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Speaker 1: Revenge porn, also known as non consensual pornography or image

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Speaker 1: based abuse, is a disturbing and widespread problem that affects

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Speaker 1: approximately one in ten women. It is a deeply troubling

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Speaker 1: abuse that has emerged in a digital age, where intimate

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Speaker 1: images or videos are shared without the explicit consent of

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Speaker 1: the individual's portrayed. This act of malicious behavior is often

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Speaker 1: utilized by perpetrators as a means to exert control, seek revenge,

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Speaker 1: or certain power over their former partners or acquaintances. We

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Speaker 1: are privileged to have a distinguished guest joining us today.

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Speaker 1: She is not only an Emmy Award win a television

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Speaker 1: personality filmmaker, and former NBC News anchor, but also a

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Speaker 1: highly accomplished author and life coach. My guest will share

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Speaker 1: her personal journey of survival and resilience in the face

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Speaker 1: of revenge porn. So, so, my guests, how are you

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Speaker 1: doing today?

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Speaker 2: I'm doing great? Thanks. Sebene's so glad to be here

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Speaker 2: with you.

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Speaker 3: Me too.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited to have you on a show, y'all.

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Speaker 1: She is a whole legend. She just gave me some

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Speaker 1: kudos so that my show is amazing. So I feel

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Speaker 1: really good.

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Speaker 2: As you should.

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Speaker 3: You've got such a beautiful lineup of guests and topics.

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Speaker 3: I hope folks are gobbling it up and really enjoying

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Speaker 3: what you're producing.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you. Now, as a public figure, did

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Speaker 1: you ever experience any hesitation when it came to sharing

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Speaker 1: your story?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean this particular story and how the work

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Speaker 3: that has evolved out of the documentary Fifty Shades of Silence,

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Speaker 3: the website fifty Shades of Silence dot Com, and my

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Speaker 3: overall mission to help support victims of cyberbullying and revenge

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Speaker 3: porn forced me into a.

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Speaker 2: Place of having to share a.

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Speaker 3: Very private and scary and frankly embarrassing moment and story

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Speaker 3: in my life.

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Speaker 2: And you would think that.

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Speaker 3: You know, I've spent over thirty years in the media,

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Speaker 3: I've told countless stories. But when I made the headlines

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Speaker 3: and the story was all about me and my naked

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Speaker 3: body being spread across the internet at the hands of

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Speaker 3: an ex boyfriend who was trying to get back of me, yeah,

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Speaker 3: like I totally I did not want to share that.

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Speaker 3: I sat in silence and shamed for a very long

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Speaker 3: time and that was killing me. So I knew I

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Speaker 3: needed to end my silence and use my voice to

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Speaker 3: not only speak out for myself, but for hundreds of

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Speaker 3: thousands of people who are experiencing revenge porn in this

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Speaker 3: type of cyber bullying.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: Were you aware of this concept called revenge porn experience?

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Speaker 3: Is it?

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Speaker 2: Nope?

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Speaker 3: You know, I thought this was only happening to me.

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Speaker 3: I'd never heard of this. Oh yeah, like I When

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Speaker 3: I started doing my research and saw the number of

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Speaker 3: people who were having these types of experiences, it was

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Speaker 3: mind blowing. And even after I went public and I

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Speaker 3: started to get emails and Facebook messages and Instagram messages

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Speaker 3: from people who are like, oh my god, this has

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Speaker 3: happened to me. And you know, we knew that there

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Speaker 3: was a title around it, revenge porn. I was, I

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Speaker 3: think that's such a salacious term. I didn't make it up,

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Speaker 3: but it was certainly that had a headline that would work.

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Speaker 2: And I was clueless.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I you know, here, I am a professional

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Speaker 3: adult woman who had a very successful life as a

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Speaker 3: life and business coach and a television news anchor, and

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Speaker 3: the last thing that I wanted to do was to

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Speaker 3: be embroidled in this type of a scandal. And it

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Speaker 3: was very personal, like it was truly personal and so,

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Speaker 3: but that is that was So that's indicative of the

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Speaker 3: nature of the perpetrators in these types of crimes. And

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Speaker 3: you know, I've heard from thousands of women who have

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Speaker 3: told me that they've experienced this primarily at the hands

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Speaker 3: of a boyfriend or a husband or an ex husband

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Speaker 3: who's looking to try and take control of them, and

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Speaker 3: so they put out their intimate information, photos, videos onto

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Speaker 3: the Internet with the attempt to try and hurt them

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Speaker 3: and shame them and ridicule them. And it works because

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Speaker 3: nobody wants to be shamed.

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Speaker 2: In that way.

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Speaker 1: It's always a man. It's always a man.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I will point out though that that

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Speaker 3: you know, predominantly the perpetrators are male, but there are

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Speaker 3: females who do this as well.

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Speaker 2: So I don't want to totally point the thin red

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Speaker 2: men even though they mostly are. They you know, people

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Speaker 2: involved in this, right.

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Speaker 1: So, what are some other misconceptions when it comes to

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Speaker 1: revenge porn, because I feel like that is a good misconception.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people think that only men do this,

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Speaker 1: but women doesn't do this as well.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 3: I think one of the biggest ones again is that

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Speaker 3: the term in it a itself is quite salacious revenge porn.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: In my case, I'll speak to this, and then I'll

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Speaker 3: talk about the misconception is I didn't pose for these photos.

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Speaker 3: My ex boy I was living with him in Jamaica.

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Speaker 3: He had been secretly taking photos and videos of me

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Speaker 3: while I was asleep naked, and when we ended the relationship,

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Speaker 3: he wanted me to come back to the relationship and

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Speaker 3: he used this as a weapon. He put those images

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Speaker 3: out onto a website and on social media and said

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Speaker 3: he would not remove them until I returned to the relationship.

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Speaker 3: What I found after I went publicly produced the documentary

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Speaker 3: and the Ted Talk and all of the media were

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Speaker 3: women who were coming to me and saying, again, this

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Speaker 3: has happened to me, and I didn't pose for this.

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Speaker 3: This isn't like poornography, even though the.

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Speaker 2: Title is as important.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and so when you ask the question about misconceptions,

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Speaker 3: I think that's a huge one. I'll say the second

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Speaker 3: one is, again, in my case, this was done without

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Speaker 3: my knowing or awareness. I'm also aware that there are

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Speaker 3: lots of people who do share intimate photos and nudes,

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Speaker 3: and they in fact are in intimate relationships for years,

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Speaker 3: and what people do in their bedroom is their business,

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Speaker 3: you know. But when they share that with someone and

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Speaker 3: then it is put out into the public and then

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Speaker 3: called porn, that can be highly salacious and misleading.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's where the degree.

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Speaker 3: Of shame and embarrassment comes from, particularly for women who

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Speaker 3: trusted the person that they gave those intimate photos and

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Speaker 3: videos to.

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Speaker 1: Right, And I feel like you made a good point.

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Speaker 1: I feel like the media plays a huge role in

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Speaker 1: the portrayal of revenge porn because just they worn't porn

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Speaker 1: along means something completely different than what's actually happening, especially

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Speaker 1: in your situation. So how does the media portrayal of

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Speaker 1: revenge porn shape public perception and understanding of the issue.

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Speaker 3: I think the media has it, for the most part misconstrued.

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Speaker 3: And again I just mentioned the fact that it's such

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Speaker 3: a salacious term, you know.

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Speaker 2: I like to call it digital domestic violence. And the

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Speaker 2: reason that.

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Speaker 3: I say that is that at least in many of

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Speaker 3: the cases that I'm aware of, and particularly those that

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Speaker 3: people have personally reached out to me, is that the

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Speaker 3: stems from some domestic issue at home, I e. I

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Speaker 3: want to get a divorce, I'm having their arguments and

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Speaker 3: one's mad they want to break up, and when that

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Speaker 3: person can't physically harm them or verbally harm them, they

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Speaker 3: find a way to lash out to them online. Most

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Speaker 3: people call that cyber bullying right. Well, in this case,

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Speaker 3: when there is the use of images or photos that

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Speaker 3: are naked or intimate in some way and have been

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Speaker 3: posted non consensually, is when we run into this issue.

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Speaker 2: Of it being illegal in many instances.

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Speaker 3: And because you know the meatia really I mean, now,

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Speaker 3: if you look at where I was six seven years

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Speaker 3: ago when this first happened and I launched this campaign,

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Speaker 3: and where we've come to now, it's a term that

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Speaker 3: people have come to understand, but it still isn't I

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Speaker 3: think portrayed the way that it.

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Speaker 2: Should be in the media.

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Speaker 3: And it stems again from the use of the term

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Speaker 3: revenge porn using terms like digital domestic violence, cyber sexual assault,

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Speaker 3: non consensual pornography. There's a long list of names. They

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Speaker 3: still point to the same so called crime. It's just

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Speaker 3: a bit misleading and misunderstanding when the media can't get

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Speaker 3: the proper term in place.

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Speaker 1: Right So, because of that, do you believe that there

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Speaker 1: is a stigma or victim blame and associated with revenge porn.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, victim shaming and victim blaming is perhaps the most

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Speaker 3: damaging to the victims themselves. Right. You know, it kind

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Speaker 3: of goes back if you remember when when women who

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Speaker 3: dressed in short skirts stores pocket of clothing, you know,

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Speaker 3: God forbid, they were raped or assaulted, and then the

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Speaker 3: shaming went on like, well, you shouldn't have worn that,

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Speaker 3: or you shouldn't have dressed that way, like that's a

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Speaker 3: reason for someone to rape them.

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Speaker 2: This is no different that people will.

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Speaker 3: Quickly victim shame and victim blame again, particularly for people

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Speaker 3: who have shared photos and nunes consensually. It still doesn't.

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Speaker 1: Give the person the right to do it.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely not right, And that's where the gray line is.

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Speaker 3: That's where the misinterpretation in laws, particularly state statues across

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Speaker 3: this country have not been able to clearly qualify and

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Speaker 3: quantify what is a crime in this case. And you

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Speaker 3: know we're still battling this today.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I also think that it's not fair that the

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Speaker 1: victim is being blamed for sharing intimate pictures with someone

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Speaker 1: that he or she trusted and now being used against them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's saying you know what I didn't mean to

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Speaker 2: go to bed with you or sleep with you.

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Speaker 3: Right, have the intimate conversations that we've had in our

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Speaker 3: bedroom for twenty years and we shared these intimate ways,

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Speaker 3: and now you're dragging me through the internet and showing

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Speaker 3: them and I'm looking like the culprit. The victim ultimately

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Speaker 3: ends up getting blamed and shamed for that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, at the start of twenty fifteen, you made

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Speaker 1: the decision to relocate to Jamaica to be with your

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Speaker 1: ex partner. Can you please share with us your experience

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Speaker 1: during the initia period?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 3: Man, it was love and bliss. I mean this was

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Speaker 3: an ex boyfriend who I had dated when I was nineteen.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So I knew him and I got a divorce

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Speaker 3: and decided that I wanted to start this relationship.

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Speaker 2: So I hopped up my bags.

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Speaker 3: And ran away to a place called a Runaway Bay, Jamaica,

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Speaker 3: and we began living with one another.

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Speaker 1: You know what, this is given?

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Speaker 2: Right? What's that? I say? You know what?

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Speaker 1: This is given?

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Speaker 2: Right? What's that?

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Speaker 1: Stella got her groove back.

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Speaker 3: Oh I say this all the time, got her groove back.

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Speaker 2: I know you were going to say that, I just

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Speaker 2: wanted to be got her.

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Speaker 3: Groove back after twenty years of marriage. You know, I

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Speaker 3: fall in love with a former ex boyfriend. I run

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Speaker 3: away to Jamaica. We have a wonderful time, and I

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Speaker 3: will say that, you know, there were some early clues

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Speaker 3: and part of those were you know, he would just

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Speaker 3: go into these rages and say certain things about other people,

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Speaker 3: never to me necessarily, and he was never.

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Speaker 2: Physically but it was enough red flags.

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Speaker 3: For me to see this is not good for me.

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Speaker 3: I want to get out, and I did. You know,

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Speaker 3: We ended the relationship and I thought it was over.

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Speaker 3: And you know, a few months later, I get a

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Speaker 3: phone call with him telling me, Hey, you know, if

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Speaker 3: you don't come back to this relationship, I am going

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Speaker 3: to shoot you in your head and stab you in

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Speaker 3: your heart. And I do that, I'll find somebody who will.

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Speaker 3: And you know, that was so scary and alarming, I mean,

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Speaker 3: particularly because it came from somebody who I loved and.

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Speaker 2: Trusted and that was me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, and I begged him to stop.

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Speaker 3: You know, I did all I could to, you know, say,

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Speaker 3: to try and take that out of my head. I

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Speaker 3: wasn't living with him, you know, I'd moved back to

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Speaker 3: the States, and so to some degree, I was obviously

240
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Speaker 3: very afraid, because whoever wants to get a threat like that,

241
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Speaker 3: But at the same time, I, you know, I tried

242
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Speaker 3: to ignore it.

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Speaker 2: Well.

244
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Speaker 3: Two weeks after that is when I get a text

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Speaker 3: message with a video that has all of these naked

246
00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,920
Speaker 3: photos and images of me that he'd strunk together. And

247
00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,840
Speaker 3: the message behind that was, now, if you don't call me,

248
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Speaker 3: this is going out on the internet. And it just

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Speaker 3: exploded from there. A website came up, There were constant

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Speaker 3: Texas messages.

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Speaker 1: He called my ex husbands and husband.

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Speaker 3: He did yeah, he did it, you know, and he

253
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Speaker 3: called me, I mean, you know, and you know, and

254
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Speaker 3: and for me at that moment when this was several

255
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Speaker 3: months after the fact, but that he was this ex

256
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Speaker 3: boyfriend of mine was calling people and telling them to

257
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Speaker 3: go to the website to see me this way to

258
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Speaker 3: talk about humiliation, right, audacity, like just just ridiculousness, and

259
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Speaker 3: you know, and the police were telling me there's nothing

260
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Speaker 3: they could do about it. The courts were telling me

261
00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:38,360
Speaker 3: there was nothing they could do about it. But if

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Speaker 3: you googled my name, you could see the photos in

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Speaker 3: the videos. And I mean people were googling for a

264
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Speaker 3: variety of different reasons to ask me to come and

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Speaker 3: speak to you know, come to my different programs and

266
00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:51,959
Speaker 3: retreats to I was still very active in television, so

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Speaker 3: I was a very public person and this was happening,

268
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Speaker 3: and you just Google my name and it would come up.

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Speaker 2: And you know, even.

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Speaker 3: Getting Google and GoDaddy to scrub the internet and take

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Speaker 3: the photos down was.

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Speaker 1: Before we get to that part. Because I did see

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Speaker 1: the pictures on Ted Talk when you was doing your talk,

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Speaker 1: and you can clearly see that you would sleep.

275
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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, I would sleep for a lot of

276
00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:16,760
Speaker 3: the photos, so many of them. I didn't know that

277
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,160
Speaker 3: there were photos taken with me getting out of the

278
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,280
Speaker 3: shower that I knew that he took. There were several

279
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:23,440
Speaker 3: photos that he took while I was asleep. There were

280
00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,360
Speaker 3: photos that he took between my legs, and these photos

281
00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:28,960
Speaker 3: were out on the internet, so you could see all

282
00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:33,920
Speaker 3: of my intimate body parts, right, and he knew it.

283
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Speaker 3: He told me that he would shame and silence me,

284
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Speaker 3: and it was all in an attempt to get me

285
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Speaker 3: to return to the relationship, like somebody would return to

286
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Speaker 3: a relationship, right, And.

287
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Speaker 1: You know, I had a situation like this, not to

288
00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,440
Speaker 1: this magnitude, but it was on my birthday one night,

289
00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:52,880
Speaker 1: and I had a couple of drinks, so I was

290
00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,000
Speaker 1: pretty lit, and I remember going back to the guy

291
00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:59,000
Speaker 1: house who I was dating, and pretty much I kind

292
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,240
Speaker 1: of like passed out whatever. So he had videos of me,

293
00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:03,120
Speaker 1: but he was trying to make fun of it, and

294
00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,400
Speaker 1: I called my best friend and I was just like, yo,

295
00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:07,400
Speaker 1: like I didn't like the fact that he took videos

296
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Speaker 1: of me without me being present, and she was like,

297
00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,320
Speaker 1: but you should try some you're having sex with me

298
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Speaker 1: home your dating hem, And I'm like, yeah, but I

299
00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,160
Speaker 1: don't know him like that, like you never know nobody

300
00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:19,360
Speaker 1: at this point in this day and age. And I

301
00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:21,600
Speaker 1: felt so uncomfortable to the point that I literally like

302
00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:23,720
Speaker 1: took his phone and I deleted it myself because I'm like,

303
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:25,480
Speaker 1: one day you can put this out.

304
00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:27,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know, good for you for doing that,

305
00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:32,680
Speaker 3: because whether you know that the photos are being taken

306
00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:36,600
Speaker 3: or you agree to them, right, the issue is the

307
00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,080
Speaker 3: intent to do harm. When the RI asked the images

308
00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:43,800
Speaker 3: of the photos the content, and they maliciously put the

309
00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:45,040
Speaker 3: information out.

310
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Speaker 2: As far as all of the victims, myself included are concerned.

311
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,240
Speaker 2: It's a crime. It's a crime. It's a crime, a crime.

312
00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:14,720
Speaker 1: So how did your family and friends react to this

313
00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:16,120
Speaker 1: when you told him what he did?

314
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,000
Speaker 3: A lot of my family and friends didn't know. I

315
00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,440
Speaker 3: hid in shame and silence for several months, and that

316
00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:26,440
Speaker 3: was part of the most damaging experience I think I've

317
00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:27,000
Speaker 3: ever had.

318
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Speaker 2: In my life.

319
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,120
Speaker 3: It's also, however, what I understand many people to go

320
00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:34,320
Speaker 3: through because of the level of embarrassment, right like, how

321
00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:37,160
Speaker 3: can you share this with anyone else? The level of

322
00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:41,800
Speaker 3: judgment that people may pass against you, and particularly for

323
00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:46,200
Speaker 3: people where this might impact their work, their family, their churches,

324
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:50,920
Speaker 3: their you know, religious organizations. This runs very, very deep,

325
00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:54,680
Speaker 3: and so you know, I found myself locked in shame

326
00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:58,480
Speaker 3: and silence. But I will tell you that the crack happened,

327
00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:03,920
Speaker 3: and what changed everything for me was the conversation that

328
00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,720
Speaker 3: I ultimately had to have with my son because I

329
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,120
Speaker 3: was so fearful that he would learn about it, and

330
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Speaker 3: I didn't want him to be impacted in any particular way.

331
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,520
Speaker 3: And you know, I'll never forget that day when I

332
00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:19,680
Speaker 3: had to tell him and I was just crying, and

333
00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,919
Speaker 3: it was just like, I like to express this to

334
00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,040
Speaker 3: your son in the hopes that he wouldn't want to

335
00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,120
Speaker 3: retaliate or get mad or.

336
00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:30,840
Speaker 2: Feel a certain way.

337
00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:33,800
Speaker 3: And simply he said just a few words to me,

338
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,600
Speaker 3: and they changed my life. I mean, he said, Mom, listen,

339
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:40,399
Speaker 3: I am so sorry this is happening to you, but

340
00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,280
Speaker 3: I know you're going to get through this. And besides, Mom,

341
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:51,000
Speaker 3: he messed with the wrong woman. Okay, And girl, you know,

342
00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:54,399
Speaker 3: I like I grew wings in that second, like to

343
00:17:54,440 --> 00:18:00,040
Speaker 3: hear my child remind me of myself and remind me

344
00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:04,320
Speaker 3: of what I am capable of doing and to do,

345
00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:06,800
Speaker 3: to literally in that second.

346
00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:09,840
Speaker 2: Give me the sense of.

347
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:13,600
Speaker 3: Me owning my power and my voice. And this story

348
00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:16,280
Speaker 3: happened instantaneously.

349
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:18,520
Speaker 2: When I tell you, it felt like I grew wings.

350
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:19,360
Speaker 2: I mean that like.

351
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:22,080
Speaker 1: It was like I felt yeah, and I was like.

352
00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,320
Speaker 2: Oh wait a minute. And I'm from Detroit, right, come

353
00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:29,120
Speaker 2: on now, listen.

354
00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:31,920
Speaker 1: I'm trying to not I'm trying to maintain my language

355
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,680
Speaker 1: because I want to be respectful. But I know it

356
00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:37,680
Speaker 1: was like this negro got me f up.

357
00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:42,000
Speaker 3: Listen, you know, because he did say the words he

358
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:43,200
Speaker 3: messed with the wrong woman.

359
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:44,760
Speaker 2: But you know, I don't know if this is a

360
00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,960
Speaker 2: clean podcast. No it's not, it's not. Come on, okay,

361
00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,879
Speaker 2: As far as I was concerned, he with the wrong woman.

362
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:55,240
Speaker 1: Right, right, right, Yeah, he got some fucking nerves, right.

363
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,920
Speaker 3: And you know, for me, what happened was beyond like

364
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,960
Speaker 3: that was just the crack for freedom that I needed

365
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,760
Speaker 3: to give myself the.

366
00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,720
Speaker 2: Permission to fight back. And I have been right.

367
00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,200
Speaker 3: I'd been in touch with the authorities. I've been in court.

368
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,359
Speaker 3: I was trying to get the website down, but the

369
00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:16,480
Speaker 3: fact that I was dying in silence and shame was

370
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:21,119
Speaker 3: really and shame is the heaviest, densest emotion a human

371
00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,159
Speaker 3: can feel. Right, if joy and happiness and bliss are

372
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:29,040
Speaker 3: at the top, shame is at the bottom. I that minute,

373
00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,639
Speaker 3: like I cracked out of that and was like, and

374
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,680
Speaker 3: I heard the words do a documentary.

375
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,040
Speaker 2: Now, I have to say, you.

376
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:41,199
Speaker 3: Know, I have thirty years television news experience. I anchored

377
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,200
Speaker 3: the news for many years in Pittsburgh. I have worked

378
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,439
Speaker 3: on several different television productions. I've produced a lot of

379
00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:49,800
Speaker 3: film and videos and content and media.

380
00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:54,360
Speaker 2: But I had never filed in the documentary. I didn't

381
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,240
Speaker 2: even know how to film the documentary.

382
00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:58,679
Speaker 3: And I'm like, well, besides me wo would be in

383
00:19:58,720 --> 00:19:59,480
Speaker 3: the documentary.

384
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,679
Speaker 2: That just goes to show you that when you when you.

385
00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,480
Speaker 3: Really send to yourself and you trust that God in

386
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:10,360
Speaker 3: the universe has your back, and you follow your intuition

387
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:14,320
Speaker 3: and the wisdom and the light that is being provided

388
00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,000
Speaker 3: to you, and you take the steps and courage and

389
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:21,960
Speaker 3: commitment andation, things change. And so that was really the

390
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:25,320
Speaker 3: spark where, you know, I immediately went to my former

391
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,439
Speaker 3: television station in Pittsburgh and I said, listen, this is

392
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:32,560
Speaker 3: happening and I need to break my own news story

393
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,160
Speaker 3: and they allowed me the opportunity to share it and

394
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:42,760
Speaker 3: it went viral. I was all over the place, you know, NBC, ABC,

395
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,160
Speaker 3: all over the networks, Doctor Oz, the Today Show, news

396
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,840
Speaker 3: paper lines, and the flood of people that came back

397
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,280
Speaker 3: to me, that is when I knew there was something here.

398
00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,360
Speaker 2: And as a result of hearing.

399
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,560
Speaker 3: From so many different women, I said, yeah, so I

400
00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,560
Speaker 3: We're going to tell a documentary because these stories are

401
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:00,399
Speaker 3: not being told.

402
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:02,399
Speaker 2: And I did that.

403
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,600
Speaker 3: I ended up doing a TED talk that has now

404
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:09,359
Speaker 3: been translated to nineteen different languages. You know, because this

405
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:13,320
Speaker 3: is such an issue that has unfortunately been swept under

406
00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,359
Speaker 3: the rug, and you know, My greatest desire is that

407
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 3: we ultimately really do see laws that are in place.

408
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:21,879
Speaker 3: We don't even have a federal law. And one of

409
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:25,600
Speaker 3: the things that I staged a march at a rally

410
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:30,240
Speaker 3: in Pittsburgh signatures to form a federal bill that would

411
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,440
Speaker 3: support state statues.

412
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:34,720
Speaker 2: And so my hope is that happens.

413
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:39,199
Speaker 3: But maybe my proudest accomplishment in all of this is

414
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:41,479
Speaker 3: when I went public.

415
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,320
Speaker 2: My story ended up on the front.

416
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 3: Page of the newspaper in Jamaica, and there happened to

417
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:51,159
Speaker 3: be a Homeland security agent. He was there having a

418
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 3: cup of coffee. He read my story, and at that

419
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,280
Speaker 3: time I couldn't get the Jamaican government or police officials

420
00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:58,919
Speaker 3: to assist me. They have been telling me, if you

421
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,159
Speaker 3: don't mail us your lap up and cell phone, we

422
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:05,200
Speaker 3: can't get involved. Because of course this happened in Jamaica. Right,

423
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,120
Speaker 3: well got involved.

424
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 2: He googled me, called me.

425
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,200
Speaker 3: I get a phone call out of nowhere and he says,

426
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,400
Speaker 3: you know, I'm a Homeland security officer here in Jamaica

427
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 3: working with the US embassy and law enforcement.

428
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 2: Do you need my help.

429
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,480
Speaker 4: It was like an angel, right, it was an angel

430
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,719
Speaker 4: out of nowhere and I was like, yes, and so

431
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:30,440
Speaker 4: two years investigation.

432
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,480
Speaker 2: To make this story really short, he was arrested.

433
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 1: Oh wait, we were jumping the head. Hold on, we jumping

434
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,679
Speaker 1: the head But I do want to say, because you

435
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,720
Speaker 1: are a well known media personality, I do feel like

436
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 1: because you shared your story, it definitely encouraged other women

437
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,359
Speaker 1: to share their stories. So that has to be an

438
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:49,159
Speaker 1: amazing feeling.

439
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:51,439
Speaker 2: Oh it does, and you know it.

440
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,199
Speaker 3: I am so grateful, first off, that people found the

441
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 3: courage to even submit this right now at fifty Shades

442
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:02,679
Speaker 3: of Silence dot com, women can victims period, not just women.

443
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,040
Speaker 3: People can share their stories, and there's something to be

444
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 3: said about just letting somebody else know this is happening

445
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 3: to you. All of those stories are kept confidential. I

446
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 3: don't share them, I don't put them out. I respond

447
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 3: to each and every one of them, and I can

448
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 3: tell you that in ninety nine point nine percent of

449
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,159
Speaker 3: the cases, the people that I respond to are like,

450
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 3: I feel like I weight is lifted off my shoulder.

451
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 2: I just needed somebody to hear me.

452
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 3: I just needed somebody to understand what I'm going through.

453
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:33,880
Speaker 3: You know, and even at the website, we provide some

454
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 3: resources and tools and steps to take if it's happening

455
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,680
Speaker 3: to you, how to get it removed, how to get the.

456
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 2: Support that you need, you know, and a few other things.

457
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 2: And so I.

458
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 3: Felt very I thought I would just stop at that

459
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:50,959
Speaker 3: right like and I thought I would just stop at

460
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 3: the documentary.

461
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,200
Speaker 2: But you know, I won't move the story ahead until

462
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 2: you're ready.

463
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 3: But when I get to make and all that, Oh

464
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:58,639
Speaker 3: appreciate you did all of your.

465
00:23:58,520 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 2: Homework, and you've got great questions.

466
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, so did you experience any challenges or difficulties

467
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:11,360
Speaker 1: and removing the intimate images of yourself from online websites

468
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:12,160
Speaker 1: or platforms.

469
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 2: I did, and that's a great question. So then it

470
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 2: was really hard.

471
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 3: I begged go Daddy and Google to took me months,

472
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 3: went to court, oh wow, for eleven months trying to

473
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 3: get a judge to produce the language for me to

474
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:36,879
Speaker 3: give to GoDaddy and Google to shut the website down. Fortunately,

475
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 3: I was able to get a company out of Canada

476
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 3: to issue a DMCA takedown notice to go Daddy, and

477
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 3: within about three months they had the website shut down

478
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 3: and the images scrubbed from the internet.

479
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 2: That am, that's a long time, So imagine your pussy

480
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 2: being on the internet. Yeah, you going crazy three seconds,

481
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 2: let alone three months, right and in case.

482
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,360
Speaker 3: Eleven months until the judge actually gave me the language,

483
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 3: which by then it was past the point, but at

484
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,440
Speaker 3: least I wanted the legal language from the courts to

485
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,360
Speaker 3: protect me. Now, getting a DMCA takedown notice is not

486
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,880
Speaker 3: as difficult. Sometimes it can be quite expensive, and many

487
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 3: instances people can can.

488
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 2: Do them themselves. It requires victims.

489
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 3: Or people who have had their images out there to

490
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 3: make sure that they've saved everything, Like you have to

491
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 3: present all of the proof, and that proof is important

492
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 3: if you're going to have a successful DMCA takedown notice issued.

493
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: Right, right, But my guy like shout outs to your

494
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 1: mental health, like all that time, like something kind of

495
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: went totally left from this, Like how do you expect

496
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,400
Speaker 1: somebody to stay sane and everything that's intimate is out

497
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 1: there for everyone to see.

498
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 3: It is very hard, and especially when you are a

499
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 3: public not it doesn't matter the person, person, period, period exactly.

500
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,400
Speaker 3: So it doesn't matter about that. And that's the thing

501
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 3: is that often people will say, well, you were public figures,

502
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 3: and I'm like, it wouldn't matter if I was boo

503
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 3: boo like you do not want your naked images out there, period, right,

504
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 3: So yes, and that again, that's even part of the

505
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 3: reason why I titled it fifty Shades of Silence, because

506
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 3: the shades of silence that exists for people go from

507
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 3: people not being able to talk about it to people

508
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 3: being going crazy. I mean, the amount of suicides in

509
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:48,119
Speaker 3: these situations are growing and alarming, particularly with young people.

510
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 3: I get emails weekly from families who say, you know,

511
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,479
Speaker 3: my daughter or my son took their life because they

512
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 3: couldn't deal with the embarrassment and the shame and the ridicule.

513
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 2: And so this is very, very alarming. And you know

514
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:04,880
Speaker 2: when your world, you know.

515
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,679
Speaker 3: People who spend a lot of time online, feel like

516
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 3: their whole identity is online, and now this crushes your identity.

517
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 1: Right, So, I know you took some legal action against

518
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 1: the individual involved, So tell us about the steps you took,

519
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 1: because I know that this also happened in Jamaica.

520
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 3: Right, so here in the United States. I spent time

521
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 3: in the court system in Florida at the time to

522
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 3: get the language that I needed for the DMCA takedown

523
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 3: notice as well as a PFA a protection from abuse

524
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 3: those even though I had to hire someone in Jamaica

525
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 3: to actually hand deliver them to him. It didn't stop.

526
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 3: It didn't matter because he was relentless and kept going.

527
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 3: That's what I knew because he still had the content

528
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 3: and he could he was changing the website every single

529
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 3: day that I had to take more immediate action. So

530
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 3: I contacted the authorities in Jamaica, and they were unwilling

531
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 3: to assist me. In fact, they said, if you don't

532
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 3: mail us your laptop and cell phone for us to investigate,

533
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 3: we're not getting involved. Well, I wasn't going to mail

534
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 3: my laptop and so.

535
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 2: And they told me that they wouldn't return it while

536
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 2: I was working.

537
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:13,440
Speaker 1: With What am I supposed to do?

538
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 2: Right? And I had all the image of this, So

539
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 2: I emailed them everything. I said, this is everything.

540
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 3: And at the time, the website was still up so

541
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 3: you could go.

542
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 1: And why they were out Literally I was about to say,

543
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 1: why they couldn't go on the website themselves, Why I

544
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:29,159
Speaker 1: have to mail my shit to y'all? What am I

545
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 1: supposed to do in the meantime?

546
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 2: Yeah?

547
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that was exactly it. And I was like,

548
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 3: the website's up, I can't even get it down, so

549
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 3: you can go here here every day. I would screenshot

550
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 3: because he changed it every day, so I would screenshot

551
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 3: it and I would send it. So there was so

552
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 3: much proof. There was so much proof that it was

553
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 3: just undeniable. Well, when I told him that I wouldn't

554
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 3: they drop the case and the as I said, the

555
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 3: Homeland Security officer, who happened to read the story on

556
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 3: the front page of the newspaper, read that this was

557
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 3: happening to an American citizen he lived in Jamaica, and

558
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 3: that the authorities wouldn't get involved.

559
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 2: He called and said, how can I help? And I

560
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 2: said no. He said can I help? I was like, yes, however,

561
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 2: you can help.

562
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 3: So long story short, he was able to petition GoDaddy

563
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 3: and Google to view what I had saved, as well

564
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 3: as because by then the dmcaa takedown notice had been

565
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 3: issued and the website was not active anymore, although I'd

566
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 3: kept the information. He also arranged for me to take

567
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 3: my devices to Homeland Security in Florida so I could

568
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 3: sickly take it. They scrubbed my contents and then I

569
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 3: was able to take my contents home. And I'll tell you, frankly,

570
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 3: that was also humiliating, because here I am sitting in

571
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,719
Speaker 3: this huge conference room with all of the women who

572
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 3: are looking at all of these photos of me naked,

573
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 3: just so that I can prove the point that.

574
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 2: This is me.

575
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 3: But it took us, Yeah, it took about two years,

576
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 3: a little less than two years, but they were able

577
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 3: to and at the times.

578
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 2: So this was also.

579
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 3: What was interesting is that Jamaica was in the process

580
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 3: lawmakers that were in the process of developing a law

581
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 3: which is called the Malicious Communications Act, and that law

582
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 3: spells out specifically that when someone uses images content with

583
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 3: the intent to do harm, that this is a crime.

584
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 2: Basically, that's the reduced language.

585
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 3: We don't have language here in the United States in

586
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 3: any state.

587
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: Clearly, when that was on my research, I'm like, this

588
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense, Like where is the language for people

589
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: to be able to understand what are the next else

590
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: when it comes to this situation like this.

591
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 2: Some states have no language.

592
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 3: Other states, you know, might call it a civil infraction,

593
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 3: maybe a slap on the wrist. You know, California probably

594
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 3: has That's probably the state that has the most teeth

595
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 3: in their state law around it. And quite frankly, I

596
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 3: mean this, I've been doing this what seven years now,

597
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 3: the last year or so, I haven't really been focused

598
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 3: on what state laws have changed.

599
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 2: They've been slow to change.

600
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 3: I think every person who's dealing with this would like

601
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 3: for this to be immediate. And so you know, here

602
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 3: in the United States we got a long way to go.

603
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 3: But back in Jamaica, they were in the process of

604
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 3: passing this law, and it just so happened that my

605
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 3: case entered the court system at about the same time,

606
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 3: and the prosecutors there were able to use that law.

607
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 3: They issued he had six charges against him, okay, and.

608
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 2: You know, I was actually in.

609
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 3: Greece at the time that they arrested him, found him guilty,

610
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 3: and I had to go to court, and I flew

611
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 3: from there to go back to Jamaica. He ended up

612
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 3: leading guilty to say, six of those charges, and he

613
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 3: was he faced a one million dollar JA fine in

614
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 3: Jamaican dollars. You know, I don't recall that right now,

615
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 3: but you know it's a few thousand dollars, and I

616
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 3: believe it was six months in prison. And so you know,

617
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 3: that's that is pretty tough because, like I said, here

618
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 3: in the US, you know, you might get a warning, yeah,

619
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 3: and there are very few people who actually do jail

620
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 3: time and or have to pay a fine here in

621
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 3: the US. And so for that to happen and for

622
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 3: me to win that case in Jamaica was huge, and

623
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 3: not just for me, but frankly for citizens in Jamaica

624
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 3: because what that did was.

625
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 2: Constitute that law and make it real. Right.

626
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 3: So something on the books right now that shows that

627
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 3: that someone was able to use that in defense and

628
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 3: or for prosecution, I should say, And as a result

629
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 3: of that, I hope that that supports other victims going forward,

630
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 3: going forward, going forward.

631
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: When it comes to the time and resources, how much

632
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: did you invest in fighting this case? Because I know

633
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: it costs a lot of money, you.

634
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 3: Know what, Nobody is ever asked me that question, and

635
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 3: I appreciate you asking.

636
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 2: It was very expensive. It was very extensive.

637
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 3: I mean, the legal fees to fight it in the

638
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 3: US four year, all of the time spent, not to

639
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 3: mention the money that I put into developing the website,

640
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 3: filming the documentary, doing all of the other pieces, was

641
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 3: quite expensive, you know. I mean, and I'm talking to

642
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 3: the tune of probably close to one hundred thousand dollars.

643
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 3: When it's all said and done, you were to add

644
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 3: it all up, and you know, if I had to

645
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 3: do it again, I would.

646
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 2: Over and over and over and over again.

647
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 3: Part of what I will say is that, you know,

648
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 3: I also had the support of a lot of people.

649
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 3: You know, we did an Indie go go fundraiser for

650
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 3: parts of the documentary, so that helped to cover some

651
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 3: of those expenses. And the other thing is that you know,

652
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 3: I started speaking about it and really advocating for victims,

653
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 3: and so when there was an opportunity to receive the

654
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 3: speaker's fee, that obviously helped to shave off some of

655
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,439
Speaker 3: the expense and the cost associated.

656
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 2: And then there was my time. You know, there was

657
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,720
Speaker 2: a great I spent three.

658
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 3: Years of my life not only dealing with this personally,

659
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 3: but advocating for victims, holding a.

660
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,360
Speaker 1: Market, living it over and over again.

661
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 3: We living it over and over again, and so you know,

662
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 3: I've done a lot of healing.

663
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 2: I'm actually working on a documentary and the.

664
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 3: Podcast now called The Way of the Healer because for me,

665
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,240
Speaker 3: what I knew that, you know, I originally got into

666
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 3: fight mode and I spent a lot of time doing that,

667
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 3: and that was healing on the surface, but not internally.

668
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 2: You know, it gave me to.

669
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 3: Fight for and a lot of people who launch social

670
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 3: justice projects will say that, you know, they were just

671
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 3: so committed to helping other people, which I am. But

672
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 3: I also realized that there was there was some wounds

673
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 3: and some forgiveness and and some healing that I needed

674
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 3: to do, which is really what I've spent the last year,

675
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 3: year and a half two years doing is really focused

676
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 3: on my internal healing, but then also looking at it

677
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 3: now has turned into another documentary and another podcast.

678
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: But what does that look like? What does your healing

679
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:49,240
Speaker 1: look like? Now?

680
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 2: Oh? It is?

681
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 3: So I'll say personally that I'm out of space space

682
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 3: now where I can forgive him, I honestly can, and

683
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 3: I can also forgive other perpetrators in this I also

684
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 3: have a better understanding that hurt people.

685
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 1: Hurhurt people facts yep.

686
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 2: And healed people heal people.

687
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 3: And so for me to move into this space of

688
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 3: personal healing but also advocating the healing of other people

689
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 3: and the healing of humanity, my.

690
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 2: Focus needed to change.

691
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:28,799
Speaker 3: And I went on this huge two year spiritual awakening

692
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:34,240
Speaker 3: and journey into inner depths of healing and higher states

693
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 3: of consciousness, sitting with lots of different plant medicine and psychedelics,

694
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 3: gurus and shamans. You know, it has been so life

695
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 3: changing and so beautiful to witness my own transformation, but

696
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 3: the transformation of other people who also have found a

697
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 3: great degree of healing from trauma, pain, PTSD, addictions. We

698
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,359
Speaker 3: know that psychedelics and plant medicine helps in that way.

699
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 2: I didn't know that.

700
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 4: I didn'tn't even know that that was going to be

701
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 4: the thing that actually would help me. But it didn't,

702
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 4: and it spawned my own awakening. It spawned my own

703
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 4: elevated sense of consciousness and allowed me to live at a.

704
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 2: Higher frequency, at a higher vibration.

705
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 3: That is yeah, totally like and I'm so grateful. I mean,

706
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 3: obviously I had to do the work and get through it.

707
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 3: But at the same time that my own healing is

708
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 3: as a result of me being consciously aware of my thoughts, feelings,

709
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 3: and actions, because I'm creating my current reality, and so

710
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 3: now I don't I rarely. You know, it's interesting that

711
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 3: we're having this conversation. I had these I would do

712
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 3: countless interviews talk about this subject over and over again,

713
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,359
Speaker 3: and I would get off a podcast or get off

714
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 3: of stage or often in my stomach would hurt because

715
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 3: I was still very much wrapped in it. I'm no

716
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 3: longer wrapped in it, and yet I'm still obviously a

717
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 3: huge proponent for giving voice and dignity to these victims.

718
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 3: But personally I'm on a healing journey that I'm no

719
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 3: longer affected by it. That is what Also, I think

720
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 3: part of what happened for me in this shift is

721
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 3: realizing that we've all had our own hang ups and

722
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 3: bang ups, right, mess and traumas and things that have

723
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 3: happened that we're constantly replaying because we're constantly telling.

724
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,879
Speaker 1: The story, constantly talking about it, constantly reliving it.

725
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 3: Right, we're reliving it, We're telling the story to other people,

726
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 3: we're telling it to ourselves. It's running the old tape

727
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,919
Speaker 3: in our brain, and it's keeping us stuck installed in

728
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,280
Speaker 3: the same low dense energy and vibration.

729
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:50,319
Speaker 2: Which is producing more of that.

730
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 3: And so the change has truly got to happen internally

731
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,800
Speaker 3: because to wait around for somebody else to make the change,

732
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 3: or for the laws to change with.

733
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 2: The same you're going to be waiting forever.

734
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:01,919
Speaker 3: Right.

735
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 2: You want to be you want to see the change.

736
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: You have to be the change, right, how did this

737
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: situation affect you when it comes to your intimate relationships

738
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,760
Speaker 1: with men? Because I know you had to be signed

739
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 1: ony on these men.

740
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 3: Man, you are so good.

741
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 2: Let me tell you say good.

742
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 3: I am so glad you are asking these questions as

743
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 3: a as a journalist.

744
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 2: And storyteller and interviewer. You let me tell you you

745
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 2: are really good.

746
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: Okay, And this is coming from a legend, y'all, this

747
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:30,240
Speaker 1: is coming from a legend.

748
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 3: Seriously, you did your homework. You're asking great questions and

749
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 3: I love it.

750
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 1: But I think it's important too because I feel like

751
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 1: when people see you, like people think that all she

752
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 1: has it together, she has an amazing life, she had

753
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,839
Speaker 1: a successful career. She was like doing amazing things, but

754
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:44,919
Speaker 1: like real things actually happen to you and it helped

755
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 1: you reshape who you are now as a person, and

756
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 1: you're thriving. But I think sometimes people get so caught

757
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 1: up in trauma, like you said, so it's good to

758
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 1: have people like yourself on the show so people can see,

759
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 1: can hear your story and know that there is hope, solutely.

760
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 3: And that's why I continue to advocate and talk about

761
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 3: this because there is hope and change is possible, and

762
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 3: beyond change, actually even beyond tr transformation is truly.

763
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 2: Allowing the thriving and the fulfillment.

764
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 3: And the happiness and the joy and the bliss that

765
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 3: is possible, even outside of the circumstances that we have faced.

766
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 3: But to answer a question about intimate relationships is tough.

767
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 2: I mean, quite honestly.

768
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:32,839
Speaker 3: You know, I was very fortunate to have a very

769
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 3: good friend in my life at the time that this happened,

770
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 3: and he was We were very close as friends in

771
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 3: the very beginning and then became intimate and then ultimately

772
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 3: went back to being friends.

773
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 2: But he was by my side the entire time.

774
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 3: So for four years, almost five years, from all of

775
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 3: it happening, to the courts, to the documentary being released,

776
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 3: and even coming to film festivals with me when the

777
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 3: documentary made it to film festivals, he was there, and

778
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 3: so you know that, I'm so grateful for that. But

779
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,359
Speaker 3: I was also not available to invite anybody else into

780
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 3: my space, and he got in just before that because

781
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 3: I and I'm so blessed for that, because I think

782
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:19,719
Speaker 3: he had not been in my life, I would have

783
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:23,319
Speaker 3: closed the door entirely and then not have opened it up.

784
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 3: Now since then, I've been able again to heal, and

785
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,359
Speaker 3: so I'm past that, and dating, you know is yeah.

786
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 2: So, but I also hear from a lot of women

787
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 2: who say, you.

788
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:37,400
Speaker 3: Know, I don't trust, I trust, I don't trust the relationship.

789
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,320
Speaker 3: Of course, yes, I mean it is a form of abuse,

790
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 3: and so for anyone who's been physically, mentally emotionally abused.

791
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:48,919
Speaker 2: The scarring of the wounds can be such that.

792
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:53,439
Speaker 3: Even when they're not still apparent on the body, they're

793
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 3: still obviously in the soul, in the tissue of your DNA.

794
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 2: And so to be able to shift and change that

795
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 2: is where your freedom is, you know.

796
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 3: And I'm so happy that I've discovered that, because I

797
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 3: could have stayed in fight mode, right and then not

798
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 3: have been in a place where I could open myself

799
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 3: up to receive it. Yeah.

800
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what do you think are some steps that

801
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: someone can take to protect their privacy and to prevent

802
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 1: something like this from happening to them? Or is it

803
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:27,800
Speaker 1: even possible?

804
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 2: You know?

805
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:32,880
Speaker 3: I would like to say that don't take nude photos

806
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 3: and give them to other people?

807
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 2: Say that, but who am I to say that? And

808
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 2: who am I to judge? Right? Like? Who has anyone

809
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 2: to do that.

810
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 3: If people choose to do that in their own intimate settings.

811
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 2: With people, so be it. However, again that's not the issue.

812
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 3: The issue is the person who has the content and

813
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 3: then shares it without the someone else with the intent

814
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 3: to do harm.

815
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,800
Speaker 2: And so, to answer your question, and it's really.

816
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 3: Important in order to protect yourself to know who you're

817
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 3: in a relationship with. I thought I did, and I

818
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:07,840
Speaker 3: got out of it, and I didn't even.

819
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 2: Know he was taking the photos.

820
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 3: So even at that I was unaware of it. But

821
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 3: you also need to act quickly if it happens. So

822
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 3: here's three things I do want to tell people that

823
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 3: if this has happened to you, or you suspect that

824
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 3: someone has nude photos or images or any other content

825
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 3: or information that you don't want available online, you want

826
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 3: to try and find it as quickly as possible, take

827
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 3: as many photos and videos or screenshots as possible, and

828
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 3: get DMCA takedown or takedown notices for each of the

829
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 3: platforms that they might exist on. Now, that doesn't mean

830
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 3: that other people haven't screenshotted it or shared it or

831
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 3: something else, but at least go after it as quickly

832
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 3: as possible. You may be able to contact law enforcement

833
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 3: or the court systems and whatever particular state that you're in,

834
00:43:55,480 --> 00:44:00,040
Speaker 3: because sometimes even getting a PFA can be successful and

835
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 3: or beginning the process if there is a state that

836
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:09,839
Speaker 3: recognizes this. I would say third is sometimes this requires

837
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 3: legal action, so you might want to get in touch

838
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 3: with an attorney who is specialized in this work.

839
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 2: Do not. I'm telling you that.

840
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 3: That's important, very important, because you can waste a lot

841
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 3: of time and money with an attorney who does not

842
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 3: understand the intricacies of these laws that pertain in the

843
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 3: particular state that you're in. So budding a lawyer is

844
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 3: really really important. I'll add a fourth, and this is

845
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,839
Speaker 3: also really important. Get a friend, Get someone who you

846
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 3: trust who can help you, because this can be so

847
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:48,759
Speaker 3: emotional and you may not be thinking clearly and you're

848
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 3: feeling embarrassed and a shamed. But if there's someone who

849
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,799
Speaker 3: can help you and advocate for you and make the

850
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 3: phone calls and do the research and help you to

851
00:44:57,520 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 3: get the information would be really important.

852
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 2: Right at the.

853
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 3: Website fifty Shades of Silence dot com, we have a

854
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 3: download that says what to do if this has happened

855
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 3: to me, and it details all of the things that

856
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 3: I just said, and you can download it and have

857
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 3: it and begin that. We also have some resources on

858
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 3: there about how to get things taken down. There may

859
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:23,399
Speaker 3: also be some legal information there as well, but again

860
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 3: it changes so often, so we don't update that.

861
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 2: It really is imperative.

862
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 3: That you find someone in the legal system understands the

863
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 3: intricacies and the state that you're in that you're in

864
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 3: that you're in.

865
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:54,880
Speaker 1: One of my favorite things that I love that you

866
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 1: said during one of your interviews, you was talking to

867
00:45:57,800 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 1: this lady and you said that you had to really

868
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 1: lies or you told yourself, who do I need to

869
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,919
Speaker 1: become to get over this? And I was like, oh man,

870
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:06,919
Speaker 1: that was it right there?

871
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that that is such an important question to ask.

872
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:20,839
Speaker 3: And I found that to be so pivotal in the

873
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 3: shift that I needed to make in that moment, because

874
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 3: until then, the person that I was was not getting

875
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 3: through this. The person that I was was afraid and scared,

876
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 3: scared and terrified and unable to make a move. And

877
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 3: when I asked myself that question, who do I need

878
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 3: to become?

879
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:40,800
Speaker 4: Now?

880
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:46,880
Speaker 3: It opened up for me the opportunity to say strong, capable,

881
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 3: like every like all of the positive words that needed

882
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:53,280
Speaker 3: to come in.

883
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 2: I heard for the first time, right.

884
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 3: And then it became okay, so now what do you

885
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 3: need to do? And it was like it was me

886
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 3: crawling up off the floor because I spent many nights

887
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 3: on the floor and finding my way to stand in

888
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:07,840
Speaker 3: my power.

889
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:10,799
Speaker 2: And it was simple. Literally, I'm so glad you said

890
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,760
Speaker 2: that because that word that when I asked myself that question.

891
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 3: It happened right after my son said that to me

892
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 3: and I heard documentary and then I was like, okay, right,

893
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 3: that I need to become now?

894
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 2: And I transformed, and you know, we're always transforming and

895
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 2: growing and changing in life. That required a great deal.

896
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,399
Speaker 3: Of transformation in order to lift myself out and then

897
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 3: to do the things that I did after that.

898
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:38,799
Speaker 2: But that's a great question. You know, I would invite.

899
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 3: Your audience to ask themselves no matter what they're going through, right,

900
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 3: like going through something financially, emotionally, whatever, like anything professionally.

901
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 3: You know, we all got stuff we're going through, but

902
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 3: to ask yourself, okay, all right, now, who do I

903
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 3: need to become now?

904
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 1: Right?

905
00:47:58,040 --> 00:47:59,799
Speaker 3: Yeah? And you know, and being with that, you know,

906
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:03,839
Speaker 3: Ray journal, ask God whatever you need, but like, let

907
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 3: yourself hear the answers and move. And the other thing

908
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:10,799
Speaker 3: I'll say is that I think we question if we're

909
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,720
Speaker 3: moving in the right direction, especially if I feel lost.

910
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:17,359
Speaker 3: Some thing in no direction is just as bad as

911
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 3: not moving. It all right, it will take one step

912
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 3: and keep it out right and figure.

913
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:25,280
Speaker 2: It out right. But but start stepping.

914
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:29,320
Speaker 1: Yo from for you to be from Detroit, I'm surprised

915
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:30,759
Speaker 1: you him. Nobody run up on him.

916
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 2: So many people, now, girl have gone down there. I'm like,

917
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 2: she goes Detroit.

918
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 3: I'm like, nah, yeah, I mean it's so funny.

919
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 2: I will tell you know. And then even some of

920
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 2: my male friends and I told they were like, why

921
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 2: don't you tell me? We want right?

922
00:48:57,920 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 1: Because he got some nerve. He really thought that he

923
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 1: was going to break you.

924
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Well, and you know there is there's a

925
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:12,840
Speaker 3: sickness involved in this, and he was obsessed with you obsession.

926
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 3: So here's this is what I used to say. Rejection

927
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:22,760
Speaker 3: leads to obsession. The fact that I rejected him only

928
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:27,319
Speaker 3: fueled his obsession. He couldn't have me, he couldn't stop me.

929
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:29,320
Speaker 3: He didn't know what to do, and so he found

930
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 3: himself behaving in this way. But that's what narcissists do,

931
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:37,840
Speaker 3: and the personality trait of people who perpetrate these types

932
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:43,879
Speaker 3: of crimes generally are narcissists or sociopaths, and especially when

933
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 3: they do it consistently and then say they didn't do

934
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 3: it right.

935
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 2: And over again, like I didn't do it, I didn't well.

936
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 3: I didn't do it right, you know, and so but

937
00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 3: that is a true you know. In the in the documentary,

938
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:04,360
Speaker 3: I interview psychotherapists and professionals who talk about the mindset

939
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,720
Speaker 3: of the perpetrator and how one behaves in this way.

940
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 2: And it's no different than.

941
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,279
Speaker 3: A person who is physically abusive to someone else who

942
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:18,799
Speaker 3: denies their physical abuse or blames the victim for being

943
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 3: you know, they gaslight them or they say, well, you

944
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 3: made me do it, right.

945
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 2: A sickness. That's a that is a sickness, right.

946
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:28,359
Speaker 3: Wow.

947
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:31,359
Speaker 1: So, in the next five years, where do you see

948
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:33,959
Speaker 1: the legal landscape when it comes to revenge porn.

949
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:37,439
Speaker 3: I do hope that we'll have a strong federal bill

950
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 3: in place and state statues in all of our states

951
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 3: that speak clearly that when someone releases content information without

952
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 3: the consent of the person with the intent to do

953
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:53,839
Speaker 3: harm that that.

954
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 2: Is justifiable and.

955
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 3: For immediate grounds for for investigation and or for prosecution

956
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 3: with out there being all of this jumping through hoops

957
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 3: and victim shaming and blaming and the misunderstanding.

958
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 2: You know, then even.

959
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:18,279
Speaker 3: The judge who had my case was clueless about all

960
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 3: of this, and that goes now again, this was several

961
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:26,879
Speaker 3: years ago, but because they couldn't quite see that there

962
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 3: was something wrong with this right, right, it's really what

963
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:32,840
Speaker 3: what bothered me more than anything else, you know, And

964
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:35,879
Speaker 3: I wanted to tell the judge listen, we can.

965
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 2: Put your pussy right eleven seconds and let's see how

966
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 2: you feel about that, right so, you.

967
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:43,360
Speaker 3: Know, and.

968
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:48,320
Speaker 1: Like I don't understand why you don't understand why I'm upset.

969
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 3: Right exactly, or that something you know that you should

970
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:54,760
Speaker 3: at least protect me, you know, like I fight for PFA.

971
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 2: So it's but but.

972
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 3: Again it comes in educating people and comes in educating

973
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:03,359
Speaker 3: and you know, we've we've come to understand this term

974
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:07,240
Speaker 3: revenge porn, we've come to understand cyber bullying, cybersexual assault,

975
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 3: and it's really just lawmakers and police officers and all

976
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 3: those that are involved in protecting victims to be aware

977
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 3: of this and what to do next, and to do

978
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 3: it quickly because these images can spread so quickly, and

979
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 3: especially for young people, you know it.

980
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 2: You know, I'm really.

981
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:31,919
Speaker 3: Fortunate, I guess I can say that, you know, while

982
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:34,399
Speaker 3: the website existed and you could google and find it,

983
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 3: I also wasn't sixteen years old where I was at

984
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 3: a high school where people said they might be spreading it.

985
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 2: Kids who go through.

986
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:45,760
Speaker 3: This have it much worse because they're you know, the media,

987
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:49,160
Speaker 3: social media, they're in schools and you've got all of

988
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 3: these other platforms and kids can be cruel and harmful,

989
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:56,360
Speaker 3: and then you know there's backtalk and snickering in the school,

990
00:52:56,560 --> 00:53:01,320
Speaker 3: and it's it's so alarming, you know. And I've talked

991
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:04,840
Speaker 3: a lots of schools and with people in school systems,

992
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 3: and they do their best to inform children about cyberbullying

993
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 3: and things like this, and.

994
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:12,640
Speaker 1: A lot of kids commit suicide because of this.

995
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 2: They certainly do, They certainly do.

996
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 3: They have to change schools, you know, they drop out

997
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 3: of school. They have mental health issues and trauma and PTSD.

998
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:28,320
Speaker 3: It is more mind boggling, I think than people really understand.

999
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 3: But if you really do understand stand, particularly right now

1000
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 3: that most people's identities are wrapped up online, and particularly

1001
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:43,959
Speaker 3: young children between TikTok and Instagram, and you know, their

1002
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 3: lives are being played out every single day on a device,

1003
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:53,560
Speaker 3: and anything that tarnishes that image is davickaging emotionally and

1004
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 3: mentally and certainly socially. And so as a result of that,

1005
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:00,360
Speaker 3: it's really coming to understand that while in the adult

1006
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 3: who doesn't understand this has got to put themselves in

1007
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:05,759
Speaker 3: the mindset of a sixteen year old at a high

1008
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:09,880
Speaker 3: school where this stuff could be running rapid in seconds,

1009
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:11,960
Speaker 3: and that's why it's really important that people get on

1010
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:15,720
Speaker 3: top of it quickly and try and stop the spread

1011
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 3: as fast as possible.

1012
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I am so happy I found you. Like

1013
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:24,960
Speaker 1: this was such an amazing and definitely informative conversation because

1014
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure a lot of women can relate a

1015
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:29,839
Speaker 1: lot of people in general can relate to this. So

1016
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:31,800
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being a guest on the show.

1017
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 2: Oh you're so welcome. I really appreciate you inviting me.

1018
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 3: If I might again leave the links in case there's

1019
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:41,600
Speaker 3: someone who'd like to learn more, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1020
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 3: So it's five Oh so fifty Shades of Silence dot com.

1021
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:49,759
Speaker 1: I gotta ask you one more question. Sure, so you

1022
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 1: be getting high?

1023
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:57,359
Speaker 2: Yeah you want to do another show, Let's do it.

1024
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 1: You know what's so funny because I feel like when

1025
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 1: I have like, you know, women that are older than me,

1026
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 1: I want to be respectful. And also when I have

1027
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 1: professional women, you know, people who I look up to,

1028
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:10,880
Speaker 1: and I am myer and I try to maintain my

1029
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:13,600
Speaker 1: language and be respectful. But then when you start popping

1030
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:17,880
Speaker 1: off and shit, I'm like, oh, okay, relent, I'm like,

1031
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 1: she begetting high. Listen, y'all. She still looks good. She

1032
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 1: looks amazing. So I know you got men always on use.

1033
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:26,960
Speaker 1: I'm like, yo, he really dropped the ball with you.

1034
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, he certainly did. Yeah, but no, back to that conversation.

1035
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:35,359
Speaker 3: So, like, I do advocate the use of plant medicine, psychedelics,

1036
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 3: and cannabis for the use of.

1037
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 2: For medicinal purposes.

1038
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 3: Right, I'm not a doctor, so I'm not advocating people

1039
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:44,359
Speaker 3: go use it.

1040
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 2: But I am a spokes I'm an open.

1041
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:52,880
Speaker 3: Channel in terms of delivering stories and conversations about it

1042
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:57,560
Speaker 3: because I have seen and no firsthand the kinds of

1043
00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:02,120
Speaker 3: transformations that people can have with these amazing plants. And

1044
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 3: you know, cannabis is one, right, and then when you

1045
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:09,800
Speaker 3: are using plant medicine and psychedelics, it's entirely different.

1046
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:11,520
Speaker 2: And so the experience, while it might be.

1047
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:13,879
Speaker 3: Out of body, it's not like an every day high

1048
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:19,360
Speaker 3: like if you are and the changes can be so substantial,

1049
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:22,360
Speaker 3: and so you know, my conversations on the way of

1050
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:26,480
Speaker 3: the healer is to really advocate for education, for understanding,

1051
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:30,160
Speaker 3: for the awareness and the responsible use of these things.

1052
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:31,720
Speaker 1: That's right, responsible, y'all.

1053
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:33,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely.

1054
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:35,920
Speaker 1: If y'all have any questions, comments, with concerns, please make

1055
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 1: sure to email me at hello at the pgpodcast dot com.

1056
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:43,839
Speaker 1: And until next time, everyone, and don't forget to subscribe

1057
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 1: to my YouTube page at the Professional Homegirl. Key key

1058
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:50,319
Speaker 1: with me on Instagram at the Professional Homegirl and at

1059
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:54,000
Speaker 1: the PG podcast, and don't forget to read my love

1060
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:58,600
Speaker 1: letters at day th h E y all A L

1061
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:06,160
Speaker 1: L D E one dot com. Later you're not gonna

1062
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:07,200
Speaker 1: say bye.

1063
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 2: Oh byby. Thanks for listening, everybody. I enjoyed it. Thanks

1064
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:13,759
Speaker 2: so much for inviting me. This was so good. I

1065
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 2: appreciate it.

1066
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:19,439
Speaker 1: The Professional Homegirl Podcast is a production of the Black

1067
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:23,640
Speaker 1: Effect Podcast Network. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the

1068
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

1069
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:30,200
Speaker 1: favorite shows, don't forget to subscribe and rate the show,

1070
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:32,919
Speaker 1: and you can connect with me on social media at

1071
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 1: the PHG podcast