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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio, Zarin Elizabeth.

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Speaker 2: I'm doing Wow. How about you good?

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Speaker 3: I'm hanging in there. Tell you do you know what's ridiculous?

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Speaker 3: Oh girl?

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Speaker 2: Do I imagine taking a Ford Taurus okay and a

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Speaker 2: Volkswagen passaty filling them with like foam, like you know,

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Speaker 2: like industrial pham or like you know, the stuff you'd

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Speaker 2: put in like say, like that phone exactly like really.

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Speaker 3: Highly the kind of fans and.

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Speaker 2: Exactly now, in nineteen ninety nine, the Amareadi brothers did

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Speaker 2: exactly that, and they brought a friend with them. So

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Speaker 2: two brothers and their friend, They're filled up cars with

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Speaker 2: this foam and also like you know, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: a bunch of other types of phone, maybe a couple

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Speaker 2: for ballast.

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Speaker 3: And uh.

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Speaker 2: They decided to cross from the Canary Islands and then

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Speaker 2: they said, we're gonna go to the Caribbean and you know,

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Speaker 2: you can kind of float across the Atlantic and part.

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Speaker 3: Of the world. I suppose, well they did that.

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Speaker 2: It took them one hundred and nineteen days, and they

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Speaker 2: floated across the Atlantic in four taurists and folks back

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Speaker 2: and filled the phone.

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Speaker 3: And they made it and made it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, they they They said that there was all sorts

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Speaker 2: of mental strain on this because they had they had

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Speaker 2: leave part of the car for them to be inside

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Speaker 2: of the wise that they die of exposure.

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Speaker 3: And nineteen days. They had to have some room too

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Speaker 3: for Yeah, they had some.

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Speaker 2: They had mechanical issues too, because you need to navigate

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Speaker 2: a little bit right, so they had basically an inboard engine,

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Speaker 2: if you will. Generated they got exhausted from like paddling

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Speaker 2: and trying to fish along the way.

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Speaker 3: They got sick.

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Speaker 2: They had all sorts of issues that one would have

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Speaker 2: when you're trying to drift across the Atlantic.

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Speaker 3: But these three idiots, why did they say? Why? Now

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Speaker 3: were they said? Were the cars connected to each other? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they were like running together like a big raft. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so nineteen ninety nine things were different.

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Speaker 3: It was a difference.

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Speaker 2: I've my friends that I come up with dumb ideas,

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Speaker 2: like you know about me, like making my friend let

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Speaker 2: me fly off the top of his Like we see

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Speaker 2: a ton of dumb. We never said, you know, we

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Speaker 2: should do trying to cross this in a foam filled Volkswagen.

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Speaker 3: Wow, So there you go, that's ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: Mad ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: I just don't know. I don't know why.

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Speaker 2: Because they were boys, That's why they could do it.

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Speaker 2: They're like, I've got the foam, I've got the Volkswagon.

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Speaker 2: He's got a four tourists.

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Speaker 3: Let's do this. We got time off, Bob, don't gotta work,

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Speaker 3: my god.

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Speaker 2: So there you go, Elizabeth.

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Speaker 3: That's ridiculous in my world. Don't know what else is ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would love to.

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Speaker 3: I'm getting a vision. Yes, I can see that you're

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Speaker 3: going to be going to Mars in the next five years. Yes,

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Speaker 3: I'm sure of it. What this is Ridiculous Crime A

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Speaker 3: podcast about absurd and outrageous caper's heists and cons It's

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Speaker 3: always ninety nine percent murder free and one hundred percent ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: Do you always leave and then have to come back?

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Speaker 3: So I made it?

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Speaker 4: You did.

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Speaker 3: We've talked about psychics here before.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and psychic detective yeah.

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Speaker 3: Con artists like that French lady whose name escapes me, Yes,

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Speaker 3: and then the other French lady, remember there were two,

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Speaker 3: there's two, yeah, and then the TV evangelist guy who

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Speaker 3: was sort of like in the making of a psychic,

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Speaker 3: And then there were all the ones that you talked

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Speaker 3: about who were hunted by the chief hunter of fraud psychics,

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Speaker 3: Bob night Guy totally and then also the Psychic Horse,

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Speaker 3: the psychic Horse. And I've talked out a skeptic King

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Speaker 3: of the skeptics, James Rand.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, amazing Ran, truly the King of Skeptics.

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Speaker 3: I can't remember if I said before that I would

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Speaker 3: like to be psychic or if I would not want

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Speaker 3: to be psychic. I don't remember which one.

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Speaker 2: Make your opinion changes on any given day.

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Speaker 3: Well, right now I think I want to be psychic. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: because like, I'm so rocked and damaged that I don't

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Speaker 3: think there's news that the other realms could deliver to

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Speaker 3: me that would be so upsetting as to destroy me.

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Speaker 3: I've reached that point.

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Speaker 2: So wait, that's what you were worried about being psychic?

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Speaker 3: I think so probably. I don't know. I don't remember,

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Speaker 3: I don't remember what happens. But right now I'm saying,

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Speaker 3: bring it, tell me everything before it happens. And I

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Speaker 3: feel like I would I would like to feel like

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Speaker 3: I dwell in the liminal space between this world and another.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Like I like knowing things that other people

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Speaker 3: don't know.

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Speaker 2: I got a friend is like that, although that's.

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Speaker 3: Sort of the delusion behind QAnon. No, like we all

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Speaker 3: feel like we know more than others.

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Speaker 2: Or that you know, those are slightly different things knowing,

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Speaker 2: like what's like between you and the other dimensional realms

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Speaker 2: versus inside.

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Speaker 3: I like to be behind the curtains. I like to

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Speaker 3: know what other people know. And that's kind of like anyway, so.

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Speaker 2: You just generally want to know everything. Everything pretty what

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Speaker 2: I'm hearing.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I kind of already do you know, how

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Speaker 3: Like I'm always right because even when I'm wrong, I

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Speaker 3: know I'm wrong, therefore I'm right. Yeah, well put that's

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Speaker 3: how that works. So anyway. Psychics, My current favorite psychic

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Speaker 3: is ritasonte Oho Rita is yigonte Rita's gigante. She's on

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Speaker 3: Instagram and I highly recommend following her. She's got some

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Speaker 3: like psychic self help, scammy feeling stuff. But the best

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Speaker 3: of these excursions to places in like the old neighborhood.

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Speaker 2: Is her name like Giant Rita Giant. Im just wondering

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Speaker 2: I saw.

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Speaker 3: Speaking of Instagram, I saw the worst one the other

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Speaker 3: day where this lady was making hot dog tacos. But

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Speaker 3: aside from that she was wearing a shirt, you know,

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Speaker 3: Little Debbie's snack cakes, but it was like an inflated

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Speaker 3: version of the goal and it said Big Deborah. And

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Speaker 3: I was like mad at myself eating sucked into watching

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Speaker 3: her make hot dog tacos. But I was so captivated

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Speaker 3: by Big Deborah anyway, So this is a giant Rita.

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Speaker 3: So she does like Okay, so she has there's this

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Speaker 3: one where she makes morning coffee with a raw egg

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Speaker 3: yolk in it. Yeah, I'm a little obsessed with that one.

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Speaker 3: I don't what is that she like, she whips up

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Speaker 3: an egg yolk sugar in a cup. Yeah, gets it

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Speaker 3: like a real light colored right.

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Speaker 2: Sure.

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Speaker 3: Then she brews coffee on the stovetop and then pours

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Speaker 3: coffee in it. She drinks it and she's like mad

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Speaker 3: and she throws the spoon. Oh yeah, she throws the

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Speaker 3: spoon in the sink. It's so good.

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Speaker 2: Vanish with the no no no no so uh Italian.

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Speaker 2: That changes things.

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Speaker 3: So like, I don't know much about her psychic readings,

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Speaker 3: Like you can.

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Speaker 2: Book this is the psychic that she drinks the egg yo.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you can book a thirty minute private reading and

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Speaker 3: spiritual mentorship with Rita for one hundred and fifty dollars.

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Speaker 3: Uh huh, so like a book. My birthday's coming up.

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Speaker 3: I feel like she's harmless, right.

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Speaker 2: At least be fun that's.

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Speaker 3: My psychic reading of the situation. Good. But do you

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Speaker 3: know what another fun fact about her?

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Speaker 2: Elizabeth, I'm gonna be honest with you. I know zero fun.

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Speaker 3: Facts about her. Do you know who her dad is?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. Frank Gagante, Vincent the Chin?

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Speaker 3: What the mobster?

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Speaker 2: You used to go around in a bathroom to tell

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Speaker 2: the feds he was too crazy to.

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Speaker 5: Be able to go to court.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that somehow puts pathectally and I ordered into the chin.

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Speaker 2: Gagante is one of my heroes, like he beat the

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Speaker 2: Feds by for decades walking around his New York neighborhood

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Speaker 2: in the bathroom. And daughter, of course she is. That's amazing.

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Speaker 2: Scam on scams on scams.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, I love it so much.

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Speaker 2: Tell his story?

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I've got I'm going to read the book

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Speaker 3: her her tales of her dad. Yes, I ordered it

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Speaker 3: and I'm going to read it before you.

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Speaker 2: Why doesn't she have a reality show's daughter?

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Speaker 3: She's got Instagram. She's amazing. She wears like a house dress.

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Speaker 2: So she streams on Instagram.

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Speaker 3: She's so good and where's house dress? Oh yeah? But

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Speaker 3: then other time she dresses like lou Read in New

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Speaker 3: York or New Jersey. I think she's in New York.

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Speaker 3: She walks around like she goes. They go to like

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Speaker 3: Little Lily and go to restaurants, and then like she

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Speaker 3: and all her pals and her girlfriend, they sit there

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Speaker 3: and they order a bunch of food, and she's like

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Speaker 3: this place based vescirl. They do it right. She's fantastic anyway,

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Speaker 3: So she's harmless.

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Speaker 2: In my book, she's a harmless psychic.

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Speaker 3: Car but there are some psychics who are harmful. By

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Speaker 3: the way, I'm totally getting you a reading with her

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Speaker 3: for your birthday. Oh my god, I'd be like Rida,

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Speaker 3: what's gonna happen with my life?

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Speaker 2: You can FaceTime her there right, not like you send

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Speaker 2: her a question and.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't know how it works.

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Speaker 2: I don't want one of those tarot card things were

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Speaker 2: they like, I can hear this from an instance. I

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Speaker 2: want you, guys to have.

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Speaker 3: I want her to get all upset and go mad on. Yes,

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Speaker 3: I love it.

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Speaker 2: I want that for you too.

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Speaker 3: You know. So the harmful psychics, right, they take people's money,

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Speaker 3: but worse is they give them false hope or sometimes

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Speaker 3: dash the hopes they had.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they were. They just straight up lie to them

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Speaker 2: either way.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and when people are desperate, they're looking for any

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Speaker 3: comfort or certainty that they can find, and that's when

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Speaker 3: the crimers swoop in and take advantage. Some people won't

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Speaker 3: go to therapy, they will go to a psychic exactly.

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Speaker 3: So people like old Gal I'm going to tell you

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Speaker 3: about today, lady by the name of Sylvia Brown.

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Speaker 2: Why is that name familiar?

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Speaker 3: Well, Sylvia Brown was absolutely everywhere. She'll ring a bell.

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Speaker 3: She was born Sylvia Celeste Shoemaker in nineteen thirty six.

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Speaker 2: Like Willi Shoemaker's kid, tell me her father's famous too.

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Speaker 3: She made shoes for a living a baby, you know,

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Speaker 3: the jockey, Yes, yes, but that was not she was

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Speaker 3: not a jockey baby Kansas City, missoo. Okay, So she's

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Speaker 3: raised Catholic, but she told people that she had an

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Speaker 3: Episcopalian mother, a Lutheran maternal grandmother, a Jewish father, and

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Speaker 3: relatives from all these fates. That's a heck of a

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Speaker 3: still dead with an episcopalian mom and a Jewish father.

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure how we get a Catholic but go off.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I mean unless you want to say, like,

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Speaker 2: if it weren't for Henry the Eighth, I would have

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Speaker 2: been right.

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Speaker 3: But it's like she was born in nineteen thirty.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not happening.

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Speaker 3: So she said, maybe she's want to be like a

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Speaker 3: mainline Pierson.

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Speaker 2: She's like, you know, I want to be rich.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's basically I'm episcopalian. That's the thing like if

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Speaker 3: you yeah, if you're Catholic, but you want to be rich, Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 3: you wear a boiled old jacket. You just head of

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Speaker 3: off to Talbot's. So she said that she became aware

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Speaker 3: of her psychic abilities very early in childhood. She's three

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Speaker 3: years old.

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Speaker 2: Wow, look at her.

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Speaker 3: And apparently her grandma is also a.

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Speaker 2: Psychon see a nap in my future.

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Speaker 3: If you don't give me a lollipop. Her grandma's a

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Speaker 3: psychic naturally, and she guided young Sylvia and understanding her powers.

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Speaker 2: You know, it skips a generation. I'm just making that.

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Speaker 3: Out for sure. There was another psychic in the family,

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Speaker 3: her great uncle. He was a psychic medium and also

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Speaker 3: super into UFOs.

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Speaker 2: They do kind of go hand in hand.

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Speaker 3: She leaned a lot on this lore of family psychic ability.

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Speaker 2: By the way, just real quick, since the uncle likes aliens, right,

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Speaker 2: and isn't this being a psychic. Do you think he

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Speaker 2: believed that aliens had angels too, So there's like alien angels. Oh,

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Speaker 2: probably he's just got a full like almost like a

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Speaker 2: Hindu level of dt supernatural.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that must be fun. Sure, just having such a

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Speaker 3: big world, it's just boundless and anyone can take you

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Speaker 3: in the night. So she would tell everyone went about

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Speaker 3: like this family history. I bet to prove that she's

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Speaker 3: the real deal. But the spirits had chosen her at

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Speaker 3: a young age. She comes from this long line of seers.

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Speaker 3: At some point she moved to California, because we attract

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Speaker 3: all the cooks down to California. We are cooks, the

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Speaker 3: weirdos at the edge of the continent. So she married

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Speaker 3: a couple of times. She had two sons. One of them, Christopher,

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Speaker 3: grew up to be a psychic too. Naturally, Christopher, and

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Speaker 3: it was sometime early in the nineteen seventies that she

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Speaker 3: started working professionally as a psychic. To be exact, it

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Speaker 3: was May eighth, nineteen seventy three. Wow that when she

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Speaker 3: did a small reading in a private home. Boom, psychic done.

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Speaker 2: So she's doing like psychic tupperware parties in the seventies.

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Speaker 3: Yes, chef, pamper chef. You have to get at least

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Speaker 3: one reading and bring a friend. She grew her brand,

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Speaker 3: as they would say, and she did these paid readings,

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Speaker 3: she did lectures, she published books, she gained more notoriety,

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Speaker 3: she held larger events and got like bigger book publishing deals.

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Speaker 3: Good for her, I know. So she starts this business

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Speaker 3: called Nirvana Foundation for Psychic Research in nineteen seventy four,

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Speaker 3: just one year after she went pro fast. Yeah, so

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Speaker 3: she established it to provide professional licensed framework for her

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Speaker 3: psychic clairvoyant and counseling services.

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Speaker 2: But if she established it, who's doing the licensing. She's

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Speaker 2: licensing just the Licensing Bureau, licensing registered bond.

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Speaker 3: I've heard on one thing how they were saying she

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Speaker 3: was like as one of her bona fides, she's a

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Speaker 3: member of the Better Business Bureau. So take that, okay, chamber,

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Speaker 3: watch out, buddy BBB. So totally, so she she's like

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Speaker 3: keeping it on the up and up. This Nirvana Foundation.

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Speaker 3: They held meetings, they had a newsletter, and basically legitimized

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Speaker 3: her work from private homes to public events. I took

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Speaker 3: a look at the March nineteen seventy eight newsletter for

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Speaker 3: the Nirvana Foundation Please Share. The cover says, the way

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Speaker 3: of all peace is to scale the mountain of self.

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Speaker 3: The love of others makes the climb down easier. That's

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Speaker 3: actually not that's easier just to fall down the hill.

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Speaker 2: But that's actually not bad. Sure, I mean, like, master

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Speaker 2: yourself and then you can easily walk down to.

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Speaker 3: Others and you can step on people. We're here in

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Speaker 3: the valley, I love you.

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Speaker 2: Our mountains are much lower.

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Speaker 3: Then then there's like so it's this mimeograph like blurry

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Speaker 3: black and white photo of Sylvia and her husband dal Oh, right,

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Speaker 3: that's short for Kenzil Dalzel brown. What kenzled Kenzil Dalzel brown.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 3: And at the end of their names at this point, it's.

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Speaker 2: Just brown brown, like the color.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but they're both white. I guess that it's.

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Speaker 2: So even though I had kenzl whatever. But I was like, no,

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Speaker 2: that's that's that's still a white name. I can tell.

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Speaker 3: So it's a twenty page booklet with a message from Sylvia,

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Speaker 3: notes from Dal because he's the president. There's some data

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Speaker 3: on ESP test scores from the staff what, and then

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Speaker 3: some stuff about pyramids.

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Speaker 2: How do you even compare test scores?

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Speaker 3: I don't know, it's I couldn't. I started seeing charts

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Speaker 3: and numbers, and like my I just I fell asleep

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Speaker 3: and I woke up and it was sixties.

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Speaker 2: I guess you got a certify it somehow.

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Speaker 3: You do the pyramid stuff. Yeah, a poem by Sylvia

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Speaker 3: that I really want to read to you in its entirety,

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Speaker 3: but I won't. But let me just give you a

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Speaker 3: couple of stanzas. Yeah, it's called Soulmate, Waiting and Boiling

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Speaker 3: your Love over a shut up. Let me read this

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Speaker 3: beautiful piece of literature, and I'm going to read it

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Speaker 3: like as if it's a you know, I'm going by

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Speaker 3: the line breaks and everything. I'm putting my all into

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Speaker 3: this buckle up. I'm doing it for the spirits and

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Speaker 3: the angels.

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Speaker 2: You didn't let me know.

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Speaker 3: Waiting and boiling your love over a cauldron of dying embers,

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Speaker 3: fragmented images come back in the hallowed halls of my mind,

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Speaker 3: belonging to the you and I of us a small

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Speaker 3: glimpse of what it was before the world beyond a

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Speaker 3: reflection that is not a reflection. The glass shatters, and

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Speaker 3: you and I move on towards the permanency of togetherness.

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Speaker 3: Here we are like fragile butterflies caught in a hand

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Speaker 3: of time, beating wildly to be free in thee. Write

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Speaker 3: that in a card and try and go woo, some fella.

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Speaker 2: That is really what that's like. You get fired at

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Speaker 2: a gift card company.

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Speaker 3: We love over a cauldron. I'm dying, embers, I'm gonna

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Speaker 3: boil your loves oil. Careful, lookt sir. I don't know

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Speaker 3: about you, but I just can't take it. So anyway,

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Speaker 3: there's membership information on the back of the newsletter. An

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Speaker 3: individual lifetime membership was three hundred and fifty bucks and

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty six dollars. That's a little over seventeen hundred

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Speaker 3: dollars annually fifty bucks, which is like two fifty today.

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Speaker 3: So it's not cheap as far as subscriptions or memberships go.

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Speaker 2: None at all.

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Speaker 3: It's good for them, I say, right, that's so good.

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00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:32,040
Speaker 3: So she's got that going on. And this is the

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Speaker 3: beginning of when James Randy started looking into Sylvia Brown

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Speaker 3: in her work.

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Speaker 2: He was done with Uri Geller. He's like, I need someone.

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Speaker 3: Else fresh meat. Much more on that later. So a

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Speaker 3: decade after starting the Nirvana Foundations, she got wise. I

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Speaker 3: think she figured out that there was a better, more

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Speaker 3: tax exempt way to do things, so she started a

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Speaker 3: church for In April of nineteen eighty six, she founded

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Speaker 3: a gnostic church called the Society of Novus Spiritus A gnostic. Yes,

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Speaker 3: of course she picked that up. Yes, so this is

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Speaker 3: like the center point of her identity as a spiritual teacher,

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Speaker 3: not just like a TV psychic. The church is still

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Speaker 3: around from their website.

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Speaker 2: Good Churches Never die.

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Speaker 3: Elizabeth Novus is Sylvia's monument to God, a forum to

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Speaker 3: express the joy and love that is God, with no fear,

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Speaker 3: no guilt, no sin, no hell, and no Satan.

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Speaker 2: No taxes.

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Speaker 3: Through Novice or Novs whichever, Sylvia gives the world a

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Speaker 3: means to understand God, life and the reason for being

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Speaker 3: all right. So there are twenty one tenants of the church.

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Speaker 3: I will not read all of them.

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Speaker 2: Do you have any highlights?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Tenant one quote, the way of all peace is

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Speaker 3: to scale the mountain of self. I still like that

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Speaker 3: loving others makes the climb down easier, but then it

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00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:54,479
Speaker 3: keeps going. We see all things darkly until love lights

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00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:59,280
Speaker 3: the lamp of the soul poetry. Yeah, it's a crotch tingler.

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Speaker 3: You get the picture. Do they they do dream analysis

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00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,000
Speaker 3: via a phone or Skype? Is that still a thing? So?

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,200
Speaker 3: Twenty minute sessions start at forty nine dollars. There's an

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00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:14,440
Speaker 3: online shop that only accepts paypaler Venmo, and you can

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00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:16,800
Speaker 3: donate money to them on the website and they take

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Speaker 3: zel for that.

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Speaker 2: I figured they maybe must also take crypto, like we'll

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Speaker 2: take a stable coin or bitcoin.

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Speaker 3: Maybe not yet though, these guys are operating in the

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Speaker 3: PayPal Oh wow. Okay, So now she's got the foundation

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00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,480
Speaker 3: in the church and she and her husband decided to

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Speaker 3: do some non psychic scamming. So, according to a detailed

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Speaker 3: case summary published by the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry, Sylvia

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Speaker 3: and dal were involved in selling interest in a gold

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Speaker 3: mining venture in the late eighties. So the venture failed, no,

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Speaker 3: and bankruptcy was declared in nineteen eighty eight. So I

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Speaker 3: guess it didn't pan out. Oh oh you do it?

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Speaker 2: Are psychics? Good at finding gold? Is that like a

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00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:03,800
Speaker 2: thing that is that more likely you're a diviner and

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Speaker 2: you're like, fine, gold, Well.

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Speaker 3: Let's let's take a break because we're not done with

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Speaker 3: the gold thing.

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Speaker 2: I didn't think so.

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00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:34,240
Speaker 3: We never would be be right back, Zarenizabeth. Okay. So

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Speaker 3: Sylvia Brown and her husband Dal, they sold interest in

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Speaker 3: a gold mining venture. It fails, they declared bankruptcy. That

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00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:47,879
Speaker 3: was nineteen eighty eight. In nineteen ninety two, Sylvia and

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Speaker 3: Dal were accused of illegally selling securities that had not

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Speaker 3: been registered at the State of California, and there were

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00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,760
Speaker 3: charges of misrepresentations grand theft. Dal caught an additional fraud

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Speaker 3: chart charge. So, according to the criminal complaint, the Browns

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00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,800
Speaker 3: hustled a twenty thousand dollars investment in their gold mining

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00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,879
Speaker 3: venture by misrepresenting the financial status of the company. And

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00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,760
Speaker 3: we've seen that many times. It's going the financials. Yeah,

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00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,920
Speaker 3: it's happening as we speak. However, they weren't just trying

403
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,200
Speaker 3: to inflate the value of a company that they knew

404
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,240
Speaker 3: had legs and just needed to get off the ground.

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00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:27,120
Speaker 3: And we're looking for like an angel investor. No, yeah,

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00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,520
Speaker 3: so they picked a hit or miss industry on purpose,

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00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:34,359
Speaker 3: I think, and instead of using the money for operating expenses,

408
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:36,640
Speaker 3: they used most of it to pay off their personal

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00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 3: and corporate debt corporate meaning Nirvana Foundation, not the mining interest.

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00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,960
Speaker 3: So a few weeks later, back in eighty eight, after

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Speaker 3: they declared bankruptcy, they they didn't tell the investor ever,

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00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:55,239
Speaker 3: So it's a big nope on that, yes, yeah, and

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00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 3: so you have to give your list of creditors. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: They also told the investor the his money would be

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00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 3: recovered when the mining equipment was sold. That was false.

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00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,480
Speaker 3: In ninety three they so you flash forward when all

417
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,679
Speaker 3: this goes through legal they plead no contest to a

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00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,960
Speaker 3: felony violation of sale of securities without permit. So they

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00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 3: paid restitution. They get sentenced. Both have to serve a

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00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,520
Speaker 3: year on probation. Sylvia has to do two hundred hours

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Speaker 3: of community service as probably that's probably what she did

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00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,199
Speaker 3: well through her church. Dal he gets sentenced to one

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00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 3: hundred days in county jail. I should note that Sylvia

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00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 3: divorced Dal in eighty eight around the time of the bankruptcy,

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00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 3: kept his last name but added an E at the end.

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Speaker 3: Who knows whatever, but yeah, so she's Sylvia Brown.

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Speaker 2: Upgrade it now.

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00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, She's like, I just want a little bit of

429
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,680
Speaker 3: the on the end. But so by the nineteen nineties,

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00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:57,159
Speaker 3: Sylvia Brown is this recurring fixture on major TV talk shows,

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Speaker 3: especially The Montel Williams Show and Larry King Love Yes, Yes, Okay.

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00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:08,920
Speaker 3: She's really popular for her like dead pans, smokers, gravel voice,

433
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:13,119
Speaker 3: no nonsense. So I watched an episode of Montel with

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00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 3: her on it, and it was really, I have no idea,

435
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 3: you know how. I don't like watching videos I watched.

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00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 3: I watched so many videos for this, and I listened

437
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 3: to so many radio shows. Really it gets worse. So

438
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 3: but the episode was interesting because like audience members would

439
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 3: ask questions and it felt like she would just say

440
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 3: whatever came into her head okay, And I was like,

441
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,640
Speaker 3: she's just she's just riffing. She's jazz and I could

442
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 3: do this and that smoker's croak yeah, because a lot

443
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 3: of it's like you take a look at the person,

444
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 3: You're like, oh, I totally know what I can do.

445
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,399
Speaker 3: A lot of times though the reaction of the person

446
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:51,679
Speaker 3: asking her the question made it clear that she was

447
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,679
Speaker 3: off the mark. So like a woman was like you know,

448
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 3: I've lost some people recently and I want to know

449
00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 3: if they're okay. And Sylvia Brown's like, it was the

450
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 3: woman who was very round, and the lady just looks blank,

451
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 3: like I don't have no idea which talk about. And

452
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 3: so she's like, you know, the woman who always wore

453
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 3: an apron. The lady's just like, okay, no, and she's like,

454
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 3: you the round woman. She smells like talcum powder or lavender, nothing,

455
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 3: and she's like, well, she's not like round round. She

456
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 3: just has a soft face. And then the lady like

457
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 3: kind of slightly reacts, and then they cut to the

458
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,160
Speaker 3: next person. Really oh yeah, and she's like, she's fine,

459
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 3: she loves you.

460
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 2: Turns out she lost like three guys who.

461
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 3: Are all I think. So she's like, I've never met

462
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 3: another woman in my life, and I have no mother.

463
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 3: I was grown in a lab and so anyway, I

464
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 3: may have been born at night, but it wasn't last night.

465
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 3: So it's obvious this woman's just winging it, right. So

466
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,920
Speaker 3: they they had taped segments with people who had questions

467
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,199
Speaker 3: but were also in the audience, but it was like

468
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 3: a longer like backstory thing. One young woman said that

469
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 3: a spirit that looked like a giant monster man threw

470
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 3: her against across her dorm room and held her down

471
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 3: and then tossed her onto the other bed and she

472
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 3: was able to get the light on, but there was

473
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 3: no one there, like Exorcistyle Well, and I'm like, okay,

474
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 3: you had sleep paralysis and you might have a seizure disorder.

475
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 3: Oh but you know, like the sleep paralysis thing, like

476
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 3: being held down. I'm like, if anyone's ever had that,

477
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,360
Speaker 3: that's what that is. I'm unfamiliar the worst with ghosts,

478
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 3: you know. Yeah, And because like the first thing Sylvia

479
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 3: Brown says is like go to a doctor. She's like, oh,

480
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:31,119
Speaker 3: it's the you know, it's your great grandfather exactly. The

481
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 3: first thing was like go to a doctor. And like

482
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 3: her explanation though, was that spirits don't physically throw people.

483
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 2: That was my thought.

484
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 3: But here's my favorite. Montel backs that statement up by

485
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 3: saying that, you know, if they could throw people, the

486
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 3: victims of nine to eleven would throw Osama bin Laden

487
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 3: down the stairs.

488
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 2: Wow, the former marine really jumped out there.

489
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 3: Yeah. But Sylvia's advice is like spot on, and she's like,

490
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 3: I think you might have PTSD from something so okay,

491
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 3: you know, harmless and only mildly entertaining, Like it was

492
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 3: basically everyone in the show is asking about family or

493
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 3: friends who had died in car accidents. The time period,

494
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 3: it was weird, like I guess everyone's having car accidents

495
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 3: and saying like, are they okay, well they're dead people

496
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 3: like you know, but do they want to tell me anything?

497
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,479
Speaker 3: And every single time she's just like, they love you,

498
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 3: and they're they're happy for you, and they're proud and

499
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 3: they didn't want to leave. But it was depressing because

500
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 3: there's all these like poor suffering people and she just

501
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 3: shuffles around and the answers until she hit something that works.

502
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 2: She ever goes to anything specific, like they missed the

503
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:38,360
Speaker 2: bowling leave Yeah, no.

504
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 3: No, And she's it's just you're just watching someone bs people.

505
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,639
Speaker 3: And if you want to see that, watch me at

506
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 3: a party where I don't know anyone, but I still

507
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 3: have to make small talk. That's me.

508
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 2: I'm still browned a party.

509
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 3: So like apparently though, right now she's having a bit

510
00:26:55,160 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 3: of a renaissance online on TikTok. Yeah, they've stumbled these

511
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 3: clips of her on Montel and stuff. Mystified by the

512
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 3: brusque delivery because she's cold blood. She's like, he doesn't care,

513
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 3: like she just says, you know, and is she smoking

514
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 3: on the no, But it sounds like she just stubbed

515
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 3: one out. So I told you how she went on Montel.

516
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 3: She was also a frequent guest on that AM radio

517
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 3: show Coast to Coast with Art Bell. Yeah, that's back

518
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 3: when it was hosted by Art Bell. George Norri took

519
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:27,679
Speaker 3: it over in two thousand and three, and she was

520
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 3: on then too, or on that later I like George.

521
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:36,640
Speaker 3: Her publishing career scaled alongside this visibility publishing career. Yeah,

522
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 3: so she had all these big best sellers, Adventures of

523
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 3: a Psychic The Other Side and Back. So both of

524
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 3: those did.

525
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 2: She got into our you know, I'm a Convict book club,

526
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 2: but only off of probation.

527
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:51,919
Speaker 3: She didn't even have to go to jail and the

528
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 3: community service. Good for her, Good for her. So those

529
00:27:55,160 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 3: those two books outlined her abilities the spirit guide system cosmology,

530
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 3: and they did, you know, they did really well. I

531
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 3: bet they were published by hay House and her author

532
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 3: biography there describes her as a New York Times best

533
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 3: selling author with quote numerous popular books. They said that

534
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 3: she twenty two of which have appeared on the New

535
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 3: York Times bestseller list. Twenty two.

536
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 2: Does the New York Times ever sue anyone for saying

537
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 2: I was on New York Times bestseller.

538
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 3: Telling people all ninety seven books of mine.

539
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the swores wrote a postcard that was on

540
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 2: the New York Times bestseller list.

541
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 3: The more she got out there, the more she was

542
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 3: asked about high profile stuff. Oh and like you can

543
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 3: only watch her talk about people's dead grandmas for so long,

544
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 3: he asking her, did do it? Yeah? Well, they're like what,

545
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 3: like they wanted to know about the missing folks that

546
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 3: the public knows about and that are like being searched for,

547
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 3: like use them powers to find them? Yes, find the

548
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 3: kids in the well. Yeah. So she she talked about

549
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 3: how she and that's the thing she's on all these shows.

550
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 3: She talks about how she works with the cop the

551
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 3: FBI on all these cases which would later be found

552
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 3: to be untrue. No, so imagine her bs game like

553
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 3: on Montel, but with folks people have heard of and

554
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 3: are like following. So she's gaining fame and she's gaining critics,

555
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 3: and those critics increasingly framed her not simply as like

556
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 3: wrong sometimes, but repeatedly wrong in high stakes contexts, especially

557
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 3: missing person's case. So like the family goes to her

558
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 3: and then they waste time looking wrong. Us yes, And

559
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 3: so she's making these like confident definite on air pronouncements,

560
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 3: and she is like this comes out. She had a

561
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 3: couple big boners right in a row. Like you can

562
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 3: call a mistake a boner, right, it's early nineteen hundred slang.

563
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, its always nineteen thirty two.

564
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 3: She had some blamo boners in the early odds. So

565
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 3: the first The first was in two thousand and two. Okay,

566
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 3: and eleven year old boy named Sean Hornbeck went missing

567
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 3: while he was riding his bike to a friend's house

568
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 3: in Missouri, in Richwood's, Missouri. So when he never turned up,

569
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 3: parents call the cops. The bicycle is later found abandoned

570
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 3: near a wooded area not far from his house, and

571
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 3: the location suggested a possible abduction rather than like him

572
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 3: running away. So search efforts begin immediately, just expand local

573
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,719
Speaker 3: law enforcement volunteers, search teams they like comb through all

574
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 3: these wooded areas, tracking dogs, helicopters. Everything they search and search.

575
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 3: There's no confirmed trail. They can't find anything. They have

576
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 3: no suspects. So the case first draws regional and then

577
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 3: national media attention because of his age. You know, he's

578
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 3: like eleven and this lack of evidence, he just vanished.

579
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 3: So his parents maintained a really visible public campaign. They

580
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 3: handed out flyers, they were working with all these search

581
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 3: organizations that were focused on finding kids missing kids. Law

582
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 3: enforcement was like following all these tips, every tip that

583
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 3: comes in, but they have no viable suspects. So the

584
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 3: case starts to grow cold in terms of, like, you know,

585
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 3: any action that they can take, but it's open and

586
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 3: they keep reviewing it periodically. So during this period, his

587
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 3: parents go on national television programs looking for help and

588
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 3: like seeking exposure. And so his parents went on the

589
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 3: Montell Williams Show.

590
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 2: Just about asked.

591
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 3: Sylvia Brown is on there to do a reading about

592
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 3: the case. So Brown tells them that their son is dead,

593
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 3: and she talks about the circumstances and the perpetrator is

594
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 3: he did in that Smoker Croke. She's like, your son

595
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 3: is dead. She said he was a Hispanic man with dreadlocks.

596
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 3: It took him and she said that his body was

597
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 3: twenty miles from their house in a wooded area near

598
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 3: two jagged boulders.

599
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 2: I think was a New Yorkan.

600
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 3: So you're hearing that his parents are hearing this, and

601
00:31:55,720 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 3: like the truth is basically the opposite. This guy, Michael J. Devlin,

602
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 3: who is a pizza parlor manager from the Saint Louis

603
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 3: suburb of Kirkwood, Missouri, approached Hornback during his bike ride,

604
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 3: subdued him, took him away from the area, takes him

605
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 3: to his apartment in Kirkwood that's like sixty miles from

606
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 3: his home, and Devlin held him there for more than

607
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 3: four years. What yes, so Sean.

608
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 2: Was having his own bedroom or like he's like now

609
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 2: his son.

610
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 3: He's now yeah, and well yeah, And so Sean is

611
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,719
Speaker 3: held in the apartment, kept under tight control, given a

612
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 3: false name, has to present himself as Devlin's child in

613
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 3: public Saturday school. He's abused, he's restricted in his movement,

614
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 3: he has these threats against him if he reveals his identity.

615
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 3: And so he's living in plain sight for years. Oh god.

616
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 3: And then January eighth, two thousand and seven, Devlin abducts

617
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 3: another boy, Ben Ownbe from Missouri. Owned b disappeared while

618
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 3: walking home from school from a bus stop. So witness

619
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 3: descriptions of a white pickup truck led Lease to focus

620
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 3: on Devlin. The police located the truck traced it to Devlin.

621
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 3: January twelfth, two thousand and seven, officers go to his

622
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,479
Speaker 3: apartment with a search warrant. They find ben Ohenby alive

623
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 3: and Sean Hornbeck alive. Good. He's been missing for you know,

624
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 3: five years. So everyone came down on Sylvia Brown because

625
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 3: she was so cold about it, just like flat the

626
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 3: boys dead and this really.

627
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 2: The odds because it was completely parents believed her, but

628
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 2: they kept searching.

629
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 3: But it's like you hear this, and so they're going

630
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 3: and looking for these two jagged boulders. Horrible. Everyone starts

631
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 3: to kind of sour for a bit. On TV, cyched

632
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 3: she wasn't done. So two thousand and four, two years after,

633
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 3: she declares Sean Hornbeck dead and three years before he's

634
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 3: found alive. Oh no, she's on the Montel Williams Show again.

635
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 2: Why does he keep bringing her back?

636
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 3: Makes TV? Also on the show was Luwana Miller and

637
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,479
Speaker 3: her daughter Amanda Barry disappeared on April twenty first, two

638
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 3: thousand and three, at the age of sixteen. She had

639
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 3: a job at Burger King in Cleveland, Ohio. She was

640
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 3: you know, left work to go home. Disappears. Her case

641
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 3: got regional and then national media attention. Her mother was

642
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,359
Speaker 3: on Montel in an effort to get media exposure keep

643
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 3: the case visible. So during the segment, Brown tells Miller

644
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 3: that Amanda Berry's dead. She's like, she's not alive, honey, Like,

645
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just so flat out and all these

646
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 3: all these mainstream news outlets just keep playing that line

647
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 3: from the broadcast. Really yeah. According to CNN's transcripted coverage

648
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 3: and CBS News reporting, Brown was like that the transcript

649
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 3: says she's not alive, honey, because I couldn't find the

650
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 3: episode anyway.

651
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 2: I love that she just kind of hit the perfect

652
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 2: like rhyme or meter her or whatever. Everyone just sees

653
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:01,240
Speaker 2: on that one line.

654
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 3: So Miller is the mom is just absolutely broken and distressed,

655
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:08,800
Speaker 3: and like she's like, but you know what, she's in heaven.

656
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 3: She's at peace, and like she but she's totally like

657
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 3: this is it. I'm not speculating like I feel like

658
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 3: it or like odds are She's like, no, this is

659
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 3: the facts. And so she also kind of goes into

660
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 3: like the circumstances of how the daughter died. Oh no, yeah,

661
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:30,240
Speaker 3: so obviously the mother's devastated. The clip shows her crying,

662
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 3: She's visibly shaken. Miller continues searching for her daughter afterward,

663
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 3: but family members later said that that like psychic pronouncement,

664
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 3: caused this horrible grief for her. She died in two

665
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 3: thousand and six, like holding the pain of the loss

666
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 3: of her child. In May of twenty thirteen, Amanda Berry's

667
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 3: found alive. She escaped from a Cleveland house where she'd

668
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 3: been held captive for a decade by Ariel Castro. That

669
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,879
Speaker 3: guy has Two other women were rescued her. The McDonald's right, yeah,

670
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 3: And it turns out she watched Montelle in captivity? Does

671
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 3: she see that? And she used to wish that her

672
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 3: mom would go on there so that Sylvia Brown could

673
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 3: be like, she's okay, she's alive, She's gonna be okay. No,

674
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 3: Sylvia tells her mom that she's dead, and Amanda said, quote,

675
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 3: I just broke down crying because I can't believe she

676
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 3: said that, and my mother episode Yeah, then my mom

677
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 3: broke down crying, so that hurt even worse.

678
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:30,879
Speaker 2: Oh, my God, this mother goes to her rest with

679
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 2: ever's own yes.

680
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 3: No, yeah. So after the rescue news organizations rediscovered and

681
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 3: rebroadcast that Montell segment, the clip just spreads everywhere national

682
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 3: international media online platforms as this example of like a

683
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 3: high confidence psychic claim that's proven false, so she's found alive.

684
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 3: The clip resurfaces, Montell Williams is like starts publicly distancing

685
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 3: himself from her. In public statements reported by all these

686
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 3: major outlets, he said that Sylvia Brown had not been

687
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 3: on his show for several years, and he didn't rely

688
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 3: on or endorse psychic determinations in criminal matters. So I

689
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 3: think you and I have mentioned briefly in passing the

690
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,439
Speaker 3: radio show Coast to Coast Amy. It's a late night

691
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 3: radio talk show that goes heavy on discussions of the

692
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 3: paranormal conspiracy theory.

693
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 2: Oh yes, the supernatural. The Kennedy assassination at all times

694
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 2: was sood from the sea, from the sky everything.

695
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 3: It was hosted by Art Bell, who created it from

696
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty eight to two thousand and three and then

697
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 3: hosting duties transferred over to the current host, George Neuri.

698
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:44,720
Speaker 3: Now it existed pre nineteen eighty eight on like radio

699
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 3: stations in like the Southwest. Yeah, he was coming out

700
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 3: of Peru and exactly. And so Sylvia Brown was a

701
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 3: frequent guest, and they'd talked to her about prognostications for

702
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 3: the coming year or like the ins and outs of

703
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 3: dealing with the spirit world. And that the show goes

704
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 3: on for like four hours.

705
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 2: It's a long time.

706
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 3: Yeah. So the first hour or two, the host chats

707
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 3: with the guest, and then they go to the phones

708
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 3: and take calls for the rest. So January second, two

709
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 3: thousand and six, an explosion occurred at the Sago mine

710
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 3: in Upshur County, West Virginia. Thirteen miners were trapped underground.

711
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 3: So in the first hours after the blast, information was

712
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:28,280
Speaker 3: like muddled and confused and inconsistent, and the families gathered

713
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 3: at this church near the site awaiting news. Yeah, and

714
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 3: so in the early morning of January fourth, all these

715
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 3: news outlets briefly and incorrectly reported that twelve miners had

716
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 3: been found alive, and that was false. In reality, only

717
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 3: one had survived and twelve others had died from carbon.

718
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 2: Monoxide plays they flipped.

719
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, So Sylvia Brown appeared overnight on coast to Coast

720
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,800
Speaker 3: between when the disaster happened and when the tragedy was revealed,

721
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 3: and so during this specific appearance, she was asked about

722
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 3: the face to the trapped miners while rescue efforts were

723
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 3: still underway, and like the facts weren't confirmed. I listened

724
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:10,800
Speaker 3: to this almost the whole episode, and then the next

725
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 3: day the thing for this show, I know, I care

726
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 3: too much. And so she she says with confidence that

727
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 3: the trap miners are alive, and like her comments are

728
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 3: framed as psychic insight rather than speculation. So saren it

729
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 3: was like the longest four hours of my life listening

730
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 3: to this thing. So there are ways to parse what

731
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,280
Speaker 3: she said if you look at it solely the words

732
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 3: of it, but it's the way that she says it

733
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 3: like that leaves well, like she's like, oh, yeah, I

734
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 3: knew they'd be found, And so then she tries to

735
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 3: play it found no, like their bodies would be found. No, no, no,

736
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 3: the way you said it found alive.

737
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 2: Oh I got you.

738
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,760
Speaker 3: So there's no doubt that she was positive they were alive,

739
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,799
Speaker 3: and as a result of her blowing this, they got

740
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 3: really upset. On Coast to Coast, George is like, really

741
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 3: pissed off towards the end of that episode, and then

742
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 3: the next day he's talking about it, and as a result,

743
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 3: she gets banned from coast to coast. Good for you,

744
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 3: George exactly.

745
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 2: I interviewed him once and I got a sense it

746
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 2: was a good guy. Even though he's really curious and

747
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,760
Speaker 2: open minded and entertain things a lot of people won't,

748
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 2: he still seems decent.

749
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 3: One of the things I realized in listening to these episodes,

750
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:26,359
Speaker 3: like some of the old Art Bell ones with her

751
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 3: in these, is that they really like the stuff they're

752
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 3: talking about in terms of environmental issues and like global

753
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,919
Speaker 3: climate change. They sounded kooky at the time, but they're

754
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 3: right now. You know, we start looking at like weird

755
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 3: like conspiracy rings of high powered people, and it's like

756
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 3: we brush them off, and.

757
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:53,320
Speaker 2: Oh man, Art Bell is gonna be right about the aliens.

758
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 3: Too, Like wait a second, pyramids, Okay, so she's out

759
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 3: of there. Don't darken our doorway again. Eighty six. Because

760
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 3: her Coast Coast AM statements were made close to like

761
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 3: the peak of uncertainty, you know, critics were like, well maybe,

762
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 3: but at the same time, like, no, she could have

763
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 3: said if she really knew if she really was a psychic.

764
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 3: So this and a bunch of other bad predictions and

765
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 3: false statement like sent up a red flag for the

766
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 3: eighteen And that's the Committee for Scientific Investigation of Claims

767
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 3: of the Paranormal, helmed by none other than James Randy.

768
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:33,359
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, engines pumping. Let's take a break and when

769
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 3: we come back, Sylvia Brown versus the amazing Randy.

770
00:41:36,920 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 4: Yes, all right, Zaren Darren, you're going to say that

771
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 4: I've been working on my psychic powers during a break.

772
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,879
Speaker 2: It's like, say my name, how did you know I'm so.

773
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 3: Good at you're so good at that? James Randy he

774
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:17,800
Speaker 3: was a Canadian American magician, a scape artist, and scientific skeptic,

775
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:22,320
Speaker 3: best known for investigating and publicly challenging paranormal and pseudo

776
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 3: scientific names.

777
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 2: A skeptic with a good sensation, and he used.

778
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,280
Speaker 3: To say, I'm not He didn't call himself a magician.

779
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 3: He called himself a conjurer because he's like, there's no

780
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:30,800
Speaker 3: magic involved.

781
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 2: I was going to correct you, but I didn't want

782
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 2: to thank you.

783
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 3: So he started his career as like a stage magician

784
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:41,360
Speaker 3: slash conjurer escape artist. In the forties and fifties and

785
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 3: he performed under the name the Amazing Randy, and he

786
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 3: was inspired by Harry Houdini. He did these like specialized

787
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,279
Speaker 3: like escape acts, illusion work, and then he got, you know,

788
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 3: work on TV. He did a lot of live performances.

789
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,919
Speaker 3: By the sixties and seventies, though he shifted focus toward

790
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 3: investigating paranormal claims, and he used his knowledge of conjuring

791
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 3: techniques to explain how all these like supposed psychic feats

792
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,920
Speaker 3: could be simulated by trickery, yeah, slight of handstype, and

793
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 3: he talked about cold readings and hot readings for psychics.

794
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 3: And so he became really widely known for scrutinizing high

795
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 3: profile paranormal figures faith healers, most notably as you mentioned

796
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,720
Speaker 3: Uri Geller, Yeah, the spoon Bender, and then Peter pop

797
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 3: Off I talked about him, Yes, that's right. So he

798
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:35,439
Speaker 3: would demonstrate through controlled tests and media investigations how their

799
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 3: effects could be duplicated or explained, and then he all

800
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:44,760
Speaker 3: his investigations were in books, TV appearances, lectures. Johnny Carson

801
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 3: loved to.

802
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,800
Speaker 2: Have Johnny Carson loved him. Then later on the magician

803
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 2: Ricky j and Pennin teller who kind of just inherited

804
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 2: his traditions exactly.

805
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 3: So in nineteen ninety six he founded the James Randy

806
00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 3: Educational Foundation, which created the Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge, and

807
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 3: the challenge offered a million bucks to anyone who could

808
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:10,720
Speaker 3: demonstrate paranormal ability under agreed controlled conditions, and the challenge

809
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:14,880
Speaker 3: rules and the purpose were widely published and repeatedly covered

810
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 3: in mainstream media, so everyone knew about this. During this

811
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:21,480
Speaker 3: same period, Sylvia Brown, She's coming up through the media ranks,

812
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 3: and because she made specific, testable paranormal claims on national television,

813
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 3: she became one of Randy's most frequent examples when he

814
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 3: was talking about why controlled testing is necessary. So throughout

815
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 3: the nineties in the early two thousands, Randy repeatedly criticized

816
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:44,720
Speaker 3: Sylvia Brown's claims in interviews, lectures, all his published commentaries.

817
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 3: He said that her claims were empirical and testable, but

818
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 3: she was avoiding these controlled tests, and that her televised

819
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 3: readings used common cold reading techniques. So that's when you're

820
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 3: just like phishing basically.

821
00:44:57,800 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then you wait to sew they react.

822
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 3: Yeah. Hot reading is when you do a little bit

823
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:04,319
Speaker 3: of background information ahead of time and then you can

824
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 3: kind of, you know, to reach research them to know

825
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:07,320
Speaker 3: what you're going into.

826
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 2: Someone's feeding.

827
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, or his example, there was one example from some

828
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 3: TV psychic that I think was on This was a

829
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 3: John Oliver special about TV psychics, but he was explaining

830
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:24,320
Speaker 3: how there's this reality show psychic who gave Matt Lauer

831
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 3: a reading and was like, you know, I'm seeing something

832
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 3: with phishing and that's important. He's like, it was really

833
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,359
Speaker 3: important my dad and I fishing, And then they were

834
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 3: demonstrating that the hot reading on that is that the

835
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 3: guy could have googled Matt Lauer and there's a ton

836
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 3: of articles where he's like.

837
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:39,799
Speaker 2: I love fishing with.

838
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:45,280
Speaker 3: Totally. So Sylvia Brown, like she's using these cold reading

839
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 3: techniques and her track record on verifiable cases was terrible.

840
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 3: So like, you know, is my grandma okay? On the

841
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 3: other side, Yeah, she loves you and she's looking down

842
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 3: on you and she's happy. That's one thing, But like

843
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 3: you know, Amanda Barry dead, honey, he's yeah. So the

844
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 3: criticisms appeared in skeptical Inquirer articles like his publication. In

845
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 3: his lectures, he and other skeptical investigators also pointed to

846
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 3: all her felony, securities, convictions, and for the saying they're like,

847
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:22,719
Speaker 3: she's not credible, look at that like that, you know,

848
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 3: speaks to her lack of integrity. Credible. It's the convictions exactly.

849
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 3: So both James Randy and Sylvia Brown were regular guests

850
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 3: on CNN's Larry King Live, so it was only a

851
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:37,400
Speaker 3: matter of time before they collide. There matadoran bull meeting

852
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 3: in the arena. Zaren, close your eyes. I want you

853
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 3: to close. It's September third, two thousand and one. You

854
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 3: work at CNN Studio in Los Angeles in a very

855
00:46:56,040 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 3: specialized position. You are Larry King's spe archivist. You catalog track,

856
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 3: acchoire and maintain the hundreds of pairs of suspenders Larry

857
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 3: King has in his stable of braces. You've chosen for

858
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 3: him today, a pair in aubergine, but an aubergine's so

859
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 3: dark it reads as black. They pair nicely with his

860
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 3: salmon colored shirt and green and black striped tie, or

861
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 3: so you are telling yourself. You watch him in the

862
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:27,319
Speaker 3: monitor and you're thankful you are only responsible for the suspenders.

863
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 3: You're in a commercial break right now. Studio staff whisper

864
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:35,360
Speaker 3: and make adjustments to lights or microphones. Larry's guest tonight

865
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 3: is that psychic Sylvia Brown. She's unassuming in her blonde

866
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:43,280
Speaker 3: page boy bob black sweater and dangling earrings. She sits

867
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:45,799
Speaker 3: in her chair and looks at her nails. Larry takes

868
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 3: a sip of coffee from his mug on a huge

869
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 3: monitor facing Larry and Sylvia and broadcast of viewers. When

870
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 3: you come back from commercial is James Randy. He's appearing

871
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 3: from Miami via satellite. You love this guy, no nonsense.

872
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:02,880
Speaker 3: He's wearing a suit and his white beard is fluffy

873
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 3: and neat. You can't tell if he's got on suspenders

874
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 3: under that suit jacket. God, you'd give anything to find out.

875
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 3: You'd love to know what he's working with. Is there

876
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 3: any stretch to the material? Maybe silk leather? Is he

877
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 3: a y back guy or an xback? Maybe one day

878
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:20,319
Speaker 3: you'll get to meet him in person and ask. The

879
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,959
Speaker 3: producer gives a signal that the ad break is ending

880
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 3: and you're about to go on live, and in five

881
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 3: four three that's your cue to step out into the hall.

882
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:32,800
Speaker 3: You lean against the wall and stare off into the distance.

883
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:35,959
Speaker 3: People walk back and forth, guy drops a big stack

884
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 3: of books and you help him pick him up. Above you,

885
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 3: the on air light glows red against the ceiling. You

886
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 3: look through the window into the soundproof studio. There seems

887
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 3: to be a tense exchange between Randy and Brown. You

888
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:50,839
Speaker 3: usually tune the stuff out because so much of it

889
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 3: is just manufactured for TV, but Randy is serious. He's

890
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 3: not one for stunts. You really wish you were in there. Finally,

891
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:00,760
Speaker 3: they wrap and you head back into a company Larry

892
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 3: and his suspenders to his dressing room. The two of

893
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:05,799
Speaker 3: you walked down the hall and you ask how it

894
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:08,840
Speaker 3: went well. He tells you Randy really put her on

895
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 3: the spot to do his million dollar challenge, the one

896
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:14,880
Speaker 3: with the control groups and such, And you ask she

897
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 3: said she'd do it? She said she agreed, and I

898
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 3: told him we can host it on our website or

899
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 3: whatever they need. She kept saying it didn't bother her,

900
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 3: didn't bother her, That's why she came on the show.

901
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 3: But I wasn't buying it. I got her to say

902
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:30,239
Speaker 3: she agreed to the conditions. Well, see what happens. You

903
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 3: reach the dressing room and Larry turns his back to you.

904
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 3: You reach down and gently unbutton the back of his suspenders.

905
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 3: He's a why back guy. Larry unbuttons the front tabs

906
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:43,239
Speaker 3: from inside his waistband. You gingerly lift the suspenders from

907
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 3: his shoulders, smoothly fold them over your arm, and walked

908
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:48,720
Speaker 3: to the side table where their box has been waiting

909
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 3: since Larry got dressed for tonight's episode. See you tomorrow, kid,

910
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 3: Larry says, and you nod and head out to the

911
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 3: suspender room. This is Aaron.

912
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:00,319
Speaker 2: I love that he has an archiveoist. And then I'm

913
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 2: imagining him like walking out with loose pants.

914
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 3: Because it's like.

915
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 2: Dropped the grass backly he walks out in the shorts.

916
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 3: So as you went to Sarah. During the broadcast, Randy

917
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 3: publicly challenged Sylvia Brown to take the million dollar Paranormal

918
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:22,239
Speaker 3: Challenge and she was, she said on air. She accepted it,

919
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 3: and then he was like, it's available. You will be

920
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:31,839
Speaker 3: tested under mutually agreed you know, controlled conditions. She responds affirmatively, Yes,

921
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 3: I'll do it. So following that Larry King Live episode,

922
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 3: the James Randy Educational Foundation said that it was working

923
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:43,399
Speaker 3: with Brown's representatives to set up a formal test protocol

924
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 3: that was consistent with the challenge rules, and that a

925
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 3: preliminary protocol had been negotiated and they scheduled a test date.

926
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 3: Brown didn't show up. No, I mean, obviously there's no test.

927
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 3: So I would like to make note that the Larry

928
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 3: King live appearance was on September third, two thousand and one,

929
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:08,400
Speaker 3: and Sylvia Brown had no message about anything that was

930
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:13,800
Speaker 3: coming in the next week. That's interesting, that's curious, Sylvia.

931
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:16,719
Speaker 2: So on me, it'll be a really strong nexus of

932
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:19,680
Speaker 2: energy around about a week and a day from now.

933
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, Sylvia, are you feeling anything in the No. No,

934
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 3: but your grandmother says hi. So in May sixty she's dead, honey.

935
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:34,280
Speaker 3: May sixteen, two three is horrible. Almost three years after

936
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 3: she accepted the throwdown, she goes on Larry King again

937
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:40,399
Speaker 3: and she had to admit she still hadn't taken Randy's test.

938
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 3: Why hadn't she done it? Well, she's like, you know what,

939
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:45,440
Speaker 3: Randy won't put the prize money in escrow.

940
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 2: Oh got him on a technicality.

941
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:49,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, Randy's like, okay, let's go. So he sends her

942
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 3: a notarized copy of the prize account status where the

943
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:55,920
Speaker 3: balance is more than a million dollars. She wouldn't accept

944
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:59,319
Speaker 3: the letter, and so in two thousand and five, she's like,

945
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:01,759
Speaker 3: you know, I know forgot any confirmation that there was

946
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 3: any prize money, and like, do you think you can

947
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 3: mess with the amazing Randy?

948
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:10,799
Speaker 2: The giant check at her door that's actually a certified.

949
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 3: Receipt of James Randy was ready. He had a certified

950
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:18,320
Speaker 3: mail receipt showing that she refused to accept the letter.

951
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 3: So in two thousand and seven, the whole mess winds

952
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 3: up on CNN again, this time on Anderson Cooper three

953
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,839
Speaker 3: point sixty. Did I watch the episode? Of course they did.

954
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 3: There's lots of cross talk and accusations, but it wasn't Sylvia.

955
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:35,879
Speaker 3: It was her business manager, Linda Rossi, trying to take

956
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:39,239
Speaker 3: on James Randy and like she was not here for it.

957
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:42,200
Speaker 3: She said that Sylvia didn't have to participate in the

958
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:45,680
Speaker 3: challenge because she quote has nothing to prove to James Randy,

959
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:49,880
Speaker 3: and James Randy's like, yeah, I know she doesn't, and

960
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 3: then she's like attacking him for being an atheist. And

961
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:56,880
Speaker 3: Anderson had a chastiser for using quote high school debate

962
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:00,319
Speaker 3: tactics like ad hominem attack. Yeah, Yeah.

963
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 2: It was amazing, a good dismissive insult, and it was like.

964
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:10,400
Speaker 3: I had forgotten about the old Anderson Cooper was wild. Yeah.

965
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 3: So Sylvia Brown, she keeps publishing and touring into the

966
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 3: twenty tens, she released additional spiritual and psychic titles through

967
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:22,319
Speaker 3: Hayhouse and like other related publishers. And she's talking about

968
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:26,839
Speaker 3: like prophecy, spirit communication, health, intuition, and then she gets

969
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:29,240
Speaker 3: into like end time scenarios.

970
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:29,879
Speaker 2: Yeah.

971
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:34,960
Speaker 3: Well she said something about a pandemic hitting in twenty

972
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:39,480
Speaker 3: twenty in one of those books. Really yeah, and folks like, well,

973
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:42,920
Speaker 3: she was gone by then. Folks like Kim Kardashian referenced

974
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:45,359
Speaker 3: it when COVID hit. They're like, oh, look at this book.

975
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 3: Ya course, But when you look at it in the

976
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:50,839
Speaker 3: context of what she was talking about, she was more

977
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:57,879
Speaker 3: referring to avian flu i. But see, here's the thing, though,

978
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:00,319
Speaker 3: a ton of expert had been sounding the alarm about

979
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:03,799
Speaker 3: this for a while now, about a global pandemic. Again,

980
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:06,720
Speaker 3: she was playing the odds, yeah, exactly. So she remained

981
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 3: affiliated with her Gnostic church, continued private readings and events.

982
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:15,160
Speaker 3: She died on November twentieth, twenty thirteen. In California at

983
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:20,359
Speaker 3: age seventy seven. Her son, Chris Dufrain, carries on her

984
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:21,280
Speaker 3: psychic legacy.

985
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 2: Naturally, someone got to He's got.

986
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 3: A website, Chris RightNow dot com. And I was going

987
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 3: to copy and paste his about Chris section here to

988
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 3: read to you. But when you write click on his

989
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 3: website and message box pops up that says alert copyright

990
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 3: twenty twenty by Sylvia Brown Group, Incorporated. Well guess what, Chris,

991
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 3: I use image to text, so I took a screenshot

992
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 3: so I wouldn't have to hand transcribe it. This is

993
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:50,279
Speaker 3: for journalism. My good dude, that's You'm not breaking any copyrights.

994
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 3: So now I'm going to read it to you. Go

995
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:55,840
Speaker 3: to the website and do the same thing. Internationally recognized

996
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 3: psychic and author Chris Dufrain has been in professional practice

997
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 3: for over thirty years, helping countless people. Chris is the

998
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:07,279
Speaker 3: son of world renowned psychic, author, lecturer, and researcher, the

999
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 3: late Sylvia Brown. Chris's lineage includes over three hundred years

1000
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:17,160
Speaker 3: of practicing psychics, including individuals involved in the field of parapsychology.

1001
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 3: Like his mother, Chris is also an award winning author.

1002
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 3: He has written seven books, two of which have appeared

1003
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:27,839
Speaker 3: on the New York Times bestseller List. Chris Dufrain has

1004
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:31,120
Speaker 3: also appeared on several TV programs over the years, such

1005
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:37,799
Speaker 3: as People Are Talking, Base, City Limits, Northwest Afternoon, Unsolved Mysteries,

1006
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:41,719
Speaker 3: and The Montel Williams Show. He has also been a

1007
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:45,440
Speaker 3: featured guest on countless radio shows. Chris is very involved

1008
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 3: with his community, giving back any chance he gets. His

1009
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 3: primary goal in life is to help people with his

1010
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 3: gift through readings booked on his website and live question

1011
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:58,000
Speaker 3: and answer segments on social media. You can find recordings

1012
00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:00,400
Speaker 3: of Chris on his YouTube channel. You can watch one

1013
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:03,920
Speaker 3: of his frequent live YouTube Q and as meet and greets,

1014
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 3: as well as teaches courses in hypnotherapy but apparently doesn't

1015
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:08,360
Speaker 3: have an editor.

1016
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:11,440
Speaker 2: Or you can check his real estate seminari, which he also.

1017
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 3: Since Sylvia's passing, Chris is embarked on his own path,

1018
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:19,279
Speaker 3: including lectures throughout the country, radio podcasts, and television appearances.

1019
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 3: In this way, he continues his mother's legacy, bringing spiritual

1020
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:26,440
Speaker 3: awareness to our world, as well as his own personal

1021
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:29,239
Speaker 3: messages of hope, peace and love in his own way,

1022
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:33,200
Speaker 3: like if You parsel those sentences.

1023
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:35,600
Speaker 2: He definitely needs more than an editor. He needs also

1024
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 2: a BS detector.

1025
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 3: I'll be yeah, yeah, Zaren, what's your ridiculous takeaway?

1026
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:44,719
Speaker 2: Like I have to say this often, but like the

1027
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 2: world is so glad I decided not to become a

1028
00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:50,839
Speaker 2: con man or a charlatan because I would hire you

1029
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 2: as my editor.

1030
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:52,160
Speaker 3: I would have the.

1031
00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:55,320
Speaker 2: Good website, people would believe it. I've done enough research

1032
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:57,719
Speaker 2: over the years. I know the language they want, and

1033
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 2: like I wouldn't be so just patent agreed greedy about it,

1034
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:04,440
Speaker 2: Like I wouldn't be out there She's dad, honey, you know,

1035
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 2: like you gotta have a little like grace with this.

1036
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:12,080
Speaker 2: You give people an emotional story. So I say, what's ridiculous?

1037
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:16,160
Speaker 2: My takeaway for this is, thank God I don't want

1038
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:18,120
Speaker 2: to be a con person because if this is the

1039
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:22,040
Speaker 2: bar to clear, right, Sylvia Brown is not that like

1040
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 2: I can think I could trip over that bar.

1041
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 3: I just I feel like I'm gonna go ahead and

1042
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 3: tell my ridiculous take Ok, Yeah, what is yours Elizabeth

1043
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:31,960
Speaker 3: for once? I you know, I think about a lot

1044
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:34,920
Speaker 3: of psychic stuff that you see. They're really kind of

1045
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:38,200
Speaker 3: heavy on the self help because that's basically what they're doing. Yes,

1046
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 3: that's what they can make their money. Reading is it's

1047
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 3: like you can tell who people are asking about, like

1048
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 3: you know, and there's big patterns usually sure exactly, But

1049
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 3: when you take it that step too far. It's one

1050
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:53,480
Speaker 3: thing when it's a novelty and you're basically reassuring someone

1051
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:56,280
Speaker 3: like yeah, you know what a horoscope, you lost your

1052
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:58,640
Speaker 3: you lost your dad, but you know what, like if

1053
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 3: if someone has a good relationship with her father and says,

1054
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:06,960
Speaker 3: does he send me messages? He's still there, you're not

1055
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:09,320
Speaker 3: going to say like yeah, they're like no, I hate him.

1056
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:12,040
Speaker 3: You know. It's like the very question tells you everything

1057
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:15,000
Speaker 3: you need to do, saying never buy a Chevy, and

1058
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:18,480
Speaker 3: you're reassuring that person. And so I think that there

1059
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:21,600
Speaker 3: sometimes people you know, maybe don't want to do a

1060
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 3: lot of self reflection or can't you are not emotionally

1061
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:27,640
Speaker 3: developed to do it. And if this gives them a

1062
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:30,960
Speaker 3: way to feel good and like kind of you know,

1063
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:34,320
Speaker 3: develop out their feelings on things, that's one thing. But

1064
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 3: to god, the taking advantage she's dead, honey.

1065
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:39,919
Speaker 2: Well, it's like the tarot cards and the horoscopes. The

1066
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 2: real power of those is when you kind of project

1067
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:46,320
Speaker 2: onto it and you end up interpreting what you already feel.

1068
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 2: So it's a way to just kind of conjure up

1069
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 2: your own intuition, you know what I mean, if you

1070
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 2: fit the pattern with what you think will occur, or

1071
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:55,640
Speaker 2: what you're worried about, or what you're feeling but not saying. Yeah,

1072
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:58,000
Speaker 2: So they actually have some value as like a diagnostic

1073
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:00,640
Speaker 2: tool for yourself if you're really to go with.

1074
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:03,040
Speaker 3: It and I want to believe in like woo wooh.

1075
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:05,760
Speaker 3: There are different degrees of it. I think that you

1076
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:09,120
Speaker 3: can't say like with certainty with certainty, but I think

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Speaker 3: that you know, you definitely get like feelings of some

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00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:13,920
Speaker 3: more than others.

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Speaker 2: You know, some people can't really blow you away, you know,

1080
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 2: Like I've heard numerous stories where I'm like, Okay, I'm

1081
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:21,919
Speaker 2: willing to believe you. If you listen to a couple

1082
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:24,280
Speaker 2: of old exorcists sit around and tell you stories, You're like,

1083
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:26,880
Speaker 2: there's something I don't know what it is, but you

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00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:27,320
Speaker 2: guys are.

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Speaker 3: If I've learned anything from Art Bell, don't dismiss twenty

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00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:36,720
Speaker 3: years and then we'll find out. Yeah, you know what

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00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:39,240
Speaker 3: I think we need now? Is it? Talk back. I

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00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:46,360
Speaker 3: was gonna say lemon cookies, well and lemon cookies. Oh

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00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 3: my god, I.

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Speaker 5: Want hello, my beloved Ridiculous crimbing through. This is Kelly

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00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 5: from Madison. I recently found out that my favorite screwball

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01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 5: cop from the Police Academy Movies, one Stephen Gutenberg, got

1093
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:16,800
Speaker 5: his start in showbiz buying. It's a fascinating story. I

1094
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 5: won't ruin it here, but I highly recommend checking it out.

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01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:20,800
Speaker 3: It'd be great to hear.

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01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:24,920
Speaker 5: About on the show. But Stephen Gutenberg Crime, Wait.

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01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 2: A minute, does he have like a Tim Allen like story?

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01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:30,920
Speaker 2: Flip a coin, See he gets the guten.

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01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:39,040
Speaker 3: That's amazing. Okay, thank you for that. You're already writing titles.

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01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:42,240
Speaker 3: I see what you do. That's it for today. You

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01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:45,880
Speaker 3: can find us online at Ridiculous Crime dot com. We're

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01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:49,720
Speaker 3: also at Ridiculous Crime on Blue Sky and on Instagram,

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01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:53,439
Speaker 3: and we're on YouTube at Ridiculous Crime Pod. You can

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01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:56,080
Speaker 3: email us at Ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com, and

1105
01:00:56,160 --> 01:00:59,120
Speaker 3: you can leave a talk back on the iHeart app

1106
01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:01,160
Speaker 3: and we would love it. I appreciate it. Reach out.

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01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 3: Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Zaren Burnett.

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01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:13,640
Speaker 3: Produced and edited by Dave. She's Dead Honey Kusten, starring

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01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:17,120
Speaker 3: Annals Rutger. This Judith Research is by Coast to Coast

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01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 3: AM host under study Marissa Brown and the star of

1111
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:24,400
Speaker 3: A and E's Psychic Pancakes with Jabbari Jabari Davis. The

1112
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 3: theme song is by Guy Who Drank two gallons of

1113
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:29,480
Speaker 3: milk in ten minutes and Can See the Future Thomas

1114
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:33,080
Speaker 3: Lee and star of the One Man Show, Ragtime Skeptics,

1115
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:37,040
Speaker 3: Dance Review Delight Travis Dutton. Post wardrobe is provided by

1116
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:40,920
Speaker 3: Botany five hundred. Guest Haron, makeup by Sparkleshot and Mister Andre.

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01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:45,800
Speaker 3: Executive producers are Cia Plant, Ben Bollen and UFO Mechanic

1118
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:55,800
Speaker 3: Noel Brown. QUI Say It One More Time?

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01:01:57,200 --> 01:02:01,480
Speaker 1: QUI Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio. Four more

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Speaker 1: podcasts from my heart Radio. Visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:07,040
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.