it didn't pan out. Oh oh you do it?

0:19:57.240 --> 0:19:59.480
<v Speaker 2>Are psychics? Good at finding gold? Is that like a

0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:03.800
<v Speaker 2>thing that is that more likely you're a diviner and

0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:05.920
<v Speaker 2>you're like, fine, gold, Well.

0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:08.000
<v Speaker 3>Let's let's take a break because we're not done with

0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:08.800
<v Speaker 3>the gold thing.

0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:09.600
<v Speaker 2>I didn't think so.

0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:34.240
<v Speaker 3>We never would be be right back, Zarenizabeth. Okay. So

0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:38.720
<v Speaker 3>Sylvia Brown and her husband Dal, they sold interest in

0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:43.240
<v Speaker 3>a gold mining venture. It fails, they declared bankruptcy. That

0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:47.879
<v Speaker 3>was nineteen eighty eight. In nineteen ninety two, Sylvia and

0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:51.720
<v Speaker 3>Dal were accused of illegally selling securities that had not

0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:55.520
<v Speaker 3>been registered at the State of California, and there were

0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:59.760
<v Speaker 3>charges of misrepresentations grand theft. Dal caught an additional fraud

0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:02.879
<v Speaker 3>chart charge. So, according to the criminal complaint, the Browns

0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:06.800
<v Speaker 3>hustled a twenty thousand dollars investment in their gold mining

0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:10.879
<v Speaker 3>venture by misrepresenting the financial status of the company. And

0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:14.760
<v Speaker 3>we've seen that many times. It's going the financials. Yeah,

0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:18.920
<v Speaker 3>it's happening as we speak. However, they weren't just trying

0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:21.200
<v Speaker 3>to inflate the value of a company that they knew

0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:23.240
<v Speaker 3>had legs and just needed to get off the ground.

0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:27.120
<v Speaker 3>And we're looking for like an angel investor. No, yeah,

0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:30.520
<v Speaker 3>so they picked a hit or miss industry on purpose,

0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:34.359
<v Speaker 3>I think, and instead of using the money for operating expenses,

0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:36.640
<v Speaker 3>they used most of it to pay off their personal

0:21:36.720 --> 0:21:41.840
<v Speaker 3>and corporate debt corporate meaning Nirvana Foundation, not the mining interest.

0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:45.960
<v Speaker 3>So a few weeks later, back in eighty eight, after

0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:51.000
<v Speaker 3>they declared bankruptcy, they they didn't tell the investor ever,

0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:55.239
<v Speaker 3>So it's a big nope on that, yes, yeah, and

0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:58.520
<v Speaker 3>so you have to give your list of creditors. Yeah.

0:21:58.560 --> 0:22:00.879
<v Speaker 3>They also told the investor the his money would be

0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:04.280
<v Speaker 3>recovered when the mining equipment was sold. That was false.

0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:07.480
<v Speaker 3>In ninety three they so you flash forward when all

0:22:07.520 --> 0:22:10.679
<v Speaker 3>this goes through legal they plead no contest to a

0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:14.960
<v Speaker 3>felony violation of sale of securities without permit. So they

0:22:15.000 --> 0:22:17.800
<v Speaker 3>paid restitution. They get sentenced. Both have to serve a

0:22:17.880 --> 0:22:21.520
<v Speaker 3>year on probation. Sylvia has to do two hundred hours

0:22:21.520 --> 0:22:25.040
<v Speaker 3>of community service as probably that's probably what she did

0:22:26.040 --> 0:22:29.199
<v Speaker 3>well through her church. Dal he gets sentenced to one

0:22:29.280 --> 0:22:34.000
<v Speaker 3>hundred days in county jail. I should note that Sylvia

0:22:34.200 --> 0:22:37.520
<v Speaker 3>divorced Dal in eighty eight around the time of the bankruptcy,

0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:40.560
<v Speaker 3>kept his last name but added an E at the end.

0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:44.320
<v Speaker 3>Who knows whatever, but yeah, so she's Sylvia Brown.

0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:46.000
<v Speaker 2>Upgrade it now.

0:22:46.119 --> 0:22:47.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, She's like, I just want a little bit of

0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:51.680
<v Speaker 3>the on the end. But so by the nineteen nineties,

0:22:52.440 --> 0:22:57.159
<v Speaker 3>Sylvia Brown is this recurring fixture on major TV talk shows,

0:22:57.280 --> 0:23:03.560
<v Speaker 3>especially The Montel Williams Show and Larry King Love Yes, Yes, Okay.

0:23:03.720 --> 0:23:08.920
<v Speaker 3>She's really popular for her like dead pans, smokers, gravel voice,

0:23:09.520 --> 0:23:13.119
<v Speaker 3>no nonsense. So I watched an episode of Montel with

0:23:13.200 --> 0:23:16.760
<v Speaker 3>her on it, and it was really, I have no idea,

0:23:16.800 --> 0:23:19.520
<v Speaker 3>you know how. I don't like watching videos I watched.

0:23:20.000 --> 0:23:23.040
<v Speaker 3>I watched so many videos for this, and I listened

0:23:23.080 --> 0:23:27.040
<v Speaker 3>to so many radio shows. Really it gets worse. So

0:23:27.920 --> 0:23:30.800
<v Speaker 3>but the episode was interesting because like audience members would

0:23:30.800 --> 0:23:33.680
<v Speaker 3>ask questions and it felt like she would just say

0:23:33.800 --> 0:23:36.080
<v Speaker 3>whatever came into her head okay, And I was like,

0:23:38.160 --> 0:23:40.640
<v Speaker 3>she's just she's just riffing. She's jazz and I could

0:23:40.680 --> 0:23:42.840
<v Speaker 3>do this and that smoker's croak yeah, because a lot

0:23:42.880 --> 0:23:44.120
<v Speaker 3>of it's like you take a look at the person,

0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:45.399
<v Speaker 3>You're like, oh, I totally know what I can do.

0:23:46.800 --> 0:23:49.399
<v Speaker 3>A lot of times though the reaction of the person

0:23:49.520 --> 0:23:51.679
<v Speaker 3>asking her the question made it clear that she was

0:23:51.720 --> 0:23:54.679
<v Speaker 3>off the mark. So like a woman was like you know,

0:23:54.680 --> 0:23:57.040
<v Speaker 3>I've lost some people recently and I want to know

0:23:57.080 --> 0:24:01.240
<v Speaker 3>if they're okay. And Sylvia Brown's like, it was the

0:24:01.280 --> 0:24:04.399
<v Speaker 3>woman who was very round, and the lady just looks blank,

0:24:04.480 --> 0:24:06.720
<v Speaker 3>like I don't have no idea which talk about. And

0:24:06.800 --> 0:24:08.480
<v Speaker 3>so she's like, you know, the woman who always wore

0:24:08.520 --> 0:24:12.520
<v Speaker 3>an apron. The lady's just like, okay, no, and she's like,

0:24:12.600 --> 0:24:16.399
<v Speaker 3>you the round woman. She smells like talcum powder or lavender, nothing,

0:24:16.880 --> 0:24:19.080
<v Speaker 3>and she's like, well, she's not like round round. She

0:24:19.119 --> 0:24:21.040
<v Speaker 3>just has a soft face. And then the lady like

0:24:21.119 --> 0:24:23.080
<v Speaker 3>kind of slightly reacts, and then they cut to the

0:24:23.080 --> 0:24:26.160
<v Speaker 3>next person. Really oh yeah, and she's like, she's fine,

0:24:26.200 --> 0:24:26.800
<v Speaker 3>she loves you.

0:24:26.960 --> 0:24:29.080
<v Speaker 2>Turns out she lost like three guys who.

0:24:28.920 --> 0:24:30.760
<v Speaker 3>Are all I think. So she's like, I've never met

0:24:30.880 --> 0:24:33.320
<v Speaker 3>another woman in my life, and I have no mother.

0:24:33.400 --> 0:24:36.600
<v Speaker 3>I was grown in a lab and so anyway, I

0:24:36.640 --> 0:24:38.760
<v Speaker 3>may have been born at night, but it wasn't last night.

0:24:38.840 --> 0:24:41.600
<v Speaker 3>So it's obvious this woman's just winging it, right. So

0:24:41.800 --> 0:24:44.920
<v Speaker 3>they they had taped segments with people who had questions

0:24:44.960 --> 0:24:47.199
<v Speaker 3>but were also in the audience, but it was like

0:24:47.240 --> 0:24:51.520
<v Speaker 3>a longer like backstory thing. One young woman said that

0:24:51.600 --> 0:24:54.440
<v Speaker 3>a spirit that looked like a giant monster man threw

0:24:54.480 --> 0:24:57.680
<v Speaker 3>her against across her dorm room and held her down

0:24:58.280 --> 0:25:00.560
<v Speaker 3>and then tossed her onto the other bed and she

0:25:00.680 --> 0:25:02.240
<v Speaker 3>was able to get the light on, but there was

0:25:02.280 --> 0:25:05.080
<v Speaker 3>no one there, like Exorcistyle Well, and I'm like, okay,

0:25:05.080 --> 0:25:07.920
<v Speaker 3>you had sleep paralysis and you might have a seizure disorder.

0:25:08.080 --> 0:25:10.520
<v Speaker 3>Oh but you know, like the sleep paralysis thing, like

0:25:10.560 --> 0:25:13.240
<v Speaker 3>being held down. I'm like, if anyone's ever had that,

0:25:13.240 --> 0:25:17.360
<v Speaker 3>that's what that is. I'm unfamiliar the worst with ghosts,

0:25:17.480 --> 0:25:22.720
<v Speaker 3>you know. Yeah, And because like the first thing Sylvia

0:25:22.760 --> 0:25:26.280
<v Speaker 3>Brown says is like go to a doctor. She's like, oh,

0:25:26.400 --> 0:25:31.119
<v Speaker 3>it's the you know, it's your great grandfather exactly. The

0:25:31.160 --> 0:25:35.040
<v Speaker 3>first thing was like go to a doctor. And like

0:25:35.160 --> 0:25:38.399
<v Speaker 3>her explanation though, was that spirits don't physically throw people.

0:25:38.480 --> 0:25:39.240
<v Speaker 2>That was my thought.

0:25:39.359 --> 0:25:43.000
<v Speaker 3>But here's my favorite. Montel backs that statement up by

0:25:43.040 --> 0:25:45.480
<v Speaker 3>saying that, you know, if they could throw people, the

0:25:45.600 --> 0:25:48.240
<v Speaker 3>victims of nine to eleven would throw Osama bin Laden

0:25:48.280 --> 0:25:49.160
<v Speaker 3>down the stairs.

0:25:49.480 --> 0:25:51.560
<v Speaker 2>Wow, the former marine really jumped out there.

0:25:51.840 --> 0:25:55.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. But Sylvia's advice is like spot on, and she's like,

0:25:55.359 --> 0:25:58.600
<v Speaker 3>I think you might have PTSD from something so okay,

0:25:58.800 --> 0:26:03.760
<v Speaker 3>you know, harmless and only mildly entertaining, Like it was

0:26:03.800 --> 0:26:06.800
<v Speaker 3>basically everyone in the show is asking about family or

0:26:06.840 --> 0:26:10.600
<v Speaker 3>friends who had died in car accidents. The time period,

0:26:10.640 --> 0:26:14.800
<v Speaker 3>it was weird, like I guess everyone's having car accidents

0:26:14.960 --> 0:26:18.040
<v Speaker 3>and saying like, are they okay, well they're dead people

0:26:18.119 --> 0:26:21.040
<v Speaker 3>like you know, but do they want to tell me anything?

0:26:21.240 --> 0:26:23.479
<v Speaker 3>And every single time she's just like, they love you,

0:26:23.560 --> 0:26:26.200
<v Speaker 3>and they're they're happy for you, and they're proud and

0:26:26.240 --> 0:26:29.160
<v Speaker 3>they didn't want to leave. But it was depressing because

0:26:29.160 --> 0:26:31.320
<v Speaker 3>there's all these like poor suffering people and she just

0:26:31.400 --> 0:26:34.240
<v Speaker 3>shuffles around and the answers until she hit something that works.

0:26:34.280 --> 0:26:37.000
<v Speaker 2>She ever goes to anything specific, like they missed the

0:26:37.000 --> 0:26:38.360
<v Speaker 2>bowling leave Yeah, no.

0:26:38.160 --> 0:26:41.639
<v Speaker 3>No, And she's it's just you're just watching someone bs people.

0:26:42.200 --> 0:26:44.639
<v Speaker 3>And if you want to see that, watch me at

0:26:44.640 --> 0:26:46.560
<v Speaker 3>a party where I don't know anyone, but I still

0:26:46.560 --> 0:26:48.240
<v Speaker 3>have to make small talk. That's me.

0:26:48.520 --> 0:26:51.640
<v Speaker 2>I'm still browned a party.

0:26:52.560 --> 0:26:55.119
<v Speaker 3>So like apparently though, right now she's having a bit

0:26:55.160 --> 0:27:00.280
<v Speaker 3>of a renaissance online on TikTok. Yeah, they've stumbled these

0:27:00.280 --> 0:27:04.399
<v Speaker 3>clips of her on Montel and stuff. Mystified by the

0:27:04.480 --> 0:27:08.840
<v Speaker 3>brusque delivery because she's cold blood. She's like, he doesn't care,

0:27:09.160 --> 0:27:11.080
<v Speaker 3>like she just says, you know, and is she smoking

0:27:11.160 --> 0:27:13.720
<v Speaker 3>on the no, But it sounds like she just stubbed

0:27:13.800 --> 0:27:17.040
<v Speaker 3>one out. So I told you how she went on Montel.

0:27:17.400 --> 0:27:20.240
<v Speaker 3>She was also a frequent guest on that AM radio

0:27:20.280 --> 0:27:23.800
<v Speaker 3>show Coast to Coast with Art Bell. Yeah, that's back

0:27:23.800 --> 0:27:26.080
<v Speaker 3>when it was hosted by Art Bell. George Norri took

0:27:26.119 --> 0:27:27.679
<v Speaker 3>it over in two thousand and three, and she was

0:27:27.720 --> 0:27:30.760
<v Speaker 3>on then too, or on that later I like George.

0:27:31.040 --> 0:27:36.640
<v Speaker 3>Her publishing career scaled alongside this visibility publishing career. Yeah,

0:27:36.640 --> 0:27:40.520
<v Speaker 3>so she had all these big best sellers, Adventures of

0:27:40.520 --> 0:27:44.560
<v Speaker 3>a Psychic The Other Side and Back. So both of

0:27:44.560 --> 0:27:45.040
<v Speaker 3>those did.

0:27:45.080 --> 0:27:48.800
<v Speaker 2>She got into our you know, I'm a Convict book club,

0:27:48.800 --> 0:27:49.920
<v Speaker 2>but only off of probation.

0:27:50.080 --> 0:27:51.919
<v Speaker 3>She didn't even have to go to jail and the

0:27:51.920 --> 0:27:55.080
<v Speaker 3>community service. Good for her, Good for her. So those

0:27:55.160 --> 0:28:01.720
<v Speaker 3>those two books outlined her abilities the spirit guide system cosmology,

0:28:02.359 --> 0:28:04.200
<v Speaker 3>and they did, you know, they did really well. I

0:28:04.280 --> 0:28:08.119
<v Speaker 3>bet they were published by hay House and her author

0:28:08.160 --> 0:28:11.320
<v Speaker 3>biography there describes her as a New York Times best

0:28:11.359 --> 0:28:14.840
<v Speaker 3>selling author with quote numerous popular books. They said that

0:28:14.880 --> 0:28:17.000
<v Speaker 3>she twenty two of which have appeared on the New

0:28:17.080 --> 0:28:19.280
<v Speaker 3>York Times bestseller list. Twenty two.

0:28:19.359 --> 0:28:21.600
<v Speaker 2>Does the New York Times ever sue anyone for saying

0:28:21.640 --> 0:28:23.680
<v Speaker 2>I was on New York Times bestseller.

0:28:23.400 --> 0:28:26.639
<v Speaker 3>Telling people all ninety seven books of mine.

0:28:26.800 --> 0:28:29.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so the swores wrote a postcard that was on

0:28:29.200 --> 0:28:31.120
<v Speaker 2>the New York Times bestseller list.

0:28:31.760 --> 0:28:33.879
<v Speaker 3>The more she got out there, the more she was

0:28:33.920 --> 0:28:37.040
<v Speaker 3>asked about high profile stuff. Oh and like you can

0:28:37.200 --> 0:28:40.920
<v Speaker 3>only watch her talk about people's dead grandmas for so long,

0:28:41.200 --> 0:28:44.520
<v Speaker 3>he asking her, did do it? Yeah? Well, they're like what,

0:28:44.720 --> 0:28:47.400
<v Speaker 3>like they wanted to know about the missing folks that

0:28:47.440 --> 0:28:49.880
<v Speaker 3>the public knows about and that are like being searched for,

0:28:50.320 --> 0:28:53.280
<v Speaker 3>like use them powers to find them? Yes, find the

0:28:53.320 --> 0:28:55.320
<v Speaker 3>kids in the well. Yeah. So she she talked about

0:28:55.360 --> 0:28:57.880
<v Speaker 3>how she and that's the thing she's on all these shows.

0:28:58.160 --> 0:29:00.440
<v Speaker 3>She talks about how she works with the cop the

0:29:00.560 --> 0:29:03.880
<v Speaker 3>FBI on all these cases which would later be found

0:29:03.920 --> 0:29:08.200
<v Speaker 3>to be untrue. No, so imagine her bs game like

0:29:08.200 --> 0:29:12.000
<v Speaker 3>on Montel, but with folks people have heard of and

0:29:12.040 --> 0:29:16.400
<v Speaker 3>are like following. So she's gaining fame and she's gaining critics,

0:29:16.440 --> 0:29:19.880
<v Speaker 3>and those critics increasingly framed her not simply as like

0:29:19.920 --> 0:29:25.560
<v Speaker 3>wrong sometimes, but repeatedly wrong in high stakes contexts, especially

0:29:25.640 --> 0:29:27.840
<v Speaker 3>missing person's case. So like the family goes to her

0:29:27.880 --> 0:29:31.120
<v Speaker 3>and then they waste time looking wrong. Us yes, And

0:29:31.200 --> 0:29:35.480
<v Speaker 3>so she's making these like confident definite on air pronouncements,

0:29:36.640 --> 0:29:38.680
<v Speaker 3>and she is like this comes out. She had a

0:29:38.720 --> 0:29:41.360
<v Speaker 3>couple big boners right in a row. Like you can

0:29:41.400 --> 0:29:44.720
<v Speaker 3>call a mistake a boner, right, it's early nineteen hundred slang.

0:29:44.480 --> 0:29:45.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, its always nineteen thirty two.

0:29:46.400 --> 0:29:49.840
<v Speaker 3>She had some blamo boners in the early odds. So

0:29:49.880 --> 0:29:53.280
<v Speaker 3>the first The first was in two thousand and two. Okay,

0:29:53.360 --> 0:29:56.680
<v Speaker 3>and eleven year old boy named Sean Hornbeck went missing

0:29:56.720 --> 0:29:58.720
<v Speaker 3>while he was riding his bike to a friend's house

0:29:58.880 --> 0:30:03.480
<v Speaker 3>in Missouri, in Richwood's, Missouri. So when he never turned up,

0:30:03.560 --> 0:30:06.920
<v Speaker 3>parents call the cops. The bicycle is later found abandoned

0:30:06.960 --> 0:30:09.800
<v Speaker 3>near a wooded area not far from his house, and

0:30:09.880 --> 0:30:13.280
<v Speaker 3>the location suggested a possible abduction rather than like him

0:30:13.360 --> 0:30:18.480
<v Speaker 3>running away. So search efforts begin immediately, just expand local

0:30:18.560 --> 0:30:21.719
<v Speaker 3>law enforcement volunteers, search teams they like comb through all

0:30:21.720 --> 0:30:27.160
<v Speaker 3>these wooded areas, tracking dogs, helicopters. Everything they search and search.

0:30:27.320 --> 0:30:31.560
<v Speaker 3>There's no confirmed trail. They can't find anything. They have

0:30:31.600 --> 0:30:35.040
<v Speaker 3>no suspects. So the case first draws regional and then

0:30:35.120 --> 0:30:38.600
<v Speaker 3>national media attention because of his age. You know, he's

0:30:38.680 --> 0:30:42.440
<v Speaker 3>like eleven and this lack of evidence, he just vanished.

0:30:43.200 --> 0:30:46.960
<v Speaker 3>So his parents maintained a really visible public campaign. They

0:30:47.000 --> 0:30:50.080
<v Speaker 3>handed out flyers, they were working with all these search

0:30:50.200 --> 0:30:54.400
<v Speaker 3>organizations that were focused on finding kids missing kids. Law

0:30:54.520 --> 0:30:57.640
<v Speaker 3>enforcement was like following all these tips, every tip that

0:30:57.680 --> 0:31:00.520
<v Speaker 3>comes in, but they have no viable suspects. So the

0:31:00.560 --> 0:31:03.760
<v Speaker 3>case starts to grow cold in terms of, like, you know,

0:31:04.080 --> 0:31:06.760
<v Speaker 3>any action that they can take, but it's open and

0:31:06.800 --> 0:31:11.680
<v Speaker 3>they keep reviewing it periodically. So during this period, his

0:31:11.800 --> 0:31:15.000
<v Speaker 3>parents go on national television programs looking for help and

0:31:15.040 --> 0:31:20.320
<v Speaker 3>like seeking exposure. And so his parents went on the

0:31:20.400 --> 0:31:21.720
<v Speaker 3>Montell Williams Show.

0:31:21.760 --> 0:31:22.440
<v Speaker 2>Just about asked.

0:31:22.560 --> 0:31:25.000
<v Speaker 3>Sylvia Brown is on there to do a reading about

0:31:25.000 --> 0:31:28.240
<v Speaker 3>the case. So Brown tells them that their son is dead,

0:31:29.720 --> 0:31:34.200
<v Speaker 3>and she talks about the circumstances and the perpetrator is

0:31:34.200 --> 0:31:37.720
<v Speaker 3>he did in that Smoker Croke. She's like, your son

0:31:37.840 --> 0:31:41.800
<v Speaker 3>is dead. She said he was a Hispanic man with dreadlocks.

0:31:42.360 --> 0:31:46.680
<v Speaker 3>It took him and she said that his body was

0:31:46.760 --> 0:31:49.560
<v Speaker 3>twenty miles from their house in a wooded area near

0:31:49.600 --> 0:31:50.920
<v Speaker 3>two jagged boulders.

0:31:51.000 --> 0:31:52.280
<v Speaker 2>I think was a New Yorkan.

0:31:52.480 --> 0:31:55.640
<v Speaker 3>So you're hearing that his parents are hearing this, and

0:31:55.720 --> 0:32:00.520
<v Speaker 3>like the truth is basically the opposite. This guy, Michael J. Devlin,

0:32:00.560 --> 0:32:03.080
<v Speaker 3>who is a pizza parlor manager from the Saint Louis

0:32:03.080 --> 0:32:07.320
<v Speaker 3>suburb of Kirkwood, Missouri, approached Hornback during his bike ride,

0:32:07.360 --> 0:32:10.400
<v Speaker 3>subdued him, took him away from the area, takes him

0:32:10.400 --> 0:32:13.400
<v Speaker 3>to his apartment in Kirkwood that's like sixty miles from

0:32:13.400 --> 0:32:16.240
<v Speaker 3>his home, and Devlin held him there for more than

0:32:16.440 --> 0:32:19.960
<v Speaker 3>four years. What yes, so Sean.

0:32:19.840 --> 0:32:22.000
<v Speaker 2>Was having his own bedroom or like he's like now

0:32:22.000 --> 0:32:22.600
<v Speaker 2>his son.

0:32:22.520 --> 0:32:25.880
<v Speaker 3>He's now yeah, and well yeah, And so Sean is

0:32:25.960 --> 0:32:28.719
<v Speaker 3>held in the apartment, kept under tight control, given a

0:32:28.760 --> 0:32:32.320
<v Speaker 3>false name, has to present himself as Devlin's child in

0:32:32.360 --> 0:32:37.680
<v Speaker 3>public Saturday school. He's abused, he's restricted in his movement,

0:32:38.320 --> 0:32:41.120
<v Speaker 3>he has these threats against him if he reveals his identity.

0:32:41.520 --> 0:32:44.240
<v Speaker 3>And so he's living in plain sight for years. Oh god.

0:32:44.560 --> 0:32:48.600
<v Speaker 3>And then January eighth, two thousand and seven, Devlin abducts

0:32:48.680 --> 0:32:54.400
<v Speaker 3>another boy, Ben Ownbe from Missouri. Owned b disappeared while

0:32:54.400 --> 0:32:57.520
<v Speaker 3>walking home from school from a bus stop. So witness

0:32:57.560 --> 0:33:00.880
<v Speaker 3>descriptions of a white pickup truck led Lease to focus

0:33:00.960 --> 0:33:04.760
<v Speaker 3>on Devlin. The police located the truck traced it to Devlin.

0:33:05.040 --> 0:33:08.240
<v Speaker 3>January twelfth, two thousand and seven, officers go to his

0:33:08.320 --> 0:33:11.479
<v Speaker 3>apartment with a search warrant. They find ben Ohenby alive

0:33:12.000 --> 0:33:16.040
<v Speaker 3>and Sean Hornbeck alive. Good. He's been missing for you know,

0:33:16.160 --> 0:33:21.400
<v Speaker 3>five years. So everyone came down on Sylvia Brown because

0:33:21.440 --> 0:33:23.600
<v Speaker 3>she was so cold about it, just like flat the

0:33:23.600 --> 0:33:26.000
<v Speaker 3>boys dead and this really.

0:33:26.880 --> 0:33:32.320
<v Speaker 2>The odds because it was completely parents believed her, but

0:33:32.360 --> 0:33:33.360
<v Speaker 2>they kept searching.

0:33:33.400 --> 0:33:35.920
<v Speaker 3>But it's like you hear this, and so they're going

0:33:35.960 --> 0:33:41.200
<v Speaker 3>and looking for these two jagged boulders. Horrible. Everyone starts

0:33:41.200 --> 0:33:43.640
<v Speaker 3>to kind of sour for a bit. On TV, cyched

0:33:44.520 --> 0:33:48.320
<v Speaker 3>she wasn't done. So two thousand and four, two years after,

0:33:48.360 --> 0:33:52.120
<v Speaker 3>she declares Sean Hornbeck dead and three years before he's

0:33:52.120 --> 0:33:55.480
<v Speaker 3>found alive. Oh no, she's on the Montel Williams Show again.

0:33:55.760 --> 0:33:57.200
<v Speaker 2>Why does he keep bringing her back?

0:33:58.000 --> 0:34:02.840
<v Speaker 3>Makes TV? Also on the show was Luwana Miller and

0:34:02.960 --> 0:34:06.479
<v Speaker 3>her daughter Amanda Barry disappeared on April twenty first, two

0:34:06.520 --> 0:34:09.239
<v Speaker 3>thousand and three, at the age of sixteen. She had

0:34:09.239 --> 0:34:11.640
<v Speaker 3>a job at Burger King in Cleveland, Ohio. She was

0:34:11.960 --> 0:34:15.360
<v Speaker 3>you know, left work to go home. Disappears. Her case

0:34:15.440 --> 0:34:19.160
<v Speaker 3>got regional and then national media attention. Her mother was

0:34:19.160 --> 0:34:22.359
<v Speaker 3>on Montel in an effort to get media exposure keep

0:34:22.360 --> 0:34:26.920
<v Speaker 3>the case visible. So during the segment, Brown tells Miller

0:34:26.960 --> 0:34:30.799
<v Speaker 3>that Amanda Berry's dead. She's like, she's not alive, honey, Like,

0:34:30.880 --> 0:34:34.120
<v Speaker 3>I mean, it's just so flat out and all these

0:34:35.560 --> 0:34:39.160
<v Speaker 3>all these mainstream news outlets just keep playing that line

0:34:39.200 --> 0:34:44.360
<v Speaker 3>from the broadcast. Really yeah. According to CNN's transcripted coverage

0:34:44.400 --> 0:34:49.640
<v Speaker 3>and CBS News reporting, Brown was like that the transcript

0:34:49.680 --> 0:34:52.480
<v Speaker 3>says she's not alive, honey, because I couldn't find the

0:34:52.560 --> 0:34:54.840
<v Speaker 3>episode anyway.

0:34:55.280 --> 0:34:57.440
<v Speaker 2>I love that she just kind of hit the perfect

0:34:57.480 --> 0:34:59.920
<v Speaker 2>like rhyme or meter her or whatever. Everyone just sees

0:35:00.200 --> 0:35:01.240
<v Speaker 2>on that one line.

0:35:01.440 --> 0:35:05.960
<v Speaker 3>So Miller is the mom is just absolutely broken and distressed,

0:35:06.400 --> 0:35:08.800
<v Speaker 3>and like she's like, but you know what, she's in heaven.

0:35:08.840 --> 0:35:12.960
<v Speaker 3>She's at peace, and like she but she's totally like

0:35:13.080 --> 0:35:15.400
<v Speaker 3>this is it. I'm not speculating like I feel like

0:35:15.480 --> 0:35:18.040
<v Speaker 3>it or like odds are She's like, no, this is

0:35:18.080 --> 0:35:22.080
<v Speaker 3>the facts. And so she also kind of goes into

0:35:22.120 --> 0:35:25.640
<v Speaker 3>like the circumstances of how the daughter died. Oh no, yeah,

0:35:26.080 --> 0:35:30.240
<v Speaker 3>so obviously the mother's devastated. The clip shows her crying,

0:35:30.320 --> 0:35:35.640
<v Speaker 3>She's visibly shaken. Miller continues searching for her daughter afterward,

0:35:35.680 --> 0:35:39.120
<v Speaker 3>but family members later said that that like psychic pronouncement,

0:35:39.760 --> 0:35:43.080
<v Speaker 3>caused this horrible grief for her. She died in two

0:35:43.120 --> 0:35:45.640
<v Speaker 3>thousand and six, like holding the pain of the loss

0:35:45.640 --> 0:35:49.200
<v Speaker 3>of her child. In May of twenty thirteen, Amanda Berry's

0:35:49.200 --> 0:35:53.759
<v Speaker 3>found alive. She escaped from a Cleveland house where she'd

0:35:53.800 --> 0:35:57.560
<v Speaker 3>been held captive for a decade by Ariel Castro. That

0:35:57.600 --> 0:36:01.879
<v Speaker 3>guy has Two other women were rescued her. The McDonald's right, yeah,

0:36:01.960 --> 0:36:06.000
<v Speaker 3>And it turns out she watched Montelle in captivity? Does

0:36:06.040 --> 0:36:08.120
<v Speaker 3>she see that? And she used to wish that her

0:36:08.120 --> 0:36:10.759
<v Speaker 3>mom would go on there so that Sylvia Brown could

0:36:10.800 --> 0:36:14.080
<v Speaker 3>be like, she's okay, she's alive, She's gonna be okay. No,

0:36:14.600 --> 0:36:17.920
<v Speaker 3>Sylvia tells her mom that she's dead, and Amanda said, quote,

0:36:18.080 --> 0:36:20.279
<v Speaker 3>I just broke down crying because I can't believe she

0:36:20.360 --> 0:36:22.960
<v Speaker 3>said that, and my mother episode Yeah, then my mom

0:36:23.000 --> 0:36:24.960
<v Speaker 3>broke down crying, so that hurt even worse.

0:36:25.600 --> 0:36:30.879
<v Speaker 2>Oh, my God, this mother goes to her rest with

0:36:31.400 --> 0:36:32.560
<v Speaker 2>ever's own yes.

0:36:32.920 --> 0:36:38.200
<v Speaker 3>No, yeah. So after the rescue news organizations rediscovered and

0:36:38.280 --> 0:36:43.480
<v Speaker 3>rebroadcast that Montell segment, the clip just spreads everywhere national

0:36:43.520 --> 0:36:47.960
<v Speaker 3>international media online platforms as this example of like a

0:36:48.080 --> 0:36:52.440
<v Speaker 3>high confidence psychic claim that's proven false, so she's found alive.

0:36:52.520 --> 0:36:56.759
<v Speaker 3>The clip resurfaces, Montell Williams is like starts publicly distancing

0:36:56.840 --> 0:37:01.120
<v Speaker 3>himself from her. In public statements reported by all these

0:37:01.160 --> 0:37:03.680
<v Speaker 3>major outlets, he said that Sylvia Brown had not been

0:37:03.719 --> 0:37:06.200
<v Speaker 3>on his show for several years, and he didn't rely

0:37:06.320 --> 0:37:12.319
<v Speaker 3>on or endorse psychic determinations in criminal matters. So I

0:37:12.360 --> 0:37:14.799
<v Speaker 3>think you and I have mentioned briefly in passing the

0:37:14.920 --> 0:37:18.439
<v Speaker 3>radio show Coast to Coast Amy. It's a late night

0:37:18.920 --> 0:37:21.480
<v Speaker 3>radio talk show that goes heavy on discussions of the

0:37:21.520 --> 0:37:23.560
<v Speaker 3>paranormal conspiracy theory.

0:37:23.680 --> 0:37:27.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh yes, the supernatural. The Kennedy assassination at all times

0:37:28.040 --> 0:37:30.640
<v Speaker 2>was sood from the sea, from the sky everything.

0:37:31.480 --> 0:37:33.799
<v Speaker 3>It was hosted by Art Bell, who created it from

0:37:33.920 --> 0:37:36.279
<v Speaker 3>nineteen eighty eight to two thousand and three and then

0:37:36.360 --> 0:37:39.960
<v Speaker 3>hosting duties transferred over to the current host, George Neuri.

0:37:40.200 --> 0:37:44.720
<v Speaker 3>Now it existed pre nineteen eighty eight on like radio

0:37:44.760 --> 0:37:47.640
<v Speaker 3>stations in like the Southwest. Yeah, he was coming out

0:37:47.680 --> 0:37:51.920
<v Speaker 3>of Peru and exactly. And so Sylvia Brown was a

0:37:51.920 --> 0:37:55.840
<v Speaker 3>frequent guest, and they'd talked to her about prognostications for

0:37:55.880 --> 0:37:58.120
<v Speaker 3>the coming year or like the ins and outs of

0:37:58.160 --> 0:38:01.120
<v Speaker 3>dealing with the spirit world. And that the show goes

0:38:01.160 --> 0:38:02.200
<v Speaker 3>on for like four hours.

0:38:02.520 --> 0:38:03.319
<v Speaker 2>It's a long time.

0:38:03.400 --> 0:38:05.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. So the first hour or two, the host chats

0:38:05.880 --> 0:38:07.640
<v Speaker 3>with the guest, and then they go to the phones

0:38:07.640 --> 0:38:12.239
<v Speaker 3>and take calls for the rest. So January second, two

0:38:12.320 --> 0:38:15.520
<v Speaker 3>thousand and six, an explosion occurred at the Sago mine

0:38:15.520 --> 0:38:20.360
<v Speaker 3>in Upshur County, West Virginia. Thirteen miners were trapped underground.

0:38:20.880 --> 0:38:24.080
<v Speaker 3>So in the first hours after the blast, information was

0:38:24.120 --> 0:38:28.280
<v Speaker 3>like muddled and confused and inconsistent, and the families gathered

0:38:28.280 --> 0:38:31.840
<v Speaker 3>at this church near the site awaiting news. Yeah, and

0:38:31.880 --> 0:38:34.600
<v Speaker 3>so in the early morning of January fourth, all these

0:38:34.640 --> 0:38:39.319
<v Speaker 3>news outlets briefly and incorrectly reported that twelve miners had

0:38:39.360 --> 0:38:42.960
<v Speaker 3>been found alive, and that was false. In reality, only

0:38:43.040 --> 0:38:46.520
<v Speaker 3>one had survived and twelve others had died from carbon.

0:38:46.280 --> 0:38:47.640
<v Speaker 2>Monoxide plays they flipped.

0:38:48.080 --> 0:38:52.279
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So Sylvia Brown appeared overnight on coast to Coast

0:38:52.360 --> 0:38:55.800
<v Speaker 3>between when the disaster happened and when the tragedy was revealed,

0:38:56.360 --> 0:38:59.680
<v Speaker 3>and so during this specific appearance, she was asked about

0:38:59.680 --> 0:39:02.239
<v Speaker 3>the face to the trapped miners while rescue efforts were

0:39:02.239 --> 0:39:06.040
<v Speaker 3>still underway, and like the facts weren't confirmed. I listened

0:39:06.080 --> 0:39:10.800
<v Speaker 3>to this almost the whole episode, and then the next

0:39:10.880 --> 0:39:14.319
<v Speaker 3>day the thing for this show, I know, I care

0:39:14.400 --> 0:39:19.040
<v Speaker 3>too much. And so she she says with confidence that

0:39:19.080 --> 0:39:22.200
<v Speaker 3>the trap miners are alive, and like her comments are

0:39:22.239 --> 0:39:27.400
<v Speaker 3>framed as psychic insight rather than speculation. So saren it

0:39:27.440 --> 0:39:29.840
<v Speaker 3>was like the longest four hours of my life listening

0:39:29.880 --> 0:39:32.520
<v Speaker 3>to this thing. So there are ways to parse what

0:39:32.680 --> 0:39:35.280
<v Speaker 3>she said if you look at it solely the words

0:39:35.320 --> 0:39:37.799
<v Speaker 3>of it, but it's the way that she says it

0:39:37.960 --> 0:39:40.520
<v Speaker 3>like that leaves well, like she's like, oh, yeah, I

0:39:40.560 --> 0:39:42.440
<v Speaker 3>knew they'd be found, And so then she tries to

0:39:42.480 --> 0:39:45.239
<v Speaker 3>play it found no, like their bodies would be found. No, no, no,

0:39:47.000 --> 0:39:49.000
<v Speaker 3>the way you said it found alive.

0:39:49.160 --> 0:39:50.040
<v Speaker 2>Oh I got you.

0:39:50.600 --> 0:39:53.760
<v Speaker 3>So there's no doubt that she was positive they were alive,

0:39:53.920 --> 0:39:57.799
<v Speaker 3>and as a result of her blowing this, they got

0:39:57.880 --> 0:40:01.960
<v Speaker 3>really upset. On Coast to Coast, George is like, really

0:40:02.000 --> 0:40:04.440
<v Speaker 3>pissed off towards the end of that episode, and then

0:40:04.480 --> 0:40:07.480
<v Speaker 3>the next day he's talking about it, and as a result,

0:40:07.560 --> 0:40:10.200
<v Speaker 3>she gets banned from coast to coast. Good for you,

0:40:10.320 --> 0:40:12.000
<v Speaker 3>George exactly.

0:40:12.160 --> 0:40:14.080
<v Speaker 2>I interviewed him once and I got a sense it

0:40:14.280 --> 0:40:16.920
<v Speaker 2>was a good guy. Even though he's really curious and

0:40:17.000 --> 0:40:19.760
<v Speaker 2>open minded and entertain things a lot of people won't,

0:40:20.000 --> 0:40:21.040
<v Speaker 2>he still seems decent.

0:40:21.120 --> 0:40:24.480
<v Speaker 3>One of the things I realized in listening to these episodes,

0:40:24.560 --> 0:40:26.359
<v Speaker 3>like some of the old Art Bell ones with her

0:40:26.400 --> 0:40:29.120
<v Speaker 3>in these, is that they really like the stuff they're

0:40:29.160 --> 0:40:32.680
<v Speaker 3>talking about in terms of environmental issues and like global

0:40:33.000 --> 0:40:36.919
<v Speaker 3>climate change. They sounded kooky at the time, but they're

0:40:37.000 --> 0:40:40.400
<v Speaker 3>right now. You know, we start looking at like weird

0:40:40.680 --> 0:40:46.279
<v Speaker 3>like conspiracy rings of high powered people, and it's like

0:40:46.360 --> 0:40:47.520
<v Speaker 3>we brush them off, and.

0:40:48.160 --> 0:40:53.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh man, Art Bell is gonna be right about the aliens.

0:40:52.880 --> 0:40:58.120
<v Speaker 3>Too, Like wait a second, pyramids, Okay, so she's out

0:40:58.120 --> 0:41:02.400
<v Speaker 3>of there. Don't darken our doorway again. Eighty six. Because

0:41:02.480 --> 0:41:05.600
<v Speaker 3>her Coast Coast AM statements were made close to like

0:41:06.080 --> 0:41:09.759
<v Speaker 3>the peak of uncertainty, you know, critics were like, well maybe,

0:41:09.840 --> 0:41:12.920
<v Speaker 3>but at the same time, like, no, she could have

0:41:13.000 --> 0:41:15.520
<v Speaker 3>said if she really knew if she really was a psychic.

0:41:16.080 --> 0:41:18.560
<v Speaker 3>So this and a bunch of other bad predictions and

0:41:18.680 --> 0:41:21.360
<v Speaker 3>false statement like sent up a red flag for the

0:41:21.400 --> 0:41:25.960
<v Speaker 3>eighteen And that's the Committee for Scientific Investigation of Claims

0:41:25.960 --> 0:41:29.440
<v Speaker 3>of the Paranormal, helmed by none other than James Randy.

0:41:29.600 --> 0:41:33.359
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, engines pumping. Let's take a break and when

0:41:33.400 --> 0:41:36.840
<v Speaker 3>we come back, Sylvia Brown versus the amazing Randy.

0:41:36.920 --> 0:42:00.719
<v Speaker 4>Yes, all right, Zaren Darren, you're going to say that

0:42:00.719 --> 0:42:02.920
<v Speaker 4>I've been working on my psychic powers during a break.

0:42:03.480 --> 0:42:06.879
<v Speaker 2>It's like, say my name, how did you know I'm so.

0:42:07.000 --> 0:42:11.960
<v Speaker 3>Good at you're so good at that? James Randy he

0:42:12.080 --> 0:42:17.800
<v Speaker 3>was a Canadian American magician, a scape artist, and scientific skeptic,

0:42:17.920 --> 0:42:22.320
<v Speaker 3>best known for investigating and publicly challenging paranormal and pseudo

0:42:22.360 --> 0:42:23.360
<v Speaker 3>scientific names.

0:42:23.400 --> 0:42:25.360
<v Speaker 2>A skeptic with a good sensation, and he used.

0:42:25.200 --> 0:42:27.280
<v Speaker 3>To say, I'm not He didn't call himself a magician.

0:42:27.320 --> 0:42:29.759
<v Speaker 3>He called himself a conjurer because he's like, there's no

0:42:29.920 --> 0:42:30.800
<v Speaker 3>magic involved.

0:42:30.840 --> 0:42:32.200
<v Speaker 2>I was going to correct you, but I didn't want

0:42:32.239 --> 0:42:33.120
<v Speaker 2>to thank you.

0:42:33.880 --> 0:42:37.120
<v Speaker 3>So he started his career as like a stage magician

0:42:37.200 --> 0:42:41.360
<v Speaker 3>slash conjurer escape artist. In the forties and fifties and

0:42:41.400 --> 0:42:45.200
<v Speaker 3>he performed under the name the Amazing Randy, and he

0:42:45.280 --> 0:42:48.960
<v Speaker 3>was inspired by Harry Houdini. He did these like specialized

0:42:48.960 --> 0:42:52.279
<v Speaker 3>like escape acts, illusion work, and then he got, you know,

0:42:52.360 --> 0:42:55.000
<v Speaker 3>work on TV. He did a lot of live performances.

0:42:55.360 --> 0:42:58.919
<v Speaker 3>By the sixties and seventies, though he shifted focus toward

0:42:59.040 --> 0:43:03.880
<v Speaker 3>investigating paranormal claims, and he used his knowledge of conjuring

0:43:03.960 --> 0:43:08.360
<v Speaker 3>techniques to explain how all these like supposed psychic feats

0:43:08.680 --> 0:43:11.920
<v Speaker 3>could be simulated by trickery, yeah, slight of handstype, and

0:43:12.040 --> 0:43:15.400
<v Speaker 3>he talked about cold readings and hot readings for psychics.

0:43:15.480 --> 0:43:19.920
<v Speaker 3>And so he became really widely known for scrutinizing high

0:43:19.960 --> 0:43:24.480
<v Speaker 3>profile paranormal figures faith healers, most notably as you mentioned

0:43:24.840 --> 0:43:27.720
<v Speaker 3>Uri Geller, Yeah, the spoon Bender, and then Peter pop

0:43:27.760 --> 0:43:30.480
<v Speaker 3>Off I talked about him, Yes, that's right. So he

0:43:30.520 --> 0:43:35.439
<v Speaker 3>would demonstrate through controlled tests and media investigations how their

0:43:35.480 --> 0:43:39.319
<v Speaker 3>effects could be duplicated or explained, and then he all

0:43:39.400 --> 0:43:44.760
<v Speaker 3>his investigations were in books, TV appearances, lectures. Johnny Carson

0:43:44.800 --> 0:43:45.160
<v Speaker 3>loved to.

0:43:45.080 --> 0:43:48.800
<v Speaker 2>Have Johnny Carson loved him. Then later on the magician

0:43:48.880 --> 0:43:51.400
<v Speaker 2>Ricky j and Pennin teller who kind of just inherited

0:43:51.400 --> 0:43:52.880
<v Speaker 2>his traditions exactly.

0:43:53.320 --> 0:43:56.160
<v Speaker 3>So in nineteen ninety six he founded the James Randy

0:43:56.320 --> 0:44:01.400
<v Speaker 3>Educational Foundation, which created the Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge, and

0:44:01.440 --> 0:44:04.680
<v Speaker 3>the challenge offered a million bucks to anyone who could

0:44:04.760 --> 0:44:10.720
<v Speaker 3>demonstrate paranormal ability under agreed controlled conditions, and the challenge

0:44:10.800 --> 0:44:14.880
<v Speaker 3>rules and the purpose were widely published and repeatedly covered

0:44:14.880 --> 0:44:17.960
<v Speaker 3>in mainstream media, so everyone knew about this. During this

0:44:18.080 --> 0:44:21.480
<v Speaker 3>same period, Sylvia Brown, She's coming up through the media ranks,

0:44:21.800 --> 0:44:26.680
<v Speaker 3>and because she made specific, testable paranormal claims on national television,

0:44:27.239 --> 0:44:30.400
<v Speaker 3>she became one of Randy's most frequent examples when he

0:44:30.480 --> 0:44:34.880
<v Speaker 3>was talking about why controlled testing is necessary. So throughout

0:44:34.960 --> 0:44:39.040
<v Speaker 3>the nineties in the early two thousands, Randy repeatedly criticized

0:44:39.120 --> 0:44:44.720
<v Speaker 3>Sylvia Brown's claims in interviews, lectures, all his published commentaries.

0:44:45.120 --> 0:44:48.120
<v Speaker 3>He said that her claims were empirical and testable, but

0:44:48.239 --> 0:44:52.239
<v Speaker 3>she was avoiding these controlled tests, and that her televised

0:44:52.280 --> 0:44:56.160
<v Speaker 3>readings used common cold reading techniques. So that's when you're

0:44:56.239 --> 0:44:58.080
<v Speaker 3>just like phishing basically.

0:44:57.800 --> 0:44:59.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and then you wait to sew they react.

0:44:59.760 --> 0:45:01.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Hot reading is when you do a little bit

0:45:01.680 --> 0:45:04.319
<v Speaker 3>of background information ahead of time and then you can

0:45:04.400 --> 0:45:06.480
<v Speaker 3>kind of, you know, to reach research them to know

0:45:06.520 --> 0:45:07.320
<v Speaker 3>what you're going into.

0:45:08.719 --> 0:45:09.239
<v Speaker 2>Someone's feeding.

0:45:09.360 --> 0:45:12.799
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, or his example, there was one example from some

0:45:12.920 --> 0:45:15.480
<v Speaker 3>TV psychic that I think was on This was a

0:45:16.080 --> 0:45:19.719
<v Speaker 3>John Oliver special about TV psychics, but he was explaining

0:45:19.760 --> 0:45:24.320
<v Speaker 3>how there's this reality show psychic who gave Matt Lauer

0:45:24.360 --> 0:45:27.360
<v Speaker 3>a reading and was like, you know, I'm seeing something

0:45:27.400 --> 0:45:30.040
<v Speaker 3>with phishing and that's important. He's like, it was really

0:45:30.080 --> 0:45:33.359
<v Speaker 3>important my dad and I fishing, And then they were

0:45:33.360 --> 0:45:35.960
<v Speaker 3>demonstrating that the hot reading on that is that the

0:45:36.000 --> 0:45:37.960
<v Speaker 3>guy could have googled Matt Lauer and there's a ton

0:45:38.000 --> 0:45:39.000
<v Speaker 3>of articles where he's like.

0:45:39.000 --> 0:45:39.799
<v Speaker 2>I love fishing with.

0:45:41.400 --> 0:45:45.280
<v Speaker 3>Totally. So Sylvia Brown, like she's using these cold reading

0:45:45.320 --> 0:45:50.120
<v Speaker 3>techniques and her track record on verifiable cases was terrible.

0:45:50.880 --> 0:45:52.960
<v Speaker 3>So like, you know, is my grandma okay? On the

0:45:53.000 --> 0:45:55.600
<v Speaker 3>other side, Yeah, she loves you and she's looking down

0:45:55.640 --> 0:45:58.120
<v Speaker 3>on you and she's happy. That's one thing, But like

0:45:58.280 --> 0:46:03.600
<v Speaker 3>you know, Amanda Barry dead, honey, he's yeah. So the

0:46:03.680 --> 0:46:09.120
<v Speaker 3>criticisms appeared in skeptical Inquirer articles like his publication. In

0:46:09.120 --> 0:46:14.160
<v Speaker 3>his lectures, he and other skeptical investigators also pointed to

0:46:14.280 --> 0:46:20.040
<v Speaker 3>all her felony, securities, convictions, and for the saying they're like,

0:46:20.160 --> 0:46:22.719
<v Speaker 3>she's not credible, look at that like that, you know,

0:46:22.760 --> 0:46:26.520
<v Speaker 3>speaks to her lack of integrity. Credible. It's the convictions exactly.

0:46:27.160 --> 0:46:30.680
<v Speaker 3>So both James Randy and Sylvia Brown were regular guests

0:46:30.719 --> 0:46:34.160
<v Speaker 3>on CNN's Larry King Live, so it was only a

0:46:34.160 --> 0:46:37.400
<v Speaker 3>matter of time before they collide. There matadoran bull meeting

0:46:37.400 --> 0:46:41.680
<v Speaker 3>in the arena. Zaren, close your eyes. I want you

0:46:41.760 --> 0:46:52.520
<v Speaker 3>to close. It's September third, two thousand and one. You

0:46:52.600 --> 0:46:55.759
<v Speaker 3>work at CNN Studio in Los Angeles in a very

0:46:56.040 --> 0:47:03.480
<v Speaker 3>specialized position. You are Larry King's spe archivist. You catalog track,

0:47:03.640 --> 0:47:07.520
<v Speaker 3>acchoire and maintain the hundreds of pairs of suspenders Larry

0:47:07.600 --> 0:47:11.319
<v Speaker 3>King has in his stable of braces. You've chosen for

0:47:11.400 --> 0:47:14.400
<v Speaker 3>him today, a pair in aubergine, but an aubergine's so

0:47:14.600 --> 0:47:17.560
<v Speaker 3>dark it reads as black. They pair nicely with his

0:47:17.680 --> 0:47:21.160
<v Speaker 3>salmon colored shirt and green and black striped tie, or

0:47:21.200 --> 0:47:23.680
<v Speaker 3>so you are telling yourself. You watch him in the

0:47:23.719 --> 0:47:27.319
<v Speaker 3>monitor and you're thankful you are only responsible for the suspenders.

0:47:28.239 --> 0:47:31.440
<v Speaker 3>You're in a commercial break right now. Studio staff whisper

0:47:31.480 --> 0:47:35.360
<v Speaker 3>and make adjustments to lights or microphones. Larry's guest tonight

0:47:35.440 --> 0:47:39.440
<v Speaker 3>is that psychic Sylvia Brown. She's unassuming in her blonde

0:47:39.480 --> 0:47:43.280
<v Speaker 3>page boy bob black sweater and dangling earrings. She sits

0:47:43.320 --> 0:47:45.799
<v Speaker 3>in her chair and looks at her nails. Larry takes

0:47:45.800 --> 0:47:48.400
<v Speaker 3>a sip of coffee from his mug on a huge

0:47:48.440 --> 0:47:52.040
<v Speaker 3>monitor facing Larry and Sylvia and broadcast of viewers. When

0:47:52.080 --> 0:47:55.680
<v Speaker 3>you come back from commercial is James Randy. He's appearing

0:47:55.719 --> 0:47:59.520
<v Speaker 3>from Miami via satellite. You love this guy, no nonsense.

0:48:00.120 --> 0:48:02.880
<v Speaker 3>He's wearing a suit and his white beard is fluffy

0:48:02.920 --> 0:48:06.000
<v Speaker 3>and neat. You can't tell if he's got on suspenders

0:48:06.040 --> 0:48:09.080
<v Speaker 3>under that suit jacket. God, you'd give anything to find out.

0:48:09.520 --> 0:48:11.560
<v Speaker 3>You'd love to know what he's working with. Is there

0:48:11.600 --> 0:48:14.880
<v Speaker 3>any stretch to the material? Maybe silk leather? Is he

0:48:14.920 --> 0:48:17.799
<v Speaker 3>a y back guy or an xback? Maybe one day

0:48:17.800 --> 0:48:20.319
<v Speaker 3>you'll get to meet him in person and ask. The

0:48:20.320 --> 0:48:22.959
<v Speaker 3>producer gives a signal that the ad break is ending

0:48:22.960 --> 0:48:25.560
<v Speaker 3>and you're about to go on live, and in five

0:48:26.040 --> 0:48:29.759
<v Speaker 3>four three that's your cue to step out into the hall.

0:48:30.320 --> 0:48:32.800
<v Speaker 3>You lean against the wall and stare off into the distance.

0:48:33.040 --> 0:48:35.959
<v Speaker 3>People walk back and forth, guy drops a big stack

0:48:36.000 --> 0:48:38.279
<v Speaker 3>of books and you help him pick him up. Above you,

0:48:38.400 --> 0:48:41.600
<v Speaker 3>the on air light glows red against the ceiling. You

0:48:41.640 --> 0:48:44.640
<v Speaker 3>look through the window into the soundproof studio. There seems

0:48:44.680 --> 0:48:48.520
<v Speaker 3>to be a tense exchange between Randy and Brown. You

0:48:48.640 --> 0:48:50.839
<v Speaker 3>usually tune the stuff out because so much of it

0:48:50.880 --> 0:48:54.239
<v Speaker 3>is just manufactured for TV, but Randy is serious. He's

0:48:54.239 --> 0:48:58.080
<v Speaker 3>not one for stunts. You really wish you were in there. Finally,

0:48:58.120 --> 0:49:00.760
<v Speaker 3>they wrap and you head back into a company Larry

0:49:00.800 --> 0:49:04.120
<v Speaker 3>and his suspenders to his dressing room. The two of

0:49:04.120 --> 0:49:05.799
<v Speaker 3>you walked down the hall and you ask how it

0:49:05.840 --> 0:49:08.840
<v Speaker 3>went well. He tells you Randy really put her on

0:49:08.880 --> 0:49:11.319
<v Speaker 3>the spot to do his million dollar challenge, the one

0:49:11.320 --> 0:49:14.880
<v Speaker 3>with the control groups and such, And you ask she

0:49:14.960 --> 0:49:17.360
<v Speaker 3>said she'd do it? She said she agreed, and I

0:49:17.400 --> 0:49:19.680
<v Speaker 3>told him we can host it on our website or

0:49:19.680 --> 0:49:22.160
<v Speaker 3>whatever they need. She kept saying it didn't bother her,

0:49:22.239 --> 0:49:24.640
<v Speaker 3>didn't bother her, That's why she came on the show.

0:49:25.000 --> 0:49:27.080
<v Speaker 3>But I wasn't buying it. I got her to say

0:49:27.080 --> 0:49:30.239
<v Speaker 3>she agreed to the conditions. Well, see what happens. You

0:49:30.280 --> 0:49:33.080
<v Speaker 3>reach the dressing room and Larry turns his back to you.

0:49:33.080 --> 0:49:36.160
<v Speaker 3>You reach down and gently unbutton the back of his suspenders.

0:49:36.360 --> 0:49:39.640
<v Speaker 3>He's a why back guy. Larry unbuttons the front tabs

0:49:39.680 --> 0:49:43.239
<v Speaker 3>from inside his waistband. You gingerly lift the suspenders from

0:49:43.239 --> 0:49:46.640
<v Speaker 3>his shoulders, smoothly fold them over your arm, and walked

0:49:46.640 --> 0:49:48.720
<v Speaker 3>to the side table where their box has been waiting

0:49:48.719 --> 0:49:52.239
<v Speaker 3>since Larry got dressed for tonight's episode. See you tomorrow, kid,

0:49:52.600 --> 0:49:55.120
<v Speaker 3>Larry says, and you nod and head out to the

0:49:55.160 --> 0:49:57.640
<v Speaker 3>suspender room. This is Aaron.

0:49:58.000 --> 0:50:00.319
<v Speaker 2>I love that he has an archiveoist. And then I'm

0:50:00.320 --> 0:50:02.640
<v Speaker 2>imagining him like walking out with loose pants.

0:50:02.360 --> 0:50:03.080
<v Speaker 3>Because it's like.

0:50:05.440 --> 0:50:09.200
<v Speaker 2>Dropped the grass backly he walks out in the shorts.

0:50:10.440 --> 0:50:13.840
<v Speaker 3>So as you went to Sarah. During the broadcast, Randy

0:50:13.960 --> 0:50:18.200
<v Speaker 3>publicly challenged Sylvia Brown to take the million dollar Paranormal

0:50:18.320 --> 0:50:22.239
<v Speaker 3>Challenge and she was, she said on air. She accepted it,

0:50:22.680 --> 0:50:26.120
<v Speaker 3>and then he was like, it's available. You will be

0:50:26.200 --> 0:50:31.839
<v Speaker 3>tested under mutually agreed you know, controlled conditions. She responds affirmatively, Yes,

0:50:31.920 --> 0:50:35.400
<v Speaker 3>I'll do it. So following that Larry King Live episode,

0:50:35.760 --> 0:50:39.480
<v Speaker 3>the James Randy Educational Foundation said that it was working

0:50:39.560 --> 0:50:43.399
<v Speaker 3>with Brown's representatives to set up a formal test protocol

0:50:43.640 --> 0:50:46.640
<v Speaker 3>that was consistent with the challenge rules, and that a

0:50:46.719 --> 0:50:51.560
<v Speaker 3>preliminary protocol had been negotiated and they scheduled a test date.

0:50:52.800 --> 0:50:57.080
<v Speaker 3>Brown didn't show up. No, I mean, obviously there's no test.

0:50:57.200 --> 0:51:00.000
<v Speaker 3>So I would like to make note that the Larry

0:51:00.160 --> 0:51:04.160
<v Speaker 3>King live appearance was on September third, two thousand and one,

0:51:05.040 --> 0:51:08.400
<v Speaker 3>and Sylvia Brown had no message about anything that was

0:51:08.880 --> 0:51:13.800
<v Speaker 3>coming in the next week. That's interesting, that's curious, Sylvia.

0:51:13.880 --> 0:51:16.719
<v Speaker 2>So on me, it'll be a really strong nexus of

0:51:16.880 --> 0:51:19.680
<v Speaker 2>energy around about a week and a day from now.

0:51:20.120 --> 0:51:23.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Sylvia, are you feeling anything in the No. No,

0:51:24.040 --> 0:51:28.200
<v Speaker 3>but your grandmother says hi. So in May sixty she's dead, honey.

0:51:29.560 --> 0:51:34.280
<v Speaker 3>May sixteen, two three is horrible. Almost three years after

0:51:34.320 --> 0:51:37.200
<v Speaker 3>she accepted the throwdown, she goes on Larry King again

0:51:37.760 --> 0:51:40.399
<v Speaker 3>and she had to admit she still hadn't taken Randy's test.

0:51:41.080 --> 0:51:43.080
<v Speaker 3>Why hadn't she done it? Well, she's like, you know what,

0:51:43.440 --> 0:51:45.440
<v Speaker 3>Randy won't put the prize money in escrow.

0:51:46.040 --> 0:51:47.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh got him on a technicality.

0:51:47.560 --> 0:51:49.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Randy's like, okay, let's go. So he sends her

0:51:50.000 --> 0:51:52.640
<v Speaker 3>a notarized copy of the prize account status where the

0:51:52.800 --> 0:51:55.920
<v Speaker 3>balance is more than a million dollars. She wouldn't accept

0:51:55.960 --> 0:51:59.319
<v Speaker 3>the letter, and so in two thousand and five, she's like,

0:51:59.360 --> 0:52:01.759
<v Speaker 3>you know, I know forgot any confirmation that there was

0:52:01.800 --> 0:52:04.080
<v Speaker 3>any prize money, and like, do you think you can

0:52:04.200 --> 0:52:07.759
<v Speaker 3>mess with the amazing Randy?

0:52:07.760 --> 0:52:10.799
<v Speaker 2>The giant check at her door that's actually a certified.

0:52:10.320 --> 0:52:15.000
<v Speaker 3>Receipt of James Randy was ready. He had a certified

0:52:15.040 --> 0:52:18.320
<v Speaker 3>mail receipt showing that she refused to accept the letter.

0:52:19.800 --> 0:52:22.160
<v Speaker 3>So in two thousand and seven, the whole mess winds

0:52:22.239 --> 0:52:25.000
<v Speaker 3>up on CNN again, this time on Anderson Cooper three

0:52:25.000 --> 0:52:27.839
<v Speaker 3>point sixty. Did I watch the episode? Of course they did.

0:52:29.120 --> 0:52:32.440
<v Speaker 3>There's lots of cross talk and accusations, but it wasn't Sylvia.

0:52:32.840 --> 0:52:35.879
<v Speaker 3>It was her business manager, Linda Rossi, trying to take

0:52:35.920 --> 0:52:39.239
<v Speaker 3>on James Randy and like she was not here for it.

0:52:39.320 --> 0:52:42.200
<v Speaker 3>She said that Sylvia didn't have to participate in the

0:52:42.280 --> 0:52:45.680
<v Speaker 3>challenge because she quote has nothing to prove to James Randy,

0:52:46.080 --> 0:52:49.880
<v Speaker 3>and James Randy's like, yeah, I know she doesn't, and

0:52:49.920 --> 0:52:53.680
<v Speaker 3>then she's like attacking him for being an atheist. And

0:52:53.680 --> 0:52:56.880
<v Speaker 3>Anderson had a chastiser for using quote high school debate

0:52:56.960 --> 0:53:00.319
<v Speaker 3>tactics like ad hominem attack. Yeah, Yeah.

0:53:00.360 --> 0:53:04.200
<v Speaker 2>It was amazing, a good dismissive insult, and it was like.

0:53:04.320 --> 0:53:10.400
<v Speaker 3>I had forgotten about the old Anderson Cooper was wild. Yeah.

0:53:10.440 --> 0:53:13.680
<v Speaker 3>So Sylvia Brown, she keeps publishing and touring into the

0:53:13.800 --> 0:53:18.520
<v Speaker 3>twenty tens, she released additional spiritual and psychic titles through

0:53:18.560 --> 0:53:22.319
<v Speaker 3>Hayhouse and like other related publishers. And she's talking about

0:53:22.360 --> 0:53:26.839
<v Speaker 3>like prophecy, spirit communication, health, intuition, and then she gets

0:53:26.840 --> 0:53:29.240
<v Speaker 3>into like end time scenarios.

0:53:29.719 --> 0:53:29.879
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:53:32.120 --> 0:53:34.960
<v Speaker 3>Well she said something about a pandemic hitting in twenty

0:53:35.000 --> 0:53:39.480
<v Speaker 3>twenty in one of those books. Really yeah, and folks like, well,

0:53:39.560 --> 0:53:42.920
<v Speaker 3>she was gone by then. Folks like Kim Kardashian referenced

0:53:42.960 --> 0:53:45.359
<v Speaker 3>it when COVID hit. They're like, oh, look at this book.

0:53:45.520 --> 0:53:48.480
<v Speaker 3>Ya course, But when you look at it in the

0:53:48.480 --> 0:53:50.839
<v Speaker 3>context of what she was talking about, she was more

0:53:50.880 --> 0:53:57.879
<v Speaker 3>referring to avian flu i. But see, here's the thing, though,

0:53:57.920 --> 0:54:00.319
<v Speaker 3>a ton of expert had been sounding the alarm about

0:54:00.320 --> 0:54:03.799
<v Speaker 3>this for a while now, about a global pandemic. Again,

0:54:03.840 --> 0:54:06.720
<v Speaker 3>she was playing the odds, yeah, exactly. So she remained

0:54:06.760 --> 0:54:11.520
<v Speaker 3>affiliated with her Gnostic church, continued private readings and events.

0:54:11.520 --> 0:54:15.160
<v Speaker 3>She died on November twentieth, twenty thirteen. In California at

0:54:15.200 --> 0:54:20.359
<v Speaker 3>age seventy seven. Her son, Chris Dufrain, carries on her

0:54:20.360 --> 0:54:21.280
<v Speaker 3>psychic legacy.

0:54:21.440 --> 0:54:24.080
<v Speaker 2>Naturally, someone got to He's got.

0:54:23.880 --> 0:54:27.759
<v Speaker 3>A website, Chris RightNow dot com. And I was going

0:54:27.840 --> 0:54:30.440
<v Speaker 3>to copy and paste his about Chris section here to

0:54:30.680 --> 0:54:33.120
<v Speaker 3>read to you. But when you write click on his

0:54:33.200 --> 0:54:36.960
<v Speaker 3>website and message box pops up that says alert copyright

0:54:37.000 --> 0:54:41.080
<v Speaker 3>twenty twenty by Sylvia Brown Group, Incorporated. Well guess what, Chris,

0:54:41.239 --> 0:54:43.920
<v Speaker 3>I use image to text, so I took a screenshot

0:54:44.000 --> 0:54:46.520
<v Speaker 3>so I wouldn't have to hand transcribe it. This is

0:54:46.560 --> 0:54:50.279
<v Speaker 3>for journalism. My good dude, that's You'm not breaking any copyrights.

0:54:50.400 --> 0:54:52.480
<v Speaker 3>So now I'm going to read it to you. Go

0:54:52.560 --> 0:54:55.840
<v Speaker 3>to the website and do the same thing. Internationally recognized

0:54:55.840 --> 0:54:59.600
<v Speaker 3>psychic and author Chris Dufrain has been in professional practice

0:54:59.600 --> 0:55:03.160
<v Speaker 3>for over thirty years, helping countless people. Chris is the

0:55:03.200 --> 0:55:07.279
<v Speaker 3>son of world renowned psychic, author, lecturer, and researcher, the

0:55:07.360 --> 0:55:11.920
<v Speaker 3>late Sylvia Brown. Chris's lineage includes over three hundred years

0:55:11.960 --> 0:55:17.160
<v Speaker 3>of practicing psychics, including individuals involved in the field of parapsychology.

0:55:17.719 --> 0:55:20.560
<v Speaker 3>Like his mother, Chris is also an award winning author.

0:55:21.000 --> 0:55:23.520
<v Speaker 3>He has written seven books, two of which have appeared

0:55:23.560 --> 0:55:27.839
<v Speaker 3>on the New York Times bestseller List. Chris Dufrain has

0:55:27.880 --> 0:55:31.120
<v Speaker 3>also appeared on several TV programs over the years, such

0:55:31.160 --> 0:55:37.799
<v Speaker 3>as People Are Talking, Base, City Limits, Northwest Afternoon, Unsolved Mysteries,

0:55:38.360 --> 0:55:41.719
<v Speaker 3>and The Montel Williams Show. He has also been a

0:55:41.719 --> 0:55:45.440
<v Speaker 3>featured guest on countless radio shows. Chris is very involved

0:55:45.440 --> 0:55:48.600
<v Speaker 3>with his community, giving back any chance he gets. His

0:55:48.719 --> 0:55:51.000
<v Speaker 3>primary goal in life is to help people with his

0:55:51.080 --> 0:55:54.560
<v Speaker 3>gift through readings booked on his website and live question

0:55:54.680 --> 0:55:58.000
<v Speaker 3>and answer segments on social media. You can find recordings

0:55:58.040 --> 0:56:00.400
<v Speaker 3>of Chris on his YouTube channel. You can watch one

0:56:00.440 --> 0:56:03.920
<v Speaker 3>of his frequent live YouTube Q and as meet and greets,

0:56:04.000 --> 0:56:07.640
<v Speaker 3>as well as teaches courses in hypnotherapy but apparently doesn't

0:56:07.680 --> 0:56:08.360
<v Speaker 3>have an editor.

0:56:08.840 --> 0:56:11.440
<v Speaker 2>Or you can check his real estate seminari, which he also.

0:56:11.680 --> 0:56:14.640
<v Speaker 3>Since Sylvia's passing, Chris is embarked on his own path,

0:56:15.000 --> 0:56:19.279
<v Speaker 3>including lectures throughout the country, radio podcasts, and television appearances.

0:56:19.840 --> 0:56:23.600
<v Speaker 3>In this way, he continues his mother's legacy, bringing spiritual

0:56:23.640 --> 0:56:26.440
<v Speaker 3>awareness to our world, as well as his own personal

0:56:26.480 --> 0:56:29.239
<v Speaker 3>messages of hope, peace and love in his own way,

0:56:30.719 --> 0:56:33.200
<v Speaker 3>like if You parsel those sentences.

0:56:33.320 --> 0:56:35.600
<v Speaker 2>He definitely needs more than an editor. He needs also

0:56:36.040 --> 0:56:37.200
<v Speaker 2>a BS detector.

0:56:37.640 --> 0:56:41.040
<v Speaker 3>I'll be yeah, yeah, Zaren, what's your ridiculous takeaway?

0:56:42.600 --> 0:56:44.719
<v Speaker 2>Like I have to say this often, but like the

0:56:44.800 --> 0:56:47.200
<v Speaker 2>world is so glad I decided not to become a

0:56:47.239 --> 0:56:50.839
<v Speaker 2>con man or a charlatan because I would hire you

0:56:50.880 --> 0:56:51.560
<v Speaker 2>as my editor.

0:56:51.600 --> 0:56:52.160
<v Speaker 3>I would have the.

0:56:52.200 --> 0:56:55.320
<v Speaker 2>Good website, people would believe it. I've done enough research

0:56:55.360 --> 0:56:57.719
<v Speaker 2>over the years. I know the language they want, and

0:56:57.760 --> 0:57:01.960
<v Speaker 2>like I wouldn't be so just patent agreed greedy about it,

0:57:02.239 --> 0:57:04.440
<v Speaker 2>Like I wouldn't be out there She's dad, honey, you know,

0:57:04.520 --> 0:57:07.680
<v Speaker 2>like you gotta have a little like grace with this.

0:57:07.840 --> 0:57:12.080
<v Speaker 2>You give people an emotional story. So I say, what's ridiculous?

0:57:12.160 --> 0:57:16.160
<v Speaker 2>My takeaway for this is, thank God I don't want

0:57:16.160 --> 0:57:18.120
<v Speaker 2>to be a con person because if this is the

0:57:18.160 --> 0:57:22.040
<v Speaker 2>bar to clear, right, Sylvia Brown is not that like

0:57:22.080 --> 0:57:23.840
<v Speaker 2>I can think I could trip over that bar.

0:57:24.120 --> 0:57:26.040
<v Speaker 3>I just I feel like I'm gonna go ahead and

0:57:26.040 --> 0:57:28.600
<v Speaker 3>tell my ridiculous take Ok, Yeah, what is yours Elizabeth

0:57:28.680 --> 0:57:31.960
<v Speaker 3>for once? I you know, I think about a lot

0:57:32.200 --> 0:57:34.920
<v Speaker 3>of psychic stuff that you see. They're really kind of

0:57:35.360 --> 0:57:38.200
<v Speaker 3>heavy on the self help because that's basically what they're doing. Yes,

0:57:38.440 --> 0:57:40.400
<v Speaker 3>that's what they can make their money. Reading is it's

0:57:40.480 --> 0:57:42.680
<v Speaker 3>like you can tell who people are asking about, like

0:57:43.360 --> 0:57:46.840
<v Speaker 3>you know, and there's big patterns usually sure exactly, But

0:57:46.960 --> 0:57:49.720
<v Speaker 3>when you take it that step too far. It's one

0:57:49.720 --> 0:57:53.480
<v Speaker 3>thing when it's a novelty and you're basically reassuring someone

0:57:53.640 --> 0:57:56.280
<v Speaker 3>like yeah, you know what a horoscope, you lost your

0:57:56.400 --> 0:57:58.640
<v Speaker 3>you lost your dad, but you know what, like if

0:57:58.920 --> 0:58:03.160
<v Speaker 3>if someone has a good relationship with her father and says,

0:58:04.440 --> 0:58:06.960
<v Speaker 3>does he send me messages? He's still there, you're not

0:58:07.040 --> 0:58:09.320
<v Speaker 3>going to say like yeah, they're like no, I hate him.

0:58:09.600 --> 0:58:12.040
<v Speaker 3>You know. It's like the very question tells you everything

0:58:12.040 --> 0:58:15.000
<v Speaker 3>you need to do, saying never buy a Chevy, and

0:58:15.080 --> 0:58:18.480
<v Speaker 3>you're reassuring that person. And so I think that there

0:58:18.560 --> 0:58:21.600
<v Speaker 3>sometimes people you know, maybe don't want to do a

0:58:21.600 --> 0:58:25.280
<v Speaker 3>lot of self reflection or can't you are not emotionally

0:58:25.320 --> 0:58:27.640
<v Speaker 3>developed to do it. And if this gives them a

0:58:27.680 --> 0:58:30.960
<v Speaker 3>way to feel good and like kind of you know,

0:58:31.520 --> 0:58:34.320
<v Speaker 3>develop out their feelings on things, that's one thing. But

0:58:34.400 --> 0:58:37.240
<v Speaker 3>to god, the taking advantage she's dead, honey.

0:58:37.080 --> 0:58:39.919
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's like the tarot cards and the horoscopes. The

0:58:39.960 --> 0:58:43.320
<v Speaker 2>real power of those is when you kind of project

0:58:43.400 --> 0:58:46.320
<v Speaker 2>onto it and you end up interpreting what you already feel.

0:58:46.320 --> 0:58:48.200
<v Speaker 2>So it's a way to just kind of conjure up

0:58:48.200 --> 0:58:50.560
<v Speaker 2>your own intuition, you know what I mean, if you

0:58:50.600 --> 0:58:52.760
<v Speaker 2>fit the pattern with what you think will occur, or

0:58:52.760 --> 0:58:55.640
<v Speaker 2>what you're worried about, or what you're feeling but not saying. Yeah,

0:58:55.720 --> 0:58:58.000
<v Speaker 2>So they actually have some value as like a diagnostic

0:58:58.040 --> 0:59:00.640
<v Speaker 2>tool for yourself if you're really to go with.

0:59:00.600 --> 0:59:03.040
<v Speaker 3>It and I want to believe in like woo wooh.

0:59:03.120 --> 0:59:05.760
<v Speaker 3>There are different degrees of it. I think that you

0:59:05.840 --> 0:59:09.120
<v Speaker 3>can't say like with certainty with certainty, but I think

0:59:09.160 --> 0:59:13.160
<v Speaker 3>that you know, you definitely get like feelings of some

0:59:13.200 --> 0:59:13.920
<v Speaker 3>more than others.

0:59:14.280 --> 0:59:17.240
<v Speaker 2>You know, some people can't really blow you away, you know,

0:59:17.360 --> 0:59:20.000
<v Speaker 2>Like I've heard numerous stories where I'm like, Okay, I'm

0:59:20.000 --> 0:59:21.919
<v Speaker 2>willing to believe you. If you listen to a couple

0:59:21.920 --> 0:59:24.280
<v Speaker 2>of old exorcists sit around and tell you stories, You're like,

0:59:24.640 --> 0:59:26.880
<v Speaker 2>there's something I don't know what it is, but you

0:59:26.920 --> 0:59:27.320
<v Speaker 2>guys are.

0:59:27.720 --> 0:59:32.960
<v Speaker 3>If I've learned anything from Art Bell, don't dismiss twenty

0:59:33.040 --> 0:59:36.720
<v Speaker 3>years and then we'll find out. Yeah, you know what

0:59:36.760 --> 0:59:39.240
<v Speaker 3>I think we need now? Is it? Talk back. I

0:59:39.280 --> 0:59:46.360
<v Speaker 3>was gonna say lemon cookies, well and lemon cookies. Oh

0:59:46.400 --> 0:59:51.000
<v Speaker 3>my god, I.

0:59:50.960 --> 0:59:58.760
<v Speaker 5>Want hello, my beloved Ridiculous crimbing through. This is Kelly

0:59:58.800 --> 1:00:04.240
<v Speaker 5>from Madison. I recently found out that my favorite screwball

1:00:04.720 --> 1:00:10.680
<v Speaker 5>cop from the Police Academy Movies, one Stephen Gutenberg, got

1:00:10.840 --> 1:00:16.800
<v Speaker 5>his start in showbiz buying. It's a fascinating story. I

1:00:16.800 --> 1:00:19.080
<v Speaker 5>won't ruin it here, but I highly recommend checking it out.

1:00:19.120 --> 1:00:20.800
<v Speaker 3>It'd be great to hear.

1:00:20.720 --> 1:00:24.920
<v Speaker 5>About on the show. But Stephen Gutenberg Crime, Wait.

1:00:24.840 --> 1:00:27.600
<v Speaker 2>A minute, does he have like a Tim Allen like story?

1:00:29.360 --> 1:00:30.920
<v Speaker 2>Flip a coin, See he gets the guten.

1:00:32.600 --> 1:00:39.040
<v Speaker 3>That's amazing. Okay, thank you for that. You're already writing titles.

1:00:39.400 --> 1:00:42.240
<v Speaker 3>I see what you do. That's it for today. You

1:00:42.280 --> 1:00:45.880
<v Speaker 3>can find us online at Ridiculous Crime dot com. We're

1:00:45.880 --> 1:00:49.720
<v Speaker 3>also at Ridiculous Crime on Blue Sky and on Instagram,

1:00:49.840 --> 1:00:53.439
<v Speaker 3>and we're on YouTube at Ridiculous Crime Pod. You can

1:00:53.480 --> 1:00:56.080
<v Speaker 3>email us at Ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com, and

1:00:56.160 --> 1:00:59.120
<v Speaker 3>you can leave a talk back on the iHeart app

1:00:59.160 --> 1:01:01.160
<v Speaker 3>and we would love it. I appreciate it. Reach out.

1:01:06.240 --> 1:01:09.200
<v Speaker 3>Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Zaren Burnett.

1:01:09.440 --> 1:01:13.640
<v Speaker 3>Produced and edited by Dave. She's Dead Honey Kusten, starring

1:01:13.680 --> 1:01:17.120
<v Speaker 3>Annals Rutger. This Judith Research is by Coast to Coast

1:01:17.160 --> 1:01:20.280
<v Speaker 3>AM host under study Marissa Brown and the star of

1:01:20.440 --> 1:01:24.400
<v Speaker 3>A and E's Psychic Pancakes with Jabbari Jabari Davis. The

1:01:24.400 --> 1:01:27.040
<v Speaker 3>theme song is by Guy Who Drank two gallons of

1:01:27.040 --> 1:01:29.480
<v Speaker 3>milk in ten minutes and Can See the Future Thomas

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<v Speaker 3>Lee and star of the One Man Show, Ragtime Skeptics,

1:01:33.160 --> 1:01:37.040
<v Speaker 3>Dance Review Delight Travis Dutton. Post wardrobe is provided by

1:01:37.040 --> 1:01:40.920
<v Speaker 3>Botany five hundred. Guest Haron, makeup by Sparkleshot and Mister Andre.

1:01:41.320 --> 1:01:45.800
<v Speaker 3>Executive producers are Cia Plant, Ben Bollen and UFO Mechanic

1:01:45.960 --> 1:01:55.800
<v Speaker 3>Noel Brown. QUI Say It One More Time?

1:01:57.200 --> 1:02:01.480
<v Speaker 1>QUI Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio. Four more

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