1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,800 Speaker 1: There's a brand new website causing a lot of trouble 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: for people with something to hide? Have you ever had 3 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: a bad feeling about somebody, suspect that a partner of cheating, 4 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: worried about your online reputation? If you answer yes to 5 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: any of those questions, you may need truth Finder. Truth 6 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: Finder may reveal court records, bankruptcies, contact information, social dating profiles, assets, 7 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: and a lot more. You get it all in one 8 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: easy to read report. Why work out thousands of dollars 9 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 1: to a private eye when you can do the job yourself. 10 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: Go to truth finder dot com, slash Nancy and enter 11 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:47,560 Speaker 1: any name to get started. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace 12 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: on Serious x M Triumph Channel one thirty two. How 13 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: many stories have you read about where there was a 14 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: violent crime, a child less station, a rape, a murder, 15 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: or worse if you can imagine it, only to discover 16 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: the perpetrator was out on bond at the time of 17 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: the offense. The revolving door in our justice system resulting 18 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: in more and more violent crimes on innocent victims. I 19 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: mean it, See Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you 20 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: for being with us. An all star lineup with me 21 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: now to address the most recent string of attacks by 22 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: people out on bond while at this moment, so called 23 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:44,279 Speaker 1: bail bond reform is sweeping the country, which allows people 24 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: who commit a crime to walk free with nothing more 25 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: than a piece of paper in their hand, no accountability 26 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 1: as more victims are added to the lists of statistics. 27 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 1: With me Star of Reality to v the President of 28 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: Professional Bill Agents of the US, Beth Chapman. Also with me, 29 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: defense lawyer Jason Oceans practicing in multiple jurisdictions, juvenile judge, 30 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: founder of child crime watch dot Com, Ashley Willcot Crime 31 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: Stories investigative reporter Jennifer Sakowski, and with me bail bondsman 32 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:27,239 Speaker 1: Scott Hall. Everyone welcome. First of all, to you, Jennifer, 33 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 1: I want to talk about first Ed French. I'm sure 34 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: you know who I'm talking about. Why does he factor 35 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:41,799 Speaker 1: into this scenario? So this story starts with nineteen year 36 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: old La Monte Mims and twenty year old Fantacy Decorps 37 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: in San Francisco. LaMonte Mims he had been caught breaking 38 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: into cars in Twin Peaks in November of two thousand sixteen. 39 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: He served a mere three months in jail. Then on 40 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: July for Earth he was busted yet again, this time 41 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: for gun possession and parole violations, not small charges. Only 42 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: seven days later, on July eleven, he was let out 43 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:18,359 Speaker 1: on an a thirtive case management a pre trial program 44 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:23,119 Speaker 1: requiring chickens. They actually trusted this man to do checkens. 45 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: The judge in that case was following the public safety 46 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 1: Assessment which is also called the p p s A score. 47 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: Then only five days later after that Nancy are very 48 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: talented by all accounts, successful and good hearted man a French. 49 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: He was an avid photographer in San Francisco. He was 50 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 1: presumed to have been sitting against a wall taking beautiful 51 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: shots down Market Street with you're talking about a world 52 00:03:56,120 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: renowned photographer, Ed France. She was photographing a sunrise at 53 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: Twin Peaks and this man and woman sneak up on 54 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: him and murder him on the spot, just to steal 55 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 1: his camera. And as Honda Accord officers make a desperate 56 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 1: plea for tourists that may have video footage around that time. 57 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: And it was seven fifty in the morning. I mean, 58 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: come on, Beth Chapman, you're the reality star. Everybody you know, 59 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: dog the bounty hunter. This is best Chapman, Dog's wife 60 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,160 Speaker 1: who was his co star for many many years now 61 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: the president of the Professional Bill Agents of the US. 62 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 1: At seven fifty in the morning, I'm driving the children 63 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: to school. I've been up since five working, and these 64 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: two are crawling up the side of a mountain so 65 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: they can murder somebody, a professional photographer world renown. This 66 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: is why we need accountability. Beth absolutely should have been 67 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:00,599 Speaker 1: in jail. There's no way that he should have gotten 68 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,600 Speaker 1: out a second time, nor the third time. And you know, 69 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: the thing about it is a lot of these people 70 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: have underlining problems and they don't realize those guys are 71 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:12,039 Speaker 1: up all night long. They're up all night long, you know, 72 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: they're they're not sleeping. So there, you know, we used 73 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: to call that tweaked time. You know, it's when they 74 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 1: really don't know what time it is, they don't know 75 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: where they are, what they're doing, and they just commit 76 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 1: basically crime after crime after crime, you know. And that's 77 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: that's the problem with all of these pre trial movements 78 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: is that there's no stop gaps. There's no common sense 79 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 1: parameters that basically say, you know, look, if you're on 80 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: bond already, you don't get another one. If you fail 81 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 1: to appear already, don't get one. If you're just been 82 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 1: convicted of a crime, you're not getting one. And that's 83 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,840 Speaker 1: what's really bothersome about the whole system. Well, this guy 84 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 1: was only about half a mile from his own home 85 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 1: and he's out. This professional photographer. There was a seventy 86 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 1: one year old man. He's been a world right now 87 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 1: photographer for years and years and years. And these two 88 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 1: knee up on the guy, murder him, shoot him in 89 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: the head for his camera. And as Honda Accord, Jason Oceans, 90 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: how can you, as of upstanding a very well known 91 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: defense attorney, support the so called bond reform for people 92 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,599 Speaker 1: basically for a lot of different crimes get a ticket 93 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: and walk free. They don't have to post any bond 94 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: and they just walk free. There's no it's like a 95 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: pinky promise, Jason Oceans. Nancy, we know that anyone who's 96 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,119 Speaker 1: arrested has presumed innocent under the law, and of course, 97 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: man fact, the innocent uh mostly guilty just to get out. 98 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: That's a repulsive practice. I mean I could cite many 99 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 1: cases of you know, a single mother in Harris County, 100 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 1: Texas who was arrested driving without a valid license, Judge 101 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: Setter bail. She couldn't afford anything. But see, that's not 102 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: the issue we're talking about. That's not the that's not 103 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: the issue we're even talking about. Jason. I'm not talking 104 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: about a graphic violation, Nancy, about valid bail reform and 105 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: the Heinish cases that we could all point out. Uh, 106 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: just like in ed French. Uh, there is like that 107 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: and so many are locked up. Well, of course you've 108 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: done a great job, Jason, of smoke and mirrors taking 109 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: it off. What we're talking about violent offenders getting out 110 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: and then repeat offending while they're on bail, while their 111 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: own bond. And with me two stars Beth Chapman and 112 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: Scott Hall in the industry respond plays Beth, Well, I 113 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: would I would like to discuss this with Jason, obviously, 114 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: because you know, there's an underlying crime here, okay, And 115 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: whether it's a misdemeanor or not a misdemeanor, we can't 116 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: just excuse the fact that this mother, the single mother, 117 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: as you said, was driving her car without a license. 118 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: That's a crime. It's a crime, okay, And so what 119 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: all of these you know, leftist people are are are boasting, 120 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: is that we should just turn a blind eye because 121 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: it's a minor crime. We should just turn the blind 122 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: eye because it was a you know, a driving offense. 123 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: You know, multiple driving offenses becomes a habitual traffic offender, 124 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: that becomes a prisonable offense. You know, we we cannot 125 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: just continue to just say, oh, it was just a 126 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: minor crime, just let him go because there's victims involved. 127 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: Oh wait a minute, Beth, let me one up here 128 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: on this, Let me one up here on this. Does 129 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: the name Timothy McVeigh ring any alarms, any bells in 130 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: your heads? He was stopped on a traffic infraction, Scott Hall. 131 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: We all know that he's the Okay City bomber. He 132 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: brought down a whole federal building. So I'm not saying 133 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: I want people in jail FIRS traffic offense. That is 134 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 1: not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is don't make 135 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 1: light of those traffic stops. I'm focusing on people that 136 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: commit a crime, a substantive crime, and then they walk free. 137 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:01,559 Speaker 1: And this bill reform idea is a horrible idea. It's 138 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: really an attack on victims. I mean, victims are the 139 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 1: ones that are in fact, denied justice when individuals failed 140 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:13,439 Speaker 1: to appear. Bail is about one thing, It's about getting 141 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: someone to appear in court. And I'm so glad he 142 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 1: brought up Harris County, Texas, because the assertions in Harris 143 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: County when they put forth the injunction, they said there 144 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: would be no difference in the appearance rate, no difference. 145 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: And right now they just attempted to file an injunction 146 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: because full one half of their calendar, almost fifty of 147 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 1: the people that are charged with a crime are failing 148 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: to appear in court, fifty of the victims. And you 149 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 1: may think just because it's non violent, but the poor 150 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:52,439 Speaker 1: black and brown victims of crime that live in the project, 151 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: that have their win, that broke out of their car, 152 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: that have their rent money stolen, Okay, they're the ones 153 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: that are being affected. You're the ones that are being 154 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: victimized a second and a third time, and they're the 155 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: ones that are going to take the law in their 156 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: own hand. And that mother that depends on that money 157 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: that was stolen, that the that the proponents of this 158 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: change you're saying we're helping, you're harming the very people 159 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: that you're saying you're advocating for Okay, we're over here 160 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: advocating for the law abiding people and the victims of 161 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: Chris Well. I'll tell you what concerns me and Ashley Wilcot, 162 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 1: this is what discurs me. In addition to Beth Chapman, 163 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: star reality TV dog Bounty Hunter, Jason Ocean's lawyer, Jennifer Zakowski, 164 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:41,079 Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter and Heavy dot com Steve Hall, 165 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: Ash Wilcott JUVENI I'll judge and founder child crime watch 166 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,559 Speaker 1: dot com. When I hear all the A c o 167 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: U and the defense attorneys are and the politicians are 168 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: for it, half the politicians are defense lawyers, all right. 169 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: So when I hear there for it, what does that 170 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: mean to me? It means it's bad for crime victims. 171 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: It is a matter of fact. Guess who else is 172 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:11,079 Speaker 1: against it? California judges, judicial societies all across the country 173 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: are coming out against so called bail bond reform. Explain 174 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: why it is so wrong, Ashley. So from the judges perspective, 175 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: there two reasons. Number one, it does not take into 176 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 1: account the victim. It does not take that into account. 177 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 1: Number two, remember this, Nancy, I've been involved in a 178 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: lot of legislation down at the Capitol. And here's the thing. 179 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:40,679 Speaker 1: Most of these proposed pieces of legislation, these included our 180 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 1: knee jerk reactions by some person who's decided it's a 181 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: great idea and it's not well thought out research based 182 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,959 Speaker 1: on empirical research or data to ensure that victims are protected. 183 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: And that's what needs to happen that hasn't in proposed 184 00:11:56,600 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: legislation like that. You know. Back to you, Beth Chapman, 185 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: star of Dog the Bounding Hunter. This is Dog's wife. 186 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: I don't like introducing you that way as somebody else's wife. 187 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 1: You were also the president of the Professional Bill Agents 188 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 1: of the US, Beth. Uh. When I would get ready 189 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: at every prosecutor that was actually a trial lawyer, you know, 190 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: and actually appeared in court had to do bond hearings 191 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 1: as well. For a bond hearing, I may bring on 192 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: a witness that saw or was the victim of the crime, 193 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: a cop. I would have the rap sheet, the state 194 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 1: rap sheet and the federal rap sheet of defendants trying 195 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: to get out, suspects trying to get out, and I 196 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: would discuss all the reasons somebody should or shouldn't get 197 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 1: out of bond. Are they a risk, a flight risk? 198 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: Are they a threat to the community? Will they tamper 199 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: with witnesses? Is it in the cause of justice that 200 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: they get out? There are a lot of prongs to 201 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: a bond hearing. The judges are saying this beath. The 202 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: judges are saying that they proposed ows this because they 203 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: have their own standards about who walks free. Quote those 204 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: arrested for selling drugs, identity theft, vandalizing homes, businesses, stealing 205 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: huge sums of money, burglarizing. All of these people would 206 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: be granted pre trial release without ever appearing in front 207 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: of a judge. I don't want to see that person 208 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 1: walking across my backyard, Beth Chapman, Well, repeatedly walking across 209 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: your backyard, so right after you get him arrested, he 210 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: comes right back. I mean, that's that's the biggest problem 211 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: with this. But you know, taking the judges discretion out 212 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: of the equation is never going to be a good idea. 213 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: And you know, for people who just continue to say 214 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 1: the bail bondsman's are just making money off the poor. 215 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: Was so are the lawyers. You know, lawyers aren't giving 216 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:53,679 Speaker 1: their practices away for free. I'm sure your defense attorney 217 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 1: here on the line. I'm sure he charges money, you know. 218 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 1: So it's it's all smoke in mirrors. Like you've said before, 219 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 1: it is a socialist idea. It's a basic a hugg 220 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:09,959 Speaker 1: a thug campaign that is trendy right now because they 221 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 1: have gone down and they have convinced lawmakers and they've 222 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: convinced mayors of towns that they could save so much 223 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: money by releasing these people from jail. But the fact 224 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: is is that they have to have more pre trial 225 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: workers to take care of the massive amount of people 226 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: that they're releasing. So there is no money's saved because 227 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: all they're doing is taking it out of the jail 228 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: column and putting it into the pre trial Champion, Nancy, 229 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 1: It's important to understand and Harris County, Texas, the judges 230 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 1: are the ones that are fighting this reform. The judges 231 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: are the ones that are encouraging the county to continue 232 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 1: because they now see what's happening to their calendar. And 233 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: the proponents of these reforms typically take basically an exception. 234 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: They look for a very very narrow exception someone that 235 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: might in rather than basically fighting for a safety net okay, 236 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: some sort of safety net to take care of these 237 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: They want to throw the baby out with the bath water. 238 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 1: And what they're doing is they're victimizing again the very 239 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: constituents they advocate for, and that's the poor black and 240 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: brown members of our society that need help that don't 241 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: have an advocate. And that's what we are pushing for. 242 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: The bondsman, in many cases, are the way for these 243 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: people to get out. They're not rich, okay, when they 244 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: don't have money for a bond, they in fact come 245 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: to us to help them financing. We don't set the bond. 246 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: We're not the people that says release them. A judge 247 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: does that. And they even advocate for these algorithmic releases 248 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: in attempt to replace Oh no, no, no, no, no no, 249 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: Ash Wilcott. You're a victims advocate like myself. I don't 250 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: want somebody an offender walking free based on a logarithm. 251 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 1: No no. And but here's the thing, Anthy, if they 252 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: would be deliberate in this, they could come up with 253 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: a risk assessment based on empirical research and data that 254 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: a judge could do with the judge's discretion and still 255 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: protect those in society that will be harmed by these 256 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: continuing criminal perpetrators. Did you know about a recent law 257 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: that could leave your personal data exposed online for anybody 258 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: to find. If you've turned on the news lately, you 259 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: know the Internet has created a dangerous new world. Data 260 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: breaches exposed private information. There's a new cybersecurity threat every 261 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: other day, and criminals can sell the identity of you 262 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: and your family on the dart web. It's time you 263 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: take the power back by using a new website called 264 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: truth Finder. Truth Finder allows you to find out exactly 265 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: what information exists about you online. Have you gotten a 266 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 1: speeding ticket, received a lean from the I R S, 267 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: forgotten about an embarrassed seeing social media profile. Truth Finders 268 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 1: searches through millions of public records, puts all that data 269 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: together and one easy to read report. Members get unlimited searches, 270 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 1: so you can also look up those close to you 271 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: and make sure they're not hiding something from their past. 272 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: You also get free dart Web monitoring to make truth 273 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 1: Finder the ultimate tool in identity protection. If your personal 274 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: info appears for sale on the dart web, you'll be 275 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: the first to know. Visit truth finder dot com slash 276 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 1: Nancy enter your own name. Get started. Let me go 277 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 1: back to Jennifer Tikowski with heavy dot Com and crime 278 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: Stories investigative reporter. I believe you have another case where 279 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: the guys out on bond and commits a serious offense, Nancy, 280 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 1: and this one is absolutely horrifying. Shook me to my core. 281 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: I just starts with Cherished Peri Weekle out of Jacksonville, Florida, 282 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: in innocent eight year old girl, Cherish, who was at 283 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: Dollar General. She was shopping with her mother, Rain Perrywinkle, 284 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: and two sisters when a man approached them. This man 285 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: was Donald Smith. He seemed like a really good man 286 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: to Cherry, to Cherish his mother, he befriended her and 287 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: then made what the mother thought was a general generous 288 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 1: offer to buy the girl's clothes with a hundred dollar 289 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:28,439 Speaker 1: gift card that he said he had for Walmart. He 290 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: also claimed that his wife was going to meet the 291 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: family at Walmart. So this mother, Rain Perrywinkle said she 292 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: told him, I don't quote with strangers, but if your 293 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: wife is coming, then it's going to be okay. She 294 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: made it up in her mind. You know it. It 295 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 1: will be fine. Rain Perrywinkle gathered her children into Smith's 296 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: white band for wife a ride to Walmart. Surveillance video 297 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: at the store showed Rain, the girls, and Donald Smith 298 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:03,920 Speaker 1: shopping at Walmart for over an hour. In that time period, 299 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 1: Cherished Periwinkle, the eldest of the three daughters, She went 300 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: with Donald Smith several times over the shoes section of 301 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: the store. The mom later said that she didn't think 302 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: much of it because she felt she was in a 303 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:23,920 Speaker 1: safe place being in Walmart, Rain watched Cherish, her beloved 304 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: daughter with Donald Smith walk away, and heartbreakingly, she had 305 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: no idea. She didn't realize this was going to be 306 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,119 Speaker 1: the last time that she would ever see her daughter. 307 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 1: She went to meet Donald at the registers just as 308 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: the door the store was closing too, presumably by these 309 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,679 Speaker 1: clothes for the children, and lo and behold, Donald doesn't 310 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: show up. At that point, the red flags went up 311 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 1: and she called nine one one and reported her daughter, 312 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 1: Cherished as being kidnapped. It then seems Rain really had 313 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: a premonition when she told the nine one an operator 314 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,400 Speaker 1: in her words, I hope to God he doesn't kill her. 315 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 1: I hope to God he doesn't rape her. I don't 316 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: understand why, we why he would have left right now 317 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,639 Speaker 1: unless he's going to rape and kill her. That's the 318 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: only reason so this tour and all to trusting. Mother 319 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: told the operator that the only reason she let Donald 320 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 1: Smith do this, it's because her girls truly needed the clothing. Well, 321 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 1: I think we all know the rest of that story. 322 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: Jason Oceans Cherish Periwinkle was raped and murdered, and the 323 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 1: killer had been really the recipient of the revolving door justice. 324 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: He would go in and out for stalking children, for 325 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: child pornography, for raping young girls. He had been in 326 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 1: and out and in and out of the system. Jason, 327 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: he was out. Why was he out? And with him 328 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,920 Speaker 1: in mind, why in the world would we even consider 329 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 1: people walking free without posting bail or bond and going 330 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,120 Speaker 1: through the bond and bill process. You sign a piece 331 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: of paper, you walk out, your pinky swear you'll show 332 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:18,640 Speaker 1: back up and you'll behave It doesn't work that way. 333 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 1: This guy was out and he murdered Cherish. Weigh in, Scott, 334 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: I would like to make the point about it's not 335 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 1: only about these horrendous crimes. If we all should agree 336 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 1: that these people shouldn't be roaming the streets at all, 337 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 1: but Let's just take the chains at the City of 338 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: Atlanta just recently made on the misdemeanor shop listing. You've 339 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:40,880 Speaker 1: got charges. You can go into a loose and sent 340 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,919 Speaker 1: and steal five dollars, steal a toolbox, walk out, and 341 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 1: if you get caught. See if Atlanta won't even send 342 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: a police officer to your store. And if their security 343 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: takes you to the City of Atlanta and they book 344 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 1: you in and your charge, they release you immediately, Okay, 345 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,919 Speaker 1: no ending of fact, no criminal history, that release you immediately. 346 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 1: And if you fail to appear, they don't have a 347 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: fugitive squad that chases people on these misdemeanor charges, so 348 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 1: they're hoping some other agency will accidentally catch you. So 349 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: you're roaming. Now, Let's assume Hall County, which is over 350 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: fifty miles from the City of Atlanta, accidentally stops you. 351 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 1: City of Atlanta won't even send two officers to pick 352 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:31,359 Speaker 1: you up over fifty miles because it's not a justifiable 353 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 1: use of resources. It is absolutely insane that they would 354 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 1: in fact set these policies basically encouraging people to commit 355 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 1: because you're harming people that have businesses. You wonder why 356 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: these dollar generals and places close and these poorest of 357 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: neighborhoods because they're stolen to deaths and you lose those 358 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,919 Speaker 1: jobs and you lose that vital business in that community. 359 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: We are enabling, if not encouraging, bad behavior. And that's 360 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: what the criminal justice system is supposed to deter. We're 361 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: supposed to say no, this is not conduct. And unfortunately 362 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:13,879 Speaker 1: the laws in our country are merely becoming suggestions. You 363 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: don't see these suggestions in these other countries. You know, 364 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: if you break the law, you stay in ja. In 365 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,159 Speaker 1: our country, we say it's no big deal. You know 366 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 1: what's interesting. Back to Beth Chapman, star of Dog, the 367 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: Mounting Hunter, President Professional Bill Agents of the US. You're 368 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: gonna laugh, Beth. And this is anecdotal. This is not 369 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: a statistic that I've come up with. But I recall 370 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 1: every time when I first came as a new prosecutor 371 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 1: and I would hear the older seasoned veterans say peeping Tom, 372 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 1: and I would at first thought, well, peeping time's a misdemeanor. 373 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,919 Speaker 1: It's nothing you so you peeked in the window. Guarantee 374 00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:00,679 Speaker 1: your Beth, Peeping Tom graduates and I and explain it 375 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,959 Speaker 1: I'm not a shrink, but they turn into a rapist 376 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: or a felony while you're I mean, I can't describe it. 377 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:14,639 Speaker 1: But what I'm saying, yes, yes, you're right, Jason. What 378 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: I'm saying is that's a misdemeanor. But I know the 379 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: psychopathy of a peeping tom turns into a felon. I mean, 380 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: like look at b t K. Dennis Rader buying torture kill. 381 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 1: He was a dog catcher. Okay, he had little things 382 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,479 Speaker 1: that people thought were odd his whole life. Little did 383 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: they know he's a serial murderer. And I'm not saying 384 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 1: that people with a traffic violation because Jason Ocean is 385 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: gonna get all tuned up about that lady with the 386 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: traffic violation. What what I'm saying is, Beth Chapman, is 387 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: that you let people walk on all of these offenses, 388 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: some of them not really misdemeanors, without some kind of 389 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 1: secure already or some kind of vetting process. We're unleashing 390 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,640 Speaker 1: a whole canner hurt on the on the innocent public. Beth. 391 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: But Nancy, Nancy, now about you are not there? You are, 392 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:20,120 Speaker 1: Jason Oceans, hold on, well, you know, look we're we're 393 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: taking away accountability. But what we're also doing is we're 394 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: taking away you know, parental uh judgment. Okay, there are 395 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: people in this country that will you know, people will say, um, 396 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: you know, the guy is in jail because these four 397 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,880 Speaker 1: they can't come up with the money. It's not always 398 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 1: true that they can't come up with the money. It's 399 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,159 Speaker 1: sometimes their parents don't want to come up with the money. 400 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: Sometimes their family and their loved ones are sick of them, 401 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: and they know how much trouble they've been in, they 402 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: know how much drugs they're doing on a day to 403 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:57,640 Speaker 1: day basis. And sometimes these people are glad when they 404 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 1: finally find out that their love one is in jail 405 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,920 Speaker 1: because that may be the only thing that saves them. 406 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,439 Speaker 1: And basically, what we're doing right now is we're not 407 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: even giving them a chance to even get clean or 408 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,919 Speaker 1: get sober and let the family have a chance to 409 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: be able to talk to him and say, hey, look 410 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:15,639 Speaker 1: we'll bond you out. But these are going to be 411 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: the new rules, you know, like there's no way to 412 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,879 Speaker 1: even control these people. And quite honestly, and you know, 413 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 1: no disrespect Jason, but I gotta tell you the criminal 414 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,360 Speaker 1: element of this country is laughing at us. They are 415 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: laughing in the face of the judges. They are laughing. 416 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 1: They cannot believe how dumb we are that we're just 417 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 1: letting them out with no bonds. Hold on, hold on, 418 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,400 Speaker 1: out to bail Bondsman Scott Hall weigh in, Scott, Yes, well, 419 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: let's just take again the City of Atlanta. The City 420 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: of the City Council did a study not too long ago, 421 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,359 Speaker 1: and they said, just tell us about what's going on 422 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 1: with recticism. They found out they need a study that 423 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: a little over four hundred people accounted for over fourteen 424 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:03,880 Speaker 1: thousand crimes. Okay, now, just imagine what impact we could 425 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,239 Speaker 1: have had on the victims of crime if we just 426 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:11,120 Speaker 1: kept these four hundred people off the streets. You know what, 427 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 1: here's a perfect example, Astley Willcott. I'm gonna go to 428 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 1: Jennifer Sigowski on this Crime Stories investigative reporter Ronnie Pershing 429 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: Grantham drove ten miles the wrong way on Interstate six 430 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: forty while he's free on bond for allegedly killing two 431 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:35,199 Speaker 1: women drugged behind the wheel. Okay, he's out on bond 432 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 1: for killing two women, and then he's driving ten miles 433 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:48,120 Speaker 1: the wrong way on the interstate where everybody's going sev mph. 434 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: Help me understand why that's okay, Absolutely not okay in 435 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: my mind. These two women, Janette Hurst only four years old, 436 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 1: Tammy Shore fifty three, they lost their lives, and while 437 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:08,680 Speaker 1: this investigation was ongoing, he was released on bond on 438 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:14,159 Speaker 1: not to mention ThEC The officers found prescription painkillers and 439 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: not just you know, anything small. It was morphine oxy 440 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 1: code owns in ballium in his possession after that crash, 441 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 1: and as you know, it didn't end there. Despite that, 442 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: he was indicted and let out out of five hundred 443 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: thousand dollar bond in April. Just this past April, he 444 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: crashed his truck into two vehicles as he yet again 445 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: drove the wrong way. He drove east in the westbound 446 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: lanes on inner State and Tennessee for ten miles in 447 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: the early morning hours. He had been traveling east in 448 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 1: westbound lanes. He hit another vehicle and this monster didn't 449 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: stop there. Ten miles later, he hit a tractor trailer. 450 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: The second crash caused brandam truck to catch fire and 451 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: he was rescued by a passer by. Not sure how 452 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: I feel about that part and the God, Nancy, neither 453 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 1: neither of the two drivers who he struck were injured. 454 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: But why was he out? How on earth in this 455 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: wonderful country that I knew as a child, is this happening? 456 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: What is going on in this country? And why are 457 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: these dangerous people being let out? Now? Let me ask 458 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 1: you something to Beth Chapman, uh, star of reality TV 459 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,480 Speaker 1: and president Professional Bill Agents of the u S. Beth, 460 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: what is the purpose in a nutshell of the bail 461 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 1: bond system? Why do we need it? Well, the main 462 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 1: reason for the bail bond system is to ensure the 463 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 1: person's appearance in court. You know, this is a user 464 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 1: funded service where if you get in trouble, will help 465 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 1: you get out, but we have to make sure that 466 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: you return back to court. And if they don't return 467 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: back to court, then we go out no cost to 468 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 1: the tax fairer, and we bring them back to the 469 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,960 Speaker 1: jurisdiction of the court, and if not, we pay the 470 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: full amount of the bond to the court. Nancy, I'd 471 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 1: like to make a comment. This disgust and you know, 472 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: because if you go back in time, you know it 473 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: was really in the intention of the founders. When you're 474 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: choosed with breaking the law. Your choose your charged with 475 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: in fact committing a crime. It was their intentions that 476 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: you sit in jail until your court dates unless you 477 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: could create some kind of guarantee, and typically it was 478 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: your employer, your family member. They wanted a third party. 479 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 1: They said, all right, there is the presumption of innocence, 480 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 1: but there's also the rights of the society and victims. 481 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,800 Speaker 1: So we need to balance those two. So we're gonna 482 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: release you until we wait for the judge to ride 483 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: up on a horse. We in fact want some kind 484 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: of guarantee that the victim will actually get justice, and 485 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 1: we've been throwing We act like the victims have no right. 486 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: So the only purpose of bail is in fact to 487 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: ensure their appearance, so society at large, and most importantly 488 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: the victim of that crime. And it doesn't have to 489 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: be murder or rape. If you stole my billfole okay, 490 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 1: and you broke the window of my car, if I 491 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 1: am poor, okay, that may be my rent money for 492 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 1: the month. It's about justice for the victim, and nobody 493 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: gets justice if the accused doesn't show up. And as 494 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 1: the example I gave you in the city of Atlanta. 495 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 1: These cities and counties don't have the resources to rearrest 496 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: people again and again and again on these minor crimes. 497 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: So society has always depended on Since government can't figure out, okay, 498 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: who's gonna appear and who's not gonna appear, they say, well, 499 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 1: they need some skin in the game. And that's why 500 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 1: you want the family to come to the table. You 501 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 1: want a third party, like a bonding company, to put 502 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:04,960 Speaker 1: something of value, and that value differs what what might 503 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: be sufficient in my case might not be sufficient in 504 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,719 Speaker 1: Michael Jackson's case. Ashley Wilcott, I want to put another 505 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 1: case to you. What's out of Rossford. And this is 506 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 1: a guy that previously had no criminal record. Everybody thought 507 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: it was a great guy. Okay. His name is every 508 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 1: M Schwartz and he had been out on a hundred 509 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: thousand dollar bond on rape. And you know what happens 510 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 1: while he's out on bond on a hundred thousand dollar 511 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 1: bond that means he only has to put up ten 512 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 1: thousand dollars. He's arrested by Toledo police that's Saturday, charged 513 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: with another rape. Now this is after ten to fifteen 514 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 1: letters from relatives to the judge saying what a great 515 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 1: guy he is and vouching for him. He pled no low, 516 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 1: no contest and was found guilty of rape, a first 517 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: degree felony, but at the time he was out on bond. 518 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 1: Ashley out on bond. Why Here's what doesn't make sense 519 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: to me as a judge. I have to balance the 520 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 1: risk of the danger post to society and the likelihood 521 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 1: the defendant is going to return to court against the 522 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 1: safety of releasing that defendant on bond and ensuring that 523 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 1: that defendant will come back to court. You have to 524 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 1: look at the actual crime rape, but also is it 525 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: a misdemeanor? Is it a felony? This was a first 526 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 1: degree felony, And so the bond amount when I hear 527 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 1: that set of facts, to me is way too low 528 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: because the likelihood we all know statistically, and if you 529 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 1: read about criminals who rape, it's not about having sex, 530 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 1: it's about the anger and all the other things behind it. 531 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: And guess what they're gonna do. They're one of the 532 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 1: most likely to go out and commit that same crime again. 533 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 1: So it doesn't make sense to me why that person 534 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 1: was released on bonte And it's why courts have to 535 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,280 Speaker 1: have the discretion to do that balancing act to protect 536 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:15,359 Speaker 1: victims in society, which is why I don't think algorithms work. 537 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:19,720 Speaker 1: Yes with me, is renowed defense turning Jason Oceans Jason, 538 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 1: I hope you're also sitting down because one of his 539 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 1: rape victims was one of the people that had written 540 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 1: the character letter he raped one of his references. According 541 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 1: to police, we're not going to find in any of 542 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 1: these horrible stories anything good that we're going to talk 543 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 1: about the justice system in general, whether it's judicial discretion 544 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,400 Speaker 1: or recidivism. These are you know, broader strokes than just 545 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:49,240 Speaker 1: trying to narrow it down to reformation of the bail system. 546 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:53,839 Speaker 1: But for each of these horrible stories of victims uh 547 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: and recidivism. Uh. You you're you're faced with you know, 548 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:02,320 Speaker 1: those arrested for time on three thousand dollars of bail 549 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: and wait three years before the charges are dismissed. You 550 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: know our justice, you know what You're right. I'm agreeing 551 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,959 Speaker 1: with you on that, Jason. That's why we don't need 552 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:17,439 Speaker 1: a blanket approach to crime, because people that really don't 553 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 1: have an offense and it's really just a traffic to 554 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:23,879 Speaker 1: get fine. But what about the other ones that I'm 555 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 1: not free. I'm not saying everybody's a criminal. I'm saying 556 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 1: that this reform is no reform. And and there are 557 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,799 Speaker 1: judges who are bad judges. You've got different perspectives on 558 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:40,239 Speaker 1: the relationship of victims to society and the perpetrator. And 559 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,759 Speaker 1: and they'll low bail and they won't come back and 560 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: they'll commit more acts. So that's not within bail reform. 561 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,640 Speaker 1: That's on you know, those judges that are either elected 562 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: or appointed. But I don't think there's anything wrong with 563 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,720 Speaker 1: a risk assessment score that considers a person's flight because 564 00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,279 Speaker 1: the judge said and danger to the community and her assessment, Uh, 565 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,960 Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with that. And approaching misdemeanors, you don't 566 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 1: need for a first time offensive driving without a license, 567 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 1: notwithstanding best point that it's a crime. Everything is a crime, 568 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,759 Speaker 1: from a b misdemeanor to a felony. Well, I'm telling you, 569 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 1: I'm telling you everything is not a crime. Minding your 570 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:22,280 Speaker 1: own business and working and taking care of your family 571 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 1: is not a crime. Attacking other people, murdering, raping, peeping 572 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 1: tom the works, those are crime. Everything is not a crime. 573 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,640 Speaker 1: And frankly, Jason notions to side on the to air 574 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,239 Speaker 1: on the side of caution. I would be more draconian, 575 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:42,840 Speaker 1: more strict to protect innocent victims than this blanket. Open 576 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 1: the doors and let everybody walk free. But that's not 577 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:49,600 Speaker 1: the end of it, Best Chapman, right now, a problem 578 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:54,719 Speaker 1: with Google. What's happening? Best? Well, Google just recently um 579 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,840 Speaker 1: announced that they will no longer take Google ads from 580 00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 1: our profession from the bail industry, claiming that we are 581 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 1: you know, basic predators on the of the minorities and 582 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:13,319 Speaker 1: and the challenged folks, you know, and they are basically 583 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,359 Speaker 1: saying that they will no longer allow us to run 584 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:21,399 Speaker 1: our advertising on Google. And then Facebook out came out 585 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:25,480 Speaker 1: and and concurred with that, you know. So basically now 586 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:30,319 Speaker 1: we're talking about, you know, restricting a legal, legitimate, uh, 587 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 1: law abiding mom and pop operations who have been in 588 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:38,319 Speaker 1: existence since the founding of this country, and now they're 589 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,640 Speaker 1: being told that they can't advertise because you know, Google 590 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,840 Speaker 1: doesn't agree that people should be incarcerated. But you know, 591 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 1: the unfortunate thing about that is it it's not the 592 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,720 Speaker 1: bail agents who are incarcerating them. It's not the bail 593 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 1: agents who are setting bail. We don't use their funded service. 594 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,920 Speaker 1: That is a vital, important service. And we've been here 595 00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 1: and existence for more than two hundred years. You know, 596 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,320 Speaker 1: the court sets the bond, the d a s set 597 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 1: the pace for the case. We just assure and guarantee 598 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 1: their appearance. That's that's the way it is. You know, 599 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 1: Facebook came out yesterday and said that you know that 600 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:17,920 Speaker 1: her predatorial um practices has no place on Facebook. Well, 601 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 1: I think that you can go to Facebook and you 602 00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:23,960 Speaker 1: can find a lot of predatorial businesses being advertised there 603 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,279 Speaker 1: on a day to day basis, you know. And I 604 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:30,360 Speaker 1: feel that you know, Google and uh Google Ads and 605 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,719 Speaker 1: Facebook have become too big, too powerful. They control too 606 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,399 Speaker 1: much of the market share, and it's easy for them 607 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,080 Speaker 1: to just start bullying people by saying, you know, we're 608 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:41,719 Speaker 1: not gonna let you advertise your anymore because we don't 609 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,719 Speaker 1: like you, we don't like what you do. Nancy. It's 610 00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 1: a very slippery slope when you've got someone who's large 611 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:52,040 Speaker 1: as Google trying to make these policy decisions. Assume what 612 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,799 Speaker 1: they're alleging is that the bonding community, which is in 613 00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:59,759 Speaker 1: fact helping these poor people get out of jail or 614 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,120 Speaker 1: some how taking advantage or are they gonna stop allowing 615 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:08,360 Speaker 1: the lottery to advertise. Are they gonna stop allowing criminal 616 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:12,399 Speaker 1: defense attorneys who in fact take advantage in their mind 617 00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 1: because they charge a fee. I mean, anybody that makes 618 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,120 Speaker 1: money the critical what about the banks? The bank charge 619 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 1: you thirty and forty dollars for a five dollar bad 620 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:26,239 Speaker 1: check that bounces, okay, is that usury? I mean it's 621 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:28,959 Speaker 1: a very slippery slope that they're going down, and they're 622 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,680 Speaker 1: in fact preventing these people that need us the most 623 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:39,400 Speaker 1: from obtaining their liberty because without companies willing to stand 624 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:43,120 Speaker 1: in there instead. Basically, you know many cases if you've 625 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 1: got someone and we keep talking about these very large bonds. 626 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:48,600 Speaker 1: I mean, at the end of the day, I think 627 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,000 Speaker 1: our average bond in George is about fifteen hundred dollars, 628 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,640 Speaker 1: so the fee is a hundred and fifty dollars so 629 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 1: and and people should be up in arms when you 630 00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 1: see like that in Bibb County, Georgia, where you had 631 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,600 Speaker 1: a woman who was pregnant delivering a pizza, okay, to 632 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:08,839 Speaker 1: a door. He got beat up by the people that 633 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 1: he delivered the pizza too, and they impact released her 634 00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,719 Speaker 1: on like a sevent d dollar bond. I mean that 635 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,440 Speaker 1: he is insane. And you know, for Google to basically 636 00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 1: to be influenced by these liberal groups that have no 637 00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:26,040 Speaker 1: intention of focusing on the acception, Well what what what 638 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:29,160 Speaker 1: it concerns me about, guys? And I'm gonna throw this 639 00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,360 Speaker 1: to Jason Oceans who have disagreed so far. Jason Oceans 640 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:37,240 Speaker 1: and Ashley woke up with me. Ashtley juvenal judge Jason 641 00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:41,400 Speaker 1: defense lawyer. Jason an issue about not being able to 642 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:46,080 Speaker 1: advertise it on Google or Facebook. And I know they 643 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:51,120 Speaker 1: believe they have their reasons, but here's the deal. Preventing 644 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:56,240 Speaker 1: advertising does not reduce the need to make a bond. Okay, 645 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,240 Speaker 1: it's just gonna make it harder to find a lender. 646 00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:03,480 Speaker 1: I mean, bail bonding is legal in our country, and 647 00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 1: even if reforms go through, the so called reforms that 648 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,960 Speaker 1: I oppose, even if they go through, they're still going 649 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:15,320 Speaker 1: to be bail bonding all more serious crimes, not peeping 650 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:17,800 Speaker 1: tom or not, you know, steal in a car maybe, 651 00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:20,360 Speaker 1: but other crimes. You still got to make a bond, 652 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,239 Speaker 1: or you gotta try to make a bond. Taking it 653 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:28,319 Speaker 1: off Google or Facebook. That makes people that do want 654 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,759 Speaker 1: to make a bond, it's gonna be impossible for they 655 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,520 Speaker 1: can't find a bondsman because they can't get access to 656 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,480 Speaker 1: do it. Jason, No, I I don't necessarily disagree with that. 657 00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:38,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know how the advance will affect 658 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,400 Speaker 1: bail bond Agencies bott Online, but I think the website 659 00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 1: will just have to still come up on. I'm not 660 00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,840 Speaker 1: talking about Bill Bondsman just because I've got to well 661 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,440 Speaker 1: known Bill bons And I'm talking about people, your clients 662 00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,920 Speaker 1: that are trying to make a bond. Hey, for me, 663 00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,800 Speaker 1: fine lock the door, keep them all in there until 664 00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,239 Speaker 1: they plead guilty or they go to trial. Okay, I'm 665 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,240 Speaker 1: okay with that. But if you're gonna make a bond, 666 00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:10,520 Speaker 1: the Yellow Pages, the what the What, people go to Google, 667 00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:14,359 Speaker 1: and you take this down, how are your people gonna 668 00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,400 Speaker 1: get a bond? Jason. They can't even google it to 669 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:20,400 Speaker 1: the time bail Bondsman. Here in New York City, in 670 00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,520 Speaker 1: the Tri State area, they're just ride all over around 671 00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:25,960 Speaker 1: the court. So I don't know that you have to 672 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,960 Speaker 1: go seeking and looking. They're just right there. So self 673 00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:33,160 Speaker 1: advertising across the street. Well, the family that makes the bond, 674 00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:37,960 Speaker 1: Grandma that makes the bond Who's at home and she's 675 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,520 Speaker 1: telling her, a fifteen year old granddaughter, Hey, yeah, what 676 00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,960 Speaker 1: what's a bond company? That girl is going to go 677 00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:49,160 Speaker 1: on her iPhones like my ten year old do, and 678 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:52,520 Speaker 1: they're gonna look it up on Google, just like I do. Mananthy, 679 00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:56,720 Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not against advertising. I'm not against bail bonds. Uh. 680 00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,319 Speaker 1: When we're gonna talk about bail reformed, there's a lot 681 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,680 Speaker 1: more that in your sex this uh, and it's comprehensive. 682 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,080 Speaker 1: So you know, while you're taking the stories of evil 683 00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,640 Speaker 1: that happen in recidivism and those who are you know, 684 00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,080 Speaker 1: jumping jumping bad people that are out on bond that 685 00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:15,439 Speaker 1: commit violent crimes, no one, no one is supporting that 686 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,799 Speaker 1: aspect of our criminal justice system. And you well know, 687 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:23,879 Speaker 1: as a veteran prosecutor, the pluses and minuses of our system. 688 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:25,640 Speaker 1: So if we're going to do bail reform, we've got 689 00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:30,959 Speaker 1: to do it comprehensively. Give the power back. I'm all 690 00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:34,799 Speaker 1: about bill reform. I'm okay bill with bill reform, but 691 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,799 Speaker 1: not this bill reform. Okay, I don't like what they're 692 00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:41,040 Speaker 1: doing right here. But the other thing about not being 693 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:46,160 Speaker 1: allowed to advertise is is crazy asthlet know. The problem 694 00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,240 Speaker 1: with that is here, Google is or any other company 695 00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,080 Speaker 1: like that, Facebook, whoever it is that says you can't 696 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:56,160 Speaker 1: advertise this service because we fundamentally disagree, and we're on 697 00:43:56,239 --> 00:44:00,400 Speaker 1: board with reform that has to happen before is wrap. 698 00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:03,440 Speaker 1: It is using its power as a monopoly. It's not 699 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:05,800 Speaker 1: truly a monopoly. But look at the number of users 700 00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:09,319 Speaker 1: right and everybody googles everything to find out I can use. 701 00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:13,279 Speaker 1: They are doing that in order to lobby. It's what 702 00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:15,719 Speaker 1: their lobbyists should be doing at the capitol, which is 703 00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:18,320 Speaker 1: why I go back to my first statement, which listen, 704 00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:21,120 Speaker 1: if you want to change any type of legislation has 705 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,759 Speaker 1: got to be deliberate and well thought out in order 706 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:29,320 Speaker 1: to ensure it's best for everyone's rights involved, including society, 707 00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:33,120 Speaker 1: including victims. And there's another thing to you, Beth Chapman. 708 00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:39,200 Speaker 1: Research shows that suspects released on commercial bail in other words, 709 00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,560 Speaker 1: somebody be at them or their grandma or their mom 710 00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:47,080 Speaker 1: or dad wife, people that put up money or how 711 00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:50,799 Speaker 1: spawned bail are more much more likely to show up 712 00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:56,320 Speaker 1: for trial than their counterparts that are released in other ways. 713 00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:00,520 Speaker 1: Not only that, bounty hunters are more likely than police 714 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:05,560 Speaker 1: to capture those people who jump bail. That's important. Why 715 00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:09,280 Speaker 1: is that Because most fugitive squads don't exist anymore. Cops 716 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:11,879 Speaker 1: are just trying to catch the new criminals. We don't 717 00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:14,600 Speaker 1: have time to track down the ones that jump bond. 718 00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,360 Speaker 1: That's where you come in. You know, definitely, when you 719 00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:19,880 Speaker 1: have some skin in the game and you have a 720 00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:23,600 Speaker 1: steak in what's going on in in your person's court case, 721 00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:26,560 Speaker 1: you know, you are far more likely to get someone 722 00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:29,040 Speaker 1: who's going to do what they're supposed to do. You know, 723 00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:32,880 Speaker 1: there's a there's thousands of times that I've had mercy 724 00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,160 Speaker 1: on somebody who didn't have a co signer, who didn't 725 00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:37,960 Speaker 1: have the collateral to get out of jail, but we 726 00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,080 Speaker 1: went ahead and just on their word when ahead and 727 00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:43,400 Speaker 1: let him out. I gotta tell you fifty of the 728 00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:46,479 Speaker 1: time they let me down because when there's no stake 729 00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:49,040 Speaker 1: in the game, when there's nobody on the hook for them, 730 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:52,520 Speaker 1: they just don't go. They don't come to court. There's 731 00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:56,600 Speaker 1: no repercussion, there's no detorrent. They have no reason to 732 00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:59,360 Speaker 1: basically show up. You know, if they're poor, they're not 733 00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:01,919 Speaker 1: going to show anyway because they can't afford to find 734 00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:04,200 Speaker 1: that the court's going to give them. You know, they're 735 00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:06,080 Speaker 1: better off to stay on the run for as long 736 00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:08,759 Speaker 1: as they can. I mean, you know, we're really doing 737 00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,680 Speaker 1: damage to our society. And I did want to just 738 00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:15,839 Speaker 1: touch on the on the risk assessment tool that's that's 739 00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,520 Speaker 1: been kicked around here. I don't agree with the risk 740 00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,200 Speaker 1: assessment tool because of the way the risk assessment tool 741 00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:25,200 Speaker 1: has been programmed and has been put out there. The 742 00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:29,240 Speaker 1: people who are for this, the left, who are wanting 743 00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:32,120 Speaker 1: us to um you know, go with the hugg A 744 00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:35,479 Speaker 1: thug program. They do not want you to be able 745 00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:39,799 Speaker 1: to um asked. They don't want you to be able 746 00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:43,399 Speaker 1: to consider the current charge that they're being charged with, 747 00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:45,600 Speaker 1: and they don't want you to be able to look 748 00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:49,160 Speaker 1: at any of their past criminal history. Now you cannot 749 00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:53,680 Speaker 1: judge a person or you know, as as the judges 750 00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:55,880 Speaker 1: on the phone with us has said, you know, the 751 00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:59,319 Speaker 1: discretion comes from knowing how many times the person has 752 00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:02,200 Speaker 1: been arrested, how many times you've seen that person back 753 00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:05,080 Speaker 1: in your courtroom, and how many times they actually did 754 00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:06,799 Speaker 1: what you told them to do when you sentenced them 755 00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:10,400 Speaker 1: the first However, many times. That's why the judge's discretion 756 00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:16,400 Speaker 1: is so important. You cannot replace the criminal justice system, 757 00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:21,280 Speaker 1: uh discretion with a button that is not gonna work. 758 00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:25,319 Speaker 1: These are this is criminal behavior. This is people who 759 00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:31,560 Speaker 1: you know, do drugs and have altering and changing their mindset. 760 00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:35,080 Speaker 1: They change their name, they change their number, they change 761 00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:39,040 Speaker 1: two numbers in their social Security car, their social Security number, 762 00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:41,399 Speaker 1: and they think they've gotten away with something. I mean, 763 00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:44,279 Speaker 1: you know, it has taken us years. My husband is 764 00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:46,880 Speaker 1: almost forty years in the business and I'm just coming 765 00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:50,759 Speaker 1: over thirty. This is years and years and years of 766 00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:54,680 Speaker 1: profiling the criminal element that basically tells us who we 767 00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,959 Speaker 1: can and who we cannot get out of jail. Now 768 00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:02,799 Speaker 1: handing this over to somebody with a question questionnaire that 769 00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:06,160 Speaker 1: does not include have you ever been convicted before in 770 00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:08,960 Speaker 1: the past? Have you ever failed to appear in the past? 771 00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:11,719 Speaker 1: You know, what's the severity of the crime that you're 772 00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:15,279 Speaker 1: being charged with? Now? It is ludicrous to think that 773 00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:19,040 Speaker 1: that algorithm, that risk assessment tool is going to be 774 00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:23,560 Speaker 1: able to replace you know, the human touch, the human nature, 775 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:26,279 Speaker 1: the people that are able to profile criminals for a 776 00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:28,880 Speaker 1: living and to be able to base their decision on 777 00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:32,840 Speaker 1: whether they one will reoffend, two will come back, or 778 00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:36,440 Speaker 1: three will harm someone. And those are the main questions 779 00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:39,360 Speaker 1: that need to be being asked. The risk assessment tool 780 00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,480 Speaker 1: is a joke. Now, if they come back with something better, 781 00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:44,920 Speaker 1: or they can make it better, then we would be 782 00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,759 Speaker 1: in a different place. But we're not. So since we're not, 783 00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:51,880 Speaker 1: we have to dis vigorously because otherwise all they're doing 784 00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,920 Speaker 1: is painting everybody with the same broad strokes, and everybody 785 00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:59,920 Speaker 1: should be released on minor crimes. You just can't do that. 786 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,719 Speaker 1: It just doesn't make sense. Nancy, can I make a 787 00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:06,920 Speaker 1: coment here? Sure? And you know, Harrod, we they used 788 00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,840 Speaker 1: to talk about, you know, who shows up who doesn't 789 00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,359 Speaker 1: show up? Now, well, now we've got the facts. There 790 00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,160 Speaker 1: was this case in Harris County, Texas, and they've been 791 00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:19,080 Speaker 1: under an injunction. And now the proponents of all of 792 00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:23,560 Speaker 1: these reforms that say there's absolutely no difference in the 793 00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:26,880 Speaker 1: appearance rate and there should be no difference in the 794 00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:31,560 Speaker 1: impacts to the victims of crime have been shown horribly wrong. 795 00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:35,480 Speaker 1: A five percent failure to appear rate when people have 796 00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:40,160 Speaker 1: skin in the game, and a fifty percent failure to 797 00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:42,879 Speaker 1: appear rate. These are not me, Pully. This has been 798 00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:46,120 Speaker 1: now admitted into the record, and that's why the judges, 799 00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:50,160 Speaker 1: not the Burnsman, the judges in Harris County are fighting 800 00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:53,760 Speaker 1: this and are in fact fighting for this injunction. They're saying, 801 00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:58,120 Speaker 1: you're making a laughing stock of the entire criminal justice system. 802 00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:02,279 Speaker 1: We got fifty of the that in fact are being 803 00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:07,040 Speaker 1: denied justice, and then you're placing the burden right back 804 00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:10,879 Speaker 1: on the tax paying country to many of these law 805 00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:13,440 Speaker 1: enforcement agencies don't have the resources to do what they 806 00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:19,480 Speaker 1: currently do, much less chase down all of these misdemeanor offenders. 807 00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:21,920 Speaker 1: They're failing to appear. So what do you do? You 808 00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:25,880 Speaker 1: allow these people to roam and commit more clients. It 809 00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:30,799 Speaker 1: is absolutely insanity and the facts you're in well right now, 810 00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:34,200 Speaker 1: I think we all want what is best for the 811 00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:38,400 Speaker 1: system and what is best for innocent victims. Best Chapman, 812 00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:42,640 Speaker 1: reality star President of Professional Bill Agents of the US, 813 00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:48,759 Speaker 1: Jason Ocean's Ashley Willcott, Jennifer Skalski, and Scott Hall. Thank you, 814 00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:50,799 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off